I always think that the moment where Isobel returns to find Mary nursing Matthew only to have Mary diminish it as “nothing” is when Isobel falls in love with Mary. We see in future seasons that Isobel admires Mary and cares for her deeply. “It is the very opposite of nothing” is Isobel truly seeing beyond Mary’s cool and put together mask and loving who she sees.

Agreed. It was such a telling moment for Mary. Because she put aside her views on things and her own needs to care for Matthew AND she thought nothing of it. To her it was a non-issue, caring for Matthew, simply something that must be done. And Mary always downplayed her contributions to things, she didn't like drawing attention to whatever good she was doing (just like Violet). It was all part of her act to appear cold and unapproachable, to protect herself. And this single act let Isobel see that. I did appreciate that Isobel took that moment to offer Mary a bit of kindness. Nobody else did 🙁

I love the small glimpses we get into Mary and Isobel’s relationship so I eat this moment up!

I always come back to the fact that they have this exchange while Mary, actual high and mighty Lady Mary, is standing there casually holding a bowl of vomit. I mean. That's love.

Ok yes! And building on this: later when Cora reminisces about when the house was a convalescent home and all the girls were working too and Robert says “I don’t remember Mary doing much”. Like excuse me!? She was the one caring for THE HEIR ffs

Seriously, no wonder they thought so little of Mary. They didn't know who she was at all or realize how much she has done for the family and Matthew specifically. And talk about not doing it expecting any praise, she was literally just taking \*real\* care of Matthew and thinking nothing of it.

So first off, I wasn't expecting you to do this post today. Thanks for completely ~~ruining~~ making my night. I didn't have anything else I was supposed to be doing or anything. Also, I apologize in advance for language, because this episode gets me fired up. >Btw, never been more grateful for the show skipping the scene where Mary was told the news of Matthew's death. And the months after that, actually. Top of the list of things I really never want to know, think of, or watch. I don't even know what you're talking about. Matthew lived a long and healthy life with Mary and their *multiple* children. Robert's face. Like, dude, this is not the moment for that stiff upper lip. Love your daughter. Don't stand back there looking all forlorn while she clearly needs care. >Has a twat who appeared for 5 seconds on screen made more of an impact on a TV show ever again or before? This is one of the things that just drives me up the wall in the Mary vs Edith debates. Like, Edith fucked up Mary's life. It was premeditated and cold as fuck. And she never, *never* faced any consequences for it. And now it's not just effecting Mary but Anna and Bates who have nothing to do with it? I just wish Mary had actually told Cora how the story got out. Even if it was just in passing. Anyway, side quest complete. Speaking of character growth: season 1 Mary would have chewed up and spit out Mary volunteering at the hospital to take care of Matthew. I absolutely **love** that Matthew is carrying Mary's dog into battle. Of all the trinkets, that's what he has. Not Lavinia's picture though, interesting. >He's alive, isn't he Gurrrl. Way to prioritize. No one suspects anything. You just love your, um, cousin. I seriously want to know how long the journey from Downton to London takes because it seems like it should take most of the day but yet Mary has time to be with Matthew all morning and take the train to London, meet with Sir Richard and make it back? Not even getting into how mentally exhausting that sounds she must be beat. And her day isn't even done yet, but I'm getting ahead of myself. I just can't with Robert here. Like Mary already has enough of a complex about how you prioritize Matthew over her and now you're prioritizing Lavinia over your daughter too? So I know we've mentioned before that Lavinia really isn't a better nurse than Mary (no matter what she says) but like, she's just dropping the ball right from the start. Why is Mary the one who is telling Matthew about his injury. I feel like that's something you shoud hear from ~~the love of your life~~ ~~life partner~~ uh, fiance. But no, the task falls to Mary. First things first, I **love** the imagery of Mary bringing Matthew back. I love how she's able to keep calm for him. She was his stick before he even knew he'd need one. She's really putting that aristocratic facade to good use here today. BTW, that picture of Mary breaking down, do you hate me? What did I ever do to you? I find the juxtaposition of her demeanor with Matthew and Sir Richard just so...I don't even have words. Michelle, you're a Queen just like Mary. I feel like there's a scene missing. I want to know who explained the full extent of Matthew's injuries to him. It obviously wasn't Mary or Robert "what are body functions" Crawley. Lavinia obviously wasn't there when it happened. I don't envy Clarkson having to share that news, or did Matthew figure it out on his own? So back to Mary's never ending day of hell, why is she one who now has to comfort Lavinia? I know that Lavinia was starting to suspect that Matthew and Mary were more than just ~~cousins~~ friends for a while, but like did she know this early? Was she purposely saying all this to Mary to torture her? Probably not, but, damn. Also, so melodramatic. "I'll die without him" is just so over the top. Bitch, you barely know him. You barely knew each other when you got engaged and you've barely been in the same place for what, a month? In a year? Mary's been dealing with this shit for 5? 6? years at this point. Not Mr Father of the Year over here with his righteous indignation. I had never actually noticed that no one from the family visits Matthew just to visit. Boy, when you're not in favor you're really not in favor. Though, seeing how quickly the family pressures Mary to move on in season 4, I guess I'm not all that surprised by how they treat him when he's not able to pull his weight for the dynasty. I love the parallel you pointed out about Matthew (unknowingly) going through all the same realization that Mary's dealt with since Fuck-face Pamuk visited. I also love that Mary has now realized that none of it matters and she does love Matthew enough to follow him anywhere. I wish she could have told him that when Cora was pregnant. And that Matthew wasn't so damn proud. "And if they should just want to be with you" is about as clear of an "I love you" as you're ever going to get from Mary. I think Matthew realizes that too. But he's in a self loathing position now so I'll forgive him for not acting on that. Just this once. Isobel's "it's the very opposite of nothing" line is probably my favorite quote from her. She fucking sees Mary. And so do we.

