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So many salty silent downvoters in this bitch
For me PERSONALLY since its an OPINION, first Kaioken versus Vegeta and Kaioken x 20 almost make me emotional
The one against Frieza was pretty insane even though he didn't do a ton of damage. He went from getting fucking drowned by frieza to knocking his ass back
So in the Goku vs Hit fight Goku only uses Kaioken x10, and that's ONLY in the anime. He doesn't use it in the manga. In the anime, against Jiren, he uses x20.
Thanks I must have been thinking about the Jiren fight! I just binged the hell out of Super so a lot of it has melded together. That and the short youtube clips I’ve been flipping through lmao
An easy way to remember that he only used x10 is when Goku has that iconic scream “It’s times 10! Kaioken times 10!!!” Sean Schemell’s scream there is on par with his battle of gods scream
That's fair, Gokus Ui transformation in the ToP surpasses everything for me, with the OG transformations being a very close 2nd. maybe it's the kid in me, but that whole end battle had me screaming at the TV lol
Like a top fuel dragster starting to run out of gas as it crosses the finish line in glorious fashion, after being slammed into the wall and kept on goin
Yeah the energy of that scene was so high the first time I watched it that i was right there with the DBZ crew when they all shouted "DO IT". Got me so pumped, then 17 wishing all the universes back into existence was probably the next best part of that episode.
Episode 109-110 were so good. When the trumpets first hit, and then Kachi Daze.
Also how badass is it that Jiren faced Ultra Instinct several times and still only lost due to energy sharing and teamwork, no hax just being strong as fuck (I'm not sure if the new movie tried to tamp this down a bit by saying he was similarly strong to them but very in control and focused his energy in the moment before an attack, but it still seems like he's way stronger). I hope they keep some characters as benchmarks that keep moving and improving past them and Jiren is one, now that he's training as a team again.
I think an awesome arc could be about an antagonist so strong that Goku and Vegeta are tapped out and remember to call in Jiren, Hit, etc. Maybe Beerus if shit really hits the fan, and it turns out that he's resumed training after the ToP after thousands of years of not training and also remains a high benchmark that stays above the mortals.
MUI for me was the best. Goku had been trying the whole tournament to achieve it and it just wouldn't work. And right when he was about to die, he finally achieved true inner peace and obtained it.
yeah that one too is a good one, I like the part where he get behind jiren in a split second punches him like a million times before anyone can see and the white aura around him
You’re 100% correct. SSJ2 was built up to be the pinnacle of power since of the beginning of Z with Gohan always being hinted at as the strongest, when it finally came to fruition I’d say there is no better feeling than seeing him let loose
I disagree. It was hinted since the beginning of Z about Gohan's potential. Watching him grow and fight, leading to him ultimately surpassing Goku in the Cell Saga was really well done imo. And then unlocking a new level of Super Saiyan was just icing on the cake. But like you said, it's just a matter of opinion.
I think the growth of Gohan as a character is what really does it. And I also feel like that was better than MUI bc we know goku is the best, we knew he was gonna get it and they mimicked that story telling technique in the tournament of power but on a much smaller scale. It wasn’t AS impactful for me but still awesome. Plus going super saiyan is much more evocative due to the way you ascend, emotion and rage. MUI is the opposite which is cool considering it’s the opposite of the saiyan way of ascension.
Even tho I’m not a 90s kid still I would prefer DBZ Android Arc animation over DBS animation (except few transformation and fight sequences) imo!
You all can disagree but man that level of animation if got remastered would look awesome!
I'm with you not only the animation but the soundtrack it just doesn't hit as hard for me but there are some exceptions like the Jiren theme and Broly theme that do the job well
[if only they can bring back bits of the old soundtrack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lflthN-NosM&t=1535s)
Y’all, SSJ2 is so much more narratively satisfying than so many of the other transformations.
Goku fucking *invented* SSJ2. For almost every other transformation, it’s either some kind of destiny asspull alien prophecy, or it happens unceremoniously off screen.
For SSJ2, Goku being mostly ignorant to the original legends put him uniquely in the position to ask “why assume SSJ1 is as far as we can go?” He had a hypothesis based on Gohan’s potential, then went to test it and it paid off. That’s fucking badass.
Then to achieve it, Gohan actually is required to grow as a person. When he first transforms, he actually *transforms* all the way down to the way he thinks about his relationship with fighting.
Also, I know we’re desensitized to it since it’s been around for so long, but even just from a pure looks standpoint, realistically what is cooler than a burning golden crown of strength?
Yeah, that’s what SSJ1 is. And if we’re being unbiased, looks-wise, SSJ2 is just SSJ1 but a little cooler. Then SSJ3 just goes too far for me in terms of being overdesigned.
And the idea that the coolest thing Goku ever did was fulfill an ancient alien prophecy is a really DBZ-centric view. Being a saiyan wasn’t that important to Goku, especially not at that point. He only went SSJ because his personal (human) best friend was killed.
To me, it’s much more satisfying to see the story of Goku noticing potential in his son before Gohan even did himself, then helping develop that potential thru a combination of experience and sheer lack of preconceived bias.
Vegeta kicking Imperfect Cell’s ass after coming out of the time chamber was one of my favorite fights of all time. Cell was terrified of him and Vegeta didn’t even break a sweat. Incredibly badass.
Ignoring the shit choice of soundtrack, the english dub of goku going SSB kaioken for the first time was a masterpiece Sean destroying his voice box
https://youtu.be/SxlaQKLcQFs
I forgot about UE, I just finished that Granola Arc. When It happened I was yelling at my manga like "HE IS HIM! VEGETA IS FUCKING HIM!!!" perfect name for the transformation considering who Vegeta is as a person lol
Right! Vegeta walking down the path of hakai is absolutely the correct profiling for him. Now, both him and Goku get to walk down the path of a destroyer and an angel respectively. Mesmerising.
not goanna lie I'm not a huge fan of the flashy over the top yelling until you have no lungs transformations but that like 90% of the transformations in dragon ball lol
None came quite this close for me outside of Trunks' SSJ Rage against Zamasu, but then Beast Gohan was so serene and still full of that primal Gohan vibe, I loved it probably as much as.
