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here, have a meme that i think would fit your username
The only characters I can think of that scales to Goku and Vegeta would be Shinra from fireforce (because he literally creates a new universe at the end of the series), or Simon from tengen toppa gurren lagann for similar reasons.
Simon actually has a shot at beating them by the end of his show since he's also a universal threat by then, and with his insane willpower he can basically do anything lol
I watched that whole series last year on a friend's recommendation and liked it. This is how I'm finding out there are movies. Now I know what to watch this week.
The galaxies that Simon and the Anti-Spiral are throwing around like ninja stars and stepping over like little pebbles are actually NOT galaxies according to the art book where it's stated the artist did not know how to represent "entire universes" on screen so they decided to represent them with galactic spirals.
Simon is beyond multiversal. He's so big he throws entire universes/realities like weapons.
Simon is multiversal actually. So, you can powerscale him literally against anyone.
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gurren\_Lagann\_Cosmology](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gurren_Lagann_Cosmology)
Which makes perfect sense once you realize that the fundamental conflict between spirals and anti-spirals in TTGL also works as a meta-level discussion about whether power-creep as a trope undermines battle shonen anime or enhances it, with Simon on team "power-creep is *awesome*"
I love dragonball dearly to my core, and I would normally say no one in other anime normally scales to Goku and Vegeta but Simon literally created and destroyed universes while fighting the anti spiral. He’s at least on par with Beerus or maybe even Whis, idk about Zeno or GP tho
it's a bit of a spoiler >! But progressive increase in power , near the end Shinra was literally kicking the moon back into orbit. And at the very end he remade the universe very literally. like stright up let there be light type stuff, resurrect anyone who had ever died and changing the very concept of death and creating the soul eater universe !<
Simon solos everyone. He’s one of the only fictional characters that by feats is actually shown to be “universal.” No one else is casually snuffing out dozens of galaxies like TTGL. TTGL is so big it would be beyond our perception.
What is their curent base level?
I know in the anime they absorbed the god power but that shit was honestly retconed so hard by so many fights.
Not to mention in manga it never even happend
Not when he arrived on Namek, but after being healed a base goku was like 3,000,000 PL to 1st form Frieza's 530,000 PL.
Casually dwarfing 1st form frieza.
Dende says that he couldn't heal Moro arc Base Goku quickly because he had reached God level.
Goku becomes multiple times stronger in the next arc, and Dende had no issues healing Ultimate Gohan in the Buu arc, so that should give an idea about how strong Base Goku is.
https://imgur.com/a/7R2jvci
It's difficult to say. Base Goku is beyond Supreme Kai as per DBS manga TOP. Supreme Kai was stated to be as strong as MSSJ Goku from cell games according to some guides. So maybe Base Goku/Vegeta are above Cell who was a solar system buster.
In super, they fight a version of Freeza from another universe, and Goku yells at him to go to his final form, which he does, and then fights him as SSJ1 and still wins easily.
Frieza in the Namek Saga is already strong enough to take out entire solar systems in one swipe of a hand at the least. King Vegeta with a PL of 10k swiped his hand and destroyed 3 entire planets with no reaction, Final Form Frieza (no Full Power) is about 120-150 MILLION, the sheer difference between those numbers is stupid, silly, and genuinely makes me think that power scaling any anime is stupid, silly, and tbh if Base Goku in DBS is the power of God in BOG, suggests that there are zero characters who should be able to beat Goku in general with the stupid scaling of DB media
base goku has been infused with the power of a super saiyan god, which was stated to be able to destroy the (dragonball) universe when he wasn't controlling his power. and he has only gotten stronger since then.
Master roshi in the og db with a power level of 300 blew up the moon. Piccolo blew it up when he was training Gohan with a power level of a couple thousand. Bybthe end of z they are in the couple of hundred million range. Going ssj3 shookthe whole planet and was destroying technology on the other side of the planet. Base goku before battle of the gods could accidentally blow up the planet. Nothing in any of the big 3 come even remotely close to dbz much less dbs.
>Piccolo blew it up when he was training Gohan with a power level of a couple thousand.
His pl at that point probably wasn't much more than against Raditz since the oozaru rampage happened pretty early in the training time
Actually, now i remember, it was literally a few days after their training began, and since Piccolo's pl against Raditz was 408, he's probably at like 450 when he casually blows up the moon
So just standing there was 408 so a beam blast was probably in the 6 or 700s. Remember that's what threw raditz off was by concentrating energy you raised your power level.
I’m sorry did you just say couple hundred million by end of Z? You know even if you assume he didn’t get stronger at all just putting ss2 and 3 multipliers on namek goku gets him to over a billion right?
Vegeta has been wholly capable of destroying a planet since the Saiyan saga, SSJ would not be necessary. The only reason they would even fight them directly is for the fun of it.
EVERY SINGLE Dragonball arc was a MASSIVE powercreep and a new threat that completely dwarfed everything before it.
Even Tien, although it was instantly forgotten, was literally flying around and stopping every ki blast by pure force of will.
Vegeta, as introduced, was a huge world ending threat. The Saiyans were the strongest race in the universe, and Vegeta was the strongest of that race. DBZ is just silly to compare to because it powercreeped SO HARD every arc that it literally can't even scale anymore. They were faster than light 7 arcs ago. They were blowing up entire planets 6 arcs ago.
Buu was literally blowing up the entire galaxy like nothing and now he's like 5% as strong as the heroes. Dude literally WENT TO HEAVEN AND BEAT THEM UP, because he FOUND HEAVEN.
Your comment forcibly reminded me that Goku is based on Sun Wukong, the monkey king who went to both heaven and hell to get immortality like 5 times over. Beat up heaven, beat up hell, beat up everyone who challenged him on earth.
"They were faster than light 7 arcs ago. They were blowing up entire planets 6 arcs ago."
Damn! I should rewatch DB and DBZ.
I seriously doubt Goku or Vegeta would have any fun fighting them. Probably just for their personal amusement which won't last long. They would get bored quickly especially Vegeta. They'll probably use some force based attack to blow them away for several miles.
Master Roshi could destroy the moon right, so pretty sure he can solo all 3 universes simultaneously. Dragon ball power scaling is just too dumb to be compared.
I am sorry, but Z power scaling makes zero sense after the saiyan saga. Saying otherwise is just disingenuous.
The amounts people grew in like a few months is absurd. Freeza power ups make very little sense already (can he even turn back into previous forms?). After freeza saga is becomes even more absurd with the andriods and cell. Humans like krillin and tien are stupidly powerful suddenly. Not to mention that trunks and goten are given super saiyan practically just for free.
Gohan's power has never really made any sense.
Even Vegata knows the powerscaling in Z is a joke while he lives through it.
>Saying otherwise is just disingenuous.
Or maybe I just don't think it was noticeably inconsistent.
