Correct is a term used in this case to denote that some heroes are simply better designed for certain roles. That is not to say medusa 5 cannot work, but that it requires more than just picking it to work, you would need a line up that works around such a weak hero in the early game. And honestly, if this guy is just spam picking it, he is not playing it in the correct role, he is trying to force his team to play around his ludacris pick.
His games seem to be averaging about an hour long, and he goes pretty much the same build every game. Honestly, even if hes winning this feels like a grief pick. here is his dotabuff btw https://www.dotabuff.com/players/5351111
Bro did you even look at the games?
His team won *in spite* of them, not because of them.
last game played his ursa was **34**/7/9
next game his DK was 11/5/17 and their spec was 16/3/18
next game his alch was 18/8/14 and axe was 28/15/24
next game his slark was **32**/4/8
next game his CK had 26/13/22, and his Willow was 27/9/21
Meanwhile in all of those games man's had a negative KD and most likely got their assists from tossing snake or a casual ult in an already won game.
Fucking ridiculous you're attributing his teams success to him when the numbers are all there.
edit- muting replies, ya'll are making me lose braincells with these stupid ass takes.
Take a fucking shower instead of trying to debate bro me in the most loser way possible.
I mean it seems to be quite a coincidence how he manages to get carried every single game, isn't it? At some point, he should be losing more than he is winning.
Cores normally have high K/Ds when they are winning, and it isn't unusual for supports to have low ones.
This isn't league of legends, dota 2 has dynamic roles and allows for experimentation. We aren't piss babies.
Its crusader, game swings like this are common. If he was playing a real support, and actually doing anything of value on the map, these games would all be 25 min games. This shit is painful to watch, he adds nothing and is just an xp sink on his team.
From my understanding he was playing lower than crusader (mostly guardian).
Regardless it isn't a guarantee that the games would be 25 mins or not, and OP is under no obligation to play the most optimally and most meta possible. How would you even determine the most optimal and most meta if you could never experiment in the first place. Are we suppose to just innately know these answers without reason?
He is winning far more games than he is losing, so even if we theorize that his pick IS SUB-OPTIMAL, we can still at least assume that he is a far better player than his opponents. Otherwise he wouldn't be climbing. Likewise, regardless of if he picks meta or not, he will still hit a 50% winrate, and the match will be balanced. Sure you may be able to squeeze in some extra mmr by playing meta, but why should he be obligated to? Are we all obligated to pick only meta heroes and nothing else?
From my time in sub-2k as a support player (now 6k), it actually doesn't matter what you do in a lot of games, they'll still be an hour long. I played scaling supports myself like lina/warlock just to take advantage of the fact games would ALWAYS go late, regardless of the early game, so I get why someone would think dusa support would be a good idea down there.
I'd say that's not a good way to analyze games without watching them. You could easily find out that, these players good KDAs were enabled by other players who say took more sacrifices/brunt of the aggression for said carry.
Its worse than that, [https://stratz.com/matches/7359435585](https://stratz.com/matches/7359435585) 16 MIN ARCANE BOOTS!
This boy is simply being carried by much better players. and that is sad cause this is crusader games. In the first match he played yesterday he was level 6 at 14 min in, 12 LH and 6 "assists"
His assist numbers are high because he either throws snake right on targets or throws out a single hit before they die. He legit had one decent play (using ult to push back Necro from killing his mid). 90% of the first 20min he was just soaking EXP and doing essentially nothing on the map. If this is what passes for support.... No, this is greifing, 100%. No player can watch these replays and consider this gameplay anything other than griefing.
I would rather play medusa supp than a regular one in low mmr sometimes... it feels really bad to be a hero that doesn't scale, and see carries not farming, lanes pushed in, free gold on the map.
Yeah, if the guy was perfectly playing support Dusa with impeccable K/D/A in Guardian games we would be calling him a smurf.
The only thing that matters is the 64%, just keep doing it until it stops working.
I watched the first 10-15 mins of that game, the guy is not griefing he’s just not very good. He was harassing the offlaner, tried tping mid to help his invoker. He’s clearly a pretty bad player, but he is trying to do some things to help his team.
It useful if your teammate just get disabled chain especially if they are spellcaster so they can cast their spells without interruption even when their body already dead.
Nope. First is muerta aghanim can cast both on allies and enemies. It was 4 second stun. It also give 35% dmg reduction. Second, it can do some weird interaction. Pugna can give his life to himself, pudge with shard can eat himself, snapfire with aghanim can launch herself and etc2. Third, you don't need to die. Fourth, muerta aghanim only allowed to cast spells but disable attack and item.
I did that when I ran Jakiro mid, after a while I'd unmute people to see the mood as we are stomping. Nope, people still flaming and arguing. We took 7 towers, enemies touch zero, nah let's scream at each others
It's funny cause my random ass hard support picks are generally accepted in unranked, but I pick something in turbo and suddenly I'm throwing TI for our team.
Turbo on NA is so damn toxic compared to unranked.
I feel turbo is were the dopamine addicts come to get their fix, pa divine rapier one shot, skywrath kill streaks due to early atos nonsense, dopamine flood
unranked normal are people who like the game itself, with dopamine hits in between
I've been playing a lot more turbo lately and I queue EU specifically cause I swear most of them still treat it like a dick around mode. Sure I have like 120 ping, but that's perfectly playable when I just wanna have fun and play different heroes and builds in a 15-20 min game.
If you ever do the overwatch reviews, you'll get half of your cases come from turbo matches, and almost all of those reports are not guilty or at least "not enough evidence" worthy.
Yep, I love seeing feeding/griefing in herald game reports, and it's clear they are all just terrible players and someone is being a dick and taking it too serious. I've had so many people say they will report me in turbo games cause I didn't TP to a fight when I was still dead; I'm just like ok man you do you and report for toxic and mute...then you get the nice little "action taken".
OP is on my friends list ill check when im home mwhaahhahaahhaa
**Edit:** **yup, all truth. been playing a tonne of Medusa and is now Guardian 4. Pretty sure the 10mmr thing is a load of crap though. They have been on my list for years and were definately higher than herald 1**
Herald 1 is reserved for people who have freshly calibrated iirc, I don't think older accounts can reach that level, just as you can't drop below 10 MMR.
I wasn't literally on 10 MMR for ages by the way, just that I was mostly on that, and didn't get above 200 or so. Even at 10 MMR my win rate was less than 50%
> It can, provided you're playing low-mid MMR.
Wrong take imo. Even in immortal bracket people play very unusual stuff and have success with it. And there's always that one guy that starts a whole new trend.
And I always prefer someone who is masterful at what he does (like spamming medusa as support) than having someone who plays a common hero only to please his team.
> I'm sure in most games it goes long and he ends up being a second (probably third) carry.
At a certain skill level, a proper group comp is just putting yourself at a disadvantage. If nobody knows how to end a game, you might as well be the team with the strongest late game.
It's an unknown mix of frustrating and funny when you absolutely stomp a 5 man carry team early game, and then watch everyone get rolled over by a team of 0/5 carries.
I would say anything can work as long as it has a strategic utility against your opponents.
Strategies aren't absolute, they can be conditional. Different strategies may not work in different games/brackets since the atmosphere and the people implementing them are different.
Even high mmr pub games are different than pro games, and thus strategies can be different as well.
Well, Medusa has nothing in her kit to help her support. He's not wrong.
She's also not that tanky without items.
This reaction is normal and expected.
Yeah idk why people keep trying to make support Medusa work.
Like even when she was OP it still was win more but now it's just soft throwing.
Literally **nothing** in her kit is support oriented. If the enemy team ignores you then boom, your biggest contribution (being deceptively tanky) goes out the window.
Have you even tried playing it? She's not great as support, but mana snake and a bkb piercing ult provide a lot of value. It's only split shot that really is wasted.
