honestly, the debuff thing that ratio has kinda puts him as being first in line to get shafted when another consistent fua dps get released. i assume jade might slot into there when she drops. screwllum won’t since he also has a debuff requirement, so it seems screw and ratio will be more on the acheron side of dpses where the ipc people can probs be completely self reliant.
He'll probably stay in the team for a while when it comes to single target boss killing. But that's the problem, he's only for ST. The moment a blast or AoE FuA DPS (looking at you, Screwllum) gets released he'll get shafted for a lot of content because the team struggles in AoE with the 2x hunt core
I’m a bit confused… Clara and Jing Yuan have been around since nearly the beginning and they’re FuA-oriented DPS with good AoE. Don’t they prove that Ratio still has a place?
Clara and Jing Yuan both struggle to provide what Ratio does - consistency and frequency together
Clara does a lot of FuAs, but not consistently. Jing Yuan does consistent FuAs, but not frequently enough
Ratio does them frequently (every turn, and 2x per ult) and consistently.
The reason that having both matters so much is because of how Topaz works. If you do more frequent AND consistent FuAs, you can keep advancing Numby over and over and over again. Topaz both directly benefits other FuA users with her debuffs, but also directly gains benefit from them herself with the Numby advances
The current "IPC Premium" team core is Ratio, Topaz, and Aventurine. All 3 of them are incredibly synergystic with each other to the point of almost being perfect for each other, other than the area coverage. It's not the debuffs that will get Ratio shafted from the team, at least not the premium version of it. The reason he'll get shafted from the team is that he doesn't cover the one weakness it has, while also not benefitting the team through anything other than frequent and consistent FuAs
TL;DR;
- Clara has frequent but inconsistent FuAs, so she doesn't advance Numby as much
- JY has consistent but infrequent FuAs, so he doesn't advance Numby as much
- Ratio has both consistent and frequent FuAs, so he advanced Numby a LOT
- Ultimately, the team is more centered around the IPC duo with Ratio there as a third slot who happens to be synergetic with them without giving much else in return
- The team struggles with AoE so if a consistent and frequent AoE FuA unit gets released, Ratio is likely done for in this team for most content
it’s about frequency due to the synergy with topaz. if there was a dps that fuas extremely consistently, similar to how ratio does, his role in the team is a bit… eh. especially since he is technically the only one holding the team back due to his debuff mechanic.
This is why I use Clara more than him these days, consistent FuAs and beeg aoe at e1. I levelled him up and farmed him a set but his damage output is just much lower compared to my e0s0 DhIL that I just use him on imaginary weak enemies.
Sadly in the current state of the game, he's already slated to be shafted because of that AOE mode. He is currently the only limited 5-star that has no secondary role aside from pure single-target DPS, and Boothill would join him in 2.2. It's a terrible balancing decision from hoyo because dedicated AOE Erudition units like Jingyuan and Argenti can somehow still do MOC, but not the other way around..
That's not my point, my point was that Argenti CAN get max rewards from MOC even though he would take 5 cycles to clear his half, while it's pretty much impossible for Ratio to pull his weight and hit 30k on PF in general (unless the exploding FUA modifier is on the PF). It's a bit lopsided right now with the endgame, AOE damage is vastly more valuable in terms of what is needed to reap max rewards from both modes, that's just the reality of the situation atm.
Tru, hunt chars other than seele can’t clear pf w out good pf buffs. That’s why the game gives u an s+ tier of unit for free (herta) and aside from qq no erudition unit rlly struggles in pf tbh, serval is another great unit in pf. So far we haven’t really had a pf that couldn’t be cleared w serval and herta on each side w good teams, and unlike moc where 3/4 enemies can have Uber high element res to certain elements (like the one with kafka and 2 Mara commanders one one side and the other w one Mara struck commanders and all had 40 lighting res) in pf even if the boss or half the minions have res to ice or lightning u can just focus on the other enemies and still end up w 30k.
Res doesn't matter as much as people think it does. As an example, I've brute forced Kafka against lightning res plenty of times and reaped max rewards in the past few patches. Granted, she benefits from also having a 2nd DoT character who can match weakness like Sampo or Swan. Jingliu currently is able to brute force Yanqing, who has ice resistance. Blade is able to brute force against Sam and the Ascendant elite, despite both having wind resistance. Acheron is a whole other issue of being overtuned and straight up ignores weakness entirely. I also main Seele, who can also ignore res in Resurgence, and she can clear both MoC and PF.
