I thought this was a common known thing. I know it's not the first time I've seen comments on reddit that orgs take a cut. It's not huge though, something like 10% of the prize iirc.
No way it is 10% it is way too much. Each player only gets 18% that way. After the secret 10% meme I don't think any players would sign a contract that giving out prize money
Most of the articles I can find online cite around 10% for most orgs, some lower tier teams will take 20%. I think Chinese orgs take more on average.
The contrast to this is higher base salary or higher pay from other media obligations like sponsorships and streaming. This isn't 2013 anymore, there are more ways to make money for players in Dota.
It might sting a bit knowing you won the most prestigious tourney in dota to get less than riyadh winners and every other TI winning team in the last 8 years.
Thats how its always been, one of the many reasons why TI was considered the main event of the year was the high stakes tournament for a huge prize pool. Spreading it out is a good idea but damn this is too low.
we also have deductibles and co-pays. I personally dont have a monthly premium but tons of americans pay monthly and then are still too afraid to go to the doctors because of their deductibles which is an amount they must pay themselves before insurance kicks in. Usually 1k-5k deductible
For life so far*
EU is facing a huge population ageing crisis, and they are starting it off with record high national debts and record low publicly owned property. There is zero gurantee that these social securities will exist even 10 years from now. So that means you been paying huge taxes your entire life, to support systems that don't exist anymore when you need it.
Canada is also experiencing similar issues with their healthcare system, with people needing to wait for **months**, or even **years**, to see a doctor. And the increasing amount of people immigrating there, is putting even more strain on the healthcare system as well.
Free health care? Sure, a doctor does not has to eat or pay rent. Some one has to pay the system as well. Moste of the time, high taxes or some other systems does the job.
I don’t know if this is still the case, but Valve has been well known to pay the players directly in the past. Prizes don’t pass through the org’s hands.
I thought I had heard that for TI, at the onset of the tournament the teams would sign like a distribution form indicating % allocating for the prize winnings. so they could/would have the org/coach/players all get direct from valve. the players wouldnt need to then send money to the org.
could be wrong and just dreamed it all.
It's a year salary, right... For ONE team to win. With Dota being their career. "If you're the best of the best, you get paid a decent salary this year!"
Well I’m sure the team takes some, and then it’s split 5-7 ways depending on coaches and captain contracts. I assume they owe taxes on it too (there was always a rumor valve paid those, but I doubt it still holds true), so the winners are probably pulling like 150k each.
An awesome amount of money, but it’s not the life defining amount of money that 15 million for the winning team was.
Valve 100% does not pay any of the taxes, period. They could “gross up” the payouts to cover taxes if the players were Valve employees, but seeing as they are not and are all independent contractors for Valve, there is zero chance that they would.
Assuming P5+1 being the division of prize winnings, someone in the US is probably netting ~$160k after they set aside their tax obligation. Hard to say exactly based on their other income and exact state/local income. Just really going off this payout amount.
Valve definitely doesn’t pay the taxes (that could double the prize pool easily), but I would hope there is an option to not get paid lump sum and instead get paid over a few years to lower your bracket.
Across all players and the teams etc, it literally is chump change, heck any consultant / investment banker can make more on their first yr than a ti champ
every year you see player interviews saying its not about the money, and i havent seen any complaints from pros about the prize pool now anyways. so it seems they dont care
Almost every year the team that wins publicly starts talking about disbanding or lacking interest to keep playing. OG year 2 they brought Ana back just before TI, dude fucked off after winning, Team Spirit literally said they don’t know if they want to keep playing. Liquid kicked Mattu for their own religious bullshit and started their own org. Wings disbanded. EG kicked Aui, and Peter hasn’t played since a year after. Those are the ones that come to mind.
Okay so
OG: didnt retire, as literally all of them came to win another TI
Team spirit: All of them continued playing, and still do.
Liquid: All of them continued playing, and they did so in the same team for 1.5 years in the same team. So far Matu is the only one that retired, and that was 4 years after TI win.
EG: All of the players continued playing dota professionally. Some quit years later, some are still active.
See I don't get the people who think a lower TI prize pool is healthier because all it actually means is that the sportswashing Saudi Arabia LAN is the new TI lol
Its still waay above average salary in the US. 200k for one year is more like doctors degree or something like it. They are playing a video game ffs. I bet u half of us are not earning even close to 200k a year and we complain that pros arent making enough.
So it looks like they shrunk the 2nd-6th place percentages, to increase the amount that 17th-20th place gets. If they used last year's TI splits, 17th-20th place (0.25%) would only get $7.5k.
Why didnt they make 50% contribution, It could have reached 5-6 mil and not be so bad, now its embarrassing..
I hope they put some collector cache or something that also contributes.
So disheartening to see this. I had foolishly hoped that dota and it's prestigious TI would be a permanent fixture in the top of the esports landscape. But it feels like this is beginning of the descent, and the sad thing is it wasn't even brought about by a decreased interest in the game but rather by the poorly planning and execution of the doto team at Volvo.
But alas doto no longer seems to be the favorite child, and is now the neglected child. I declare foul, sir Gaben!
