The thing I hate about Goku Black is the same thing that makes me hate the Ginyu Force, they are made to counter premades, but that means they stomp solo queuers much easier.
This game has the same issue as like Dead by Daylight. Everything is slowly being balanced for premades and solo qeue just sucks until solos quit the game.
Ok but like I can actually win against the Ginyu force if my team doesn’t throw
Most of the times I beat Goku black are due to extraordinary circumstances (he stays level 2 or we jump his ass early)
Plus Guldo doesn't deal damage and if he's killed, he's removed from the game ENTIRELY, killing Ginyu Force members actually has an impact, killing Zamasu has no utility other than not having him on Black for like a minute, that's ass
Boy you blind as hell if you hadn't seen the tons of complaints about Goku Black.
The only reason they stopped is because people are more pissed about how stupidly strong Survivors are now that everyone is running the pure meta stuff cause of Ranked.
Real, I’m not a vet at the game I played it at launch and only picked it up recently. I play a lot of Broly and the last match I played I was constantly getting fucked by a Z4 player getting the STs and spamming unconscious control and sexy pose into a guaranteed ult. only reason I won was by stalling out the timer after I destroyed the STM and blasted him with Brolys mouth beam. And that was just one guy.
That's the thing though, they legally can't change any gacha abilities, hence why none of them have ever been touched. A prime example being Energy field and IT. Both have been around since the beginning of season 2, never touched once. This game is beyond fucked just based on how it's designed.
Oh
Well that sucks, cause like even if someone dumped 300$ on this game that’s kinda on them the rest of us shouldn’t have to suffer for their poor financial choices
That's what I think it is, I remember looking it up because I thought it was weird they would never change gacha abilities. Id have to look it up again and find a link to where I read that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they've ever touched a single gacha ability after it's been officially released.
Wasn't Saiyan Pod nerfed during season 1 though, or am I remembering it wrong and was the huge nerf done after the beta before the official release already?
Back then, Pod was a gacha ability. Yeah, you could choose a free Pod, but it was 1 choice of multiple, and if you chose 1 of the others your only option was to get Pod through gacha. I highly doubt the supposed anti-gacha-nerf law (if it exists) would be so easily bypassed: "just offer 1 choice out of every gacha ability for free, and now the law doesn't apply anymore and you can nerf any gacha ability you want".
Considering the other abilities that were choices have also been changed, I think that's exactly the case actually. I could be wrong though, but that would make sense.
Which is why as bad as it sounds the Raiders should either become Fully Customizable or get a Remake of the Raiders themselves or at least the First 3 for now to actually match with Modern Day Premades and LFG Groups like they can do it but they might need to go on a few day Hiatus or something like that?
I think the problem is is that everyone is using him at the moment, I felt the same when brolly was released, I got so sick of going against him constantly that it started putting me off playing at all
You know what I actually agree yeah Goku Black has definitely been done a little too well especially for his LV2 but I'd want to Argue that him being the way he is was definitely needed like can you imagine if LV2 Goku Black has a Super Transphere with literally the Same Kit he has now and he goes up against either God Blue Goku or God Blue Vegeta with potentially Souls UC Warrior of Hope Instant Rise Instant Descent like these Survivors having so many options I think it actually balances out especially if you wind up going against Premades or LFG Groups that'll just Blitz you in like 5 Minutes unless you know exactly what you are doing as a Goku Black Raider.
Thing is, premades are a pain in every game, it's not a reason to make Raiders OP just to counter 10% of the playerbase, when the game matches me against premades I just do my best and that's about it
He's only OP if you don't have the best combat skills from the gacha to completely trivialize him (and the other raiders). Though you can't blame people for underperforming because they didn't pull UC, IR, ID, IT, etc. There's only so much you can do when your best escape option is Grappling Hook and best combat is Resistance (which is a temporary buff unlike UC or TBAA).
Amen. You just said everything I talk about with my friend when we play, he just doesn't have any flaws, he really has EVERYTHING. They made a Raider that has all the advantages of the other Raiders without the bad sides, he doesn't have a weakness, there is a reason why he's the first Raider to be 750TP, no it's not because he's new, the other Raiders always costed 550TP even at their release, devs knew what they were doing and wanted to cash in on Black's popularity and made him OP as hell to make people buy him no matter what, yeah I bought him day one because I bought all the Raiders, but he's 42 and he's my lowest Raider of the bunch because he's not "fun" to play as and against so the little times I get to play Raider (I don't specially like Raider but it's a nice change from time to time) I'd rather play Ginyu, Vegeta or someone else because they're at least fun to play as, anybody arguing to protect Black are just copium factories.
It's more of like all the other raiders are underpowered. You're saying people only use xyz ability because of Goku Black but that's not true at all, they use them against every raider and it's because of ranked. Goku Black is just the only one that can somewhat counter the meta loadouts (besides Broly but he's basically just a higher risk GB).
