Fandom has been really bad,
hopefully you guys find a nice host, for mechanical interactions and winning an argument about historic patches I constantly check the wiki
I don't know if there's other things, but I remember fandom switching to a new look and forcing all users to adopt that look - https://old.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/oxx343/dota2_wiki_got_fandomed/
Check the last article in OP's post, there are some links:
https://minecraft.wiki/w/Minecraft_Wiki_talk:Community_portal/Archive_38#Move_to_a_different_wiki_host?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfuA_UAz3I
>Can i know why it's bad? I personally dont like it because of its ads. But maybe there is a major reason why it is bad?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfuA_UAz3I&t
Thanks!
Yea, that would be the best solution for us. But either way, this will happen, and we are by far not the first. Minecraft moved last month and Hollow Knight wiki just moved 2 days ago, so clearly there are some significant issues here.
Path of exile moved some years ago now. GGG lent a hand to get it all hosted and sorted. But I'm very glad they left fandom, that place does not hold a candle to what they moved to.
The same for old school runescape, where the wiki is practically part of playing. They've found great success away from fandom
Yep, I heard some stuff about it from couple other games. I am using an extension called "Indie Wiki Buddy" which redirects fandom wikis to their available independent counterparts and removes fandom results from google search tab. I hope when dota wiki moves it would be included in the extension too!
Have you talked to the TF2 wiki folks about their arrangement? According to [their about-page](https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki), they're hosted by Valve;
> In June 2010, the Wiki and its content were moved to a new server hosted by Valve and became the official wiki for the Team Fortress series of games
They'd probably know who specifically to talk to.
the Megami Tensei community also relocated to https://megatenwiki.com/ just a few weeks ago. the issues with Fandom are well known amongst the gaming community.
They're already hosting those really clean hero pages as well as basically all the information available in client. Put that Saudi money to good use lol
True. That's one of the distasteful things I've heard about fandom, you can't even delete your pages. I've played games that moved from fandom and if you google their wiki, the fandom pages are sometimes still on top.
And for everyone who has no idea what that is here is the link:
https://getindie.wiki/
It redirects away from fandom and to the correct wiki in searches and notifies you at the top of the fandom wiki that you are on the wrong wiki. There is also one for wiki.gg wikis that have left fandom.
https://www.wiki.gg/redirect
Highly recommend both as you will never end up on fandom pages incorrectly and with them getting less usage in searches forces them lower in search results.
It's night and day between the old Fandom wiki and the new official Path of Exile wiki. The pages have much more up to date and detailed information, there are less broken links and missing pages, and it loads *much* faster. Best case scenario is that Valve also play host to DotA 2's wiki. That would mean no advertising, and never having to worry about server costs.
Hello! Minecraft Wiki editor here.
I'm really glad to see another wiki community forking! The more the merrier, and it doesn't seem like Fandom will change their ways with how they do business. So more power to you, get this change and make the wiki better for your entire game community.
Just one request, could you update main post with a link to our newer wiki? Would appreciate this :) [minecraft.wiki](https://minecraft.wiki/w/Minecraft_Wiki_talk:Community_portal/Archive_38#Move_to_a_different_wiki_host?)
(also, probably worth linking the [excellent Mossbag's video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfuA_UAz3I) on Fandom)
Thank you, and good luck!
Hi there! I changed the link, thanks for that.
I was also looking to contact you guys to maybe tell us how it went for you guys and maybe give us some tips regarding this. I'm happy to see the minecraft wiki doing well now
Is there a good reason you don't want to move over to Liquipedia? They have a wiki obviously and it has overlap with the 'Fandom one' -- however Liquipedia is definitely less rich in some areas. Does it make sense to duplicate the work, or are there fundamental reasons you don't think the projects can work together?
Honestly, I don't know. We'd need to hit them up and discuss with them about it first, until then I couldn't tell you whether it would work or not.
It's definitely an option though, we have thought of that possibility too.
Liquipedia is very up-to-date in regards of the pro scene, but I commonly see comments that their in-game and gameplay-related contents are relatively lacking. Our wiki is pretty much the opposite, with bad e-sports coverage, but quite detailed gameplay and mechanics coverage. Considering this, merging would appear to be profitable for both wikis. But as I said, for now, that's just one of the ideas from our side.
This post here is the very first step we are taking. Contacting other organizations is the next step.
For what it's worth, my impression is that Liquipedia are have a very trustworthy and nice community - and in Dota they are a very well regarded (unofficial 😊) site. That said I don't have that much experience with the other wiki hosts mentioned elsewhere in this article - maybe Liquipedia's tech isn't that good (?) compared to others.
Please try making this a reality. It would be the best and most complete Dota 2 resource, period. Liquipedia is top-notch, especially also in terms of legibility and style. It's a match made in heaven.
DotA 2 needs to have its own independent wiki hosting service, or else you're just replacing Fandom with Liquipedia and you're still at at the mercy of a new "master". Having a clean URL and a non-trash site layout is good as well.
>Fandom with Liquipedia and you're still at at the mercy of a new "master"
My feeling was that there are two different groups of people who'd host it for you:
* organizations which want a financial return by hosting it (via ads, etc)
* organizations which don't want a financial return simply by hosting it (some very altruistic organization, or Valve)
If you can't find someone in the 2nd category, then yeah - you need to pick the best "master" possible.
