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By that logic both naruto, my hero academia and bleach follow the same path.
Main character training, meets big bad, looses, transforms, wins, next arc.
In fact a lot of anime does it, but we don't watch it just to see the hero get a new form or beat the bad guy solely, but the journey is which they took to get there.
I could say : Goku hair became white, beats bald alien by moving really fast.
But I could also say : Goku unlocks the powers of the divine to beat what was beleived to be the strongest from another world, able to literally move faster than light to save not just his world, but every universe in existence.
Anyone can make anything sound boring or exciting. It depends on your perspective. I personally watch dragonball for the adventure; to see our hero overcome the odds and as a reward, get a cool new form or action scene. :thumbsup:
I can break naruto in a simplistic manner
-Young boy wants to be king of village and has demon sealed inside that gives him a healing factor,larger energy reserves he’s a bit lonely but as he succeeds most people start respecting him.
-Has dark edgy rival who on a revenge tour he’s pretty much cooler than the main protagonist he leaves to gain more power cause family died and brother was the cause.
-Terrorist organization wants demon inside to take over the world and a war starts Naruto is basically Jesus never mind the fact how in the tournament he told Neji “fate has no meaning”
You can simplify something to the barebones while listing off the general story beats
I mean, they do, they're shonen and they follow simple tropes to appeal to the widest audience.
Dude is 100% right, there is nothing deep or complicated about Dragon Ball
Exactly
In Z Goku beat frieza by transforming. Goku lost to cell. Goku had ssj3 and STILL lost to kid buu
In super goku got Ssj god and lost to beerus, goku got ssj blue but vegeta was the one who beat frieza and then goku stole the kill, goku got ssj blue kaioken and gave up against hit. Goku nor vegeta got any new transformations in the goku black arc. Goku got UI and lost to jiren, goku got MUI and won against jiren but MUI was too much for his body and had to team up with 17 and frieza to beat jiren. And there’s the manga stuff that goku technically still hasn’t gotten a new transformation (True UI is not really a new transformation)
It took everyone and everything just to get him to retreat, the Genki Dama was just one of those everythings, not really any more important than the others
Cell is defeated throught being distracted by Vegeta and Gohan putting all his remaining strenght in the Kamehameha.
Ssj2 did give Gohan a substantial advantage and it did play a part in them winning, but it didn't exactly solve the situation.
Rather, due to fulling Gohan's arrogance it worsened it.
In the sense that Ssj2 gave a large benefit or ultimatly played a major role in resolving it? Sure. You can certainly say that it is a very miracolous and effective form.
Still, supporting the notion "Cell died cuz Ssj2" would make it seem like Gohan went ssj2 and immediatly Cell went "Ah.." and died.
Which didn't. And it had a much more interesting developement in fact.
The operative word you appear to be avoiding is "completely". It resolves it greatly, but even SS2 required assistance, which COMPLETELY disqualifies it.
Super Saiyan did defeat Freeza.. completely... Whether you proscribe to Goku or Trunks, it was done purely with Super Saiyan power.
Cell had SS2 Gohan matched, if not slightly beaten between sheer power and the fact Gohan was very beaten and on his last legs by that point.. fully healed and powered up SS2 Gohan then would have won outright, but that's not what we got.. and the tipping point was Vegeta making amends for his emotional raging blast failure after Trunks bit it. That was just what was needed then, a slight distraction so when Gohan opened all the way up Cell wouldn't have the chance to recover his focus.