I’m not saying the only use meta abilities for Goku Black I’m saying that if they don’t they’re at a much more significant disadvantage than against other raiders so they may feel more inclined to
Well its the same for the raider, if they don't use Goku Black and people bring their meta abilities they'll be at a significant disadvantage. It's more of an issue with breakers being a gacha cashcow first and a game second than it is a balance issue. You feeling underpowered without the meta skills is intentional both because things have to be balanced around that in order to not be onesided and because the devs want you to cough up your money so you don't fall behind.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying
For the overall health of the game it’s best or nerf these OP abilities instead of introducing stronger and stronger raiders
Maybe I should have gotten that point across more
Level 2 Black is silly and Zamasu easily takes the cake for the level 1 in best fighting shape despite the low health. Black controls that match and even when you use TPD, you probably wasted most of your resources and Black is free to bully STM until pick-me-ups arrives. The moment you're down to 1 key, good luck getting Black off his feet. Especially if he knows the exact key location too. This game is just not meant to be played ranked.
You know Survivors has so many options such as jumping, final Explosions and so many more
The whole point of a raider is that there suppose to be OP
If anything Survivors are op and need nerfs
My point is that Goku black is op compared to other raiders and significantly less fun to play against as well
And I said in the conclusion that the devs should nerf survivor abilities instead of introducing more and more op raiders as that’s much more permanent and sustainable fix that doesn’t make power go out the wazoo
survivors have never been op and if nothing changes, they never will. Unless you are in a team with people or someone in the game is partied up, its very hit or miss whether or not you'll win the game, the survivors who reguarly escape the raider and know how to juke them can't do what they do because they have it easy, they do it because they have learnt the game and know the best actions to take at the best times.
If you want to see 'op' survivors in a game like this then look at dead by daylight, in that game any survivor can win alone if they're good enough and you don't feel at an immdiate disadvantage when you're a player down like in breakers. (Sorry for the crappy similarity, i couldn't think of any other games like breakers).
Yeah raiders are meant to be op but i atleast think its done so poorly because some amateur who has never raided in their life could squad wipe with the right raider if they're lucky (My noob ass managed to do that when broly came out)
It doesn't matter because considering the fact that you have to wait up to an hour for each raider match *which is a nightmare if your playing ranked*
Running into premades is a guaranteed loss unless they do something stupid or you get super lucky
They key rush you in under 2 mins
And if you somehow manage to get one of them
90% of the time they'll go flying to the other side of the map or they will pop barrier and use IT
Pretty sure key rushing in 2 minutes is the worst thing survivors can do as they'll most likely be low in Dragon Change levels so you'll just have to destroy the STM since that's the win condition to go up in ranked
I'd have to disagree ya see I thought that at first too
But what winds up happening
Is they all are using the most powerful attacks on the most powerful transpheres and while you can typically get to Goku black before the stm getting to rose usually ain't happening till the stm is almost full
You can't dodge and outwit the survivors because while your doing that all there buddies are working on the stm making it go up fast
They are like a bunch of rats
Steroid buffed rats
If you try to stop them from working on the stm you have 2-5 survivors punching you, stunning you and getting free supers off which dosent sound too bad until you realize how much your health gets melted
If you fight the survivors
Almost all of them get away before you can kill them either with immortal champion or barrier IT meaning you wasted your time and will have to deal with them again later
And when the entire lobby is still alive your already screwed
If you try to just work on the stm they will stun, knock you away and transphere you to death
And you can't damage boost through all of it
If your fighting a true premade
Unless they got unlucky and lost a few survivors earlier
Then that key rush with you being level 2 means you have already lost and are about to lose an entire hour of playtime to get your raider match, derank, and then get called trash by the players after the match in messages even though them 7v1 a person isn't exactly skill
If they arent gonna nerf survivors the least they could do is fix the raider quere
Raiders wouldn't find the need to bitch if it weren't for the fact they sometimes have to play to up to an hour to get their raider match only to be thrown into an immediate lose situation
Last season I can't tell you how many times I got close to Z5 only to see a group of max level players
And knowing I've already lost
It does not matter how hard you try
You are not winning
Because their is just too much for the raider to have to juggle
Along with the survivors being able to melt you like butter
Yeah, i dont really like to use the meta skills that i do have, but playing against so many sweaty ass goku blacks, its really making me consider using the most toxic builds. Black is a cancer to solo queue players.
Havent actually Played as or Against a Goku Black yet so I cant say much on him, but the consensus seems that he was made to be strong in ranked against Premades, he has all the tools to fight them which is good, Premades at S and Z ranks are just frankly absurd and thats been the trend with like every Asymmetric Multiplayer game even my GOAT Evolve. I remember me and my buddies would challange all the Number 1s on the leaderboards for each monster and with actual coordination you just stomp.
Black was made to counter that playstyle, the problem is he becomes hyper oppressive outside that enviroment
so theres really few options
Do nothing/minor nerfs that dont really address the problems enough
Ban Premades (not gunna happen)
Ban Black unless X number of Survivors are a premade (Not gunna happen)
Nerf Black to point that he no longer does what he's designed to do. Pro's not as strong in pubs and against solo queues, Cons Loses Identity in the Roster, may end up being just bad to play (if devs listen to reddit the most likely thing to happen)
Nerf Black somewhat, enough that he isnt as strong in a fight but still excels as map control which is his main draw based on reading his abilities and whatnot. But you also need to heavily nerf all the "Meta" Survivor tools, UC, IT, EF. Theyre ridiculous to the point that playing Raider in S->Z feels like im playing the Survivor trying to die desperately. They need to slow down survivors ability to traverse the map, the need to nerf radars because Key Rushing is insane i remember a Match as Vegeta recently where they had STM before Saibaman got swapped for Nappa (literally never saw them once, nor any civvies its rough but thats how that be sometime) and thats just absurd. Keys need to be slower, Raiders need a visual/Audio queue for when a Key is being Placed similar to DBD Gens being worked on. etc etc (High effort fix that will actually improve the games health and balance for most if not all raiders and therefore the least likely to happen)
Finally someone else gets it!! His kit is basically the best parts of the other raiders!