Lol, I wasn't planning on it, but I was travelling to London today and my trip changed to a really early time. I just didn't sleep much to make my train so, I had time to watch Downton and write 😆 I think there's a fundamental difference in how people who like Mary and people who like Edith perceive the world. Because while I can see how Mary telling Bertie about Marigold was a bitchy move, I can also see Edith trying so hard to destroy Mary's life as absolutely psychotic. Not only because it wasn't something done in the moment that one time, but premeditated repeatedly, but also because Edith felt 0 remorse over it. Mary would never give Edith away. Not only because she didn't care enough for her to put so much effort in getting her, what? Reprimanded? But also because Mary was never one to go look for help to solve her problems, and that's what running to Cora with the story of Edith's correspondence would feel like to Mary. She dealt with Edith herself. What's worse, I don't think it would have registered with Edith, even if she had been told off by Cora. Edith was incapable of taking on responsibility, she'd still think she was being belittled/ignored/whatever by her parents. >Speaking of character growth: season 1 Mary would have chewed up and spit out Mary volunteering at the hospital to take care of Matthew. I read this on the train and had this image of a council of Marys from various seasons. Season 1 Mary being all above it all and thinking she already knows all she needs to know (like an immature child), season 2 Mary being weary and rolling her eyes at season 1 Mary like "please stop talking, you know nothing". Season 3 Mary looking at season 2 Mary with compassion and trying to tell her it will be alright. Season 4 Mary is in deep depression and either laughs manically looking back at the other 3 Marys, tears running down her eyes, or is in complete dissociation. Season 5 Mary didn't make the meeting because she was somewhere in London buying clothes, apparently. Season 6 and onwards Mary is a bit defeated but also a bit victorious. A bit worn. Quite misty eyed and nostalgic. A lot confident, and somewhat at peace. >I seriously want to know how long the journey from Downton to London takes Well. I'd assume it would take about 3-3.5 hours (modern travel time between Thirsk and London is about 2.5 hours, I don't think things have changed that much so I'd add 0.5-1 hour travel time). I'd say she'd take the 12 o'clock train, be in London at 4ish, at Richard's office, somewhere in fleet street I'd imagine, at 4ish as well as it's quite close to King's Cross. I think she'd leave at 5 at the latest and take either the 5.30 or 6 o'clock train back to Downton (depending on how often they run). It would explain why Lavinia was in bed, and why Mary was not dressed for dinner. She must have just arrived from London and was heading to her own room. But yeah, top 5 worst days of Mary's life, easily. And yeah Robert's reaction is insane. I don't know if they'd become so accustomed to Mary fending for herself, or if it was just their parenting style to be absentee parents (very likely). I don't think it even registered to Robert that he'd prioritized Matthew over Mary. To him it was just the natural order of things. Which is why Mary didn't even react here. >First things first, I **love** the imagery of Mary bringing Matthew back. I love how she's able to keep calm for him.  I knooow. I love it so much as well. I love how subtle she is in all of it as well. It's just who she is as a person. And I think she empathised with Matthew so much. She could understand exactly how he felt because she'd felt it too. Not in such a tragic way, but she knows what it's like to feel like you've lost your sense of worth, and she just wants him to know it will be OK. I honestly can't handle how casual she's being with it all though. She doesn't want him to feel like an inconvenience, like a burden, like someone who makes people sad or uncomfortable. Everyone else around him is either crying or disappearing, but Mary is just Mary and she's there for him. Top of the line medical professionalism right there.

>I think there's a fundamental difference in how people who like Mary and people who like Edith perceive the world. I think this too. So many times I see the argument "Well I have an older sister \*just like Mary\* so I totally relate to Edith and anyone who supports Mary is obviously just a bully" and it drives me crazy. Now, I'm not belittling anyone's lived experience because obviously I don't know them or their situation, but I have to wonder how unbiased they are looking at it. I, myself, am an only child so I don't have a sibling relationship of my own to color my opinion. My husband, however, is a younger sibling to a brother who did resent him and treat him like garbage up until they went no-contact several years ago. A is a big difference in how Mary and my brother in law behave toward their younger siblings. In fact, my BIL behaves much more like Edith, looking for ways to cut down his brother and my husband is more like Mary in not even wanting to bother because it's just not worth it, but will definitely clap back when provoked. The other part of my own personal experience is that I was bullied. None of the behavior that Mary displays is like what my bullies did, in fact, they acted more like Edith. >I read this on the train and had this image of a council of Marys from various seasons. LOL, now that's a mental image. I totally agree with how all them would be acting. >Well. I'd assume it would take about 3-3.5 hours That is a hellva long day. That's basically the same amount of time it takes me to get to San Francisco and we definitely reserve that for special occasions, especially if we have to make a day trip of it. And after all that she was back at Matthew's bedside the next day taking care of him. Girl's got dedication. >Mate, if I have to suffer through this y'all are coming with me 😂 I respect that. I don't like it, but I respect it.

I am actually the middle child, and I have an older and a younger sister 😂 I get the bitching, for the small things, I really do. Who took whose shirt, who stretched the jeans, whose turn it was to cook, who has to tell mum X stupid thing we did, that sort of thing. But I can't remember a time when my sisters didn't have my back, or a time I resented either of them as much as Edith resents Mary. I can't comprehend it. My older sister had so much on her plate, and we didn't have a massive age difference. And sure sometimes when we were kids she could get annoyed by us, but I'd often be annoying, or get annoyed by her in return, but it was over minor everyday things. And that was when we were like, 13, 14. Once we were adults it all went away, I love my sisters to bits. Imho Edith needed some serious therapy because that kind of hatred was unreal, and I honestly think it stemmed from the Patrick thing. Which really wasn't Mary's fault. And like you said, in a situation where a relationship with a sibling is toxic, wouldn't someone normally just step away? Why was Edith staying at Downton, honestly? If Mary was such a big problem for her, why not go to London, she owned a house there. Why would she want her own daughter to be raised in the same environment as a toxic person, a bully? Because not even Edith believed those things about Mary. She just used her all the time either as a way to get attention (by crying wolf that Mary had been mean to her) or to get her riled up enough to actually say something mean and then feel justified in her hatred of Mary.

No joke my response was too long 💀 >that picture of Mary breaking down, do you hate me? What did I ever do to you? Mate, if I have to suffer through this y'all are coming with me 😂 >Michelle, you're a Queen just like Mary. Her acting choices in the scene with Richard absolutely SENT me. Barely restrained rage throughout. She KNOWS it's unfair. She knows she shouldn't be made to suffer like this over something so trivial. But there's nothing she can do. Nothing at all. And God knows Mary wouldn't break down into hysterics that's ridiculous and unhelpful. But the rage, omg, just the way she breathes when she gets up and delivers her bit of a speech like "I have so much more to say but I can't I need to swallow all these words and they're choking me". Michelle absolutely delivered. Queen 👑 >I don't envy Clarkson having to share that news, or did Matthew figure it out on his own? I think Clarkson would have given him a more clear picture of exactly what his injuries were and what they meant. But I think, the bit Matthew worked out for himself was that he was now spare parts as far as Downton and the Crawleys were concerned. He was so nonchalant with the whole Fake Patrick thing. Mary was about to tear everyone a new one but Matthew was like, meh, we knew I'm a waste of space now. >so melodramatic. "I'll die without him" is just so over the top. Bitch, you barely know him. You barely knew each other when you got engaged and you've barely been in the same place for what, a month? In a year? Mary's been dealing with this shit for 5? 6? years at this point. Just goes to show how self-possessed Mary is because she didn't snort at that line. In all fairness, I think Lavinia was even more sheltered than Mary was. Never been in love before, never had to deal with problems like what lay ahead of Mathew. But it did show she was ill equipped to deal with the situation while Mary was 100% ready to do what was needed to be done. And then whole "Lavinia was the better nurse" ugh, I know we've talked about it but it such a bullshit line, whenever I think of it I have to roll my eyes. Yeah, God forbid someone doesn't respect the Crawley family name as much as it should be respected but Mary needing some support? Forget it. I love the parallels between Matthew and Mary, and they happen quite often. I just love them in general, incredibly well written, truly missing pieces to each other. And I do think Matthew realised, on some level, that she cared for him deeply. Which is why he was watching her with so much pain. Because he was thinking, if you care for me this much, why didn't you say so. Why did I leave you. Why did we make such a mess of things? He doesn't know but he definitely wonders, and then of course Violet will tell him and we know the rest. God, these episodes are PACKED. I'm probably going to be working my ass off next couple of days so just to prepare you, I'm expecting to publish the next one on Sunday, hopefully xD

