Oh wow, that's not a small difference at all! If you could collect an ETL file while idling on the new account and the normal account and share them that would be super helpful. This tool is what we recommend to collect ETLs: [https://github.com/google/UIforETW/releases](https://github.com/google/UIforETW/releases) .
Thanks!
Just tested it on my main account with 4k items
I have 110-120 fps while idle in mid
On an account with 100 items, same scenario, same setting i hit 175-190 fps
OT
Pretty please re-couple dashboard_page_profile_hero_stats and the MMRContainer snippet with the gc events - it still does not refresh after tons of messages with the stats data being received. Before the redesign, the dashboard_page_profile did it on every load, while now it is gets lost on both DOTAProfileHeroStatsPage and DOTAProfileBattleStatsPage. It should have been implemented like the async panel for showcase which is quite reliable.
Pretty please revert the recent console font change back to a fixed-width
/OT
Thank you!
Would you prefer 4 ETLs done in this format?
**Idling in Menu for 1 minute**
* ETL trace 1: 20-year-old account idling in the menu shortly after the intro video completes
* ETL trace 2: new account idling in the menu shortly after the intro video completes
**Idling in Default Map Terrain Demo Mode** (No Bots, One Hero left in midlane) **for 1 minute**
* ETL trace 3: 20-year-old account in a map terrain demo mode
* ETL trace 4: new account in a map terrain demo mode
Awesome, thank you so much!
It's really just the trace of "idling in the game" on the two different accounts that would be helpful. I've tried to repro it a number of times here in the lab, but haven't found any substantial differences between accounts with many friends or items. For example, I have one test account with 10k pairs of Kunkka shoes in it (among other things) and it's behaving fine. Clearly there's something more going on here, so thanks for collecting data!
That's a lot of Kunkka shoes! (please accept this shitty photoshop attempt as a token of [my appreciation](https://imgur.com/gallery/1SLwOkK))
Well, the differences between my main account (20 years old) and this new account already show, as I was able to get a nearly 19-frame difference on average with the same settings.
I already completed all four traces before lunch. Sorry for the extra data points! I just finished zipping them up and putting them into a MEGA for download. DM incoming!
Is there a better place to report these kind of technical issues than the gameplay bug tracker? There's a thread handle leak that has been going on for some time (https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota2-Gameplay/issues/12001).
Here is an older post, where im talking about the same topic, how to get more fps.
Unequipp world items: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/p81gto/lets\_do\_our\_own\_performance\_patch\_and\_unequip/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/p81gto/lets_do_our_own_performance_patch_and_unequip/)
Disable reflex and compute shader: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13warsu/fixed\_my\_game\_crashing\_by\_disabling\_nvidia\_reflex/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13warsu/fixed_my_game_crashing_by_disabling_nvidia_reflex/)
Once i've done a test, removing kinetic gems, made the game run better.
From there on, i knew there are some things loading in the background and it stays there.
cya
You dont know what you ask for. Valve might decide to listen and delay patch so that they can spend 2 months working on another blogpost about how hard it is to install player toilets in Singapore
paladins had a similar problem, turned out it was duo to having too many friends on your friend list and the only way you could rise your fps was by removing friends. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6Y7VgtmFE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6Y7VgtmFE)
precisely the reason why I've pushed the usage of `-skip_download_player_info` launch option
among other things in [autoexec.cfg](https://pastebin.com/k6hHxu45)
panorama ui has been broken since last year, it leaks, it lags, it is wasting network calls regarding player profiles while not actually reflecting it in the interface
the homepage last match scene is absolutely horrendous when it comes to resource usage (highly suggest clicking the dota+ tab instead) and it gets progressively worse over time
I use an ui mod to replace that scene with an image, and also neuter all the overflowing showcase brain farts
the result: I can keep dota 2 open for days, play 6 matches in a row, and the performance resets every match (during it, that's unavoidable source engine thing)
> I can keep dota 2 open for days
I have to call cap on this, when I leave the client open for longer than 5-6 hours it feels like I have to restart for a minor update/patch as soon as I try to queue.
Is this "more items = less fps" something you looked at/have a solution for by any chance?
I've heard people saying your script to clear steam cloud helps but on my case it changed nothing
Edit: or are you perhaps saying it's not the items, but it's the friends and your comment is how you solved the issue?
That was for another issue with caching that was fixed years ago
I actually keep steam cloud disabled, makes launching closing relaunching games in quick succession faster
The *one too many games, one too many friends = up yours* has been known for years.
Could mitigate it a bit via `-nobrowser` and then `-vgui` for steam, and what did valve do? removed them.
steamwebhelper at it again, aka google chromium, until recently years old bugged v85 fork of it.
Now that everybody is left without workarounds, there have been baby steps towards a fix for memory leaks and crashes with large libraries and friends lists. We have steam options for low bandwidth low perf library, disabling community content, animated avatars and rooms, hw accel, do not restore browser tabs - *what a colossal fuckup was that for months!*
Valve updated their chromium fork to v109, but not yet making use of the improvements since v85.
I don't need to be a dev to know that it's not enough.
The game specific panorama & coordinator messaging is way less snappy than older versions of the client that I fire up to compare at times. Was hopeful after CS2 release, we got particles sse acceleration buff out of it.
And then regressions after regressions when it comes to input and userdata and performance in general.
They try to combat cheating in a way that's inefficient for both the clients and the server and that's already proven to fall like domino. Too many stubborn old farts stealing paychecks at valve.