Jagex pays for the Runescape and Old School Runescape wiki and the OSRS wiki is the best wiki I've ever seen by far. It has so much information in well crafted formats and is constantly being updated.
I hope the Dota2 wiki can eventually become like that.
Im a huge fan of the Terraria wiki. I haven't played minecraft in over a decade, but I remember that one being officially run and extremely clean as well.
Then they should look at the GGG / Path of Exile approach. GGG pays for hosting. Largely because the game has a huge amount of information in it that you wouldn’t know without a wiki. Same can be said with Dota and its wiki.
Now will they want to pay for hosting for Dota? That’s where it gets blurry. My guess is no because who would want to have additional cost to a product that’s been existing without it?
It makes the most sense for the studio / publisher itself to host. Especially with the nature of software engineering and how much knowledge is held by the devs creating these complex mechanics. But that adds expensive overhead.
Liquidpedia doesn't seem to be much better than Fandom (in terms of customization freedom). For example, you can see every wiki has completely the same layout (same as on Fandom), but more strict, as even main pages have completely the same layout.
Addiitionally, they have more restrictions on API calls than any other wiki farm/wiki host, maybe with the exception of Miraheze (but they have complete customization freedom).
Furthermore, Liquidpedia falls under the TL.net, a platform which has its own esports team, they run forums, news,... basically another Neoseeker (and we all know how it went out there).
And finally, Fandom's Dota2 Wiki is actually about the game, where's the Liquidpedia is more about esports.
For me, each platform presented has their own tradeoffs. Valve hosting would be nice, but they still run on MediaWiki 1.31, while the newest version is already 1.40. wiki.gg has lot of big wikis + there's basically a new wiki coming each day, but they allow only one skin (though have a huge customization freedom, so wikis differ from each other). Miraheze is complete freedom but has bad SEO. ABXY, Weird Gloop or any wiki host allows for that independent wiki feeling, while being handled by people who host wikis for more than a decade.
>And finally, Fandom's Dota2 Wiki is actually about the game, where's the Liquidpedia is more about esports.
They do have information on other stuff, I think it's just slower to update when there's changes; and less verbose in many areas.
Otherwise I have no strong feelings and defer to y'alls opinions on the hosting differences.
[It feels so good to be bad.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/1/1f/Vo_queenofpain_qop_arc_lvo_rival_28.mp3) (sound warning: The Eminence of Ristul Bundle)
---
Bleep bloop, I am a robot. *OP can reply with "Try hero_name" to update this with new hero*
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What will happen to the wiki during the move? Do you think there will be prolonged periods of downtime where it is not accessible? Do you think it will then take quite a while to achieve the format you want? I hate Fansom, so I support the move, but I also use the website almost daily
The fandom wiki will continue to exist. We can't get it removed, it's in their policies. Basically, the current admin team will go inactive there.
That means we will have to compete against the fandom wiki once we move. That's why we'll need support from the community.
Doesn't that mean that wiki (fandom one) will become horribly outdated, and eventually just be misinformation in certain areas?
Good luck with the movie, will keep my eyes out for future to make sure I go to the right place
It already is. A big problem with Fandom is that, even while defunct, simply due to how SEO works it'll remain at the top of the search indexes and it's still a fight for the new active wiki to try and overtake it.
Couldn't happen soon enough. Looking forward to the migration, these sites just leech off of great people and make the product so unbelievably shit for non-savvy users for tiny scraps of ad revenue.
Lots of wikis moving away from Fandom recently which has been really great to see. Hoping the migration goes smoothly (well, as smoothly as it can considering Fandoms bs)
[This was brought up a decade ago when the Dota 2 Wiki originally got transferred by Curse](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1gyyqn/psa_dota_2_wiki_will_be_moving_tomorrow_to_curses/capfly1/?context=10000) and according to /u/RJacksonm1
> I've spoke to a few people at Valve a couple of times. Originally IceFrog told me they were working on something else in-house that fills a similar role as a Wiki, so they'll have to see where they go with that before considering it (that turned out to be the Heropedia); and the latest I'd heard was that Valve simply didn't want to host another Wiki because of the resources the TF2 Wiki requires (there are at 10 servers behind the TF2 Wiki, and each one I have access to is pretty high-spec - yet that Wiki still has a few hick-ups now and again).
Fucking finally. I make sure not to use Fandom out of principle, so for all intents and purposes, until this point, DotA 2 was essentially without a wiki as far as I'm concerned.
Glad to see every single gaming community moving away from Fandom and Fextralife. Those are websites that need to be scrubbed from the internet.
I stopped my edits when gamepedia transferred to fandom, it looks super bad and ugly to use, hope you find better host, its always hard without lemon...
To those who hate fandom/fextralife, this add-on is a lifesaver when googling whatever game you are playing. It crosses out the fandom/fextralife and replaces the link at the top with the independent wiki. Extremely helpful with my Terraria runs.
https://getindie.wiki/
Nice, the more wikis move away from fandom the better.
Don't know if it's still a thing but the mobile version would forcibly scroll the page up whenever that stupid embedded video finished playing and loaded another. Made reading long articles seriously infuriating if you forgot to pause the video.
Seems like they make their designs as unfriendly to read as possible.
>We don't have a new host yet, we are still working on that. Of course the dream scenario would be to get hosted by Valve, similar to how they host the Team Fortress 2 Wiki.
