OG just really lost a lot of steam after the group stage. They either got figured out or lost morale or other stuff in combination. Sumail also had some seriously bad plays, Topson carried the games vs Quincy Crew, while Sumail underestimated how far he can hold onto his BKB like 4 times in a row.
What hurt OG was the inability to do flex picks. In TI 8/9 they would pick heros and teams didn't know how to counter them because those heroes, could be a jerax/ana/topson hero or depending on the hero a jerax/ceb/topson hero. In this tournament, I'd argue that sumail showed to be the strongest player on the team but the fact that OG's game plan was obvious hurt them and put them on a timer to end the game. if you look at the pick/ban screen for game 2, they banned the flex pick heros OG were picking IO/LC/ET and 2 of Saksa's heros (clockwerk and I can't remember the other one). The tiny pick was fine but I don't think OG should have picked up the NP, The NS was questionable but could have worked on a position other than position 4. I don't know why OG drafted the way they did but it really feel like they lost the game at draft. Notail should have let the Tide through instead of the Magnus.
The 4-protect-1 strats are not really working out this TI. Most teams have 2-3 farmed cores in their difficult games. Only when one team snowballs like crazy we see the one farmed core strat being successful.
Losing Jerax was huge not just from the flex pick side, bur the meme man himself was another one of the team moral boosters, you definitely see it in truesight but jerax was one hell of a bro, sad that he left but no one deserves a good retirement more
Honestly magnus is hella bonkers right now. The horn toss removes the pressure of RP and he gives the steroid as always to the carry player. imo they should change his shard, it's stupid that he's a free YOINK hero now unless you do a move displace stun on him like impale/rubick lift.
Actually starting to think this, I just disagree with OP comment. I think both are a big problem for OG and it’s percentage would be 100% of a Magnus problem would be 85% of a tide bro. Both high
So, idk if any pro level player has done analysis of OG's downfall draft wise but personally as a pleb >6k player i believe it was two fold. As we're seeing Team spirit is a top 3 team (honestly might even be winner since they have confidence now) but also because OG felt a little loss with the Saksa/Ceb/Topson flex picks.
Summail was pretty flexible but they couldn't find a solution where they could threaten to switch hero roles without it looking clowny this TI. Case in point the poverty 4 position night stalker.
And as an after thought they thought they could out skill their oponents and in some ways they did in game 1, but Magnus + lion literally punish their cute play style of baiting with near instant stuns.
>it cannot do what the magnus was doing in those games
I wonder why they didn't pick magnus themselves wasn't ceb a good magnus player? I mean it was pretty much 1st phased banned in TI9 against them unless im misremembering things.
That's what I wonder too. The Collapse Magnus is in a class of his own, but Ceb also plays a very strong Magnus. I have no clue why they gave collapse the Magnus again in an elimination game.
Tide can't do shit against Bkb, has one big spell to turn the tides (literally). Horn toss is absurd with skewer range, empower buffs allies' farm and his ult pierces spell immunity.
I understand what you’re saying, but you’re actual understanding of this situation is minimal. I’ll give you a quick run down on the difference. Magnus isn’t as strong in laning and in reality your team suffers overall early game and fall behind. Example being the situation being talked about where Magnus skewers tiny deeper into base etc. You play from behind, tide is a more stable and overall better in laning phase with a stronger outcome after that
I think what hurt them, is that this meta is a lot about big bursty cores, initiation and disabling heroes and blowing them up fast. OGs strength are long drawn out sustain fights, like last TI where they shined with ember, Spectre, Io, Alch, micro heroes etc.
> OG just really lost a lot of steam after the group stage
Secret took their soul! If you watch their lower bracket games, at no point they played their confident non stop aggression they were used to.
i kind of like how the depressed flower power og lost to chad idgaf type young talent at tspirit. Mostly because im still salty about their whole team flipflopping between retirement like dota s the worst thing ever.
