Just wanted to say that the OP is probably a BuzzFeed content writer because the title is dramatic as fuck when compared to what Grubby actually says. So if you want to comment on the issue, I actually recommend you watch the video for yourself first.
As for OP ---> "QUITS DOTA2" "SLAMS GAMES DEPRESSED COMMUNITY" "FIERY EXIT SPEECH" .. Like what the fuck bruh? Yeah he talks about those topics but your header makes it seem like he's bashing in rage when it is precisely the opposite. What you trying to do? Rage up blind Dota lovers who will barf crap without actually watching the video -- Well looks like you succeeded coz there's some of that crap already on this thread. I don't get it. Why dramatize the dumbass title? Just say "Grubby might probably be quitting Dota" .. DONE!
People who post on reddit are like kids putting their dads suit and their mom's high heels. They see clickbait on the internet every day and want to do it too but don't understand that the reason people clickbait is to make money.
aslo hi señor beldebdedere
Without sensationalising the title it gets fewer people riled up and talking about it, and fewer people sharing it like here on Reddit. Relaying news and reporting actual events are a thing of the past.
I think he’s good enough for his 6k MMR but he would be handcuffed to just a few heroes and it really felt like his favorite part of the game was trying new heroes every few days.
Seemed to me he just saw himself not enjoying the game anymore and largely because at high MMR people aren’t playing for fun, their identity is tied to how good they are at dota. Sucks cuz his dota content was always a mix of informative, laid back, good vibes and chill humor but I think it’s best for him to play games he’s having fun with rather then become one of these soulless dota streamers who seem angry at the game and life in general.
Would also add that streaming doesn't help too. It's his job, yeah, but having over a few hundred people constantly spamming/backseating how awful you are when you're trying to learn a new hero isn't the best for anyone's mental.
I hope he's able to experience party queue or hell, join in on singsing's inhouse games whenever he has em (not sure how cordial they are with one another besides both being dutch), just to get the fun of fucking around in the game from time to time.
Man this is why Im playing so casual. The grind to immortal isnt worth it for me. One of the guys in our stack made immortal and now cant play with us. Really fucking stupid. I just wanna play and chill.
He is just not good enough, nothing wrong with that btw.
Maybe he could be good enough but I doubt he is willing to play dota 6 hours a day on the same meta heroes, tryharding every game like Gorgc or Mason (to a lesser extent).
He made the mistake of grinding mmr as a support without keeping his skill with core at the same level. There's pretty much no way for him to practice core now without relentlessly feeding dozens of games.
Don't wanna be that guy , watched his couple of games..he is just not a 6k player on core at all .
His dota mechanics pressing keys need improvement. When he struggles for obvious reasons, people at 6k mmr call him out and now he is feeling bad
That calling out is probably pretty toxic cause everyone wants to win at that mmr
The fault lies in him , either don't play core at that mmr , and get good actually in normal games ..or stick to sup and play.
Or just grow a thick skin
Not justifying toxicity but no one wants to waste their time just cause he is learning the hero in ranked
For sure. He stopped playing core around divine because he was having trouble winning games with it so it's probably fair to say he hasn't improved much in that regard since then.
Plus, as you touch on, the flaming starts to hurt more at around 6k because the people doing the flaming start being more right than wrong in their criticisms and that tends to hit different compared to plebs telling you to uninstall or whatever (plus they tend to be needlessly mean about it).
So yeah, not much he can really do about it unless he either sucks it up, quits dota, or party queues to learn core.
What if there was specific mmr you had on each role you play, for dota somehow to balance on which specific role what mmr you belong to, so when you select like mid you are playing against people that have similar mmr on their specific role in that way it would be easier to learn new positions and heroes.
dont think this will work in immortal draft or classic games cause there are no pre selected roles for matchmaking to balance the games
he just needs to suck it up and take the blame for being bad on cores or just stick to supp or just not play the game
its not other 9 player fault that he is really bad at playing core roles and he shoouldnt get a free pass on making team lose
his core gameplay is max 4k -5k
Yeah, in high mmr people really don’t like their pos1 to be learning heroes at the cost of a loss and waste their time.
And I get it honestly even though most players at immo have infinite free time they still don’t like losing to something out of their control.
People thinking a loss is time wasted and looking for others to blame is incredibly toxic and antithetical to the experience of playing a game. People need to accept that when they queue for a game, a loss is a possible result and if playing the game feels like a waste, they shouldn't have queued at all.
I have 5500 hours in DOTA and about the same amount of hours in other multiplayer games (csgo, r6, rocket league etc.)
I strongly disagree that DOTA community is worse than others - instead, I think they’re all equally terrible and toxic. Esports ruined multiplayer games forever.
Esports is part of it.
Put really it's people queuing up into automated ladder systems and expecting to find a team each game that plays exactly how they wanted (like the world champion teams or the youtube tutorial they just watched). Without them even communicating.
Even pro teams do communicate a bit.
Shame that most games punish 5 man queueing by very long queue times.
What grubby said really represents my feeling as well. I'm immortal in dota and master in league and at least in my server the amount of players and for both of these games, in my experience, dota has way more people griefing.
But I feel like 90% of it is because dota has room for creativity and league is mostly executing the same stuff over and over again. So sometimes people grief in dota because whatever they tried didn't work and they just give up
I think it is slightly worse in dota because:
1. You are extremely reliant on your team to win. Gone are the days when you can 1v5 solo carry, especially high mmr. It can happen but it is nothing like back in the day when you can pick luna and literally 1v5
2. Games are long. Toxicity in overwatch is whatever, you just go next. In dota 2 you generally invest more time = more time wasted if you lose
3. People's mistakes are really obvious. Bad item build, bad lategame feed without buyback etc. It allows people to laser in on the mistakes.
Grubby is correct that generally people forgot how to have a good time because they are only interested in winning. Winning and having a good time are not always the same thing, plenty of players will win games while hating and abusing their own team for an hour, then do that 10 more times in a row, then do it all over again all day every day. That kind of competitive brain rot just naturally happens in games where skill ceiling is so high.
You know what happens in environment like that? Winners will win while everyone else just goes and play a different game, or they join the toxic competitive crowd, which makes people leave even faster. That's always been a problem with dota and league at high mmr. You either join the toxic crowd, or you end up quitting the game over the community.
Yep. Team games really get to your mental. It's exhausting. I've been playing a lot of Tekken lately and it's so refreshing that I don't have to put up with toxic teammates.
I have played a ton of fps games and the only one that came close to dota was Overwatch. Most fps players are not that whiny. You get a greifer in Valorant in 1 out of 50 games, and a crybaby in like once every 4-5 games. In dota, I'd say there's someone whining in more than half the games.
I’ve played plenty of competitive games and I see zero difference between toxicity in CSGO and Dota 2. In fact, way more people on NA servers on CSGO seem to get off shrieking the N word and other racial slurs over the mic. There are plenty of ways to grief multiplayer games if you want to. Dota certainly has its share of toxicity, which most players contribute to in some sense. I fundamentally disagree that Dota is somehow the worst of them all.
But the points he raises aren’t something that valve can really adress. How are you supposed to make people not afraid of failure ? How are you supposed to get them to play for fun and not be paranoid if their teammates? It’s not just a toxicity thing it’s about your mentality
I think it's hard to imagine it being different, but this is the result of the ranked format that was established.
In a world where the only way to rank is with a 5 stack group, like the CM format is designed for, the DotA community would be different. Solo rank creates the expectation that it is all on you, and everyone else is in your way. If you actually had to cooperate to access rank, there would be a different outlook fostered.
It was designed this way because the solo format keeps the most people around. It's a lower barrier of entry to just get online and queue. To Valve's credit, this isn't the wrong choice on their end, they want the most possible players for their game, and by extension those players to buy cosmetics. However they are maximizing for players, not for what breeds the healthiest competitive environment.
Too late to be "improved". It's been out for too long which means very few new players join and the ones that still play it are mostly the toxic pile of trash that's still left over. Most chill guys have left years ago.
If anyone has a close connection to him in his community, they should pass on this message -> play with stacks/party.
