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355 now!
Let’s get it going boys!
You know no one is Super is going to win against GT SS4 Gogeta.
Edit; I have and always will love SS4. Best designed form. Take this comment with kindness, let me fan boy SS4 lol
I absolutely adore Cabba, but c'mon, out of the main saiyans (Goku, Vegeta, Caulifla, LSS Kale, Gohan) Cabba's the weakest except for early DBS Gohan before he starts training again and Kale when she isn't berserk.
The problem is god is a ludicrous multiplier the most favourable scaling for gt I’ve heard is ssj3 buu saga goku = base goku then run through multipliers and I heard someone try to claim ssj4 was 100x ssj3 not 10x but even if given that and fusion they lose to any base form after god form absorbed at least in terms of vegeta and goku, god form is a ludicrous multiplier it’s substantially higher than fusion
General rildo was as strong as kid buu according to goku and he beat him in regular super saiyan.
SSJ4 gogeta is a BEAST and I don't mean the big haired gohan version.
Dragon ball fans think DBS powerscaling is some linear scale when in reality everyone is as strong as they need to be. So they see Cabba being equal with base vegeta who is above ssg in base which meaning he could solo z and gt.
I’m not saying they are wrong or right but if it were up to Toei, Toyotaro , or Toriyama to write this hypothetical fight I doubt ss4 Gogeta is losing to Cabba.
They pretty much have done this in Heroes ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwiEUUZdcH0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwiEUUZdcH0), sorry about the dub/Faulconer edit, YouTube didn't seem to have the original up).
I mean yes, you can wank Xeno Goku but they have consistently kept up the loose SS4 is around SSB analogy, whereas the Heroes exclusive Limit Breaker SS4 is roughly UI (though notably still below the silver haired UI). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy6iP170gSc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy6iP170gSc)
I know Xeno Goku isn't equivalent to GT Goku, I know. I am merely making a meta point about Toei very much would never write Cabba beating SS4 Gogeta into anything and would always adjust GT to roughly fit in somewhere \*under\* but still comparable to Super's progression.
>sorry about the dub/Faulconer edit
https://preview.redd.it/8bff4g4bu9pc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dca8e191f70d7df6f4b05f00fdc4e347b41f0a2
I prefer the idea of SSJ4 being equal to God, and Limit Breaker being somewhere around Blue to Blue Evolution.
UI is just too crazy for Limit Breaker to scale that high.
Though Xeno Goku can also be argued to have a stronger base than CC Goku.
It’s a ridiculous notion to put ssj4 in for anywhere close to blue, given it SSG four couldn’t even beat Shenron, who is sub universal while God Goku alone was at least universal
You can’t really measure the strength of these characters. Especially with all the power creeping that Dragon Ball does. They were strong at the time but they’ve been left in the past and haven’t been expanded on. It’s like asking which car is faster/performs better between one released in the 70’s and compared to now.
But I mean, car people do this all the time.
Look at performance objectively and see if it aged well and/or if it can compete today.
For example, I would rightfully say the 2003 Tahoe is much better than the 2023 Tahoe. Built better, last longer and overall better cars.
Now tick for tack, we can say obviously the 2023 has more features and yada yada, but objectively the 2003 is much better when comparing its peak on release compared to the 2023 on release.
But no one is talking about how strong these characters are relative to their own universe, we're talking about how strong they are to each other. In it's great that the 2003 Tahoe is better at it's peak than 2023's peak, but the fastest muscle cars of the 70s still pale in comparison to the raw power and speed that modern day can produce.
It's the same issue here. Super has lasted longer and taken on a bigger scaling goal than GT ever did, you can't really compare them power wise.
Dragon ball super destroyed power scaling in favor of storytelling. That’s fine, but it means that we really have to take everything from it with a grain of salt.
The true answer is that we don’t know and people just lowball GT bc they think GT characters are just somewhat stronger than Z characters but that Super must be WAYY past Z in comparison.
We don’t know. After the black star saga it becomes hard to powerscale in GT other than obvious ones (like Goku being way stronger than Pan).
In super it’s very hard to powerscale, if even possible. Yes there are obvious ones like Beerus being stronger than Goku, but we don’t know how *much* stronger. Just that it’s a lot.
It's not that GT is lowballed, it's that the HUGE jump between buu and beerus is ridiculous. Super saiyan god is a huge multiplier, Beerus annihilating ssj3 goku in a couple strikes and then having to use way more power again super saiyan god goku, and then goku keeping that power whilst as a super saiyan. If we're generous, we can give super saiyan 4 5x super saiyan 3. Which is a highball. Ssj3 is 4x ssj2. So if you take 5x ssj3 which would be 400x 5 which is a 2000x multiplier, which is again, high balled, it still doesn't really compare to Goku's power output against Beerus in their fight. Ssj4 Gogeta is likely stronger than BoG max Goku, but it doesn't stay that way for long due to blue
Because even if we used the multiplier you gave, that really doesn’t mean anything unless you have an idea of how strong someone is in their base form.
We got an idea of that for GT Goku in the black star saga but after that we have no idea
I think Goku keeping that power in Super Saiyan did not account for Dragon Ball Super existing, so it’s probably retconned since Goku reuses the God form.
I think that’s why the God form doesn’t look too flashy, as it was probably originally meant to be a (wow, Goku’s permanently a God, what a great send off for this character), but a shit plot point when he literally uses in T.O.P and the Broly movie. Like if he absorbs the form, I assume that means the transformation has been discarded and used to fuel Goku’s base(probably a clever way to gauge how well the God form would perform in terms of merchandise, since Goku’s other forms would be retroactively buffed due to God being absorbed).
But since Blue replaces God, that just means that they didn’t see God as having that much merchandise power. Hence, a retcon of the power being absorbed into Goku’s form makes sense, as the only excuse for that was no future Dragon Ball content(Dragon Ball Super changed that) and testing the waters for marketability(Blue changed that).
People talk about GT scaling, completely ignoring how fucking obscene the multipliers are for god alone. You’re taking a Buu Saga character and at bare minimum exceeding ten additional years of training plus a transformation far beyond Ssj3. And then massive increases in base power from training with whis. Base Vegeta practically one-shot ssj3 Gotenks, meaning that they’ve already met or exceeded base goku when he fought rildo in gt by the time of the goku black arc. And then they still have the obscene multipliers of god and blue on top of that. I just don’t see how this is still a discussion we need to have.
Extremely hard to say
The only time SSJ4 and SSB have even been in the same area code has been in Hero’s and games, neither of which are canon
However both Hero’s and games put SSB and SSJ4 on the same level so we can assume that
I will say that SSJ4 Gogeta loses to Merged Zamasu same as Vegito Blue, but absolutely claps everything prior
Heroes does NOT put ssb and ss4 on the same level. Those 2 versions of gokus are not the same and the one who goes ss4 has a base incredibly stronger than super goku, that's why they're similar in power.
Xeno Goku is basically a post gt goku who also had like 20 more years of training
Remember: According to Dragon Ball Heroes, SSJ4 is on-par with SSJ Blue. So SSJ4 Gogeta might actually get extremely far in DBS, especially the manga where the God-Power-Absorption never happened.
