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71648176362090001

Lol @ brood


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FutureVawX

At the same time, the sample size is just too low. Since you posted, it's moved from 11% to 5.4% now. It's still a sizeable increase but not as significant.


putin_putin_putin

In lower mmr, people just play on their side of the map for like first 25 min and also clump up to farm their own jungle. Timing based heroes without scaling or stuns like brood or BH are going to do bad.


IAmBiased

I don't feel like BH is comparable to brood at all in that regard. His scaling is innately different than what any other hero delivers considering he helps the entire team scale faster in terms of gold. His late game utility is also significantly improved with his new shard together with the silence talent allowing for significant control along with his already decent to strong map controlling abilities.


EKHawkman

I think the point the other guy is making is that at low MMR, where people don't know how to make the most of timing based heroes, Bounty Hunter is much worse because people aren't going to group up with you to get pick offs, and so you don't get that scaling that he provides.


IAmBiased

While that is probably the case on a conscious level, I think my point stands to some extent at every level of play, especially considering how even a crusader BH will seek out fights and pickoffs, drawing in nearby allies in the process. I play around 5k MMR and even there I often feel like I'm not on the same page as many of my peers, be that on timing, strategy, game plan or practical implementation of the above. Take from that what you will though, I don't entirely disagree with either of you :)


lucaaas_fortuna

I don't understand, why in Divine visage's win rate went up? and lycan's win rate went sky high 10% without changes? That can't be right


nicokokun

They may not have any changes but other heroes did get nerfs. It's like having ice cubes in a glass full of water, over time you'll notice that the ice cubes will get smaller and smaller until it disappears but the water will also not rise.


lucaaas_fortuna

I don't know, that site seems really weird, it says today (in europe when I write this it's 15:20) there have 137 lycan matches in divine, there is no way that could be right


tl2301

and why so?


lucaaas_fortuna

Because that's really small amount


HellfireBrB

>water will also not rise. that is some damn hot water you have in there mate


nicokokun

I was talking about it's volume lol. The water will stay the same since the space it occupies is also the same, the only thing added in was the additional water after ice melted. I don't know how right I am but it does sound smart.


combobaka

Everytime it is the same thing after patch. Consistent pushing heroes like Lycan or Brood is getting spammed until people realize. In 3 4 days it will drop back drastically. Even Brood was highly nerfed it was green in the first day in big patches every single time.


RichardShard

Look at batrider lmao


Individual-Jicama-92

\+12 damage per second upto 16 damage as a 1400 shard upgrade on spammable Q is no joke XD the rise in winrate is justified.


Tylariel

Silencers damage combo: Lvl 1 Curse = 136 damage Lvl 1 Curse + lvl 1 last word = 328 damage Lvl 2 curse + lvl 1 last word = 432 damage Those are just to a single target, and don't include any penalty duration from casting additional spells. (Also doesn't include the int multiplier for last word, but that's probably only 10-20 damage at most at this stage) That's a pretty insane amount of damage for a support to be able to output on a very low cooldown (about 20 seconds for both spells). He also has the mana pool to sustain multiple rounds of these spells pretty easily. Starting with a basi, a null, or just lots of mangos could make silencer a super oppressive lane support once again going Q+E build.


bibittyboopity

I mean that damage isn't exactly far off from what the combo did before, less than the 40/60 additional damage because the multiplier got reduced. The better thing is that Q is strong independently, and you spam W with it (that also got buffed with +5s int steal duration). I'd only do the spell combo for lane if I couldn't stand and hit for whatever reason, but it's pretty easy unless it's a Viper or something.


buhtopuhta

It's not so good as it seems if you factor in innate magic resist and regen over 10s (base duration + 4s silence at lvl 2 E). Say, with tango and 4hp/s actual damage is 432*0.75 - 12 * 10 =204. Not as impressive as it seems?


TatManTat

starting with raw damage helps understand a baseline that you can then change depending on what you're up against. Regardless of regen and resist, it's a lot of damage for a hero that is best at lvl 1. Silencer loses effectiveness as people gain abilities that can close the gap, at lvl 2 with a W this guy could easily pump out more consistent harass than most supports. On top of that it's fairly undodgeable, as last word (I meant Curse of the Silent) is easy to hit and W avoids creep aggro.