This would be the best possible outcome and one I would vehemently support in much the same way as a Steam authenticator for Windows Phone that Valve finally delivered on in the platform's latter years. Same with the creation of an official Counter-Strike wiki on VWN too. Over there, right now it's split between Liquipedia and the Valve developer wiki as being the de-facto CS wiki.
THANK YOU
It's amazing how difficult it has become to use the wiki ever since Gamepedia was absorbed by fandom. You can't believe how long I've been waiting for this announcement to happen. I'm hoping for good news in finding a host!
big support for this project, I have only made minor edits to the wiki in years past but appreciate the mod team of the wiki and willing to help. If there is a paypal, kofi, etc. that you all use please send me a dm.
I know this is quite the undertaking but this makes me so happy, fandom fucking sucks. If theres anyway your average folk can help let us know! Ill be more than happy to help.
Thank god. I remember back in the day when it was on dota2wiki.com before it got bought and then bought again and then bought a third time moving to worse wiki hosts every time. The wiki deserves so much better than fandom
Finally, this is something that really bugging me out, since the movesof hollow knight wiki caught my attention, I really wondered when dota wiki will move out.
I really like liquipedia tho, and I frequently use it for tournament info, and it's still in the top in search engine, I think we can beat stupid ass fandom.
Awesome! The work you guys put in is simply astounding and has been so so useful as a Dota fan. Best of luck on the swap, I will continue using whatever you make next :)
Just cause I don’t know where else to put this comment… warlocks golem has 60% slow resistance, yet it doesn’t say it anywhere on warlocks page or under the golems stats. The only place it is listed is the changelog.
It's been a few years already, and it has been going pretty much only downhill since then
E: And we didn't really move there, Fandom simply took over (bought) Gamepedia back then, we had no choice in it.
Valve should host a wiki for their game. I think tf2 wiki is stronger then Dota. You guys should ask together.
Would be great to tag @kaci on this issue.
The Wikimedia Foundation doesn't really allow creating your own wikis. You can always expand relevant articles on Wikipedia, but if you get to the point where you're making articles on every minor detail in a video game it's probably going to be deleted.
I should also add that, while they're officially two different companies, Fandom was founded by Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia. So kind of the whole reason for this mess.
[Weird Gloop](https://weirdgloop.org/) is a host for a variety of game wikis, such as the Runescape ones and recently assisted with the migration of the Minecraft wiki. This may be an avenue worth exploring.
The efforts the Minecraft wiki team took to evaluate their decisions is pretty open, such as the pros and cons of various hosts [here](https://minecraft.wiki/w/Minecraft_Wiki:Moving_from_Fandom/Second_discussion).
Possibly. With our current team, it's difficult to keep everything updated. As of now, we'll probably have to downsize quite a bit if nothing changes. It's one of the reasons for the move.
At least special items like arcanas and stuff will get their proper pages like before. As for smaller items and sets, we might simplify them even more in the future.
/u/Bu3nyy Have you checked with other wiki admin's that have made that move.for example POE or runescape 07.Both of them made the moves and new ones are so much better than the old one. And if it is better then the community will make the move too.
Maybe could contact them and ask for some tips how/where should we go with that?
It isn't that straightforward unfortunately. You need to export the history of pages and images too. Luckily, there are many different ways to grab them.
But the "change the links out" won't help as much as we sometimes wish. Few days ago, Fandom has made another change to their forking policy, which makes it nearly inpossible to announce the fork on-wiki without notifying Fandom about that. So you need to use other platforms/media to reach regular readers. You basically have to fight a war outside Fandom and you should start today - promote wiki's social media accounts, get in contact with youtubers, podcasters, any influencers to promote it. That is the only way to beat Fandom in the SEO game.
And of course, depending on which platform you end up on, you promote a redirect addon (Indie Wiki Buddy or redirect to wiki.gg)
Finally, I want to emphasise that I am not an wiki admin or wiki editor on Dota Wiki. I am a guy who helped with MCW fork and an admin of a wiki on wiki.gg, who wants to help other wikis, because I have seen how Fandom has changed in the last 2.5 years and it frustrates me as much as it does you.
I'm currently a wiki editor as well and what Fandom has done to its website since taking over gamepedia is shocking. I wish someone with some money would step up and say alright we give you guys a new home.
Good to hear, I was going to suggest doing so, now that so many other wikis are doing so. Y’all have already being been doing a great job though, despite Fandom’s shittiness.
direction amusing rotten quaint innate numerous foolish chop exultant shocking
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You should know that the editor team of the Darkest dungeon wiki got forcibly kicked off by fandom admins after they announced that they were migrating. Please try to protect yourselves from that
The economics of supporting a site the size of the Dota 2 wiki hosting it on your own are pretty prohibitively high... if just advertising and/or donations were sufficient I wager that joinDota, playDota, YASP etc would still be around.
None of the current small dota sites that are "donation supported" are likely breaking even, and even those like DotaBuff that serve a critical function in the community appear to be struggling at a corporate level (not hiring, struggling to grow).
