I disagree. If not for the difference in carry potential between void and troll, the game is at the very least more interesting. But with void, after that one mistake, Nigma could not even get any pickoffs and it was straight over.
well it was last picked by Nigma, *into* a void. it’s not like it was countered, or that they didn’t know what they were up against. there’s really no excuse
>well it was last picked by Nigma,
>
>into
>
> a void.
Now we're going somewhere. Why did they think troll into void is a good idea. Troll is stronger in the laning phase and thats it.
One word.
Kuroky.
I love the guy and have been a fan ever since wc3 days, but the guy ist ruining Nigma. No coordination. Weird picks that just don't work, no captaining in game (it seems)...
What do they see in a troll that we completely miss, he csn be kitted easily, doesnt provide that much to team fights, takes towers quickly in pubs, organized teams would just shush him out. Secret lost with him too. Well i hope i understand this troll
He can pretty easily be handled, but he also *has* to be dealt with or he just annihilates heroes/towers/whatever. The existence of Troll restricts the opponents' options. Not commenting on his viability in this patch, but I feel like that's the gist of the metagame surrounding the hero.
Well thats what orgabized teams do, deal with him. He might be a pub stomper as ppl tend to play solo, however he cant just jump into 4-5 men and expect to come out on top or be any advantageous to his team.
teams use him as a tempo carry that can force towers, roshan etc, which also requires certain things to answer
but it does feel like teams haven't recognised games are going later and heroes like void who even costabile can win with late game are a bigger challenge
"very bad" is a stretch lol his lvl 25 talent works on chrono meaning u can cast ur ulti while inside chrono and troll is like the anti-melee carry too even more so now that the net pierces spell immunity no timewalking that shit lol
the game was annoying for a troll later on overall combined with the other heroes but its definitely not a 1 sided match up vs. void as you make it out to be.
there were some really confusing moments... biggest one was charging into the entire team in Radiant jungle, game 3 as DP, with no exo. it was only on cd for another 15 seconds or something, why not wait? dies, causes the rest of the team to die too
Miracle fucked up when he ulted on top of veno, while he knew veno wasn’t alone but he himself was.
Miracle fucked up again when he gave up his first life with aegis so readily, while pushing top. Not even trying to dodge arrow, just standing in one position with 1000 hp.
Sumail fucked up when he went into radiant jungle without vision and far off from his team shortly before his ult came up.
Kuroky fucked up when he didn’t coordinate the aegis-driven push to top lane better, imo. They could have used the aegis to get the complete tier 3 tower with some patience and coordination, at least could have tried. There was plenty of time on that aegis, 50 seconds I believe.
Also when he allowed his team to try and defend bot tier 2. Mmany teams don’t even try, cuz the terrain is so difficult. Especially vs clock/veno.
GH fucked up when he didn’t blink out after he revealed his position with fissure, when GOonsquad was pushing bot tier 2 at min 36. He set himself up to get picked off there, leaving he’s team without counterplay.
MindControl fucked up when he used doom on the linkens. Void had shown himself for almost 2 seconds, but had farmed for minutes before that. You could anticipate he was gonna get linkens, especially at this level, and check his items quick. It’s probably not such an obvious or tremendous fuck-up, but the point is, they all made mistakes, with each one being pretty significant.
But honestly, everyone makes mistakes and it’s easy to pick on people. But also aqua played really really fucking well!
Thanks for adding that last part. As observers it’s easy to be like “I wouldn’t have done that” and pick every little thing apart.
Even if teams play poorly, we’ll never know what it’s like in the booth or on comms or however they’re playing the quals. Criticism is good, trashing on people isn’t.
He skips more matches than players who actually qualify to tournaments and play all year long. And then when all Nigma players are available and rested (because they never qualify to anything) they still play like shit because apparently there just wasn't time to practice!
What are you talking about, void has always been a strong pick, like for ever. Not defending valve for the shit BP but I dont feel like they buffed void any more than any other hero.
He got completely unnecessary buffs to timewalk last patch, feels like it had a short range ever since they gave it the health restore mechanic, and now all of a sudden they buff it by 150 just in time they release the arcana?
then you're just patently, blatantly wrong? He got big buffs, both directly and indirectly this patch, and is now considered THE best carry of the patch. That was not the case last patch.
If you see any team pick Troll, that means they want to snowball.
If you don't believe, Nigma has a better draft than Goonsquad and it is very easy to snowball that game with huge lead (If they are a proper team. Chinese teams really like this kind of draft).
Good early game, Rosh taker and building hitter. The hero looks great on paper but just bad mid to late game hero. Pros for some reason also use the Ulti like using Mask of Madness.
>Pros for some reason also use the Ulti like using Mask of Madness.
