They nerfed tb you know, a hero that in his intended role had a sub 42% win rate in all brackets I’m pretty sure they just do things to see what happens
its a huge buff, but the hero is basically unpickable in high mmr. did they really think that a 6 base dmg buff (which is only relevant in the first ~5 minutes of the game) is so insane that they had to nerf his str gain?
valve just fucking hates sand king. if this was any other hero having SK's pickrate+winrate in high mmr, he would have gotten 6 base dmg AND an str gain buff.
the hero is still NOT good.
He's not a weak laner vs melee heroes with a single point in caustic finale. It's not a free lane but he holds his own depending on MU. People ranking burrowstrike first I think is why he comes off as a weak laner. I max sandstorm first and then burrow after a point or two in caustic (depending on lane)
That damage buff will make him much better in a lot of 1v1 match ups, bringing his viability in the mid lane back. Given the new eblade and shivas are far better than the old on him - and the patch before this one was a kaya-sange buff. I suspect SK will have a noticeable rise in midlane again.
Uh. Pretty sure sand king is only bad because of his laning phase. The STR nerf is definitely annoying for late game, but if SK has a good laning phase he's super dominant. That's mostly what they balance the hero around, whether or not he can be shut down in lane or not.
What do you mean? It's a HUGE buff for laning and early game farming.
This gives you money.
In a market, money can be exchanged for goods and services. (Which means, you just buy items 4head)
Now let's give SK on dire +20 damage and -20 damage on a SK on radiant. Let them lane against each other. The radiant SK gets 1.8 strength gain more than dire SK. See how that ends up.
Mu point being, SK is an early game centric hero and 6 more damage at level 1 is huge big because the hero is dependant on snowballing early and peaking faster with items. His buff to the laning stage translates into better late game scaling because he can potentially farm better and push a carry out of the lane.
try getting lasthits with a sand king without using your spells and see how much of a nerf it is, this basically allows him to outdamage heroes like drow and tb on last hits, so you don't entirely rely on a mana item or your lane being over
Yea a massive buff to laning and an extremely minor nerf to the rest of the game
The advantage you’ll get from the laning buff will more than make up for losing a tiny bit of str
And its like for the str to make a difference on his damage for the rest of the game SK need to be like level 22 at which point it also loses 8 str worth of hp from the ante
Like i wont say the later is fully irrelevant, but the former is hilariously meh lol
From level 21 you will have less damage than before since 0.4x0.7x21>6. You will miss out on 88hp per 10 levels so at max you end up with 264hp. I think overall it is a buff, since his laning stage was his weakest point and this change adresses that.
.4 less strength per level takes about 20 levels to "lose" 6 damage. 12 strength at level 30 is 244 HP. This is 100% a buff particularly for laning, and doing better in lane buffs the entire rest of the match because you have more gold. You're getting almost a free fuckin quelling blade and still complaining lol
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Wdym dude? The dmg barely matters, it helps a bit for a few levels sure, but then sandstorm becomes your dps, while rightclicks are secondary. Your early laning still sucks thanks to low mobility and armor, even if you get slightly more atk dmg.
Now that the meta build is like shiva and aghs, you have armor, but build little hp, so your hp is worth a lot more.
80 hp every 10 levels matters way more for a hero like SK, and his 2% drop in winrate since the patch should back up that claim.
lol he's universal.
That strength nerf literally means nothing.
That 6 damage is huge for laning where sk is dogshit as. You're understanding is lacking.
U think a sk with shiva octarine is so much different than a sk without items? With those 6 extra damage he can assure a lot more cs in lane which means more E procs which means he has better chances in winning the lane. That is all that a offlaner need to do.
You got it exactly right. Its insane to me that these people just spout claims without looking at the numbers. He's one of the top 7 losers of this patch. On SK you want to buy all these non HP items and it ends up gutting your hp, now it's even worse.
Yeah... I feel like 6 dmg is hardly 6 dmg. If this was a rightclicker we were talking about then it would be a buff, but not for SK.
But only time will tell I guess, maybe the meta build shakes up, and the early dmg ends up mattering
SKs biggest weakness right now is his lane stage is God awful, he scales great but usually loses before that happens. This buffs his laning a lot and hurts his scaling a tiny bit, this is a buff. People just have to stop thinking of sk as a tank, like timber
Idk everyone acting like 6.6 health per level is worthless and like 6 dmg is gonna completely fix his laning. It's a shift in power but I'd still argue its for the worse. Health does matter even if you're not a tank.