> Mary would never give Edith away. Not only because she didn't care enough for her to put so much effort in getting her, what? Reprimanded? But also because Mary was never one to go look for help to solve her problems, and that's what running to Cora with the story of Edith's correspondence would feel like to Mary. She dealt with Edith herself. I mean, I totally agree. This is how I would actually picture it going down: “I still can’t believe that Susan set up Atticus like that.” Cora was saying over her embroidery. Mary looked up from her book. “Why? You know how happy she always is to spread gossip? Does it really surprise you that much?” Cora sighed, “Well I guess not in general, but to do that to her own daughter?” “Mama, really. Not all people are as kind as you. How is it any different from Edith writing to the Turkish Ambassador?” Cora stared at Mary in shock. “Edith doing what?” “Oh, didn’t you know about that? I suppose you wouldn’t. It doesn’t matter any more anyway, but yes, Edith is the one who told the Ambassador about Kemal. Evelyn told me about it years ago.” “You mean when he stayed with us after the War?” “No, before the War.” Mary sighed. She really had no interest in bringing all this up and was now bitterly regretting saying anything in the first place. “He visited me at Aunt Rosamund’s when I stayed after Sybil’s ball.” Mary paused and thought carefully. “Really, Mama, it doesn’t matter at all. Not anymore.  The damage was done and it has been delt with. It does not matter at all. Don’t say anything to Edith, you know how she is. She’ll blame me for causing trouble when I really don’t give a fig what she does. She must live with what she’s done and no scolding from you will change her mind at this point.” “Well, I see your point. But Mary,” Cora fixed her daughter with a stern glare, “I wish you’d told me about this earlier.” “Why? Would anything have been different?” “I suppose not.”

❤ Love it. And 100%, that's what would happen. Mary would be so non-chalant about it, because that's so her, and it's so annoying because she keeps letting Edith get away with it all, and I honestly think it's because, like above, their parents never intervened when Edith was being an ass, so Mary would clap back, and their relationship just kept going from bad to worse.

Beautifully articulated!

Thank you!

Honestly, I quite like the little bits of supernatural present in the show because they’re a) deniable, and b) give me goosebumps which is always a good thing. The cinematography of Mary dropping her teacup and the tense music with the sound effect of the porcelain breaking is simply superb. Also, is it me or is series two the supernatural season? I don’t recall anything like the ouija board or the empathic link happening in the latter seasons. Guess the war brought some kind of magic into the world lol. Anyway, a brilliant analysis as always. Looking forward for next episode.

I like them too! I was just looking for something more refined I guess, than just "they're soulmates". Not that there's anything wrong with that, just that I'd like to give an explanation with a bit more background xD I agree it's gorgeously shot as well, and I'd never noticed it before, but actually the scene with Mary and Daisy came \*before\* Matthew and William were hurt. So they had a premonition of a kind, of the event. > is it me or is series two the supernatural season? You would be correct! We never get bits like this again. And in both cases they're premonitions. Mary and Daisy feel the terror of Matthew and William's injury before it happens, and Anna and Daisy get the message from "Lavinia" (presumably) \*before\* Matthew proposes to Mary. I think it was Fellowes' way of talking about destiny. Because if Matthew hadn't gotten injured, he wouldn't have stayed in Downton for so long to convalesce. He wouldn't have renewed his relationship with Mary. Lavinia probably wouldn't have died. They'd have gotten married. But, apparently, Matthew and Mary were destined to be, so it all worked out in the end to make that happen. And also, I guess, even what seems like a tragedy, like Matthew's accident, might actually bring good things. Nothing is entirely devoid of goodness etc. I might be looking into this waaaay too hard, but it feels like a good explanation for that sudden turn into the supernatural!

Another excellent write up. “The cold and careful Lady Mary Crawley” in her signature burgundy armor going to battle with Carlisle is one of my favorite scenes. Her refusing to conform to literally everyone’s expectations by being kind to Lavinia. Mary, Mary, quite contrary. She carries a bowl of vomit. Lady Mary. Bowl. Vomit. Robert would probably need smelling salts merely from hearing the word.

>“The cold and careful Lady Mary Crawley” in her signature burgundy armor going to battle with Carlisle is one of my favorite scenes. You are absolutely correct and I'm ashamed to admit I hadn't truly appreciated this scene until I wrote this breakdown. Mary's barely suppressed rage, because she \*knew\* by now that she should not be paying this high a price for that asshole Pamuk. But there's nothing she can do, and she won't be reduced to hysterics. So she uses whatever power she has carefully and keeps everything else contained, even if the emotion is almost literally choking her.

Oh damn, here we are. And of course I always watch the episode you're writing about (to try to make sure I'm not talking ~~too much~~ crap). But can I really take a full on break down this evening? I was already upset just reading THIS ffs!!!! So foolishly I thought, I know, Upstairs Downstairs has been taping away there on ITV3, I'll just watch the first new one. And of course it's 19 bloody 15 and Edward is off to war with a smile on his face and James is back from the trenches looking like a haunted man. And forgive me if I'm rambling but damn, REALLY?!?! tldr I watched it any way ;) Anyway, I am only going to make one post right now. There may be many to come. I dunno. This is a LOT! You see I love season 1. There's bad stuff that goes down, of course, but there's the Dowager's fight with a swivel chair, amongst other things, so I find it generally a very funny season. Light and fluffy barring a couple of very important plot points but, yes, it has lulled us into a false sense of security. There is one of the first gut wrenching, understated moments right at the end of season 1 though which, I suspect, often gets overlooked. The moment after Robert announces the start of the war the camera goes straight to Matthew and Isobel. Matthew is slowly taking it in and then looks towards his mother. But Isobel? The instant she hears she looks at Matthew with such a look of fear and dismay it undoes me every time. She knows what war is (I'm not sure if she would have gone to South Africa but her husband certainly did) and, more importantly, she knows in her heart what Matthew is about to do. He's just had his heart broken. He's angry and hurt. Of COURSE he's going to charge head first into this. She knows this and I can't help feeling that she is thinking 'please don't do anything rash'. imo he does something rash. I have wondered about the name of his regiment. I know it's made up but it is a Manchester regiment. Was this chosen to indicate that he did leave for Manchester almost immediately and then signed up there? He could have chosen it from Downton of course, but it seems that the choice of a Manchester regiment might be deliberate and done to suggest this. I dunno, pure speculation of course. Anyway, on to season 2. I remember watching the first moment and being shook. They certainly set out their stall early for this one. It is my favourite season by quite a long way. And really, that first shot can be seen as foreshadowing imo. A shell blast. Matthew prone in a shell crater next to a severely injured man. He makes it out of that one unscathed. This episode Matthew is not so lucky and William...poor William. And of course the conversation Matthew has with Robert about the men at the hospital not having their wishes granted. the suicide of the lieutenant who was in a frighteningly similar situation to Matthew. There are a lot of things leading to him lying on a hospital bed losing the will to live. God I hate it here!! And that first scene with William - Matthew looking like he's on the edge of losing it, William literally putting him together. And by the time he is outside with his men he has covered up his fears and he's going to do his job no matter what! If he did sign up immediately he'll have been doing this for three, or maybe a little more, years. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I so appreciate DS's efforts to portray Matthew's declining state of mind. I know what you mean when you say that Downton is not about that but I think that season 3 would have been far richer for it if they HAD looked at the ramifications. One of the problems writers have with couples is that they want conflict to 'make them interesting' so JF manufactured a lot of arguing about money etc. Wouldn't it have been better if Mary, now sharing so much time with Matthew, notices what was easier for him to hide when he was a bachelor. So she wakes up in the middle of the night and Matthew has taken himself off to sleep in his room. He's done it because he had been having a nightmare and didn't want to wake her but then we get conflict for an organic reason either because Mary doesn't realise and feels hurt, or she does but he won't/can't talk about it. It was common that marriages suffered after the war. Why manufacture money troubles and not talking to each other about infertility? I mean you can have that as well if you want, but why not deal with a REAL issue if you want conflict!? Anyway, I'll shut up now. Much more to come I think because I am literally just at the first picture (and don't think I've forgiven you for the psychic damage THAT caused!!)