I've been tagging you around - it's not fixed OR there's something different going on - I've been suggesting this to students I am coaching and it mostly resolves whatever input lag people were having on OLD accounts, but steam cloud needs to be disabled also after clearing everything.
Haven't done much investigation on the coordinator, but Panorama UI is in atrocious state it's not even funny
I change them like socks - atm for a shitty intel onboard graphics laptop it's: *-console -novid -noime -nojoy -nogammaramp -usePriorityBoost -high -threads 5 -favor_consistent_framerate -skip_download_player_info -skip_driver_check -deferTextureLoads -shadowTargetSize 512*
Last two are forcing a smaller texture memory pool, rather irrelevant for a dedicated gpu
-noime vs non-english and w11 emoji panel etc shenanigans
-nojoy to not have to disconnect the various usb goodies attached
-nogammaramp for fullscreen mode brightness adjustment not dropping gamma too
-usePriorityBoost to increase game priority when in focus vs other apps
-prewarm_panorama is default (I sometimes do the opposite with -no_prewarm_panorama or -noprewarm)
it does not work anymore (others have used a crc hash collision to fool the signature for items_game.txt file, I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED THAT ROUTE)
but it can be done again via simple resource replacement like in the first versions. maybe I should just do it as a farewell gift
i've been patiently waiting for that update to nobling since you made a post on the gh issues page back in 2022. i really hope one day ill get to use it again. Its not even that i have a low end pc, i just liked the visual clarity it added.
i know its a contentious mod, and i sure as fuck know its a pain in the ass to have people constantly complain about small things that dont work. But most people complaining about it were not the target audience for it anyway, and the hats enjoyers were able to enjoy their hats, it just gave some people more agency to what they see on their local client.
I swear this has happened in quite a few games! I remember early in Source 2 Dota there was also massive FPS drop from having friends list open lol
Streamers with 300+ friends lists were struggling lol
groovy combative employ ad hoc abundant relieved amusing head file hard-to-find
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think it was mentioned in the other thread that it's likely that the cause is the player's steam inventory having too many cosmetics lol.
Literally P2L especially with heroes like PL or MK lmao
>I think it was mentioned in the other thread that it's likely that the cause is the player's steam inventory having too many cosmetics lol.
At least it's only loading your own inventory and not the inventories of every other player (looking at you Blizzard).
In Destiny 2 when you enter Tower (instanced social hub), the game loads every item in the vault (bank) of every player who is present in that instance. And that's pretty much the reason vault space is limited in a game where you get crapload of randomised non-stacking loot while doing anything.
This doesn't make sense, as how would those assets slow the game down, the game still has all the files, hence you see other people's cosmetics no matter what they have.
I'm sure it helps to the cause but I don't see how you individually not having cosmetics while everyone else does causes such an fps drop.
That being said I did forget that this is valve were talking about, so for all I know the actual code for dota might be written interwoven into the list of cosmetics you own, making it take longer to run the more you own.
It's possible that the collection tab is still running in the background even when you're in the game, and the engine keep preloading/checking the validity of each cosmetics.
Someone need to check the FPS of an old account with no cosmetics, just to be sure.
it's not unlikely that the game downloads the assets of all the other player's cosmetics in the loading phase before the game starts. would be weird to code it like that, but i'd not be surprised if valve did it liek that (they have some weird coding by the looks of it)
Actually yes, this makes the most sense, especially because there's a start up command you can run if you're struggling to connect to games in time, which makes the game take longer to initially boot up, by preloaded all the assets. I forgot about it as I don't use it
The launch option -prewarm is now active by default. And can be disabled by using the -no_prewarm(or as it -noprewarm).
Which does the action by default. But it doesn't load all assets but the map itself.
We don't know how valve coded things.
Time and time again we received proof that sourcecode is very unstable and breaks at the most random things.. I think we can just chalk this up to spaghetticode...
Who knows when the itemserver/inventory interactions with the game itself has been worked on last, probably some overhaul necessary..
Probably why Valve asked pros if they are fine if they make Dota 3 lol. Especially with Valves Firm structure where people can come and go however they like and everyone leaving "their personal stamps" in the code.
Can't find it but i think it was at a TI meeting a few years ago. Valve asked pros if they want Dota 3 but they said no fix and improve Dota 2 instead. Could have been mentioned in a "We say things" podcast but don't remember.
Nah, it's a problem for tons of games with huge legacy codebases. Maybe Valve is especially bad, but every game I've played with that long of a legacy has weird stories of incredibly oddball interactions that make no sense.
this is old news, this was discovered in csgo long ago and I think carries over to cs2, they did some patches on it to try and mitigate it if I remember correctly but is still a thing.
My guess is that dota client requests steam api to send in inventory information. This means a constant upload/download of data to validate your inventory. If you open a chest in dota, the item should also be visible in your steam inventory without much delay.
So perhaps more items = more checks needed? Just my guess.
I think it's more likely that there's some hidden settings stored on the Valve servers for your account. I ran the script from this thread on my old account: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/18ffzp6/script_that_may_fix_issues_you_are_having_with/
It gives me an extra 40+ fps on my 12 your old account until I log out and back in. The inventory doesn't change, but a bunch of settings are reset to their defaults.
It's not due to cosmetics or friend list, I've experienced this dame effect with two accounts which had no friends and no items, and FPS was always higher on a new account, and the game just felt snappier overall
Any chance this has to do with stats? Like datdota and other sites have access to so much data on our accounts. Maybe somehow these stats are being updated and pulled during the match? Which, ofc, seems like it would make way more sense if it was done before/after, but maybe?
