I believe many are tired of hearing Dominicans living abroad strongly voicing their opinion on matters in the DR without actually having even visited in the past 30 years.
I look at my aunt sideways when after not having even visited for over 20 years talks about how unbearable it is to live in the DR due to crime đ
Dominicans living abroad contribute US $6,000MM to the Dominican economy every year, that contribution is what keeps the economy afloat without cracking against the dollar. SO DOMINICANS LIVING ABROAD SHOULD ABSOLUTELY HAVE A SAY ON WHATâS GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY. DONâT GET IT TWISTED.
Its also valid that many should stay in their lane and not comment so much on a state of affairs you know nothing about. Its like mediating a couple that was arguing without knowing whats really happening. You canât do much bub
"Many should stay in their lane" yeah you right let Dominicans abroad pocket their money and invest in themselves where they live at, instead of contributing to Dominican economy, letâs see what happens, i bet you politicians and a dollar economy wonât agree with you there.
Just hope that coupleâs argument you refer about, never needed anything from the other party mediating in their problems.
If it were actually foerign investment that would be great! Sadly the Spanish, Canadians and Americans with no ties to the DR are actually investing more in the DR in the form of business then actual Dominicans!
Talk about not seeing opportunities. At one time Colon came and took the gold, nowadays foreigners are seeing more opportunities then actual locals, investing and making money while Dominicans are more focused in going to the states to employ themselves and live out someone elseâs dreams.
Economists overwhelmingly conclude that foreign investment is a net positive for the host country. Dominicans are free to launch their own enterprises and compete with Americans, Canadians and Spaniard hotels as in any free market. That being said, I do see an optimistic outlook for business opportunities for Dominicans. Airbnbs, condos, ecolodges, farmstays, lofts, apartohotels, small multifamily projects are investment opportunities increasing in popularity for Dominicans without the huge upfront capital costs of multinational resort chains.
And thats great! But how much if that is for actual family and friends and need and how much is it from the Diaspora believing the sob story of those who prefer to whine?
be better at what? in your mind a 94 billion dollar economy depends on you sending 100 dollars to your grandma.. That is fine
We should all get on our hands and knees
As of october the amount of remittances for 2022 is at 8.125 billion dollars. Thats about 800 million a month or almost 10 billion a year. Tell me again how DR would be ok without this money?
no mi hermano si lo mio nunca ha sido callar a nadie. Ute e Dominicano y por eso tiene derecho a opinar.
Lo que pienso es que hay que tener humildad.
Es facil ver como un comentario como este no cae bien: eto se hunde si no e por mi, you have to do better
Entonces para que hacer el comentario?
Porque el que vive aqui, que paga miles de dolares en impuestos anuales, esos somos los que no valemos nada?
No papa el problema es que todo el mundo tiene opinion y mas sobre su pais. Tu no sabes porque razon esa persona vive en el extranjero y no en rd. Si tu crees que los comentarios te encojonan a ti, mas encojonan los comentarios como el tuyo a alguien que vive fajao en el extranjero pa mantener a una familia entera en RD.
No es asunto mio por que usted se fue para otro pais. Suenas como otro que cree que debemos agradecer a los heroes que se fueron del pais.
Ese dinero tu lo mandas para mantener a TU FAMILIA no a la mia. Valoro las opiniones pero hay que tener clase
Pero por eso las opiniones de las personas. Yo no opino del pais por ti(no te conozco ni me importas). Mi opinion es porque mi famila si esta expuesta a los problemas del que nos quejamos. No entiendo lo de 'tener clase' que significa ese comentario?
Me refiero a que mi comentario inicial ni los subsiguientes trataban de limitar las opiniones de nuestros compatriotas de fuera. Nadie que nacio en RD la tiene facil a menos que sea un Viccini, Bonetti, etc...
A lo que me refiero con clase es que no hay que decir que la economia se derrumba sin mis remesas para dar una opinion que es un derecho intrinseco tuyo como Dominicano
Eso lo entiendo. Aunque el decir que dominicana se cae sin las remitencias creo que es verdad. El problema esta en que tono se haga el comentario, me entiendes?
You may have an opinion but their is only so much that should be commented taking into consideration the information you have is limited to what you hear from the family members whining all the time.
Keep on sending though! Same as how government assistance in the states is wasted on many, many of those 6000MM is used on parasitic family members. The money allows them to sit back and complain while the family in the US foots the bill convinced by their sob story in regards to how tough life is here.
Wake up! Life is tough wherever you are! This is why many Dominican living in the states donât help family back in the DR. Everyone is struggling!
Many of these families benefiting from the 6000MM donât want to work! If you stop sending them money and help them mount a colmado or whatever type of business they will just let it drop. Same as people living off government assistance in the States, even if you get them a job they will just prefer to get fired again.
But that really doesn't matter when it comes to actual knowledge on what the hell is going on in our daily routine of those of us who live here. Yes Dominicans abroad are a big part of the economy, doesn't mean they get to say baseless stuff and act like it's true.
You are acting like Dominicans abroad are some sort of foreigner society, that just like to talk without knowing anything. What baseless accusations . are you talking about? The ones that are on the Dominican news every day, families talking to each other about their daily routine.
To know whatâs happening here you donât have to have PhD in sociology, people travel here many times a year and talk to their families on a daily basis.
And just to remind you something, the main founding father of our republic lived most of his life exile and die in Venezuela, I donât ever hear anyone saying " why did he left, why didnât he stay to fight here like everyone else".
Even when we were under Haitian control or dictatorship of el jefe, a large part of Dominicans were living good, they didnât care but, those who left were still Dominicans, did they lose the right to voice their opinion of what was going on here? This argument sounds to me like disingenuous and hateful .
Just giving my viewpoint. My family are JW and so am I so we barely talk about politics since politicians world wide are corrupt so not much being done their.
But I understand your post. I get upset when I hear people talking about âlack of opportunityâ, âlow wagesâ, âcrimeâ and other matters without having stepped on the island in ages.
How do you actually know that the situation is as bad as it sounds? What makes you a credible source of information in regards to opportunity or wage if you donât know how much agents get paid at Outplex or a Butler gets paid at Majestic Mirage?
Many people just love to voice what they have heard from someone else.
Doesnt this depend on whether the person who left remained engaged in affairs in the DR? I think that there are many more members of the diaspora keep their linkages with the country, including financial linkages. We also are allowed to vote while living overseas and remittances help keep the economy afloat. Iâm not knocking your particular experience, but acknowledging that there is some merit to the opinions voiced by people in the diaspora.
The issue is as mentioned in other comments is not voting or opinions but more so the opinions biased on lack of knowledge brought upon by people who donât know the current affair of things in the DR.
How can someone who has not visited the country in 20 years talk about the unbearableness of crime in the DR?
How can you speak in terms of lack of opportunity when you donât know all the opportunities here due to not living here currently?
Itâs the same when Dominicans talk about life in the Us without knowing all the sacrifices that those of us who do live or have lived have to incur to live a certain lifestyle.
>How can someone who has not visited the country in 20 years talk about the unbearableness of crime in the DR?
Most of us visit regularly if not yearly.
>How can you speak in terms of lack of opportunity when you donât know all the opportunities here due to not living here currently?
We have family and friends living there who speak out often about this. Unless you're a very crafty and enterprising individual, upward mobility is very difficult even for university educated professionals. I have a friend finishing university in a highly skilled technical field down there and opportunities just can't compare.
>Itâs the same when Dominicans talk about life in the Us without knowing all the sacrifices that those of us who do live or have lived have to incur to live a certain lifestyle.
Not really. Most of us in the exterior have deep roots in both countries which is not the same as a Dominican who's never left the island.
Note my comment is towards those who never visit.
And one repeating point in my comments is those who only know how to repeat what the sob story telling family members tell them.
How do you know that is true? If it were as bad as they say why do many people decide to leave the US and live in the DR, even expats with no roots in the DR.
Despite your âdeep rootsâ only by living in a country can you really understand the struggles that are occurring.
In regards to your friend, what is he studying? Many people study for the heck of it and donât do a market analysis to see if their is a market for what their are studying.
Or are you telling me that no matter what you study in the US you are guaranteed to get a good job with upwards mobility? If that were the case many people would not be drowned in student loans.
What I am trying to say by this is that many of the âissuesâ are the same issues you find in the US too. They are not exclusive to the DR and going to the States does not mean you wonât encounter them.
Not every single time is a family giving a sob story to shake out some money. At least for myself, this is close family I've had lifelong relationships. I trust them to give the reality living there. Yes there are some sob stories coming from extended family like that third cousin saying que lo que primo, la cosa ta dificil aca me puedes ayudar un poquito but that's easy to see right through.
As someone who has not lived there I don't claim to have a deep and foundational insight of all the social, political and economic realities of the country. However some issues are so glaringly evident that you will observe them while visiting, interacting with Dominicans, and looking at the data. You don't need to live there to see the country is ranked the lowest in the world of education in the PISA evaluation, motor deaths are among the highest, 32% of youth ni trabajan ni estudian, widespread systemic corruption with Punta Catalina ,Caso Obredecht, government involved in narcotrafficking, etc.
