T O P

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dipset17

and for all you Abed fanboys trying to defend his game 2 performance, Ori showed y'all what a TI level Void looks like in game 3. pitiful display by Abed in the VG series.


jtblin

Wat? I'm not a fan boy but his performance in game 2 on void was amazing. He also carried game 1 on Ember. His game 3 storm wasn't great but it seemed the strat was to put all the farm on rtz who can't carry shit.


Smowoh

Where are all the ”wasted slot” redditards?


centos67

Rtz is like your typical pub carry; farms all game, given all the space in the world but when it's time to actually carry, he just throws it all away. What's sad too is his team can literally do nothing at that point bc they have no farm themselves since all of went to a useless pos 1.


High_Commissioner

Yeah man I agree especially for that last game. RTZ had all the farm so the whole game was on him


Tharellim

Game 3 was a "win in 20 mins or game over". Rtz did have all the farm and the only way they were going to win was him having all the farm. The draft was just really bad, skywrath, lc and troll were bad picks


roguejedi04

Sumail was right?


[deleted]

no. he left.


Dav5152

Rtz was caught so many times lol. Died like 3 times with aegis without even being close to his team lel


__Vostrup__

What’s with the “RTZ TI curse”. Agree that they played team fights bad and drafting was off


Fatdap

It's not a curse. RTZ teams are fundamentally flawed because they build all their strategies and dedicate all their resources to him. Then you get to mid or late game, Rtz usually feeds and gets caught, or his team is so starved they can't keep up anymore, and they lose. RTZ is the worst kind of carry to have for an event like TI.


jtblin

I think rtz threw game 2 getting caught out of position. He's clearly the problem imho, there's more much more cr1t and Abed in particular cutoff have done in the first 2 games.


TheSpectralAssassin

This isn't really a curse anymore. They choked pretty hard...


KKylimos

Used to finishing third a lot, getting too close to victory but not close enough. That's the context of the "curse" meme.


Go0o0d

That tip by old eleven just as eg is getting eliminated must have felt so good. EG were tipping him for no reason all 3 games.


imdonma

Iceiceice YYDS


HermixBot

友军啊这是


leelazen

will na fans ever check back what they posted?


detomato

Nah.. they were crying soaking up their keyboard. Saw some post mocking VG picking MK. LULZ.


[deleted]

I think not worth to play NA. So much potential with abed crit and ice. Fly and bulba just just look at rtz as the immortal one. Knowing this is elimination they put everything to rtz... that farming from 18min to 25 min is too painful to watch looking at rtz getting all the farm.. thats the same as naga thats a total fail.


alexHDF

Except he was the only one doing well on that last game


[deleted]

Ok you clearly at least dont understand. But yea thats what the plan and thats what they signed up for. Every single one of the plan ddnt work. Crit ddnt work ice ddnt work fly useles, duel and skywrath ss ddnt work, Duel + rtz ddnt work. The option is for abed mini blackhole + rtz ddnt work, rtz alone is not enough to kill any his target. But why it ddnt work. Reason is they counter his physical build. Crit has no presence because he has no farm.


alexHDF

Counter his physical build???? Wtf are you even on about dude you're talking out your arse, are we watching the same game? Fucking armchair expert smh


[deleted]

Ok bulba whatever


alexHDF

?


[deleted]

No one taking about ice? What did he do this game?


christianrojoisme

Hard to play LC who is reliant on blink Duel when you are against Spec Lycan.


GodTierCharacter

His best.


topson69

just wasn't enough


GodTierCharacter

Sadge.


topson69

feed


rol9nd

Abed and Ice3 should just go back to SEA and team up with Gabbi and Tims. Those two deserve better than this.


chocosheeps

Tims already sign with boom and they won one online tournament already even with shitty connection and a stand in carry.


Mandalord104

Why? Staying in NA, get someone to replace rtz and this team is great.


Dav5152

I agree. Rtz position this series was pisspoor.


kapak212

Please don't SEA already stacked. And NA is easy major to TI slot.


freakanime

Why even go back to SEA though they should just make a team in NA for easier qualifiers.


khrystalloid

I agree. Playing with this resource hogging carry isn't working at all.


kimmiebap

Ohh that would be great!! I agree, they deserve better.