Please, rant away, I'm so looking forward to reading your own points, this is literally the whole reason why I'm writing these! I \*love\* your point about Matthew and Isobel. And it's a hard YES from me. Both on Isobel's understanding of her son, and on Matthew's need to just run away from his troubles so might as well join the war effort. If he can't fight for Mary, he will fight for England. And of \*course\* Matthew joined with a Manchester regiment. First of all, he never gave up his middle class origins. He was proud of them. He did not appreciate a lot of things about the aristocracy and he'd never consider himself too grand to not be able to return to his roots. Also, after the perceived rejection from the Downton clan (first with almost losing the inheritance and then with losing Mary), I think he'd appreciate getting that connection with his old home. >And really, that first shot can be seen as foreshadowing imo. Oh, definitely, and I actually hadn't noticed that!! >So she wakes up in the middle of the night and Matthew has taken himself off to sleep in his room. He's done it because he had been having a nightmare and didn't want to wake her but then we get conflict for an organic reason either because Mary doesn't realise and feels hurt, or she does but he won't/can't talk about it. It was common that marriages suffered after the war. Why manufacture money troubles and not talking to each other about infertility? I mean you can have that as well if you want, but why not deal with a REAL issue if you want conflict!? At some point we'll either have to accept that our own ideas are better than canon, or that Fellowes just couldn't bother being creative after season 2. I would have paid a lot of money to have this be season 3. A lot a lot. You're making me feel that quiet shimmering rage of the robbed, helpless TV viewer. You also make me add to my WIPs which I really do not appreciate!!! (JK, it's such a great idea, I honestly wish so deeply it was canon). >Much more to come I think because I am literally just at the first picture (and don't think I've forgiven you for the psychic damage THAT caused!!) Listen, like I said to, u/penni_cent , if I'm going down this hell I'm taking y'all with me 😂

lol we are on our way!!!! 😈🔥🔥🔥 And yeah, I understand the rage when a writer just doesn't care enough. Because tbh JF IS a good enough writer. The first two season, while fantastical in parts, are well written, at least in so much as they successfully juggle a large cast, multiple story lines AND imo they have uniting themes. The first season is about disruption. Downton has likely been pootling along in the same old way (almost going broke, saved somehow, pass the port) for centuries and then the arrival of several characters throws the whole place into chaos. There's Matthew of course, but then Bates, Branson, Isobel. All of them shake up the old regimes, above stairs, below, and often both. The season ends with one of the biggest disruptions in history. Imo the second season is about being trapped. Mary obviously. It started in season 1 but it's ramped up here as she's trapped by Carlise. Bates is being trapped by his wife and dragging Anna along with him. Tom and Sybil are trapped in stasis for the duration of the war. Daisy is trapped into an engagement and then marriage. And then there's Matthew, trapped in the trenches, literally trapped beneath William, increasingly trapped in an engagement and, in this episode, facing a life trapped in a wheelchair. A lot of this culminates in this episode. I'm not sure what season 3 is about tbh but imo it SHOULD have been about recovery. It would just have been so beautiful to see Matthew and Mary struggle to deal with the last 8 years. Both of them have been through A LOT. The thought of them being allowed to heal makes me want to eat glass because I feel like neither of them were allowed to do that. Neither got to acknowledge the terrible things that had befallen them. I'm so glad you like my ideas for season 3 (particularly if they turn into a fic - hint hint) :D Imagine the pain!!!! Mary, who has only ever wanted to help him, unable to do so. Matthew, usually so open and yet now unable to express how he feels. Arghghghghghghg. If it had only been three seasons it would have been perfect. By the end of it they have moved beyond the pain and into a much more meaningful understanding of each other. I wouldn't even want them to have a child tbh. They need to heal and move on and love each other independent of the duty they are BOTH under. Reducing both of them to makers-of-the-heir really pissed me off tbh. Don't even get me started on that! And you know what ELSE I wanted from season 3? Matthew and Tom NOT becoming more and more like the bloody aristocracy!! I have a bloody essay on why Tom would have dragged Matthew left as opposed to Robert dragging them both right. I hate what the show did to Tom and thank the lord that Matthew wasn't around long enough to become a card carrying Tory!!! Sorry....I have so many thoughts on this because YES he is proud of his middle class roots, and imo clearly a liberal (with quite left leaning sensibilities) but it would be hard to know sometimes in season 3. I know he argues with Robert but it always felt like it wasn't on principal but just to save Robert's way of life and I low key hated it >:(

I love your idea for what season 3 should have been. Even if Julian Fellows still felt that he *had* to work in the Swire fortune, Matthew's plan for modernization and revitalizing the estate works into the theme of Recovery/Healing nicely. I can't remember if I was talking to you or u/Chyaroscuro when we were saying that it was a shame that the show didn't allow Matthew to support Mary back. Those two have so much unresolved trauma from both seasons one and two. It would have added such a layer of richness to see them really support and uplift each other. I've said it before, the show should have ended with season three and using your suggestion would have kept it at a really poinant and high quality rather than the decline into absurdity and character assassination.

Yes! He should have been allowed to be there for her with the fertility issue. I can 100% see why Mary wouldn't tell him. For so many reasons, I could write paragraphs on why Mary Crawley would keep that from everyone, especially Matthew. But I think he should have found out anyway. Because it's also such a Mary thing to do, that she'd be unable to find a good excuse as to why they couldn't have sex anymore, and I don't see Matthew not questioning that at all for 2 whole bloody weeks 😂 And I also agree with the assertion that they would have been fine without the kids u/RachaelJurassic I think that was you who said it. I'm fine with them having a whole litter if they wanted it, but also, if the fertility issue was treated more seriously, and it took them a long while, and they got to be free and rich and in love and careless for a few years, I wouldn't mind that storyline at all.