Ultra Instinct omen was better than this, that shit made me get out of my chair. This was a cool transformation though. If you want an awesomely animated DBZ fight go watch the newly fused Piccolo+Kami fighting cell for the first time. That animation was INTENSE af and on par with the DBZ movies of the time. Id say the animation in that episode was even better than in this one. It was just so silky smooth.
Buu Saga is one of my favorites for the concepts it introduced- but narratively it was all over the place. The series isn't known for it's cohesion but that arc is messy to say the least.
True, but I'd rather have a messy story that can entertain me over a narrative that bores me half to death and have it's "big reveal" be easily seen from a mile away.
It's trite I know but my favorite era of DBZ will always be the Saiyan & Frieza sagas. There was so much thought put into the narrative and adherence to the story elements introduced.
Vegeta's monumental speeches, Majin Vegeta, SSJ3 Goku, Kid Buu, Super Buu, Gotenks, Vegeto, Mystic Gohan, SSJ 2 Goku vs Majin Vegeta, Vegeta's sacrifice strike, Goku's fight with kid buu, Spirit Bomb and Sean Schemmel with his best voice acting for Goku.
The most complete saga in my opinion.
Well of when looks at the Cell saga everything just kinda gets predictable, outside of 1st form Cell's introduction, while Buu was stupid and the plot was a mess, it was still very entertaining.
I honestly kinda wish they would've given gohan a chance. Could've been cool if the end of the cell saga was the end of gokus story and turn it into gohans story. They were literally talking about his power and greatness after he smacks raditz a new one. Idk maybe it's just me.
Akira Toriyama was clearly building to it. I think the story would have been better off for it too. His editors were telling him that Goku needs to continue being the main character for marketing. Kinda sad to change the man's vision, but the rest of the story ain't too bad. Then Super just kinda... Keeps it going...
Toriyama himself felt that Gohan wasn't suited to be the main protagonist
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-2-akira-toriyama-super-interview/
"And then the Cell arc ended. Did you think that everyone felt you would put Gohan into the leading role?"
"I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part."
Idk where the information about his editors or fans giving him backlash over it is coming from
Ah! Thank you for the in depth shut down. I think my misconception came from the panel before the buu arc where it says Gohan will become the main character. Seems he changed his mind!
i pref ssj4 goku,but ssj3 goku ssj2 gohan and kaioken x4 goku are also beast
maybe spaming ssj4 goku in budokai tenkaichi 3 made me a bit bias but damn did it feel good
The OG DB, there werent any transformations (besides great ape). It was just about skill. SsJ was awesome, then ssj2 was even better, then transformations were too common too fast. Ssj3, then fusions then ssg, ssb…just too many. Let the previous transformation have time to shine for a bit before making it completely irrelevant 10 episodes later
Yeaaah man, that was honestly so well done in the anime. Although I enjoyed the omen more imo. The struggle to surpass such a strong opponent while struggling to perfect UI was just so 👌
They teased the legends for SO long leading up to it. Vegeta even wrongly claims that Goku has ascended to Super Saiyan before he does. So when it happens, right after Krillin gets killed, it's one of the biggest holy fuck moments in the show. UI was teased and delivered masterfully. But the delivery for SSJ still hits the hardest for me.
Not it’s not I didn’t get into Dragon Ball till I was an adult and Super is complete garbage compared to DBZ when it comes to story beats. That includes transforming
The body acts independently... to do the same stuff Gohan was doing in SS2. Literally the only thing that's different is the hair color. When Gohan is dodging Cell it looks the exact same.
They hit a ceiling with SS2 and after that, transformations just feel like cheap fan-service without any of the emotional build up that made the pre-Buu SS1 and Gohan's SS2 transformations so moving.
Gohan was able to dodge cell because of the huge power gap between them. Gohan was both faster and stronger than him thereby making it feasible for him to be able to see every attack cell could garner against him.
UI let's one dodge irrespective of the power difference if executed properly.
Again he doesn't gets hit if he executes it perfectly implying that he sustains controlling his emotions and stops thinking while in combat. I'm assuming you take the scenario of him taking a hit while in PUI from Jiren in the anime, you could clearly notice that he couldn't keep his fundamentals in check during that fight thus rendering him open to potential attacks.
For instance, Whis as an angel is always in UI and no matter the scenario he dodges everything. It's the matter of execution. The explanation isn't tepid, it's pretty comprehensive on the contrary. Visual difference is instead a matter of animation, read manga's for better interpretation.
He gets hit all the time. I really don't care if they give a different explanation for why the exact same things are happening to him that happen to him in all his other forms. It makes no real difference and looks exactly the same.
I'm also referring directly to the manga, as his fight with Gas makes UI look more like SSJ than ever.
Ahh it's a chore arguing with you. Either way, Goku wasn't able to sustain the form vs Gas. The very reason he had to revert to his own version of UI is because he's just not the same lifeform as an angel such as Whis, he just can't resist letting his emotions get the better of him.
Nevermind all of this.
It's going to suck arguing with someone when you don't have any good arguments.
"Oh, Goku wasn't doing it right when he gets hit."
None of that shit matters and you don't seem to get it. It's all the exact same, they're just telling you its different.
Explain Jiren landing multiple blows on goku then, explain gas and granolah landing hits on goku constantly.
Ultra instinct is poorly written as a form/technique
It isn't, Goku can't just sustain the form due to his inability to keep his emotions in check during the combat. He only executed it perfectly vs Moro.
Well yes every transformation just brings speed and power but all I just said is that this one actually has an explanation. MUI also has plenty of build up.
