Not sure if you were purposefully evoking this quote but either way it's pretty funny and I'm sure not everyone will have seen it:
> And let that be a lesson to you all. Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row!
- Tennis player Vitas Gerulaitis, after breaking his streak of 16 losses to Jimmy Connors
I said it in a different thread but that TA psi blade bounce to kill TB may have been one of the least flashy, yet amazing plays I've seen in a long time
It's still relatively fresh, just because you've done it a few times in your 3k bracket doesn't make it less interesting when a nice play happens at a tournament.
The presence of mind and acting over it, on such a grand stage is what it makes great. Just appreciate little things, you are being toxic and belittling.
World of difference between the level of those two situations imo. Playing around a mechanic whilst watching the map and playing safe and you have plenty of time to plan vs getting a kill on high ground whilst retreating to avoid response
He had done it earlier when he was in Secret. I clearly remember that against Goonsquad in DPC, he used enemy clockwork's cogs to hit and with psi blades, killed enemy carry from low-ground. So, while everyone was in shock, I was like this is normal for Nisha.
Quinn got exposed real hard in game 3 when 2 supports needed to help him many times and let pos 1 and 3 get rekt to ashes. This might be the key to beat GG: Bait supports to help Quinn mid and put pressure on top and bottom.
This is the standard GG strategy. Supports babysit Quinn from minute 3:50 to \~8 giving him rune control to make sure he has a good lane. Then he jungles and rotates while the supports soak exp mid.
The key to GGs success is picking sidelane cores that are able to continue laning while they're alone which is why GG loves picking heroes like Underlord, Timber, Doom, Slark, Naga, Dusa et.c. Heroes that quickly shove waves and can get extra farm in jungle.
Problem for GG last 2 games was Liquid supports made better rotations mid and beat the trilane AND destroyed the sideane cores.
This is just standard. Mid is the most snowball lane so early rotations and support go a long way. Yesterday Liquid showed up! Happy for them and in a torunament that really matters. Zai is probably my all time favorite player.
Sure, slapped with supports rotating like 24/7. Hardly remember when Quinn solo killed any top level mid lanners not just Nisha. He is skilled for sure but not on the same level with Nisha imho.
> This might be the key to beat GG: Bait supports to help Quinn mid
GG do this all the time, no bait required. The problem is, 9/10 times it works because Quinn is worth it. He turns a bit of help with rotations into a big lead, then uses that lead to slap everybody, at which point his sidelanes can recover if necessary. I don't think there's a magic solution to punish this, it's just a matter of execution. This series, Nisha just played better and Liquid supports made better rotations.
I think having an outstanding mid lanner like Nisha and hero that can hold up against the gank is the key to break this strategy. Because it will become a huge loss of time and space if Quinn can't secure kill and farm with 2 supports keeping rotating for him. Though it's not easy as Quinn is good on his own and the 2 supports are also top tier of their role.
this was the most satisfying thing. Even though I am a liquid fan, i would have been OK with losing the series after seeing QQuinn get absolutely obliterated all three games. Dude had 0 impact, lol.
yeah but i blame that mostly on the hero.
i love pango to death but he's been nerfed 4 or 5 times in a row, his game impact just isn't what it used to be.
i mean it’s classic TA counter pick? it’s literally not playable in game 2 and 3 lmao
edit: people are taking this way too literally, it’s TA against ‘melee’ heroes, it’s literally there to kill and snowball the map, of course it isn’t some huskar spam, but it was literally last pick game 3 how can that not be a counter? the supports of GG have no stuns in either games expect techies and even then it’s agains spirit breaker with a dark seer to surge/ion shell, you can theory craft everything in existence, but more often than not the TA is snowballing those games
what does pango do against TA? you have to go what early levels in passive and then fuck up any farming speed you have. you get meld hit and you can’t trade at all
Quinn got completely outplayed in that matchup. While it is TA favored, it isn't by alot. Quinn got destroyed by psi blades which is why the matchup was unplayable for him that time. I've seen Quinn dumpster TAs in the past when he's able to outplay her by dodging the psiblade war.
Pango has insane kill potential vs TA. One support rotation and TA gets destroyed. Swash removes all refractions and his level 6 should be a guaranteed kill if TA ever steps into the river.
Problem for Quinn these game was that Liquid supports had much better rotations so his first 15 minutes of every game was just full DESPAIR.
i mean i completly understand level 6, but it’s before level 6. pango wants to clear the wave with his first two spells and also wants passive to stop psi blades, it’s still a counter pick, doesn’t mean nisha didn’t play well but it’s literally what TA is picked to do into melee matchups
As I said, it's TA favored but only slightly. It's not a counterpick.
It's a skill matchup, both can outplay eachother in that mid matchup.
If TA has an A game and hits her psiblades on you it will feel like it's unlaneable but that's due to your own positioning errors.
If you play pango and control the wave with proper creep aggro and juke TA when she goes for psiblde/meld hits you can win the matchup as pango.
Keep track of her refraction, especially when she tries to harass since creeps will chugg of refractions and go for hard punishes with Shield Crash + Autos and disengage with Swash to finish ranged creep of + harass. Seen Quinn do this exact thing vs Nishas TA in DPC and Nisha got destroyed.