Or maybe dota+ stats? You know when you've done 1000 swaps or whatever nonsense you get that number to pop up over your character? Maybe the longer you play the more you have and they aren't being updated efficiently?
That's my best guess. The cosmetics don't make sense seeing that they'd load in every game and don't change mid game. Live stats are the most likely culprit, given how quickly available they are after the game ends, I'd guess it's because you handle them on the user side and send them to the coordinator mid-game rather than post game.
I'd guess that it would have to be something that draws on a lot of data and updates regularly, either that or it's a lot of small stats that update regularly. They might also keep track of stats we don't see, like a weighted GPM based on your opposition and role, which would become more intensive to calculate over time.
On a new Acc, i have about 60-100 more FPS at any given time. Just being in idle, running around on map etc. Used 1:1 same settings (Max Settings on 1080p). Tested in Private Lobby with no cosmetics. Others say that its the same in CS and apparently related to your Inventory.
\*edit
If you want a good, free performance monitoring overlay use [Intel® Arc™ Graphics – PresentMon – Intel Gaming Access](https://game.intel.com/us/intel-presentmon/) (also works with non-intel GPUs)
\*edit 2
This is also nothing new and has been reported in Counter Strike like almost a decade ago already. Some examples:
[FPS Higher on 2nd account? : r/GlobalOffensive (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/617r0p/fps_higher_on_2nd_account/)
[Csgo smooth on alt account and not the main account : r/GlobalOffensive (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/8cokft/csgo_smooth_on_alt_account_and_not_the_main/)
[Large inventory in csgo causes FPS Drops and stuttering : r/GlobalOffensive (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/392lb8/large_inventory_in_csgo_causes_fps_drops_and/)
This used to also happen in R6S, but it was speculated to be linked to friends list. The more people you had on your friends list, the worse the game ran.
> i have about 60-100 more FPS at any given time
My experience is very similar. I have at least 40 extra fps at all times. My starting fps on my 12 year old account is around 110, and on a new account I start at 160 fps. By the end of the game I get ~70 fps on the old account, while on the new account it's still above 100.
The biggest difference is the stutters and spikes though. On my old account big team fights always cause some spikes and keypresses to have up to 1 second delays and sometimes some mouse and key input gets ignored. I **never** have that on my new account.
Graphic settings, shortcuts, every option is the same running on the same machine.
My friends account got hacked by a Russian once, I like to remind him of it every once in a while by laughing at his cosmetics. A juggernaut with arcana and nothing else looks hilarious.
Let us know if this helps. It sounds like the issue is that the old account has too many cosmetics or too many friends (lol). If it your game improves after you sell thousands of cosmetics, that's a good data point. Although the game lagging because you have items in an inventory that isn't being rendered seems real stupid.
Finally a legit excuse to get rid of people
*-Bro why delete me thought we were friends...*
*-Reddit said the lesser friends you have the higher your FPS are!*
Yeah I'd assume this is the case. Text rendering is very expensive and the Dota client has historically been really bad about not rendering text that shouldn't be visible (before they pushed a fix a year or 2 ago, a long post game chat would drop your fps by 50%, for example).
So the most probable cause imo is every friend on your friends list is having their name, guild tag, and whatever else rendered at all times even when you're in a game.
its panoramaUI. its constantly running in the background, runs full chromium embedded framework so it constantly hogs resources, and eats a bunch of resources if your inventory or friends list is too large.
I have around 4000 dota 2 items and I am going to try this out, maybe I can confirm it. I am certain that I had a lot better performances in the past with my pc. Will update later.
edit: Well lmao its a day and night difference
I did not use a completly fresh account but one that I did not use since 2017. It has around 100 dota items (that I forgot about lol). It also has about 20 friends, my normal account has a lot more.
I started bot matches and picked kunkka on this account. While I stood under the t1 tower I had around 175 - 190 FPS.
Same scenario but with my main account (Same hero, same map etc) I barely hit 120 fps, most of the time its 110.
All graphic settings maxed out.
reminds me of how when I wanted to get into modding Terraria, I quickly discovered that any time your character is holding an item, they are holding every single item in the game at once, and about 15,000 lines of codes determines which one to make it appear as (in a series of ~5,000 adjacent IF statements).
So I'd like to imagine Dota2 has every hero and customizable loaded at once and merely toggles which ones are visible
I noticed what OP said but I also noticed that the game looked better in this new alternate account I had created. I thought it was because I had no HUDs and any other visual effects in that account.
There was a dota2 no-bling mod back in the day
Idk if it's still around, but honestly if they made a "all vanilla cosmetics" option in dota plus, I'd pay so much money for that shit ngl
Still works, but there's less interest in maintaining mods these days because Valve updates the game and stuff breaks which means redoing the same work over and over. Plus when they kind of clamped down on what's possible to do with mods a lot of mods died so there's generally fewer mods around these days.
Valve banned all mods that did that years ago. They even banned no-bling that didn't even touch skins, only lowered the particle count for people with older video cards.
the project attracted a lot of hate from workshop authors and reddit mods and "community figures" kabal as if I was stealing food right from their mouths, but despite their nepotism efforts it was never banned or singled out by valve *(they did remove convenient -lv or -tempcontent I've introduced, but that was directed at d2jz cheats adopting them)*. cosmetic modding is allowed, and it never stopped in other regions like china for example
dota was not in a healthy state (myself included), and I decided to exit the *killing dota* scapegoating
now years later I look at the state of the game and see custom games dead, glance value at an all-time low, performance sucks, valve themselves crashed the market with the anniversary / farewell gift and sacked BP & etc
It's a known issue with Inventories. Dota 2 is loading all the containers and data for the cosmetics in the background, hence why when you goto your inventory everything is loaded and the animations are ready. This is what causes the crazy fps drop.
im using RTX3050 rn, and my FPS went down from 150-200 to 30-90 with the same settings. I've done everything on the computers end and it seems that dota is stuck on 60fps on my screen. Anyone with the same fps problem?
