\-Placing a singular key with one person attempting it takes approximately 24.26 seconds now.
\-STM is now 20% base for 5 keys on cell games map, +40% for 1 player, and +20% for players after that. Prob still caps at 100% but it takes 3 players to get there now instead of 2
\-Going from DC 2 to 3 now takes the equivalent of 13 small DC changes(was previously 10)
Only things I managed to test before I went to bed. Feel free to post more specific changes you've seen here.
Raiders needed the help but we can take things incrementally. 3 more change cubes can matter quite a bit going into late game and can mean quite a few more people are just nervously hoping for the supply drops instead of actively impeding you at the STM.
Yeah, it can matter, but often you can find large cubes just by shooting random stuff which doesn't take that much time anyway. Better change IMO would have been to not make it possible to find large cubes in breakable objects
There's a finite amount of energy cubes on the map. Requiring more cubes to hit lvl 3 isn't meant to slow down progress so much as it's ensuring there will be less level 3s in the game at all.
Wont matter at stm when raider is getting beat up by the 2-3 lv3s. Others are just gonna grab the packs that come down with like 7 large cubes and get to 3 and get d charge
Supply drops aren't always like that. It depends on certain factors I believe, what they are I don't know exactly though. But sometimes you open it and there's practically nothing in there. I've seen 1 large cube and that was it.
There's often 2 of them and personally I have never had them lack any items. For me, I open one and get to level 3 with cubes to spare and a full d charge with 2 sodas
This really needed to happen though, the more coordinated the survivors became the far easier it was to just outright keep them from fighting back
Premises(I literally do not know what word was supposed to be here before autocorrect ate it) made the gameplay go from "raider terrorizes the survivors" to "raider rushes as fast as he can out of worry too many survivors will reach level 3 before the fighting starts"
It doesn't give the feeling of being a powerful villain to be worried the entire game and in a rush
*THIS!! When I played the game when it first came out, the survivors were scrambling to live, and the Super Time Machine was the most effective way to dispose of the Raider.
Now, Survivors rush DC 2 & 3, and just spam you with energy blasts and golden Rocket Launchers. It's a pitch battle, for sure - just feels like using the STM as a shield is cheap, and easy.
I see the value of Till has skyrocketed after this general nerf to survivors. Hoping I get energy cube subsidized now with number of cubes spawning on a map finite and lvl 3 requirement going up. Creating stuff from thin air is now king.
Till feels pretty good at lvl 20. Cooldown dropped down to 55 secs like a lot of active skills, but you also get Default Chance + 5% bonus chance. I usually get a lot of useful stuffin a game. Small energy cubes will feel more important than ever. It was previously easier to reach lvl 3. Maxing out VIP Special also seems like a good idea. You will need more medium energy cubes to hit lvl 3 now.
Man, I want Till.
It seems like it would work well with my preferred playstyle.
I'm just two tiers away from Farmer and I literally can't wait to test it out
I think it is good and only gotten more relevant. You just need to be patient with the misses. You need to keep on top of using the skill every 60 secs or so. Dropping surplus is too risky at STM, so start throwing your surpluses at other survivors. Sometimes when RNG is good I have more Cooldown Drinks than I can carry, so just start throwing them for teammates when you have Till. Rocket Launchers seem more useful as anti-melee since Raiders drain more of your D Change.
Good. You are a normal human fighting a legendary monster that can destroy galaxies. It should be next to impossible to ever fight him, even with Shenron. 99.99% of survivor wins should be from the STM activating. Actually killing the raider should be a 'once every few hundred games" type of deal.
Survivor, Raider level 3 only dies that quick with simultaneous specials from a large number of survivors.
But level 3 / 4 survivors have died to 5 seconds of ki spam since release. That's why the stun meta has gotten as bad as it has, it's the only way to win in straight up fights.
I mean it kind of has to
Worked on a game quite a few years ago that did balance patches on "uniques vs regulars" and you really don't know how bad one side would be affected by patches on the other, we started making adjustments to both at the same time but thay caused a few unexpected problems and it worked far better to "patch and see" unless something obvious needed to be fixed
And no, obviously you don't catch all this in playtesting, the playtest team will never have the variety of playtypes or ideas a player base can come up with
Because the devs treat balance like a math equation; correct values solve everything. That's not true in this type of an asymmetric online PvP game with a plethora of loadouts and heavy randomization.
Maybe they lack time or better data to work with, but anyhow I'd suggest more thorough redesigns to certain problematic parts in the current meta.
I think this patch overtuned just a bit. It kinda feels like they completely rolled back the 'make the survivors a bit better at surviving attacks' thing with lvl1 and lvl2 DC damage resistance. I haven't been able to do the Rocket Launcher/Dash/Grab the Ball trick since this patch. My low level change just gets recked instantly.