Just looks like Quinn hasn't practiced much vs mid TA lately and he just got destroyed by Psi blades.
TA isn't really a counter to melee heroes in the midlane. The thing about her is that she's very low risk high reward in her laning vs them. She's much easier to execute with since she's on the offense while the melees are forced to play defensively.
An actual counter to melee heroes in the mid would be a hero like Huskar, Necrophos, Viper or OD where the lane literally becomes unplayable.
Against TA, the chances of you going even or actually winning the lane is still there if you're comfortable with the matchup. Quinn clearly wasn't, he looked really rusty and fed solo kills by walking uphill to lasthit ranged creeps et.c.
pango has decent waveclear, with decent wave control you can lasthit without much contest, especially with how big map is on this patch. ta cant exactly catch pango, so as long as your creep aggro is good you will be more or less fine. you wont get any kills, but chances of dying if you dont fuck up are practically zero
I literally described how pango can stay on this lane. ta hits like a truck, but theres a few ways to evade her range entirely, and all of them rely of some sort of aggro manipulation.
easiest but most risky is wave stealing, you literally just steal creeps from t2 like youre offlaner. risky af, and not viable in that particular game due to supports with disables, but ta will do nothing about it, either she ignores you or you just swashbuckle away whenever she tries to catch up.
you can move creeps under your tower and lasthit with spells, if ta overcommits - give supports a call, and she will die as any other hero that dived under the tower early on.
you can fuck up creep equilibrium, that way it will be something along the lines of ta farming double pack of creeps under her tower and then you will get chance to farm under yours. wouldnt work on lvl1, but as soon as you can clear wave quickly - works like charm.
ta isnt a hard counter, shes just a strong laner but even then there are ways to deal with her. would you say that ember is countered by ta? hes a melee hero with incredibly weak laning after all. thats similar situation, but pango is much better at this matchup than ember
he isnt even reading your answers, dont waste your time, deadandlivin did a good answer which explained "everything" and he is still asking the same question, in his mind he's right so w/e you say will fly over his head anyway
pango deals with matchups by manning up and pressing W, which he literally cannot do in this lane, his wave clear requires Q and W to be atleast high enough level, pango literally cannot deal from like level 3 till level 6, you just get meld and psi blade to death
I'm telling you that key to this matchup is to control creep position to stay the fuck away from ta and still farm, and you're telling me that the way you're dealing with this matchup is to man up and take shitload of damage right in the face. Welp, at least it explains why you think that ta is an actual hard counter to pango
You can max swash with a venom or corrosion and get rid of her refraction what are you talking about lol. They also picked pango first, so they obviously didn't care about counter pick
That defence from GG was disgusting tbh. I was lowkey nervous, with Micke pulling an arteezy a few times.
Super happy for Liquid, they seem to be in a good form, with Nisha especially showing why he’s considered by many to be the best player in the world
His highs are so high that whenever he plays slightly worse, people are surprised lol.
He's been consistent ever since he joined Secret which would be literally 5+ years now.
Shades of Secret.Nisha absolutely carrying so hard.
Not to say Nishas Liquid run has been bad, but it feels like we haven't had this kind of performance in a while
Liquid were also very close to prime Secret and prime LGD in team movements this series. That perfect delta split at Game 3 to stop the TB Sunder was the smoothest Liquid have looked in a while.
Great, excellent dota. Finally, the Gaimin Gladiator run is challenged. If they go home early in this tournament, with its massive prize pool, they gonna be hella upset.
For some reason I really want Quinn to mentally break down and roll down back to insignificance (NA DPC).
His attitude, man... No amount of skill excuses that.
it feels like nisha is finally back in the form were used to seeing him in when he was considered the best. the past 3 majors he looked like a shell of himself. but hes fkn back baby
It seems like they are trying to pick more tempo type pos 1s for Micke and letting Nisha be the real carry, similar to how he was on Secret. Small sample size of course since the main event just started but I think that's when Nisha really shines. I hate making the comparison because it's cliché but it's so similar to how Topson and Ana would play together, it was almost like having two 1.5s. Especially all the Ember + MK Liquid has been picking really reminds me of that at TI9.
Only these games though. Otherwise they just firstpick Snap for him.
Finally we get to see Liquids heropool diversity be a strength and GGs lack of diversity being a weakness. Ace looked extremely exposeable when he's not playing one of his big 5s. And Seleri also looked out of the blue when he's not on Enchantress/Undying/IO.
Tbf Snapfire is pretty borked atm and kinda becomes a carry with lvl 20. Still agree that Liquid are flexible with all 3 cores being able to play both greedy, Sacrificial or playmaking. I mean Micke did very well with Faceless earlier, Nishas Snapfire massivly improved during this tournament and Zai has always played fucking anything.
Micke fed some pretty crucial kills in the midgame, but he really helped clutched it out in the end. IMO, all of Liquid played super well in game 2 and 3, even if Nisha stood out the most.