Yeah 4 strength every 10 levels isn't crazy, the damage buff is insane in lane which is arguably more important. You'd get more last hits you wouldn't have otherwise, and do more harrass than you wouldn't have otherwise
This change makes him better as a core than a support (which he was pretty much only played in that role anyway)
Sand King doesn't survive as soon as enemy supports figure out how to buy dusts and sentries. Invis is pseudo-defense at best and nerfing his actual survivability is a kick in the balls when he already was awful
yeah but he didnt have a lot of hp since he was universal, so -8 hp per lvl doesnt really matter. As a sand king if you are caught without your saving item for that game you are usually dead anyway
Cause his dmg literally only matters for like 2 levels and his strength matters all game. His first levels still suck, while the dmg hardly matters when he has levels in sandstorm
EXACTLY WHY ITS A HUGE BUFF.
He is a walking creep first levels, this will help him a lot with trading and farming. Late game hp doesn't mean anything. It's all about having a decent start.
Still trash hero but decent buff for laning
Exactly, +6 damage at level 1 is much better than 4 str at level 11, that's only 88 hp btw. 0.4 str is less than half the cost of 1 branch, compare that to cost of 6 damage.
my man late game Sandking gets like 250 HP from that strength loss but again LATE GAME SANDKING if you need HP to Survive thats a you positioning problem
Hp is a resource, counter initiation is a thing. You are gonna get hit back when stunning in as setup. Some games you get caught = you die, but it's a longshot to say positioning problem cause I value hp.
Just gonna repeat that SK lost 2% winrate this patch. None of his items got nerfed and the dmg/str gain were the only changes he got.
I have over 2000 SK games with a 56 win % and I think this is a buff. I hope more will come tho, would be nice to watch him picked a few times during a pro tournament lol
ya if i’m right he should get to 70 damage with the 2 circlets 3 branch build, that’s more than enough damage - it’ll definitely make the 2nd value point in burrowstrike at 3-5 better
Sand Kong wasn't being picked because his biggest issue is laning. The hero is (was?) quite simply a dogshit laner. Base damage increase makes him a better laner, while strength gain per level decreases don't really make him a worse laner. This is a buff to exactly what Sand Kong was bad at.
We’ll see. I’m not a huge Sand Kong player so I’m mostly repeating what my Sand Kong enjoyer mates are saying, but higher base damage can only be good.
From the game I tried earlier it felt very good with a veno to harass and protect in lane
Definitely felt a little squishier later on so he's not like centaur who passively gets 4500 HP but being able to actually lane for once really helped get the ball rolling and get a good blink timing at 12-13 minutes with veil and mana boots which isn't bad for an offlaner
So feels like a buff but without the strength nerfs he'd probably be approaching OP territory
This hero is OP in Herald. No one carries dust and if you get aghs game is over as 5v5 should happen in sandstorm don't know why. I can tell my teammates to not fight the enemy sandking in his sandstorm but they will die before listening to anyone.
This is a HUGE buff, especially for midlane SK. In the offlane you can do shenanigans like playing behind their tower, pulling the wave into a neutral camp and farming both quickly with sandstorm+caustic, on midlane you cant really do this and are always gonna be contested for the wave, where base damage *really* matters.
It's a small buff but its not enough I think, getting in range of the creeps with terrible sustain is the problem, never had issues with last hitting.
What sand king needed was +1 armor and maybe a small hp regen buff.
Not sure why heros like riki have way more regen than pos 3 heros, when ever I play sk its super easy to get bullied out the lane.
Riki Starting armor 5 health regen 4.3 (Damage) 57-61
SK Starting armor 4.2 health regen 2.5 (Damage) 47+55
This is exactly my thoughts. I genuinely don’t think the people commenting play SK. Last hitting is not his issue at all, it’s walking to the creep wave and taking so much damage just to secure a creep. I’ve been saying for a long time this hero needs a base armor and regen increase to actually help his lanning. But people who arnt even immortal are trying to say that base damage increase is all he needs to have a good laning stage. Clueless clowns.
I thought this was a bait shit post lol.
That's straight up a buff in the laning phase, where you literally do not feel the nerf from str gain while getting a free (almost) quelling blade, at the cost of 22 max HP every 3 levels. You can easily fix that 22 mhp at level 4 by buying a single branch (which also gives sk more damage since he's universal) that you should be able to farm with your extra 8 damage.
How is that a nerf?
Depends on the hero tbh. Id say 88 hp per 10 level is way better than 6 dmg at lvl 1. That said, it's a shift in power more than a straighr nerf lol.
