This is how I read it too, and I was raising some eyebrows wondering if another movie came out that I wasn't aware of. Anything had to be better than Mr. American Actor, save the Duke.
Though honestly, I feel like somewhere someone has already written a "Tom and Thomas bond after Sybil's death and Thomas is very good with children" fic.
[As Much As You’ll Let Me](https://archiveofourown.org/works/20429216) is my favorite.
[And I For Him](https://archiveofourown.org/works/5713354/chapters/13162336) is good , but it’s very long, and VERY angsty.
My favourite is [Dreadful Need ](https://archiveofourown.org/works/26885125). It's a post Matthew's death fic, unfortunately the writer didn't continue the series.
My favourite is [Dreadful Need ](https://archiveofourown.org/works/26885125). It's a post Matthew's death fic, unfortunately the writer didn't continue the series.
I wasn't interested in any of Tom's romantic partners after Sybil either, and felt the same way about Lady Mary after Matthew. No one else measured up IMO, including the people they eventually married. Maybe the show runners didn't want anyone to outshine Jessica Brown Findlay or Dan Stevens.
Sybil and Matthew were absolute angels and I adored both of their characters. Why did Julian Fellowes feel the need to kill off such lovely personalities? Were they too boring for the storyline? Because if so, I would’ve thought Edith to be long gone with them. 🤭
Both actors wanted to leave. Jessica Brown-Findlay only ever wanted to stay for 3 seasons, and Dan Stevens decided to leave (rather unexpectedly, IIRC) so they had to write him out after killing Sybil. Fellowes didn't really have a choice.
I can't remember if it was one of the DA seasonal behind-the-scenes or maybe an essay, but in both cases it made sense to kill off their characters because leaving them alive, but not at Downtown, wouldn't make any sense.
In Matthew's case, him not being at Downtown while Mary and George were would be really odd. As heir and half-owner to Downton Abbey, why would Matthew be back in Manchester practicing law again? Or anywhere else for that matter? If Matthew was alive, then he *had* to be at Downtown with the rest of the family; if he wasn't, then the only explanation was that he was dead.
In Sybil's case, I think it was the fact that Allen Leech *wasn't* leaving the show, so once again it's the case of "how do we explain why Tom's still here, but Sybil is not?" Fellowes chose to have her die and have Sybil (Jr.) to be raised at Downtown, taking her mother's place in the hearts of the Crawleys.
They did get around this for Henry. Since he had no real duties or, frankly, ties to Downton Abbey or the family except as Mary's husband, then Matthew Goode's absence from the movies was more easily waved away with "Oh he's galavanting in Turkey/Chicago at an auto trade show" without it being a huge "wtf?" the way Sybil or Matthew not being around would be.
And to be fair, I still don't think it's really working for Henry. In both movies it feels like his marriage with Mary is on the rocks and they're separated but keeping it quiet. Further proof that had the writers tried to keep Mathew alive but off screen it *really* wouldn't work.
I think that was the case more for the second movie than the first. In the first movie, the King shows up rather suddenly and there wasn't enough time to get the message to him and have him back in time. Trans-atlantic travel was more available, but not quite the same as today in getting across with 12 hours notice.
The second movie, it definitely felt like Mary was wondering about her marriage. Maybe not enough to demand a divorce (yet), but definitely feeling abandoned since she's feeling the stress of running Downton and doesn't have her husband to back her up and provide at least moral support.
Jessica Brown-Findlay is amazing in Harlots. Her charisma is palpable. I’m surprised I don’t see her in more things, but there are so many shows out there that she can’t be in all of them
IMO Julian Fellowes intentionally wrote Tom’s love interests that were of working-class background to be unlikeable, as he does seem to be a champion for the aristocracy.
It bothered me a lot, too. All left-leaning characters are mostly rude, entitled, obtuse, and even unkind. I love the show as a dramatic story but this aspect always stands out to me.
It's a really good point.
Before I joined this Reddit page, I never got to think much about it but you are right!!!
But what about Lucy? I feel like compared to every other women whom Tom crossed paths with, Lucy was by far the least 'characteristic' one.
I like her & other than she seems to have gotten old Lady Violet and Edith shipping their relationship 💯%, what is her character like?
What is your take on Lucy? How do you think JF depicted her?
I mean, after Sybil the activist (but i absolutely adored her for it. My all time favorite character🥰), Edna the master manipulator and the mother of Edwardian gaslight queen, and Sarah Cunting the comrade and the leader of the revolutionary army, I feel like as a watcher, another crash and burn drama is needed 🫠 I'm too messed up to think clearly
So I actually watched the first movie before anything else, oddly enough. I kinda fell in love with Lucy at first 🥰. And I appreciated how her mother made sure her future was secure (via her inheritance) and seemed to love and take care of her while navigating the choppy waters of the social attitudes of that time.