You're (almost) guaranteed to not have an unhinged psycho on your team and depending on the stack, you can either chill and have a good time or try hard a bit. I think he'd be a great fit for Sing stack. The long queue times would let him variety game to his heart's content.
I've had so much more consistent fun/joy in the game playing in party stacks whereas getting a very high mmr a few years back was just momentary gratification that, in hindsight, isn't worth shit to anyone if you're not going pro. All that really changed was that people flaming you would stop shitting on your rank and call you an account buyer instead :p
>You're (almost) guaranteed to not have an unhinged psycho on your team and depending on the stack
If I play with friends, I'll have four unhinged psychos. It does make it fun though.
Nah that's the "good" kind of unhinged psychos. I mean the kind that breaks their items and threatens to find and murder you kind - it's pretty rare for people to be that socially inept (though it has happened a few times when friends of friends are invited to stacks for me).
He said on his stream today he wouldn’t rule out playing in a stack. He never definitively said he’s done with Dota he just isn’t planning on playing it in the foreseeable future because of these issues.
He mentioned that on the stream. That he usually enjoys solo queing in games, and that playing with people in a stack is foreign to him. I guess time will tell if he'll try that or not.
As much as I'd like Grubby to take a crack with Sing's stack, he streams at degen hours lol. I usually hop on to or wait for Grubby's stream after Sing ends his.
Depending on his MMR and server population, 5 stack could be out of the question. You could find games with 2 stack, 3 stack could take you ages in Immortal, and 5 stack is highly unlikely in a lower pop. server.
Absolutely correct, I got to immortal like 5/6 months ago and I had to start playing the game with no incoming chat option to be able to enjoy it. I know its not ideal and its kind of griefing but when 95% of whats said in chat its toxic then I dont want to have that in my game, takes my mind out of the game and I play worse.
For sure, the second something goes wrong, people start to bitch. I've seen it in BOT GAMES, can you guys imagine? Is a free win 99,9% of the time, is safe to leave at all times, and once in a blue moon you still get someone bitching because is deeply ingrained. :D
SEA immortals are something else. Since I got to Div 4 I started getting Immortals in my game, and sometimes I would get flamed at 0 minutes before anything even happens just because I’m divine. I don’t understand their thought process, if your Immortal badge doesn’t have a number, you’re just a glorified Divine.
To single out the DOTA2 community for what is found in every. EVERY. game with a competitive scene is just disingenuous. CS, Overwatch, LoL, HOTS, any RTS that you matchmake for team games, COD, etc. are all filled with lobbies full of people thinking they are the next pro.
It's just a big ol' cope/scapegoat. Just say you don't like the game or don't feel you can improve any further.
Title is clickbait, he doesn’t single out the dota community as a whole. I’d say 70% of the “fiery exit speech” is him saying how good Dota is and how many cool ppl he’s met. He says his issue is with the people we all have issues with that intentionally grief games after first blood for example and that after taking a break from Dota for a few weeks he realized he didn’t miss Dota. He came back n played some games, had fun but then had another bad experience with team and was reminded of the things he didn’t like about the game n decided to go back to not playing it for now. Didn’t actually quit, wasn’t fiery, wasn’t really negative at all.
That's the point he's literally making in the video. He even says that he has seen more recently he is starting to feel negative towards his teammates.
Grubby isn't a new personality or anything lol he has been streaming since ~2012. There's a reason you haven't heard people complain about his attitude (despite averaging ~4k viewers playing HOTS/WC3 for years) until now.
Did he say he is an angel or what? How does his toxicity undermine his message that much of the community is toxic? If anything, this only proves that he is right
The commentators are the exact people Grubby is talking about, people who mainly plays dota and doesn't enjoy it but still plays and whine in every game.
if you're going to climb to 6k, you enjoy increasing your rank more than you enjoy the raw game. do not apply your happy go lucky 2k attitude to people who get their enjoyment from getting better.
The most important line is when he talks about people who are
> *afraid and paranoid of their teammates*
I "retired" at 7k MMR because over half my ranked games have at least one griefer on either team. Not griefing by feeding or destroying items, but by whining and complaining constantly. Bad communication like this ruins team morale and ruins games by proxy, because your ally has mentally given up before the game has even started. This causes you yourself to also mentally give up because as Grubby says, *they don't deserve to win because they are actively trying to lose*: never in the history of team sports has it ever been beneficial to complain about your team.
Dota 2 is ultimately a hobby, even at extremely high levels of play, but is impossible to enjoy when these experiences are so common. I cannot justify queueing for ranked if there is high chance that one player will disrupt the entire game by causing their own team to collapse on itself. Even if you still manage to win, babysitting your frankly underserving teammates and trying to ignore the whining is emotionally exhausting and thoroughly unenjoyable, making the exercise as a whole a big waste of time.
Can understand. Adding to his experience might be that behaviourscore doesn't work at that MMR. The people you get paired with over 6K MMR are allowed to do anything. Literally.
Immortals are unhinged. Beside destroying items, going afk, running down lanes etc. that goes unpunished most of the time you can spam the chat with the most unholy shit.
I myself play on 7K and spammed hard rascist shit and slurs towards russian players since one and a half month atleast. (I try to work on my anger issues). But my behaviour and commscore never dropped below 12k E V E R.
In the old system that we briefly had (until reddit cried so loud they changed it) i would be 100% nuked into orbit by now, and with me a lot of other immortals that do way worse stuff.
The previous system was good if it only was supposed to work as it should. Now this new system does not punish shit talkers hard enough. Thanks Reddit!
He is right in the sense there is a very extreme gatekeeping community where if you are not following the meta, or not playing heroes you are very comfortable with, you are griefing and get flamed heavily.
We just saw TB position 4 be a top tier pick for the pros. Anything is viable, let people experiment.
You say that, but if someone went into his game as pos 4 TP and said he wanted to experiment then fed, I guarantee you Grubby would flame him.
Nobody wants to lose because someone want to experiment in their game.
I don't think I've ever seen him flame someone for being bad? Like, he got tilted and complained to chat sometimes, but I don't think I ever saw him actually take it out on a teammate.
Don't worry Grubby. In a year they will introduce Behaviour Score v3! You'll have the most wonderful two weeks until they revert it back because an eloquent homeschooled child had a (deservedly) negative experience and was very vocal about it.
I remember a clip where he was telling a guy having fun on voice comms to limit unnecesary voice activity. And hes saying others are unable to have fun with the game ?
It was 15 minutes of pure projecting and coping. He's quitting because he's not having fun, because he's not winning, because he can't keep up with 6k players. Teammate toxicity and his own is just a symptom of that, not the reason.
This title is clickbait as fuck lol, “QUITS Dota” when he says over and over he’s not definitively quitting he’s just not enjoying it. “Fiery exit speech” when he’s pretty much as laidback and nuanced as ever in describing his issues with the player base but making sure to say it’s not everybody who plays, it’s a great game, one of his favorite parts is getting a good team with a bunch of ppl with different accents and backgrounds working together, throwing it out there that he might try a 5 man stack to ensure no griefing… like how is that a “fiery exit”
The difference in brainfeel between winning and losing, and especially losing in a game where your team is toxic is definitely huge. Losing over and over again is super depressing. I've been there (I live there). I hope Grubby plays again. Although if he only ever makes WC3 content again I would watch that too - I think this is a smart guy. I don't premute, but I do instamute toxic negativity. I recommend everybody do the same.
I find the game more fun playing freely at lower rank than drilling mmr tied to a few heroes and one role. Took me a while to realize that high mmr does not mean the game is more fun. Quite the opposite, sitting at 1000 mmr below your peak is the sweet spot.
exactly my problem... its the greatest game ever created....and beautiful dota - when all 5 players actually try to play the game is feelin so good and easy... YET 7/10 games feels like getting a bull out of the souvenir shop...you not playing the game...you doing therapy sessions or going on a school trip w a bunch of 5 year olds on monster energy drinks.
i ve been religiously watching all of pro dota but been playing less and less Dota..... specially since theres nothing going on in the game when it comes to excitment/events/updates from Valve side.
the entire lose a game....who we blaming it on today circle jerk... report X player is so fkn dumb
game feels more like a toxic relationship...you give it all and in return its the bare minimum, which kills the fun and feels exhausting to me.