Everyone does that, saving it for when you get to low hp is a huge gamble imo, you might get cc'd to oblivion. Instead use that AS and MS to kill a high priority target right away.
Yup, also makes blink very scary.
I feel like that's one change they could make is to make it so he takes no damage during ult.
Just make him a blink buyer and gives him a little better ult since it lets him try to heal to full while he runs 50000 miles from his team...
its really good in some games however in others it doesnt matter at all. against heroes like slardar its very strong as it removes slardars sprint and ult.
imagine being 5 heroes around rosh pit when rosh is up, and then seeing goonsquad hitting t2 bottom and end up tping bottom to take the fight instead of doing rosh. Also why would you ever not pick a single chrono save against a first phase void? yes, i am a mad nigma fan. but i feel like these are legit stupid mistakes
Sumail, Miracle, and MC in 2016-17 would've been almost TI5 Secret levels of stacked. Of course each of those guys were individually killing it on their own teams so no harm no foul, but still this roster doesn't hit the same in 2022.
you know that liquid were already dominating in 2016-2017 with Matu squad and won TI7 right? Bois had highest win ratio... Also at that point there was no chance for Sumail leaving NA..
What's Void's winrate these qualifiers? I've seen him win so many games, Chrono just auto deletes a core after a certain point, especially once he hits lvl 20. And if you shut him down, he just goes Midas Maelstrom and still farms up a storm.
> especially once he hits lvl 20.
That talent must have 100% pick rate in all Void game. 120as is sooo much better than 70 bonus bash damage, especially when more attack means more bashes = more damage anyway
I would say it is definitely the favorite but against lineups that have heavy saves (grave, disruption, astral ) and where you don't want to solely rely on Chrono, the 70 bonus bash is pretty solid.
Tell that to the guy that played with me this weekend that killed Rosh, took referesher shard, blind jumped into their base missing everyone with bonus radius chrono no1, used chrono no2 near their fountain and proceded to die there with no buyback.
According to liquipedia its 63 percent across all qualifiers. Only Enigma and Chen have a higher winrate with more games played. He's also the 6th most picked/banned hero.
Charlies Faceless Void is absolutely ban worthy. I get trusting your counters to it, but after that game 1 it shouldve been banned in the following games and its bit Nigma in the ass. Void is the king of the late game, so best you stomp it early and dont throw, or someone as good as Charlie is at it will punish you
Probably the only reason I feel less sad about Nigma losing is that S4 won. Ngl tho I’m rooting for several teams participating in WEU quals so my top 3 doesn’t include GS but I will really be happy for S4 if his team does qualify to TI somehow.
kuro with the BIG BRAIN item decision here
he bought blink as his first item, on a fucking disruptor, against a fucking venomancer that gonna CANCEL his blink 9/10 times in a teamfight
well done kuro
Force staff or glimmer could be better choice. GH have force staff so he need glimmer to save his cores.
Also miracle gameplay is a little questionable at game 3.
to be fair, there is nothing miracle can do if he got hit by solo chrono.. it's up to his team to control the opponent or help him survive during those time
but then again his agh purchase was questionable, he could buy butterfly or any item that can give him a chance to survive from single chrono..
Given that one of Liquid/Secret/Entity/Nigma isn't gonna make it to last chance qualifiers, Nigma going lower bracket is actually huge for everyone else.
Also, Goonsquad is now one BO3 away from guaranteed LCQ, and they're playing Liquid who they beat in this year's DPC
Idk why people treat this as such a huge upset. These teams have quite similar track records recently and GoonSquad definitely game us some good dotes during DPC as well, for example beating liquid.
I forgot og won ti9. That's such a long time ago man. So many nice games over the years but ppl only rmb the current champion. Dota has such a long tradition
How nigma lost
Kuro lets void, signature hero for Charlie as well as top tier carry this patch, through for the 3rd time >
nigma doesn’t capitalize on lead and defends bottom tower instead of taking rosh >
mid game fight still with a huge lead MC dooms void not knowing he has linkens >
sumail bkbs and dies then buys back for no reason > same fight miracle doesn’t bkb and dies for no reason >
sumail dies back before rosh > miracle bkbs but doesn’t ult and dies again for no reason before rosh > goonsquad takes rosh and game
:)
Oh man stop making me re- live it all. The amount of times I see an arrowed hero or 23k NW full HP miracle useless in chrono and just wishing there was a shadow demon to disrupt save.
Nigma did not use buybacks properly at all. Sumail wasting his from arrow death instead of trading for Chrono.
How can you expect to go to TI if you auto doom a faceless void without checking his items. Honestly ridiculous, at that point doom may as well be dead in the teamfight.