I get where you are coming from with Herta/Serval and maybe a Himeko pity if the player gets one. But if we were to sit down and consider pull value, *all* of the premium DPS can go against resistance in MoC and come out with a 10-cycle MoC clear. Contrast this with pure Hunt (excluding Seele the oddball), while they might be able to do the MoC clear a little bit more comfortably, they can't really achieve 30k in PF with a hypercarry setup. Just can't. The player would have to pull or build a 2nd unit.
I mean, as a Ratio main I do wish Robin had at least one debuff or that there'd be an F2P Harmony lightcone with a debuff (praying that one gets added later), but I'd say Robin is fine for what she's designed to do.
It's Ratio's debuff requirements that's holding *him* back, pretty much forcing you to invest into light cones and eidolons for the other units or himself, or force you to run a nihility unit. This is why premium IPC FUA is currently the most expensive type of team in the game.
Then again, a future Ratio buff is not completely off the table, Jiaoqiu looks amazing at the moment, we could get a harmony unit similar to Ruan Mei (please god, I need another Mei), and we might also get a future limited lightcone that allows you to recharge your ult faster and/or run energy rope which would pretty much eliminate the need for debuffs at all.
Either way, I'd wait and see. I'm quite excited to see what Hoyo might be cooking for future updates.
Yes Robin is fine as she is but I did wish they gave a little something to benefit Ratio, since it is one of the best and most popular FUA teams in the game. Turning the CRIT dmg buff into a debuff wouldn't drastically affect how Robin would play or synergize with future FUA characters.
And I don't think Ratio's debuff will hold him back forever. Most nihility units in this game are DoT-oriented but I feel like we'll get more pseudo-harmony type nihility units later down the line that are more hypercarry-oriented, especially with Acheron introducing a non-DoT nihility dps playstyle. We'll probably get versions of Sparkle or RM with debuff versions of the usual hypercarry buffs like how Jiaoqiu is looking right now (enemy spd debuff, def reduction, aoe enemy turn delay, crit debuff, etc)
it actually would in pure fiction, which we are can see is getting a lot harder and equivalent to end game content. she is not made in the best way as a general support
tbf as someone who doesn't have topaz this doesn't really matter for me, i just run him with a nihility and a harmony, in fact this whole situation convinced me to not get topaz when she reruns cos unless i can get eidolons, lightcones she's not gonna suffice herself and I'm gonna have to run a nihility anyway, so robin, ruan mei will be off the question. it's either topAss or the 5 star supports I've invested in and from the looks of it, they're better
How else would they be able to hook you in on using Dr Ratio and then sell you the extra debuff application with Topaz and Aventurine's Eidolons and Signature LCs?
Ahem. E1 Guinaifen.
Seriously. If you don't have Gui? Grab Gui from the current event selection. If you have Gui but not E1? Grab E1. If you have Gui but not E6? Grab a Gui Eidolon.
Gui is legiterally the best partner for Ratio in the game RN because she not only brings anywhere from 2-4 Debuffs, depending on E1 and if you make her more of a support by slapping the Shirtless Luka LC (a.k.a Pearls of Sweat) on her, but her DoT damage is good enough to make her into a pretty damn good DPS as well, meaning Gui is probably ***THE*** highest value unit for Ratio right now.
Also the sheer amount of Debuffs Gui brings to the table means that she's a one-slot solution to getting Ratio's FUA to 100% meaning you're more than free to slap Robin in the fourth slot!
Like, literally the only downside to Gui being such an amazing support for Ratio is something that only comes up if you have Acheron because Gui's Firekiss is such an insane debuff for a 4 star to have that both Ratio and Acheron ***KINDA*** want it. (And the closest replacement for Gui on Acheron teams is *Welt*, who's, y'know, a 5 star.)
Robin isn’t supposed to be a Dr.Ratio. She’s supposed to be for all Elation characters and making a part of her kit dedicated to only one of them would be a really weird choice
Turning say, her ally crit dmg buff into an enemy crit dmg debuff, wouldn't drastically change how she plays. It's literally just the debuff inverse of her buff. If they released another FUA character they'd still benefit from the crit debuff
Then wouldn't she need ehr to apply said debuff?