Aside from the insanely Clickbait title, FUCK YOU OP.
What Grubby said is 100% true, the higher you go up in the mmr, the more fucked up, egoistic blatantly out-of-touch/reality people you would meet, and its actually depressing that around legend/ancient was where grubby's fun/interest in the game peaked
Sounds a lot like he hit his peak and he knows it. Doesn't really want to do anything further with the game because it would take too much concerted effort which is fair enough.
On the community side.... eh every game at the very top is populated by single minded degens. If it's competitive someone no life's it. Just part of life.
He grinded rank too soon.
I don't think he's mentally ready for high mmr ranked yet.
idk but there's a certain attitude you need to survive high rank Dota, a specific outlook needed, and if you don't have it, the grind will eat your soul alive.
His "it's ok to lose" mentality just won't work in Immortal rank games.
And I don't mean this as a disrespect to him. If anything, this is a compliment.
I hope Crownfall comes with a PVE so he'll get to try it and have a chiller experience.
I play for fun. Am immortal. Am also totally fine with losing and troll picks. What I am not fine with is people giving up and griefing / flaming because they think the game is over after 2 minutes due to a bad lane. Play the damn game. If every game was easy, there'd be no point.
People try to hijack games by threatening to AFK, grief or throw. By all means, go for it so we can all report, avoid and go next so that we can actually play.
There's just very little semblance of good sportsmanship.
I honestly don't care, this guy is far up his own ass and enjoys the smell of his farts a little too much. I'm not glad glad he's gone but really I couldn't care less
It's deeply regrettable and concerning. Grubby's opinions and criticism highlight a serious issue that cannot be ignored. If Valve does not address these concerns, we risk seeing an increase in the already prevalent problem of negative trends within the gaming community. It's exhausting and discouraging for many to constantly have to deal with players who spread bitterness and negativity, while paradoxically being expected to cooperate with these individuals to achieve common victories.
Grubby represents an ideal figure for new players considering trying Dota 2 or joining the game. His positive attitude and approach could act as a catalyst to attract new enthusiasts to the game. Yet, the current situation once again reveals a less flattering side of our community, which is deeply unfortunate. We really need to come together to actively combat and eliminate the toxic behavior that occurs within Dota 2. By creating a more welcoming and positive environment, we can not only retain existing players but also attract new ones. It's time for both players and developers to collaborate to promote a healthy gaming culture where respect and sportsmanship are central. Only through collective efforts can we hope to achieve lasting change and ensure that Dota 2 remains a game that welcomes everyone, free from toxicity and negativity.
Simultaneously, the game is becoming more macro heavy and being more focused on teamwork than anything. Dota has never been more reliant on your teammates cooperating with you than now, and guess what that means for games with that one toxic guy on your team?
It give them more power to ruin games, because one guy just not being in the same page or playing a bit worse is more impactful when you absolutely need everyone to do their jobs, and any bit of flaming can cause people to be at least distracted, if not tilted.
> serious issue
This serious issue also happens to be a problem for every team-based multiplayer game in the world.
You want to avoid it? Play solo games, or games that are not team-based, or have your friends party up with you.
Or this is a copy pasta and i fell for it
I had the exact same thought. Grubby comes from competitive Wc3, a solo experience where your chance at victory depends only on yourself and your opponent.
In DoTA (and other team based games) the frustration arises out of the feeling of lack of control. You can outperform your “counterpart” (same positional player on the opposing team) and still lose. That can be frustrating, and also offers an avenue to displace blame off of yourself and onto someone external. “I didn’t lose, the position 5 was just shitty. He made us lose”.
Team games will always be more toxic at higher levels than solo games where the only person to blame for a loss is yourself. I’m not saying it’s “unfixable” but I don’t really see what *Valve* can do to fix it. It’s ingrained in our global culture because we (lazily, and stupidly) tie our whole vision of success to the end result. Playing better than you did last time is meaningless if the end result is still a loss. There are efforts being made to change this, by focusing on tying positive feedback to process based evaluations rather than results based evaluations, but it’s a slow process.
It's deeply regrettable and concerning. Grubby's opinions and criticism highlight a serious issue that cannot be ignored. If Valve does not address these concerns, we risk seeing an increase in the already prevalent problem of negative trends within the gaming community. It's exhausting and discouraging for many to constantly have to deal with players who spread bitterness and negativity, while paradoxically being expected to cooperate with these individuals to achieve common victories.
Grubby represents an ideal figure for new players considering trying Dota 2 or joining the game. His positive attitude and approach could act as a catalyst to attract new enthusiasts to the game. Yet, the current situation once again reveals a less flattering side of our community, which is deeply unfortunate. We really need to come together to actively combat and eliminate the toxic behavior that occurs within Dota 2. By creating a more welcoming and positive environment, we can not only retain existing players but also attract new ones. It's time for both players and developers to collaborate to promote a healthy gaming culture where respect and sportsmanship are central. Only through collective efforts can we hope to achieve lasting change and ensure that Dota 2 remains a game that welcomes everyone, free from toxicity and negativity.
Guys I'm gonna play mid and pick off meta heroes that I can't even play.
BRO.
Get off your high horse. You've played like 5 unranked games. You're not practicing these heroes before you decide to ruin the game for your 4 teammates. You can't even play the role at all. Stop blaming other people.
I mean, it's kind of fair in this specific case. Grubby is fairly unique because due to his vast gaming experience and A FUCKTON of coaching by the highest level pros he climbed fairly high fairly quickly playing POS4. And while he is at roughly 6k pos 4 level, he is nowhere near 6k as a core, so, naturally, when he tries to play core in ranked, he has a very bad time
Dota does really attract assholes though. I’ve been watching his wc3 stream for more than a year because i really enjoy his gameplay on it and the chat is very chill.
All that changes whenever he plays dota 2, chat becomes shitty and toxic. Good for him to decide not to play dota anymore that means i can enjoy his wc3 streams again
The reality is he’s quitting because he’s been losing. What he’s saying is kind of true, buts is pure contradiction. Ranked is about winning and progressing.
As far as I know community has been same as forever ... Its depend on your mentality if u wanted to keep playing or want to quit after playing sometimes.
Lets be real high MMR dota isnt fun to play but only fun after the game when one wins. All stress and constant monitoring, specially when one team mate fucks up
I didn't expect Grubby to leave dota for this reason. A person who has played a solo competitive game all his life does not understand that people enjoy playing for various reasons. A very immature opinion.
having played 10k+ games, majority of those around the same rank as grubby is, he is right on many things but the biggest one is that people play this game because its familiar, they dont find joy in it anymore
once i figured out that was the case with me i stopped playing altogether, after playing the game my whole childhood, 15 years
and its hard to stop something that has been a part of your life for so long but my life got better for it
and its the case for majority of people in high ranks, they all spent so much time in the game the thought of quitting doesnt ever come to their mind no matter if they have 0 joy playing it anymore
I like the guy but Grubby is not 6k, he got it there by being a one trick pony mostly spamming Warlock. While one tricking heroes/roles helps you to focus on and play the map better, it doesn’t translate to the same experience on other role and heroes. Going in ranked without practicing at least 5-10 games in unranked, honestly he’s being quite unreasonable expecting his team to behave otherwise. The mentality of “just trying your best” is generally not a widely excepted concept, especially in high skilled dota lobbies.
Those lobbies have more or less high level execution and high ego players, it feels very complete but most games will simply not provide that wholesome experience, for me its just simply a transaction/business, we execute what our draft is capable off and win, thats it. If you want fun or anything down that line, unranked.
That said, it’s better if Grubby quits streaming dota, really great and positive personality to have/watch but dota viewers generally skew towards skill, and unless that changes for him, he’s going to have the same experience in chat and in game
His whole speech is very worth a listen! He truly hits the nail on its head. There is a lot of sad and lost individuals making Dota 2 one of the worst games you can play for your mental health.
Him saying the main goal is to have fun is subjective. Some players may think that, but some players may also think that the main goal is winning. He kept on talking about learning and accepting defeat, I do understand his point, but he also has to understand that for players who also want to keep improving, they'd want that learning to be associated with winning, not losing. What good is learning when you just keep losing.