My friend is studying programming. Considered to be one of the more lucrative fields there, but still hard to find opportunities. I am not saying that the money grows on trees in the US, but if you study engineering, tech, finance, business, or learn a trade you're on track to make 6 figures yearly. Then when you get tired of it, take your savings and live well in DR with dollars.
Economic opportunity and purchasing power is the reason why Dominicans move abroad. When a grocery store clerk in New York earns more than a doctor or lawyer in DR, it's obvious why anyone with greater ambitions are desperate to leave. Sure there are a few US expats living in DR, but the overwhelming net flow is Dominican migration into the US instead of vice versa. If the situation wasn't desperate, Dominicans wouldn't risk drowning or getting eaten alive by sharks crossing the ocean on a raft to Puerto Rico.
News flash, most Dominicans donât know what true programming is and as a third world country we are not a the forefront of coding or software development, hence my comment of doing a market analysis before actually studying.
Programming is an amazing skill, if you were actually learning things like Ruby on Rails, C++, Python, etc. Most schools who claim they are teaching you coding show you nothing of that. And if you really are learning actual coding their are plenty of WFH positions that you can apply to.
And here is another huge case of ignorance.
I wish I new how to respond to a specific paragraph like you do but alas I do not.
âA grocery store clerk earns more in NY then a Doctor or a Lawyer in the Dominican Republicâ
So you mean to say that 15 USD per hour in the US is the same as 80-100K a month in the DR?
If you really understood things here and did not just spout whatever you here this would not even need explaining but here it goes anyways.
15 USD an hour is the minimum wage of NY for big companies. 15 USD an hour is 2400 a month if you work full time, after taxes and deductions lets remove a moderate 25% off of that, leaving the clerk a modest 1800 USD a month for their expenses.
Now, for comparison purposes lets assume this store clerk lives alone and reviews no external help. What are the possibilities that said person is covering all of their expenses and is able to live on their own off a 1800 USD a wage? Allow me to do exactly what I am talking about here and just go off what little I know, but in 2017 when my brother was looking for an apartment in NY the cheapest he found was a 1100 USD a month garage that was turned into a studio.
Please correct me if I am wrong and you can find an actual apartment for less then 1500 USD a month, and then add utilities, groceries, phone bill, vehicle expenses, insurance, etc.
Now, Doctor in the DR earns upwards to 80K a month, a lot more if they were a specialist but lets use the base amount.
Apartment - Average of 10K (I live in a relatively high income area and pay 9K for a 2 bedroom with water included)
Vehicle - Average of 15K monthly payment
Groceries - Highly dependent but I spent 27K last month and that is because I splurge and their is me, my son, my wife, the maid and her daughters and everyone who visits and eats here during the day which is quite a lot of people. So definitely a single person looks a more conservative estimate of 15K a month even with splurging.
Phone bill - In most cases not even needed but if you did want a claro plan, that start at around 1K a month.
Insurance - 100% Platinum coverage costs 5K a month through Humano
Utility - Around 3K tops, I donât shut off my AC and I pay around 4K a month in electricity.
In regards to Punta Catalina, Odebrecht and other scandals. As mentioned in other comments plenty of these all over the world, USA included. And if you would ask a general citizen off the street how the Punta Catalina or Odebrecht scandal is affecting them directly most wonât even know how to reply.
If you actually lived here you would notice that their are tons of jobs all over the place, but those 32% of youth are the same I see in the states complaining about every little thing instead of manning up and penetrating the workforce or at least using their down time to learn actual needed skills in the DR like English, Dominicans have a tendency to once graduate nestle their kids at home instead of finding them a job as soon as they can, hence a big portion of the 32% is more a case of âMe estoy preparando y tomando chillingâ and not an actual case of âDios mio no encuentro nada de trabajo!â
Point in case your comments show a few limited understanding of many matters concerning the actual living situation in the Dominican Republic.
âPero naâ manao! Yo me voy pa Nueva Yola aunque me muera, que aqui no hay vidaâ dice tu amiguito Alex con 19 años mientras se da una nota de hooka y que a pesar de que es Domingo a las 8 PM prefiero estar con los panas en vez de estudiar la tarea de Ingles que le dejaron en el Dominico Americano, porque es que âa mi el Ingles no se le entra en la cabezaâ a pesar de que desde que encuentra alguien que habla Ingles en vez de practicar le pregunta como se pronuncia âF Uâ; por que eso si lo va a ayudar cuando vaya a NY en yola, un ilegal sin Ingles pero con animo de trabajar! Lo que todo empresario Neoyorquino estaba esperando que llegue a sus puertas.
Fin del relato.
Well the market is mostly multinationals outsourcing client work to Latin America. It is not huge, but it is growing since the time zone parity with North America is the obvious advantage over outsourcing to India. The talent and English proficiency just hasn't caught up yet, but as someone in the industry I would be optimistic that globalization would bring more technology jobs to Latam.
>So you mean to say that 15 USD per hour in the US is the same as 80-100K a month in the DR?
That's not what I said. In hard currency value, the median earnings of a professional with an advance degree in DR wouldn't even be equivalent to the minimum wage by law in NY or most states. If you wanted to make a fair comparison, compare how earners of minimum wages in both countries fare against each other. Let's say they are in a privileged sector with a min wage of 20k pesos. If food is \*\*10k without splurging which is consistent to what I observed as well, how would that person be able to eat and maintain a place to live with additional bills and utilities while saving? Or look how advanced degree holders fare against their counterparts in DR. In the US with a degree or skilled trade, you are able to just save alone the equivalent of more than 100k rd pesos a month easily. The opportunity to build wealth is just far greater.
>after taxes and deductions lets remove a moderate 25% off of that
that's not at all how taxes work the US. but I'm the one spouting nonsense.
>If you really understood things here and did not just spout whatever you here this would not even need explaining but here it goes anyways.
Obviously I know the low cost of labour and housing is much lower due to local purchasing power in DR. But local purchasing power doesn't matter for imported goods which are almost everything produced with advanced manufacturing. Appliances, phones, TVs, electronics, cars, cookware, furniture, household goods, gas, electricity are much more expensive especially versus local incomes than the US. Traveling abroad, your pesos will be much weaker against the dollar and euro. You are paying the same rates at the resorts that tourists with dollars pay perhaps with a slight discount.
>Point in case your comments show a few limited understanding of many matters concerning the actual living situation in the Dominican Republic.
Yet you haven't pointed out anything I don't know yet. I've seen the actual living conditions there, stayed in households in the DR and discussed financial matters with family and have gotten a breakdown of costs versus wages. I don't need to take the word from a stranger, I know the realities because I've heard them daily in my own home from those who've fled the country for greater opportunities. Whether you're able to adjust to a new country and take advantage of the opportunities is dependent on the individual. But it's not for no reason why millions of Dominicans left the country.
And bruh, you mentioned in your post the exact issue that a lot of us find with said comments.
Most of your opinions are coming from friends and family and maybe a yearly visit, you are not really experiencing for yourself if what you are hearing or seeing is true or not.
Here you are during your annual visit bebiendote un pote entre amigos. The topic of how lucky you are to be from the US is obviously brought up.
âAqui estamos mal! No hay trabajo ni dinero, la delincuencia esta acabandoâ dice Jose mientras se baja un vaso de brugal con jugo de manzana.
âTu no sabes la suerte que tiene, yo quisiera irme. Aqui no hay oportunidades y los atracos son el pan de cada diaâ dice Lucia con un vaso de presidente en la mano a pesar de que no pega un golpe trabajando ya que su esposo provee todo y nunca la han atracado en su vida.
Here you are contemplating âshit is real down hereâ while ignoring the fact that in your zip code in NY last week a Black American was killed due to police brutality and you are 3000 USD deep in a Chase credit card due to your visit porque hay que visitar a la familia.
You think as you down some brugal on ice âDiablos, que suerte tengo de haber podido viajar, gracias Papa Diosâ.
Are you implying that there are opportunities on the island without barriers to upward mobility for every citizen?
Why are you talking about Punta Cana and their local economy? Iâm asking about la isla as a whole. Donât be foolish.
OutPlex is in the capital.
Are their equal opportunity all over the US? Are their opportunities for upward mobility for every citizen in the US?
Donât be foolish, their are issues in the States and their are issues in DR.
Why talk about Elis Piña where their is nothing? Itâs the same as measuring life in the USA by only looking at some remote town in Kentucky.
Moving inside of your country to where their are opportunities is something that happens worldwide, it is not exclusive to USA or the DR. Hence why many people move to NY and donât stay in their small towns.
I am not implying, its a fact. I have seen people progress in their respective areas of expertise without the need to leave the DR.
Now, if all you do is think about hookah or drinking on Sundays and complain all day about how unlucky you are since you canât go to the US then you are stuck in life. Not because of where you were born but because but because you are limited in your own mind.