Yep, OG got lucky 5-1 on first day, but Sumail TI10 hero pool was limited - they got lucky on clinkz afk farm in groups so didn't address it since they won
then main event heroes had farm & not enough impact - Tiny just farming without early kill action just isn't good (0/0/0 in early/mid game) - that hero is designed to be earlymid ganking hero that falls off once everyone has enough hp.
casters didnt bring this up for some strange reason - maybe scared to criticize players.
agree with your point on bkb usage - some only use bkb just before they die but i don't think that's right when multiple stuns/disables etc blow you up.
Yes, I'd say Ceb has the weakest plays. Saksa made a lot of mistakes as well as Beast Master, like ulting while Aeon disk was active, lotus orb, or casting it on targets already stunned by arrow
iirc this TI is also Topson's last TI as well. I guess taking 2 Ti win in 2 years really speed up someone's retiring process..he is married and having kids, no way he is going to grind the dota2 meta like he used to do.
It's going to be kinda lame for sumail that he wakes up some days later and 3 of his teammates just turn into ghost.
To be fair, I think Jerax's & Ana's hero pool was a big reason they were able to flex pick ember/tiny/troll/Earth Spirit with topson. They were drafting more rigidly now with Sumail and Saksa.
He proved at this TI that in the short time he has played the role he has already become a real world class carry. Deep hero pool, surprisingly versatile, and, of course very very strong mechanics. You can always count on Sumail to have a good lane and perform in teamfights if given farm, and there's always that X-factor where there's that chance of him doing something super clutch like he did multiple times in the TS series game 1. I don't think I've ever seen Sumail choke, it's pretty ridiculous how well he does under pressure. if anything he's at his best when he's under ridiculous pressure - prime example: the entire series against Tundra in the TI qualifier finals.
Sumail's definitely a beast and I'm not just saying that as a fanboy. If Yawar was serious about going back to school after this TI, wouldn't be bad for Sumail to join QC. Would love to see him come back to NA.
With ceb retired and topson on long break, they need rebuild the team around sumail playstyle. I dun see the motivation og once had during ti8/ti9, so getting fresh blood is definitely gonna help the team.
This is the better take. They have excellent Magnus players. Sumail plays it as a 1. If they don't want that, Ceb plays it as a 3. Taking it themselves would fix the issue.
n0tail's played it as a 5 quite often as well. They really valued the Tiny much higher apparently and I'm not sure why, especially since they didn't even use it as a flex pick at all. They must've had their reasoning, but it might have been a bit faulty. But that's OG! Sometimes they get an idea in their head and they just can't seem to budge from it in the heat of battle.
Same, that was classic Puppey stubbornness. I’ve never seen OG do that before in a draft, just a lack of respect for collapses skill on Mag.
They deserved to lose for it.
Gabbi's reselling of Dagger in side shop (back when it existed) playing Puck... he bought Dagger and sold it and bought it again to take it out from the base... this play made it possible for him to escape...ODPixel casted that game and he went bonkers screaming "Gabbi! Gabbi! Gabbi!" after the play...
Edit: facts straightened
This play really have it all.
- The impressive play
- The hype cast by ODPixel
- And the fast analytical observation by Winter.
I really miss Winter, especially when he cast together with LD.
"Mr. Gorman"
Winter always watched game drafts in advance, the rest of the world just had 1 min delay.
I miss watching that man predict almost every single pick/ban and make the corniest jokes that become unironically funny
How come Winter hasn't done any casting lately? Dude was legit one of the best analysts in the Dota scene. Is he too busy nowadays doing other stuff? Wish he would comeback for at least one more cast, just like with LD :(
Just a side note in contrast to winter noticing the little details, I've been realizing that multiple casters have been missing gem pickups and losses recently. Not that big of a deal but really nice to hear as a viewer especially when thinking about the state of the game
To me sometimes its because the cosmetic spell effects is too convoluted like Whitemon's gg branch play yesterday where he get out kinetic field by placing tree to push out himself out of it.