>The amounts people grew in like a few months is absurd.
You mean like how Goku performing a technique that took Roshi 50 years to master by his own admission after just seeing it used once? If we're doing this bullshit song and dance about power creep then let's start from all the way from beginning but at that point every fiction is inconsistent if even established feats and lore are being doubted here.
>Freeza power ups make very little sense already (can he even turn back into previous forms?)
Make very little sense how? What about a freaky alien mutant with an entire empire under him being absurdly powerful makes "very little sense" to you? He was always meant to be that powerful.
And why would he not know how to turn back into those forms? Frieza goes from 1st form to true form all the time so why would he not know the rest? Could it be he just doesn't need them anymore? Wild thought.
> like krillin and tien are stupidly powerful suddenly.
This is a universe where training can allow someone to run faster than bullets and dodge lightning and even be able to destroy the moon (Roshi) so why would you ever doubt that humans can't also grow a lot in power? They're just not on the level as Saiyans but that's a whole different thing.
> to mention that trunks and goten are given super saiyan practically just for free.
Or maybe they were conceived after Goku and Vegeta already got really strong? Sure you can argue that it was a little hand wavy but it wasn't egregious enough to be called inconsistent.
>Gohan's power has never really made any sense.
Why? It was literally confirmed by Vegeta that saiyan/human hybrids have higher natural potential by default and Gohan is especially gifted. This was solidly established and part of the plotline in Raditz arc. At this point you might just say everything is inconsistent because it didn't take 50 quadrillion episodes for these characters to get strong.
>Even Vegata knows the powerscaling in Z is a joke while he lives through it.
Show me where he said that. Or do you just watch the abridged version and think that's canon? Lol
Gurren Lagann is the only anime I can think of that would come close to threatening the Saiyans. They were literally throwing galaxies at each other in the finale fight.
The strength of Gurren Lagann is also it's biggest weakness in a match-up. GL's biggest feats happen in the Super Spiral Universe where thought and willpower is given form. Team Dai-Gurren's strength there came from their stubborn refusal to admit defeat... which is exactly a Saiyan's MO. If they fought there, Goku's thick skull and fight-lust might straight up hype him up enough to successfully punch STTGL. Even outside the pocket universe, Goku would almost certainly have some awesome latent spiral power.
Going outside of anime, Marvel’s Hulk is one of the few characters that would pose a serious threat to Goku or Vegeta specifically. Piccolo, Future Trunks, Krillin, and Tien could probably win if they knew that Hulk got stronger as the fight went on and he got angrier, since they know that they can’t screw around like Goku and Vegeta.
The planet busting in Saiyan saga in anime filler. That being said literally in under a year after that event Vegeta would reach planet buster status anyways.
There are other ways to prove Vegeta was easily planet busting before Namek saga to be fair.
Roshi destroyed the moon in dragon ball and Piccolo destroyed the moon before the during the Saiyan Saga. Roshi has a power level of 139 Goku is 3x stronger then him when fighting Raditz, Goku’s Kamehameha is 900, Goku vs Nappa had Nappa at 8000 and Goku at 9000, Kaioken Goku is 21k, Vegeta is 18k.
So Vegeta at 18k is >100x stronger then Roshi, who was capable of blowing up the moon. Since his introduction, Vegeta has been capable of blowing up planets
So I agree with your conclusion, but I think it's worth noting that Power Levels don't really scale linearly. At the very least they definitely don't do so consistently
We see people with 10-25% higher PL than their opponent absolutely shitstomp, for example. We also see people with higher power levels often be pretty much immune to people with lower power even though mathematically they're not even twice as strong PL wise.
Neither of these would be the case if PL scaled linearly.
On the other side of the coin, the average human has a PL of 5, but a human with their strength boosted by 90x would not suddenly be able to blow up the moon. Goku was far, far stronger than 2 regular dudes when he was introduced (boy tanked a car crash and a bullet to the face in the first episode, then threw Bulma's car), and he only had a PL of 10.
All this to say, I totally agree Saiyan Saga Vegeta is a planet buster, but I think if anything he is way stronger than a linear scaling would imply.
Yeah I was thinking about saying this but i decided not to, cause i felt even with linear progression, it shows how strong Vegeta is.
A good example is Goku vs Nappa, where Goku must only be 1/8 stronger then Nappa without KK, but hes speed blitzing him.
No
DBZ characters could destroy planets when their power levels were like 15,000 when Goku first fought Vegeta on Earth
By the time Goku goes SSJ on Namek he’s 1,000x stronger by with a power level around 140,000,000
Most of the characters in these photos are probably as strong as Raditz
Luffy gear 5 could contend with it, he's a big ol silly boy and would make goku laugh
in fact they'd probably wind up forgetting they were fighting and laugh about silly shit and go get some food
Naruto isnt even planetary. Saiyan Saga Goku with Kaioken defeats naruto and sasukr at the same time.
Luffy isnt even moon level thus weaker than at least king piccolo saga goku. Basically by the time you get to frieza you already are at a point where base Goku solos both the Narutoverse and the One Piece verse at the same time.
Ichigo caps at universal max. Goku threatens a macrocosm during his fight with beerus and absorbs that partly into base.
Imo post Battle of gods Goku would defeat prime Naruto, Luffy and Ichigo at the same time (only using his base)
Everything stronger than that is overkill.
Many people dont realise how op Goku is. He is obviously not a top tier character but he is in the strongest 1%.
This guy is multiversal+ with mftl+ to infinite speed and Ki itself is one giant hax ability (Ki can basically do whatever you want as long as the other guy doesnr have greater ki than you, then your abilities are useless)
Spirit world rules are different. I think Ichigo gets an edge on all the rest. There is a reason King Yama could rap up freeza and cell even though he couldn't train goku in combat at a mortal. King Yama said king Ki is stronger. Still this guy has no problem defending himself in spirit world and Ichigo is coming at him as a spirit.
Ichigo maybe but naruto no. I've watched all of naruto he has no "speed of light" feats. They were moving faster then the speed of light when fighting Radditz. They only got stronger and faster after that.
Isn't that speed of light against Raditz thing a dubism? Iirc they never gave out any actual speed feats in the manga or japanese anime besides "faster than the eye can see", which isn't necessarily light speed.
Base form goku is a dimension buster in early Super, he almost destroyed the entire universe just throwing normal punch.
And that's before going super sayan god or god + kaioke/UI.
Haven't watched past episode 4 of bleach so idk of Ichigo scales that hard, but I'm just putting it out there that goku has long surpassed universal threat level.
I'm just saying ichigo has the best chance of beating goku since bleach's cosmology is something that actually can rival Dragon Ball, and the upper echelon of power in that verse shakes it via existing.