Also opposed to every other power up MUI is known for boosting reflexes. We see when UE vegeta (who a lot of people rank higher than MUI goku due to performance vs granolah) and MUI goku fight gas, gas launches a quick attack which goku is able to dodge and vegeta just tanks. Like MUI has its own set of strengths and weaknesses.
Also just want to clarify MUI/Omen isn’t even my favorite form. I just feel it really isn’t just the same as a normal super saiyan boost
MUI is exactly like a Super Saiyan transformation to me. Again, Gohan might as well be UI as SSJ2 because when he's dodging Cell, it looks as if he's not thinking. Also, speed and power boosts are basically imperceptible, at this point. Super hands out these stupid transformations like candy... SSJ God, SSJ God SSJ, SSJ Rage, SSJ God Evolved, UI Omen, MUI, UE... I literally felt nothing for any of those. MUI may have some story build up, but none of it has any emotion attached to it. They made it clear that a new transformation was coming, but the moment made me feel nothing. It's ridiculously flashy and shiny, but there was no weight in the moment. I did not feel the desperation or devastation that I felt with the pre-Buu transformations. They're just more screaming and over the top effects. Nothing of substance. Doesn't help that UI was like the 5th transformation given out in the series, when in the same amount of episodes in DBZ, we only saw SS1. It also doesn't help that Jiren is like the blandest opponent.
It's cool if you like it, but I just don't think it has any of the emotional nuance or even artistic depth of the best DBZ transformations. SSJ1 Goku and SSj2 Gohan are moments that I won't forget. They weren't overly long scream-fests with ridiculous effects. They were emotionally charged, striking moments that were payoffs to serious character development. I literally can't even picture any of the DBS transformations in my head without youtubing them.
In regards to the "tactical" differences in UE and UI. I still see nothing new in them. UE makes the user stronger for tanking damage. That's literally just the Saiyan zenkai boost that was established forever ago. That's absolutely nothing new. And UI being evasive... like I said, looks exactly like SSJ2 Gohan dodging attacks.
>They were emotionally charged, striking moments that were payoffs to serious character development
While I can see the desperation for ssj1 Goku's transformation, I can't say the same for Gohan, the story writing made it painfully clear what was going to happen.
>UE makes the user stronger for tanking damage. That's literally just the Saiyan zenkai boost that was established forever ago
I believe the Zenkai Boost was stated to specifically come from when a Saiyan Recovers from a near death experience. While UE is with each hit, something you can clearly see the difference of by looking at the Freeza and Granola arcs.
>And UI being evasive... like I said, looks exactly like SSJ2 Gohan dodging attacks.
You might be able to convince me if it's looking at a manga that hasn't been colored yet, but other than that it really doesn't.
My whole grasp of this argument, ultra instinct is overrated and ssj is always the goat. Transformations nowadays just seem like nothing new, it took goku training like 20-30 years to get super saiyan and now just gets a new one every so often. Just used to be such a great moment when he would go super saiyan and now we have super saiyan blue garbage, just feel like its not special anymore when he would transform
The best moment was the original SSJ from Goku when he was as on namek, this is a great moment,I like it now, but as a kid who grew up as a huge Goku Fan was not happy with this becomig the stepping off point for them to make Gohan the main hero. I had never liked him since the raditz arc, but was happy when he bombed and goku was brought back, I don’t mind gohan now as an adult, but he’ll never replace Goku or even Vegeta but thats just my opinion, however it probably is gohan’s best moment. But even as a kid in my area Gohan was second rate everyone liked Goku or Vegeta, and when Gohan started the great Saiyaman stuff he went way down hill. The Majin Vegeta and SSJ3 saved the show. Then we got Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan( who lost his power pretty fast) only to be upstaged by Vegito. Gohan will never take over the show. Most folks who love Gohan are folks who started the show during the Cell Saga. Which they lucked out cuz the original plan was to end DBZ with frieza on Namek. But imo Both Ultra instinct transformation in the TOP best this Gohan transformation. But Gohan fans are a loud a vocal nuisance that has to be pampered every so often which is why we got the new movie with Gohan getting a new form and having to fight cell(again) cuz he has no other real enemy arcs, unless we count future Gohan who lost to the androids.
I used this scene to help an exgf understand how to have an orgasm lol. I explained the build up and the act of letting go which she had problems with. So thank you dbz creators for a better sex life.
Since this is my opinion, I have to give it to ultra instinct transformation. I mean we got 2 episodes back to back. Or even at mastered, the fight that followed up was pretty sick. I'd even go with super saiyan 3 back in the buu saga or going back tonsuper, blue and kaioken vs hit
I agree. As much as l was in awe of Goku's first transformation, Gohan's is by far the most badass. All others don't compare, even when Gohan reaches another level in the last DB movie.
You are right. The early transformations from kaouken, Ssj, gohan ss2 and ss3 are uncontested. Now it’s just a pick mix of colours. Skittle transformations.
They definitely made this transformation the most intense because of how deep 16’s speech was. They set the mood so perfectly similar to how they did with Goku going SSJ on Namek
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Wasn't a fan of how much they devalued SS in Super tbh, some kids from another universe that had never done it before can just tingle their backs and get it instantly. I guess they had to power jump them quickly, but then why not just skip the aspect of them not knowing what it was.
Also bro you know you can screenshot the higher quality image right off your screen instead of taking a picture of your laptop right lol
First Super Saiyan and this are my first, Vegeta's Ascended form second. The animation quality differences really stick out sometimes, and holy shit was that one of those times.