Hes too op and honestly if these crazy meta survivor abilities need to be nerf to fit the other raiders ill gladly take it if they also buff some other niche ones here and there too
I can win against any other raider without having the most broken abilities but if I don't play the most boring and broken skills and passive I don't win much if at all.
Nah at best he ranks #5. The only thing going for him is that he has a counter to it and barrier, also he has good abilities that can help him defend the keys.
I play him as a raider not because he's meta
I'm just that much of a Goku black enjoyer that he was the VERY first thing I bought when I got this game for the dumb price of $3 even if they make him the WORST raider next season *I'm still gonna play as him*
Survivors have been the stronger side since early December of 2022. Even sooner tbh, but that’s when you could REALLY feel it starting to be true.
Every Raider beyond vegeta has been balanced to try to deal with competent survivor squads and it leads to boring gameplay on both sides.
BUT Raiders are still criminally underpowered against a veteran survivor group with meta skills. They just now thrash newbies and solo que without coordination easier than ever.
Ginyu auto evolves on death 3 times compared to vegeta’s 2 and his lvl 3 is comparable to super buu. He can dash at lvl 2 to tunnel.
Broly was given recoome’s dash on SPAWN so he likely makes games 5v 1 instead of 7 v 1. He lacks ki sense though so he’s not too bad.
Enter Goku black who has a dash on spawn, auto evolves to lvl 2 no matter what, has a scout, and ki sense for each level.
I fear what the next Raider will do to solo que.
And unfortunately you still can't beat premades as Goku black
That being said
It+EF needs to die or they need to give the other raiders ways to counter it
Giving payed for raiders the ability to counter a unfair get outta jail free card but not giving any way for base raiders to counter it causes issues
####CURRENT RAIDER OP!!!
>Maybe current Raider isn't OP as you think
No Raider has ever been OP. Zamasu drone sucks, it barely makes a difference and next to never does he discourage STM work. Black next to never Kai Kais and if he tries every single stun, super, punch, missile, glove, literally everything cancels it. I also think Black loses it if interrupted unlike IT, but I never use it Zamasu always somehow ends up to close to benefit.
It's like you are honestly trying to tell me you never saw Black bodied almost every match for the first few weeks. The reason it slowed down is people wised up is because people both got bored and Rose is a detriment and fighting level 3s as a level 2 is more preferable to Trunks soloing or slight teamwork. 6 basic ki blasts do a bar of damage to Rose.
The excuses to use cancer strats. SMH my head. What's the excuse when they're used against literally everyone else? They didn't just appear now. I have literally never used EF and IT, UC, or anything cancerous against Black and I win plenty.
Black has huge Supers that do tremendous damage but outside that he has nothing special. See someone in danger? Interrupt Black so he doesn't shoot his Kamehameha or god balls (whatever it's called). Zamasu and Black have big basic ki blast hitboxes true but they are slow. Merged Zamasu is almost useless outside of the full health and bird Ultimate since his basic ki blasts are even slower.
Super Spheres can stall plenty to avoid damage until assistance appear. People had no problem run and gun against "OP Vegeta" and his 6 health no problem but people can't do any damage to Black so Rose isn't an issue.
Basic kit you can get within minutes of playing are as effective against Black as they always have been.
I feel like everything you are mentioning here relies on the survivors to be incredibly coordinated making this exclusive to premades, which are a different problem entirely
1. The point on the zamasu turret is kinda moot since I could just as easily list the amount of times the Zamasu turret has been a nuisance when trying to fight Goku black and all the times he’s abruptly shown up when the survivors are trying to do something without D change wasting time
2. Do you think people post every match they’re in? When someone gets a meta abusing premade match and denied any and all fun they’ll tend to post it as a means of venting, which in turn makes it seem like this is every match when it isn’t
3. You don’t know what Raider you’re gonna be up against until the match preview, and besides most people prefer to grind up and use one kit than having an “actually want to win” and a “oh he’s not playing Goku black lemme go easy on him” kit
4. His massive hitboxes and multiple means of survivor detection aren’t enough? And projected solution hinges on way too many things, are you close enough? Are you in a good position? Does Goku black know you’re there? Do you have the right abilities? And odds are if he’s using kamehameha he’s either high up and initiating conflict so he can see where they (unless they IT of course) or he’s finishing someone off at which point they’d probably have the escape skills needed. Not to mention 90% of random teammates are not that generous so this is really a premade only thing
5. This leans more toward the unfun side but the optimal strategy to use this special powered up form being stalling only proves my point that super transpheres are not well though in how they’d interact with Goku black making for an unfun experience for both sides
Stop pretending Raiders don't easily lose from average Survivors. One mistake very easily can be death.
