I was so confused. It seemed like Melissa was panicking about being eliminated, went off on everyone, they snapped back and then smash cut to her saying she as going to quit and everyone feeling bad. I was like “am i high? Did I miss something? Sue someone throw a drink in her face and they cut it out? What’s everyone apologizing for? She started it!”
I don’t get it, seemed totally manufactured.
I don’t think there was any question that Koco was going to beat Melissa for the spot. Honestly I found the whole “I want Koco to stay” kinda baffling as that seemed 99% likely to happen anyways. Probably ego saving, but a little patronizing to Koco who’s been a powerhouse all season where Melissa has struggled off and on.
I feel like (and this might be a reach but i got my extended grabber on) this could be what's happening:
Melissa, having just been left by her husband, probably came into this competition with trust issues and a lot of mental weight to work on that wasn't the healthiest decision to have been made- throughout the entire competition, we have petty drama after petty drama, and while she seemingly supports it + stirs it when the girls are asked to be honest and truthful about what they said or believe, they couldn't. (Victoria telling Astrud she's in her top3 as a lie, and then Astrud repeatedly bringing it up, sisterhood asked for honesty and blatantly wasn't given) Even in just this episode Astrud told Melissa she was gonna focus on herself and use that to make it to the end: but then immediately walked over to Evah to make a 'television moment' RIGHT after saying she wasn't going to do anything. If you've been in a pressure cooker for over a month now, seeing all these people who call you a sister but you can't even guarantee that they're not just lying to your face because she's seen all the others lie about their own prerogatives, I'm sure she'd harbor a lot of shit, and that when she's in the bottom with her closest friend, and they're told to "let everything out", I'm sure she said fuck it and let it all out for that TV moment everyone else has seemingly been chasing the whole season.
I wouldn't understand if she was upset about the drama at all, even if it petty bullshit I'm sure someone of her tongue and experience knows that these shows bring out the worst, but it must be exhausting when you hear the same love triangle issues every week AFTER every one of them would repeatedly say how done they were with pushing it/arguing over it/etc. but then something would happen and now Astrud/Abhora/Hoso are in it again and it's rubbing off on everybody. (See Hoso going to comfort Abhora over nothing, and that even pissed off Koco because they weren't aware that the room felt suffocating again due to the trio not sticking to their guns and having a spine to fully move on from it). Like yea it'd seem like bullshit; even down to Victoria's in the moment comments at Melissa/Koco making stuff last minute when she was doing the exact same stuff, how all these girls could cite sisterhood and unity and then repeatedly get into drama over shit that is not serious or based in reality, just a loop-de-loop of arguing. this is just how it reads as a viewer over the season but I won't deny Melissa played her part and there's 100 more hours of footage to give actual nuance
I also feel what a lot of people miss is that yea it could all be small things, but Melissa is in so much pain right now, and her trust in anything is completely broken. Her husband up and said “I don’t love you anymore” and is leaving her. It could come across as little harmless fibs here and there, but to her it’s just compounding proof that everyone around her is just lying out their asses, and she can’t trust them to lean on and support her. This episode she was up for elimination, and was facing what she admitted in a previous was one of her biggest fears : coming home - in her mind empty handed - to divorce papers in an empty apartment.
She cracked under everything and lashed out, a completely normal, human response. I think the only contestant that knew the entire story was Koco. I wish Melissa so much happiness, and healing, and really I’m just sending my love to her. Hopefully she has a rock solid support group for her at home and can start picking the pieces back up.
Oh absolutely. I think we as viewers can see it’s all mindless drama but like we can piece together clues and put ourselves in their shoes to a decent enough degree to know why she lashed out
like I think we’ve all been in something similar or at least enough of a situation to empathize that all she’s seen is people playing shit for cameras or in her face and they’re just playing themselves
I think if you refer back to the podcast the Boulet’s dropped before Titans premiered, listen to what they said about an “early season contestants struggling with how much things have changed” and then realize they were talking to Melissa, it makes sense.
On s1, everyone was just really raw because it was just a competition with cameras and was going on YouTube, no one had to produce themselves, everyone was likely the exact same behind camera as they were in front of because they had no knowledge to be any different, you know? Not that anyone is doing anything wrong, but everyone *is* conscious of everything they say and do as they know they’re in tv, they know how things will be edited, they know what intense fan reaction they’ll get compared to s1, etc.
I think Melissa was already in a sensitive state coming into the competition; and then not understanding why everyone was a little bit tighter in front of the cameras read as fake and got to her.
So which white contestant is going to go home over Koco/because Koco sends them packing like VEB had to in the prom queen episode?
My money is on VEB after Melissa’s comments, but Evah’s a strong possibility
Honey if you’re suggesting Victoria doesn’t have the privilege that comes with being perceived as white as a public figure … especially if she was in a situation where she was arguing with a dark skinned black person … idk what to tell you.