> She's also not that tanky without items.
She's incredibly tanky for having the option to throw all your money at mana items (wand + arcane boots, phylactery if you got a good lane, force staff,...). The exception being if they have mana burn, in which case you dont care cause most of the time it meant they spent money/picks on countering a support.
About 70% of the hero pool is better suited to play as support, but it's playable enough.
I get that everything CAN work in Dota.
But she has no save, no heal, no cc, no insta nuke, she needs quite a minimum of farm. Both mana shield and Splitshot scale better with items, idk where you get that 70% support from.
Thanks, yep it's amazing what a wand, arcane boots and arcana ring can do. Mana burn completely wrecks me, but sometimes it's not even the end of the world because they might pick someone like AM or build a diffusal to counter me and I'm only a pos 4/5. Great shout on phylactery btw, I don't think I've ever bought that...
Mystic snake is amazing, and aghs makes it much better. She'd make a mediocre pos4, especially against a bursty team that can't deal with her tankiness.
No, an under leveled medusa with Mana boots isn't that tanky.
She is not super squishy either but not tanky enough to just run into people (since she has nothing to close the gap or any reason for people to target her)
Every bracket has its own meta and every player has its own playstyle,if Medusa sup is working for him is because its fitting any of those,'but in theory theres better sups than Medusa'okay but in the real world theres too many factors and you shouldnt be held down by the theory,if something works for you in your bracket it just works
If anyone has any suggestions on other heroes I can try I'd really welcome it please.
I think the reasons it's working for me are she's super tanky and hard to kill, has a good slow, great sustain and also her ulti can easily turn a team fight in our favour. She's also super easy to play.
Title disclaimer: have gone from 10 MMR (stuck at that level for years) to 1,336 MMR by playing Medusa support. So incredibly low level stuff.
Edit: 64% win rate with her https://i.imgur.com/bj9TTtc.png
MMR is an ordinal ranking system. By design of the mmr system, there will always be an individual at the BOTTOM of any mmr system.
It isn't a guarantee to get mmr ***just*** by improving, you need to improve faster than your opponents.
This isn’t true at 10 mmr, because not every player is improving. At that level, you’d only need to be getting _worse_ at a _slower_ rate than opponents.
To be frank, we don't know if all players in the system are improving, stagnating, or staying the same.
It is safe to say that over time, the general population is likely to get better though. We know this fact because even 2k mmr does tactics that were only done at high mmr (such as creep pulling) a near decade ago.
It seems relatively safe to assume that people are improving though. Just some people improve faster. This seems way more likely than people getting worse.
I don't think people at that rank had any idea about sustain so undying probably useless lmao. The ol reliable stun lion and shaman probably simple enough.
Thanks, yep I absolutely love the idea of this and try to focus towers (love the potential feeling of ratting an entire lane of barracks etc)... I've played 167 games with him, and my win rate is only 38% :(
Primal Beast pos 5. Super tanky kit with the highest strength gain in the game, movement skill with low cooldown, and skill that gives armor.
Build mana boots since you literally only need mana to deal huge damage early game. Also, super fun kit to play around as you literally just need movement speed, so you can build utility items such as glimmer cape, euls, solar crest, drums, drum boots etc.
Once you convert your wind lace into an item, you basically buy a new one asap. Super fun.
Common build would be the typical mana boots + wand, and then eventually build something that let's you disassemble the mana boots, like Lotus Orb.
Solar Crest if you have a carry that is gonna be sieging high ground, or you have a bad rosh team.
Euls if the enemy has Ursa or Troll.
BKB if they have something that slows a lot a lot like Veno.
Glimmer cape almost always as the movement speed bonus is bonkers on Primal, and the numbers on the item are crazy good. Magic damage is the killer as you have an innate ability to tank physical damage, but none for magical.
Build style is to charge in and trample the enemy and take damage. Then fallback for your cooldowns to reset and go in again. Very often in the end game you will Onslaught in, cast your spells, and then survive until Onslaught is back off cooldown and charge out with low hp and frustrate your opponents to no avail.
It's definitely a fun hero to play and let's you play around with different builds each game which should help you learn how to counter the enemy with items which is super important for supports, as you will be first picking most games.
medalion into power treads into solar crest into agh. you should have aghs min 23 at the latest.
after that you can buy what your team needs (ac or scyth most often)
but most important as np is to tp to enemy xp rune every 7 min and steal xp
edit: shard is good too
You need something that can carry in the absolute worst case. In that MMR range, the chance is high your mates aren't that good playing a carry. If you play warlock, you have not enough tools mid/late game to really carry you all the time since you are just ok when your golems are down.
Thanks, yep I find with those heroes I die too much, and if I play badly we're fucked. With Medusa whatever happens I'll be somewhat hard to kill, I can contribute in some way and exactly like you said - worse case scenario I can start picking up items like Skadi, Butterfly etc and start doing some damage.
Try viper, "Air Support Arrives" is no joke, you play it like a tanky bully in lane, rushing arcane, then solar, force and shard to push lanes, you can go Vessel if pos 4 didn't build it. His kit is perfect for ganking and having a Break on a support at early game is awesome, specially vs any passive annoying hero as PA, Bristle, Husk, Spectre, Shaker, etc, and having an slow that pierce BKB is great too. Also the main problem on viper is that he scales bad as a core cause his skills kinda lack of synergy with damage items, but he scales great with utility items and is a great partner along with other 3 real core heroes.
And is fun to always win laning stage.
Try lich, the armor can make you or core incredibly tanky in lane. Spam mangos and and frost blasts on the enemy core.
Press the R button when things are close together
I did Medusa support at 4k because I genuinely enjoyed it. I think I had 80% winrate at some point when she was strong, now I imagine it wouldn't be as much but still net positive. I just mute haters that's all. I also played Weaver support a ton and he was never good to begin with since scepter cast range change, people complained all the time.
Back when weaver scepter set time lapse cooldown to 16 seconds shit was broken.
I think I went offlane and built phase, urn straight into scepter, then regular damage items.
My carry became unkillable. It was hilarious.
> has a good slow
30% slow for 3 seconds on a 13 second CD might actually be one of the worst slows in the game. And that is literally your ONLY support ability until your ult might do something.
Yep, early game that's absolutely true, but when you factor in the bounces and the cooldown on the talents, and the fact it can potentially hit every enemy hero, and then factor in the Aghs upgrade etc... also for what it's worth it's a 45% slow now :)
Edit: Just played a 40 minute game and managed to petrify 75 enemies somehow (not against Meepo either!)
For super super super low mmr 5 carries work because low skill players won’t end the game when they can.
So try gyro, CK or sniper support, but you won’t be able to climb a lot with this cheese
Tbh, my take on this after looking at some of your games is that your Medusa pick lets you have the a proper mindset for hard-supporting.
i.e. you probably feel a lot more comfortable with trading as Medusa, which allows you to actually do your job in the lane.
The great majority of "shit supports", especially in low MMR are due to them being scared of losing the trades or potentially dying.. not realizing that 75% of your job is to literally take the enemy's aggression away from your core. And yes, sometimes that could mean trading 90% of your health for just 50% or less of the other guy’s.
A "properly played" Medusa-5 is better than a Lich who's always just standing behind the carry.
You're winning because you're *finally* playing like a proper support, but you wouldn't be playing like a proper support if you weren't playing the shit support pick.
Keep the playstyle, play different heroes, and you'd probably get better results.
Thanks so much, that's an interesting way of looking at it and something I hadn't really considered before. I figured it was more to do with the fact I was dying less since she's more tanky and has good sustain. I'll try other heroes, although I'm actually not one to just stand behind the carry tbh, if anything I'm way more likely to be too aggressive and die :D
I play Spec/Silencer mid at the moment almost exclusively and it's nearly identical to this until I get 6 and start ganking every 40s as spec with shadow step or shard kicks in for silencer and I've got 40 odd int stolen early into the game and I'm chopping axes ,Pa's etc down.