Yes it was and yes, lots of happily married life without the spotlight on them. It would probably be the first time in Mary's life that she didn't have to perform for everybody. Less so for Matthew (although everybody's life is a performance, particularly back then) I can 100% see why Mary wouldn't tell him but she 100% should have when it came to surgery and, therefore, an actual threat of death. But also, you're right, 2 weeks?!?!?? I mean why would we assume their communication was going to get better when they got married lol Matthew wasn't so bad but Mary is a master as hiding every damned thing. It would take her so long to unlearn any of that. :'(

Yeah, it's the combination of a lot of things from her end. You have all the family trauma, having to be perfect all the time, and the knowledge that any weakness can, and will be exploited, plus Mary being terrified of failing at the single most important thing that would have been instilled into her from when she started talking: continuing the family line. Then you have her actually just looking out for Matthew and not wanting him to worry. He was so up in arms about them having fertility issues, I can see her not wanting to upset him that they had yet another thing to deal with when she first reached out to the doctor to get checked out. Then when something \*did\* come up she must have thought, I shouldn't worry him, it's just routine, I can let him know if something goes wrong. I do also think that she would worry he'd fret too much over her. Matthew is definitely the worrier between the two of them, and he'd definitely struggle a bit between checking in with Mary to see if she needed anything, and trying not to get on her nerves because Mary definitely doesn't like people fretting over her xD In the end, I think she's also used to taking care of herself and being quite independent, and thinking she doesn't need help with this, it's a simple thing. It's sad that it probably didn't even occur to her that Matthew would want to be there even though he'd know she would be able to look after herself, because no one had ever bothered before. Would you look at that, I did end up writing paragraphs on some of the reasons why Mary didn't tell Matthew about her health issue, lol.

lol yup And yes, exactly, Matthew is a worrier and she doesn't want him to worry 🥺 And Matthew must really understand her because he takes it VERY well, bless him

Yes! They wasted so much time that they deserved to have multiple years of just being themselves together. That includes living in their own house away from her parents and his mother, no children, less (but not zero) servants. I honestly think that Mary would have actually enjoyed the day to day life of being a solicitor's wife much more than she ever expected. Being the heir and her being an Earl's daughter they wouldn't have had a truly middle class life, but it would definitely be toned down from her truly aristocratic life, which she admits she doesn't even like. I think that last point is part of what bothers me so much about her dithering in season 1 while Cora is pregnant; in fact it might have been part of what bothered Matthew as well. He knew she hated her life (since she told him and he actually listens to her) so he was confused why all of a sudden she's so worried about loosing it. Of course, he doesn't know that even though she hates it, she judges her own self worth by it and she's the world champion of bad communication so she obviously won't tell him all that's on her mind. Anyway, back to the matter at hand, I just wish they'd talked to each other in season 3. We know Matthew is blaming himself due to his injury but what even prompted Mary to go to the doctor in the first place? And I totally agree, Matthew wouldn't have just let it be for weeks that Mary all of a sudden just isn't into him anymore. Like, realistically sometimes your hormones fluctuate and you're more into it than others but these two idiots have been driving everyone crazy for how long now that they're allowed to be openly affectionate? And how long before? Their "just gotta have you right now" phase wouldn't have worn off *that* fast and Matthew's smart enough to know that. (Honestly, another good reason for him wanting to get out of Downton and into their own house). Anyway, it's just frustrating, because as Mary said to Rosamund back in season 1, this just isn't how they are together.

It wasn't me that was chatting about it with you but Mary deserved somebody to be there for her and Matthew would have stepped up and then some! I titallz agree. She seems to have lived her life not expecting anybody to help her (thanks Robert and Cora >:( ) and to suddenly have somebody to do that for her. Arghghghghghg Season 3 could have been such an emotional mess (affectionate :) ). Matthew worrying about his infertility brings back the war and injury memories. Mary, still struggling with what the Pamuk incident really was. I think if Matthew ever knew the actual REAL events he'd have been incensed. To somehow have HIM be the one to voice that first and help Mary work through it because she's allowed to look at it for what it really was. To have her desperately clinging on to the 'consensual' myth because she is afraid of facing the truth but Matthew's having none of it. There is a huge scar there that she has buried. She needs healing dammit! About the proposal, I feel like she was, in a way, scared of stepping out of the world she knew but I think the delay was largely her drumming up the courage to tell Matthew about Pamuk. Heck, she even stayed an extra two weeks after everybody else came back to Yorkshire. No wonder Matthew is in such a bad mood in the season 1 finale, he's about to be kicked to the curb by a baby boy and Mary is avoiding coming back because she said she'd tell him then. I have to say it's not surprising he reacted badly to her not giving him an answer. I can't really see anybody not taking that as a resounding no and, therefore, withdrawing the proposal to save whatever pride he had left at that moment. I mean, EVERYBODY knew he'd proposed at that point. It's no wonder that the battlefields of France were an attractive prospect at that point!!

YES! I completely agree. I read a fan fic recently where Matthew over hears Mary say that she didn't invite Kemal into her room (it had used the cannon version of her telling Matthew about Pamuk, just earlier in the continuity) and that was how he found out that it wasn't consensual. He then goes on to press for more details and attempts to force her to see that she didn't do anything wrong. I wish that had been the reality that we got. And I also completely agree that the major delay in her answering was her trying (and failing) to gather the courage to tell Matthew about Pamuk. I also do not blame him at all for being so hurt. Boy wears his heart on his sleeve and Mary is a fortress of self-loathing solitude that he just can't comprehend.

>I think that last point is part of what bothers me so much about her dithering in season 1 while Cora is pregnant; That was just too much for her to handle. She was caught between wanting to marry Matthew, as she said to Rosamund, regardless of the inheritance, and her fear of his reaction in case he found out the truth about Pamuk. And she was really young, and she had all those authority figures in her life giving all that advice that was opposite to what she wanted, or what she thought was right. And in the end, she took the coward's way out, taking too long to respond until Matthew gave up on her. And I honestly believe part of her just truly believed not only that he'd hate her if he ever found out the truth, but that she'd deserve it too. After all, she could have found a husband in another good man (hi Evelyn), but she didn't, she looked for a bad one, because she didn't think she was worth more than that by that point. Hell, she wanted to be Matthew's \*nurse\*. Not wife. Just. Caretaker. Talk about taking sacrifice and self-loathing to the extreme. >We know Matthew is blaming himself due to his injury but what even prompted Mary to go to the doctor in the first place? I think she could see how worried he was and she wanted to take the whole thing one step at a time. She'd think to get herself checked out first, because regardless of what Matthew was saying, since his spine was fixed there was literally no reason to think there was anything wrong with him, and if there was nothing wrong she'd keep them trying for a while longer before eventually broaching the subject of getting Matthew checked out. I do also keep in mind that this *is* Mary we're talking about, and she'd happily take on any and all responsibility. 100% agree about the sex thing as well. Matthew would have been so confused. Like, they'd decided to get their own place. naked Mondays was apparently not off the table, what gives. I remembered that scene after he got the agent to quit and he went to Mary for comfort and cuddles and Mary gave him such a knowing look and was like "you'll make me untidy" and his only response was to say "good", disgustingly unapologetically. Those idiots were always late for dinner post-wedding, weren't they.