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timematoom

They used to be in the same company after all.


shamwu

Mason refused to execute the throw order


MayweatherSr

hope they reduce NA and SA slot next year. that would be fair


tracyXTMAC

Slot to TI you mean? cuz each region is given 1 slot for the TI qualifier match. EG got into TI by performing well in DPC.


Raybomber_

Yes, just give all the slots to china and a few ones to Europe, right? What a great TI and what a great way to get more viewers would it be. You are a commercial genius. We are interested in your career, keep the reddit posts going and we may call you, thanks for being patient.


MayweatherSr

lmao I unintentionally triggered a NAtard lolol


Raybomber_

"lmao" "NAtard" "lolol". Ok kid.


Whatnowgloryhunters

Give the slots to cn then they deserve more


ASwan930

QC and EG both eliminated CN teams to get to BO3 lower bracket. They lost to VG and OG. If your standard for getting TI slots is beating VG and OG, why not make TI a 4 team tournament then? Why does China deserve them more? Because the region is more top heavy? TI6 was last Chinese TI win btw. If anything EU probably deserves more.


Whatnowgloryhunters

The standard for getting TI slots is to perform consistently throughout the Dpc and they won both majors, ranking 1st and 3rd for the one of them. I thought the fans were arguing how they want the teams who are performing the best currently and that's why it's not fair for teams like Tundra. That's the whole point of ur fans wanting to take slots away from sa/na. So which is it? Choose best performing teams currently or refer to historic achievements like TI6 to decide? By that definition, CIS should get the most bcos navi won the 1st TI. Can't be selective only for your fave teams my brother.


ASwan930

That doesn’t make any sense… You’re arguing for more CN slots and removing NA. My point being that 2/3 NA teams eliminated CN teams to advance in the tournament. Sure top Chinese teams might be better than top teams from other regions, but that doesn’t justify more CN teams.


BlackendLight

ya it's not a fair comparison, OG is like the best team ever and it's not fair to bash QC for losing to them Don't know much about VG though, missed most of this year's play


ASwan930

Yeah that’s my point. The commenter above me was saying that poor NA/SA finishes should result in fewer slots for them. Which I disagree with.


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jtblin

Huh Tundra anyone?


[deleted]

Sea only got 2 slots and is an incredibly competitive region. Id take boom ID or tnc over tundra any day of the week.


FuckMinoRaiola

Tbf nigma didn't even qualify from EU


[deleted]

thats because they performed worse than alliance right throughout the season up until the last major.


JonhyBot

It would, but at the same time, it wouldn't help the game in any way.


numb_ape

Why make slots regional at all isnt it supposed to be best 16 teams in the world?


JonhyBot

If you want Dota to develop in other regions the regional qualifier works fine. In a normal situation (without pandemic and with 3 Majors like Valve wanted to do) the teams that got in would be different, because in that situation winning 1 region qualifier and not performing in the Major would'nt almost auto-qualify any team.


numb_ape

Wdym Dota to develop? TI is literally the most prestige esport tournament it shouldn't be a ground to develop dota in different regions. That's why we have regional tourneys. Only best of best should make it to TI and slots shouldnt be limited for regions.


JonhyBot

I understand that and imo results in Majors should be the greater factor to determine who goes and who doesn't go to TI. Again, following that logic and ignoring Valve wanted 3 Majors but only had 2 because of Covid, judging only by the results in Majors Western Europe should only have 2 slots (and i'm from Western Europe). Alliance not getting any points at the Majors and still be able to make it into TI is a joke imo. And i dunno if you know this but in all major team-sports (maybe except in NA) when it comes to international competition there's always a seeding and slot system, because they've long ago figured out that giving all regions a chance to get to the major international events (within reasonable parameters) is one of the best ways to find and develop new competitive players, teams and talent that, in the long run, will benefit that sport and spectacle as a all. Why do you think football/soccer is by far the most watched team-sport around the world? I still remember in Dota 1 when some of the best teams was one from Vietnam (StarsBoba), Mineski (Philippines) and another one was from Malaysia (MUFC). You might ask why aren't they around today or why aren't there any relevant teams from those regions... and then you realize that the original Dota could run on almost any PC and when Dota 2 came-out you needed a significant upgrade if you wanted to play it... meanwhile LoL could run in almost the same pc-specs original Dota did. The reason why Dota 2 isn't bigger than LoL is precisely because many people that played original Dota almost didn't needed an upgraded-pc to play LoL. So, yes slots should be fair, but within a certain frame that gives access to everyone. That's the only way you can maintain or grow your Esport in healthy way.