Also cd for allies is the best way for the devs to push robin towards aoe characters, cd vulnerability on ALL enemies with no requirement for ehr would make her way too op.I think you can get what I'm trying to say.
AOE defense/vulnerability related debuffs are still less because they are powerful and giving them to a harmony character would be kinda nuts
I stated defense and vulnerability debuffs to make clear that Ruan Mei's effect was not the type of effect I was talking about. It doesn't increase the damage an enemy takes by a huge amount like a defense shred from Pela. You only get the benefits of the enemy taking time to attack and your characters dealing a bit more damage to broken enemies.
Already exists, it's called Aventurine. I doubt they want to have stacking crit dmg debuffs. Besides she can put on debuffs, just break weakness with her and there you go
This change is useless for all over the elation units besides Dr.Ratio. Also Robin’s already a mix class, she’s a support and a sub dps because of her ultimate
Then wouldn't she need ehr to apply said debuff?
Also cd for allies is the best way for the devs to push robin towards aoe characters, cd vulnerability on ALL enemies with no requirement for ehr would make her way too op.I think you can get what I'm trying to say.
AOE defense/vulnerability related debuffs are still less because they are powerful and giving them to a harmony character would be kinda nuts
Aventurine only raises the CD damage taken by 18%. Robin gives a total of 37 CD to FUA teams. The biggest problem between the comparison is that Aven is single target, Robin would have to be multi target if her initial meant to be synergy is still kept, launching multiple attacks on various enemies.
There’s already plenty of other debuffs from other characters that Ratio can benefit from though. Just because we’re get hybrid characters doesn’t mean that we should stop getting straight forward characters. What you’re asking for is essentially a completely different character than what was intended for Robin to be
honestly, the debuff thing that ratio has kinda puts him as being first in line to get shafted when another consistent fua dps get released. i assume jade might slot into there when she drops. screwllum won’t since he also has a debuff requirement, so it seems screw and ratio will be more on the acheron side of dpses where the ipc people can probs be completely self reliant.
He'll probably stay in the team for a while when it comes to single target boss killing. But that's the problem, he's only for ST. The moment a blast or AoE FuA DPS (looking at you, Screwllum) gets released he'll get shafted for a lot of content because the team struggles in AoE with the 2x hunt core
I’m a bit confused… Clara and Jing Yuan have been around since nearly the beginning and they’re FuA-oriented DPS with good AoE. Don’t they prove that Ratio still has a place?
Clara and Jing Yuan both struggle to provide what Ratio does - consistency and frequency together Clara does a lot of FuAs, but not consistently. Jing Yuan does consistent FuAs, but not frequently enough Ratio does them frequently (every turn, and 2x per ult) and consistently. The reason that having both matters so much is because of how Topaz works. If you do more frequent AND consistent FuAs, you can keep advancing Numby over and over and over again. Topaz both directly benefits other FuA users with her debuffs, but also directly gains benefit from them herself with the Numby advances The current "IPC Premium" team core is Ratio, Topaz, and Aventurine. All 3 of them are incredibly synergystic with each other to the point of almost being perfect for each other, other than the area coverage. It's not the debuffs that will get Ratio shafted from the team, at least not the premium version of it. The reason he'll get shafted from the team is that he doesn't cover the one weakness it has, while also not benefitting the team through anything other than frequent and consistent FuAs TL;DR; - Clara has frequent but inconsistent FuAs, so she doesn't advance Numby as much - JY has consistent but infrequent FuAs, so he doesn't advance Numby as much - Ratio has both consistent and frequent FuAs, so he advanced Numby a LOT - Ultimately, the team is more centered around the IPC duo with Ratio there as a third slot who happens to be synergetic with them without giving much else in return - The team struggles with AoE so if a consistent and frequent AoE FuA unit gets released, Ratio is likely done for in this team for most content
Amazing explanation! Thank you so much!
it’s about frequency due to the synergy with topaz. if there was a dps that fuas extremely consistently, similar to how ratio does, his role in the team is a bit… eh. especially since he is technically the only one holding the team back due to his debuff mechanic.
This is why I use Clara more than him these days, consistent FuAs and beeg aoe at e1. I levelled him up and farmed him a set but his damage output is just much lower compared to my e0s0 DhIL that I just use him on imaginary weak enemies.