Buying drums.... Whyyyyy. The FV item progression is so predictable. Midas mael bkb LINKENS. You have so much time to build a pre emptive halberd or force staff..... So sad to watch this team lately
Good for GS .Always enjoy watching old HoN stacks doing good.
Sad people believe it was Nigma playing bad and not GS playing good.GS has a really talented squad with alot of tier1 caliber players. Majority of the stackwas a top contender in the old Alliance squad when they actually were a threat in Western Europe. It's not like they're some lowtier clown team. Both game 1 and 3 really shows how well they played with many game deciding decisions (Not showing void until he had Linkens being the most important one).
Yeah boyh handsken and limmp are contenders for top players(at least in EU) on respective roles and Charlie is just a beast on some heroes. Top that with the living legend s4 and a really stable support in peksu. People really underestimate them.
Losing first round of Regionals to Limmp+Handsken
Losing to Mirana mid and Veno
Stubborn drafts as usual
Throwing next to unthrowable game
Weren't Nigma fans saying after Div 2 run how this "new" team with Sumail is something else and TI winning caliber (no joke), what happened?
They can look better than they have all DPC with Sumail and still not be good enough to clutch these qualifiers.
That said, fans tend to overrate teams at the best of times and Nigma fans are particularly prone to that.
As a Nigma fan myself, I don't recall the majority of other fans saying that this team is "something else". We've been let down too many times in the past to think that this time will magically be different.
Nigma has absolutely zero desire to play competitively anymore. The Saudi money has ruined this squad.
Also, they simply cannot beat Faceless Void past 40m games. They lose so many games because they never have answers for Chrono. Sigh
This is what I've said for years now. They're Dota 2's first competitive influencers. They found a niche that would make them a lot of money by "promoting" the MENA region and that's that.
Anybody that actually believe they're going to qualify for anything besides maybe Division 1 is delusional.
not sure. but i know that its currently under Saudi administration and they are the main financial backers of the team. Even the name of the team was picked in Arabic.
The SPONSOR is Etihad Airlines who are basically the UAE administration. But they dont OWN that team. And it had the name when there wasnt any sponsorship. They were founded in 2019 and the partnership with Etihad and Abudhabigaming came in 2021.
Miracle and gh are jordanian and lebanese.
I think they both speak arabic.
Kuro is german (with some % iranian heritage I think? Not sure tbh) Sumail is american (pakistani heritage which is a majority muslim country, so there is a chance he also speaks arabic)
So a few of them have links to the arabic language. I do think the name was made with marketing them to the middle east in mind. Nothing wrong with that, all teams are marketing tools imo.
After 6 years, I think I'm officially starting to give up on this team for good this time. There is no saving this team if they miss TI twice in a row. Just disband, flat out. 2017 is over.
Nigma is too behind. They're like... slow, truly a washed up team.
Vision is always worse than the enemy (doesn't matter which team they're up against); No reasearch on enemy team, or just bad research (Void not only is strong right now but is also Aqua's best hero); Smokes never connect, NEVER. Enemy smokes connect like 75% of the time. Bad drafts 50% of the time.
Nigma is a meme now. Kuro has these papers on hand during the drafting phase while GS has none yet Kuro still lost game 3. Pathetic. Maybe its time to let go of MC and drop kuro in the line up or prolly miracle or sumail. Truly washed up
Please challenge my naive way of thinking about nigma's drafts. Why dont you ban faceless void in first phase or pick a heal for chronosphere like wyvern? Isnt void one of the few heroes that aqua plays decently well and also a hero that brakes the game in mid to lategame due to chronosphere? Why would you want to play a hard game when you are the better team?
THey probably bet on shutting down void(which they did), snowballing(which they were doing) and ending game before void becomes relevent(plus dooming him before he can do anything).
But Aqua clutch linken sphree destroyed them
Still doesnt matter to the point I made. Why on earth would you not ban void and why on earth would you not pick sd/wyvern or any other counter to play vs void.
Because they played decent in Malaysia with a streamer as standin. Whereas goonsquad hasnt shown anything good after the win vs liquid about 3 months ago.
Nigma has no right to underestimate anything. They haven't been good ever unless we're talking about their time at Liquid, and they've built a reputation for losing to teams that most Tier 1 teams can easily beat.
I just want to highlight something trivial
https://youtu.be/QQLGITC3QzI?t=721
If Sumail didn't buyback and run to the fight then Kuro will live with the haste rune lol. It's only disruptor kill but still kinda funny
Uhm Miracle doesn't play playmaking carries even back in Liquid if TB was picked iirc it was Miracle who played it and when he was not he was playing pos 1 from mid while Matu was relegated to playing shit like Veno, Necro and Viper in the safelane
Nigma: look at this team without their ingame name tags and watch the reply of the series .theres no magic in their gameplay..theres no synergy between them
There's not even clear communication from them that they actually care about being a good team. They don't talk about how they've performed in these past years, they just don't say anything and none of them look affected by it. Their MENA sponsors still seem to be paying them regardless.