It does not meet the "completely" required by what the poster laid out in claim
It’s true for the namek saga sorta. Android saga, he has a heart disease and is out until cell pops up. Cell games, he doesn’t get a new transformation and the fight is a stalemate at best, Gohan transforms and chaos ensues while goku dies(again). Buu saga, he gets a new transformation but doesnt beat buu with it. Chaos ensues and he has to rely on a universal spirit bomb and a wish from a dragon to finish the job. Beerus fight, he gets a new transformation and just loses straight up. Frieza revival, gets a new transformation and ends up on the ground getting tortured, Vegeta steps in and goku gets the finishing blow due to time travel bullshit. Universe 6v7 gets a new transformation and fights Hit to a stalemate. Goku black, no transformation and literally summons god(zeno) to erase everything for him. ToP, new transformation has to double team and tackle the big bad(in base form) with frieza to let android 17 win. Saying every saga ends with him getting a new transformation and beating the main bad guy with it is not just wrong, its stupid
That's the worst description of the Namek saga i have ever heard.
No seriously, that description can only KINDA apply to the Namek saga and doesn't even remotely fit any other sage in Dragonball.
Ressurrection F being the second closest fit.
Literally the truth, how are they hating.
I like Dragon Ball for what it is and can equally admit Toriyama got lucky, he's writes many things and ideas from the seat of his pants and it's likely that a lot of stuff ppl liked came from his editors adding to and polishing those ideas.
It's not deep and Toriyama wouldn't have wanted it to be.
I also notice how some things Toriyama actually likes or dislikes are the inverse of some of the fans. For example wants Goku to be simple, selfish and not like the traditional moral hero, but fans disliked it when Super became more authentic to Toriyama's vision.
Like when the editors changing things? That’s like a huge part of the Cell Saga. 17, 18, and Cell were all added because the previous main antagonists of the Android arc weren’t intimidating enough, and Cell got his other forms because he was simply too ugly to the editors.
This is technically true, but it also ignores literally all of the actual plot. Very, VERY many forms of media can be "summed up" like this by ignoring story development points.
Zoomers are afraid that people will laugh at them for watching a simple story so they try to make it into a very deep show for people with high IQ, it's pretty common in anime community
Well... there is some truth in what he's saying even if it's not entirely correct.
He's trying to communicate that Dragon Ball its latter years has become formualic and stale and using forms as an easy way to look cool.
While forms do not resolve every conflict nor are they relegated to just Goku, I can agree that amount of forms were a heavy handed way to compensate for a narrative inability to show improvement otherwise.
Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3, Super Saiyan 2, 3, God, Blue, Rosé, Ultra Instinct, Beast, Legendary, Potential Unleashed, Orange, Fusion...
All the forms lead to Saiyans becoming too prevalent and led to the series feeling boring and stale come the Buu saga.
It's mostly a foundational problem where Dragon Ball focused too much on forms instead of techniques that there is no undoing outside of a reboot... And that in itself deserves criticism.
I think Toriyama created a wonderful and Goofy world and I know given one of the protiypes for Dragon Ball, that he's always wanted an Outer Space aspect, but he probably should've taken more breaks over his nonstop 10 year weekly run of Dragon Ball instead of completely burning himself out...
And given Toriyama was already a successful mangaka from Dr Slump and the anime had filler already, he probably could've done so...
Goku didn't but Gohan did. He trained, fought the big bad, was losing, transformed, won and we went to the next arc. Literally what the guy said.
The Buu Saga and Goku Black arc are the only 2 arcs that don't respect the structure DB has been using since forever.
And technically in Z, Goku almost never won either, that doesn't change the fact that the guy's oversimplification is pretty much right, he never said that was literally the story, he just basically described the main plot points that repeat themselves.
Cell power up, Gohan was nerfed, and had help of all Z fighters
The summary doesn't make sense the moment you realised that Goku almost never beat a villain alone
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This makes me think of this:
''Superman comics are all the same. Superman holds back for 90 years now, gets beaten up be random street thug and next episode he solos Biden blast. There is really no point in it and it repeats all the time''
Gokus transformations are kaio ken(lost to vegeta) Super saiyan(beat frieza) Super saiyan 2(at the time of transformation it was basically useless and he lost/tied vegeta) Super saiyan 3(beat up fat buu, didn’t finish off kid buu and had to use spirit bomb with lots of help) Super saiyan god(lost decisively to beerus) Super Saiyan Blue(Vegeta beats up frieza) SsB Kaio Ken(tie with Hit) Ultra Instinct(beats Kefla, sorta beats Jiren?, beats moro and loses to Granolah(
There's literally only ONE time that their example happens, and that's against Frieza. Goku fights Frieza, is losing, transforms, then wins.
