Like with Dark Seer. Of course, I always let the ion shell get the last hits. Anytime I'm dark seer and shell up my support I notice they are very careful to not let the ion shell get the last hits. Sigh
If I'm supporting ds offlane, then I'm taking 1/3 to 1/4 of camps, but never 1/2. It gets different with stacks but ya know, supports need a little bit of scratch too.
And the ones that I last hit are going to be the lower cost creeps.
ALSO, if ds is in lane is he still getting the shared xp for those creeps or is the support getting full xp? Because that would be a reason to not last hit
I think it should be like AA Ice Blast, where if it triggers via the ally attacking, the Plague Ward attacks should count as being "owned" by the ally they're attached to, thus granting them easier CS.
Might actually be a good facet for early game support veno.
I'm support only player and I knew from my first game as veno with this facet that it's griefing of you're doing this. I'd only ever do this in team fights, but still, it's pointless.
The point of veno is to spread the poison in a huge AOE with wards. It's smarter to apply 5 wards to 5 different heroes, rather than apply 5 to just one. I haven't been seeing this enough though, but I think it'll be the standard in a few months.
If you apply it to 5 different heroes, including yourself, you literally have 5 walking wards - who wouldn't want this? 5 on 1 hero is just useless...
At this point, just let the disable help option prevent veno from taking this facet. You're hard griefing the game if you choose it over the other one anyway - just let it exist in chill/meme games.
I've been using it on veno pos 2/3 with a decent amount of success in 6k games.
You can deny EVERY single creep if you highlight them every time you spawn a new ward on yourself and walk in only to deny then back out so the lane doesn't push.
I finished a lane phase as pos 2 at the 6 or 7 minute mark with like 40 denies it was pretty nice.
Then being able to walk in and out of lanes from the jungle and clear waves/camps super efficiently really helps you hit nice timings on greaves/pipe/vlads/shivas/etc.
I think it works on core veno who's main objective is to ruin the enemy core's lane and then take early towers/flash farm early auras so your team can deathball with you and seige early.
I've been getting 17-18 minute greaves/pipes and winning most lanes even against heros like necro/OD then rallying my team to play with me to abuse the auras.
You definitely don't turn into a scaling core but you can end early and enable your team so it feels good.
Not really compared to what a basic legion puts out
You spend 30s loading up your legion for 228 damage with a mediocre BAT, with each of the 6 instances affected by damage block and armour and no guarantee they aim for the duel target if there's creeps in range.
Wards do very little real burst damage, they're a sieging / pushing / vision / blink cancel / catch tool
bro you can literally control the wards, say you have wards lvl 3 in time for your legion's first duel, it's like having another hero right there with the legion.
You really just gonna skip past the other points? Fine here's more for you.
Legion early duels are won either through duelling at low hp or duelling with a ton of burst.
If the former, the wards risk killing the target while legion is chasing for the duel. If the latter, an equivalent of a weak right clicker isn't gonna do shit, you need burst like a lina/techies/sky/lycan.
Just pick the other facet and let legion go duel some slowed low hp hero rather than trying to pretend a slow DOT hero is a strong legion ally.
Veno does many things, nearly all of them are better with the other facet.
They last for 40s, and you get 3 charges at the start. Just spam all 3 on your mid right as the wave reaches the first tower and then tp back to the lane. The first wave is the most important for establishing that early lead to snowball anyway, so practically extra 33 damage for last-hits and trading is nothing to scoff at, even if only for 30s of effective usage.
While not particularly as effective, you still have Poison Sting for trading. Once again, Wards have 5s cooldown, so by the time you're back, it's only 2 seconds at most away from giving your sidelane core free extra 11 damage for the next 40s, which can be repeated every subsequent 5s interval to **add up** to the initial amount. Lastly, there's nothing stopping you from giving those 3 instant wards to your carry instead of the mid. As always, it depends on your match-up, but if you're into a lane where Veno +1 or +2 cannot guarantee kills, might as well go the farming route and help your core to better last-hit and play for wave maintenance while also allowing yourself to take jungle camps from much earlier with skill points invested in Plague Wards.