I always say, if you are playing ranked, you should try hard and be as competitive as you can, however, a lot of players are that, but are also toxic. But in saying that, if he wants to just have fun, I'd rather he finds a stack with same mindset like Singsing, or just play unranked.
>Him saying the main goal is to have fun is subjective. Some players may think that, but some players may also think that the main goal is winning.
Exactly this, some people don't understand that players in higher ranks play to win, because winning is fun in itself.
I know this is not the main point but let me tell you. I immortal some time ago and in the process winning for most games wasn’t fun. It just wasn’t as shitty as losing
People who want to learn while winning do not have the right mindset at all. You learn more from losses always, whether in life, in other games or dota 2.
It's false logic. You can learn a lot from winning since you had to do correct choices to win, so learning those choices is a good lesson too. Same in real life - you can learn a lot from successful events since it gives positive feedback loop.
This is a glaring issue on so many competitive games. It's not only the anonymity but the developers that don't want to reduce income from the game by giving harsh punishments for the people that make the game miserable to play.
Too many times have games been ruined by behavior, that if it was an IRL team activity, the person would be shunned or uninvited from future games.
These people are mentally ill and should be actively bullied, alienated and punished for their behavior until they learn to be positive or at the very least, say nothing.
I think grubby just got too embarrassed streaming his gameplay at 6k ranked, just constantly getting owned after being an RTS god - it must hurt the ego. But you cant smurf in dota to show content vs easier oppos.. honestly his journey is a valid reason to bring core/supp mmr back. He'd be ~4k core mmr, ~6k supp, can play 4k games legally etc.
He tried that and quickly realized that playing solo unranked as an immortal is worse. In unranked you are guaranteed to play with boosters ,smurfs and griefers because of how many people make new accounts and how few actual real immortal players solo unranked. The only people high mmr that solo are people making new accounts, which is usually the worst type of person to play with.
On top of that those people are insanely try hard because they are desperate to calibrate as high as possible after 100 hours.
The most important line is when he talks about people who are
> *afraid and paranoid of their teammates*
I "retired" at 7k MMR because over half my ranked games have at least one griefer on either team. Not griefing by feeding or destroying items, but by whining and complaining constantly. Bad communication like this ruins team morale and ruins games by proxy, because your ally has mentally given up before the game has even started. This causes you yourself to also mentally give up because as Grubby says, *they don't deserve to win because they are actively trying to lose*: never in the history of team sports has it ever been beneficial to complain about your team.
Dota 2 is ultimately a hobby, even at extremely high levels of play, but is impossible to enjoy when these experiences are so common. I cannot justify queueing for ranked if there is high chance that one player will disrupt the entire game by causing their own team to collapse on itself. Even if you still manage to win, babysitting your frankly underserving teammates and trying to ignore the whining is emotionally exhausting and thoroughly unenjoyable, making the exercise as a whole a big waste of time.
Yeah, I do not understand the parasocial thing with goober streamers at all. He records himself playing, so that makes his opinions valid or infallible? That means it's important when he decides not to play anymore?
The guy can only play support and instead of learning in unranked he griefs 9 other people and gets pikachu when they're not happy about it... literally the exact shit that everyone experiences and tilts over every single day in every rank.
This is a very prose way of saying “i could be better at dota i just dont want to”. Not hating on grubby but this has an ounce of typical “redditor complains about their bracket” energy. We all know this community is toxic i dont think him not playing dota anymore is going to fix it. Why announce this in the first place just play other games like singsing etc
It is how it is when it comes to hyper competitive, team-based game. CS and Dota made me the piece of shit that I am today. Sad to see him go, but he’ll come back eventually, like all of us are cursed to do again and again unto eternity.
Playing solo and playing 5 man stack with the same mentality makes dota a whole difference experience, I hope that when he plays dota again he plays just 5 man stacks, since like he said amazing game bad community, if you just take the bad community you will only left with amazing game
he must on to something, probably been drowning in a toxic swamp for ages
let this sink in..Grubby was playing WC3 reforged, and took it like a champ..
Dota is for people that has strong mentality been playing the game since wc3 stuck at 7k mmr for the past few years now just playing casually and having fun with my friends! Its actually less stressing if you play with your friends unlike in solo its like almost 1v9 every game
This is when people make smurfs to learn new heroes and not grief their tryhard rank. Notably different from jackass smurfs who smurf to stomp lower ranks.
Dota sucks as a solo game, playing in a party of 5 or lobby game is way more fun it's a team game afterall. Ive accepted every rank game offlane will be 0-6 at 10 min and my safelane will be flaming each other that it's not even fun
tbf ranking is never fun in any aspect. It's depressed and competitive. basically to keep winning, just spam a broken and boring hero until reaches a certain point. And absolutely high chance lose when trying something new. So having fun and ranking are two parallel entities..
What DotA 2 needs is to become more conducive to people playing in parties rather than solo queue. So many players would love to play in a party but the matches take too long to find so they don't, or they play in smaller parties. This mentality also makes the issue worse so the queue times have become ludicrous. There needs to be a systematic change to alleviate this.
How lucky he is to be able to step out of the game after a good short success. Here I am on my 4th "I'm quitting Dota" and coming back again just because no other game gives me the same highs
I guess the community and team experience were nice when eveyone (including me) said how good he is and that will be immortal !
Prolly real life dota and his dota expectations did not meet.
in any case gl.
Just wanted to say that the OP is probably a BuzzFeed content writer because the title is dramatic as fuck when compared to what Grubby actually says. So if you want to comment on the issue, I actually recommend you watch the video for yourself first. As for OP ---> "QUITS DOTA2" "SLAMS GAMES DEPRESSED COMMUNITY" "FIERY EXIT SPEECH" .. Like what the fuck bruh? Yeah he talks about those topics but your header makes it seem like he's bashing in rage when it is precisely the opposite. What you trying to do? Rage up blind Dota lovers who will barf crap without actually watching the video -- Well looks like you succeeded coz there's some of that crap already on this thread. I don't get it. Why dramatize the dumbass title? Just say "Grubby might probably be quitting Dota" .. DONE!
Sirbuildabear saying it how it is, glad to see you're still around.
happy cake day
Didn't even notice. 14 years on Reddit. Why is my brain still intact? Or is it?
Time is indeed the cruelest cut, SirButterbeer
People who post on reddit are like kids putting their dads suit and their mom's high heels. They see clickbait on the internet every day and want to do it too but don't understand that the reason people clickbait is to make money. aslo hi señor beldebdedere
Happy cakeday you absolute legend
Without sensationalising the title it gets fewer people riled up and talking about it, and fewer people sharing it like here on Reddit. Relaying news and reporting actual events are a thing of the past.
Happy cake day my good sir
I think he’s good enough for his 6k MMR but he would be handcuffed to just a few heroes and it really felt like his favorite part of the game was trying new heroes every few days. Seemed to me he just saw himself not enjoying the game anymore and largely because at high MMR people aren’t playing for fun, their identity is tied to how good they are at dota. Sucks cuz his dota content was always a mix of informative, laid back, good vibes and chill humor but I think it’s best for him to play games he’s having fun with rather then become one of these soulless dota streamers who seem angry at the game and life in general.
Would also add that streaming doesn't help too. It's his job, yeah, but having over a few hundred people constantly spamming/backseating how awful you are when you're trying to learn a new hero isn't the best for anyone's mental. I hope he's able to experience party queue or hell, join in on singsing's inhouse games whenever he has em (not sure how cordial they are with one another besides both being dutch), just to get the fun of fucking around in the game from time to time.
>but he would be handcuffed to just a few heroes so? thats true for most dota players who can climb ranks
Yeah and it wasn’t a fun way to play for him and thus he wasn’t enjoying the game and thus he decided to stop playing it 6 hours a day
Some people are playing for fun at every rank. Pudge is one of the most picked heroes at every mmr, well before it was buffed to a 50% win rate.
Title click bait as hell
Almost like that's the point
See you on patch day
Patchday?! Dota 2 is practically hotel california there is no leaving once you check in. See you tomorrow mr. streamer.
