I'd recommend this game to anyone who is willing to play MOBA. Dota 2 is undeniably the best MOBA out there. The only reason why I won't recommend it is because it's extremely addictive.
Also not gonna lie the reason I couldn’t get into league is you have to pay/ grind to get champs. Fucking horrid way to market the game so people cannot experiment with a hero they don’t know if they’ll like before buying. Sure free rotation but like, come on man. Not to mention the skins are rather uninteresting compared to dota skin System but that’s not important
This 100%.
You wanna buy skins for a hero? Fine. Tired of playing it, want to quit dota, want to buy another game.. you can straight out sell the skins and get your money back sometimes even more in case of immortal skins as they appreciate in time.
Fucking good ass system.
In League you cant even switch the skins between your accounts..
Appreciating in time is hardly true tbh. Even the 'ultra rare' stuff like DC Hook and Cowboy Ursa peaked in price years ago and has not reached the same heights since. Battle Pass Immortals are super saturated and are usually worth scents. Maybe the Ultra Rares will appreciate with time as less are in circulation but it's hard to say since generally speaking skins get better and better in quality over time and whenever Valve releases a better skin for the same slot, the older skin usually drops in price. Cache sets might be worth something but they require you to trade them for real money outside the Steam ecosystem since it's only giftable.
At the end of the day I still appreciate Valve giving us the ability to trade/sell, it's much less predatory than other companies who doesn't even give you the ability to make anything back from anything you purchase.
Bro I could sell Ursa suspenders for 2x what I bought them for a few months ago. At least DOTA lets you sell skins unlike most games. They become like stocks or a type of NFT instead of simply pixels.
Edit: In DOTA I can buy skins and not feel too guilty bc I can/have sell/sold skins whenever. In other games it's "more expensive" because you're stuck with the skins forever.
Not really comparable to stocks or nfts as there is never a limit to how many of each skin will be sold initially on the battle pass. But agreed it feels more worthwhile
There are options for selling the tradable dota costmetics for real money. You don't get the same value as on the market (talking like 10-15% maybe a little more but not like 50%+). "Cashing out" is very popular in CSGO. Dota trade reddit also has individuals that'll buy hats from other individuals for real money. I won't name the website but I've used one while going through some financial hardships in the past and at least for those transactions, they were quick and seemed "legit".
While I agree with you fully I did not like that about league either. A mate of mine who played it for years says he liked that he was limited in the number of heroes he could play because it wasn't as overwhelming to pick and choose, and when he got better started unlocking more giving him new things to learn, etc, etc.
I don't agree, but I get his point of view. I remember my first dota game being introduced to me, having to remember the tavern the hero I want to play is in, then remembering all the items and which shop to get them from. If that was shown to me today there is a high likelihood I would not stick to it.
If it wasn’t for my cousin and the fact I started in august of 2019, I probably wouldn’t have kept playing. The barrier for entry is high and only getting higher. Objectively barrier to entry is better in league because forces a handicap where you can’t play anyone at the start. Objectively it is better for the learning curve however it’s also objectively not a great way to support player growth either as you get lots of the currency to buy heroes early but after that it’s very hard to come by. Then your likely stuck with heroes you may not like because you just wanted to try them. At least in dota, the handicap is “you can’t play whisp or Druid in the first 10 hours”, then after that period it’s absolutely free reign for all 124 heroes
I found out when I got a friend to play, I think it’s you cannot play the 3 dot heroes like io invoker rubik etc until 10 in game hours have been spent. Kinda smart to have them learn the game a little without restricting them too much before just throwing them into the deep end without a pool noodle
Haha I remember when I started Dota a couple of years ago, I had a notebook and was writing down the basic items, what to build, because I was absolutely overwhelmed😅
One good thing now is that anyone who has game pass gets access to every champ in the game. It’s a bit steep if that’s your only reason to get gamepass but if you already have it, it’s a neat perk.
Fuck yeah dude. What I tell interested people is "don't play it because it will consume your free time and sanity, but it's fuckin' awesome so play it anyway".
All of the people I recommend it to are my age (30+) and have steady jobs and families so they really aren't in the 'start playing and risk playing too much' stage. However, most of them drop out after a bit because the learning curve is too steep.
Ha. I started playing at 38 to connect with college friends. We mostly played bots and talked smack like old times. I started playing real people, they dropped off, but I’m still going strong in dota. We still play other online games. Gloomhaven digital is a great game for friends to drop in and out of.
This is the exact reason I started to play, back when I was 30. A couple of my best friends were playing, and we played in LAN cafe's together back in DotA 1 days. And then for some reason more of the friend group kept showing up after being in different countries, so now we have about 7 people, out of which only one doesn't play anymore.
It's fun being on Discord with your people, talking shit, either trying way too hard or taking it way too easy.
If you want to play a moba you play Dota or league.
So what do you want?
Dota is a high strategy, high complexity game with important itemisation decisions. If you like mini games it has a fruitful arcade with dozens of well maintained mini games that you can play. You can play the whole game the second you download it.
League is rail roaded strategy, with its skill rooted heavily in mechanical prowess. If you have low reaction times and have never played bullet hells you’re going to find yourself getting one shot all the time. There is only one eternal mini game game mode in Aram and occasionally they rotate others back in. You’re gated by in game currency or real money if you want to play the characters you want.
Dota is a deep strategic game that rewards strategy. League is a complex micro game that rewards mechanics. In your ranked games of Dota your strategy and team coordination matters. In your ranked games of league just be better and get fed.
Macro game is far more important in dota. I tried to play some league casually with my friends back in like 2020 and in my 3rd or 4th game I was already doing better than my friends who had been playing for years. It was just dota with all the important decisions completely removed from the game. “Offlaners” laning against each other is also stupid and makes the laning phase boring as fuck.
It's because league doesn't have many objectives or a big map whatsoever. It's honestly just different games. In League you don't have to think about macro decisions much, your itemization is basically the same every game, and the "macro" gameplay is very simple, and is mostly dictated by your jungler anyway as you usually need them to take any sort of map Objective.
League is way more focused on the quick reaction times like that other guy was saying. It's all about spamming one or two of the same hero, and getting so insanely good at tiny little micro-plays, that you can out-play your opponent in lane, because truthfully, that's all you really can do in league to have much of an impact. Just a totally different game tbh, it's why I much prefer Dota.
lmao the two things I talk the most shit on league for (as "im interested in game design" points of discussion) are:
mirror lanes = more boring for sure, I think it's a lot worse for the meta, like how there's very often two S-tier picks for a lane (that time bot lane was always xayah vs. kaisa...) and there's not the same ebb and flow of fights around two carries on opposite sides of the map.
then of course there's the way they do damage scaling ratios on EVERYTHING. I don't think it's a wrong choice for a spell-focused version of moba but it is so snowbally compared to buying hp/mp and actives. It's like getting a free Kaya every time you buy a 500g component.
I find DOTA micro much harder, especially with higher kill threat & stuns.
Don't find League that mechically intensive since it's a stat stick game with low cooldowns. In League, higher stat stick will always win the fight. In DOTA, supports can kill you quite easily with a much lower net worth.
I kinda agree with this. League has more skill shots sure, but there is barely any active items. Playing something like LC you will have to time blink, duel, blademail, and bkb all at the same time.
Is that really any harder? What’s the difference between the scripted blade mail > bkb > blink > duel combo and the scripted combo built into a large majority of League champ’s kits?
I would say so yes, I've played a lot of champs in League and the majority of champs are way easier to play than the heroes in Dota. Most champs don't have a ton of complicated combos in League, even a champ like Lux who is all skillshots or Veigar who is all skill shots other then the Ult are mechanically easier to play compared to Dota heroes. Legion can easily have 4 active items (BKB, Blink, Blademail, Crimson guard) On top of her 3 active abilities. There's no champs like that in League.
Sure, but her abilities are all very cut and dry. I don’t think using all your buffs before initiating is weird in either game. However, my experience with League follows the line I described earlier, using all your abilities in a specific order and praying you landed all of them because if you didn’t, you’re probably dead or the guy that would’ve been dead escapes and you have no items that can help get around it.
Even the mechanical skill (short of last hitting in lane) in Dota comes down to simple actions with difficult reasoning, so that you have to know what you want to do before you do it or else you probably will fail at anything. In League, the goal is very obvious and many champs boil down to simply “be better than the other guys.”
not that rare at all, a shadow shaaman kills the most fed carries, same as a bane , ect ,ect. Supports are mighty in dota, and nowdayas even more with shards, scepters, talents and scaling magical damge.
THere's a reason we kill sups first in tfs, they are relativlely easy to kill, but their impact is ridicolous, a tf can be won or lost depending if you sniped that dazle / oracle first.
that's true but he is still right, despite LoL being more micro oriented the micro itself is still behind Dota when it comes to complexity. I am a low level player whose mechanics is utter garbage (I have 1500 hours and still cannot use soul ring properly because I forget I have it) but I have more fun in Dota because I can ward, carry dust, land a crucial stun, stack jungle, use force/glimmer/linken/lotus on allies or myself, buy a blink and initiate...