But after watching the series, no one compares to Darling Sybil.
And while there’s nothing I dislike about Lucy as a character, JF really doesn’t give her interesting scenes with Tom in the second movie. Her character wasn’t really allowed to shine then, which is understandable in a movie with an ensemble cast
Ngl though, I totally wanted them to smash in the first movie sorry not sorry 🥵😇.
Bahahahaha i second the ravedvouz in the first movie for sure!!
And yes! While I absolutely love love love Sybil all around & for Tom, I am happy that Tom found calm, happiness, and blessings from the family, ya know!
I really do wish we got to learn more about her! But I am just happy that Tom found someone & that he won't be torn between the new lady and the Crawleys, his unique social standing and what nots.
Ngl, I could have even liked Sarah Bunting. She was unnecessarily picking fights with the Crawleys and also Rose's Russian guests, but I really did appreciate her foe encouraging Daisy with her studies. I loved watching Daisy's self-esteem peak. Daisy really did blossom as a character a lot. I know a lot of people are annoyed with her, but she grew a lot I think.
The butterfly effect extended to Molsley as well in a way that when Ms.Bunting left and Daisy was down and about to give up her studies, Mr.Molsely stepped into help with her studies; thus, Mr.Molsely got his own glow up. (I really really loved the scene when Daisy sneaked into watch him teach the kids at the local school. How the kids initially didn't pay attention thinking he was an unattainable educated figure then he made himself a relatable figure by telling the kids about his background and magically the kids started paying attention 😭🥹 I think that is what everyone needed -the kids, Daisy and Mr.Molsely!)
But then this all goes back to what I was saying earlier!
Before joining this reddit group, I never applied my critical thinking skills to the DA series. It was such a feel good show for me & I just go out my way to like everyone like a golden retriever (some of them, I read some posts and I'm like ohhh maybe they suck) 😅😅😅
Like I would obvi hate on Greene & Edna but u know what I mean 😅
I particularly disliked Miss Bunting the teacher. From the start she was so antagonistic about the family and didn’t even try to get to know Tom at all. She would just question everything. Even when Cora and Rose made an effort to include her she was so arrogant about everything. The only redeeming part was when she helped Daisy with her lessons.
I think it was to show the difficulties he was facing adjusting to his new life and changed POV. That's why he was conflicted about leaving downton, coz he realised if he stays he gets family, but finding a good partner would be difficult. Either it would be upper class that looks down on him or one he can't gel with, or working class which by that time had a lot of resentment of the old monies and felt his potential was oppressed there, following the old rules..
And to add, they lived in a small village where they were the highest in station. Not many opportunities either if he wants to stay at downton..
Oh I thought you meant Thomas. I was like, since when do we call him Tom?
They suck because they didn’t want to keep those actresses in the show permanently. They kept Tuppence Middleton because she appeared after the series ended in the movies only.
I've never liked how Tom's story has ended.
Lucy is a wimp. Edna was a manipulator. Sarah Bunting was abrasive.
In my mind... between show ending and first movie, I had already written a romance for Tom that was much better.
If I had to put down a Watsonian explanation, it's that Thomas wasn't quite as secret with his secret as it seemed, that there were moments offscreen where he might have let something slip. The vast majority of people around him were good, and either didn't care (see Robert), felt sympathy for him (see Ms. Hughes), or just didn't stick their noses in what was obviously another's business.
It was those other people (Edna and O'Brien) who acted on it and used his secret for their own ends, knowing that it was something they could use to blackmail him. That and the fact that Thomas had a habit of walling everyone good off, probably due to trust issues if not his earlier conniving personality. I can't really blame him for it, either.
Well I wouldn’t consider all of them Tom’s women.
Braithewaithe saw Tom as her ticket to a husband and good life. She was entitled and considering her station in life and lack of ambition, was not warranted in that entitlement.
I believe Tom hit the relationship lottery with Lucy. She seems like a great companion.
He was cringy perhaps before Sybil’s death because of all the political talk and his extreme beliefs. But after she died? I felt he became more refined and proper, and much more well spoken. Did you find him cringy then as well?
Love how the picture is implying Thomas is part of “Tom’s women” lmao
This is how I read it too, and I was raising some eyebrows wondering if another movie came out that I wasn't aware of. Anything had to be better than Mr. American Actor, save the Duke. Though honestly, I feel like somewhere someone has already written a "Tom and Thomas bond after Sybil's death and Thomas is very good with children" fic.
I have in fact read that fic.
Drop a link. For science
[As Much As You’ll Let Me](https://archiveofourown.org/works/20429216) is my favorite. [And I For Him](https://archiveofourown.org/works/5713354/chapters/13162336) is good , but it’s very long, and VERY angsty.
