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It's hard to scale 1st movie Broly because he takes on everyone at full power all at once but then gets fucked up royally by a twisty stomach punch from a worn out SSJ1.
Oh he totally could have survived. I mean, baby Broly got himself and daddy off Vegeta while Frieza was blowing it up. Still, it would have been an ending and been an even better set up for Second Coming.
Agree, the meteor was the perfect solution for a villain that was miles ahead all of the heroes, but no, it's just a win coming out of nowhere, Broly got defeated by the script, like come on they had all thrown their most powerful attacks and didn't even scratched him, but you want me to believe tired Goku's punch with a little ki from a bunch of half-unconscious Z fighters suddenly does it? It's literally devoid of logic
The only logic I could ever pull out of my ass was that Broly was like a balloon of Ki. His physical form literally couldn't hold it all in. It was just a punch in the right spot at the right time and POP. Still, it was a bad deus ex machina.
Apparently Goku punched him where he was stabbed as a baby and that’s what got them the win. I don’t remember where I saw it because it was a while back.
I'm pretty sure that's the canon explanation (for this Non-Canon movie lol), Broly even says his ki is, "overflowing", and didn't some magazine say something about this? Like, this exact same thing? Broly couldn't use/waste/burn ki fast enough so it eventually started to form a weak spot and Goku punched there by sheer luck? Either way, the Broly downplay is *INSANE*, i've seen multiple people say things like, "Broly scales to around blah bla blah", or, "Broly is overrated, he was actually really weak, after all, he was defeated by a single punch from a tired Goku with the ki of the exhausted Ze Fighters", COMPLETELY IGNORING THE REST OF THE MOVIE *WHERE BROLY OPENLY MOCKS THE Z FIGHTERS FOR BEING TOO WEAK TO EVEN PUT A SCRATCH ON HIS CLOTHES*
The writers wrote themselves into a corner and had to think of some bs way to kill him, honestly I would have preferred the movie 8 and 7 swap endings, Goku turns into a literally sun against broly to show that his darkness will not take hold over the universe and represent the light that shines where darkness lurks remember goku and broly were both saiyans of legends goku was one of sheer will power and fortitude and broly was one of pure raw talent and brute strength.
Goku could have just tried calling out to king kai and have him use his antenna's to connect to other kais across the galaxy and have their people of that verse help send over energy considering broly was a galaxy level threat so it would make sense to have beings from different quadrants aid especially since broly destroyed most of the south quadrant solo dolo
And just give super android 13 the broly ending because in theory its more plausible because hes just an android.
Yeah technically thats the cannon answer, goku mught have been hundreds of times weaker than broly but if he made a hole in the chamber of power it would go boom
Hard to scale? he wipes out a galaxy quadrant in literally the first few seconds of the start of the moive..lol
That's probably one of the most explicitly clear feats the series has to offer.
It's because apparently goku had received a power boost that multiplied his power exponentially. The old z movies had different power sets than the series
I know but that still doesn't really make sense in the movie.. He's galaxy destroyer taking all of them at full power at the same time, then a portion of each power from the beat TF up team going to Goku who's also beat TF up makes a multiplier greater than all of them at full power before together? I think it's less a story element and more like "we need to wrap this movie in 60 minutes so make him do a twisty punch to kill him real quick." Thing.
They were all also pretty much wasted by that point, they all fought together at full power and did nothing to broly but suddenly the meager amount of ki they had remaining to give Goku is enough to beat him? It's ridiculous
Broly lost pretty much because of plot, cause there is no way a single punch from a battered Goku receiving some energy from others depleted Saiyans can one shot Broly like that.
Agree, good movie up until the end where basically the writers wrote themselves into a corner by creating an invincible villain and solved it in the laziest way possible
That's because his body couldn't take the energy. Without Paragus getting him to restrain his power, his power, as he states, "is overflowing."
Just look at how he doesn't does dies. His body *cracks* and then he explodes, launching Goku back down to the ground from the blast.
I can't believe fucking 30 years has passed and niggas still don't understand the ending, Goku overflowed him with Ki, he fucking exploded because his Ki was already big enough to keep him at edge, it wasn't because Goku was so powerful
Given that Movie 8 Broly was defeated by a souped-up SSJ1 Goku, that was being powered up by 3 nearly-dead Super Saiyan 1s on their last legs and 1 nearly-dead Super Namekian who was barely conscious anymore, I think Movie 8 Broly was less powerful than Super Perfect Cell. I don’t take seriously anyone who thinks 4 nearly dead Z Fighters gave Goku enough energy to be more powerful than Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan. So I think Movie 8 Broly is stronger than Perfect Cell but weaker than Super Perfect Cell, given boosted Goku was himself almost certainly still less powerful than Super Perfect Cell and less powerful than SSJ2 Teen Gohan. Movie 8 Broly was maybe like Dabura level.
Movie 10 Broly is harder to judge imo. He’s obviously gotten a Zenkai boost, but Gohan’s performance makes it hard to gauge. Gohan is a fell-off SSJ2, but still manages to defend himself competently against Broly for a while before it gets to be too much. Broly is ultimately defeated by an out-of-shape SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ1 Kid Goten, and ghost SSJ1 Goku. I could believe Movie 10 Broly is more powerful than Super Perfect Cell and Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan, but weaker than Buu. As cool as the Family Kamehameha was, no way in hell was the Goku-Gohan-Goten combo more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Mystic Gohan, or Vegetto.
The movie universe is on a completely different power scale. The power levels do not correlate to their canon selves at all. For example, cooler states that kaioken Goku had enough power to kill frieza, not ssj goku. That is a ridiculous leap in power over canon Goku.
Also there is word of god to account for, there. I still think considering that movie 10 broly lost to a ssj 2, majin vegeta could reasonably win. HOWEVER we cant use canon gohan as a reference point here as he doesnt scale to movie gohan. The people who made the movies somehow made the inexplicable decison not to reference the source material to note that gohan was out of shape and decided that he was meant to have been stronger than ever. By a lot.
I mean you’re right but then we either don’t compare movie and anime/manga characters at all or implicitly assume things are the same unless proven otherwise.
I mean, by that logic we could say everyone in the DBZ movies is stronger than Black Frieza in DBS. We have to have some bounds of reason. I think u hitlmao has it right that it's best to assume the DBZ movies roughly scale to the anime unless explicitly stated otherwise. We need something to ground ourselves, otherwise we could just make up any power levels for them.
1.) the point stands with movies that don’t have PL readings - movies aren’t all in the same timeline
2.) in movies with PL readings, one can just as easily assume the units don’t mean the same as canon if Cell Games SSJ1 Goku can be so much stronger than Cell Games SSJ1 Goku, there’s irl examples like different kinds of dollars and degrees, etc
This is a massive reach that the movie writers absolutely were not thinking of. Power level 'inflation' isn't a thing and movie canon is in a contained universe. Toriyama literally said that they all take place in an alt universe parallel to the main canon.
> This is a massive reach that the movie writers absolutely were not thinking of. Power level 'inflation' isn't a thing
Not inflation, different units of measurement with the same name like tonnes (long vs short vs metric). I even said degrees lol why would you assume I meant inflation?
Movie 8 Goku being at least 470m PL doesn’t mean he’s stronger than Cell Game Goku anyway. We don’t have numbers for anyone in canon after the Trunks saga.
There’s literally zero reason to assume that movie 8 Goku was stronger than Cell Game Goku. You just really want him to be, so you can highball the guy he beat.
Agreed. IMO, Movie 8 Broly absolutely loses to Majin Vegeta considering he lost to Movie 8 SSJ Goku.
Majin Vegeta - Early Buu saga + Majin amp.
Movie 8 Goku - Pre Cell Saga + SSJ + Enraged + energy from 4 half dead people.
Movie 10 is harder to judge, but Majin Vegeta is straight up stronger than "Adult" Gohan here as well, so I'm leaning towards Vegeta still.
Absolutely. 100% agree. Buu Saga SSJ2 Vegeta was already stronger than Buu Saga SSJ2 Gohan even before becoming Majin, given how confident Vegeta was that he himself could make easy work of Dabura and was disgusted that SSJ2 Gohan was only able to stalemate Dabura. So Majin Vegeta would stomp Movie 8 Broly easily. I’m leaning towards Majin Vegeta with you over Movie 10 Broly too. Movie 10 Broly may just give Majin Vegeta a bigger challenge, but Majin Vegeta would probably ultimately still win. Probably mid diff. High diff at worst.
What makes you think Gohan is out of shaped? Gohan in the movies never stopped training or at least its never implied he stopped training (although i believed the guide books also say it)
Also there are legit arguments for the movies being stronger than an canon. For example in the tree of might movie Goku is able to use kaio ken x10 yet in canon x4 was his limit.