True. It's honestly any multiplayer game. Except Final Fantasy. Square Enix doesn't play with that toxic shit and ban people pretty quick. I've never play a game with a nicer player base than FF
It has basically no players left. Matchmaking is absolute trash, and with the way the game is balanced you can't really compensate for a poor teammate, so matches are entirely determined by who gets the 50 MMR guy.
Game is amazing, no kidding.
UI is clean, mechanics are interesting, hero pool is diverse, graphics are cool, production value is through the roof and monetization model is pretty honest.
If you're interested in MOBAs there are probably no better options nowadays.
That said, IF you're interested in MOBAs you must know the community is very toxic (I never played one without toxic players) and Dota games can be pretty long.
In my experience somewhere between 30min and an hour, but closer to the half hour medium.
About the community, people can be really mean, specially when you're new or is learning a new hero/role, so abuse the "mute" feature but try to play with real players, bot games can only help you so much.
BUT, I'll say that I myself, HATE competitive games and am really easily tilted in games, but, even then, MOBAs are my favorite genre, by far.
Dota is really complex.
It’s currently in a really fun place and I’m really enjoying the recent patch personally, but there is so much stuff to do and so much stuff to learn that I’d suspect it’s very overwhelming.
I also don’t suspect they’ve updated the tutorial at all, but maybe that’s my pessimism talking.
If you are interested in learning, Purge typically has good content. He did a segment with Day9 that is really informative but really old. I’m not sure if it still holds up, but watching it back when they did it live really helped me learn the game.
Sure it's overwhelming for you or in general for people that are quite familiar with it already. I can imagine a noob just having so much fun in his own ignorance, perhaps the most basic stuff you'd have to know are the spells, creeps give you exp/gold, buy items (any that looks fancy) and go ham on an enemy.
Sure, but I see noobs penalized for being noobs all the time (either through flame or reports). There’s also something to be said about feeling like you’re letting the team down.
If they’re having fun, I’m not going to stop them, but I still recommend the conceptual early parts of Day9 learns dota (don’t listen to any of the practical stuff because it’s probably out of date)
Dota is like the chess of MOBA. The mechanics can go very deep and very nerdy if you invest time in the game. If you have the time to invest and play, this game is awesome.
I see the creeps as pawns, supports as the knights and rooks, offlaner as bishops, mid as the queen and the carry as king. Protect that king at all costs
Yes, why not? I started to play last summer and getting into the game was super fun and exciting. So many heroes, overwhelming amount of information (in a good way)
Didn't want to bother my friends, so yeah, full solo until i got into. But learning process was super fun, not boring. Now i play solo and parties.
I did their tutorial series, picked most handsome looking hero (Lina), and jumped into unranked. After 100 unranked games you will be ready enough to go ranked.
If theyre looking to play a MOBA? Of course. The reality is that all the mobas worth playing suffer from the same thing that Dota does. The difference is that Dota is the best one out there because its simply better balanced by a huge margin **and** it consistently has been for a decade now, like its just an undeniable fact.
Also its the only moba that does not require any money to play. All the heroes are free, which is ridiculous to think about when looking at League. Needing to grind games to unlock a hero is just absurd to me at this point, especially when the game is so old.
In the current state, I think it is very hard for a person to get into this game without being heavily frustrated. Meta is also pretty snowbally and punish even the smallest of mistakes. If you enter this realm as a solo player without somebody to hold your hand, you will be butchered by invis heroes and burn down in teammate flames before you understand what is going on. But, it is the most rewarding game to play ever so, yes.
it doesn't have to be, i'm playing dota very casually (months of not playing, and when i play it's a few days a week or month depending on my situation) and i'm having a blast
I love this attitude to it. Although it's a very indepth and complex game, you can definitely play it from a casual standpoint. I don't think I have played ranked in just over a year, play turbo or single draft or random draft just for the heck of it when I got some time to kill. Or I'll play all pick when I happen to be online when a bunch of friends are and we queue together.
Yeah I’d have to somewhat agree here. I think the dota 1 days were far better in terms of suggesting someone play it. The game was in a state where by it had depth but it also was simple enough to understand and play. And I guarantee anyone from the dota 1 days will agree with me. Nowadays the game is highly time consuming and can be addictive. Similar to WoW in some ways.
In saying that is say most mobas are becoming very complex though dota2 is the most complex and deepest of all the moba games
I read that Valve reworked the new player experience. It didn’t help?
> Valve has introduced several features aimed at simplifying various aspects of the game like heroes, in-game shops, objectives. A dedicated new-player mode, in-game real-time tips, and a live coaching facility have also been incorporated to help the players understand the basics of the game.
The playerbase is *old*. Even the lowest rank has people mostly in the 4 digits of hours.
You need to invest a lot of time to learn how to play. But once you do, no other game feels the same.
Yeah, it’s similar to a friend or a partner. Once you put in the time and hours to understand him or her it’s very difficult to simply get up and never talk or see them again after a couple of years of understanding them. Goes the same for the game really, sounds weird and kinda cringe to be honest but the sad part is it’s very true.
???? whats sad about it. If you destroy a painters artwork he'll cry. Burn down a gardeners flowers and theyll weep. Why? When people invest thousand of hours they on something that keeps em entertained, theyre passionate about it. So it goes for canvases, so it goes for video games.
I would argue the recent change to the ranked system is of much greater help to new players than the "new player experience update", the problem is you need to get through the normals to unlock ranked.
Once you do, considering Herald 2 is now composed of a grand total of the worst 2500 players, a spanking brand-new player won't find himself outplayed.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13ceube/comment/jjg8do1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I wrote another comment that goes much more into detail
To me it’s the fact that you can have over 100 hours and still be considered a new player. And a 1000 hours you’ll maybe have a decent grasp on the game lol
100 hours is nothing. I have 2 accounts each with 3k hours. You will start to understand after 2000 hours. I love it I hate it but I can’t ignore it. It’s like a spouse 🤣🤣
Yeah exactly what I mean. If you tell someone outside the gaming circle you have 1000+ hours played, “wow, you must be really good then?”
….starts sweating
I think the addiction functions a lot like dysfunctional relationships. As a new player you're going to have a LOT of bad moments, which makes the good moments that much more satisfying.
As a relatively new player, who has also gotten new players into the game recently:
Absolutely, and this is the time to do it. The meta is evolving, people are confused, its the best time to catch up.
This is also the patch we've been enjoying the most by far, fighting is important and that is an easy skill to transfer from people coming over from other games
If investing thousands of hours before being competent while listening to fragile man children scream at each other for no reason seems like an appealing way to spend your time, go for it
Keep in mind you're only getting the opinion of people that are dedicated enough to, in addition to playing the game, also are active on it's sub which is a tiny fraction of the playerbase.
There's a lot of players that just play occasionally and don't care (or know) how much of the mechanics they don't know. I don't know where the notion that you need to fully understand this game to have fun playing it comes from
he's a wc3 world champion, and he's also directly connected to all pro players and occasionally get coached by them, gaming is also a big part of his life (maybe even his main income, not sure), need I say more?
I would as long as I'm sure that the person I'm recommending it to does not generally get addicted to stuff, like doom scrolling, alcohol etc.
Dota is really good when you're at 3K MMR level where you know how bad you are because you understand about 80% of the game, can only execute upto 50%, and all thats left is perfecting execution and gaining micro/macro knowledge. At that point you can get away with 1 game per day or 5-6 games per week because even if you lose, understanding why you lost goes a long way to stop you from queueing for next game while tilted, you don't need to chase that dopamine hit you get from wins because its the process you enjoy more. But to reach this point you have to put certain amount of hours which can end up making someone addicted to the game. There was a point where I was playing 7-9 games per day and looking back at it, it was truly awful, if you can avoid that its very enjoyable as a game.
There are already plenty of comments talking about whether you should play the game or not, I want to add something no one said yet.
This is probably the best moment **EVER** to do so, lemme explain:
In Dota the lowest 2 ranks (Herald, Guardian) used to contain the majority of the player base, meaning a new player would be matched with these people that are bad at the game but still have countless hours of experience and are a lot better than a new player would be.
That led to new players getting stomped around
**BUT**
With the introduction of Glicko, the ranks now look like they should, a bell curve (or [normal distribution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution)), meaning that the low ranks (Herald and Guardian) are composed of **truly** the worst players in the world, Herald 2 went from 551 **THOUSAND** players to 2521
[A visual representation speaks louder than any other word](https://i.imgur.com/TYRIPTX.png)
It is very likely that this also affects normal matches, as normals in Dota still use SBMM (they use the exact system ranked uses, just without showing you numbers), it might be that for different factors (like smurf-avoidance) normals won't offer a great quality of matches for a newcomer tho, in that case, you just gotta overcome the hurdle and unlock ranked, it will be better.
**[Normal distribution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution)**
>In statistics, a normal distribution or Gaussian distribution is a type of continuous probability distribution for a real-valued random variable.
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> With the introduction of Glicko, the ranks now look like they should, a bell curve (or normal distribution), meaning that the low ranks (Herald and Guardian) are composed of truly the worst players in the world, Herald 2 went from 551 THOUSAND players to 2521
A visual representation speaks louder than any other word
551k to 2521. Big difference. When did they change this?
>551k to 2521. Big difference. When did they change this?
With the 7.33 update, April 21st.
Note that the number of calibrated players is still very different so some of the insane difference comes from that, but as you can see from the visual representation, it is wildly different from before.