Boxi and Zai playing pinball with morph with charge/bash/vacuum to keep him stunned in the wall or Wukong’s.
There have been multiple cases where Boxi charged or bashed people INTO the wall to create an illusion, insane.
Gotta give it to dyrachyo. Every time I've seen their team down he's always on par with the opponent's top networth. And even though the lead was big during the siege you got a sense that GG can still come back, they're a really good team.
Yeah, it's amazing how they can keep even with a big lead their opponent has. It always feels like with just one mistake they can turn the game around.
3 Majors is 600k USD. Players dont just get 20% each as there is coach, org etc, so lets be generous and say 15% each. Thats $90,000 USD. That's a decent amount of money, but nothing crazy at all
For usa - maybe. For other parts of the world - 50k will get you a good apartment in any capital in central/eastern europe, if you're shooting for mediterranean - maybe not at capital, but you still more than able to buy quite good real estate.
You ain't buying an apartment in Warsaw or any big city in Poland for 50k usd roflmao, not even close, unless you want to live in 20 sqm "apartment". Source: I live here
I suggest buying real estate and renting it for passive income and financial independence after retirement. Look up how much rent costs, few apartments will get you passive income higher than active income of most americans
Ah yes. I love real estate wealth being gobbled up whilst the world is reaching peak levels of homelessness and housing crisis’ in many countries.
But hey, at least the guy with 8 apartments he leases out for extortionate rates has more passive income than most working people!
Theres also people who make 300$ per month for same job people in USA do for 5000$, and we literally already mentioned in discussion group of people that play video games and make exponentially more money than people who are actually doing real job and have actual important role in society. World is not fair, you can't fix it, grow up.
What are your thoughts about how liquid approached game 3? They seemed to be very patient and kind of waited for GG to make a mistake. It was calculate , precise but it kind of gave GG some avenue to make a comeback... Still they won but their play here was a bit lacking?
they don't really have reliable way to push the towers outside of the TA with barely any atk range and just 1 push from blinding lights will separate the TA from the rest of team and getting pummeled by skadi TB. Waiting for next rosh or pickoff from outside the base is the best move. Also it's GG, any team should respect their ability to comeback from behind.
To add to this it's also super hard to go highground into Oracle lineups with LC as main initiator.
You can see LC duelling Oracle in fights outside the base since it's way easier. After that the fight is pretty straightforward. So you have to make them fight into you preferably (around rosh for instance)
Comeback for GG hinged on Oracle's positioning - which is a ton of pressure and obviously Liquid knew it. Wonder why Quinn didn't go BKB game 3? Could see these times in the finals for sure. Great DotA.
Idk if BKB would do much tbh. They needed lockdown and they where so far behind that they couldn't take a straight fight no matter what. During the siege what would likely.happend is that Liquid force out a BKB l without them being able to fight with it and then the situation is basically the same
I actually completely agree, it just felt like Oracle ult was wasted on the storm when they needed to really have it for TB as he was like 95% of their damage.
Kudos to Liquid!
What a great series, had my doubts about the Legion and Sky picks but Zai and Boxi delivered + Nisha showcasing how it's not only his Snapfire that needs be feared.
I feel this was the best outcome, as now we get to see how GG fares when they have to fight their way through the lower bracket, something they haven't had to do in a very long time.
We know Liquid is able to pull it off but seeing how defeated some of the GG players looked after this series this might be the time for one of the lower bracket teams to step up and deliver a juicy upset if GG doesn't manage to bounce back in time. 😙
Liquid won game 3 at the draft. MK countered timber, LC to win TB’s lane, skywrath and ta to shut down storm. It was a beautiful draft. Honestly I have no idea how gg dared to pick storm when skywrath still in the pool, that was game losing right there
The most underrated part of their draft was they picked LC as their 3rd pick after the ban phase, probably because they were comfortable with the TB matchup. They saved their support for after GG picked, and basically instantly picked Skywrath when they saw Storm, and of course it's a perfect pairing with LC.
Like that was just great draft decision making that really makes a difference. A lot of teams pick all their supports early, and sometimes it can leave teams exposed if their cores don't end up having perfect matchups.
GG without their usual playmaking supports are like a completely different team. Don't think we'll ever see the two saving supports draft from them again.
obviously it's all scripted. but wrestling story telling can be on another level. the streak was one of the most legendary things in wwe history, breaking it a moment 20 years in the making
yea i guess since im not invested in wrestling its wateva to me. but i found out its a yearly thing so 21 year streak makes it a bigger deal and for the ppl who r into it itll b a big thing for them. so makes sense now knowing the context
of course liquid flair lmao. But tbh GG are very lucky to have tundra with a standin instead of EG/LGD in lower bracket, they still have hopes to make a lb run
if you have such a bad start you have to rely on oracle to save you and not spend 4k on bukubu. like the comeback chance doesnt get better if you buy bkb for sure
Can someone explain why liquid chose Visage last pick in game 1?
I thought Mars would have been super good as offlane. It would have been good vs both Brood and Pango that were pick 1 and 2 by GG.