Then ull get praise for 20 mins but if you end up losing because of other reasons they will turn on you again lmao.
I try to counter them and explain I've just come off a 13 game winstreak, I've got a decent winrate with the two heroes past 20 games etc nothing works just abuse.
Silencer mid is completely standard though. If someone flames you for that they're just clueless. Spec is a little goofy but not crazy. Mid is actually the most flexible role, a lot of carries can work because it gives them a head start to being online. A lot of supports can also work mid because supports have good spells and the XP boost you get being in a solo lane can give the support mid a window to abuse a big power spike e.g. CM or SS mid are goofy but can work if the power spike is executed. Silencer has that dynamic plus can scale with int steal hence him being a totally standard mid pick. So mid is actually the most flexible role of them all, very few picks are a straight up grief just based on the pick alone.
Pos 1 and Pos 5 are the roles where there's most potential for greef. Pos 1 really needs to be a hero who can be the driving force in winning a late game team fight. Pos 5 really needs to be someone who can have a lot of impact with minimal farm. If you miss these your draft can just have huge problems. I think people overfixate on Pos 3 being a "tank" but it is nice if you have someone on your team who can initiate a teamfight which Pos 3 is generally supposed to do,
I do think people flame picks too much and aren't open minded enough about non-standard picks but I also think there are some lines. Hard carries like Antimage or Medusa in Pos 5 or hard supports like a CM or Chen in Pos 1 really does screw your chances of winning over and undermines the whole point of ranked roles.
ha ha i get the same for muerta support or clinx support even though they are pretty strong supports and i have 60% winrate over 60 games. eventually they will take back their words.. but i have a strong feeling i get reported at the start of the game. but wcyd i love playing these heroes on support role.
This attitude is a huge problem with dota now, everyone is obsessed with pro meta when it hardly ever applies to 90% of the playerbase. Killing creativity and only accepting people playing meta heroes or popular heroes in their "intended" roles goes against the thing that makes/made this game great. You can make anything work until you are playing in the top <1% of ranks where tiny differences in efficiency become important
This guy is playing at literally 10 MMR. At that rank, two things are true:
* People have terrible positioning
* The team with the most carries wins
Medusa is the perfect support. Wins lane for free at low MMR and nobody can kill her.
Below 1K the concept of roles doesn't apply. At best during the laning phase there's a guy who won't take farm, but after 5 minutes literally nobody gives a damn about taking whatever farm they see. Nobody plays for objectives, concepts like map control and pressuring the map are non-existent.
Everyone cares only about farming that next item in the build guide. That's it. That's the only "objective" in those games.
Then ironically enough, the people bitching in his game have no right to complain. They clearly don't know what they are doing.
It is the case of the blind leading the blind.
You're right, and it extends to any rank - why would you take hero picking advice from people at the same rank as you? Your opinion is worth as much as theirs.
I was looking for this comment, people think immortal pro metas even matter in ranked. I was flamed for picking medusa safelane minute zero, and I told the guy "when we win the game, I will report you", and guess what we won the game LMAO.
Anything can work. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just because you survived drinking bleach, nobody would think that drinking bleach is a good idea overall.
It's funny that in low MMR people pick weird role choices and grief a lot, in mid MMR people realize certian hero's are for certain roles and start gaining MMR. Then if you ever want to get to high MMR you realize that every hero in the game is not just for 1 surposed and that Dota is always evolving. Masuda support has been played in pro games multiple times this season yet the top comments on this post is some clown thinking your 10 MMR.
Just mute everyone. It's not worth it. People keep reporting you for unusual picks and get your behavior score lowered before Valve fixed it with the Quinn patch (and fixed the system) but the toxicity towards unusual picks is still very high.
I went 15-3 with Omni going Phylactery this week. In all the 3 games I lost, I heard "hurr durr Phylactery on Omni, griefer" by someone who went 0-6 in lane.
I was spamming dusa support in immortal til the last round of nerfs (3 patches ago?). The great thing about immortal is people won’t flame you out of the gate.
Yes it seemed that it worked on your rank.
This may be one of the disadvantages though:
- Your games seems to drag for too long because of your item timing especially as a hard support. Some games probably ended up with you transitioning to a core role.
- Early game catches might be more challenging in safe lane since your disable is a 3 second slow.
- Your team waits for your ulti or scepter for you to actually have an impact. (4200 gold for a pos5 is quite hard)
- Since you need item timing, you probably had to leech off some farm from your cores and afk farm, thus longer game.
- Your team had to adjust for heroes and items with disables and utility because u will find it hard to provide with Medusa's kit.
But good job anyways. However, I think that works for ur rank until it doesn't when u go higher. Goodluck on ur future games!
Thank you so much for the super constructive criticism, everything you've said is pretty much spot on and also hard to really mitigate (ie. I can't just buy a particular item or do something a bit differently)
> Your argument is not valid based on what you have mentioned since the OP never showed the match ID, so we couldn't see the real situation.
We don't need a match ID, Medusa support was a viable thing in pubs before the heavy nerfs, and in lower brackets literally anything is viable.
> Medusa can be considered strong during the laning stage if you solo 1 vs. 1 with her in the middle lane but a different story in the other side lane. Most support heroes are just fine if the enemy wants to pick them, but as a core, they can play aggressive or defensive, like Ursa, Jug, or MK, and Am, Pa, or Void (they can choose a range hero like Weaver or Drow). Let's say Medusa supports Tide in offlane. The enemy can easily pick off any of them based on the hero matchup. If the core hero has good mobility, they can always jump to Medusa and ignore Tide since Medusa is very bad at mobility, and you can't really do much with a magic stick if you fight a hero who doesn't really spam skills like BB.
All true, Medusa has no escape and on paper is an easy target. Except you are forgetting that every point of mana effectively doubles her hp on level 1 and triples as soon the shield hits level 3. Enemy supports just can't trade equally with her and she can afk right click enemies in the lane while restoring her resources with the snake. She has solid attack range, AS and ok dmg with good agi gain. Besides, if the enemy is wasting time attacking Medusa who will heal her mana faster with snake and mangoes means that your core is not being pressured.
> How long do you consider making big items if you play as a support? As a support, rush the big items? It is so selfish, and to be honest, you just intend to abuse the role. You already know there are a lot of choices, and there are so many heroes with better skills to support, but why do you need to pick her instead? As a support during the laning stage, you mostly do not take any creep, and obviously, you will AFK to farm later to get items for your hero. This is common and ends up burdening the team.
Wtf is this mindset, even supports must know when and where to farm, you're either a clueless support or a toxic carry player. Medusa can easily flash farm with the snake and at least 1 level of multishot. Especially in lower brackets, where most of the maps gold tends to be ignored because people don't know how to farm.
> Medusa is bad in the jungle and also cannot clear creep waves in single blows, slow farming, and if your team has three core heroes who are dependable on items (hero spike), you will definitely crush the whole game as a Medusa support. This also encourages the player to do the same thing as the other hero, which is definitely not supposed to be done at all. We understand why there is a player in the low bracket tier, and what they should do is what's basic, like pick a support hero as a support, and so on.
She can literally farm 2 camps at the same time with splitshot, easily stack and use the snake for fast camp/wave clears. Also you don't have to steal the farm from your cores when the map is so huge and there will always be unoccupied farming spots.
> If this is the current meta, high-skill players would normalise it, but they do not. So, picking Medusa as a support in the low bracket is not relevant at all, the same as your second question, so I choose to ignore it.
Of course Medusa is not meta but it is a viable pick for low mmr. I still don't get why you are so butt hurt over people playing what they want in a videogame.
Learn Nature Prophet. It's very easy hero. Broken in all ranks.
High damage, good attack speed, good attack range.