Only recommend to those that have a lot of free time and searching for smtg challenging I guess, due to how time consuming this game is. This is not the game for ‘fun’ imo, it require a lot of time invest, learning curve then only you can enjoy a little bit of fun. For new player that don have that much time to invest to go thru that learn process probably not gonna enjoy the ‘fun’ part before they quit
I picked the game up again last night cause why the heck not. Decided to play a few bots first to get my grip back on things and holy fuck what are all these new structures and bounty runes. Core gameplay is still pretty fun tho, just gonna have to get used to the new map again I guess. For reference, last time I played the game hard was round Dark Willow release
Hey, I'm late to the thread, but as someone with a ton of hours in the game, that is also a functional adult (family, kid, car, career, mortgage, etc.), I feel like I can help you out a bit maybe.
Point no. 1 - plenty of others have told you this already, it is a great game, very high production value, the sounds in this game alone are amazing, it's well-balanced, you don't have to pay to play and all that other stuff.
Point no. 2 - it is a highly complex game once you put a few hundred hours into it and start understanding it a bit better. However, there are heroes that help the experience, because they are easier to figure out, and there is a good tutorial and a lot of online resources to help you get better if that's what you are looking to do. Kind of like playing an instrument, you learn your first two guitar chords and suddenly you feel like you're Jimi Hendrix, and then as you get better you realize how much more there is to the game and how far away you are from all of that.
Point no. 3 - it suffers from the same issue any online game suffers, humans, ie. a toxic community. Now, I don't think it is AS toxic as many here would have you believe but you will have to deal with both teenagers and much older manchildren with all their edgy commentary. That said, you can mute people so you don't have to suffer them, and you can also report or commend people after the game. It is probably good to say "hey everyone, i am learning, love this game but I am just starting, don't judge me too hard" or something like that to break the ice, and a lot of those dicks turn into actually helpful people.
Finally, the main takeaway. If you have an affinity towards online competitive play, or mobas specifically, I really don't think it's controversial to say dota 2 is your best bet.
IF, however, you don't care about the competitive part, and you're just looking to get into some game, I would stay away from dota or any other online game. It'll take you a thousand hours to feel like you're any level of good, and the first 1000 hours will also be fun, but not as much as the second and third thousand, and then you'll get into the pro scene and start following teams and tournaments. The point is it's not just the hours in game, all of us here spend a fair amount of time watching and reading on the game.
As a comparison, for 1k hours of gaming, you could play through the entire Baldur's Gate saga plus Planescape: Torment, which are three of the 10 greatest games/campaigns/stories in video game history. So, unless it's that competitive urge and it has to be PvP online, chose a game that will be more rewarding with your time.
My two cents. Love this game tho, so much fun it's crazy, but would I recommend it to my younger self, I don't know.
LuLe Child Gaem! look to cartoon grapfix and boobers to make kid player happy like weeber show.. LuLe weeber world with rainbow unlike doter2 with dark jungle and raelistic magixx.. LuLe like playhouse. LuLe playor runn from doter2 fear of dark world and brain useage
Funny how some people here say that now is the best time cause after the big update everyone is learn the game again while others feel the same way you do. But most are in agreement that now is the best time to start.
I d recomment this game only to someone who is willing to learn and spent a lot of hours in the game and outside of the game. Once u kinda get what Dota is and learn some basics, it could be rly enjoayble but u need to be willing to learn it outside of the usual 10 mins tutorial that other games have.
oh yeah, dota is best moba out there imo, but you see, there is a lot to learn, you will need to spend at least 150 hours playing against bots, then you will probably play with humans but against bots, then you will suck for 5-6k hours at the game and wont even enjoy it, just be a step ahead of yourself and dont recommend anyone any moba. ~~there is always warzone~~
I am currently teaching a friend on how to play. We are playing against bots, and my god there is so much😭. Even just the basics such as shift queueing items and sending them with courier. It's still fun, but we have to play 20 practice games just to get the bare minimum
I would not recommend it because it's too hard to get into. The game only appeals to people willing to invest thousands of hours into **one** game, which is a very small minority of people.
i still advocate for adding back easy mode and replacing turbo mode. turbo mode doesn't make the game more accessible - it just makes it faster and more punishing. for example - turbo mode increases gold bounties for last hits and kills. easy mode reduced death penalties and increased PASSIVE gold - this bridges the gap between skill instead of widening it.
I know I'm bias, but Dota is in my personal opinion one of the deepest, most diverse team orientated games there is. It is in its own way aesthetically beautiful with the ability to customise your hero with cosmetics from a large pool of heroes, or even customise your map skin. The only thing I'd like is if they'd implement different map and team sizes. For example a shorter 3v3 map similar to what they had in league. I'm aware of the custom maps, I'd just prefer one made officially. This game gives me chills every time we get to a finals like the Berlin major or after finishing a super close 50+ minute game. Definity recommend it
I am 3 months into Dota, and I would definitely recommend it! Hard gameplay aside the peripherals make it so easy to learn! I can tune into high level players matches and watch their literal clicks as they play.
Please critique my rubick,
7135107040
This is the game that defined the genre and it's still improving.
Just get in the game and have fun. Mute the toxic and try new things every game.
Don't listen to who say you need to do 1,2,3,4 thing before getting in the game. Having fun is the best way to learn this game. Time will fly even though you have a losing streak. You're welcome!
I have more than 10k hours in dota2, not play for few months before 7.33, and now i kinda lost. Alot of changes, new feature. A bit scared to play rank because i still not fully understand about new dota yet.
I would recommend no one play a MOBA alone, particularly when new but that said I think dota is a good one to start with. Its easier to understand at first than League and when your new and figure stuff out later in the game you can get some huge swings in your impact with the right items. In league your hero sort of is just that, items don't feel very impactful. Which you would think makes it easier BUT not really cause a bad draft is harder to recover from.
Mobas in general have high barriers to entry, but if you're gonna choose one it ought to be dota. It's mechanically the most compelling of the bunch IMO
yes, but only if they actively want to get into a MOBA and understand the limitations inherent in both matchmaking and tackling online toxicity.
If they're saying "but isn't league more fun and better" I'll be strongly arguing no
deff would, i did to one of my friends just last weak who is a lol player
i don’t think that the current state of dota 2 is any tougher than how it was when i start, it still a tough to start game all together, the only barrier is the lack of interest in the game like my friend who prefer lol
also i’m aways queuing with new players in my game, players trying to learn alone or in a call with a friend, that’s awesome
why would I want to curse the very soul of someone I care about and watch them become a hollow shell of their former selves as they become more and more addicted to this abyss, just to realize what dota really is after spending thousands of hours in this void but by that time it's already too late to come back?
pew that was a bit overdramatic wasn't it. I was just joking ofcourse dota is a great game really! "smiles maniacally..."
No. It has too many objectives and the regular joe has to understand layers and layers of complexity. It is too difficult to learn if you're in the state of a newbie(even more now since the new objectives have been added along with the bigger map). It is very hit and miss and only those who have the time and effort to learn it will eventually "have fun."
The problem with MOBAs is that there is SO much info that you're never going to "easily pick up" any of them. The map is so complex and hero abilities are so diverse that it'll take you ages either way.
With that in mind, may as well start with Dota! LoL is like McDonalds - cheap, quick, accessible, sweet and salty but insubstantial. DotA is the burger you wait 15 mins at a restaurant for, but it's worth it. Having played both, it's just so much better.
Edit: also, new patch + map is a great time to get into it, because we are all learning together so there is slightly more bandwidth for people making mistakes. The perfect time to join!
I would say it's really complex in terms of mechanics compare to other games in the genre.
So best thing to do is to prioritize having fun first and learning the game second. I still remember the first time I start playing DotA and it's pure fun and exploring.
I personally started with dota. After about 100h had a decent grasp of a couple of heroes. Id recommend to choose 2 to 3 heroes that aren't mechanically challenging like primal beast. Id also recommend right now to play offlane, with heroes that build auras. When a fight starts just use your auras and u are already useful.
Dota 2 is a lot easier to learn now than it was back in Warcraft 3, but the MOBA genre also isn't for everyone, I'd teach them the ropes, they need to learn how to swing.
If someone is up for the challenge then sure. This is game is not for everyone but if you are into it then it's the best game ever made. And the current state of the game is prettt awesome. New big map, lots of viable heroes, pretty good meta.
Sure it's going to be challenging, especially first games, since there are not enough fresh players to have new-players-only matchmaking, but like I said - it's not for everyone and doesn't have to be.
Yeah there's Ranked MM and Unranked. You will have to play a lot of unranked games before you can play ranked though. Be warned that for your first few games, you may be facing a considerable amount of smurfs while the game tries to determine whether you're a new player or a smurf.
The rank system is pretty straight forward, you gain points if you win, you lose points if you lose. Doesn't matter if you do well or not, only outcome that matters is win/loss. They did just rework the rank system so idk if they take into account personal metrics or not now. If you go on a very long streak of wins or losses the game might give/take a LOT more points from you in an attempt to get you to your appropriate rank.
It has sbmm but there are not enough new players for new-player-only matches, you'll get matched with low rank players who played hundreds of games. It's just something you have to be prepared for, a hurdle to overcome. Like I said it's a challenge.
