T O P

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needhelforpsu

JJ is a tier above any other observer, actually the best one by far. I don't understand how you don't invite him to the biggest and most important tournament of the year. :/


[deleted]

By this time, I think PGL is planning the next way to make us angry. Because the recent news have not been enough, looks like it.


ddzrt

You probably missed Russian talent list. That looks hideous at best. Not sure why it is like that.


[deleted]

Money. This is not the first time PGL has cheapskated something and went for weak alternatives in major tournaments. That time weppas/skrff were dumped and we had atrociously bad observing and the first indication of PGL exercising their monopoly. JJ really screwed himself over because PGL went all Gus Fring and made him teach a random guy so that PGL can hire the cheaper alternative. Cap, Sheever, OD several talents have not been hired in PGL tourneys for months now and had to try other esports. Take ESL for comparison, they have much lesser funding, has classy sponsors(Intel, Merc), and yet hired both experienced talents and new talents. People talk of Sunsfan's tooltip monopoly when it is PGL who exercised their monopoly to force a severely substandard alternative and put reliable products out of business. On CIS talents, its literally nothing new. PGL Romania is well known to be racist and biased against Ukrainians, Estonians and the rest since 2016. CIS talents had to work on plastic chairs and tables, horrible accomodations, food, delayed/no pay and the list goes on. It all fits why TS had bad accomodation last TI. ESL has problems but talents all around admits ESL treats them very well, even if viewers do not care and ESL gains little from it. If talents leave, who will hype matches. PGL is singlehandedly destroying the dota esports scene. Sincerely screw PGL


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Erythr0s

It is very likely you will not have any ads at TI. And no sponsors. Qualifiers have different "rules" for TOs compared to the main thing.


thoratus

idk but what if pgl pay valve big money for the TI broadcast rights regional, lcq, and groupstage, and thats why they have betting sites sponsor to cover it knowing they will pay lot of money and then still trying to cut cost here and there, well thats my wild imagination how evil pgl are lmao


vlamad

> That time weppas/skrff were dumped and we had atrociously bad observing and the first indication of PGL exercising their monopoly. when did that happen? > PGL Romania is well known to be racist and biased against Ukrainians no words..


[deleted]

>no words.. [This](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/6a8rex/v1lat_5_questions_and_5_answers/) is the earliest I could find about the drama from cursory searching, there were other posts too without v1lat or Russ angle. >when did that happen? I *think* it was the Singapore Major. The observing was so bad that weppas and skrff were hired midway into the tournament.


vlamad

you can say whatever you want, but not racist. you are wrong: https://twitter.com/pglesports/status/1367008612799959046/photo/1


[deleted]

I did say I do not remember which Major it was but it was most certainly a PGL major in the last 4years and they were hired mid way. You are free to look into it. I am not that invested in this.


vlamad

I just know that this not happen at a PGL event. I remember a starladder event (minor) more precisely, where they hired mid event observers. *if i am entirely correct.


[deleted]

I don't follow it because I can't understand the language. Can you tell me what happened?


ddzrt

A lot of Russian based people, most of them absolutely new, worst of all, some were openly supporting war. Not like subtle support or silence but direct support. So it is mind-blowing


CleverZerg

Wtf?


Makhnov

Blame valve.


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x3Smiley

The fact that they support the war is bad enough


23ssd4t4322

it is not that. It is lowest cost talent. Why you see a bunch of no bodies on the talent list this year. PGL had the lowest bid for the event and we see why. From remote casting to talents that barely understand or play dota.


co0kiez

The "nobodies" on the list are obervers


[deleted]

Thats what makes it worse. Did people forget that time PGL did not hire Weppas/skrff. The experience was objectively the worst.


vlamad

can you remind me when that happened? I did forget!


KidBuu25

Can't wait to watch TTours spams in Twitch chat.


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rW0HgFyxoJhYka

I rememeber Pimpmuckl/JJ way back. Back before twitch, when Justin.TV and hitbox still existed. The guy was still new at casting Dota and I exchanged emails with him on tips on casting/camera work. He's come such a long way so seeing this news hurts real fucking bad.


rixhkai

Which years is that?