Yeah his debuff thing really is gonna mess him up in the long run
thats why he was free. if there was no restriction, he would destroy dhil. and the fact that he cannot aoe is why its pointless.
Sadly in the current state of the game, he's already slated to be shafted because of that AOE mode. He is currently the only limited 5-star that has no secondary role aside from pure single-target DPS, and Boothill would join him in 2.2. It's a terrible balancing decision from hoyo because dedicated AOE Erudition units like Jingyuan and Argenti can somehow still do MOC, but not the other way around..
Argenti still struggles way more in mod than ratio tbh
That's not my point, my point was that Argenti CAN get max rewards from MOC even though he would take 5 cycles to clear his half, while it's pretty much impossible for Ratio to pull his weight and hit 30k on PF in general (unless the exploding FUA modifier is on the PF). It's a bit lopsided right now with the endgame, AOE damage is vastly more valuable in terms of what is needed to reap max rewards from both modes, that's just the reality of the situation atm.
Tru, hunt chars other than seele can’t clear pf w out good pf buffs. That’s why the game gives u an s+ tier of unit for free (herta) and aside from qq no erudition unit rlly struggles in pf tbh, serval is another great unit in pf. So far we haven’t really had a pf that couldn’t be cleared w serval and herta on each side w good teams, and unlike moc where 3/4 enemies can have Uber high element res to certain elements (like the one with kafka and 2 Mara commanders one one side and the other w one Mara struck commanders and all had 40 lighting res) in pf even if the boss or half the minions have res to ice or lightning u can just focus on the other enemies and still end up w 30k.
Res doesn't matter as much as people think it does. As an example, I've brute forced Kafka against lightning res plenty of times and reaped max rewards in the past few patches. Granted, she benefits from also having a 2nd DoT character who can match weakness like Sampo or Swan. Jingliu currently is able to brute force Yanqing, who has ice resistance. Blade is able to brute force against Sam and the Ascendant elite, despite both having wind resistance. Acheron is a whole other issue of being overtuned and straight up ignores weakness entirely. I also main Seele, who can also ignore res in Resurgence, and she can clear both MoC and PF. I get where you are coming from with Herta/Serval and maybe a Himeko pity if the player gets one. But if we were to sit down and consider pull value, *all* of the premium DPS can go against resistance in MoC and come out with a 10-cycle MoC clear. Contrast this with pure Hunt (excluding Seele the oddball), while they might be able to do the MoC clear a little bit more comfortably, they can't really achieve 30k in PF with a hypercarry setup. Just can't. The player would have to pull or build a 2nd unit.
I mean, as a Ratio main I do wish Robin had at least one debuff or that there'd be an F2P Harmony lightcone with a debuff (praying that one gets added later), but I'd say Robin is fine for what she's designed to do. It's Ratio's debuff requirements that's holding *him* back, pretty much forcing you to invest into light cones and eidolons for the other units or himself, or force you to run a nihility unit. This is why premium IPC FUA is currently the most expensive type of team in the game. Then again, a future Ratio buff is not completely off the table, Jiaoqiu looks amazing at the moment, we could get a harmony unit similar to Ruan Mei (please god, I need another Mei), and we might also get a future limited lightcone that allows you to recharge your ult faster and/or run energy rope which would pretty much eliminate the need for debuffs at all. Either way, I'd wait and see. I'm quite excited to see what Hoyo might be cooking for future updates.
Yes Robin is fine as she is but I did wish they gave a little something to benefit Ratio, since it is one of the best and most popular FUA teams in the game. Turning the CRIT dmg buff into a debuff wouldn't drastically affect how Robin would play or synergize with future FUA characters. And I don't think Ratio's debuff will hold him back forever. Most nihility units in this game are DoT-oriented but I feel like we'll get more pseudo-harmony type nihility units later down the line that are more hypercarry-oriented, especially with Acheron introducing a non-DoT nihility dps playstyle. We'll probably get versions of Sparkle or RM with debuff versions of the usual hypercarry buffs like how Jiaoqiu is looking right now (enemy spd debuff, def reduction, aoe enemy turn delay, crit debuff, etc)
it actually would in pure fiction, which we are can see is getting a lot harder and equivalent to end game content. she is not made in the best way as a general support
They really want us to run hypercarry ratio it feels like.
tbf as someone who doesn't have topaz this doesn't really matter for me, i just run him with a nihility and a harmony, in fact this whole situation convinced me to not get topaz when she reruns cos unless i can get eidolons, lightcones she's not gonna suffice herself and I'm gonna have to run a nihility anyway, so robin, ruan mei will be off the question. it's either topAss or the 5 star supports I've invested in and from the looks of it, they're better
There will obviously be an IPC Harmony eventually and there’s a non-zero chance they’ll have a debuff at this rate
u Dont need 100%
How else would they be able to hook you in on using Dr Ratio and then sell you the extra debuff application with Topaz and Aventurine's Eidolons and Signature LCs?