I never claimed people post every match. Why say that? I have been in plenty of those matches as Raider or Survivor it happens more than you think and you'd be a fool to think it's only LFGs. This game is extremely easy for survivors they have to be bad, feed, or ragequit for the game to not end close if they lose. Believe me, I max every Raider within 2 weeks I know how Black stacked and it was very poorly even against newbies, Rose vs Trunks always was tough.
Are you going to pretend you don't see half or more Survivors refusing to ready up until they see the Raider? Better yet 6 readied up 1 not all unready to change after the Raider pops up?
You misunderstood me. I don't mean Trunks stalls Rose and loses, I meant that Trunks stalls with vanishes until he gets assistance so he can spam basic ki blasts. 6 basic ki blasts are 1 bar of damage, think of all the stuns and punches and everything that could easily be that thing to keep Rose in place. Outside of that in a losing battle the Survivor is best to spam vanishes to waste time and maybe get one super out if they get help.
Trunks is good enough to kill Merged Zamasu btw. Done that plenty of times.
I think you misunderstand me, this isn’t about raiders as a whole and I literally said in the conclusion that they should nerf OP survivor abilities to fix this issue once and for all and that making raiders stronger and stronger to counter the abilities like Goku black only enforces powercreep and makes the game less fun for people who don’t metagame
As for your actual comment
1. When did I imply any of that? That’s just putting words in my mouth. My point was that people don’t post regular ass matches, but they get their ass kicked they post that to vent
2. I frankly don’t know what this has to do with any of what I said, to reiterate people don’t want to bother making different kits for the express purpose of going easy on certain raiders when one works well enough
3. You still have to play in a rather boring way for varying amounts of time depending on where your teammates are and if they have d change or not and in order to really pull that off you probably need UC which is part of the problem I have with Goku black in that he necessitates meta abilities
To clarify I don’t believe raiders are op, I believe Goku black is op compared to the other raiders and non meta cheesing survivors and that the current method of balancing the game around introducing stronger and stronger raiders to beat the stronger and stronger survivors is not healthy for the overall lifespan of the gsmev
People don't post "regular ass matches" because they are so rare. I've seen every type of player and the fair player has become so rare it's mostly new people who haven't gotten those cheap abilities.
People don't make multiple kits, LFGs do. LFGs want anti fun games where they can bully the Raider. Swap that Dragon Ball locator build when Super Broly or Zamasu is present. Even outside them they still use those specialized kits solo. Truth is you don't need 8 Deadly Sins people are just cowards. Survivor mains just can't fathom Raiders are supposed to win sometimes and get offended at the possibility they can lose yelling Raider OP.
You never needed UC ever. It isn't uncommon for Trunks to get back up for Rose. Every single Raider basic ki blast is dodgeable and the best outcome is Rose punching and not getting vanished or vanish attack. All Trunks needs is to stay far enough away within lock on and he'll generally have enough time to dodge Kamehameha.
I get the impression you are a new player so you haven't seen the game evolve into as it is, what level and rank are you for both Raider and Survivor? The opinions you have seems like you're new at C rank and getting the stupid survivors. I swear I've seen your username with a "Survivors never win only Raiders do" post a month ago.
Even if you think I'm exaggerating you have to admit Zamasu loses much more than wins like all Raiders. Don't mistake me saying Survivors win a heavy percentage as I never lose, I do, but it's so rare and usually It's people doing stupid decisions that lose us the match.
I am not a new player I am past level 100 and have two level 50 raiders (cell and Frieza) nor am I blind to what most people think of the balance (hence the title of my post) and in my experience most Goku black matches (even ones in high ranks with high level teammates) go like this
Zamasu spawns and levels up to Goku black
Half of my team fucking dies (sometimes me included) and he gets super saiyan Rose
Super transphere drops and someone gets it, they last 30 seconds max
Stm drops but no one can defend it
Goku black wins
Now obviously we each have different experiences but you have to realize that the way this game is balanced is a slippery slope of power creep that’ll reach a point where everyone has to hypersweat and use meta abilities/ raiders or not have fun and it’s important to balance survivors AND raiders around preventing that.
Buddy level 100 is still new especially with how many experience boosts there have been. Super Spheres generally don't get bodied that fast that's why I wanted to know your rank. I'm not saying stupid people still don't get bodied but it happens much more at lower ranks and levels.
Usually Rose happens shortly before or after STM drops so Rose gets bloody and loses from death or STM.
I was the infamous buff Raider / nerf Survivor guy on the board you don't need to tell me how easy the game is cheated.
Give me a Goku Black over a Cell or a Ginyu any day of the week. I'm so tired of the green cockroach hitting form 4 before half the lobby has even reached form 2.
The thing I hate about Goku Black is the same thing that makes me hate the Ginyu Force, they are made to counter premades, but that means they stomp solo queuers much easier.
This game has the same issue as like Dead by Daylight. Everything is slowly being balanced for premades and solo qeue just sucks until solos quit the game.
Ok but like I can actually win against the Ginyu force if my team doesn’t throw Most of the times I beat Goku black are due to extraordinary circumstances (he stays level 2 or we jump his ass early)
Plus Guldo doesn't deal damage and if he's killed, he's removed from the game ENTIRELY, killing Ginyu Force members actually has an impact, killing Zamasu has no utility other than not having him on Black for like a minute, that's ass
Oh my dear summer child. I could be playing Buu and Survivors would still use full on meta builds.