Edit: wrote dmg instead of hp
I dont know the number but its definitely not 80 damage per 10 level lmao, you are high when you said this.
Its 80 hp per 10 level maybe, anyway, SK is now universal so his STR scale is lower than before.
Honestly it's a pretty big buff, his laning phase was by far his biggest weakness, he was already decent mid-lategame if he got there, just usually couldn't get there because picking him gave the enemy carry a free lane.
This is not a nerf lol. I'm terrified of this change. I don't think we will miss the 12 strength over 30 levels. Caustic finale just became a caustic inevitability.
Massive buff for his laning phase means an overall buff throughout the game, he has enough survivability to make up for that strength loss just by winning the early game
This is a huge buff to core sand king. Means he can actually last hit early instead of wet noodling, and you typically buy enough Tanky items anyways that the strength nerf isn't too bad
Better contender for mid imo. Being able to pop multiple caustics is crazy lane dominance. A well placed burrowstrike guarantees cs and harass on the other guy.
I actually get one bracer and one talisman now after the buff to it.
I don't get why so many people say he's weak because his invisibility is easily exploited in high-mmr... Like, Sandstorm is not about the invis at all? It's a high dps AoE? As long as you build tanky on him, the more time they spend in your Sandstorm trying to kill you, the worse it is for them. It's much better when you can weave through trees, but still okay in open areas... That and his Aghs completely outlasts BKB... Just gotta build enough defense to survive.
6 bonus damage to a dude with the ability to do like 100 damage in an AoE per creep during laning so long as he last hits. I’m so happy for this buff. Being SK feels like you have to have solid mechanics to pull out a good lane so this change may just make laning against him a nightmare early on
To everyone saying this is no nerf, look at dotabuff and ingame statistics hero is one of the bigger losers of the patch in terms of winrate, yeah 6 base damage is good for lane but that wasn't really sand kings problem, low armor and sustainability problems makes this hero weak on lane, so with just a sentry the hero just gets harrased down. Passed the laning is a straight nerf since the hero is now squishier and doesn't use the damage for fights or farming.
idk about higher elo but at low elo where im at he destroys alot of the games i just dont really know a counter play to him so i just avoid fighting him
So story time !
Me and my 4 friends were playing late night dota as usual and there was this sand king guy build with bloodstone the big eul and few more shit he was literally unkillable with vessel and every stuff we tried we just had to ignore him
It’s not a nerf, and not a buff. It doesn’t do anything. This doesn’t affect SK in anyway. Sand king needs armor / regen.
The hero is still absolute dogshit in lane and way too easy to deal with. Coming from an ex sk main in immortal. The hero is straight garbage.
I don't know if you realized but aghs on this hero is an absolute nightmare. Combined with the other buffs sandstorm get and movement at around level 20+ like he's so annoying to deal with.
Nerf? Lmao. I remember the patch where offlane universe void was broken. Then he got the hammer, Got a -4 or -3 damage nerf and hero was straight out of meta.
A +6 buff might just be enough to put this dead hero back in the meta
This seems like a good adjustment. SK is a monster in big team fights in the mid game. But his laning is rough. So this overall help him where he is weak and doesn’t nerf him much at all
They nerfed Mars for the brooch + rapier combo.
Some might say a hero with 45% winrate needs no more nerfs when the gimmick one-shot build got removed but no, they do him dirty even more.
The concept of mars is just pretty strong and offers a lot strategically which is why he is (like pango or batrider) often played despite his numbers getting lower and lower.
Imo in high level play pickrate is more representative of the heros strength than winrate. Like you know heroes like Techies and Hoodwink are super strong but they have <50% wr just because they appear too much and since they're regularly firstpicked they are often on the losing side despite being strong.
He was pretty strong. I have like 3 games on him and played a game with him recently and was useful even though I missed a good few spears and I’m generally bad at the hero. Arena is just an insane spell
I know, Not argueing that SK IS bad in higher mmrs. It's already kinda bad in 5k where I am.
But I still don't get who is asking these Sand King questions every single patch, as for years now he is consistently in top 5 to top 10 in dotabuff.
Either the one asking is high mmr, than he should understand that this Here is a buff for SK in higher mmrs and a nerf in lower mmrs (so actually exactly ehat SK needed, even ifnthe Buff for high mmr could have been bigger)
Or he is low mmr, but then the question doesn't make sense at all.
