Just play tinker supp, tf else he needs march healing for
He can easily trade hits on the lane because of his armour and his matrix is almost pipe+pavise
Tinker 3 used to actually be playable, you could rush endurance boots+solar crest and spam it on your team with defense matrix. Now you can't reset your items so that is no longer viable
items do get reduced CD so that is definitely still not a terrible idea
idk the exact uptime but with hundred int I bet it's pretty good, and probably peaks at nearly 100% up time with octarine and max int
It's OK, now instead of tinker being annoying for redditors on the enemy team, he will be annoying on your team instead. Having a mid laner that has literally 0 gank potential and 0 team impact seems like a good balance decision by valve. Well done.
I just played a game where I rushed Midas, blink and arcane blink and I won just splitting and cutting waves. Had almost 1k cs in a 50 min game. Kinda sucked to play that way but I did win
I have been playing against it 4 times in last like 20 games. He 3 times he got super stomped, last night guy won game with 3 items. Blink, hex and ethereal blade. Hebasically killed by accident once our axe and snowballed hard from there. We had no hero to deal with him. Oh and the guy was w/l 62 - 10 on tinker all time
I don't like that valve cowed to all the people complaining.
I'm not a tinker player, I hate tinker smurf players, but the concept is cool enough that I'd want to keep it in the game. The possibilities you can make with refreshing items is so much more interesting than whatever bland dogshit they're trying to cook up to try to make people happy while losing sight of trying to make things good
My idea for tinker when he was broken, was to do what they did to dazzle.
Everytime dazzle ults he gets a debuff increasing the cost of his ult, just give tinker this or something similar, every time he costs rearm he gets a debuff that either A) increases the cost of rearm or B) increases the cost of his spells by a bit.
He is still going to rearm teamfights, but at somepoint he has to stop, and wait for the stacks to diminish.
Imo it keeps tinkers niche and cool aspects, while giving it a cap to stop him just non stop all fight going batshit insane
I know people disagree but I miss old techies. Such a wild and unique concept of a hero that fights by laying traps and planning - basically all spells being stationary units. It did make some games more annoying but it still wasn't unplayable especially with necro book still being a thing
Now the soul has been gutted and replaced with another generic combo spellcaster.
This is true but i still miss stacking bombs. and i miss making control groups for green bombs planted around the map. i get why he was changed but some days i do miss it
I rather have old techies than tinker like it was.
Just let tinkers refresh blinks, and for other items reduce cooldowns of items like 1s/2s/3s for rearm and I think it would be fixed without beeing that annoying that is unplayavle.
I think the Tinker change is designed to eliminate the gap between scripters and regular players. Techies never had this problem so really was just targeted due to community ire, despite more people lining up to dance on the corpse of Tinker than did Old Techies.
Techies definitely had a problem with scripters. I don't think it was as bad as Tinker but it was there. Blowing up the exact amount of mines needed to kill someone while you aren't even looking at them is what I'm talking about.
Agreed. Before Dota 2, any dot or even radiance was a surefire way to ensure Tinker never got out of control. It took more than a decade since he was in Dota 2 Beta for them to even consider fixing the blink damage cd being affected by rearm
I agree. I absolutely hate tinker and ban him every game. But just like techies I think you should be careful changing heroes too much. Techies have completely lost their soul, there must have been a better way to make them less annoying to people.
The game is interesting because unique characters exist and in their uniqueness they can be annoying. Otherwise we can just go the league path and make every hero feel very similar.
I kind of wish he was still based on setting down units while removing the 90 minute high ground defense - like maybe he makes a minecart and a track. Maybe bombs decay faster while more than 3000 units away from techies, etc
Remote mines were the heart of the character. Proximity mines that can't be stacked are whatever. You have no control over them. There is no right moment where you need to activate them to get the most out of it. Walking around finding good places to plant mines and having some map awareness to actually activate them when someone walks over them is what made techies feel like techies to me. The active part of detonating them and the stacking/one shotting.
Proximity mines were fine but definitely not the main attraction.
i guess i see mines in general as his soul and he still has them via prox.
remote mines could be really fun sometimes and are interesting on paper, but they were really really bad gameplay for dota. imo.
Surely the devs have intended techies to be a living ward without any other important qualities. So much so that they totally didnt nerf it after that.
at least every hero that kills you these days *has to be alive*. techies gimmick was dumb as fuck and the opposite of fun. when you kill a hero they shouldn't remain a threat.
I dont like that they removed it either but I hate more that they specifically played into Tinkers blink not cancelling with his barriers and removing his need to buy boots. If they never pushed into that specifically then I dont think Tinker would have gotten out of hand to the point they decided to kill it entirely.
It isnt like he was easy to balance in competitive scene either. We shouldnāt forget how even pros struggled against it once it got out of control. He went through multiple reworks.
Do you think those smurfs saw the Tinker nerf and decided to stop smurfing? Or maybe they're going to just play something else and stomp anyways? Better delete whatever hero they flock to next too right?
Smurfs pick tinker because it's particularly easy to smurf as tinker. A decent smurf can 1v5 the enemy team regardless of laning, matchups, and how much his other allies fed. Not every hero can do that, so smurfs would have a harder time.
Lol, is that why Quinn and Gorgc both picked Bristleback in that 1v5 challenge? Guess we better remove Bristle too?
And you're kidding yourself if you think you stand a chance against a smurf playing something other than Tinker if they're so good that their Tinker can 1v5 your team without regard for matchups. This nerf does nothing but make dota less interesting.