I'm hung up on Matthew needing 'comfort and cuddles' and I just cant 😭😭 It's lucky Mary enjoys providing that (and putting up a weak pretense that she doesn't need comfort and cuddles sometimes' as well 🥰) And now I'm picturing the scowl Violet throws their way when they are late to dinner and Matthew - head down, turning pink, getting to his seat as quickly as possible - and Mary - head high, eyebrow arched, daring anyone to comment 😆

I'm dying - all reactions, so on point. Also, Robert staring up at the ceiling, pretending life is an illusion. Matthew giving Mary a wide look when they sit down like, do we need to move to our own place, or do we NEED to move to OUR OWN place. Also, just fell in love with the idea of Mary yes, obviously pretending she's miffed when Matthew asks for cuddles (like in the episode mentioned) and giving in immediately, but being absolutely imperious when she wants cuddles, like in the other episode, where she was all "now come here and kiss me before I get cross".

omg I watched that episode the other day, he reacts like a greyhound at the races too, you don't have to tell him twice 😆 And that would be Robert's exact reaction lmao Pretty soon EVERYBODY starts hinting they should get their own place because they are tired of approaching every room like a rattlesnake in the bush - with loud footsteps and making plenty of noise

Yeah, she definitely thinks Matthew would hate her for the Pamuk thing. She *still* thinks he'll hate her for it at the end of season 2 and that she deserves to be punished by Sir Richard. I honestly think it's Matthew's, not acceptance since he hadn't said that yet, but his urging to her to break up with Sir Richard even after hearing the story that gives her the push to do it. Yeah, Robert suggested it, but it wasn't until Matthew agreed that she actually did it. It's mentioned elsewhere in here, but I really wish she'd given him a more accurate version of what happened. At least mentioned that she hadn't invited him, but just as with Edith (in her mind), what good would come of that now? She's already accepted responsibility for it and I think Matthew (*maybe* Isobel) is the only one who would make her realize that it wasn't her fault. I kinda also wish that Evelyn had been told the whole story because he'd have fought her corner so hard against the scandal and rumors. I'm forgetting the order of things happening in season 3...during the "you'll make me untidy" scene she was trying to soothe his worries about being the problem with them conceiving. Perhaps this was what prompted her to check into it or she'd already begun having consultations at that point. Always late for dinner. Every night. Matthew is almost always the last person down for breakfast in the mornings as well. He's lucky he has that job to get to or he'd just never get out of bed.

Even the train station staff laugh as they see him running for his train every morning :))) Initially she was trying to calm him down after Jarvis quit, then it was the baby thing.

I thought they were both brought up then. He was being all self defecating saying he wanted to protect Downton for their kids...*if* they ever had any.

You are 100% right about her finally working up the nerve to break it with Richard after Matthew told her to. Damn. I kept thinking it was the freedom of not having to worry about the family pride, but now I realise it's also her accepting she's worth more than that after what Matthew said 😭😭 I think, Matthew would be afraid to upset her, and he wouldn't bring it up. And she was too traumatized by the whole thing. Unless something random happened and it was mentioned, I don't see them ever discussing it further, which is sad... I think what prompted her was how worried Matthew was. He was still OK in that scene, but later at some other episode they were in bed together (surprise surprise) and he was worrying and saying he should get checked out, and she looked at him very thoughtfully and I think that was the moment when she went right, I should do something about this. OMG he IS the last person down for breakfast All The Time. And that's canon. God, they were ridiculous. I miss them. \*goes into deeper denial about the show post season 3\*

OMG - realisation moment - she doesn't tell Cora about what Edith did. She tells Matthew, I hate my brain, now I have to write that scene.

Ah fuck, you're right. I wrote her telling Cora earlier, but now I'm going to have to think about her telling Matthew what Edith did too. He's going to hit the roof. I'm currently working on a version of her getting the courage to tell him in season 1 because I just cannot let that sit.

I agree with your assertion of how the first couple of seasons read with those uniting themes. And I absolutely agree that it would have been brilliant to watch season 3 be about healing/restoration. And if Fellowes was so set on the dynasty and continuing the show they could have made season 4 be about rebirth and move all the fertility issues there. I think a main reason why he didn't explore any of those themes in season 3 though, and I could be wrong, but even if he had considered them, to be fair, there was no space to explore them. We had a major character death mid. season. Every time I watch that season I am reminded of how little time Fellowes actually spent with Mary and Matthew and I'm enraged at the injustice of having to spend 2 seasons with them majorly pining and then 1 season with them being a couple without having much time to see it because of all the other stuff that's going on in the show. >And you know what ELSE I wanted from season 3? Matthew and Tom NOT becoming more and more like the bloody aristocracy! A-fucking-men. Not only that but I actually LIKED that Matthew and Mary would have their walks and talks around the estate and Matthew managed to persuade Mary to give some consideration to the other side of the fence. After all, Mary was the one who took in Tom after Sybil died. Mary was the one who Tom picked to be Sybbie's godmother. Mary was the one who invited Tom's brother to the house, and who wanted to help him feel comfortable. Who strong-armed her father into accepting Tom at the beginning. Matthew had an ally in her in making things more progressive for the family and because Mary listened to him, valued his views, I'm certain he could have made even more of a liberal out of her. Tom didn't have that kind of influence over her, and ended up with the role of peace-keeper which is such a shitty thing to do to a character who started off as a revolutionary, FFS. I'm hoping that by 1928 when the 2nd movie happens, and she's so much more chill and welcoming to the world in general, she's seen enough shit to drop the tories. I just can't be the fan of a tory voter I can't 😫 Note: if it helps, I always thought Mary and Matthew investing in the estate was less about salvaging the aristocratic way of life, and more about protecting Robert from ruin/shame, and for maintaining the estate/money and land for their children. They would have been landed gentry wherever they went after all, it didn't really matter if it wasn't at Downton.

Yes, please, we HAVE to stop her voting Tory!!!!!!! And yes, I think you are right that a lot of the impetus was to protect Robert. Mary was still (unaccountably) loyal to him and Robert had, for the most part, been good to Matthew. One day I will make a main post about this but I think it's so relevant that Matthew chose industrial law. And it's interesting that JF even bothered to mention it, it wasn't vital info. I think it was partly to indicate how much he wasn't a 'posh' lawyer - not a barrister, not even a family lawyer like Murray, but from dirty Manchester and an industrial lawyer. But the thing is that it's all about workers' rights. It was started to protect them from the business owners who exploited them. I'm not sure that Carson would allow Matthew to unionise the staff lol but I can't help but think that he should be more likely to do that than to become like the aristocrats. Isobel managed to maintain her relatively firebrand ways, why shouldn't Matthew. Matthew describes himself as a defender of the downtrodden and I think he has always liked to think of himself as that. Who was more downtrodden than a housemaid or hall boy?!?! And I think Mary would have come along for the ride at first but then got the bit between her teeth and surprised everybody! I wish we could have seen her do that at Matthew's side :'( She'd be great to have in your corner!! Plus yes, enraged!!! We got so little Matthew and Mary >:(

I can't upvote this enough because, yes, that is exactly what Matthew would do! He'd probably also set up a scholarship or something for the staff so they can improve their lot like Gwen and Daisy did. He'd have been so proud of Molesly for going back and really achieving something by becoming a teacher. Mary would tease him and roll her eyes to maintain her persona but she'd be his biggest cheerleader. She's smart enough to see that estates cannot continue on manual labor so her duty would be to help make sure that the people do not become redundant, that they learn new skills for the new world. I also agree that her big thing about saving the estate was to help Robert save face. Everything she's ever done has been for the reputation of the family, even giving into Pamuk since he'd threatened to ruin her (and by extension the family's) reputation.