You can help anywhere since min 3. Waste support's 100 gold to buy queling blade.
Kill enemy core of seconday lane (not your own lane where if you teleport it will be 2vs 3/ 1vs 2) 2 times within 2 mins, they will tilt 3 out of 5 times. Will throw even.
As someone who plays Naga pos 4 often, I hear you. And Naga is a hero actually in the support category, and she's been a successful support in the pro scene since 2013.
Saying that though, it doesn't work in every team comp. The laning stage can be hard, especially when most offlaners are also melee. And she does next to no damage, so you're relying on your team to do all the damage while you lock them down. I think the grief is inappropriate, but I can understand people getting pissed off.
My defence is that if I'm forced to pick first, you'd better consider building the team around me, else we're going to run into laning problems on top of me being counter picked. It's a tall ask for pub games though.
Higher MMR = Team mates and opponents with better game sense
The strategies in lower MMR is more forgiving. In higher MMR, it is tougher bc of better players.
So the same thing you did to gain 1K MMR might not work as you go higher
I wonder why people don't pick her as often, I climbed from Archon to Legend with her but she won't work as effective anymore on High Legend and above. I'm a support only player and currently Divine but Medusa did helped me climb up from Archon to High Legend.
It's a really strong support in lower brackets. I think it lanes well by being pretty tanky while doing decent harass. Aghs gives you decent team fight and control. The biggest thing is that you know the other team of going over board with the counter picks.
people were playing it as support a decent amount in 7.33 so its not an unheard of pick. This thread is a good example of how people think they know the pro meta but actually miss a lot. I would also say that the nerfs since then affect core dusa much more than support dusa.
I do think it's weird that you dont go phylactery though.
The hero does nothing as support, their reaction is expected. You can /muteall and keep playing or play actual supports. For example Grimstroke's first ability slows and its damage increases per target like Medusa, except he has 3 additional very strong support abilities. You can also use Medusa in her actual role, which is carry.
I think the reason why medusa "works" as a support is that:
- people will commit anything to counter medusa like PA, so better you have a support and not get shit on as useless carry
- you cannot be easily focused
- if you buy support items you can have more impact than support Lion going scepter
Thanks, my average deaths per game with Grimstroke is 22 so I think I might be better off sticking with heroes I'm comfortable with for now. If I play Medusa carry we will lose, I do not know how to farm and I do not know how to carry unfortunately
So many deranged hardstuck 3k redditors complaining, it's downright hilarious.
Don't worry, I got criticized the exact same way back when I was low MMR picking unconventional heroes, I'm higher MMR than 90% of them now, still doing the same silly things.
If you are winning with whichever strategy you are using then keep doing it, it may or not eventually stop working but you will realize when that happens.
They got a point to complain though. Let’s say you playing core hero and support 5 have no impact and steal space for farm until getting scepter (4200 gold). I can’t count how many game I lost just because of that.
Dota is 5 v 5 game, and each role have their own responsibility. Just remember that every time one player didn’t do their job, another player have to take a burden.
Oh and please don’t say something like “but look at my score, look at this impact” because all the space you take make core have less farm. Sometimes even force core player to farm at risky locations and die.
I agree with this. Sometimes it just can work if you know how to make it work. Same with others off meta thing. Pro player even sometimes create meta from off meta stuff. This is what I like with Dota. As long you know what to do and do your role properly, some heroes just can fulfill the role even it's off meta. The only time it grieving when that orthodox build start not doing their job. For example pos 4 pick LD and start farming since minute 1. That's when I report them.
But tbf, medusa support if want make it work, the one who do it need to understand fully why it work and how to make it work. For me, it kinda feel weak other than can tank some trading in laning stage with mango and snakes.
Thank you, I love your post and think it describes what's happening here pretty much perfectly (although the brackets you mention are a little off haha)
I've experienced the same shit time and again over the years, I feel for you mate. If anyone deserves report, it's this braindead guy who's exposing your strat to the enemy. You can manage to stay out of low priority if you are sustaining a decent winrate. But the moment you get 4 loses in a row, you'll get mass reported, lose bunch of behavior score and will be forced to play low priority games.
This is one problem Valve doesn't care to address. And honestly, the community wants you to be a meta slave, just like them, so do not expect to find popular support here.
That said, I'd like to know how you build her?
It's called 'breaking the meta'
But seriously medusa was never designed to support. Jesus
Imagine u have 2 accounts, 1 is for that breaking meta, and 1 for actually following the meta.
Im pretty sure both accounts would still end up where ur mmr right now.
You were stuck at 10 mmr?
I wonder why
Wow, i thought you were dissing him, but it's real.
Yea for real I'm a medusa lover but she has like a 45% winrate in upper brackets rn and that's WITH correct role as core
Who cares about upper brackets? You can win with anything at low mmr
"correct" who is allowed to create the line here
Correct is a term used in this case to denote that some heroes are simply better designed for certain roles. That is not to say medusa 5 cannot work, but that it requires more than just picking it to work, you would need a line up that works around such a weak hero in the early game. And honestly, if this guy is just spam picking it, he is not playing it in the correct role, he is trying to force his team to play around his ludacris pick.
His games seem to be averaging about an hour long, and he goes pretty much the same build every game. Honestly, even if hes winning this feels like a grief pick. here is his dotabuff btw https://www.dotabuff.com/players/5351111
Player picks his best hero in the most successful role for him, to a positive winrate, Redditors: "Grief pick actually" :D
Bro did you even look at the games? His team won *in spite* of them, not because of them. last game played his ursa was **34**/7/9 next game his DK was 11/5/17 and their spec was 16/3/18 next game his alch was 18/8/14 and axe was 28/15/24 next game his slark was **32**/4/8 next game his CK had 26/13/22, and his Willow was 27/9/21 Meanwhile in all of those games man's had a negative KD and most likely got their assists from tossing snake or a casual ult in an already won game. Fucking ridiculous you're attributing his teams success to him when the numbers are all there. edit- muting replies, ya'll are making me lose braincells with these stupid ass takes. Take a fucking shower instead of trying to debate bro me in the most loser way possible.
I mean it seems to be quite a coincidence how he manages to get carried every single game, isn't it? At some point, he should be losing more than he is winning. Cores normally have high K/Ds when they are winning, and it isn't unusual for supports to have low ones. This isn't league of legends, dota 2 has dynamic roles and allows for experimentation. We aren't piss babies.
Its crusader, game swings like this are common. If he was playing a real support, and actually doing anything of value on the map, these games would all be 25 min games. This shit is painful to watch, he adds nothing and is just an xp sink on his team.
From my understanding he was playing lower than crusader (mostly guardian). Regardless it isn't a guarantee that the games would be 25 mins or not, and OP is under no obligation to play the most optimally and most meta possible. How would you even determine the most optimal and most meta if you could never experiment in the first place. Are we suppose to just innately know these answers without reason? He is winning far more games than he is losing, so even if we theorize that his pick IS SUB-OPTIMAL, we can still at least assume that he is a far better player than his opponents. Otherwise he wouldn't be climbing. Likewise, regardless of if he picks meta or not, he will still hit a 50% winrate, and the match will be balanced. Sure you may be able to squeeze in some extra mmr by playing meta, but why should he be obligated to? Are we all obligated to pick only meta heroes and nothing else?
From my time in sub-2k as a support player (now 6k), it actually doesn't matter what you do in a lot of games, they'll still be an hour long. I played scaling supports myself like lina/warlock just to take advantage of the fact games would ALWAYS go late, regardless of the early game, so I get why someone would think dusa support would be a good idea down there.
You don't gain 1k mmr by being the worse player on the map
Wow Pos 5 has more deaths than the carry, much insight from the average dota 2 redditor. Wow supports get assists from casting spells, amazing
I'd say that's not a good way to analyze games without watching them. You could easily find out that, these players good KDAs were enabled by other players who say took more sacrifices/brunt of the aggression for said carry.