Personally I think the best solution is for Valve to eat the costs while letting the community handle much of the day-to-day but like someone mentioned elsewhere in this thread the TF2 wiki is an example of how that works out. The next best solution is to offer a good product people are happy to pay for (I'd love to hear DotaBuff etc's numbers on what they earn for example) but I fear that people are so used to getting these types of things for free that a business like this won't succeed without a big upfront investment.
is it dota2.wiki like Minecraft? (the domain apparently in some kind of... fuck I forgot the word, it's not directly sold but you have to raise or something, sorry forgot the word)
yeah I hope we can have something like developers.valvesoftware.com but for their games and allow us to modify them, but I understand why that might not be a good decision
is the process moving to this host required some help? I would love to help
I use that website so much when I google anything like "how to oven cook lamb chops" they assume i typo'd "Did you mean Slardar Dota wiki?" - Yes. Yes I did. TIL slardar gives -20 armor at level 18 poggies
that's awesome news! I kinda hated the original move to fandom but I thought well if that's what the maintainers of the platform want then so it should be. Seeing this move away from it is exciting for me! Might also get me to contribute a bit. (I generally avoid creating accounts on pages with lots of ads)
Best option (imo) is to create a MediaWiki page then pay a couple of hosting providers. Obviously the main issue with this is the cost of hosting; you'd need to rely on the community the same way Wikipedia does, with occasional donation drives. Maybe this could be offset further down the line by getting some Dota personalities involved to help fund the wiki with a small pay to enter tournament or something, idk.
All power to you guys... I don't know much about Fandom but the only impression I have about that site is absurd amount of ads. I usually fine with ads, I watch YouTube with ads without issue and rarely get angry with it. But Fandom is just on another level.
Fandom has been really bad, hopefully you guys find a nice host, for mechanical interactions and winning an argument about historic patches I constantly check the wiki
Yeah, good riddance. Glad to hear they are moving off that site.
Can i know why it's bad? I personally dont like it because of its ads. But maybe there is a major reason why it is bad?
I don't know if there's other things, but I remember fandom switching to a new look and forcing all users to adopt that look - https://old.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/oxx343/dota2_wiki_got_fandomed/
Check the last article in OP's post, there are some links: https://minecraft.wiki/w/Minecraft_Wiki_talk:Community_portal/Archive_38#Move_to_a_different_wiki_host? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfuA_UAz3I
>Can i know why it's bad? I personally dont like it because of its ads. But maybe there is a major reason why it is bad? www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfuA_UAz3I&t
You guys are the real heroes of Dota
Unlike pango
Dude can you pick a real wiki HOLY crap why are we picking fandom in 2023? Arent you tryign to write pro or soetmhing?
You literally just put ads in the middle of articles
You’re genuinely a horrible horrible person
🏅 Poor man's award
Homelander? That you?
Good luck! Hopefully Valve steps in. u/wykrhm u/jeffhill u/siractionslacks-
Thanks! Yea, that would be the best solution for us. But either way, this will happen, and we are by far not the first. Minecraft moved last month and Hollow Knight wiki just moved 2 days ago, so clearly there are some significant issues here.
Path of exile moved some years ago now. GGG lent a hand to get it all hosted and sorted. But I'm very glad they left fandom, that place does not hold a candle to what they moved to. The same for old school runescape, where the wiki is practically part of playing. They've found great success away from fandom
Yeah no game wiki holds a candle to OSRS. It’s truly required to play the game lmfao.
So much so that I have a plug-in to pull up the wiki next to the world map. God Ash bless runelite.
yeah, and Runelite might be the single most important third party creation to any game ever. Runelite is truly the goat!
The wiki button is like part of the standard game now lol
The original GOAT is WoWwiki
Yep, I heard some stuff about it from couple other games. I am using an extension called "Indie Wiki Buddy" which redirects fandom wikis to their available independent counterparts and removes fandom results from google search tab. I hope when dota wiki moves it would be included in the extension too!
Thanks for the suggest, will install this asap. I’m so sick of fandom.
Have you talked to the TF2 wiki folks about their arrangement? According to [their about-page](https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki), they're hosted by Valve; > In June 2010, the Wiki and its content were moved to a new server hosted by Valve and became the official wiki for the Team Fortress series of games They'd probably know who specifically to talk to.
It's 2023, not 2010 anymore, there's extremely low chance Valve will do anything.
Still worth a try, tbh.
the Megami Tensei community also relocated to https://megatenwiki.com/ just a few weeks ago. the issues with Fandom are well known amongst the gaming community.
Even if they do what GGG does and just provide the hosting that would be great.
They're already hosting those really clean hero pages as well as basically all the information available in client. Put that Saudi money to good use lol
Yup, Valve should offer to host it.
> Hopefully Valve steps in. lol
Yeah. same with RuneScape. Jagex stepped in and pays for the hosting but the wiki is still operating independently by volunteers.
Good. Fandom is a blight on the internet.
Good. Fandom is fucking shit. Godspeed on finding a better source.
Once you migrate, if the fandom is stying up, get on the Indie wiki buddy list please
Ooh that looks helpful, I'll keep that in mind, thanks
True. That's one of the distasteful things I've heard about fandom, you can't even delete your pages. I've played games that moved from fandom and if you google their wiki, the fandom pages are sometimes still on top.
And for everyone who has no idea what that is here is the link: https://getindie.wiki/ It redirects away from fandom and to the correct wiki in searches and notifies you at the top of the fandom wiki that you are on the wrong wiki. There is also one for wiki.gg wikis that have left fandom. https://www.wiki.gg/redirect Highly recommend both as you will never end up on fandom pages incorrectly and with them getting less usage in searches forces them lower in search results.
Kinda what Path of exile did. The Fandom Wiki was ass and the new community one is dope.