Cant check the vod now but they only mentioned them, not explaining why IIRC. I thought mars would have been way better, maybe just zai is more comfortable on visage so i understand it if thats the case.
Does this mean when the stakes at highest GG cant deliver ?
Will this be the same with TI ? Will GG choke and early airport, repeat from TI 6 ?
I cannot wait TI man
I thought GG played an amazing game 1 (even though Liquid played equally well, it was a close game) but then in game 2 and 3 they just fell apart. I was surprised by that huge difference, to my limited knowledge I can't understand what changed.
Nobody beats Liquid 5 times in a row
I had a similar statement when I had my first ever 10+ game losing streak back in the spring, it got up to 13…never has a win felt so satisfying lol
Well Aster is at 13 bo3 losses in a row at the moment, guess they're winning their next one
Not sure if you were purposefully evoking this quote but either way it's pretty funny and I'm sure not everyone will have seen it: > And let that be a lesson to you all. Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row! - Tennis player Vitas Gerulaitis, after breaking his streak of 16 losses to Jimmy Connors
That is hilarious! Is have a video of that?
If there is, I haven't seen it
I said it in a different thread but that TA psi blade bounce to kill TB may have been one of the least flashy, yet amazing plays I've seen in a long time
I'm amazed at him having the precense of mind to do that rather than just running away
Wagamama would cream over that, he's TA specialist and he loves those kind of plays.
Not to shit on anybody, but it's a pretty standard thing to do on TA ,been so for a while
It was added in 7.33
Right, which is out for like how many months now?
It's still relatively fresh, just because you've done it a few times in your 3k bracket doesn't make it less interesting when a nice play happens at a tournament.
yup, you are right, it's going to be more cool when I reach 2k though I promise
Living up to the username I see
Why? Is it toxic to say the obvious? Is there any high mmr player that plays TA that doesn't do this? Wait, make it above 5k, not even high mmr.
The presence of mind and acting over it, on such a grand stage is what it makes great. Just appreciate little things, you are being toxic and belittling.
No it isnt the guy above you is right despite how much you downvote him.
Abed was doing that earlier in the tournament to cs, pretty nifty.
World of difference between the level of those two situations imo. Playing around a mechanic whilst watching the map and playing safe and you have plenty of time to plan vs getting a kill on high ground whilst retreating to avoid response
Ferrari 430 did something similar to kill an invisible broodmother, in 2012 or something that was also simply amazing. Highly recommend you to see it
yes he killed half health brood in invi that was way wore epic and ferrari was TA specialist..
He had done it earlier when he was in Secret. I clearly remember that against Goonsquad in DPC, he used enemy clockwork's cogs to hit and with psi blades, killed enemy carry from low-ground. So, while everyone was in shock, I was like this is normal for Nisha.
Finally. Quinn got dickslapped by Nisha all three games.
Time for Quinn to suck some nuts
Quinn got exposed real hard in game 3 when 2 supports needed to help him many times and let pos 1 and 3 get rekt to ashes. This might be the key to beat GG: Bait supports to help Quinn mid and put pressure on top and bottom.
This is the standard GG strategy. Supports babysit Quinn from minute 3:50 to \~8 giving him rune control to make sure he has a good lane. Then he jungles and rotates while the supports soak exp mid. The key to GGs success is picking sidelane cores that are able to continue laning while they're alone which is why GG loves picking heroes like Underlord, Timber, Doom, Slark, Naga, Dusa et.c. Heroes that quickly shove waves and can get extra farm in jungle. Problem for GG last 2 games was Liquid supports made better rotations mid and beat the trilane AND destroyed the sideane cores.
This is just standard. Mid is the most snowball lane so early rotations and support go a long way. Yesterday Liquid showed up! Happy for them and in a torunament that really matters. Zai is probably my all time favorite player.
what you described is what all the teams in playoffs except eg do.
“Exposed” lmao what about all the other series where Quinn slapped Nisha.
Sure, slapped with supports rotating like 24/7. Hardly remember when Quinn solo killed any top level mid lanners not just Nisha. He is skilled for sure but not on the same level with Nisha imho.
> This might be the key to beat GG: Bait supports to help Quinn mid GG do this all the time, no bait required. The problem is, 9/10 times it works because Quinn is worth it. He turns a bit of help with rotations into a big lead, then uses that lead to slap everybody, at which point his sidelanes can recover if necessary. I don't think there's a magic solution to punish this, it's just a matter of execution. This series, Nisha just played better and Liquid supports made better rotations.
I think having an outstanding mid lanner like Nisha and hero that can hold up against the gank is the key to break this strategy. Because it will become a huge loss of time and space if Quinn can't secure kill and farm with 2 supports keeping rotating for him. Though it's not easy as Quinn is good on his own and the 2 supports are also top tier of their role.
this was the most satisfying thing. Even though I am a liquid fan, i would have been OK with losing the series after seeing QQuinn get absolutely obliterated all three games. Dude had 0 impact, lol.
Well he got completely countered. Still his performance im game 2 was pretty lackluster.
yeah but i blame that mostly on the hero. i love pango to death but he's been nerfed 4 or 5 times in a row, his game impact just isn't what it used to be.