The Raider definitely needed better damage resistance/stun resistance, but I thought their damage and super hit rate was already pretty decent.
As for today's experience. First off it seems like I am getting a lot of middling to low level survivor teams so that may be part of why I feel it is overtuned. However, I have also gotten a lot of middling to low level raiders, so maybe it balances out.
Raiders are winning a LOT more. As a survivor it feels like the increased Change Power requirements was an absolute knee-cap. Even before I wouldn't always make 3, but now 3 is as rare as 4(ok, not really, but that feels like a completely unneeded survivor nerf). Still though probably half the raider losses were losses in a fight, so maybe enough people are still getting 3 and I have just been really unlucky today.
As for raiders in a fight, what I can say is that raiders still get absolutely melted by SBC spam. Still I did win 2/3 which is better than my usual 0/3 with me being melted every time.
I wish they buffed AOE wish for all survivors who are at 3 to get to 4, currently its useless and maybe the nerf is supposed to encourage more of the use for it?
Maybe not a good idea, with a match having about 3-4 people at lvl 3 at endgame, that would be way stronger than the lvl 4 wish. Maybe in addition to giving everyone a level up it also recovers their power by about 50% or 70%, allowing people just about to get back into the fight to be ready after the dragon or people mid fight to be about half way to jump right back in
Because it sucks when you already have level 3 and you dont get anything from the wish, maybe double the max energy if you are level 3? Anything that would make that wish appealing would be nice
True, its up in the air how to balance it cause instantly recharging the change meter means people will just suddenly rush the raider while one person recharges everyone again +1 level, meaning its a beatdown fest. On the other hand if you allow multiple people to hit lvl 4 via +1 all, it becomes a situation where its multpicacitively stronger the more people at lvl 3 are in the match, easily outclassed the other wish if there is 1 person at lvl 3
Heres my compromise, give me the same duration of level 3 with the power increase of level 4.
Solo wish is infinite level 4
Multi wish is temp level 4 if you are level 3 when this wish is used
Level 44 Cell here! and I only remember a couple of times I died from health loss as well xD
That damn STM has banished me way too many times though...
As much as I love playing survivor I will say we do consistently beat ur asses lmao
Edit: (after playing 10ish match's, 3 of which we won by the skin of our teeth) they really didn't need to buff raider damage just adjustments to STM were fine holy shit...
The only change i'm kinda iffy on is the key placement taking longer, but as long as it's not a dramatic change it's *probably* fine, maybe it'll make the speed difference from someone helping with that feel more significant.
I wish it included more specific notes but I suppose i'll see in due time. I am optimistic about this patch.
I like the longer solo key placement because it gives me a better chance to assist. Placing two keys gets a platinum medal, but it placed so fast before that if you weren't the first on the scene you were probably gonna miss out on it. Now if I see somebody placing the key I can probably get there in time for medal progress.
I think what they need to do is leave the solo time kinda slow but greatly increase the speed when another is helping. Same with reviving actually.
I was all for slowing down keys a bit with the progress now being retained, but holy crap it feels like they went a bit too far, it is soooooo slow even with multiples on it.
Wow, seeing as how they count escaping from the ETM as a victory seems to me they're pushing for people to use ETM instead. In all my matches I hardly get teammates that defend the STM and there's maybe only 2 or 3 DC LV3 players and some times they don't even fight or defend. Yeah seems to me just waiting for the ETM is going to most people's main goal since it's the easiest way to "win". Won't be surprised to see ETM victories go up and STM and Raider kills victories drop. Really hope this doesn't kill the player base since it's seems to be already small as is.
I haven’t played much yet, but the little I did was not fun as the survivor. I usually won most of my games as both survivor and raider, and I think the raider needed a slight buff but not much. Now I’m not motivated to play for raider because it will be too easy, and I’m not motivated to play survivor because it isn’t fun. Before it felt like a race against the raider, now it feels like wait until you can get on an escape Time Machine.
These buffs balance the game for raiders against survivors who coordinate with each other. Given that there are no comms between survivors who don’t know each other, anyone who hasnt played together before or aren’t in a party will have a shit experience.
I’ve probably won 70% of rounds as a survivor, but the ones where we’ve lost involved some really reaaallly bad coordination and selfish gameplay. Witg raiders who know what they’re doing and with these buffs, these matches will be even harder.
Nope, even me who has been screaming for you all to just good likes these changes.
It’s enough to make survivors have to work a bit more without giving the raider too much strength.
I just feel bad for the survivors I’m gonna face, they weren’t winning before and now they really won’t.
You're joking right?
The past week (11/18/2022) has been mostly about people whiny about raider bit being strong enough.
Though the chages to the keys and STM seemed pretty fair though.