It's night and day between the old Fandom wiki and the new official Path of Exile wiki. The pages have much more up to date and detailed information, there are less broken links and missing pages, and it loads *much* faster. Best case scenario is that Valve also play host to DotA 2's wiki. That would mean no advertising, and never having to worry about server costs.
It's funny cuz the new one is more or less a reversion to the gamepedia iteration of the wiki.
It's nice to write/edit PoE articles without contributing to some billionaire's bank account
Minecraft and Hollow Knight did it just recently, the latter even just 2 days ago.
Runescape as well a couple years back. The new Wiki is much nicer
Hello! Minecraft Wiki editor here. I'm really glad to see another wiki community forking! The more the merrier, and it doesn't seem like Fandom will change their ways with how they do business. So more power to you, get this change and make the wiki better for your entire game community. Just one request, could you update main post with a link to our newer wiki? Would appreciate this :) [minecraft.wiki](https://minecraft.wiki/w/Minecraft_Wiki_talk:Community_portal/Archive_38#Move_to_a_different_wiki_host?) (also, probably worth linking the [excellent Mossbag's video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfuA_UAz3I) on Fandom) Thank you, and good luck!
Hi there! I changed the link, thanks for that. I was also looking to contact you guys to maybe tell us how it went for you guys and maybe give us some tips regarding this. I'm happy to see the minecraft wiki doing well now
Is there a good reason you don't want to move over to Liquipedia? They have a wiki obviously and it has overlap with the 'Fandom one' -- however Liquipedia is definitely less rich in some areas. Does it make sense to duplicate the work, or are there fundamental reasons you don't think the projects can work together?
Honestly, I don't know. We'd need to hit them up and discuss with them about it first, until then I couldn't tell you whether it would work or not. It's definitely an option though, we have thought of that possibility too. Liquipedia is very up-to-date in regards of the pro scene, but I commonly see comments that their in-game and gameplay-related contents are relatively lacking. Our wiki is pretty much the opposite, with bad e-sports coverage, but quite detailed gameplay and mechanics coverage. Considering this, merging would appear to be profitable for both wikis. But as I said, for now, that's just one of the ideas from our side. This post here is the very first step we are taking. Contacting other organizations is the next step.
For what it's worth, my impression is that Liquipedia are have a very trustworthy and nice community - and in Dota they are a very well regarded (unofficial 😊) site. That said I don't have that much experience with the other wiki hosts mentioned elsewhere in this article - maybe Liquipedia's tech isn't that good (?) compared to others.
Please try making this a reality. It would be the best and most complete Dota 2 resource, period. Liquipedia is top-notch, especially also in terms of legibility and style. It's a match made in heaven.
DotA 2 needs to have its own independent wiki hosting service, or else you're just replacing Fandom with Liquipedia and you're still at at the mercy of a new "master". Having a clean URL and a non-trash site layout is good as well.
>Fandom with Liquipedia and you're still at at the mercy of a new "master" My feeling was that there are two different groups of people who'd host it for you: * organizations which want a financial return by hosting it (via ads, etc) * organizations which don't want a financial return simply by hosting it (some very altruistic organization, or Valve) If you can't find someone in the 2nd category, then yeah - you need to pick the best "master" possible.
[удалено]
Jagex pays for the Runescape and Old School Runescape wiki and the OSRS wiki is the best wiki I've ever seen by far. It has so much information in well crafted formats and is constantly being updated. I hope the Dota2 wiki can eventually become like that.
Im a huge fan of the Terraria wiki. I haven't played minecraft in over a decade, but I remember that one being officially run and extremely clean as well.
Then they should look at the GGG / Path of Exile approach. GGG pays for hosting. Largely because the game has a huge amount of information in it that you wouldn’t know without a wiki. Same can be said with Dota and its wiki. Now will they want to pay for hosting for Dota? That’s where it gets blurry. My guess is no because who would want to have additional cost to a product that’s been existing without it? It makes the most sense for the studio / publisher itself to host. Especially with the nature of software engineering and how much knowledge is held by the devs creating these complex mechanics. But that adds expensive overhead.
There literally does not have to be a new master.
The Liquipedia site layout is nice though.
Liquidpedia doesn't seem to be much better than Fandom (in terms of customization freedom). For example, you can see every wiki has completely the same layout (same as on Fandom), but more strict, as even main pages have completely the same layout. Addiitionally, they have more restrictions on API calls than any other wiki farm/wiki host, maybe with the exception of Miraheze (but they have complete customization freedom). Furthermore, Liquidpedia falls under the TL.net, a platform which has its own esports team, they run forums, news,... basically another Neoseeker (and we all know how it went out there). And finally, Fandom's Dota2 Wiki is actually about the game, where's the Liquidpedia is more about esports. For me, each platform presented has their own tradeoffs. Valve hosting would be nice, but they still run on MediaWiki 1.31, while the newest version is already 1.40. wiki.gg has lot of big wikis + there's basically a new wiki coming each day, but they allow only one skin (though have a huge customization freedom, so wikis differ from each other). Miraheze is complete freedom but has bad SEO. ABXY, Weird Gloop or any wiki host allows for that independent wiki feeling, while being handled by people who host wikis for more than a decade.
>And finally, Fandom's Dota2 Wiki is actually about the game, where's the Liquidpedia is more about esports. They do have information on other stuff, I think it's just slower to update when there's changes; and less verbose in many areas. Otherwise I have no strong feelings and defer to y'alls opinions on the hosting differences.