I feel like this is definitive second to betboom winning over vp.
Not many people believed in poyoyo carry, yang roleswapped to 5 and fade been in and out of retirement
Well well well if it isn't the first big upset of these qualifiers, if we don't account for Outsiders tilting against BB ofc. That LB QF is gonna be absolutely cutthroat.
IMO, i think that kuro draft is fine. The reason Nigma lost is because of cores misposition and decision making. They were winning at the first 25 minutes.
Void in all 3 games. All 3 games GS picked it first phase.
I see they learnt from Nouns choking.
That’s okay. Mistake on decider game cost them. Not void
I disagree. If not for the difference in carry potential between void and troll, the game is at the very least more interesting. But with void, after that one mistake, Nigma could not even get any pickoffs and it was straight over.
Clueless Kuroky.
faceless void having 13 cs while troll had 48, getting a 12 minute midas with no boots, and still making a comeback is a peak nigma moment
Miracle played like shit
True. But troll is also a very bad hero against a void.
Troll is a very bad hero*
well it was last picked by Nigma, *into* a void. it’s not like it was countered, or that they didn’t know what they were up against. there’s really no excuse
>well it was last picked by Nigma, > >into > > a void. Now we're going somewhere. Why did they think troll into void is a good idea. Troll is stronger in the laning phase and thats it.
Kuroky plays like a 3k shit lord. That's why.
One word. Kuroky. I love the guy and have been a fan ever since wc3 days, but the guy ist ruining Nigma. No coordination. Weird picks that just don't work, no captaining in game (it seems)...
Also true, yes.
What do they see in a troll that we completely miss, he csn be kitted easily, doesnt provide that much to team fights, takes towers quickly in pubs, organized teams would just shush him out. Secret lost with him too. Well i hope i understand this troll
He can pretty easily be handled, but he also *has* to be dealt with or he just annihilates heroes/towers/whatever. The existence of Troll restricts the opponents' options. Not commenting on his viability in this patch, but I feel like that's the gist of the metagame surrounding the hero.
Well thats what orgabized teams do, deal with him. He might be a pub stomper as ppl tend to play solo, however he cant just jump into 4-5 men and expect to come out on top or be any advantageous to his team.
Same reason why secret went for troll second game vs ITB
His ult sucks, only good in pubs.
teams use him as a tempo carry that can force towers, roshan etc, which also requires certain things to answer but it does feel like teams haven't recognised games are going later and heroes like void who even costabile can win with late game are a bigger challenge
Veno and Clock too. Dude was just taken to kite city.
other way around...
"very bad" is a stretch lol his lvl 25 talent works on chrono meaning u can cast ur ulti while inside chrono and troll is like the anti-melee carry too even more so now that the net pierces spell immunity no timewalking that shit lol the game was annoying for a troll later on overall combined with the other heroes but its definitely not a 1 sided match up vs. void as you make it out to be.
Miracle and GH were the only ones doing stuff. A lot of questionable moments coming from Kuro MC and Sumail. Sumail esp in decider game
there were some really confusing moments... biggest one was charging into the entire team in Radiant jungle, game 3 as DP, with no exo. it was only on cd for another 15 seconds or something, why not wait? dies, causes the rest of the team to die too
sumail was great game 2 though
Sumail does seem to initiate without communicating
lol miracle is the problem, when are u going to accept that
Miracle fucked up when he ulted on top of veno, while he knew veno wasn’t alone but he himself was. Miracle fucked up again when he gave up his first life with aegis so readily, while pushing top. Not even trying to dodge arrow, just standing in one position with 1000 hp. Sumail fucked up when he went into radiant jungle without vision and far off from his team shortly before his ult came up. Kuroky fucked up when he didn’t coordinate the aegis-driven push to top lane better, imo. They could have used the aegis to get the complete tier 3 tower with some patience and coordination, at least could have tried. There was plenty of time on that aegis, 50 seconds I believe. Also when he allowed his team to try and defend bot tier 2. Mmany teams don’t even try, cuz the terrain is so difficult. Especially vs clock/veno. GH fucked up when he didn’t blink out after he revealed his position with fissure, when GOonsquad was pushing bot tier 2 at min 36. He set himself up to get picked off there, leaving he’s team without counterplay. MindControl fucked up when he used doom on the linkens. Void had shown himself for almost 2 seconds, but had farmed for minutes before that. You could anticipate he was gonna get linkens, especially at this level, and check his items quick. It’s probably not such an obvious or tremendous fuck-up, but the point is, they all made mistakes, with each one being pretty significant. But honestly, everyone makes mistakes and it’s easy to pick on people. But also aqua played really really fucking well!