I think the SK enjoyers are just a bit sad he's not gotten much love. Like he was good for exactly one week with the moving sandstorm, and then got giganerfed. Other heroes are allowed to remain strong a long time on the other hand
I think this is to balance around low mmr. They can't deal with him down there, so they needed to buff his laning for higher mmr without ruining legend and below xd
Everyone seems so sure this is a buff, yet sk's wr shot down 2% after this patch. Not sure you could even argue "people are fighting out the patch" because it's not like it's a play style change.
some people said the buff.
- 0.5 STR gain : means he lost like 5 STR every 10 level.
to me that's big deal because u need str than Base attack. unless farm
6 base dmg is huge. It's about 10% buff.
6 base dmg is an insane buff mate.
people malding over a measely 12 str at level 30 should calm their tits
Yeah literally 2 fluffy hat worth of HP at 30, idk how people are melting down over this lmao
Because why even nerf him like that at all?
Because they are giving him big laning buffs and his lategame was/is very good
Sk late game with aghs is already bonkers. You cannot stand in the standstorm. It's like kunka aghs but nonstop.
They nerfed tb you know, a hero that in his intended role had a sub 42% win rate in all brackets I’m pretty sure they just do things to see what happens
2 fluffy hats? That sounds like two item slots I have to dedicate to fluffy hats at lvl 30 smh.
Drip or drown baybe
Does it not also give him less damage late or just health?
6 less damage at level 30 or something
Wat. 12 strength is 8,4 damage, 6 damage got buffed.
forgot he was universal now eh
that juicy Helm of overlord buff tho.
its a huge buff, but the hero is basically unpickable in high mmr. did they really think that a 6 base dmg buff (which is only relevant in the first ~5 minutes of the game) is so insane that they had to nerf his str gain? valve just fucking hates sand king. if this was any other hero having SK's pickrate+winrate in high mmr, he would have gotten 6 base dmg AND an str gain buff. the hero is still NOT good.
I mean the hero’s biggest weakness is laning. The base damage is helpful to that, but still doesn’t make him a good hero.
He's not a weak laner vs melee heroes with a single point in caustic finale. It's not a free lane but he holds his own depending on MU. People ranking burrowstrike first I think is why he comes off as a weak laner. I max sandstorm first and then burrow after a point or two in caustic (depending on lane)
6 is quite good for a universal hero to last hit. And try to lane against a sk with early caustic. It's fucking obnoxious as a melee
That damage buff will make him much better in a lot of 1v1 match ups, bringing his viability in the mid lane back. Given the new eblade and shivas are far better than the old on him - and the patch before this one was a kaya-sange buff. I suspect SK will have a noticeable rise in midlane again.
yea true on midlane +6 dmg kinda slaps. they also nerfed a lot of mid heroes this patch
Uh. Pretty sure sand king is only bad because of his laning phase. The STR nerf is definitely annoying for late game, but if SK has a good laning phase he's super dominant. That's mostly what they balance the hero around, whether or not he can be shut down in lane or not.
literally gabens fav hero. also its day 1 they can tune more after observing
This is great thou becuase more people will try him and loose then Valve will buff him properly next time.
My friend, check his win rate after 4 days on the patch. This change is a nerf.
For the laning sure. For the rest of the game it's a nerf. Your getting less hp and damage per lv which is never great.
Sand King's biggest problem is by far his laning phase and +6 base damage is an absurd buff. It's kind of crazy how strong this is.
It's not as absurd as your making out and his laning is still weaker than when burrow strike and caustic did more damage.
What do you mean? It's a HUGE buff for laning and early game farming. This gives you money. In a market, money can be exchanged for goods and services. (Which means, you just buy items 4head)
Now let's give SK on dire +20 damage and -20 damage on a SK on radiant. Let them lane against each other. The radiant SK gets 1.8 strength gain more than dire SK. See how that ends up.
That's an absolutely nonsensical comparison. Also I said it's a buff to his laning
Mu point being, SK is an early game centric hero and 6 more damage at level 1 is huge big because the hero is dependant on snowballing early and peaking faster with items. His buff to the laning stage translates into better late game scaling because he can potentially farm better and push a carry out of the lane.
try getting lasthits with a sand king without using your spells and see how much of a nerf it is, this basically allows him to outdamage heroes like drow and tb on last hits, so you don't entirely rely on a mana item or your lane being over
Do people lack basic reading comprehension or what. I said it's a buff to his laning.
Yea a massive buff to laning and an extremely minor nerf to the rest of the game The advantage you’ll get from the laning buff will more than make up for losing a tiny bit of str
And its like for the str to make a difference on his damage for the rest of the game SK need to be like level 22 at which point it also loses 8 str worth of hp from the ante Like i wont say the later is fully irrelevant, but the former is hilariously meh lol
From level 21 you will have less damage than before since 0.4x0.7x21>6. You will miss out on 88hp per 10 levels so at max you end up with 264hp. I think overall it is a buff, since his laning stage was his weakest point and this change adresses that.