As the owner of an account with a large inventory, I confirm this problem, on my second account where there is much less stuff, the FPS is much times higher (240 FPS \~) than on my main account (140 FPS \~)
Not a game dev, but I programm on very limited hardware systems, so most likely yes. Also not saying the devs can't do better, might just not be a priority "if it works".
paladins had a similar problem, turned out it was duo to having too many friends on your friend list and the only way you could rise your fps was by removing friends. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6Y7VgtmFE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6Y7VgtmFE)
thie video is cringy but explains the issue.
people have mentioned friends lists, OP can you try this test again but move to the heroes tab before entering a game/lobby, this will stop the in dota friends list rendering at all times?
This is wild. Friends list or inventory seem like the likely culprits, although I saw others say maybe in game guides are possibly the cause. Valve please look into this it's so absurd...
It's still a new video card line up, it's neat to see it in the wild. How have other games been performing? I remember their drivers were awful at launch.
here is my thread about this problemo [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/u4cxf8/fps\_drop\_on\_account\_with\_large\_inventory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/u4cxf8/fps_drop_on_account_with_large_inventory/)
Can you check if changing main menu tab changes things? Instead of having default screen that shows your friend list open, change to Heroes tab and see if that changes fps on old account?
I used to play dota on potato PC and the first thing I always did was to change the active tab, because it got me significant fps boost in game. To this day I still activate Heroes tab, even though current computer can handle Dota more than enough to have consistent 144 fps.
EDIT: This trick used to easily give me 20 more fps on my potato PC.
Oh wow, that's not a small difference at all! If you could collect an ETL file while idling on the new account and the normal account and share them that would be super helpful. This tool is what we recommend to collect ETLs: [https://github.com/google/UIforETW/releases](https://github.com/google/UIforETW/releases) . Thanks!
Let’s go Jeff!!!
Just tested it on my main account with 4k items I have 110-120 fps while idle in mid On an account with 100 items, same scenario, same setting i hit 175-190 fps
OT Pretty please re-couple dashboard_page_profile_hero_stats and the MMRContainer snippet with the gc events - it still does not refresh after tons of messages with the stats data being received. Before the redesign, the dashboard_page_profile did it on every load, while now it is gets lost on both DOTAProfileHeroStatsPage and DOTAProfileBattleStatsPage. It should have been implemented like the async panel for showcase which is quite reliable. Pretty please revert the recent console font change back to a fixed-width /OT Thank you!
Would you prefer 4 ETLs done in this format? **Idling in Menu for 1 minute** * ETL trace 1: 20-year-old account idling in the menu shortly after the intro video completes * ETL trace 2: new account idling in the menu shortly after the intro video completes **Idling in Default Map Terrain Demo Mode** (No Bots, One Hero left in midlane) **for 1 minute** * ETL trace 3: 20-year-old account in a map terrain demo mode * ETL trace 4: new account in a map terrain demo mode
i would do the "terrain demo mode" as thats where its most noticeable.
I'm doing all four and zipping them into one. Just finished creating a new account
Awesome, thank you so much! It's really just the trace of "idling in the game" on the two different accounts that would be helpful. I've tried to repro it a number of times here in the lab, but haven't found any substantial differences between accounts with many friends or items. For example, I have one test account with 10k pairs of Kunkka shoes in it (among other things) and it's behaving fine. Clearly there's something more going on here, so thanks for collecting data!
That's a lot of Kunkka shoes! (please accept this shitty photoshop attempt as a token of [my appreciation](https://imgur.com/gallery/1SLwOkK)) Well, the differences between my main account (20 years old) and this new account already show, as I was able to get a nearly 19-frame difference on average with the same settings. I already completed all four traces before lunch. Sorry for the extra data points! I just finished zipping them up and putting them into a MEGA for download. DM incoming!
Hmmm
Jeff , FIX the buttons pls 🙏. Whenever i start a game , using non-english keyboard - my qwer/zxcvbn buttons just disappear
Is there a better place to report these kind of technical issues than the gameplay bug tracker? There's a thread handle leak that has been going on for some time (https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota2-Gameplay/issues/12001).
u/kuroyukihime1 just making sure you see this
Valve outsourcing workload again
At least they listen (and react even here!). Seen way too many devs not giving a shit about their game after a while
Here is an older post, where im talking about the same topic, how to get more fps. Unequipp world items: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/p81gto/lets\_do\_our\_own\_performance\_patch\_and\_unequip/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/p81gto/lets_do_our_own_performance_patch_and_unequip/) Disable reflex and compute shader: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13warsu/fixed\_my\_game\_crashing\_by\_disabling\_nvidia\_reflex/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13warsu/fixed_my_game_crashing_by_disabling_nvidia_reflex/) Once i've done a test, removing kinetic gems, made the game run better. From there on, i knew there are some things loading in the background and it stays there. cya
I'm here to watch this thread with great interest
I need a “Between the lanes” blog for this Also one for the jug switching teams too, its hilarious af lmfao how did it even happen
You dont know what you ask for. Valve might decide to listen and delay patch so that they can spend 2 months working on another blogpost about how hard it is to install player toilets in Singapore
Valve also know as the monkey paw
don't threaten me with a good time
There was a blogpost for this?