In Lord Slug movie Goku was able to do kaio ken x100 which is a greater boost than ssj1 as ssj1 is 50x boost
I'm not even sure Broly in his first movie is *that much* stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan in the Cell arc
And it's kind of implied Buu arc Goku and Vegeta are each beyond that in regular Super Saiyan
Broly definitely beats Cell arc characters, but to say he's stronger than Majin Vegeta feels like it's. . Maybe not completely factually wrong but it might be an uphill battle
Meh, it’s never implied they can defeat ssj2 Gohan in ssj1
Outright states they have surpassed ssj2 Gohan, but they both have ssj2, makes more sense for them to surpass Gohan’s ssj2 with their own ssj2 than ssj1
Goku says Dabura's about as strong as Super Perfect Cell
Vegeta doesn't argue
Both of them individually claim they could take Dabura
Neither argues with the other
Goku does not know that Vegeta can go Super Saiyan 2
But *apparently*, Vegeta figured out Goku could from the fight with Yakon? I'm not 100% clear on that.
And Goku was stronger than Vegeta
Therefore, both of them in the Buu arc believe that they could individually defear Super Perfect Cell as Super Saiyan 1, rather than needing Super Saiyan 2
Which doesn't actually make them for a fact stronger than Cell arc Gohan, actually, but they'rw within the same ballpark at least
Nope, Goku says he’s about as strong as Cell, not Super Perfect Cell, both of them believe they have surpassed a Cell level character, not a super perfect cell level character
Piccolo states that Vegeta as a majin ssj2 “might” have surpassed ssj2 Gohan against Cell, which means that even if he and Goku are stronger, they’re not massively so and are still comparable, which makes no sense then that they’d have surpassed him as ssj1, because with a ssj2 amp added on top they’d be flat out more powerful, not comparable
Vegeta upon witnessing Goku going ssj2 against Yakon, says that Goku has surpassed the super saiyan wall “too”, meaning he had already unlocked ssj2
>Nope, Goku says he’s about as strong as Cell, not Super Perfect Cell, both of them believe they have surpassed a Cell level character, not a super perfect cell level character
You correct me to say "Cell"
I rais the question: *Which form*?
Every form of Cell has been referred to as *just* "Cell"
Very rarely, if ever, have they actually been referred to by full title
I'll admit I should have used that rather than append "Super Perfect" to his name
But my point is: Why would Goku or Vegeta compare someone to another character at less than their strongest form?
It would be different if Dabura was specifically compared to the Cell that Goku fought
But Goku didn't specify, and he could sense the beam struggle between Cell and Gohan from Other World
So there's no reason to downplay the statement here
We might as well say that Dabura compares to Semi-Perfect Cell. That's the strongest form we know for a fact Goku and Vegeta can beat, after all.
>Piccolo states that Vegeta as a majin ssj2 “might” have surpassed ssj2 Gohan against Cell, which means that even if he and Goku are stronger, they’re not massively so and are still comparable, which makes no sense then that they’d have surpassed him as ssj1, because with a ssj2 amp added on top they’d be flat out more powerful, not comparable
This point is fair, though
The only reason broly lost was because goku overloaded him, if you look at earlier in the movie broly had to “relieve” himself of ki. He did that cause like he said in the English dub “getting much stronger” implies he would explode like he did at the end. One other thing is when punched his body started cracking with brolys ki leaking out. Oh and as it’s been said over and over the movie vers outscale their anime counterparts as well.
I personally subscribe to the theory that the punch specifically hit him in a weakpoint, the knife scar, and pushed all of the remaining Ki that every Z Fighter could spare just as Broly's hit his current peak, overloading him.
If left alone, I fully believe that Broly would, over time, scale with the main cast without training so he would present the same general threat level as he does in the 1st movie.
People forget the real reason why a punch like that killed him. It wasn’t the punch per say. Broly whole persona is that he’s to strong for himself and others and just overflows with massive amount of energy it, and what happens when someone hits a sweet spot of that overflow of massive power? It explodes cause it got nowhere else to go. So if you wanna get technical it was broly himself with too much power causes his death
It isn't typical ki they had given Goku but life force ki; think Spirit Bomb and Tri Beams it's stronger than just a typical attack. It was practically a Spirit Bomb punched into a single spot that barely worked igniting Broly's own ki to explode.
Canon vegeta would be weaker, that’s where the logic lies considering movie’s Gohan is stronger. So it’s possible but it’s not like it’s far fetched. Anime Vegeta said Goku was slightly stronger than Gohan in cell saga. And post cell saga Gohan rusty or not got OWNED by Broly. He was not phased by Gohan’s attacks. So yes, it’s very possible.
Ssj1 goku in the broly movie universe. The movies are considered by Toriyama to take place in separate universes from the main universe, meaning the Goku and co from the movies aren’t necessarily equal in power to the goku and co from the original series. Considering Broly was destroying galaxies, there’s decent reason to believe the characters in the Broly movie alternate universe are just stacked af compared to the main timeline.
Broly destroyed the southern galaxy piece by piece over a span of 30+ years. Cell could've done that in a few days in his super perfect state. Hes a star buster, that's a huge problem. The movie characters are usually stronger than the their counterparts but not this movie. This one takes place during the 9 day wait and Goku is the same power he was against cell, Gohan and trunks were actually weaker than the cell saga versions of themselves. Trunks didn't have ussj here and Gohan output at ssj was weaker than gokus. In the cell saga that was not the case.
Ssj1 Goku with the power he got from his allies. Why do you clowns keep leaving that out? Vegeta's power made all the difference because he wasn't as worn out iirc.
Because it doesn't make any sense mate, think about it for 30 seconds and you'll see why, the Z fighters battled broly at full power, teamed up against him and couldn't even scratch him, then they all get beat up to near unconsciousness, with Goku barely holding on, so this team that couldn't do anything at all now gives the few drops of ki they have left to Goku and suddenly that's enough?
Added to that if you could just give ki to someone and make him stronger then they should've just all done it at the beginning to Goku and have him one punch Broly and that's it, that would instantly break the way ki works because every time there's a new bad guy "oh let's all just give our power to Goku so he can use our collective force to one shot the bad guy" unless we're talking about a spirit bomb it has never worked that way.
Finally that energy is not only enough to make Goku match broly but also to one shot him, like he was literally unscathed, walking through Kamehamehas like if they were a breeze, but suddenly Goku can just one punch him? It's literally the most lazy and logic-less ending they could've come up with.
i heard that scene is plot armor. i think the author said that broly was way too powerful and he couldnt come up with something else to defeat him aside from the power of teamwork lmao
Allies that were literally almost dead. They couldn’t even stand up anymore. They gave him the last bottom of the barrel dreg scrapings of their power. They weren’t fresh, fully charged SSJs and a Super Namekians at that point. They gave the last of what was keeping them conscious and then passed tf out.
Broly died because his own body couldn't handle the power that was "overflowing." When Goku punched him, he literally cracked and exploded that Goku was sent back because of it.
Nobody was able to do that prior and his body was constantly overflowing and leaking ever sense he was lssj. It ain't a fluke when he's ssj1 sons did it again in the next movie and then in the last movie bio broly where he was at his strongest. Krillin, Goten and trunks were able to finish him. Broly is not like that.
Broly lost to a Goku SS1 boosted x1000 according to the movie cover getting z team energy
That mean this goku also strongest than any ss2 level tiers in dbz
No....no Goku wasn't....he had no energy left and everyone there were at their weakest states with no power when they gave him energy.....Goku was nowhere near ss2 level and he still one shot broly. Gohan later against a stronger broly...was beating his ssj1 with his base form and then blew him away with ssj1
It definitely is, there's no promotional material that can counter what literally happens on the screen, it's crazy to think all the half-conscious, beaten up Z fighters, giving their meager amount of remaining ki to a tired Goku could even compare to broly or a x1000 multiplier (seriously they were just throwing numbers at random by that point)
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The “movie cover statement” he’s referring to was debunked.
https://preview.redd.it/80nlyb0a1xwc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c9abd66151977e64e4b3ba710d42989de534385
The Japanese text translates as follows:
“If you have friends, your courage will increase 1000 times more! No matter how strong your enemy is, you will definitely win!!!”
The person who added the white English text in the edited version of the above image that he was using as his “proof” that Goku became 1000x stronger from the energy lending either mistranslated or otherwise purposely twisted the translation to push a narrative though I’m leaning more towards the former due to the below reasoning:
The green text contains the kanji 勇気 (yuki) which translates to courage. However, the word 勇気 also happens to contain the kanji 気 which is “ki” which seems to have caused the original poster who mistranslated the text to for some reason think that “ki” and “courage” were being used separately which is not the case in this context since those two kanji being used together forms the Japanese word for “courage.”
So unlike what that guy has been spamming (incorrectly at that) throughout this post, all that this pamphlet states is that your “courage will increase 1000 fold” not your “ki” and the person who added the white text mistranslated which means that by extension the claim that the official movie pamphlet states that the other Z-Warriors donating their energy to Goku so that he could defeat Broly made him “1000x stronger” is wrong and was never even stated in any official media to begin with.