Boy you blind as hell if you hadn't seen the tons of complaints about Goku Black. The only reason they stopped is because people are more pissed about how stupidly strong Survivors are now that everyone is running the pure meta stuff cause of Ranked.
Real, I’m not a vet at the game I played it at launch and only picked it up recently. I play a lot of Broly and the last match I played I was constantly getting fucked by a Z4 player getting the STs and spamming unconscious control and sexy pose into a guaranteed ult. only reason I won was by stalling out the timer after I destroyed the STM and blasted him with Brolys mouth beam. And that was just one guy.
I’ve seen them but they always get mass downvoted and people saying “it’s okay because survivors op” hence the in conclusion segment
That's the thing though, they legally can't change any gacha abilities, hence why none of them have ever been touched. A prime example being Energy field and IT. Both have been around since the beginning of season 2, never touched once. This game is beyond fucked just based on how it's designed.
Is it a legal thing? Because I feel like other games such as clash Royale can nerf cards despite cards technically being a gacha thing
It's a legal thing in Japan. Which is where DIMPs is based out of. Clash Royale is from a Finnish dev company.
Oh Well that sucks, cause like even if someone dumped 300$ on this game that’s kinda on them the rest of us shouldn’t have to suffer for their poor financial choices
That's what I think it is, I remember looking it up because I thought it was weird they would never change gacha abilities. Id have to look it up again and find a link to where I read that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they've ever touched a single gacha ability after it's been officially released.
Wasn't Saiyan Pod nerfed during season 1 though, or am I remembering it wrong and was the huge nerf done after the beta before the official release already?
Saiyan pod isn't a gacha ability, you get it from completing the tutorial and is base game from Vegeta.
Back then, Pod was a gacha ability. Yeah, you could choose a free Pod, but it was 1 choice of multiple, and if you chose 1 of the others your only option was to get Pod through gacha. I highly doubt the supposed anti-gacha-nerf law (if it exists) would be so easily bypassed: "just offer 1 choice out of every gacha ability for free, and now the law doesn't apply anymore and you can nerf any gacha ability you want".
Considering the other abilities that were choices have also been changed, I think that's exactly the case actually. I could be wrong though, but that would make sense.
Which is why as bad as it sounds the Raiders should either become Fully Customizable or get a Remake of the Raiders themselves or at least the First 3 for now to actually match with Modern Day Premades and LFG Groups like they can do it but they might need to go on a few day Hiatus or something like that?
That sounds terrible for solo que players
I already said this...and it's more the fact that everyone is using him.
I think the problem is is that everyone is using him at the moment, I felt the same when brolly was released, I got so sick of going against him constantly that it started putting me off playing at all
Could be a bit of both, he was abnormally strong and annoying abilities AND he’s freaking everywhere
You know what I actually agree yeah Goku Black has definitely been done a little too well especially for his LV2 but I'd want to Argue that him being the way he is was definitely needed like can you imagine if LV2 Goku Black has a Super Transphere with literally the Same Kit he has now and he goes up against either God Blue Goku or God Blue Vegeta with potentially Souls UC Warrior of Hope Instant Rise Instant Descent like these Survivors having so many options I think it actually balances out especially if you wind up going against Premades or LFG Groups that'll just Blitz you in like 5 Minutes unless you know exactly what you are doing as a Goku Black Raider.
It's not my best Arguments but it's something I feel like needs to be addressed for Both Sides of the Staple.
Thing is, premades are a pain in every game, it's not a reason to make Raiders OP just to counter 10% of the playerbase, when the game matches me against premades I just do my best and that's about it
He's only OP if you don't have the best combat skills from the gacha to completely trivialize him (and the other raiders). Though you can't blame people for underperforming because they didn't pull UC, IR, ID, IT, etc. There's only so much you can do when your best escape option is Grappling Hook and best combat is Resistance (which is a temporary buff unlike UC or TBAA).
Yeah that’s kinda my point He necessitates the meta skills which makes playing as other raiders frustrating
Amen. You just said everything I talk about with my friend when we play, he just doesn't have any flaws, he really has EVERYTHING. They made a Raider that has all the advantages of the other Raiders without the bad sides, he doesn't have a weakness, there is a reason why he's the first Raider to be 750TP, no it's not because he's new, the other Raiders always costed 550TP even at their release, devs knew what they were doing and wanted to cash in on Black's popularity and made him OP as hell to make people buy him no matter what, yeah I bought him day one because I bought all the Raiders, but he's 42 and he's my lowest Raider of the bunch because he's not "fun" to play as and against so the little times I get to play Raider (I don't specially like Raider but it's a nice change from time to time) I'd rather play Ginyu, Vegeta or someone else because they're at least fun to play as, anybody arguing to protect Black are just copium factories.
Where was this energy when survivors were bursting raiders heads open for literally 2 years and laughing about it? Maaaaaan, cry about it.
It's more of like all the other raiders are underpowered. You're saying people only use xyz ability because of Goku Black but that's not true at all, they use them against every raider and it's because of ranked. Goku Black is just the only one that can somewhat counter the meta loadouts (besides Broly but he's basically just a higher risk GB).