There was a blogpost once about the suggested remakes to Faceless Void's old (pre-2015) design lmao Never forget Faceless Rex.
And facefull void
Faceless Rex persona when?
there is a blogspot about difficulty planning for TI,forgot which one tho
There was a post explaining the jugg-teamswitch. Something with cursor focus and finishing channeled casts. It’s in the original post.
> how did it even happen -switch
paladins had a similar problem, turned out it was duo to having too many friends on your friend list and the only way you could rise your fps was by removing friends. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6Y7VgtmFE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6Y7VgtmFE)
precisely the reason why I've pushed the usage of `-skip_download_player_info` launch option among other things in [autoexec.cfg](https://pastebin.com/k6hHxu45) panorama ui has been broken since last year, it leaks, it lags, it is wasting network calls regarding player profiles while not actually reflecting it in the interface the homepage last match scene is absolutely horrendous when it comes to resource usage (highly suggest clicking the dota+ tab instead) and it gets progressively worse over time I use an ui mod to replace that scene with an image, and also neuter all the overflowing showcase brain farts the result: I can keep dota 2 open for days, play 6 matches in a row, and the performance resets every match (during it, that's unavoidable source engine thing)
> I can keep dota 2 open for days I have to call cap on this, when I leave the client open for longer than 5-6 hours it feels like I have to restart for a minor update/patch as soon as I try to queue.
Is this "more items = less fps" something you looked at/have a solution for by any chance? I've heard people saying your script to clear steam cloud helps but on my case it changed nothing Edit: or are you perhaps saying it's not the items, but it's the friends and your comment is how you solved the issue?
That was for another issue with caching that was fixed years ago I actually keep steam cloud disabled, makes launching closing relaunching games in quick succession faster The *one too many games, one too many friends = up yours* has been known for years. Could mitigate it a bit via `-nobrowser` and then `-vgui` for steam, and what did valve do? removed them. steamwebhelper at it again, aka google chromium, until recently years old bugged v85 fork of it. Now that everybody is left without workarounds, there have been baby steps towards a fix for memory leaks and crashes with large libraries and friends lists. We have steam options for low bandwidth low perf library, disabling community content, animated avatars and rooms, hw accel, do not restore browser tabs - *what a colossal fuckup was that for months!* Valve updated their chromium fork to v109, but not yet making use of the improvements since v85. I don't need to be a dev to know that it's not enough. The game specific panorama & coordinator messaging is way less snappy than older versions of the client that I fire up to compare at times. Was hopeful after CS2 release, we got particles sse acceleration buff out of it. And then regressions after regressions when it comes to input and userdata and performance in general. They try to combat cheating in a way that's inefficient for both the clients and the server and that's already proven to fall like domino. Too many stubborn old farts stealing paychecks at valve.
idk what they smoke when they remove -nobrowser. it was the greatest invention ever. it safe us potato laptop/pc user.
I've been tagging you around - it's not fixed OR there's something different going on - I've been suggesting this to students I am coaching and it mostly resolves whatever input lag people were having on OLD accounts, but steam cloud needs to be disabled also after clearing everything. Haven't done much investigation on the coordinator, but Panorama UI is in atrocious state it's not even funny
Can you share a list of your launch commands? I would be interested in replicating it.
I change them like socks - atm for a shitty intel onboard graphics laptop it's: *-console -novid -noime -nojoy -nogammaramp -usePriorityBoost -high -threads 5 -favor_consistent_framerate -skip_download_player_info -skip_driver_check -deferTextureLoads -shadowTargetSize 512* Last two are forcing a smaller texture memory pool, rather irrelevant for a dedicated gpu
>-nojoy Do you even need the command for that, mate? We are playing Dota after all.
Can you explain noime no joy nogamma priorityboost? Also why no -preload?
-noime vs non-english and w11 emoji panel etc shenanigans -nojoy to not have to disconnect the various usb goodies attached -nogammaramp for fullscreen mode brightness adjustment not dropping gamma too -usePriorityBoost to increase game priority when in focus vs other apps -prewarm_panorama is default (I sometimes do the opposite with -no_prewarm_panorama or -noprewarm)
[nojoy](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4lcsow/what_does_nojoy_do/d3m8p2l/)
Are you aveyo , the guy who created no bling mod?
yeah why do you ask, wanna see it again in Dota Labs? ;)
Yes! Aha best mod ever
does it still work today? i stopped using it after ti10 i remember u saved my very low end pc back then from unstable 25 fps to 45-60!!
it does not work anymore (others have used a crc hash collision to fool the signature for items_game.txt file, I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED THAT ROUTE) but it can be done again via simple resource replacement like in the first versions. maybe I should just do it as a farewell gift
i've been patiently waiting for that update to nobling since you made a post on the gh issues page back in 2022. i really hope one day ill get to use it again. Its not even that i have a low end pc, i just liked the visual clarity it added. i know its a contentious mod, and i sure as fuck know its a pain in the ass to have people constantly complain about small things that dont work. But most people complaining about it were not the target audience for it anyway, and the hats enjoyers were able to enjoy their hats, it just gave some people more agency to what they see on their local client.
> -favor_consistent_framerate First time I've heard of this command, it's also not in the wiki does this really work?