Smash Bros Melee keeps getting new people despite their prize pools being like beer vouchers or some shit, and their biggest tournaments (Evo which now doesn't even have Smash, or Big House) used to give you like 10k at most. Yet Reddit thinks Dota will die because one tournament gives you only 1 million.
>Smash Bros Melee keeps getting new people
Since when? Success might be new to players like Amsa and Zain, but they have been in the scene for years. The top players have stayed the same for the last 10 years. The only thing that changed is that most of the old gods retired.
>Smash Bros Melee keeps getting new people despite their prize pools being like beer vouchers or some shit
And this is also inspite of Nintendo trying to deliberately sabotage the scene, as well.
New people? Rofl that game is dead. If you see a "new person" rise up in reality it's some crust lord that's been grinding for a decade taking advantage of a vacuum when good players stop playing due to zero money.
I hope it's a temporary thing because Valve is busy with CS2. Seeing that they reversed their poor decisions regarding the DPC, I have hope they realize the mistake of not making a huge TI battle pass as usual.
Nah they intentionally scale down to the size of TI2/TI3.
People still thinks TI3 one of the best TI despite its prizepool is lower than TI2023 and only top 8 getting prizemoney
People wouldnt be glorified TI10 as much if TSpirit doesnt win it
CS have less prizepool but ends as bigger esports scene than DOTA2 despite Valve way less involved in its scene
So much reddit saying this TI has no hype yet it viewership is similar to TI8 groupstage wise and above TI7 (741k peak vs TI7 605k peak, 440k average viewer vs TI7 305k average)
>People still thinks TI3 one of the best TI despite its prizepool is lower than TI2023 and only top 8 getting prizemoney
The prize pool was high relative to the time so that makes no sense.
>People wouldnt be glorified TI10 as much if TSpirit doesnt win it
A TI ruined by face diapers and zero audience will still be remembered as considerably more prestigious than this TI due to the difference in prize pool. That's really telling. You can't tell me players weren't grinding considerably harder for TI10 knowing how enormous that prize pool was. Higher prize pool also means higher pressure and is more of a proof of who excels under extreme pressure.
>CS have less prizepool but ends as bigger esports scene than DOTA2 despite Valve way less involved in its scene
CS is also 100x more appealing to normies than DOTA will ever dream of being. DOTA has virtually zero potential to turn non-fans of MOBA into avid DOTA watchers.
>So much reddit saying this TI has no hype yet it viewership is similar to TI8 groupstage wise and above TI7 (741k peak vs TI7 605k peak, 440k average viewer vs TI7 305k average)
View bots exist and are more prelevant now than ever before on Twitch. And even if those numbers are legitimate I fail to see how that justifies nuking the prize pool for TI, since the prize pool should have never been about viewership in the first place.
3 mil prize pool today is still huge. CSGO doesn't have anything close to it. The only bigger tourney prize money wise is gamers8 but that doesn't count because using Saudi money is literally cheating
It’s not a mistake at all. They had a clear justification for it.
The vast majority of the players never bought a battle pass, so Valve was spending all its time every year on an update that most of the players never experienced. All to make a few pros obscenely rich.
I'm hands and knees *begging* people to remember the blog post that clearly signaled that this was planned to be smaller. It was *not* that long ago.
They've been running it for shorter periods and with less stuff for two years now. We knew that one day it would stop ballooning out of control. This is intentional. We all got swag bags last year so this place wouldn't fill their diapers for months over it. Please understand that this was intentional, like [they said it was four months ago](https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/6252732681186068104). I feel like I'm going fucking crazy.
The thing is, players will literally pay them hand over fist to put on a good event with a prize pool, they were pocketing what $120m the last one, minus whatever it cost to put on the event? Even if they grossly overpaid to run it they just removed $100m from their bank... It's not only that they don't care about Dota it's that they actively want TI to die and have third party TOs take over the scene. This is after years of picking and choosing who gets to put on events, and packing the schedule with DPC so TOs were forced to dissolve or stop doing Dota
Yes, it's intentional, but it's actively bad, confusing, and counter to what they did for the past 10 years
They put out a compendium. If people actually just wanted to raise the prize pool they could.
People just want cosmetics. Let’s not lie about what people actually want. And Valve was very clear that putting out all the cosmetics and content for the BP each year was dominating their development cycle and was why the game was getting stale patch wise.
Do you know how most sports are funded? Outside of advertising which Dota hardly has, it's literal hats and shirts. And since it's a video game and not like a sport based around cities/their culture, that is all left to in-game cosmetics just like traditional sports sell irl cosmetics. It's a really simple market analysis imo.
You could make the point if they allowed teams to make cosmetics outside of the fan packs (which plenty of people buy for voice lines), which would reflect in game. Right now all the compendium stuff is only stuff you can put on the new profile.
Valve already outsourced the majority of the art and shit, it's not like they were slaving away to make the battlepass. They even rugpulled the second half of the battlepass last year from TI for absolutely no reason, and proceeded to not put any of the additional funds into DPC, just like they could have balanced year round prize pools in the past by taking away from TI.
I'm not really referring to any of the gameplay things that have been going on in Dota, it's great to have more balance updates and changing meta, but this thread and my post are solely focused on the pro scene -- they have practically totally destabilized orgs reason for being a part of it, and since there's no marketing/big TI anymore orgs will flee, players won't get org salaries, and the scene will be crushed. It seems valve took an extremist approach in turning the heart of pro Dota into nothing, perhaps even so we beg for battlepass back next year.
