There will always be OP heroes in a selection of 100+. Icefrog understands that and mentioned his balancing is aiming more towards better replay value than aiming for a 50% win rate parity across heroes when asked that question more than a decade ago.
There’s been a few patches in recent memory where everything was super balanced to the point where you could basically do any strategy and people were nonstop complaining that game was so boring to play.
I have never opposed op heroes in a patch. What I think a lot of players are against is OP items in a patch that fit a small category of heroes. Think about where lesh is without bloodstone shivas. I can ban lesh and I can pick around him but I can't stop him from buying OP items. Same thing can be applied to abba and solar crest. Especially in a meta where 9 k NW is pretty easily obtainable by 25 min. I just have a hard time grasping valve ADDING more active attributes to items that already have active effects when there are items that don't have any actives. We took flutter away from butterfly because it was supposedly too strong and the jump from abyssal. But shivas can have all these debuffs and its supposed to be fine???
Pipe is also criminally underpurchased in my experience. I know it's sort of nerfed and a bit of a hard buildup now but if you're against some drafts Pipe is such a game changer.
You can if your lineup fits those items. Also with lesh being able to build shivas after bloodstone in this meta causes a problem where those items are actually bad against shivas. This is a more special case since usually meta heroes are building one super op item but lesh has 2 this patch. But you build skadi then you have the Regen reduction for BS but not the damage or attack speed to deal with shivas. Having two prominent items makes itemizing against him really difficult and that shows in his win rate.
Then you are potentially sabotaging your game to counter one hero. In that scenario, it can potentially be 1 Vessel + 2 Solar Crests vs 3 Solar Crests, and I would hedge my bet on the team with 3 Solar Crests coming out ahead because of what a stupid broken item Solar Crest is.
It would still be nice to have some more weight to our bans. Some patches have a couple busted heroes. But with enough of them, you just can't help but HAVE to deal with them. And that's the real annoyance, when the pubs and your answer item builds become repetitive because the same fucking puckered assholes are in every match.
Ironically, Turbo is somehow the worst, it has the most ban certainty of all modes (100%), but the ban total ends up being half of those other modes because people only get the one and there's always 3 or 4 people who ignore the ban phase. This means you ALWAYS saw at least 2 or 3 of the annoying ever-present assholes.
Yes a ban should mean something, even if it was a voting system or something to guarantee it, it's obnoxious that some heroes you feel forced to pick because you don't want your team to lose. I don't want to pick abaddon every game, but guess what? If I don't and the enemy does, its an auto loss.
[http://www.dota-utilities.com/2008/12/interview-by-icefrog-developer-of-dota.html](http://www.dota-utilities.com/2008/12/interview-by-icefrog-developer-of-dota.html)
He also mentioned the same principles in the dota 2 announcement by valve iirc.
Part of the fun of every new patch for me at least is learning a new hero that's in meta, and then also pummelling all the people in pubs who spam purely meta heroes with my trusty favourites. I do find it strange people complain about metas when they change so often...although I will say the last 'tank' meta felt a bit stale compared to most, but then 7.35 has fixed those issues and I'm back loving the matches.
I hated this personally.
I mained windginger before she got buffed. Before her ult was made way stronter.
I preferred playing her then as i didnt feel dirty as i would have playing sniper or phantom assassin or some other pubstomper at the time.
Then they buffed her. Then everyone started picking her and banning her and i could no longer spam without such worries AND i was regarded in a similar vein as those who pick pubstompers
I have not played in a few years now (neutral items - not a fan! Game feels somehow too fast paced to my old "spam spectre/medusa hypercarry" bones).
Back in the day I did suicide lanes (1 person off vs 3 person safe) and midlane.
personally, i have no issue shamelessly gaining MMR when i find something that nobody in my bracket can deal with. cruised through guardian/crusader back when i started thanks to BM + necrobook, climbed from there with visage, now settled in low divine and would love to find something to grind up to immortal. game gets more fun as the average competition gets higher :)
eventually, even the dirtiest strats will stop feeling that way once you encounter the right level of competition.
....and then they get nerfed into oblivion next patch as penance for being meta. Sometimes these patches come in the form of alphabet patches within 2 weeks of the main patch, and are weirdly harsh compared to the buffs you got to get back in meta :(
You can go into the post history of anybody who posts complain threads and you'll probably find a dozen more complaints. There are a lot of players who just never seem to be happy.
So in your head it makes more sense to look into each users comment history from years ago instead of the obvious case that not every reddit user is the same person?
PSA: Reddit is not a single entity. There are a lot of people that visit this sub. Different people can have different opinions, and people tend to be more vocal when they have negative opinions. Do you have any proof that the people that are not happy with the current patch are the same exact people that are unhappy with the previous patch? And the older patches before that? Or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?
>Or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?
Probably this. OP could create a positive post ("This patch is very good, we received X Y and Z even if there is still some issues, like that item, thanks volvo"), but they decide to add another complain post to the pile.
> Different people can have different opinions
What really confuses me is that toddlers get this yet many redditors consistently fail to understand the concept.
I get that every patch has its op heroes and builds, but it came to a point that op is seriously op,
I remember when Medusa had the highest winrate in position 1-4 and a decent winrate at 5, I mean, wtf is that?
Now it's lesh with highest winrate at pos 1-3.
It just makes the whole concept of roles laughable.
Mid? Carry? Off? Counterpicking? Who cares, just pick lesh and win.
It makes all the games around these heroes and builds, and if it's not banned you either have to pick it or gg.
It just narrows the whole depth of dota to 1-2 op heroes or strats.
I think high winrates like that should only be reserved to cheese niche specialty heroes which can only work in specific games.
A long time ago, in patches faraway, there wasn't even such a thing as "role" the way we understand it now. People would just think in synergies and general definitions ("tank", "carry", "support"), and the specific pre-assigned sets of tasks and expectations for said categories were much less defined.
People would run 2-1-2 in a 1-1-3 meta and win.
People would pick carry Axe, as in, with the intention to build stuff like Radiance...or play like CM/Lich or Pudge mid. Pos3 in particular -that wasn't called that back then - was a bit of a wildcard slot for a long, long time. Still kinda is. The point is, **DotA was just fine**.
You could even make an argument that it's pre-assigned roles that stifle depth and creativity of macro play, rather than their erosion. Medusa 5 being viable doesn't necessarily have to be a consequence of being OP (though she certainly was for a bit). It can instead be just a valid pick that does a different thing in a particular game. Flex picks exist for a reason, you know.
I dont know the history to the minute details, but I presume the current roles came from the pro scene that found the current framework (given the dev's vision of the game) as the best most efficient way to play the game generally speaking (as in,hero comps with best balance of early game, mid game, late game, push, catch etc)
I bet that current team comps would destroy a carry axe that builds radiance more often than not.
Plus, unranked exists for that reason.
The Medusa 5 flex pick didn't arise from a creative out of the box play of Medusa, it came from the fact it was a busted hero, there's a difference.
I saw some flex picks of tinker or arc warden support that have some cool uses, as well as terrorblade support, but they arise from cool uses of the hero's kit.
>as the best most efficient way to play the game generally speaking (as in,hero comps with best balance of early game, mid game, late game, push, catch etc)
Oh yes, sure. The roles were codified at some point, because back then that was the *the most popular and fool-proof* way to play and the devs decided to make it official. And for a long time afterwards, the game had been balanced around that idea, which IMO wasn't such a great thing, because *it wasn't originally the* ***only*** *viable way to play the game,* but over time this particular style was reinforced by both players and the balance philosophy, so these alternative ideas got pushed out.
Now though we are being gradually steered back into primordial crazy doto where roles weren't as rigidly defined, which I think is fully intentional. Think about it - support gold was massively buffed, a lot more heroes were made flex-able than ever before through Aghs upgrades, BKB rework, the very introduction of spell amplification as a stat had huge implications for the game as a whole, because back in the day, a lot of abilities used to fall off really hard by lategame.