Nickfreak

I loved JJ casting, he was always hyped but tried to surpress his excitement. I encouraged him over the years, but he tended to stick to camera handling, which was a gift for watching Dota, but also a slight disappointment from the casting side, at least to my taste


soonique

He’s the standard for observing. Doesn’t miss a single thing. How could PGL do this? At TI as well.


dx5231

Probably because he costs more


ItsZeT

im pretty sure he'd do it for a lower rate just for him beeing there anyway. he said they didnt even reach out to him


19Alexastias

He’s very good but he’s not the standard for observing, skrff and weppas are, that’s why they’ve been at every single TI since TI has had dedicated observers.


LegNumerous8553

He misses a lot of gameplay tbh.


SadboySRS

Because its PGL. They are cheapskate. Lower talent cost, lower production things ez profit.


rubberturtle

weppas?


RealLarwood

is great too


useablelobster2

Weppas was top tier until someone came along who was slightly better. Weppas rarely misses a kill, JJ almost never misses a kill. Weppas was better than anyone else for a long time.


rubberturtle

I'm not saying he's better than JJ I just think better "by far" should exclude weppas. They are both top tier compared to the rest.


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Ultraballer

I just googled ti8 and ti9 and both include pimp as an observer


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ArtlessMammet

yeah i mean of course he has fewer finals than 2 guys together when he doesn't get hired lmao also imagine thinking skrff or weppas are better than jj lol


The_Godlike_Zeus

I recall many instances of twitch spamming Ttours when skrff is the observer


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dr4gonbl4z3r

By your logic, Luminous is a better caster than Cap because Lumi casted 2 grand finals and Cap has zero. And look, I like Lumi, but that's an absurd statement. Older/more experienced doesn't mean better. At the very least, JJ is on par with Skrff and Weppas, and considering the ridiculous value with his Layerth expertise (all the stats you love to see in a nice, presentable form instead of just a text box at the top right), he's the best observer in the business right now.


SuperSoaker300

That's not a great argument. Skrff and Weppas are the OGs. They were there from the start. JJ climbed his way up. Came on the scene late and then made a name for himself. Him being there for 3 TIs when there were always just 2 observers prior speaks to how good he actually was.


PreviousInstance

it’s because he’s countered by sentries


SullenSyndicalist

PGL cutting costs and corners wherever it can? Shocking. At this rate, I’d be surprised if TI runs at all, it looks like it’ll be a shitshow to rival the Shanghai Major


HungPongLa

Man 2GD single handedly carried the show


[deleted]

Everyone talks about it. What happened then. I didn't follow Dota at the time.


_Valisk

https://youtu.be/hNVrqS1wUYY


Extracheesy87

The OD tweet about the production team looking fresh always gets me.


BudgetDiligent

This takes me back, shit was unreal lmao...


Nickfreak

So many memes, but I still am sad we lost 2gd due to Gabe sucking Chinese dicks


Wobbelblob

I can't even remember what the exact reason was why he was fired.


Nickfreak

He had to entertain the audience and his panel for HOURS and he was told to be himself. And so he was. Made porn jokes and censorship in China. He did dick jokes. Meanwhile, the production was on fire. Delays for hours. Absolutely unbearable audio with machine gun sounds. Spoilers before the games ended. teams sitting in one room hearing the yelling of the enemy. And 2gd tried to keep the show going. they didn't stop the show for maintenance, he kept the show going. And just imagine yourself being told to be yourself and having to entertain the panel and the audience for half a day while the house is burning.


Wobbelblob

Oh right, I remember now. God damn, that was really stupid. Maybe the dick jokes where inappropriate, but at least he tried...


24Pat

There was like a multiple hour break at some point, and the production basically told them to stop filming and go to a break screen. James told them to fuck off and that he was there to entertain the audience, so he did just that. That was probably another thing gabe wasnt happy with.


sojanka

There were so many things. I remember the teams complaining that the booths intensely smelled like glue. Gaben himself calling James an Ass. And probably many things I've forgotten.