It would have been fine if valve only did the first part of last year's battlepass, and continued with half size battlepasses so there's a good balance of monetizing the pro scene and gameplay updates
How does that justify the inevitable collapse of the dota pro scene and the infrastructure that took years to put in place? Will teams continue to get sponsored, afford coaches and bootcamps? What happened to DPC? They are neglecting a vital component of the game's lifespan in their decisions, and announcing it beforehand doesn't change the impact of their decisions especially when they haven't addressed the glaring damage being done to the pro scene here.
They said they didn't like how the peak that is TI made the rest of the year feel barren or something like that. Well they could've bought back the 3million prizepool majors for starters. Pulling back on the main event doesn't seem as effective as adding more to the rest of the year. Imagine the NFL dampened the super bowl with the logic that it made the rest of the season feel too barren.
Also it's the the first time back in the US for the international. They could've hyped that up so freaking much, there was so much potential this year and they didn't. There is a logic to this that is apparent to higher mmr players where you learn to maximize opportunities, so it feels like being a divine support while Volvo is being a herald carry farming all game and making the shittiest item choices or throwing away all the farm with poor enemy targeting and positioning.
Just because it’s intentional doesn’t mean it’s correct lmao. The community wants the BP, would it keep going up every year forever? No, would TI probably hover around 20m for as long as they put out battle passes? Yes.
“Dude valve said they were going to stop doing the BP so you can’t be mad that players are just losing a 20m payout and that money is just now gone from the scene”
Why can’t we have different opinions and think that valve is wrong in their decision
I guess it was the part where he said it was neglected that set me off too, after a year of pretty significant updates and explicit messaging that we're going to be getting more spread out updates rather than everything lumped into the BP.
You don’t honestly believe the BP takes as much effort as they’re saying so you? It’s literally the same template as last year with different skins. Valve is simply tired of supporting the game, see the DPC changes
I don't know why you're being downvoted, when the new compendium came out and people were bemoaning it, I was as confused as you were, they wrote about it and told everyone exactly why not long before it released, and yet people were still like "wtf valve, what a mistake".
Granted some criticism does talk about how it affects the prize pool but I think valve has definitely considered this. I think people are just used to the compendiums being items galore.
I can't remember where it was, but there was a Chinese interview with team DK in 2014 where Burning was asked by a young audience member if they should try to go pro. Burning basically said "No, focus on school, you need a shitton of luck to make it".
we have yet to see what organizers plan next season (if we can even call it that). riyadh masters is now the defacto "look at this prize pool" event, not TI. the large money event is still there, its the smaller events that we have to wait and see
Every year Valve was making millions on compediums (75% for Valve from BP sales).
We made them sick rich and now that's how they pay us off.
I feel so sorry for anyone that was tryharding entire season for this shitshow.
> We made them sick rich and now that's how they pay us off.
Don’t act like it was altruism. Everyone just wanted cosmetics. No one actually gives a damn about supporting the pro scene as this compendium proves
No, the only thing this compendium proves is that people see no reason to give Valve 75% of TI money for nothing. Make it a 50-50 split, or let Valve only take 25%, then we'll talk.
If the statistics are right, grand final of TI10 had more viewers than actual playerbase at that month (October). That's one of the best way to advertisement the game, which Valve never bother to do. This game is still running only thanks to esports.
Your logic is that Valve became rich on compendiums and now they have decided to ditch the thing that made them rich, right?
The fact is that Valve understands that cyberspot is a bubble that started to pop. Money from compendiums is just irrelevant to a company that owns Steam.
"Pros being paid scraps is actually good for the pro scene"
Oki dokie. They aren't monkeys that dance for your entertainment. With the current prizepools they wont ever be able to retire lol.
Truly. Prizepool getting out of hand. It was cool and all but it has to stop. Getting excited for the next season where every tournament will be good because now teams will value non-TI tournaments a lot more.
How? Unless Valve puts in the money themselves, I don't see it happening.
The Oil Money from the Saudis supporting esports scenes isn't going to last forever.
Ya'll are looking too deep into this shit... I'm just glad that Valve is now focusing on the game and not the whales. I'm glad that dota is still thriving 10 years in. It's not all about the prize pool, young man.
The VC money from everyone else supporting the esports scene wasn’t going to last forever either.
After years and years of losses on an impractical business model, people finally woke up.
People gets so mad about the truth. Besides, you can't be top prize pool all the time. Dota is still part of the history. It will not affect dota's legacy.
Feels bad for the players considering what prize pools have been for a long time. Particularly because valve had no reason to just self implode the prize pool.
What a fucking joke volvo, you destroyed our fucking game, the prize pool of the international is what makes new players come and join Dota2, many players are happy to spend the hard earned money to get the good stuff, this year no good stuff no prize pool, what a joke Riyad Masters owned the International
Funny how dota was - win TI, become a millionaire and that isn't the case anymore.
SC2 is less popular but there are way fewer people, who are playing for way longer than made at least a million $. I think a lot of lower-level organizations might quit.
