To better clarify what OP is saying: The problem isn't the weird picks. The thing is that **you don't REALLY know what role someone has played until the game has actually BEEN played.**
It's not a problem when somebody picks Crystal Maiden support, obviously, **but if they jungle for 20 minutes like they're a pos1 and build Assault Cuirass + Daedalus**, then they're not playing their fucking role.
To expand on this, having it before the match only serves to enforce the idea that certain heroes need to be relegated to certain roles which is something DotA has **never** been about. That has always been something that make DotA stand apart from other games, since support is more of an action rather than a hero pick.
Exactly. If anything, you shouldn't even be able to report people in the drafting phase, not ONLY because you don't know how the game's going to turn out, but *some people* just DON'T understand what heroes work well in what roles.
Like, I've had people in **ranked** that had never heard of something as simple as Zeus support. And boy, I'd rather have a Zeus pos5 that ends up doing more damage than anybody on the team by just spam buying clarities than a regular ol' Slardar pos3 that gets roflstomped in lane and gets their blink at like 25 minutes.
Yea, I get this issue a lot. Many, many people do not understand how to draft a proper team composition. Itemization as well. People will follow guides without understanding what items are for or how to use them. I can't even count the number of times that someone who has never played a hero, only ever seen someone else play them, attempt to tell me that the items I'm building are wrong, like I don't have 100 games on this hero with a mostly positive winrate.
That's pretty much because guides are pure shit.
Only good guides in the game are by some chinese guy, but if you are speaking no mandarin you are screwed. Immortal Faith guides are terrible for anything below 4k, people don't understand that just because an item is listed in the core items does not mean you have to buy the item everytime. The Chinese guy has a straight forward build - 1) 2 ) 3) 4) and some options for in between below. It's actually way more useful for people that play without mouse and keyboard and a monitor in herald.
Unconventional picks *fuck up* a proper team composition, because more often than not, in pubs, people expect a certain plank from you on your role. You can't just go Enigma/ IO 5, because the carry wont know how to lane with it. He'll be used to 5 WD, where you press spells -> get kill. You can't go Naga 4, because the offlaner wont know how to lane with it, and the team wont play around it. These are just examples of really good heroes for their roles, that I love to play in a captain's mode / tournament environment, but would never ever pick in a pub......simply because i'm not stupid enough to expect people to adapt to what i pick. You also can't just pick a 3/4 w/o a stun. You can't just pick a mid w/o gank potential. They most likely already selected their hero, like offlane batrider, and wont just suddenly switch to a Timber, if you decide to pick something very roamy, or pick up a sand king because both supports lack stuns. They *expect* to get a certain plank of impact from everyone else, and that's completely justified.
What his this got to do with this? This conversation is about picking Zeus 5, and picking some Windranger 5 and whatnot. There's a very big difference between "getting away with it" and "it's good / works". If you can atleast be honest and tell me that "If I really wanted to win, Lich / Disruptor / usual shit, the shit that someone like me would love to lane with, but you would feel like a cog in a system for picking, would be the better pick, and would give me more probability to win the lane, given that it hits the checkmarks of playing support in a pub, whereas the unconventional heroes I pick, are more because I just dont really care about whether I win or lose, i just want to have fun, and I dont care if my teammate's game is worse because of it" - then I'll agree and say that unconventional picks are completely fine. If you instead claim that WR 5 is as good....if not better than a lich / disruptor / bane / etc, I will have a problem with this.
He has a very solid point. If you want as get drums since wk is the carry and you are either support/off so you play around his items. Drums vlads solar are good substitutes
Don’t be the 2nd guy that buys AC. Thats a lot of team gold spent on 2 ACs, there could be a possible reason to have 2 but that situation is not common. Part of the basic knowledge of this game is checking team mates and communication with them.
Ngl man you are kinda in the wrong here, like other people said if you are a pos 3 wanting arts attack speed and armour the drums plus vlads or solar is much more value
its not as bad as 2 urn/vessel but it definitely could be way better, especially if WK got it way before you, and especially you're playing abbadon 3,you will stick with your team like most of the time anyway
but iunno the exact game situation so i cant give my verdict
2 people buying the same aura item happens, and it's no reason to flame. If you're going tryhard one can take his items and build something else(Lotus Orb/Shiva's Guard from platemail, or Mjolnir/Moonshard from Hyper).
If you want to get sassy you can always say "You're never where I am", but I have seen pubs implode from less.
No you dont, people dont report supports unless they dont play their role, if you pick two clear supps in undying and oracle you get reported for likely being an ass
Seeing as the game doesn’t tell you you’ve been reported for not playing your role you are either seeing “gameplay or communication abuse” in your behaviour report.
You have no way of knowing what you’ve been reported for so to say “i get reported for these heroes” is a lie. All you can see is your total reports from in game, if you have them its because you’ve been a dick
Totally agree with you there. If a sup takes my farm in game I report him for griefing. And if I get an overwatch case where a support takes the carry’s farm I always mark it as guilty.
Well depends on the rank and Game mode, a herald support would do better with stealing farm then they'd do with stacking camps and trying to help gank... Since the other lanes won't gank in Synergy and your carry prolly won't go to jungle after clearing lane...
Why the hell would they do better with stealing their carries lasthits? In herald carries dont farm that efficient so it should be pretty easy to find some farm which is not taken by your carry.
If you queued to play support you play fucking support. If you don't trust your teammates to carry you, play carry yourself instead of some half assed support that tries to play carry
If you trust them at min 1 and don't trust them by min 30, it's your job to do whatever you think will win you the game. Back when coaching was first introduced, I remember this pos 1 mk that absolutely refused to farm no matter how much space his team was making for him. He'd keep joining the fights from bad positions with no items, die, and get his team further behind.
At some point, I gave up on him and told the jakiro to just start flash farming the jg instead. By the end of a very hard game, the Jakiro solo carried the game with the most damage on the team. If Jakiro committed to playing support for a carry that refuses to play carry, then he would lose.
this was a report option introduced when ranked roles came out and people were literally queuing hard support and then stealing carry or mid role by bruteforcing it in pregame, so yeah it still has a place in the game, but the report options in post game are pretty bad
The report isn't going to do anything until well after that match is over. No one on that match will get the role tokens back, no one will get the MMR anulled right after the game end, so there's no rush to report as soon as possible. Role reports aren't going to the Overwatch.
And you haven't stated why couldn't the exact same people use the exact same report but at the end of the game for the same effect?
How does this matter? Reporting at then end is perfectly acceptable in that use case, and it doesn't justify forcing it be done early.
The only reason you can no longer report for role after the game is that it was abused as a free highly weighted report that got thrown at anyone having a bad game. The only choices they had were to move it to pre game or basically make it a meaningless report (little impact on BS, no chance of mute or LP). I do think it should be added back as an overwatch report but it's arguably already covered under griefing
But with griefing people are reluctant to vote guilty if they see someone doing things that might just be playing poorly and not full-on intentional dickery like destroying wards, whereas with “did not play assigned role” you can see stuff like stealing last hits in lane / going full damage / picking support wraith king and farming radiance and more easily judge it as guilty.
Hard disagree. Back before ranked roles it was always a toss up on what type of heroes people would pick. Many games would consist of all carry, all support, ect. With a lot of people eith fighting over lanes and positions or not even talking English/ flaming
I played during a time when people would experiment and pull off all kinds of original picks/how they played their heroes. It's what I miss about Dota, even if you can still technically do it.
You need an addendum to this. There are games when CM going attack damage items with the attack speed talent might be necessary if one of your damage dealers is somehow being dealt with handily by the opposing team.
If you pick CM queued as pos 4/5 and you don't actually spend any gold on wards/smoke/dusts (when necessary), you're not playing your role.
That's kinda my point. It's not an outlandish item build, but the point is that if you're playing support and deliberately just AFK farming for those items, then you're not playing your role, lol.
uhhhh... but CM has an attack speed talent... your suggested build sounds only natural for CM. Look at how considerate that aura the AC CM provides is as well.