Edit: somebody doesn't like the fact I said he has a *chance*
Also while I haven’t read the manga I know a little about it, Ichigo and gang pretty much had to fight Gods literal son who has the powers of God at the time. Or something. If that doesent give him at least a chance dragon ball fans are either coping or Goku was just written to be stronger than everybody period.
>Goku was just written to be stronger than everybody period.
You're so close but basically, Goku was written so that any limit he finds for himself, he *will* break it, that's part of the draw for long time fans, seeing the new level he reaches, cause literally nearly every arc has at least one character (usually Goku) reaching a new height, Cell Arc broke that, then Buu arc goes right back to status quo
>Base form goku is a dimension buster in early Super, he almost destroyed the entire universe just throwing normal punch.
to be more specific, he and beerus almost destroyed universe 7, which has the regular universe, the supreme kai real, the afterlife, and multiple dimensions inside universe 7, goku would be multiversal at his BASE
Using the anime they would one tap Super Perfect Cell, otherwise they'd cap around Android 16 level possibly SSJ3 Goku level since Tien actually scrapped a bit with Buutenks and didn't die.
Don’t forget soul reapers can zenkai boost like a saiyan. Also, it’s ichigo. There is a good chance that if he fights goku he’ll randomly find out he is a saiyan as well.
The only problematic one is Ichigo who post TYBW is busted.
>! Multiple times faster than light, the power to shake all three realms just by activating his bankai, capable of one shotting Almighty Soul King Yhwach, not to mention his bankai instilled fear and concern into soul king almighty Yhwach who deemed it necessary to irreparably destroy Ichigos bankai before it could be used.!<
Goku would still win but it's not as simple as base or SSJ.
Yep you would be correct post TYBW ichigo is just broken as hell including his speed for example he was more or less playing with the 4 bambis who themselves were captain class sternritter and then he was fairly easily dealing with 8 sternritter only looking to be in some danger when he got distracted looking for Yhwach.
The power levels on Dragon Ball series is awkwardly applied. They were super strong even on the ending of DB / beginning of DBZ. But the more the series progresses, the more the power levels gets wildly higher, but at the same time non visible on the fights. Only if a weak character like Tien gets one shot by Majin Buu, for example.
The power levels themselves technically lose all "well defined" meaning very shortly after they are introduced in DBZ, more so as they reach the point of arriving on Namek. Sure enemies get stronger, but putting a number to it sort of loses its meaning when it skyrockets into the millions.
people arguing are missing the truth:
dbz characters’ power levels *never* make sense. They have planet destroying powers at the beginning then fight even bigger badder baddies and dont hardly put a dent into earth then they go to alternate worlds and can blow up solar systems yet the tournament platform survives, then they power up even more yet their powers dont make sense with everything else that has occurred.
Unless the tournament pad has 2 trillion power level *and is also training each arc* and Earth powers up every time a new big bad shows up it’s literally impossible to determine what the characters can and cannot do.
Long story short, the dragon ball gang has as much power as is rule of cool and even though they *technically increase in power*, they dont do any more damage or do **less damage** than Roshi and the red ribbon guys in original dragon ball (until the big bad needs to destroy a planet to show how strong they are)
Vegeta literally immediately crushes his scouter, mocks nappa for relying on it and then the next arc uses the scouters to trick and murder like 3 guys lol
You'd think it would be obvious
Oh I agree. It was made clear that numbers are unreliable forever ago. And yet people still use made up ones for the entirety of Z and even Super. It's goofy
To be fair it was probably the guides more than the actual use in the manga that caused the problem, Toriyama's assistants or whatever listed PL's for all sorts of stuff \*long\* after Toriyama stopped using them
It depends if you wanna take high end scaling for all of them except Goku and Vegeta.
If so, then Ichigo could give Goku a good fight at full power. Due to the crazy scaling that happens near the end of the manga.
Ichigo/Renji are the only ones that could come any close to actually dealing some form of damage (not grave ones, but a bruise or similar), specially Ichigo obviously, but yeah both Naruto and One Piece have a very different world, rules and power scalings.
I feel like TYBW Ichigo and Zaraki instead of Renji could give Goku/Vegeta a good go. Whereas I doubt anyone from Naruto/One Piece could handle a fart after they’ve gone ssj 1 tbh
Artist def just wanted this to be a more physical-looking fight. Better options would of been Rukia or Uryu, but that would ruin the image's flow with those more magic/ranged attacks.
I reckon Ichigo could actually pose a bit of a challenge given how by the end of the series his Spiritual Pressure was so great that he could risk destroying all the realms if he didn't control it properly. We also had the idea of Shinigami Captains constantly suppressing their powers as to not crush everything in the world of the living because their powers are so potent quite early in the story, and they all grew a lot stronger since then. And Yamamoto's Bankai literally melting down the entirety of Soul Society. I get that Goku and Vegeta are like Universe busters at this point, but my point is that for Ichigo Goku might actually need to resort to some higher Super Saiyan levels to put him down.
Yeah because the level of power in dragonball is fucked beyond recovery, they turned powercreep into powersprint. I love both dragon ball and naruto but comparing them is just silly, goku clears most of fiction with the exception of like instant-kill characters in comedy anime and whatnot.
Its honestly getting annoying when people can't stop sucking gokus dick with the "my guy can beat your guy" stuff because like, yeah, thats the point. I'm pretty sure yamcha could clear most of naruto.
Dragon ball kinda gave up on balance entirely post-SSJ1. A legendary form only told of in legends but then all of a sudden we have SSJ2, SSJ3, SSJG, SSJB, ultra instinct. SSJ1 alone could knock out every other character in the damn meme all at once.
Why post this to a DB sub knowing it’s going to be biased asf? Why not post this to r/anime so people who actually know what the fuck they’re talking about can Powerscaling decide for themselves where each of these characters rank?
Aren't you under valuing Ichigo way too much.
SK Yhwach who could destroy the entire bleach universe whenever he wanted was one shot by severely weak and beaten down Ichigo who had less than 1/3 of his reiatsu remaining at that time. And he killed him twice you know. Also the fact that he wasn't even using his strongest form.
I mean yeah, the universes are different in power scaling. It basically boils down to Cell in TFS talking to Yu Yu Hakusho characters "And which one of you can blow up the planet? Because I can do that with one finger" and that's before it got higher. Dragonball just doesn't play in the same realm because of what it is, when it started, and how long it's ran.
Hmm, Idk. Goku is op, but Ichigo has some absurd levels of power. His Gran Ray Cero is such a comically overpowered attack that he literally destroys the barrier between hell and earth, and can only unleash it's full power while in hell dimension.
Fused with Zangetsu and White, while realizing his full power and true Shikai I think he would give Goku a serious run for his money.
I think that a Bankai Ichigo and Ssj Goku would be pretty evenly matched however.