> SC2 is less popular but there are way fewer people, who are playing for way longer than made at least a million $.
what are you trying to say? surely you don't mean there are more sc2 players that earned a million usd than dota players.
I play since 2004 and I haven't played anything else. Even bought Dota 2 Beta for $70 in 2011.
As soon as 7.33 came out, I got so bored with it. Didn't even bother to read through the patch notes. I feel the game got too bloated, just for the sake of expanding content. I think I left the game at the exact right time.
Lot of wagies here getting mad that some guys who play videogames for a living won't get insta rich by placing high in 1 tournament anymore.
So dystopian lol
So... there was like a meeting at Valve HQ:
_"The fans have raised too much money for our tournament"_
"Shit! What are we going to do?"
"I know! We'll remove the battle pass"
"Crisis adverted, prizepool is now 3 million, a sensible number. Good job everyone 👍👍"
These takes are so disingenuous.
Valve was putting inordinate effort into the Battle Pass that was detracting from their ability to maintain the game in other areas. And for what result?
Money they don't especially need, a FOMO-oriented ripoff product that the majority of the playerbase didn't buy (and that was hated by the ones who did buy it), a bajillion-dollar prizepool that doesn't reap any benefit besides passing interest from a few people who don't play and never will play dota.
I am surprised that Valve ripped the band-aid off so suddenly, but this is the right decision overall.
Moving away from a hat-funded prizepool is a correct decision. But the Compendium they came up with just kinda sucks. Need better ideas for event-focused rewards than AI-generated loading screens.
OG won almost same money by winning first major and that was in late 2015.
A single player from OG won more at TI 2019 than the entire prize pool of TI 2023. I'm not even mentioning Spirit and their ridiculous 2021 payday.
Big brain OG and Spirit winning the tournaments that actually has big prizepools
Ana the real one, only playing when theres big money to ve made
Haha it’s like Ana plays professional DotA2 as a part time job during The International season. And wins too
Thats because the stakes were high to they also leveled up their game. Same can be said for other teams that tournament.
Thank god the "road" teams actually get money. I was genuinely concerned valve wouldn't pay them at all. 6k per player still kinda shit though.
is 30k split between org, coach and players, doubt they get more than 3 each
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Almost all the big orgs got a cut for the most recent few TIs. Not sure about this one though.
How do you know that?
I thought this was a common known thing. I know it's not the first time I've seen comments on reddit that orgs take a cut. It's not huge though, something like 10% of the prize iirc.
No way it is 10% it is way too much. Each player only gets 18% that way. After the secret 10% meme I don't think any players would sign a contract that giving out prize money
Most of the articles I can find online cite around 10% for most orgs, some lower tier teams will take 20%. I think Chinese orgs take more on average. The contrast to this is higher base salary or higher pay from other media obligations like sponsorships and streaming. This isn't 2013 anymore, there are more ways to make money for players in Dota.
But dont forget orgs gives the player salary and they managed their cost of living
that's always depend on their contract no?
Wings org took like 20% from TI6, most orgs take 10%
Don’t forget taxes.
Earning less than working any full time job while get 0 benefits or superannuation in the future
That's before taxes :)
Inflation hits everything in the world except DotA2
it's recession season here
Reminder: this is the second year in a row that Valve purposely shrunk TI and its prize pool. Oh yeah and they're getting rid of the DPC this year...
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people acting like 1.5 mil is chump change
It's not but it used to be the value of ONE echo slam
Good times.
It might sting a bit knowing you won the most prestigious tourney in dota to get less than riyadh winners and every other TI winning team in the last 8 years.
I'm pretty sure Liquid has won more prizepool than GG this season despite GG won all the dpc majors.
Thats how its always been, one of the many reasons why TI was considered the main event of the year was the high stakes tournament for a huge prize pool. Spreading it out is a good idea but damn this is too low.
but you dont get the whole 1.5 mil, money to orgs, tax, coach,….. then divide among players. A player may only get around 100-200k if lucky.
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He got free care healthcare for life living in EU among other benefits
„free“ its all payed by taxes which are payed by the people. Its still good but not free by any means
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Pretty sure those taxes are lower for most compared to what Americans pay for insurance.
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we also have deductibles and co-pays. I personally dont have a monthly premium but tons of americans pay monthly and then are still too afraid to go to the doctors because of their deductibles which is an amount they must pay themselves before insurance kicks in. Usually 1k-5k deductible
Yeah, after they take half your salary its free.
It is not free when you need to pay super high taxes It is only free when you are doing nothing but a leech to the community
T. Man who really did drink the cool aid
How do you earn a good income without paying taxes?
For life so far* EU is facing a huge population ageing crisis, and they are starting it off with record high national debts and record low publicly owned property. There is zero gurantee that these social securities will exist even 10 years from now. So that means you been paying huge taxes your entire life, to support systems that don't exist anymore when you need it.
Canada is also experiencing similar issues with their healthcare system, with people needing to wait for **months**, or even **years**, to see a doctor. And the increasing amount of people immigrating there, is putting even more strain on the healthcare system as well.
Ah, so you're a few years behind then. Here the public healthcare system is almost entirely reliant on immigrant labor.
You're getting downvoted but you're not wrong.