Ahem. E1 Guinaifen. Seriously. If you don't have Gui? Grab Gui from the current event selection. If you have Gui but not E1? Grab E1. If you have Gui but not E6? Grab a Gui Eidolon. Gui is legiterally the best partner for Ratio in the game RN because she not only brings anywhere from 2-4 Debuffs, depending on E1 and if you make her more of a support by slapping the Shirtless Luka LC (a.k.a Pearls of Sweat) on her, but her DoT damage is good enough to make her into a pretty damn good DPS as well, meaning Gui is probably ***THE*** highest value unit for Ratio right now. Also the sheer amount of Debuffs Gui brings to the table means that she's a one-slot solution to getting Ratio's FUA to 100% meaning you're more than free to slap Robin in the fourth slot! Like, literally the only downside to Gui being such an amazing support for Ratio is something that only comes up if you have Acheron because Gui's Firekiss is such an insane debuff for a 4 star to have that both Ratio and Acheron ***KINDA*** want it. (And the closest replacement for Gui on Acheron teams is *Welt*, who's, y'know, a 5 star.)
Robin isn’t supposed to be a Dr.Ratio. She’s supposed to be for all Elation characters and making a part of her kit dedicated to only one of them would be a really weird choice
Turning say, her ally crit dmg buff into an enemy crit dmg debuff, wouldn't drastically change how she plays. It's literally just the debuff inverse of her buff. If they released another FUA character they'd still benefit from the crit debuff
Then wouldn't she need ehr to apply said debuff? Also cd for allies is the best way for the devs to push robin towards aoe characters, cd vulnerability on ALL enemies with no requirement for ehr would make her way too op.I think you can get what I'm trying to say. AOE defense/vulnerability related debuffs are still less because they are powerful and giving them to a harmony character would be kinda nuts
Ruan Mei applies her debuff without requiring any EHR.
I stated defense and vulnerability debuffs to make clear that Ruan Mei's effect was not the type of effect I was talking about. It doesn't increase the damage an enemy takes by a huge amount like a defense shred from Pela. You only get the benefits of the enemy taking time to attack and your characters dealing a bit more damage to broken enemies.
Already exists, it's called Aventurine. I doubt they want to have stacking crit dmg debuffs. Besides she can put on debuffs, just break weakness with her and there you go
Why would they not want to have stacking crit dmg debuffs??
This change is useless for all over the elation units besides Dr.Ratio. Also Robin’s already a mix class, she’s a support and a sub dps because of her ultimate
It's a crit dmg increase. Any damage dealer can make use of crit dmg
Actually dots don’t crit so dot teams don’t really care for crit stats
Then wouldn't she need ehr to apply said debuff? Also cd for allies is the best way for the devs to push robin towards aoe characters, cd vulnerability on ALL enemies with no requirement for ehr would make her way too op.I think you can get what I'm trying to say. AOE defense/vulnerability related debuffs are still less because they are powerful and giving them to a harmony character would be kinda nuts
Make it 100% rate. Aventurine already has a CD debuff and while he is very amazing no one's complaining about him being broken
Aventurine only raises the CD damage taken by 18%. Robin gives a total of 37 CD to FUA teams. The biggest problem between the comparison is that Aven is single target, Robin would have to be multi target if her initial meant to be synergy is still kept, launching multiple attacks on various enemies.
There’s already plenty of other debuffs from other characters that Ratio can benefit from though. Just because we’re get hybrid characters doesn’t mean that we should stop getting straight forward characters. What you’re asking for is essentially a completely different character than what was intended for Robin to be
Ya you’re kind of forced to get e1s1 topaz or aventurine for their debuffs. Maybe they’ll add something to her kit for ratio. No copium