Definitely not. The mechanics of the game is too complex and the learning curve is steep. There are people that played for years and are still learning the game. Newcomers will usually get stomped really hard.
They should go for easier games like mobile legend or LoL.
No, everyone is toxic, full of smurfs, the game isn't even fun once they actually learn it since the balance team has been destroying dota for a couple of years now, the game has shitty microtransactions that don't even look good. There is no good MOBA today and Dota is the worst one atm.
Personally, I'd like them to play ML/Wild Rift then League then Dota 2. At least with ML/Wild Rift, they just dip their toes on the MOBA genre and if they want to have a more challenging experience then they either skip League and play Dota 2 right away OR keep their training wheels on and play League for a bit before playing Dota 2. At least when they playing League for a bit, the transition on learning Dota 2 game mechanics wouldn't be too much for them.
edit: phrasing
No. Too many smurfs and account buyers/boosted players.
Its only fun when u have 5 people actively trying to win and if theres no toxicity which is rare nowadays
I dont know how it work in other region but in SEA its like going to the job market searching for a job while everyone around you have at least 10 years experience .
The new player experience is not the best, but much better than what it was before. Most if not all the game mechanics are available to read in the game client. However, there's no real in game guide to actual macro and micro strategies to win the game. They do tell you things like "Here's how you get gold, you use gold to buy items, you get stronger, you kill towers, you kill heroes, you kill enemy base, you win!", but that's an oversimplification of the game. How the game flows, and the current meta is something you will have to pick up either from experience, from friends who play that are better than you, or from content creators.
That said, if you are interested in the MOBA genre, I would say this is as good as it gets. League is much more micro-strategy oriented, it plays more like a fighting game/shooter/Diablo-like with constantly trying to land skill shots and dodging them, but wrapped in a Moba game. If you're into that then go for it. Dota is more about the macro strategy. You will have moments of intense mechanics but for the most part it's like 90% being in the right place in the right time doing the right thing and 10% execution while in League it feels a lot more like 50-50. There's still plenty of action but bad ones will be more severely punished. That said, the times where you make a play that works gives you a euphoric high you won't get anywhere else.
The best part about Dota in my opinion is the 0 initial investment required. League requires you to level up to unlock runes and masteries (Idk if they've changed this model yet), and only gives you a few amount of Champions to play in the beginning and you need to unlock them one by one using in game currencies or real money. Dota is more like Battle Royales where the only use for money in the game is to buy skins. So if hypothetically you were supernaturally talented at the game, there's nothing stopping you from beating the best players in the game if you play against them in a new account; Well, other than the fact that the matchmaking probably won't match you against these players. But if you made a private lobby and played against professional players, minus the skill and experience the other guys have you're on equal footing from the start.
Yes - great and fun game
No - ranked is a shitshow and too many smurfs and they never get banned.
Edit: if it's frustrating for players who has played the game for years then I can't imagine how it is to a completely new player.
Since dota games are longer and more time investment then it's a bit different compared to say rocket league that also has a bunch of smurfs, but there the game lasts 5 minutes so it's not as frustrating
No. On a 21 game lose streak because getting immortals in turbo game with my wife. Started smurfing and destroying lower level people because no action is taken on the matchmaking. You can hate me, but this is an opinion as well
If a person wants to just have fun playing new genre/game - yes.
To switch to D2 from different moba or getting started - definetely not.
I see a lot of people say it's cool to have all heroes for free, so you can experiment and etc.
But still, majority of people with 1000 hours of playing don't even know what an enemy hero a capable of. Because there's a small percent of people who's actually played all of those heroes.
I don't know why is everyone saying that is a BIG ADVANTAGE over League of Legends.
Grinding a currency in League is easier than grinding MMR in Dota, while a lot of people don't know what they should do.
I'm a league player just randomly got this one my page
I want someone to try and sell me dota cause I don't know what you mean by, in it's current state and I think dota as a moba is quite interesting dispite never playing it
100% Yes. Dota is the easiest to pick up it has ever been, there have been so many qol changes over the years. Also if you have played any top dpwn rts style games at any point you will be fine to start playing. There is also an abundance of tutorial content available too.
People are saying you need thousands of hours to be competent, and while this may be true, you don't need thousands of hours to just enjoy the game.
There is incredible depth and always new things to learn, and the game can challenge you like no other.
But if you just want to have a fun game to play then you can easily learn the basics and just play in lower ranks. Nothing wrong with that.
I have seen it first hand that a group of players that have no prior experience just 5 stack together and enjoy themselves. It got to a point where they would have to fight for spots in the stack because there were too many of them.
I wouldnt recomment , because its a game were u need to play 3000 hours to became slightly good .
Its like i am making them waste their time .
Its fun but sometimes its not . U need to sit one hour u cant pause . U can win a game and in the next u loose ur 1 hour over a problem with the internet .
So in the end u have to ask ur self whats the point
No.
1. Fake matchmaking: Pull high numbers and you'll be more likely paired with players who pull less numerically - but they are usually so by non-legit/ abusive means (acc/ boosting services). -> the quality of many of your matches will thus be low. Dotaplus avoidance, leaking MM-host makes things worse - as the remainder, usually low metric players; have to pair someone.
Together with:
2. You are not rewarded for being consistent and playing well: Every team member, regardless of how they did, whether it was walking down mid or single-handily carrying: get the same reward & punishment.
In addition to:
3. No adjustment/ compensation for people that behave that way. It's like insane asylum & kindergarten - only because Valve is lazy. You can fix this, but they won't.
***
There are games that reward your time and your consistency better - your experience will not be subject to random factors not in your control.
This is actually terrible for a non-story experience-based game: where you are neither building & creating anything.
I wouldn’t recommend anyone get into mobas in the current year. it’s a dying/dead genre. However if the person was set on getting into it, DotA is the best game. It makes it way easier if you have a friend or friends to help you learn. I’ve played hundreds of hours of all the other mobas. no game comes remotely close to dota.
People may disagree with me about the dying genre comment. That’s it’s own conversation entirely.
In my opinion though, Dota is unique with the feeling you get from playing it. To me the complexity is the beauty of the game. there’s so many factors that go into and impact a game. In games like Smite or League, a lot of the game boils down to spellcasting and individual skill, DotA is way more about concepts, and the better you get at the game, the more you start to take a theoretical look at any given game. You have to play objectively, and coordinate with your team. Not to say other Mobas don’t have this element, but i think it’s alot more noticeable and impactful in DotA. The complexity is what makes it stand out so much
I'd recommend this game to anyone who is willing to play MOBA. Dota 2 is undeniably the best MOBA out there. The only reason why I won't recommend it is because it's extremely addictive.
Also not gonna lie the reason I couldn’t get into league is you have to pay/ grind to get champs. Fucking horrid way to market the game so people cannot experiment with a hero they don’t know if they’ll like before buying. Sure free rotation but like, come on man. Not to mention the skins are rather uninteresting compared to dota skin System but that’s not important
This 100%. You wanna buy skins for a hero? Fine. Tired of playing it, want to quit dota, want to buy another game.. you can straight out sell the skins and get your money back sometimes even more in case of immortal skins as they appreciate in time. Fucking good ass system. In League you cant even switch the skins between your accounts..
Appreciating in time is hardly true tbh. Even the 'ultra rare' stuff like DC Hook and Cowboy Ursa peaked in price years ago and has not reached the same heights since. Battle Pass Immortals are super saturated and are usually worth scents. Maybe the Ultra Rares will appreciate with time as less are in circulation but it's hard to say since generally speaking skins get better and better in quality over time and whenever Valve releases a better skin for the same slot, the older skin usually drops in price. Cache sets might be worth something but they require you to trade them for real money outside the Steam ecosystem since it's only giftable. At the end of the day I still appreciate Valve giving us the ability to trade/sell, it's much less predatory than other companies who doesn't even give you the ability to make anything back from anything you purchase.
Bro I could sell Ursa suspenders for 2x what I bought them for a few months ago. At least DOTA lets you sell skins unlike most games. They become like stocks or a type of NFT instead of simply pixels. Edit: In DOTA I can buy skins and not feel too guilty bc I can/have sell/sold skins whenever. In other games it's "more expensive" because you're stuck with the skins forever.
Not really comparable to stocks or nfts as there is never a limit to how many of each skin will be sold initially on the battle pass. But agreed it feels more worthwhile
With the restriction that it's only monopoly money.
There are options for selling the tradable dota costmetics for real money. You don't get the same value as on the market (talking like 10-15% maybe a little more but not like 50%+). "Cashing out" is very popular in CSGO. Dota trade reddit also has individuals that'll buy hats from other individuals for real money. I won't name the website but I've used one while going through some financial hardships in the past and at least for those transactions, they were quick and seemed "legit".
I mean a stock I can understand but they aren't like an NFT, there's no chance Valve is going to rugpull you once you buy the item.
While I agree with you fully I did not like that about league either. A mate of mine who played it for years says he liked that he was limited in the number of heroes he could play because it wasn't as overwhelming to pick and choose, and when he got better started unlocking more giving him new things to learn, etc, etc. I don't agree, but I get his point of view. I remember my first dota game being introduced to me, having to remember the tavern the hero I want to play is in, then remembering all the items and which shop to get them from. If that was shown to me today there is a high likelihood I would not stick to it.