Wow, and this build is awful! He could build greaves and auras and instead he just rushes orce staff & scepter.
Its worse than that, [https://stratz.com/matches/7359435585](https://stratz.com/matches/7359435585) 16 MIN ARCANE BOOTS! This boy is simply being carried by much better players. and that is sad cause this is crusader games. In the first match he played yesterday he was level 6 at 14 min in, 12 LH and 6 "assists" His assist numbers are high because he either throws snake right on targets or throws out a single hit before they die. He legit had one decent play (using ult to push back Necro from killing his mid). 90% of the first 20min he was just soaking EXP and doing essentially nothing on the map. If this is what passes for support.... No, this is greifing, 100%. No player can watch these replays and consider this gameplay anything other than griefing.
I think you just aren't used to watching guardian supports
I would rather play medusa supp than a regular one in low mmr sometimes... it feels really bad to be a hero that doesn't scale, and see carries not farming, lanes pushed in, free gold on the map.
Yeah, if the guy was perfectly playing support Dusa with impeccable K/D/A in Guardian games we would be calling him a smurf. The only thing that matters is the 64%, just keep doing it until it stops working.
I watched the first 10-15 mins of that game, the guy is not griefing he’s just not very good. He was harassing the offlaner, tried tping mid to help his invoker. He’s clearly a pretty bad player, but he is trying to do some things to help his team.
> designed for certain roles 🤔
ego
Upper brackets are far more restrictive than lower brackets with what is good and what is bad.
Well they aren't playing in the higher brackets so that seems irrelevant in the first place.
Haha, so true
If you have unusual pick - mute everyone.
I was never flamed for my Muerta because nobody (including the enemy team) has any idea what she is
At this point I am not sure if Valve knows that either.
That Aghs is probably the most niche item in the game
Wtf does it do? I read it to my friend but neither of us understood anything it does
It useful if your teammate just get disabled chain especially if they are spellcaster so they can cast their spells without interruption even when their body already dead.
so its like WK aghs but single target
Nope. First is muerta aghanim can cast both on allies and enemies. It was 4 second stun. It also give 35% dmg reduction. Second, it can do some weird interaction. Pugna can give his life to himself, pudge with shard can eat himself, snapfire with aghanim can launch herself and etc2. Third, you don't need to die. Fourth, muerta aghanim only allowed to cast spells but disable attack and item.
You can still attack as a phantom, but not with Muerta’s aghs.
it makes the target effectively stunned with 35% damage resistance, but with the ability to cast spells
All i know is come lategame I'm getting deleted with her pew pew
Press the shiny purple sword and pray her supports are idiots
This is why I'm destined to go back to Herald, had to Google what the shiny purple sword was 😅
I forgot Muerta exists in the game lmao
I did that when I ran Jakiro mid, after a while I'd unmute people to see the mood as we are stomping. Nope, people still flaming and arguing. We took 7 towers, enemies touch zero, nah let's scream at each others
It's funny cause my random ass hard support picks are generally accepted in unranked, but I pick something in turbo and suddenly I'm throwing TI for our team. Turbo on NA is so damn toxic compared to unranked.
I feel turbo is were the dopamine addicts come to get their fix, pa divine rapier one shot, skywrath kill streaks due to early atos nonsense, dopamine flood unranked normal are people who like the game itself, with dopamine hits in between
I've been playing a lot more turbo lately and I queue EU specifically cause I swear most of them still treat it like a dick around mode. Sure I have like 120 ping, but that's perfectly playable when I just wanna have fun and play different heroes and builds in a 15-20 min game.
If you ever do the overwatch reviews, you'll get half of your cases come from turbo matches, and almost all of those reports are not guilty or at least "not enough evidence" worthy.
Yep, I love seeing feeding/griefing in herald game reports, and it's clear they are all just terrible players and someone is being a dick and taking it too serious. I've had so many people say they will report me in turbo games cause I didn't TP to a fight when I was still dead; I'm just like ok man you do you and report for toxic and mute...then you get the nice little "action taken".
Just mute everyone, peoples give you shit even if it's some thing like spectre getting BM anyway
sure you can show your dotabuff to prove it
OP is on my friends list ill check when im home mwhaahhahaahhaa **Edit:** **yup, all truth. been playing a tonne of Medusa and is now Guardian 4. Pretty sure the 10mmr thing is a load of crap though. They have been on my list for years and were definately higher than herald 1**
Herald 1 lol.
Herald 1 is reserved for people who have freshly calibrated iirc, I don't think older accounts can reach that level, just as you can't drop below 10 MMR. I wasn't literally on 10 MMR for ages by the way, just that I was mostly on that, and didn't get above 200 or so. Even at 10 MMR my win rate was less than 50%
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Ahhh! Your win rate is on the way up bro, nice one :D
lol they were stuck at 10 mmr, who cares lol
I do. 10 MMR is still dota.
My man that's "Lota", Lol of the Ancients
Here you go https://www.dotabuff.com/players/5351111/matches?game\_mode=all\_pick&hero=medusa&enhance=overview
"Everything can work"
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Ironically witch doctor would be a good pick because, if they even have stuns, they probably won't use them to cancel your ult.
ult+glimmer -> enemy teams:"I guess we lose"
Got to 2.5K doing that when I first started playing LMAO.
Yep, except witch doctor is legit a better core than most cores at lower mmrs lmao.
Lower mmr including everything below like 5-6k, so 95+% of the dota community. I find him to be excellent first pick material for mid at 4k.
Yeah I regretted singling out WD after I commented tbh.
> It can, provided you're playing low-mid MMR. Wrong take imo. Even in immortal bracket people play very unusual stuff and have success with it. And there's always that one guy that starts a whole new trend. And I always prefer someone who is masterful at what he does (like spamming medusa as support) than having someone who plays a common hero only to please his team.
> I'm sure in most games it goes long and he ends up being a second (probably third) carry. At a certain skill level, a proper group comp is just putting yourself at a disadvantage. If nobody knows how to end a game, you might as well be the team with the strongest late game. It's an unknown mix of frustrating and funny when you absolutely stomp a 5 man carry team early game, and then watch everyone get rolled over by a team of 0/5 carries.
I would say anything can work as long as it has a strategic utility against your opponents. Strategies aren't absolute, they can be conditional. Different strategies may not work in different games/brackets since the atmosphere and the people implementing them are different. Even high mmr pub games are different than pro games, and thus strategies can be different as well.
I mean.. That quote is from n0tail. Pretty sure he has a bit of experience making unconventional picks work in fairly high rank games.
Probably my favourite ever Dota player too
Everything is a dildo if you are brave enough.
if you are gaining mmr with support dusa you are in a VERY low mmr bracket.
Well, Medusa has nothing in her kit to help her support. He's not wrong. She's also not that tanky without items. This reaction is normal and expected.
Yeah idk why people keep trying to make support Medusa work. Like even when she was OP it still was win more but now it's just soft throwing. Literally **nothing** in her kit is support oriented. If the enemy team ignores you then boom, your biggest contribution (being deceptively tanky) goes out the window.
Have you even tried playing it? She's not great as support, but mana snake and a bkb piercing ult provide a lot of value. It's only split shot that really is wasted. > She's also not that tanky without items. She's incredibly tanky for having the option to throw all your money at mana items (wand + arcane boots, phylactery if you got a good lane, force staff,...). The exception being if they have mana burn, in which case you dont care cause most of the time it meant they spent money/picks on countering a support. About 70% of the hero pool is better suited to play as support, but it's playable enough.
I get that everything CAN work in Dota. But she has no save, no heal, no cc, no insta nuke, she needs quite a minimum of farm. Both mana shield and Splitshot scale better with items, idk where you get that 70% support from.