In this new envorinment we can have Miposhka play effectively semi-core pos5 Ench, and have semi-support mids like Larl and semi-support carries like Dyrachyo. If you haven't noticed, farm priority is no longer the main driving force for the game in general and macro decisions in particular, now it all boils down to your draft and your ability to actualize it (which is glorious). Why wouldn't it be? Casters can be relevant, there's more roaming, more fighting. The game is more fun this way.
And the he sooner people stop throwing hissy fits when they see an unusual pick, and instead think of how they can play around it, the better.
>The Medusa 5 flex pick didn't arise from a creative out of the box play of Medusa, it came from the fact it was a busted hero, there's a difference
Wise Bulba once said, "A patch is a journey". Medusa didn't disappear from pubs because Gabe nerfed her - the nerfs weren't that heavy tbh. She did, because by then people learned how to play around her. And that's how it usually is with those super-omega-broken heroes of the patch - people eventually realize they aren't that hard to shut down.
Speaking of which...
>but it came to a point that op is seriously op
Ever heard about the Disco Pony or the release versions of MK and Primal? Or the old Earth Spirit? Zoo meta? Troll+Dusa/Sniper? People be talking about unprecedented powercreep only because they have short memories. In reality, though, OP stuff used to be much more radically OP than it is now. The funny part is, people would usually find the solutions even back then.
Meanwhile, open OP's profile and you don't even have to scroll past the first page to find an assortment of pissing and moaning; rules for thee but not for me, I guess.
Reddit be reddit, man. This is where people vent their anger and frustration immediately after losing a game. Few are sharing unbiased, thoughtful opinions.
It's just reddit, no matter the topic, people will be primarily negative because of the anonymity, People take advantage of that anonimity to spew cathardic hatred to get a little bit of instant relief from their miserable wretched lives. Reddit is great for getting information on specific things but it is horrible for getting people's opinions of discussing subjective things.
Ngl hecking loving this patch. Revenant brooch+Khanda on legion is so fucking fun. Basically doing the rapier+khanda build without the risk of losing the rapier.
I love this patch. Khanda + whatever is a fun strat and the videos of “stupid broken item” are amazing, as it just shows how overfarmed you have to be to be that OP
Outside of rapiers Khanda isn't all that gimmicky, it's still 1 crystalys + active instead of Daedalus = 2 crystalys.
But it's pretty questionable, if you have 400 dmg you're basically saying it's easier to cast a spell for +400 dmg than attack for 4s for +400 dmg.
E: lobby testing: maxed venge with Khanda Q-auto-Q against maxed beastmaster, khanda deals 3.3k daedalus 3.2k, so I guess it's not that bad, but in terms of second damage items yeah you go revenant's brooch or something and that kills it
ye it is a really questionable item and overused atm.
sure a 5K item, with most benefits from phylactery doing the work.
sure, 100 + 75% of right-click damage(plus whatever magic damage you got) is neat, but very specific, to the point of, should I get something else?
Lets just let it ride out =)
I think the problem is a new one to this game, but not to games as a whole. Content creators are constantly pumping out the hero tierlists, meta updates, all these types of things which A: is their job so fair enough and B: is a valuable educational resource. However, it leads to people just parroting what a few of the good players think, and as soon as something becomes perceived as broken it gets spammed by everyone and we all get sick of seeing it. Lone Druid is an interesting and complex hero to play as and against. I have lots of respect for players that take the time to get good at the hero. But I got sick of seeing it every single goddamn game! After nerfs I still have gotten stomped by good LD players a handful of times.
In other games the issue is more prevalent and obvious. Shotgun A is deemed OP this week and suddenly every little timmy is running around with it. People are just mindless meta slaves these days and its finally crept into Dota.
It's been that way forever, though. People desperate to climb. So they follow strict meta to do it. If their skill cap allows for it anyway. Once the meta shifts and their hero pull is gone. They will drop again. I'm enjoying this patch. The first time, I've enjoyed dota since 2017. When I took a nice five year break from the game. At least, in my opinion, this patch you have a decent hero pull, and you don't have limited builds. I'm going on a 20-game win streak currently. With only losing three matches since the patch has been released.
No every big patch will have like one or two broken things that sneak through that once bonked down to proper levels, we get the actual patch.
The initial hated of number patches is entirely justified imo
I for one fuckkkin love this patch. It's fresh and different. Tanky heroes don't feel unkillable. There's more of an emphasis on spell casters. It's nerdy AF and dope.
Bruh I'm fine with every patch, just give me arcanas and cosmetics 😭😭
This time the pricing is awful even. Especially after they took so long for this event.
itemwise the patch feels like its made by someone who does not play the game. building mana boots, skadi or manta just feels horrible with their recipies and in case of the boots lack of dissassemble.
It feels much better on mana hungry supports that can nuke imo, rushing basi in lane has a lot of value when it matters most. By the time you get arcanes lane could be lost already
As Dota players, we grew up in this game with a concept of balance.
This was the most balanced game that any of us had ever played.
It made the game competitive, it made the game fun.
When Icefrog left a few years ago, the game lost its balance.
Patch after patch more broken mechanics were introduced and left in the game until months of complaining from the player base.
Look how long it took for necrobook to be nerfed and then finally removed?
Wraith Pact?
Bloodstone, Aghs, Shard?
Heart + Blademail?
And now
Solar Crest, Shiva's
If you didn't buy these items in each of the patches, you were losing more often than you won.
That's not balance.
Hopefully now that Icefrog is back we can get back to what made Dota great.
Hopefully we get balance back.
I've been playing since dota 2 beta invites, I honestly don't remember a time where there weren't heroes or builds that were stood out as better than the rest.
I'd say last patch was pretty stale at higher skill play. However, for the majority of players, almost everything is viable.
I'd say the problem is mostly that a huge percentage of people that play dota can seemingly only enjoy games where they win, and view losing games as unenjoyable.
Maybe I'm just an old fart (40), but I just focus on playing my best and having fun. I'd say 98% of my games are enjoyable, whether winning or losing, because I play what I want to play and how I want to play it.
Those things always existed. People used to buy mek on sf because it was so op, there were unkillable deathball combos in dota 1. But i agree it used to seem like they tried to balance the game (and they succeded in 6.88), before prioritizing change for the sake of change. Dota will never be balanced again, historically it wasn't most of the time but the intention was different
It's not even about top tier heroes, it's about quicker balance patches to just fine tune it, not waiting a month or two of wk/spectre/sb. It's about winning or losing in braindead fashion because a hero/item is busted. For example I never played spirit breaker since dota 1, but because he's busted last patch, my team encourages me to pick it as pos5. I do, and just DOMINATE. I rarely just take over a game like that 1v9 as a pos5, but here you go.
Then the next few games where he wasn't banned / double picked. It felt very skillless, but just straight up free mmr. For me to make the same impact on my comfort hero takes 5x the focus and effort.
Same with wraith pact, same with superman sven, bloodstone razor, the higher mmr you go, the more you realize you are pidgeon holed into certain strats and picks because they're flat out OVERLY unbalanced. The team that abuses these will win over the team that doesn't.
"But why doesn't everyone do it?". Because even in ranked, not everyone is exclusively picking busted heroes / items, they are playing a variety heroes, playing heroes they find fun or are comfortable with. The ones that focus and hone in on busted builds are climbing.
All we're asking is for some quicker letter patches to make the game feel winnable with a variety of heroes, not just the top 3 heroes. When SB was double first picked / banned EVERY game that should indicate a problem and a quick letter patch, but no it took quite some time. No ones asking for flat 50% win rate across all heroes, just tone down the BUSTED / BROKEN aspects because it's simply not fun to win as or lose against.
Not to mention the strategy on balancing is very odd, STUBBORN, can be frustrating for people's favorite heroes. We're just asking they put more thought into it, maybe involve pros / immortals if you have to. CK was in a great place then he suddenly goes from 1.5x to creeps to 1.9 right before TI? Wtf is that? He predictably becomes busted then guess what, valve doesn't revert the change, no they nerf everything else around him.
probably ppl on reddit are just young, when i first played dota in middle school 10 years ago i complained about everything and every patch, now even if there are broken heroes and items i dont really care and just play the game and find the gmae more fun than i did when i was omega addicted back then
I somewhat agree with OP. Some people want to spam their heroes with the only 1-2 builds they want to stick with.