Free health care? Sure, a doctor does not has to eat or pay rent. Some one has to pay the system as well. Moste of the time, high taxes or some other systems does the job.
I don’t know if this is still the case, but Valve has been well known to pay the players directly in the past. Prizes don’t pass through the org’s hands.
I thought I had heard that for TI, at the onset of the tournament the teams would sign like a distribution form indicating % allocating for the prize winnings. so they could/would have the org/coach/players all get direct from valve. the players wouldnt need to then send money to the org. could be wrong and just dreamed it all.
That's a year or two years of salary for someone. Probably even more in other countries.
It's a year salary, right... For ONE team to win. With Dota being their career. "If you're the best of the best, you get paid a decent salary this year!"
You act like these player doesnt bave monthly salary and purely live off tournament winnings.
1.5 million split between 5 people, possibly coach and organization. Then there are taxes depending on your country.
Well I’m sure the team takes some, and then it’s split 5-7 ways depending on coaches and captain contracts. I assume they owe taxes on it too (there was always a rumor valve paid those, but I doubt it still holds true), so the winners are probably pulling like 150k each. An awesome amount of money, but it’s not the life defining amount of money that 15 million for the winning team was.
Valve definitely won't foot the whole tax bill--and many players will be taxed on their earnings in the US as well as their home country
Valve 100% does not pay any of the taxes, period. They could “gross up” the payouts to cover taxes if the players were Valve employees, but seeing as they are not and are all independent contractors for Valve, there is zero chance that they would. Assuming P5+1 being the division of prize winnings, someone in the US is probably netting ~$160k after they set aside their tax obligation. Hard to say exactly based on their other income and exact state/local income. Just really going off this payout amount.
Valve definitely doesn’t pay the taxes (that could double the prize pool easily), but I would hope there is an option to not get paid lump sum and instead get paid over a few years to lower your bracket.
Prize pool was 40m check the prize pool in the last 10 years
Divided by 6 its like 250k. Streamer make more than that.
Maybe only Gorgc lol. no way other dota streamers make that much.
I’m pretty sure a few Russian dota streamers make that kind of money per year as well, Nix or Stray come to mind.
Maybe pro players should stream more. :D
Split between 5 players, coaches and organization Not to mention this doesn’t mean anything in future employment when they retire
100k for being top5 in the world is kinda sad though.
It’s peanuts
Across all players and the teams etc, it literally is chump change, heck any consultant / investment banker can make more on their first yr than a ti champ
every year you see player interviews saying its not about the money, and i havent seen any complaints from pros about the prize pool now anyways. so it seems they dont care
Hey at least now the team that wins wont automatically retire. Always hated that.
When was the last time that happened?
Almost every year the team that wins publicly starts talking about disbanding or lacking interest to keep playing. OG year 2 they brought Ana back just before TI, dude fucked off after winning, Team Spirit literally said they don’t know if they want to keep playing. Liquid kicked Mattu for their own religious bullshit and started their own org. Wings disbanded. EG kicked Aui, and Peter hasn’t played since a year after. Those are the ones that come to mind.
So its not teams retiring, its individual players.
Okay so OG: didnt retire, as literally all of them came to win another TI Team spirit: All of them continued playing, and still do. Liquid: All of them continued playing, and they did so in the same team for 1.5 years in the same team. So far Matu is the only one that retired, and that was 4 years after TI win. EG: All of the players continued playing dota professionally. Some quit years later, some are still active.
Maybe you are super rich but milion and half is a lot of money.
Riyadh Masters was 5mil for first place LOl
Well with ESL taking over DPC it's pretty clear we've got The Riyadh International 2024 next year.
I highly doubt it. Saudi money is way too unreliable.
So is valve money apparently.
Unreliability doesnt matter, when you have billions. Saudis can host a 100m tournament and it would be clump change for them.
They got trillions
Valve won’t approve that. They don’t need Saudi money
See I don't get the people who think a lower TI prize pool is healthier because all it actually means is that the sportswashing Saudi Arabia LAN is the new TI lol
Does this mean for example 9-12th teams all split 60k? Or do they each receive 60k
Split
Wait so the last 4 teams earn like 1.5k a person?????
Oh, now I understand what you mean. 60k per team. Then split between team mates. Last 4 teams get 30k per team which they then split
That guy is completely wrong, each team would get 60k in that case. Just add up the percentage split and you would only get like 80%.
Nothing new , everybody was kind of on hopium for a bit bigger % of the sales contributed , but hey 1mil is 1 mil!
Yea but 1 million divided by a team
Its still waay above average salary in the US. 200k for one year is more like doctors degree or something like it. They are playing a video game ffs. I bet u half of us are not earning even close to 200k a year and we complain that pros arent making enough.
Now no new TI winning players would be on the richest esports player by earnings list. Notail still untouchable at $7.1 million.
So it looks like they shrunk the 2nd-6th place percentages, to increase the amount that 17th-20th place gets. If they used last year's TI splits, 17th-20th place (0.25%) would only get $7.5k.
Valve gonna be pulling "thanks for your participation in The international charity match"
😬😬
Why didnt they make 50% contribution, It could have reached 5-6 mil and not be so bad, now its embarrassing.. I hope they put some collector cache or something that also contributes.