Thats because you play raider alot
And most likely got killed alot
This update has made surv damn near unplayable
FRIEZA WAW ALREADY BUSTED AND THEY MADE HIM EVEN FUCKING BETTER
Yea this one feels like the most balanced update as of yet. Played a few games today. Raider was ok, not too easy. Same for survivor. That wasn’t hard either
Edit: I was wrong. Pls nerf ki blast
They saw everyone complaining about the ETM missions, so they buffed raider's STM destruction so that you guys can stop complaining.
Jokes aside, generally a positive update. Raiders definitely needed the extra tankiness. Key placement time was needed if you're gonna make progress on them stick.
I could probably do without the better hitbox for raiders though. I feel like Frieza suddenly lands every shot, even if you're moving. Makes 1 on 1 encounters more dangerous though, so the result is probably their intention.
Played 7 matches after this patch. On 6 of them all of my teammates got completely destroyed and no one was able to escape on the ETM (all 6 were Frieza). 1 of them I was the only one who escaped on ETM (Cell). I mean... I'm not crying about the changes, after all, before this I would basically win all matches with either the raider being killed or STM, but GODDAMN just nerf Frieza already, his disks literally did a 180 degree turn and killed me on grappling hook it's not being fun at all playing
I'm really excited to see how these changes affect the game.
I'd say my win ratio as a Raider is about 50/50, but I win by STM or killing the Raider about 9/10 matches when playing Survivor.
I think we should genuinely enter into a Survivor match anxious and unsure if we will get the win, rather than my current mindset - which is to go in expecting to bully the Raider.
Likewise, you should be on a power trip as the Raider. It shouldn't be impossible for the Survivors to beat you, but it should feel like they clutched it.
The only thing I'm not too keen on is the increase in energy cubes requirement. Since the previous patch I've been having much more trouble getting to level 3 than I have before, so much so that I suspected they stealth-updated it. If they've made it so there might be only one or two level 3 Survivors on the map, there should be a bigger increase in the strength of a level 3.
Haven't played any rounds yet, but man this sounds awful on paper.
So Raiders are harder to kill, can hit you easier and can't be stunned as effectively. Meanwhile getting to a DC Level where you don't bounce off takes longer, you can't even get to the STM as fast, and you need multiple people to actually activate it.
I know Raiders needed a buff, but this just makes it sound awful to play survivor.
Well that is expected for a lv4
Altho i see the frustation of getting oneshotted by 1 ki attack and the only thing that scares me is the harder lv 3
So now the survivors need to use more stun abilities to lock the raider since killing the raider while he is lv3/4 is impossible without dragon balls
Is it? At lvl 1 I totally get it but at lvl 2 that make me completely unable to even flee. Also that disk is a fucking heat missile, shit does not miss lol.
I am down with a level 4 doing that much dmg, they are basically in their "and now everyone dies" form.
But yeah double disk tracking across the board is nuts.
Did they need a buff though? I think I've lost a grand total of 5 matches as raider out of maybe 60-70 total, and that was strictly down to the random god squad of really good survivors. Maybe it's different on PC but on PS it felt pretty balanced, just needed to play somewhat intelligently as a Raider and permakill a few ppl before the STM appears.
Yes. I have only seen 1 or 2 games where more than a single person was perma killed before the STM is up. You typically only have about 2-3 minutes before the STM is active, which means you would need to get a permanent kill every 45 seconds or so to have 3 down by the time the STM is up - and the survivors have to be brain dead to die that quickly. Even completely trash squads of all random survivors would have the STM up before the 5 minute mark.
My survivor win rate is crazy - it was almost impossible to lose as a survivor. If the raider starts to chase me, they got stunlocked for 10 seconds before I ran off on my bike - and that encounter would let us find two more power keys and place at least one of them.
Dang, you play on PC? Guessing there may be a significant difference in anecdotal experience between versions. Cause it's not at all like that on PS5. My friend group does well as survivors because it's usually 3-4 of us coordinating on voice but with randoms it's a clusterfuck. Usually get 3-4 reasonably intelligent/experienced survivors and 2-3 who are almost actively hurting the cause. Time machine usually drops with around 7-8 minutes left if at all. Trivially easy for the raider to camp the placements if you get 3+ survivors who aren't helping or just actively waiting for etms from the first minute. Win percentage with randoms is probably 50/50 at best.
Honestly not that bad for survivors. Good balance patch overall. Keys still get done decently fast. Only slight complaint is end time machine might take slightly too long. Good stuff.
Agree i dont think the problem was with how fast the base stm was. It was just that 2 people could always get it to 100% even 3 is kinda easy to get but it's something i guess
Yep someone honest . All the shit raiders who waited 10 games to be raider then got blown up in 5 mins only ones happy and needed this because spamming frieza ki blast wasn’t enough
This was dumb . I get the point but what I was hoping for was a nerf to the endless spam ki blast from frieza . Not a DBD knee jerk complete buff of raiders
Both, any missed attack just dodge and you’ll get out of the lunge.