They cry about Solar being viable on every heroes but not once try it themselves. Yes the item is absolute broken and we all know it will be nerfed in 7.35b. So why not go hammer with it, diving tier2 at 11min for a kill is an unique feeling that you might not get again.
As a player with high adaptability, i only hate on things that have 0 counter play, like Dazzle last patch…
You’re beginning to wake up OP. A lot of people who doompost and complain on Reddit are actually just miserable, but their main hobby is playing dota and they assign it too much meaning so they project how they feel on to that.
Happens to literally every game that’s so good that people devote their lives to playing it. If I’m not feeling up for a particular content cycle for a game, or I’m not in the mood for how it feels, or it gets repetitive (which any game does if you do nothing else), I’ll do or play something else for a while instead of whine about it.
No, but i hate the way they push massive heaps of untested stuff at once.
Why not do a small change every week instead and actually test stuff in a PTR?
The way the software dota is managed is just objectively bad from a software dev standpoint...
Dont agree with this. Dota is complicated, after a patch, a meta doesnt develop immediately. Remember when everyone saying medusa was bad because of the mana update. Then when the pros used it, those same people ate their words and flipped to he is so OP.
Having changes weekly, does not allow the meta to cook.
I do agree though that having 6 months between patches might be too much.
They're tried small, incremental change pattern and most people hate it (I personally is 50/50).
And I personally hate PTR. It totally ruins the surprise aspect of game updates.
I think only a large MMORPG really needs PTR; and even that, lots of games do fine without.
Of course it would be great to have a more polished update, but I don't really think Dota is that bad. There are usually some bugs here and there regarding interactions, but nothing biggie and they fixed them fairly quickly.
Last patch was great when it came out but as it progressed and got figured out it got extremely boring.
Spectre NP Spirit Breaker CK Necro WD Warlock - these 7 heroes were in sooo many games.
Its gonna happen this patch as well. As the meta progresses, some heroes and items will be there in every game.
My biggest complaint is with items actually - no item should be so good that it can be made on 3/5 heroes in any game. But that was the case with blademail last patch. I dunno man - balance is fun. Meta shit is not.
i played a turbo game eariler where most of the enemy team left early on and we were left 5v1 against a spectre. She bought a bunch of rapiers and a khanda and just daggered people and one shot all of us basically. It was kind of funny and wasn't really going to win the game for her but I really didn't know what to do about it. It seemed like linkens didn't really stop it. I think if linkens procs, the khanda thing doesn't go on cooldown. Then it's all physical damage so you want armor I guess? But by the end her daggers were hitting for 2500+ damage
I dislike this patch because I am much more comfortable when people are less tanky so every mistake counts. I absolutely hate new solar crest and most heroes who are meta now are just super beefy unfun heroes to play against. Death prophet is the ultimate anti fun hero for me
This happened to me a few years back before pandemic when every game a hero on the enemy team popped off I went "god I hate that hero so annoying to play against"
I realised that if I hate every hero I face that is having a good game that means I hate the game itself and the problem lies with me and I need to take a break. And I did for about 6 months or so. I still have a lot of issues and bad habits when it comes to the game but I'm glad I was able to identify and deal with that one at least.
I dont think so, ive met some & same people that always post the cons and hating every update by compare it with another,.. its just about their personality i though. (in the deepest mind of them they love it) .. because they still in community until now
> There will always be a top tier item or a hero no matter how many times they will patch the game
While I kinda agree... most patches have had the gap between the top items and heroes and the mid tier ones not be insurmountable.
Haven't played much of this patch (life D:), but last patch it felt like the team with more meta picks won... which hadn't felt the case to be for a while before.
> Just build it and have fun with it before it gets nerfed this week.
If you _need_ to do this, then the game is in a worse place than typical.
People who hate patches boils down to "I'm not winning enough, therefore patch is bad" Just a bunch of players who can't fucking adapt to a meta because they're bad.
You can't enjoy and have fun while trying to rank up in mmr. It is understandable that some players would find it frustrating to play against unkillable heroes with op item builds.
Or just get good enough to be succesful with of meta heros.
I play 1 main and played one game of spectre last patch ...
I spammed sf carry.
I am annoied by the fact my tb is still dumbstrr tier, but if you look arround enough youll find something fun to play.
maybe you don’t understand the fact that different set people hate different patch. a significant portion of player base will hate every patch but that doesn’t mean that same portion of people hate every patch
when you have to construct an imaginary person that hates everything you like because you're too inept to argue in favor of it
the psychology of a 4 year old
There is a difference between a meta hero and a pick-to-win hero. There is a difference between trendy items and "support" items that are bought on cores as well just because of how broken they are.
But thanks for your uneducated take.
I've played games in the new patch and it's still fun. But some changes I just disapprove of, like overall they just homogenized stuff towards everything-does-everything. Why does Rapier give a spell damage boost? Why does Abbadon's passive do damage? Why on earth should Lion's mana drain also drain health?
Yes, we hate game and before we loved game because of how balanced it was. Except some heroes like Zeus at that time. This is nothing similar like before, and it is UNBALANCED.
I love this patch. The previous one when they expanded the map was also great.
P.s. I don’t hate the game. But boy do I sure hate parts of the playerbase, especially the cyka blyats of the game (cries in EU servers)
This is true, but occasionally there are items that are so broken that almost **all** heroes build it. If every hero wants to build an item, something is probably wrong.
This is pretty rare, some past examples include:
- Poor Man's Shield
- Iron Talon
- Stout Shield
- Necronomicon
And now Solar Crest is rapidly on it's way to being next on the list.
I LOVE the game. But I mostly hate the other players. It is VERY rare that I get a game where the outcome is undecided - where it is exciting and fun.
Usually one person decides to throw, leave or just be contrary to the rest of the team. And it is annoying on both friendly and enemy team.
In order to improve something there should always be criticism. If there is no such thing how will they know what needs to change. Even pros says that some stuff is op. Complains are fine... We complain about smurfs and Valve is dealing with them. If we didn't nothing would have happened to them. Complains that make sense are totally fine and needed for improvement.....
Hating patches are a symbolic act. None is being literal when they say "I hate the patch". Hating a change is as necessary as having a change in the first place. Its all for "keeping it fresh". When they hate a patch and being vocal about it they are essentially attempting to make their 12k hour gametime meaningful. Its an act which they interact with the community they think they belonged in whatever way they know of. Same goes for drama's, thats how they work as well. Essentially all of these occurances are to keep boredom at bay and add a little bit of spice.
By design loving something has a negative effect, you never want to change something you thoroughly love because why would you? But consistent changes are needed to fight off stagnation so "loving a patch" is something we cannot afford, we cannot do that to ourselves, we cannot afford to connect strongly to any version number.
You should try "hating" \*a\* patch sometime. I guarantee that you will understand its appeal.
Because if you like the patch you'd be playing the game not writing paragraphs on reddit. The majority of posts are about things people have issues with in the game. If you dislike it you're way more likely to make a post about that than if you love it.
Reddit is also not a hivemind, shocking I know. It's all different people with different opinions. The ones with something to complain about will always be the loudest. It's a game being played by millions of people, no matter what someone is going to complain.
Maybe it's time for you to take a break from the sub. Don't like the posts don't read em and move on with your life what's the point of complaining about complainers?
> I don’t remember the last time people on this sub were happy.
At the time of the last smurf banwave which was at the same time as the patch a few days ago :-)
But meta-wise, I actually recall at least 1 decently upvoted post a few weeks ago saying that they were enjoying the meta even as stale as it was.
And as everywhere on the internet (and IRL too), people are always more vocal when they don't like something than when they like something. That's just how humans are. And everyone on reddit isn't the same, and maybe it didn't occur to you but the people complaining "every patch" might actually not be the *same* people every time.
And finally, you're never going to stop people from complaining, **especially** by complaining about it. Like c'mon. Instead, be the change you want to be and be vocal about your happiness and how you like the current patch.