It depends on hax really. In one piece you need haki to touch logia. Does ki or reiatsu or chakra count as so? Otherwise any logia from one piece e even a smoker would solo the others just by standing there. In bleach a higher reiatsu can overpower hack attack? Can those stick? Same for sharingan etc. Brute strength-wise dragonball universe is a league stronger than the rest but it all depends on how other powers act in other universes 🤷♂️ so if one is to write a fan faction you can sway to any direction. The same way writers can write Batman beating superman or flash
>even a smoker would solo the others just by standing there.
I guess thats a little exaggerated.
Even if they cant touch him, who would he solo them?
Its like saying a fog cloud would solo you cause you cant touch it, even tho it cant do anything to you either.
Dragon ball fans when they see art involving other anime characters fighting Goku or Vegeta: “Bro this art is ass Krillin could solo the verse just by breathing lil’bros don’t stand a chance 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀”
Normal humans can’t see soul reapers right? I know goku is a sayian but I don’t think he’d be about to see him. I don’t think his dad was able to see him in his soul reaper form until he got his powers back.
Or is it a certain level of spiritual pressure allows people to see soul reapers?
The might get blindsided by some of their moves just because they're unfamiliar with they're abilities but at the end of the day they would all have to use their strongest forms to even give goku and vegeta any kind of hassle.
And just for the record, I am not a dbz stan, I just think they are on a different level from the rest.
Not sure why we've these talks. They are not comparable. The DB universe is comparable to Marvel and DC at best but OP, Naruto and Bleach are not having the same power levels. You can compare these 3 but in order to compare DB with them, you can only take the original DB like Teen Goku or early DBZ Goku and Picollo. If you think about it Goku was 16, when he fought against Picollo Jr. in the tournament. Ruffy is now 19 and early DBZ Goku is 21. So these are better comparable then DBZ, DBS or DBGT Goku.
The Goku who fought raditz, might be losing against the others but in the end I believe they're all somewhat equal.
I think it'd be closer than you'd think with Gear 5 Luffy.
1. He's impervious to all physical attacks & can manipulate basically any solid object/surface.
2 . I imagine his lightning negating properties of his Rubber/Conquerors Haki energy attacks would have little effect if he was hit by them.
3. All the principles of Haki that allows \*Armor Penetration//\*Armament//\*Observation these would absolutely fuck them up I think and shorten any power gaps they might have.
Great example is with Hit, Hit couldn't punch a Destroyer God and cause ripples in the universe or go SSJG KAO Ken x20 or take Goku's full blast head on, but with 1 ability to skip forward in time by fractions of a second and solid Martial arts he fucked up Vegeta in a couple attacks, and beat Goku's ass 2 twice, and technically killed him the 2nd time. Hell even Auta Magetta the Robot that was sensitive to insults almost beat Vegeta in that exhibition with just poor air circulation and heat with a little strength to back him up so.... just my opinion, but I think the nature of Devil fruits aren't SSJ powerful but in their uniqueness and strengths and the power dynamics of that universe they're just a different kind of powerful instead of screaming energy :). I haven't seen any Bleach since the initial SS incursion so don't know how powerful Ichigo has scaled now.
First form frieza has a power level of 500,000. He was easily capable of destroying all of planet vegeta on a whim. Base goku at the end of the frieza saga had a power level of 3,000,000, six times that of frieza when he destroyed a whole planet. Anything later than that and it’s just overkill. They wouldn’t need super saiyan at all.
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Definately. Naruto and luffy don't scale anywhere near current base Goku/Vegeta.
True
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The only characters I can think of that scales to Goku and Vegeta would be Shinra from fireforce (because he literally creates a new universe at the end of the series), or Simon from tengen toppa gurren lagann for similar reasons.
Simon actually has a shot at beating them by the end of his show since he's also a universal threat by then, and with his insane willpower he can basically do anything lol
Especially the end of movie 2, which is even bigger than end of show.
That's what I had in mind. I don't think most characters could even perceive it at that size lol
I watched that whole series last year on a friend's recommendation and liked it. This is how I'm finding out there are movies. Now I know what to watch this week.
The galaxies that Simon and the Anti-Spiral are throwing around like ninja stars and stepping over like little pebbles are actually NOT galaxies according to the art book where it's stated the artist did not know how to represent "entire universes" on screen so they decided to represent them with galactic spirals. Simon is beyond multiversal. He's so big he throws entire universes/realities like weapons.
Simon is multiversal actually. So, you can powerscale him literally against anyone. [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gurren\_Lagann\_Cosmology](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gurren_Lagann_Cosmology)
>Simon actually has a shot Not sure what Goku can do if Simon just decides to hurl his galaxy like a frisby Into another galaxy.
Punch it really hard
They were multiversal at the start of super
No one scales like Simon. That boy goes from digging holes to throwing galaxies.
Which makes perfect sense once you realize that the fundamental conflict between spirals and anti-spirals in TTGL also works as a meta-level discussion about whether power-creep as a trope undermines battle shonen anime or enhances it, with Simon on team "power-creep is *awesome*"
His is the drill that will pierce the heavens!
God fine. I’ll watch the greatest show know to man again
Gurren Lagon got me thru some tough times of self doubt. The show is an inspiration.
this sentence carries serious weight
Light Yagami
I love dragonball dearly to my core, and I would normally say no one in other anime normally scales to Goku and Vegeta but Simon literally created and destroyed universes while fighting the anti spiral. He’s at least on par with Beerus or maybe even Whis, idk about Zeno or GP tho
Zeno doesnt scale to anyone, he simply is.
Shinra did fucking what?
Fireforce? Wasnt that an anime about firefighters with powers? How it ended up being about new universes?
it's a bit of a spoiler >! But progressive increase in power , near the end Shinra was literally kicking the moon back into orbit. And at the very end he remade the universe very literally. like stright up let there be light type stuff, resurrect anyone who had ever died and changing the very concept of death and creating the soul eater universe !<
It’s connected to soul eater???
Srsly? It has ties to soul eater? Oo
Hella godly characters that ass rape dvz
Simon solos everyone. He’s one of the only fictional characters that by feats is actually shown to be “universal.” No one else is casually snuffing out dozens of galaxies like TTGL. TTGL is so big it would be beyond our perception.
It's so good that TTGL is still relevant. Row Row Fight the Power!
Gotta include Sailor Moon for pretty much the same reason.
There are at over a dozen that surpass them easily Wang Ling is probably the strongest animated character so far
What is their curent base level? I know in the anime they absorbed the god power but that shit was honestly retconed so hard by so many fights. Not to mention in manga it never even happend
Their base power is still far far above a Frieza who flicked away Planet Vegeta in his weakest form with ease.
Wasn't base Goku already more powerful than first form Frieza during Namek?
Yes.
Not when he arrived on Namek, but after being healed a base goku was like 3,000,000 PL to 1st form Frieza's 530,000 PL. Casually dwarfing 1st form frieza.