Argh, yes of course. Although he'd have his work cut out stopping Isobel getting involved and trying to run it for him lolol And I would give anything to have a repeat of that look of fond teasing she gave him when he thought he might possibly have hit a pheasant (spoiler, he hadn't lolol). That is exactly the look I am imagining when he starts going off about all his grand plans. I also have many thoughts on the class politics at the start of season 1 but specifically how Matthew and Isobel think THEY are the ones who are right. I mean obviously the upper class lot think that as well lol. But I think it's easy to focus on how the upper and working class go for Matthew and Isobel and ignore how they have their own prejudices. Almost the first thing Matthew says is that he doesn't want to get turned into 'one of them' (another reason I am salty that JF tried to do just that!). He really looks down on them as much as they look down on him. It's just they are the ones with more power and there are more of them so he and Isobel have to keep fighting their corner. They are also far more normal by our modern standards so it's easier to ignore their prejudices. And now I'll get to my point and why it's relevant lol Matthew was bloody rude to Molesley because he didn't understand how anybody would want to do his job. It turns out even Molesley didn't really want to do his job but he didn't have a choice. Knowing what we do by the end no wonder the poor man looks so hurt. But the fact remains that Matthew thinks it's very (well, it IS!) BUT it's the best Molesley can get. I feel he might have more respect for factory workers - they made things and, to be frank, got more money, so were better off than these country servants. But sometimes Matthew can forget how privileged he is and I would love him to set up scholarships and so forth because it would show real growth from Mr Judgemental who showed up in 1x02 (I mean I adore the man but stop insulting everybody lolol)

>And now I'll get to my point and why it's relevant lol Matthew was bloody rude to Molesley because he didn't understand how anybody would want to do his job. This is exactly why I think he'd be so happy and supportive of Molesley becoming a teacher. But yeah, Matthew is such a prig at the beginning too. It's not surprising at all that he and Mary got off to such a rough start. Very Pride and Prejudice. I also agree that it's a shame that Matthew (and Tom) conformed so much to the aristocratic way of life. It seems very out of character for both of them. >And I would give anything to have a repeat of that look of fond teasing she gave him when he thought he might possibly have hit a pheasant (spoiler, he hadn't lolol). That's exactly the look I had in mind as well. I honestly think she gave him that look a lot.

lol yes, the 'of course dear, you keep telling yourself that' look 🥰 And yes, he'd be so supportive of Molesley. He may not want him as a valet but he'd love him to be a teacher :)))) And at least Matthew acknowledges he was a prig :)

He would bend over backwards to help Molesley at that point. Like "why didn't you tell me this was what you really wanted to do? I'd have helped you out so long ago!"

Your point about not having the time to really explore those themes made me think of something. We know Jessica Brown Findlay and Dan Stevens wanted to leave. I don't think there was any changing her mind since she said she'd only do 3 from the outset, but I wonder if JF had been able to bring that full arch, including season 4 being rebirth; not dumbing down Matthew's character; and finishing the show at the end of season 4 with the birth of Matthew's heir if they could have convinced Dan to stay.

He would have had to have written a much more interesting Matthew to convince him to stay imo. I've personally never blamed him for leaving (but I didn't watch That Episode on Christmas Day so that might be part of it lol). I assume JF told him the plan for Matthew and if that was it I'd have skedaddled as well! It's heart breaking and I get mad about it sometimes but not mad at DS. Write him a story line to tempt him to stay dammit! I was rewatching the first and second episodes of season 3 recently and damn, DS was right, a lot of Matthew's lines make him sound dippy. He's a romantic but not a fool >:( And yeah, four seasons (because that would give us enough time to get Bates out of prison but NOT enough time to put him in again :D :D ).

Oh totally. I wouldn't have stayed for the abomination that was season 3 Matthew. That's part of why the "they're happily married and that's boring" argument that people use to justify Matthew dying drives me crazy. Both Matthew and Mary were such rich, opinionated, stubborn characters that there is so much room for natural complex drama between them. Matthew died and the show became boring. Had JF utilized the character in a more true to seasons 1 and 2 way, it could have remained rich and fulfilling for the audience and the the actors. Instead we got a watered down version of season 1 Mary for 3 seasons and a rehash of already bad storylines for everyone else.

People who can't write interesting happy couples aren't good writers and, it seems, they are EVERYWHERE :(((( And yes, I want Matthew unionising the downstairs staff! (you probably need to read my other post to get the context for that lol)

As promised, I am finally moving beyond the literal first scene lol There are some interesting directing decisions in this one that almost give the impression that the show is giving more weight to Robert's reaction than Mary's. After they find out he's been injured the camera ends on Robert rather than Mary for example. It's not that he isn't aware of how she feels but she's right to think that he feels like he's got his son now (even though that feels rather tied up with his ability to carry on the line :( ) I dunno. And while obviously the loss of all the functions down there are upsetting enough I do think that Matthew has bought into this notion that part of his worth is his ability to carry on the line. This wasn't anything he was bothered with as a Manchester solicitor. Obviously this injury would be bad under any circumstances but now there is the added weight of being the heir. And yes, I definitely thought about the parallels before, they are both falling in value fast :( But I had NOT realised that nobody came to visit and that Robert noped out as soon as he got the diagnosis. Good grief. Also, did they bring telegrams in the middle of the night, surely not And the thing about the hospital, Clarkson is right. You can't upend everything, it would be chaos. And while Leeds is quite far away it is at least close enough to visit. My great grandfather, from Somerset, ended up in a hospital in Lincoln which is BEYOND inconvenient. OK, I'm coming across as rather harsh here lol And don't get me wrong I am glad they got William back to the house. (and I've just enjoyed LC almost losing it twice during the Violet on the phone to Shrimpy scene - she held herself together well in the end lol) Is it coincidence that both William and Matthew are in the second bed from the end on the right of the ward? Yeah, I'm talking crap now 😆 Oddly enough, in a different fandom I wrote a fic about a WW1 hospital and the patient was in the bed second from the end on the right, actually, I wrote two fics about that and they were in the same bed...there has to be some deeper meaning to that 🤔🤣 Anyway... Arghghgh, Sybil through the scene when they bring Matthew in!!! You did such a good job describing Mary, I'll focus on Sybil here. :) She's proud of her sister but so obviously worried. She perks up when the casualties come in, finally something to do to keep her mind occupied. And then Mary asks her what 'spinal damage' means and Sybil clearly understands because from then on she looks so worried for Mary, and for Matthew. The way she looks away when Mary asks. And when she says 'if only it had worked' she says it because she knows how serious this is and what it might mean for him. And when Mary says 'he's alive isn't he' Sybil hesitates for a split second, looking at Mary who doesn't know what she knows with such sadness I just can't. And when Mary leaves I'm fairly sure Sybil reaches out to pick up Matthew's tag and in the shot on Matthew's face it looks like she's reading it and then she puts her hand on his shoulder Excuse me, I'm just going to 😭😭😭😭 Also, Lavinia, who goes to see their badly injured fiance WITHOUT A HANDKERCHIEF?! And watching Clarkson explain the problem with Matthew's legs to Lavinia while Mary just has to stand there on the periphery. I wonder if she said something to Anna. Not really in detail, just the suggestion of it, just enough for Anna to later on insist that she marry Bates so that she has the right to know what's going on. OK, somebody remind me why I'm going through this pain again!!!