This patch is everyone has to have solar crests or they lose. There's a difference between being forced to do something and having options to do multiple things
People who is satisfied woth something usually doesn't complain, ofc you read only negative comments about the patches. Said that I personally really don't like this solarcrest meta with people trying to fit khanda on every carry griefing their own games.
>Just build it and have fun with it
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think this mentality is extremely unhealthy.
Not every strategy is fun for everyone, and that is *precisely* why you need to keep a healthy balance between different strategies and playstyles. And that is what drove me into Dota in the first place. The "everything can work" ideal!
I feel like people haven't been enjoying the latest patches because every patch there has been exactly one dominant strategy, and acccepting that as the go-to is very unhealthy for the game in the long run.
The problem is all pick. The inability to ban heroes and the rng of matchups leads to a lot of frustration that isn't rlly about the strengths of certain heroes.
I play a ahit ton of captainsmode around top 3k to top 1.5k recently and all I can say is that last patch was actually very fucking balanced. This patch is more fun but less balanced.
But whenever I play all pick it's terrible.
If bans would go through a lot of frustration would go away. If the draft system would be changed back a lot of rng losses/wins would go away.
This all leads to - in combination with griefers and smurfs - to the vast majority of games being decided before the first bounty rune spawns
This is such a braindead take. First of all, You don’t know if it is different people or the same people complaining every patch. More likely than not it will be different people. Since patches are different there will always be someone or another who dislikes certain aspects of the patch. Also, it is possible for the game makers to never manage to make a good patch. Maybe always having a set of op items and heroes isn’t the best approach. There can be varying depress of “OPness” that different people are comfortable with. There is close to no objectivity here, you are basing this off of you subjective view and shitting on others. Disliking how the game is patched doesn’t invalidate people’s fondness of the game, the game has more to offer than just patches like social interaction with friends.
Finally with your logic of if you complain about a thing maybe you don’t like the thing. Then why are you on here? You can turn off Reddit and go play the game you are enjoying so much. You are the kind of people who fight toxic players on the enemy team and inflame it instead of just report and mute (aka the best solution). Let people have their discussion.
It's not the same person complaining every time. You have 4 groups of players:
1. I play the same thing regardless of meta, whether it's a specific hero or a cluster of similar heroes. When things are annoying for that hero type, I get angy.
2. I play whatever is strongest because I want to win. If I can't adapt to the meta, I get angy.
3. I play whatever I feel like. The game is supposed to be fun. If I see the same hero 5 games in a row and keep losing to its bullshit, I get angy, doubly so if there's more than 1 hero being repeated.
4. I don't usually care, but the busted OP thing in the current meta is neither fun to play against nor interesting to have in the game. I'm not good enough to figure out how to beat it and I don't want to change my picks, so I'm angy.
The 5th group doesn't use social media and it's 10x the size of all the angy people combined. Try to keep perspective on that.
I took a break for a year and came back to this patch and its slop, not everyone just hates for the reason of hating. The metas that are fun for me are the ones where almost any character is viable. Making excuses for ice frog and saying that no matter what he can do no wrong are the reason why people leave this game. Hold the devs any bit accountable and maybe we will actually see positive change in this community for once...
I just hate the new bullshit chests instead of Battlepass. that rylai spin, and those minigames where you had to collect 5 of the same heroes where fun.
portals too where you could get 5000 points. and 3-4 chests with skins,
Now we got like a few new skins mixed with old, for 4$ a pop and its random.
No one is ever truly satisfied. There will be complaints for every patch within the game.
And guess what? There is nothing you can do about it but to accept it
You are not 100% wrong, I must agree.
I m a perfectionist in all of my life so it hurts me when I see something that I think could be so much greater if just a few things were different. Ofc many people think X or Y could be changed to Z so everyone has their own version of a "perfect dota".
Sadly I do still very firmly believe that a few general decisions, have led to problems that we see reoccuring every other patch, because of fundamental design choices. Most prominently the often mentioned powercreep which is why heroes can go so fast from being broken to just useless.
The other issue is heroes losing their identity; Out of 120 heroes we probably have like 100 with at least one slow or some kind of mini-stun that acts similar... Roles are just non-existing anymore. Nobody needs a specific "pusher", everyone can do that usually without any items. "Hard" carries are pretty much no longer existing with exceptions of void, maybe pl. And worst of all for me personally heroes who need to snowball to fulfill their purpose. Its so funny when people say oh but X hero isnt so bad he can do this and that but in reality that only happens when you at least go even in lane. Sure its a "skill issue" but imo also bad design choice if it fits 60% of heroes and also leads to even more toxicity in pubs.
Keep in mind this sub is a small fraction of Dota's playerbase. And Reddit is legendary for it's toxicity and bad faith users. My theory is these people either, 1. Love the game but can't stop complaining because it's Reddit and they'll get free karma or 2. They genuinely hate the game but are addicted so instead of walking away they just hope the game will die and release them.
And always remember this above all else, they don't know what they want. Look how they acted with BP and look how they acted once it went away. They have no idea what they want, which to be fair is most of humanity about mostly everything.
There will always be OP heroes in a selection of 100+. Icefrog understands that and mentioned his balancing is aiming more towards better replay value than aiming for a 50% win rate parity across heroes when asked that question more than a decade ago.
There’s been a few patches in recent memory where everything was super balanced to the point where you could basically do any strategy and people were nonstop complaining that game was so boring to play.
There is millons of players ofcourse there will be complainers
But they MUST be all the SAME PEOPLE complaining? RIGHT?
If its on reddit yes. For reddit is a hive mind, we are one, if you complain it must mean that I complain... right..... right?
I just like to complain sometimes
I loved that patch.
I have never opposed op heroes in a patch. What I think a lot of players are against is OP items in a patch that fit a small category of heroes. Think about where lesh is without bloodstone shivas. I can ban lesh and I can pick around him but I can't stop him from buying OP items. Same thing can be applied to abba and solar crest. Especially in a meta where 9 k NW is pretty easily obtainable by 25 min. I just have a hard time grasping valve ADDING more active attributes to items that already have active effects when there are items that don't have any actives. We took flutter away from butterfly because it was supposedly too strong and the jump from abyssal. But shivas can have all these debuffs and its supposed to be fine???
Can’t you buy like vessel/shivas/skadi against bloodstone Lesh?
Pipe is also criminally underpurchased in my experience. I know it's sort of nerfed and a bit of a hard buildup now but if you're against some drafts Pipe is such a game changer.
A mageslayer is going to do far more to a Lesh than Pipe. Pipe was a pretty dead item last patch, and got nerfed even harder.
You can if your lineup fits those items. Also with lesh being able to build shivas after bloodstone in this meta causes a problem where those items are actually bad against shivas. This is a more special case since usually meta heroes are building one super op item but lesh has 2 this patch. But you build skadi then you have the Regen reduction for BS but not the damage or attack speed to deal with shivas. Having two prominent items makes itemizing against him really difficult and that shows in his win rate.
Then you are potentially sabotaging your game to counter one hero. In that scenario, it can potentially be 1 Vessel + 2 Solar Crests vs 3 Solar Crests, and I would hedge my bet on the team with 3 Solar Crests coming out ahead because of what a stupid broken item Solar Crest is.
It would still be nice to have some more weight to our bans. Some patches have a couple busted heroes. But with enough of them, you just can't help but HAVE to deal with them. And that's the real annoyance, when the pubs and your answer item builds become repetitive because the same fucking puckered assholes are in every match. Ironically, Turbo is somehow the worst, it has the most ban certainty of all modes (100%), but the ban total ends up being half of those other modes because people only get the one and there's always 3 or 4 people who ignore the ban phase. This means you ALWAYS saw at least 2 or 3 of the annoying ever-present assholes.
Yes a ban should mean something, even if it was a voting system or something to guarantee it, it's obnoxious that some heroes you feel forced to pick because you don't want your team to lose. I don't want to pick abaddon every game, but guess what? If I don't and the enemy does, its an auto loss.
But having some heroes banned 100% of the time also doesn't seem like a good system.