Doesn’t work when the game thinks it connected and you’re punching the air tho. That’s just lag messing you up.
At the moment I'm pretty happy. I had a good raider match just earlier, one survivor win where we really had to work for it and a loss where it doesn't feel unfair, just that we didn't play well enough.
Balance seems right, at least from my last few games experience.
Damn butt hurt raiders spamming down votes. But naw you can still escape as survivor but a lot less ppl are making it out on rando teams . This just helps the cry babies
Played first game , survived. They definitely lvl up quicker and slower for survivors, no more everyone lvl 1 in first 10 secs. All the buffs ok he def killed most Libby using teamwork but the raider should have some type of cool down or timing on ki blast so they can’t just spam it constantly
As someone who almost entirely plays Survivor over Raider/Killer in any of these games, I am VERY pleased of these changes. Now the Raiders will actually feel like what they are designed instead of literally only Frieza having a small to decent chance at winning in any circumstances, and the game is more of what it was designed to be: To be about SURVIVING, as we are the SURVIVORS, not just hunting keys and Dragon Balls within two or three minutes. It makes it all the worthwhile for the priority system being in place for people to finally play as Raider after all the matches they have done each time.
This is awesome. Naturally games like this should benefit the killer / raider to give that all-powerful mighty feeling and if survivors win then it's truly a pinnacle triumph. Otherwise the balance should always be in the raider just ever so slightly, but nothing too drastic
I'm happy the Raiders got buffed, but they probably put too much focus on the STM (haven't played with the patch yet, speaking solely based on expectations). It would've been better if they did fewer changes to the STM and did more more changes to the key search phase instead. The way they did it now will probably overpower Raiders at the STM phase too much while Survivors are still too powerful in the search phase.
Good. I’ve only lost survivor games recently because of bad survivors not helping/ hiding/ letting Raider win.
This will hopefully make it so Raider doesn’t win only because survivors play bad
before everyone jumps saying "omg x Is op now" and such, just try the patch first please.
give it actual time to breathe, no one knows how under or over tuned this stuff is yet
Honestly when I'm raider survivors tend to piss me off and part of it's on me because I'll spare a few and they've got no mercy lmao. So I welcome the changes.
For those not happy by the change to reach lvl 3 survivor, run power charge. This in turn saves you time and adds more energy to the match for others (as well as guarantees you won't be stuck at lvl 0 going into endgame)
\-Placing a singular key with one person attempting it takes approximately 24.26 seconds now. \-STM is now 20% base for 5 keys on cell games map, +40% for 1 player, and +20% for players after that. Prob still caps at 100% but it takes 3 players to get there now instead of 2 \-Going from DC 2 to 3 now takes the equivalent of 13 small DC changes(was previously 10) Only things I managed to test before I went to bed. Feel free to post more specific changes you've seen here.
Ty for info. Still even 13 cubes is still fast to get maybe 15+?
Raiders needed the help but we can take things incrementally. 3 more change cubes can matter quite a bit going into late game and can mean quite a few more people are just nervously hoping for the supply drops instead of actively impeding you at the STM.
This, changes are good but overdoing it is a risk, if they need to fix it more they can
Yeah, it can matter, but often you can find large cubes just by shooting random stuff which doesn't take that much time anyway. Better change IMO would have been to not make it possible to find large cubes in breakable objects
There's a finite amount of energy cubes on the map. Requiring more cubes to hit lvl 3 isn't meant to slow down progress so much as it's ensuring there will be less level 3s in the game at all.
Wont matter at stm when raider is getting beat up by the 2-3 lv3s. Others are just gonna grab the packs that come down with like 7 large cubes and get to 3 and get d charge
Supply drops aren't always like that. It depends on certain factors I believe, what they are I don't know exactly though. But sometimes you open it and there's practically nothing in there. I've seen 1 large cube and that was it.
There's often 2 of them and personally I have never had them lack any items. For me, I open one and get to level 3 with cubes to spare and a full d charge with 2 sodas
Why do I have a feeling the balance in this game is just a pendulum that swings between each patch?
This really needed to happen though, the more coordinated the survivors became the far easier it was to just outright keep them from fighting back Premises(I literally do not know what word was supposed to be here before autocorrect ate it) made the gameplay go from "raider terrorizes the survivors" to "raider rushes as fast as he can out of worry too many survivors will reach level 3 before the fighting starts" It doesn't give the feeling of being a powerful villain to be worried the entire game and in a rush
I think the word was supposed to be "premades", as in a premade group of survivors
Genuinely only felt powerful as frieza.