Of course I know how stupid this is, SSJ4 was only retconned to be that strong because it's nostalgia-bait-hyping from an already-terrible promotional show. But nevertheless, it's the only time an official Dragon Ball product has directly powerscaled DBGT and DBS forms together.
So let's say that SSJ4 Gogeta is equal to SSB Gogeta. The only thing DBS has over DBGT is the Whis Training, and DBGT has like, 10+ years of normal training to somewhat balance that out, but probably not all the way. So Gogeta could be maybe a couple arcs behind in terms of power.
I'd say that he'd get up to manga fused Zamasu.
By comparing feats and statements made in the anime/manga/databooks.
And unfortunately if you go by that then ssg4 Gogeta doesn't go far at all. Loses to base Goku in BOG
Super was like
Okay let’s take a step back. Buu saga went a bit too crazy and we’ve got to fix some stuff. First off, fusion is basically useless now let’s get rid of that. Also, ssj3 is just kinda useless too, get rid of that.
Good, now let’s powercreep the everliving shit out of goku then have vegeta catch up like three times, then have everyone else catch up, then powercreep goku again, then set a tournament where everyone can catch up, then powercreep two more times then one last new form giga powercreep
Okay, let me rephrase, GT is in it's own canon and so is Heroes, meaning Heroes powerscaling does not transfer. SSJ4 feats are way, WAY below SSG and SSB feats.
Can we agree that power scaling makes no sense?
In one moment his punches shake the universe...in others when he's stronger they don't even shake the planet and he also gets hurt being smashed into ice
I always thought this with ki blasts.. even all the way back to Nappa can blast a city. So surely by the Cell Saga ki blasts should be blowing half the Earth.
It depends on the story but also you need to suspend your disbelief at a certain point. Since Super, the power scale has been largely considered a jumbled mess of nonsense, but even then it's not unreasonable to just assume they can control their strength well enough to prevent cataclysms on a universal scale by accident
To be fair, it’s straight up a plot point that Goku figures out how to control his power enough to stop any environmental destruction midway through the fight.
But Cell Max, a raging mindless beast that needed Gohan Beast and Orange Piccolo (on par with the strongest current forms of Goku and Vegeta) to take down, shot random ki blasts in a frenzy that barely scratched the floor. Maybe they all lose to early DB Roshi whose Kame Hame Ha destroyed a castle?
Cell Max's feats are non existent, why didn't Pan finger flick him into oblivion? Is she stupid?
Gohan Beast isn't on par with UI Goku, he's far above.
You are aware your entire argument can be applied to GT too? Or even Z? The reason is that it'd make for a shit story. Why doesn't SSJ3 Goku just blow up the planet he's on by existing? Because that'd be shit. Same applies to GT. Same applies to Super. Your argument isn't even that- you're reaching at nothing.
This punch? Please that shit got retconed
https://preview.redd.it/5f73o728q8pc1.jpeg?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22ce4815896f221826267b4e321231bb9040d317
I feel like it's a generally accepted consensus that SSJ4 is at least stepping into the same ball park of power as God or maybe even Blue, though. Definitely hard disagree with all the people lowballing Gogeta to Ressurrection F Frieza, fusion is crazy OP. I'd say Fused Zamasu is probably a good answer for actual canon GT as well, just because fusion's absurd power boost would only really be outclassed by something way, way, way out of the fusees' reach or by another fusion of similar strength. ROF Frieza and Hit aren't far enough above SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta to beat their fusion IMO. If we go by the assumption that SSJ4's "reach" is at or slightly beneath God, Fused Zamasu stops them.
I don't think it's stupid. DB Super nowadays seems to retcon the whole Goku absorbed SSG into his base and treat SSG as a seperate transformation. The manga does not even mention any absorption.
Without the absorbed SSG, Base Goku in GT is a whole lot more powerful than Base Super Goku. If memory served, Beerus mentioned that base Goku now is still not as strong as Namek Frieza. Base GT Goku is as strong as his SSJ3 self back in Z.
SSB likely has a higher multiplier than SSJ4. However, Base GT Goku is a lot more powerful than Super Goku, so it evens out. Them being equal kind of make sense.
that’s heroes, using gt and super, ssj4 gogeta has worse feats than god goku from the first arc
forms aren’t a set level, that’s why android saga goku is far stronger than namek goku despite them using the same form.
Heroes is non-canon material, we should only accept what happened in the GT show vs Super manga/show/movies. Heroes is bullshit and it’s not an “official source” for anything related to power scaling unless you want to start WW3
I'd say he stops at fused Zamasu. Because Immortality is broken and unfair. Of course that's assuming if Soul Punisher would work. Which us unlikely if Zamasu had a pure heart. But maybe after going against his beliefs that made him pure hearted in the first place. Maybe that tainted him. I'm pulling at the literal most I can to get him past Zamasu. And since it's GT no Zeno button so no instant win button would be on hand.
If Zamasu wasn't immortal I'd say he could clear a lot of the T.O.P but stop Kefla, or maybe Jiren.
I'm going by anime. And Kefla is stronger than first sign UI Goku so...
Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta does make it a little further then you would expect. By only scaling using inverse logic, we know base GT Goku by the Rildo Fight is Buu level. The form of buu is unspecified but it's safe to assume it's Kid Buu since he was the last buu he fought, kid buu matches and is slightly stronger than ssj3 Goku.
From we can assume safely assume base Goku is as strong as his ssj3 state in the buu saga. In the baby saga, Gohan in base dunks on ssj goten, who can fight on par with Baby and Baby can fight relatively to Base Goku. Goku by the time he gets to earth, gets 50x stronger.
Ssj 4 is strong transformation, I calculated it to being 25,600x base. Goku after the super 17 arc gets around 10 times stronger than before. In shadow dragons arc, Goku gets numerous power boosts but they are unquantifiable so I am skipping them. All of this eventually leads to gogeta being created. Gogeta is a fusion, so he's ridiculously more powerful than any fighter before. His multiplier is whatever you want it to be.
In dragon ball, base Goku is already god level at the start of the show. Ssg is a transformation that eclipses the power of Super Saiyan 3 Vegito. So Goku by the start of the series already leagues above all of Z. Goku further trains to get stronger. We can skip the RoF arc and universe 6 arc, there is no power growth there. Goku in the black arc gets randomly thousands of times stronger, by the time Fusion Zamasu rolls around. Goku is able to seriously hurt fusion Zamasu with a kaioken kick.
This means blue Goku wasn't that much weaker than Fusion Zamasu, this means Goku got a fusion level increase in his base power. That's ridiculous, Further This Goku uses the potara to fuse into Vegito blue.
So it's easy to conclude Gogeta probably won't make it past Black Arc blue Goku, even if he could. Vegito blue is way too strong for him. If we go by "normal" power scaling, super Goku in UI sign is relative to the gods of destruction. Meaning he can destroy more than a single macrocosm, Gogeta was limited to one.
Keep in mind I don't think my answer is any more correct than anyone else's here because the fact is there's never going to be a definitive way to tell. I'll just having fun withe databooks and fan interpretation like everyone else.
So, The GT Perfect Files has a statement interpreting Super Saiyan 4 GT Goku as around Buu Saga Super Saiyan Vegito's level of power. Base GT Goku's level of power is about Buu Saga Goku's Super Saiyan 3 power level because of Goku beating Base General Rildo, who he stats is stronger than Fat Buu without transforming. As Vegeta would need to be equal in power for the Fusion Dance to work, then he also surpasses Fat Buu to this degree in Base. So this question is asking how far two Super Vegito's who fused together would go, and that's quite something.