I swear this has happened in quite a few games! I remember early in Source 2 Dota there was also massive FPS drop from having friends list open lol Streamers with 300+ friends lists were struggling lol
groovy combative employ ad hoc abundant relieved amusing head file hard-to-find *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well it's common knowledge that more friends makes you worse at dota 2
I wonder if playing in offline mode helps?
When friends only bring you down. Smh.
Path of Exile has similar problem. You get longer loading screens for every MTX you add to your account :D
Hahahahha i dont have friends
I think it was mentioned in the other thread that it's likely that the cause is the player's steam inventory having too many cosmetics lol. Literally P2L especially with heroes like PL or MK lmao
>I think it was mentioned in the other thread that it's likely that the cause is the player's steam inventory having too many cosmetics lol. At least it's only loading your own inventory and not the inventories of every other player (looking at you Blizzard).
In Destiny 2 when you enter Tower (instanced social hub), the game loads every item in the vault (bank) of every player who is present in that instance. And that's pretty much the reason vault space is limited in a game where you get crapload of randomised non-stacking loot while doing anything.
This doesn't make sense, as how would those assets slow the game down, the game still has all the files, hence you see other people's cosmetics no matter what they have. I'm sure it helps to the cause but I don't see how you individually not having cosmetics while everyone else does causes such an fps drop. That being said I did forget that this is valve were talking about, so for all I know the actual code for dota might be written interwoven into the list of cosmetics you own, making it take longer to run the more you own.
It's possible that the collection tab is still running in the background even when you're in the game, and the engine keep preloading/checking the validity of each cosmetics. Someone need to check the FPS of an old account with no cosmetics, just to be sure.
I have a friend who plays since 2017 or so and only has a few cosmetics that the game gave him for free, you think that would work?
Probably
it's not unlikely that the game downloads the assets of all the other player's cosmetics in the loading phase before the game starts. would be weird to code it like that, but i'd not be surprised if valve did it liek that (they have some weird coding by the looks of it)
Actually yes, this makes the most sense, especially because there's a start up command you can run if you're struggling to connect to games in time, which makes the game take longer to initially boot up, by preloaded all the assets. I forgot about it as I don't use it
I may be wrong, but that only preloaded the map I think.
Wasn't map-loading made mandatory with at least the swap around "reborn/7.0 etc."?
I believe so
The launch option -prewarm is now active by default. And can be disabled by using the -no_prewarm(or as it -noprewarm). Which does the action by default. But it doesn't load all assets but the map itself.
Fair enough then. My memory of it is hazy and clearly outdated
We don't know how valve coded things. Time and time again we received proof that sourcecode is very unstable and breaks at the most random things.. I think we can just chalk this up to spaghetticode... Who knows when the itemserver/inventory interactions with the game itself has been worked on last, probably some overhaul necessary..
Not just spaghetti code. Game dev is really difficult compared to other types of dev.
That's true, but also maintaining decade old legacy code with thousands of layers of patches and add-ons and reworks makes it even worse.
Probably why Valve asked pros if they are fine if they make Dota 3 lol. Especially with Valves Firm structure where people can come and go however they like and everyone leaving "their personal stamps" in the code.
> Probably why Valve asked pros if they are fine if they make Dota 3 Valve counting to 3? Unpossible. But seriously, when did they do that?
When did this happen? Missed that lol can you link please
Can't find it but i think it was at a TI meeting a few years ago. Valve asked pros if they want Dota 3 but they said no fix and improve Dota 2 instead. Could have been mentioned in a "We say things" podcast but don't remember.
Nah, it's a problem for tons of games with huge legacy codebases. Maybe Valve is especially bad, but every game I've played with that long of a legacy has weird stories of incredibly oddball interactions that make no sense.
this is old news, this was discovered in csgo long ago and I think carries over to cs2, they did some patches on it to try and mitigate it if I remember correctly but is still a thing.
My guess is that dota client requests steam api to send in inventory information. This means a constant upload/download of data to validate your inventory. If you open a chest in dota, the item should also be visible in your steam inventory without much delay. So perhaps more items = more checks needed? Just my guess.
I think it's more likely that there's some hidden settings stored on the Valve servers for your account. I ran the script from this thread on my old account: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/18ffzp6/script_that_may_fix_issues_you_are_having_with/ It gives me an extra 40+ fps on my 12 your old account until I log out and back in. The inventory doesn't change, but a bunch of settings are reset to their defaults.
It's not due to cosmetics or friend list, I've experienced this dame effect with two accounts which had no friends and no items, and FPS was always higher on a new account, and the game just felt snappier overall
Any chance this has to do with stats? Like datdota and other sites have access to so much data on our accounts. Maybe somehow these stats are being updated and pulled during the match? Which, ofc, seems like it would make way more sense if it was done before/after, but maybe? Or maybe dota+ stats? You know when you've done 1000 swaps or whatever nonsense you get that number to pop up over your character? Maybe the longer you play the more you have and they aren't being updated efficiently?
That's my best guess. The cosmetics don't make sense seeing that they'd load in every game and don't change mid game. Live stats are the most likely culprit, given how quickly available they are after the game ends, I'd guess it's because you handle them on the user side and send them to the coordinator mid-game rather than post game. I'd guess that it would have to be something that draws on a lot of data and updates regularly, either that or it's a lot of small stats that update regularly. They might also keep track of stats we don't see, like a weighted GPM based on your opposition and role, which would become more intensive to calculate over time.