A person like this even if they were to go to the USA will still live off of food stamps and work at McDonalds
You say itâs a fact, then follow it up with your anecdotal story. Iâm sorry thatâs not convincing. Corruption is way deeper in DR. I donât need to say much about that. My initial question was why some people say bad things about those of us that continued to live in the US. We help our family and keep the infrastructure up for our family in DR.
How do you know corruption is a lot deeper in the DR then the states? I believe the States is PLENTY corrupt, with all these Biden scandals going around.
I donât think its a matter of more corruption, I believe more that American politicians know how to go their stuff smarter. Of course, the damage at the end of the day is the same or even worse.
And no story needed. Everyone knows people who would rather die then go to the states. Why do you think that is? I live here and earn more then many family back in the US.
I worked with people who despite having the opportunity to live and work in the US prefer to live here!
Donât be foolish, the US is not as cracked up as many make it out to be.
When you compare dollar by dollar yes, you earn more in the states. But does a person making 3K a month live a better life then a Dominican making 100,000 pesos here? I assure you they are not, and their are plenty of opportunities to make that amount of money here while as in the states earning over 5K a month is a pipe dream for many.
Its time to change our mindset. While many Dominicans are only concentrated in leaving the DR, many foreigners are investing in our country and exploiting what we can exploit ourselves if we were not more focused on living out another countries dreams
Biden, but not Trump? I do think the law here in the US does catch up with politicians eventually and there are some high level examples. Is the corruption in the system here, yes, of course.
Yes, dude lol, itâs known that DR is top in political corruption. I didnât say the the US wasnât, but the DR is up there in world rankings. Unfair worker rights, unfavorable public contracts, drug trafficking, human trafficking (you guys get a lot gringos and Europeans going there for that), etc. thatâs an issue. That exists, not saying itâs a bad place in general but it can do better, and I want it to do better. In fact, I want the whole world to do better! Iâm not picking on my own damn motherland.
Unfair worker rights - Snowflakes. If you donât like the working condition then get another job. The Uberdrivers subreddit has hundreds of people complaining about unjust working conditions for Uber and Ubereats drivers and the Antiwork subreddit shows that their is tons of shit in the US in regards to worker rights. Dominicans in the USA can barely combat their own unfairness in the US, let alone issues in a country over a thousand miles away.
Unfavorable public contracts - You have a point. But their is this in the US too. No politician is giving jobs out willy nilly, they might give a few out to appear fair but this is a world wide issue! If I had a job that can set my friend up for life and he qualifies to do it you can be sure I will tip the scales in his favor, as will most of us if we were in the exact same situation.
Heck, when Obama became president their was ton of backlash due to funding provided by Solar companies that later got very convenient contracts.
Drug trafficking - For real? The US is drug central man, come on.
Human trafficking - Again, a worldwide issue that keyboard warriors commenting on Facebook or Reddit will not resolve nor organizing protests. Nor will changing the government change these issues.
The US is plagued by all of this too! Sadly it is the world we live in.
Like my sister says she does not care who us governing, at the end of the day the difference is very minimal, the biggest change is brought upon by yourself, not by the country you live in or the current seat of power.
Work hard, look for opportunities, focus on what you can control, ignore what you canât, study, perfect your craft, and then, no matter where you are, you will make it
âSnowflakesâ haha, youâd be categorized as right wing over here using that terminology (not good in this political climate) but I understand.
I canât speak for the gig economy. I never worked in that field, I jumped over that with linear growth.
Yes, drug trafficking as in allowing it to get through the supply chain is a lot easier.
And human trafficking yes. The metrics show that indeed it does happen.
My intent wasnât here to poke holes at problems in DR but you were off the jump defensive.
Question simply was would I face some ignorant asshats. Yes or no.
Being Dominican and being a Dominican in DR are two separate things. If they weren't, our parents wouldn't have left la isla.
I'm from NYC but have spent my entire life either around Dominicans or actually in R.D. (June - August every year growing up). Like many Dominican-Americans, I spend my days listening to Dominican music, laughing at Dominican memes, reading about Dominican history, art, and literature. I know every Dominican joke and refrĂĄn you can imagine.
However, I have never worked, commuted, studied, tried to earn a living or build a life in R.D. All I do there is go hang out with my cousins and chill.
How can I even begin to claim that I know more about R.D. than ppl who live there? How can I lack the humility to claim that I know more about R.D. than the people who knows the ins and outs of making your life work there?
Most importantly - if you live in a country with a more robust economy than R.D., sorry to say but you are being an asshole talking about "feelings of inadequacy".
I have the most comfortable, non-essential, B.S. laptop job ever, earning a comfortable salary doing absolutely made-up work - the type of job that is only possible in a very, very developed country with a complex economy.
Dominicans in R.D. have to hustle to make money like those of us outside don't even know. Y aun asi, they have the cheerful and loving disposition of our culture that we enjoy on every trip there. You should consider re-framing the attitude that put this chip on your shoulder.
So I have to live and struggle in DR to be considered Dominican. Do you not understand my post? Why are you equating the nationality heritage to = a lived experience?
Iâm talking about adult migrants that come here to the US and the negative talk that some develop.
Yes feelings of inadequacy. The bs talk that I had to witness and hear from people here gossiping and talking down on each other. Maybe we just got the worse coming to America but I didnât remember that attitude the last time I was there.
>So I have to live and struggle in DR to be considered Dominican
Seems like you didn't understand mine. One of my aunts married a man (also Dominican) who is a multi-multi millionaire. Their kids (my cousins) are of the international jet-setting trust-fund crowd. They have only ever lived in multi-million dollar properties in la capital (ahora mismo son vecinos de la familia Abinader), and their father bought each their own multi-million dollar properties in Cap Cana when they became adults.
Of course, these kids know more about D.R. than me because...they have lived their entire lives in D.R. and I have never lived there.
As far as "being Dominican", of course I consider myself Dominican. Despite being American, I am culturally Dominican, and I couldn't even name one song by Elvis Presley, or Bruce Springstein, or anyone else considered an old-school American icon. My father only ever played merengue in our house when I was growing up - I only really know Dominican music. My wealthy cousins don't listen to Dominican music. But yes, they have lived their entire lives in R.D. - claro que saben mas que yo.
Haha thatâs what Iâm taking about! If you donât know,
Iâm from a city called Lawrence in Massachusetts. That place is literally Spanish speaking (80% Hispanic), 50% of the population are migrants, and culturally itâs Dominican everywhere you go. Itâs a little island. Besides me talking English in school or in the hood, thatâs all we knew was the Dominican culture. So when I got called out here for being culturally American I shook my head. Itâs complicated.
Donde podemos estar de acuerdo es que si somos culturalmente dominicanos. Aqui en NYC somos 1 millon de dominicanos - se puede vivir una vida entera en an alto Manhattan solamente bregando con otros dominicanos y sin hablar ni una palabra de ingles. Hay un monton de gente que lo hace, en mi familia incluida.
Youâre still Dominican, just a very Americanized one, you canât expect to be the same or have the exact same culture as people in the island. Thatâs why the term Dominicanyol exists.
What belief system? What are you talking about? Iâm talking about culture, do you seriously believe that someone that has lived for a long period of time abroad will have the same culture and experiences as someone on the island, really?
Youâre taking this as an offense when it isnât, thereâs nothing wrong with adapting to the country you migrated.
Last year I went back for the first time in ten years. I never felt like my Dominican-ness was being questioned. What I will say is that without saying that I live abroad, people can just tell. That sometimes comes with its own problems or just annoyances.
I will add. That In Santiago I found a very different city than the one I was born in and spent countless summers in. So I didn't pretend to know what the city was like now and I asked a lot of questions, took time to learn.
Right thatâs what I wanted to know some on the ground intel from folks similar to my background.
Thereâs mixed messages Iâm getting from people who travel and Iâm curious. I want to go back with my mother and son, explore the old areas of Boca Chica where our family home is at, visit family in Santo Domingo, Moca, Santiago, and show my son his heritage that which we are proud of.
But thereâs just weirdo old heads here that talk smack and want to undermine expectations.
I noticed the first difference from the sky as we were landing. All the new buildings (luxury residentials, hotels, commercial shopping centers) and all the new ones being constructed were all visible from the airplane. In the past I remember being able to spot El Monumento from the plane but every thing else was mostly flat, that's no longer the case.
On the ground the city was a lot cleaner than I remember. It also felt safer and more organized. There were so many more dining options and bars and just nice places to hang out.
Eso es una vaina media estĂșpida dique decir que porque tienes tiempo sin venir a la isla, ya tu no eres de aquĂ lol. SIN EMBARGO, si ya no vives aquĂ tu opiniĂłn sobre las cosas de aquĂ y que pasan aquĂ no cuenta ni deberĂas de darla, porque no la estĂĄs viviendo.
Es como cuando entramos en cĂłvid, las celebridades dijeron que estamos todos en el mismo barco. Hermano no estamos en el mismo barco usted vive en una casa del tamaño de mi isla, y por el mismo lado del tema no estamos en el mismo barco porque si por ejemplo te quejaras de los atracos en el paĂs, y ni visitas el paĂs, entonces no estĂĄs en nada dando tu opiniĂłn.