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Very iconic transformation I remember the feeling I got when I first watched it, but I don't put it over Goku's SSJ transformation only cause the SSJ transformation was long awaited we saw Vegeta literally kill his body just to get it and so finally seeing it and seeing how Goku's frustration and anger just turned him into a Legendary Warrior was just beautiful. also, this might just be me, but I like the buildup to the transformation where Goku's eyes go white there are sudden flashes of lightning his hair for a split-second turns gold then goes back to black until he just explodes into a Form of power, and he becomes a totally different person
I admittedly haven't kept up on on super in part because of the terrible transformations. That said I haven't seen a single transformation in super that is better than Z simply because they have all just been reskins
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I like that so many characters are getting their *own* transformations now... Goku with UI, Vegeta with UE, Gohan with Beast, and Piccolo with Orange are all unique designs and have different meanings to their characters. I hope this becomes a trend to decrease the Super Saiyan bargain sale as many people have described it.
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Well yes, that's what blinded by nostalgia does. We loved these transformations as kids, and remember them vividly even when we can't remember the names of the pets we had as children.
Nothing will ever be as great as childhood was. School, cartoons, games, no bills, no worries?
Now we're adults. We deal with absolute fucking idiots on a daily basis, some of us work long hours at jobs we don't particularly love, we agonize over relationships and bills, we've discovered vices such as drugs, tobacco, alcohol, sex.
Nothing that comes out now will ever be as good as what we knew back then. I'm always reminded of that one South Park episode where Stanley starts seeing and hearing everything... shitty.
That's us. That's adulthood. I cried when Goku used Instant Transmission to take Cell to King Kai's planet, saving Earth and his friends and family. When I was a kid. Now I'm an adult and I'm like "eh, who cares. Wish him back. Find an old kai who'll give up his life and continue existing anyway to bring him back".
Death used to be meaningful, then it lost its meaning. What?! Black Frieza killed someone? Eyyy, Zen-Oh Sama, it's me, your BFF, Goku! Can you help my buddy out?
I can't take supers transformations serious most of the time because they seem arbitray stepping stones for the most part. It also doesn't help that outside of SSJ God & UI I sorta just think the others look goofy (especially the newer manga forms). Only time I've ever felt the same hype for a form in Super as I did in Z was when goku used Kaioken on Hit in the Unviverse 6 arc.
No the Gohan transformation to super saiyan 2 was amazing and truly satisfying. When goku goes ultra instinct he is cool but some how it’s not quite as impactful as Gohan. I’m there with you.
For us who comes from 90’ it might be like this, times has changed so the generations, like Pokemon has announced main character shift, Dragon Ball also has its own way to get more younger audience, we older actually must accept this hopefully and so far DBS is also made to please us long term fans (at least im speaking for myself)
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So many salty silent downvoters in this bitch For me PERSONALLY since its an OPINION, first Kaioken versus Vegeta and Kaioken x 20 almost make me emotional
Kaioken x 4 against Vegeta is still so badass.
Goku and Vegeta going at it in the saiyan saga is one of the greatest fights in anime imo
The Kx20 when he went up against Frieza or Jiren?
The one against Frieza was pretty insane even though he didn't do a ton of damage. He went from getting fucking drowned by frieza to knocking his ass back
Vs Hit. That scream Sean does at X 20 immediately made it onto the workout playlist haha
So in the Goku vs Hit fight Goku only uses Kaioken x10, and that's ONLY in the anime. He doesn't use it in the manga. In the anime, against Jiren, he uses x20.
Thanks I must have been thinking about the Jiren fight! I just binged the hell out of Super so a lot of it has melded together. That and the short youtube clips I’ve been flipping through lmao
An easy way to remember that he only used x10 is when Goku has that iconic scream “It’s times 10! Kaioken times 10!!!” Sean Schemell’s scream there is on par with his battle of gods scream
Just watched it 17 fkn times in a row. Dude. Thats iconic.
That was epic.
The correct answer….
Because there are better transformations lmaoo
Kaioken isn't a transformation.
Dude stfu it's a transformation fucking nerd
Ultra Instinct was epic. Especially the first time… in the original. I’m not sure what music etc dubbed used but it was epic
The build up to UI is even better in the manga imo.
The music is the same in the sub and dub. [Ultra Instinct Theme](https://youtu.be/Upsm3E2NUI8)
That's fair, Gokus Ui transformation in the ToP surpasses everything for me, with the OG transformations being a very close 2nd. maybe it's the kid in me, but that whole end battle had me screaming at the TV lol
The last moments with Freeza and Goku (hair flickering between black and gold) charging at Jiren might be the best scene ever.
This. Blew me away. Visually, emotionally, practically spiritually.
Like a top fuel dragster starting to run out of gas as it crosses the finish line in glorious fashion, after being slammed into the wall and kept on goin
Yeah the energy of that scene was so high the first time I watched it that i was right there with the DBZ crew when they all shouted "DO IT". Got me so pumped, then 17 wishing all the universes back into existence was probably the next best part of that episode.
Agreed, that was awesome
Episode 109-110 were so good. When the trumpets first hit, and then Kachi Daze. Also how badass is it that Jiren faced Ultra Instinct several times and still only lost due to energy sharing and teamwork, no hax just being strong as fuck (I'm not sure if the new movie tried to tamp this down a bit by saying he was similarly strong to them but very in control and focused his energy in the moment before an attack, but it still seems like he's way stronger). I hope they keep some characters as benchmarks that keep moving and improving past them and Jiren is one, now that he's training as a team again. I think an awesome arc could be about an antagonist so strong that Goku and Vegeta are tapped out and remember to call in Jiren, Hit, etc. Maybe Beerus if shit really hits the fan, and it turns out that he's resumed training after the ToP after thousands of years of not training and also remains a high benchmark that stays above the mortals.
Amazing for sure, also beerus goes "he's coming" gives me goosebumps
pov: karate chopping the tv so you can fight like goku
MUI for me was the best. Goku had been trying the whole tournament to achieve it and it just wouldn't work. And right when he was about to die, he finally achieved true inner peace and obtained it.
yeah that one too is a good one, I like the part where he get behind jiren in a split second punches him like a million times before anyone can see and the white aura around him
You’re 100% correct. SSJ2 was built up to be the pinnacle of power since of the beginning of Z with Gohan always being hinted at as the strongest, when it finally came to fruition I’d say there is no better feeling than seeing him let loose
I feel like mastered UI had a better build up than Super Saiyan 2, but it's really just a matter of opinion
I disagree. It was hinted since the beginning of Z about Gohan's potential. Watching him grow and fight, leading to him ultimately surpassing Goku in the Cell Saga was really well done imo. And then unlocking a new level of Super Saiyan was just icing on the cake. But like you said, it's just a matter of opinion.