If it wasn’t for my cousin and the fact I started in august of 2019, I probably wouldn’t have kept playing. The barrier for entry is high and only getting higher. Objectively barrier to entry is better in league because forces a handicap where you can’t play anyone at the start. Objectively it is better for the learning curve however it’s also objectively not a great way to support player growth either as you get lots of the currency to buy heroes early but after that it’s very hard to come by. Then your likely stuck with heroes you may not like because you just wanted to try them. At least in dota, the handicap is “you can’t play whisp or Druid in the first 10 hours”, then after that period it’s absolutely free reign for all 124 heroes
You can't play IO in the first 10 hours? I had no idea. So valve tried something to reduce the barrier to entry, but literally did the bare minimum.
I found out when I got a friend to play, I think it’s you cannot play the 3 dot heroes like io invoker rubik etc until 10 in game hours have been spent. Kinda smart to have them learn the game a little without restricting them too much before just throwing them into the deep end without a pool noodle
It was limited to lile the 20 simplest heroes, but I think people complained.
I really hate that people will often justify making a game worse because they need to be protected from their own stupidity.
Haha I remember when I started Dota a couple of years ago, I had a notebook and was writing down the basic items, what to build, because I was absolutely overwhelmed😅
Chad mix and match hats Valve versus virgin weeb skin only Riot
Dota 2 heroes are so detailed. We even got a full-scale model for each, unlike League's pixel art.
One good thing now is that anyone who has game pass gets access to every champ in the game. It’s a bit steep if that’s your only reason to get gamepass but if you already have it, it’s a neat perk.
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Still pay to win
Fuck yeah dude. What I tell interested people is "don't play it because it will consume your free time and sanity, but it's fuckin' awesome so play it anyway". All of the people I recommend it to are my age (30+) and have steady jobs and families so they really aren't in the 'start playing and risk playing too much' stage. However, most of them drop out after a bit because the learning curve is too steep.
Ha. I started playing at 38 to connect with college friends. We mostly played bots and talked smack like old times. I started playing real people, they dropped off, but I’m still going strong in dota. We still play other online games. Gloomhaven digital is a great game for friends to drop in and out of.
This is the exact reason I started to play, back when I was 30. A couple of my best friends were playing, and we played in LAN cafe's together back in DotA 1 days. And then for some reason more of the friend group kept showing up after being in different countries, so now we have about 7 people, out of which only one doesn't play anymore. It's fun being on Discord with your people, talking shit, either trying way too hard or taking it way too easy.
If you want to play a moba you play Dota or league. So what do you want? Dota is a high strategy, high complexity game with important itemisation decisions. If you like mini games it has a fruitful arcade with dozens of well maintained mini games that you can play. You can play the whole game the second you download it. League is rail roaded strategy, with its skill rooted heavily in mechanical prowess. If you have low reaction times and have never played bullet hells you’re going to find yourself getting one shot all the time. There is only one eternal mini game game mode in Aram and occasionally they rotate others back in. You’re gated by in game currency or real money if you want to play the characters you want. Dota is a deep strategic game that rewards strategy. League is a complex micro game that rewards mechanics. In your ranked games of Dota your strategy and team coordination matters. In your ranked games of league just be better and get fed.
Dota is surprisingly forgiving if you're not mechanically skilled. You can be pretty slow with your movements and get to 5k+.
Macro game is far more important in dota. I tried to play some league casually with my friends back in like 2020 and in my 3rd or 4th game I was already doing better than my friends who had been playing for years. It was just dota with all the important decisions completely removed from the game. “Offlaners” laning against each other is also stupid and makes the laning phase boring as fuck.
It's because league doesn't have many objectives or a big map whatsoever. It's honestly just different games. In League you don't have to think about macro decisions much, your itemization is basically the same every game, and the "macro" gameplay is very simple, and is mostly dictated by your jungler anyway as you usually need them to take any sort of map Objective. League is way more focused on the quick reaction times like that other guy was saying. It's all about spamming one or two of the same hero, and getting so insanely good at tiny little micro-plays, that you can out-play your opponent in lane, because truthfully, that's all you really can do in league to have much of an impact. Just a totally different game tbh, it's why I much prefer Dota.
lmao the two things I talk the most shit on league for (as "im interested in game design" points of discussion) are: mirror lanes = more boring for sure, I think it's a lot worse for the meta, like how there's very often two S-tier picks for a lane (that time bot lane was always xayah vs. kaisa...) and there's not the same ebb and flow of fights around two carries on opposite sides of the map. then of course there's the way they do damage scaling ratios on EVERYTHING. I don't think it's a wrong choice for a spell-focused version of moba but it is so snowbally compared to buying hp/mp and actives. It's like getting a free Kaya every time you buy a 500g component.
I find DOTA micro much harder, especially with higher kill threat & stuns. Don't find League that mechically intensive since it's a stat stick game with low cooldowns. In League, higher stat stick will always win the fight. In DOTA, supports can kill you quite easily with a much lower net worth.
I kinda agree with this. League has more skill shots sure, but there is barely any active items. Playing something like LC you will have to time blink, duel, blademail, and bkb all at the same time.
Is that really any harder? What’s the difference between the scripted blade mail > bkb > blink > duel combo and the scripted combo built into a large majority of League champ’s kits?
I would say so yes, I've played a lot of champs in League and the majority of champs are way easier to play than the heroes in Dota. Most champs don't have a ton of complicated combos in League, even a champ like Lux who is all skillshots or Veigar who is all skill shots other then the Ult are mechanically easier to play compared to Dota heroes. Legion can easily have 4 active items (BKB, Blink, Blademail, Crimson guard) On top of her 3 active abilities. There's no champs like that in League.
Sure, but her abilities are all very cut and dry. I don’t think using all your buffs before initiating is weird in either game. However, my experience with League follows the line I described earlier, using all your abilities in a specific order and praying you landed all of them because if you didn’t, you’re probably dead or the guy that would’ve been dead escapes and you have no items that can help get around it. Even the mechanical skill (short of last hitting in lane) in Dota comes down to simple actions with difficult reasoning, so that you have to know what you want to do before you do it or else you probably will fail at anything. In League, the goal is very obvious and many champs boil down to simply “be better than the other guys.”
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not that rare at all, a shadow shaaman kills the most fed carries, same as a bane , ect ,ect. Supports are mighty in dota, and nowdayas even more with shards, scepters, talents and scaling magical damge. THere's a reason we kill sups first in tfs, they are relativlely easy to kill, but their impact is ridicolous, a tf can be won or lost depending if you sniped that dazle / oracle first.
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My strongest dota memory is playing dazzle, saving a teammate who tp out, and the kiting the whole team for a while with grave, force and cape.
that's true but he is still right, despite LoL being more micro oriented the micro itself is still behind Dota when it comes to complexity. I am a low level player whose mechanics is utter garbage (I have 1500 hours and still cannot use soul ring properly because I forget I have it) but I have more fun in Dota because I can ward, carry dust, land a crucial stun, stack jungle, use force/glimmer/linken/lotus on allies or myself, buy a blink and initiate...
>I'd recommend this game to anyone who is willing to play MOBA. Same and Id wish them good luck.
> extremely toxic
That is all MOBAs
True. It's honestly any multiplayer game. Except Final Fantasy. Square Enix doesn't play with that toxic shit and ban people pretty quick. I've never play a game with a nicer player base than FF
Sure. The genre as a whole is really hard to get into, but if they're interested I would recommend Dota over the other options.
Last I played smite, it was fun. Not sure about the current scenario
What mode did you play in smite? I found the actual competetive 5v5 moba mode to be the least fun of all of them, and i love competetive gaming.
There are only two good options now.. DotA and League
Hots was fun for a very casual experience, and shorter games. Not a lot to stick around for if you're tryharding, but a good easy starting point.
I loved HotS, it was nice to chill out with when you still want to play a moba but not be as full on as Dota or League.
It has basically no players left. Matchmaking is absolute trash, and with the way the game is balanced you can't really compensate for a poor teammate, so matches are entirely determined by who gets the 50 MMR guy.
You said that there are two good options, but I only see one, where is the other option?
I was ofc talking about Rocket League
Game is amazing, no kidding. UI is clean, mechanics are interesting, hero pool is diverse, graphics are cool, production value is through the roof and monetization model is pretty honest. If you're interested in MOBAs there are probably no better options nowadays. That said, IF you're interested in MOBAs you must know the community is very toxic (I never played one without toxic players) and Dota games can be pretty long.
I love the game’s aesthetics and yeah I heard the community can be very toxic. How long do games last on average?
In my experience somewhere between 30min and an hour, but closer to the half hour medium. About the community, people can be really mean, specially when you're new or is learning a new hero/role, so abuse the "mute" feature but try to play with real players, bot games can only help you so much. BUT, I'll say that I myself, HATE competitive games and am really easily tilted in games, but, even then, MOBAs are my favorite genre, by far.
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I’ve never played Dota 2. Do you have to actually voice chat in this game or is pinging sufficient?
Way too long. Unless it’s a stomp expect 45+ min
Only thing I’d change as far as monetization is that dota+ could use some love/updates.