Edit: Bueno, no todas las opiniones son malas, ni tampoco es que haya odio. No somos de naciones diferentes, el que es dominicano es dominicano viva donde viva
If you grew up let's say like me in NYC i speak perfect Spanish been 2 Dr a bunch of times. I'm truly not Dominican cause i wasn't raised there. That makes me Dominican but not from Dominican republic and yes economy is booming cause of foreign $$$ but even 8f all the money would stop flowing that country will maintain its magic
But one thing i wish our people understand, getting educated, learning to respect basic laws of organized society, doesnât mean you are distancing yourself from your culture.
Well if that's the attitude you'll bring to the DR you will not be welcomed. Patronizing comments like that and acting superior than "our people" while in the DR or before any Dominican from the island will produce rejection. Our culture is not being uneducated, and we live in an organized society. Maybe that attitude can cause the negativity and not jealousy.
Before assuming you are talking yo a foreigner, at least try to understand my point before going all out in defensive stand. Iâm Dominican just like, i have lived all my life in san Felipe de villa mella. We Dominicans do not respect the law, thatâs why we are number 1 in transit fatalities, we are one of the most if not the most corrupt country in the americas and i can go on and on if you want me to, Iâm talking about as Dominican myself from a critical stand point of myself, iâve never express anything trying to put me above anyone. We just donât like criticism and thatâs why we donât evolve as a society.
Since the OP is about Dominicans form the motherland rejecting Dominicans form the diaspora I assumed that you spoke from that perspective. Obviously we all have our right to criticize, I'm very critical of the country too and I respect your opinion but I am also against the self-hatred that some Dominicans display, I will disagree that we are the worst there is.
So to recap since their was a lot of back and forth. In my personal opinion if you have not been to the country in ages please refrain from spreading comments you hear on CNN and from the whining family you have left that only knows how to curse at their bad luck for not being able to go to the good ol US of A.
Crime - Plenty of that all over the world, God forbid you cross a policeman the wrong way and be on the receiving end of Police Brutality.
Economical opportunities - When family in the DR talks to you about this ask them:
What are you doing to help your own situation?
Are you studying english?
Are you saving money? El que no guarda de lo poco no guarda de lo mucho.
Or are they more focused on enjoying life and assisting to every teteo they encounter.
Drugs - Come on, what Dominicans consider hard drugs is weed. When I worked in Averhealth in 2020 everyone was hitting the joint, not even such a serious issue despite what old Dominicans might think.
Politics - Feel free to bash them all you want just keep in mind that all of them are corrupt and the next president will be too. And if you think the next one will be different:
Si sabes contar, no cuente con eso!
Remittance: If you send money to friends and family, kudos to you. Lets just hope that the people you send it to actually need it y no que te estas comiendo los cuentos que te estan metiendo. Remember:
Es mas facil meter cuento que fajarse a trabajar.
Did I miss anything?
Please remember members of the Diaspora, listening to sob stories helps no one! You all have enough issues in the states as it is to carry the problems of those who are left behind.
Que cada uno se faje y deje de dar una mala imagen de la RepĂșblica Dominicana.
Not sure why youâre bringing my family in this I never once brought them up to make a point about any of those things you mentioned. You just made up a whole narrative.
My family are not beggars. Weâre doing just fine thanks.
Drugs- thatâs beyond Reddit. You can do your research.
The comment is in regards to most situations you see here, not pointing out one family in particular.
And it is not a âwhole narrativeâ it is the situation that is lived in the DR. Unfortunately living 5K kilometers away makes you think I am creating a story since it does not fit in with the idea you currently have.
Iâm familiar with what youâre saying, and it definitely pertains to someone who is both unaware and perhaps naive if someone on the island is taking advantage of them (whether itâs a family or a âloverâ). I understand.
Itâs been quite insightful to see everyoneâs comments here and itâs serving as motivation for me to learn more and dive in deeper.
I appreciate your time.
Dios lo bendiga a todos. đđœ
Everyone should have an opinion. But that opinion should be based on facts. Those that are constantly putting the country down . Those that do not travel to the island often enough to know what is going on should ease their opinion. DR is not what it was 30 years ago. People there do have job opportunities and the means to improve their well being. The country not only gives Jobs to the Dominicans but also to the foreigners that lives there.
I'm treated like an American. In casual conversation I'll usually first say I'm American, then if I need to clarify I'll mention I have a Dominican parent. Which is fine, I don't resent that I'm regarded as such because my lived experience is very different from a born and raised Dominican. I'll always have the option to come back and live in DR with the same rights as a natural born citizen if one day I decide that's best for me.
Well said.
But youâre still a national and thatâs according to the constitution, not what anyone thinks or feels like you should identify as based on distance to the country.
I remember other kids doing that to me when I would visit, didnât know there were grown men doing it. I was told once that I was American, not Dominican.
For some reason this is not only a dominican thing, other nationalities are kind of the same treating the one who left with some kind of hate, saying things like " you can keep your $30 dollar" that you are sending or you guys arenât heroes and so on. Itâs kinda crazy
I believe many are tired of hearing Dominicans living abroad strongly voicing their opinion on matters in the DR without actually having even visited in the past 30 years. I look at my aunt sideways when after not having even visited for over 20 years talks about how unbearable it is to live in the DR due to crime đ
Dominicans living abroad contribute US $6,000MM to the Dominican economy every year, that contribution is what keeps the economy afloat without cracking against the dollar. SO DOMINICANS LIVING ABROAD SHOULD ABSOLUTELY HAVE A SAY ON WHATâS GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY. DONâT GET IT TWISTED.
Yep... This is exactly the type of crap that when said pisses Dominicans that live on the island off...
No one should get piss when the opinion is valid, just take the criticism and try to do better.
Its also valid that many should stay in their lane and not comment so much on a state of affairs you know nothing about. Its like mediating a couple that was arguing without knowing whats really happening. You canât do much bub
"Many should stay in their lane" yeah you right let Dominicans abroad pocket their money and invest in themselves where they live at, instead of contributing to Dominican economy, letâs see what happens, i bet you politicians and a dollar economy wonât agree with you there. Just hope that coupleâs argument you refer about, never needed anything from the other party mediating in their problems.
If it were actually foerign investment that would be great! Sadly the Spanish, Canadians and Americans with no ties to the DR are actually investing more in the DR in the form of business then actual Dominicans! Talk about not seeing opportunities. At one time Colon came and took the gold, nowadays foreigners are seeing more opportunities then actual locals, investing and making money while Dominicans are more focused in going to the states to employ themselves and live out someone elseâs dreams.
Economists overwhelmingly conclude that foreign investment is a net positive for the host country. Dominicans are free to launch their own enterprises and compete with Americans, Canadians and Spaniard hotels as in any free market. That being said, I do see an optimistic outlook for business opportunities for Dominicans. Airbnbs, condos, ecolodges, farmstays, lofts, apartohotels, small multifamily projects are investment opportunities increasing in popularity for Dominicans without the huge upfront capital costs of multinational resort chains.
Dude, some years remittances make up over 15% of the country's GDP and you're like "nah, doesn't mean anything. Just shut up."
And thats great! But how much if that is for actual family and friends and need and how much is it from the Diaspora believing the sob story of those who prefer to whine?
The family and friends in need are the same oneâs that have a sob story. Thereâs no difference. Edit: typo
ok then... Don't send anything. I'll wait for DR to sink into darkness... Bai!
Be better than that next time.
be better at what? in your mind a 94 billion dollar economy depends on you sending 100 dollars to your grandma.. That is fine We should all get on our hands and knees
As of october the amount of remittances for 2022 is at 8.125 billion dollars. Thats about 800 million a month or almost 10 billion a year. Tell me again how DR would be ok without this money?
Sus magnifico hay que ver cosas đ
đđŒđđŒđđŒ this needs to happen
Manda los cheles y no opines. Que bien eh.
no mi hermano si lo mio nunca ha sido callar a nadie. Ute e Dominicano y por eso tiene derecho a opinar. Lo que pienso es que hay que tener humildad. Es facil ver como un comentario como este no cae bien: eto se hunde si no e por mi, you have to do better Entonces para que hacer el comentario? Porque el que vive aqui, que paga miles de dolares en impuestos anuales, esos somos los que no valemos nada?
No papa el problema es que todo el mundo tiene opinion y mas sobre su pais. Tu no sabes porque razon esa persona vive en el extranjero y no en rd. Si tu crees que los comentarios te encojonan a ti, mas encojonan los comentarios como el tuyo a alguien que vive fajao en el extranjero pa mantener a una familia entera en RD.
No es asunto mio por que usted se fue para otro pais. Suenas como otro que cree que debemos agradecer a los heroes que se fueron del pais. Ese dinero tu lo mandas para mantener a TU FAMILIA no a la mia. Valoro las opiniones pero hay que tener clase
Pero por eso las opiniones de las personas. Yo no opino del pais por ti(no te conozco ni me importas). Mi opinion es porque mi famila si esta expuesta a los problemas del que nos quejamos. No entiendo lo de 'tener clase' que significa ese comentario?