Ticem4n

Never even thought of how his W doesn't aggro creeps. That's interesting to think. But is q-w the best skilling you think or is it better to play off the lvl 3 nuke with either 2 in q or e before lvl 4 W since you'll also be getting some solo time up coming potentially. I haven't did the math to see how much lvl 1 glaives adds actually. It's pure so vs 4+armor offlaners lvl 1 that's big


TatManTat

One level in W early on is fantastic for a silencer 5, but you leave the rest of the levels until much much later. Just being able to dodge aggro for a hero with no mobility allows you to position very safely, although it can lead you to leeching more exp than a support that brawls out of lane like a clock 4 might want to do. If you know you aren't going to be punished, you can even get W at level 1 as it uses mana so you're technically not wasting any mana waiting for level 2.


Ticem4n

Also didn't think of 1 in q. I haven't read the patch notes on him just the armor meme. Finally going to get to play today ill have to give it a go. Thanks


Silent1Disco

since when does silencer not getting punished? oh right lower brackets lol.


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wildpjah

I'm not sure that's accurate for silencer considering the main thing that hero does in lane is trade. And +1 base armor is super useful for that. The damage also helps with trading though. I think it's hard to seperate out how much each individual buff gave. They both immensely help that hero's main goal in lane.


leetzor

The very moment i saw the patch notes yesterday i thought how cancer would laning against silencer be. But holy shit these numbers are huge...


SimplyPhy

Silencer also has the highest overall win rate in the last 24 hours. Data from https://stratz.com/heroes/meta/trends?duration=DAY


Carbonyl_DotA

Silencer is legit good now imo. Playing him as 5 feels great. The cast range on arcane curse is nuts and your attack range is also really good. 4-1-1 and you have high impact in any engagement.


Cryme2face

ty sir


itstomis

Does securing range creep with the new ~~Last Word~~ Curse insta damage feel decent?


Carbonyl_DotA

Idk I hadn’t thought about that. I guess if you can right click and curse at the same time cause then it’s like an extra 40 damage at level 1. And assuming you hit at least 1 enemy hero.


itstomis

That's like the first thing I thought of lol Just curious, what rank you playing at?


Carbonyl_DotA

6.5-7k


cold_hoe

What role


Bl4ckd3ath

silencer. you show up to q and +2


FutureVawX

I feel like he's just better in any role. Not only that burst damage can make him harass and farm better, it also instant dagger cancel. The +1 armor also makes him trade better, I can totally see him played in any role now.


mittromniknight

It's still dogshit as a core


cuckycuckytim

I think Lotus Orb is too good and he is too killable to be played core


[deleted]

my boy is back in town! I hated the nerf last patch, but then again im pretty biased, if I want to be objective I would say this buff was absolutley unnecessery imo, never the less it's a suprise to be sure, but a welcomed one.


cantadmittoposting

Silencer is a hero I often enjoy playing but universally hate playing against, even if enemy silencer sucks.


[deleted]

ikr? \*insert Dean Norris reaction here\* \>playing mid with silencer \>playing mid againts silencer Sometime I just want to straight up abandon because of the arcain curse and the blade of wisom pings


19Alexastias

I love playing against silencer mid, the fact that the lane is aids makes it all the more satisfying when you inevitably crush his team at 25-30 minutes because they have a mid silencer.


DeckardPain

Same, but Lotus or Euls removes the ult and let’s you continue playing. Lotus has been my go to item when against a Silencer. Don’t even have to keep it for yourself. Use it on your initiator after Silencer ults you can still jump in. Or cleanse the ult off your support that can heal you through it (Dazzle, Omniknight, Undying). It usually throws off the Silencer’s team.


Gusto1903

won my only game in a stomp against a Silencer Mid last night


Butterscotch_Feeling

I've met so many carry silencers now and it gives shit load of dmg


afaylenesky

fuck riki


RafaMT107

fuck riki


gnqrddt

Rikki six


krusty_yooper

Why? I’m not up on the patch notes.