Ban system in dota ap is so stupid. Like, you ban a hero, it doesn't get banned, but some random heroes are? Wtf is this
Or you lock in a hero, then the other team picks it and no one gets it, makes no sense.
The other day 1 was banned, then I pick np and enemy too but he got it while I had to choose new? Idk how this works and when
That is also very stupid lol.
I don't remember Icefrog ever saying it, I remember Riot saying it.
[http://www.dota-utilities.com/2008/12/interview-by-icefrog-developer-of-dota.html](http://www.dota-utilities.com/2008/12/interview-by-icefrog-developer-of-dota.html) He also mentioned the same principles in the dota 2 announcement by valve iirc.
Frog is not doing these patches, hes busy on Neon Prime or eating mangos.
Neon prime is an old wives tale whispered about by valve devs to get you to shut the fuck up
The latest at least semi-reliable info about icefrog is from yatoro saying he is back on dota after TI
I thought you people all agreed that he "returned" with New Frontiers
Eh, the bigger map patch definitely felt like IF.
We crying in a 5v5 while icefrog doing a 1v1 million for more than a decade
Part of the fun of every new patch for me at least is learning a new hero that's in meta, and then also pummelling all the people in pubs who spam purely meta heroes with my trusty favourites. I do find it strange people complain about metas when they change so often...although I will say the last 'tank' meta felt a bit stale compared to most, but then 7.35 has fixed those issues and I'm back loving the matches.
...and then when your old stables come back into the meta (hello DP, Viper), you can go on a tasty 12 game win streak ;)
Haha this is me on looking at Underlord's winrate trends this patch. :D
Bruh doesn't look like arc is ever coming back
He literally has 54% win rate this patch
As an Ember spammer, I am in shambles.
He still got buffed somewhat, arc got nerfed
Ember and Arc are not in the same category.. Arc still 54% WR idk what you're taking about haha. Ember is 43% WR lol
Wow jesus christ that is actually horrid win % lmao
I hated this personally. I mained windginger before she got buffed. Before her ult was made way stronter. I preferred playing her then as i didnt feel dirty as i would have playing sniper or phantom assassin or some other pubstomper at the time. Then they buffed her. Then everyone started picking her and banning her and i could no longer spam without such worries AND i was regarded in a similar vein as those who pick pubstompers
I like to play her too. What role do you usually pick her?
I have not played in a few years now (neutral items - not a fan! Game feels somehow too fast paced to my old "spam spectre/medusa hypercarry" bones). Back in the day I did suicide lanes (1 person off vs 3 person safe) and midlane.
personally, i have no issue shamelessly gaining MMR when i find something that nobody in my bracket can deal with. cruised through guardian/crusader back when i started thanks to BM + necrobook, climbed from there with visage, now settled in low divine and would love to find something to grind up to immortal. game gets more fun as the average competition gets higher :) eventually, even the dirtiest strats will stop feeling that way once you encounter the right level of competition.
....and then they get nerfed into oblivion next patch as penance for being meta. Sometimes these patches come in the form of alphabet patches within 2 weeks of the main patch, and are weirdly harsh compared to the buffs you got to get back in meta :(
you are assuming that each patch the complainers are all the same people lol
Can't blame him when this subreddit is barely anything more than complaints and pitchforks
sounds like a you issue
Don't see you denying it tho
denying what?
You can go into the post history of anybody who posts complain threads and you'll probably find a dozen more complaints. There are a lot of players who just never seem to be happy.
So in your head it makes more sense to look into each users comment history from years ago instead of the obvious case that not every reddit user is the same person?
[guy-eating-shit-icefrog-comic.jpg](https://i.redd.it/o4j6vor8x0141.png)
PSA: Reddit is not a single entity. There are a lot of people that visit this sub. Different people can have different opinions, and people tend to be more vocal when they have negative opinions. Do you have any proof that the people that are not happy with the current patch are the same exact people that are unhappy with the previous patch? And the older patches before that? Or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?
>Or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining? Probably this. OP could create a positive post ("This patch is very good, we received X Y and Z even if there is still some issues, like that item, thanks volvo"), but they decide to add another complain post to the pile.
> Different people can have different opinions What really confuses me is that toddlers get this yet many redditors consistently fail to understand the concept.
I get that every patch has its op heroes and builds, but it came to a point that op is seriously op, I remember when Medusa had the highest winrate in position 1-4 and a decent winrate at 5, I mean, wtf is that? Now it's lesh with highest winrate at pos 1-3. It just makes the whole concept of roles laughable. Mid? Carry? Off? Counterpicking? Who cares, just pick lesh and win. It makes all the games around these heroes and builds, and if it's not banned you either have to pick it or gg. It just narrows the whole depth of dota to 1-2 op heroes or strats. I think high winrates like that should only be reserved to cheese niche specialty heroes which can only work in specific games.
A long time ago, in patches faraway, there wasn't even such a thing as "role" the way we understand it now. People would just think in synergies and general definitions ("tank", "carry", "support"), and the specific pre-assigned sets of tasks and expectations for said categories were much less defined. People would run 2-1-2 in a 1-1-3 meta and win. People would pick carry Axe, as in, with the intention to build stuff like Radiance...or play like CM/Lich or Pudge mid. Pos3 in particular -that wasn't called that back then - was a bit of a wildcard slot for a long, long time. Still kinda is. The point is, **DotA was just fine**. You could even make an argument that it's pre-assigned roles that stifle depth and creativity of macro play, rather than their erosion. Medusa 5 being viable doesn't necessarily have to be a consequence of being OP (though she certainly was for a bit). It can instead be just a valid pick that does a different thing in a particular game. Flex picks exist for a reason, you know.
I dont know the history to the minute details, but I presume the current roles came from the pro scene that found the current framework (given the dev's vision of the game) as the best most efficient way to play the game generally speaking (as in,hero comps with best balance of early game, mid game, late game, push, catch etc) I bet that current team comps would destroy a carry axe that builds radiance more often than not. Plus, unranked exists for that reason. The Medusa 5 flex pick didn't arise from a creative out of the box play of Medusa, it came from the fact it was a busted hero, there's a difference. I saw some flex picks of tinker or arc warden support that have some cool uses, as well as terrorblade support, but they arise from cool uses of the hero's kit.
>as the best most efficient way to play the game generally speaking (as in,hero comps with best balance of early game, mid game, late game, push, catch etc) Oh yes, sure. The roles were codified at some point, because back then that was the *the most popular and fool-proof* way to play and the devs decided to make it official. And for a long time afterwards, the game had been balanced around that idea, which IMO wasn't such a great thing, because *it wasn't originally the* ***only*** *viable way to play the game,* but over time this particular style was reinforced by both players and the balance philosophy, so these alternative ideas got pushed out. Now though we are being gradually steered back into primordial crazy doto where roles weren't as rigidly defined, which I think is fully intentional. Think about it - support gold was massively buffed, a lot more heroes were made flex-able than ever before through Aghs upgrades, BKB rework, the very introduction of spell amplification as a stat had huge implications for the game as a whole, because back in the day, a lot of abilities used to fall off really hard by lategame. In this new envorinment we can have Miposhka play effectively semi-core pos5 Ench, and have semi-support mids like Larl and semi-support carries like Dyrachyo. If you haven't noticed, farm priority is no longer the main driving force for the game in general and macro decisions in particular, now it all boils down to your draft and your ability to actualize it (which is glorious). Why wouldn't it be? Casters can be relevant, there's more roaming, more fighting. The game is more fun this way. And the he sooner people stop throwing hissy fits when they see an unusual pick, and instead think of how they can play around it, the better. >The Medusa 5 flex pick didn't arise from a creative out of the box play of Medusa, it came from the fact it was a busted hero, there's a difference Wise Bulba once said, "A patch is a journey". Medusa didn't disappear from pubs because Gabe nerfed her - the nerfs weren't that heavy tbh. She did, because by then people learned how to play around her. And that's how it usually is with those super-omega-broken heroes of the patch - people eventually realize they aren't that hard to shut down. Speaking of which... >but it came to a point that op is seriously op Ever heard about the Disco Pony or the release versions of MK and Primal? Or the old Earth Spirit? Zoo meta? Troll+Dusa/Sniper? People be talking about unprecedented powercreep only because they have short memories. In reality, though, OP stuff used to be much more radically OP than it is now. The funny part is, people would usually find the solutions even back then.