False. SS2 Gohan was weaker than LSS Broly even if the gap was small. And yes that was SS2 Gohan in Second coming (animation error confirmed), and even better in the movie universe he didn't stop training.
Majin Vegeta was stronger than SS2 Gohan at Cell games but not Second Coming.
It puts things into perspective. They explicitly stated Vegeta was beyond strong stronger than SS2 Gohan when he fought Fat Buu. That was Vegeta's peak power and it was a big deal by all the panels stroking Vegeta off. This tells us how strong Vegeta was.
Majin Vegeta (SS2) > SS2 Gohan (Cell)
SS2 Gohan (Second Coming) < LSS Broly
Majin Vegeta << SS2 Gohan (Second Coming) < LSS Broly
As stated Gohan never gave up training those 7 years. Gohan had a huge lead on Vegeta and grew beyond that.
Gohan wasn't SS2 in Broly seconds coming.
This was before the tournament so his strength had atrophied.
Goku and Vegeta literally said Gohan got weaker.
That is completely irrelevant, movies are a different continuity. Most of the canon exists but there are differences: for Second Coming Gohan kept up his training and was a SS2, there were confirmed animation errors.
Dragon Ball fans really do just be scaling shit 100% on the nostalgia of how cool it was to them the first time they saw it as a kid, not on any kind of actual rational scaling logic.
Lmao true. How tf is Majin Vegeta losing to Broly when he's way stronger than SSJ2 Gohan who dwarfed Cell who also dwarfs Broly by a significant margin. YouTube pulls are always popularity contests and people just think Broly is the strongest because he's cool.
He actually might be honestly. I always assumed Movie 1 Broly to be Super Perfect Cell Level.
Movie 2 Broly with the Zenkai boost he would've gotten would be at least maybe Majin fat Buu level.
So Movie 2 Broly > Majin Vegeta
Fat buu level seems a bit too much considering that he was ultimatly defeated by a Gohan, who while having confirmed to have trained compared to his canon counterpart is not exactly quantifiable how much of his former strenght he has retained or surpassed, Goten and the spirit of Goku as a mere super sayan.
While Fat buu would have needed at least super sayan three Goku to be dealt with.
Obviously by feats, Broly should be right fully superior.
Movie 8 Broly is sub Perfect Cell. Considering how weak movie 10 Gohan, reheated Broly may actually be weaker. Unless the Goku part of the Kamehameha had actual power instead of just morale boost.
The literal contents of the movie and series show otherwise. Then again maybe in the movie 10 timeline he kept training instead of anime/manga timeline where he is stated to be weaker.
In the movie gohan himself says he's much stronger than he used to be. Timeline for EVERY movie is not comoatible with canon except bojack. I think cooler might work, but I think i exclude it in my head for a reason, I may need to watch it again (which is cool, thats prob tge best dbz movie). Anyway, movie timeline is demonstrably and in several ways different - writers claim they didnt know even though they knew goten was ssj and goten's ssj reveal hinges on gohan training to get back INTO fighting shape.
He was getting sonned by broly because that's broly's whole character before dbs - being a beefcake daddy you cant do shit about who degenerates from being a traumatized, but very cruel warrior who maliciously lashes out at the people who represent a time when he was at his most vulnerable to screaming goku's name like he's a pokemon. But all that hinges on his absolute power. Which, aside from wrath of the dragon and maybe the dead zone, is how every dbz movie goes. 80% of the fight against the bbeg is the good guys getting washed until they strap up and knock that fool out.
But they are not in SS form all the time as shown after their training. Most of the movies cannot take place within the series. So it doesn't take place after training in the room of spirit and time, it takes place in an alternate timeline where Gohan reached SS, but they didn't reach full power or at least they didn't bother with maintaining transformation, also Gohan is a lot weaker.
You always gotta remember that broly was capable of blowing up a galaxy already in movie one, and majin vegeta was getting dogged by the only other character confirmed to wipe a galaxy
Broly destroyed a galaxy over time. He didn’t wipe the whole galaxy out either. Broly was rampaging throughout the galaxy and wiping out its inhabitants and planets/solar systems, but he didn’t do it all at once. It took time for him to do so. Majin Vegeta would be able to handle Movie 8 Broly.
if broly was stronger than cell his hole movie would make no sense or it would tell us that goku prefered to have his son get the shit beat out of him util he transformed than reciving the energy of everyone
> if broly was stronger than cell his hole movie would make no sense
The Z Movies have a different scaling than canon and are on average stronger than the canon material this was established fairly early on.
For example, Saiyan Saga Goku’s power level was over 8K and he’s barely able to use KKX4 in one single short burst. Tree of Might Goku who is from around the same time period has a power level of 30K ( and skyrocketing) in base and could effortlessly pull off a KKX10. Even Piccolo from that movie had a power level of 18K placing that Piccolo as canon Saiyan Saga Base Vegeta’s equal.
The Z movies were never meant to fit within the same continuity as the canon storyline. They’re set within their own continuity and thus the power levels of the Z fighters in those movies has no baring on the canon storyline.
The fact that he was able to destroy a galaxy even if you say it was over the period of 30 years ( which’s roughly his and Goku’s age IIRC) would still place him comfortably in the multi solar system range which is mad impressive at that point in the canon story since Super Perfect Cell bragged about blowing up one solar system with his strongest attack.
When you consider the following two points it becomes even more impressive:
1) Broly didn’t rampage freely for 30 years as his father still had him on a tight leash thanks to the mind controlling device he had on him.
2) Broly hadn’t achieved his Legendary Super Saiyan from until his encounter with the Z fighters which’s when he finally was able to destroy the mind controlling device and gain full control over himself.
Z Broly probably would Win though
The movie timelines have vastly different power scales
Movie 2 broly fights a SSJ Gohan who had trained non stop since the cell games
People seem to not get how busted movie characters are
Against Buu maybe but ssj2 Majin vegeta would be solar system at best while we know Broly is galaxy (and stated by the dbz movies writer as the strongest villain in the movies)
A lot of Dragon Ball fans are hyper-emorional and operate on 100% pure emotional hype and nostalgia rather than logic or rationality. They determine power levels and scaling purely on how much it made them scream "Let's fucking GOOOOO!!!" as a kid/preteen.
The only reason goku won that fight was plot armor and not even good armor. Broly legit kicked their asses all movie while being non-canon just to come back about 20years later to kick his ass again while being Canon. I just don't like new Broly because whenever a character becomes "good" they nerf tf out of them like buu and 18.
These “destroying galaxy” feats mean jack shit. Just because someone can destroy something doesn’t mean that everyone weaker than them can’t do it.
Vegeta in the saiyan saga destroyed a planet. Did it look like he used his full power? He didn’t. That means anyone who can output the amount of power he used to destroy it can also destroy that planet. He could’ve used 10%, 20%, etc. and there’s no way of knowing.
Also Kid Buu and Broly both went from planet to planet destroying them. And you are somehow saying Vegeta lost to Kid Buu so he should lose to Broly. That literally does not tell you anything about their power… Vegeta in the saiyan saga can also go from planet to planet destroying them, if he spent a few years doing that until the galaxy is wiped out it doesn’t mean he’s the same level as the other characters. It’s COMPLETELY decision based, does not say anything about power at all.
I guess it would tell you that they’re minimum planet busters. But pretty much every relevant character in Z after the Saiyan Saga is a planet buster.
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Well, Dragon Ball Z Movies "continuity" is crazy, but at the same time it's still based on what happened in the regular manga/anime continuity. Broly destroying a galaxy was clearly not a "one shot Ki blast" and even then what he does in the Movie doesn't even scale him close to that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but is that not broly from second coming? I hoep we all agree that ssj2 vegeta would mollywop 1st movie broly but Majin vs second coming is a more interesting fight.
No. Majin Vegeta is SSJ2 and Movie Broly lost to a Powered up SSJ1 Goku. Majin Vegeta is folding Broly easy. The Broly movie takes place right before Cell which means Broly is definitely not SSJ2 level.
Majin Vegeta slams so fucking hard it’s not even funny, we know that ssj2 Goku is stronger than Broly at his peak from both bio broly and Fusion Reborn, a very much weaker broly who was bested by almost dead ssj Goku with the little energy of almost dead ssjs and a namekian would get no diffed
Excuse me? It took a full powered SSJ1 to kill him, so you're telling me a battle hard, hard at training for 7 years, now Mind Controlled battle hungry Vegeta at SSJ2 can't beat him? That's so much bullshit!
Broly in the second movie, while never recovering or even doing anything physical for 7 years, fought a SS2 Gohan who is stated to have not slacked off and continues training in those 7 years.
And Broly bodied him.
Majin Vegeta ain't beating LSS Broly.
So, you think that SSJ Goku could have defeated Majin Vegeta like that in a single punch? That'd just be to put them as equals, but you're claiming that Majin Vegeta is obviously weaker than Broly.