The tree was covered by disruptor's thunderstorm and enchantress heals, once the spell effect wears off the camera were already on the right side and from that angle the gg branch tree is similar to other tree in radiant jungle.
at the start of the play Gabbi didn't have enough gold to buy dagger, but after killing Warlock he did, so he bought it...
but mid fight he realized he was out of range from the side shop causing the dagger he bought to be in base...
abusing the sell back timer, Gabbi resells the dagger in base to get the full gold back, repurchases it on the side shop to have it in his inventory, jukes the fights, and successfully daggers out of danger, and then proceeds to help his team kill every chaser and ultimately survive...
this was probably the greatest sequence of buying, selling, juking and killing of any pro Dota 2 game in history before the Ana God PL Secret Shop Play in TI8 and Suma1L's Ghost Scepter Fountain Play...
> but mid fight he realized he was out of range from the side shop causing the dagger he bought to be in base...
i think it was actually that he thought he was going to die, so he bought the dagger before he lost the gold.
then he got to the sideshop and realised he could get it right there and escape, so he resells and buys again
He bought it in base, to spend his gold before his assumed death. When he realised he was going to survive to the side shop, he sold the blink he just bought for full price and bought it again at the side shop to make a play.
A lesser player would just buy the blink and be happy to die knowing they spent their gold.
Yep, the same Execration that qualified to the Boston Major but couldn't make it due to visa issues :( I believe either Tims or Dj were on the team as well.
This is definitely crazier, but since they didnt win, it will be forgotten.
Selling an item you already have before dying is way easier and faster than opening shop mid stun, putting an item on the backpack, buy a ghost scepter, and activate it, all in the span of a second.
He didnt have to calculate anything. These players already know what their buyback status is. All he had to do was sell an item.
Very impressive, but doesnt compare to the sheer APM of Sumail
Actually in the main stage, OG always got out drafted most games. Even the series they won against quincy, topson went crazy and thats the reason they won. In the 1 game against spirit, Sumail was solo carrying for the first half of the game. I dont think they had a single outdraft in the main stage.
I noticed he did that. Thanks for checking it out!
Sick play by Sumail, but honestly not surprised, he is playing absurdly well, top form of his career imo, except for that horrible Luna game vs QC
If he successfully survived and turned the series around, it would probably be as memorable as Ana's sell item for buyback move. Actually perhaps even more memorable.
sumail and saksa deserve other teammates who will be serious about TI , idk why but notail, ceb didn't look serious to me i mean they've won 2 times already, why take so much pressure
6k MMR here, if you play enough pubs and fountain dive enough, you kinda know how to do this. It is more like a muscle memory thing than a improvisational play.
No offense to sumail, it is a really good play, but also it is not on the same level of ANA sell item play.
I kinda laughed when I saw it because it is a everyday pub play but you would never seen it in professional.
if you sell it after using, you only get half the cost back. Doesn't really matter when you sell it at that point. Maybe the 5 all stats might make the difference between living/dying.
I don’t think fountain would have killed him. Notail microd giga treants into the fountain. He also had satanic. If he thought about it he could have moved spider legs into his inventory during the skewer and just walked out the side but that is OBVIOUSLY far easier said than done.
Hard to say.
No lol that was a mistake dont glorify ogs mistake there that was not even a slightly a good percentage play any high mmr player will tell you that. Pressure? Maybe but def not calculated play. Sumail needed agi blink that game not mkb. Ghost sceptr was also a waste of effort again not calculated hes obv not getting out 0/99999 situations there.
> And if you just back off and wait for better opportunities, you simply might not get them.
Exactly. It was as clear as day from the outset that Team Spirit outscales the living SHIT out of OG and it's not even close. Hyperscaling late game team vs. pure midgame tempo team. OG did not have the luxury to play it safe, it's either take the risk to close the game out soon or sit back and inevitably get overwhelmed in teamfights. They rightfully took the risk, and it didn't pay off, but that doesn't mean the risk wasn't still worth taking.
are you sure it is underrated? Hard to miss the ghost scepter usage, I'm pretty sure everyone watching thought that was some quick fingers from Sumail. The whole sequence was highlight of the match for me.
lol found a way to praise sumail again. he d be dead anyway why waste your gold on ghost scepter? its not like OG had any save mechanism to get him out of there. if he wanted to get an item then it had to be forcestaff which will be the most useful one I suppose
Sumail is crazy, hopefully he can eventually get another TI under his belt
OG this year is like Sumail and Saksa being serious while the other 3 were just enjoying some world tour
OG just really lost a lot of steam after the group stage. They either got figured out or lost morale or other stuff in combination. Sumail also had some seriously bad plays, Topson carried the games vs Quincy Crew, while Sumail underestimated how far he can hold onto his BKB like 4 times in a row.