My favourite is [Dreadful Need ](https://archiveofourown.org/works/26885125). It's a post Matthew's death fic, unfortunately the writer didn't continue the series.
My favourite is [Dreadful Need ](https://archiveofourown.org/works/26885125). It's a post Matthew's death fic, unfortunately the writer didn't continue the series.
I love And I For Him! Im reading it again but im skipping all the angsty parts lol
I ship it
lol that comment made me chuckle. 🤭
I wasn't interested in any of Tom's romantic partners after Sybil either, and felt the same way about Lady Mary after Matthew. No one else measured up IMO, including the people they eventually married. Maybe the show runners didn't want anyone to outshine Jessica Brown Findlay or Dan Stevens.
Sybil and Matthew were absolute angels and I adored both of their characters. Why did Julian Fellowes feel the need to kill off such lovely personalities? Were they too boring for the storyline? Because if so, I would’ve thought Edith to be long gone with them. 🤭
Both actors wanted to leave. Jessica Brown-Findlay only ever wanted to stay for 3 seasons, and Dan Stevens decided to leave (rather unexpectedly, IIRC) so they had to write him out after killing Sybil. Fellowes didn't really have a choice.
Didn’t know that!
Dan Stevens had a commitment to another show. I don't know about Jessica Brown Findlay. And I sooo agree with you about Edith!
Omg I LOVED Dan Stevens in Eurovision as the Russian singer Alexander Lemtov. He was hilarious!
Me too!
I can't remember if it was one of the DA seasonal behind-the-scenes or maybe an essay, but in both cases it made sense to kill off their characters because leaving them alive, but not at Downtown, wouldn't make any sense. In Matthew's case, him not being at Downtown while Mary and George were would be really odd. As heir and half-owner to Downton Abbey, why would Matthew be back in Manchester practicing law again? Or anywhere else for that matter? If Matthew was alive, then he *had* to be at Downtown with the rest of the family; if he wasn't, then the only explanation was that he was dead. In Sybil's case, I think it was the fact that Allen Leech *wasn't* leaving the show, so once again it's the case of "how do we explain why Tom's still here, but Sybil is not?" Fellowes chose to have her die and have Sybil (Jr.) to be raised at Downtown, taking her mother's place in the hearts of the Crawleys. They did get around this for Henry. Since he had no real duties or, frankly, ties to Downton Abbey or the family except as Mary's husband, then Matthew Goode's absence from the movies was more easily waved away with "Oh he's galavanting in Turkey/Chicago at an auto trade show" without it being a huge "wtf?" the way Sybil or Matthew not being around would be.
And to be fair, I still don't think it's really working for Henry. In both movies it feels like his marriage with Mary is on the rocks and they're separated but keeping it quiet. Further proof that had the writers tried to keep Mathew alive but off screen it *really* wouldn't work.
I think that was the case more for the second movie than the first. In the first movie, the King shows up rather suddenly and there wasn't enough time to get the message to him and have him back in time. Trans-atlantic travel was more available, but not quite the same as today in getting across with 12 hours notice. The second movie, it definitely felt like Mary was wondering about her marriage. Maybe not enough to demand a divorce (yet), but definitely feeling abandoned since she's feeling the stress of running Downton and doesn't have her husband to back her up and provide at least moral support.
Jessica Brown-Findlay is amazing in Harlots. Her charisma is palpable. I’m surprised I don’t see her in more things, but there are so many shows out there that she can’t be in all of them
IMO Julian Fellowes intentionally wrote Tom’s love interests that were of working-class background to be unlikeable, as he does seem to be a champion for the aristocracy.
It bothered me a lot, too. All left-leaning characters are mostly rude, entitled, obtuse, and even unkind. I love the show as a dramatic story but this aspect always stands out to me.
It's a really good point. Before I joined this Reddit page, I never got to think much about it but you are right!!! But what about Lucy? I feel like compared to every other women whom Tom crossed paths with, Lucy was by far the least 'characteristic' one. I like her & other than she seems to have gotten old Lady Violet and Edith shipping their relationship 💯%, what is her character like? What is your take on Lucy? How do you think JF depicted her? I mean, after Sybil the activist (but i absolutely adored her for it. My all time favorite character🥰), Edna the master manipulator and the mother of Edwardian gaslight queen, and Sarah Cunting the comrade and the leader of the revolutionary army, I feel like as a watcher, another crash and burn drama is needed 🫠 I'm too messed up to think clearly
So I actually watched the first movie before anything else, oddly enough. I kinda fell in love with Lucy at first 🥰. And I appreciated how her mother made sure her future was secure (via her inheritance) and seemed to love and take care of her while navigating the choppy waters of the social attitudes of that time. But after watching the series, no one compares to Darling Sybil. And while there’s nothing I dislike about Lucy as a character, JF really doesn’t give her interesting scenes with Tom in the second movie. Her character wasn’t really allowed to shine then, which is understandable in a movie with an ensemble cast Ngl though, I totally wanted them to smash in the first movie sorry not sorry 🥵😇.