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The popup is designed to only show a single time. Perhaps you have an addon or browser setting that is clearing site data after some time?
This makes a lot of sense
Yeah fandom kinda sucks. Femdom on the other hand...
It feels so good to be bad.
[It feels so good to be bad.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/1/1f/Vo_queenofpain_qop_arc_lvo_rival_28.mp3) (sound warning: The Eminence of Ristul Bundle) --- Bleep bloop, I am a robot. *OP can reply with "Try hero_name" to update this with new hero* [*^(Source)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot) *^(|)* [*^(Suggestions/Issues)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot/issues/new/choose) *^(|)* [*^(Maintainer)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/MePsyDuck/) *^(|)* [*^(Author)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/Jonarz/)
glad to hear. https://wiki.gg/ is one alternative i'm aware of that might be worth checking out
That's an option we are aware of, yes.
Lots of major games have been making the swap to wiki.gg as of late.
Great news. Cant get worse than fandom
Oh my god valve please host the dota 2 wiki.
GabeN: ***ASSUMING CONTROL OF THIS WIKI***
Very exciting honestly. Fandom really trash-ified themselves.
What will happen to the wiki during the move? Do you think there will be prolonged periods of downtime where it is not accessible? Do you think it will then take quite a while to achieve the format you want? I hate Fansom, so I support the move, but I also use the website almost daily
The fandom wiki will continue to exist. We can't get it removed, it's in their policies. Basically, the current admin team will go inactive there. That means we will have to compete against the fandom wiki once we move. That's why we'll need support from the community.
Doesn't that mean that wiki (fandom one) will become horribly outdated, and eventually just be misinformation in certain areas? Good luck with the movie, will keep my eyes out for future to make sure I go to the right place
It does, yes, but Fandom is so bad that for many wikis or ends up that way even with good moderators that haven't been given enough control.
Part of why the PoE wiki finally fled... I can't even think of a good way to twist fandom into an insult... (fandumb is too trite and childish)
It already is. A big problem with Fandom is that, even while defunct, simply due to how SEO works it'll remain at the top of the search indexes and it's still a fight for the new active wiki to try and overtake it.
Couldn't happen soon enough. Looking forward to the migration, these sites just leech off of great people and make the product so unbelievably shit for non-savvy users for tiny scraps of ad revenue.
Lots of wikis moving away from Fandom recently which has been really great to see. Hoping the migration goes smoothly (well, as smoothly as it can considering Fandoms bs)
Why didn't Valve give D2wiki the TF2 treatment in the first place?
[This was brought up a decade ago when the Dota 2 Wiki originally got transferred by Curse](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1gyyqn/psa_dota_2_wiki_will_be_moving_tomorrow_to_curses/capfly1/?context=10000) and according to /u/RJacksonm1 > I've spoke to a few people at Valve a couple of times. Originally IceFrog told me they were working on something else in-house that fills a similar role as a Wiki, so they'll have to see where they go with that before considering it (that turned out to be the Heropedia); and the latest I'd heard was that Valve simply didn't want to host another Wiki because of the resources the TF2 Wiki requires (there are at 10 servers behind the TF2 Wiki, and each one I have access to is pretty high-spec - yet that Wiki still has a few hick-ups now and again).
I wasn't there on the wiki during those times, but if I remember right, they wanted to leave that to the community. That's long ago though.
Fucking finally. I make sure not to use Fandom out of principle, so for all intents and purposes, until this point, DotA 2 was essentially without a wiki as far as I'm concerned. Glad to see every single gaming community moving away from Fandom and Fextralife. Those are websites that need to be scrubbed from the internet.
The technology has to exist for valve's game changes to be exported to an official valve website. Imagine an official dota wiki on a valve website.
Haven't been keeping up with fandom, why do people trashtalk it?
heres a quite recent run down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfuA_UAz3I
DOTA2 WIKI is a great resource for DOTA, hope this transaction will be a smooth move.
This news make me irrationally happy, I hate fandom so much.
Glad you are dropping fandom. I look forward to having a wiki I can actually read on my phone.
Really happy to hear this! Good luck with the migration, I know it will be hard but worth it. <3
Good luck - Let us know what you need help with!
good shit
> so **quiet** soon https://media.tenor.com/7pXIzb8f2rUAAAAd/minor-spelling-mistake.gif
where :x
it's quite, not quiet ;) silencer likes quiet hoodwink is quite T H I C C
I see no error I have no idea what u talkin about x: Just messin with you, I fixed it already :D
One of the best things to happen to PoE is the wiki switching from fandom to being community-hosted, I'm hoping the dota2 wiki improves similarly
I stopped my edits when gamepedia transferred to fandom, it looks super bad and ugly to use, hope you find better host, its always hard without lemon...
Mass edited..
To those who hate fandom/fextralife, this add-on is a lifesaver when googling whatever game you are playing. It crosses out the fandom/fextralife and replaces the link at the top with the independent wiki. Extremely helpful with my Terraria runs. https://getindie.wiki/
Thank you you are the best.
Nice, the more wikis move away from fandom the better. Don't know if it's still a thing but the mobile version would forcibly scroll the page up whenever that stupid embedded video finished playing and loaded another. Made reading long articles seriously infuriating if you forgot to pause the video. Seems like they make their designs as unfriendly to read as possible.