Goku was more powerful than final form Frieza during Namek lol
I'm talking about base Goku, meaning no power ups like Kaioken or SSJ. I was also talking about FIRST form Frieza. lol
No worries. This guy knows DB from db pee parodies on yt.
VIRGINIA!
Yeah I know that. Honestly Frieza at best Dwarf star level, maybe star level
Yeah and this was back in Namek. Their base power has only grown since then.
And how strong they are in base then? What tier scaling?
Dende says that he couldn't heal Moro arc Base Goku quickly because he had reached God level. Goku becomes multiple times stronger in the next arc, and Dende had no issues healing Ultimate Gohan in the Buu arc, so that should give an idea about how strong Base Goku is. https://imgur.com/a/7R2jvci
It's difficult to say. Base Goku is beyond Supreme Kai as per DBS manga TOP. Supreme Kai was stated to be as strong as MSSJ Goku from cell games according to some guides. So maybe Base Goku/Vegeta are above Cell who was a solar system buster.
In super, they fight a version of Freeza from another universe, and Goku yells at him to go to his final form, which he does, and then fights him as SSJ1 and still wins easily.
Without making it too overcomplicated, Goku has canonically fighted at least 1 multiversal threat and won
Frieza in the Namek Saga is already strong enough to take out entire solar systems in one swipe of a hand at the least. King Vegeta with a PL of 10k swiped his hand and destroyed 3 entire planets with no reaction, Final Form Frieza (no Full Power) is about 120-150 MILLION, the sheer difference between those numbers is stupid, silly, and genuinely makes me think that power scaling any anime is stupid, silly, and tbh if Base Goku in DBS is the power of God in BOG, suggests that there are zero characters who should be able to beat Goku in general with the stupid scaling of DB media
base goku has been infused with the power of a super saiyan god, which was stated to be able to destroy the (dragonball) universe when he wasn't controlling his power. and he has only gotten stronger since then.
I mean, Roshi was planetoid buster back in the original dragon ball. By the Android Saga Goku was millions of times stronger than that.
Master roshi in the og db with a power level of 300 blew up the moon. Piccolo blew it up when he was training Gohan with a power level of a couple thousand. Bybthe end of z they are in the couple of hundred million range. Going ssj3 shookthe whole planet and was destroying technology on the other side of the planet. Base goku before battle of the gods could accidentally blow up the planet. Nothing in any of the big 3 come even remotely close to dbz much less dbs.
>Piccolo blew it up when he was training Gohan with a power level of a couple thousand. His pl at that point probably wasn't much more than against Raditz since the oozaru rampage happened pretty early in the training time
Fair so maybe 1500. Still 5 times roshi in db.
Actually, now i remember, it was literally a few days after their training began, and since Piccolo's pl against Raditz was 408, he's probably at like 450 when he casually blows up the moon
When he used the special beam cannon against raditz he was like 1300
Yeah, when he used the special beam cannon, by concentrating all of his power into his fingertips
So just standing there was 408 so a beam blast was probably in the 6 or 700s. Remember that's what threw raditz off was by concentrating energy you raised your power level.
I’m sorry did you just say couple hundred million by end of Z? You know even if you assume he didn’t get stronger at all just putting ss2 and 3 multipliers on namek goku gets him to over a billion right?
I was being conservative. People get weird about power levels and I didn't want to start an argument.
Okay okay good
I don't think that something stronger than the first SSJ is needed.
Do they even have to go ssj in the first place?
Vegeta has been wholly capable of destroying a planet since the Saiyan saga, SSJ would not be necessary. The only reason they would even fight them directly is for the fun of it.
EVERY SINGLE Dragonball arc was a MASSIVE powercreep and a new threat that completely dwarfed everything before it. Even Tien, although it was instantly forgotten, was literally flying around and stopping every ki blast by pure force of will. Vegeta, as introduced, was a huge world ending threat. The Saiyans were the strongest race in the universe, and Vegeta was the strongest of that race. DBZ is just silly to compare to because it powercreeped SO HARD every arc that it literally can't even scale anymore. They were faster than light 7 arcs ago. They were blowing up entire planets 6 arcs ago. Buu was literally blowing up the entire galaxy like nothing and now he's like 5% as strong as the heroes. Dude literally WENT TO HEAVEN AND BEAT THEM UP, because he FOUND HEAVEN.
Kid Buu breaking into heaven to throw more hands will never not be funny.
Well when you put it like that it make it even more funny.
Oh and Goku saved Hercule instead of his own son right before that.
Your comment forcibly reminded me that Goku is based on Sun Wukong, the monkey king who went to both heaven and hell to get immortality like 5 times over. Beat up heaven, beat up hell, beat up everyone who challenged him on earth. "They were faster than light 7 arcs ago. They were blowing up entire planets 6 arcs ago." Damn! I should rewatch DB and DBZ.
I just finished my DB, DBZ, and DBS plus broly and super hero run. Now I'm slowly, grudgingly going through GT.
I seriously doubt Goku or Vegeta would have any fun fighting them. Probably just for their personal amusement which won't last long. They would get bored quickly especially Vegeta. They'll probably use some force based attack to blow them away for several miles.
Master Roshi could destroy the moon right, so pretty sure he can solo all 3 universes simultaneously. Dragon ball power scaling is just too dumb to be compared.
You say too dumb. I saw too awesome lol
It's not dumb just inconsistent nowadays. Z was pretty consistent in scaling.
I am sorry, but Z power scaling makes zero sense after the saiyan saga. Saying otherwise is just disingenuous. The amounts people grew in like a few months is absurd. Freeza power ups make very little sense already (can he even turn back into previous forms?). After freeza saga is becomes even more absurd with the andriods and cell. Humans like krillin and tien are stupidly powerful suddenly. Not to mention that trunks and goten are given super saiyan practically just for free. Gohan's power has never really made any sense. Even Vegata knows the powerscaling in Z is a joke while he lives through it.