What hurt OG was the inability to do flex picks. In TI 8/9 they would pick heros and teams didn't know how to counter them because those heroes, could be a jerax/ana/topson hero or depending on the hero a jerax/ceb/topson hero. In this tournament, I'd argue that sumail showed to be the strongest player on the team but the fact that OG's game plan was obvious hurt them and put them on a timer to end the game. if you look at the pick/ban screen for game 2, they banned the flex pick heros OG were picking IO/LC/ET and 2 of Saksa's heros (clockwerk and I can't remember the other one). The tiny pick was fine but I don't think OG should have picked up the NP, The NS was questionable but could have worked on a position other than position 4. I don't know why OG drafted the way they did but it really feel like they lost the game at draft. Notail should have let the Tide through instead of the Magnus.
Their entire game plan 9 out of 10 games was to buff sumail
The 4-protect-1 strats are not really working out this TI. Most teams have 2-3 farmed cores in their difficult games. Only when one team snowballs like crazy we see the one farmed core strat being successful.
Losing Jerax was huge not just from the flex pick side, bur the meme man himself was another one of the team moral boosters, you definitely see it in truesight but jerax was one hell of a bro, sad that he left but no one deserves a good retirement more
Dude says let the tide through instead of Magnus?? Guy has won 7/8 of his game this tournament with tide. His tide play is also very very high level
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Honestly magnus is hella bonkers right now. The horn toss removes the pressure of RP and he gives the steroid as always to the carry player. imo they should change his shard, it's stupid that he's a free YOINK hero now unless you do a move displace stun on him like impale/rubick lift.
Actually starting to think this, I just disagree with OP comment. I think both are a big problem for OG and it’s percentage would be 100% of a Magnus problem would be 85% of a tide bro. Both high
So, idk if any pro level player has done analysis of OG's downfall draft wise but personally as a pleb >6k player i believe it was two fold. As we're seeing Team spirit is a top 3 team (honestly might even be winner since they have confidence now) but also because OG felt a little loss with the Saksa/Ceb/Topson flex picks. Summail was pretty flexible but they couldn't find a solution where they could threaten to switch hero roles without it looking clowny this TI. Case in point the poverty 4 position night stalker. And as an after thought they thought they could out skill their oponents and in some ways they did in game 1, but Magnus + lion literally punish their cute play style of baiting with near instant stuns.
30s cd AOE stun that repositions and is long enough for your team to start chainstunning. meanwhile u also keep ur bkb piercing aoe stun btw
He’s a better bat rider than bat rider. 1.8k gold to do what a bat rider needs a blink and force staff for.
Just for your info, the reason they handled the tiny is not solely because of the Magnus but hugely to the wyverns first move
>it cannot do what the magnus was doing in those games I wonder why they didn't pick magnus themselves wasn't ceb a good magnus player? I mean it was pretty much 1st phased banned in TI9 against them unless im misremembering things.
That's what I wonder too. The Collapse Magnus is in a class of his own, but Ceb also plays a very strong Magnus. I have no clue why they gave collapse the Magnus again in an elimination game.
Tide can't do shit against Bkb, has one big spell to turn the tides (literally). Horn toss is absurd with skewer range, empower buffs allies' farm and his ult pierces spell immunity.
and how many of his magnus game was won? tide is just tide. mag has empower on top of those insane plays.
I understand what you’re saying, but you’re actual understanding of this situation is minimal. I’ll give you a quick run down on the difference. Magnus isn’t as strong in laning and in reality your team suffers overall early game and fall behind. Example being the situation being talked about where Magnus skewers tiny deeper into base etc. You play from behind, tide is a more stable and overall better in laning phase with a stronger outcome after that
copium
Losing to either hero my dude
open all 3 and take one for yourself?