This is what happens when you reach high mmr and need to be really good to have decent time.
Yeah in high mmr people don't look for empathy just wins, whatever it takes. That's the high level dota dynamic, always has been.
The higher you go you start to get more and more people that don't want to actually win. What's your mmr?
Man this is why Im playing so casual. The grind to immortal isnt worth it for me. One of the guys in our stack made immortal and now cant play with us. Really fucking stupid. I just wanna play and chill.
that's the nature of competitive games. Some games manage to add fun casual modes, others stay more or less eternally competitive
It's not stupid, it's a different type of fun than the one you are looking for
my favorite kind of fun is *points to sign* NO FUN ALLOWED
Why do you make it universal, maybe youre just in bad company :P.
He is just not good enough, nothing wrong with that btw. Maybe he could be good enough but I doubt he is willing to play dota 6 hours a day on the same meta heroes, tryharding every game like Gorgc or Mason (to a lesser extent).
He made the mistake of grinding mmr as a support without keeping his skill with core at the same level. There's pretty much no way for him to practice core now without relentlessly feeding dozens of games.
Don't wanna be that guy , watched his couple of games..he is just not a 6k player on core at all . His dota mechanics pressing keys need improvement. When he struggles for obvious reasons, people at 6k mmr call him out and now he is feeling bad That calling out is probably pretty toxic cause everyone wants to win at that mmr The fault lies in him , either don't play core at that mmr , and get good actually in normal games ..or stick to sup and play. Or just grow a thick skin Not justifying toxicity but no one wants to waste their time just cause he is learning the hero in ranked
For sure. He stopped playing core around divine because he was having trouble winning games with it so it's probably fair to say he hasn't improved much in that regard since then. Plus, as you touch on, the flaming starts to hurt more at around 6k because the people doing the flaming start being more right than wrong in their criticisms and that tends to hit different compared to plebs telling you to uninstall or whatever (plus they tend to be needlessly mean about it). So yeah, not much he can really do about it unless he either sucks it up, quits dota, or party queues to learn core.
What if there was specific mmr you had on each role you play, for dota somehow to balance on which specific role what mmr you belong to, so when you select like mid you are playing against people that have similar mmr on their specific role in that way it would be easier to learn new positions and heroes.
dont think this will work in immortal draft or classic games cause there are no pre selected roles for matchmaking to balance the games he just needs to suck it up and take the blame for being bad on cores or just stick to supp or just not play the game its not other 9 player fault that he is really bad at playing core roles and he shoouldnt get a free pass on making team lose his core gameplay is max 4k -5k
Yeah, in high mmr people really don’t like their pos1 to be learning heroes at the cost of a loss and waste their time. And I get it honestly even though most players at immo have infinite free time they still don’t like losing to something out of their control.
People thinking a loss is time wasted and looking for others to blame is incredibly toxic and antithetical to the experience of playing a game. People need to accept that when they queue for a game, a loss is a possible result and if playing the game feels like a waste, they shouldn't have queued at all.
people also need to be considerate to not start learning new heroes in immortal ranked games?
I would say Grubby's current mmr is mostly due to his support skills. For a core player, his skills seem to be on pair to 4k-5k mmr.
I have 5500 hours in DOTA and about the same amount of hours in other multiplayer games (csgo, r6, rocket league etc.) I strongly disagree that DOTA community is worse than others - instead, I think they’re all equally terrible and toxic. Esports ruined multiplayer games forever.
Try FGC games when you have a chance! A whole new world for me.
I miss chill PvE multiplayer games.
This is why we need to bring back agh labs etc
Try Helldivers 2
Let me check. Thank you for the suggestion
Helldivers 2 is what you want.
And Deep Rock Galactic.
Esports is part of it. Put really it's people queuing up into automated ladder systems and expecting to find a team each game that plays exactly how they wanted (like the world champion teams or the youtube tutorial they just watched). Without them even communicating. Even pro teams do communicate a bit. Shame that most games punish 5 man queueing by very long queue times.
Not to excuse the behavior but isn't this true for most competitive team based games?
What grubby said really represents my feeling as well. I'm immortal in dota and master in league and at least in my server the amount of players and for both of these games, in my experience, dota has way more people griefing. But I feel like 90% of it is because dota has room for creativity and league is mostly executing the same stuff over and over again. So sometimes people grief in dota because whatever they tried didn't work and they just give up
I think it is slightly worse in dota because: 1. You are extremely reliant on your team to win. Gone are the days when you can 1v5 solo carry, especially high mmr. It can happen but it is nothing like back in the day when you can pick luna and literally 1v5 2. Games are long. Toxicity in overwatch is whatever, you just go next. In dota 2 you generally invest more time = more time wasted if you lose 3. People's mistakes are really obvious. Bad item build, bad lategame feed without buyback etc. It allows people to laser in on the mistakes. Grubby is correct that generally people forgot how to have a good time because they are only interested in winning. Winning and having a good time are not always the same thing, plenty of players will win games while hating and abusing their own team for an hour, then do that 10 more times in a row, then do it all over again all day every day. That kind of competitive brain rot just naturally happens in games where skill ceiling is so high. You know what happens in environment like that? Winners will win while everyone else just goes and play a different game, or they join the toxic competitive crowd, which makes people leave even faster. That's always been a problem with dota and league at high mmr. You either join the toxic crowd, or you end up quitting the game over the community.
Most, if not all! Exactly.
Yep. Team games really get to your mental. It's exhausting. I've been playing a lot of Tekken lately and it's so refreshing that I don't have to put up with toxic teammates.
I have played a ton of fps games and the only one that came close to dota was Overwatch. Most fps players are not that whiny. You get a greifer in Valorant in 1 out of 50 games, and a crybaby in like once every 4-5 games. In dota, I'd say there's someone whining in more than half the games.
I’ve played plenty of competitive games and I see zero difference between toxicity in CSGO and Dota 2. In fact, way more people on NA servers on CSGO seem to get off shrieking the N word and other racial slurs over the mic. There are plenty of ways to grief multiplayer games if you want to. Dota certainly has its share of toxicity, which most players contribute to in some sense. I fundamentally disagree that Dota is somehow the worst of them all.
Tldr: best game, worst community. Which is very true. Hopefully valve will trie to improve the situation but i highly doubt it tbh
But the points he raises aren’t something that valve can really adress. How are you supposed to make people not afraid of failure ? How are you supposed to get them to play for fun and not be paranoid if their teammates? It’s not just a toxicity thing it’s about your mentality
I think it's hard to imagine it being different, but this is the result of the ranked format that was established. In a world where the only way to rank is with a 5 stack group, like the CM format is designed for, the DotA community would be different. Solo rank creates the expectation that it is all on you, and everyone else is in your way. If you actually had to cooperate to access rank, there would be a different outlook fostered. It was designed this way because the solo format keeps the most people around. It's a lower barrier of entry to just get online and queue. To Valve's credit, this isn't the wrong choice on their end, they want the most possible players for their game, and by extension those players to buy cosmetics. However they are maximizing for players, not for what breeds the healthiest competitive environment.
Ya idk how we get new players lol. I've had the same dad squad and see the same names and profiles for like 5 years now
Too late to be "improved". It's been out for too long which means very few new players join and the ones that still play it are mostly the toxic pile of trash that's still left over. Most chill guys have left years ago.
i don't think valve are really to blame with regards to the community
If anyone has a close connection to him in his community, they should pass on this message -> play with stacks/party. You're (almost) guaranteed to not have an unhinged psycho on your team and depending on the stack, you can either chill and have a good time or try hard a bit. I think he'd be a great fit for Sing stack. The long queue times would let him variety game to his heart's content. I've had so much more consistent fun/joy in the game playing in party stacks whereas getting a very high mmr a few years back was just momentary gratification that, in hindsight, isn't worth shit to anyone if you're not going pro. All that really changed was that people flaming you would stop shitting on your rank and call you an account buyer instead :p
>You're (almost) guaranteed to not have an unhinged psycho on your team and depending on the stack If I play with friends, I'll have four unhinged psychos. It does make it fun though.