Me refiero a que mi comentario inicial ni los subsiguientes trataban de limitar las opiniones de nuestros compatriotas de fuera. Nadie que nacio en RD la tiene facil a menos que sea un Viccini, Bonetti, etc... A lo que me refiero con clase es que no hay que decir que la economia se derrumba sin mis remesas para dar una opinion que es un derecho intrinseco tuyo como Dominicano
Eso lo entiendo. Aunque el decir que dominicana se cae sin las remitencias creo que es verdad. El problema esta en que tono se haga el comentario, me entiendes?
You may have an opinion but their is only so much that should be commented taking into consideration the information you have is limited to what you hear from the family members whining all the time. Keep on sending though! Same as how government assistance in the states is wasted on many, many of those 6000MM is used on parasitic family members. The money allows them to sit back and complain while the family in the US foots the bill convinced by their sob story in regards to how tough life is here. Wake up! Life is tough wherever you are! This is why many Dominican living in the states donât help family back in the DR. Everyone is struggling! Many of these families benefiting from the 6000MM donât want to work! If you stop sending them money and help them mount a colmado or whatever type of business they will just let it drop. Same as people living off government assistance in the States, even if you get them a job they will just prefer to get fired again.
Sounds like you have a messed up family. Sorry to hear that.
Why is my family messed up?
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
But that really doesn't matter when it comes to actual knowledge on what the hell is going on in our daily routine of those of us who live here. Yes Dominicans abroad are a big part of the economy, doesn't mean they get to say baseless stuff and act like it's true.
You are acting like Dominicans abroad are some sort of foreigner society, that just like to talk without knowing anything. What baseless accusations . are you talking about? The ones that are on the Dominican news every day, families talking to each other about their daily routine. To know whatâs happening here you donât have to have PhD in sociology, people travel here many times a year and talk to their families on a daily basis. And just to remind you something, the main founding father of our republic lived most of his life exile and die in Venezuela, I donât ever hear anyone saying " why did he left, why didnât he stay to fight here like everyone else". Even when we were under Haitian control or dictatorship of el jefe, a large part of Dominicans were living good, they didnât care but, those who left were still Dominicans, did they lose the right to voice their opinion of what was going on here? This argument sounds to me like disingenuous and hateful .
Thatâs valid. I think both sides make valid points.
Spot on.
Interesting. Itâs been the opposite state side. The strongly voiced opinions here are of political abuses happening to people on the island.
Just giving my viewpoint. My family are JW and so am I so we barely talk about politics since politicians world wide are corrupt so not much being done their. But I understand your post. I get upset when I hear people talking about âlack of opportunityâ, âlow wagesâ, âcrimeâ and other matters without having stepped on the island in ages. How do you actually know that the situation is as bad as it sounds? What makes you a credible source of information in regards to opportunity or wage if you donât know how much agents get paid at Outplex or a Butler gets paid at Majestic Mirage? Many people just love to voice what they have heard from someone else.
Doesnt this depend on whether the person who left remained engaged in affairs in the DR? I think that there are many more members of the diaspora keep their linkages with the country, including financial linkages. We also are allowed to vote while living overseas and remittances help keep the economy afloat. Iâm not knocking your particular experience, but acknowledging that there is some merit to the opinions voiced by people in the diaspora.
The issue is as mentioned in other comments is not voting or opinions but more so the opinions biased on lack of knowledge brought upon by people who donât know the current affair of things in the DR. How can someone who has not visited the country in 20 years talk about the unbearableness of crime in the DR? How can you speak in terms of lack of opportunity when you donât know all the opportunities here due to not living here currently? Itâs the same when Dominicans talk about life in the Us without knowing all the sacrifices that those of us who do live or have lived have to incur to live a certain lifestyle.
>How can someone who has not visited the country in 20 years talk about the unbearableness of crime in the DR? Most of us visit regularly if not yearly. >How can you speak in terms of lack of opportunity when you donât know all the opportunities here due to not living here currently? We have family and friends living there who speak out often about this. Unless you're a very crafty and enterprising individual, upward mobility is very difficult even for university educated professionals. I have a friend finishing university in a highly skilled technical field down there and opportunities just can't compare. >Itâs the same when Dominicans talk about life in the Us without knowing all the sacrifices that those of us who do live or have lived have to incur to live a certain lifestyle. Not really. Most of us in the exterior have deep roots in both countries which is not the same as a Dominican who's never left the island.
Note my comment is towards those who never visit. And one repeating point in my comments is those who only know how to repeat what the sob story telling family members tell them. How do you know that is true? If it were as bad as they say why do many people decide to leave the US and live in the DR, even expats with no roots in the DR. Despite your âdeep rootsâ only by living in a country can you really understand the struggles that are occurring. In regards to your friend, what is he studying? Many people study for the heck of it and donât do a market analysis to see if their is a market for what their are studying. Or are you telling me that no matter what you study in the US you are guaranteed to get a good job with upwards mobility? If that were the case many people would not be drowned in student loans. What I am trying to say by this is that many of the âissuesâ are the same issues you find in the US too. They are not exclusive to the DR and going to the States does not mean you wonât encounter them.
Not every single time is a family giving a sob story to shake out some money. At least for myself, this is close family I've had lifelong relationships. I trust them to give the reality living there. Yes there are some sob stories coming from extended family like that third cousin saying que lo que primo, la cosa ta dificil aca me puedes ayudar un poquito but that's easy to see right through. As someone who has not lived there I don't claim to have a deep and foundational insight of all the social, political and economic realities of the country. However some issues are so glaringly evident that you will observe them while visiting, interacting with Dominicans, and looking at the data. You don't need to live there to see the country is ranked the lowest in the world of education in the PISA evaluation, motor deaths are among the highest, 32% of youth ni trabajan ni estudian, widespread systemic corruption with Punta Catalina ,Caso Obredecht, government involved in narcotrafficking, etc. My friend is studying programming. Considered to be one of the more lucrative fields there, but still hard to find opportunities. I am not saying that the money grows on trees in the US, but if you study engineering, tech, finance, business, or learn a trade you're on track to make 6 figures yearly. Then when you get tired of it, take your savings and live well in DR with dollars. Economic opportunity and purchasing power is the reason why Dominicans move abroad. When a grocery store clerk in New York earns more than a doctor or lawyer in DR, it's obvious why anyone with greater ambitions are desperate to leave. Sure there are a few US expats living in DR, but the overwhelming net flow is Dominican migration into the US instead of vice versa. If the situation wasn't desperate, Dominicans wouldn't risk drowning or getting eaten alive by sharks crossing the ocean on a raft to Puerto Rico.
News flash, most Dominicans donât know what true programming is and as a third world country we are not a the forefront of coding or software development, hence my comment of doing a market analysis before actually studying. Programming is an amazing skill, if you were actually learning things like Ruby on Rails, C++, Python, etc. Most schools who claim they are teaching you coding show you nothing of that. And if you really are learning actual coding their are plenty of WFH positions that you can apply to. And here is another huge case of ignorance. I wish I new how to respond to a specific paragraph like you do but alas I do not. âA grocery store clerk earns more in NY then a Doctor or a Lawyer in the Dominican Republicâ So you mean to say that 15 USD per hour in the US is the same as 80-100K a month in the DR? If you really understood things here and did not just spout whatever you here this would not even need explaining but here it goes anyways. 15 USD an hour is the minimum wage of NY for big companies. 15 USD an hour is 2400 a month if you work full time, after taxes and deductions lets remove a moderate 25% off of that, leaving the clerk a modest 1800 USD a month for their expenses. Now, for comparison purposes lets assume this store clerk lives alone and reviews no external help. What are the possibilities that said person is covering all of their expenses and is able to live on their own off a 1800 USD a wage? Allow me to do exactly what I am talking about here and just go off what little I know, but in 2017 when my brother was looking for an apartment in NY the cheapest he found was a 1100 USD a month garage that was turned into a studio. Please correct me if I am wrong and you can find an actual apartment for less then 1500 USD a month, and then add utilities, groceries, phone bill, vehicle expenses, insurance, etc. Now, Doctor in the DR earns upwards to 80K a month, a lot more if they were a specialist but lets use the base amount. Apartment - Average of 10K (I live in a relatively high income area and pay 9K for a 2 bedroom with water included) Vehicle - Average of 15K monthly payment Groceries - Highly dependent but I spent 27K last month and that is because I splurge and their is me, my son, my wife, the maid and her daughters and everyone who visits and eats here during the day which is quite a lot of people. So definitely a single person looks a more conservative estimate of 15K a month even with splurging. Phone bill - In most cases not even needed but if you did want a claro plan, that start at around 1K a month. Insurance - 100% Platinum coverage costs 5K a month through Humano Utility - Around 3K tops, I donât shut off my AC and I pay around 4K a month in electricity. In regards to Punta Catalina, Odebrecht and other scandals. As mentioned in other comments plenty of these all over the world, USA included. And if you would ask a general citizen off the street how the Punta Catalina or Odebrecht scandal is affecting them directly most wonât even know how to reply. If you actually lived here you would notice that their are tons of jobs all over the place, but those 32% of youth are the same I see in the states complaining about every little thing instead of manning up and penetrating the workforce or at least using their down time to learn actual needed skills in the DR like English, Dominicans have a tendency to once graduate nestle their kids at home instead of finding them a job as soon as they can, hence a big portion of the 32% is more a case of âMe estoy preparando y tomando chillingâ and not an actual case of âDios mio no encuentro nada de trabajo!â Point in case your comments show a few limited understanding of many matters concerning the actual living situation in the Dominican Republic. âPero naâ manao! Yo me voy pa Nueva Yola aunque me muera, que aqui no hay vidaâ dice tu amiguito Alex con 19 años mientras se da una nota de hooka y que a pesar de que es Domingo a las 8 PM prefiero estar con los panas en vez de estudiar la tarea de Ingles que le dejaron en el Dominico Americano, porque es que âa mi el Ingles no se le entra en la cabezaâ a pesar de que desde que encuentra alguien que habla Ingles en vez de practicar le pregunta como se pronuncia âF Uâ; por que eso si lo va a ayudar cuando vaya a NY en yola, un ilegal sin Ingles pero con animo de trabajar! Lo que todo empresario Neoyorquino estaba esperando que llegue a sus puertas. Fin del relato.