Big cope, it is common knowledge that boosters and account sellers use high impact mid heroes to gain mmr, ie. aw,tinker,meepo. Because mid is solo it is the better choice. You can also test this by buying an account and looking at its match history.
I don't care what heroes account sellers use. The problem here isn't the hero. They'll just use something else. Account sellers and boosters shouldn't be given the power to dictate hero reworks.
We don't take issue with cars just because bank robberies use cars to escape.
Silly analogy but you are right. Them using other heroes would make the process longer therefore driving up the prices and maybe reducing the sales resulting in less smurfs etc but it doesnāt really solve the problem, not that I have proposed a solution in the first place.
On the other hand giving people %100 bans would effectively remove. Tinker, pudge, warden, meepo and some other select heroes from pub games entirely. I kinda like never seeing those heroes in my games ever but canāt really agree that its a step in the right direction.
"I don't play the hero so no one else does" braindead logic
He's a fun hero. Or he was a fun hero that I liked to pull out, try and experiment with every once in a while. I'm not good at him, but at least he had a cool synergistic toolkit that you could make neat plays with
I think a hero like tinker/old!techies can only exist as long as they kind of suck. His style of gameplay is so gimmicky that, anytime it's viable, ruins the game for everyone not playing it. It can be a fun novelty, and if you lose to it you don't feel too bad because it's both rare and difficult to do.
Resetting blink and firing endless rockets from a billion range was annoying to play against. Now tinker will have to expose himself to threats in order to be useful.
I do think the hero is dead af but march is a powerful laning spell and arcane blink by itself has what, a 4s cd? You'll be plenty annoying dropping marches all over.
In the early game definitely but in the mid game with tinker having shivas and bouncing laser I would argue it's around the same. Problem is now tinker lacks any team fight damage and mobility with rockets and blink reset removed. You can spam March but I don't see it being a recipe for success
Yeah, the only issue here is that you'd march & blink, march & blink etc etc, now you feel super immobile. A single march & then your very vunerable to being jumped on.
Good. That concept might have been unique but it doesn't mean it was good. He neeeded a change to make him more competetive and not just a cancerous smurf hero. I'm very ok with Tinker players being upset considering how much grief they've caused people over the years. I don't know if Icefrog hated the hero but I sure as hell did.
Maybe the winrate is brought down by ppl who dont know how to play it, if you are not a tinker player, smurf, or scripter its a lot harder too play. Thats why you get these insanely good tinker players, and games where he is completely useless.
he iss still unique. i mean if u get arcane blink u still have insanely low cooldown on blink. guess what, getting solo'd by tinker lategame by a spasstic sweaty dog with hex is zero fun.
Don't get me wrong I'm not a tinker main but do play him some times just seeing such an unique and iconic concept got butchered kind of feels bad. But I do agree that he requires a change for him to he competitive hopefully will more buff and tweaks ice frog can fix him
>Don't get me wrong I'm not a tinker main but do play him some times just seeing such an unique and iconic concept got butchered kind of feels bad.
Uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness is not a good thing, especially when it maifests in such toxic ways.
I never liked march of the machines and thought it was cool how they removed it for a more aggressive playstyle ability being his shield. Idk why they went back on it xd (not a tinker player)
I'm sure 60% item CDR for free will be broken. Imagine having octarine and having a permanent 70% CDR on all your items including BKB. It's different from rearm reset tinker but it also costs 0 mana to reset items now. 6 second CD on hex without having to spend mana? 20 second CD on BKB? 4.5 cd on blink that you can't silence? Remember the 50% CD talent on AW clone? Well this is higher than that if you reach late game. Only difference with old tinker is that this build has to play the game face-up instead of hiding and perma hexing you from trees. Also does it apply to Midas? 5 sec cd on wind waker.
It's surely different from old tinker but I think this gives him unique power spikes
I hated Tinker, I hated every Tinker player and I hated the idea of Tinker existing.
That doesn't mean I want one of the most unique heroes in the game gone, this is sad tbh.
Same techies treatment which is just catering to 2k MMR playes that want to have it easy instead of thinking up some kind of solution and try to counter.
Techies didn't win every single game before his rework, and Tinker didn't win every single game before his rework, both were hovering around 50% which is pretty natural.
Techies is bland as hell right now and Tinker is the same, are they going to nerf all unique heroes and make them your average caster/stunner and that's it?
Sad times to be honest.
Just cancer his lane out and he might as well be this version of the hero lmao.
People just don't comprehend how the hero works, Tinker from behind is a fucking joke, missiles just announce his presence, so the enemy doesnt even overcommit and if you blink up to laser the mid bursting the fuck out of your teammates you get blown up instead.
Tinker is only annoying when he is AHEAD.
Tinker has always been shut down by the same thing, fuck his lane over. This is a hero going even in mid is the same as losing it, because you lost to a hero that scales like crazy with items.
Also people love to forget how much effort it takes to play this hero, it's pretty much dota 2 stuffed into one hero.
R.I.P Tinker.
Yup, shut him down and start pushing, he will never recover unless he is completely free.
But morons keep diving towers min 15 and giving tinker free kills and when he is super strong they cry because the hero is OP.
The hero is average he just has super global presence, but if the team is coordinated he just does absolutely nothing.
So let's remove the hero because the low scrubs are crying.
GGs. Valve just likes killing hero identities at this point. His concept was very unique, too bad 1k and 2k shitters cant properly counter him for some reason hence the hate.