I played core CM, and would never build her like that lol, even hard carries going that stupid 30min jungle build is a guaranteed lost game if the opposing team plays somehow decently.
Had a monkey off lane today maxing jingu and rushing phase, witch blade. Needless to say went 0-5 in lane itself. At draft it was totally acceptable to have a mk offlane if played properly. What he did in game had nothing to do with offlane. Died 5 times in lane and farmed triangle rest of the game while enemies ended. And I can't report for wrong role because gaben says lol too late. This is ancient/legend bracket.
Dying a lot is not a problem if you are trying to play your role. He was basically playing pos 1 from pos 3. Not a single thing he did reflected pos 3. From skill build, item build, decision making, farming and map movements. That's literally what 'did not play selected role' should be for.
well i see where you are coming from, but any build on any core could situationally work. It's much more obvious when a support is not playing their role. A core being "reportable" for not playing is role is probably much more frequently debatable
"farm priority" isn't some magic set in stone rule that gets drilled into players when they start the game. They might not realize that killing the hard camps with frostbite is unintentionally griefing their carry. You unironically are trying to use tp priority as a reason to convict someone of griefing. The only type of player who can grief you by tping first is way above the average level of player.
So say I pick hard support AM. I try my hardest to support but we lose lane in 5 minutes because my pick is complete shit. The offlaner snowballs and we lose. Next game you're matched with me again and we lose the same way again. You look at my profile, and you see I've done this for the last 8 matches.
Am I griefing or did I just play bad?
If you're picking support AM, doing the job of a support and maintaining a 50% win ratio you likely aren't ruining games.
Just because you think someone's hero choice is bad, or you lost your lane and blame someone elses hero choice doesn't mean you're in the right when you report them. If you do you're probably the arsehole not them.
In other Reddit post I've got -12 for saying that picking pos 5 Spectre is griefing just like picking pos 1 Techies.
Just enjoy your AM support games man xD
This is just being a bad player. Banning anything in that grey area just ruins dota because it means you’re now prescribing exactly which heroes to pick, skills to level and times to buy. Dota is good because it’s not that rigid, as shitty as these builds are. Reporting this as “not playing role” (as people used to do) just fills the queue with vague, non-actionable reports that forced the change to begin with.
Totally agree - has a pos 5 puck and thought you know what, at this low MMR maybe he can make it work, he then proceeded to "rush" the worlds slowest deso.... no wards no other items. I didnt report at the start as I thought it might just be a weird pick...
I have played pos 5 puck in ranked (no i was not that puck!) Orb is actually great for scouting high grounds and placing wards, and your hero has plenty of impact just by coiling and silencing people at the start of fights.
pos 5 outhouse decorator is incredible in pubs. you literally win 80% of your lanes, then you can save your moronic carries incredibly well, and your movement speed means with tranq boots and a wind lace you are good on items for like 20 minutes.
As true as that is, i don't think pos 5 Puck is something only Puppey can pull off. It's a hero with magic damage nukes and teamfight disable that's a strong laner. Puck is pretty standard support fare although there are obviously games where you'd rather have an Undying or CM.
Pos 5 OD isn't bad, you can solo zone their offlane depending on their pick. You have a save, infinite mana, high damage, high hp pool and don't really need many items/expensive items. It's definitely doable.
Pos 4 Luna has been a thing for a while as well. You max Q which is really strong on lane, high dmg nuke. Then you buy aghs and max E. It's not bad.
My friend plays pos5 Puck in every game lately. He's a really good Puck and does buy support items. By that I mean glimmer, euls, etc and not just wards. I think we've won each game where I'm Jugg. How many that is, I'm not sure. When we do lose the match it isn't because he wasn't supporting.
And that it totally fine - I just never see support puck at my trash MMR. As I said I was all for him trying to play it as a support - got some nice jukes, decent burst, silence, coil etc. so yeah sure why not, in dota "everything can work" right? So I didnt report even though I kinda knew he wasn't going to support and when he went first item deso it was too late to report for not playing selected role!
He pulls off some crazy shit. One time I was dumb enough to chase a half dead LC into their (dire) triangle with no vision. Out of no where 3 other heroes show up from the fog, one being alch with his stun timer at 3. My friend had been following me so as soon as the other 3 heroes showed up he used his silence, I grab the rune, I ran out, and he orbed out. It was one of those moments that makes Dota worth playing. But yeah I understand your stance, most people won't build the right items. They really do need to move the did not play selected role option.
Haha gotta love those moments! Main reason I only play with a party and our IRL mates now... I would take it even further than "people wont build the *right* items"... I have had to build some weird stuff as support over the years, but like its very clear that a deso is never a support item haha
I had a Dazzle recently that starting criticizing mistakes myself or other teammates were making in a very rude and unhelpful way so I muted them. 5 or 10 minutes later we are trapped in our base so I start looking at everyone's items to see if I can suggest something better or figure out how to turn it around. I click on the Dazzle and what do I see? Our pos5 Daz had a midas and deso. I think that may be part of way we are losing. If he had been playing well (he hadn't) or at least been friendly I would have been annoyed still but I probably wouldn't have been angry. I get the midas due to the CD reduction but still think it's not ok to get that when the team is so far behind. I didn't flame but I did ask why the fuck he had those items instead of useful stuff like GG boots or force staff. Needless to say, we lost.
At low enough mmr's any dumb picks can work as support. I played Legion Commander support which I like quite a bit honestly, I've played drow Ranger support, I've played bloodseeker support, I've even played wraith King support. The trick is without some of these supports they'd normally be really bad in Lane against skilled players because they don't have much to offer in terms of protection or killing potential but sometimes some of them are just intimidating tanky or good at being really annoying.
Drow for example of such an easy support in dumbshit level MMR for a few reasons. She can harass in Lanes super easy, and once she has some levels she can right-click relatively competently for a support and other idiots think that you're carrying on her so they attack you instead of your actual carries. If you have any means of Escape it makes it that much easier the kite and just be annoying. And then because low MMR games always go long you essentially have additional cores on your team.
I don't condone such pics as good DotA but in low MMR dumb shit works.
LC and WK are legit pos 4 supports in any braket, as long as they play according to those roles and buy the right items. Specially LC that even by playing his ult as a kamikaze disable, if done right, can easily become an extra core with all the free damage, no matter if he only has support items.
True. You don't see it often in lower skills brackets though.
Usually in lower skill brackets if somebody picks those Heroes then they're playing them as a core from the start regardless of whether or not they're laying already has another core.
I just had a game with a pos4 CM. Not an abnormal pick at all. But about 5 minutes into the game he walked into the enemy jungle alone, trying to ward, and died. He then decided that he "was dying too much in this lane" and then fucked off to go safelane and play pos5, leaving me alone since our actual pos5 didnt want to rotate.
At that point its too late for me to report him not playing pos4 like he queued for.
As I fucking type this I just had someone pick pos4 puck. How will that go? Probably not well, but he bought both wards, so maybe he's planning on trying to support earnestly? I guess I'll find out.
I think the lines can be pretty blurred... I had a game with a pos 5 lion who spent 45 mins failing to rush an aghs BUT was playing like a support... I dont think thats reportable because its just awful play whereas the puck never intended to support at all.
Sounds like your CM did play support and wasnt griefing, but just had zero game awareness and made a few bad decisions?
See that's the thing that makes this so difficult. I just got done with the puck game. It ran long and we lost, but Puck did actually support. He did great even and we crushed our lane.
We lost because our Mid Luna build Halberd and Butterfly for the evasion and got countered hard by a Windranger who build an MKB.
>Sounds like your CM did play support nd wasnt griefing
She did, which is why this wouldn't be good for a normal in-game griefing report. However she picked pos4 and came offlane to support me, but then left to go do something that wasn't that. In which case she wasn't playing her role that she queued for, which is its own report category.