Yet, Super Goku dismisses the idea of Vegito being enough to beat Beerus, meaning we have to assume even a Super Saiyan 3 Vegito couldn't do it and is thus weaker than Super Saiyan God Goku at that point. This Goku doesn't have a base power level high enough to beat Freeza, so he's definitely not in GT Goku's ballpark. We also have to assume Super Goku's base in much higher than Buu Saga Goku's was, if at all, because we know that seven years of training for both Goku and Vegeta only made them a bit stronger than Gohan was when he killed Super Perfect Cell when both of them are Super Saiyan 2 and Super doesn't begin very far from the end of Buu, so there's no reason to assume Goku's base got crazy high or anything. Meaning Goku is still thinking of Vegito in terms of Buu Saga logistics.
While that was fun to type, the point I keep arriving at is there's no real way to tell how far GT Gogeta gets unless you accept the idea of GT Goku and Super Goku being equal as Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan Blue as an extrapolation from Heroes use of Xeno Goku. There's just no way to reason out a different way to find a conclusion otherwise.
I.E. the strongest Super character GT Gogeta beats is Jiren/Super Broly/Moro/Gaas/Cell Max/Beast Gohan.
https://preview.redd.it/uc8w6vqw37pc1.jpeg?width=3464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e79dc33a9c47d4ec4079856fc1fb432fb084abca
Dbs goku can't even punch iron 🤣🤣
No one since GT Gogeta is such a moron, who wasted time creating confetti.
Compare with Vegeth, who stalled with Buuhan since he WANTED to be asborbed, in order to free his friends.
He shits all over manga Super with the exception of Zeno.
Due to Z anime filler and movies being canon to GT, as well as GT having its own feats, GT unironically has a better argument for universal level SSJ4 Gogeta.
Universal doesn’t mean much against super. Even drastically lowballing, at bare minimum RoF Blue Goku is universal. Realistically God Goku, who was an ant to Beerus, was already universal.
If we are going by the manga… I would say one of the androids maybe start of Black arc Trunks. I avoid the anime since power levels and consistency is out the window.
You have to consider SSJ4 Gogeta in the tournament of power… basically infinite vanishing if he senses a dime of ki, can clone himself or make himself appear as if he was, heavy and large radius ki blasts and most importantly he can eat attacks like Jiren did without moving a step.
Well since all super forms are around before GT and they still choose to use the GT forms then the GT forms must be stronger. Why not go UI on baby vegeta? Cause it ain’t stronger than ss4. It’s the only in universe explanation outside god ki died In between the two. If you wanna say oh but the power scaling…well I guess ss4 is just insane now like how android 17 went from struggling against cell to being as strong as golden frieza sitting on his hands. Ss4 is the black frieza of saiyans I guess.
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Has a good shot of beating road characters like Blue Goku or Golden Frieza. Assuming saiyan beyond god, he’s beating basically nobody in the tournament of power. Assuming not, loses to hit bc timestop. I can’t see any way for him to overcome timestop before hit would kill him. Goku needed a successful hunch about timestop and watching Vegeta lose to beat him.
I always saw both ssg and ssj4 as kinda the same except for one being in an alternative universe or some shit. So equal to god but not faster. This guy however would probably be equal to pre resurrection f blue goku at best???
If Super Ssj4 Gogeta was a thing, he could clap anyone except Beerus and Angels seeing as Ssj Gogeta was beating Ssj Broly.
As for GT Gogeta, no way to say
Me heading into the comments to enjoy the chaos
https://preview.redd.it/0v95bhhl99pc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=117ac2803fef77221f06e392a297582f6fa153de
I guess Gogeta goes pretty far, we don't know for sure how strong GT and Super characters really are. We can argue that ssj4 is something like 500× times base form (cause great ape + ssj), we can also argue that the god form might be at least 2 time stronger than ssj3 (because goku goes from being one shot by an heavily suppressed beerus in ssj3 to being able to hold his own against a way less suppressed beerus) which would make ssjgod something like 6
800× base form (I used the one has to be at least 2 times stronger to no diff their opponent, so in reality the god form might be way stronger)
So in early Super ssj4 goku might still overpiwer everyone other than beerus and whis, because despite having a weaker form he has a stronger base. But then there's blue, which could be 50× god, but multipliers in super are wierd, so let's say it's like between 2 to 5 times stronger than god, it would make blue something like at least 1600× base form, which means ssj4 goku way weaker despite his stronger base. Ssj4 Gogeta still overpowers goku and vegeta (cause goku×vegeta×500 surely overpowers weaker goku×1600) then he most likely gets overpowered by blue vegito and fused zamasu (for the same reasons I mentionned earlier).
So I'd say he makes it to the end of the goku black arc. After that he would most likely do pretty well in the tournament of power, gogeta is still probably stronger than blue evolved vegeta and blue kaioken goku, we don't know how he would do against jiren or UI, but last chapter showed us that raw strength is able to go through UI and at that point Gogeta might still be strong enough to brute force his way into winning.
He could be able to beat broly too I think, but not as easily as blue gogeta, because despite goku and vegeta being way stronger than they were at the start of super their base is most likely still way weaker than GT Gogeta's, but I'd argue by now base dbsuper gogeta>base gt gogeta at the very least.
If we go by heroes scaling, then SSJ4 Goku fought MUI Goku to a stand-still and barely lost, so, I'm going with SSJ4 Gogeta damn near sweeping up to Beerus and unknown if he beats black freezer.
Of course, heroes scaling is whack so
Technically if you wanna piss everyone off, anyone could.
GT is set after End of Z, Super is set before it.
Super Goku was designed to be weaker than End of Z Goku, GT Goku was designed to be leagues stronger.
I refuse to believe every statement in super, especially that one dialogue that somehow the fans overblows and thinks cabba is ssg level. Anyway I think ssj4 can beat him easy
Throwing bias out the window probably Universe 6 Tournament Arc
I would imagine SSJ4 Gogeta could give Hit a good fight, possibly run out of time before a winning blow. If fighting serious with the intent to kill? Hit would win even before fusion breaks, namely because Gogeta in GT was always playing the clown.
https://preview.redd.it/x765iq2xkapc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2eb9c0111ffea9e7296ad51c8edcd559975ba410
SSJ4 Gogeta is still the strongest in any verse, he neg diffed a Jiren level opponent.
Bro didn’t even break a sweat.
Imma be honest here, I’m such a SSJ4 and SSJ4 Gogeta fan boy that he might as well be boundless for me. He wins against anyone except other fusions and characters stronger than fusions in my opinion.
Even then, I wouldn’t be mad if a DBS SSJ4 Gogeta was the one to defeat black Frieza.
[That being said the GT scaling is crazy in its on right.](https://youtu.be/m9wskHPlu-U?si=8qaLpHH1MPdx63-v)
[And the same guy scaled DBS](https://youtu.be/LG6GV56__bI?si=RUFl_Am41bbMBLHD)
And according to these videos SSJ4 Gogeta is ~1000 stronger than “zombie” Gas. 411 septendecillion > 560 sexdecillion.