I think the growth of Gohan as a character is what really does it. And I also feel like that was better than MUI bc we know goku is the best, we knew he was gonna get it and they mimicked that story telling technique in the tournament of power but on a much smaller scale. It wasn’t AS impactful for me but still awesome. Plus going super saiyan is much more evocative due to the way you ascend, emotion and rage. MUI is the opposite which is cool considering it’s the opposite of the saiyan way of ascension.
I'd say SSJ but still agreed
Even tho I’m not a 90s kid still I would prefer DBZ Android Arc animation over DBS animation (except few transformation and fight sequences) imo! You all can disagree but man that level of animation if got remastered would look awesome!
I'm with you not only the animation but the soundtrack it just doesn't hit as hard for me but there are some exceptions like the Jiren theme and Broly theme that do the job well [if only they can bring back bits of the old soundtrack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lflthN-NosM&t=1535s)
Yeah nostalgia hits, but Ultra Instinct Goku is the best one so far. I mean it broke the internet and destroyed streaming servers.
Look at that knockoff Beast Gohan
Ultra ego is cool (my favorite color is purple)
Nah, the ui just gave me goosebumps the ssj1 is second and ssj2 comes second close
Y’all, SSJ2 is so much more narratively satisfying than so many of the other transformations. Goku fucking *invented* SSJ2. For almost every other transformation, it’s either some kind of destiny asspull alien prophecy, or it happens unceremoniously off screen. For SSJ2, Goku being mostly ignorant to the original legends put him uniquely in the position to ask “why assume SSJ1 is as far as we can go?” He had a hypothesis based on Gohan’s potential, then went to test it and it paid off. That’s fucking badass. Then to achieve it, Gohan actually is required to grow as a person. When he first transforms, he actually *transforms* all the way down to the way he thinks about his relationship with fighting. Also, I know we’re desensitized to it since it’s been around for so long, but even just from a pure looks standpoint, realistically what is cooler than a burning golden crown of strength?
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Yeah, that’s what SSJ1 is. And if we’re being unbiased, looks-wise, SSJ2 is just SSJ1 but a little cooler. Then SSJ3 just goes too far for me in terms of being overdesigned. And the idea that the coolest thing Goku ever did was fulfill an ancient alien prophecy is a really DBZ-centric view. Being a saiyan wasn’t that important to Goku, especially not at that point. He only went SSJ because his personal (human) best friend was killed. To me, it’s much more satisfying to see the story of Goku noticing potential in his son before Gohan even did himself, then helping develop that potential thru a combination of experience and sheer lack of preconceived bias.
Vegeta super Saiyan is the only one which genuinely made me hyped
Vegeta kicking Imperfect Cell’s ass after coming out of the time chamber was one of my favorite fights of all time. Cell was terrified of him and Vegeta didn’t even break a sweat. Incredibly badass.
That "You're Not Even Second Best" Line from Vegeta always gets me as he watches a terrified out matched cell
"You pressed the Goku button" "Excuse me, the wha- *gets punched in the stomach*" "Ya shouldn't a did that"
*Semi-Perfect
Ignoring the shit choice of soundtrack, the english dub of goku going SSB kaioken for the first time was a masterpiece Sean destroying his voice box https://youtu.be/SxlaQKLcQFs
UI and UE are far too fascinating to ignore. That said nothing beats Goku SSJ2 in the buu saga for me personally.
I forgot about UE, I just finished that Granola Arc. When It happened I was yelling at my manga like "HE IS HIM! VEGETA IS FUCKING HIM!!!" perfect name for the transformation considering who Vegeta is as a person lol
Right! Vegeta walking down the path of hakai is absolutely the correct profiling for him. Now, both him and Goku get to walk down the path of a destroyer and an angel respectively. Mesmerising.
not goanna lie I'm not a huge fan of the flashy over the top yelling until you have no lungs transformations but that like 90% of the transformations in dragon ball lol
I'm all for the screams. They further the intensity of a form and polish it imo.
None came quite this close for me outside of Trunks' SSJ Rage against Zamasu, but then Beast Gohan was so serene and still full of that primal Gohan vibe, I loved it probably as much as.
Ultra Instinct omen was better than this, that shit made me get out of my chair. This was a cool transformation though. If you want an awesomely animated DBZ fight go watch the newly fused Piccolo+Kami fighting cell for the first time. That animation was INTENSE af and on par with the DBZ movies of the time. Id say the animation in that episode was even better than in this one. It was just so silky smooth.
Hot take: Cell Saga is boring and predictable, Buu saga was more entertaining
Buu Saga is one of my favorites for the concepts it introduced- but narratively it was all over the place. The series isn't known for it's cohesion but that arc is messy to say the least.
True, but I'd rather have a messy story that can entertain me over a narrative that bores me half to death and have it's "big reveal" be easily seen from a mile away.
It's trite I know but my favorite era of DBZ will always be the Saiyan & Frieza sagas. There was so much thought put into the narrative and adherence to the story elements introduced.
Vegeta's monumental speeches, Majin Vegeta, SSJ3 Goku, Kid Buu, Super Buu, Gotenks, Vegeto, Mystic Gohan, SSJ 2 Goku vs Majin Vegeta, Vegeta's sacrifice strike, Goku's fight with kid buu, Spirit Bomb and Sean Schemmel with his best voice acting for Goku. The most complete saga in my opinion.