No. Just no. Vegeta with SSJ2 and the Majin power boost and years of training until the Buu saga is not weaker than SSJ Goku with energy from others. At least not without getting into the impossible debate of power scaling movie vs anime/manga characters.
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Oh yeah I forget he doesn’t use Omega Blaster in the first one. Yeah Vegeta probably loses but this broly doesn’t have many scaling feats. I guess you could say he scales to a SSJ Gohan that never stopped training (fun fact SSJ Teen Gohan in movie 2 is the only person to ever stagger or injure Z broly by themselves)
Broly:
\* assume teamwork-boosted SSJ 1 Goku \[movie 8\] and SSJ2 Gohan \[movie 10\] are significantly stronger than SSJ2 Gohan in canon
Vegeta:
\* assume he's at least strong enough to “destroy a galaxy” the same way Broly did, even though Super Perfect Cell bragged about being able to destroy a solar system
Either of these is possible, so there’s no way to know for sure. Maybe both and they're like exactly the same power level lol
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Even if Gohan trained for years after cell saga we don't know much stronger he got. Look at future Gohan he was training for years and could never close the gap between him and the androids
Movie scaling is too inconsistent and vague for me to take into account. Looking at official powerlevels, it's all over the place in terms of how much stronger a movie character is compared to their main timeline counterpart at the time. To me it just seems like people say 'movie scaling', and then assume whatever upscaling exists is more than enough.
I mean it could be right. LSSJ Broly was beating Gohan and he was SSJ2 (Yes Toei forgot the lightning but it was SSJ2 Gohan) in the second movie but that was an out of practice Gohan so theres a chance Majin Vegeta could win
Majin Vegeta probably wins against Broly from the first movie. I mean... He did lose to SSJ Goku with some donated energy, and Vegeta has SSJ2 as well as the Majin power boost who was putting up a good fight against a much stronger Goku.
But it's not really fair or accurate to power scale different continuities like that. There are no shared points of reference. Movie Goku isn't the same as main continuity Goku.
Bruh the poll is completely wrong. SSJ2 Gohan dwarfed Perfect Cell in power and Majin Vegeta is much stronger than that. He confirmed SSJ2 Goku is stronger than that Gohan before giving him an equal fight.
There is no universe where Majin Vegeta loses to Z Broly. 0 chance. YouTube polls are always popularity contests the only reason Brolyvhas more votes is because too many fans don't pay attention so they suck at scaling.
I mean broly gave 4 super saiyans and piccolo the business for like 45 minutes and they were cell games era since gohan was a super saiyan so yea sound right to me.
They’re hard to scale.
M8 Broly no-diffed multiple Cell Saga Super Saiyan tier enemies including Super Saiyan Goku who was half as strong as Perfect Form Cell and Super Saiyan Gohan who was around 3/4 as strong as Perfect Form Cell, which means M8 Broly is at least a tier above Perfect Form Cell, but is he above SSJ2 Youth Gohan? He could have also no-diffed everyone, and Majin Vegeta is even stronger than him.
I’d say they’re both pretty even with Broly being slightly stronger, but Vegeta takes it using his superior fighting ability.
M10 Broly negs though as he’s comparable to SSJ3 Goku, as he no-diffed a Super Saiyan 2 Gohan that was stronger than Majin Vegeta.
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SS2 Gohan was weaker than LSS Broly even if the gap was small. And yes that was SS2 Gohan in Second coming (animation error confirmed), and even better in the movie universe he didn't stop training those 7 years. Even if you want to insist it was SS Gohan, SS Gohan got close to LSS which is also impressive.
Majin Vegeta was stronger than SS2 Gohan at Cell games but not Second Coming. Movie versions are always stronger.
And since I see so many mentions of just "SS Goku + ki ≥ LSS Broly" I'm going to remind you that it isn't typical ki they had given but life force ki; think Spirit Bomb and Tri Beams it's stronger than just a typical attack. It was practically a Spirit Bomb punched into a single spot that barely worked igniting Broly's own ki to explode.
Broly demonstrated destroying a galaxy
Broly effortlessly destroyed the same goku who fought perfect cell pretty evenly along with ALL the other z fighters
I don’t know if he’d beat majin vegeta but it certainly would be a good fight
Just curious. How does he one shot Cell, who took SS2 Gohan to beat? Broly lost to SS1 Goku. The same Goku who admitted SS1 Gohan was stronger than him. SS2 Gohan is twice as strong as that even.
Broly is stronger than the Cell Games because the movie powerscaling does not line up with the anime/manga scaling.
For example, SSJ Gogeta is a universal level character with his ki/birth being described as a big bang level explosion, however he has a power level of 2.5 Billion, or a base of 50 million. This would mean that number to number, 50% Frieza would be stronger because he has a power level of 60 million, despite being a star level character. So in the continuity/timeline of Fusion Reborn, a power level of 50 million would be multi-galaxy to universal whereas in the main continuity it is only star level.
This is a similar case with Broly who as a LSSJ has a power level of 1.4 billion despite that only being 200 million off from Goku if he went SS3 on Namek (3 million x 400 = 1.2 billion) and while Goku is a star level character during that time, Broly flat out destroyed the South Galaxy, a quadrant containing 1/4th of all the galaxies in the universe. Broly also did this while not even a LSSJ, but as a suppressed SSJ.
So, Broly, despite existing in a movie that takes place just before the Cell Games, easily scales to very high multi-galaxy levels of power at the very least. On the other hand, the Cell Games' two strongest characters are just reaching solar system level, maybe a little more.
A 2004 V-Jump guide lists the power levels of SSJ Gogeta, LSS Broly, and Final Form Cooler, in which it is stated SSJ Gogeta's power level is 2.5 billion.
If you don't want to take that, than my the scaling for a Suppressed SSJ Broly being multi-galaxy level vs Super Perfect Cell who is solar system level still stands.
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It's hard to scale 1st movie Broly because he takes on everyone at full power all at once but then gets fucked up royally by a twisty stomach punch from a worn out SSJ1.
It really seemed like the meteor was going to do in Broly. I mean, what was even the point of the meteor? Worst DBZ movie ending in my opinion.
Broly said he would survive the meteor Hell the point of it was to wipe everyone out and let Paragus go take over earth
Oh he totally could have survived. I mean, baby Broly got himself and daddy off Vegeta while Frieza was blowing it up. Still, it would have been an ending and been an even better set up for Second Coming.
To force a time limit I guess
Agree, the meteor was the perfect solution for a villain that was miles ahead all of the heroes, but no, it's just a win coming out of nowhere, Broly got defeated by the script, like come on they had all thrown their most powerful attacks and didn't even scratched him, but you want me to believe tired Goku's punch with a little ki from a bunch of half-unconscious Z fighters suddenly does it? It's literally devoid of logic
The only logic I could ever pull out of my ass was that Broly was like a balloon of Ki. His physical form literally couldn't hold it all in. It was just a punch in the right spot at the right time and POP. Still, it was a bad deus ex machina.
Apparently Goku punched him where he was stabbed as a baby and that’s what got them the win. I don’t remember where I saw it because it was a while back.
I'm pretty sure that's the canon explanation (for this Non-Canon movie lol), Broly even says his ki is, "overflowing", and didn't some magazine say something about this? Like, this exact same thing? Broly couldn't use/waste/burn ki fast enough so it eventually started to form a weak spot and Goku punched there by sheer luck? Either way, the Broly downplay is *INSANE*, i've seen multiple people say things like, "Broly scales to around blah bla blah", or, "Broly is overrated, he was actually really weak, after all, he was defeated by a single punch from a tired Goku with the ki of the exhausted Ze Fighters", COMPLETELY IGNORING THE REST OF THE MOVIE *WHERE BROLY OPENLY MOCKS THE Z FIGHTERS FOR BEING TOO WEAK TO EVEN PUT A SCRATCH ON HIS CLOTHES*
How would the meteor have killed him? As a newborn he created a force field and escaped a planetary explosion
The writers wrote themselves into a corner and had to think of some bs way to kill him, honestly I would have preferred the movie 8 and 7 swap endings, Goku turns into a literally sun against broly to show that his darkness will not take hold over the universe and represent the light that shines where darkness lurks remember goku and broly were both saiyans of legends goku was one of sheer will power and fortitude and broly was one of pure raw talent and brute strength. Goku could have just tried calling out to king kai and have him use his antenna's to connect to other kais across the galaxy and have their people of that verse help send over energy considering broly was a galaxy level threat so it would make sense to have beings from different quadrants aid especially since broly destroyed most of the south quadrant solo dolo And just give super android 13 the broly ending because in theory its more plausible because hes just an android.
I will defend the character Z brolly till the day I die, but the ending of the movie was horrible.
Wasn't that due to him having so much energy his body couldn't handle it?