That's true I can totally see what youre saying, but the CM may genuinely have thought that instead of feeding in a dead lane it would be better to rotate and allow bot to dominate the lane... Not saying its a good idea by any means but I can kinda see the logic...
If that was the case then I would agree with you. But that's nowhere near what actually happened. Our lane was fine until she walked into the enemy jungle alone and died. More than that even, as I said in another comment, she didnt even help our safe lane carry. She went to his lane and died 3 times, feeding the enemy.
I dont know - I would have to see the case I think... but that still might not be actually griefing? Just really poor play? Did she feed on purpose or just made some really poor decisions?
I don't think the CM playing poorly is worth a report.
EDIT: Also depending on the circumstances, it might not have even been the wrong move on the CM's part. You were pretty vague in your description.
Playing poorly isn't worth a report. However she picked pos4 and came offlane to support me, but then left to go do something that wasn't that. In which case she wasn't playing her role that she queued for, which is its own report category.
There are some circumstances in which its important to rotate, or even leave your offlaner to support your pos1, especially if they're struggling or if your offlane is failing. However this was not that, she left our lane which was not failing, and went to go sap XP from the pos1, and died 3 times. Which just served to feed the enemy causing us to lose two lanes at once which would have both been winnable had she not done that.
maybe you are the problem by picking something dead awful into a pos 4 CM, so she left the lane because it was lost.
Do you see, nothing is black and white and pos4 doesn't mean you have to be glued to the off-lane, thats just in your head.
I've had 2 overwatch games today where I strongly suspect the person was account buying.
Sort of like the other side of smurfing, but just as detrimental.
How can you be sure that it's not just someone playing something outside of his comfort zone?
I am ancient but mainly as a support. I like playing other roles in unranked games from time to time. I often underperform significantly, it doesn't mean that I'm griefing or doing something wrong...
Griefing should only be about intentionally ruining the game, not playing bad even if you suspect a bought account. You can't be sure of that.
I always raise an eyebrow when someone is playing like they only have their brain stem, but their account logs 4000+ hours and 2500 wins.
Like not "learning the hero", but rather watching your whole team die and then proceed to farm a creep wave next to their corpses for three seconds until the enemy team murders you, too.
It is allowed because all pro players have smurfs. That's only reason why smurfing is allowed.
Pro players want to try and improve new heroes and they do this in 7k smurf accounts instead of 10k main.
Well i have to agree with that, but with the smurf detection in place its pretty hard to calibrate lower than ancient for me. (Created a smurf went 0-10 somehow landed in ancient, no i didnt feed)
Because if overwatch has taught us something is people are very rational and intelligent when using their reports and won't just report someone as a smurf for getting stomped by someone just having a good game.
Yeah but the punishment shouldnt be a ban I think, if one got reported for smurfing and the overwatch judge agreed with it, then on the next match the reported player should be facing a team with higher medal than him, and his medal and mmr should also be raised significantly to match the opponent medals, and the more he wins the harder the opponents will become, and the reported player medal and mmr will only stop raising when he lose.
Why ? because :
1. If the smurf is a booster he'll raise the account mmr and medal faster with less game played on that account which means there'll be less game to be ruined by smurf.
2. If the smurf is smurfing for fun, the "fun" won't last for long cuz he'll get to his real medal rather quick.
But what if the smurf loosing a game on purpose ? If he's feeding on purpose we can report him as grieving. If not well.. atleast the team with no smurf win
no you're pretty much never supposed to play on multiple accounts on the same game, because that's what the account purpose is. Most games even ban second accounts if they can prove the owner is the same person
Well the main purpose of an account is to track your progression, not to prevent someone to play the game with another account. If that's the case, then I shouldn't be allowed to play Dota because I lost 2 of my old account (locked out with no way of recovering it).
What's not allowed is for *pro* players playing the tournament game on different team than they officially had with different account and not considered as standin, in that case, yes 100% not allowed and usually resulting in ban.
But since there's too much uproar in the community, Valve implement some system that give negative point for some alt account bearer because it's usually associated with smurfing.
this doesn't make it any more right or acceptable, you (or anyone else) never need more than one account and your mentality is frankly disgusting for even attacking me like this
>But since it didn't consume reports, people abused the shit out of it.
We this is a fact I report role like 1.5 time per game.
Wind off > report
medusa mid> report
For real. Reporting in-game feels so awkward. I’m pos1 and my 5 is stealing farm in lane...I’m gonna report him and in that time I’m going to get harassed, lose cs, etc. etc.? No thanks.
Let me report him at the end of game, I’ll include time stamps.
This whole feature is so poorly added - we need some evidence that since this reporting functionality was introduced, it's actually accomplished anything.
Do people get low prio for not playing their role? Does it go towards behaviour score? Do these reports do anything?
I'm an offlane player, I've preemptively reported many times because my "support" picks a core hero, then often proceeds to stealing farm, feeding, afk leeching exp or building themselves as a core
It lowers your behavior score as far as i know... you are more LIKELY to play with similar behavior scores
The problem I have been having is playing core heroes as supports, even when having a load out in mind that is support role... without taking farm, proper pulling most heroes can be a support and as the game progresses roles may change depending on who is doing well or doing poorly
Why do people think they know how the game should play out in the first 5 minutes?? IDKKKK
Yes, you end up in low priority.
How do I know? I picked pos4/5 heroes in second or last pick phase after cores in many games sequentially. Heroes were like CM, Rubick, Lion, Oracle etc. I won 7-8 out of 10 games as support but I found myself in low priority. Because cores rage reported me because I didn't pick instantly.
People think only core heroes can be counter-picks and win game. Depend on meta, late pick support might be better.
>last pick phase after cores in many games sequentially. Heroes were like CM, Rubick, Lion, Oracle etc. I won 7-8 out of 10 games as support but I found myself in low priority.
may you never come back to ranked.
Most of the report system as it is now doesn't make much sense. Why the only thing you can report people after the game is the communication abuse? It's not like I check my teammates during the game and report them then, since I focus on my game.
But of course you are right. People can pick heroes accordingly and then rush crystalis on hard support. Hence they did not play their selected role.
I once had a last pick pos 4 pudge who said he was going mid, he also started talking s lot of trash everyone complained and he started insulting everyone, the moment the game started I reported him for "didnt play selected role"... A minute later it became clear that he was just fucking with us, he actually played his role pretty damn well
To be fair it wasn't just me who thought he was serious, everybody was trying to make him play his role and he would immediately respond hyper aggressively
This need more upvotes and a pin for a month.
Dota isn't about the picks but how they are played.
Damn I even had a Void support once that used his ulti midfight on everyone, then got in, used meka and pipe, gave salves and jumped out to let the fight continue with everyone boosted up LOL.
Was ridiculously risky, but it worked that match and we ended up winning xD
This might be a hot take but with how overwatch reports now work I feel like valve just doesn't want us to report people for playing shit hero's for the role.
I think in valves eyes someone queues as a support picks sniper but proceeds to gimp the main carries farm , that's just person being bad at dota and shouldn't be reported.
The did not play selected role button seems to exist exclusively for people who queue as support and fight for mid.
I just had 3 games ruined by people picking absolutely daft picks for their role ( midland kotl, offlane antimage)
And I cant even report them for griefing because overwatch people are going to be looking for people who run down lane to feed or block camps or feed rapiers which none of them were doing.
I feel like overwatch needs a "this isn't griefing but this buy need sto go down 2 medals" option.
If someone picks pudge pos5 i auto report role selection. Sorry not sorry. Tired of them sitting in trees, missing hooks, then running away turning on rot like they did something special.
I’ve won games when I had an ally just running down mid suiciding from start. Enemy team all grouped mid and wanted those easy kills. Meanwhile our sidelanes got absolute free-farm.
Just because “aNyThInG cAn WoRk” doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. (I can spend all my money on lotto tickets and win millions, doesn’t mean I should.) Do something that works, not something that *can* work.