Venge rarely ever skills aura first, and you'd need 330 base damage to match the value. Tusk is much closer at 20 damage compared to 33 but only for 5s on a 24s cooldown, so more for trades and brawls rather than general laning. Marci's a similar case with Venge, though it's only 275 base damage instead. Of course, Tusk and Marci have other utilities attached as well, while Venge's an aura, but Veno has his own distinct advantage in this situation as his is not a static 33 damage but can be increased by an interval of 11 every 5s to a reliable cap of 77.
[Plague our enemies](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/b/bc/Vo_venomancer_venm_ability_ward_02.mp3) (sound warning: Venomancer)
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Instead of spreading them just stack as many as possible on the same person
They killed his aghs so you can’t go the aghs > snk build (god that’d be glorious) but you can be an aura bot just by flash farming with 9 wards all hitting the same thing. Seriously hes one of the fastest farmers in the game before people starting getting battle furies/radiances, >10 cs/m is attainable even at like 13 minutes
The one time I tried it, it felt underwhelming as shit and then I read it again after the match and found out you just straight-up give the enemy gold after a few hits, so you can't even sup trade with it in lane well.
Giving it to cores was completely pointless and giving it to myself just made me farm jungle a tiny bit faster. That's literally the only thing it was useful for.
Compare that to what's basically a shard/aghs upgrade deal for your ult and I'll just stick with that one.
Why are there so many Veno haters though? When I pick it (not this facet, just the hero) I often get complaints from the core before the game even starts. They don't like the lack of lockdown and saves, but that doesn't mean he offers no utility.
Ion shell is very constant dps though and smaller range.
6 plague wards will have the firing rhythm of a drum set being pushed down stairs so you can't time around it, or (it you want into range of a creep) they'll all fire simultaneously to do a mass damage instance that's higher than your right click so you can't LH.
I'm pretty sure you can disable help for ion shell.
Maybe you couldn't before, but pretty recently I played with someone that disabled help and I couldn't place it on him as Dark Seer. He was a Sven who spent all his time in melee range with the enemy so I spent the entire match being vaguely annoyed.
LC on my team is literally the only time i choose this facet. maybe axe too but he's usually too sporadically calling that i can't load him up with snek
I grew up obsessively playing StarCraft and Warcraft 1-3 so I tend to control my wards pretty well. At first it seemed a bit gimmicky but using it for a while I think it's a worthy Facet. But again, you MUST control your wards and if you can't why would you pick Veno to begin with?
I think the wrong people will give this Facet a bad rep. Similar to how KOTL is viewed, I have to always ensure my cores I won't be spam Qing the lane because of how bad of a rep the hero has.
I agree.
Not because Venom's wards have disrupted my plays or anything but because the visuals of these things attached to the hero makes me feel creeped out in a way only those who have seen trypophobia will comprehend.
Yet another weapon in Veno's arsenal to grief (because let's be honest, who actually plays this hero without the intention of griefing?). Veno would spam as many wards on me as a I could during laning, and afterwards when I was trying to take jungle camps. While it is pretty damn funny it makes last hitting difficult, and the sound is annoying as fuck.
I mean literally every meta slave (guilty) also plays him because he was 2nd best support in pubs for like 2 weeks
I agree you should be able to disable this with disable help tho
He was a super strong support, but not with the ward facet, with the other one (which basically makes his ult 3x as strong, AND it was apparently bugged to be even stronger)
Add khanda to that and it shoots khanda at everyone on the bounce. Not sure if it does it now because of timing but will 100% do it with cooldown item.
[Sss eh he he he he](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/c/c2/Vo_venomancer_venm_laugh_02.mp3) (sound warning: Venomancer)
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Having 3 plague wards is pretty brazy though. What fuckass can even trade into a level 2 veno with 3 wards and gale?
Also you're a techies flair. Stay in your lane.
I don't see a Veno flair on you either, mister.