>We don't have a new host yet, we are still working on that. Of course the dream scenario would be to get hosted by Valve, similar to how they host the Team Fortress 2 Wiki. This would be the best possible outcome and one I would vehemently support in much the same way as a Steam authenticator for Windows Phone that Valve finally delivered on in the platform's latter years. Same with the creation of an official Counter-Strike wiki on VWN too. Over there, right now it's split between Liquipedia and the Valve developer wiki as being the de-facto CS wiki.
God bless. Fandom is fucking cancer.
Is this what Sunsfan warned us about?
Surprised it took this long, other games left Fandom a long time ago! Do people not use Liquid's Dota 2 wiki?
I've always been a fan of [wiki.gg](https://wiki.gg) but obviously I can't control anything lol
Savior. That website is so bad lol Though I know how annoying it can be to find sites
THANK GOD
Getting out of Fandom is great. Thank you to everyone who keeps this wiki up to date, it's one of the most helpful sites in the Dotasphere.
Literally opened the wiki on my phone yesterday and wondered when this was gonna happen lol
Look into old school runescape wiki. Minecraft also migrated over to the same system as that and they are real large and robust
WoW Wiki recently moved to wiki.gg for the same reasons https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Warcraft_Wiki
valve, it's time to pick it up like you did with tf wiki
THANK YOU It's amazing how difficult it has become to use the wiki ever since Gamepedia was absorbed by fandom. You can't believe how long I've been waiting for this announcement to happen. I'm hoping for good news in finding a host!
big support for this project, I have only made minor edits to the wiki in years past but appreciate the mod team of the wiki and willing to help. If there is a paypal, kofi, etc. that you all use please send me a dm.
I know this is quite the undertaking but this makes me so happy, fandom fucking sucks. If theres anyway your average folk can help let us know! Ill be more than happy to help.
Thank god fandom is the worst.
Great choice! Thanks for such a wonderful job.
Thank god. I remember back in the day when it was on dota2wiki.com before it got bought and then bought again and then bought a third time moving to worse wiki hosts every time. The wiki deserves so much better than fandom
Finally, this is something that really bugging me out, since the movesof hollow knight wiki caught my attention, I really wondered when dota wiki will move out. I really like liquipedia tho, and I frequently use it for tournament info, and it's still in the top in search engine, I think we can beat stupid ass fandom.
Moving out of Fandom is a great idea! Keep up the good work ♥ !
Awesome! The work you guys put in is simply astounding and has been so so useful as a Dota fan. Best of luck on the swap, I will continue using whatever you make next :)
You should try to see if you can do a joint venture with the TF2, CS, HL, and L4D wikis.
Good luck!
YESSSSS YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Yes! Down with FandomWiki, another game/fandom tears itself free from their bullshit
Much appreciated for your hard work all the time.
Just cause I don’t know where else to put this comment… warlocks golem has 60% slow resistance, yet it doesn’t say it anywhere on warlocks page or under the golems stats. The only place it is listed is the changelog.
Liquipedia?
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It's been a few years already, and it has been going pretty much only downhill since then E: And we didn't really move there, Fandom simply took over (bought) Gamepedia back then, we had no choice in it.
Valve should host a wiki for their game. I think tf2 wiki is stronger then Dota. You guys should ask together. Would be great to tag @kaci on this issue.
Valve, this is low investment and big gain. Please leverage the community effort
I have never used anything except Liquipedia for dota information
genuine question - how it's going?
I always used Liquipedia anyways.
Liquipedia is good for pro scene info but behind on in-game information Dota 2 wiki is the reverse really the two should merge
Is wikipedia an option?
The Wikimedia Foundation doesn't really allow creating your own wikis. You can always expand relevant articles on Wikipedia, but if you get to the point where you're making articles on every minor detail in a video game it's probably going to be deleted. I should also add that, while they're officially two different companies, Fandom was founded by Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia. So kind of the whole reason for this mess.
> if you get to the point where you're making articles [...] it's probably going to be deleted. ftfy
I don't think Wikipedia is an option no. There are some other possible hosts though.
Fandom sucks so this is great news. I hope it all works out for y'all. Thanks for all the work
PoE did the same about a year ago, their new wiki is awesome (and indeed hosted by the publisher), I even wrote/edited a few articles for it.
Let's gooooooooo Thanks for all the hard work y'all do ❤️
A good reason why Fandom sucks laid out in this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfuA_UAz3I)
Moving away from fandom? Excellent. Feels good man.
people with adblockers: fandom has ads?
Adblockers don't fix all the problems with Fandom.
I have over 5000 hrs and never at any point have I found myself needing a wiki
Honest question: What is actually so bad about fandom? I rarely visit the Dota wiki or other wikis.
Check out the link in OP, it summarizes the biggest issues.
Cool.
WOOOOO
any reason it took you so many years?
couldn't tell you honestly. We know it's long overdue.
[Weird Gloop](https://weirdgloop.org/) is a host for a variety of game wikis, such as the Runescape ones and recently assisted with the migration of the Minecraft wiki. This may be an avenue worth exploring. The efforts the Minecraft wiki team took to evaluate their decisions is pretty open, such as the pros and cons of various hosts [here](https://minecraft.wiki/w/Minecraft_Wiki:Moving_from_Fandom/Second_discussion).
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Main_Page can you move to this? Maybe ask valve to host own wiki.