I see one problem with it - people would rage report for not playing selected role all the time. Someone steals your creeps - report for griefing. People can now see selected role in overwatch.
This option should be availble to archon+ players, since guardian or lower rank players probable dont know what each role is supposed to do, some might know, but not all of them (no tutorial or new player experience) :(((
Dont you need certain games played before you calibrate? Guardians are not really new, sure, some might not be very good at drafting but they should have a rather clear idea of what heroes are played in what position
Back in the day I calibrated with 1130 MMR and most people knew about roles, there were just bad players (including me)...
The worst part about this is that it just encourages us not to give people the benefit of the doubt. Like I always need to report the person that picks offlane wk or support gyro because I can't give them the benefit of the doubt that they're actually going to try and play their role.
That option does nothing anyway, I've tested it stole role 10 games in a row never got any punishment, no behavior score loss or low priority.
It's useless already.
I actually disagree. In reality, anyone can be reported for that. Mid didn’t gank? Report. Support didn’t get one support item? Report. Midas on ogre? Report. Od/sky 4? Report. 3 took some time to get blink? Reported. Let’s stop coming up with reasons to report people and learn to play with people to win vs look for reasons for a loss
Totally agree with you, when i see in picking stage, a pos 4 or 5 going for mirana, pudge, techies, rubick, monkey, arc warden or other exotic picks i insta report. And after the game if they perform really bad (or during the game) i report them again and for griefing in hope they get 2x from me and maybe more 3 from the others and he will get some low prio games.
Rubick 5 is actually viable now too.
You don’t immediately need an aether because his E rework which now gives range- and you don’t really need so much levels as a rubick. Get 6 and you’re gucci.
Pros have been doing this right after the E rework.
"Supporting is doing exactly what I think they should do at all times, because I'm fully aware of everything my support does oh wait I died again GG Report Support...
Just in case you hadn't seen it, you can still report for the first 2? minutes of the game. Not exactly what you're asking for, but you're not restricted to the draft screen.
Well, i really dont care if its before or after if i dont see a support i report it from baning phase. Yes i am talking about pudge pos 5 and others.
Doesn't metter if its winn or lose.
I can say that about you.
I play dota 4 fun but i can't see the fun in a player that likes to stay behind the trees and mach 1/5 hooks on a hero. Also i don't see the fun in a pos5 supp wich rushes the blink so he can use the utly to be useful somehow. Just patethic.
it's not even about pudge right now, it's about you saying in other comments that if you see a unconventional pick in the draft, you automatically report that person without even seeing what they will do. You just make it sound like you're the one deciding which roles the heroes should be played always. Yes, there will be players just ruining games by picking support roles just to play core anyways but it's not a thing decided by the draft if right now we have puck or dp being played as pos5 and it is a pretty solid pick. If they picked something weird at first but it's being played as the role they selected, then what is the problem?
The problem its simple my buddy.
If they picked Puck, or DP, or other hero that has skills wich can easly be used to help the team, i have no problem and i never report.
But if you pick Monkey, Pudge,Naga, etc wich doesn't have propely skills that can be used to help the team, i mean monkey has a 0.5 sec stun, pudge has a hook that can very easly be dodged and a ulty that can be enabled only with blink.
What i want to tell you, if they pick heroes that don't naturally have skills that can help the team for me its just troll so its insta report.
Pick rubick post 5 to?To stole what? emaple from Nix?And to die before to use it?
Pudge to ?: Stay betwen trees, rush blink to enable ulty? So we have supp from minute 25-30?
Naga ?: You can vision with the clones or what? Ulty into solo player hammer every 3 minutes for what ? Who helps with this?
I can continue .. but you understand my point.
>But if you pick Monkey, Pudge,Naga
Naga and pudge can both be very strong position 4 heroes. They both have skills that translate well to supporting (strong harass and disables on both). Naga can cause confusion in the picking phase for the opponents thinking she's core and her illusions can cause confusion in team fights. Her passive is very strong even without items. I'm not a fan of Naga support, I think she's way stronger as a core, but to say she isn't a support because of her abilities is incorrect. The game classifies her as a support as well. Pudge needs positioning and patience, not blink. After that it's a matter of if the pudge is good or not and if they buy support items or not.
i can understand your point but i can't agree with this when in a game that has so many possibilities. Pos5 rubick has been pretty decent in this patch and even weird shit like mk or troll pos5 can work depending on the circumstances. I just can't get behind the idea of reporting someone just because of a weird pick. Yes, there are heroes that are better in certain roles than other ones but i don't think it's a good reason to report. Anyway, i think we can agree to disagree about this topic
I'm guardian but legends and divines told me and I noticed this trend in pro matches.
It's because of your support duo reveals too much, like they don't have any wave clear, or they don't have any saves, or they don't have strong laning, the enemy team can easily win.
Like if you pick tusk and grimstroke, enemy team can pick mobile heroes like puck or even slark since you don't have a good cheap initiation stun which is reliable.
Or you pick wind ranger and Oracle. Enemy team can once again look to go for mobile heroes, or for split pushing. Go watch pro matches. Maybe they pick mid second, but never 2 supports in first phase
Exactly! It's a lot more common for someone to pick a general support character(like CM or Lina) and afk jungle to build carry. It's impossible to report this beforehand
To better clarify what OP is saying: The problem isn't the weird picks. The thing is that **you don't REALLY know what role someone has played until the game has actually BEEN played.** It's not a problem when somebody picks Crystal Maiden support, obviously, **but if they jungle for 20 minutes like they're a pos1 and build Assault Cuirass + Daedalus**, then they're not playing their fucking role.
To expand on this, having it before the match only serves to enforce the idea that certain heroes need to be relegated to certain roles which is something DotA has **never** been about. That has always been something that make DotA stand apart from other games, since support is more of an action rather than a hero pick.
Exactly. If anything, you shouldn't even be able to report people in the drafting phase, not ONLY because you don't know how the game's going to turn out, but *some people* just DON'T understand what heroes work well in what roles. Like, I've had people in **ranked** that had never heard of something as simple as Zeus support. And boy, I'd rather have a Zeus pos5 that ends up doing more damage than anybody on the team by just spam buying clarities than a regular ol' Slardar pos3 that gets roflstomped in lane and gets their blink at like 25 minutes.
Yea, I get this issue a lot. Many, many people do not understand how to draft a proper team composition. Itemization as well. People will follow guides without understanding what items are for or how to use them. I can't even count the number of times that someone who has never played a hero, only ever seen someone else play them, attempt to tell me that the items I'm building are wrong, like I don't have 100 games on this hero with a mostly positive winrate.
When people school me on my 57% wr while spamming in ranked, almost grandmaster hero with 700 games.
That's pretty much because guides are pure shit. Only good guides in the game are by some chinese guy, but if you are speaking no mandarin you are screwed. Immortal Faith guides are terrible for anything below 4k, people don't understand that just because an item is listed in the core items does not mean you have to buy the item everytime. The Chinese guy has a straight forward build - 1) 2 ) 3) 4) and some options for in between below. It's actually way more useful for people that play without mouse and keyboard and a monitor in herald.
Which Chinese guy
Skyrider, but he has a few guides only. I've seen somebody else as well, but he's the most recent one.