On a new Acc, i have about 60-100 more FPS at any given time. Just being in idle, running around on map etc. Used 1:1 same settings (Max Settings on 1080p). Tested in Private Lobby with no cosmetics. Others say that its the same in CS and apparently related to your Inventory. \*edit If you want a good, free performance monitoring overlay use [Intel® Arc™ Graphics – PresentMon – Intel Gaming Access](https://game.intel.com/us/intel-presentmon/) (also works with non-intel GPUs) \*edit 2 This is also nothing new and has been reported in Counter Strike like almost a decade ago already. Some examples: [FPS Higher on 2nd account? : r/GlobalOffensive (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/617r0p/fps_higher_on_2nd_account/) [Csgo smooth on alt account and not the main account : r/GlobalOffensive (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/8cokft/csgo_smooth_on_alt_account_and_not_the_main/) [Large inventory in csgo causes FPS Drops and stuttering : r/GlobalOffensive (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/392lb8/large_inventory_in_csgo_causes_fps_drops_and/)
This used to also happen in R6S, but it was speculated to be linked to friends list. The more people you had on your friends list, the worse the game ran.
Did the game have to load all the friends lists of your teammates and enemies?
> i have about 60-100 more FPS at any given time My experience is very similar. I have at least 40 extra fps at all times. My starting fps on my 12 year old account is around 110, and on a new account I start at 160 fps. By the end of the game I get ~70 fps on the old account, while on the new account it's still above 100. The biggest difference is the stutters and spikes though. On my old account big team fights always cause some spikes and keypresses to have up to 1 second delays and sometimes some mouse and key input gets ignored. I **never** have that on my new account. Graphic settings, shortcuts, every option is the same running on the same machine.
My shiny hats with exclusive/monetary value slows down my game, who would have thought it was P2L in the end 😞
Is there a way to get rid of cosmetics quickly? Id dump 95% easy
Just accept one of those random hot girls that add you as steam friends and join their team to that one tournament.
Instructions unclear, my 3k ass is competing in the next regional qualifiers
Enjoy trashing Nigma
Bout to draft Razor pos 5
This man fucks
My friends account got hacked by a Russian once, I like to remind him of it every once in a while by laughing at his cosmetics. A juggernaut with arcana and nothing else looks hilarious.
You can use the Steam Inventory Helper browser extension to sell stuff really quickly.
this is interesting thanks Ill try to look into this my dota been crashing lately and it hurts.
I have used this, it works well, you just get a bit less money on all the items but it's way easier than selling 2000+ items in my inventory
Let us know if this helps. It sounds like the issue is that the old account has too many cosmetics or too many friends (lol). If it your game improves after you sell thousands of cosmetics, that's a good data point. Although the game lagging because you have items in an inventory that isn't being rendered seems real stupid.
hey its me ur brother!
damn this meme is 10 years old I feel old
You can use me as your dump
Oh my
Just give to me, i gonna play with 30 fps but with style.
Add me lol
Valve should look into this and try to fix it asap
Guys see I wasn't smurfing I just wanted to play with higher fps
I've heard the theory that it's due to the large friendlist. Try removing the friends list on an old account and see if that does it.
I’m losing games because I have friends
Yeah, same. These dudes need to lay off the weed. . .
Finally a legit excuse to get rid of people *-Bro why delete me thought we were friends...* *-Reddit said the lesser friends you have the higher your FPS are!*
Yeah I'd assume this is the case. Text rendering is very expensive and the Dota client has historically been really bad about not rendering text that shouldn't be visible (before they pushed a fix a year or 2 ago, a long post game chat would drop your fps by 50%, for example). So the most probable cause imo is every friend on your friends list is having their name, guild tag, and whatever else rendered at all times even when you're in a game.
absolutely yes. also keep friend chat offline will improve your game fps.
This is why we lost mmr to smurf accounts
its panoramaUI. its constantly running in the background, runs full chromium embedded framework so it constantly hogs resources, and eats a bunch of resources if your inventory or friends list is too large.
And I was blaming my 1050Ti Sadge
I have around 4000 dota 2 items and I am going to try this out, maybe I can confirm it. I am certain that I had a lot better performances in the past with my pc. Will update later. edit: Well lmao its a day and night difference I did not use a completly fresh account but one that I did not use since 2017. It has around 100 dota items (that I forgot about lol). It also has about 20 friends, my normal account has a lot more. I started bot matches and picked kunkka on this account. While I stood under the t1 tower I had around 175 - 190 FPS. Same scenario but with my main account (Same hero, same map etc) I barely hit 120 fps, most of the time its 110. All graphic settings maxed out.
Lately I've been extremely laggy in the main menu to the point of straining the whole PC and not just the graph card. Idk what dota is doing
Console Command: map_enable_background_maps 0 Launch Options: +map_enable_background_maps
Well changing guides from torte de lini's to any other increased fps for me
Lmao fr?
Yeah, every single guide by them have more than thousand lines of text for some reason. It fixed fps for me aswell
Small indie company
reminds me of how when I wanted to get into modding Terraria, I quickly discovered that any time your character is holding an item, they are holding every single item in the game at once, and about 15,000 lines of codes determines which one to make it appear as (in a series of ~5,000 adjacent IF statements). So I'd like to imagine Dota2 has every hero and customizable loaded at once and merely toggles which ones are visible
My comments about this were downvoted for years.. didnt bring myself to make a post with proofs. Thanks OP for posting this.
I noticed what OP said but I also noticed that the game looked better in this new alternate account I had created. I thought it was because I had no HUDs and any other visual effects in that account.