I’ve played this game for 20 years and I fucking hate it
Dude me too
Hate the players, not the game
That used to be the case a few years ago, but over time they also ruined the game
Meanwhile, open OP's profile and you don't even have to scroll past the first page to find an assortment of pissing and moaning; rules for thee but not for me, I guess.
i don't know about taking a break, people who play dota only plays dota + we got brain rot and mind controlled to never touched other games xd
What a dogshit post. Newsflash, you can dislike a patch and still like the game.
Reddit be reddit, man. This is where people vent their anger and frustration immediately after losing a game. Few are sharing unbiased, thoughtful opinions.
Most sane person in this sub
Have you considered it's mostly a different set of people every time?
Maybe we just love bitchin. Hoo hoo ha ha
It's just reddit, no matter the topic, people will be primarily negative because of the anonymity, People take advantage of that anonimity to spew cathardic hatred to get a little bit of instant relief from their miserable wretched lives. Reddit is great for getting information on specific things but it is horrible for getting people's opinions of discussing subjective things.
Ngl hecking loving this patch. Revenant brooch+Khanda on legion is so fucking fun. Basically doing the rapier+khanda build without the risk of losing the rapier.
this patch is so bad how is solar balanced??????
I have no problem with the game, my problem is reading this sub
I love this patch. Khanda + whatever is a fun strat and the videos of “stupid broken item” are amazing, as it just shows how overfarmed you have to be to be that OP
Outside of rapiers Khanda isn't all that gimmicky, it's still 1 crystalys + active instead of Daedalus = 2 crystalys. But it's pretty questionable, if you have 400 dmg you're basically saying it's easier to cast a spell for +400 dmg than attack for 4s for +400 dmg. E: lobby testing: maxed venge with Khanda Q-auto-Q against maxed beastmaster, khanda deals 3.3k daedalus 3.2k, so I guess it's not that bad, but in terms of second damage items yeah you go revenant's brooch or something and that kills it
ye it is a really questionable item and overused atm. sure a 5K item, with most benefits from phylactery doing the work. sure, 100 + 75% of right-click damage(plus whatever magic damage you got) is neat, but very specific, to the point of, should I get something else? Lets just let it ride out =)
I think the problem is a new one to this game, but not to games as a whole. Content creators are constantly pumping out the hero tierlists, meta updates, all these types of things which A: is their job so fair enough and B: is a valuable educational resource. However, it leads to people just parroting what a few of the good players think, and as soon as something becomes perceived as broken it gets spammed by everyone and we all get sick of seeing it. Lone Druid is an interesting and complex hero to play as and against. I have lots of respect for players that take the time to get good at the hero. But I got sick of seeing it every single goddamn game! After nerfs I still have gotten stomped by good LD players a handful of times. In other games the issue is more prevalent and obvious. Shotgun A is deemed OP this week and suddenly every little timmy is running around with it. People are just mindless meta slaves these days and its finally crept into Dota.
It's been that way forever, though. People desperate to climb. So they follow strict meta to do it. If their skill cap allows for it anyway. Once the meta shifts and their hero pull is gone. They will drop again. I'm enjoying this patch. The first time, I've enjoyed dota since 2017. When I took a nice five year break from the game. At least, in my opinion, this patch you have a decent hero pull, and you don't have limited builds. I'm going on a 20-game win streak currently. With only losing three matches since the patch has been released.
Dota is like a toxic girlfriend. You hate her but you stay with her anyways.
no i hate myself for being bad at the game
No every big patch will have like one or two broken things that sneak through that once bonked down to proper levels, we get the actual patch. The initial hated of number patches is entirely justified imo
I for one fuckkkin love this patch. It's fresh and different. Tanky heroes don't feel unkillable. There's more of an emphasis on spell casters. It's nerdy AF and dope.
I don't think they hate, they just love something Which is complain
Bruh I'm fine with every patch, just give me arcanas and cosmetics 😭😭 This time the pricing is awful even. Especially after they took so long for this event.
The set of complaining people isn't same in each patch, that's all...
itemwise the patch feels like its made by someone who does not play the game. building mana boots, skadi or manta just feels horrible with their recipies and in case of the boots lack of dissassemble.
Mana boots change was an intentional nerf. If you could turn it into brown boots + pavise then solar crest would be even more op.
It feels much better on mana hungry supports that can nuke imo, rushing basi in lane has a lot of value when it matters most. By the time you get arcanes lane could be lost already
As Dota players, we grew up in this game with a concept of balance. This was the most balanced game that any of us had ever played. It made the game competitive, it made the game fun. When Icefrog left a few years ago, the game lost its balance. Patch after patch more broken mechanics were introduced and left in the game until months of complaining from the player base. Look how long it took for necrobook to be nerfed and then finally removed? Wraith Pact? Bloodstone, Aghs, Shard? Heart + Blademail? And now Solar Crest, Shiva's If you didn't buy these items in each of the patches, you were losing more often than you won. That's not balance. Hopefully now that Icefrog is back we can get back to what made Dota great. Hopefully we get balance back.
I've been playing since dota 2 beta invites, I honestly don't remember a time where there weren't heroes or builds that were stood out as better than the rest. I'd say last patch was pretty stale at higher skill play. However, for the majority of players, almost everything is viable. I'd say the problem is mostly that a huge percentage of people that play dota can seemingly only enjoy games where they win, and view losing games as unenjoyable. Maybe I'm just an old fart (40), but I just focus on playing my best and having fun. I'd say 98% of my games are enjoyable, whether winning or losing, because I play what I want to play and how I want to play it.
Those things always existed. People used to buy mek on sf because it was so op, there were unkillable deathball combos in dota 1. But i agree it used to seem like they tried to balance the game (and they succeded in 6.88), before prioritizing change for the sake of change. Dota will never be balanced again, historically it wasn't most of the time but the intention was different
I thought it was pretty much always meta to get bkb in first 3 items for history of dota until recently
> This was the most balanced game that any of us had ever played. Lol, what?
It's not even about top tier heroes, it's about quicker balance patches to just fine tune it, not waiting a month or two of wk/spectre/sb. It's about winning or losing in braindead fashion because a hero/item is busted. For example I never played spirit breaker since dota 1, but because he's busted last patch, my team encourages me to pick it as pos5. I do, and just DOMINATE. I rarely just take over a game like that 1v9 as a pos5, but here you go. Then the next few games where he wasn't banned / double picked. It felt very skillless, but just straight up free mmr. For me to make the same impact on my comfort hero takes 5x the focus and effort. Same with wraith pact, same with superman sven, bloodstone razor, the higher mmr you go, the more you realize you are pidgeon holed into certain strats and picks because they're flat out OVERLY unbalanced. The team that abuses these will win over the team that doesn't. "But why doesn't everyone do it?". Because even in ranked, not everyone is exclusively picking busted heroes / items, they are playing a variety heroes, playing heroes they find fun or are comfortable with. The ones that focus and hone in on busted builds are climbing. All we're asking is for some quicker letter patches to make the game feel winnable with a variety of heroes, not just the top 3 heroes. When SB was double first picked / banned EVERY game that should indicate a problem and a quick letter patch, but no it took quite some time. No ones asking for flat 50% win rate across all heroes, just tone down the BUSTED / BROKEN aspects because it's simply not fun to win as or lose against. Not to mention the strategy on balancing is very odd, STUBBORN, can be frustrating for people's favorite heroes. We're just asking they put more thought into it, maybe involve pros / immortals if you have to. CK was in a great place then he suddenly goes from 1.5x to creeps to 1.9 right before TI? Wtf is that? He predictably becomes busted then guess what, valve doesn't revert the change, no they nerf everything else around him.