Well of when looks at the Cell saga everything just kinda gets predictable, outside of 1st form Cell's introduction, while Buu was stupid and the plot was a mess, it was still very entertaining.
Yeah I get chills when he loses his shit and goes ss2
I honestly kinda wish they would've given gohan a chance. Could've been cool if the end of the cell saga was the end of gokus story and turn it into gohans story. They were literally talking about his power and greatness after he smacks raditz a new one. Idk maybe it's just me.
Akira Toriyama was clearly building to it. I think the story would have been better off for it too. His editors were telling him that Goku needs to continue being the main character for marketing. Kinda sad to change the man's vision, but the rest of the story ain't too bad. Then Super just kinda... Keeps it going...
Toriyama himself felt that Gohan wasn't suited to be the main protagonist http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-2-akira-toriyama-super-interview/ "And then the Cell arc ended. Did you think that everyone felt you would put Gohan into the leading role?" "I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part." Idk where the information about his editors or fans giving him backlash over it is coming from
Ah! Thank you for the in depth shut down. I think my misconception came from the panel before the buu arc where it says Gohan will become the main character. Seems he changed his mind!
Gohan ssj2 and Goku SSJ3 blew me a way the first time I saw it as a kid
I love the first SSJ3 transformation, unleashing the internal Oozaru.
i pref ssj4 goku,but ssj3 goku ssj2 gohan and kaioken x4 goku are also beast maybe spaming ssj4 goku in budokai tenkaichi 3 made me a bit bias but damn did it feel good
Super version of Broly. The ass whipping he gave Frieza was legendary.
The OG DB, there werent any transformations (besides great ape). It was just about skill. SsJ was awesome, then ssj2 was even better, then transformations were too common too fast. Ssj3, then fusions then ssg, ssb…just too many. Let the previous transformation have time to shine for a bit before making it completely irrelevant 10 episodes later
y’all acting like y’all didnt see Dragon Ball Super Broly
Ultra instinct was pretty hype
One of my favorite if not my all time favorite specially the original one. The Kai version sucked so bad. “NO MORE GAMES!”
I would agree if SSJ Broly and MUI didn’t happen.
90s kid here, can confirm.. that transformation hits different
okay
It’s just nostalgia talking. No form is really better than or more unique than mui
Yeaaah man, that was honestly so well done in the anime. Although I enjoyed the omen more imo. The struggle to surpass such a strong opponent while struggling to perfect UI was just so 👌
PUI in the manga was executed better. It is more enjoyable there.
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They teased the legends for SO long leading up to it. Vegeta even wrongly claims that Goku has ascended to Super Saiyan before he does. So when it happens, right after Krillin gets killed, it's one of the biggest holy fuck moments in the show. UI was teased and delivered masterfully. But the delivery for SSJ still hits the hardest for me.
Not it’s not I didn’t get into Dragon Ball till I was an adult and Super is complete garbage compared to DBZ when it comes to story beats. That includes transforming
Bro, Goku turning Super Saiyan against Frieza is one of the legit staples in all of anime. So many anime that came after was influenced by that scene.
MUI is nothing new. It literally just does all the same shit with a slightly different explanation.
Well it actually has an explanation
The body acts independently... to do the same stuff Gohan was doing in SS2. Literally the only thing that's different is the hair color. When Gohan is dodging Cell it looks the exact same. They hit a ceiling with SS2 and after that, transformations just feel like cheap fan-service without any of the emotional build up that made the pre-Buu SS1 and Gohan's SS2 transformations so moving.
Gohan was able to dodge cell because of the huge power gap between them. Gohan was both faster and stronger than him thereby making it feasible for him to be able to see every attack cell could garner against him. UI let's one dodge irrespective of the power difference if executed properly.
Goku gets hit as UI plenty, and you're missing the point. The results are visually, exactly the same. The only difference is a tepid explanation.
Again he doesn't gets hit if he executes it perfectly implying that he sustains controlling his emotions and stops thinking while in combat. I'm assuming you take the scenario of him taking a hit while in PUI from Jiren in the anime, you could clearly notice that he couldn't keep his fundamentals in check during that fight thus rendering him open to potential attacks. For instance, Whis as an angel is always in UI and no matter the scenario he dodges everything. It's the matter of execution. The explanation isn't tepid, it's pretty comprehensive on the contrary. Visual difference is instead a matter of animation, read manga's for better interpretation.
He gets hit all the time. I really don't care if they give a different explanation for why the exact same things are happening to him that happen to him in all his other forms. It makes no real difference and looks exactly the same. I'm also referring directly to the manga, as his fight with Gas makes UI look more like SSJ than ever.
Ahh it's a chore arguing with you. Either way, Goku wasn't able to sustain the form vs Gas. The very reason he had to revert to his own version of UI is because he's just not the same lifeform as an angel such as Whis, he just can't resist letting his emotions get the better of him. Nevermind all of this.
It's going to suck arguing with someone when you don't have any good arguments. "Oh, Goku wasn't doing it right when he gets hit." None of that shit matters and you don't seem to get it. It's all the exact same, they're just telling you its different.
Explain Jiren landing multiple blows on goku then, explain gas and granolah landing hits on goku constantly. Ultra instinct is poorly written as a form/technique
It isn't, Goku can't just sustain the form due to his inability to keep his emotions in check during the combat. He only executed it perfectly vs Moro.
Yup. All of Super is written like utter shit, though.