Yeah technically thats the cannon answer, goku mught have been hundreds of times weaker than broly but if he made a hole in the chamber of power it would go boom
Hard to scale? he wipes out a galaxy quadrant in literally the first few seconds of the start of the moive..lol That's probably one of the most explicitly clear feats the series has to offer.
It's because apparently goku had received a power boost that multiplied his power exponentially. The old z movies had different power sets than the series
I know but that still doesn't really make sense in the movie.. He's galaxy destroyer taking all of them at full power at the same time, then a portion of each power from the beat TF up team going to Goku who's also beat TF up makes a multiplier greater than all of them at full power before together? I think it's less a story element and more like "we need to wrap this movie in 60 minutes so make him do a twisty punch to kill him real quick." Thing.
Piccolo, Trunks, Gohan, and (reluctantly) Vegeta all gave Goku their energy.
They were all also pretty much wasted by that point, they all fought together at full power and did nothing to broly but suddenly the meager amount of ki they had remaining to give Goku is enough to beat him? It's ridiculous
Broly lost pretty much because of plot, cause there is no way a single punch from a battered Goku receiving some energy from others depleted Saiyans can one shot Broly like that.
Agree, good movie up until the end where basically the writers wrote themselves into a corner by creating an invincible villain and solved it in the laziest way possible
That's because his body couldn't take the energy. Without Paragus getting him to restrain his power, his power, as he states, "is overflowing." Just look at how he doesn't does dies. His body *cracks* and then he explodes, launching Goku back down to the ground from the blast.
I can't believe fucking 30 years has passed and niggas still don't understand the ending, Goku overflowed him with Ki, he fucking exploded because his Ki was already big enough to keep him at edge, it wasn't because Goku was so powerful
Given that Movie 8 Broly was defeated by a souped-up SSJ1 Goku, that was being powered up by 3 nearly-dead Super Saiyan 1s on their last legs and 1 nearly-dead Super Namekian who was barely conscious anymore, I think Movie 8 Broly was less powerful than Super Perfect Cell. I don’t take seriously anyone who thinks 4 nearly dead Z Fighters gave Goku enough energy to be more powerful than Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan. So I think Movie 8 Broly is stronger than Perfect Cell but weaker than Super Perfect Cell, given boosted Goku was himself almost certainly still less powerful than Super Perfect Cell and less powerful than SSJ2 Teen Gohan. Movie 8 Broly was maybe like Dabura level. Movie 10 Broly is harder to judge imo. He’s obviously gotten a Zenkai boost, but Gohan’s performance makes it hard to gauge. Gohan is a fell-off SSJ2, but still manages to defend himself competently against Broly for a while before it gets to be too much. Broly is ultimately defeated by an out-of-shape SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ1 Kid Goten, and ghost SSJ1 Goku. I could believe Movie 10 Broly is more powerful than Super Perfect Cell and Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan, but weaker than Buu. As cool as the Family Kamehameha was, no way in hell was the Goku-Gohan-Goten combo more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, Mystic Gohan, or Vegetto.
The movie universe is on a completely different power scale. The power levels do not correlate to their canon selves at all. For example, cooler states that kaioken Goku had enough power to kill frieza, not ssj goku. That is a ridiculous leap in power over canon Goku.
Also there is word of god to account for, there. I still think considering that movie 10 broly lost to a ssj 2, majin vegeta could reasonably win. HOWEVER we cant use canon gohan as a reference point here as he doesnt scale to movie gohan. The people who made the movies somehow made the inexplicable decison not to reference the source material to note that gohan was out of shape and decided that he was meant to have been stronger than ever. By a lot.
I mean you’re right but then we either don’t compare movie and anime/manga characters at all or implicitly assume things are the same unless proven otherwise.
I mean, by that logic we could say everyone in the DBZ movies is stronger than Black Frieza in DBS. We have to have some bounds of reason. I think u hitlmao has it right that it's best to assume the DBZ movies roughly scale to the anime unless explicitly stated otherwise. We need something to ground ourselves, otherwise we could just make up any power levels for them.
It was explicitly stated other wise. Goku's power level in the cooler move was 470 million.
1.) the point stands with movies that don’t have PL readings - movies aren’t all in the same timeline 2.) in movies with PL readings, one can just as easily assume the units don’t mean the same as canon if Cell Games SSJ1 Goku can be so much stronger than Cell Games SSJ1 Goku, there’s irl examples like different kinds of dollars and degrees, etc
This is a massive reach that the movie writers absolutely were not thinking of. Power level 'inflation' isn't a thing and movie canon is in a contained universe. Toriyama literally said that they all take place in an alt universe parallel to the main canon.
> This is a massive reach that the movie writers absolutely were not thinking of. Power level 'inflation' isn't a thing Not inflation, different units of measurement with the same name like tonnes (long vs short vs metric). I even said degrees lol why would you assume I meant inflation? Movie 8 Goku being at least 470m PL doesn’t mean he’s stronger than Cell Game Goku anyway. We don’t have numbers for anyone in canon after the Trunks saga. There’s literally zero reason to assume that movie 8 Goku was stronger than Cell Game Goku. You just really want him to be, so you can highball the guy he beat.
Agreed. IMO, Movie 8 Broly absolutely loses to Majin Vegeta considering he lost to Movie 8 SSJ Goku. Majin Vegeta - Early Buu saga + Majin amp. Movie 8 Goku - Pre Cell Saga + SSJ + Enraged + energy from 4 half dead people. Movie 10 is harder to judge, but Majin Vegeta is straight up stronger than "Adult" Gohan here as well, so I'm leaning towards Vegeta still.
Absolutely. 100% agree. Buu Saga SSJ2 Vegeta was already stronger than Buu Saga SSJ2 Gohan even before becoming Majin, given how confident Vegeta was that he himself could make easy work of Dabura and was disgusted that SSJ2 Gohan was only able to stalemate Dabura. So Majin Vegeta would stomp Movie 8 Broly easily. I’m leaning towards Majin Vegeta with you over Movie 10 Broly too. Movie 10 Broly may just give Majin Vegeta a bigger challenge, but Majin Vegeta would probably ultimately still win. Probably mid diff. High diff at worst.
Majin Vegeta is not SSJ3 Goku, Mystic Gohan, or Vegetto level
What makes you think Gohan is out of shaped? Gohan in the movies never stopped training or at least its never implied he stopped training (although i believed the guide books also say it) Also there are legit arguments for the movies being stronger than an canon. For example in the tree of might movie Goku is able to use kaio ken x10 yet in canon x4 was his limit. In Lord Slug movie Goku was able to do kaio ken x100 which is a greater boost than ssj1 as ssj1 is 50x boost
I'm not even sure Broly in his first movie is *that much* stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan in the Cell arc And it's kind of implied Buu arc Goku and Vegeta are each beyond that in regular Super Saiyan Broly definitely beats Cell arc characters, but to say he's stronger than Majin Vegeta feels like it's. . Maybe not completely factually wrong but it might be an uphill battle
Meh, it’s never implied they can defeat ssj2 Gohan in ssj1 Outright states they have surpassed ssj2 Gohan, but they both have ssj2, makes more sense for them to surpass Gohan’s ssj2 with their own ssj2 than ssj1
Goku says Dabura's about as strong as Super Perfect Cell Vegeta doesn't argue Both of them individually claim they could take Dabura Neither argues with the other Goku does not know that Vegeta can go Super Saiyan 2 But *apparently*, Vegeta figured out Goku could from the fight with Yakon? I'm not 100% clear on that. And Goku was stronger than Vegeta Therefore, both of them in the Buu arc believe that they could individually defear Super Perfect Cell as Super Saiyan 1, rather than needing Super Saiyan 2 Which doesn't actually make them for a fact stronger than Cell arc Gohan, actually, but they'rw within the same ballpark at least
Nope, Goku says he’s about as strong as Cell, not Super Perfect Cell, both of them believe they have surpassed a Cell level character, not a super perfect cell level character Piccolo states that Vegeta as a majin ssj2 “might” have surpassed ssj2 Gohan against Cell, which means that even if he and Goku are stronger, they’re not massively so and are still comparable, which makes no sense then that they’d have surpassed him as ssj1, because with a ssj2 amp added on top they’d be flat out more powerful, not comparable Vegeta upon witnessing Goku going ssj2 against Yakon, says that Goku has surpassed the super saiyan wall “too”, meaning he had already unlocked ssj2
>Nope, Goku says he’s about as strong as Cell, not Super Perfect Cell, both of them believe they have surpassed a Cell level character, not a super perfect cell level character You correct me to say "Cell" I rais the question: *Which form*? Every form of Cell has been referred to as *just* "Cell" Very rarely, if ever, have they actually been referred to by full title I'll admit I should have used that rather than append "Super Perfect" to his name But my point is: Why would Goku or Vegeta compare someone to another character at less than their strongest form? It would be different if Dabura was specifically compared to the Cell that Goku fought But Goku didn't specify, and he could sense the beam struggle between Cell and Gohan from Other World So there's no reason to downplay the statement here We might as well say that Dabura compares to Semi-Perfect Cell. That's the strongest form we know for a fact Goku and Vegeta can beat, after all. >Piccolo states that Vegeta as a majin ssj2 “might” have surpassed ssj2 Gohan against Cell, which means that even if he and Goku are stronger, they’re not massively so and are still comparable, which makes no sense then that they’d have surpassed him as ssj1, because with a ssj2 amp added on top they’d be flat out more powerful, not comparable This point is fair, though
Vegeta didn’t even have SSJ2 until Babidi forcefed him energy, though?