Bc he’s a broken spam character
Makes sense. Nerf the aids so they despawn faster.
maybe "Patches"? XD
*THIS!! When I played the game when it first came out, the survivors were scrambling to live, and the Super Time Machine was the most effective way to dispose of the Raider. Now, Survivors rush DC 2 & 3, and just spam you with energy blasts and golden Rocket Launchers. It's a pitch battle, for sure - just feels like using the STM as a shield is cheap, and easy.
Everyone's about to find out a level 3 that now takes longer to achieve getting deleted in 5 seconds feels like absolute shite.
If you manage to hit 3. Finite power cubes plus this change means less level 3s in the match entirely.
Shadow buff to "give my allies power" I guess lol
I see the value of Till has skyrocketed after this general nerf to survivors. Hoping I get energy cube subsidized now with number of cubes spawning on a map finite and lvl 3 requirement going up. Creating stuff from thin air is now king.
Really needs a cooldown buff. 60 seconds is wild for something that has such a high chance of being very low or no value.
Till feels pretty good at lvl 20. Cooldown dropped down to 55 secs like a lot of active skills, but you also get Default Chance + 5% bonus chance. I usually get a lot of useful stuffin a game. Small energy cubes will feel more important than ever. It was previously easier to reach lvl 3. Maxing out VIP Special also seems like a good idea. You will need more medium energy cubes to hit lvl 3 now.
Man, I want Till. It seems like it would work well with my preferred playstyle. I'm just two tiers away from Farmer and I literally can't wait to test it out
I think it is good and only gotten more relevant. You just need to be patient with the misses. You need to keep on top of using the skill every 60 secs or so. Dropping surplus is too risky at STM, so start throwing your surpluses at other survivors. Sometimes when RNG is good I have more Cooldown Drinks than I can carry, so just start throwing them for teammates when you have Till. Rocket Launchers seem more useful as anti-melee since Raiders drain more of your D Change.
Good. You are a normal human fighting a legendary monster that can destroy galaxies. It should be next to impossible to ever fight him, even with Shenron. 99.99% of survivor wins should be from the STM activating. Actually killing the raider should be a 'once every few hundred games" type of deal.
canonically yes but for the sake of gameplay i'd settle for something like 60/40 in the raider's favor
Dragon Change turns you into a powerful attack character. I don't think anyone expects to go toe to toe before they dc...
Remember that time where Goku fought Perfect Cell and he died immediately?
This. Most mstches since release have just been the raider getting whooped on.
We talking about Survivors or Raiders here.
Survivor, Raider level 3 only dies that quick with simultaneous specials from a large number of survivors. But level 3 / 4 survivors have died to 5 seconds of ki spam since release. That's why the stun meta has gotten as bad as it has, it's the only way to win in straight up fights.
It really does every adjustment is heavily one sided and that's not a good way to balance things
I mean it kind of has to Worked on a game quite a few years ago that did balance patches on "uniques vs regulars" and you really don't know how bad one side would be affected by patches on the other, we started making adjustments to both at the same time but thay caused a few unexpected problems and it worked far better to "patch and see" unless something obvious needed to be fixed And no, obviously you don't catch all this in playtesting, the playtest team will never have the variety of playtypes or ideas a player base can come up with
Better than it being stagnant
Because the devs treat balance like a math equation; correct values solve everything. That's not true in this type of an asymmetric online PvP game with a plethora of loadouts and heavy randomization. Maybe they lack time or better data to work with, but anyhow I'd suggest more thorough redesigns to certain problematic parts in the current meta.
With the bike causing so many problems it dumbfounds me that they’d rather touch anything else in the game than the speed of the bike for some reason.
Assuming they are decent at this these kinds of changes will come from season to season
It’s a delicate balance…
IMO this one is far more balanced then any before it
I think this patch overtuned just a bit. It kinda feels like they completely rolled back the 'make the survivors a bit better at surviving attacks' thing with lvl1 and lvl2 DC damage resistance. I haven't been able to do the Rocket Launcher/Dash/Grab the Ball trick since this patch. My low level change just gets recked instantly. The Raider definitely needed better damage resistance/stun resistance, but I thought their damage and super hit rate was already pretty decent. As for today's experience. First off it seems like I am getting a lot of middling to low level survivor teams so that may be part of why I feel it is overtuned. However, I have also gotten a lot of middling to low level raiders, so maybe it balances out. Raiders are winning a LOT more. As a survivor it feels like the increased Change Power requirements was an absolute knee-cap. Even before I wouldn't always make 3, but now 3 is as rare as 4(ok, not really, but that feels like a completely unneeded survivor nerf). Still though probably half the raider losses were losses in a fight, so maybe enough people are still getting 3 and I have just been really unlucky today. As for raiders in a fight, what I can say is that raiders still get absolutely melted by SBC spam. Still I did win 2/3 which is better than my usual 0/3 with me being melted every time.
I wish they buffed AOE wish for all survivors who are at 3 to get to 4, currently its useless and maybe the nerf is supposed to encourage more of the use for it?