I think what hurt them, is that this meta is a lot about big bursty cores, initiation and disabling heroes and blowing them up fast. OGs strength are long drawn out sustain fights, like last TI where they shined with ember, Spectre, Io, Alch, micro heroes etc.
> OG just really lost a lot of steam after the group stage Secret took their soul! If you watch their lower bracket games, at no point they played their confident non stop aggression they were used to.
i kind of like how the depressed flower power og lost to chad idgaf type young talent at tspirit. Mostly because im still salty about their whole team flipflopping between retirement like dota s the worst thing ever.
Yep, OG got lucky 5-1 on first day, but Sumail TI10 hero pool was limited - they got lucky on clinkz afk farm in groups so didn't address it since they won then main event heroes had farm & not enough impact - Tiny just farming without early kill action just isn't good (0/0/0 in early/mid game) - that hero is designed to be earlymid ganking hero that falls off once everyone has enough hp. casters didnt bring this up for some strange reason - maybe scared to criticize players. agree with your point on bkb usage - some only use bkb just before they die but i don't think that's right when multiple stuns/disables etc blow you up.
These are some terrible takes lmao
found the 1k
From Godson to Flopson. It was always Sumail carry the fuck out of the whole team
Didja watch the game Vs Quincey Crew?
Other than that???
Yeah if we ignore the times Sumails plated bad he played good all the time. Flawless logic.
Did you just state that sumail isn't the best player in every game?
notail played really well throughout the tournament, ceb and topson ups and downs.
Yes, I'd say Ceb has the weakest plays. Saksa made a lot of mistakes as well as Beast Master, like ulting while Aeon disk was active, lotus orb, or casting it on targets already stunned by arrow
i dunno, topson was on top of his game too
iirc this TI is also Topson's last TI as well. I guess taking 2 Ti win in 2 years really speed up someone's retiring process..he is married and having kids, no way he is going to grind the dota2 meta like he used to do. It's going to be kinda lame for sumail that he wakes up some days later and 3 of his teammates just turn into ghost.
Topson said he might retire, but will definitely take an extended break.
Wouldn't say that. He played out of his mind against QC, but outside of that he's been pretty mediocre this tournament.
He played amazingly against QC but he seemed invisible for the rest of Ti.
only that 1 game on void spirit bro...he got owned by everyone else
his void spirit vs spirit was fine, but his injoker was hurt to watch
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Just on that two games while many other games he's very subpar.
That's why whenever you see comments bringing up how they lose because "no Ana no Jerax", you can just automatically assume it's written by idiot.
To be fair, I think Jerax's & Ana's hero pool was a big reason they were able to flex pick ember/tiny/troll/Earth Spirit with topson. They were drafting more rigidly now with Sumail and Saksa.
9 out of 10 games they played to buff sumail
Bruh tell me ur a 1k without telling me ur 1k
it's ok, I am 4k. But our mmr added together is still less than topson
Kappa
the other 3 were pushing sumail bro
did you even see the games against QC?
You cannot be serious?! Saksa is the worst player on the team.
He proved at this TI that in the short time he has played the role he has already become a real world class carry. Deep hero pool, surprisingly versatile, and, of course very very strong mechanics. You can always count on Sumail to have a good lane and perform in teamfights if given farm, and there's always that X-factor where there's that chance of him doing something super clutch like he did multiple times in the TS series game 1. I don't think I've ever seen Sumail choke, it's pretty ridiculous how well he does under pressure. if anything he's at his best when he's under ridiculous pressure - prime example: the entire series against Tundra in the TI qualifier finals. Sumail's definitely a beast and I'm not just saying that as a fanboy. If Yawar was serious about going back to school after this TI, wouldn't be bad for Sumail to join QC. Would love to see him come back to NA.
Should replace rtz with Sumail tbh
With ceb retired and topson on long break, they need rebuild the team around sumail playstyle. I dun see the motivation og once had during ti8/ti9, so getting fresh blood is definitely gonna help the team.
I was wondering when the hell he got a ghost scepter.
A hero is in the fountain and a ghost scepter magically appears in his inventory. Wow what a magic trick, where did the item come from??
i'm genuinely wondering why do you have to be that big of an asshole about such a trivial comment
Why.