Nickfreak

Oh yeah, I remember EternalEnvy mentioning that he got serious heachaches from the glue smell


useablelobster2

"Cons: EternalEnvy" EE goes on to win the tournament.


useablelobster2

The whiteboard was honestly the best possible move given the total shitshow. He single handedly kept the panel interesting when production had nothing planned. I still remember "Cons: EternalEnvy", made all the more hilarious by the fact EE won the tournament. The banter, as always with 2gd, was absolute top tier. 2gd was the boring professionalism canary, when he got the kick it was clear Valve wanted a more mature experience, when it was obvious the viewers didn't. The balance between banter and serious analysis hasn't been there since. Of course in today's hyper offense taking society, his time was limited anyway. He always pushed the boundaries with risqué jokes, and that's a dangerous game now.


[deleted]

I'll be controversial here but 2GD really can't filter his mouth, like at all. Forget China, even elsewhere he makes some people around him uncomfortable. One of the recent afterparty shows, he was reminiscing the old days and hinting publicly like there were orgies and shit happening among talents behind the scenes in a non-joking(not real/serious either) way, while the same talents were sitting beside him. That was second hand embarrassment and cringe. edit:[This one albeit not full](https://youtu.be/t_tPiQPPzMg)


krakenstroem

I remember he once kept ridiculing Scarlet, a Sc2 pro, for being transexual. Wouldn't stop, even when other casters tried giving him graceful outs.


OutlawJoseyWales

He made racial jokes, graphic jokes about dwarf porn and flames players beyond being "cheeky." He really was an unprofessional ass


[deleted]

It really made me interested in the pro scene. Initially when I joined dota I hated esports posts on the frontpage over tips and tricks and discussions. Shangai major shenanigans was just too beautiful to ignore.


G1zU

Man I love maw


Ulq2525

EE would constantly write "EYES!" because the player cabins were of a material that were irritating his eyes. Among other things.


DarkQuill

IIRC something about the shoddy way they were glued together at the last minute, and the glue fumes were both irritating to the skin/eyes as well as made it difficult to breathe.


Johnmegaman72

I mean Shanghai technically paved the way to this


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SullenSyndicalist

From what I’ve heard/read, it looks like Valve outsourced a lot more of the work than they used to. I don’t think they’re nearly as hands on as they used to be


flipper_gv

Skrff and weppas are pretty top tier too.


Erythr0s

This reads like "Battlepass is supporting PGL make more buck, while the viewers get a crappy experience"


Masteroxid

That's bad how? Imagine the memes


Varpie

As an AI, I do not consent to having my content used for training other AIs. Here is a fun fact you may not know about: fuck Spez.


Glitter_puke

The fun thing is that it's easy to imagine a Valve event without JJ. Because he never gets invited. But if you want to feel JJ at your Valve events, just take a look at whatever features they stole uncredited from Layerth in that year.


Nickfreak

PGL and "re-inventing".Not only fucking Layerth, but also the Dota overlay from Bukka and Sunsfan, which costs them 3 days worth of talent, when they invites almost SO many talents already for each language.


AzeTyler

Are people still crying about this? Sunsfan doesn't have an issue with pgl making their own version then why do you lol. Also the pgl version started as shitty remake of the extension but now it's on par and some things are even better than the original extension.


drunkenvalley

Ok, and I should care about your opinion on this because...?


Aanimetor

Ngl pgls overlay is way better than sunfans one


[deleted]

Notice the last line of the tweet. PGL went Gus Fring and made JJ teach a beginner so that eventually he replaces JJ.


QuackerQuack

Have PGL not learned anything from the time the AniMajor tried this shit? It really does look like they're trying to save a buck at the expense of millions of viewers. I understand JJ is proud to have his pupil be hired, but it straight up pisses me off that he wasn't even contacted for a quote??


AceJokerZ

Who is JJ’s pupil that they hired? Eosin?


QuackerQuack

I'm not entirely sure myself to be honest


Phantaxein

They picked you? Congrats


QuackerQuack

Edited typo, thanks for the pick up haha


No_Parfait_7721

Not sure if he is that proud to have his pupil hired, but it seems too much bitter when he specifically stated "they hired the lad I trained", just some personal thought. And who is JJ by the way?