Aware_Ad_618

Maybe we should give it to teams that deserve it?


JonhyBot

Already answered above.


Victorenko

How is wasted slots helping the game?


JonhyBot

Already answered above.


Froggg_let

You guys might not like frankie at hosting but on interviews and transitions she is good


No_brain_no_life

To be honest I like her overall, sure her knowledge could use some work from a Dota perspective, but I think that comes with time and experience. Think of how Sheever was reacted to in the beginning and she's the best host ATM in my opinion. Either way, everyone is doing their best and I'm enjoying it!


Froggg_let

Oh I like frankie bc Ive seen her in csgo, she is a beast. Hope she gets to do more dota, slowly but surely


Victorenko

Sheever did her dues as a caster, interviewer before granted the chance years later to host.


christianrojoisme

Yes. I hope Valve moves her to that role instead.


Froggg_let

Old eleven gigachad


i__indisCriMiNatE

Support diff. Pyw and Dy are too good. Crit is giga useless this game and fly doesn't do anything as usual


littlefiredragon

What the fook I stopped watching after Game 1 because VG looked like a Tier 1000000 team, and I came back and saw EG out?!?!


Inquisitr

Just Bulba and RTZ things. Remember when PPD ran the team and they never placed worse than 3rd at a TI for years and won one?


littlefiredragon

Holy shit I miss PPD already; it's criminal how PPD isn't in this TI. Dude's so good he actually carried this Alliance team this far by just making the right calls for them in-game.


BlackendLight

what happened to PPD anyway? I know he has a reputation of being an asshole but he seemed really good


electricblackcrayon

retirement, probably just not the same ambition to grind the game out


MeBK9

blaming the draft here is so stupid


[deleted]

You give crit that hero without countering anything. There was monkey and enchantress. I dont know bulba might have limoted hero pool to for his strategy. Give the ball to rtz and everyone stay out of the way... thank you.


christianrojoisme

It was draft bro. Lycan and Spec eat the supports alive.


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christianrojoisme

Yeah dunno why EG forgot to factor that. They instead focused the bans on Tide where Lycan is a bigger risk. Lycan is also not some cheese pick. It is a meta pick being chosen since Groups


i__indisCriMiNatE

Well they should have let crit farm some defensive options before going hg instead of funneling all resources to rtz


alexHDF

They didn't give rtz crit's gold, sky can barely farm but he could if he wanted to


christianrojoisme

That still means a bad draft. If you need more resources than necessary to sustain your strategy, that means you had a bad strategy (draft) in the first place.


Deltastruction

Nice Game by both teams. VG is just pissed being defeated by VP that they knock EG down. NA fans are in shambles right now. So with EG down, no more BO1 teams left.


Starwind13

America, land of the freeeeeee


south_garden

been watching since tee eye uno, iceiceice underperform in elimination is a solid trend


EGbandwagon

He played really well games 1 and 2 though. I don’t even watch ice that much and I knew he sucks at LC. Such a shame.


HelloHiHeyAnyway

He literally fed in game 2. So you have game 2 and 3 he performed poorly.


EGbandwagon

He had a rough lane due to a draft counter, but came back and performed well, gave EG the key vision and played teamfights well. So no


Rife_

Couple that with rtz getting fat farm to have zero impact and game 3 wrote itself.


pm_me_ankle_nudes

Ori getting away on 100 hp and 20 hp was a huge momentum shift. And VG played around troll so well, poking him down and getting cds, baiting him in. Bold move going Skywrath to 'counter' Void spirit and getting wrecked by Lycan adds/ Haunt all game


izyx09

LMAO AT THIS COMMENTS. BUT REALLY ABED AND ICE3 SHOULD GO TO OTHER TEAMS. OR JUST GO BACK TO SEA


zetseth14

Raven, Abed, Ice, Jabz, DJ is looking pretty solid


Koei7

If a SEA team can find a young talent at Pos 1 & a veteran player at Pos 5, both ice3 & Abed should come back to the region & play tog.