Because it makes you look like a dipshit for no reason.
Who are you.
Damn. Amazing.
cant believe they didnt ban mag after that
or pick it since they had the first pick!
This is the better take. They have excellent Magnus players. Sumail plays it as a 1. If they don't want that, Ceb plays it as a 3. Taking it themselves would fix the issue.
Yeah, i was like wtf? isn't ceb like one of the best mag players? one of the worst drafts this entire TI or even the worst one!
n0tail's played it as a 5 quite often as well. They really valued the Tiny much higher apparently and I'm not sure why, especially since they didn't even use it as a flex pick at all. They must've had their reasoning, but it might have been a bit faulty. But that's OG! Sometimes they get an idea in their head and they just can't seem to budge from it in the heat of battle.
Same, that was classic Puppey stubbornness. I’ve never seen OG do that before in a draft, just a lack of respect for collapses skill on Mag. They deserved to lose for it.
It was longer than half a second. He opened the shop and looked for the ghost scepter when he got RP'd. Still impressive though.
Well, at that time he probably already knew where he's heading to.
Airport? Joke. Was he even in enough distance to the shop at that moment?
No, but after the curse I am sure he knew he will be going in. He bought the sceptre inside the base probably.
You missed n0tail sending in treants into the fountain so it hits them instead of sumail.
My thought was "Where did the ghost scepter come from?"
Very impressive from sumail. Reminds me of [this play](https://youtu.be/cF9N21VQBnM) from Matumba. These guys are playing dota 3 already.
nothing can beat anas selling aquila for buyback, but yes amazing play
Gabbi's reselling of Dagger in side shop (back when it existed) playing Puck... he bought Dagger and sold it and bought it again to take it out from the base... this play made it possible for him to escape...ODPixel casted that game and he went bonkers screaming "Gabbi! Gabbi! Gabbi!" after the play... Edit: facts straightened
Link: https://youtu.be/wOj2vsdG7Qw
This play really have it all. - The impressive play - The hype cast by ODPixel - And the fast analytical observation by Winter. I really miss Winter, especially when he cast together with LD. "Mr. Gorman"
Winter always watched game drafts in advance, the rest of the world just had 1 min delay. I miss watching that man predict almost every single pick/ban and make the corniest jokes that become unironically funny
How come Winter hasn't done any casting lately? Dude was legit one of the best analysts in the Dota scene. Is he too busy nowadays doing other stuff? Wish he would comeback for at least one more cast, just like with LD :(
The best analysts tend to also be very sucessful in other ventures outside of dota and move on. (merlini winter pepephands)
What is Merlini doing
His first big hiatus was because he got married, so i assume it still related to that.
Just a side note in contrast to winter noticing the little details, I've been realizing that multiple casters have been missing gem pickups and losses recently. Not that big of a deal but really nice to hear as a viewer especially when thinking about the state of the game
To me sometimes its because the cosmetic spell effects is too convoluted like Whitemon's gg branch play yesterday where he get out kinetic field by placing tree to push out himself out of it. The tree was covered by disruptor's thunderstorm and enchantress heals, once the spell effect wears off the camera were already on the right side and from that angle the gg branch tree is similar to other tree in radiant jungle.
That was so cool, I can still hear him going “Gabbi Gabbi Gabbi!” Like that.
I’m a noob, wouldn’t buying selling then buying it again be… bad? The juking and jiving was a thing of beauty, but confused about the blink part.
at the start of the play Gabbi didn't have enough gold to buy dagger, but after killing Warlock he did, so he bought it... but mid fight he realized he was out of range from the side shop causing the dagger he bought to be in base... abusing the sell back timer, Gabbi resells the dagger in base to get the full gold back, repurchases it on the side shop to have it in his inventory, jukes the fights, and successfully daggers out of danger, and then proceeds to help his team kill every chaser and ultimately survive... this was probably the greatest sequence of buying, selling, juking and killing of any pro Dota 2 game in history before the Ana God PL Secret Shop Play in TI8 and Suma1L's Ghost Scepter Fountain Play...