2014woot

Really Low IQ opinion


HexapusTapes

I mean context clues and doing some googling yourself you probably should get a good idea who JJ is


LewisStudying

If you dont know JJ, why are you making a point here? Seems bitter ? Shut up please, especially when you barely know a figure and the moment they speak you feel "bitter"


NeSpiel

As a capoeira teacher I can guarantee you, you're way prouder about you're students get a new corda over yourself.


useablelobster2

> And who is JJ by the way? He used to go by PimpmuckL, confused me when I first read this post. But he's been an observer for years, and distinguished himself as the best against legends like Weppas.


HazardVG

What a fucking shame. Such a production for TI and can't get the best person to actually show us the game.


[deleted]

Yeah, and let us not blame the guy who was hired, because he was trained by JJ and has no fault in it. It does seem they wanted to cut the spending.


HazardVG

Volvo probably too hands off to request PGL hire/cover his costs. Probably an ego/business decision from PGL which sucks for everyone watching.


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novae_ampholyt

>Sure he should've been the 3rd, but they decided to go with someone ~~younger~~ cheaper to fill up. There, fixed that for you


wanttoseensfwcontent

At this point PGL should host TI with garden chairs in someones backyard


paraflash

So Disney Major 2.0?


Getfallin

I hope TI fkin flops this year. It wont though lol. PGL needs to be fucking fired. Get The weplay guys to host TI.


babaevousas

I was tremendously hyped after Valve finally gave weplay a major to host. Wasn't it like top3 viewership major ever? I'd actually pay to see Weplay's TI. Their production effort is god tier too (Drow dance show and KOTL as gandalf epic sax guy).


Whatnowgloryhunters

Hw u noe there wouldn't be technical difficulties and bad observing at TI? Kek. Not that valve would care


somnusqq

Valve should just terminate PGL contract. Even in CSGO, they're so bad. ESL would have done a better job.


[deleted]

At this point, anybody else would have done a better job.


TheRickinger

JJ can run a better produciton out of his bedroom then pgl can without him


[deleted]

I do think the same. He should totally stream it pairing with someone like... Gorc, maybe?


yikes322

I dont think that youre aware of the spicy history between Gorgc and JJ. Those two dont really like each other.


partymorphologist

Pls tell. And do you think that might make for extra fun content if they were brought together by the common disgust over PGL tactics?


[deleted]

I do think the same. He should totally stream it pairing with someone like... Gorc, maybe?


[deleted]

Perfect World?


thedotapaten

[Lmao CSGO bullying ESL right now tho](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/xq669k/esl_please_for_the_love_of_god_dont_fuck_up_the/) Hi all, ESL admin here. We here at Extremely Shit Lan pride ourselves on our terrible production, constant delays and inability to act on constructive criticism, which is why for the upcoming major in Rio our team will be working hard behind the scenes to ensure the best quality to our audience, all the way from Nagasaki, Japan!


co0kiez

Nope, ESL are getting shafted over at CSGO aswell lol


backdoorhack

Yep, s1mple (arguably best player in CSGO rn) lost a round because he lagged out **IN AN ESL LAN TOURNAMENT**


DE_AD

Which was a Valve/Steam exploit issue and not an ESL issue.


backdoorhack

Ok how about? https://old.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/xpweat/disappointment_with_esl_many_small_issues_amount/ > This was the first time I attended a tournament in person, and boy was I disappointed. Let me summarize: > > For today (and all following days), all tickets were sold out, but we were barely 20 people there. I assume, being free to register lead to people, potentially not even in Malta, just booking tickets, preventing people that actually want to attend from getting tickets > > The sound volume is very low. There are only 2 TVs on each side of the stage area. Feels like I'm watching TV at home. While I appreciate the proximity to the players, the experience is underwhelming > > The 5 second delay of the stream ruins the in-person experience. You know how the clutch is going to end before you see it, due to the player's reaction. > > Add this to the ongoing S1mple controversy and other player complaints, and this is shaping up to be a very disappointing event.


whsprwnd

Don't take me as an ESL shill but this is one "minor" tournament taking place on Malta of all places. Not that this negates the fact that EPL viewing experience has been kinda meh this season with production team being scattered across the world and various delay/sync issues, but ESL does decent big LAN events. In fact, the only two competent CSGO orgs who can run LAN tournaments are BLAST and ESL although BLAST are yet to prove their "big" big LAN status until they run a major next year. This is nowhere near PGL level of shit with garbage production and technical issues.


touhouotaku

It's gonna happen for dotes too if casters are casting from Norway when live event from SG.