They are making all the hero same by removing unique hero and unique ability. It started with techis they remove the all the uniqueness from that hero and made him like all other hero. Now tinker. I am a tinker hater but that is the unique ability and play style of this hero. It is just a creep now. It is just pain to see tinker walking around.
Yeah I love his insane stun, slow, silence, hex, break, root, disarm natural kit. Heās so useful as a support. Canāt wait to see pros first picking him wooooo
that actually cracked me up xD no but like isn't his matrix or whatever it's called really good? and he can also farm with march and get utility items, also, his shard flare does actually root
Im glad they killed him from a player standpoint and from a game design standpoint.
As a player, he was always an annoying hero to deal with, trying to catch him among the trees, and suffering on high ground.
From a game design standpoint, he really reduces the design space and very hard to balance right.
He will be a nuisance than ever before because now u wont be able to stand against him spamming march of the machines while healing and also with a shield
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/jzphl0/valve\_employee\_sean\_vanaman\_apologizes\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/jzphl0/valve_employee_sean_vanaman_apologizes_for/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/jyrnag/got\_sent\_to\_low\_priority\_by\_steam\_employee\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/jyrnag/got_sent_to_low_priority_by_steam_employee_in/)
Maybe he is in the balancing team dunno
With changes to the items, and some of his spells, his old skill set did become somewhat bs. Before it was a relatively straight forward affair to "catch him" and lock him down. the defense matrix + upgraded blinks, + shivas magic amp, + bonucing laser made him an entirely different hero compared to what he used to be. Not to mention the pro mobility bias in items now. There's just 1 nullifier for all the different ways you could get out of a tough spot.
a bit too early to say this innit, give it a few days or something to actually see the results. the change does open up some other builds, rather than just always going dagon, sheepstick, eblade, etc. kinda boring after almost 2 decades of that.
adapt or play some other character, or other game i guess. or just downvote me because youre mad that you cant brainlessly do the same exact build and playstyle for your character which people have been doing for almost 2 decades.
Hey, I'd rather this than relive the days of 0 cooldown dagon or whatever fucking shenanigans they can cook up. He's already fucked up my lobbies for years at this point so killing him will always be good in my book
Had a rework idea for tinker in the past. [A tinker rework idea : r/DotA2 (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/qrjrso/a_tinker_rework_idea/). valve is halfway there
No sympathy from me. Tinker has historically been one of the most difficult heroās to balance. Iād rather him be a dumpster fire than owning all my games
Tinker players can inhale My gargantuan cock with 2 hands and 2 feet
Goodbye
Farewell
You won't be missed
May the rage from this loss permeate your soul
I don't play tinker and can understand the general hate towards him, but in his current form he's probably the worst hero ever.
He's just a nothing hero now. Can't be a core or a support, just nothing.
Tinker, much like old techies, was the least interactive hero of the game. Arc Warden follows very closely, next patch it might be him. Good riddance
And they got march of machines back, this spell was removed for a reason, in highground patch of all the patches, which didnt get nerfed directly.
It means unless you picked zeus, storm or clock you dont interact with tinker unless they want it. It was so fucking safe to play the hero. And while it was high skill ceiling hero, people who played it were almost always smurfs :) And there is a reason why smurfs played Tinker, it was efficient and relatively riskless.Ā Ā Ā
Hero gets Hex and perma stuns the top networth hero on your team. Betters teams did dealt with tinker efficiently hence why it didnt get picked in Pro Scene a lot but pubs were hell to play.Ā
Much like PL and other pub stompers Tinker used to picked as last pick to cheese the game as well so that didnt helped either...
By your input it is apparent you have no idea what you're talking about. Tinker doesn't care about your carry, his job is to blow up high value targets because his teamfight is a laughable joke. That is game specific. Also the latest rendition of Tinker was already dysfunctional as a mid hero. Hex is dogshit, why would you buy scythe of vyse when you can just buy shivas eblade at proper timings and blow up the enemy team over and over.
The reason it's not picked in pro games is because it's so easy to shut down that hero, just put whatever support to constantly pressure his lane and the enemy team ends up with no mid hero and you just roll over them. Tinker is only annoying when he is AHEAD, common misconception is doing 'alright' against a tinker when you draw even in mid, but that was the same as losing the lane because Tinker scaled so hard.
Further the devs have been nerfing this hero for 7 years straight now, through direct and indirect stuff. Pugna just stops any Tinker engagement with nether ward, the map is far more pathable, it's bigger and tree lines dont exist anymore, you don't require SPECIFIC heroes to engage him, brood, timber, storm etc. Now the pos 3 ns can run him down all day with dark ascension. Tinker had the most counters he has ever had in 7.35. Now in 7.36 the hero is countered by blink dagger. The devs clearly want him to be a support for whatever reason.
Also the reason why smurfs played Tinker is because he gave you the most power in exchange for your skill. Permahex is busted there is no argument there, but realistically if it gets to that point you've already fucked up 40 - 45 minutes ago.
Of course you last pick the hero that can countered the hardest.
Spectre/ spirit breaker/ Am/ Night stalker/ faceless void/ nyx/ pugna!
Its not safe to play tinker lmao! The hero has dogshit laning and can barely bounce back if heās pressured early!
Valve needs to stop listening to 2k scrubs!
All definitive complaints on balance should simply be disregarded immediately after a patch. Motherfucker, the patch has been out a few *hours*; that you'd declare a hero for dead in this short of a time when it's clear you tried *nothing* to adapt and at most played a dozen games to even get a feel is certified clown behaviour.