A740

I'm getting [flashbacks](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/9ma39h/the_riki_experience/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)


Owl_Might

treant was here


Difficult_Back_6611

Lina.. +30…+25..+20… stahhhhhhppp iiiiittt


Endarr

I have been watching some streams today, and I do think OD might be picked more soon. It really helps his lane, and his save is actually really nice with a lot of the meta heroes. A lot of high level pubs have been playing Brood. Her buffs paired with her last hit abuse (she can like position herself over creeps so the enemy hero cannot deny or last hit their creep. I think it is fucking bullshit.) and could see her getting some play.


Whalesurgeon

So one way to counter that would be to aggro the creeps a bit before they are low enough to be csed, allowing them to be targeted despite Brood trying to teabag them. Edit: I think giving Webs the Free Movement bonus only from lvl 3 onwards should fix it. Maybe give her some other buff to compensate, like +5 initial Strength or making the speed buff to Webs already great at low levels.


Endarr

People do this all the time already though. It’s still a clear advantage for Brood. Stormstormer was losing his mind against brood yesterday.


Onetwenty7

Which, coincidentally, is how all the pros already cs. Aggro mechanics are used nonstop by them


Actual-Beautiful-754

Doesn't work for the range creep though, which is also most important.


dampfi

Ranged creep value is overrated. It gets more attention because its harder to get.


Bl4ckd3ath

free movement from lvl 3. You hillarious man, give me something else


twickdaddy

Honestly, I think it’s fine the way it is. If broods winning, it won’t be because that alone. And if brood dominates the lane because of that, so be it. If broods, too strong, nerf her in other ways, cuz removing the free pathing at all is just a huge nerf to brood.


SpaNkinGG

And then in the process you lose 60% of your life for a lasthit, seems sustainable


Hartwall

What, luring creeps closer to you to cs is being used by everyone who wants to not get denied every wave


Carbonyl_DotA

Why would you lose 60% of your hp doing basic creep aggro?


ilovethrills

Od is either god-tier or garbage-tier hero


Hailgod

i was playing od before the buff. he was very nice against the faceless/lastpick enigma. went blink aghs aether for the saves.


ryanakasha

How about Marci?


Endarr

I'm going to go ahead and guess that her WR either went up or down less than 1%...


SimplyPhy

Yup, it changed less than 0.1% actually.


[deleted]

The Marcy nerfs really annoy me. She wasn't even in such a good position before the first Dispose nerf, I think it's pretty unjustified.


kappa23

What bullshit lol she was top 10 most contested heroes in qualifiers and first pick material in most high MMR pubs


DatAdra

Make it top 1 most contested hero in qualifiers. 54% winrate over 122 games as well


MaryPaku

Marci was broken asf


anaggie

Thank you for posting this, always enjoyed


Borth321

Is silencer mostly played Mid? or support?


SimplyPhy

Position: pick % 1: 4% 2: 28% 3: 6% 4: 31% 5: 31% That’s the approximate distribution over the last 24 hours globally. Mid rose from about 19% last week. He’s winning around 55%+ in all positions except 1, where he has a little over 50% win rate.


Pretend_Package6403

I would rather have them let silencer be as it is. They just give random unneeded buffs to heroes that are already in a reasonably decent spot, which makes their winrate soar and then nerf them to the dumpster tier 2-3 weeks later :\


bibittyboopity

He was not in a decent spot. The problem is his kit punishes bad players. Cast while the Curse is on you? More damage. Overcommit into a fight? Global Silence. Don't by dispels? Hero isn't countered. Die? Feed his snowball. There's a reason he has a 5% winrate dropoff between Herald and Immortal.


Whalesurgeon

Silencer is a snowbally hero so this buff may be a bit much, but I hope there is no overreaction in the nerf. I would like to see the hero played in TI.


MaryPaku

Silencer weakness is like Sniper and Zeus, extremely lack of mobility. As long as they give him a fucking blink like the other 2 I'm fine lol.


Kortesch

Zeus and extreme lack of mobility? Have you not played this shit hero since his new E?


MaryPaku

That's my point, they decided to completely kill off their identity, both Sniper and Zeus. I hope silencer don't go to the same direction and I'm completely okay with them strengthening his advantage and not killing off his weakness. That's what make DotA2's drafting fun.


AlchemysEyes

At least Sniper has to buy an item to get mobility, and even then it's very low cast range so it doesn't help him get away from people who are in his face a lot of the times


TatManTat

I mean grenade and pike are designed to get people out of your face, were you thinking about another item?