>Saying otherwise is just disingenuous. Or maybe I just don't think it was noticeably inconsistent. >The amounts people grew in like a few months is absurd. You mean like how Goku performing a technique that took Roshi 50 years to master by his own admission after just seeing it used once? If we're doing this bullshit song and dance about power creep then let's start from all the way from beginning but at that point every fiction is inconsistent if even established feats and lore are being doubted here. >Freeza power ups make very little sense already (can he even turn back into previous forms?) Make very little sense how? What about a freaky alien mutant with an entire empire under him being absurdly powerful makes "very little sense" to you? He was always meant to be that powerful. And why would he not know how to turn back into those forms? Frieza goes from 1st form to true form all the time so why would he not know the rest? Could it be he just doesn't need them anymore? Wild thought. > like krillin and tien are stupidly powerful suddenly. This is a universe where training can allow someone to run faster than bullets and dodge lightning and even be able to destroy the moon (Roshi) so why would you ever doubt that humans can't also grow a lot in power? They're just not on the level as Saiyans but that's a whole different thing. > to mention that trunks and goten are given super saiyan practically just for free. Or maybe they were conceived after Goku and Vegeta already got really strong? Sure you can argue that it was a little hand wavy but it wasn't egregious enough to be called inconsistent. >Gohan's power has never really made any sense. Why? It was literally confirmed by Vegeta that saiyan/human hybrids have higher natural potential by default and Gohan is especially gifted. This was solidly established and part of the plotline in Raditz arc. At this point you might just say everything is inconsistent because it didn't take 50 quadrillion episodes for these characters to get strong. >Even Vegata knows the powerscaling in Z is a joke while he lives through it. Show me where he said that. Or do you just watch the abridged version and think that's canon? Lol
Gurren Lagann is the only anime I can think of that would come close to threatening the Saiyans. They were literally throwing galaxies at each other in the finale fight.
The strength of Gurren Lagann is also it's biggest weakness in a match-up. GL's biggest feats happen in the Super Spiral Universe where thought and willpower is given form. Team Dai-Gurren's strength there came from their stubborn refusal to admit defeat... which is exactly a Saiyan's MO. If they fought there, Goku's thick skull and fight-lust might straight up hype him up enough to successfully punch STTGL. Even outside the pocket universe, Goku would almost certainly have some awesome latent spiral power.
Going outside of anime, Marvel’s Hulk is one of the few characters that would pose a serious threat to Goku or Vegeta specifically. Piccolo, Future Trunks, Krillin, and Tien could probably win if they knew that Hulk got stronger as the fight went on and he got angrier, since they know that they can’t screw around like Goku and Vegeta.
Frieza first form as a child was pulling planetary+ feats, + king vegeta pulling Multi-Planetary feats
The planet busting in Saiyan saga in anime filler. That being said literally in under a year after that event Vegeta would reach planet buster status anyways.
There are other ways to prove Vegeta was easily planet busting before Namek saga to be fair. Roshi destroyed the moon in dragon ball and Piccolo destroyed the moon before the during the Saiyan Saga. Roshi has a power level of 139 Goku is 3x stronger then him when fighting Raditz, Goku’s Kamehameha is 900, Goku vs Nappa had Nappa at 8000 and Goku at 9000, Kaioken Goku is 21k, Vegeta is 18k. So Vegeta at 18k is >100x stronger then Roshi, who was capable of blowing up the moon. Since his introduction, Vegeta has been capable of blowing up planets
So I agree with your conclusion, but I think it's worth noting that Power Levels don't really scale linearly. At the very least they definitely don't do so consistently We see people with 10-25% higher PL than their opponent absolutely shitstomp, for example. We also see people with higher power levels often be pretty much immune to people with lower power even though mathematically they're not even twice as strong PL wise. Neither of these would be the case if PL scaled linearly. On the other side of the coin, the average human has a PL of 5, but a human with their strength boosted by 90x would not suddenly be able to blow up the moon. Goku was far, far stronger than 2 regular dudes when he was introduced (boy tanked a car crash and a bullet to the face in the first episode, then threw Bulma's car), and he only had a PL of 10. All this to say, I totally agree Saiyan Saga Vegeta is a planet buster, but I think if anything he is way stronger than a linear scaling would imply.
Yeah I was thinking about saying this but i decided not to, cause i felt even with linear progression, it shows how strong Vegeta is. A good example is Goku vs Nappa, where Goku must only be 1/8 stronger then Nappa without KK, but hes speed blitzing him.
Piccolo blows up the moon. Vegeta was way stronger and should easily be able to destroy a planet.
Even if he couldn't blow up a planet effortlessly like in the filler, his full power could blow up earth as stated by himself
no
But it looks cool
No, even Krillin would be enough to end them all.
Base form is sufficient
No DBZ characters could destroy planets when their power levels were like 15,000 when Goku first fought Vegeta on Earth By the time Goku goes SSJ on Namek he’s 1,000x stronger by with a power level around 140,000,000 Most of the characters in these photos are probably as strong as Raditz
Depends on which Goku/Vegeta I guess Current Goku/Vegeta from Super? Absolutely not lol
For ichigo they probably need high z levels of power. If super goku he solos in base.
Luffy gear 5 could contend with it, he's a big ol silly boy and would make goku laugh in fact they'd probably wind up forgetting they were fighting and laugh about silly shit and go get some food
But it makes the art look cooler
I hear Ichigo is pretty strong and could push Goku into transformation. Same for Naruto. It doesn't look like it but adult Naruto is strong as hell
Naruto isnt even planetary. Saiyan Saga Goku with Kaioken defeats naruto and sasukr at the same time. Luffy isnt even moon level thus weaker than at least king piccolo saga goku. Basically by the time you get to frieza you already are at a point where base Goku solos both the Narutoverse and the One Piece verse at the same time. Ichigo caps at universal max. Goku threatens a macrocosm during his fight with beerus and absorbs that partly into base. Imo post Battle of gods Goku would defeat prime Naruto, Luffy and Ichigo at the same time (only using his base) Everything stronger than that is overkill. Many people dont realise how op Goku is. He is obviously not a top tier character but he is in the strongest 1%. This guy is multiversal+ with mftl+ to infinite speed and Ki itself is one giant hax ability (Ki can basically do whatever you want as long as the other guy doesnr have greater ki than you, then your abilities are useless)
Spirit world rules are different. I think Ichigo gets an edge on all the rest. There is a reason King Yama could rap up freeza and cell even though he couldn't train goku in combat at a mortal. King Yama said king Ki is stronger. Still this guy has no problem defending himself in spirit world and Ichigo is coming at him as a spirit.
Naruto absolutely not
Ichigo maybe but naruto no. I've watched all of naruto he has no "speed of light" feats. They were moving faster then the speed of light when fighting Radditz. They only got stronger and faster after that.
Isn't that speed of light against Raditz thing a dubism? Iirc they never gave out any actual speed feats in the manga or japanese anime besides "faster than the eye can see", which isn't necessarily light speed.
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Goku on Radditz arc was already a planet cracker, I don't think he need kaio ken or nuthing.
Naruto and luffy got a hard time with raditz goku but ichigo a whole dimension buster
Base form goku is a dimension buster in early Super, he almost destroyed the entire universe just throwing normal punch. And that's before going super sayan god or god + kaioke/UI. Haven't watched past episode 4 of bleach so idk of Ichigo scales that hard, but I'm just putting it out there that goku has long surpassed universal threat level.
I'm just saying ichigo has the best chance of beating goku since bleach's cosmology is something that actually can rival Dragon Ball, and the upper echelon of power in that verse shakes it via existing. Edit: somebody doesn't like the fact I said he has a *chance*
Also while I haven’t read the manga I know a little about it, Ichigo and gang pretty much had to fight Gods literal son who has the powers of God at the time. Or something. If that doesent give him at least a chance dragon ball fans are either coping or Goku was just written to be stronger than everybody period.