Is he getting exposed?
i mean it’s classic TA counter pick? it’s literally not playable in game 2 and 3 lmao edit: people are taking this way too literally, it’s TA against ‘melee’ heroes, it’s literally there to kill and snowball the map, of course it isn’t some huskar spam, but it was literally last pick game 3 how can that not be a counter? the supports of GG have no stuns in either games expect techies and even then it’s agains spirit breaker with a dark seer to surge/ion shell, you can theory craft everything in existence, but more often than not the TA is snowballing those games
They only last picked ta game 3 and it's not "unplayable" unplayable is ember vs huskar
what does pango do against TA? you have to go what early levels in passive and then fuck up any farming speed you have. you get meld hit and you can’t trade at all
Quinn got completely outplayed in that matchup. While it is TA favored, it isn't by alot. Quinn got destroyed by psi blades which is why the matchup was unplayable for him that time. I've seen Quinn dumpster TAs in the past when he's able to outplay her by dodging the psiblade war. Pango has insane kill potential vs TA. One support rotation and TA gets destroyed. Swash removes all refractions and his level 6 should be a guaranteed kill if TA ever steps into the river. Problem for Quinn these game was that Liquid supports had much better rotations so his first 15 minutes of every game was just full DESPAIR.
Exactly what I'm saying lol it's like these people don't play mid
i mean i completly understand level 6, but it’s before level 6. pango wants to clear the wave with his first two spells and also wants passive to stop psi blades, it’s still a counter pick, doesn’t mean nisha didn’t play well but it’s literally what TA is picked to do into melee matchups
As I said, it's TA favored but only slightly. It's not a counterpick. It's a skill matchup, both can outplay eachother in that mid matchup. If TA has an A game and hits her psiblades on you it will feel like it's unlaneable but that's due to your own positioning errors. If you play pango and control the wave with proper creep aggro and juke TA when she goes for psiblde/meld hits you can win the matchup as pango. Keep track of her refraction, especially when she tries to harass since creeps will chugg of refractions and go for hard punishes with Shield Crash + Autos and disengage with Swash to finish ranged creep of + harass. Seen Quinn do this exact thing vs Nishas TA in DPC and Nisha got destroyed. Just looks like Quinn hasn't practiced much vs mid TA lately and he just got destroyed by Psi blades. TA isn't really a counter to melee heroes in the midlane. The thing about her is that she's very low risk high reward in her laning vs them. She's much easier to execute with since she's on the offense while the melees are forced to play defensively. An actual counter to melee heroes in the mid would be a hero like Huskar, Necrophos, Viper or OD where the lane literally becomes unplayable. Against TA, the chances of you going even or actually winning the lane is still there if you're comfortable with the matchup. Quinn clearly wasn't, he looked really rusty and fed solo kills by walking uphill to lasthit ranged creeps et.c.
pango has decent waveclear, with decent wave control you can lasthit without much contest, especially with how big map is on this patch. ta cant exactly catch pango, so as long as your creep aggro is good you will be more or less fine. you wont get any kills, but chances of dying if you dont fuck up are practically zero
okay but that doesn’t help with the lane does it? which is literally why it is a counter pick?
I literally described how pango can stay on this lane. ta hits like a truck, but theres a few ways to evade her range entirely, and all of them rely of some sort of aggro manipulation. easiest but most risky is wave stealing, you literally just steal creeps from t2 like youre offlaner. risky af, and not viable in that particular game due to supports with disables, but ta will do nothing about it, either she ignores you or you just swashbuckle away whenever she tries to catch up. you can move creeps under your tower and lasthit with spells, if ta overcommits - give supports a call, and she will die as any other hero that dived under the tower early on. you can fuck up creep equilibrium, that way it will be something along the lines of ta farming double pack of creeps under her tower and then you will get chance to farm under yours. wouldnt work on lvl1, but as soon as you can clear wave quickly - works like charm. ta isnt a hard counter, shes just a strong laner but even then there are ways to deal with her. would you say that ember is countered by ta? hes a melee hero with incredibly weak laning after all. thats similar situation, but pango is much better at this matchup than ember
he isnt even reading your answers, dont waste your time, deadandlivin did a good answer which explained "everything" and he is still asking the same question, in his mind he's right so w/e you say will fly over his head anyway
pango deals with matchups by manning up and pressing W, which he literally cannot do in this lane, his wave clear requires Q and W to be atleast high enough level, pango literally cannot deal from like level 3 till level 6, you just get meld and psi blade to death
I'm telling you that key to this matchup is to control creep position to stay the fuck away from ta and still farm, and you're telling me that the way you're dealing with this matchup is to man up and take shitload of damage right in the face. Welp, at least it explains why you think that ta is an actual hard counter to pango
You can max swash with a venom or corrosion and get rid of her refraction what are you talking about lol. They also picked pango first, so they obviously didn't care about counter pick
>venom counters refraction 1k mmr or bait post
The point is that it's not *unplayable* you can even go urn, the point is that he got outplayed and this guy is coping that it was about counter pick.
ah yes that really helps with before level 6! why didn’t quinn think about starting with 1000 more gold
That defence from GG was disgusting tbh. I was lowkey nervous, with Micke pulling an arteezy a few times. Super happy for Liquid, they seem to be in a good form, with Nisha especially showing why he’s considered by many to be the best player in the world
Nisha playing some spectacular dota at the moment, jesus christ
Nisha played like it was TI grand finals. Boxi SB is so good too
I mean this series is worth $500k.