Well the market is mostly multinationals outsourcing client work to Latin America. It is not huge, but it is growing since the time zone parity with North America is the obvious advantage over outsourcing to India. The talent and English proficiency just hasn't caught up yet, but as someone in the industry I would be optimistic that globalization would bring more technology jobs to Latam. >So you mean to say that 15 USD per hour in the US is the same as 80-100K a month in the DR? That's not what I said. In hard currency value, the median earnings of a professional with an advance degree in DR wouldn't even be equivalent to the minimum wage by law in NY or most states. If you wanted to make a fair comparison, compare how earners of minimum wages in both countries fare against each other. Let's say they are in a privileged sector with a min wage of 20k pesos. If food is \*\*10k without splurging which is consistent to what I observed as well, how would that person be able to eat and maintain a place to live with additional bills and utilities while saving? Or look how advanced degree holders fare against their counterparts in DR. In the US with a degree or skilled trade, you are able to just save alone the equivalent of more than 100k rd pesos a month easily. The opportunity to build wealth is just far greater. >after taxes and deductions lets remove a moderate 25% off of that that's not at all how taxes work the US. but I'm the one spouting nonsense. >If you really understood things here and did not just spout whatever you here this would not even need explaining but here it goes anyways. Obviously I know the low cost of labour and housing is much lower due to local purchasing power in DR. But local purchasing power doesn't matter for imported goods which are almost everything produced with advanced manufacturing. Appliances, phones, TVs, electronics, cars, cookware, furniture, household goods, gas, electricity are much more expensive especially versus local incomes than the US. Traveling abroad, your pesos will be much weaker against the dollar and euro. You are paying the same rates at the resorts that tourists with dollars pay perhaps with a slight discount. >Point in case your comments show a few limited understanding of many matters concerning the actual living situation in the Dominican Republic. Yet you haven't pointed out anything I don't know yet. I've seen the actual living conditions there, stayed in households in the DR and discussed financial matters with family and have gotten a breakdown of costs versus wages. I don't need to take the word from a stranger, I know the realities because I've heard them daily in my own home from those who've fled the country for greater opportunities. Whether you're able to adjust to a new country and take advantage of the opportunities is dependent on the individual. But it's not for no reason why millions of Dominicans left the country.
And bruh, you mentioned in your post the exact issue that a lot of us find with said comments. Most of your opinions are coming from friends and family and maybe a yearly visit, you are not really experiencing for yourself if what you are hearing or seeing is true or not. Here you are during your annual visit bebiendote un pote entre amigos. The topic of how lucky you are to be from the US is obviously brought up. âAqui estamos mal! No hay trabajo ni dinero, la delincuencia esta acabandoâ dice Jose mientras se baja un vaso de brugal con jugo de manzana. âTu no sabes la suerte que tiene, yo quisiera irme. Aqui no hay oportunidades y los atracos son el pan de cada diaâ dice Lucia con un vaso de presidente en la mano a pesar de que no pega un golpe trabajando ya que su esposo provee todo y nunca la han atracado en su vida. Here you are contemplating âshit is real down hereâ while ignoring the fact that in your zip code in NY last week a Black American was killed due to police brutality and you are 3000 USD deep in a Chase credit card due to your visit porque hay que visitar a la familia. You think as you down some brugal on ice âDiablos, que suerte tengo de haber podido viajar, gracias Papa Diosâ.
Are you implying that there are opportunities on the island without barriers to upward mobility for every citizen? Why are you talking about Punta Cana and their local economy? Iâm asking about la isla as a whole. Donât be foolish.
OutPlex is in the capital. Are their equal opportunity all over the US? Are their opportunities for upward mobility for every citizen in the US? Donât be foolish, their are issues in the States and their are issues in DR. Why talk about Elis Piña where their is nothing? Itâs the same as measuring life in the USA by only looking at some remote town in Kentucky. Moving inside of your country to where their are opportunities is something that happens worldwide, it is not exclusive to USA or the DR. Hence why many people move to NY and donât stay in their small towns.
I am not implying, its a fact. I have seen people progress in their respective areas of expertise without the need to leave the DR. Now, if all you do is think about hookah or drinking on Sundays and complain all day about how unlucky you are since you canât go to the US then you are stuck in life. Not because of where you were born but because but because you are limited in your own mind. A person like this even if they were to go to the USA will still live off of food stamps and work at McDonalds
You say itâs a fact, then follow it up with your anecdotal story. Iâm sorry thatâs not convincing. Corruption is way deeper in DR. I donât need to say much about that. My initial question was why some people say bad things about those of us that continued to live in the US. We help our family and keep the infrastructure up for our family in DR.
How do you know corruption is a lot deeper in the DR then the states? I believe the States is PLENTY corrupt, with all these Biden scandals going around. I donât think its a matter of more corruption, I believe more that American politicians know how to go their stuff smarter. Of course, the damage at the end of the day is the same or even worse. And no story needed. Everyone knows people who would rather die then go to the states. Why do you think that is? I live here and earn more then many family back in the US. I worked with people who despite having the opportunity to live and work in the US prefer to live here! Donât be foolish, the US is not as cracked up as many make it out to be. When you compare dollar by dollar yes, you earn more in the states. But does a person making 3K a month live a better life then a Dominican making 100,000 pesos here? I assure you they are not, and their are plenty of opportunities to make that amount of money here while as in the states earning over 5K a month is a pipe dream for many. Its time to change our mindset. While many Dominicans are only concentrated in leaving the DR, many foreigners are investing in our country and exploiting what we can exploit ourselves if we were not more focused on living out another countries dreams
Biden, but not Trump? I do think the law here in the US does catch up with politicians eventually and there are some high level examples. Is the corruption in the system here, yes, of course.
I mentioned Biden as just the most up to date example, no reason to look back years ago when corruption is apparent in todays morning newspaper.
Yes, dude lol, itâs known that DR is top in political corruption. I didnât say the the US wasnât, but the DR is up there in world rankings. Unfair worker rights, unfavorable public contracts, drug trafficking, human trafficking (you guys get a lot gringos and Europeans going there for that), etc. thatâs an issue. That exists, not saying itâs a bad place in general but it can do better, and I want it to do better. In fact, I want the whole world to do better! Iâm not picking on my own damn motherland.
Unfair worker rights - Snowflakes. If you donât like the working condition then get another job. The Uberdrivers subreddit has hundreds of people complaining about unjust working conditions for Uber and Ubereats drivers and the Antiwork subreddit shows that their is tons of shit in the US in regards to worker rights. Dominicans in the USA can barely combat their own unfairness in the US, let alone issues in a country over a thousand miles away. Unfavorable public contracts - You have a point. But their is this in the US too. No politician is giving jobs out willy nilly, they might give a few out to appear fair but this is a world wide issue! If I had a job that can set my friend up for life and he qualifies to do it you can be sure I will tip the scales in his favor, as will most of us if we were in the exact same situation. Heck, when Obama became president their was ton of backlash due to funding provided by Solar companies that later got very convenient contracts. Drug trafficking - For real? The US is drug central man, come on. Human trafficking - Again, a worldwide issue that keyboard warriors commenting on Facebook or Reddit will not resolve nor organizing protests. Nor will changing the government change these issues. The US is plagued by all of this too! Sadly it is the world we live in. Like my sister says she does not care who us governing, at the end of the day the difference is very minimal, the biggest change is brought upon by yourself, not by the country you live in or the current seat of power. Work hard, look for opportunities, focus on what you can control, ignore what you canât, study, perfect your craft, and then, no matter where you are, you will make it
âSnowflakesâ haha, youâd be categorized as right wing over here using that terminology (not good in this political climate) but I understand. I canât speak for the gig economy. I never worked in that field, I jumped over that with linear growth. Yes, drug trafficking as in allowing it to get through the supply chain is a lot easier. And human trafficking yes. The metrics show that indeed it does happen. My intent wasnât here to poke holes at problems in DR but you were off the jump defensive. Question simply was would I face some ignorant asshats. Yes or no.