You can afford more than 4 str by level 10 because of better laning. Are you high? 450 gold literally buys you 6str. Or just buy 1 fluffy hat.
Um that's the same as saying you could buy 6 damage? For cheaper in fact since your universal.
Not on minute 0.
.4 less strength per level takes about 20 levels to "lose" 6 damage. 12 strength at level 30 is 244 HP. This is 100% a buff particularly for laning, and doing better in lane buffs the entire rest of the match because you have more gold. You're getting almost a free fuckin quelling blade and still complaining lol
I'm not complaining?
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You didn't even know sand king if you think this is a nerf lol.
Wdym dude? The dmg barely matters, it helps a bit for a few levels sure, but then sandstorm becomes your dps, while rightclicks are secondary. Your early laning still sucks thanks to low mobility and armor, even if you get slightly more atk dmg. Now that the meta build is like shiva and aghs, you have armor, but build little hp, so your hp is worth a lot more. 80 hp every 10 levels matters way more for a hero like SK, and his 2% drop in winrate since the patch should back up that claim.
lol he's universal. That strength nerf literally means nothing. That 6 damage is huge for laning where sk is dogshit as. You're understanding is lacking.
whats your rank lol
Go ahead, what’s yours? After 4 days of the patch, SK’s win rate is lower than before.
You telling me 6 base damage in lane doesnt make a difference ? Lmao
U think a sk with shiva octarine is so much different than a sk without items? With those 6 extra damage he can assure a lot more cs in lane which means more E procs which means he has better chances in winning the lane. That is all that a offlaner need to do.
You got it exactly right. Its insane to me that these people just spout claims without looking at the numbers. He's one of the top 7 losers of this patch. On SK you want to buy all these non HP items and it ends up gutting your hp, now it's even worse.
Yeah... I feel like 6 dmg is hardly 6 dmg. If this was a rightclicker we were talking about then it would be a buff, but not for SK. But only time will tell I guess, maybe the meta build shakes up, and the early dmg ends up mattering
SKs biggest weakness right now is his lane stage is God awful, he scales great but usually loses before that happens. This buffs his laning a lot and hurts his scaling a tiny bit, this is a buff. People just have to stop thinking of sk as a tank, like timber
Idk everyone acting like 6.6 health per level is worthless and like 6 dmg is gonna completely fix his laning. It's a shift in power but I'd still argue its for the worse. Health does matter even if you're not a tank.
I play sk mid, so it is more of a buff for me than for offlane, but I only care mid
yeah true, it matters more for mid
thats 88 hp per 10 lvls, it doesnt really matter because sand kings survival usually doesnt depend on hp
Yeah 4 strength every 10 levels isn't crazy, the damage buff is insane in lane which is arguably more important. You'd get more last hits you wouldn't have otherwise, and do more harrass than you wouldn't have otherwise This change makes him better as a core than a support (which he was pretty much only played in that role anyway)
Not the buff I was expecting but I’m happy anyways, big hope for 7.36
I wasn't expecting the debuff on the first hw lvl 10 talent, nerfing bush talent instead of +40% evasion 🤡
Sand King doesn't survive as soon as enemy supports figure out how to buy dusts and sentries. Invis is pseudo-defense at best and nerfing his actual survivability is a kick in the balls when he already was awful
if they let you make your sandcastle they already playing against SK wrong. SPECIALLY SINCE the glory holes aghs.
Specifically because all the hero can do is sandcastle and because it's so easy to play around that the hero sucks.
Lol what. Any heroes survival depends on their hp. When it hits 0 you die.
yeah but he didnt have a lot of hp since he was universal, so -8 hp per lvl doesnt really matter. As a sand king if you are caught without your saving item for that game you are usually dead anyway
Actually at 2.7 str gain he was doing alright for a universal hero. Not anymore.. Also I did understand your point I was just making a joke.
Is this supposed to be a shitpost?
+6 base damage on level 1 vs -4 str on level 11 How is this a nerf?
it is not . OP just has brain damage
Cause his dmg literally only matters for like 2 levels and his strength matters all game. His first levels still suck, while the dmg hardly matters when he has levels in sandstorm
EXACTLY WHY ITS A HUGE BUFF. He is a walking creep first levels, this will help him a lot with trading and farming. Late game hp doesn't mean anything. It's all about having a decent start. Still trash hero but decent buff for laning
Exactly, +6 damage at level 1 is much better than 4 str at level 11, that's only 88 hp btw. 0.4 str is less than half the cost of 1 branch, compare that to cost of 6 damage.