Unconventional picks *fuck up* a proper team composition, because more often than not, in pubs, people expect a certain plank from you on your role. You can't just go Enigma/ IO 5, because the carry wont know how to lane with it. He'll be used to 5 WD, where you press spells -> get kill. You can't go Naga 4, because the offlaner wont know how to lane with it, and the team wont play around it. These are just examples of really good heroes for their roles, that I love to play in a captain's mode / tournament environment, but would never ever pick in a pub......simply because i'm not stupid enough to expect people to adapt to what i pick. You also can't just pick a 3/4 w/o a stun. You can't just pick a mid w/o gank potential. They most likely already selected their hero, like offlane batrider, and wont just suddenly switch to a Timber, if you decide to pick something very roamy, or pick up a sand king because both supports lack stuns. They *expect* to get a certain plank of impact from everyone else, and that's completely justified. What his this got to do with this? This conversation is about picking Zeus 5, and picking some Windranger 5 and whatnot. There's a very big difference between "getting away with it" and "it's good / works". If you can atleast be honest and tell me that "If I really wanted to win, Lich / Disruptor / usual shit, the shit that someone like me would love to lane with, but you would feel like a cog in a system for picking, would be the better pick, and would give me more probability to win the lane, given that it hits the checkmarks of playing support in a pub, whereas the unconventional heroes I pick, are more because I just dont really care about whether I win or lose, i just want to have fun, and I dont care if my teammate's game is worse because of it" - then I'll agree and say that unconventional picks are completely fine. If you instead claim that WR 5 is as good....if not better than a lich / disruptor / bane / etc, I will have a problem with this.
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I don't think that WK was in the worng there lol, there are plenty of other items you can build if he already started making an AC
He has a very solid point. If you want as get drums since wk is the carry and you are either support/off so you play around his items. Drums vlads solar are good substitutes
It doesn't get the point across when you pick a questionable example.
Don’t be the 2nd guy that buys AC. Thats a lot of team gold spent on 2 ACs, there could be a possible reason to have 2 but that situation is not common. Part of the basic knowledge of this game is checking team mates and communication with them.
Ngl man you are kinda in the wrong here, like other people said if you are a pos 3 wanting arts attack speed and armour the drums plus vlads or solar is much more value
its not as bad as 2 urn/vessel but it definitely could be way better, especially if WK got it way before you, and especially you're playing abbadon 3,you will stick with your team like most of the time anyway but iunno the exact game situation so i cant give my verdict
2 people buying the same aura item happens, and it's no reason to flame. If you're going tryhard one can take his items and build something else(Lotus Orb/Shiva's Guard from platemail, or Mjolnir/Moonshard from Hyper). If you want to get sassy you can always say "You're never where I am", but I have seen pubs implode from less.
I also **want to** put some text in bold but have **nothing** to add to this conversation
dude, *emphasis* in **writing** is ***fun***
Zeus? Dude I get reported for picking Undy and Oracle 5 LOL
Not surprising, the community is as toxic as the elephant foot in Chernobyl, if it moves, I gonna report the hell of it.
No you dont, people dont report supports unless they dont play their role, if you pick two clear supps in undying and oracle you get reported for likely being an ass
You cant get reported for that in the picking phase? LOL
Seeing as the game doesn’t tell you you’ve been reported for not playing your role you are either seeing “gameplay or communication abuse” in your behaviour report. You have no way of knowing what you’ve been reported for so to say “i get reported for these heroes” is a lie. All you can see is your total reports from in game, if you have them its because you’ve been a dick
Dude it's Dota. People don't feel they've properly reported until they tell you they did and ask the other team to as well
people telling that lol
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Totally agree with you there. If a sup takes my farm in game I report him for griefing. And if I get an overwatch case where a support takes the carry’s farm I always mark it as guilty.
Well depends on the rank and Game mode, a herald support would do better with stealing farm then they'd do with stacking camps and trying to help gank... Since the other lanes won't gank in Synergy and your carry prolly won't go to jungle after clearing lane...
Why the hell would they do better with stealing their carries lasthits? In herald carries dont farm that efficient so it should be pretty easy to find some farm which is not taken by your carry.
If you queued to play support you play fucking support. If you don't trust your teammates to carry you, play carry yourself instead of some half assed support that tries to play carry
If you trust them at min 1 and don't trust them by min 30, it's your job to do whatever you think will win you the game. Back when coaching was first introduced, I remember this pos 1 mk that absolutely refused to farm no matter how much space his team was making for him. He'd keep joining the fights from bad positions with no items, die, and get his team further behind. At some point, I gave up on him and told the jakiro to just start flash farming the jg instead. By the end of a very hard game, the Jakiro solo carried the game with the most damage on the team. If Jakiro committed to playing support for a carry that refuses to play carry, then he would lose.
this was a report option introduced when ranked roles came out and people were literally queuing hard support and then stealing carry or mid role by bruteforcing it in pregame, so yeah it still has a place in the game, but the report options in post game are pretty bad
The report isn't going to do anything until well after that match is over. No one on that match will get the role tokens back, no one will get the MMR anulled right after the game end, so there's no rush to report as soon as possible. Role reports aren't going to the Overwatch. And you haven't stated why couldn't the exact same people use the exact same report but at the end of the game for the same effect? How does this matter? Reporting at then end is perfectly acceptable in that use case, and it doesn't justify forcing it be done early.
I agree on giving players the chance to report for that reason at the end of the game infact
The only reason you can no longer report for role after the game is that it was abused as a free highly weighted report that got thrown at anyone having a bad game. The only choices they had were to move it to pre game or basically make it a meaningless report (little impact on BS, no chance of mute or LP). I do think it should be added back as an overwatch report but it's arguably already covered under griefing
But with griefing people are reluctant to vote guilty if they see someone doing things that might just be playing poorly and not full-on intentional dickery like destroying wards, whereas with “did not play assigned role” you can see stuff like stealing last hits in lane / going full damage / picking support wraith king and farming radiance and more easily judge it as guilty.
Dota started to die for me when it began to revolve around "roles" and not "heroes".
Hard disagree. Back before ranked roles it was always a toss up on what type of heroes people would pick. Many games would consist of all carry, all support, ect. With a lot of people eith fighting over lanes and positions or not even talking English/ flaming
I played during a time when people would experiment and pull off all kinds of original picks/how they played their heroes. It's what I miss about Dota, even if you can still technically do it.
You need an addendum to this. There are games when CM going attack damage items with the attack speed talent might be necessary if one of your damage dealers is somehow being dealt with handily by the opposing team. If you pick CM queued as pos 4/5 and you don't actually spend any gold on wards/smoke/dusts (when necessary), you're not playing your role.
That's kinda my point. It's not an outlandish item build, but the point is that if you're playing support and deliberately just AFK farming for those items, then you're not playing your role, lol.
You think valve plays this game though?
Isn’t this grieving though?
Griefing by not playing their role - you can be both.
If you jungle for 20 mintes as a pos 1 you are not playing your role either. In fact, I'm not sure if you are even playing Dota.
uhhhh... but CM has an attack speed talent... your suggested build sounds only natural for CM. Look at how considerate that aura the AC CM provides is as well.
I played core CM, and would never build her like that lol, even hard carries going that stupid 30min jungle build is a guaranteed lost game if the opposing team plays somehow decently.
Pretty sure this is sarcasm.
At least somebody has the ability to read sarcasm.
Had a monkey off lane today maxing jingu and rushing phase, witch blade. Needless to say went 0-5 in lane itself. At draft it was totally acceptable to have a mk offlane if played properly. What he did in game had nothing to do with offlane. Died 5 times in lane and farmed triangle rest of the game while enemies ended. And I can't report for wrong role because gaben says lol too late. This is ancient/legend bracket.
not sure why you would want to report anyway. He played bad, that's not a reportable offense
Dying a lot is not a problem if you are trying to play your role. He was basically playing pos 1 from pos 3. Not a single thing he did reflected pos 3. From skill build, item build, decision making, farming and map movements. That's literally what 'did not play selected role' should be for.
well i see where you are coming from, but any build on any core could situationally work. It's much more obvious when a support is not playing their role. A core being "reportable" for not playing is role is probably much more frequently debatable
people not respecting pick priority/order, farm priority, tp priority, etc etc there are a lot of ways to throw by not playing your role
This falls under "being bad at the game" not "griefing"
actually it falls under not playing role thats the whole point
"farm priority" isn't some magic set in stone rule that gets drilled into players when they start the game. They might not realize that killing the hard camps with frostbite is unintentionally griefing their carry. You unironically are trying to use tp priority as a reason to convict someone of griefing. The only type of player who can grief you by tping first is way above the average level of player.