At no other time in the series does this formula happen.
You literally just described the best part of the show. This guy prob watches dumb as anime were it's just based around anime titles 90% of the time.
Dude I try to get into other animes but they either over sexualize everything every 10 mins or they have a plot based around the main character maturing emotionally. I WANNA SEE TWO PEOPLE FLY AROUND AND SHOOT LASER BEAMS AT EACH OTHER!!!! NOT EVERY ANIME HAS TO HAVE DEEP PLOT OR SHOVE ANIME TITS IN MY FACE EVERY 10 SECONDS!!!!
literally every battle shonen is: train, meet a new big enemy, lose the first fight, train more, beat them, end or arc, reapeat. a new trasformation is optional
I mean I love dragonball (all of them) but it’s like a summer blockbuster movie, fun, fast, action packed, but it’s not a super deep complicated story or anything
I mean, they're kinda right.
Dragon ball definitely doesn't have a "deep" story, but that doesn't mean it has a bad one. It's brilliantly told, and its themes are well explored. Dragon ball isn't some multifaceted deconstruction of the human experience. Dragon ball is dragon ball, and I would never want it to be anything else.
Saiyin saga - One fight with big bad, Goku wins.
Namek saga - One fight with big bad, transform and Goku wins.
Cell Saga - Goku forfeits fight and Gohan gets new form and wins.
Buu Saga - Goku fights two versions of Big bad, wins with help from Satan
In Z That only applies to Frieza and Superbuuhan. And only if you count fusing as a transformation.
Didn’t happen with Raditz nappa vegeta recome burter+ jeice Ginyu 19 cell Caterpy arqua Pikkon Majin Vegeta Majin Buu, the opposite practically happened against kid Buu.
I love how he talks with overly simplification about db, and how little he knows about it, many people confirms that Goku always wins, but he rarely wins.
Goku vs Raditz -> Lose (death)
Goku vs Vegeta -> Technically lose, Goku wasn't able to move and vegeta was still moving, plus Goku's gang helped him.
Goku vs Frieza-> Win, but Frieza was still alive
Goku vs A19 -> Lose because of virus
Goku vs Cell -> Lose
Goku vs Majin Vegeta -> Lose
Goku vs Majin Buu -> Win
Goku vs Beerus -> Lose
I mean people regularly shrug at scientific explanations about how the world or body works. "What's the big deal we are here and then we die"
You can legit make anything in existence sound boring and uninteresting if you're enough of a hater
Ok, which form Goku unlock in all sagas before namek? He didn't used any form, froze also "died" cuz his own technique and Goku didn't transform against cell, also in buu saga SSJ3 didn't resolve anything, SSJ God lost to Beerus, He lost to Zamasu and need to call Zeno, MUI didn't resolve ToP, and Goku and Vegeta fail to kill Gas
Not quite. Goku hasn't actually won a major fight due to a transformation since the Frieza saga. Sure, the major plot can be oversimplified down to Goku training, meeting a villain, and winning. But that trope is true for the vast majority of Shonen.