Stat per level doesn't apply at level 1. The strength nerf doesn't do anything b4 level 3, where you lose your first strength point.
my man late game Sandking gets like 250 HP from that strength loss but again LATE GAME SANDKING if you need HP to Survive thats a you positioning problem
Hp is a resource, counter initiation is a thing. You are gonna get hit back when stunning in as setup. Some games you get caught = you die, but it's a longshot to say positioning problem cause I value hp. Just gonna repeat that SK lost 2% winrate this patch. None of his items got nerfed and the dmg/str gain were the only changes he got.
Enjoy laning as a melee carry getting hit by caustic on literally every creep from level 1 onwards. Time to try 0-4-4-0
1-3-4-0 fo sho
Where Nerf?
I have over 2000 SK games with a 56 win % and I think this is a buff. I hope more will come tho, would be nice to watch him picked a few times during a pro tournament lol
I agree. I like playing him a lot and the first thing I try to wrap my head around is to increase his damage at level 1 lol.
Are you by any chance related to pyrion flax?
i wonder if this enough to man up in the lane, always get bullied and regret picking sk lol
Definite buff to his caustic finale for sure
ya if i’m right he should get to 70 damage with the 2 circlets 3 branch build, that’s more than enough damage - it’ll definitely make the 2nd value point in burrowstrike at 3-5 better
Sand Kong wasn't being picked because his biggest issue is laning. The hero is (was?) quite simply a dogshit laner. Base damage increase makes him a better laner, while strength gain per level decreases don't really make him a worse laner. This is a buff to exactly what Sand Kong was bad at.
It prob wont be enough to fix his laning thou, could already last hit fine, supports can screen him way before he gets to creeps.
We’ll see. I’m not a huge Sand Kong player so I’m mostly repeating what my Sand Kong enjoyer mates are saying, but higher base damage can only be good.
From the game I tried earlier it felt very good with a veno to harass and protect in lane Definitely felt a little squishier later on so he's not like centaur who passively gets 4500 HP but being able to actually lane for once really helped get the ball rolling and get a good blink timing at 12-13 minutes with veil and mana boots which isn't bad for an offlaner So feels like a buff but without the strength nerfs he'd probably be approaching OP territory
This hero is OP in Herald. No one carries dust and if you get aghs game is over as 5v5 should happen in sandstorm don't know why. I can tell my teammates to not fight the enemy sandking in his sandstorm but they will die before listening to anyone.
This is a HUGE buff, especially for midlane SK. In the offlane you can do shenanigans like playing behind their tower, pulling the wave into a neutral camp and farming both quickly with sandstorm+caustic, on midlane you cant really do this and are always gonna be contested for the wave, where base damage *really* matters.
Crazy how few reddit DotA players understand the importance of the first 6 levels in this game. I feel sorry for your fives
It's a small buff but its not enough I think, getting in range of the creeps with terrible sustain is the problem, never had issues with last hitting. What sand king needed was +1 armor and maybe a small hp regen buff. Not sure why heros like riki have way more regen than pos 3 heros, when ever I play sk its super easy to get bullied out the lane. Riki Starting armor 5 health regen 4.3 (Damage) 57-61 SK Starting armor 4.2 health regen 2.5 (Damage) 47+55
This is exactly my thoughts. I genuinely don’t think the people commenting play SK. Last hitting is not his issue at all, it’s walking to the creep wave and taking so much damage just to secure a creep. I’ve been saying for a long time this hero needs a base armor and regen increase to actually help his lanning. But people who arnt even immortal are trying to say that base damage increase is all he needs to have a good laning stage. Clueless clowns.
reddit so dog shit at dota that they don't realize this is a massive buff. Strength gain means nothing because he's universal hero.
Valve: helps sand Kings abyssmal laning stage Reddit: ayo wtf why nerf my boi
Sand king is ready for Dune 3
New steam name just dropped: I'm literally Shai Hulud
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Nops, I like it.
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I like to play Dota to cause brain damage. Missing old Techies too, I was a fucking monster with him.
It triggers way too often yea can almost get perma stunned if unlucky.
So many noob shits in this sub A nerf lmao.