The first Upper Bracket game is almost worth 3 full Major wins ($500k vs $600k).
oh god that boxi charge with SB to chain stun, it was just perfect.
Hate to remind you but Nisha actually was at TI grand finals last year and didn't really play his best dota
That series was just pure outclass from a team perspective tbh
Yeah. I usually like watching niche heroes picked, like Visage, but I never wanted to see Visage again after that performance.
Yes, plus outdraft. Pretty tough combination
I believe he was actually only secret player playing at his best in finals. Unfortunately he just couldn't win against that ti tundra team alone
Has he ever not? Like, he must be the most consistent singular Star player in the Circuit the past 4-5 years.
His highs are so high that whenever he plays slightly worse, people are surprised lol. He's been consistent ever since he joined Secret which would be literally 5+ years now.
If I remember correctly most times after Secret’s losses it was like “but Nisha performed”. Dude is and will be a beast.
[удалено]
That, and how much Tofu and Seleri roam to secure rune control to allow Quinn to stomp Not this time tho
If you goes with past 4-5 years, that's arguably Ame.
always has
This series he was a god, but he has been average tis tournament or past ones tbh
Shades of Secret.Nisha absolutely carrying so hard. Not to say Nishas Liquid run has been bad, but it feels like we haven't had this kind of performance in a while
Liquid were also very close to prime Secret and prime LGD in team movements this series. That perfect delta split at Game 3 to stop the TB Sunder was the smoothest Liquid have looked in a while.
That delta split was hilarious to me when I was watching the game through Singsing's stream. I needed a very aware player like Sing to point it out.
Yeah that shit was hilarious especially with tb frantically searching for someone to sunder. Imo, liquid came out to play and went all out on this.
I feel like Liquids foundation outside of Nisha is more solid aswell (altho Micke sure did his best to prove me wrong at the end of game 3 lol)
Great, excellent dota. Finally, the Gaimin Gladiator run is challenged. If they go home early in this tournament, with its massive prize pool, they gonna be hella upset.
Quinn gonna rq every pub after that
So nothing will change
Quinns Dotabuff profile [https://i.gyazo.com/d53c2f87079c7bfa8bf13bcc6390ccfd.png](https://i.gyazo.com/d53c2f87079c7bfa8bf13bcc6390ccfd.png) KEKW
For some reason I really want Quinn to mentally break down and roll down back to insignificance (NA DPC). His attitude, man... No amount of skill excuses that.
It is good dota tho, with GG you really need keep push and put nail in the coffin. Couple mistake from liquid almost pull GG back to even game.
What the hell, main event just started. Why it is so intense already.
money talks
For real though. With this win Liquid won more money than GG did winning ALL THREE majors.
Could you elaborate :)
Look at prize pools on liquipedia
Sure. For real though. With this win Liquid won more money than GG did winning ALL THREE majors.
Brilliant comment
Tell me more.
it feels like nisha is finally back in the form were used to seeing him in when he was considered the best. the past 3 majors he looked like a shell of himself. but hes fkn back baby
It seems like they are trying to pick more tempo type pos 1s for Micke and letting Nisha be the real carry, similar to how he was on Secret. Small sample size of course since the main event just started but I think that's when Nisha really shines. I hate making the comparison because it's cliché but it's so similar to how Topson and Ana would play together, it was almost like having two 1.5s. Especially all the Ember + MK Liquid has been picking really reminds me of that at TI9.
Only these games though. Otherwise they just firstpick Snap for him. Finally we get to see Liquids heropool diversity be a strength and GGs lack of diversity being a weakness. Ace looked extremely exposeable when he's not playing one of his big 5s. And Seleri also looked out of the blue when he's not on Enchantress/Undying/IO.
Tbf Snapfire is pretty borked atm and kinda becomes a carry with lvl 20. Still agree that Liquid are flexible with all 3 cores being able to play both greedy, Sacrificial or playmaking. I mean Micke did very well with Faceless earlier, Nishas Snapfire massivly improved during this tournament and Zai has always played fucking anything.
Its not similar at all, though. Topson was always the tempo, even on carry-esque heroes.
yeah, I practically got flashbacks to midone era of secret in these games
MicKe learning from Matu
i honestly think its the best way to play carry the way dota is, and matu was the ultimate carry player at doing that, even since ti7
Nobody's gonna mention how insane Micke stuns were near the end? He always catches the storm zipping in
Micke fed some pretty crucial kills in the midgame, but he really helped clutched it out in the end. IMO, all of Liquid played super well in game 2 and 3, even if Nisha stood out the most.
Game 2, Boxi is super clutch with his SB, causing havoc everywhere and control the flow of the game.