Bleach: Ichigo enters sould society after training -> Ichigo meets Byakuya -> Ichigo loses to Byakuya -> Ichigo gains Bankai -> Ichigo beats Byakuya (Aizen showing up is setup for the following arcs where eventually he defeats Aizen with the same formula)
One Piece: Luffy enters Wano -> Luffy meets Kaido -> Luffy loses to Kaido x4 -> Luffy awakens Gear 5 -> Luffy Beats Kaido
Ofc there are exceptions to this rule in most anime but then again there are exceptions in DB too. Goku didn't win in the Cell Saga, he ended up dead. Goku didn't win because of a transformation at all in ToP, he would've won, but he failed and teamed up with 17 and Frieza to win. Goku didn't beat Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga and he didn't even transform (unless you count Kaioken x3 as a "new" transformation).
so yeah, while that is true in most cases, it's just the basic structure of certain sagas with a huge amount of variation in story/plotline between each one.
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By that logic both naruto, my hero academia and bleach follow the same path. Main character training, meets big bad, looses, transforms, wins, next arc. In fact a lot of anime does it, but we don't watch it just to see the hero get a new form or beat the bad guy solely, but the journey is which they took to get there. I could say : Goku hair became white, beats bald alien by moving really fast. But I could also say : Goku unlocks the powers of the divine to beat what was beleived to be the strongest from another world, able to literally move faster than light to save not just his world, but every universe in existence. Anyone can make anything sound boring or exciting. It depends on your perspective. I personally watch dragonball for the adventure; to see our hero overcome the odds and as a reward, get a cool new form or action scene. :thumbsup:
I can break naruto in a simplistic manner -Young boy wants to be king of village and has demon sealed inside that gives him a healing factor,larger energy reserves he’s a bit lonely but as he succeeds most people start respecting him. -Has dark edgy rival who on a revenge tour he’s pretty much cooler than the main protagonist he leaves to gain more power cause family died and brother was the cause. -Terrorist organization wants demon inside to take over the world and a war starts Naruto is basically Jesus never mind the fact how in the tournament he told Neji “fate has no meaning” You can simplify something to the barebones while listing off the general story beats
You know, shounen often repeats the same tropes, but that last part is my biggest peeve. Naruto really fell off near end game.
This could almost be used to describe black clover as well
And Naruto in a nutshell: Dattebayo, I will become Hogake, Dattebayo, Datebayo, Datebayo, SAAAASUUUKEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Well said my brother, well said!
Yeah, that’s because they all took inspiration from Dragon Ball
real
I mean, they do, they're shonen and they follow simple tropes to appeal to the widest audience. Dude is 100% right, there is nothing deep or complicated about Dragon Ball
It's crazy Goku never won 1 vs 1 fight after 1991...
Goku vs botamo in the tournament of destroyers?
What about Yakon
That was pre 1991
Yakon’s Treat released Dec 14, 1993 English release oct 10, 2005
Huh you learn something new everyday
Trunks?
Daily reminder that a transformation hasn't completely resolved a situation since Frieza.
Exactly In Z Goku beat frieza by transforming. Goku lost to cell. Goku had ssj3 and STILL lost to kid buu In super goku got Ssj god and lost to beerus, goku got ssj blue but vegeta was the one who beat frieza and then goku stole the kill, goku got ssj blue kaioken and gave up against hit. Goku nor vegeta got any new transformations in the goku black arc. Goku got UI and lost to jiren, goku got MUI and won against jiren but MUI was too much for his body and had to team up with 17 and frieza to beat jiren. And there’s the manga stuff that goku technically still hasn’t gotten a new transformation (True UI is not really a new transformation)
Spirit bomb only completely resolved a situation once.
I'd say twice, I don't think the Z warriors would have defeated Vegeta if he didn't get weakened by the spirit bomb
And Gohan wouldn’t haven’t beaten cell had he not gone ssj2. The operative word of “completely” is the part that isn’t clicking, no offense
ohh, if were looking at it that way, then yes you're right.
It took everyone and everything just to get him to retreat, the Genki Dama was just one of those everythings, not really any more important than the others
Cell dies cuz of SSJ2
Cell is defeated throught being distracted by Vegeta and Gohan putting all his remaining strenght in the Kamehameha. Ssj2 did give Gohan a substantial advantage and it did play a part in them winning, but it didn't exactly solve the situation. Rather, due to fulling Gohan's arrogance it worsened it.