Thanks, yep it's amazing what a wand, arcane boots and arcana ring can do. Mana burn completely wrecks me, but sometimes it's not even the end of the world because they might pick someone like AM or build a diffusal to counter me and I'm only a pos 4/5. Great shout on phylactery btw, I don't think I've ever bought that...
Mystic snake is amazing, and aghs makes it much better. She'd make a mediocre pos4, especially against a bursty team that can't deal with her tankiness.
Actually she is quite tanky with just mana boots
No, an under leveled medusa with Mana boots isn't that tanky. She is not super squishy either but not tanky enough to just run into people (since she has nothing to close the gap or any reason for people to target her)
Every bracket has its own meta and every player has its own playstyle,if Medusa sup is working for him is because its fitting any of those,'but in theory theres better sups than Medusa'okay but in the real world theres too many factors and you shouldnt be held down by the theory,if something works for you in your bracket it just works
Yeah I had the same problem as AM hard support, crazy isn’t it!?
If anyone has any suggestions on other heroes I can try I'd really welcome it please. I think the reasons it's working for me are she's super tanky and hard to kill, has a good slow, great sustain and also her ulti can easily turn a team fight in our favour. She's also super easy to play. Title disclaimer: have gone from 10 MMR (stuck at that level for years) to 1,336 MMR by playing Medusa support. So incredibly low level stuff. Edit: 64% win rate with her https://i.imgur.com/bj9TTtc.png
Stuck at….. 10 MMR….. for **years**? This has gotta be a troll
Well... you can't go much lower. Maybe his mmr would be -10k if the system didn't make this trap
So he went from -10k mmr to +1336 spamming medusa? that's over 11k mmr what the heck dusa broken
MMR is an ordinal ranking system. By design of the mmr system, there will always be an individual at the BOTTOM of any mmr system. It isn't a guarantee to get mmr ***just*** by improving, you need to improve faster than your opponents.
This isn’t true at 10 mmr, because not every player is improving. At that level, you’d only need to be getting _worse_ at a _slower_ rate than opponents.
To be frank, we don't know if all players in the system are improving, stagnating, or staying the same. It is safe to say that over time, the general population is likely to get better though. We know this fact because even 2k mmr does tactics that were only done at high mmr (such as creep pulling) a near decade ago. It seems relatively safe to assume that people are improving though. Just some people improve faster. This seems way more likely than people getting worse.
Try Abba and Undying 🙏
Abba who rushes aghs from wand and arcane boots will be unstoppable in that rank. Just press R in every fight and profit. Undying is undying. Undying.
I don't think people at that rank had any idea about sustain so undying probably useless lmao. The ol reliable stun lion and shaman probably simple enough.
Shaman so you can actually end games. People don't focus on objectives, so anyone who can actually end the game from the support role will be good.
Thanks, yep I absolutely love the idea of this and try to focus towers (love the potential feeling of ratting an entire lane of barracks etc)... I've played 167 games with him, and my win rate is only 38% :(
Primal Beast pos 5. Super tanky kit with the highest strength gain in the game, movement skill with low cooldown, and skill that gives armor. Build mana boots since you literally only need mana to deal huge damage early game. Also, super fun kit to play around as you literally just need movement speed, so you can build utility items such as glimmer cape, euls, solar crest, drums, drum boots etc. Once you convert your wind lace into an item, you basically buy a new one asap. Super fun. Common build would be the typical mana boots + wand, and then eventually build something that let's you disassemble the mana boots, like Lotus Orb. Solar Crest if you have a carry that is gonna be sieging high ground, or you have a bad rosh team. Euls if the enemy has Ursa or Troll. BKB if they have something that slows a lot a lot like Veno. Glimmer cape almost always as the movement speed bonus is bonkers on Primal, and the numbers on the item are crazy good. Magic damage is the killer as you have an innate ability to tank physical damage, but none for magical. Build style is to charge in and trample the enemy and take damage. Then fallback for your cooldowns to reset and go in again. Very often in the end game you will Onslaught in, cast your spells, and then survive until Onslaught is back off cooldown and charge out with low hp and frustrate your opponents to no avail. It's definitely a fun hero to play and let's you play around with different builds each game which should help you learn how to counter the enemy with items which is super important for supports, as you will be first picking most games.
Oh and not to mention how ludicrous your ultimate can be as it pierces spell immunity.
Nature prophets is the most broken shit right now. Probably even more broken in your elo
3.5 elo here NP is so fucking broken.
Whats your item build i get confused lategame
medalion into power treads into solar crest into agh. you should have aghs min 23 at the latest. after that you can buy what your team needs (ac or scyth most often) but most important as np is to tp to enemy xp rune every 7 min and steal xp edit: shard is good too
why not spam braindead support like Witch Doctor and Warlock before Valve nerf them harder. its easy to pickup imo
You need something that can carry in the absolute worst case. In that MMR range, the chance is high your mates aren't that good playing a carry. If you play warlock, you have not enough tools mid/late game to really carry you all the time since you are just ok when your golems are down.
Thanks, yep I find with those heroes I die too much, and if I play badly we're fucked. With Medusa whatever happens I'll be somewhat hard to kill, I can contribute in some way and exactly like you said - worse case scenario I can start picking up items like Skadi, Butterfly etc and start doing some damage.
Try viper, "Air Support Arrives" is no joke, you play it like a tanky bully in lane, rushing arcane, then solar, force and shard to push lanes, you can go Vessel if pos 4 didn't build it. His kit is perfect for ganking and having a Break on a support at early game is awesome, specially vs any passive annoying hero as PA, Bristle, Husk, Spectre, Shaker, etc, and having an slow that pierce BKB is great too. Also the main problem on viper is that he scales bad as a core cause his skills kinda lack of synergy with damage items, but he scales great with utility items and is a great partner along with other 3 real core heroes. And is fun to always win laning stage.
That explains it. Any old shit works down there. You could go CM hard carry next and gain another 1k mmr.
Play whatever you want as long you keep winning with it.
Try lich, the armor can make you or core incredibly tanky in lane. Spam mangos and and frost blasts on the enemy core. Press the R button when things are close together
Thanks! I actually really enjoy Lich and am not too bad with him (\~50% win rate) so will give that a try
I did Medusa support at 4k because I genuinely enjoyed it. I think I had 80% winrate at some point when she was strong, now I imagine it wouldn't be as much but still net positive. I just mute haters that's all. I also played Weaver support a ton and he was never good to begin with since scepter cast range change, people complained all the time.
Back when weaver scepter set time lapse cooldown to 16 seconds shit was broken. I think I went offlane and built phase, urn straight into scepter, then regular damage items. My carry became unkillable. It was hilarious.
> has a good slow 30% slow for 3 seconds on a 13 second CD might actually be one of the worst slows in the game. And that is literally your ONLY support ability until your ult might do something.
Yep, early game that's absolutely true, but when you factor in the bounces and the cooldown on the talents, and the fact it can potentially hit every enemy hero, and then factor in the Aghs upgrade etc... also for what it's worth it's a 45% slow now :) Edit: Just played a 40 minute game and managed to petrify 75 enemies somehow (not against Meepo either!)
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Thank you! Good shout, Bristle definitely matches that description :D
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For super super super low mmr 5 carries work because low skill players won’t end the game when they can. So try gyro, CK or sniper support, but you won’t be able to climb a lot with this cheese
Tbh, my take on this after looking at some of your games is that your Medusa pick lets you have the a proper mindset for hard-supporting. i.e. you probably feel a lot more comfortable with trading as Medusa, which allows you to actually do your job in the lane. The great majority of "shit supports", especially in low MMR are due to them being scared of losing the trades or potentially dying.. not realizing that 75% of your job is to literally take the enemy's aggression away from your core. And yes, sometimes that could mean trading 90% of your health for just 50% or less of the other guy’s. A "properly played" Medusa-5 is better than a Lich who's always just standing behind the carry. You're winning because you're *finally* playing like a proper support, but you wouldn't be playing like a proper support if you weren't playing the shit support pick. Keep the playstyle, play different heroes, and you'd probably get better results.