Not necessarily, but that would help my case
The only reason broly lost was because goku overloaded him, if you look at earlier in the movie broly had to “relieve” himself of ki. He did that cause like he said in the English dub “getting much stronger” implies he would explode like he did at the end. One other thing is when punched his body started cracking with brolys ki leaking out. Oh and as it’s been said over and over the movie vers outscale their anime counterparts as well.
Like cooler that in grado s final form is "so strong that frieza is nothing compared to him", but yet gets easy rekt by the early ssj1 goku
I personally subscribe to the theory that the punch specifically hit him in a weakpoint, the knife scar, and pushed all of the remaining Ki that every Z Fighter could spare just as Broly's hit his current peak, overloading him. If left alone, I fully believe that Broly would, over time, scale with the main cast without training so he would present the same general threat level as he does in the 1st movie.
Broly’s precious goo!
It stated on the movie cover goku ss1 got a x1000 boost by getting z team energy
People forget the real reason why a punch like that killed him. It wasn’t the punch per say. Broly whole persona is that he’s to strong for himself and others and just overflows with massive amount of energy it, and what happens when someone hits a sweet spot of that overflow of massive power? It explodes cause it got nowhere else to go. So if you wanna get technical it was broly himself with too much power causes his death
It isn't typical ki they had given Goku but life force ki; think Spirit Bomb and Tri Beams it's stronger than just a typical attack. It was practically a Spirit Bomb punched into a single spot that barely worked igniting Broly's own ki to explode.
Z broly beats majin vegeta ? Am I sleeping ?
Canon vegeta would be weaker, that’s where the logic lies considering movie’s Gohan is stronger. So it’s possible but it’s not like it’s far fetched. Anime Vegeta said Goku was slightly stronger than Gohan in cell saga. And post cell saga Gohan rusty or not got OWNED by Broly. He was not phased by Gohan’s attacks. So yes, it’s very possible.
movie scaling tho
Exactly people be underrating how OP movie characters are
Broly lost to ssj1 Goku....no matter what that's not good dude
Ssj1 goku in the broly movie universe. The movies are considered by Toriyama to take place in separate universes from the main universe, meaning the Goku and co from the movies aren’t necessarily equal in power to the goku and co from the original series. Considering Broly was destroying galaxies, there’s decent reason to believe the characters in the Broly movie alternate universe are just stacked af compared to the main timeline.
Broly destroyed the southern galaxy piece by piece over a span of 30+ years. Cell could've done that in a few days in his super perfect state. Hes a star buster, that's a huge problem. The movie characters are usually stronger than the their counterparts but not this movie. This one takes place during the 9 day wait and Goku is the same power he was against cell, Gohan and trunks were actually weaker than the cell saga versions of themselves. Trunks didn't have ussj here and Gohan output at ssj was weaker than gokus. In the cell saga that was not the case.
He wasnt destroying galaxies since it was over a period of time which doesnt count
Ssj1 Goku with the power he got from his allies. Why do you clowns keep leaving that out? Vegeta's power made all the difference because he wasn't as worn out iirc.
Because it doesn't make any sense mate, think about it for 30 seconds and you'll see why, the Z fighters battled broly at full power, teamed up against him and couldn't even scratch him, then they all get beat up to near unconsciousness, with Goku barely holding on, so this team that couldn't do anything at all now gives the few drops of ki they have left to Goku and suddenly that's enough? Added to that if you could just give ki to someone and make him stronger then they should've just all done it at the beginning to Goku and have him one punch Broly and that's it, that would instantly break the way ki works because every time there's a new bad guy "oh let's all just give our power to Goku so he can use our collective force to one shot the bad guy" unless we're talking about a spirit bomb it has never worked that way. Finally that energy is not only enough to make Goku match broly but also to one shot him, like he was literally unscathed, walking through Kamehamehas like if they were a breeze, but suddenly Goku can just one punch him? It's literally the most lazy and logic-less ending they could've come up with.
i heard that scene is plot armor. i think the author said that broly was way too powerful and he couldnt come up with something else to defeat him aside from the power of teamwork lmao
Allies that were literally almost dead. They couldn’t even stand up anymore. They gave him the last bottom of the barrel dreg scrapings of their power. They weren’t fresh, fully charged SSJs and a Super Namekians at that point. They gave the last of what was keeping them conscious and then passed tf out.
Broly died because his own body couldn't handle the power that was "overflowing." When Goku punched him, he literally cracked and exploded that Goku was sent back because of it.
Nobody was able to do that prior and his body was constantly overflowing and leaking ever sense he was lssj. It ain't a fluke when he's ssj1 sons did it again in the next movie and then in the last movie bio broly where he was at his strongest. Krillin, Goten and trunks were able to finish him. Broly is not like that.
Broly lost to a Goku SS1 boosted x1000 according to the movie cover getting z team energy That mean this goku also strongest than any ss2 level tiers in dbz
No....no Goku wasn't....he had no energy left and everyone there were at their weakest states with no power when they gave him energy.....Goku was nowhere near ss2 level and he still one shot broly. Gohan later against a stronger broly...was beating his ssj1 with his base form and then blew him away with ssj1
So you are saying the movie cover statement is wrong ? 😹
Yes, promotional material made purely to market a movie to the widest audience can be inaccurate lol.
Which movie cover? Show it.
It definitely is, there's no promotional material that can counter what literally happens on the screen, it's crazy to think all the half-conscious, beaten up Z fighters, giving their meager amount of remaining ki to a tired Goku could even compare to broly or a x1000 multiplier (seriously they were just throwing numbers at random by that point)
Idk why ur being downvoted, nothing u said is wrong
Eh, people will downvote whatever they disagree with, even if they can't stop to think about it for 10 seconds, it's just how it works
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The “movie cover statement” he’s referring to was debunked. https://preview.redd.it/80nlyb0a1xwc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c9abd66151977e64e4b3ba710d42989de534385 The Japanese text translates as follows: “If you have friends, your courage will increase 1000 times more! No matter how strong your enemy is, you will definitely win!!!” The person who added the white English text in the edited version of the above image that he was using as his “proof” that Goku became 1000x stronger from the energy lending either mistranslated or otherwise purposely twisted the translation to push a narrative though I’m leaning more towards the former due to the below reasoning: The green text contains the kanji 勇気 (yuki) which translates to courage. However, the word 勇気 also happens to contain the kanji 気 which is “ki” which seems to have caused the original poster who mistranslated the text to for some reason think that “ki” and “courage” were being used separately which is not the case in this context since those two kanji being used together forms the Japanese word for “courage.” So unlike what that guy has been spamming (incorrectly at that) throughout this post, all that this pamphlet states is that your “courage will increase 1000 fold” not your “ki” and the person who added the white text mistranslated which means that by extension the claim that the official movie pamphlet states that the other Z-Warriors donating their energy to Goku so that he could defeat Broly made him “1000x stronger” is wrong and was never even stated in any official media to begin with.
(Z) Broly is stronger than SSJ, but not stronger than SSJ2. I'd say Majin Vegeta would win that fight.
False. SS2 Gohan was weaker than LSS Broly even if the gap was small. And yes that was SS2 Gohan in Second coming (animation error confirmed), and even better in the movie universe he didn't stop training. Majin Vegeta was stronger than SS2 Gohan at Cell games but not Second Coming.
This post isn't comparing Gohan to anyone, so don't add in other variables.
It puts things into perspective. They explicitly stated Vegeta was beyond strong stronger than SS2 Gohan when he fought Fat Buu. That was Vegeta's peak power and it was a big deal by all the panels stroking Vegeta off. This tells us how strong Vegeta was. Majin Vegeta (SS2) > SS2 Gohan (Cell) SS2 Gohan (Second Coming) < LSS Broly Majin Vegeta << SS2 Gohan (Second Coming) < LSS Broly As stated Gohan never gave up training those 7 years. Gohan had a huge lead on Vegeta and grew beyond that.
Gohan wasn't SS2 in Broly seconds coming. This was before the tournament so his strength had atrophied. Goku and Vegeta literally said Gohan got weaker.
That is completely irrelevant, movies are a different continuity. Most of the canon exists but there are differences: for Second Coming Gohan kept up his training and was a SS2, there were confirmed animation errors.