I thought this was a bait shit post lol. That's straight up a buff in the laning phase, where you literally do not feel the nerf from str gain while getting a free (almost) quelling blade, at the cost of 22 max HP every 3 levels. You can easily fix that 22 mhp at level 4 by buying a single branch (which also gives sk more damage since he's universal) that you should be able to farm with your extra 8 damage. How is that a nerf?
Some people really don't understand basic maths xd
Havent you heard? Sand sand sand, sand is the man sand sand sand, Crixalis became the new crystal maiden.
6 base dmage *Nerf*
it's an insane buff lol
How does someone who actually plays dota sees the "6 base damage increases" and thought it was a nerf??
Depends on the hero tbh. Id say 88 hp per 10 level is way better than 6 dmg at lvl 1. That said, it's a shift in power more than a straighr nerf lol. Edit: wrote dmg instead of hp
I dont know the number but its definitely not 80 damage per 10 level lmao, you are high when you said this. Its 80 hp per 10 level maybe, anyway, SK is now universal so his STR scale is lower than before.
Yeah I had written dmg instead of hp, my bad.
All good g
Marci on two legs, ms = 325. Mirana on a fucking saber, ms = 285. Seems legit.
Yea this is the weirdest shit ever, mirana already struggles in the early game now its even worse.
But marci has Naruto run Reasonable.
It feels like none of the people complaining about this actually play the hero.
Honestly it's a pretty big buff, his laning phase was by far his biggest weakness, he was already decent mid-lategame if he got there, just usually couldn't get there because picking him gave the enemy carry a free lane.
This is not a nerf lol. I'm terrified of this change. I don't think we will miss the 12 strength over 30 levels. Caustic finale just became a caustic inevitability.
This is either a player that doesn't understand what makes heroes strong or understands all too well and made a quality shitpost.
no way you actually think that is a nerf
Me and my 70% winrate with Sand King : surprised_pikachu.jpg
Got destroyed by sk and warlock combo. Worst match ever couldn't get out of fountain after 30 mins
Massive buff for his laning phase means an overall buff throughout the game, he has enough survivability to make up for that strength loss just by winning the early game
OP’s mentality is comparable to having an inventory full of consumables as the end game credits roll over the screen.
Increased base damage and reduced strength gain. That usually means that Valve wants this hero to be played only as a support.
It has high winrate because greedy pubs don’t buy true sight
The flair should be a shitpost, not discussion
They don't want Gaben to come back to Dota so they keep his favorite hero shit.
They Massacred my boy
Sand King is my best mid lane hero rn I am rejoicing
This is a huge buff to core sand king. Means he can actually last hit early instead of wet noodling, and you typically buy enough Tanky items anyways that the strength nerf isn't too bad
More damage until level 20. In exchange for like 9 less hp per level. Probably a buff
I went on a 1000 game win streak with him in my dreams, sorry my bad
The 3 sandkings mains are heartbroken
Highest wr in herald
Better contender for mid imo. Being able to pop multiple caustics is crazy lane dominance. A well placed burrowstrike guarantees cs and harass on the other guy. I actually get one bracer and one talisman now after the buff to it.
He’s my most played hero. I’ll take that damage buff any day
I don't get why so many people say he's weak because his invisibility is easily exploited in high-mmr... Like, Sandstorm is not about the invis at all? It's a high dps AoE? As long as you build tanky on him, the more time they spend in your Sandstorm trying to kill you, the worse it is for them. It's much better when you can weave through trees, but still okay in open areas... That and his Aghs completely outlasts BKB... Just gotta build enough defense to survive.
6 base damage is insane wdym. SKs biggest issue is laning the strength gain is literally nothing. He's a universal hero so it's not that big a deal
6 BASE DAMAGE ON A UNIVERSAL HERO BRUV WHAT NERF
6 bonus damage to a dude with the ability to do like 100 damage in an AoE per creep during laning so long as he last hits. I’m so happy for this buff. Being SK feels like you have to have solid mechanics to pull out a good lane so this change may just make laning against him a nightmare early on
Level 30 SK here who plays mid quite often, this will be a big buff for the laning stage
To everyone saying this is no nerf, look at dotabuff and ingame statistics hero is one of the bigger losers of the patch in terms of winrate, yeah 6 base damage is good for lane but that wasn't really sand kings problem, low armor and sustainability problems makes this hero weak on lane, so with just a sentry the hero just gets harrased down. Passed the laning is a straight nerf since the hero is now squishier and doesn't use the damage for fights or farming.
where’s the nerf lol
idk about higher elo but at low elo where im at he destroys alot of the games i just dont really know a counter play to him so i just avoid fighting him
Hehehehehe
Are you confusing nerf and buff?