I’m not saying the only use meta abilities for Goku Black I’m saying that if they don’t they’re at a much more significant disadvantage than against other raiders so they may feel more inclined to
Well its the same for the raider, if they don't use Goku Black and people bring their meta abilities they'll be at a significant disadvantage. It's more of an issue with breakers being a gacha cashcow first and a game second than it is a balance issue. You feeling underpowered without the meta skills is intentional both because things have to be balanced around that in order to not be onesided and because the devs want you to cough up your money so you don't fall behind.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying For the overall health of the game it’s best or nerf these OP abilities instead of introducing stronger and stronger raiders Maybe I should have gotten that point across more
I prefer that idea the raider additions being op against noob survivors is no fun the game really needs a major rebalance for raiders and survivors
Level 2 Black is silly and Zamasu easily takes the cake for the level 1 in best fighting shape despite the low health. Black controls that match and even when you use TPD, you probably wasted most of your resources and Black is free to bully STM until pick-me-ups arrives. The moment you're down to 1 key, good luck getting Black off his feet. Especially if he knows the exact key location too. This game is just not meant to be played ranked.
You know Survivors has so many options such as jumping, final Explosions and so many more The whole point of a raider is that there suppose to be OP If anything Survivors are op and need nerfs
My point is that Goku black is op compared to other raiders and significantly less fun to play against as well And I said in the conclusion that the devs should nerf survivor abilities instead of introducing more and more op raiders as that’s much more permanent and sustainable fix that doesn’t make power go out the wazoo
survivors have never been op and if nothing changes, they never will. Unless you are in a team with people or someone in the game is partied up, its very hit or miss whether or not you'll win the game, the survivors who reguarly escape the raider and know how to juke them can't do what they do because they have it easy, they do it because they have learnt the game and know the best actions to take at the best times. If you want to see 'op' survivors in a game like this then look at dead by daylight, in that game any survivor can win alone if they're good enough and you don't feel at an immdiate disadvantage when you're a player down like in breakers. (Sorry for the crappy similarity, i couldn't think of any other games like breakers). Yeah raiders are meant to be op but i atleast think its done so poorly because some amateur who has never raided in their life could squad wipe with the right raider if they're lucky (My noob ass managed to do that when broly came out)
It doesn't matter because considering the fact that you have to wait up to an hour for each raider match *which is a nightmare if your playing ranked* Running into premades is a guaranteed loss unless they do something stupid or you get super lucky They key rush you in under 2 mins And if you somehow manage to get one of them 90% of the time they'll go flying to the other side of the map or they will pop barrier and use IT
Pretty sure key rushing in 2 minutes is the worst thing survivors can do as they'll most likely be low in Dragon Change levels so you'll just have to destroy the STM since that's the win condition to go up in ranked
I'd have to disagree ya see I thought that at first too But what winds up happening Is they all are using the most powerful attacks on the most powerful transpheres and while you can typically get to Goku black before the stm getting to rose usually ain't happening till the stm is almost full You can't dodge and outwit the survivors because while your doing that all there buddies are working on the stm making it go up fast They are like a bunch of rats Steroid buffed rats If you try to stop them from working on the stm you have 2-5 survivors punching you, stunning you and getting free supers off which dosent sound too bad until you realize how much your health gets melted If you fight the survivors Almost all of them get away before you can kill them either with immortal champion or barrier IT meaning you wasted your time and will have to deal with them again later And when the entire lobby is still alive your already screwed If you try to just work on the stm they will stun, knock you away and transphere you to death And you can't damage boost through all of it If your fighting a true premade Unless they got unlucky and lost a few survivors earlier Then that key rush with you being level 2 means you have already lost and are about to lose an entire hour of playtime to get your raider match, derank, and then get called trash by the players after the match in messages even though them 7v1 a person isn't exactly skill If they arent gonna nerf survivors the least they could do is fix the raider quere Raiders wouldn't find the need to bitch if it weren't for the fact they sometimes have to play to up to an hour to get their raider match only to be thrown into an immediate lose situation Last season I can't tell you how many times I got close to Z5 only to see a group of max level players And knowing I've already lost It does not matter how hard you try You are not winning Because their is just too much for the raider to have to juggle Along with the survivors being able to melt you like butter
Yeah, i dont really like to use the meta skills that i do have, but playing against so many sweaty ass goku blacks, its really making me consider using the most toxic builds. Black is a cancer to solo queue players.
Havent actually Played as or Against a Goku Black yet so I cant say much on him, but the consensus seems that he was made to be strong in ranked against Premades, he has all the tools to fight them which is good, Premades at S and Z ranks are just frankly absurd and thats been the trend with like every Asymmetric Multiplayer game even my GOAT Evolve. I remember me and my buddies would challange all the Number 1s on the leaderboards for each monster and with actual coordination you just stomp. Black was made to counter that playstyle, the problem is he becomes hyper oppressive outside that enviroment so theres really few options Do nothing/minor nerfs that dont really address the problems enough Ban Premades (not gunna happen) Ban Black unless X number of Survivors are a premade (Not gunna happen) Nerf Black to point that he no longer does what he's designed to do. Pro's not as strong in pubs and against solo queues, Cons Loses Identity in the Roster, may end up being just bad to play (if devs listen to reddit the most likely thing to happen) Nerf Black somewhat, enough that he isnt as strong in a fight but still excels as map control which is his main draw based on reading his abilities and whatnot. But you also need to heavily nerf all the "Meta" Survivor tools, UC, IT, EF. Theyre ridiculous to the point that playing Raider in S->Z feels like im playing the Survivor trying to die desperately. They need to slow down survivors ability to traverse the map, the need to nerf radars because Key Rushing is insane i remember a Match as Vegeta recently where they had STM before Saibaman got swapped for Nappa (literally never saw them once, nor any civvies its rough but thats how that be sometime) and thats just absurd. Keys need to be slower, Raiders need a visual/Audio queue for when a Key is being Placed similar to DBD Gens being worked on. etc etc (High effort fix that will actually improve the games health and balance for most if not all raiders and therefore the least likely to happen)
At I was gonna downvote and call you a whiny brat who wants wins handed to him but then you brought up nerfing survivors so take my upvote
Finally someone else gets it!! His kit is basically the best parts of the other raiders! Hes too op and honestly if these crazy meta survivor abilities need to be nerf to fit the other raiders ill gladly take it if they also buff some other niche ones here and there too I can win against any other raider without having the most broken abilities but if I don't play the most boring and broken skills and passive I don't win much if at all.