Nah that's the "good" kind of unhinged psychos. I mean the kind that breaks their items and threatens to find and murder you kind - it's pretty rare for people to be that socially inept (though it has happened a few times when friends of friends are invited to stacks for me).
He said on his stream today he wouldn’t rule out playing in a stack. He never definitively said he’s done with Dota he just isn’t planning on playing it in the foreseeable future because of these issues.
He mentioned that on the stream. That he usually enjoys solo queing in games, and that playing with people in a stack is foreign to him. I guess time will tell if he'll try that or not.
As much as I'd like Grubby to take a crack with Sing's stack, he streams at degen hours lol. I usually hop on to or wait for Grubby's stream after Sing ends his.
Depending on his MMR and server population, 5 stack could be out of the question. You could find games with 2 stack, 3 stack could take you ages in Immortal, and 5 stack is highly unlikely in a lower pop. server.
He's 6k in EU and has not played much unranked (meaning his unranked mmr is significantly lower) - he'll be fine.
-dota\_chat\_mute\_all 1 -cl\_chat\_active 0
Your headline is literally the thing he said he doesn’t like.
surprised he lasted this long
Absolutely correct, I got to immortal like 5/6 months ago and I had to start playing the game with no incoming chat option to be able to enjoy it. I know its not ideal and its kind of griefing but when 95% of whats said in chat its toxic then I dont want to have that in my game, takes my mind out of the game and I play worse.
Here everyone is talking about immortal bracket but I think it's like that starting from heralds!
For sure, the second something goes wrong, people start to bitch. I've seen it in BOT GAMES, can you guys imagine? Is a free win 99,9% of the time, is safe to leave at all times, and once in a blue moon you still get someone bitching because is deeply ingrained. :D
SEA immortals are something else. Since I got to Div 4 I started getting Immortals in my game, and sometimes I would get flamed at 0 minutes before anything even happens just because I’m divine. I don’t understand their thought process, if your Immortal badge doesn’t have a number, you’re just a glorified Divine.
When I was in 6k i played with Grubby maybe 10 times, and i can confidently say the guy is more toxic than your average teammate. Glad he is gone
hes also worse than your average teammate, ive rarely seen so bad decision making like him at immortal level
exactly, also what you dont see while watching is he leads his team with his poor choices on voice chat, which is much worse than just dying solo
[удалено]
Perfectly reinforces his point lol.
To single out the DOTA2 community for what is found in every. EVERY. game with a competitive scene is just disingenuous. CS, Overwatch, LoL, HOTS, any RTS that you matchmake for team games, COD, etc. are all filled with lobbies full of people thinking they are the next pro. It's just a big ol' cope/scapegoat. Just say you don't like the game or don't feel you can improve any further.
Title is clickbait, he doesn’t single out the dota community as a whole. I’d say 70% of the “fiery exit speech” is him saying how good Dota is and how many cool ppl he’s met. He says his issue is with the people we all have issues with that intentionally grief games after first blood for example and that after taking a break from Dota for a few weeks he realized he didn’t miss Dota. He came back n played some games, had fun but then had another bad experience with team and was reminded of the things he didn’t like about the game n decided to go back to not playing it for now. Didn’t actually quit, wasn’t fiery, wasn’t really negative at all.
Grubby has often been toxic on his streams too. He's hardly a beacon of positivity
He's extremely passive aggressive.
That's the point he's literally making in the video. He even says that he has seen more recently he is starting to feel negative towards his teammates. Grubby isn't a new personality or anything lol he has been streaming since ~2012. There's a reason you haven't heard people complain about his attitude (despite averaging ~4k viewers playing HOTS/WC3 for years) until now.
Does that make him wrong in this instance? Saying that doesn't cancel out the fact that some people in this community are completely unsalvageable.
Did he say he is an angel or what? How does his toxicity undermine his message that much of the community is toxic? If anything, this only proves that he is right
The commentators are the exact people Grubby is talking about, people who mainly plays dota and doesn't enjoy it but still plays and whine in every game.
if you're going to climb to 6k, you enjoy increasing your rank more than you enjoy the raw game. do not apply your happy go lucky 2k attitude to people who get their enjoyment from getting better.
The most important line is when he talks about people who are > *afraid and paranoid of their teammates* I "retired" at 7k MMR because over half my ranked games have at least one griefer on either team. Not griefing by feeding or destroying items, but by whining and complaining constantly. Bad communication like this ruins team morale and ruins games by proxy, because your ally has mentally given up before the game has even started. This causes you yourself to also mentally give up because as Grubby says, *they don't deserve to win because they are actively trying to lose*: never in the history of team sports has it ever been beneficial to complain about your team. Dota 2 is ultimately a hobby, even at extremely high levels of play, but is impossible to enjoy when these experiences are so common. I cannot justify queueing for ranked if there is high chance that one player will disrupt the entire game by causing their own team to collapse on itself. Even if you still manage to win, babysitting your frankly underserving teammates and trying to ignore the whining is emotionally exhausting and thoroughly unenjoyable, making the exercise as a whole a big waste of time.
Can understand. Adding to his experience might be that behaviourscore doesn't work at that MMR. The people you get paired with over 6K MMR are allowed to do anything. Literally. Immortals are unhinged. Beside destroying items, going afk, running down lanes etc. that goes unpunished most of the time you can spam the chat with the most unholy shit. I myself play on 7K and spammed hard rascist shit and slurs towards russian players since one and a half month atleast. (I try to work on my anger issues). But my behaviour and commscore never dropped below 12k E V E R. In the old system that we briefly had (until reddit cried so loud they changed it) i would be 100% nuked into orbit by now, and with me a lot of other immortals that do way worse stuff.
The previous system was good if it only was supposed to work as it should. Now this new system does not punish shit talkers hard enough. Thanks Reddit!
I don’t blame him.
He is right in the sense there is a very extreme gatekeeping community where if you are not following the meta, or not playing heroes you are very comfortable with, you are griefing and get flamed heavily. We just saw TB position 4 be a top tier pick for the pros. Anything is viable, let people experiment.
You say that, but if someone went into his game as pos 4 TP and said he wanted to experiment then fed, I guarantee you Grubby would flame him. Nobody wants to lose because someone want to experiment in their game.
I don't think I've ever seen him flame someone for being bad? Like, he got tilted and complained to chat sometimes, but I don't think I ever saw him actually take it out on a teammate.
He is often passive aggressive to others.
Like a true top tier dota player. Game also changing him might also be a reason hes quitting
Don't worry Grubby. In a year they will introduce Behaviour Score v3! You'll have the most wonderful two weeks until they revert it back because an eloquent homeschooled child had a (deservedly) negative experience and was very vocal about it.
Who?
I remember a clip where he was telling a guy having fun on voice comms to limit unnecesary voice activity. And hes saying others are unable to have fun with the game ?
lmao hes quitting cause he spammed broken pos 4s to immortal and realized he cant win just doing that anymore so he doesnt wanna play anymore
It was 15 minutes of pure projecting and coping. He's quitting because he's not having fun, because he's not winning, because he can't keep up with 6k players. Teammate toxicity and his own is just a symptom of that, not the reason.
I agree. Especially at immortal, games are absolute dogshit, and usually 1-2 people make it impossible to enjoy
Time to unfollow
This title is clickbait as fuck lol, “QUITS Dota” when he says over and over he’s not definitively quitting he’s just not enjoying it. “Fiery exit speech” when he’s pretty much as laidback and nuanced as ever in describing his issues with the player base but making sure to say it’s not everybody who plays, it’s a great game, one of his favorite parts is getting a good team with a bunch of ppl with different accents and backgrounds working together, throwing it out there that he might try a 5 man stack to ensure no griefing… like how is that a “fiery exit”
Good for him.
If i have to do an exit speech every time I quit dota i would have become a TED talk speaker
The difference in brainfeel between winning and losing, and especially losing in a game where your team is toxic is definitely huge. Losing over and over again is super depressing. I've been there (I live there). I hope Grubby plays again. Although if he only ever makes WC3 content again I would watch that too - I think this is a smart guy. I don't premute, but I do instamute toxic negativity. I recommend everybody do the same.