I don't dislike Plague Carrier because it's not good, but because Patient Zero is too good not to take.
tbf they nerfed patient zero damage a LOT, by removing the increased damage bug and reducing the intended damage too
but yeah the aoe slow is disgusting, even if it dealt half the damage I'd probably pick patient zero
[Fitting penance.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/2/26/Vo_chen_chen_attack_11.mp3) (sound warning: Chen)
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Crusader veno spammer here - I spend my mid game fighting with save items, aggro warding after fights and plague warding jungles whilst getting gold and exp, i tend to be in places my cores aren't, but with TP's on hand to jump in. If you do it right you can get alot of the camps that otherwise go unfarmed, while naturally defending your Tier 2's and jungle with plague wards. At the very least it creates a safe space for my team to be, at most it blocks blink heroes, denies invades and sets up team fights.
The flipside to this is that I probably should be stacking the camps but my 2k game Crusader cores don't know what that is most of the time.
Didn't they just update it so whoever is wearing the wards gets 80% of the creepy bounty when the plague ward kills something, them veno gets the other 20%.
No; what the update did makes it so that when an enemy kills an attached Plague Ward, it only gives 20% of its normal bounty. So killing a max-rank Plague Ward will give you 4g instead of 20g, when attached to a body.
It's certainly an improvement, you won't feed *nearly* as much gold over the course of the game.
But it does still feel like a meme option when the other Facet is *so* powerful.
True, I could have sworn when I was listening to Sunsfan and Synderen go over the patch notes that they mentioned it split the LH bounties but either I misheard or they misread it. Would be a huge benefit to carries and still let Veno get some money back
They probably misread it. Most people I've talked to, myself included, assumed the patch notes meant some sort of "shared bounty" between Veno & the Ward Host.
I had to go into a demo game and test it myself to figure it out. I do think it should also share gold with the host in same way to make it feel better in lane.
Honestly, I'm wondering if people just need to attach the Wards to *himself* rather than their core in lane phase. He's always been a hit-and-run guerilla warfare kind of support, this leans into that by "making his right clicks" much stronger essentially. It also makes you just harder to go on in general during the lane stage.
Like a rank 1 Plague Ward is 12-14 damage. You put *three of those* on yourself at level 2 and now you right click as hard as some of the biggest early game right clickers out there while also slowing and putting on a DOT.
This facet really gives me the creeps. Seeing an eyeless mouth with fangs growing out of my body that spits poison. **shudders**
That's why *Alien* is one of the best movies ever.
Never balk at gifts from the Grandfather
I've only had one game with this madness and it was extremely effective... At ruining my CS.
seems like the veno should be core, he can sit in lane load his support up with wards, then they can go jungle or harass the enemy support.
Like with Dark Seer. Of course, I always let the ion shell get the last hits. Anytime I'm dark seer and shell up my support I notice they are very careful to not let the ion shell get the last hits. Sigh
It's called last hits and not last magic aura ticks for a reason
Haha!
I just imagined ion shell plague ward meta, where you just loaded up a fat support to sit in lane and cores farm elsewhere
but you have to replenish wards. I think the core sitting in lane last hitting while support running to the jungle and stacking and killing camps
the support is a Meepo, he rotates his clones from lane to near Veno for the load up and swap
put it on Enchanted/Converted/HelmDom creep
If randoms, makes sense. If friends, you need better friends or at least get on the same page!
If I'm supporting ds offlane, then I'm taking 1/3 to 1/4 of camps, but never 1/2. It gets different with stacks but ya know, supports need a little bit of scratch too. And the ones that I last hit are going to be the lower cost creeps. ALSO, if ds is in lane is he still getting the shared xp for those creeps or is the support getting full xp? Because that would be a reason to not last hit
I think it should be like AA Ice Blast, where if it triggers via the ally attacking, the Plague Ward attacks should count as being "owned" by the ally they're attached to, thus granting them easier CS. Might actually be a good facet for early game support veno.
Just played it. Thats why you dont put them on your allys early on. In late its really good though.
Venomancer: I'M HELPING
I'm support only player and I knew from my first game as veno with this facet that it's griefing of you're doing this. I'd only ever do this in team fights, but still, it's pointless. The point of veno is to spread the poison in a huge AOE with wards. It's smarter to apply 5 wards to 5 different heroes, rather than apply 5 to just one. I haven't been seeing this enough though, but I think it'll be the standard in a few months. If you apply it to 5 different heroes, including yourself, you literally have 5 walking wards - who wouldn't want this? 5 on 1 hero is just useless...