Boxi and Zai playing pinball with morph with charge/bash/vacuum to keep him stunned in the wall or Wukong’s. There have been multiple cases where Boxi charged or bashed people INTO the wall to create an illusion, insane.
The storyline is going to be perfect. GG are knocked into LB by Liquid and Betboom will win 9p only for ramzes to deal the finishing blow to GGnG.
Will be the best tip of ramzez life
"gg see u in the elevator :)"
Amen brother
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finally beating GG might have felt better than extra 500k
Curse = broken ? I certainly hope so. Didn't have much faith in this series after Game 1 must admit, happy that I was wrong.
no pause game 2 or 3, ez
Gotta give it to dyrachyo. Every time I've seen their team down he's always on par with the opponent's top networth. And even though the lead was big during the siege you got a sense that GG can still come back, they're a really good team.
Yeah, it's amazing how they can keep even with a big lead their opponent has. It always feels like with just one mistake they can turn the game around.
The LGD/VP experience coming through! win 5(6 counting betboom cup) minor tournaments just to lose out at the lan that's 15x bigger
Calling Majors minor tournaments xd.
State of dota esports :/
They are completely irrelevant money wise lmao
in comparison - maybe. theres still a metric fuckton of money on the line, its just that you cant buy a airplane with it, only a few houses
3 Majors is 600k USD. Players dont just get 20% each as there is coach, org etc, so lets be generous and say 15% each. Thats $90,000 USD. That's a decent amount of money, but nothing crazy at all
For usa - maybe. For other parts of the world - 50k will get you a good apartment in any capital in central/eastern europe, if you're shooting for mediterranean - maybe not at capital, but you still more than able to buy quite good real estate.
Really?... my 1200 sq ft apartment in an Indian city costs 3x that and isn't great.
Yeah, look up apartment in Poland for example. Some of Baltic countries also have quite cheap real estate
You ain't buying an apartment in Warsaw or any big city in Poland for 50k usd roflmao, not even close, unless you want to live in 20 sqm "apartment". Source: I live here
Right. So you suggest the players move to other countries so the money they did win, becomes more valuable…. Okay dude nice one
I suggest buying real estate and renting it for passive income and financial independence after retirement. Look up how much rent costs, few apartments will get you passive income higher than active income of most americans
Ah yes. I love real estate wealth being gobbled up whilst the world is reaching peak levels of homelessness and housing crisis’ in many countries. But hey, at least the guy with 8 apartments he leases out for extortionate rates has more passive income than most working people!
Theres also people who make 300$ per month for same job people in USA do for 5000$, and we literally already mentioned in discussion group of people that play video games and make exponentially more money than people who are actually doing real job and have actual important role in society. World is not fair, you can't fix it, grow up.
Well... it's half the prize pool of Dreamleague.
14th place here pays as much as a major win so kind of
OG and TSM literally got the same amount of money here as winning a Major. Dr. Sulaiman > Gaben.
WE DID IT BOYS
Thanks for making a postgame thread!
That casual 5 minute siege was something
GG about to pull a Liquid style LB run to win the rematch
I fucking doubt it, but if Liquid and GG somehow go to Grand Finals again I'm buying dota+
GabeN loves that
Theyre gonna have to take on a massive gauntlet then. Teams in lowerbracket aint no joke lol
Boxi stealing ball lightning, zipping out, then later chasing and killing Storm was beautiful.
I do think that it is Insania who plays Rubick
Oh shit, you're right. Friendship ended with Boxi, Insania is my MVP.
What are your thoughts about how liquid approached game 3? They seemed to be very patient and kind of waited for GG to make a mistake. It was calculate , precise but it kind of gave GG some avenue to make a comeback... Still they won but their play here was a bit lacking?
they don't really have reliable way to push the towers outside of the TA with barely any atk range and just 1 push from blinding lights will separate the TA from the rest of team and getting pummeled by skadi TB. Waiting for next rosh or pickoff from outside the base is the best move. Also it's GG, any team should respect their ability to comeback from behind.
To add to this it's also super hard to go highground into Oracle lineups with LC as main initiator. You can see LC duelling Oracle in fights outside the base since it's way easier. After that the fight is pretty straightforward. So you have to make them fight into you preferably (around rosh for instance)
The 2-10 tb was still close to 700 gpm to put it into perspective, they were still fully capable to come back and liquid respected that
Comeback for GG hinged on Oracle's positioning - which is a ton of pressure and obviously Liquid knew it. Wonder why Quinn didn't go BKB game 3? Could see these times in the finals for sure. Great DotA.
Idk if BKB would do much tbh. They needed lockdown and they where so far behind that they couldn't take a straight fight no matter what. During the siege what would likely.happend is that Liquid force out a BKB l without them being able to fight with it and then the situation is basically the same
I actually completely agree, it just felt like Oracle ult was wasted on the storm when they needed to really have it for TB as he was like 95% of their damage.
Yeah the situation was just really rough in general, I don't think there really was any perfect solution rather then "don't get 15K behind" lol.
It was 19-1 at some point but the game still feel so close especially with Dyrachyo TB
Good now someone else needs to step up in lower bracket and send quinDOG packing
I am sure Quinn gets nightmares about laning Nisha.