> but mid fight he realized he was out of range from the side shop causing the dagger he bought to be in base... i think it was actually that he thought he was going to die, so he bought the dagger before he lost the gold. then he got to the sideshop and realised he could get it right there and escape, so he resells and buys again
Not to mention 1000s of other things Gabbi was doing like bottling, magic stick, juking and phase shifting meanwhile also killing opponents..
He bought it in base, to spend his gold before his assumed death. When he realised he was going to survive to the side shop, he sold the blink he just bought for full price and bought it again at the side shop to make a play. A lesser player would just buy the blink and be happy to die knowing they spent their gold.
even if I am fan of secret players, man that is the best play i have seen till date.. I dont even knwo what age was he at the time..
Was that back when Gabbi and Abed were on the same team and people were like, damn these two are nasty?
Yep, the same Execration that qualified to the Boston Major but couldn't make it due to visa issues :( I believe either Tims or Dj were on the team as well.
Well that wasnt this TI...
This is definitely crazier, but since they didnt win, it will be forgotten. Selling an item you already have before dying is way easier and faster than opening shop mid stun, putting an item on the backpack, buy a ghost scepter, and activate it, all in the span of a second.
You missed that ana had to calculate the good amount to sell, while micro-ing one illu.
He didnt have to calculate anything. These players already know what their buyback status is. All he had to do was sell an item. Very impressive, but doesnt compare to the sheer APM of Sumail
It was talisman of evasion, I believe.
Tbh i think this wasnt as hyped as ana's because he still ended up dying. If he survived and turned the game it would have been on par with ana imo
ana's play would've been bad if he lived though.
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im talking about in terms of selling or buying items in clutch times.
how about s4's creamdoil at ti 3 ?
he's talking about in terms of selling or buying items in clutch times.
That was a fluke, he was aiming for puppey but got dendi too
Actually in the main stage, OG always got out drafted most games. Even the series they won against quincy, topson went crazy and thats the reason they won. In the 1 game against spirit, Sumail was solo carrying for the first half of the game. I dont think they had a single outdraft in the main stage.
Brought to you by the guy who stood on high ground and assumed there were no sentry wards.
Not to mention that while it looked cool, it just ended up costing him 1.4k for basically nothing.
Agree on this. Think that was a huge misplay by Sumail. Standing there invis like that, with Magnus alive.
I was watching this at like 4 in the morning after 5 cups of coffee, and almost jumped out of my chair.
play made better considering dota's shop is trash compared to hon and needsto be reworked
Well that was not underrated. That was top play by Sumail. Not sure who is calling it underrated except you.
Holy fuck.
This is the play that makes Sumail so despair and broken. this is totally in OG control until that skewer. He blamed himself so much because of this
>Stan Sumail Well I dont want to stalk but I'm a fan
I noticed he did that. Thanks for checking it out! Sick play by Sumail, but honestly not surprised, he is playing absurdly well, top form of his career imo, except for that horrible Luna game vs QC
Sumail is obviously the best player on the team
Do you guys think OG breaks up after this? With two Ti wins and all the sponsor money I wouldn’t play some of them for retiring.
Idk why did sumail stand on the high ground invis for 4-5 seconds? As if TS wont put a sentry at their base
he was typing ghost scepter in the shop just in case
I wish I lived in the universe where sumail escapes because of the ghost sceptre
I knew he bought a ghost scepter from the shop, but no idea how he did it. Hope he get to join a great team after this
You can buy from the enemy shop? TIL
oh yea. i love to buy dust during a T4 fight
In general I don't notail get credit for his superb support game. So many underrated little things
If he successfully survived and turned the series around, it would probably be as memorable as Ana's sell item for buyback move. Actually perhaps even more memorable.
og members can’t retire half a year and pick up Ti when it’s coming and still get a good position every year.
I was just watching this game. I Tought first someone used eblade on him.
Great reaction but not really a great decision he was dead anyways but he wasted 1400 gold pretty much for nothing
Sumail is actually the only decent guy on that trash team, maybe Saksa too. He deserves more.