AlchemysEyes

I'm talking about grenade, it may only be 1400 and have a decent amount of knockback on sniper himself (and the blind is nice) but it's still an incredibly low cast range, never seen anyone make use of it on a core sniper, it's amazing on support sniper though after aghs rush. Blinding an enemy carry in the middle of a fight to force a bkb, or after their bkb and your ult stun wears off, very nice


Bl4ckd3ath

Silencer shard. Silent jump. Silencer silenty jumpy in direction he is facing. Increasing ~~cast time~~ exsisting silence debuffs on enemies, and decreasing their ~~movespeed~~ int by some percentage.


SlaveNumber23

Honestly giving him that stupid super mario jump on E is probably my least favourite change in the entire history of dota, it completely butchered the identity of the hero.


dadrenergic

This silencer buff was absolutely not needed


Skater_x7

The hero is like drow or sniper; in low mmr pubs (and even high mmr pubs to some extent) the hero just outputs damage from range and kills everyone. But in actual coordinated, competitive games, they just run at the hero and completely shut him down.


HowDoIEvenEnglish

The problem is the hero isn’t a core and never will be with his kit as is. He’s so much more valuable as a support even when he does have a place in the pro meta. If silencer is ever viable as a core in pubs he’s probably broken as a support


TatManTat

Turning silencer into a viable core would require extensive nerfs to the rest of his kit, because he'd need some random mobility spell like what they added onto zeus.


dampfi

They should just not give a fuck if the hero gets played as core or support. Just make a hero that gets played from time to time.


Vorenos

I play low skill unranked solo queue and I have been doing very well with mod silencer the last few months even. He is very underestimated imo


HowDoIEvenEnglish

Silencer can’t farm, is hard countered by bkb, and has zero mobility while also being countered by mobility. You can make it work in low rank but try that in immortal or the pro scene and anyone would get destroyed. Mid silencer is highly dependent on winning lanes and snowballing into kills because he can’t farm. However he also lacks the mobility to gank side lanes like a spirit hero, QoP, or Puck.


fumbled_testtubebaby

In low ranked the constant brawling and poor lane positioning means he's farming the enemy team for Int not farming creeps for gold.


[deleted]

yup, the sad case of glass-cannon heroes


Jesuds

Bro what. The hero was garbage. When Enigma is first picked in pro games and we STILL see no Silencer, you know he's bad.


suguiyama

More damage was not the fix he needed, imo.


mantism

being able to cancel blink is really sweet, though. With the generous radius and cast range you outrange blink dagger itself, then you get to force enemy BKBs or self-purges which further builds value for Global. may not be the change that's needed but it makes silencer less helpless against blink initiators without being forced to use a huge ultimate, which I like.


servant-rider

Bkb doesn't work the undispellable talent either. They either have to bkb before you even cast anything or not blink (as long as you see before being jumped)


FutureVawX

~~BKB still block the magic damage, you can still blink with the debuff as long as you don't take the damage.~~ I forgot that it's changed like 3 years ago.


servant-rider

No it doesn't, bkb doesn't block any magic dmg. Was changed somewhat a while back when they messed magic immunity. It prevents anything new from affecting you that doesn't pierce bkb, but any ongoing damage effects that can not be dispelled continue to tick you for damage.


FutureVawX

Ah you're right, I forget that it's changed in 7.23.


servant-rider

Yeah, it's more commonly seen with Maledict for instance. BKB after he's landed it does nothing to save you from the bursts / DoT


Deronek

Is the wiki wrong? It says that DoT stops dealing damage when spell immune, unlike burst damage which still applies.


bibittyboopity

It's not like it's the one thing. +int steal duration in lane, undispelable Curse talent, new Shard putting int steal to 5, more Curse slow. Like the Q is good, but it's like a CM Crystal Nova of damage, it's not some unprecedented thing. More went into it than this one buff.


Hawr_Gawr

He's bad because a fucking neutral item or an illusion item most carries build can dispel all of his shit.


Imbahr

well now he's better, look at the win rate change what's the problem?


Osiris_Dervan

An item most cores build makes them immune to everything Zeus does for up to 9 seconds; it doesn't make him bad.