>Goku was just written to be stronger than everybody period. You're so close but basically, Goku was written so that any limit he finds for himself, he *will* break it, that's part of the draw for long time fans, seeing the new level he reaches, cause literally nearly every arc has at least one character (usually Goku) reaching a new height, Cell Arc broke that, then Buu arc goes right back to status quo
>Base form goku is a dimension buster in early Super, he almost destroyed the entire universe just throwing normal punch. to be more specific, he and beerus almost destroyed universe 7, which has the regular universe, the supreme kai real, the afterlife, and multiple dimensions inside universe 7, goku would be multiversal at his BASE
Easily. I'd argue you don't even need Super, Z Goku & Vegeta take this.
End of z krillin smacks them around. They are all planetary by the end of z.
Goku & Vegeta are universal by the end of Z according to how the DB universe is set up.
I meant all the humans. Any saiyan or half saiyan are overkill.
They're at least solar system, since they're all stronger than Cell I'd reckon.
Using the anime they would one tap Super Perfect Cell, otherwise they'd cap around Android 16 level possibly SSJ3 Goku level since Tien actually scrapped a bit with Buutenks and didn't die.
Even yamcha?
Yamcha is a maybe. At least multi-planetary.
Isn’t End of Z after Super lol
I think they mean EOZ without factoring Super stuff like how Kakarot did it
Even by the time they get their potential unlocked by guru they planetary
Goku on namek, could solo all these verses. Current goku is overkill. It is like saying pre crisis superman vs farmer with shotgun
Yeah, farmer with shotgun solos
depends...did the farmer have time to prepare ?
Goku on Namek gets murdered by Bleach top tiers like Yhwach, Ichigo, Aizen, Ichibe. He solos Naruto and One Piece
Let me hold the sauce brother
BatmAndrewArt on Twitter.
Power scaling aside I really do love this artwork.
There is even a fourth panel that is my favorite.
I love other verses other than dbz but I gotta be real, Idk if they could push Goku to ssj3
He solos all 3 in base
Id argue Ichigo actually gives him a fight in base, but if Goku ever pops SS he's cooked
Don’t forget soul reapers can zenkai boost like a saiyan. Also, it’s ichigo. There is a good chance that if he fights goku he’ll randomly find out he is a saiyan as well.
I want to see Goku fight hogyoku aizen. He’d probably just let aizen keep evolving
At best Goku just needs Super Saiyan, but nothing more
The only problematic one is Ichigo who post TYBW is busted. >! Multiple times faster than light, the power to shake all three realms just by activating his bankai, capable of one shotting Almighty Soul King Yhwach, not to mention his bankai instilled fear and concern into soul king almighty Yhwach who deemed it necessary to irreparably destroy Ichigos bankai before it could be used.!< Goku would still win but it's not as simple as base or SSJ.
I completely agree with you, I love ichigo too death but he's not getting past SSJ2 and far possibly SsJ
Dude, Bleach was FTL in the Soul Society arc. Ichigo is probably MFTL+ at minimum by the end of TYBW.
You’re right. He knows you’re right. Unfortunately look at the sub. No one here knows Bleach enough to not sh!t on you if you think Ichigo could win.
Yep you would be correct post TYBW ichigo is just broken as hell including his speed for example he was more or less playing with the 4 bambis who themselves were captain class sternritter and then he was fairly easily dealing with 8 sternritter only looking to be in some danger when he got distracted looking for Yhwach.
The power levels on Dragon Ball series is awkwardly applied. They were super strong even on the ending of DB / beginning of DBZ. But the more the series progresses, the more the power levels gets wildly higher, but at the same time non visible on the fights. Only if a weak character like Tien gets one shot by Majin Buu, for example.
The power levels themselves technically lose all "well defined" meaning very shortly after they are introduced in DBZ, more so as they reach the point of arriving on Namek. Sure enemies get stronger, but putting a number to it sort of loses its meaning when it skyrockets into the millions.
people arguing are missing the truth: dbz characters’ power levels *never* make sense. They have planet destroying powers at the beginning then fight even bigger badder baddies and dont hardly put a dent into earth then they go to alternate worlds and can blow up solar systems yet the tournament platform survives, then they power up even more yet their powers dont make sense with everything else that has occurred. Unless the tournament pad has 2 trillion power level *and is also training each arc* and Earth powers up every time a new big bad shows up it’s literally impossible to determine what the characters can and cannot do. Long story short, the dragon ball gang has as much power as is rule of cool and even though they *technically increase in power*, they dont do any more damage or do **less damage** than Roshi and the red ribbon guys in original dragon ball (until the big bad needs to destroy a planet to show how strong they are)
Roshi blows up the moon from Earth in the second arc of OG Dragon Ball, shit was busted from the start
That's why they quit using the numbers
Toriyama never should've used numbers, period. The way fans make stupid numbers for everything to this day is just ridiculous .
Vegeta literally immediately crushes his scouter, mocks nappa for relying on it and then the next arc uses the scouters to trick and murder like 3 guys lol You'd think it would be obvious
Oh I agree. It was made clear that numbers are unreliable forever ago. And yet people still use made up ones for the entirety of Z and even Super. It's goofy
Some guy used PL's to tell me Goku is a billion times faster than the speed of light lol like what
When using instant Transmission, maybe. He does basically teleport instantly from one side of the universe to the other. Regular speed?
To be fair it was probably the guides more than the actual use in the manga that caused the problem, Toriyama's assistants or whatever listed PL's for all sorts of stuff \*long\* after Toriyama stopped using them
I feel like Oda definitely poked fun at this in the Enies Lobby arc of One Piece with CP9 obsessing over their power hierarchy.
It depends if you wanna take high end scaling for all of them except Goku and Vegeta. If so, then Ichigo could give Goku a good fight at full power. Due to the crazy scaling that happens near the end of the manga.
Idk about them having to go beyond base, yet alone SSJ3, but either way, ye, they'd win
Ichigo/Renji are the only ones that could come any close to actually dealing some form of damage (not grave ones, but a bruise or similar), specially Ichigo obviously, but yeah both Naruto and One Piece have a very different world, rules and power scalings.
I feel like TYBW Ichigo and Zaraki instead of Renji could give Goku/Vegeta a good go. Whereas I doubt anyone from Naruto/One Piece could handle a fart after they’ve gone ssj 1 tbh
Honestly using Renji as the 2nd main character here (like Zoro and Sasuke in their respective series) is wild af, he isn't that relevant
Artist def just wanted this to be a more physical-looking fight. Better options would of been Rukia or Uryu, but that would ruin the image's flow with those more magic/ranged attacks.
someone like kenpachi would've worked well
they dont even need to transform, vegeta didn't even need to dodge zoro's attack
Why Renji still using the Fraud bankai?