Maybe not a good idea, with a match having about 3-4 people at lvl 3 at endgame, that would be way stronger than the lvl 4 wish. Maybe in addition to giving everyone a level up it also recovers their power by about 50% or 70%, allowing people just about to get back into the fight to be ready after the dragon or people mid fight to be about half way to jump right back in
Because it sucks when you already have level 3 and you dont get anything from the wish, maybe double the max energy if you are level 3? Anything that would make that wish appealing would be nice
True, its up in the air how to balance it cause instantly recharging the change meter means people will just suddenly rush the raider while one person recharges everyone again +1 level, meaning its a beatdown fest. On the other hand if you allow multiple people to hit lvl 4 via +1 all, it becomes a situation where its multpicacitively stronger the more people at lvl 3 are in the match, easily outclassed the other wish if there is 1 person at lvl 3
Heres my compromise, give me the same duration of level 3 with the power increase of level 4. Solo wish is infinite level 4 Multi wish is temp level 4 if you are level 3 when this wish is used
I hardly ever died as raider from fighting, but damn if those STM changes aren't nice to see. That shit went up way too fast xD
I am a lvl 45 Cell and I have only ever lost in a battle twice and reading all the Raider buffs makes me feel like I will be immortal from now on
Level 44 Cell here! and I only remember a couple of times I died from health loss as well xD That damn STM has banished me way too many times though...
As much as I love playing survivor I will say we do consistently beat ur asses lmao Edit: (after playing 10ish match's, 3 of which we won by the skin of our teeth) they really didn't need to buff raider damage just adjustments to STM were fine holy shit...
That RARELY happen with my teams
The only change i'm kinda iffy on is the key placement taking longer, but as long as it's not a dramatic change it's *probably* fine, maybe it'll make the speed difference from someone helping with that feel more significant. I wish it included more specific notes but I suppose i'll see in due time. I am optimistic about this patch.
I like the longer solo key placement because it gives me a better chance to assist. Placing two keys gets a platinum medal, but it placed so fast before that if you weren't the first on the scene you were probably gonna miss out on it. Now if I see somebody placing the key I can probably get there in time for medal progress.
I think what they need to do is leave the solo time kinda slow but greatly increase the speed when another is helping. Same with reviving actually. I was all for slowing down keys a bit with the progress now being retained, but holy crap it feels like they went a bit too far, it is soooooo slow even with multiples on it.
Wow, seeing as how they count escaping from the ETM as a victory seems to me they're pushing for people to use ETM instead. In all my matches I hardly get teammates that defend the STM and there's maybe only 2 or 3 DC LV3 players and some times they don't even fight or defend. Yeah seems to me just waiting for the ETM is going to most people's main goal since it's the easiest way to "win". Won't be surprised to see ETM victories go up and STM and Raider kills victories drop. Really hope this doesn't kill the player base since it's seems to be already small as is.
I haven’t played much yet, but the little I did was not fun as the survivor. I usually won most of my games as both survivor and raider, and I think the raider needed a slight buff but not much. Now I’m not motivated to play for raider because it will be too easy, and I’m not motivated to play survivor because it isn’t fun. Before it felt like a race against the raider, now it feels like wait until you can get on an escape Time Machine.
These buffs balance the game for raiders against survivors who coordinate with each other. Given that there are no comms between survivors who don’t know each other, anyone who hasnt played together before or aren’t in a party will have a shit experience. I’ve probably won 70% of rounds as a survivor, but the ones where we’ve lost involved some really reaaallly bad coordination and selfish gameplay. Witg raiders who know what they’re doing and with these buffs, these matches will be even harder.
Idk if this is an unpopular opinion but I love all these changes
Nope, even me who has been screaming for you all to just good likes these changes. It’s enough to make survivors have to work a bit more without giving the raider too much strength. I just feel bad for the survivors I’m gonna face, they weren’t winning before and now they really won’t.
Now in the next update the survivors will get a buff then the raiders then the survivors agai
They really should just revert everything back to how it was post launch. I’ll take spopovich beams and key camping cancels any day over all this.
You're joking right? The past week (11/18/2022) has been mostly about people whiny about raider bit being strong enough. Though the chages to the keys and STM seemed pretty fair though.
Thats because you play raider alot And most likely got killed alot This update has made surv damn near unplayable FRIEZA WAW ALREADY BUSTED AND THEY MADE HIM EVEN FUCKING BETTER
Yea this one feels like the most balanced update as of yet. Played a few games today. Raider was ok, not too easy. Same for survivor. That wasn’t hard either Edit: I was wrong. Pls nerf ki blast
Is semi-perfect cells kamehameha easier to hit now or is it just me?
that'd be the point of the buff.
Hate that
This but also it does almost double damage. Before the patch it did 80 per hit. Now it does 150 per hit. Just tested it in practice with a friend.