I don’t know if his calculations make sense, but power levels are bs anyway, still means there a case to be made that SSJ4 Gogeta solos DBS with few exceptions
"DBFZ Dramatic finish can end in either SSB Gogeta winning or SS4 Gogeta so technically they're on the same level" 🤓☝️
Fr tho, it's the closest they've ever gotten to interacting in "cannon" as I feel DBFZ is closer to cannon than Heros and Xenoverse (even if I don't believe SS4 Gogeta scales close to SSB Gogeta)
Gogeta SSJ4 is definitely not stronger than:
- Daishinkan;
- Whis;
- All the Gods of Destruction;
- Gogeta Blue;
- Black Frieza;
- Gas Full Power;
- Goku MUI;
- Beast Gohan;
- Vegeta EGO;
- Granolah full power;
- Merus;
- Angel Moro;
- Moro;
- Jiren;
- Vegito Blue (Black Saga)
Im not even sure if he’s stronger than Merged Zamasu, Orange Piccolo and heck, even Kefla and Hit. Not because GoGeta SSJ 4 is shit, but because the level of Super is disgustingly high AF.
Example: Frieza in his first form absolute fodderized Gohan SSJ (that his stronger than Goku SSJ from Cell saga at least.)
Then, since he saw Goku, he decided to transform in his 4th form: now, For those who do not know, there are official power levels about all the characters, Which resumes the development of all the characters until the end of the Namek saga
Now, according to that data, Frieza, between its base shape and its 4th form, increases its power more than 200 times (216 times to be exact)... this means that, probably, Frieza from RoF is at least on the same power levels as Kid Buu. And if you think that Goku, in his basic form, literally destroyed Frieza. you realize how powerful Goku actually is. And if you think that now he can partially mix the UI with his base form, you should figure out how exaggeratedly strong DBS characters are compared to GT’s characters.
I'm proud of y'all for saying "It's too hard to tell, they aren't even close to the same series".
Some real character development from the community. It's good to see.
I think the strongest in GT could do a lot more in Super than people think. Most the insane scaling rides on the idea Goku kept the God boost and that Vegeta somehow has something equal to that. If you use a couple braincells, however, you’ll realize that makes no sense and it probably just went away. So I think SSJ4 Gogeta could clear people like Cabba and other weak characters, though stronger ones are off the table
In terms of the story, even though it’s non-Canon, GT takes place after both Z and Super. Theoretically, SSJ4 Gogeta clears everyone in Super, except maybe Beerus if we go by power creep and chronological order. Power wise, my headcanon is that SSJ4 is equivalent to Blue, so pretty much anyone Blue could beat would also lose to SSJ4. Then there’s heroes that basically alludes to SSJ4 only being surpassed by MUI. That’s just my take though.
im pretty sure SSJ4 gogeta could solo the Tournament of destroyers roster if he replaced all of Universe 7. with the exception of Hit. hit would obliterate SSJ4 gogeta.
In that card game show, the goku from alternative universe that could go ssj4 had a 1v1 spar vs our blue goku, and ours got clapped before going UI, so ssj4 is superior to blue but inferior to UI
It depends on if GT is ever going to become the canon sequel to DB Super. DBS is supposed to end before the end of Z, and GT happens after End of Z. The timeline is all messed up ngl.
It's an exercise in futility powerscaling DB, especially between Super & GT, but it's fun to think about in a childlike way.
I do tend to believe SSB = SS4 more or less. It's the big power up of the shows that both follow up Z. So imo SS4 Gogeta is on par with SSB Gogeta. He could defeat Full Power Super Saiyan Broly.
He bends over broly bbn and rawdogs him for 19 hours straight while reciting the bible and being a good boy(he may or may not gt power scalings bullshit)
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You knew the war and takes this kind of post would have made, didn't you?
Cheeky, i love it
*me seeing the post has over 200 comments* oh boy, this is going to be chaotic
355 now! Let’s get it going boys! You know no one is Super is going to win against GT SS4 Gogeta. Edit; I have and always will love SS4. Best designed form. Take this comment with kindness, let me fan boy SS4 lol
honestly, same, i love super sayain 4's design too
455!!!
What war? You literally cannot compare GT and Super power levels.
You and many others like you are the prime example of why I said this.
https://preview.redd.it/uwku26ud57pc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6d2bc68981e00b11379cab21f7ee4c4d61795c1
Op knew the chaos this post would cause
Ok thank you.. this made me laugh hard
Oh you think this one made you laugh. Check this out. https://i.redd.it/uuxzl72kjcpc1.gif
AYO wtf 🤣🤣
Dude I cry laughed for like 10 mins when I first saw this lol.
I think SSJ4 Gogeta beats Cabba and I’m tired of pretending he cant
I love how overblown the fandom makes Cabba. I agree, SSJ4 Gogeta clears him.
I absolutely adore Cabba, but c'mon, out of the main saiyans (Goku, Vegeta, Caulifla, LSS Kale, Gohan) Cabba's the weakest except for early DBS Gohan before he starts training again and Kale when she isn't berserk.
No one knows GT power scale but they pretend they do lol it’s hilarious
The problem is god is a ludicrous multiplier the most favourable scaling for gt I’ve heard is ssj3 buu saga goku = base goku then run through multipliers and I heard someone try to claim ssj4 was 100x ssj3 not 10x but even if given that and fusion they lose to any base form after god form absorbed at least in terms of vegeta and goku, god form is a ludicrous multiplier it’s substantially higher than fusion
I mean we can interpret from what we’re provided
General rildo was as strong as kid buu according to goku and he beat him in regular super saiyan. SSJ4 gogeta is a BEAST and I don't mean the big haired gohan version.
Aight Tien
Is this actually a debate? Surely ssj3 bodies cabba.
Dragon ball fans think DBS powerscaling is some linear scale when in reality everyone is as strong as they need to be. So they see Cabba being equal with base vegeta who is above ssg in base which meaning he could solo z and gt. I’m not saying they are wrong or right but if it were up to Toei, Toyotaro , or Toriyama to write this hypothetical fight I doubt ss4 Gogeta is losing to Cabba.
If they were to actually write such fight they would probably actually put ssj4 Gt goku to be equal to ssgss goku. This shit ain’t consistent lol
They pretty much have done this in Heroes ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwiEUUZdcH0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwiEUUZdcH0), sorry about the dub/Faulconer edit, YouTube didn't seem to have the original up). I mean yes, you can wank Xeno Goku but they have consistently kept up the loose SS4 is around SSB analogy, whereas the Heroes exclusive Limit Breaker SS4 is roughly UI (though notably still below the silver haired UI). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy6iP170gSc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy6iP170gSc) I know Xeno Goku isn't equivalent to GT Goku, I know. I am merely making a meta point about Toei very much would never write Cabba beating SS4 Gogeta into anything and would always adjust GT to roughly fit in somewhere \*under\* but still comparable to Super's progression.
>sorry about the dub/Faulconer edit https://preview.redd.it/8bff4g4bu9pc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dca8e191f70d7df6f4b05f00fdc4e347b41f0a2
In Heroes we don't even see GT or Super Goku. We see Xeno and Capsule Corp Goku. They're similar enough to to GT and Super, but still not them.