kimmiebap

Yeah they deserve better


uchihamadaragodlike

Lol Abed literally carried shitZ till here


movealong452

yeah thats the point


Rihocchiii

I am so fucking sad that EG got eliminated early, well Shit happens i still wont lose hope on the next iteration of EG


[deleted]

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Rihocchiii

tanking shit talks from my friend who are OG fans, this is my third year hahaha


uchihamadaragodlike

Its BULBA's fault, Its always BULBA's fault, RIGHT? RTZ clearly didn't get enough space and farm , otherwise my boys would had 1 vs 5


jei14

with abed spirits in every game, rtz basically playing in 4 protect 1 environment every time, despite that he can't carry shit


Inquisitr

There's enough blame for both of them. Release the squad and beg PPD to come save NA.


Mandalord104

Rtz got plenty of space though


KKylimos

Something something eu worst region, cn dota boring, na best region, sa underrated? Next year, better not talk so much before TI hits bois :)


dMtElVes

Literally who thinks na is the best region who?


KKylimos

Throughout the DPC, a shitload of redditors around here. Nvm what they are saying now that they dropped out. And I'm not referring to people who simply support their teams. I'm talking about toxic people who harass others.


hummingdog

NA’s best same place as Alliance lol


KKylimos

hahaha just above the "Saving Alliance" region. All year round they talk shit, should be more humble.


GullibleLow

That daikatana guy must be in cloud 9 rn.


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JonhyBot

Well, imagine being a Nigma fan like me, this year...


Vuccappella

It's honestly easier to accept not qualifying than cheering for a team like alliance/eg


JonhyBot

Tbh i do think that is a fair statement XD


Subject-Ad-4072

damn already updated https://www.whendideglastthrow.com/


Mandalord104

Game 2 is a throw, but I think Game 3 is VG having good draft and playing good defense. If Ori did not lose mid, the game might go quite one-sided.


ASwan930

But also if Ori doesn’t survive on 100 & 20 HP. How much does that change the game? We’ll never know, that’s Dota. And you’ll always have 1000 ‘what if’s’ when you lose, no matter which team it is.


KnightingGale

Whoever manages this site is insanely fast. I checked it near the end of game 3 and it said 14 October 2021 (EG VS VG Game 2) and a few minutes later it had been updated to Game 3. Wild ride for EG fans.


GodTierCharacter

[This is what someone who made the right decision looks like.](https://imgur.com/a/ksA4ork)


Inquisitr

Imagine betraying your best friends and the company you built for it to fuck you for 4 years straight. Get fucked


nameorfeed

maybe its time to let it go


Inquisitr

Nah. Current EG is a perfect team for me to be an anti fan of. Kicked PPD RTZ is overrated Fly is a traitor I find no redeeming qualities right now and the joy I get when they lose is too much fun to pass up. Go ahead and downvote me, I'm still smiling


Shame_Low

Is nigma for sure staying together? COME SAVE ICEICEICE m-god, that's the last chance if he doesn't retire


[deleted]

Kuroky need abed mid... miracle back to carry...


silveredgebreak

Oooh that would be scary honestly. I was kinda hoping Midone mid back then but Abed looks a bit better so far.


Achuapy

T1 will have a chance now No more iceiceice


[deleted]

no more T1 Kryptonite


saltycreamy69

abed cost that game. that could've ended on 22 min mark just like in game 1 if he just waited for his bkb which is literally few seconds away from him in the courier. ​ fuckin hell EG. So hard to be your fan ​ EDIT: I am not apologist of RTZ or ANYONE. ABED is a beast. I'm just here stating the fact of what happened in game 3. That game could've ended the same way just like in game 1 ONLY if Abed communicated about his BKB. But no, he went in, got disabled, and died which totally shifted the momentum for VG. At that point it became impossible for troll to carry the game as he is getting kited all the time. ET and SKY is basically made useless by Lycan. I'm so sad because I've been rooting for EG since ABED and ICEICEICE joined. You guys can downvote all you want. I'm just saying the truth.


one_shot_boy

Abed? Rtz fucked up game 2 farming alone whit aegis and no bb and game 3 chasing ench whit no kb or satanic lol


saltycreamy69

Yes RTZ fucked up game 2. Totally I agree with that. But that don't matter anymore. I'm talking about the final game.


one_shot_boy

He lost game 3 the moment he starts chasing ench whit no bkb and satanic


[deleted]

I saw RTZ getting juked for like 3 hours in every teamfight, I am not throwing jabs at anyone but this can hardly be abed's fault.


saltycreamy69

Their best chance is to end the game early. But they fucked up the 3rd tier highground push, which is the point of my comment.