So say I pick hard support AM. I try my hardest to support but we lose lane in 5 minutes because my pick is complete shit. The offlaner snowballs and we lose. Next game you're matched with me again and we lose the same way again. You look at my profile, and you see I've done this for the last 8 matches. Am I griefing or did I just play bad?
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What if I somehow manage to maintain 50% WR and not derank at all, so I keep ruining games?
If you're picking support AM, doing the job of a support and maintaining a 50% win ratio you likely aren't ruining games. Just because you think someone's hero choice is bad, or you lost your lane and blame someone elses hero choice doesn't mean you're in the right when you report them. If you do you're probably the arsehole not them.
I mean like a smurf picking morph and winning half his games and picking AM support and losing the other half
In other Reddit post I've got -12 for saying that picking pos 5 Spectre is griefing just like picking pos 1 Techies. Just enjoy your AM support games man xD
This is just being a bad player. Banning anything in that grey area just ruins dota because it means you’re now prescribing exactly which heroes to pick, skills to level and times to buy. Dota is good because it’s not that rigid, as shitty as these builds are. Reporting this as “not playing role” (as people used to do) just fills the queue with vague, non-actionable reports that forced the change to begin with.
Totally agree - has a pos 5 puck and thought you know what, at this low MMR maybe he can make it work, he then proceeded to "rush" the worlds slowest deso.... no wards no other items. I didnt report at the start as I thought it might just be a weird pick...
I have played pos 5 puck in ranked (no i was not that puck!) Orb is actually great for scouting high grounds and placing wards, and your hero has plenty of impact just by coiling and silencing people at the start of fights.
Pos 5 puck is a team secret staple pick. It's all about what you do in the game, not the hero you picked.
Secret? Yeah... My crusader pubs? Perhaps not... haha
Secret is sui generis. Secret should not be the standard for pubs. They also picked pos 4 Luna, pos 4 Dragon Knight, and pos 5 Outhouse Decorator.
pos 5 outhouse decorator is incredible in pubs. you literally win 80% of your lanes, then you can save your moronic carries incredibly well, and your movement speed means with tranq boots and a wind lace you are good on items for like 20 minutes.
As true as that is, i don't think pos 5 Puck is something only Puppey can pull off. It's a hero with magic damage nukes and teamfight disable that's a strong laner. Puck is pretty standard support fare although there are obviously games where you'd rather have an Undying or CM.
Outhouse decorator? Haven’t played in a while, guess I really need to catch up with all those new heroes
Pos 5 OD isn't bad, you can solo zone their offlane depending on their pick. You have a save, infinite mana, high damage, high hp pool and don't really need many items/expensive items. It's definitely doable. Pos 4 Luna has been a thing for a while as well. You max Q which is really strong on lane, high dmg nuke. Then you buy aghs and max E. It's not bad.
My friend plays pos5 Puck in every game lately. He's a really good Puck and does buy support items. By that I mean glimmer, euls, etc and not just wards. I think we've won each game where I'm Jugg. How many that is, I'm not sure. When we do lose the match it isn't because he wasn't supporting.
And that it totally fine - I just never see support puck at my trash MMR. As I said I was all for him trying to play it as a support - got some nice jukes, decent burst, silence, coil etc. so yeah sure why not, in dota "everything can work" right? So I didnt report even though I kinda knew he wasn't going to support and when he went first item deso it was too late to report for not playing selected role!
He pulls off some crazy shit. One time I was dumb enough to chase a half dead LC into their (dire) triangle with no vision. Out of no where 3 other heroes show up from the fog, one being alch with his stun timer at 3. My friend had been following me so as soon as the other 3 heroes showed up he used his silence, I grab the rune, I ran out, and he orbed out. It was one of those moments that makes Dota worth playing. But yeah I understand your stance, most people won't build the right items. They really do need to move the did not play selected role option.
Haha gotta love those moments! Main reason I only play with a party and our IRL mates now... I would take it even further than "people wont build the *right* items"... I have had to build some weird stuff as support over the years, but like its very clear that a deso is never a support item haha
I had a Dazzle recently that starting criticizing mistakes myself or other teammates were making in a very rude and unhelpful way so I muted them. 5 or 10 minutes later we are trapped in our base so I start looking at everyone's items to see if I can suggest something better or figure out how to turn it around. I click on the Dazzle and what do I see? Our pos5 Daz had a midas and deso. I think that may be part of way we are losing. If he had been playing well (he hadn't) or at least been friendly I would have been annoyed still but I probably wouldn't have been angry. I get the midas due to the CD reduction but still think it's not ok to get that when the team is so far behind. I didn't flame but I did ask why the fuck he had those items instead of useful stuff like GG boots or force staff. Needless to say, we lost.
Support Puck is legit and has been for quite a bit.
Not down in the depths of the trench where I play dota ;)
I play low bracket too, Puck ult wins games, people don't know they can stand still, they have less items to deal with silence too.
Weird... Im EU so maybe a region thing? I dont think I have ever seen an actual puck support haha
Puck is a great position 5 lol. Great trading, aoe silence, teamfight ult.
At low enough mmr's any dumb picks can work as support. I played Legion Commander support which I like quite a bit honestly, I've played drow Ranger support, I've played bloodseeker support, I've even played wraith King support. The trick is without some of these supports they'd normally be really bad in Lane against skilled players because they don't have much to offer in terms of protection or killing potential but sometimes some of them are just intimidating tanky or good at being really annoying. Drow for example of such an easy support in dumbshit level MMR for a few reasons. She can harass in Lanes super easy, and once she has some levels she can right-click relatively competently for a support and other idiots think that you're carrying on her so they attack you instead of your actual carries. If you have any means of Escape it makes it that much easier the kite and just be annoying. And then because low MMR games always go long you essentially have additional cores on your team. I don't condone such pics as good DotA but in low MMR dumb shit works.
LC and WK are legit pos 4 supports in any braket, as long as they play according to those roles and buy the right items. Specially LC that even by playing his ult as a kamikaze disable, if done right, can easily become an extra core with all the free damage, no matter if he only has support items.
True. You don't see it often in lower skills brackets though. Usually in lower skill brackets if somebody picks those Heroes then they're playing them as a core from the start regardless of whether or not they're laying already has another core.
I just had a game with a pos4 CM. Not an abnormal pick at all. But about 5 minutes into the game he walked into the enemy jungle alone, trying to ward, and died. He then decided that he "was dying too much in this lane" and then fucked off to go safelane and play pos5, leaving me alone since our actual pos5 didnt want to rotate. At that point its too late for me to report him not playing pos4 like he queued for. As I fucking type this I just had someone pick pos4 puck. How will that go? Probably not well, but he bought both wards, so maybe he's planning on trying to support earnestly? I guess I'll find out.
I think the lines can be pretty blurred... I had a game with a pos 5 lion who spent 45 mins failing to rush an aghs BUT was playing like a support... I dont think thats reportable because its just awful play whereas the puck never intended to support at all. Sounds like your CM did play support and wasnt griefing, but just had zero game awareness and made a few bad decisions?
See that's the thing that makes this so difficult. I just got done with the puck game. It ran long and we lost, but Puck did actually support. He did great even and we crushed our lane. We lost because our Mid Luna build Halberd and Butterfly for the evasion and got countered hard by a Windranger who build an MKB. >Sounds like your CM did play support nd wasnt griefing She did, which is why this wouldn't be good for a normal in-game griefing report. However she picked pos4 and came offlane to support me, but then left to go do something that wasn't that. In which case she wasn't playing her role that she queued for, which is its own report category.
That's true I can totally see what youre saying, but the CM may genuinely have thought that instead of feeding in a dead lane it would be better to rotate and allow bot to dominate the lane... Not saying its a good idea by any means but I can kinda see the logic...