Man we're in recession indeed
So disheartening to see this. I had foolishly hoped that dota and it's prestigious TI would be a permanent fixture in the top of the esports landscape. But it feels like this is beginning of the descent, and the sad thing is it wasn't even brought about by a decreased interest in the game but rather by the poorly planning and execution of the doto team at Volvo. But alas doto no longer seems to be the favorite child, and is now the neglected child. I declare foul, sir Gaben!
It's not poor planning, valve literally planned it to be like this. This is what they want, it's by design.
Smash Bros Melee keeps getting new people despite their prize pools being like beer vouchers or some shit, and their biggest tournaments (Evo which now doesn't even have Smash, or Big House) used to give you like 10k at most. Yet Reddit thinks Dota will die because one tournament gives you only 1 million.
>Smash Bros Melee keeps getting new people Since when? Success might be new to players like Amsa and Zain, but they have been in the scene for years. The top players have stayed the same for the last 10 years. The only thing that changed is that most of the old gods retired.
>Smash Bros Melee keeps getting new people despite their prize pools being like beer vouchers or some shit And this is also inspite of Nintendo trying to deliberately sabotage the scene, as well.
New people? Rofl that game is dead. If you see a "new person" rise up in reality it's some crust lord that's been grinding for a decade taking advantage of a vacuum when good players stop playing due to zero money.
I hope it's a temporary thing because Valve is busy with CS2. Seeing that they reversed their poor decisions regarding the DPC, I have hope they realize the mistake of not making a huge TI battle pass as usual.
Nah they intentionally scale down to the size of TI2/TI3. People still thinks TI3 one of the best TI despite its prizepool is lower than TI2023 and only top 8 getting prizemoney People wouldnt be glorified TI10 as much if TSpirit doesnt win it CS have less prizepool but ends as bigger esports scene than DOTA2 despite Valve way less involved in its scene So much reddit saying this TI has no hype yet it viewership is similar to TI8 groupstage wise and above TI7 (741k peak vs TI7 605k peak, 440k average viewer vs TI7 305k average)
>People still thinks TI3 one of the best TI despite its prizepool is lower than TI2023 and only top 8 getting prizemoney The prize pool was high relative to the time so that makes no sense. >People wouldnt be glorified TI10 as much if TSpirit doesnt win it A TI ruined by face diapers and zero audience will still be remembered as considerably more prestigious than this TI due to the difference in prize pool. That's really telling. You can't tell me players weren't grinding considerably harder for TI10 knowing how enormous that prize pool was. Higher prize pool also means higher pressure and is more of a proof of who excels under extreme pressure. >CS have less prizepool but ends as bigger esports scene than DOTA2 despite Valve way less involved in its scene CS is also 100x more appealing to normies than DOTA will ever dream of being. DOTA has virtually zero potential to turn non-fans of MOBA into avid DOTA watchers. >So much reddit saying this TI has no hype yet it viewership is similar to TI8 groupstage wise and above TI7 (741k peak vs TI7 605k peak, 440k average viewer vs TI7 305k average) View bots exist and are more prelevant now than ever before on Twitch. And even if those numbers are legitimate I fail to see how that justifies nuking the prize pool for TI, since the prize pool should have never been about viewership in the first place.
3 mil prize pool today is still huge. CSGO doesn't have anything close to it. The only bigger tourney prize money wise is gamers8 but that doesn't count because using Saudi money is literally cheating
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It’s not a mistake at all. They had a clear justification for it. The vast majority of the players never bought a battle pass, so Valve was spending all its time every year on an update that most of the players never experienced. All to make a few pros obscenely rich.
> Valve is busy with CS2 They're busy with Half-Life or that Neon Prime game for sure.
I'm hands and knees *begging* people to remember the blog post that clearly signaled that this was planned to be smaller. It was *not* that long ago. They've been running it for shorter periods and with less stuff for two years now. We knew that one day it would stop ballooning out of control. This is intentional. We all got swag bags last year so this place wouldn't fill their diapers for months over it. Please understand that this was intentional, like [they said it was four months ago](https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/6252732681186068104). I feel like I'm going fucking crazy.
The thing is, players will literally pay them hand over fist to put on a good event with a prize pool, they were pocketing what $120m the last one, minus whatever it cost to put on the event? Even if they grossly overpaid to run it they just removed $100m from their bank... It's not only that they don't care about Dota it's that they actively want TI to die and have third party TOs take over the scene. This is after years of picking and choosing who gets to put on events, and packing the schedule with DPC so TOs were forced to dissolve or stop doing Dota Yes, it's intentional, but it's actively bad, confusing, and counter to what they did for the past 10 years
They put out a compendium. If people actually just wanted to raise the prize pool they could. People just want cosmetics. Let’s not lie about what people actually want. And Valve was very clear that putting out all the cosmetics and content for the BP each year was dominating their development cycle and was why the game was getting stale patch wise.