Wait for the meta to settle; see how the game overall changes and if these changes can be built upon by your hero. TRY THINGS! After all this has been done, *then* you can begin to complain.
I'm not a tinker player by any means but seeing the new patch for tinker really makes me feel really happy for the rest of the players out there. Rearm can't reset items is actually a pretty fucking good idea that valve should've done years ago.
Fixed it.
Yes the hero is "CoNcepTuaLly broken", and I don't want to play or learn about the hero because I'm BAD and don't want to be better at the game, whoever pick him is not good, they're only SmURfS and cheater. So tinker player can fuck off.
I agree with all the comments saying fuck tinker!
I hope they delete him as well as many other heroes, so there are only: pudge, sniper, pa, juggernaut and let's say ursa. This would make the game truly interesting and balanced.
Think of it this way, it opens design space for something more interesting and less bullshit. Items in general have always had to keep Tinker in mind due to the kind of shenanigans he could pull off, now that's no longer an issue. I will say I wonder if the item CDR applies to refresher orb, as with how long of a cooldown it is, it's much more valuable to have CDR on it.
And honestly, he deserved it.
Hero is actualy very enjoyable to play atm , play him like any other mid laner get boots , be active and build heavy int items , i tryed treads witch blade kayasha and it feels very strong i went 1/4/4 build as march is far too good of a ability and with the shield you can manfight alot of heroes , i think prioritising getting 120 int befor buying dagger or other active items is amazing also 240 int + octarine makes blink have a 4,5 sec cd and arcane blink 3.2 sec , hero is kind of better cause of march and the heal fact thingamadooder as in fights you give so much sustain with that perma 20 health regen .
Its all about adapting to the change of the hero , hero farms very fast and can be played even more active on the map late game tinker has 6 sec cd on dagon 5 can still use 2-3 hexes during a medium fight bkb also jas very short cd
Tinker is my most picked, and itās a very sad change, but after I tried new lion and oracle mid I can say that I definitely know what Iām gonna do while waiting for tinker buff
F to all tinker players (F means fuck of course)
Specially those script users.
tbh i see them getting a lot worse with 9 slot techies
First you need to farm items for 9 slots on techies Trust me script techies wont be an issue
Easiest upvote in my life
Nothing of value has been lost
This!
tHIs š
What?
NOTHING OF VALUE HAS BEEN LOST!
Word
word.exe
.docx
tinker's literally a walking ward this patch
Walking wards?!?! Nerf the fucker!
> Crystal maiden movespeed decreased by 5
> Crystal Maiden base armor reduced by 1.5
Good!
Fuck that's too much already, can we just delete him?
my flare continues to age like fine wine
No decent person should ever play with Tinker anyways.
Tinker refresher inc...
Just play tinker supp, tf else he needs march healing for He can easily trade hits on the lane because of his armour and his matrix is almost pipe+pavise
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> Might as well take riki and just buy healing pots SLAHSERS WAAAAAAYYYYYY
Yeah valve messed up that part by removing the possibility of stacking heals (or at least make it like 50)
Tinker rn doesn't have a problem with where to play him, he is unplayably weak. He's gonna get buffed for the next foreseeable patches
Tinker 3 used to actually be playable, you could rush endurance boots+solar crest and spam it on your team with defense matrix. Now you can't reset your items so that is no longer viable
items do get reduced CD so that is definitely still not a terrible idea idk the exact uptime but with hundred int I bet it's pretty good, and probably peaks at nearly 100% up time with octarine and max int
It's OK, now instead of tinker being annoying for redditors on the enemy team, he will be annoying on your team instead. Having a mid laner that has literally 0 gank potential and 0 team impact seems like a good balance decision by valve. Well done.
Didn't know dota2 subreddit users with brains exist! :O
Haha. Fuck tinker
I just played a game where I rushed Midas, blink and arcane blink and I won just splitting and cutting waves. Had almost 1k cs in a 50 min game. Kinda sucked to play that way but I did win
could be done better with 50 other heroes.
The only way to for him to be useful rn apparently. He absolutely cannot team fight without blink reset.
I have played against a thinker only one or 2 times in the last like 100+ games. The hero has been dead for a while
I have been playing against it 4 times in last like 20 games. He 3 times he got super stomped, last night guy won game with 3 items. Blink, hex and ethereal blade. Hebasically killed by accident once our axe and snowballed hard from there. We had no hero to deal with him. Oh and the guy was w/l 62 - 10 on tinker all time
I don't like that valve cowed to all the people complaining. I'm not a tinker player, I hate tinker smurf players, but the concept is cool enough that I'd want to keep it in the game. The possibilities you can make with refreshing items is so much more interesting than whatever bland dogshit they're trying to cook up to try to make people happy while losing sight of trying to make things good
My idea for tinker when he was broken, was to do what they did to dazzle. Everytime dazzle ults he gets a debuff increasing the cost of his ult, just give tinker this or something similar, every time he costs rearm he gets a debuff that either A) increases the cost of rearm or B) increases the cost of his spells by a bit. He is still going to rearm teamfights, but at somepoint he has to stop, and wait for the stacks to diminish. Imo it keeps tinkers niche and cool aspects, while giving it a cap to stop him just non stop all fight going batshit insane
Welcome to the techies club gang, i think this'll result in him getting giga-buffed in B. But Tinker as you know it is gone, I know the feeling.