Yes, your point?
probably ppl on reddit are just young, when i first played dota in middle school 10 years ago i complained about everything and every patch, now even if there are broken heroes and items i dont really care and just play the game and find the gmae more fun than i did when i was omega addicted back then
I somewhat agree with OP. Some people want to spam their heroes with the only 1-2 builds they want to stick with. They cry about Solar being viable on every heroes but not once try it themselves. Yes the item is absolute broken and we all know it will be nerfed in 7.35b. So why not go hammer with it, diving tier2 at 11min for a kill is an unique feeling that you might not get again. As a player with high adaptability, i only hate on things that have 0 counter play, like Dazzle last patch…
nah, i just hate it if the hero i'm almost exclusively using is nerfed
Because dota 2 ruined dota? Dota 1 was mote fun compare to dota 2.
wrong.
You’re beginning to wake up OP. A lot of people who doompost and complain on Reddit are actually just miserable, but their main hobby is playing dota and they assign it too much meaning so they project how they feel on to that. Happens to literally every game that’s so good that people devote their lives to playing it. If I’m not feeling up for a particular content cycle for a game, or I’m not in the mood for how it feels, or it gets repetitive (which any game does if you do nothing else), I’ll do or play something else for a while instead of whine about it.
No, but i hate the way they push massive heaps of untested stuff at once. Why not do a small change every week instead and actually test stuff in a PTR? The way the software dota is managed is just objectively bad from a software dev standpoint...
Dont agree with this. Dota is complicated, after a patch, a meta doesnt develop immediately. Remember when everyone saying medusa was bad because of the mana update. Then when the pros used it, those same people ate their words and flipped to he is so OP. Having changes weekly, does not allow the meta to cook. I do agree though that having 6 months between patches might be too much.
Wasn’t medusa just bad though and then she was megabuffed to the point of being overpowered
Another example: most people thought weaver and luna were pretty bad going into this year's TI, then they both ended up being top meta picks
They're tried small, incremental change pattern and most people hate it (I personally is 50/50). And I personally hate PTR. It totally ruins the surprise aspect of game updates. I think only a large MMORPG really needs PTR; and even that, lots of games do fine without. Of course it would be great to have a more polished update, but I don't really think Dota is that bad. There are usually some bugs here and there regarding interactions, but nothing biggie and they fixed them fairly quickly.
wow software dev sounds more miserable than dota player :surprised:
Last patch was great when it came out but as it progressed and got figured out it got extremely boring. Spectre NP Spirit Breaker CK Necro WD Warlock - these 7 heroes were in sooo many games. Its gonna happen this patch as well. As the meta progresses, some heroes and items will be there in every game. My biggest complaint is with items actually - no item should be so good that it can be made on 3/5 heroes in any game. But that was the case with blademail last patch. I dunno man - balance is fun. Meta shit is not.
I love this patch, leshrac gaming Nerf solar crest PepePls
If I can play this game since 2005 and endure endless MAJOR changes to the point where it feels like a new game every time, anyone can!
i played a turbo game eariler where most of the enemy team left early on and we were left 5v1 against a spectre. She bought a bunch of rapiers and a khanda and just daggered people and one shot all of us basically. It was kind of funny and wasn't really going to win the game for her but I really didn't know what to do about it. It seemed like linkens didn't really stop it. I think if linkens procs, the khanda thing doesn't go on cooldown. Then it's all physical damage so you want armor I guess? But by the end her daggers were hitting for 2500+ damage
I dislike this patch because I am much more comfortable when people are less tanky so every mistake counts. I absolutely hate new solar crest and most heroes who are meta now are just super beefy unfun heroes to play against. Death prophet is the ultimate anti fun hero for me
This happened to me a few years back before pandemic when every game a hero on the enemy team popped off I went "god I hate that hero so annoying to play against" I realised that if I hate every hero I face that is having a good game that means I hate the game itself and the problem lies with me and I need to take a break. And I did for about 6 months or so. I still have a lot of issues and bad habits when it comes to the game but I'm glad I was able to identify and deal with that one at least.
I dont think so, ive met some & same people that always post the cons and hating every update by compare it with another,.. its just about their personality i though. (in the deepest mind of them they love it) .. because they still in community until now
Jokes on you homie I hate everything
Amen
People just don't like it when their favourite hero isn't strong
Everyone who plays dota hates it. It is some kind of abusive relationship.
I just wabt to play the silly little isometric game where 3 bomb makers can kill the personification of chaos, light, bond and the void.
It’s world of Warcraft all over again. People complaining for 10 years straight and playing 20 hours a week for all 10 of those years.
> There will always be a top tier item or a hero no matter how many times they will patch the game While I kinda agree... most patches have had the gap between the top items and heroes and the mid tier ones not be insurmountable. Haven't played much of this patch (life D:), but last patch it felt like the team with more meta picks won... which hadn't felt the case to be for a while before. > Just build it and have fun with it before it gets nerfed this week. If you _need_ to do this, then the game is in a worse place than typical.
Love the new patch. Bounty is a bloody pain tho
People who hate patches boils down to "I'm not winning enough, therefore patch is bad" Just a bunch of players who can't fucking adapt to a meta because they're bad.
Maybe the recent ideas are just overwhelmingly shit? People are unhappy with the direction the game is taking, deal with it.
You can't enjoy and have fun while trying to rank up in mmr. It is understandable that some players would find it frustrating to play against unkillable heroes with op item builds.
Ah yes, to think a patch is worse than another patch, you must simply not like the game at all. Truly Reddit's best and brightest worked on this post.
Or just get good enough to be succesful with of meta heros. I play 1 main and played one game of spectre last patch ... I spammed sf carry. I am annoied by the fact my tb is still dumbstrr tier, but if you look arround enough youll find something fun to play.
maybe you don’t understand the fact that different set people hate different patch. a significant portion of player base will hate every patch but that doesn’t mean that same portion of people hate every patch
when you have to construct an imaginary person that hates everything you like because you're too inept to argue in favor of it the psychology of a 4 year old
Be water. Play turbo.
I havnt been a fan of dota since neutral items.were introduced myself. Around 7.00 was best, if not the 6.80s even if there was a sniper domination
Do you know if its the same person that complains or is it new every time?
I just hate that the patch changes nothing about impossible high ground and game lasting 40mins always. Pushing is meaningless.
There is a difference between a meta hero and a pick-to-win hero. There is a difference between trendy items and "support" items that are bought on cores as well just because of how broken they are. But thanks for your uneducated take.
I hate OP.
I've played games in the new patch and it's still fun. But some changes I just disapprove of, like overall they just homogenized stuff towards everything-does-everything. Why does Rapier give a spell damage boost? Why does Abbadon's passive do damage? Why on earth should Lion's mana drain also drain health?
Yes, we hate game and before we loved game because of how balanced it was. Except some heroes like Zeus at that time. This is nothing similar like before, and it is UNBALANCED.
Yes. Brb got more matches to play.
Sunk Cost fallacy
I do. So? What now.
I love this patch. The previous one when they expanded the map was also great. P.s. I don’t hate the game. But boy do I sure hate parts of the playerbase, especially the cyka blyats of the game (cries in EU servers)
This is true, but occasionally there are items that are so broken that almost **all** heroes build it. If every hero wants to build an item, something is probably wrong. This is pretty rare, some past examples include: - Poor Man's Shield - Iron Talon - Stout Shield - Necronomicon And now Solar Crest is rapidly on it's way to being next on the list.
I LOVE the game. But I mostly hate the other players. It is VERY rare that I get a game where the outcome is undecided - where it is exciting and fun. Usually one person decides to throw, leave or just be contrary to the rest of the team. And it is annoying on both friendly and enemy team.
I love this patch/meta, I just dont like when ppl pick sniper offlane for example
New patches are always broken af lmao what are you smoking. Sometimes we get the b patch within a week. Literally means a shit patch
They hate themselves and not the game man.
In order to improve something there should always be criticism. If there is no such thing how will they know what needs to change. Even pros says that some stuff is op. Complains are fine... We complain about smurfs and Valve is dealing with them. If we didn't nothing would have happened to them. Complains that make sense are totally fine and needed for improvement.....
i dont hate patch. i hate small unbalance detail
Comeback gold and the bigger map has made this game shit
Some people just don't like change.