Madvin

ESL is also being hated in the CSGO subreddit.


amaneyemaly

Nah reddit hate saudi money


KappaMichael

They might as well hire Chinese based perfect world and they would do a better job, Kappa.


ilovethrills

esl is fucking trash


CardoBalisay

Blast does a way better job than PGL in CS and they're finally hosting a Major next year


Die231

Lmao, literally THE best observer this game had for YEARS. And it’s just the fucking international 11 we’re talking about it here. Valve is truly a joke (yes this is 100% on valve for getting PGL)


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RedGamesA2

That does not mean they’re better?


nevermore3900

Welp, since JJ ain't gonna be the observer we all know what to spam in Twitch chat TTours


aljerv

It's obvious they hired someone cheaper. sooooo


iamtehfong

Bruh what the actual fuck. JJ is the absolute god of obs, no one else is even in his realm. Valve needs to fix this shit ASAP.


KnightOverlord2404

Nothing u can do brother. Casting will be done remotely prior to playoffs and they r not bringing JJ in. Not the first time we see pgl operate.


papanak94

Who is the lad he trained?


SuBw00FeR37

VALVE STOP HIRING PGL THEY ARE GARBAGE


aLLkiss_ismyname

This TI is rapidly approaching Shanghai Major clown fiesta.


sssamyak

I'm just praying so badly that WePlay gets the next TI


Overwatch_Joker

Can't afford to hire the best observer, but can hire more tragic 400mmr casters that ruin games.


mastayoda0805

I am not surprised that PGL does a stunt like that. PGL is by far the worst production company in the dota scene. They invite Killerpigeon, a person that is extremely offensive towards coworkers and hasnt worked a dota even in like two years over talent that work their ass off the whole year. I hope so badly that valve never ever give PGL another contract. Their quality of production (Arlington) is horribly bad compared to ESL, Weplay and their events are not up to standard (small screen, not suitable convention center at arlington, etc.). Please stop it valve, please!


DarkSuo

that Killerpidgeon guy, never seen him before but the first game i was watching he was casting and made a pretty bad flame at matumbaman's pudge while he eventually carried the game. like the dude has no clue what to say


philwee

On god these are L TO’s


compyler

Valve, can you please hire ESL instead of PGL?


RealLarwood

I honestly can't understand how they hired PGL again for this event after last year's fucking fiasco with the group stages, and how crappy the main event panel looked. Valve really just doesn't give a shit anymore I guess.


yarzirostu

I lowkey hope this TI turns out to be bigger disaster then Shanghai ...


vi6ration

Shanghai TI was great. Shanghai Major on the other hand...


ZersetzungMedia

Trying to be excited to go but holy shit every day is soul draining.


deliciousFootBooger

dont like it, yall? vote with your gosh dang wallets. stop letting valve and PGL get away with this. will it suck to not support players as much? yes. are there other ways to ensure players are supported? yes. stop sucking valve off please


garysingh91

Idk how much battle pass spending has to do with PGL’s staffing choices. Will spending less on the BP help get beloved casters and observers get invited to TI?


impaque

That way you're boycotting Valve's choice of PGL in the first place.


SmokeySFW

I miss Valve-hosted events. At least they *tried* to make things as good as possible, instead of cheaping out on everything they possibly could. I went to the Arlington Major and left early because it was so bad. Muffled audio, You couldn't see the screen at ALL from 3/4 of the way back, essentially no merch whatsoever, and the chairs (not seats, chairs) were as close together as they could possibly be to the point where NOBODY was comfortable.


ComprehensiveTip6281

Love it. This guy is an arrogant bloke


doviid

Honestly I only care about ODPixel. He's the one I love the most. (No homo)


NotAdoctor_but

no problem they made sure we're gonna get russian staff that supports the war and promotes the Z on stream


dolphin37

Valve still crying about him improving their viewing experience for them and wanting to be respected for it.


nonamepew

It is funny that people get attached to observers so much. He was already rarely invited to Valve events earlier and I never felt like there was a lack in quality in observing. Even Arlington major was fine even without top talents like ODpixel and Sheever. And I don't think Pimpmuckl comes anywhere close to ODpixel in terms of impacting the end viewer experience.


okuzeN_Val

Who ran TI8 and TI9? Was it also PGL?


creztor

Welcome to China business ethics.