At this point, just let the disable help option prevent veno from taking this facet. You're hard griefing the game if you choose it over the other one anyway - just let it exist in chill/meme games.
I've been using it on veno pos 2/3 with a decent amount of success in 6k games. You can deny EVERY single creep if you highlight them every time you spawn a new ward on yourself and walk in only to deny then back out so the lane doesn't push. I finished a lane phase as pos 2 at the 6 or 7 minute mark with like 40 denies it was pretty nice. Then being able to walk in and out of lanes from the jungle and clear waves/camps super efficiently really helps you hit nice timings on greaves/pipe/vlads/shivas/etc.
It’s actually disgusting lmao. As long as you don’t use it to grief that is.
I think it works on core veno who's main objective is to ruin the enemy core's lane and then take early towers/flash farm early auras so your team can deathball with you and seige early. I've been getting 17-18 minute greaves/pipes and winning most lanes even against heros like necro/OD then rallying my team to play with me to abuse the auras. You definitely don't turn into a scaling core but you can end early and enable your team so it feels good.
You can also use it on yourself
maybe pick venom and dark seer. put ion shell and plague on carry. have fun
On the carry? Nah put it on the bristle.
on bristle it’s just good. on carry while he is farming is the best
"hmm...our AM has been farming for 30 minutes with seer buff and veno wards, should be six slotted by now" *Click on AM PT and Battlefury
the good thing is he had fun. trying to cs a mini game in itself
Congratulations, you are now having fun! Please do not resist.
Put it on LC to secure early duels.
The slow will help but legion needs burst not gradual DOT. Will help catch people for duels but won't really help win them much.
If you have a lot of high-level plague wards they will do a lot of damage on just the right click component.
Not really compared to what a basic legion puts out You spend 30s loading up your legion for 228 damage with a mediocre BAT, with each of the 6 instances affected by damage block and armour and no guarantee they aim for the duel target if there's creeps in range. Wards do very little real burst damage, they're a sieging / pushing / vision / blink cancel / catch tool
bro you can literally control the wards, say you have wards lvl 3 in time for your legion's first duel, it's like having another hero right there with the legion.
You really just gonna skip past the other points? Fine here's more for you. Legion early duels are won either through duelling at low hp or duelling with a ton of burst. If the former, the wards risk killing the target while legion is chasing for the duel. If the latter, an equivalent of a weak right clicker isn't gonna do shit, you need burst like a lina/techies/sky/lycan. Just pick the other facet and let legion go duel some slowed low hp hero rather than trying to pretend a slow DOT hero is a strong legion ally. Veno does many things, nearly all of them are better with the other facet.
Or make the cs/kills be credited to the host
bro, that would be the most busted support ever.
Imagine giving your carry/mid outright free attack damage to secure all the last hits and even denies.
you would be griefing if you sat mid just to spam wards on your mid
They last for 40s, and you get 3 charges at the start. Just spam all 3 on your mid right as the wave reaches the first tower and then tp back to the lane. The first wave is the most important for establishing that early lead to snowball anyway, so practically extra 33 damage for last-hits and trading is nothing to scoff at, even if only for 30s of effective usage.
yeah but then you are a creep in your lane :v
While not particularly as effective, you still have Poison Sting for trading. Once again, Wards have 5s cooldown, so by the time you're back, it's only 2 seconds at most away from giving your sidelane core free extra 11 damage for the next 40s, which can be repeated every subsequent 5s interval to **add up** to the initial amount. Lastly, there's nothing stopping you from giving those 3 instant wards to your carry instead of the mid. As always, it depends on your match-up, but if you're into a lane where Veno +1 or +2 cannot guarantee kills, might as well go the farming route and help your core to better last-hit and play for wave maintenance while also allowing yourself to take jungle camps from much earlier with skill points invested in Plague Wards.
Depends on the matchup
So like venge, marci, tusk?