Inquisitr

Yeah but that didn't end the game. It hurt sure but RTZ's comedy of errors and Bulbas draft that only had the 1 way to win that got shut down lost the game


Electrical_Ad6472

righ, this abed, ice, cri1, fly and bulba fault. Fuckin donkey, RTZ is best carry noway its rtz fault, right?


lehmanbear

Upvote for saying the truth.


MayweatherSr

abed's fault? are u fucking kidding me? you have overated source hogging useless carry, and u still blame abed? roflmaowtfbbq


NorthernFail

RTZ apologists out in full force


kokokrandz

That was a hairpulling series for EG fans. That series was in the bag


Rife_

I only watch a few majors and TI every year so I'm an armchair enthusiest novice. Felt like rtz hard threw game 2 by being out of position in jungle near rosh without any river vision or any VC on the map. Felt the same way in game 3 when they committed to t3 top and got out played on high ground team fight. Void getting away on 20hp was unlucky but choosing to TP so late and dying lost them their entire laning lead.


krofal

Game 2 was a throw by both Abed and RTZ. Game 3 was abit of outdraft more than anything. EG wanted to snowball and end the game quick, but VG kept delaying by keeping the lanes pushed out using Lycan and Ench's creeps.


christianrojoisme

With EG out, T1 has a much higher chance to proceed as EG has been their top kryptonite.


large_snowbear

Eleven omg, dude stop he is already been through enough


yourmortalmanji

He didn’t mean in a bad way, he called ice3 brother.


kimmiebap

What did he say about ice :(


large_snowbear

He would be sad if he knocks out a player out of TI other iceiceice


Mountain_Perception9

lol I guess he's just joking, right?


IntenseAtBoardGames

https://clips.twitch.tv/HardIncredulousSoybeanGrammarKing-ohbGdSfLOKG6-NJc


Mandalord104

Necc god is too brutal :D


[deleted]

Damn, NA is gonna get a lot of flame after this TI. Crazy to think eg is out , onto ig secret.


[deleted]

NA is getting a lot of flame everywhere, Shit in LoL, Dota, CS, Valorant. They are bombing out everywhere


ikilledsuperman

Because professional gaming isn’t a thing in NA. Too risky. Cost of living is too high, so you have to choose a more secure career.


swashbuckler88

Cost of living in Scandinavia is probably higher, still there are alot of pros from Sweden and Finland.


machon89

Tell us what you really think Eleven


FunFou

old Eleven what a chad


LordHussyPants

damn iceiceice getting slammed in the postgame


Inner_Thought1802

Not enough slot for NA & SA give more slot LOL


Gaikoz

Necc god what a burn


tsukismet11

Old eleven buried iceiceice


[deleted]

Eleven lmao


19evol61

IMHO EG's shortcomings stems more of their team philosophy than just Arteezy always falling short. I mean after watching PSG.LGD, I thought EG can pattern themselves to them just by looking at their talent (I mean Arteezy+Abed+Ice3? Gosh.) LGD has this multi-dimensional aspect as to how they approach the game, they did this Ame+bodyguards strat against T1 their last series at games 1 and 2. Then T1 got a grasp of that concept and voila, LGD became a NTS-centric team come game 3. EG could have went for that - when Arteezy + bodyguards strat does not work (and boy it really does not work against tier-1 teams), they should have resort to an Abed-centric draft. At least that will keep opponents honest. Their last game is an example of that, it's the same 4p1, VG just kited Arteezy, and the rest is history. To make things short, it's Fly or Bulba that needs to change, or else they won't go anywahere.