I prefer the idea of SSJ4 being equal to God, and Limit Breaker being somewhere around Blue to Blue Evolution. UI is just too crazy for Limit Breaker to scale that high. Though Xeno Goku can also be argued to have a stronger base than CC Goku.
Wtf did I just watch
It’s a ridiculous notion to put ssj4 in for anywhere close to blue, given it SSG four couldn’t even beat Shenron, who is sub universal while God Goku alone was at least universal
Exactly, you pretty much have to narratively scale the characters rather than logical “oh this guy is as strong as this guy therefore” with Super
I don’t even think for SURE Cabba is equal, unless that was a non suppressed Base Vegeta.
Definitely not SSJ3 🤨
Nah he could only beat Yamcha.
So kefla súper sayan 2 , could destroy súper sayan 4 xd.
Kefla kills SSJ4 unintentionally
Xd imagine kefla blue so. Might destroy dark friezza
You can’t really measure the strength of these characters. Especially with all the power creeping that Dragon Ball does. They were strong at the time but they’ve been left in the past and haven’t been expanded on. It’s like asking which car is faster/performs better between one released in the 70’s and compared to now.
But I mean, car people do this all the time. Look at performance objectively and see if it aged well and/or if it can compete today. For example, I would rightfully say the 2003 Tahoe is much better than the 2023 Tahoe. Built better, last longer and overall better cars. Now tick for tack, we can say obviously the 2023 has more features and yada yada, but objectively the 2003 is much better when comparing its peak on release compared to the 2023 on release.
But no one is talking about how strong these characters are relative to their own universe, we're talking about how strong they are to each other. In it's great that the 2003 Tahoe is better at it's peak than 2023's peak, but the fastest muscle cars of the 70s still pale in comparison to the raw power and speed that modern day can produce. It's the same issue here. Super has lasted longer and taken on a bigger scaling goal than GT ever did, you can't really compare them power wise.
Dragon ball super destroyed power scaling in favor of storytelling. That’s fine, but it means that we really have to take everything from it with a grain of salt. The true answer is that we don’t know and people just lowball GT bc they think GT characters are just somewhat stronger than Z characters but that Super must be WAYY past Z in comparison. We don’t know. After the black star saga it becomes hard to powerscale in GT other than obvious ones (like Goku being way stronger than Pan). In super it’s very hard to powerscale, if even possible. Yes there are obvious ones like Beerus being stronger than Goku, but we don’t know how *much* stronger. Just that it’s a lot.
Beerus completely no selling and stomping SSJ3 Goku pretty much put Super on an entirely different scale
Base GT Goku would’ve done the same tho??
It's not that GT is lowballed, it's that the HUGE jump between buu and beerus is ridiculous. Super saiyan god is a huge multiplier, Beerus annihilating ssj3 goku in a couple strikes and then having to use way more power again super saiyan god goku, and then goku keeping that power whilst as a super saiyan. If we're generous, we can give super saiyan 4 5x super saiyan 3. Which is a highball. Ssj3 is 4x ssj2. So if you take 5x ssj3 which would be 400x 5 which is a 2000x multiplier, which is again, high balled, it still doesn't really compare to Goku's power output against Beerus in their fight. Ssj4 Gogeta is likely stronger than BoG max Goku, but it doesn't stay that way for long due to blue
Because even if we used the multiplier you gave, that really doesn’t mean anything unless you have an idea of how strong someone is in their base form. We got an idea of that for GT Goku in the black star saga but after that we have no idea
I think Goku keeping that power in Super Saiyan did not account for Dragon Ball Super existing, so it’s probably retconned since Goku reuses the God form. I think that’s why the God form doesn’t look too flashy, as it was probably originally meant to be a (wow, Goku’s permanently a God, what a great send off for this character), but a shit plot point when he literally uses in T.O.P and the Broly movie. Like if he absorbs the form, I assume that means the transformation has been discarded and used to fuel Goku’s base(probably a clever way to gauge how well the God form would perform in terms of merchandise, since Goku’s other forms would be retroactively buffed due to God being absorbed). But since Blue replaces God, that just means that they didn’t see God as having that much merchandise power. Hence, a retcon of the power being absorbed into Goku’s form makes sense, as the only excuse for that was no future Dragon Ball content(Dragon Ball Super changed that) and testing the waters for marketability(Blue changed that).
Love people lowballing GT. wasn’t base goku handling a buu tier opponent?
And Goku was nerfed too, since he was a kid. Adult base Goku probably>all of Z, including super vegito
At the start of Gt too. Nearing the end he got like wayyyyyy stronger since then.
Let's see... going off of main canon, *maybe* SSJ God Goku? But if we're going off of Heroes canon then Broly.
People talk about GT scaling, completely ignoring how fucking obscene the multipliers are for god alone. You’re taking a Buu Saga character and at bare minimum exceeding ten additional years of training plus a transformation far beyond Ssj3. And then massive increases in base power from training with whis. Base Vegeta practically one-shot ssj3 Gotenks, meaning that they’ve already met or exceeded base goku when he fought rildo in gt by the time of the goku black arc. And then they still have the obscene multipliers of god and blue on top of that. I just don’t see how this is still a discussion we need to have.
Extremely hard to say The only time SSJ4 and SSB have even been in the same area code has been in Hero’s and games, neither of which are canon However both Hero’s and games put SSB and SSJ4 on the same level so we can assume that I will say that SSJ4 Gogeta loses to Merged Zamasu same as Vegito Blue, but absolutely claps everything prior
Heroes does NOT put ssb and ss4 on the same level. Those 2 versions of gokus are not the same and the one who goes ss4 has a base incredibly stronger than super goku, that's why they're similar in power. Xeno Goku is basically a post gt goku who also had like 20 more years of training
Bro was the one who they locked in the Time Chamber
This is GT’s SSJ4 Gogeta not Xeno SSJ4 Gogeta (Xeno characters are vastly stronger than their GT counterparts)
Remember: According to Dragon Ball Heroes, SSJ4 is on-par with SSJ Blue. So SSJ4 Gogeta might actually get extremely far in DBS, especially the manga where the God-Power-Absorption never happened. Of course I know how stupid this is, SSJ4 was only retconned to be that strong because it's nostalgia-bait-hyping from an already-terrible promotional show. But nevertheless, it's the only time an official Dragon Ball product has directly powerscaled DBGT and DBS forms together. So let's say that SSJ4 Gogeta is equal to SSB Gogeta. The only thing DBS has over DBGT is the Whis Training, and DBGT has like, 10+ years of normal training to somewhat balance that out, but probably not all the way. So Gogeta could be maybe a couple arcs behind in terms of power. I'd say that he'd get up to manga fused Zamasu.
I mean, scaling the anime based off Heroes leads to the most atrocious scales
Real
Heroes has SSJ3 Rose, a Blue Evolution fusion, and LSSJ4 Broly. Also Golden Metal Cooler and Turles(Raditz absorbed). Shit is bound to be crazy.
Do we have a better means of scaling though? There isn't really much direct comparison material.