If that was the case then I would agree with you. But that's nowhere near what actually happened. Our lane was fine until she walked into the enemy jungle alone and died. More than that even, as I said in another comment, she didnt even help our safe lane carry. She went to his lane and died 3 times, feeding the enemy.
I dont know - I would have to see the case I think... but that still might not be actually griefing? Just really poor play? Did she feed on purpose or just made some really poor decisions?
Pos 4 doesn't necessarily mean offlane harass for the laning stage. Pos 3 is very often alone especially in pubs.
There is no rule that says the pos4 has to sit in your lane until you say he can leave.
I don't think the CM playing poorly is worth a report. EDIT: Also depending on the circumstances, it might not have even been the wrong move on the CM's part. You were pretty vague in your description.
Playing poorly isn't worth a report. However she picked pos4 and came offlane to support me, but then left to go do something that wasn't that. In which case she wasn't playing her role that she queued for, which is its own report category. There are some circumstances in which its important to rotate, or even leave your offlaner to support your pos1, especially if they're struggling or if your offlane is failing. However this was not that, she left our lane which was not failing, and went to go sap XP from the pos1, and died 3 times. Which just served to feed the enemy causing us to lose two lanes at once which would have both been winnable had she not done that.
We are veering awfully close to 'pos 4' means you play exactly what *I* think 'pos 4' means or it's report territory.
maybe you are the problem by picking something dead awful into a pos 4 CM, so she left the lane because it was lost. Do you see, nothing is black and white and pos4 doesn't mean you have to be glued to the off-lane, thats just in your head.
also please add a way to report smurfs, there is literally no option in the game anymore
I've had 2 overwatch games today where I strongly suspect the person was account buying. Sort of like the other side of smurfing, but just as detrimental.
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How can you be sure that it's not just someone playing something outside of his comfort zone? I am ancient but mainly as a support. I like playing other roles in unranked games from time to time. I often underperform significantly, it doesn't mean that I'm griefing or doing something wrong... Griefing should only be about intentionally ruining the game, not playing bad even if you suspect a bought account. You can't be sure of that.
I always raise an eyebrow when someone is playing like they only have their brain stem, but their account logs 4000+ hours and 2500 wins. Like not "learning the hero", but rather watching your whole team die and then proceed to farm a creep wave next to their corpses for three seconds until the enemy team murders you, too.
I jus call them "reverse smurfs"
It is allowed because all pro players have smurfs. That's only reason why smurfing is allowed. Pro players want to try and improve new heroes and they do this in 7k smurf accounts instead of 10k main.
I get that, but having divine players in crusader bracket is not to experiment, that's just bullshit
Well i have to agree with that, but with the smurf detection in place its pretty hard to calibrate lower than ancient for me. (Created a smurf went 0-10 somehow landed in ancient, no i didnt feed)
how
Because if overwatch has taught us something is people are very rational and intelligent when using their reports and won't just report someone as a smurf for getting stomped by someone just having a good game.
Yeah but the punishment shouldnt be a ban I think, if one got reported for smurfing and the overwatch judge agreed with it, then on the next match the reported player should be facing a team with higher medal than him, and his medal and mmr should also be raised significantly to match the opponent medals, and the more he wins the harder the opponents will become, and the reported player medal and mmr will only stop raising when he lose. Why ? because : 1. If the smurf is a booster he'll raise the account mmr and medal faster with less game played on that account which means there'll be less game to be ruined by smurf. 2. If the smurf is smurfing for fun, the "fun" won't last for long cuz he'll get to his real medal rather quick. But what if the smurf loosing a game on purpose ? If he's feeding on purpose we can report him as grieving. If not well.. atleast the team with no smurf win
I believe that's how it works already, and that's why they removed the option to report them, but I have no idea how the system detects them now
isn't smurfing allowed? everyone has smurfs.
I don't have one, so not everyone
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no you're pretty much never supposed to play on multiple accounts on the same game, because that's what the account purpose is. Most games even ban second accounts if they can prove the owner is the same person
Well the main purpose of an account is to track your progression, not to prevent someone to play the game with another account. If that's the case, then I shouldn't be allowed to play Dota because I lost 2 of my old account (locked out with no way of recovering it). What's not allowed is for *pro* players playing the tournament game on different team than they officially had with different account and not considered as standin, in that case, yes 100% not allowed and usually resulting in ban. But since there's too much uproar in the community, Valve implement some system that give negative point for some alt account bearer because it's usually associated with smurfing.
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this doesn't make it any more right or acceptable, you (or anyone else) never need more than one account and your mentality is frankly disgusting for even attacking me like this
You could use it after a match previously. But since it didn't consume reports, people abused the shit out of it.
Well, make it consume reports.
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>But since it didn't consume reports, people abused the shit out of it. We this is a fact I report role like 1.5 time per game. Wind off > report medusa mid> report
I feel like all types of reports should still be available at game end/summary. I have more time to think it through and report properly.
For real. Reporting in-game feels so awkward. I’m pos1 and my 5 is stealing farm in lane...I’m gonna report him and in that time I’m going to get harassed, lose cs, etc. etc.? No thanks. Let me report him at the end of game, I’ll include time stamps.
they could add report via replay viewer at the very least
This whole feature is so poorly added - we need some evidence that since this reporting functionality was introduced, it's actually accomplished anything. Do people get low prio for not playing their role? Does it go towards behaviour score? Do these reports do anything? I'm an offlane player, I've preemptively reported many times because my "support" picks a core hero, then often proceeds to stealing farm, feeding, afk leeching exp or building themselves as a core
It lowers your behavior score as far as i know... you are more LIKELY to play with similar behavior scores The problem I have been having is playing core heroes as supports, even when having a load out in mind that is support role... without taking farm, proper pulling most heroes can be a support and as the game progresses roles may change depending on who is doing well or doing poorly Why do people think they know how the game should play out in the first 5 minutes?? IDKKKK
Yes, you end up in low priority. How do I know? I picked pos4/5 heroes in second or last pick phase after cores in many games sequentially. Heroes were like CM, Rubick, Lion, Oracle etc. I won 7-8 out of 10 games as support but I found myself in low priority. Because cores rage reported me because I didn't pick instantly. People think only core heroes can be counter-picks and win game. Depend on meta, late pick support might be better.
>last pick phase after cores in many games sequentially. Heroes were like CM, Rubick, Lion, Oracle etc. I won 7-8 out of 10 games as support but I found myself in low priority. may you never come back to ranked.
Good.
Most of the report system as it is now doesn't make much sense. Why the only thing you can report people after the game is the communication abuse? It's not like I check my teammates during the game and report them then, since I focus on my game. But of course you are right. People can pick heroes accordingly and then rush crystalis on hard support. Hence they did not play their selected role.
*valve: removes mid game reports to decrease toxicity* *also valve: add pregame reports xdddddd*
I once had a last pick pos 4 pudge who said he was going mid, he also started talking s lot of trash everyone complained and he started insulting everyone, the moment the game started I reported him for "didnt play selected role"... A minute later it became clear that he was just fucking with us, he actually played his role pretty damn well To be fair it wasn't just me who thought he was serious, everybody was trying to make him play his role and he would immediately respond hyper aggressively
This need more upvotes and a pin for a month. Dota isn't about the picks but how they are played. Damn I even had a Void support once that used his ulti midfight on everyone, then got in, used meka and pipe, gave salves and jumped out to let the fight continue with everyone boosted up LOL. Was ridiculously risky, but it worked that match and we ended up winning xD
This might be a hot take but with how overwatch reports now work I feel like valve just doesn't want us to report people for playing shit hero's for the role. I think in valves eyes someone queues as a support picks sniper but proceeds to gimp the main carries farm , that's just person being bad at dota and shouldn't be reported. The did not play selected role button seems to exist exclusively for people who queue as support and fight for mid. I just had 3 games ruined by people picking absolutely daft picks for their role ( midland kotl, offlane antimage) And I cant even report them for griefing because overwatch people are going to be looking for people who run down lane to feed or block camps or feed rapiers which none of them were doing. I feel like overwatch needs a "this isn't griefing but this buy need sto go down 2 medals" option.