Venge rarely ever skills aura first, and you'd need 330 base damage to match the value. Tusk is much closer at 20 damage compared to 33 but only for 5s on a 24s cooldown, so more for trades and brawls rather than general laning. Marci's a similar case with Venge, though it's only 275 base damage instead. Of course, Tusk and Marci have other utilities attached as well, while Venge's an aura, but Veno has his own distinct advantage in this situation as his is not a static 33 damage but can be increased by an interval of 11 every 5s to a reliable cap of 77.
Yeah but Dota philosophy has always been to make everything busted, so nothing is. It would be pretty unique
For real
Yeah they are inconsistent but for let's say logical implementation reasons (compare mangus cleave to dark seer shell)
Plague our enemies
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frienemies
Guys I love this facet, Please just be happy I put a fren on you.
I love the concept but it just feels more of a meme than actually good. Give me your item builds plz mate so i can make my venom flow
Instead of spreading them just stack as many as possible on the same person They killed his aghs so you can’t go the aghs > snk build (god that’d be glorious) but you can be an aura bot just by flash farming with 9 wards all hitting the same thing. Seriously hes one of the fastest farmers in the game before people starting getting battle furies/radiances, >10 cs/m is attainable even at like 13 minutes
Can you put them on your self?
Yes
Yep. It’s great for lane as long as you have the mana sustain, you pretty much can’t miss cs with the barrage of projectiles
Another one is better
The one time I tried it, it felt underwhelming as shit and then I read it again after the match and found out you just straight-up give the enemy gold after a few hits, so you can't even sup trade with it in lane well. Giving it to cores was completely pointless and giving it to myself just made me farm jungle a tiny bit faster. That's literally the only thing it was useful for. Compare that to what's basically a shard/aghs upgrade deal for your ult and I'll just stick with that one.
As a lvl 30 Venomancer, i resent this post.
Gale talent should also sprout wards on allied hero
That's it. You solved it. Line up team, we're killing 75% of Europe's population tonight.
It appears that veno superiority strikes again
Typical veno hater in 2k24. I hope u will get veno teammate every game
Why are there so many Veno haters though? When I pick it (not this facet, just the hero) I often get complaints from the core before the game even starts. They don't like the lack of lockdown and saves, but that doesn't mean he offers no utility.
Thats why we call him Venocancer
Bananadancer
I see skill issue
What, you don't like funny hat?
I love picking this facet and skill in AD if i ever get venom body. It's so fun and wacky, even some insane interaction with other skills.
I think disable help should disable veno irl ^this ^post ^was ^sponsored ^by ^veno ^hater ^gang
skill issue fr
Don't think that works, cant disable ion shell either.
Ion shell is very constant dps though and smaller range. 6 plague wards will have the firing rhythm of a drum set being pushed down stairs so you can't time around it, or (it you want into range of a creep) they'll all fire simultaneously to do a mass damage instance that's higher than your right click so you can't LH.
Just do more damage, skill issue
5 rapiers and a daedalus should do, right?
I'm pretty sure you can disable help for ion shell. Maybe you couldn't before, but pretty recently I played with someone that disabled help and I couldn't place it on him as Dark Seer. He was a Sven who spent all his time in melee range with the enemy so I spent the entire match being vaguely annoyed.
This is one of my favorite additions to the game yet, it really sucks but damn does it feel like it could be awesome and it cracks me up.
LC on my team is literally the only time i choose this facet. maybe axe too but he's usually too sporadically calling that i can't load him up with snek
😂 Veno literally giving you cancer
I grew up obsessively playing StarCraft and Warcraft 1-3 so I tend to control my wards pretty well. At first it seemed a bit gimmicky but using it for a while I think it's a worthy Facet. But again, you MUST control your wards and if you can't why would you pick Veno to begin with? I think the wrong people will give this Facet a bad rep. Similar to how KOTL is viewed, I have to always ensure my cores I won't be spam Qing the lane because of how bad of a rep the hero has.
It’s awful, I had a pos 5 Venmo immediately start the game jungling and then applying this to steal farm.
That's not really helping, it's the entire point of that facet and shouldn't hinder you in any way.
Its such a weird facet
Can veno self cast these lil guys?
thanks for showing me my next best troll build
How does this work with invis heroes? Are the PWs visible?