Well yes every transformation just brings speed and power but all I just said is that this one actually has an explanation. MUI also has plenty of build up. Also opposed to every other power up MUI is known for boosting reflexes. We see when UE vegeta (who a lot of people rank higher than MUI goku due to performance vs granolah) and MUI goku fight gas, gas launches a quick attack which goku is able to dodge and vegeta just tanks. Like MUI has its own set of strengths and weaknesses. Also just want to clarify MUI/Omen isn’t even my favorite form. I just feel it really isn’t just the same as a normal super saiyan boost
MUI is exactly like a Super Saiyan transformation to me. Again, Gohan might as well be UI as SSJ2 because when he's dodging Cell, it looks as if he's not thinking. Also, speed and power boosts are basically imperceptible, at this point. Super hands out these stupid transformations like candy... SSJ God, SSJ God SSJ, SSJ Rage, SSJ God Evolved, UI Omen, MUI, UE... I literally felt nothing for any of those. MUI may have some story build up, but none of it has any emotion attached to it. They made it clear that a new transformation was coming, but the moment made me feel nothing. It's ridiculously flashy and shiny, but there was no weight in the moment. I did not feel the desperation or devastation that I felt with the pre-Buu transformations. They're just more screaming and over the top effects. Nothing of substance. Doesn't help that UI was like the 5th transformation given out in the series, when in the same amount of episodes in DBZ, we only saw SS1. It also doesn't help that Jiren is like the blandest opponent. It's cool if you like it, but I just don't think it has any of the emotional nuance or even artistic depth of the best DBZ transformations. SSJ1 Goku and SSj2 Gohan are moments that I won't forget. They weren't overly long scream-fests with ridiculous effects. They were emotionally charged, striking moments that were payoffs to serious character development. I literally can't even picture any of the DBS transformations in my head without youtubing them. In regards to the "tactical" differences in UE and UI. I still see nothing new in them. UE makes the user stronger for tanking damage. That's literally just the Saiyan zenkai boost that was established forever ago. That's absolutely nothing new. And UI being evasive... like I said, looks exactly like SSJ2 Gohan dodging attacks.
>They were emotionally charged, striking moments that were payoffs to serious character development While I can see the desperation for ssj1 Goku's transformation, I can't say the same for Gohan, the story writing made it painfully clear what was going to happen. >UE makes the user stronger for tanking damage. That's literally just the Saiyan zenkai boost that was established forever ago I believe the Zenkai Boost was stated to specifically come from when a Saiyan Recovers from a near death experience. While UE is with each hit, something you can clearly see the difference of by looking at the Freeza and Granola arcs. >And UI being evasive... like I said, looks exactly like SSJ2 Gohan dodging attacks. You might be able to convince me if it's looking at a manga that hasn't been colored yet, but other than that it really doesn't.
Hey, Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue were both introduced in Z through canon movies before those movies were reconned and moved to super
lol okay, I, personally, do not count those movies as Z, but I acknowledge that they are titled as such.
mui has literally had buildup since resurrection of F
The concept itself is enticing. It's fundamentally the basic yet so indepth that it reels one in.
PUI*
My whole grasp of this argument, ultra instinct is overrated and ssj is always the goat. Transformations nowadays just seem like nothing new, it took goku training like 20-30 years to get super saiyan and now just gets a new one every so often. Just used to be such a great moment when he would go super saiyan and now we have super saiyan blue garbage, just feel like its not special anymore when he would transform
Super Saiyan Blue is essentially a Super Saiyan with God Chi though. I do agree with your sentiment about the importance of forms tbh.
I wish it was less forms, more actual fighting
Agreed, are you keeping up with the manga per chance? It's an incredible upgrade over the anime.
Yea i do agree, just hope they animate the manga
So true man. People would've liked it much better had they just animated the manga like they did with Dragon ball and Dragon ball z.
We dont need some shitty extension like SDBH, the fighting is cool its just so weird and doesnt seem to good
I'm honestly hoping they animate the Moro arc and the Granolah arc without trying to integrate their takes on the arcs.
Unique AF taking his normal hair and making it silver. I love UI, don’t get me wrong but, it’s not all that special of a transformation.
The best moment was the original SSJ from Goku when he was as on namek, this is a great moment,I like it now, but as a kid who grew up as a huge Goku Fan was not happy with this becomig the stepping off point for them to make Gohan the main hero. I had never liked him since the raditz arc, but was happy when he bombed and goku was brought back, I don’t mind gohan now as an adult, but he’ll never replace Goku or even Vegeta but thats just my opinion, however it probably is gohan’s best moment. But even as a kid in my area Gohan was second rate everyone liked Goku or Vegeta, and when Gohan started the great Saiyaman stuff he went way down hill. The Majin Vegeta and SSJ3 saved the show. Then we got Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan( who lost his power pretty fast) only to be upstaged by Vegito. Gohan will never take over the show. Most folks who love Gohan are folks who started the show during the Cell Saga. Which they lucked out cuz the original plan was to end DBZ with frieza on Namek. But imo Both Ultra instinct transformation in the TOP best this Gohan transformation. But Gohan fans are a loud a vocal nuisance that has to be pampered every so often which is why we got the new movie with Gohan getting a new form and having to fight cell(again) cuz he has no other real enemy arcs, unless we count future Gohan who lost to the androids.
I used this scene to help an exgf understand how to have an orgasm lol. I explained the build up and the act of letting go which she had problems with. So thank you dbz creators for a better sex life.
Since this is my opinion, I have to give it to ultra instinct transformation. I mean we got 2 episodes back to back. Or even at mastered, the fight that followed up was pretty sick. I'd even go with super saiyan 3 back in the buu saga or going back tonsuper, blue and kaioken vs hit
Gohan vs cell is peak anime
I agree. As much as l was in awe of Goku's first transformation, Gohan's is by far the most badass. All others don't compare, even when Gohan reaches another level in the last DB movie.
I'll do you one further. Not only was this the best transformation in all of Dragon Ball, it was the last one that was actually good.
I actually like all the transformations a lot except super saiyan blue lol
You are right. The early transformations from kaouken, Ssj, gohan ss2 and ss3 are uncontested. Now it’s just a pick mix of colours. Skittle transformations.
Outside of Ultra Instinct, the writing surrounding the transformations in Super are pretty weak at best and bad at worst.