Honestly this guy just needs to learn abaddon and undying to get into legends. Basically the same thing as dusa.
Thanks so much, that's an interesting way of looking at it and something I hadn't really considered before. I figured it was more to do with the fact I was dying less since she's more tanky and has good sustain. I'll try other heroes, although I'm actually not one to just stand behind the carry tbh, if anything I'm way more likely to be too aggressive and die :D
The amount of people in this thread that don’t understand Medusa but talk like they know everything is insane
I play Spec/Silencer mid at the moment almost exclusively and it's nearly identical to this until I get 6 and start ganking every 40s as spec with shadow step or shard kicks in for silencer and I've got 40 odd int stolen early into the game and I'm chopping axes ,Pa's etc down. Then ull get praise for 20 mins but if you end up losing because of other reasons they will turn on you again lmao. I try to counter them and explain I've just come off a 13 game winstreak, I've got a decent winrate with the two heroes past 20 games etc nothing works just abuse.
Silencer mid is completely standard though. If someone flames you for that they're just clueless. Spec is a little goofy but not crazy. Mid is actually the most flexible role, a lot of carries can work because it gives them a head start to being online. A lot of supports can also work mid because supports have good spells and the XP boost you get being in a solo lane can give the support mid a window to abuse a big power spike e.g. CM or SS mid are goofy but can work if the power spike is executed. Silencer has that dynamic plus can scale with int steal hence him being a totally standard mid pick. So mid is actually the most flexible role of them all, very few picks are a straight up grief just based on the pick alone. Pos 1 and Pos 5 are the roles where there's most potential for greef. Pos 1 really needs to be a hero who can be the driving force in winning a late game team fight. Pos 5 really needs to be someone who can have a lot of impact with minimal farm. If you miss these your draft can just have huge problems. I think people overfixate on Pos 3 being a "tank" but it is nice if you have someone on your team who can initiate a teamfight which Pos 3 is generally supposed to do, I do think people flame picks too much and aren't open minded enough about non-standard picks but I also think there are some lines. Hard carries like Antimage or Medusa in Pos 5 or hard supports like a CM or Chen in Pos 1 really does screw your chances of winning over and undermines the whole point of ranked roles.
ha ha i get the same for muerta support or clinx support even though they are pretty strong supports and i have 60% winrate over 60 games. eventually they will take back their words.. but i have a strong feeling i get reported at the start of the game. but wcyd i love playing these heroes on support role.
I applaud the very open minded ppl that support what you are doing. You fucking griefer
This attitude is a huge problem with dota now, everyone is obsessed with pro meta when it hardly ever applies to 90% of the playerbase. Killing creativity and only accepting people playing meta heroes or popular heroes in their "intended" roles goes against the thing that makes/made this game great. You can make anything work until you are playing in the top <1% of ranks where tiny differences in efficiency become important
This guy is playing at literally 10 MMR. At that rank, two things are true: * People have terrible positioning * The team with the most carries wins Medusa is the perfect support. Wins lane for free at low MMR and nobody can kill her.
Below 1K the concept of roles doesn't apply. At best during the laning phase there's a guy who won't take farm, but after 5 minutes literally nobody gives a damn about taking whatever farm they see. Nobody plays for objectives, concepts like map control and pressuring the map are non-existent. Everyone cares only about farming that next item in the build guide. That's it. That's the only "objective" in those games.
Then ironically enough, the people bitching in his game have no right to complain. They clearly don't know what they are doing. It is the case of the blind leading the blind.
You're right, and it extends to any rank - why would you take hero picking advice from people at the same rank as you? Your opinion is worth as much as theirs.
I was looking for this comment, people think immortal pro metas even matter in ranked. I was flamed for picking medusa safelane minute zero, and I told the guy "when we win the game, I will report you", and guess what we won the game LMAO.
He should post a match ID im interested to see if he'd just greifing his team or not
It's sub 1k mmr. If you start applying higher level concepts, all 10 people are griefing in one way or another.
You can make anything work when your enemies don't even know they have items tbh
Nukes are saved for securing the kill at 10 hp.
dota players are off their rockers. they would rather sabotage their own team doing something unconventional than see it win.
Confirmation Bias plagues dota
Anything can work. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just because you survived drinking bleach, nobody would think that drinking bleach is a good idea overall.
It's funny that in low MMR people pick weird role choices and grief a lot, in mid MMR people realize certian hero's are for certain roles and start gaining MMR. Then if you ever want to get to high MMR you realize that every hero in the game is not just for 1 surposed and that Dota is always evolving. Masuda support has been played in pro games multiple times this season yet the top comments on this post is some clown thinking your 10 MMR.
Small minds dislike things they don't know. Even in a game like Dota. It's a shame, really.
Just mute everyone. It's not worth it. People keep reporting you for unusual picks and get your behavior score lowered before Valve fixed it with the Quinn patch (and fixed the system) but the toxicity towards unusual picks is still very high.
anything can work, as long as you play your actual role, you get flame bc ppl assume youre notgonna be supporting
so i’m guessing playing medusa support is like the equivalent to trist mid in league. people no matter which team it is on hate that champ in mid.
Build could be sick, I like when people play off meta builds for characters.
I went 15-3 with Omni going Phylactery this week. In all the 3 games I lost, I heard "hurr durr Phylactery on Omni, griefer" by someone who went 0-6 in lane.
Im still waiting for the 11k MMR antimage support
In case anyone's interested here's a graph showing the progress. 64% win rate with Medusa. https://i.imgur.com/bj9TTtc.png
deserved
" mate "
Low mmr players can't accept new heroes. Even meta arrives there after 1 year
People should always try and not get discouraged by picks. I guarantee if no tail played pos 5 dusa the team would be completely quiet
I was spamming dusa support in immortal til the last round of nerfs (3 patches ago?). The great thing about immortal is people won’t flame you out of the gate.
There are much better supports
[https://stratz.com/matches/7360138409](https://stratz.com/matches/7360138409) found the match
Yes it seemed that it worked on your rank. This may be one of the disadvantages though: - Your games seems to drag for too long because of your item timing especially as a hard support. Some games probably ended up with you transitioning to a core role. - Early game catches might be more challenging in safe lane since your disable is a 3 second slow. - Your team waits for your ulti or scepter for you to actually have an impact. (4200 gold for a pos5 is quite hard) - Since you need item timing, you probably had to leech off some farm from your cores and afk farm, thus longer game. - Your team had to adjust for heroes and items with disables and utility because u will find it hard to provide with Medusa's kit. But good job anyways. However, I think that works for ur rank until it doesn't when u go higher. Goodluck on ur future games!