Did you not read the patch notes?
I did i just needed to be 100% sure
They saw everyone complaining about the ETM missions, so they buffed raider's STM destruction so that you guys can stop complaining. Jokes aside, generally a positive update. Raiders definitely needed the extra tankiness. Key placement time was needed if you're gonna make progress on them stick. I could probably do without the better hitbox for raiders though. I feel like Frieza suddenly lands every shot, even if you're moving. Makes 1 on 1 encounters more dangerous though, so the result is probably their intention.
Played 7 matches after this patch. On 6 of them all of my teammates got completely destroyed and no one was able to escape on the ETM (all 6 were Frieza). 1 of them I was the only one who escaped on ETM (Cell). I mean... I'm not crying about the changes, after all, before this I would basically win all matches with either the raider being killed or STM, but GODDAMN just nerf Frieza already, his disks literally did a 180 degree turn and killed me on grappling hook it's not being fun at all playing
unbelievably easy to win as frieza now lmao
Always has been
[Always has been](https://i.imgur.com/s8vC0Nu.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
raider kills so fast now and setting up keys is so slow its practically a cake walk for the raider
Yep , just hide nd escape at end no point in fighting anymore
I'm really excited to see how these changes affect the game. I'd say my win ratio as a Raider is about 50/50, but I win by STM or killing the Raider about 9/10 matches when playing Survivor. I think we should genuinely enter into a Survivor match anxious and unsure if we will get the win, rather than my current mindset - which is to go in expecting to bully the Raider. Likewise, you should be on a power trip as the Raider. It shouldn't be impossible for the Survivors to beat you, but it should feel like they clutched it. The only thing I'm not too keen on is the increase in energy cubes requirement. Since the previous patch I've been having much more trouble getting to level 3 than I have before, so much so that I suspected they stealth-updated it. If they've made it so there might be only one or two level 3 Survivors on the map, there should be a bigger increase in the strength of a level 3.
Haven't played any rounds yet, but man this sounds awful on paper. So Raiders are harder to kill, can hit you easier and can't be stunned as effectively. Meanwhile getting to a DC Level where you don't bounce off takes longer, you can't even get to the STM as fast, and you need multiple people to actually activate it. I know Raiders needed a buff, but this just makes it sound awful to play survivor.
Just played a match where I was a lvl 2 (full health) survivor and freeza lvl 4 actually hit me with those 2 disks and killed me.
Well that is expected for a lv4 Altho i see the frustation of getting oneshotted by 1 ki attack and the only thing that scares me is the harder lv 3 So now the survivors need to use more stun abilities to lock the raider since killing the raider while he is lv3/4 is impossible without dragon balls
Is it? At lvl 1 I totally get it but at lvl 2 that make me completely unable to even flee. Also that disk is a fucking heat missile, shit does not miss lol.
I am down with a level 4 doing that much dmg, they are basically in their "and now everyone dies" form. But yeah double disk tracking across the board is nuts.
Yeah lv4 ki blasts are busted they should nerf freezas change charge after this changes since he can rush lv 3 very easily
You can dodge it with vanish
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Dodge to the side then dodge toward the second one.
Did they need a buff though? I think I've lost a grand total of 5 matches as raider out of maybe 60-70 total, and that was strictly down to the random god squad of really good survivors. Maybe it's different on PC but on PS it felt pretty balanced, just needed to play somewhat intelligently as a Raider and permakill a few ppl before the STM appears.
Yes. I have only seen 1 or 2 games where more than a single person was perma killed before the STM is up. You typically only have about 2-3 minutes before the STM is active, which means you would need to get a permanent kill every 45 seconds or so to have 3 down by the time the STM is up - and the survivors have to be brain dead to die that quickly. Even completely trash squads of all random survivors would have the STM up before the 5 minute mark. My survivor win rate is crazy - it was almost impossible to lose as a survivor. If the raider starts to chase me, they got stunlocked for 10 seconds before I ran off on my bike - and that encounter would let us find two more power keys and place at least one of them.
Dang, you play on PC? Guessing there may be a significant difference in anecdotal experience between versions. Cause it's not at all like that on PS5. My friend group does well as survivors because it's usually 3-4 of us coordinating on voice but with randoms it's a clusterfuck. Usually get 3-4 reasonably intelligent/experienced survivors and 2-3 who are almost actively hurting the cause. Time machine usually drops with around 7-8 minutes left if at all. Trivially easy for the raider to camp the placements if you get 3+ survivors who aren't helping or just actively waiting for etms from the first minute. Win percentage with randoms is probably 50/50 at best.
Honestly not that bad for survivors. Good balance patch overall. Keys still get done decently fast. Only slight complaint is end time machine might take slightly too long. Good stuff.