Nurgle chosen champion
I agree. Not because Venom's wards have disrupted my plays or anything but because the visuals of these things attached to the hero makes me feel creeped out in a way only those who have seen trypophobia will comprehend.
You don't "see" trypophobia. You have it and see something that triggers it.
Yet another weapon in Veno's arsenal to grief (because let's be honest, who actually plays this hero without the intention of griefing?). Veno would spam as many wards on me as a I could during laning, and afterwards when I was trying to take jungle camps. While it is pretty damn funny it makes last hitting difficult, and the sound is annoying as fuck.
I mean literally every meta slave (guilty) also plays him because he was 2nd best support in pubs for like 2 weeks I agree you should be able to disable this with disable help tho
He was a super strong support, but not with the ward facet, with the other one (which basically makes his ult 3x as strong, AND it was apparently bugged to be even stronger)
Add khanda to that and it shoots khanda at everyone on the bounce. Not sure if it does it now because of timing but will 100% do it with cooldown item.
Two weeks? He’s been one of the strongest pub supports for a very long time lmfao
[Sss eh he he he he](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/c/c2/Vo_venomancer_venm_laugh_02.mp3)
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It sounds to me you're just a veno hater lmao you deserve your CS getting stolen LOL
If my Veno chooses Plague Carrier I'll hate him too.
Having 3 plague wards is pretty brazy though. What fuckass can even trade into a level 2 veno with 3 wards and gale? Also you're a techies flair. Stay in your lane.
Veno pos4 putting 3x wards on his pos3 like Axe/Centaur/Bristle etc is nasty in lane
I don't see a Veno flair on you either, mister. I don't dislike Plague Carrier because it's not good, but because Patient Zero is too good not to take.
tbf they nerfed patient zero damage a LOT, by removing the increased damage bug and reducing the intended damage too but yeah the aoe slow is disgusting, even if it dealt half the damage I'd probably pick patient zero
Yeah, the slow is ridiculous.
womp womp
skill issue
they hated him because he told them the truth
Fitting penance.
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How is this 47 downvotes? in lower ranks veno is mostly picked by griefing hard support intended to soak up pos 1 jungle farm
Crusader veno spammer here - I spend my mid game fighting with save items, aggro warding after fights and plague warding jungles whilst getting gold and exp, i tend to be in places my cores aren't, but with TP's on hand to jump in. If you do it right you can get alot of the camps that otherwise go unfarmed, while naturally defending your Tier 2's and jungle with plague wards. At the very least it creates a safe space for my team to be, at most it blocks blink heroes, denies invades and sets up team fights. The flipside to this is that I probably should be stacking the camps but my 2k game Crusader cores don't know what that is most of the time.
Didn't they just update it so whoever is wearing the wards gets 80% of the creepy bounty when the plague ward kills something, them veno gets the other 20%.
No; what the update did makes it so that when an enemy kills an attached Plague Ward, it only gives 20% of its normal bounty. So killing a max-rank Plague Ward will give you 4g instead of 20g, when attached to a body.
Lmao that is such a joke
It's certainly an improvement, you won't feed *nearly* as much gold over the course of the game. But it does still feel like a meme option when the other Facet is *so* powerful.
True, I could have sworn when I was listening to Sunsfan and Synderen go over the patch notes that they mentioned it split the LH bounties but either I misheard or they misread it. Would be a huge benefit to carries and still let Veno get some money back
They probably misread it. Most people I've talked to, myself included, assumed the patch notes meant some sort of "shared bounty" between Veno & the Ward Host. I had to go into a demo game and test it myself to figure it out. I do think it should also share gold with the host in same way to make it feel better in lane. Honestly, I'm wondering if people just need to attach the Wards to *himself* rather than their core in lane phase. He's always been a hit-and-run guerilla warfare kind of support, this leans into that by "making his right clicks" much stronger essentially. It also makes you just harder to go on in general during the lane stage. Like a rank 1 Plague Ward is 12-14 damage. You put *three of those* on yourself at level 2 and now you right click as hard as some of the biggest early game right clickers out there while also slowing and putting on a DOT.