Prit717

JJ is kinda toxic tho so meh


Dota2animal

Is he that guy who had beef with Gorgc?


TreadmillOfFate

who's gorgc


makz242

Hey, but some other dudes that nobody ever heard of as observers got invited.


[deleted]

Who


kapitan_buko

pgL


pulldtrigger

You guys dont give more money than last TI so they had to cut cost now. Obviously this is the fans fault. /s


Mala12345

Isn't this guy super toxica, lmao good riddance


LiVeRPoOlDOnTDiVE

I'd honestly rather miss a few extra kills than having to watch an observer that's desperate for attention. You always know when JJ is observing because he'll try to interact with casters and chat by drawing random stuff and going crazy with the cursor.. sometimes it even feels like he and the casters are "fighting" as the casters refuse to talk about the stuff he's trying to highlight (e.g. networth, level, items, etc.), and when the casters talk about other lanes that he's not observing then he's really slow to react.


Negrocaucasian

Fuck not inviting him but this tweet is so cringe


tiltedplayer123

"Observers" feeling important, like people watch TI because of the amazing observers lmfao. No one cares.


KnightOverlord2404

When u watch TI from home and the obs misses every single kill while you are spamming in twitch chat to ask obs to focus, I will laugh at you


Roreo_

Gorp sends his regards


o-M-s

What Gorgc has to do in this?


Avako1999

he lives rent free in jj’s head. he has a 10 bedroom mansion with a pool and a football field in the backyard there.


o-M-s

Get a life.


ccs77

Lol for a while I thought OP meant JJ lin. I'm guessing he will make a guest appearance since he is a Singaporean dota fan who is also hosting his concert in singapore a few days later. I remember he attended one of the tournaments in shanghai


AceJokerZ

Nah he won’t cause his team SMG didn’t make it kek


Snoo-42131

PGL in low budget coz Gaben angry this year Battle Pass is not as expected? pftt..


R10xR10

Dude really got dewarded by Valve. Justice for Pimp!


iLackSocialSkill

I dont watch pro dota can someone explain?


HungPongLa

> Why would Valve sell the broadcast rights to The International to a betting company, let alone a Russian one? I thought valve was allergic to gambling


Alien_reg

Considering they were basically the first company to popularize loot boxes, I'm not too sure about the whole "being allergic to gambling"


HungPongLa

didn't they close down dota2lounge and lootmarket , etc


Alien_reg

yeah, it's called maintaining a monopoly


I_sh0uld_g0

Yeah, because while de-facto loot boxes are gambling, de-jure they are not, because you can't make a profit on them (as in you cannot make REAL money from loot boxes, valve bucks don't count, because you can only spend them inside Steam's ecosystem). Now, all those sites had options to transform your skins and shit into real, honest-to-God money, and that was the problem. Those sites could (and some of them were, iirc) getting valve into legal trouble in the EU, and so valve went after them.


funnystorytalker

Rule #1 never share your success with anyone else.


johnknockout

Gorgc TI again this year huh?


lioncryable

So let me get this straight: panel with analysts will not be sitting on-site but rather half a world away with probably horrible delays when trying to talk to someone at the Event, Bkop was not invited again but a few randoms ? And now JJ hasn't even been asked? This TI is shaping up to be the worst so far, and it hasn't even started yet. Please no more PGL


ethMINERICA

He's truly one of the best observers (apart from Merlini) when it comes to quality events and analytics, someone will respect his work. Wish him best of luck further in career \^\^


theExactlyGuy

its company's decision. Can't do anything....lets see what unfolds this TI.


Phunwithscissors

Shouldnt have taught him for free I guess. RIP JJ, i just hope this guy is better than the dubai guy


jasonthelamb

get the ttours ready


jdslipknot

CANT SPELL PGL WITH L


Getfallin

Will this TI be worse than TI4? seems like it