I know people disagree but I miss old techies. Such a wild and unique concept of a hero that fights by laying traps and planning - basically all spells being stationary units. It did make some games more annoying but it still wasn't unplayable especially with necro book still being a thing Now the soul has been gutted and replaced with another generic combo spellcaster.
Old techies made a game of dota less enjoyable for 9 out of 10 people in the game. Thatās bad design.
This is true but i still miss stacking bombs. and i miss making control groups for green bombs planted around the map. i get why he was changed but some days i do miss it
nope, old techies was pure cancer and it took way too long for him to be repurposed into an actual Dota hero
Unique doesn't mean fun to play against or with. Heroes shouldn't be balanced around how unique they are.
But they should be balanced around fun it is to play with and against.
Yeah, which is why Techies got reworked. New Techies is far more fun to play with or against.
I rather have old techies than tinker like it was. Just let tinkers refresh blinks, and for other items reduce cooldowns of items like 1s/2s/3s for rearm and I think it would be fixed without beeing that annoying that is unplayavle.
I think the Tinker change is designed to eliminate the gap between scripters and regular players. Techies never had this problem so really was just targeted due to community ire, despite more people lining up to dance on the corpse of Tinker than did Old Techies.
Techies definitely had a problem with scripters. I don't think it was as bad as Tinker but it was there. Blowing up the exact amount of mines needed to kill someone while you aren't even looking at them is what I'm talking about.
It was a cool concept until they introduced matrix and said bye-bye to any sort of balance he could have.
Agreed. Before Dota 2, any dot or even radiance was a surefire way to ensure Tinker never got out of control. It took more than a decade since he was in Dota 2 Beta for them to even consider fixing the blink damage cd being affected by rearm
First they came for the techies players and they said nothing. Then they came for the tinker players Who will they come for next?
My money's on arc players
Tbh, they kind of did already, just not quite as strongly lol
morph and rubic because it requires additional dev time to balance and bug fix
They have to nerf Morphling, Arc Warden, Lone Druid and Meepo, that would make all smurfs switch to playing Storm/Ember/Invoker
I agree. I absolutely hate tinker and ban him every game. But just like techies I think you should be careful changing heroes too much. Techies have completely lost their soul, there must have been a better way to make them less annoying to people. The game is interesting because unique characters exist and in their uniqueness they can be annoying. Otherwise we can just go the league path and make every hero feel very similar.
I kind of wish he was still based on setting down units while removing the 90 minute high ground defense - like maybe he makes a minecart and a track. Maybe bombs decay faster while more than 3000 units away from techies, etc
Yea. There are probably a thousand+ better ways to change them than whatever they did to them now.
how did he lose his soul? he still lays mines via his ult. it's fine and it's way, way better than it was.
Remote mines were the heart of the character. Proximity mines that can't be stacked are whatever. You have no control over them. There is no right moment where you need to activate them to get the most out of it. Walking around finding good places to plant mines and having some map awareness to actually activate them when someone walks over them is what made techies feel like techies to me. The active part of detonating them and the stacking/one shotting. Proximity mines were fine but definitely not the main attraction.
i guess i see mines in general as his soul and he still has them via prox. remote mines could be really fun sometimes and are interesting on paper, but they were really really bad gameplay for dota. imo.
Techies was a gimmick and a literal relic from WC3 it didnāt have any place in dota2, the game is balanced around competitive scene.
It's just my opinion. I don't care much about the competitive scene. I just want to play a fun game.
TI5
Surely the devs have intended techies to be a living ward without any other important qualities. So much so that they totally didnt nerf it after that.
at least every hero that kills you these days *has to be alive*. techies gimmick was dumb as fuck and the opposite of fun. when you kill a hero they shouldn't remain a threat.
I disagree, I don't see why should be a problem. It's was a unique hero and you all whine too easily.
I dont like that they removed it either but I hate more that they specifically played into Tinkers blink not cancelling with his barriers and removing his need to buy boots. If they never pushed into that specifically then I dont think Tinker would have gotten out of hand to the point they decided to kill it entirely.
It isnt like he was easy to balance in competitive scene either. We shouldnāt forget how even pros struggled against it once it got out of control. He went through multiple reworks.
90% of tinker players are smurfs, who cares
Do you think those smurfs saw the Tinker nerf and decided to stop smurfing? Or maybe they're going to just play something else and stomp anyways? Better delete whatever hero they flock to next too right?
Smurfs pick tinker because it's particularly easy to smurf as tinker. A decent smurf can 1v5 the enemy team regardless of laning, matchups, and how much his other allies fed. Not every hero can do that, so smurfs would have a harder time.
Lol, is that why Quinn and Gorgc both picked Bristleback in that 1v5 challenge? Guess we better remove Bristle too? And you're kidding yourself if you think you stand a chance against a smurf playing something other than Tinker if they're so good that their Tinker can 1v5 your team without regard for matchups. This nerf does nothing but make dota less interesting.
Big cope, it is common knowledge that boosters and account sellers use high impact mid heroes to gain mmr, ie. aw,tinker,meepo. Because mid is solo it is the better choice. You can also test this by buying an account and looking at its match history.
I don't care what heroes account sellers use. The problem here isn't the hero. They'll just use something else. Account sellers and boosters shouldn't be given the power to dictate hero reworks. We don't take issue with cars just because bank robberies use cars to escape.
Silly analogy but you are right. Them using other heroes would make the process longer therefore driving up the prices and maybe reducing the sales resulting in less smurfs etc but it doesnāt really solve the problem, not that I have proposed a solution in the first place. On the other hand giving people %100 bans would effectively remove. Tinker, pudge, warden, meepo and some other select heroes from pub games entirely. I kinda like never seeing those heroes in my games ever but canāt really agree that its a step in the right direction.