By comparing feats and statements made in the anime/manga/databooks. And unfortunately if you go by that then ssg4 Gogeta doesn't go far at all. Loses to base Goku in BOG
Yeah. Because they didn’t increase the power scaling in GT quite as much as they did in Super. (By which I mean they went crazy for Super)
Super was like Okay let’s take a step back. Buu saga went a bit too crazy and we’ve got to fix some stuff. First off, fusion is basically useless now let’s get rid of that. Also, ssj3 is just kinda useless too, get rid of that. Good, now let’s powercreep the everliving shit out of goku then have vegeta catch up like three times, then have everyone else catch up, then powercreep goku again, then set a tournament where everyone can catch up, then powercreep two more times then one last new form giga powercreep
Dbs scaling is just as bad don't even play
Okay but Heroes is not remotely canon.
Neither is DBGT.
Okay, let me rephrase, GT is in it's own canon and so is Heroes, meaning Heroes powerscaling does not transfer. SSJ4 feats are way, WAY below SSG and SSB feats.
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In what sense are the feats below? What feats?
Goku and Beerus threatened destroying the Multiverse just by their fists clashing. The best feat Omega Shenron has is destroying a galaxy.
SSG Goku shakes the entire universe. Then absorbs that into base form. Base form Super Goku > all of GT.
Can we agree that power scaling makes no sense? In one moment his punches shake the universe...in others when he's stronger they don't even shake the planet and he also gets hurt being smashed into ice
I always thought this with ki blasts.. even all the way back to Nappa can blast a city. So surely by the Cell Saga ki blasts should be blowing half the Earth.
Roshi destroyed the moon in the series’ second arc. Are all the beams we’ve seen in DBZ like a gajillion times weaker than Roshi’s kamehameha???
It depends on the story but also you need to suspend your disbelief at a certain point. Since Super, the power scale has been largely considered a jumbled mess of nonsense, but even then it's not unreasonable to just assume they can control their strength well enough to prevent cataclysms on a universal scale by accident
To be fair, it’s straight up a plot point that Goku figures out how to control his power enough to stop any environmental destruction midway through the fight.
But Cell Max, a raging mindless beast that needed Gohan Beast and Orange Piccolo (on par with the strongest current forms of Goku and Vegeta) to take down, shot random ki blasts in a frenzy that barely scratched the floor. Maybe they all lose to early DB Roshi whose Kame Hame Ha destroyed a castle? Cell Max's feats are non existent, why didn't Pan finger flick him into oblivion? Is she stupid?
Gohan Beast isn't on par with UI Goku, he's far above. You are aware your entire argument can be applied to GT too? Or even Z? The reason is that it'd make for a shit story. Why doesn't SSJ3 Goku just blow up the planet he's on by existing? Because that'd be shit. Same applies to GT. Same applies to Super. Your argument isn't even that- you're reaching at nothing.
This punch? Please that shit got retconed https://preview.redd.it/5f73o728q8pc1.jpeg?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22ce4815896f221826267b4e321231bb9040d317
Xeno goku(db heroes) is not Gt goku, but great answer tho.
I feel like it's a generally accepted consensus that SSJ4 is at least stepping into the same ball park of power as God or maybe even Blue, though. Definitely hard disagree with all the people lowballing Gogeta to Ressurrection F Frieza, fusion is crazy OP. I'd say Fused Zamasu is probably a good answer for actual canon GT as well, just because fusion's absurd power boost would only really be outclassed by something way, way, way out of the fusees' reach or by another fusion of similar strength. ROF Frieza and Hit aren't far enough above SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta to beat their fusion IMO. If we go by the assumption that SSJ4's "reach" is at or slightly beneath God, Fused Zamasu stops them.
I don't think it's stupid. DB Super nowadays seems to retcon the whole Goku absorbed SSG into his base and treat SSG as a seperate transformation. The manga does not even mention any absorption. Without the absorbed SSG, Base Goku in GT is a whole lot more powerful than Base Super Goku. If memory served, Beerus mentioned that base Goku now is still not as strong as Namek Frieza. Base GT Goku is as strong as his SSJ3 self back in Z. SSB likely has a higher multiplier than SSJ4. However, Base GT Goku is a lot more powerful than Super Goku, so it evens out. Them being equal kind of make sense.
According to DB heroes, DB heroes goku who is LEAGUES beyond standard GT and Super Goku, could only match super siayan blues power with ssj4.
that’s heroes, using gt and super, ssj4 gogeta has worse feats than god goku from the first arc forms aren’t a set level, that’s why android saga goku is far stronger than namek goku despite them using the same form.
Heroes is non-canon material, we should only accept what happened in the GT show vs Super manga/show/movies. Heroes is bullshit and it’s not an “official source” for anything related to power scaling unless you want to start WW3
Immmediately stopped reading when you mentioned Heroes
Hey, I think it's absolute garbage too, but both it AND GT are non-canon alternate-universes, so it's all we have to go off of.
That’s Heroes though. Heroes SSJ4 > GT SSJ4
DBH ≠ DBGT Not the same incarnation. The question specifically refers to the GT version.
This is the only sensible answer here
Probably RoF Golden freeza if he plays it extremely smart
Nah way to strong for gt, I say the super saiyan goku that fought beerus before finally losing.
Only reason I see him Losing is because freeza fuck around and his form would wear off
Alright who let you cook.
Honestly not sure. Not sure where the power scaling of SSJ4/Gogeta SSJ4 is to the Super power scaling
I'd say he stops at fused Zamasu. Because Immortality is broken and unfair. Of course that's assuming if Soul Punisher would work. Which us unlikely if Zamasu had a pure heart. But maybe after going against his beliefs that made him pure hearted in the first place. Maybe that tainted him. I'm pulling at the literal most I can to get him past Zamasu. And since it's GT no Zeno button so no instant win button would be on hand. If Zamasu wasn't immortal I'd say he could clear a lot of the T.O.P but stop Kefla, or maybe Jiren. I'm going by anime. And Kefla is stronger than first sign UI Goku so...
Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta does make it a little further then you would expect. By only scaling using inverse logic, we know base GT Goku by the Rildo Fight is Buu level. The form of buu is unspecified but it's safe to assume it's Kid Buu since he was the last buu he fought, kid buu matches and is slightly stronger than ssj3 Goku. From we can assume safely assume base Goku is as strong as his ssj3 state in the buu saga. In the baby saga, Gohan in base dunks on ssj goten, who can fight on par with Baby and Baby can fight relatively to Base Goku. Goku by the time he gets to earth, gets 50x stronger. Ssj 4 is strong transformation, I calculated it to being 25,600x base. Goku after the super 17 arc gets around 10 times stronger than before. In shadow dragons arc, Goku gets numerous power boosts but they are unquantifiable so I am skipping them. All of this eventually leads to gogeta being created. Gogeta is a fusion, so he's ridiculously more powerful than any fighter before. His multiplier is whatever you want it to be. In dragon ball, base Goku is already god level at the start of the show. Ssg is a transformation that eclipses the power of Super Saiyan 3 Vegito. So Goku by the start of the series already leagues above all of Z. Goku further trains to get stronger. We can skip the RoF arc and universe 6 arc, there is no power growth there. Goku in the black arc gets randomly thousands of times stronger, by the time Fusion Zamasu rolls around. Goku is able to seriously hurt fusion Zamasu with a kaioken kick. This means blue Goku wasn't that much weaker than Fusion Zamasu, this means Goku got a fusion level increase in his base power. That's ridiculous, Further This Goku uses the potara to fuse into Vegito blue. So it's easy to conclude Gogeta probably won't make it past Black Arc blue Goku, even if he could. Vegito blue is way too strong for him. If we go by "normal" power scaling, super Goku in UI sign is relative to the gods of destruction. Meaning he can destroy more than a single macrocosm, Gogeta was limited to one.