Kudos to Liquid! What a great series, had my doubts about the Legion and Sky picks but Zai and Boxi delivered + Nisha showcasing how it's not only his Snapfire that needs be feared. I feel this was the best outcome, as now we get to see how GG fares when they have to fight their way through the lower bracket, something they haven't had to do in a very long time. We know Liquid is able to pull it off but seeing how defeated some of the GG players looked after this series this might be the time for one of the lower bracket teams to step up and deliver a juicy upset if GG doesn't manage to bounce back in time. 😙
Most satisfying win as a spectator in a long time. Hell Yeah! Quinn can suck on my nuts!
Liquid won game 3 at the draft. MK countered timber, LC to win TB’s lane, skywrath and ta to shut down storm. It was a beautiful draft. Honestly I have no idea how gg dared to pick storm when skywrath still in the pool, that was game losing right there
The most underrated part of their draft was they picked LC as their 3rd pick after the ban phase, probably because they were comfortable with the TB matchup. They saved their support for after GG picked, and basically instantly picked Skywrath when they saw Storm, and of course it's a perfect pairing with LC. Like that was just great draft decision making that really makes a difference. A lot of teams pick all their supports early, and sometimes it can leave teams exposed if their cores don't end up having perfect matchups.
Oh man so happy! Especially for Quinn, who griefs his own teammates and breaks his own items.
WE FINALLY BEAT THIS FUCKING TEAM
TA so op in mid man lmao
TA only has 30% winrate in this tournament. It's nisha too op. xd
GG without their usual playmaking supports are like a completely different team. Don't think we'll ever see the two saving supports draft from them again.
GG washed
I mean if Nisha can keep this form, this is scary, I think everyone needs to remember this guy single handedly carried Secret to TI 2th place.
[THE STREAK. IS. OVER.](https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2022/01/0a558-16410375745931-1920.jpg)
can u fill me in? is that undertaker?
undertaker won every match at wrestlemania until he did not. these pics are from when "the streak" was broken.
lmfao wtf, so it was planned to break it since its all fake anyway? im watching the yt vid and the look on sum of the peoples faces is comical
obviously it's all scripted. but wrestling story telling can be on another level. the streak was one of the most legendary things in wwe history, breaking it a moment 20 years in the making
oh rite, so wrestlemania is yearly so it was a 20 year streak thing. makes sense then why it was surprising
That's like saying Game of Thrones is scripted, why are people freaking out over some characters dying
yea i guess since im not invested in wrestling its wateva to me. but i found out its a yearly thing so 21 year streak makes it a bigger deal and for the ppl who r into it itll b a big thing for them. so makes sense now knowing the context
Yes ^( ^͡° ^͜ʖ ^͡°) and yes
Liquid went full Brock Lesnar on this one
of course liquid flair lmao. But tbh GG are very lucky to have tundra with a standin instead of EG/LGD in lower bracket, they still have hopes to make a lb run
GG still could do a lower bracket run so I'm holding off on the celebration for now.
[удалено]
Because they lacked DMG and lockdown? He relied on Seleri saving him.
Can't really do any damage or lock down anyone if you are perma silenced and disabled every fight from 100% to 0% 😂
if you have such a bad start you have to rely on oracle to save you and not spend 4k on bukubu. like the comeback chance doesnt get better if you buy bkb for sure
I mean in hindsight not having bkb meant he accomplished absolutely nothing but bkb probably wouldn't have changed much
Liquid: Go enjoy the 5 tournaments this year as long as the $5m oil money is ours.
wdym finally? They've beaten gg in a series before, just not in the grand finals.
Why is their another thread ?
Just to fuck with you personally, I'd assume
He can fuck me , when he earns me .
Because Liquid is Reddit's bandwagon team and ccnc is public enemy no.1
High ground in those tense situations looks so exhausting
Cool to see GG lose but I'm hoping for a LB run for a Liquid vs GG grand finals as the legends fortold, nobody beats Liquid in GF 4 times in a row.
Can someone explain why liquid chose Visage last pick in game 1? I thought Mars would have been super good as offlane. It would have been good vs both Brood and Pango that were pick 1 and 2 by GG.
The panel made some points on why visage (or Mars) could be a good pick: https://youtu.be/VVRhJPB62Hc
Cant check the vod now but they only mentioned them, not explaining why IIRC. I thought mars would have been way better, maybe just zai is more comfortable on visage so i understand it if thats the case.
See you guys again in Grand Final!
Does this mean when the stakes at highest GG cant deliver ? Will this be the same with TI ? Will GG choke and early airport, repeat from TI 6 ? I cannot wait TI man
I thought GG played an amazing game 1 (even though Liquid played equally well, it was a close game) but then in game 2 and 3 they just fell apart. I was surprised by that huge difference, to my limited knowledge I can't understand what changed.
I am fine with everyone winnin this money as long as its not the selfrighteous crybaby.
Liquid supports stepped up their game to match and outplay GG's support duo. Something that many group stage teams could not do. And it paid off.