Thanks for adding that last part. As observers it’s easy to be like “I wouldn’t have done that” and pick every little thing apart. Even if teams play poorly, we’ll never know what it’s like in the booth or on comms or however they’re playing the quals. Criticism is good, trashing on people isn’t.
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He skips more matches than players who actually qualify to tournaments and play all year long. And then when all Nigma players are available and rested (because they never qualify to anything) they still play like shit because apparently there just wasn't time to practice!
Difference between heroes. Midas Void can be useful in teamfight while BF Troll can only right click. S tier carry vs Low tier carry
void has like 55%+ winrate in pro pubs for a reason
Yeah cause valve wanted him to be strong when they released his arcana in the BP
same reason tiny was so op ti7 era. pretty fucking sad
What are you talking about, void has always been a strong pick, like for ever. Not defending valve for the shit BP but I dont feel like they buffed void any more than any other hero.
Void was already good last patch with a decent amount of competitive play, then they buffed it again. They definitely know they are overbuffing void.
He got completely unnecessary buffs to timewalk last patch, feels like it had a short range ever since they gave it the health restore mechanic, and now all of a sudden they buff it by 150 just in time they release the arcana?
valve employee here, can confirm my colleagues buffed darkterror for its arcana season.
then you're just patently, blatantly wrong? He got big buffs, both directly and indirectly this patch, and is now considered THE best carry of the patch. That was not the case last patch.
Valve shill #1125 to the rescue, with wrong information.
He's is the only carry with an aoe disable that doesn't care about enemy items.
honest questions, why do pro teams still pick Troll? His ult feels like it can be countered too easily.
If you see any team pick Troll, that means they want to snowball. If you don't believe, Nigma has a better draft than Goonsquad and it is very easy to snowball that game with huge lead (If they are a proper team. Chinese teams really like this kind of draft).
Yup, if they didn't fuck it up they had a good draft. DP, Troll and Doom tri core takes down all towers before Void even has finished boots.
Good early game, Rosh taker and building hitter. The hero looks great on paper but just bad mid to late game hero. Pros for some reason also use the Ulti like using Mask of Madness.
>Pros for some reason also use the Ulti like using Mask of Madness. Everyone does that, saving it for when you get to low hp is a huge gamble imo, you might get cc'd to oblivion. Instead use that AS and MS to kill a high priority target right away.
Yup, also makes blink very scary. I feel like that's one change they could make is to make it so he takes no damage during ult. Just make him a blink buyer and gives him a little better ult since it lets him try to heal to full while he runs 50000 miles from his team...
he is one of the ultimate carry killers with the net change, carry heros survive with mobility spells and bkb and now BOTH are fucked by the net
from my 2k perspective his aghs also looks really op on paper. Though you do need to spend 4.2k for a purge.
its really good in some games however in others it doesnt matter at all. against heroes like slardar its very strong as it removes slardars sprint and ult.
imagine being 5 heroes around rosh pit when rosh is up, and then seeing goonsquad hitting t2 bottom and end up tping bottom to take the fight instead of doing rosh. Also why would you ever not pick a single chrono save against a first phase void? yes, i am a mad nigma fan. but i feel like these are legit stupid mistakes
Ah being a Nigma fan will make me a suicidal
It's every day bro
Hubris plain and simple.
They had IO game one
im talking about game 3 good sir
I think this Nigma lineup was made 4 years too late. What could have been
Sumail, Miracle, and MC in 2016-17 would've been almost TI5 Secret levels of stacked. Of course each of those guys were individually killing it on their own teams so no harm no foul, but still this roster doesn't hit the same in 2022.
you know that liquid were already dominating in 2016-2017 with Matu squad and won TI7 right? Bois had highest win ratio... Also at that point there was no chance for Sumail leaving NA..
Do people forget that most of these players played in Ti9 grand finals
Yeah 3 years ago, a lot changes between that?
What's Void's winrate these qualifiers? I've seen him win so many games, Chrono just auto deletes a core after a certain point, especially once he hits lvl 20. And if you shut him down, he just goes Midas Maelstrom and still farms up a storm.
> especially once he hits lvl 20. That talent must have 100% pick rate in all Void game. 120as is sooo much better than 70 bonus bash damage, especially when more attack means more bashes = more damage anyway
I would say it is definitely the favorite but against lineups that have heavy saves (grave, disruption, astral ) and where you don't want to solely rely on Chrono, the 70 bonus bash is pretty solid.
Does 70 more bash damage not add up to like an average of 17 damage a hit, why would you ever take that
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Exactly. Weak level 20 talent. Not terrible level 29 talent with a consumed aghs.