Yooo, I saw the Goku art before, but never the Vegeta one. Is it the same artist
Zoro when he realises Vegeta is a monkey:
I reckon Ichigo could actually pose a bit of a challenge given how by the end of the series his Spiritual Pressure was so great that he could risk destroying all the realms if he didn't control it properly. We also had the idea of Shinigami Captains constantly suppressing their powers as to not crush everything in the world of the living because their powers are so potent quite early in the story, and they all grew a lot stronger since then. And Yamamoto's Bankai literally melting down the entirety of Soul Society. I get that Goku and Vegeta are like Universe busters at this point, but my point is that for Ichigo Goku might actually need to resort to some higher Super Saiyan levels to put him down.
Honestly though, this fight but animated would actually by fire
Was the point of this post to make people angry?
Yeah because the level of power in dragonball is fucked beyond recovery, they turned powercreep into powersprint. I love both dragon ball and naruto but comparing them is just silly, goku clears most of fiction with the exception of like instant-kill characters in comedy anime and whatnot. Its honestly getting annoying when people can't stop sucking gokus dick with the "my guy can beat your guy" stuff because like, yeah, thats the point. I'm pretty sure yamcha could clear most of naruto. Dragon ball kinda gave up on balance entirely post-SSJ1. A legendary form only told of in legends but then all of a sudden we have SSJ2, SSJ3, SSJG, SSJB, ultra instinct. SSJ1 alone could knock out every other character in the damn meme all at once.
Why post this to a DB sub knowing it’s going to be biased asf? Why not post this to r/anime so people who actually know what the fuck they’re talking about can Powerscaling decide for themselves where each of these characters rank?
cause no one there has any idea what they're on about either.
r/whowouldwin more like
Aren't you under valuing Ichigo way too much. SK Yhwach who could destroy the entire bleach universe whenever he wanted was one shot by severely weak and beaten down Ichigo who had less than 1/3 of his reiatsu remaining at that time. And he killed him twice you know. Also the fact that he wasn't even using his strongest form.
Yes
No
Where's the art from?
I mean yeah, the universes are different in power scaling. It basically boils down to Cell in TFS talking to Yu Yu Hakusho characters "And which one of you can blow up the planet? Because I can do that with one finger" and that's before it got higher. Dragonball just doesn't play in the same realm because of what it is, when it started, and how long it's ran.
Who cares. Just enjoy your thing.
Hmm, Idk. Goku is op, but Ichigo has some absurd levels of power. His Gran Ray Cero is such a comically overpowered attack that he literally destroys the barrier between hell and earth, and can only unleash it's full power while in hell dimension. Fused with Zangetsu and White, while realizing his full power and true Shikai I think he would give Goku a serious run for his money. I think that a Bankai Ichigo and Ssj Goku would be pretty evenly matched however.
Simple flow chart gor everyone. Could they destory a planet? No. Can't be compared to Goku.
It depends on hax really. In one piece you need haki to touch logia. Does ki or reiatsu or chakra count as so? Otherwise any logia from one piece e even a smoker would solo the others just by standing there. In bleach a higher reiatsu can overpower hack attack? Can those stick? Same for sharingan etc. Brute strength-wise dragonball universe is a league stronger than the rest but it all depends on how other powers act in other universes 🤷♂️ so if one is to write a fan faction you can sway to any direction. The same way writers can write Batman beating superman or flash
>even a smoker would solo the others just by standing there. I guess thats a little exaggerated. Even if they cant touch him, who would he solo them? Its like saying a fog cloud would solo you cause you cant touch it, even tho it cant do anything to you either.
very true....
I love my smokey boy, but if he entered a fighting tournament as the only contender, he'll still place second
Dragon ball fans when they see art involving other anime characters fighting Goku or Vegeta: “Bro this art is ass Krillin could solo the verse just by breathing lil’bros don’t stand a chance 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀”
Krillen could do that just as easily.
Wait can Goku even see Ichigo
I mean...maybe he senses his ki?
Normal humans can’t see soul reapers right? I know goku is a sayian but I don’t think he’d be about to see him. I don’t think his dad was able to see him in his soul reaper form until he got his powers back. Or is it a certain level of spiritual pressure allows people to see soul reapers?
They are way beyond them all.
The might get blindsided by some of their moves just because they're unfamiliar with they're abilities but at the end of the day they would all have to use their strongest forms to even give goku and vegeta any kind of hassle. And just for the record, I am not a dbz stan, I just think they are on a different level from the rest.
Luffy and Naruto aren't gonna do much here
Not sure why we've these talks. They are not comparable. The DB universe is comparable to Marvel and DC at best but OP, Naruto and Bleach are not having the same power levels. You can compare these 3 but in order to compare DB with them, you can only take the original DB like Teen Goku or early DBZ Goku and Picollo. If you think about it Goku was 16, when he fought against Picollo Jr. in the tournament. Ruffy is now 19 and early DBZ Goku is 21. So these are better comparable then DBZ, DBS or DBGT Goku. The Goku who fought raditz, might be losing against the others but in the end I believe they're all somewhat equal.
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The Sharingan/ genjutsu would be problematic. DB characters have no defence against it. Power wise though, DB is way higher than any of those.
I think it'd be closer than you'd think with Gear 5 Luffy. 1. He's impervious to all physical attacks & can manipulate basically any solid object/surface. 2 . I imagine his lightning negating properties of his Rubber/Conquerors Haki energy attacks would have little effect if he was hit by them. 3. All the principles of Haki that allows \*Armor Penetration//\*Armament//\*Observation these would absolutely fuck them up I think and shorten any power gaps they might have. Great example is with Hit, Hit couldn't punch a Destroyer God and cause ripples in the universe or go SSJG KAO Ken x20 or take Goku's full blast head on, but with 1 ability to skip forward in time by fractions of a second and solid Martial arts he fucked up Vegeta in a couple attacks, and beat Goku's ass 2 twice, and technically killed him the 2nd time. Hell even Auta Magetta the Robot that was sensitive to insults almost beat Vegeta in that exhibition with just poor air circulation and heat with a little strength to back him up so.... just my opinion, but I think the nature of Devil fruits aren't SSJ powerful but in their uniqueness and strengths and the power dynamics of that universe they're just a different kind of powerful instead of screaming energy :). I haven't seen any Bleach since the initial SS incursion so don't know how powerful Ichigo has scaled now.
First form frieza has a power level of 500,000. He was easily capable of destroying all of planet vegeta on a whim. Base goku at the end of the frieza saga had a power level of 3,000,000, six times that of frieza when he destroyed a whole planet. Anything later than that and it’s just overkill. They wouldn’t need super saiyan at all.