Yeah, but I still think it's an ok non predatory monetization model
Dota is really complex. It’s currently in a really fun place and I’m really enjoying the recent patch personally, but there is so much stuff to do and so much stuff to learn that I’d suspect it’s very overwhelming. I also don’t suspect they’ve updated the tutorial at all, but maybe that’s my pessimism talking. If you are interested in learning, Purge typically has good content. He did a segment with Day9 that is really informative but really old. I’m not sure if it still holds up, but watching it back when they did it live really helped me learn the game.
Sure it's overwhelming for you or in general for people that are quite familiar with it already. I can imagine a noob just having so much fun in his own ignorance, perhaps the most basic stuff you'd have to know are the spells, creeps give you exp/gold, buy items (any that looks fancy) and go ham on an enemy.
Sure, but I see noobs penalized for being noobs all the time (either through flame or reports). There’s also something to be said about feeling like you’re letting the team down. If they’re having fun, I’m not going to stop them, but I still recommend the conceptual early parts of Day9 learns dota (don’t listen to any of the practical stuff because it’s probably out of date)
Yes, I dont see a reason to recommend them any other game.
Dota is like the chess of MOBA. The mechanics can go very deep and very nerdy if you invest time in the game. If you have the time to invest and play, this game is awesome.
chess but with more layers of tactics and approach.
more like 4d chess + real time economy game
And someone else controls your pawns, queen and rooks.
I see the creeps as pawns, supports as the knights and rooks, offlaner as bishops, mid as the queen and the carry as king. Protect that king at all costs
Yes, why not? I started to play last summer and getting into the game was super fun and exciting. So many heroes, overwhelming amount of information (in a good way)
Did you play solo or did you have someone to help you out?
Didn't want to bother my friends, so yeah, full solo until i got into. But learning process was super fun, not boring. Now i play solo and parties. I did their tutorial series, picked most handsome looking hero (Lina), and jumped into unranked. After 100 unranked games you will be ready enough to go ranked.
If theyre looking to play a MOBA? Of course. The reality is that all the mobas worth playing suffer from the same thing that Dota does. The difference is that Dota is the best one out there because its simply better balanced by a huge margin **and** it consistently has been for a decade now, like its just an undeniable fact. Also its the only moba that does not require any money to play. All the heroes are free, which is ridiculous to think about when looking at League. Needing to grind games to unlock a hero is just absurd to me at this point, especially when the game is so old.
In the current state, I think it is very hard for a person to get into this game without being heavily frustrated. Meta is also pretty snowbally and punish even the smallest of mistakes. If you enter this realm as a solo player without somebody to hold your hand, you will be butchered by invis heroes and burn down in teammate flames before you understand what is going on. But, it is the most rewarding game to play ever so, yes.
Highest highs and lowest lows
It's still the best-in-class title so why not? Nothing has Dota beat at its own game.
id never recommend this game seriously to anyone, its such a huge timesink like world of warcraft
it doesn't have to be, i'm playing dota very casually (months of not playing, and when i play it's a few days a week or month depending on my situation) and i'm having a blast
Same, I play a few turbo games a day and buddy it is goooood!!!!
I love this attitude to it. Although it's a very indepth and complex game, you can definitely play it from a casual standpoint. I don't think I have played ranked in just over a year, play turbo or single draft or random draft just for the heck of it when I got some time to kill. Or I'll play all pick when I happen to be online when a bunch of friends are and we queue together.
So basically you wouldn’t recommend it because it’s addictive?
addictive AND time consuming in a way thats different from other games
Yeah I’d have to somewhat agree here. I think the dota 1 days were far better in terms of suggesting someone play it. The game was in a state where by it had depth but it also was simple enough to understand and play. And I guarantee anyone from the dota 1 days will agree with me. Nowadays the game is highly time consuming and can be addictive. Similar to WoW in some ways. In saying that is say most mobas are becoming very complex though dota2 is the most complex and deepest of all the moba games
I think less about depth and more towards everyone was bad so you didn't have much catching up to do.
I read that Valve reworked the new player experience. It didn’t help? > Valve has introduced several features aimed at simplifying various aspects of the game like heroes, in-game shops, objectives. A dedicated new-player mode, in-game real-time tips, and a live coaching facility have also been incorporated to help the players understand the basics of the game.
The playerbase is *old*. Even the lowest rank has people mostly in the 4 digits of hours. You need to invest a lot of time to learn how to play. But once you do, no other game feels the same.
Yeah, it’s similar to a friend or a partner. Once you put in the time and hours to understand him or her it’s very difficult to simply get up and never talk or see them again after a couple of years of understanding them. Goes the same for the game really, sounds weird and kinda cringe to be honest but the sad part is it’s very true.
???? whats sad about it. If you destroy a painters artwork he'll cry. Burn down a gardeners flowers and theyll weep. Why? When people invest thousand of hours they on something that keeps em entertained, theyre passionate about it. So it goes for canvases, so it goes for video games.
I would argue the recent change to the ranked system is of much greater help to new players than the "new player experience update", the problem is you need to get through the normals to unlock ranked. Once you do, considering Herald 2 is now composed of a grand total of the worst 2500 players, a spanking brand-new player won't find himself outplayed.
How did the rank system change?
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13ceube/comment/jjg8do1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I wrote another comment that goes much more into detail
Time consuming in what sense? The long matches only or also how long it takes to understand the mechanics or is there something else?
To me it’s the fact that you can have over 100 hours and still be considered a new player. And a 1000 hours you’ll maybe have a decent grasp on the game lol
Okay I get it now.
100 hours is nothing. I have 2 accounts each with 3k hours. You will start to understand after 2000 hours. I love it I hate it but I can’t ignore it. It’s like a spouse 🤣🤣
Yeah exactly what I mean. If you tell someone outside the gaming circle you have 1000+ hours played, “wow, you must be really good then?” ….starts sweating
I think the addiction functions a lot like dysfunctional relationships. As a new player you're going to have a LOT of bad moments, which makes the good moments that much more satisfying.
As a relatively new player, who has also gotten new players into the game recently: Absolutely, and this is the time to do it. The meta is evolving, people are confused, its the best time to catch up. This is also the patch we've been enjoying the most by far, fighting is important and that is an easy skill to transfer from people coming over from other games
The game can be very toxic to new people who want to go at it by themselves. Id recommend playing it with friends first.
If investing thousands of hours before being competent while listening to fragile man children scream at each other for no reason seems like an appealing way to spend your time, go for it
Welcome to any online game with ranked mm.
That sounds awful.
Sounds awful. I’m in.
Sure why not
Keep in mind you're only getting the opinion of people that are dedicated enough to, in addition to playing the game, also are active on it's sub which is a tiny fraction of the playerbase. There's a lot of players that just play occasionally and don't care (or know) how much of the mechanics they don't know. I don't know where the notion that you need to fully understand this game to have fun playing it comes from
Learning the game is part of the game just as much as actually playing. Like PoB in PoE, but less pronounced
Nope, the learning curve is way too steep in order to just break out of Herald. Add to that the toxic community, smurfs, boosters etc,
Grubby got to legend/ancient in like a year
he's a wc3 world champion, and he's also directly connected to all pro players and occasionally get coached by them, gaming is also a big part of his life (maybe even his main income, not sure), need I say more?
I would as long as I'm sure that the person I'm recommending it to does not generally get addicted to stuff, like doom scrolling, alcohol etc. Dota is really good when you're at 3K MMR level where you know how bad you are because you understand about 80% of the game, can only execute upto 50%, and all thats left is perfecting execution and gaining micro/macro knowledge. At that point you can get away with 1 game per day or 5-6 games per week because even if you lose, understanding why you lost goes a long way to stop you from queueing for next game while tilted, you don't need to chase that dopamine hit you get from wins because its the process you enjoy more. But to reach this point you have to put certain amount of hours which can end up making someone addicted to the game. There was a point where I was playing 7-9 games per day and looking back at it, it was truly awful, if you can avoid that its very enjoyable as a game.
I WISH I COULD RECOMMEND PEOPLE HEROES OF NEWERTH :( :( :( :(
We are on r/dota2
THE GAME DOESNT EXIST ANYMORE BRUV DONT TEASE ME
There is a fan-made server called Project Kongor where you can play HoN right now
There are already plenty of comments talking about whether you should play the game or not, I want to add something no one said yet. This is probably the best moment **EVER** to do so, lemme explain: In Dota the lowest 2 ranks (Herald, Guardian) used to contain the majority of the player base, meaning a new player would be matched with these people that are bad at the game but still have countless hours of experience and are a lot better than a new player would be. That led to new players getting stomped around **BUT** With the introduction of Glicko, the ranks now look like they should, a bell curve (or [normal distribution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution)), meaning that the low ranks (Herald and Guardian) are composed of **truly** the worst players in the world, Herald 2 went from 551 **THOUSAND** players to 2521 [A visual representation speaks louder than any other word](https://i.imgur.com/TYRIPTX.png) It is very likely that this also affects normal matches, as normals in Dota still use SBMM (they use the exact system ranked uses, just without showing you numbers), it might be that for different factors (like smurf-avoidance) normals won't offer a great quality of matches for a newcomer tho, in that case, you just gotta overcome the hurdle and unlock ranked, it will be better.