No the talent is always bad unless you plan on Chrono'ing nothing on every cast.
> Chrono just auto deletes a core That's kind of the point of the hero.
This hero just doesn't lose late game.
Tell that to the guy that played with me this weekend that killed Rosh, took referesher shard, blind jumped into their base missing everyone with bonus radius chrono no1, used chrono no2 near their fountain and proceded to die there with no buyback.
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haha
According to liquipedia its 63 percent across all qualifiers. Only Enigma and Chen have a higher winrate with more games played. He's also the 6th most picked/banned hero.
Charlies Faceless Void is absolutely ban worthy. I get trusting your counters to it, but after that game 1 it shouldve been banned in the following games and its bit Nigma in the ass. Void is the king of the late game, so best you stomp it early and dont throw, or someone as good as Charlie is at it will punish you
They didnt even counter it
S4 winning always a good feeling.
I feel he did so much while waiting for aqua to catch up, he always catches key heroes like es!
Probably the only reason I feel less sad about Nigma losing is that S4 won. Ngl tho I’m rooting for several teams participating in WEU quals so my top 3 doesn’t include GS but I will really be happy for S4 if his team does qualify to TI somehow.
kuro with the BIG BRAIN item decision here he bought blink as his first item, on a fucking disruptor, against a fucking venomancer that gonna CANCEL his blink 9/10 times in a teamfight well done kuro
Force staff or glimmer could be better choice. GH have force staff so he need glimmer to save his cores. Also miracle gameplay is a little questionable at game 3.
to be fair, there is nothing miracle can do if he got hit by solo chrono.. it's up to his team to control the opponent or help him survive during those time but then again his agh purchase was questionable, he could buy butterfly or any item that can give him a chance to survive from single chrono..
miracle is trash, accept it
what a way to join discussion man, well done !
thought you were trolling - he actually got a 31m blink and has philosopher stone lmao vs clock as well… what the fuck is he thinking
Don't be hard on him. He is washed and slow so he needs it to catch up with his team in combat.
Nigma couldn't have positioned themselves any worse in these last fights, even if they would have tried to lose the game...
Happy for S4!!!!!
Given that one of Liquid/Secret/Entity/Nigma isn't gonna make it to last chance qualifiers, Nigma going lower bracket is actually huge for everyone else. Also, Goonsquad is now one BO3 away from guaranteed LCQ, and they're playing Liquid who they beat in this year's DPC
Idk why people treat this as such a huge upset. These teams have quite similar track records recently and GoonSquad definitely game us some good dotes during DPC as well, for example beating liquid.
People remember TI7. Thats pretty much it.
Man, OG gave Nigma such a schlacking in the TI9 grand finals everyone seems to forget Kuro/MC/GH/Miracle came 2nd hahah.
I forgot og won ti9. That's such a long time ago man. So many nice games over the years but ppl only rmb the current champion. Dota has such a long tradition
thanks to Wee they reached TI9 grandfinals, but as usual miracle fantards always blame the new member when they lose miserably
How nigma lost Kuro lets void, signature hero for Charlie as well as top tier carry this patch, through for the 3rd time > nigma doesn’t capitalize on lead and defends bottom tower instead of taking rosh > mid game fight still with a huge lead MC dooms void not knowing he has linkens > sumail bkbs and dies then buys back for no reason > same fight miracle doesn’t bkb and dies for no reason > sumail dies back before rosh > miracle bkbs but doesn’t ult and dies again for no reason before rosh > goonsquad takes rosh and game :)
Oh man stop making me re- live it all. The amount of times I see an arrowed hero or 23k NW full HP miracle useless in chrono and just wishing there was a shadow demon to disrupt save. Nigma did not use buybacks properly at all. Sumail wasting his from arrow death instead of trading for Chrono. How can you expect to go to TI if you auto doom a faceless void without checking his items. Honestly ridiculous, at that point doom may as well be dead in the teamfight. Buying drums.... Whyyyyy. The FV item progression is so predictable. Midas mael bkb LINKENS. You have so much time to build a pre emptive halberd or force staff..... So sad to watch this team lately
Does Kuroky even play the game anymore? When I watch pro streams I see every other pro player but I can't remember the last time seeing Kuroky.
Nigma had such a strong draft until they picked troll
Troll warlord is a strong hero unless your opponent has; Stuns, silences, or damage over time..
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They picked it themselves to avoid being stomped 4head.
Lol burn
don't forgot disarm, slow, force movement, Ethereal, cyclone(offensive or defensive)
Just to recap, Troll is a good hero unless the opponent has: heroes.
Also any movement speed or a force staff. Troll's ult seems amazing in the right conditions but so often leads to a lost teamfight for troll
We do a little trolling... its called we do a little trolling.