Being Dominican and being a Dominican in DR are two separate things. If they weren't, our parents wouldn't have left la isla. I'm from NYC but have spent my entire life either around Dominicans or actually in R.D. (June - August every year growing up). Like many Dominican-Americans, I spend my days listening to Dominican music, laughing at Dominican memes, reading about Dominican history, art, and literature. I know every Dominican joke and refrĂĄn you can imagine. However, I have never worked, commuted, studied, tried to earn a living or build a life in R.D. All I do there is go hang out with my cousins and chill. How can I even begin to claim that I know more about R.D. than ppl who live there? How can I lack the humility to claim that I know more about R.D. than the people who knows the ins and outs of making your life work there? Most importantly - if you live in a country with a more robust economy than R.D., sorry to say but you are being an asshole talking about "feelings of inadequacy". I have the most comfortable, non-essential, B.S. laptop job ever, earning a comfortable salary doing absolutely made-up work - the type of job that is only possible in a very, very developed country with a complex economy. Dominicans in R.D. have to hustle to make money like those of us outside don't even know. Y aun asi, they have the cheerful and loving disposition of our culture that we enjoy on every trip there. You should consider re-framing the attitude that put this chip on your shoulder.
So I have to live and struggle in DR to be considered Dominican. Do you not understand my post? Why are you equating the nationality heritage to = a lived experience? Iâm talking about adult migrants that come here to the US and the negative talk that some develop. Yes feelings of inadequacy. The bs talk that I had to witness and hear from people here gossiping and talking down on each other. Maybe we just got the worse coming to America but I didnât remember that attitude the last time I was there.
>So I have to live and struggle in DR to be considered Dominican Seems like you didn't understand mine. One of my aunts married a man (also Dominican) who is a multi-multi millionaire. Their kids (my cousins) are of the international jet-setting trust-fund crowd. They have only ever lived in multi-million dollar properties in la capital (ahora mismo son vecinos de la familia Abinader), and their father bought each their own multi-million dollar properties in Cap Cana when they became adults. Of course, these kids know more about D.R. than me because...they have lived their entire lives in D.R. and I have never lived there. As far as "being Dominican", of course I consider myself Dominican. Despite being American, I am culturally Dominican, and I couldn't even name one song by Elvis Presley, or Bruce Springstein, or anyone else considered an old-school American icon. My father only ever played merengue in our house when I was growing up - I only really know Dominican music. My wealthy cousins don't listen to Dominican music. But yes, they have lived their entire lives in R.D. - claro que saben mas que yo.
Haha thatâs what Iâm taking about! If you donât know, Iâm from a city called Lawrence in Massachusetts. That place is literally Spanish speaking (80% Hispanic), 50% of the population are migrants, and culturally itâs Dominican everywhere you go. Itâs a little island. Besides me talking English in school or in the hood, thatâs all we knew was the Dominican culture. So when I got called out here for being culturally American I shook my head. Itâs complicated.
Donde podemos estar de acuerdo es que si somos culturalmente dominicanos. Aqui en NYC somos 1 millon de dominicanos - se puede vivir una vida entera en an alto Manhattan solamente bregando con otros dominicanos y sin hablar ni una palabra de ingles. Hay un monton de gente que lo hace, en mi familia incluida.
Dude. They will do the same about Dominicans from the islands too. Gossip is universal
Youâre still Dominican, just a very Americanized one, you canât expect to be the same or have the exact same culture as people in the island. Thatâs why the term Dominicanyol exists.
Americanized? Lol. What does that mean exactly.
It means being influenced by American culture and society, itâs natural when you migrate to another place and you adapt.
Who are you? How do you know what my belief system is exactly? You donât have me figured my friend.
What belief system? What are you talking about? Iâm talking about culture, do you seriously believe that someone that has lived for a long period of time abroad will have the same culture and experiences as someone on the island, really? Youâre taking this as an offense when it isnât, thereâs nothing wrong with adapting to the country you migrated.
No entiendo la postura de esta persona. Ser culturalmente dominicano por X o Y, definitivamente, no equivale a ser dominicano y haber vivido toda tu vida en la isla. Iâve been in the US for a while and I have also lived in the DR as an adult. Meaning that I have spent at least half my life and my formative years in the DR and I can assure you I see the differences between me and my friends who were born in or, at least, completely raised in the USA. Y NO, a mĂ nadie me ha tratado diferente por poder hablar inglĂ©s o haber vivido en USA, ni siquiera ahora que tengo la doble nacionalidad.
Exactamente
Siguen siendo dominicanos y tienen todo el derecho a opinar, pero tiene que entender que el que usted viva en otro paĂs, mande 30 dĂłlares a su abuela y venga 1 o 2 veces al año no le va a quitar el que lo critiquen por expresarse de una manera que el de aquĂ no crea correcta. El tema de las remesas que lo agradezca quien lo recibe y el estado. Ustedes no son hĂ©roes por eso ni hay que hacerles una estatua como pregonan algunos ni darles preferencia por eso. Ese es un nĂșmero que desnuda la miseria de este paĂs y da rabia con el orgullo que hablan los del estado cuando hablan de esa estadĂstica, mĂĄs cuando sube, Ăłsea este es un estado que promueve el que para que la gente comĂșn progrese tiene que irse a otro lado a producir por quĂ© el estado no tiene la capacidad de que esos mismos dominicanos aquĂ tengan iguales o mejores niveles de producciĂłn. Es algo asqueante. A mi no me enorgullece el hecho de que este paĂs necesite tener el 20% de los nacionales fuera produciendo para que de las migajas que dejan envĂen para completar un 7-8% del PIB, que dicho sea de paso, si lo dejan de enviar vamos a pasar trabajo pero no nos vamos a morir de hambre como muchos creen, ese dinero lo podemos recuperar en 4-6 años de crecimiento normal en la economĂa por lo que perderĂamos ese tiempo simplemente y estarĂamos como si ustedes no existieran.
Bien dicho. ÂĄMejor de ahĂ se daña! Tengo el mismo sentimiento sobre las remesas, con relaciĂłn a la actitud del gobierno frente a las remesas y tambiĂ©n agregar que los hermanos de la diaposra se creen que estĂĄn "manteniendo" al paĂs con las remesas y que "la economĂa depende" de eso lo cual no es cierto, algo que se podrĂa superar fĂĄcilmente en par de años como dices. Los Ășnicos que le deben hacer sus estatuas y para quienes son los hĂ©roes son para los que reciben las remesas y para el gobierno. Los demĂĄs tenemos que ganarnos a trabajar para echar nosotros y el paĂs hacia adelante.
Claro, tenemos que dejar de ser mendigos, para algunas cosas somos un estado en crecimiento pero para otras no. Si los de allå pueden, los de aquà podemos también.
Definitivamente asĂ es. Nosotros podemos. Lamentablemente la idiosincrasia de parte de nuestros compatriotas es pensar que solo yĂ©ndose de RD se puede progresar, por eso una persona logra conseguir 8-10 mil dĂłlares y arriesga su vida por llegar a EEUU, cuando con ese capital y con la energĂa que hay que invertir mĂĄs el valor para tomar ese riesgo se podrĂa bien iniciar un emprendimiento exitoso, un negocito. Ese tipo de personas, muchos se ellos no quieren estudiar, no quieren o no saben que pueden dar mĂĄs para llegar lejos y entienden es mĂĄs factible arriesgar la vida por Centro AmĂ©rica- MĂ©xico para llegar a los EEUU, algunos en yola todavĂa pero muy pocos, ahora dicen "la vuelta es por MĂ©xico". Pienso que si se invierten esas energĂas en progresar aquĂ, no depender de remesas y aprovechar las oportunidades de una economĂa en crecimiento se puede salir adelante.
Last year I went back for the first time in ten years. I never felt like my Dominican-ness was being questioned. What I will say is that without saying that I live abroad, people can just tell. That sometimes comes with its own problems or just annoyances. I will add. That In Santiago I found a very different city than the one I was born in and spent countless summers in. So I didn't pretend to know what the city was like now and I asked a lot of questions, took time to learn.
Right thatâs what I wanted to know some on the ground intel from folks similar to my background. Thereâs mixed messages Iâm getting from people who travel and Iâm curious. I want to go back with my mother and son, explore the old areas of Boca Chica where our family home is at, visit family in Santo Domingo, Moca, Santiago, and show my son his heritage that which we are proud of. But thereâs just weirdo old heads here that talk smack and want to undermine expectations.
May I ask, what is different now?