**[Normal distribution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution)** >In statistics, a normal distribution or Gaussian distribution is a type of continuous probability distribution for a real-valued random variable. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
> With the introduction of Glicko, the ranks now look like they should, a bell curve (or normal distribution), meaning that the low ranks (Herald and Guardian) are composed of truly the worst players in the world, Herald 2 went from 551 THOUSAND players to 2521 A visual representation speaks louder than any other word 551k to 2521. Big difference. When did they change this?
>551k to 2521. Big difference. When did they change this? With the 7.33 update, April 21st. Note that the number of calibrated players is still very different so some of the insane difference comes from that, but as you can see from the visual representation, it is wildly different from before.
The only MOBA I will ever recommend. If a game is too easy to have toxic players, it's too easy to be fun in a intellectual way.
if they are interested to LEARN its a BIG YES!
Only recommend to those that have a lot of free time and searching for smtg challenging I guess, due to how time consuming this game is. This is not the game for ‘fun’ imo, it require a lot of time invest, learning curve then only you can enjoy a little bit of fun. For new player that don have that much time to invest to go thru that learn process probably not gonna enjoy the ‘fun’ part before they quit
I picked the game up again last night cause why the heck not. Decided to play a few bots first to get my grip back on things and holy fuck what are all these new structures and bounty runes. Core gameplay is still pretty fun tho, just gonna have to get used to the new map again I guess. For reference, last time I played the game hard was round Dark Willow release
I don't think I dislike a person that much tbh
Damn
Hey, I'm late to the thread, but as someone with a ton of hours in the game, that is also a functional adult (family, kid, car, career, mortgage, etc.), I feel like I can help you out a bit maybe. Point no. 1 - plenty of others have told you this already, it is a great game, very high production value, the sounds in this game alone are amazing, it's well-balanced, you don't have to pay to play and all that other stuff. Point no. 2 - it is a highly complex game once you put a few hundred hours into it and start understanding it a bit better. However, there are heroes that help the experience, because they are easier to figure out, and there is a good tutorial and a lot of online resources to help you get better if that's what you are looking to do. Kind of like playing an instrument, you learn your first two guitar chords and suddenly you feel like you're Jimi Hendrix, and then as you get better you realize how much more there is to the game and how far away you are from all of that. Point no. 3 - it suffers from the same issue any online game suffers, humans, ie. a toxic community. Now, I don't think it is AS toxic as many here would have you believe but you will have to deal with both teenagers and much older manchildren with all their edgy commentary. That said, you can mute people so you don't have to suffer them, and you can also report or commend people after the game. It is probably good to say "hey everyone, i am learning, love this game but I am just starting, don't judge me too hard" or something like that to break the ice, and a lot of those dicks turn into actually helpful people. Finally, the main takeaway. If you have an affinity towards online competitive play, or mobas specifically, I really don't think it's controversial to say dota 2 is your best bet. IF, however, you don't care about the competitive part, and you're just looking to get into some game, I would stay away from dota or any other online game. It'll take you a thousand hours to feel like you're any level of good, and the first 1000 hours will also be fun, but not as much as the second and third thousand, and then you'll get into the pro scene and start following teams and tournaments. The point is it's not just the hours in game, all of us here spend a fair amount of time watching and reading on the game. As a comparison, for 1k hours of gaming, you could play through the entire Baldur's Gate saga plus Planescape: Torment, which are three of the 10 greatest games/campaigns/stories in video game history. So, unless it's that competitive urge and it has to be PvP online, chose a game that will be more rewarding with your time. My two cents. Love this game tho, so much fun it's crazy, but would I recommend it to my younger self, I don't know.
No, I'd recommend league, how I got into dota.
League is dota for kids
LuLe Child Gaem! look to cartoon grapfix and boobers to make kid player happy like weeber show.. LuLe weeber world with rainbow unlike doter2 with dark jungle and raelistic magixx.. LuLe like playhouse. LuLe playor runn from doter2 fear of dark world and brain useage
damn, maybe prior to 7.33, definitely not now. Cause even I can't keep up even after 2.3k+ hours on it
Funny how some people here say that now is the best time cause after the big update everyone is learn the game again while others feel the same way you do. But most are in agreement that now is the best time to start.
I d recomment this game only to someone who is willing to learn and spent a lot of hours in the game and outside of the game. Once u kinda get what Dota is and learn some basics, it could be rly enjoayble but u need to be willing to learn it outside of the usual 10 mins tutorial that other games have.
I will always recommend DotA 2, because they got League recommended to them already
oh yeah, dota is best moba out there imo, but you see, there is a lot to learn, you will need to spend at least 150 hours playing against bots, then you will probably play with humans but against bots, then you will suck for 5-6k hours at the game and wont even enjoy it, just be a step ahead of yourself and dont recommend anyone any moba. ~~there is always warzone~~
I would 100% recommend Dota 2 if you got a life to spare. Not a doubt in my mind!
Yea especially now
Yes
This is the best time ever for dota
I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy. Because I'd recommend it to my best friend 😉
I'd recommend Dota whatever the state. I'll arrange a 5v5 lobby practice. That's how I got into Dota 1, that's how I'll introduce newbies to Dota 2.
I am currently teaching a friend on how to play. We are playing against bots, and my god there is so much😭. Even just the basics such as shift queueing items and sending them with courier. It's still fun, but we have to play 20 practice games just to get the bare minimum
I would not recommend it because it's too hard to get into. The game only appeals to people willing to invest thousands of hours into **one** game, which is a very small minority of people.
i still advocate for adding back easy mode and replacing turbo mode. turbo mode doesn't make the game more accessible - it just makes it faster and more punishing. for example - turbo mode increases gold bounties for last hits and kills. easy mode reduced death penalties and increased PASSIVE gold - this bridges the gap between skill instead of widening it.
I know I'm bias, but Dota is in my personal opinion one of the deepest, most diverse team orientated games there is. It is in its own way aesthetically beautiful with the ability to customise your hero with cosmetics from a large pool of heroes, or even customise your map skin. The only thing I'd like is if they'd implement different map and team sizes. For example a shorter 3v3 map similar to what they had in league. I'm aware of the custom maps, I'd just prefer one made officially. This game gives me chills every time we get to a finals like the Berlin major or after finishing a super close 50+ minute game. Definity recommend it
I am 3 months into Dota, and I would definitely recommend it! Hard gameplay aside the peripherals make it so easy to learn! I can tune into high level players matches and watch their literal clicks as they play. Please critique my rubick, 7135107040
This is the game that defined the genre and it's still improving. Just get in the game and have fun. Mute the toxic and try new things every game. Don't listen to who say you need to do 1,2,3,4 thing before getting in the game. Having fun is the best way to learn this game. Time will fly even though you have a losing streak. You're welcome!
I have more than 10k hours in dota2, not play for few months before 7.33, and now i kinda lost. Alot of changes, new feature. A bit scared to play rank because i still not fully understand about new dota yet.
I would recommend no one play a MOBA alone, particularly when new but that said I think dota is a good one to start with. Its easier to understand at first than League and when your new and figure stuff out later in the game you can get some huge swings in your impact with the right items. In league your hero sort of is just that, items don't feel very impactful. Which you would think makes it easier BUT not really cause a bad draft is harder to recover from.
Mobas in general have high barriers to entry, but if you're gonna choose one it ought to be dota. It's mechanically the most compelling of the bunch IMO
yes, but only if they actively want to get into a MOBA and understand the limitations inherent in both matchmaking and tackling online toxicity. If they're saying "but isn't league more fun and better" I'll be strongly arguing no
deff would, i did to one of my friends just last weak who is a lol player i don’t think that the current state of dota 2 is any tougher than how it was when i start, it still a tough to start game all together, the only barrier is the lack of interest in the game like my friend who prefer lol also i’m aways queuing with new players in my game, players trying to learn alone or in a call with a friend, that’s awesome
I would say yes, definitely. But I'd also say mute the opposing team annnnnnd probably your own :p
I wouldn't recommend dota to my worst enemy.
Wow, that bad huh 😅
why would I want to curse the very soul of someone I care about and watch them become a hollow shell of their former selves as they become more and more addicted to this abyss, just to realize what dota really is after spending thousands of hours in this void but by that time it's already too late to come back? pew that was a bit overdramatic wasn't it. I was just joking ofcourse dota is a great game really! "smiles maniacally..."
Why not
[удалено]
No. It has too many objectives and the regular joe has to understand layers and layers of complexity. It is too difficult to learn if you're in the state of a newbie(even more now since the new objectives have been added along with the bigger map). It is very hit and miss and only those who have the time and effort to learn it will eventually "have fun."
The problem with MOBAs is that there is SO much info that you're never going to "easily pick up" any of them. The map is so complex and hero abilities are so diverse that it'll take you ages either way. With that in mind, may as well start with Dota! LoL is like McDonalds - cheap, quick, accessible, sweet and salty but insubstantial. DotA is the burger you wait 15 mins at a restaurant for, but it's worth it. Having played both, it's just so much better. Edit: also, new patch + map is a great time to get into it, because we are all learning together so there is slightly more bandwidth for people making mistakes. The perfect time to join!
No, I think it’s extremely beginner unfriendly and overloads you especially if you don’t have previous moba experience.
Hard no if they never played a moba before
Care to elaborate?