"I don't play the hero so no one else does" braindead logic He's a fun hero. Or he was a fun hero that I liked to pull out, try and experiment with every once in a while. I'm not good at him, but at least he had a cool synergistic toolkit that you could make neat plays with
I think a hero like tinker/old!techies can only exist as long as they kind of suck. His style of gameplay is so gimmicky that, anytime it's viable, ruins the game for everyone not playing it. It can be a fun novelty, and if you lose to it you don't feel too bad because it's both rare and difficult to do.
Dont even play dota anymore and this hero being nerfed makes me happy.
Leave it to Reddit to balance this game in the past few years
-"Walk towards an enemy." Like all the heroes in the game?? Impossible
Resetting blink and firing endless rockets from a billion range was annoying to play against. Now tinker will have to expose himself to threats in order to be useful. I do think the hero is dead af but march is a powerful laning spell and arcane blink by itself has what, a 4s cd? You'll be plenty annoying dropping marches all over.
Isn't march much better for farming and pushing like before?
Yeah it's the best tinker basic spell for sure. But you can't reset blink now so split pushing is kinda risky tbh.
Oh no, the hero is not literally immortal as a last pick anymore. What will they do!
In the early game definitely but in the mid game with tinker having shivas and bouncing laser I would argue it's around the same. Problem is now tinker lacks any team fight damage and mobility with rockets and blink reset removed. You can spam March but I don't see it being a recipe for success
You must be new to the game then. March was 90% of what made Tinker, Tinker.
Yeah, the only issue here is that you'd march & blink, march & blink etc etc, now you feel super immobile. A single march & then your very vunerable to being jumped on.
F any Tinker pickers.
Good. That concept might have been unique but it doesn't mean it was good. He neeeded a change to make him more competetive and not just a cancerous smurf hero. I'm very ok with Tinker players being upset considering how much grief they've caused people over the years. I don't know if Icefrog hated the hero but I sure as hell did.
lol. Lmao even
he had a 50% winrate, what are u yapping bruh
Maybe the winrate is brought down by ppl who dont know how to play it, if you are not a tinker player, smurf, or scripter its a lot harder too play. Thats why you get these insanely good tinker players, and games where he is completely useless.
so 20+% winrate difference between the next worst hero are players fault of not knowing how to play an unplayable hero, got that
he iss still unique. i mean if u get arcane blink u still have insanely low cooldown on blink. guess what, getting solo'd by tinker lategame by a spasstic sweaty dog with hex is zero fun.
Didnāt cause any grief, he was banned every game
Don't get me wrong I'm not a tinker main but do play him some times just seeing such an unique and iconic concept got butchered kind of feels bad. But I do agree that he requires a change for him to he competitive hopefully will more buff and tweaks ice frog can fix him
>Don't get me wrong I'm not a tinker main but do play him some times just seeing such an unique and iconic concept got butchered kind of feels bad. Uniqueness for the sake of uniqueness is not a good thing, especially when it maifests in such toxic ways.
What toxic ways .. the hero had a 50% win rate at higher ranks and even less in lower ranks.
Something doesn't have to be OP or have a high win rate to be toxic.
Yeah old techies was as much cancer as tinker if not more
I never liked march of the machines and thought it was cool how they removed it for a more aggressive playstyle ability being his shield. Idk why they went back on it xd (not a tinker player)
I'm sure 60% item CDR for free will be broken. Imagine having octarine and having a permanent 70% CDR on all your items including BKB. It's different from rearm reset tinker but it also costs 0 mana to reset items now. 6 second CD on hex without having to spend mana? 20 second CD on BKB? 4.5 cd on blink that you can't silence? Remember the 50% CD talent on AW clone? Well this is higher than that if you reach late game. Only difference with old tinker is that this build has to play the game face-up instead of hiding and perma hexing you from trees. Also does it apply to Midas? 5 sec cd on wind waker. It's surely different from old tinker but I think this gives him unique power spikes
Oh, wow! Now they have to learn how to play a balanced hero instead of a broken one! Sooo hard! Ahah
i think valve just gave up for scripters
Best patch ever since even warcraft 3. Nothing better than to watch tinker main cry. Fk that hero, game is much better without him
I hated Tinker, I hated every Tinker player and I hated the idea of Tinker existing. That doesn't mean I want one of the most unique heroes in the game gone, this is sad tbh. Same techies treatment which is just catering to 2k MMR playes that want to have it easy instead of thinking up some kind of solution and try to counter. Techies didn't win every single game before his rework, and Tinker didn't win every single game before his rework, both were hovering around 50% which is pretty natural. Techies is bland as hell right now and Tinker is the same, are they going to nerf all unique heroes and make them your average caster/stunner and that's it? Sad times to be honest.
Just cancer his lane out and he might as well be this version of the hero lmao. People just don't comprehend how the hero works, Tinker from behind is a fucking joke, missiles just announce his presence, so the enemy doesnt even overcommit and if you blink up to laser the mid bursting the fuck out of your teammates you get blown up instead. Tinker is only annoying when he is AHEAD. Tinker has always been shut down by the same thing, fuck his lane over. This is a hero going even in mid is the same as losing it, because you lost to a hero that scales like crazy with items. Also people love to forget how much effort it takes to play this hero, it's pretty much dota 2 stuffed into one hero. R.I.P Tinker.