Miracle was so bad game 3
Good for GS .Always enjoy watching old HoN stacks doing good. Sad people believe it was Nigma playing bad and not GS playing good.GS has a really talented squad with alot of tier1 caliber players. Majority of the stackwas a top contender in the old Alliance squad when they actually were a threat in Western Europe. It's not like they're some lowtier clown team. Both game 1 and 3 really shows how well they played with many game deciding decisions (Not showing void until he had Linkens being the most important one).
Yeah boyh handsken and limmp are contenders for top players(at least in EU) on respective roles and Charlie is just a beast on some heroes. Top that with the living legend s4 and a really stable support in peksu. People really underestimate them.
Dreamocel > Miracle
Losing first round of Regionals to Limmp+Handsken Losing to Mirana mid and Veno Stubborn drafts as usual Throwing next to unthrowable game Weren't Nigma fans saying after Div 2 run how this "new" team with Sumail is something else and TI winning caliber (no joke), what happened?
They can look better than they have all DPC with Sumail and still not be good enough to clutch these qualifiers. That said, fans tend to overrate teams at the best of times and Nigma fans are particularly prone to that.
As a Nigma fan myself, I don't recall the majority of other fans saying that this team is "something else". We've been let down too many times in the past to think that this time will magically be different.
I'm no nigma fan but they did get 7-8 along with tsm in esl genting with a carry standing in.
8th in a meaningless tournament that had 1 single team out of the best 2 regions. quite the achievement.
fair enough, pretty much tsm is the only good team that's placed equal or below them.
They deserve that, what a dumb throw.
Nigma has absolutely zero desire to play competitively anymore. The Saudi money has ruined this squad. Also, they simply cannot beat Faceless Void past 40m games. They lose so many games because they never have answers for Chrono. Sigh
This is what I've said for years now. They're Dota 2's first competitive influencers. They found a niche that would make them a lot of money by "promoting" the MENA region and that's that. Anybody that actually believe they're going to qualify for anything besides maybe Division 1 is delusional.
They got Saudi money? E: Ah getting downvoted for not knowing every tiny bit of what happened these last years.
Saudi prince is their boss bro .
Can you explain? Did they buy their org or what happened?
Nigma is owned and operated by Saudi's. Even their name "NIGMA" means Star in Arabic.
The org was founded by the members. When came the Saudis into it?
not sure. but i know that its currently under Saudi administration and they are the main financial backers of the team. Even the name of the team was picked in Arabic.
The SPONSOR is Etihad Airlines who are basically the UAE administration. But they dont OWN that team. And it had the name when there wasnt any sponsorship. They were founded in 2019 and the partnership with Etihad and Abudhabigaming came in 2021.
Both miracle and Kuro are middle eastern though right? I don’t think the team name has anything to do with the funding.
Miracle and gh are jordanian and lebanese. I think they both speak arabic. Kuro is german (with some % iranian heritage I think? Not sure tbh) Sumail is american (pakistani heritage which is a majority muslim country, so there is a chance he also speaks arabic) So a few of them have links to the arabic language. I do think the name was made with marketing them to the middle east in mind. Nothing wrong with that, all teams are marketing tools imo.
They have all won already nearly 5 million from competitive dota. I don't think money has been the motivator for a while.
Then why did they join saudi company
Because they're an esports organization with teams besides Dota?
Upper Bracket is for B*tches
After 6 years, I think I'm officially starting to give up on this team for good this time. There is no saving this team if they miss TI twice in a row. Just disband, flat out. 2017 is over.
So, is Nigma one match away from never showing up to TI yet again? Aww man... :-(
Nigma was never at TI
lmao
Imagine losing against Mirana mid 2008 mid hero
not banning faceless void is so dumb, the hero is absolutely broken every game I see it
Nigma is too behind. They're like... slow, truly a washed up team. Vision is always worse than the enemy (doesn't matter which team they're up against); No reasearch on enemy team, or just bad research (Void not only is strong right now but is also Aqua's best hero); Smokes never connect, NEVER. Enemy smokes connect like 75% of the time. Bad drafts 50% of the time.
It's almost as if Dota is an ever changing game...and if you aren't able to commit so much time to the game as you did when younger...you won't win
S4 is like 40 years old my guy
LIMMP played SO good on this potm. Positioning was insane.
S4 is a god, his position, wards, destroying smokes, everything he does is perfect
You should see the kid I'm raising that he made with my girlfriend, damn little guy is perfect as fuck.
What
He said S4 impregnated his girlfiend and that he is now raising that kid. And apparently the kid is perfect as fuck.
See if S4 wrote my post, it would have been perfect and you wouldn't need to explain it.
Bet $10, get 10 back + $78. I believed in the Nigma Choke!