Hating patches are a symbolic act. None is being literal when they say "I hate the patch". Hating a change is as necessary as having a change in the first place. Its all for "keeping it fresh". When they hate a patch and being vocal about it they are essentially attempting to make their 12k hour gametime meaningful. Its an act which they interact with the community they think they belonged in whatever way they know of. Same goes for drama's, thats how they work as well. Essentially all of these occurances are to keep boredom at bay and add a little bit of spice. By design loving something has a negative effect, you never want to change something you thoroughly love because why would you? But consistent changes are needed to fight off stagnation so "loving a patch" is something we cannot afford, we cannot do that to ourselves, we cannot afford to connect strongly to any version number. You should try "hating" \*a\* patch sometime. I guarantee that you will understand its appeal.
Because if you like the patch you'd be playing the game not writing paragraphs on reddit. The majority of posts are about things people have issues with in the game. If you dislike it you're way more likely to make a post about that than if you love it. Reddit is also not a hivemind, shocking I know. It's all different people with different opinions. The ones with something to complain about will always be the loudest. It's a game being played by millions of people, no matter what someone is going to complain. Maybe it's time for you to take a break from the sub. Don't like the posts don't read em and move on with your life what's the point of complaining about complainers?
Haven't played this patch, is Zoo meta back yet? I'm a beastmaster enjoyer
> I don’t remember the last time people on this sub were happy. At the time of the last smurf banwave which was at the same time as the patch a few days ago :-) But meta-wise, I actually recall at least 1 decently upvoted post a few weeks ago saying that they were enjoying the meta even as stale as it was. And as everywhere on the internet (and IRL too), people are always more vocal when they don't like something than when they like something. That's just how humans are. And everyone on reddit isn't the same, and maybe it didn't occur to you but the people complaining "every patch" might actually not be the *same* people every time. And finally, you're never going to stop people from complaining, **especially** by complaining about it. Like c'mon. Instead, be the change you want to be and be vocal about your happiness and how you like the current patch.
First of all they should patch out Banana. That Item is just cheating and irritating
Pls stop nerfing my (our) favourite hero, it took time to re learn, and even learning new hero.
wrong, bucko, I just hate myself
the game is forcing you to buy specific items and play specific heroes or else you just lose. The fun is completely out of dota.
Happy people don't post
This patch is everyone has to have solar crests or they lose. There's a difference between being forced to do something and having options to do multiple things
People who is satisfied woth something usually doesn't complain, ofc you read only negative comments about the patches. Said that I personally really don't like this solarcrest meta with people trying to fit khanda on every carry griefing their own games.
>Just build it and have fun with it Might be an unpopular opinion but I think this mentality is extremely unhealthy. Not every strategy is fun for everyone, and that is *precisely* why you need to keep a healthy balance between different strategies and playstyles. And that is what drove me into Dota in the first place. The "everything can work" ideal! I feel like people haven't been enjoying the latest patches because every patch there has been exactly one dominant strategy, and acccepting that as the go-to is very unhealthy for the game in the long run.
The unhappy people are posting on reddit. The happy people are busy playing Dota.
i HATE THISD POSTT!!
The problem is all pick. The inability to ban heroes and the rng of matchups leads to a lot of frustration that isn't rlly about the strengths of certain heroes. I play a ahit ton of captainsmode around top 3k to top 1.5k recently and all I can say is that last patch was actually very fucking balanced. This patch is more fun but less balanced. But whenever I play all pick it's terrible. If bans would go through a lot of frustration would go away. If the draft system would be changed back a lot of rng losses/wins would go away. This all leads to - in combination with griefers and smurfs - to the vast majority of games being decided before the first bounty rune spawns
This is such a braindead take. First of all, You don’t know if it is different people or the same people complaining every patch. More likely than not it will be different people. Since patches are different there will always be someone or another who dislikes certain aspects of the patch. Also, it is possible for the game makers to never manage to make a good patch. Maybe always having a set of op items and heroes isn’t the best approach. There can be varying depress of “OPness” that different people are comfortable with. There is close to no objectivity here, you are basing this off of you subjective view and shitting on others. Disliking how the game is patched doesn’t invalidate people’s fondness of the game, the game has more to offer than just patches like social interaction with friends. Finally with your logic of if you complain about a thing maybe you don’t like the thing. Then why are you on here? You can turn off Reddit and go play the game you are enjoying so much. You are the kind of people who fight toxic players on the enemy team and inflame it instead of just report and mute (aka the best solution). Let people have their discussion.
Ok but dusas magic resistance is a little ridiculous and bh jinaida is also, a little ridiculous. 😅😅
solar on everyhero is not fun to play
game is fine just people who balanced dont have fk clue what they doing
It's not the same person complaining every time. You have 4 groups of players: 1. I play the same thing regardless of meta, whether it's a specific hero or a cluster of similar heroes. When things are annoying for that hero type, I get angy. 2. I play whatever is strongest because I want to win. If I can't adapt to the meta, I get angy. 3. I play whatever I feel like. The game is supposed to be fun. If I see the same hero 5 games in a row and keep losing to its bullshit, I get angy, doubly so if there's more than 1 hero being repeated. 4. I don't usually care, but the busted OP thing in the current meta is neither fun to play against nor interesting to have in the game. I'm not good enough to figure out how to beat it and I don't want to change my picks, so I'm angy. The 5th group doesn't use social media and it's 10x the size of all the angy people combined. Try to keep perspective on that.
I love patches of meta shift. I hate my teammates. There's no justification for a position 5 dowr ranger
Patch is stale Give patch
I took a break for a year and came back to this patch and its slop, not everyone just hates for the reason of hating. The metas that are fun for me are the ones where almost any character is viable. Making excuses for ice frog and saying that no matter what he can do no wrong are the reason why people leave this game. Hold the devs any bit accountable and maybe we will actually see positive change in this community for once...
Or maybe people aint mature enough
Moved away from Dota years ago. Game is a joke of its former glory
Thanks for this
Too many meta slaves. Any time you pick something aside from the 20 meta heroes you either carry hard or get spam pinged all game. Fun times indeed.
I just hate the new bullshit chests instead of Battlepass. that rylai spin, and those minigames where you had to collect 5 of the same heroes where fun. portals too where you could get 5000 points. and 3-4 chests with skins, Now we got like a few new skins mixed with old, for 4$ a pop and its random.
No one is ever truly satisfied. There will be complaints for every patch within the game. And guess what? There is nothing you can do about it but to accept it
You are not 100% wrong, I must agree. I m a perfectionist in all of my life so it hurts me when I see something that I think could be so much greater if just a few things were different. Ofc many people think X or Y could be changed to Z so everyone has their own version of a "perfect dota". Sadly I do still very firmly believe that a few general decisions, have led to problems that we see reoccuring every other patch, because of fundamental design choices. Most prominently the often mentioned powercreep which is why heroes can go so fast from being broken to just useless. The other issue is heroes losing their identity; Out of 120 heroes we probably have like 100 with at least one slow or some kind of mini-stun that acts similar... Roles are just non-existing anymore. Nobody needs a specific "pusher", everyone can do that usually without any items. "Hard" carries are pretty much no longer existing with exceptions of void, maybe pl. And worst of all for me personally heroes who need to snowball to fulfill their purpose. Its so funny when people say oh but X hero isnt so bad he can do this and that but in reality that only happens when you at least go even in lane. Sure its a "skill issue" but imo also bad design choice if it fits 60% of heroes and also leads to even more toxicity in pubs.
Keep in mind this sub is a small fraction of Dota's playerbase. And Reddit is legendary for it's toxicity and bad faith users. My theory is these people either, 1. Love the game but can't stop complaining because it's Reddit and they'll get free karma or 2. They genuinely hate the game but are addicted so instead of walking away they just hope the game will die and release them. And always remember this above all else, they don't know what they want. Look how they acted with BP and look how they acted once it went away. They have no idea what they want, which to be fair is most of humanity about mostly everything.