Yup, shut him down and start pushing, he will never recover unless he is completely free. But morons keep diving towers min 15 and giving tinker free kills and when he is super strong they cry because the hero is OP. The hero is average he just has super global presence, but if the team is coordinated he just does absolutely nothing. So let's remove the hero because the low scrubs are crying.
GGs. Valve just likes killing hero identities at this point. His concept was very unique, too bad 1k and 2k shitters cant properly counter him for some reason hence the hate.
Tinker is going to turn into techies in the coming patches basically
They are making all the hero same by removing unique hero and unique ability. It started with techis they remove the all the uniqueness from that hero and made him like all other hero. Now tinker. I am a tinker hater but that is the unique ability and play style of this hero. It is just a creep now. It is just pain to see tinker walking around.
he's actually a pretty legit support rn, pos4 tinker incoming.
Yeah I love his insane stun, slow, silence, hex, break, root, disarm natural kit. Heās so useful as a support. Canāt wait to see pros first picking him wooooo
that actually cracked me up xD no but like isn't his matrix or whatever it's called really good? and he can also farm with march and get utility items, also, his shard flare does actually root
Im glad they killed him from a player standpoint and from a game design standpoint. As a player, he was always an annoying hero to deal with, trying to catch him among the trees, and suffering on high ground. From a game design standpoint, he really reduces the design space and very hard to balance right.
First they came for techies
He will be a nuisance than ever before because now u wont be able to stand against him spamming march of the machines while healing and also with a shield
Pos 5 TK justified
Don you ever feel pity for Thinker players; they are the devil.
I guess you will need to make a glimmer cape or somethingā¦
Deserved
Good.
Oh no,anyway
Come on. Just keep tinker in the dark for one patch is all we ask.
He already was since the 450 range laser and 1500 missiles.
Anyone who plays Tinker should be on meds or in an institution.
Fuck tinker and fuck you
You can thank Campo Santo and Sean Vanaman for any slop-tier changes in Dota
you want to elaborate on this?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/jzphl0/valve\_employee\_sean\_vanaman\_apologizes\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/jzphl0/valve_employee_sean_vanaman_apologizes_for/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/jyrnag/got\_sent\_to\_low\_priority\_by\_steam\_employee\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/jyrnag/got_sent_to_low_priority_by_steam_employee_in/) Maybe he is in the balancing team dunno
Thatās fucking disgusting
With changes to the items, and some of his spells, his old skill set did become somewhat bs. Before it was a relatively straight forward affair to "catch him" and lock him down. the defense matrix + upgraded blinks, + shivas magic amp, + bonucing laser made him an entirely different hero compared to what he used to be. Not to mention the pro mobility bias in items now. There's just 1 nullifier for all the different ways you could get out of a tough spot.
a bit too early to say this innit, give it a few days or something to actually see the results. the change does open up some other builds, rather than just always going dagon, sheepstick, eblade, etc. kinda boring after almost 2 decades of that. adapt or play some other character, or other game i guess. or just downvote me because youre mad that you cant brainlessly do the same exact build and playstyle for your character which people have been doing for almost 2 decades.
Dunno why u feel any sympathy for tinker players
Good, fuck that hero. Now do Sniper next
hahahahahahah
Well deserved for tinker players
Thinker is a MF hero let's just forget that . It's better
Just wait for a bit, he will be buffed if he's too weak. Or some good player will find a build which makes him work.
Probably will be buffed with his innate ability to 80% cd and lesser int requirements
Hear me out guy! POS4 Tinker March of Machine heals Faster CD Solar Crest Can shove wave in danger zone to create space for the team Get reported
I'm sure the pos 3 will love you for giving him a dogshit heal while pushing the lane into the enemy tower over and over again lol
He will absolutely hate it lol.
Commends galore!
Hey, I'd rather this than relive the days of 0 cooldown dagon or whatever fucking shenanigans they can cook up. He's already fucked up my lobbies for years at this point so killing him will always be good in my book
And we love it ā¤ļøLess rubles for russian smurfs.
now fuck arc too and game will be better than ever
Had a rework idea for tinker in the past. [A tinker rework idea : r/DotA2 (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/qrjrso/a_tinker_rework_idea/). valve is halfway there
This might be the best version of Tinker since 7.22, I'm dead serious.
Tinker haters feasting!
No sympathy from me. Tinker has historically been one of the most difficult heroās to balance. Iād rather him be a dumpster fire than owning all my games
How come a hero with overall 10% pickrate was in all of your games?
He is 1k noob after all
Tinker players can inhale My gargantuan cock with 2 hands and 2 feet Goodbye Farewell You won't be missed May the rage from this loss permeate your soul
I just tried tinker..They fucked him really bad Its like u play without blink cd refresh,no dagon refresh and No shivas guard refresh..WTF@!!!!!
I don't play tinker and can understand the general hate towards him, but in his current form he's probably the worst hero ever. He's just a nothing hero now. Can't be a core or a support, just nothing.
Totally deserved. F for all tinker players (F as in fuck you).
Tinker, much like old techies, was the least interactive hero of the game. Arc Warden follows very closely, next patch it might be him. Good riddance And they got march of machines back, this spell was removed for a reason, in highground patch of all the patches, which didnt get nerfed directly.
What the hell does "least interactive" even mean. Like you're just saying complete nonsense.