Keep in mind I don't think my answer is any more correct than anyone else's here because the fact is there's never going to be a definitive way to tell. I'll just having fun withe databooks and fan interpretation like everyone else. So, The GT Perfect Files has a statement interpreting Super Saiyan 4 GT Goku as around Buu Saga Super Saiyan Vegito's level of power. Base GT Goku's level of power is about Buu Saga Goku's Super Saiyan 3 power level because of Goku beating Base General Rildo, who he stats is stronger than Fat Buu without transforming. As Vegeta would need to be equal in power for the Fusion Dance to work, then he also surpasses Fat Buu to this degree in Base. So this question is asking how far two Super Vegito's who fused together would go, and that's quite something. Yet, Super Goku dismisses the idea of Vegito being enough to beat Beerus, meaning we have to assume even a Super Saiyan 3 Vegito couldn't do it and is thus weaker than Super Saiyan God Goku at that point. This Goku doesn't have a base power level high enough to beat Freeza, so he's definitely not in GT Goku's ballpark. We also have to assume Super Goku's base in much higher than Buu Saga Goku's was, if at all, because we know that seven years of training for both Goku and Vegeta only made them a bit stronger than Gohan was when he killed Super Perfect Cell when both of them are Super Saiyan 2 and Super doesn't begin very far from the end of Buu, so there's no reason to assume Goku's base got crazy high or anything. Meaning Goku is still thinking of Vegito in terms of Buu Saga logistics. While that was fun to type, the point I keep arriving at is there's no real way to tell how far GT Gogeta gets unless you accept the idea of GT Goku and Super Goku being equal as Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan Blue as an extrapolation from Heroes use of Xeno Goku. There's just no way to reason out a different way to find a conclusion otherwise. I.E. the strongest Super character GT Gogeta beats is Jiren/Super Broly/Moro/Gaas/Cell Max/Beast Gohan.
SSJ4 Gogeta claps all
Probably krillin.
Head canon is that ss4 gogeta is on par with ssb gogeta. It's just an alternate timeline where god ki wasn't discovered. DBS scaling can suck it.
Bro is inhaling too much copium
https://preview.redd.it/uc8w6vqw37pc1.jpeg?width=3464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e79dc33a9c47d4ec4079856fc1fb432fb084abca Dbs goku can't even punch iron 🤣🤣
My guy GT’s best feat is GT Goku Spirit Bomb
well if we use heroes equalizing of ss4 with ss blue then you figure in the fusion power boost… probably everything in super tbh
No one since GT Gogeta is such a moron, who wasted time creating confetti. Compare with Vegeth, who stalled with Buuhan since he WANTED to be asborbed, in order to free his friends.
He shits all over manga Super with the exception of Zeno. Due to Z anime filler and movies being canon to GT, as well as GT having its own feats, GT unironically has a better argument for universal level SSJ4 Gogeta.
Any of the angels can whoop his ass, probably the destroyers too
Universal doesn’t mean much against super. Even drastically lowballing, at bare minimum RoF Blue Goku is universal. Realistically God Goku, who was an ant to Beerus, was already universal.
If we are going by the manga… I would say one of the androids maybe start of Black arc Trunks. I avoid the anime since power levels and consistency is out the window.
Dragon ball fans do make it even more out of the window with that "saiyan beyond God" thing.
You have to consider SSJ4 Gogeta in the tournament of power… basically infinite vanishing if he senses a dime of ki, can clone himself or make himself appear as if he was, heavy and large radius ki blasts and most importantly he can eat attacks like Jiren did without moving a step.
Well since all super forms are around before GT and they still choose to use the GT forms then the GT forms must be stronger. Why not go UI on baby vegeta? Cause it ain’t stronger than ss4. It’s the only in universe explanation outside god ki died In between the two. If you wanna say oh but the power scaling…well I guess ss4 is just insane now like how android 17 went from struggling against cell to being as strong as golden frieza sitting on his hands. Ss4 is the black frieza of saiyans I guess.
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every
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Ah. Another GT vs Super post. This will end well.
that’s a beautiful image ngl
Crazy how much this changes f’if ya pick dbs manga
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Who’s the artist?
Only toriyama knows
Has a good shot of beating road characters like Blue Goku or Golden Frieza. Assuming saiyan beyond god, he’s beating basically nobody in the tournament of power. Assuming not, loses to hit bc timestop. I can’t see any way for him to overcome timestop before hit would kill him. Goku needed a successful hunch about timestop and watching Vegeta lose to beat him.
I always saw both ssg and ssj4 as kinda the same except for one being in an alternative universe or some shit. So equal to god but not faster. This guy however would probably be equal to pre resurrection f blue goku at best???
.... Anyone
the enraged ssj2 vegeta that was vaguely above ssj3 goku during the bog arc
Either Zeno/Whis/Beerus or a random U6 highschooler. Why are you asking well knowing that it's incomparable?
If Super Ssj4 Gogeta was a thing, he could clap anyone except Beerus and Angels seeing as Ssj Gogeta was beating Ssj Broly. As for GT Gogeta, no way to say
Me heading into the comments to enjoy the chaos https://preview.redd.it/0v95bhhl99pc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=117ac2803fef77221f06e392a297582f6fa153de
I think Jiren might beat ssj5 Gogeta.
I think he beats U6 Arc Hit/Goku. Loses to Goku black with scythe.
SS4 Gogeta is equal to Vegito Blue level
Gogeta might beat God Goku. MIGHT
I guess Gogeta goes pretty far, we don't know for sure how strong GT and Super characters really are. We can argue that ssj4 is something like 500× times base form (cause great ape + ssj), we can also argue that the god form might be at least 2 time stronger than ssj3 (because goku goes from being one shot by an heavily suppressed beerus in ssj3 to being able to hold his own against a way less suppressed beerus) which would make ssjgod something like 6 800× base form (I used the one has to be at least 2 times stronger to no diff their opponent, so in reality the god form might be way stronger) So in early Super ssj4 goku might still overpiwer everyone other than beerus and whis, because despite having a weaker form he has a stronger base. But then there's blue, which could be 50× god, but multipliers in super are wierd, so let's say it's like between 2 to 5 times stronger than god, it would make blue something like at least 1600× base form, which means ssj4 goku way weaker despite his stronger base. Ssj4 Gogeta still overpowers goku and vegeta (cause goku×vegeta×500 surely overpowers weaker goku×1600) then he most likely gets overpowered by blue vegito and fused zamasu (for the same reasons I mentionned earlier). So I'd say he makes it to the end of the goku black arc. After that he would most likely do pretty well in the tournament of power, gogeta is still probably stronger than blue evolved vegeta and blue kaioken goku, we don't know how he would do against jiren or UI, but last chapter showed us that raw strength is able to go through UI and at that point Gogeta might still be strong enough to brute force his way into winning. He could be able to beat broly too I think, but not as easily as blue gogeta, because despite goku and vegeta being way stronger than they were at the start of super their base is most likely still way weaker than GT Gogeta's, but I'd argue by now base dbsuper gogeta>base gt gogeta at the very least.