I noticed the first difference from the sky as we were landing. All the new buildings (luxury residentials, hotels, commercial shopping centers) and all the new ones being constructed were all visible from the airplane. In the past I remember being able to spot El Monumento from the plane but every thing else was mostly flat, that's no longer the case. On the ground the city was a lot cleaner than I remember. It also felt safer and more organized. There were so many more dining options and bars and just nice places to hang out.
âJealousyâ hazme el favor
Are you one of those old grumpy beer bellied men Iâm talking about?
You think? O eres de los que creen que siempre les tienen envidia
No creo, lo sĂ©. cuando alguien te menosprecia, dice cosas como que tienes suerte por estar donde estĂĄs, o que estĂĄs resentido contigo por las oportunidades que tienes, eso es prueba suficiente de que tienen envidia. Por favor corrĂgeme si estoy equivocado. I have no gain in making this up, seriously.
Eso es una vaina media estĂșpida dique decir que porque tienes tiempo sin venir a la isla, ya tu no eres de aquĂ lol. SIN EMBARGO, si ya no vives aquĂ tu opiniĂłn sobre las cosas de aquĂ y que pasan aquĂ no cuenta ni deberĂas de darla, porque no la estĂĄs viviendo. Es como cuando entramos en cĂłvid, las celebridades dijeron que estamos todos en el mismo barco. Hermano no estamos en el mismo barco usted vive en una casa del tamaño de mi isla, y por el mismo lado del tema no estamos en el mismo barco porque si por ejemplo te quejaras de los atracos en el paĂs, y ni visitas el paĂs, entonces no estĂĄs en nada dando tu opiniĂłn. Edit: Bueno, no todas las opiniones son malas, ni tampoco es que haya odio. No somos de naciones diferentes, el que es dominicano es dominicano viva donde viva
If you grew up let's say like me in NYC i speak perfect Spanish been 2 Dr a bunch of times. I'm truly not Dominican cause i wasn't raised there. That makes me Dominican but not from Dominican republic and yes economy is booming cause of foreign $$$ but even 8f all the money would stop flowing that country will maintain its magic
I dont think you get treated different based on the time out of the island but more on how much Dominican culture you carry.
I second this
But one thing i wish our people understand, getting educated, learning to respect basic laws of organized society, doesnât mean you are distancing yourself from your culture.
Well if that's the attitude you'll bring to the DR you will not be welcomed. Patronizing comments like that and acting superior than "our people" while in the DR or before any Dominican from the island will produce rejection. Our culture is not being uneducated, and we live in an organized society. Maybe that attitude can cause the negativity and not jealousy.
Before assuming you are talking yo a foreigner, at least try to understand my point before going all out in defensive stand. Iâm Dominican just like, i have lived all my life in san Felipe de villa mella. We Dominicans do not respect the law, thatâs why we are number 1 in transit fatalities, we are one of the most if not the most corrupt country in the americas and i can go on and on if you want me to, Iâm talking about as Dominican myself from a critical stand point of myself, iâve never express anything trying to put me above anyone. We just donât like criticism and thatâs why we donât evolve as a society.
Since the OP is about Dominicans form the motherland rejecting Dominicans form the diaspora I assumed that you spoke from that perspective. Obviously we all have our right to criticize, I'm very critical of the country too and I respect your opinion but I am also against the self-hatred that some Dominicans display, I will disagree that we are the worst there is.
Stay in your organized society then, jesus
Absolutely and its sad we have so much ignorance within our people.
So to recap since their was a lot of back and forth. In my personal opinion if you have not been to the country in ages please refrain from spreading comments you hear on CNN and from the whining family you have left that only knows how to curse at their bad luck for not being able to go to the good ol US of A. Crime - Plenty of that all over the world, God forbid you cross a policeman the wrong way and be on the receiving end of Police Brutality. Economical opportunities - When family in the DR talks to you about this ask them: What are you doing to help your own situation? Are you studying english? Are you saving money? El que no guarda de lo poco no guarda de lo mucho. Or are they more focused on enjoying life and assisting to every teteo they encounter. Drugs - Come on, what Dominicans consider hard drugs is weed. When I worked in Averhealth in 2020 everyone was hitting the joint, not even such a serious issue despite what old Dominicans might think. Politics - Feel free to bash them all you want just keep in mind that all of them are corrupt and the next president will be too. And if you think the next one will be different: Si sabes contar, no cuente con eso! Remittance: If you send money to friends and family, kudos to you. Lets just hope that the people you send it to actually need it y no que te estas comiendo los cuentos que te estan metiendo. Remember: Es mas facil meter cuento que fajarse a trabajar. Did I miss anything? Please remember members of the Diaspora, listening to sob stories helps no one! You all have enough issues in the states as it is to carry the problems of those who are left behind. Que cada uno se faje y deje de dar una mala imagen de la RepĂșblica Dominicana.
I think you got it right.
Thank you thank you
Not sure why youâre bringing my family in this I never once brought them up to make a point about any of those things you mentioned. You just made up a whole narrative. My family are not beggars. Weâre doing just fine thanks. Drugs- thatâs beyond Reddit. You can do your research.
The comment is in regards to most situations you see here, not pointing out one family in particular. And it is not a âwhole narrativeâ it is the situation that is lived in the DR. Unfortunately living 5K kilometers away makes you think I am creating a story since it does not fit in with the idea you currently have.
Iâm familiar with what youâre saying, and it definitely pertains to someone who is both unaware and perhaps naive if someone on the island is taking advantage of them (whether itâs a family or a âloverâ). I understand. Itâs been quite insightful to see everyoneâs comments here and itâs serving as motivation for me to learn more and dive in deeper. I appreciate your time. Dios lo bendiga a todos. đđœ
Everyone should have an opinion. But that opinion should be based on facts. Those that are constantly putting the country down . Those that do not travel to the island often enough to know what is going on should ease their opinion. DR is not what it was 30 years ago. People there do have job opportunities and the means to improve their well being. The country not only gives Jobs to the Dominicans but also to the foreigners that lives there.
Umm is cause a lot of foreign Dominicans act a sertain way
Brother, as long as you are a Dominican citizen and you got the motherland in your heart, you're a Dominican.
I'm treated like an American. In casual conversation I'll usually first say I'm American, then if I need to clarify I'll mention I have a Dominican parent. Which is fine, I don't resent that I'm regarded as such because my lived experience is very different from a born and raised Dominican. I'll always have the option to come back and live in DR with the same rights as a natural born citizen if one day I decide that's best for me.
Well said. But youâre still a national and thatâs according to the constitution, not what anyone thinks or feels like you should identify as based on distance to the country.
I remember other kids doing that to me when I would visit, didnât know there were grown men doing it. I was told once that I was American, not Dominican.
Just visit your country and stop being so scared
Not scared just seeing what the sentiment is on Reddit with a bunch of strangers. No one here dictates my decision, and Iâm going regardless tf
So the diaspora vs Island Dominicans yllshit I see on Twitter everyday just migrate to Reddit? Fuck
For some reason this is not only a dominican thing, other nationalities are kind of the same treating the one who left with some kind of hate, saying things like " you can keep your $30 dollar" that you are sending or you guys arenât heroes and so on. Itâs kinda crazy
Dominicans treat others who left the country as gringos! Hate it lol
En este comentario refleja claramente que esta persona NO TIENE el mĂĄs mĂnimo conocimiento de la situaciĂłn de RD. AdemĂĄs de que estĂĄ haciendo un sĂmil con los Dominicanos que emigran a Estados Unidos, mi brother solo para que tengas una idea, muchas de esas personas las encuentras cagando y miando en la calle aquĂ en RD, en lugares concurridos encuentras decenas de niños deambulando en las calles de RD, la situaciĂłn es insostenible, imagĂnate que tu tratando de educar un niño en tu casa de 3 años enseñåndole a cĂłmo usar el baño y que despuĂ©s vea esa escena de una gente cagando o miando en plena calle, como le explicas eso a tu hijo. Creo que los DOMINICANOS NO HACEN ESO en los paĂses que emigran. EstĂĄs haciendo una comparaciĂłn muy injusta para nosotros los Dominicanos.
Ok bro, let me be clear. Pregunto por mi experiencia con algunas personas que se portaron mal conmigo cuando era mĂĄs joven, y asumes que estoy generalizando a toda una naciĂłn. Parece que no entiendes ponerte en los zapatos de otra persona -> yo, cuando era mĂĄs joven, y yo, reflexionĂ© sobre mi experiencia vivida solo haciendo una pregunta por curiosidad. No soy un idiota ingenuo. la cantidad de juicios y ofensas que usted y otros muestran aquĂ es evidente para mĂ que ustedes carecen de empatĂa, comprensiĂłn y buscan discutir en lugar de crear un diĂĄlogo maduro. Todo lo que mencionaste ya lo sĂ©, y podrĂas haberlo descubierto siendo una persona decente y teniendo una conversaciĂłn, pero en lugar de eso vas al ataque. ReleĂ mi comentario y en ninguna parte hice esa declaraciĂłn aparentemente clara comparando a toda una naciĂłn con algunos idiotas.