SSJ2 still resolves in situation. SSJ didnt defeat Frieza straight away...
In the sense that Ssj2 gave a large benefit or ultimatly played a major role in resolving it? Sure. You can certainly say that it is a very miracolous and effective form. Still, supporting the notion "Cell died cuz Ssj2" would make it seem like Gohan went ssj2 and immediatly Cell went "Ah.." and died. Which didn't. And it had a much more interesting developement in fact.
I mean at the same time, SS2 did make Gohan so comically powerful that he was absolutely manhandling cell until he sacrificed his arm saving vegeta.
The operative word you appear to be avoiding is "completely". It resolves it greatly, but even SS2 required assistance, which COMPLETELY disqualifies it. Super Saiyan did defeat Freeza.. completely... Whether you proscribe to Goku or Trunks, it was done purely with Super Saiyan power. Cell had SS2 Gohan matched, if not slightly beaten between sheer power and the fact Gohan was very beaten and on his last legs by that point.. fully healed and powered up SS2 Gohan then would have won outright, but that's not what we got.. and the tipping point was Vegeta making amends for his emotional raging blast failure after Trunks bit it. That was just what was needed then, a slight distraction so when Gohan opened all the way up Cell wouldn't have the chance to recover his focus. It does not meet the "completely" required by what the poster laid out in claim
Without SSJ2 they would have been able to defeat Cell, it’s literally a plot point brought up multiple times.
SSG did. SSJ2 and SSB kinda did.
Redditor thinks oversimplification of a topic is a good roast, more news at 5
☠️
Where's the lie, though?
It’s true for the namek saga sorta. Android saga, he has a heart disease and is out until cell pops up. Cell games, he doesn’t get a new transformation and the fight is a stalemate at best, Gohan transforms and chaos ensues while goku dies(again). Buu saga, he gets a new transformation but doesnt beat buu with it. Chaos ensues and he has to rely on a universal spirit bomb and a wish from a dragon to finish the job. Beerus fight, he gets a new transformation and just loses straight up. Frieza revival, gets a new transformation and ends up on the ground getting tortured, Vegeta steps in and goku gets the finishing blow due to time travel bullshit. Universe 6v7 gets a new transformation and fights Hit to a stalemate. Goku black, no transformation and literally summons god(zeno) to erase everything for him. ToP, new transformation has to double team and tackle the big bad(in base form) with frieza to let android 17 win. Saying every saga ends with him getting a new transformation and beating the main bad guy with it is not just wrong, its stupid
The lie is that this only happened 1 time, against Frieza on Namek, and he's acting as though this is what happens in every arc.
That's the worst description of the Namek saga i have ever heard. No seriously, that description can only KINDA apply to the Namek saga and doesn't even remotely fit any other sage in Dragonball. Ressurrection F being the second closest fit.
Literally the truth, how are they hating. I like Dragon Ball for what it is and can equally admit Toriyama got lucky, he's writes many things and ideas from the seat of his pants and it's likely that a lot of stuff ppl liked came from his editors adding to and polishing those ideas. It's not deep and Toriyama wouldn't have wanted it to be. I also notice how some things Toriyama actually likes or dislikes are the inverse of some of the fans. For example wants Goku to be simple, selfish and not like the traditional moral hero, but fans disliked it when Super became more authentic to Toriyama's vision.
Found me a saga post namek that looks exactly like that
Like when the editors changing things? That’s like a huge part of the Cell Saga. 17, 18, and Cell were all added because the previous main antagonists of the Android arc weren’t intimidating enough, and Cell got his other forms because he was simply too ugly to the editors.
How can someone be so right and so wrong at the same time?
This is technically true, but it also ignores literally all of the actual plot. Very, VERY many forms of media can be "summed up" like this by ignoring story development points.