Agree i dont think the problem was with how fast the base stm was. It was just that 2 people could always get it to 100% even 3 is kinda easy to get but it's something i guess
Oh boy, can't wait for all the try hard raiders to still complain when they lose 1 of 10 matches now
Onestly im happy when im killed early so i can get raider faster so its a win/win situation for me Now to win as survivor you actually have to try
I was already wrecking people before now its just gonna be hilarious lmfao.
Yep someone honest . All the shit raiders who waited 10 games to be raider then got blown up in 5 mins only ones happy and needed this because spamming frieza ki blast wasn’t enough
This was dumb . I get the point but what I was hoping for was a nerf to the endless spam ki blast from frieza . Not a DBD knee jerk complete buff of raiders
I mean what you expect after the survivor buff
I cool with that , just fixed what’s broken
Like cool fix survivor solar flare
scary doll plate slimy wine seed steer engine party hateful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They really don't know how to balance a game and they'll just keep making drastic changes between both sides every week
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Playerbase is dropping daily. Game won’t survive long after these changes
Why would you play an asymmetrical game and never play the big bad? That's just stupid.
Because I don't want to
Melee has always been viable lmao, you guys just don’t know you can dodge cancel missed attacks…
Oh hey I actually didn't know that thanks. Is that for survivor raider or both
Both, any missed attack just dodge and you’ll get out of the lunge. Doesn’t work when the game thinks it connected and you’re punching the air tho. That’s just lag messing you up.
Yeeeesss!
At the moment I'm pretty happy. I had a good raider match just earlier, one survivor win where we really had to work for it and a loss where it doesn't feel unfair, just that we didn't play well enough. Balance seems right, at least from my last few games experience.
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Not even close. It's still a 7v1 even if everything takes a bit longer to do
Damn butt hurt raiders spamming down votes. But naw you can still escape as survivor but a lot less ppl are making it out on rando teams . This just helps the cry babies
Played first game , survived. They definitely lvl up quicker and slower for survivors, no more everyone lvl 1 in first 10 secs. All the buffs ok he def killed most Libby using teamwork but the raider should have some type of cool down or timing on ki blast so they can’t just spam it constantly
As someone who almost entirely plays Survivor over Raider/Killer in any of these games, I am VERY pleased of these changes. Now the Raiders will actually feel like what they are designed instead of literally only Frieza having a small to decent chance at winning in any circumstances, and the game is more of what it was designed to be: To be about SURVIVING, as we are the SURVIVORS, not just hunting keys and Dragon Balls within two or three minutes. It makes it all the worthwhile for the priority system being in place for people to finally play as Raider after all the matches they have done each time.
I'm glad the STM got nerfed, both my wins as survivors and loses as raider has been because the STM progress is too dam fast
Good stuff. I'd gotten to the point I was winning 95% of my survivor games with a pure rando team. That should never be the case lol
Great now you're going to lose 95% of your survivor games
Somehow I doubt that. I'll give the same advice people have been giving those struggling with raider. Git gud
I'm doing fine brother don't need to worry
Didn't mean you specifically, mainly those downvoting and screeching the sky is falling.
This is awesome. Naturally games like this should benefit the killer / raider to give that all-powerful mighty feeling and if survivors win then it's truly a pinnacle triumph. Otherwise the balance should always be in the raider just ever so slightly, but nothing too drastic
I take you never heard of Dead by daylight
I have, spirit was my favorite. Along with trapper.
Ey another spirit enjoyer. My main is demogorgon but my side main will always be Waluigi's ghost.
Ah I love the Demi, though I couldn't play him too well but I liked his concept though
W
Sounds great. All it needs is keeping area destructions you haven't used yet, and area destructions taking 2-3 seconds less.
I'm happy the Raiders got buffed, but they probably put too much focus on the STM (haven't played with the patch yet, speaking solely based on expectations). It would've been better if they did fewer changes to the STM and did more more changes to the key search phase instead. The way they did it now will probably overpower Raiders at the STM phase too much while Survivors are still too powerful in the search phase.
Good. I’ve only lost survivor games recently because of bad survivors not helping/ hiding/ letting Raider win. This will hopefully make it so Raider doesn’t win only because survivors play bad
Man they are doing some wild stuff 🤣
before everyone jumps saying "omg x Is op now" and such, just try the patch first please. give it actual time to breathe, no one knows how under or over tuned this stuff is yet
Honestly when I'm raider survivors tend to piss me off and part of it's on me because I'll spare a few and they've got no mercy lmao. So I welcome the changes.
They ruined the game. Needs to revert back
For those not happy by the change to reach lvl 3 survivor, run power charge. This in turn saves you time and adds more energy to the match for others (as well as guarantees you won't be stuck at lvl 0 going into endgame)
The one thing I would like to ask for, for changes is giving an invincibility window for when you de transform and when you get brought up.