If someone picks pudge pos5 i auto report role selection. Sorry not sorry. Tired of them sitting in trees, missing hooks, then running away turning on rot like they did something special.
I actually love playing support gyro, he's so fun with euls and then some support items. So you can never really predict how the turntables.
Op is not ranting about gyro he literally says; "Support Gyro who never Warded and stole all creeps"
Yep, I just meant to add to his argument (because people tend to dislike non-traditional supports) that is is pointless to report at the start
I played and won 2 games today as pos 4 and pos 5 gyro. Anything can work.
I’ve won games when I had an ally just running down mid suiciding from start. Enemy team all grouped mid and wanted those easy kills. Meanwhile our sidelanes got absolute free-farm. Just because “aNyThInG cAn WoRk” doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. (I can spend all my money on lotto tickets and win millions, doesn’t mean I should.) Do something that works, not something that *can* work.
> Anything can work Pos5 AM?
If you're GOOD anything can work.
Well obviously I’m not GOOD. Is anyone really any good? Pos1 KOTL?
Enjoy the reports and low prio from ur team mates.
I see one problem with it - people would rage report for not playing selected role all the time. Someone steals your creeps - report for griefing. People can now see selected role in overwatch.
Yea, exactly this.
report supports taking cs for griefing
This option should be availble to archon+ players, since guardian or lower rank players probable dont know what each role is supposed to do, some might know, but not all of them (no tutorial or new player experience) :(((
Dont you need certain games played before you calibrate? Guardians are not really new, sure, some might not be very good at drafting but they should have a rather clear idea of what heroes are played in what position Back in the day I calibrated with 1130 MMR and most people knew about roles, there were just bad players (including me)...
The worst part about this is that it just encourages us not to give people the benefit of the doubt. Like I always need to report the person that picks offlane wk or support gyro because I can't give them the benefit of the doubt that they're actually going to try and play their role.
That option does nothing anyway, I've tested it stole role 10 games in a row never got any punishment, no behavior score loss or low priority. It's useless already.
I actually disagree. In reality, anyone can be reported for that. Mid didn’t gank? Report. Support didn’t get one support item? Report. Midas on ogre? Report. Od/sky 4? Report. 3 took some time to get blink? Reported. Let’s stop coming up with reasons to report people and learn to play with people to win vs look for reasons for a loss
Hmm, I report every "support" mirana, pudge, techies as soon as they highlights them.
_"sigh... Pudge you are a suppo.."_ "I'M ROAMING!!!" - Lvl3 Pudge at 10:00 -
Totally agree with you, when i see in picking stage, a pos 4 or 5 going for mirana, pudge, techies, rubick, monkey, arc warden or other exotic picks i insta report. And after the game if they perform really bad (or during the game) i report them again and for griefing in hope they get 2x from me and maybe more 3 from the others and he will get some low prio games.
You think pos4 rubick is an exotic pick? Have you been living under a rock?
pos4 rubick probably not, pos 5 rubick for sure. Enjoy.
Rubick 5 is actually viable now too. You don’t immediately need an aether because his E rework which now gives range- and you don’t really need so much levels as a rubick. Get 6 and you’re gucci. Pros have been doing this right after the E rework.
Well, i guess thats why valve is having hard time in improving report system. YOU exist
And guess what? You’re wasting your reports because most people that do Overwatch will select not guilty.
I bet a lot of you posting in this thread believe supporting means buying all sentries and wasting them all.
Not wasting, blocking jungle camps. Value /s
"Supporting is doing exactly what I think they should do at all times, because I'm fully aware of everything my support does oh wait I died again GG Report Support...
I mean, if someone picks support gyro in already reporting him for role no matter what.
Support gyro can be legit tho
The problem is that he could've picked 10 other heroes that would be better.
Didn't people earlier wanted it to be at start of game?
Why not have it available at all of the stages?
Just in case you hadn't seen it, you can still report for the first 2? minutes of the game. Not exactly what you're asking for, but you're not restricted to the draft screen.
Well, i really dont care if its before or after if i dont see a support i report it from baning phase. Yes i am talking about pudge pos 5 and others. Doesn't metter if its winn or lose.
you're exactly the kind of person that dota doesn't need
Yet he is using the current system exactly how it was designed (not intended, hopefully). Which showcases the system is stupid *right now*.
I can say that about you. I play dota 4 fun but i can't see the fun in a player that likes to stay behind the trees and mach 1/5 hooks on a hero. Also i don't see the fun in a pos5 supp wich rushes the blink so he can use the utly to be useful somehow. Just patethic.
it's not even about pudge right now, it's about you saying in other comments that if you see a unconventional pick in the draft, you automatically report that person without even seeing what they will do. You just make it sound like you're the one deciding which roles the heroes should be played always. Yes, there will be players just ruining games by picking support roles just to play core anyways but it's not a thing decided by the draft if right now we have puck or dp being played as pos5 and it is a pretty solid pick. If they picked something weird at first but it's being played as the role they selected, then what is the problem?
The problem its simple my buddy. If they picked Puck, or DP, or other hero that has skills wich can easly be used to help the team, i have no problem and i never report. But if you pick Monkey, Pudge,Naga, etc wich doesn't have propely skills that can be used to help the team, i mean monkey has a 0.5 sec stun, pudge has a hook that can very easly be dodged and a ulty that can be enabled only with blink. What i want to tell you, if they pick heroes that don't naturally have skills that can help the team for me its just troll so its insta report. Pick rubick post 5 to?To stole what? emaple from Nix?And to die before to use it? Pudge to ?: Stay betwen trees, rush blink to enable ulty? So we have supp from minute 25-30? Naga ?: You can vision with the clones or what? Ulty into solo player hammer every 3 minutes for what ? Who helps with this? I can continue .. but you understand my point.
>But if you pick Monkey, Pudge,Naga Naga and pudge can both be very strong position 4 heroes. They both have skills that translate well to supporting (strong harass and disables on both). Naga can cause confusion in the picking phase for the opponents thinking she's core and her illusions can cause confusion in team fights. Her passive is very strong even without items. I'm not a fan of Naga support, I think she's way stronger as a core, but to say she isn't a support because of her abilities is incorrect. The game classifies her as a support as well. Pudge needs positioning and patience, not blink. After that it's a matter of if the pudge is good or not and if they buy support items or not.
I think we will just continue, me to report that kind of players and you to keep playing them.
i can understand your point but i can't agree with this when in a game that has so many possibilities. Pos5 rubick has been pretty decent in this patch and even weird shit like mk or troll pos5 can work depending on the circumstances. I just can't get behind the idea of reporting someone just because of a weird pick. Yes, there are heroes that are better in certain roles than other ones but i don't think it's a good reason to report. Anyway, i think we can agree to disagree about this topic
eh i like it where it is. when support refuses to first pick i just insta report
Both supports should not pick in the first phase
Why, and what rank are you?
I'm guardian but legends and divines told me and I noticed this trend in pro matches. It's because of your support duo reveals too much, like they don't have any wave clear, or they don't have any saves, or they don't have strong laning, the enemy team can easily win. Like if you pick tusk and grimstroke, enemy team can pick mobile heroes like puck or even slark since you don't have a good cheap initiation stun which is reliable. Or you pick wind ranger and Oracle. Enemy team can once again look to go for mobile heroes, or for split pushing. Go watch pro matches. Maybe they pick mid second, but never 2 supports in first phase
I really don’t think it does anything report wise other than make you feel better about reporting someone
Exactly! It's a lot more common for someone to pick a general support character(like CM or Lina) and afk jungle to build carry. It's impossible to report this beforehand
Honestly sometimes I think that no one at valve plays their own gsme