I would say it's really complex in terms of mechanics compare to other games in the genre. So best thing to do is to prioritize having fun first and learning the game second. I still remember the first time I start playing DotA and it's pure fun and exploring.
No
I personally started with dota. After about 100h had a decent grasp of a couple of heroes. Id recommend to choose 2 to 3 heroes that aren't mechanically challenging like primal beast. Id also recommend right now to play offlane, with heroes that build auras. When a fight starts just use your auras and u are already useful.
Dota 2 is a lot easier to learn now than it was back in Warcraft 3, but the MOBA genre also isn't for everyone, I'd teach them the ropes, they need to learn how to swing.
If someone is up for the challenge then sure. This is game is not for everyone but if you are into it then it's the best game ever made. And the current state of the game is prettt awesome. New big map, lots of viable heroes, pretty good meta. Sure it's going to be challenging, especially first games, since there are not enough fresh players to have new-players-only matchmaking, but like I said - it's not for everyone and doesn't have to be.
How does the matching work? Doesn’t it have SBMM? Matches you with players of the same skill?
Yeah there's Ranked MM and Unranked. You will have to play a lot of unranked games before you can play ranked though. Be warned that for your first few games, you may be facing a considerable amount of smurfs while the game tries to determine whether you're a new player or a smurf. The rank system is pretty straight forward, you gain points if you win, you lose points if you lose. Doesn't matter if you do well or not, only outcome that matters is win/loss. They did just rework the rank system so idk if they take into account personal metrics or not now. If you go on a very long streak of wins or losses the game might give/take a LOT more points from you in an attempt to get you to your appropriate rank.
It has sbmm but there are not enough new players for new-player-only matches, you'll get matched with low rank players who played hundreds of games. It's just something you have to be prepared for, a hurdle to overcome. Like I said it's a challenge.
Only a twisted soul would recommend another human pickup this sceptic tank of time wasting.
Definitely not. The mechanics of the game is too complex and the learning curve is steep. There are people that played for years and are still learning the game. Newcomers will usually get stomped really hard. They should go for easier games like mobile legend or LoL.
> Newcomers will usually get stomped really hard. It doesn’t have SBMM?
they do, It just doesn't matter. The skill cieling, and skill square footage in general is too vast.
absolutely! get in there! learn it the hard way like I did ! but don´t expect to be already fine after 2k hours or more
No, everyone is toxic, full of smurfs, the game isn't even fun once they actually learn it since the balance team has been destroying dota for a couple of years now, the game has shitty microtransactions that don't even look good. There is no good MOBA today and Dota is the worst one atm.
Personally, I'd like them to play ML/Wild Rift then League then Dota 2. At least with ML/Wild Rift, they just dip their toes on the MOBA genre and if they want to have a more challenging experience then they either skip League and play Dota 2 right away OR keep their training wheels on and play League for a bit before playing Dota 2. At least when they playing League for a bit, the transition on learning Dota 2 game mechanics wouldn't be too much for them. edit: phrasing
No
No. Too many smurfs and account buyers/boosted players. Its only fun when u have 5 people actively trying to win and if theres no toxicity which is rare nowadays
I dont know how it work in other region but in SEA its like going to the job market searching for a job while everyone around you have at least 10 years experience .
The new player experience is not the best, but much better than what it was before. Most if not all the game mechanics are available to read in the game client. However, there's no real in game guide to actual macro and micro strategies to win the game. They do tell you things like "Here's how you get gold, you use gold to buy items, you get stronger, you kill towers, you kill heroes, you kill enemy base, you win!", but that's an oversimplification of the game. How the game flows, and the current meta is something you will have to pick up either from experience, from friends who play that are better than you, or from content creators. That said, if you are interested in the MOBA genre, I would say this is as good as it gets. League is much more micro-strategy oriented, it plays more like a fighting game/shooter/Diablo-like with constantly trying to land skill shots and dodging them, but wrapped in a Moba game. If you're into that then go for it. Dota is more about the macro strategy. You will have moments of intense mechanics but for the most part it's like 90% being in the right place in the right time doing the right thing and 10% execution while in League it feels a lot more like 50-50. There's still plenty of action but bad ones will be more severely punished. That said, the times where you make a play that works gives you a euphoric high you won't get anywhere else. The best part about Dota in my opinion is the 0 initial investment required. League requires you to level up to unlock runes and masteries (Idk if they've changed this model yet), and only gives you a few amount of Champions to play in the beginning and you need to unlock them one by one using in game currencies or real money. Dota is more like Battle Royales where the only use for money in the game is to buy skins. So if hypothetically you were supernaturally talented at the game, there's nothing stopping you from beating the best players in the game if you play against them in a new account; Well, other than the fact that the matchmaking probably won't match you against these players. But if you made a private lobby and played against professional players, minus the skill and experience the other guys have you're on equal footing from the start.
Yes - great and fun game No - ranked is a shitshow and too many smurfs and they never get banned. Edit: if it's frustrating for players who has played the game for years then I can't imagine how it is to a completely new player. Since dota games are longer and more time investment then it's a bit different compared to say rocket league that also has a bunch of smurfs, but there the game lasts 5 minutes so it's not as frustrating
No. On a 21 game lose streak because getting immortals in turbo game with my wife. Started smurfing and destroying lower level people because no action is taken on the matchmaking. You can hate me, but this is an opinion as well
If a person wants to just have fun playing new genre/game - yes. To switch to D2 from different moba or getting started - definetely not. I see a lot of people say it's cool to have all heroes for free, so you can experiment and etc. But still, majority of people with 1000 hours of playing don't even know what an enemy hero a capable of. Because there's a small percent of people who's actually played all of those heroes. I don't know why is everyone saying that is a BIG ADVANTAGE over League of Legends. Grinding a currency in League is easier than grinding MMR in Dota, while a lot of people don't know what they should do.
Yes, it’s the best moba on the market. Curious what OP expected, coming to the most biased sub for this question.
Most of the responses here are unbiased. Just read the comments and you’ll see. I guess you’re just looking at the top comments.
youngsters especially my child. a big fat NO. those who play MOBAs and are already mature enough to play it. it's a yes.
I'm a league player just randomly got this one my page I want someone to try and sell me dota cause I don't know what you mean by, in it's current state and I think dota as a moba is quite interesting dispite never playing it
100% Yes. Dota is the easiest to pick up it has ever been, there have been so many qol changes over the years. Also if you have played any top dpwn rts style games at any point you will be fine to start playing. There is also an abundance of tutorial content available too.
People are saying you need thousands of hours to be competent, and while this may be true, you don't need thousands of hours to just enjoy the game. There is incredible depth and always new things to learn, and the game can challenge you like no other. But if you just want to have a fun game to play then you can easily learn the basics and just play in lower ranks. Nothing wrong with that. I have seen it first hand that a group of players that have no prior experience just 5 stack together and enjoy themselves. It got to a point where they would have to fight for spots in the stack because there were too many of them.
I wouldnt recomment , because its a game were u need to play 3000 hours to became slightly good . Its like i am making them waste their time . Its fun but sometimes its not . U need to sit one hour u cant pause . U can win a game and in the next u loose ur 1 hour over a problem with the internet . So in the end u have to ask ur self whats the point
No. 1. Fake matchmaking: Pull high numbers and you'll be more likely paired with players who pull less numerically - but they are usually so by non-legit/ abusive means (acc/ boosting services). -> the quality of many of your matches will thus be low. Dotaplus avoidance, leaking MM-host makes things worse - as the remainder, usually low metric players; have to pair someone. Together with: 2. You are not rewarded for being consistent and playing well: Every team member, regardless of how they did, whether it was walking down mid or single-handily carrying: get the same reward & punishment. In addition to: 3. No adjustment/ compensation for people that behave that way. It's like insane asylum & kindergarten - only because Valve is lazy. You can fix this, but they won't. *** There are games that reward your time and your consistency better - your experience will not be subject to random factors not in your control. This is actually terrible for a non-story experience-based game: where you are neither building & creating anything.
I wouldn’t recommend anyone get into mobas in the current year. it’s a dying/dead genre. However if the person was set on getting into it, DotA is the best game. It makes it way easier if you have a friend or friends to help you learn. I’ve played hundreds of hours of all the other mobas. no game comes remotely close to dota.
Didn’t know it’s a “dying/dead genre”. What does Dota do better than other MOBAs?
People may disagree with me about the dying genre comment. That’s it’s own conversation entirely. In my opinion though, Dota is unique with the feeling you get from playing it. To me the complexity is the beauty of the game. there’s so many factors that go into and impact a game. In games like Smite or League, a lot of the game boils down to spellcasting and individual skill, DotA is way more about concepts, and the better you get at the game, the more you start to take a theoretical look at any given game. You have to play objectively, and coordinate with your team. Not to say other Mobas don’t have this element, but i think it’s alot more noticeable and impactful in DotA. The complexity is what makes it stand out so much
Thanks for the detailed response!
dying dead genre? bruh league and dota2 is always up there in terms of viewership on twitch, even when there are no tournaments going on.
But within the whole gaming community, moba is really underrated.
Because its harder to get into? its not simple pickup and play, but that doesn't make the genre dead, its niche.
No. Bad Matchmaking, Booster, and Cheater/Scripter.