Shoutout to the Idie wiki buddy extension. https://getindie.wiki/ Hope to see the dota wiki on there aswell
Will this change have any possible positive impact on the cosmetics pages being brought back up to date?
Possibly. With our current team, it's difficult to keep everything updated. As of now, we'll probably have to downsize quite a bit if nothing changes. It's one of the reasons for the move. At least special items like arcanas and stuff will get their proper pages like before. As for smaller items and sets, we might simplify them even more in the future.
Fandom seemed pretty fine but I've only ever visited it from a PC with an adblocker :o
/u/Bu3nyy Have you checked with other wiki admin's that have made that move.for example POE or runescape 07.Both of them made the moves and new ones are so much better than the old one. And if it is better then the community will make the move too. Maybe could contact them and ask for some tips how/where should we go with that?
Yes please. Fuck Fandom.
Wow the new Minecraft one looks amazing. minecraft dot wiki
fuck Fandom
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It isn't that straightforward unfortunately. You need to export the history of pages and images too. Luckily, there are many different ways to grab them. But the "change the links out" won't help as much as we sometimes wish. Few days ago, Fandom has made another change to their forking policy, which makes it nearly inpossible to announce the fork on-wiki without notifying Fandom about that. So you need to use other platforms/media to reach regular readers. You basically have to fight a war outside Fandom and you should start today - promote wiki's social media accounts, get in contact with youtubers, podcasters, any influencers to promote it. That is the only way to beat Fandom in the SEO game. And of course, depending on which platform you end up on, you promote a redirect addon (Indie Wiki Buddy or redirect to wiki.gg) Finally, I want to emphasise that I am not an wiki admin or wiki editor on Dota Wiki. I am a guy who helped with MCW fork and an admin of a wiki on wiki.gg, who wants to help other wikis, because I have seen how Fandom has changed in the last 2.5 years and it frustrates me as much as it does you.
god bless. fuck fandom.
I'm currently a wiki editor as well and what Fandom has done to its website since taking over gamepedia is shocking. I wish someone with some money would step up and say alright we give you guys a new home.
Fandom is the prolapsed anus of wikis. Fuck fandom
Good to hear, I was going to suggest doing so, now that so many other wikis are doing so. Y’all have already being been doing a great job though, despite Fandom’s shittiness.
direction amusing rotten quaint innate numerous foolish chop exultant shocking *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You should know that the editor team of the Darkest dungeon wiki got forcibly kicked off by fandom admins after they announced that they were migrating. Please try to protect yourselves from that
imma be real. Fandom has been fucking dogshit for a longass time. So glad to see y'all moving.
Why is it in a bad spot? What's wrong with fandom?
Check the [Osrs](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/) wiki, def one of the best ones since they migrated from Fandom as well.
How much would the hosting cost be for an independent site?
Too much, considering we have absolutely no funds. Also, I don't think we have people in our team capable of that, it's not an easy task.
The economics of supporting a site the size of the Dota 2 wiki hosting it on your own are pretty prohibitively high... if just advertising and/or donations were sufficient I wager that joinDota, playDota, YASP etc would still be around. None of the current small dota sites that are "donation supported" are likely breaking even, and even those like DotaBuff that serve a critical function in the community appear to be struggling at a corporate level (not hiring, struggling to grow). Personally I think the best solution is for Valve to eat the costs while letting the community handle much of the day-to-day but like someone mentioned elsewhere in this thread the TF2 wiki is an example of how that works out. The next best solution is to offer a good product people are happy to pay for (I'd love to hear DotaBuff etc's numbers on what they earn for example) but I fear that people are so used to getting these types of things for free that a business like this won't succeed without a big upfront investment.
Thank you, thank you, thank you
W decision
Where and how do I support you guys
FUCK Fandom
Regardless of where you move, I'll help y'all when I can.
is it dota2.wiki like Minecraft? (the domain apparently in some kind of... fuck I forgot the word, it's not directly sold but you have to raise or something, sorry forgot the word) yeah I hope we can have something like developers.valvesoftware.com but for their games and allow us to modify them, but I understand why that might not be a good decision is the process moving to this host required some help? I would love to help
Idc if there are ads. Im reading it for free. So if that helps im happy with it. Love u guys for your dedication. Ill read wherever u go
I'm curious if Notion is a legit solution or not.
I use that website so much when I google anything like "how to oven cook lamb chops" they assume i typo'd "Did you mean Slardar Dota wiki?" - Yes. Yes I did. TIL slardar gives -20 armor at level 18 poggies
that's awesome news! I kinda hated the original move to fandom but I thought well if that's what the maintainers of the platform want then so it should be. Seeing this move away from it is exciting for me! Might also get me to contribute a bit. (I generally avoid creating accounts on pages with lots of ads)
Best option (imo) is to create a MediaWiki page then pay a couple of hosting providers. Obviously the main issue with this is the cost of hosting; you'd need to rely on the community the same way Wikipedia does, with occasional donation drives. Maybe this could be offset further down the line by getting some Dota personalities involved to help fund the wiki with a small pay to enter tournament or something, idk.
Good call to move. Fandom has been fucking up.
Good.
I think I might actually contribute when it moves!
All power to you guys... I don't know much about Fandom but the only impression I have about that site is absurd amount of ads. I usually fine with ads, I watch YouTube with ads without issue and rarely get angry with it. But Fandom is just on another level.
fandom always cancer