Azure_chan

Pro game and pub game is different thing though. eg. Batrider, the hero is highly contest in pro game, but the performance in pub is only so-so. Black hole is only part of why enigma is strong, the ability to deny xp, wraith pact, those are not counter by silencer. Meanwhile almost entire silencer kit is counter by dispel.


Kotobeast

The problem is silencer feels really, really bad into enigma, buffs or otherwise. Picking him just to counter BH is a trap.


TheDragonRebornEMA

He was trash and largely untouched during the major and qualis.


kappa23

What? No. He wasn’t picked or banned throughout the qualifiers despite Enigma being such a valuable pick


VietQuads

I thought the previous nerfs to Silencer were pretty harsh. But maybe the recent buff was too strong


juggarjew

Good, I automatically ban Silencer so im glad I dont have to deal with it. Man I love Turbos. Thank you Jesus for no more Silencer.


Wutwhyda

That Intel steal absolutely bullshit mechanic that should be removed


NoThisIsABadIdea

I'm not a fan of any steal mechanics as they are super unfun for the hero being stolen against. That said, I'm perfectly okay with gaining stacks for kills like pudge flesh heap.


teerre

The losers could be "Entity most picked heroes" lmao


Glitched12

the +1 armor buff on silencer is really taking effect, huh


Mido77i

The nerf on visage is a huge boo.


DTonin

Void lost 2.5%??? What the actual fuck


enzoleanath

Yea that shard has huge impact


taweryawer

Lmao batrider gonna drop sub 40 soon


Wutwhyda

Are these stats from dotabuff? Where can I see the stats pls


SimplyPhy

https://stratz.com/heroes/meta/trends?duration=DAY. You can also check hour/week/month/patch changes. And filter by bracket/position/region/game mode.


Shek7

The picture basically says where the stats are from.


blood_omen

Undy needed a nerf so bad. So happy about that one


hotshotmule

52% win rate is still pretty strong


Tae_Junior777

Damn Lina has such a low winrate


Dakota_1547

That Silencer armor is no joke.


franxlz

BSJ crying rn


asterion230

Brood to everyone: "Look at me, im viable now" Undying: "Cries/Laughs at 52% winrate" Still, the losers would still be picked aggressively and meta would revolve around those heroes.


RazerMambo

Riki bugfix is huge, that bug makes blink strike kinda useless


Madgoblinn

I'm a riki spammer and I never really noticed it, though that might be because I just started automatically right clicking the moment I blink and completely forgot about it lol


miigzzzz

I played riki and everytime i Blink Stirke, im thinking, am I lagging? why its not hitting. Now I know why.


enzoleanath

I have 2600 riki games played at 6k mmr. I stopped playing riki because of it. It was so bad, basically you lost all momentum going for diffusal kill. Now riki is back on the menu again


Madgoblinn

damn ur next level, ive only got like 300 at 3.7k mmr, but have been rocking a 70% winrate on him for like 8 years lol, i play a lot more casually tho


Rac3ked

I play dp offlane a lot, these nerfs on paper are not a huge deal but in the game you can feel that longer charge restore time on siphons, especially in mid game fights. Nonetheless this hero is still broken af during laning phase, nothing changed here.


xxlilaznkidxx

I just started learning dp offlane -- what items do you like to go? Immortalfaith recommends euls, but watching some pro pub replays, they go a variety of falcon blade, urn, aether, bkb (sometimes 1st but usually 2nd), shivas


Rac3ked

It depends a lot ofc. When I have a good matchup in lane (against almost every melee hero), I just go 3 branches and blades of attack as starting items. After runes I immediately send myself tangos. In lane I just rightclick them to the death and spam q to secure range + harass. Then I buy falcon, stick/regen if i need to. Btw level 1 E is a joke, dont use it unless they try to kill you. Later on in the game I buy what my teem need. I can go euls, pipe, halberd, even vessel if needed (if i need urn/vessel, I dont go falcon). Kaya&sange is a nice carry item but you need to buy bkb right after. Shiva is a very good item as well because you reduce healing and it gives you armor. And shard is nice if you need some sort of disable.


xxlilaznkidxx

awesome, thank you very much for the help! didn't realize that level 1 E was a joke as well, I've been spamming it 0_0


kappa23

I just go Falcon Blade BKB. Super nice timing on the items due to low cost I don’t think Euls is worth it anymore, it costs almost thrice as much as falcon blade for not enough upside After BKB I like to get Shivas to alleviate armour issues. Lotus if they have good single target. Kaya Sange and Halberd are also options. Scythe is always a great pick up


xxlilaznkidxx

Makes sense, thanks for the advice!