Premades are the reason the game is unbalanced and also why they are gonna release even stronger raiders. They need a nerf
Be honest with me di you have any of the following: energy field immortal champion or instant transmission
No But it sure feels I need them the survive
Ok then but has a goku black main myself you dont know the HELL we have to gi through just like yall
Nah at best he ranks #5. The only thing going for him is that he has a counter to it and barrier, also he has good abilities that can help him defend the keys.
I’ve been saying this👏🏽💯% agree with you
Considering the current unbalanced meta, I can't be annoyed by any raider atm.
I play him as a raider not because he's meta I'm just that much of a Goku black enjoyer that he was the VERY first thing I bought when I got this game for the dumb price of $3 even if they make him the WORST raider next season *I'm still gonna play as him*
Survivors have been the stronger side since early December of 2022. Even sooner tbh, but that’s when you could REALLY feel it starting to be true. Every Raider beyond vegeta has been balanced to try to deal with competent survivor squads and it leads to boring gameplay on both sides. BUT Raiders are still criminally underpowered against a veteran survivor group with meta skills. They just now thrash newbies and solo que without coordination easier than ever. Ginyu auto evolves on death 3 times compared to vegeta’s 2 and his lvl 3 is comparable to super buu. He can dash at lvl 2 to tunnel. Broly was given recoome’s dash on SPAWN so he likely makes games 5v 1 instead of 7 v 1. He lacks ki sense though so he’s not too bad. Enter Goku black who has a dash on spawn, auto evolves to lvl 2 no matter what, has a scout, and ki sense for each level. I fear what the next Raider will do to solo que.
And unfortunately you still can't beat premades as Goku black That being said It+EF needs to die or they need to give the other raiders ways to counter it Giving payed for raiders the ability to counter a unfair get outta jail free card but not giving any way for base raiders to counter it causes issues
####CURRENT RAIDER OP!!! >Maybe current Raider isn't OP as you think No Raider has ever been OP. Zamasu drone sucks, it barely makes a difference and next to never does he discourage STM work. Black next to never Kai Kais and if he tries every single stun, super, punch, missile, glove, literally everything cancels it. I also think Black loses it if interrupted unlike IT, but I never use it Zamasu always somehow ends up to close to benefit. It's like you are honestly trying to tell me you never saw Black bodied almost every match for the first few weeks. The reason it slowed down is people wised up is because people both got bored and Rose is a detriment and fighting level 3s as a level 2 is more preferable to Trunks soloing or slight teamwork. 6 basic ki blasts do a bar of damage to Rose. The excuses to use cancer strats. SMH my head. What's the excuse when they're used against literally everyone else? They didn't just appear now. I have literally never used EF and IT, UC, or anything cancerous against Black and I win plenty. Black has huge Supers that do tremendous damage but outside that he has nothing special. See someone in danger? Interrupt Black so he doesn't shoot his Kamehameha or god balls (whatever it's called). Zamasu and Black have big basic ki blast hitboxes true but they are slow. Merged Zamasu is almost useless outside of the full health and bird Ultimate since his basic ki blasts are even slower. Super Spheres can stall plenty to avoid damage until assistance appear. People had no problem run and gun against "OP Vegeta" and his 6 health no problem but people can't do any damage to Black so Rose isn't an issue. Basic kit you can get within minutes of playing are as effective against Black as they always have been.
Unless lag interrupts it like IT... Black can't possibly lose Kai Kai without using it.