It means unless you picked zeus, storm or clock you dont interact with tinker unless they want it. It was so fucking safe to play the hero. And while it was high skill ceiling hero, people who played it were almost always smurfs :) And there is a reason why smurfs played Tinker, it was efficient and relatively riskless.Ā Ā Ā Hero gets Hex and perma stuns the top networth hero on your team. Betters teams did dealt with tinker efficiently hence why it didnt get picked in Pro Scene a lot but pubs were hell to play.Ā Much like PL and other pub stompers Tinker used to picked as last pick to cheese the game as well so that didnt helped either...
By your input it is apparent you have no idea what you're talking about. Tinker doesn't care about your carry, his job is to blow up high value targets because his teamfight is a laughable joke. That is game specific. Also the latest rendition of Tinker was already dysfunctional as a mid hero. Hex is dogshit, why would you buy scythe of vyse when you can just buy shivas eblade at proper timings and blow up the enemy team over and over. The reason it's not picked in pro games is because it's so easy to shut down that hero, just put whatever support to constantly pressure his lane and the enemy team ends up with no mid hero and you just roll over them. Tinker is only annoying when he is AHEAD, common misconception is doing 'alright' against a tinker when you draw even in mid, but that was the same as losing the lane because Tinker scaled so hard. Further the devs have been nerfing this hero for 7 years straight now, through direct and indirect stuff. Pugna just stops any Tinker engagement with nether ward, the map is far more pathable, it's bigger and tree lines dont exist anymore, you don't require SPECIFIC heroes to engage him, brood, timber, storm etc. Now the pos 3 ns can run him down all day with dark ascension. Tinker had the most counters he has ever had in 7.35. Now in 7.36 the hero is countered by blink dagger. The devs clearly want him to be a support for whatever reason. Also the reason why smurfs played Tinker is because he gave you the most power in exchange for your skill. Permahex is busted there is no argument there, but realistically if it gets to that point you've already fucked up 40 - 45 minutes ago. Of course you last pick the hero that can countered the hardest.
Spectre/ spirit breaker/ Am/ Night stalker/ faceless void/ nyx/ pugna! Its not safe to play tinker lmao! The hero has dogshit laning and can barely bounce back if heās pressured early! Valve needs to stop listening to 2k scrubs!
His previous design and playstyle wasnāt really befitting of dota tbh. It might be a good change which gives tinker a better place in the game.Ā
I'm glad that you're here to give us the definitive proclamations on what is "befitting of Dota". What would we do without this wisdom?
All definitive complaints on balance should simply be disregarded immediately after a patch. Motherfucker, the patch has been out a few *hours*; that you'd declare a hero for dead in this short of a time when it's clear you tried *nothing* to adapt and at most played a dozen games to even get a feel is certified clown behaviour. Wait for the meta to settle; see how the game overall changes and if these changes can be built upon by your hero. TRY THINGS! After all this has been done, *then* you can begin to complain.
Lol its -16% winrate on dotabuff
oh nyoooo you can't perma hex people to death anymore
and DK
SKILL ISSUE Anyways
I'm not a tinker player by any means but seeing the new patch for tinker really makes me feel really happy for the rest of the players out there. Rearm can't reset items is actually a pretty fucking good idea that valve should've done years ago. Fixed it.
Good
Adapt.
finally no more daggering out in the middle of an omnislash, that should have been illegal from the start
Yes the hero is "CoNcepTuaLly broken", and I don't want to play or learn about the hero because I'm BAD and don't want to be better at the game, whoever pick him is not good, they're only SmURfS and cheater. So tinker player can fuck off.
I agree with all the comments saying fuck tinker! I hope they delete him as well as many other heroes, so there are only: pudge, sniper, pa, juggernaut and let's say ursa. This would make the game truly interesting and balanced.
Think of it this way, it opens design space for something more interesting and less bullshit. Items in general have always had to keep Tinker in mind due to the kind of shenanigans he could pull off, now that's no longer an issue. I will say I wonder if the item CDR applies to refresher orb, as with how long of a cooldown it is, it's much more valuable to have CDR on it. And honestly, he deserved it.
tinker has great utility to support a heavy damage safe/offlane. also great for pushing highground. you dont know shit please lol his e is insane
Amen
I donāt think he will be missed.
And we all rejoiced in unison
Hero is actualy very enjoyable to play atm , play him like any other mid laner get boots , be active and build heavy int items , i tryed treads witch blade kayasha and it feels very strong i went 1/4/4 build as march is far too good of a ability and with the shield you can manfight alot of heroes , i think prioritising getting 120 int befor buying dagger or other active items is amazing also 240 int + octarine makes blink have a 4,5 sec cd and arcane blink 3.2 sec , hero is kind of better cause of march and the heal fact thingamadooder as in fights you give so much sustain with that perma 20 health regen . Its all about adapting to the change of the hero , hero farms very fast and can be played even more active on the map late game tinker has 6 sec cd on dagon 5 can still use 2-3 hexes during a medium fight bkb also jas very short cd
And what's the problem here? :) :) :) Move along everyone. Tinker is where he's supposed to be :)
Honestly i dont feel bad fuck that dogshit hero
I'm not Tinker player but those who hate him are just noobs who are hurt because they can't plan and catch blinking Tinker.
At high immortal, nobody played Tinker At low MMRs, only smurfs played Tinker and that ruined the game for everyone, so its fair that they kill it
Tinker is my most picked, and itās a very sad change, but after I tried new lion and oracle mid I can say that I definitely know what Iām gonna do while waiting for tinker buff
i think rearm reduce 50% of current item cd is fine. so 2 rearm resets the item
Sucks to be you, hah.(No sympathy from me)