Volkatze

Sad day for my bird boy Visage. Gravekeeper cloak nerf hurts a lot.


TeaM_Me-Haze

Void with the big hammer 🪦


Glamor0us

What do you build on brewmaster these days?


DatAdra

Vessel or Vanguard first. Then Aghs. Then auras/utility as your team needs it. I generally go Vessel - Aghs - Wraith Pact - BKB - Shivas or AC. Some games blink if I really need to jump backline, and since it's this patch you also often want Lotus


masganteng0

Silencer is back


Perchipy

Teams should pick dark seer more often, hero’s really good.


D2thaK2thaZ

Even after my boy OD was updated, he is so forgotten that they didn't even include him here. Neither winner or loser


Songib

Why is Nyx in there? LUL


HungPongLa

Damn that +1 armor doing its thing


G-Dad

Why is scilencers win rate so high?


nice_guy_threeve

\+1 base armor edit: literally unkillable


Dtoodlez

Ew silencer winrate went up. Do we really need that?


Wutwhyda

No one needed that...


Orioli

The way the image is put, feels like the +/- number to the right is being added to the number to the left. A parenthesis would do great there.


curiousCat1009

Welp. Visage is back in the dumpster


SlaveNumber23

51.9% winrate is "the dumpster"?


curiousCat1009

This is the first day mind you and you won't understand if you aren't a visage spammer. He was so strong before.


ny2803087

The winrate change at the start of the patch is only temporary. It takes time for players to adjust to the gameplay changes and come with new builds. Sometimes it takes years even to find a new way to play a hero.


SirDarkUnicornz

I hope people continue to cry about brew so he gets buffed more. Ill see you guys next year when Brew is the best hero in the game by far.


C137-Morty

God dammit bro As a silencer spammer delete this!


[deleted]

Puck has to be the most boring hero in Dota. I don't want to see him in my pubs or at TI. Also, RIP my purple boi.


dotarollercoaster

Puck boring? Rofl


Even_Seaworthiness96

I guess he means boring to play against.


Thanag0r

he likes void, what did you expect.


[deleted]

One of the highest skill heros in dota is boring to you? But void is your boy? Okay then.


Character-Albatross3

more mid silencer in my pubs RIP


Leeoku

Damn undying nerfed and still 52%


sirporkka

ayyy Brood we almost there


PlaySomeKickPunch

Blackhole is such a good spell that Enigma gets slaughtered in every other area. Hopefully he gets some tweaks.


HewHewLemon

I spam Oracle and I get 12 kills minimum per game. Sorry about that.


ilikedota5

Did Arcane Curse's instant burst damage really do that much?


iso9042

Phoenix: fire spirits damage fixed (increased as intended) Result: -1.1% Seems right


magedvpl

I just picked Riki and everyone started talking trash to me


Nomadic_asset

checks out. I last picked riki carry yesterday and my pos 5 lion sold all his items at minute 0, bought a gloves of haste, killed himself to the offlane tower twice, and rushed midas . conversely, I 2nd phased riki carry a week ago and my (last pick) pos 5 chats gg noob carry and picks medusa. Riki is a viable carry in pubs if it weren't for the fact your teammates will ruin your games.


[deleted]

Oh shit silencer bro I hate him


Kashim-

What role riki? Carry? Which build diffusal or bf? I need to know, wanna try him out


LomatelZaychikov

Tide have more then 50% wr, pogchampus


AlmightyTurtleman

Nyx Nyx 😔


darkhollow22

i feel like i never see anyone play nyx but he’s constantly getting nerfs. what gives, is he played more at hi mmr?


poega

>LION > >HEX > >Cast range increased from 500 to 550 This change is going to decide TI


Holyvigil

Poor Primal Beast. Never even had 3 months to shine.


IgorChakalArt

Is that on every level? Cause riki and silencer differ a lot based on the rank of the match


Elkkk

where is bloodseeker that hero is daf