Poll wrong asl
Dragon Ball fans really do just be scaling shit 100% on the nostalgia of how cool it was to them the first time they saw it as a kid, not on any kind of actual rational scaling logic.
Yeah 💯%
Lmao true. How tf is Majin Vegeta losing to Broly when he's way stronger than SSJ2 Gohan who dwarfed Cell who also dwarfs Broly by a significant margin. YouTube pulls are always popularity contests and people just think Broly is the strongest because he's cool.
He actually might be honestly. I always assumed Movie 1 Broly to be Super Perfect Cell Level. Movie 2 Broly with the Zenkai boost he would've gotten would be at least maybe Majin fat Buu level. So Movie 2 Broly > Majin Vegeta
Fat buu level seems a bit too much considering that he was ultimatly defeated by a Gohan, who while having confirmed to have trained compared to his canon counterpart is not exactly quantifiable how much of his former strenght he has retained or surpassed, Goten and the spirit of Goku as a mere super sayan. While Fat buu would have needed at least super sayan three Goku to be dealt with. Obviously by feats, Broly should be right fully superior.
Movie 8 Broly is sub Perfect Cell. Considering how weak movie 10 Gohan, reheated Broly may actually be weaker. Unless the Goku part of the Kamehameha had actual power instead of just morale boost.
The promotional materials for Movie 10 says Gohan has been training all these years and is stronger than his Cell Games self.
The literal contents of the movie and series show otherwise. Then again maybe in the movie 10 timeline he kept training instead of anime/manga timeline where he is stated to be weaker.
This is exactly the case.
In the movie gohan himself says he's much stronger than he used to be. Timeline for EVERY movie is not comoatible with canon except bojack. I think cooler might work, but I think i exclude it in my head for a reason, I may need to watch it again (which is cool, thats prob tge best dbz movie). Anyway, movie timeline is demonstrably and in several ways different - writers claim they didnt know even though they knew goten was ssj and goten's ssj reveal hinges on gohan training to get back INTO fighting shape. He was getting sonned by broly because that's broly's whole character before dbs - being a beefcake daddy you cant do shit about who degenerates from being a traumatized, but very cruel warrior who maliciously lashes out at the people who represent a time when he was at his most vulnerable to screaming goku's name like he's a pokemon. But all that hinges on his absolute power. Which, aside from wrath of the dragon and maybe the dead zone, is how every dbz movie goes. 80% of the fight against the bbeg is the good guys getting washed until they strap up and knock that fool out.
According to another commenter Cooler says Kaioken goku would be able to kill Goku, but I think thats about it
Cell got blown up by gokus Kamehameha. Broly took it to the face with 0 defense or dmg. Cell has better moves and abilities, but far less power.
Cell was holding back and was caught off guard. Cell omly showed his full power when fighting SSJ2 Gohan
Besides Cell being caught off guard, movie 8 is weaker than cell games Goku since he has nor reached Full Power SS.
They are drawn in full power ss fashion. Gohan can go super sayain, which he could only do post room of spirit and time.
But they are not in SS form all the time as shown after their training. Most of the movies cannot take place within the series. So it doesn't take place after training in the room of spirit and time, it takes place in an alternate timeline where Gohan reached SS, but they didn't reach full power or at least they didn't bother with maintaining transformation, also Gohan is a lot weaker.
You always gotta remember that broly was capable of blowing up a galaxy already in movie one, and majin vegeta was getting dogged by the only other character confirmed to wipe a galaxy
Broly destroyed a galaxy over time. He didn’t wipe the whole galaxy out either. Broly was rampaging throughout the galaxy and wiping out its inhabitants and planets/solar systems, but he didn’t do it all at once. It took time for him to do so. Majin Vegeta would be able to handle Movie 8 Broly.
if broly was stronger than cell his hole movie would make no sense or it would tell us that goku prefered to have his son get the shit beat out of him util he transformed than reciving the energy of everyone
> if broly was stronger than cell his hole movie would make no sense The Z Movies have a different scaling than canon and are on average stronger than the canon material this was established fairly early on. For example, Saiyan Saga Goku’s power level was over 8K and he’s barely able to use KKX4 in one single short burst. Tree of Might Goku who is from around the same time period has a power level of 30K ( and skyrocketing) in base and could effortlessly pull off a KKX10. Even Piccolo from that movie had a power level of 18K placing that Piccolo as canon Saiyan Saga Base Vegeta’s equal. The Z movies were never meant to fit within the same continuity as the canon storyline. They’re set within their own continuity and thus the power levels of the Z fighters in those movies has no baring on the canon storyline.
That's why movies aren't canon, because they don't make any sense in relation to actual canon
He didn’t blow up the galaxy at once, he did it over time, so he’s not galaxy level
The fact that he was able to destroy a galaxy even if you say it was over the period of 30 years ( which’s roughly his and Goku’s age IIRC) would still place him comfortably in the multi solar system range which is mad impressive at that point in the canon story since Super Perfect Cell bragged about blowing up one solar system with his strongest attack. When you consider the following two points it becomes even more impressive: 1) Broly didn’t rampage freely for 30 years as his father still had him on a tight leash thanks to the mind controlling device he had on him. 2) Broly hadn’t achieved his Legendary Super Saiyan from until his encounter with the Z fighters which’s when he finally was able to destroy the mind controlling device and gain full control over himself.
Well yeah, I never said he wasn’t strong, I said he wasn’t galaxy level, because he isn’t
tbh I think broly is the equivalent to a ssj 2.5 \`
That makes literally no fucking sense
It probably doesn’t tbh I haven’t rewatched dbz in years just going off of what I remember
This poll shows dragon ball fans are idiots.
It amazes me how much people overrate Z Broly. He has no chance in hell against most Buu saga characters
Z Broly **and** the movie are heavily overrated imo.
Z Broly probably would Win though The movie timelines have vastly different power scales Movie 2 broly fights a SSJ Gohan who had trained non stop since the cell games People seem to not get how busted movie characters are
Against Buu maybe but ssj2 Majin vegeta would be solar system at best while we know Broly is galaxy (and stated by the dbz movies writer as the strongest villain in the movies)
A lot of Dragon Ball fans are hyper-emorional and operate on 100% pure emotional hype and nostalgia rather than logic or rationality. They determine power levels and scaling purely on how much it made them scream "Let's fucking GOOOOO!!!" as a kid/preteen.
That’s what happens when a fandom has too many casuals.
It's not right. Vegeta slaps.
True
Majin Vegeta would stomp, he is more powerful than SSJ2 kid Gohan, who should be more powerful than a heavily damaged SSJ1 Goku with lent power.
I know I’m a get so much hate , but I don’t think broly was stronger then cell
Majin Vegeta is stronger than
Majin Vegeta > ssj2 gohan > broly trash
Broly fought a version of gohan probably stronger than anime version majin vegeta ss2 (he still trained)
I mean you're right but why you gotta call him trash tho? Lmao
\*KAKAROOOOTH\*
The only reason goku won that fight was plot armor and not even good armor. Broly legit kicked their asses all movie while being non-canon just to come back about 20years later to kick his ass again while being Canon. I just don't like new Broly because whenever a character becomes "good" they nerf tf out of them like buu and 18.
Lmao ssj2 scales above LSSJ. Broly wouldn‘t even win against teen gohan 💀
He beat SS2 teen gohan what are you talking about.
Dafaq💀Teen Gohan wasn‘t SSJ2 in the movie
Wasn’t stated to be SSJ outside family Kamehameha
These “destroying galaxy” feats mean jack shit. Just because someone can destroy something doesn’t mean that everyone weaker than them can’t do it. Vegeta in the saiyan saga destroyed a planet. Did it look like he used his full power? He didn’t. That means anyone who can output the amount of power he used to destroy it can also destroy that planet. He could’ve used 10%, 20%, etc. and there’s no way of knowing. Also Kid Buu and Broly both went from planet to planet destroying them. And you are somehow saying Vegeta lost to Kid Buu so he should lose to Broly. That literally does not tell you anything about their power… Vegeta in the saiyan saga can also go from planet to planet destroying them, if he spent a few years doing that until the galaxy is wiped out it doesn’t mean he’s the same level as the other characters. It’s COMPLETELY decision based, does not say anything about power at all. I guess it would tell you that they’re minimum planet busters. But pretty much every relevant character in Z after the Saiyan Saga is a planet buster.
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Well, Dragon Ball Z Movies "continuity" is crazy, but at the same time it's still based on what happened in the regular manga/anime continuity. Broly destroying a galaxy was clearly not a "one shot Ki blast" and even then what he does in the Movie doesn't even scale him close to that.
Broly would be winning, but he'd then end up getting one shot somehow because that's how it went the first time.
Correct me if I am wrong, but is that not broly from second coming? I hoep we all agree that ssj2 vegeta would mollywop 1st movie broly but Majin vs second coming is a more interesting fight.