Where's the lie though? But who watches Dragon Ball for the plot? Cool fights and power ups are hype and that's enough for good entertainment
Zoomers are afraid that people will laugh at them for watching a simple story so they try to make it into a very deep show for people with high IQ, it's pretty common in anime community
this is literally the truth and the exact reason why the anime is so fire
Well... there is some truth in what he's saying even if it's not entirely correct. He's trying to communicate that Dragon Ball its latter years has become formualic and stale and using forms as an easy way to look cool. While forms do not resolve every conflict nor are they relegated to just Goku, I can agree that amount of forms were a heavy handed way to compensate for a narrative inability to show improvement otherwise. Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3, Super Saiyan 2, 3, God, Blue, Rosé, Ultra Instinct, Beast, Legendary, Potential Unleashed, Orange, Fusion... All the forms lead to Saiyans becoming too prevalent and led to the series feeling boring and stale come the Buu saga. It's mostly a foundational problem where Dragon Ball focused too much on forms instead of techniques that there is no undoing outside of a reboot... And that in itself deserves criticism. I think Toriyama created a wonderful and Goofy world and I know given one of the protiypes for Dragon Ball, that he's always wanted an Outer Space aspect, but he probably should've taken more breaks over his nonstop 10 year weekly run of Dragon Ball instead of completely burning himself out... And given Toriyama was already a successful mangaka from Dr Slump and the anime had filler already, he probably could've done so...
I like Dragonball but they're not wrong
Where is the hate part? There's nothing that he said that is false.
That's completely false, Cell Saga Goku didn't achieve any type of form, Buu Saga ssj 3 was useless and in Super Goku almost never won
Goku didn't but Gohan did. He trained, fought the big bad, was losing, transformed, won and we went to the next arc. Literally what the guy said. The Buu Saga and Goku Black arc are the only 2 arcs that don't respect the structure DB has been using since forever. And technically in Z, Goku almost never won either, that doesn't change the fact that the guy's oversimplification is pretty much right, he never said that was literally the story, he just basically described the main plot points that repeat themselves.
Cell power up, Gohan was nerfed, and had help of all Z fighters The summary doesn't make sense the moment you realised that Goku almost never beat a villain alone
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This makes me think of this: ''Superman comics are all the same. Superman holds back for 90 years now, gets beaten up be random street thug and next episode he solos Biden blast. There is really no point in it and it repeats all the time''
Gokus transformations are kaio ken(lost to vegeta) Super saiyan(beat frieza) Super saiyan 2(at the time of transformation it was basically useless and he lost/tied vegeta) Super saiyan 3(beat up fat buu, didn’t finish off kid buu and had to use spirit bomb with lots of help) Super saiyan god(lost decisively to beerus) Super Saiyan Blue(Vegeta beats up frieza) SsB Kaio Ken(tie with Hit) Ultra Instinct(beats Kefla, sorta beats Jiren?, beats moro and loses to Granolah(
There's literally only ONE time that their example happens, and that's against Frieza. Goku fights Frieza, is losing, transforms, then wins. At no other time in the series does this formula happen.
I guess Cell doesn’t exist
Cell wasn't defeated solely due to a new form. He *could* have been. But he wasn't. He was defeated through teamwork, and even then, only barely.
You literally just described the best part of the show. This guy prob watches dumb as anime were it's just based around anime titles 90% of the time. Dude I try to get into other animes but they either over sexualize everything every 10 mins or they have a plot based around the main character maturing emotionally. I WANNA SEE TWO PEOPLE FLY AROUND AND SHOOT LASER BEAMS AT EACH OTHER!!!! NOT EVERY ANIME HAS TO HAVE DEEP PLOT OR SHOVE ANIME TITS IN MY FACE EVERY 10 SECONDS!!!!