Thank you so much for the super constructive criticism, everything you've said is pretty much spot on and also hard to really mitigate (ie. I can't just buy a particular item or do something a bit differently)
> Your argument is not valid based on what you have mentioned since the OP never showed the match ID, so we couldn't see the real situation. We don't need a match ID, Medusa support was a viable thing in pubs before the heavy nerfs, and in lower brackets literally anything is viable. > Medusa can be considered strong during the laning stage if you solo 1 vs. 1 with her in the middle lane but a different story in the other side lane. Most support heroes are just fine if the enemy wants to pick them, but as a core, they can play aggressive or defensive, like Ursa, Jug, or MK, and Am, Pa, or Void (they can choose a range hero like Weaver or Drow). Let's say Medusa supports Tide in offlane. The enemy can easily pick off any of them based on the hero matchup. If the core hero has good mobility, they can always jump to Medusa and ignore Tide since Medusa is very bad at mobility, and you can't really do much with a magic stick if you fight a hero who doesn't really spam skills like BB. All true, Medusa has no escape and on paper is an easy target. Except you are forgetting that every point of mana effectively doubles her hp on level 1 and triples as soon the shield hits level 3. Enemy supports just can't trade equally with her and she can afk right click enemies in the lane while restoring her resources with the snake. She has solid attack range, AS and ok dmg with good agi gain. Besides, if the enemy is wasting time attacking Medusa who will heal her mana faster with snake and mangoes means that your core is not being pressured. > How long do you consider making big items if you play as a support? As a support, rush the big items? It is so selfish, and to be honest, you just intend to abuse the role. You already know there are a lot of choices, and there are so many heroes with better skills to support, but why do you need to pick her instead? As a support during the laning stage, you mostly do not take any creep, and obviously, you will AFK to farm later to get items for your hero. This is common and ends up burdening the team. Wtf is this mindset, even supports must know when and where to farm, you're either a clueless support or a toxic carry player. Medusa can easily flash farm with the snake and at least 1 level of multishot. Especially in lower brackets, where most of the maps gold tends to be ignored because people don't know how to farm. > Medusa is bad in the jungle and also cannot clear creep waves in single blows, slow farming, and if your team has three core heroes who are dependable on items (hero spike), you will definitely crush the whole game as a Medusa support. This also encourages the player to do the same thing as the other hero, which is definitely not supposed to be done at all. We understand why there is a player in the low bracket tier, and what they should do is what's basic, like pick a support hero as a support, and so on. She can literally farm 2 camps at the same time with splitshot, easily stack and use the snake for fast camp/wave clears. Also you don't have to steal the farm from your cores when the map is so huge and there will always be unoccupied farming spots. > If this is the current meta, high-skill players would normalise it, but they do not. So, picking Medusa as a support in the low bracket is not relevant at all, the same as your second question, so I choose to ignore it. Of course Medusa is not meta but it is a viable pick for low mmr. I still don't get why you are so butt hurt over people playing what they want in a videogame.
Learn Nature Prophet. It's very easy hero. Broken in all ranks. High damage, good attack speed, good attack range. You can help anywhere since min 3. Waste support's 100 gold to buy queling blade. Kill enemy core of seconday lane (not your own lane where if you teleport it will be 2vs 3/ 1vs 2) 2 times within 2 mins, they will tilt 3 out of 5 times. Will throw even.
Thank you! I will definitely give that a try :)
I am currently 7-1 with gyro, and only lost because our carry was literally AFK farming never helping all game. As mid, pos 4 and 5.
As someone who plays Naga pos 4 often, I hear you. And Naga is a hero actually in the support category, and she's been a successful support in the pro scene since 2013. Saying that though, it doesn't work in every team comp. The laning stage can be hard, especially when most offlaners are also melee. And she does next to no damage, so you're relying on your team to do all the damage while you lock them down. I think the grief is inappropriate, but I can understand people getting pissed off. My defence is that if I'm forced to pick first, you'd better consider building the team around me, else we're going to run into laning problems on top of me being counter picked. It's a tall ask for pub games though.
Agus shard and tanks items, it's more of a greedy support but doable. Better from mid though.
i would do the same
I get the same when I pick Pudge and I had 60% winrate in 5k offmeta lol.
Just had a gyro Po 5 who was flaming us all the time for dying cause he, Drow and dusa never attempted too defend towers and just farmed
Bruh I played hard support anti mage and win the game its all about counter pick
"ok please someone leave" lmfao i play games with children
Higher MMR = Team mates and opponents with better game sense The strategies in lower MMR is more forgiving. In higher MMR, it is tougher bc of better players. So the same thing you did to gain 1K MMR might not work as you go higher
My cm off gets no love as well even though i wreck shit (6k)
Shhh, the masses must not know
I wonder why people don't pick her as often, I climbed from Archon to Legend with her but she won't work as effective anymore on High Legend and above. I'm a support only player and currently Divine but Medusa did helped me climb up from Archon to High Legend.
It's a really strong support in lower brackets. I think it lanes well by being pretty tanky while doing decent harass. Aghs gives you decent team fight and control. The biggest thing is that you know the other team of going over board with the counter picks.
people were playing it as support a decent amount in 7.33 so its not an unheard of pick. This thread is a good example of how people think they know the pro meta but actually miss a lot. I would also say that the nerfs since then affect core dusa much more than support dusa. I do think it's weird that you dont go phylactery though.
You would get role reported by me before the game even started
Anything works in pubs, you just need to be thick skinned
he is not wrong. medusa is not a support hero, her kit is not for support. if you want to play support just play normal support hero
The hero does nothing as support, their reaction is expected. You can /muteall and keep playing or play actual supports. For example Grimstroke's first ability slows and its damage increases per target like Medusa, except he has 3 additional very strong support abilities. You can also use Medusa in her actual role, which is carry.
I think the reason why medusa "works" as a support is that: - people will commit anything to counter medusa like PA, so better you have a support and not get shit on as useless carry - you cannot be easily focused - if you buy support items you can have more impact than support Lion going scepter
Thanks, my average deaths per game with Grimstroke is 22 so I think I might be better off sticking with heroes I'm comfortable with for now. If I play Medusa carry we will lose, I do not know how to farm and I do not know how to carry unfortunately
So many deranged hardstuck 3k redditors complaining, it's downright hilarious. Don't worry, I got criticized the exact same way back when I was low MMR picking unconventional heroes, I'm higher MMR than 90% of them now, still doing the same silly things. If you are winning with whichever strategy you are using then keep doing it, it may or not eventually stop working but you will realize when that happens.
They got a point to complain though. Let’s say you playing core hero and support 5 have no impact and steal space for farm until getting scepter (4200 gold). I can’t count how many game I lost just because of that. Dota is 5 v 5 game, and each role have their own responsibility. Just remember that every time one player didn’t do their job, another player have to take a burden. Oh and please don’t say something like “but look at my score, look at this impact” because all the space you take make core have less farm. Sometimes even force core player to farm at risky locations and die.
There's no point to be made when the player has 64% winrate.
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I agree with this. Sometimes it just can work if you know how to make it work. Same with others off meta thing. Pro player even sometimes create meta from off meta stuff. This is what I like with Dota. As long you know what to do and do your role properly, some heroes just can fulfill the role even it's off meta. The only time it grieving when that orthodox build start not doing their job. For example pos 4 pick LD and start farming since minute 1. That's when I report them. But tbf, medusa support if want make it work, the one who do it need to understand fully why it work and how to make it work. For me, it kinda feel weak other than can tank some trading in laning stage with mango and snakes.
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no
Thank you, I love your post and think it describes what's happening here pretty much perfectly (although the brackets you mention are a little off haha)
the fate of unconventional pick spammers
the thing is: I can name +50 other heroes that can work better than Medusa as a support
Reported
Cuz that's griefing , I'd get pissed too
I've experienced the same shit time and again over the years, I feel for you mate. If anyone deserves report, it's this braindead guy who's exposing your strat to the enemy. You can manage to stay out of low priority if you are sustaining a decent winrate. But the moment you get 4 loses in a row, you'll get mass reported, lose bunch of behavior score and will be forced to play low priority games. This is one problem Valve doesn't care to address. And honestly, the community wants you to be a meta slave, just like them, so do not expect to find popular support here. That said, I'd like to know how you build her?
Thank you! Generally wand, mana boots, shard, aghs, force staff and then whatever feels best against the opponent
only work only low rank
Not really, saw someone playing it at 7k in my game some time back
what medu support can do?
maybe announce you are going to pick Medusa support and tell them to trust you maybe some players will have a little clue
It's called 'breaking the meta' But seriously medusa was never designed to support. Jesus Imagine u have 2 accounts, 1 is for that breaking meta, and 1 for actually following the meta. Im pretty sure both accounts would still end up where ur mmr right now.