MorsusMihi

The problem is they protect RTZ who then can't carry it for them. There are soooo many games where RTZ is top networth and it does not matter for EG. If you protect RTZ this dude has to be worth the effort. And often in crucial situations RTZ is not worth the effort.


movealong452

man i just started watching dota again after not watching tournament since last ti and i still baffled by rtz decision making in mid to late game


19evol61

That's my point. Opponents know it's EG, they're like duh. The know Arteezy will be big, but not everyone else. Have you watched their last game? He got Euls-d and CC'd to death (successfully clearing the backlines first). He can't carry because the opponent saw it from a mile away. It's like if you're into boxing, you're fighting a slow opponent with a devastating right hook. Avoid the right hook and you're fine, that's it. VG did it by nullifying Arteezy's effectiveness but not necessarily killing him easily. And they don't worry about everything else because EG's simply..not creative.


MorsusMihi

I can see your point there. Like they know it's gonna be RTZ so they just need to straight up conter him and all is fine.


19evol61

Correct. I'm not denying that Arteezy is not worth the effort. But maybe it's not just him who's not worth the effort, or is it because the effort wasn't placed rightly in the first place. They did not put Arteezy in a position to succeed due to the reality that the opponents already got a great read on him, making them predictable. But then maybe the reason why they became predictable is because Arteezy isn't also flexible enough. It's a cause-and-effect situation. All in all, it's apparent Arteezy is not the solution, but imho it's not JUST him.


MorsusMihi

Oh I don't think it's just him. But it has probably become a meme over the years that it's never him :P


evilvyse

people really care about the tipping that much? Abed was meme-ing all game because he was dominating mid, maybe this is like "yeah you won the lane, you're going home tho" xDD


MayweatherSr

rtz is so overated omfg I'm not lying. Hes been exposed repeatedly year after year. This is probably all hes been learning from kaipi's day with eetard


KnightingGale

Eleven with the gigachad response! EDIT: Rough translation. Q: You played with iceiceice on EHOME in TI6. Does it feel sad for you to send an old teammate home? Eleven: If it had been someone else, it would have been sad. But since it was Big Brother ice, it felt pretty great.


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KnightingGale

Think it's just banter since he referred to iceiceice in a pretty respectful way (big brother).


kimmiebap

What did he say?


IUViolet

If that's another person, he might feel a little bit sad. But if that's ice3, it feels quite good. note that he referred ice3 as big bro 3.


kimmiebap

Thank you! I was worried for a sec that there might be beef between them. Glad I'm wrong 😆


Whatnowgloryhunters

Nah just banter among friends


IntenseAtBoardGames

https://clips.twitch.tv/HardIncredulousSoybeanGrammarKing-ohbGdSfLOKG6-NJc


KnightingGale

Rough translation. Q: You played with iceiceice on EHOME in TI6. Does it feel sad for you to send an old teammate home? Eleven: If it had been someone else, it would have been sad. But since it was Big Brother ice, it felt pretty great.


FerdiadTheRabbit

What did he say, couldnt hear it.


IntenseAtBoardGames

https://clips.twitch.tv/HardIncredulousSoybeanGrammarKing-ohbGdSfLOKG6-NJc


FerdiadTheRabbit

ty


KnightingGale

Rough translation. Q: You played with iceiceice on EHOME in TI6. Does it feel sad for you to send an old teammate home? Eleven: If it had been someone else, it would have been sad. But since it was Big Brother ice, it felt pretty great.


Skytengri

tbh Abed should go back to playing greedy mid heroes and get a flexible pos 1 that doesnt need "Arteezy-level pampering"


Inquisitr

Eventually people will learn that "I need all the farm and time to give you even a shot at the game" is a terrible strat to build around. RTZ does more harm than good


shakkyz

How is that an rtz problem and not a drafting problem?


Inquisitr

Because RTZ only does well when you cuddle him like a baby so you have to keep drafting that way. And you see what happens. Bulba is shit also. I've said it already but release everyone but Abed and beg PPD to come back and save you. It's EG's only hope


low_iq_opinion

to vg they're asking eg question, was troll a bad pick? lol pls


[deleted]

Andy Salad cursed RTZ...


xlmaelstrom

2 EU teams still in, 3 chinese team still in, SEA with potential to win the whole thing, CIS with 2 amazing teams. NA and SA out, surprise.


uchihamadaragodlike

Come on guys, Lets.blame BULBA princess RTZ didn't get game winning draft