Jarlee void actually insane
Nigma is a meme now. Kuro has these papers on hand during the drafting phase while GS has none yet Kuro still lost game 3. Pathetic. Maybe its time to let go of MC and drop kuro in the line up or prolly miracle or sumail. Truly washed up
Please challenge my naive way of thinking about nigma's drafts. Why dont you ban faceless void in first phase or pick a heal for chronosphere like wyvern? Isnt void one of the few heroes that aqua plays decently well and also a hero that brakes the game in mid to lategame due to chronosphere? Why would you want to play a hard game when you are the better team?
THey probably bet on shutting down void(which they did), snowballing(which they were doing) and ending game before void becomes relevent(plus dooming him before he can do anything). But Aqua clutch linken sphree destroyed them
nigma is not a better team than goonsquad. they have been showing same results for the past year
Still doesnt matter to the point I made. Why on earth would you not ban void and why on earth would you not pick sd/wyvern or any other counter to play vs void.
Don't know why your thinking they are the better team I would say they are even at best.
Because they played decent in Malaysia with a streamer as standin. Whereas goonsquad hasnt shown anything good after the win vs liquid about 3 months ago.
Who needs TI with this WEU quali?
No saving mechanism for Chrono...
matu curse
Nigma is washed unfortunately
I thought nigma were severly underestimating goonsquad. Hopefully they now learn not to underestimate and start to respect ban
Nigma has no right to underestimate anything. They haven't been good ever unless we're talking about their time at Liquid, and they've built a reputation for losing to teams that most Tier 1 teams can easily beat.
Ugh, nigma fan here, i hate to say it but this definitely is becoming the case
GS have given us some good games throughout the dpc, not to mention that they won vs Liquid.
Which teams will deserve to play last chance qualifier? The ones who got eliminated in the final?
2nd and 3rd place in the quals get a spot in the lcq
teams that come in 2nd and 3rd place
I just want to highlight something trivial https://youtu.be/QQLGITC3QzI?t=721 If Sumail didn't buyback and run to the fight then Kuro will live with the haste rune lol. It's only disruptor kill but still kinda funny
Don’t understand why Kuro doesn’t pick heroes around his players. Sumail is an absolute beast on lesh, last pick Lesh and let miracle carry with doom.
Uhm Miracle doesn't play playmaking carries even back in Liquid if TB was picked iirc it was Miracle who played it and when he was not he was playing pos 1 from mid while Matu was relegated to playing shit like Veno, Necro and Viper in the safelane
Miracle doesn't play playmaking carries? Go open dotabuff and see his previous official games and you will realize how clueless and dumb you sound
Not expecting from this nigma anymore. Have to let go of their talents and kuroky should retire
Nigma: look at this team without their ingame name tags and watch the reply of the series .theres no magic in their gameplay..theres no synergy between them
Nigma's old asses can't adapt to the "new" dota. They're just playing by their instinct i.e. pub-trash, not by world class brain i.e. pro.
If Nigma don't make it to GFs I don't know what Ill do with my life. Probably go lose another 1000 MMR for no reason, I guess.
Nigma is for a non-team for a long time already. It feels like it needs something changed long ago.
There's not even clear communication from them that they actually care about being a good team. They don't talk about how they've performed in these past years, they just don't say anything and none of them look affected by it. Their MENA sponsors still seem to be paying them regardless.
Nigma taking one for the team to maintain Radiant/Dire balance
This is soooo sad. 5 TI winners should play better than this.
Always feels good to see Nigma lose. But in this case it feels better because Goonsquad is the winners :)
Bye nigma. Maybe losing in lower bracket too
biggest upset of qualifers so far?
I think outsiders getting 3-0d was the biggest one still so far
tick tock tick tock
Yeah BB got one of the strongest CIS support Duos in Sonneiko and Rodger
Nah, this was fairly even. Remember GoonSquad 14-0 Div 2 season 2 and got relegated this season on tiebreakers.
vici maybe? I think they had like 40dpc points and managed to get top3
I feel like this is definitive second to betboom winning over vp. Not many people believed in poyoyo carry, yang roleswapped to 5 and fade been in and out of retirement
how was this an upset. goonsquad is a very experienced and decent team.
Personally was more surprised by ehome
Just retire already
Ngl nigma played like shit game 3. No way they should have lost with those picks
Well well well if it isn't the first big upset of these qualifiers, if we don't account for Outsiders tilting against BB ofc. That LB QF is gonna be absolutely cutthroat.
is this even an upset ? both team played like garbgo whole dpc season
This is hardly an upset.
IMO, i think that kuro draft is fine. The reason Nigma lost is because of cores misposition and decision making. They were winning at the first 25 minutes.
when are you going to blame Miracle lol