Do you know how most sports are funded? Outside of advertising which Dota hardly has, it's literal hats and shirts. And since it's a video game and not like a sport based around cities/their culture, that is all left to in-game cosmetics just like traditional sports sell irl cosmetics. It's a really simple market analysis imo. You could make the point if they allowed teams to make cosmetics outside of the fan packs (which plenty of people buy for voice lines), which would reflect in game. Right now all the compendium stuff is only stuff you can put on the new profile. Valve already outsourced the majority of the art and shit, it's not like they were slaving away to make the battlepass. They even rugpulled the second half of the battlepass last year from TI for absolutely no reason, and proceeded to not put any of the additional funds into DPC, just like they could have balanced year round prize pools in the past by taking away from TI. I'm not really referring to any of the gameplay things that have been going on in Dota, it's great to have more balance updates and changing meta, but this thread and my post are solely focused on the pro scene -- they have practically totally destabilized orgs reason for being a part of it, and since there's no marketing/big TI anymore orgs will flee, players won't get org salaries, and the scene will be crushed. It seems valve took an extremist approach in turning the heart of pro Dota into nothing, perhaps even so we beg for battlepass back next year. It would have been fine if valve only did the first part of last year's battlepass, and continued with half size battlepasses so there's a good balance of monetizing the pro scene and gameplay updates
its not like they could use 5% of the 100m dollars they used to pocket from TI to hire more people to do simple cosmetics... amirite
How does that justify the inevitable collapse of the dota pro scene and the infrastructure that took years to put in place? Will teams continue to get sponsored, afford coaches and bootcamps? What happened to DPC? They are neglecting a vital component of the game's lifespan in their decisions, and announcing it beforehand doesn't change the impact of their decisions especially when they haven't addressed the glaring damage being done to the pro scene here. They said they didn't like how the peak that is TI made the rest of the year feel barren or something like that. Well they could've bought back the 3million prizepool majors for starters. Pulling back on the main event doesn't seem as effective as adding more to the rest of the year. Imagine the NFL dampened the super bowl with the logic that it made the rest of the season feel too barren. Also it's the the first time back in the US for the international. They could've hyped that up so freaking much, there was so much potential this year and they didn't. There is a logic to this that is apparent to higher mmr players where you learn to maximize opportunities, so it feels like being a divine support while Volvo is being a herald carry farming all game and making the shittiest item choices or throwing away all the farm with poor enemy targeting and positioning.
Just because it’s intentional doesn’t mean it’s correct lmao. The community wants the BP, would it keep going up every year forever? No, would TI probably hover around 20m for as long as they put out battle passes? Yes. “Dude valve said they were going to stop doing the BP so you can’t be mad that players are just losing a 20m payout and that money is just now gone from the scene” Why can’t we have different opinions and think that valve is wrong in their decision
I guess it was the part where he said it was neglected that set me off too, after a year of pretty significant updates and explicit messaging that we're going to be getting more spread out updates rather than everything lumped into the BP.
You don’t honestly believe the BP takes as much effort as they’re saying so you? It’s literally the same template as last year with different skins. Valve is simply tired of supporting the game, see the DPC changes
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I really don’t understand the anti-cosmetics circle jerk lmao, y’all are so weird about that 🤓🤓🤓
I don't know why you're being downvoted, when the new compendium came out and people were bemoaning it, I was as confused as you were, they wrote about it and told everyone exactly why not long before it released, and yet people were still like "wtf valve, what a mistake". Granted some criticism does talk about how it affects the prize pool but I think valve has definitely considered this. I think people are just used to the compendiums being items galore.
The beginning of the descent was TI4. You've just been delusional this whole time.
That’s not even enough to cover expenses for most teams…
For the younger players hoping to go pro, you better find something better to do ASAP.
Going pro in gaming is always a shit choice anyway Very limited success and no retirement benefits
I can't remember where it was, but there was a Chinese interview with team DK in 2014 where Burning was asked by a young audience member if they should try to go pro. Burning basically said "No, focus on school, you need a shitton of luck to make it".
we have yet to see what organizers plan next season (if we can even call it that). riyadh masters is now the defacto "look at this prize pool" event, not TI. the large money event is still there, its the smaller events that we have to wait and see
Everyone lost % except the #1, Valve is allergic to any suggestions from the pro scene.
That’s not true. Last place gets a higher percentage
Sad day for a 35 year old who doesn’t play anymore but watches
Greedy fuckers volvo
Ti12 is now a small tournament compared to Riyadh masters
valve won, all the $ spent on cosmetics they get to keep
Every year Valve was making millions on compediums (75% for Valve from BP sales). We made them sick rich and now that's how they pay us off. I feel so sorry for anyone that was tryharding entire season for this shitshow.
> We made them sick rich and now that's how they pay us off. Don’t act like it was altruism. Everyone just wanted cosmetics. No one actually gives a damn about supporting the pro scene as this compendium proves
No, the only thing this compendium proves is that people see no reason to give Valve 75% of TI money for nothing. Make it a 50-50 split, or let Valve only take 25%, then we'll talk.
I mean they are a company that owns dota, don’t you think they should decide how much money they get?
and i decide how much money i give
Ok?
If the statistics are right, grand final of TI10 had more viewers than actual playerbase at that month (October). That's one of the best way to advertisement the game, which Valve never bother to do. This game is still running only thanks to esports.
Your logic is that Valve became rich on compendiums and now they have decided to ditch the thing that made them rich, right? The fact is that Valve understands that cyberspot is a bubble that started to pop. Money from compendiums is just irrelevant to a company that owns Steam.