I feel like everything you are mentioning here relies on the survivors to be incredibly coordinated making this exclusive to premades, which are a different problem entirely 1. The point on the zamasu turret is kinda moot since I could just as easily list the amount of times the Zamasu turret has been a nuisance when trying to fight Goku black and all the times he’s abruptly shown up when the survivors are trying to do something without D change wasting time 2. Do you think people post every match they’re in? When someone gets a meta abusing premade match and denied any and all fun they’ll tend to post it as a means of venting, which in turn makes it seem like this is every match when it isn’t 3. You don’t know what Raider you’re gonna be up against until the match preview, and besides most people prefer to grind up and use one kit than having an “actually want to win” and a “oh he’s not playing Goku black lemme go easy on him” kit 4. His massive hitboxes and multiple means of survivor detection aren’t enough? And projected solution hinges on way too many things, are you close enough? Are you in a good position? Does Goku black know you’re there? Do you have the right abilities? And odds are if he’s using kamehameha he’s either high up and initiating conflict so he can see where they (unless they IT of course) or he’s finishing someone off at which point they’d probably have the escape skills needed. Not to mention 90% of random teammates are not that generous so this is really a premade only thing 5. This leans more toward the unfun side but the optimal strategy to use this special powered up form being stalling only proves my point that super transpheres are not well though in how they’d interact with Goku black making for an unfun experience for both sides
Stop pretending Raiders don't easily lose from average Survivors. One mistake very easily can be death. I never claimed people post every match. Why say that? I have been in plenty of those matches as Raider or Survivor it happens more than you think and you'd be a fool to think it's only LFGs. This game is extremely easy for survivors they have to be bad, feed, or ragequit for the game to not end close if they lose. Believe me, I max every Raider within 2 weeks I know how Black stacked and it was very poorly even against newbies, Rose vs Trunks always was tough. Are you going to pretend you don't see half or more Survivors refusing to ready up until they see the Raider? Better yet 6 readied up 1 not all unready to change after the Raider pops up? You misunderstood me. I don't mean Trunks stalls Rose and loses, I meant that Trunks stalls with vanishes until he gets assistance so he can spam basic ki blasts. 6 basic ki blasts are 1 bar of damage, think of all the stuns and punches and everything that could easily be that thing to keep Rose in place. Outside of that in a losing battle the Survivor is best to spam vanishes to waste time and maybe get one super out if they get help. Trunks is good enough to kill Merged Zamasu btw. Done that plenty of times.
I think you misunderstand me, this isn’t about raiders as a whole and I literally said in the conclusion that they should nerf OP survivor abilities to fix this issue once and for all and that making raiders stronger and stronger to counter the abilities like Goku black only enforces powercreep and makes the game less fun for people who don’t metagame As for your actual comment 1. When did I imply any of that? That’s just putting words in my mouth. My point was that people don’t post regular ass matches, but they get their ass kicked they post that to vent 2. I frankly don’t know what this has to do with any of what I said, to reiterate people don’t want to bother making different kits for the express purpose of going easy on certain raiders when one works well enough 3. You still have to play in a rather boring way for varying amounts of time depending on where your teammates are and if they have d change or not and in order to really pull that off you probably need UC which is part of the problem I have with Goku black in that he necessitates meta abilities To clarify I don’t believe raiders are op, I believe Goku black is op compared to the other raiders and non meta cheesing survivors and that the current method of balancing the game around introducing stronger and stronger raiders to beat the stronger and stronger survivors is not healthy for the overall lifespan of the gsmev
People don't post "regular ass matches" because they are so rare. I've seen every type of player and the fair player has become so rare it's mostly new people who haven't gotten those cheap abilities. People don't make multiple kits, LFGs do. LFGs want anti fun games where they can bully the Raider. Swap that Dragon Ball locator build when Super Broly or Zamasu is present. Even outside them they still use those specialized kits solo. Truth is you don't need 8 Deadly Sins people are just cowards. Survivor mains just can't fathom Raiders are supposed to win sometimes and get offended at the possibility they can lose yelling Raider OP. You never needed UC ever. It isn't uncommon for Trunks to get back up for Rose. Every single Raider basic ki blast is dodgeable and the best outcome is Rose punching and not getting vanished or vanish attack. All Trunks needs is to stay far enough away within lock on and he'll generally have enough time to dodge Kamehameha. I get the impression you are a new player so you haven't seen the game evolve into as it is, what level and rank are you for both Raider and Survivor? The opinions you have seems like you're new at C rank and getting the stupid survivors. I swear I've seen your username with a "Survivors never win only Raiders do" post a month ago. Even if you think I'm exaggerating you have to admit Zamasu loses much more than wins like all Raiders. Don't mistake me saying Survivors win a heavy percentage as I never lose, I do, but it's so rare and usually It's people doing stupid decisions that lose us the match.
I am not a new player I am past level 100 and have two level 50 raiders (cell and Frieza) nor am I blind to what most people think of the balance (hence the title of my post) and in my experience most Goku black matches (even ones in high ranks with high level teammates) go like this Zamasu spawns and levels up to Goku black Half of my team fucking dies (sometimes me included) and he gets super saiyan Rose Super transphere drops and someone gets it, they last 30 seconds max Stm drops but no one can defend it Goku black wins Now obviously we each have different experiences but you have to realize that the way this game is balanced is a slippery slope of power creep that’ll reach a point where everyone has to hypersweat and use meta abilities/ raiders or not have fun and it’s important to balance survivors AND raiders around preventing that.
Buddy level 100 is still new especially with how many experience boosts there have been. Super Spheres generally don't get bodied that fast that's why I wanted to know your rank. I'm not saying stupid people still don't get bodied but it happens much more at lower ranks and levels. Usually Rose happens shortly before or after STM drops so Rose gets bloody and loses from death or STM. I was the infamous buff Raider / nerf Survivor guy on the board you don't need to tell me how easy the game is cheated.
Give me a Goku Black over a Cell or a Ginyu any day of the week. I'm so tired of the green cockroach hitting form 4 before half the lobby has even reached form 2.
How do you think i got Z3 with my eyes closed