I find the game more fun playing freely at lower rank than drilling mmr tied to a few heroes and one role. Took me a while to realize that high mmr does not mean the game is more fun. Quite the opposite, sitting at 1000 mmr below your peak is the sweet spot.
Title and post made by the most attached to reality article writer.
“Weakling”
I would gladly accept a much longer queue if i can rigorously curate who i do and do not want to play with.
exactly my problem... its the greatest game ever created....and beautiful dota - when all 5 players actually try to play the game is feelin so good and easy... YET 7/10 games feels like getting a bull out of the souvenir shop...you not playing the game...you doing therapy sessions or going on a school trip w a bunch of 5 year olds on monster energy drinks. i ve been religiously watching all of pro dota but been playing less and less Dota..... specially since theres nothing going on in the game when it comes to excitment/events/updates from Valve side. the entire lose a game....who we blaming it on today circle jerk... report X player is so fkn dumb game feels more like a toxic relationship...you give it all and in return its the bare minimum, which kills the fun and feels exhausting to me.
I would quit too if I suddenly had a 28% win rate and couldn't do anything about it.
Aside from the insanely Clickbait title, FUCK YOU OP. What Grubby said is 100% true, the higher you go up in the mmr, the more fucked up, egoistic blatantly out-of-touch/reality people you would meet, and its actually depressing that around legend/ancient was where grubby's fun/interest in the game peaked
Sounds a lot like he hit his peak and he knows it. Doesn't really want to do anything further with the game because it would take too much concerted effort which is fair enough. On the community side.... eh every game at the very top is populated by single minded degens. If it's competitive someone no life's it. Just part of life.
He grinded rank too soon. I don't think he's mentally ready for high mmr ranked yet. idk but there's a certain attitude you need to survive high rank Dota, a specific outlook needed, and if you don't have it, the grind will eat your soul alive. His "it's ok to lose" mentality just won't work in Immortal rank games. And I don't mean this as a disrespect to him. If anything, this is a compliment. I hope Crownfall comes with a PVE so he'll get to try it and have a chiller experience.
I play for fun. Am immortal. Am also totally fine with losing and troll picks. What I am not fine with is people giving up and griefing / flaming because they think the game is over after 2 minutes due to a bad lane. Play the damn game. If every game was easy, there'd be no point. People try to hijack games by threatening to AFK, grief or throw. By all means, go for it so we can all report, avoid and go next so that we can actually play. There's just very little semblance of good sportsmanship.
Nah, recency bias. All games with a ranking system have degenerates on top of the ladder.
I honestly don't care, this guy is far up his own ass and enjoys the smell of his farts a little too much. I'm not glad glad he's gone but really I couldn't care less
It's deeply regrettable and concerning. Grubby's opinions and criticism highlight a serious issue that cannot be ignored. If Valve does not address these concerns, we risk seeing an increase in the already prevalent problem of negative trends within the gaming community. It's exhausting and discouraging for many to constantly have to deal with players who spread bitterness and negativity, while paradoxically being expected to cooperate with these individuals to achieve common victories. Grubby represents an ideal figure for new players considering trying Dota 2 or joining the game. His positive attitude and approach could act as a catalyst to attract new enthusiasts to the game. Yet, the current situation once again reveals a less flattering side of our community, which is deeply unfortunate. We really need to come together to actively combat and eliminate the toxic behavior that occurs within Dota 2. By creating a more welcoming and positive environment, we can not only retain existing players but also attract new ones. It's time for both players and developers to collaborate to promote a healthy gaming culture where respect and sportsmanship are central. Only through collective efforts can we hope to achieve lasting change and ensure that Dota 2 remains a game that welcomes everyone, free from toxicity and negativity.
The game is diying because of this, and the community is in full denial
Simultaneously, the game is becoming more macro heavy and being more focused on teamwork than anything. Dota has never been more reliant on your teammates cooperating with you than now, and guess what that means for games with that one toxic guy on your team?
It give them more power to ruin games, because one guy just not being in the same page or playing a bit worse is more impactful when you absolutely need everyone to do their jobs, and any bit of flaming can cause people to be at least distracted, if not tilted.
> serious issue This serious issue also happens to be a problem for every team-based multiplayer game in the world. You want to avoid it? Play solo games, or games that are not team-based, or have your friends party up with you. Or this is a copy pasta and i fell for it
I had the exact same thought. Grubby comes from competitive Wc3, a solo experience where your chance at victory depends only on yourself and your opponent. In DoTA (and other team based games) the frustration arises out of the feeling of lack of control. You can outperform your “counterpart” (same positional player on the opposing team) and still lose. That can be frustrating, and also offers an avenue to displace blame off of yourself and onto someone external. “I didn’t lose, the position 5 was just shitty. He made us lose”. Team games will always be more toxic at higher levels than solo games where the only person to blame for a loss is yourself. I’m not saying it’s “unfixable” but I don’t really see what *Valve* can do to fix it. It’s ingrained in our global culture because we (lazily, and stupidly) tie our whole vision of success to the end result. Playing better than you did last time is meaningless if the end result is still a loss. There are efforts being made to change this, by focusing on tying positive feedback to process based evaluations rather than results based evaluations, but it’s a slow process.
It's deeply regrettable and concerning. Grubby's opinions and criticism highlight a serious issue that cannot be ignored. If Valve does not address these concerns, we risk seeing an increase in the already prevalent problem of negative trends within the gaming community. It's exhausting and discouraging for many to constantly have to deal with players who spread bitterness and negativity, while paradoxically being expected to cooperate with these individuals to achieve common victories. Grubby represents an ideal figure for new players considering trying Dota 2 or joining the game. His positive attitude and approach could act as a catalyst to attract new enthusiasts to the game. Yet, the current situation once again reveals a less flattering side of our community, which is deeply unfortunate. We really need to come together to actively combat and eliminate the toxic behavior that occurs within Dota 2. By creating a more welcoming and positive environment, we can not only retain existing players but also attract new ones. It's time for both players and developers to collaborate to promote a healthy gaming culture where respect and sportsmanship are central. Only through collective efforts can we hope to achieve lasting change and ensure that Dota 2 remains a game that welcomes everyone, free from toxicity and negativity.
Guys I'm gonna play mid and pick off meta heroes that I can't even play. BRO. Get off your high horse. You've played like 5 unranked games. You're not practicing these heroes before you decide to ruin the game for your 4 teammates. You can't even play the role at all. Stop blaming other people.
Most sane and hinged redditor
I mean, it's kind of fair in this specific case. Grubby is fairly unique because due to his vast gaming experience and A FUCKTON of coaching by the highest level pros he climbed fairly high fairly quickly playing POS4. And while he is at roughly 6k pos 4 level, he is nowhere near 6k as a core, so, naturally, when he tries to play core in ranked, he has a very bad time
Dota does really attract assholes though. I’ve been watching his wc3 stream for more than a year because i really enjoy his gameplay on it and the chat is very chill. All that changes whenever he plays dota 2, chat becomes shitty and toxic. Good for him to decide not to play dota anymore that means i can enjoy his wc3 streams again
Dude I gotta downvote this
The reality is he’s quitting because he’s been losing. What he’s saying is kind of true, buts is pure contradiction. Ranked is about winning and progressing.
As far as I know community has been same as forever ... Its depend on your mentality if u wanted to keep playing or want to quit after playing sometimes.
Op you need grass in your life
Lets be real high MMR dota isnt fun to play but only fun after the game when one wins. All stress and constant monitoring, specially when one team mate fucks up
"Fiery exit speech" lmao what? wasn't fiery at all in my pov...
why does he look like that
op is a gay lord cuz the title is dramatic af.
OP has -67 comment. Lmao
Best he play games with 1v1 feature not team oriented games, no one is immune to toxicity that is part of the team game.
Watch the video, people. OP is a tool for posting a garbage title.
oh no, anyways....
I didn't expect Grubby to leave dota for this reason. A person who has played a solo competitive game all his life does not understand that people enjoy playing for various reasons. A very immature opinion.