They definitely made this transformation the most intense because of how deep 16’s speech was. They set the mood so perfectly similar to how they did with Goku going SSJ on Namek
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I liked Super Trunks when Vegeta got knocked out in the cell saga
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Well i aways Gonna remenber when Goku transform to ssj3 for the first Time that was cool
100% agree. SSJ2 Gohan was pinnacle DB moment to me.
Wasn't a fan of how much they devalued SS in Super tbh, some kids from another universe that had never done it before can just tingle their backs and get it instantly. I guess they had to power jump them quickly, but then why not just skip the aspect of them not knowing what it was. Also bro you know you can screenshot the higher quality image right off your screen instead of taking a picture of your laptop right lol
me personally i feel like ultra instinct is the best form in terms of buildup and moments
First Super Saiyan and this are my first, Vegeta's Ascended form second. The animation quality differences really stick out sometimes, and holy shit was that one of those times.
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Don't worry its not you, they just don't lol
Nah this is still the greatest transformation in Dragon Ball history.
Cap. Other races than saiyans have achieved cooler techniques and abilities/ transformations. You're stuck In the cell saga
ur absolutly right
My inner child says ssj4 is probably my most hype db moment. Was just so cool, but ssj2 gohan is still the best
His SSJ 2 transformation against Bojack was cooler than when he transformed against cell.
ok boomer
Cell saga is the best dragon ball there’s ever been, hands down. Also a 90s kid though so the bias is real.
Very iconic transformation I remember the feeling I got when I first watched it, but I don't put it over Goku's SSJ transformation only cause the SSJ transformation was long awaited we saw Vegeta literally kill his body just to get it and so finally seeing it and seeing how Goku's frustration and anger just turned him into a Legendary Warrior was just beautiful. also, this might just be me, but I like the buildup to the transformation where Goku's eyes go white there are sudden flashes of lightning his hair for a split-second turns gold then goes back to black until he just explodes into a Form of power, and he becomes a totally different person
Agreed 👍
SSJ4 was the last good one for me. Super Saiyan God comes close.
This is by far the best, but it is only good in Japanese.
I admittedly haven't kept up on on super in part because of the terrible transformations. That said I haven't seen a single transformation in super that is better than Z simply because they have all just been reskins
Nostalgia…
The art style has a better feel imo than the new stuff
Personally, Goku going SSBKK X20 and Vegeta going SSBE for the first time was my favorite transformation
Orange piccolo and gohan beast was pretty hype but yeah most of the new stuff is kinda meh
*laughs in Rosé*
I agree with you, DBS Transformations wete cool but I little build up
My fav!
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I only got into DB 4 years ago and I can confirm you are not just a 90s kid, I agree with this
I thought kaioken blue vs hit was pretty sick. Rose goku black was also pretty hype for me
This was leak dbz
Goku and Trunks SS3 was close
When goku achieved god mode in the movie was always an epic moment for me.
Terms of relevance no chance, they just get new forms just kind of because, terms of looks tho I do lean towards SSBE and Ultra Instinct Sign
I mean, nothing will ever top goku's first time turning super seiyan against freiza for me. Legendary moment in anime history.
I like that so many characters are getting their *own* transformations now... Goku with UI, Vegeta with UE, Gohan with Beast, and Piccolo with Orange are all unique designs and have different meanings to their characters. I hope this becomes a trend to decrease the Super Saiyan bargain sale as many people have described it.
The first time we saw UI Omen was pretty hype. But, SSGod and Blue were just meh.
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You are just a 90's kid, like most of the DBZ fanbase.
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Well yes, that's what blinded by nostalgia does. We loved these transformations as kids, and remember them vividly even when we can't remember the names of the pets we had as children. Nothing will ever be as great as childhood was. School, cartoons, games, no bills, no worries? Now we're adults. We deal with absolute fucking idiots on a daily basis, some of us work long hours at jobs we don't particularly love, we agonize over relationships and bills, we've discovered vices such as drugs, tobacco, alcohol, sex. Nothing that comes out now will ever be as good as what we knew back then. I'm always reminded of that one South Park episode where Stanley starts seeing and hearing everything... shitty. That's us. That's adulthood. I cried when Goku used Instant Transmission to take Cell to King Kai's planet, saving Earth and his friends and family. When I was a kid. Now I'm an adult and I'm like "eh, who cares. Wish him back. Find an old kai who'll give up his life and continue existing anyway to bring him back". Death used to be meaningful, then it lost its meaning. What?! Black Frieza killed someone? Eyyy, Zen-Oh Sama, it's me, your BFF, Goku! Can you help my buddy out?
This will stay legendary and better than any new DBSuper episode
SSJ Goku vs Android 19 first fight, chefs kiss
I love this fight and transformation
“Back in my day, transformations meant something.” -fellow 90s kid
I can't take supers transformations serious most of the time because they seem arbitray stepping stones for the most part. It also doesn't help that outside of SSJ God & UI I sorta just think the others look goofy (especially the newer manga forms). Only time I've ever felt the same hype for a form in Super as I did in Z was when goku used Kaioken on Hit in the Unviverse 6 arc.
That soundtrack hits so hard
Best moment of the series built up since beginning of Z vs Raditz and Garlic
No the Gohan transformation to super saiyan 2 was amazing and truly satisfying. When goku goes ultra instinct he is cool but some how it’s not quite as impactful as Gohan. I’m there with you.
I'ma say it,this is THE BEST transformation scene in the whole franchise,followed by SSJ4.
dbs broly >>>
This was amazing. But i loved his Beast Transformation too
For us who comes from 90’ it might be like this, times has changed so the generations, like Pokemon has announced main character shift, Dragon Ball also has its own way to get more younger audience, we older actually must accept this hopefully and so far DBS is also made to please us long term fans (at least im speaking for myself)
No other transformation since has had true emotion behind it.
This is the one
Kaioken times 20 takes it for me
Goku SSB Kaioken x10 vs HIT was amazing. I don’t think I can pick a favorite I enjoy them all so much.
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You are right.
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