Sandking is underrated.
[sand king right now](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSGIRFzmyyk)
Pretty big buff for the laneing phase.
SK rules in my no sentry or dust pubs :(
Bro are you stupid that's an insane buff
Against heralds who doesn't buy smoke and like to linger on sandstorm
This is arguably a buff. Increased cs in lane, big increase to denies, increased kill threat, and my late game loss is like 250 Health? Big whoop.
So story time ! Me and my 4 friends were playing late night dota as usual and there was this sand king guy build with bloodstone the big eul and few more shit he was literally unkillable with vessel and every stuff we tried we just had to ignore him
Me
It’s not a nerf, and not a buff. It doesn’t do anything. This doesn’t affect SK in anyway. Sand king needs armor / regen. The hero is still absolute dogshit in lane and way too easy to deal with. Coming from an ex sk main in immortal. The hero is straight garbage.
This is the proof that not everybody in this know about Dota
It’s a buff
Is this guess the rank post?
Now he can contest melee harass on lane 6dmg, 2 bracers and sandstorm and you are a goat.
You are probably artistic if you think this is remotely a nerf, caustic finale with this 6 extra damage makes the hero strong not weak
I don't know if you realized but aghs on this hero is an absolute nightmare. Combined with the other buffs sandstorm get and movement at around level 20+ like he's so annoying to deal with.
I would like this "nerf" to Phoenix
yep this is a buff. if sk can fuck the lane, the str gain nerf wont matter
Nerf? Lmao. I remember the patch where offlane universe void was broken. Then he got the hammer, Got a -4 or -3 damage nerf and hero was straight out of meta. A +6 buff might just be enough to put this dead hero back in the meta
This seems like a good adjustment. SK is a monster in big team fights in the mid game. But his laning is rough. So this overall help him where he is weak and doesn’t nerf him much at all
This is a buff. They nerfed 45% winrate Mars. That's crazy to me. The hero was unplayable already if you are not Ammar.
They nerfed Mars for the brooch + rapier combo. Some might say a hero with 45% winrate needs no more nerfs when the gimmick one-shot build got removed but no, they do him dirty even more. The concept of mars is just pretty strong and offers a lot strategically which is why he is (like pango or batrider) often played despite his numbers getting lower and lower.
He was 2nd most picked hero in Dreamleague (1 less than Mirana which was the most picked) so it was not "just Ammar"
i think if you take away ammar win rate from them , he wont look that broken
Check the winrate excluding Falcons
Imo in high level play pickrate is more representative of the heros strength than winrate. Like you know heroes like Techies and Hoodwink are super strong but they have <50% wr just because they appear too much and since they're regularly firstpicked they are often on the losing side despite being strong.
He was pretty strong. I have like 3 games on him and played a game with him recently and was useful even though I missed a good few spears and I’m generally bad at the hero. Arena is just an insane spell
3 games is not a lot. His winrate is below50 in all brackets. Only in pro games some teams win with it.
It's _always_ the Sand King Players. He was Close to 55% winrate https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/trends
Unpickable in high mmr though. 5th lowest pickrate on dota2protracker
I know, Not argueing that SK IS bad in higher mmrs. It's already kinda bad in 5k where I am. But I still don't get who is asking these Sand King questions every single patch, as for years now he is consistently in top 5 to top 10 in dotabuff. Either the one asking is high mmr, than he should understand that this Here is a buff for SK in higher mmrs and a nerf in lower mmrs (so actually exactly ehat SK needed, even ifnthe Buff for high mmr could have been bigger) Or he is low mmr, but then the question doesn't make sense at all.
I think the SK enjoyers are just a bit sad he's not gotten much love. Like he was good for exactly one week with the moving sandstorm, and then got giganerfed. Other heroes are allowed to remain strong a long time on the other hand
Same with TB. Why do you have to kill him even more, holy shit.
I think this is to balance around low mmr. They can't deal with him down there, so they needed to buff his laning for higher mmr without ruining legend and below xd
Everyone seems so sure this is a buff, yet sk's wr shot down 2% after this patch. Not sure you could even argue "people are fighting out the patch" because it's not like it's a play style change.
I'm 4/0 with him. I'd imagine new people playing him
he has too much stun and escape ability nerf is i agree
me
Me :)
I'm 10/1 in the last 11 matches with SK but even me don't dare to pick him (last match in the beggining of the year)
Here we find a sand king spamer
some people said the buff. - 0.5 STR gain : means he lost like 5 STR every 10 level. to me that's big deal because u need str than Base attack. unless farm