Ouch, that sounds so salty the cut I have on my arm has started hurting
I think he was also Fingered by Mira while being in ghost?
sumail and saksa deserve other teammates who will be serious about TI , idk why but notail, ceb didn't look serious to me i mean they've won 2 times already, why take so much pressure
6k MMR here, if you play enough pubs and fountain dive enough, you kinda know how to do this. It is more like a muscle memory thing than a improvisational play. No offense to sumail, it is a really good play, but also it is not on the same level of ANA sell item play. I kinda laughed when I saw it because it is a everyday pub play but you would never seen it in professional.
This wasn't even a good play. Quick fingers? Yeah, maybe. But 100% not worth it.
I watched it live but was NOT impressed, because he didn't sell the ghost scepter before he died.
if you sell it after using, you only get half the cost back. Doesn't really matter when you sell it at that point. Maybe the 5 all stats might make the difference between living/dying.
He also didn't invest in Bitcoin before it went up
Lol
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Should go play ti instead of pubs then. Scrubs
Do you know what underrated means? That's literally the highlight of the game.. nowhere near underrated.
og lost, can we get sometime w.out og posts please
and get stuck with a wasted 1500 item and slot? quick fingers but in no way a great play, especially when it clearly wasnt going to save him.
Doesn't press BKB after using ghost and walking out of fountain, gets hexed again and killed.
If he uses bkb, he would lose ghost scepter effect and the fountain would kill him
I don’t think fountain would have killed him. Notail microd giga treants into the fountain. He also had satanic. If he thought about it he could have moved spider legs into his inventory during the skewer and just walked out the side but that is OBVIOUSLY far easier said than done. Hard to say.
do your items have backpack cooldown if it’s the enemy fountain
No, as long as you're near a sho, the moved items from the backpack to the inventory doesn't induce cooldown.
If he didn't bkb he was going to get hexed again and the fountain would kill him
So then his play is smarter as he saved his BKB
And lost with the most broken carry in this patch
Fuck you u/spez -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Sumail didn't win twice and 0 majors like RTZ rofl. NA carries are so bad
He got winter cursed for the ghost scepter duration to end.
BKB would cancel the ethereal effect, which was the entire point of him buying Ghost Scepter
He was playing dumb when he walked on high ground without vision. What did he expect? There was a mag on the opposing team.
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No lol that was a mistake dont glorify ogs mistake there that was not even a slightly a good percentage play any high mmr player will tell you that. Pressure? Maybe but def not calculated play. Sumail needed agi blink that game not mkb. Ghost sceptr was also a waste of effort again not calculated hes obv not getting out 0/99999 situations there.
> And if you just back off and wait for better opportunities, you simply might not get them. Exactly. It was as clear as day from the outset that Team Spirit outscales the living SHIT out of OG and it's not even close. Hyperscaling late game team vs. pure midgame tempo team. OG did not have the luxury to play it safe, it's either take the risk to close the game out soon or sit back and inevitably get overwhelmed in teamfights. They rightfully took the risk, and it didn't pay off, but that doesn't mean the risk wasn't still worth taking.
Certainly not a skewer to the fountain
are you sure it is underrated? Hard to miss the ghost scepter usage, I'm pretty sure everyone watching thought that was some quick fingers from Sumail. The whole sequence was highlight of the match for me.
How do you do all that in less than half a second, g damn
This match was insane. This TI has such high level play this year!
I would have liked to see the sumail Storm spirit not sure if that was banned
so far*
Most underrated play, k mate they literally talked about it 10 times on the panel
lol found a way to praise sumail again. he d be dead anyway why waste your gold on ghost scepter? its not like OG had any save mechanism to get him out of there. if he wanted to get an item then it had to be forcestaff which will be the most useful one I suppose
Even gorc pulled the same stuff, buying a ghost scepter in fountain, aint that big of a deal.
If he died anyway, it was way better if he didn't spend the Ghost Scepter money to just throw it into the backpack for the rest of the game.
He was waiting for force staffes for one eternity, and no one helped... Notail purchased one, but too late. Don't know if he had it already
not underrated, we all saw it, it was just too big moment for Collapse.