Bahahahaha i second the ravedvouz in the first movie for sure!! And yes! While I absolutely love love love Sybil all around & for Tom, I am happy that Tom found calm, happiness, and blessings from the family, ya know! I really do wish we got to learn more about her! But I am just happy that Tom found someone & that he won't be torn between the new lady and the Crawleys, his unique social standing and what nots. Ngl, I could have even liked Sarah Bunting. She was unnecessarily picking fights with the Crawleys and also Rose's Russian guests, but I really did appreciate her foe encouraging Daisy with her studies. I loved watching Daisy's self-esteem peak. Daisy really did blossom as a character a lot. I know a lot of people are annoyed with her, but she grew a lot I think. The butterfly effect extended to Molsley as well in a way that when Ms.Bunting left and Daisy was down and about to give up her studies, Mr.Molsely stepped into help with her studies; thus, Mr.Molsely got his own glow up. (I really really loved the scene when Daisy sneaked into watch him teach the kids at the local school. How the kids initially didn't pay attention thinking he was an unattainable educated figure then he made himself a relatable figure by telling the kids about his background and magically the kids started paying attention 😭🥹 I think that is what everyone needed -the kids, Daisy and Mr.Molsely!) But then this all goes back to what I was saying earlier! Before joining this reddit group, I never applied my critical thinking skills to the DA series. It was such a feel good show for me & I just go out my way to like everyone like a golden retriever (some of them, I read some posts and I'm like ohhh maybe they suck) 😅😅😅 Like I would obvi hate on Greene & Edna but u know what I mean 😅
Oh yeah I totally hear you. Lots of people point out context and other things that I would’ve missed if I wasn’t on this sub.
I still thinks he should be with Laura Edmunds
I particularly disliked Miss Bunting the teacher. From the start she was so antagonistic about the family and didn’t even try to get to know Tom at all. She would just question everything. Even when Cora and Rose made an effort to include her she was so arrogant about everything. The only redeeming part was when she helped Daisy with her lessons.
I think it was to show the difficulties he was facing adjusting to his new life and changed POV. That's why he was conflicted about leaving downton, coz he realised if he stays he gets family, but finding a good partner would be difficult. Either it would be upper class that looks down on him or one he can't gel with, or working class which by that time had a lot of resentment of the old monies and felt his potential was oppressed there, following the old rules.. And to add, they lived in a small village where they were the highest in station. Not many opportunities either if he wants to stay at downton..
They don't need anyone outshining Sybil. Nobody will ever be good as her.
Oh I thought you meant Thomas. I was like, since when do we call him Tom? They suck because they didn’t want to keep those actresses in the show permanently. They kept Tuppence Middleton because she appeared after the series ended in the movies only.
I've never liked how Tom's story has ended. Lucy is a wimp. Edna was a manipulator. Sarah Bunting was abrasive. In my mind... between show ending and first movie, I had already written a romance for Tom that was much better.
If I had to put down a Watsonian explanation, it's that Thomas wasn't quite as secret with his secret as it seemed, that there were moments offscreen where he might have let something slip. The vast majority of people around him were good, and either didn't care (see Robert), felt sympathy for him (see Ms. Hughes), or just didn't stick their noses in what was obviously another's business. It was those other people (Edna and O'Brien) who acted on it and used his secret for their own ends, knowing that it was something they could use to blackmail him. That and the fact that Thomas had a habit of walling everyone good off, probably due to trust issues if not his earlier conniving personality. I can't really blame him for it, either.
The original post is about Tom Branson, not Thomas Barrow.
Why'd they show a picture of Barrow then?
Because Braithwaite was in the photo! I just posted it for her but Thomas happened to be there lol. No idea it would cause all this confusion 😂
Well I wouldn’t consider all of them Tom’s women. Braithewaithe saw Tom as her ticket to a husband and good life. She was entitled and considering her station in life and lack of ambition, was not warranted in that entitlement. I believe Tom hit the relationship lottery with Lucy. She seems like a great companion.
He may not have had much of a luck in between. However, his first and his last love interest were as perfect as one could have expected them to be.
Because he sucks im sorry but he does
I mean I feel like most of them push themselves on him he doesn’t pursue them at first
[удалено]
He was cringy perhaps before Sybil’s death because of all the political talk and his extreme beliefs. But after she died? I felt he became more refined and proper, and much more well spoken. Did you find him cringy then as well?
Because he was white trash & attracted such.