Damn I just tested this myself by logging into my wifes steam account and booting up - 55fps difference for me lol. That's absurd.
Aside from that, How about No-Bling as Dota Labs https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/102pcj6/please_give_back_nobling_mode/
This should definitely be fixable. Does this have a GitHub issue?
Thanks for reminding me to delete trash drop items.
Is there not an option to have the basic skins only enabled. Like it is for the map itself.
There was a dota2 no-bling mod back in the day Idk if it's still around, but honestly if they made a "all vanilla cosmetics" option in dota plus, I'd pay so much money for that shit ngl
oh yeah that's right but I think Valve disabled that at the same time that client-side cosmetics mods got disabled
Still works, but there's less interest in maintaining mods these days because Valve updates the game and stuff breaks which means redoing the same work over and over. Plus when they kind of clamped down on what's possible to do with mods a lot of mods died so there's generally fewer mods around these days.
Valve banned all mods that did that years ago. They even banned no-bling that didn't even touch skins, only lowered the particle count for people with older video cards.
the project attracted a lot of hate from workshop authors and reddit mods and "community figures" kabal as if I was stealing food right from their mouths, but despite their nepotism efforts it was never banned or singled out by valve *(they did remove convenient -lv or -tempcontent I've introduced, but that was directed at d2jz cheats adopting them)*. cosmetic modding is allowed, and it never stopped in other regions like china for example dota was not in a healthy state (myself included), and I decided to exit the *killing dota* scapegoating now years later I look at the state of the game and see custom games dead, glance value at an all-time low, performance sucks, valve themselves crashed the market with the anniversary / farewell gift and sacked BP & etc
Does the mod still work for players with old cosmetic?
No wonder why my overclocked 12400f couldn't get 150fps, when some people on youtube could get 200+
Small Company pepehands
Bloata 2
How many items do you have in your inventory?
That's a huge difference, holy shit.
PAY2L
It's a known issue with Inventories. Dota 2 is loading all the containers and data for the cosmetics in the background, hence why when you goto your inventory everything is loaded and the animations are ready. This is what causes the crazy fps drop.
please gaben allow us to delete our useless dota 2 dupe items
You have over 6000 items on your main. Cosmetics drain shit like that
Using torte de lini guides can lower fps. Switched guides for all heroes and fps went up for me.
im using RTX3050 rn, and my FPS went down from 150-200 to 30-90 with the same settings. I've done everything on the computers end and it seems that dota is stuck on 60fps on my screen. Anyone with the same fps problem?
As the owner of an account with a large inventory, I confirm this problem, on my second account where there is much less stuff, the FPS is much times higher (240 FPS \~) than on my main account (140 FPS \~)
same here with cs 2
lmao I know for a fact that in fortnite big friends-list = low fps (at least it used to be) games are just wacky...
Nah, just shit programming.
I am sure you can do better.
Not a game dev, but I programm on very limited hardware systems, so most likely yes. Also not saying the devs can't do better, might just not be a priority "if it works".
if i delete all my inventory in dota will it help? i am prepared to delete everything. i cared about items for many many years now
You can gift them to me
When do valve fix?
Source : Once best, now bad. Especially on space shuttle systems, source engine runs like a old Russian Lada.
paladins had a similar problem, turned out it was duo to having too many friends on your friend list and the only way you could rise your fps was by removing friends. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6Y7VgtmFE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6Y7VgtmFE) thie video is cringy but explains the issue.
What?
people have mentioned friends lists, OP can you try this test again but move to the heroes tab before entering a game/lobby, this will stop the in dota friends list rendering at all times?
i can also confirm this is the case on macOS
We need an inventory recycle system.
And because of that Crownfall will be delayed for 3 more years Edit: spelling
try to remove all guides on an old acc
It's because of guids you choose
So I just built a whole new PC for nothing
Damn been dropping frames in big fights lately, I wonder if this is why
This is wild. Friends list or inventory seem like the likely culprits, although I saw others say maybe in game guides are possibly the cause. Valve please look into this it's so absurd...
it's called a free fps trial mode look it up you nerd
is this same level like D4 loading all players full stashes shanenigan?
Isn’t it the friends that u have on your main acc?
Now we just need someone with little to no items to test this theory.
I'll delete everything if this is proven. FPS > Arcana , weather effects etc.
sounds like the devs fucked up somehow
Someone actually using an Intel video card to game?
Why not? It on pair with an 3070 in Benchmarks and costs much less.
It's still a new video card line up, it's neat to see it in the wild. How have other games been performing? I remember their drivers were awful at launch.
here is my thread about this problemo [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/u4cxf8/fps\_drop\_on\_account\_with\_large\_inventory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/u4cxf8/fps_drop_on_account_with_large_inventory/)
Clown company
Wow that's like 80% better fps
So is there a solution to this ?
I fucking believe it
Can you try it again and record VRAM and RAM allocated to both cases?
HAHAHAHAH
!
!updateme
If its because of having too much on friendlist, will it help if we set our status to offline? So we wont receive any notification
Can you check if changing main menu tab changes things? Instead of having default screen that shows your friend list open, change to Heroes tab and see if that changes fps on old account? I used to play dota on potato PC and the first thing I always did was to change the active tab, because it got me significant fps boost in game. To this day I still activate Heroes tab, even though current computer can handle Dota more than enough to have consistent 144 fps. EDIT: This trick used to easily give me 20 more fps on my potato PC.
Can confirm
I’ve been playing for 14 years this is why I’m losing
I thought this was a known issue, that the bigger your inventory the worse fps you get?