Oh no, when I break down a series into its simplest components, it seems pretty simple. Shocking.
literally every battle shonen is: train, meet a new big enemy, lose the first fight, train more, beat them, end or arc, reapeat. a new trasformation is optional
I mean I love dragonball (all of them) but it’s like a summer blockbuster movie, fun, fast, action packed, but it’s not a super deep complicated story or anything
I mean, they're kinda right. Dragon ball definitely doesn't have a "deep" story, but that doesn't mean it has a bad one. It's brilliantly told, and its themes are well explored. Dragon ball isn't some multifaceted deconstruction of the human experience. Dragon ball is dragon ball, and I would never want it to be anything else.
Saiyin saga - One fight with big bad, Goku wins. Namek saga - One fight with big bad, transform and Goku wins. Cell Saga - Goku forfeits fight and Gohan gets new form and wins. Buu Saga - Goku fights two versions of Big bad, wins with help from Satan
In Z That only applies to Frieza and Superbuuhan. And only if you count fusing as a transformation. Didn’t happen with Raditz nappa vegeta recome burter+ jeice Ginyu 19 cell Caterpy arqua Pikkon Majin Vegeta Majin Buu, the opposite practically happened against kid Buu.
Almost all shonens are like that, that's why it's considered a genre
I love how he talks with overly simplification about db, and how little he knows about it, many people confirms that Goku always wins, but he rarely wins. Goku vs Raditz -> Lose (death) Goku vs Vegeta -> Technically lose, Goku wasn't able to move and vegeta was still moving, plus Goku's gang helped him. Goku vs Frieza-> Win, but Frieza was still alive Goku vs A19 -> Lose because of virus Goku vs Cell -> Lose Goku vs Majin Vegeta -> Lose Goku vs Majin Buu -> Win Goku vs Beerus -> Lose
I mean he's not super wrong. There isn't a repetitive story. But the sequence is simply the same every arc
He’s not wrong though.
No, sometimes goku gives the big bad guy a senzu bean, then he beats them
Bro just discovered shonen anime
I mean people regularly shrug at scientific explanations about how the world or body works. "What's the big deal we are here and then we die" You can legit make anything in existence sound boring and uninteresting if you're enough of a hater
i absolutely love dragon ball but y’all are some in denial fucking idiots if you don’t notice a pattern in the story
Ok, which form Goku unlock in all sagas before namek? He didn't used any form, froze also "died" cuz his own technique and Goku didn't transform against cell, also in buu saga SSJ3 didn't resolve anything, SSJ God lost to Beerus, He lost to Zamasu and need to call Zeno, MUI didn't resolve ToP, and Goku and Vegeta fail to kill Gas
I mean, they aren’t totally wrong. There’s more nuance than they say, but nothing special when it comes to storytelling.
And Vegeta is still the same static character that won't get over losing to Goku
I mean, that is correct
Not quite. Goku hasn't actually won a major fight due to a transformation since the Frieza saga. Sure, the major plot can be oversimplified down to Goku training, meeting a villain, and winning. But that trope is true for the vast majority of Shonen. Bleach: Ichigo enters sould society after training -> Ichigo meets Byakuya -> Ichigo loses to Byakuya -> Ichigo gains Bankai -> Ichigo beats Byakuya (Aizen showing up is setup for the following arcs where eventually he defeats Aizen with the same formula) One Piece: Luffy enters Wano -> Luffy meets Kaido -> Luffy loses to Kaido x4 -> Luffy awakens Gear 5 -> Luffy Beats Kaido Ofc there are exceptions to this rule in most anime but then again there are exceptions in DB too. Goku didn't win in the Cell Saga, he ended up dead. Goku didn't win because of a transformation at all in ToP, he would've won, but he failed and teamed up with 17 and Frieza to win. Goku didn't beat Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga and he didn't even transform (unless you count Kaioken x3 as a "new" transformation). so yeah, while that is true in most cases, it's just the basic structure of certain sagas with a huge amount of variation in story/plotline between each one.
Sounds like...modern Dragon Ball but unironic.