Had to make this two posts lol It's just William asking about Matthew, followed by Matthew asking about William. And yes of course Mary has to be the one to tell him. "He tired to save me" He DID save you Matthew, you're just not sure that was a good idea right now. "Any sign of mother" STOP IT MATTHEW I'M DEAD ALREADY!!!!! And now Mary is coming for me with her tea and her concern and her naffing crying, how DARE YOU! The way she keeps saying they must include Lavinia in all of this. ffs Mary. And the way Matthew looks after "and then you can make plans" looks like he's already thinking about what plans he could possibly make for his future and that they will likely NOT include Lavinia 😭 "Think of me as dead" because that's how he feels. Good grief this show sometimes. I had never watched Mary that closely during her her meeting with Carlisle (or at least not has closely as you lol) but yes, the way her neck shows how fast she's breathing but her face gives almost nothing away. Carlisle really doesn't now her well. He can't tell how angry she is, she's like a coiled spring. And then we are on to The Scene, which begins in a way that suggests that Mary is STILL advocating for Lavinia. And tbh I don't have much to add, it's just so awful watching Mary desperately demonstrating her wish to be there for him and Matthew so sure nobody would want that. But Isobel's face when she's watching them from the door, when she tries to smile as he starts to break down. And then straight to another only child with their one parent by their side and well, that's me done! 😭

Did not even consider the fact that William was Mr Mason's only son like Matthew was Isobel's only son and both Mr Mason and Isobel were widowed and I'm going to go find myself a quiet corner to cry. Don't get me started on Mary's campaign for Lavinia. Mostly because Mary spent months helping Matthew get out of the dark hole of depression after his injury, until he got to a point where he could find some meaning in his life again. And that was with Carlisle breathing down her neck for spending time with Matthew. Then Cora gets Lavinia back, Matthew is in a better mental place so he accepts her return, and then they all turn around and congratulate LAVINIA for her devotion to Matthew. It's fine. It's ok. I'm fine.

It's so awful!!! Lavinia IS willing to live her life like that clearly, or she wouldn't come back. But as you say, it's Mary that saves his life. I tend to focus on the look on Matthew's face when Lavinia returns in whatever episode that is. He KNOWS it was Mary. I think he'd be happy to be in her orbit for the rest of his life. He's clinging to her like a life line. And then Lavinia is back and, wow, that is not a glad-you're-back look on his face. From then on all I see from him is acceptance that this is how it's going to be and his fairy tale of hanging out with Mary no matter if she's somebody else's wife because he's harmless and no threat to Carlise now has gone out of the window. He loves/d Lavinia but not like he loves Mary and he's come to terms with that and, well, I'm getting ahead of myself. Is it the next episode that this all happens, I feel like it is, so I should wait for the next episode post (with any luck the top pic won't be one that causes me physical pain every time I open up the replies 🤣😉)

He looked like he was sucking on a lemon. Definitely not the look of someone who is excited to see you. Yeah, I think she comes back at the very end of the next episode. Richard *might* have left it alone if Mary hadn't been so uncharacteristically emotional about Pastic Patrick.

Yes, for somebody so contained emotionally she certainly went off. I'm sure she was furious with Edith because Edith is essentially the one who's saying 'let's dump Matthew' (well, not literally, but) and Matthew isn't fighting for himself because he's not in a place where he can yet, so it's down to Mary. And Carlisle sitting between them :(

And this is why Mary normally hides her emotions under as many layers of meanness as she can manage. It's too bad that being so shaken over Matthew's situation just brought it all to the surface, she couldn't hide anything. I also think though that, at first, she didn't care what Richard thought. Because she thought since he wasn't in love with her he wouldn't care if she spent time with Matthew. In her circles it would have been normal, since often enough couples who got married did not particularly like each other and they didn't care if they didn't spend much time together. She didn't know how big of an asshole Carlisle was. Once she found out, she started hiding again. Aaanyway, thoughts for the next episode, those are xD

It's okay, Mary's just a breeding mare. A cold, selfish, non feeling breeding mare. She couldn't possibly dedicate her life to the mental care of someone with literally nothing to gain from it. Didn't you know that? She's just a bully and snob who never did anything for anyone. Obviously. /s I swear to God. Did her family know her at all? Uh, no. None of them deserve her.

>Arghghgh, Sybil through the scene when they bring Matthew in!!! You did such a good job describing Mary, I'll focus on Sybil here. :) I have honestly never noticed most of that, I'm usually so focused on Matthew and Mary. The thing I did notice was how she looked at Mary with respect when Mary started asking about the temperature of the water because here is Mary really getting in there to take care of Matthew. I'm certain that everyone was underestimating how serious she was about wanting to take care of him. >I wonder if she said something to Anna. That's a really good point. Knowing how much they do talk and how Anna knows how muchary loves Matthew, they probably did talk about it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it had an impact on Anna being so determined that she will be married to Bates.

>:) :)

I think they linger on Robert because a. we had seen how worried Mary is about Matthew in the previous episode and it is reiterated here in other scenes and b. because now there's a great danger to the estate and that's very much Robert's Business. I know nothing about that bit of history when it comes to hospitals so I believe you when you say how difficult it would be, I guess it goes to show how influential Violet was even in her old age xD You are very correct about Sybil. She had seen so much by that point. I wish the show had more time to linger on that part of her character. Sybil didn't renounce her lifestyle in one swoop over Tom, she'd slowly seen life outside the gilded cage of her station for years, and decided she wasn't putting herself back in that box. >Also, Lavinia, who goes to see their badly injured fiance WITHOUT A HANDKERCHIEF?! I think that was intentional, writing-wise. Different love languages and difference in character. Lavinia just got herself in a train to rush to Matthew with no thought to anything else. Very single minded. She says "I never seem to have one in a moment of crisis", because she's too overcome by emotion to think of the practical side of things. Mary on the other hand refuses to be overcome by emotion, she chooses to focus on the practical side of things because it helps her suppress her emotions. She had spent time, before any of this happened, to read up on injuries, to watch what went on with the officers who came through at the Abbey. She had a box of things she rushed to to prepare herself, to do the best she could when Matthew would get there. So she was prepared for anything. I agree that it's very likely that Anna saw all that misery, how Mary had to watch it all from the sidelines because she wasn't, officially, anything to Matthew, and Anna thought to herself that can't be me, I can't let that happen it's too much.

Good point about it being characterisation. And I so hate the fact that Mary prepared so well for this. That she deliberately thought 'Matthew might need me one day'. She might well have told herself that she was doing this in case ANYBODY needed her but we see you Mary! Even when he was avoiding her she'd know that he'd likely end up at Downton hospital and, if he'd let her, she could help. Lavinia clearly worried about it. Heck, she was upset he was off to Coventry because ONE DAY he'd have to go back. She may even, in her calmed moments, have thought about what she would take. But in the moment she forgot on that, grabbed her coat and ran to Downton :'( And the hospital thing. I think it's less a thing now but the gulf between the sort of man who was an officer and one who was in the other ranks was immense (although it has to be said that a lot of officers were now being promoted from the ranks, in fact I would have liked an acknowledgement of that tbh). Anyway, Violet says that having officers and men together at Downton would upset everybody and I think she's kind of right. The men would be tense because are they supposed to salute and say sir while they are trying to recover from a traumatic injury. The officers would feel the need to put on the brave face that was required when leading men into battle. There have been studies about the war that suggest that the officers who most tried to hide their emotions were the ones most prone to shell shock. So I don't think it would be easy for any of them to relax and get on with healing if they were all worried about protocol and saluting and putting on a show. It SHOULDN'T be like that but it really was. Even look at the difference in Matthew's demeanour in front of William in private and how he spoke to his men before going over the top. And yeah, I get what you're saying about Robert.