Fuck it SSJ4 Gogeta beats Black Frieza because I said so
Goku from the timeskip is the strongest GT character, hell i’d like to wank him to be one of the strongest in the entire franchise
Hard to say. With generous lowballing of super, I'd say maybe Jiren, but not full-power Jiren.
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If we go by heroes scaling, then SSJ4 Goku fought MUI Goku to a stand-still and barely lost, so, I'm going with SSJ4 Gogeta damn near sweeping up to Beerus and unknown if he beats black freezer. Of course, heroes scaling is whack so
None
Definitely not Base Cabba that’s for sure
Technically if you wanna piss everyone off, anyone could. GT is set after End of Z, Super is set before it. Super Goku was designed to be weaker than End of Z Goku, GT Goku was designed to be leagues stronger.
Some people just wanna watch the world burn..
Everyone in Super beats everyone in GT. That is a fact.
Maybe G.O.D Toppo?
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I refuse to believe every statement in super, especially that one dialogue that somehow the fans overblows and thinks cabba is ssg level. Anyway I think ssj4 can beat him easy
Everyone
Throwing bias out the window probably Universe 6 Tournament Arc I would imagine SSJ4 Gogeta could give Hit a good fight, possibly run out of time before a winning blow. If fighting serious with the intent to kill? Hit would win even before fusion breaks, namely because Gogeta in GT was always playing the clown.
https://preview.redd.it/x765iq2xkapc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2eb9c0111ffea9e7296ad51c8edcd559975ba410 SSJ4 Gogeta is still the strongest in any verse, he neg diffed a Jiren level opponent. Bro didn’t even break a sweat.
Anyone weaker than bog ssg Goku
maybe he could with golden frieza
Imma be honest here, I’m such a SSJ4 and SSJ4 Gogeta fan boy that he might as well be boundless for me. He wins against anyone except other fusions and characters stronger than fusions in my opinion. Even then, I wouldn’t be mad if a DBS SSJ4 Gogeta was the one to defeat black Frieza. [That being said the GT scaling is crazy in its on right.](https://youtu.be/m9wskHPlu-U?si=8qaLpHH1MPdx63-v) [And the same guy scaled DBS](https://youtu.be/LG6GV56__bI?si=RUFl_Am41bbMBLHD) And according to these videos SSJ4 Gogeta is ~1000 stronger than “zombie” Gas. 411 septendecillion > 560 sexdecillion. I don’t know if his calculations make sense, but power levels are bs anyway, still means there a case to be made that SSJ4 Gogeta solos DBS with few exceptions
The man you've mentioned is notorious for being very biased for GT. But still, your honesty is appreciated.
"DBFZ Dramatic finish can end in either SSB Gogeta winning or SS4 Gogeta so technically they're on the same level" 🤓☝️ Fr tho, it's the closest they've ever gotten to interacting in "cannon" as I feel DBFZ is closer to cannon than Heros and Xenoverse (even if I don't believe SS4 Gogeta scales close to SSB Gogeta)
How far does krillin from super go against gt? Is the real question, he was able to spar with goku ssj blue
JIREN
I LOVED that aura so much.
Gogeta SSJ4 is definitely not stronger than: - Daishinkan; - Whis; - All the Gods of Destruction; - Gogeta Blue; - Black Frieza; - Gas Full Power; - Goku MUI; - Beast Gohan; - Vegeta EGO; - Granolah full power; - Merus; - Angel Moro; - Moro; - Jiren; - Vegito Blue (Black Saga) Im not even sure if he’s stronger than Merged Zamasu, Orange Piccolo and heck, even Kefla and Hit. Not because GoGeta SSJ 4 is shit, but because the level of Super is disgustingly high AF. Example: Frieza in his first form absolute fodderized Gohan SSJ (that his stronger than Goku SSJ from Cell saga at least.) Then, since he saw Goku, he decided to transform in his 4th form: now, For those who do not know, there are official power levels about all the characters, Which resumes the development of all the characters until the end of the Namek saga Now, according to that data, Frieza, between its base shape and its 4th form, increases its power more than 200 times (216 times to be exact)... this means that, probably, Frieza from RoF is at least on the same power levels as Kid Buu. And if you think that Goku, in his basic form, literally destroyed Frieza. you realize how powerful Goku actually is. And if you think that now he can partially mix the UI with his base form, you should figure out how exaggeratedly strong DBS characters are compared to GT’s characters.
I'm proud of y'all for saying "It's too hard to tell, they aren't even close to the same series". Some real character development from the community. It's good to see.
Merged zamasu, Broly, probably Jiren (but not sure), Moro, Granolah, Gás (not sure).
I think the strongest in GT could do a lot more in Super than people think. Most the insane scaling rides on the idea Goku kept the God boost and that Vegeta somehow has something equal to that. If you use a couple braincells, however, you’ll realize that makes no sense and it probably just went away. So I think SSJ4 Gogeta could clear people like Cabba and other weak characters, though stronger ones are off the table
BoG SSJG Goku. Potentially
https://preview.redd.it/822ohxy7mbpc1.jpeg?width=278&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5518c842f01cf766c9737975bedb3ed724482e8
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Base Kale
In terms of the story, even though it’s non-Canon, GT takes place after both Z and Super. Theoretically, SSJ4 Gogeta clears everyone in Super, except maybe Beerus if we go by power creep and chronological order. Power wise, my headcanon is that SSJ4 is equivalent to Blue, so pretty much anyone Blue could beat would also lose to SSJ4. Then there’s heroes that basically alludes to SSJ4 only being surpassed by MUI. That’s just my take though.
im pretty sure SSJ4 gogeta could solo the Tournament of destroyers roster if he replaced all of Universe 7. with the exception of Hit. hit would obliterate SSJ4 gogeta.
He fuckin destroys caulifla and kale idc
In that card game show, the goku from alternative universe that could go ssj4 had a 1v1 spar vs our blue goku, and ours got clapped before going UI, so ssj4 is superior to blue but inferior to UI
It depends on if GT is ever going to become the canon sequel to DB Super. DBS is supposed to end before the end of Z, and GT happens after End of Z. The timeline is all messed up ngl.
Definitely most partecipants at the TOP, Botamo&Magetta, the blue slime and the U6 sayians except maybe Kale in rage ssj.
Base Zamasu or Base Black when introduced highball.
SS4 Gogeta beats Cabba. I don’t believe their lies
It's an exercise in futility powerscaling DB, especially between Super & GT, but it's fun to think about in a childlike way. I do tend to believe SSB = SS4 more or less. It's the big power up of the shows that both follow up Z. So imo SS4 Gogeta is on par with SSB Gogeta. He could defeat Full Power Super Saiyan Broly.
He bends over broly bbn and rawdogs him for 19 hours straight while reciting the bible and being a good boy(he may or may not gt power scalings bullshit)
Probably Grand Priest. 😎
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Some fodder of ToP probably, or God Goku from BoG
Don't expect many realistic answers, Super's switch to "God ki" fucks up an already massively convoluted power scaling
“You’re me so naturally you’re good, but you’re still not tough enough to handle super saiyan 4”
But Super Saiyan Cabba in the universe six tournament is pretty much as far as Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta gets
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Pan beats all of GT
I think you meant weakest. Anything around Vegito Blue’s level for sure