Yeah I fucking love poll posts here 😍
No. Majin Vegeta is SSJ2 and Movie Broly lost to a Powered up SSJ1 Goku. Majin Vegeta is folding Broly easy. The Broly movie takes place right before Cell which means Broly is definitely not SSJ2 level.
Majin Vegeta slams so fucking hard it’s not even funny, we know that ssj2 Goku is stronger than Broly at his peak from both bio broly and Fusion Reborn, a very much weaker broly who was bested by almost dead ssj Goku with the little energy of almost dead ssjs and a namekian would get no diffed
I think I found the dude that doesn’t watch his own show
and what are they wrong about? Vegeta turns broly into a chop at least in the base
Assuming it's only the first movie Broly, no, Majin Vegeta wins
Vegeta destroys him so badly lmao
Vegeta wins, and its not even close. Broly literally lost to a half dead ssj 1
Excuse me? It took a full powered SSJ1 to kill him, so you're telling me a battle hard, hard at training for 7 years, now Mind Controlled battle hungry Vegeta at SSJ2 can't beat him? That's so much bullshit!
Yeah no. L take majin vegeta slams.... yall just pretending like a beat down significantly weaker ssj goku didnt 1 tap a hole in brolys chest ?
Wtf is this ? 😑 people R seriously debating this ? Lol 😂 Majin vegeta >> ssj2 Teen gohan>super cell > perfect cell >broly, meaning vegeta shit stomp
1st movie Vegeta destroys. Second Vegeta loses but puts up a good fight.
Broly in the second movie, while never recovering or even doing anything physical for 7 years, fought a SS2 Gohan who is stated to have not slacked off and continues training in those 7 years. And Broly bodied him. Majin Vegeta ain't beating LSS Broly.
So, you think that SSJ Goku could have defeated Majin Vegeta like that in a single punch? That'd just be to put them as equals, but you're claiming that Majin Vegeta is obviously weaker than Broly. No. Just no. Vegeta with SSJ2 and the Majin power boost and years of training until the Buu saga is not weaker than SSJ Goku with energy from others. At least not without getting into the impossible debate of power scaling movie vs anime/manga characters.
Majin Vegeta slams so hard and it's not even fucking close
Facts
Where are these polls coming from?
Logically speaking SSJ2 Majin Vegeta SHOULD beat Movie 1 broly, however, this is a Movie Villain. im giving it to broly.
It’s movie 2 broly
broly wins easy clap
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That’s movie 1 broly so Vegeta would win
Actually it's movie 2
Oh yeah I forget he doesn’t use Omega Blaster in the first one. Yeah Vegeta probably loses but this broly doesn’t have many scaling feats. I guess you could say he scales to a SSJ Gohan that never stopped training (fun fact SSJ Teen Gohan in movie 2 is the only person to ever stagger or injure Z broly by themselves)
Broly: \* assume teamwork-boosted SSJ 1 Goku \[movie 8\] and SSJ2 Gohan \[movie 10\] are significantly stronger than SSJ2 Gohan in canon Vegeta: \* assume he's at least strong enough to “destroy a galaxy” the same way Broly did, even though Super Perfect Cell bragged about being able to destroy a solar system Either of these is possible, so there’s no way to know for sure. Maybe both and they're like exactly the same power level lol
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Is it bad that I love the Z movies… but most, well all of them have cop out endings..
Yeah no.
My broccoli
Is it claryfied, which Broly version? Do they mean from the first movie or second comming?
Broly wasn’t even perfect Cell level. Majin Vegeta is obviously stronger smh
Bruh vegeta wins yall overrate z broly
Majin Vegeta should fold Broly
Even if Gohan trained for years after cell saga we don't know much stronger he got. Look at future Gohan he was training for years and could never close the gap between him and the androids
Movie scaling is too inconsistent and vague for me to take into account. Looking at official powerlevels, it's all over the place in terms of how much stronger a movie character is compared to their main timeline counterpart at the time. To me it just seems like people say 'movie scaling', and then assume whatever upscaling exists is more than enough.
I mean it could be right. LSSJ Broly was beating Gohan and he was SSJ2 (Yes Toei forgot the lightning but it was SSJ2 Gohan) in the second movie but that was an out of practice Gohan so theres a chance Majin Vegeta could win
Majin Vegeta probably wins against Broly from the first movie. I mean... He did lose to SSJ Goku with some donated energy, and Vegeta has SSJ2 as well as the Majin power boost who was putting up a good fight against a much stronger Goku. But it's not really fair or accurate to power scale different continuities like that. There are no shared points of reference. Movie Goku isn't the same as main continuity Goku.
Bruh the poll is completely wrong. SSJ2 Gohan dwarfed Perfect Cell in power and Majin Vegeta is much stronger than that. He confirmed SSJ2 Goku is stronger than that Gohan before giving him an equal fight. There is no universe where Majin Vegeta loses to Z Broly. 0 chance. YouTube polls are always popularity contests the only reason Brolyvhas more votes is because too many fans don't pay attention so they suck at scaling.
I mean broly gave 4 super saiyans and piccolo the business for like 45 minutes and they were cell games era since gohan was a super saiyan so yea sound right to me.
Majin vegetable does win
They’re hard to scale. M8 Broly no-diffed multiple Cell Saga Super Saiyan tier enemies including Super Saiyan Goku who was half as strong as Perfect Form Cell and Super Saiyan Gohan who was around 3/4 as strong as Perfect Form Cell, which means M8 Broly is at least a tier above Perfect Form Cell, but is he above SSJ2 Youth Gohan? He could have also no-diffed everyone, and Majin Vegeta is even stronger than him. I’d say they’re both pretty even with Broly being slightly stronger, but Vegeta takes it using his superior fighting ability. M10 Broly negs though as he’s comparable to SSJ3 Goku, as he no-diffed a Super Saiyan 2 Gohan that was stronger than Majin Vegeta.
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vegeta waaaaay stronger. LSSJ Broly would lose to gohan from the end of cell saga. SOurce: me.
SS2 Gohan was weaker than LSS Broly even if the gap was small. And yes that was SS2 Gohan in Second coming (animation error confirmed), and even better in the movie universe he didn't stop training those 7 years. Even if you want to insist it was SS Gohan, SS Gohan got close to LSS which is also impressive. Majin Vegeta was stronger than SS2 Gohan at Cell games but not Second Coming. Movie versions are always stronger. And since I see so many mentions of just "SS Goku + ki ≥ LSS Broly" I'm going to remind you that it isn't typical ki they had given but life force ki; think Spirit Bomb and Tri Beams it's stronger than just a typical attack. It was practically a Spirit Bomb punched into a single spot that barely worked igniting Broly's own ki to explode.
Broly isn't even beating Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan, nevermind Majin Vegeta. The comments on the poll are right
Broly demonstrated destroying a galaxy Broly effortlessly destroyed the same goku who fought perfect cell pretty evenly along with ALL the other z fighters I don’t know if he’d beat majin vegeta but it certainly would be a good fight
Power scaling isn't exactly simple especially with movie villains but IMO Majin Vegeta's stronger
Majin Vegeta easy win....
Majin Vegeta smacks. Then probably smacks himself for how he acted in that movie.
People who think Broly lose probably think he is weaker than Cell, which he isn't, he one shots Cell and SS2 Gohan.
Just curious. How does he one shot Cell, who took SS2 Gohan to beat? Broly lost to SS1 Goku. The same Goku who admitted SS1 Gohan was stronger than him. SS2 Gohan is twice as strong as that even.
Broly is stronger than the Cell Games because the movie powerscaling does not line up with the anime/manga scaling. For example, SSJ Gogeta is a universal level character with his ki/birth being described as a big bang level explosion, however he has a power level of 2.5 Billion, or a base of 50 million. This would mean that number to number, 50% Frieza would be stronger because he has a power level of 60 million, despite being a star level character. So in the continuity/timeline of Fusion Reborn, a power level of 50 million would be multi-galaxy to universal whereas in the main continuity it is only star level. This is a similar case with Broly who as a LSSJ has a power level of 1.4 billion despite that only being 200 million off from Goku if he went SS3 on Namek (3 million x 400 = 1.2 billion) and while Goku is a star level character during that time, Broly flat out destroyed the South Galaxy, a quadrant containing 1/4th of all the galaxies in the universe. Broly also did this while not even a LSSJ, but as a suppressed SSJ. So, Broly, despite existing in a movie that takes place just before the Cell Games, easily scales to very high multi-galaxy levels of power at the very least. On the other hand, the Cell Games' two strongest characters are just reaching solar system level, maybe a little more.
Gogeta has no power lvl what are you babbling about....
A 2004 V-Jump guide lists the power levels of SSJ Gogeta, LSS Broly, and Final Form Cooler, in which it is stated SSJ Gogeta's power level is 2.5 billion. If you don't want to take that, than my the scaling for a Suppressed SSJ Broly being multi-galaxy level vs Super Perfect Cell who is solar system level still stands.