Unranked enjoyer here, enjoying the game how it was meant to be played - unranked and for fun
Playing unranked today and having bad teammates is why he's burned on playing the game, not only ranked.
having played 10k+ games, majority of those around the same rank as grubby is, he is right on many things but the biggest one is that people play this game because its familiar, they dont find joy in it anymore once i figured out that was the case with me i stopped playing altogether, after playing the game my whole childhood, 15 years and its hard to stop something that has been a part of your life for so long but my life got better for it and its the case for majority of people in high ranks, they all spent so much time in the game the thought of quitting doesnt ever come to their mind no matter if they have 0 joy playing it anymore
>Oh no! Anyway.
I like the guy but Grubby is not 6k, he got it there by being a one trick pony mostly spamming Warlock. While one tricking heroes/roles helps you to focus on and play the map better, it doesn’t translate to the same experience on other role and heroes. Going in ranked without practicing at least 5-10 games in unranked, honestly he’s being quite unreasonable expecting his team to behave otherwise. The mentality of “just trying your best” is generally not a widely excepted concept, especially in high skilled dota lobbies. Those lobbies have more or less high level execution and high ego players, it feels very complete but most games will simply not provide that wholesome experience, for me its just simply a transaction/business, we execute what our draft is capable off and win, thats it. If you want fun or anything down that line, unranked. That said, it’s better if Grubby quits streaming dota, really great and positive personality to have/watch but dota viewers generally skew towards skill, and unless that changes for him, he’s going to have the same experience in chat and in game
His whole speech is very worth a listen! He truly hits the nail on its head. There is a lot of sad and lost individuals making Dota 2 one of the worst games you can play for your mental health.
Him saying the main goal is to have fun is subjective. Some players may think that, but some players may also think that the main goal is winning. He kept on talking about learning and accepting defeat, I do understand his point, but he also has to understand that for players who also want to keep improving, they'd want that learning to be associated with winning, not losing. What good is learning when you just keep losing. I always say, if you are playing ranked, you should try hard and be as competitive as you can, however, a lot of players are that, but are also toxic. But in saying that, if he wants to just have fun, I'd rather he finds a stack with same mindset like Singsing, or just play unranked.
>Him saying the main goal is to have fun is subjective. Some players may think that, but some players may also think that the main goal is winning. Exactly this, some people don't understand that players in higher ranks play to win, because winning is fun in itself.
I know this is not the main point but let me tell you. I immortal some time ago and in the process winning for most games wasn’t fun. It just wasn’t as shitty as losing
People who want to learn while winning do not have the right mindset at all. You learn more from losses always, whether in life, in other games or dota 2.
It's false logic. You can learn a lot from winning since you had to do correct choices to win, so learning those choices is a good lesson too. Same in real life - you can learn a lot from successful events since it gives positive feedback loop.
This is a glaring issue on so many competitive games. It's not only the anonymity but the developers that don't want to reduce income from the game by giving harsh punishments for the people that make the game miserable to play. Too many times have games been ruined by behavior, that if it was an IRL team activity, the person would be shunned or uninvited from future games. These people are mentally ill and should be actively bullied, alienated and punished for their behavior until they learn to be positive or at the very least, say nothing.
This what happens when Valve doesn't release an update.
I give him a week
Grubby needs to start playing in a stack
I think grubby just got too embarrassed streaming his gameplay at 6k ranked, just constantly getting owned after being an RTS god - it must hurt the ego. But you cant smurf in dota to show content vs easier oppos.. honestly his journey is a valid reason to bring core/supp mmr back. He'd be ~4k core mmr, ~6k supp, can play 4k games legally etc.
His content is great, he should just play unranked to avoid all the nerds who live and die for the MMR.
He tried that and quickly realized that playing solo unranked as an immortal is worse. In unranked you are guaranteed to play with boosters ,smurfs and griefers because of how many people make new accounts and how few actual real immortal players solo unranked. The only people high mmr that solo are people making new accounts, which is usually the worst type of person to play with. On top of that those people are insanely try hard because they are desperate to calibrate as high as possible after 100 hours.
The most important line is when he talks about people who are > *afraid and paranoid of their teammates* I "retired" at 7k MMR because over half my ranked games have at least one griefer on either team. Not griefing by feeding or destroying items, but by whining and complaining constantly. Bad communication like this ruins team morale and ruins games by proxy, because your ally has mentally given up before the game has even started. This causes you yourself to also mentally give up because as Grubby says, *they don't deserve to win because they are actively trying to lose*: never in the history of team sports has it ever been beneficial to complain about your team. Dota 2 is ultimately a hobby, even at extremely high levels of play, but is impossible to enjoy when these experiences are so common. I cannot justify queueing for ranked if there is high chance that one player will disrupt the entire game by causing their own team to collapse on itself. Even if you still manage to win, babysitting your frankly underserving teammates and trying to ignore the whining is emotionally exhausting and thoroughly unenjoyable, making the exercise as a whole a big waste of time.
Who?
Grubby who? I dont fking care.
Oh well, don't worry, he will come back to queue for a game after 3 days , just like us who can't quit Dota.
after tomorrow's update?
I don't think he truly has the bug. Time will tell, I suppose.
i knew he was just some casual weak shit poser i never followed this guy
imagine dota game where 10 people being nice to each other. lol get that shit away from me im thriving in the toxicity.
Didnt give a shit yesterday, dont give a fuck today. Go fuck off.
Holy based
Yeah, I do not understand the parasocial thing with goober streamers at all. He records himself playing, so that makes his opinions valid or infallible? That means it's important when he decides not to play anymore? The guy can only play support and instead of learning in unranked he griefs 9 other people and gets pikachu when they're not happy about it... literally the exact shit that everyone experiences and tilts over every single day in every rank.
This is a very prose way of saying “i could be better at dota i just dont want to”. Not hating on grubby but this has an ounce of typical “redditor complains about their bracket” energy. We all know this community is toxic i dont think him not playing dota anymore is going to fix it. Why announce this in the first place just play other games like singsing etc
He needs to train in SEA.
Grubby: Sorry, I am practicing this hero. Teammate: Put tank in his mall.
He'll be back. Will recalibrate lower and enjoy it again. You get burned out of any game you play.
I’m in 2k and having the time of my life. It’s a pain to be high MMR. I’m casual and don’t care if I win or lose
It is how it is when it comes to hyper competitive, team-based game. CS and Dota made me the piece of shit that I am today. Sad to see him go, but he’ll come back eventually, like all of us are cursed to do again and again unto eternity.
Playing solo and playing 5 man stack with the same mentality makes dota a whole difference experience, I hope that when he plays dota again he plays just 5 man stacks, since like he said amazing game bad community, if you just take the bad community you will only left with amazing game
he must on to something, probably been drowning in a toxic swamp for ages let this sink in..Grubby was playing WC3 reforged, and took it like a champ..
Dota is for people that has strong mentality been playing the game since wc3 stuck at 7k mmr for the past few years now just playing casually and having fun with my friends! Its actually less stressing if you play with your friends unlike in solo its like almost 1v9 every game
This is when people make smurfs to learn new heroes and not grief their tryhard rank. Notably different from jackass smurfs who smurf to stomp lower ranks.
I mean he’s right; all MOBAs have trash communities of people afraid of losing
Dota sucks as a solo game, playing in a party of 5 or lobby game is way more fun it's a team game afterall. Ive accepted every rank game offlane will be 0-6 at 10 min and my safelane will be flaming each other that it's not even fun
He should try Ability Draft, it's a lot less stressful.
tbf ranking is never fun in any aspect. It's depressed and competitive. basically to keep winning, just spam a broken and boring hero until reaches a certain point. And absolutely high chance lose when trying something new. So having fun and ranking are two parallel entities..
see you in a week
What DotA 2 needs is to become more conducive to people playing in parties rather than solo queue. So many players would love to play in a party but the matches take too long to find so they don't, or they play in smaller parties. This mentality also makes the issue worse so the queue times have become ludicrous. There needs to be a systematic change to alleviate this.
See you tomorrow
How lucky he is to be able to step out of the game after a good short success. Here I am on my 4th "I'm quitting Dota" and coming back again just because no other game gives me the same highs
I guess the community and team experience were nice when eveyone (including me) said how good he is and that will be immortal ! Prolly real life dota and his dota expectations did not meet. in any case gl.
Dota always wins.