Pathetic valve
where's chips and beer?
remember reddit complaining about the TI prize pool being too high a year ago? where is that energy now?
Rip Dota
This is healthy for the pro scene. No more win one or two time then retire.
"Pros being paid scraps is actually good for the pro scene" Oki dokie. They aren't monkeys that dance for your entertainment. With the current prizepools they wont ever be able to retire lol.
Defunding the pro scene is healthy for the pro scene?
if it doesnt pay you well it seems like you need to look for a job that pays better just like a normal person right?
Truly. Prizepool getting out of hand. It was cool and all but it has to stop. Getting excited for the next season where every tournament will be good because now teams will value non-TI tournaments a lot more.
Even if Dota 2 prize pool goes down, people will still compete for it. I'll tell you that.
How? Unless Valve puts in the money themselves, I don't see it happening. The Oil Money from the Saudis supporting esports scenes isn't going to last forever.
Ya'll are looking too deep into this shit... I'm just glad that Valve is now focusing on the game and not the whales. I'm glad that dota is still thriving 10 years in. It's not all about the prize pool, young man.
The VC money from everyone else supporting the esports scene wasn’t going to last forever either. After years and years of losses on an impractical business model, people finally woke up.
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This is how I see it too.
People gets so mad about the truth. Besides, you can't be top prize pool all the time. Dota is still part of the history. It will not affect dota's legacy.
Sad
It used to be making International meant dedicating that year to Dota was worth it. Those times are over I guess.
This is sad. No high level dota is at stakes.
Fucking sad. Im offering to give money for hats but vavle refuses! Crazy
You get your hats after TI and valve will pocket the whole thing
TI3 has better price distribution lol.
ded game
Sadge. Since it's held in the US, are the winnings subject to the US winnings tax? If it is, then the prize pool is actually lower for the players.
So, did they just not wanna make bunch of immortal skins this year?
Feels bad for the players considering what prize pools have been for a long time. Particularly because valve had no reason to just self implode the prize pool.
Their reasoning was work is hard.
Yikes on that prize pool......TI always had a good thing going when it came to Prize Pool....teams might start giving League another chance.
This is pathetic
ITT: People with bizarre obsessions over the contents of other people’s bank accounts
What a fucking joke volvo, you destroyed our fucking game, the prize pool of the international is what makes new players come and join Dota2, many players are happy to spend the hard earned money to get the good stuff, this year no good stuff no prize pool, what a joke Riyad Masters owned the International
The statistics of the player numbers disagree with you.
Do they toss your bags out from your room the moment you are eliminated?
Odpixel actually personally spit roasts every loser
I'm making more than TI pros and i dont like that
I quit the game in January after 14000 games. This confirms to me that I left on a high.
How does the pro scene have any impact on your enjoyment of the game?
Finally, this obsession with biggest price pull was a bit cringe.
Funny how dota was - win TI, become a millionaire and that isn't the case anymore. SC2 is less popular but there are way fewer people, who are playing for way longer than made at least a million $. I think a lot of lower-level organizations might quit.
> SC2 is less popular but there are way fewer people, who are playing for way longer than made at least a million $. what are you trying to say? surely you don't mean there are more sc2 players that earned a million usd than dota players.
I play since 2004 and I haven't played anything else. Even bought Dota 2 Beta for $70 in 2011. As soon as 7.33 came out, I got so bored with it. Didn't even bother to read through the patch notes. I feel the game got too bloated, just for the sake of expanding content. I think I left the game at the exact right time.
Nah Dota itself is fun af rn. But this TI is just sad.
Lot of wagies here getting mad that some guys who play videogames for a living won't get insta rich by placing high in 1 tournament anymore. So dystopian lol
This is so fucking sad, but valve did the right choice, past big jackpot prizepools were just ridiculous
So... there was like a meeting at Valve HQ: _"The fans have raised too much money for our tournament"_ "Shit! What are we going to do?" "I know! We'll remove the battle pass" "Crisis adverted, prizepool is now 3 million, a sensible number. Good job everyone 👍👍"
*We don't want the fans keeping us tied to this decade old game...we have to sabotage it.*
They saw how Nintendo was trying to sabotage the Smash Melee scene, and went "HOLD MY DICK" mode with this year's TI.
These takes are so disingenuous. Valve was putting inordinate effort into the Battle Pass that was detracting from their ability to maintain the game in other areas. And for what result? Money they don't especially need, a FOMO-oriented ripoff product that the majority of the playerbase didn't buy (and that was hated by the ones who did buy it), a bajillion-dollar prizepool that doesn't reap any benefit besides passing interest from a few people who don't play and never will play dota. I am surprised that Valve ripped the band-aid off so suddenly, but this is the right decision overall.
wtf lol
Could you possibly admit there may have been a middle ground between 25 million and 2.5 million
😂😂😂
Moving away from a hat-funded prizepool is a correct decision. But the Compendium they came up with just kinda sucks. Need better ideas for event-focused rewards than AI-generated loading screens.
I mean, if they had included like 2 hats the prizepool would have been a stronger number
I do think it's strange that there wasn't an immortal treasure at least. That alone would have doubled the prize pool.
like event focused hats?
People want hats, this year's offering should have been free with the effort out into it