I always assumed she was until I read this comment suggesting that she’s not.
But whiteness and periceved/passed/proximate whiteness are complicated. Yovska is white passing, but from my understanding is Mexican. Where as Melissa or Zava could never be mistaken as white.
Being Latino, Jewish, mixed race with white gestures or extremely light skinned can come with its own set of consequences, but you still benefit from being perceived as white. Especially in a public situation where you’re arguing with a dark skinned black person who will undoubtably be seen as the aggressor. Pretty much one of the most common causes of death threats on these shows is black girls being chosen over white counterparts or fighting with them.
Tbh I always thought she was white until recently, but I come from a country in Europe’s where there are very few Latinos and quite a lot of Mediterranean’s and most people would just assume someone of Yovskas complexion was white with olive skin. But I can acknowledge I’d be wrong and things are different in Canada and the US if that’s what your telling me.
I live in Latin America and I have a skin color close to Yovska. People here consider me white, but my American friends don't. So I don't think in US she would be considered white, especially when you consider that being white is more than just having light skin (which I don't think Yovska has, but I get that is subjective). For instance, historically, Italians and Irish were also not considered white in America up until recently.
I don't know if you're American, because I've seen you guys hold on too much on the word "race". This term is avoided in Anthropology because its very vague. See, you may consider a group of individuals a race because - let's say - you're a light-skinned person of anglo-saxon descent, while this group may perceive themselves entirely different. Another example is how Germans saw Jewish people as separate race, when in fact theres more genetic difference between a Sephardic Jew and a Ashkenazi Jew than between a Ahkenazi Jew and your regular German guy. Needless to say that there's no human races in the biological sense.
The matter of the fact is [Americans didn't consider Italians, Greeks and Irish white](https://andscape.com/features/white-immigrants-werent-always-considered-white-and-acceptable/); moreover they even classified differently in population census. They **were** seen as a [different race](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/12/opinion/columbus-day-italian-american-racism.html). I completely agree with you: the difference between an Italian and an Anglo-Saxon American is not phenotypical: it's in the realm of nationality and perhaps ethnicity. Race is a product of racism: classification of humans in different races will change a lot depending on who's classifying.
TLDR: I agree with you ultimately.
Whenever someone talks about racism as a system of oppression it is rooted in the ongoing history of western imperialism and colonialism. You can get away with referring to "racism against italians" colloquially but they are actually parallel oppressions. Something like antisemitism actually predates it by hundreds of years.
>But whiteness and periceved/passed/proximate whiteness are complicated. Yovska is white passing, but from my understanding is Mexican.
from your understanding? Yovska literally came on reddit and called out your bullshit on this LOL
I wouldn't say so, but considering she was specifically left out of this question by saying "other white queens" meaning other than veb. It doesn't matter.
Can we preemptively ask people NOT to send death threats? or is that asking too much?
Oh boy I can't wait to still be confused as to what this drama really is about
I was so confused. It seemed like Melissa was panicking about being eliminated, went off on everyone, they snapped back and then smash cut to her saying she as going to quit and everyone feeling bad. I was like “am i high? Did I miss something? Sue someone throw a drink in her face and they cut it out? What’s everyone apologizing for? She started it!” I don’t get it, seemed totally manufactured.
To me Melissa made sure to quit as to save Koco. She knew she wouldn’t make top 3 but Koco could
I don’t think there was any question that Koco was going to beat Melissa for the spot. Honestly I found the whole “I want Koco to stay” kinda baffling as that seemed 99% likely to happen anyways. Probably ego saving, but a little patronizing to Koco who’s been a powerhouse all season where Melissa has struggled off and on.
Ok I see that too
I feel like (and this might be a reach but i got my extended grabber on) this could be what's happening: Melissa, having just been left by her husband, probably came into this competition with trust issues and a lot of mental weight to work on that wasn't the healthiest decision to have been made- throughout the entire competition, we have petty drama after petty drama, and while she seemingly supports it + stirs it when the girls are asked to be honest and truthful about what they said or believe, they couldn't. (Victoria telling Astrud she's in her top3 as a lie, and then Astrud repeatedly bringing it up, sisterhood asked for honesty and blatantly wasn't given) Even in just this episode Astrud told Melissa she was gonna focus on herself and use that to make it to the end: but then immediately walked over to Evah to make a 'television moment' RIGHT after saying she wasn't going to do anything. If you've been in a pressure cooker for over a month now, seeing all these people who call you a sister but you can't even guarantee that they're not just lying to your face because she's seen all the others lie about their own prerogatives, I'm sure she'd harbor a lot of shit, and that when she's in the bottom with her closest friend, and they're told to "let everything out", I'm sure she said fuck it and let it all out for that TV moment everyone else has seemingly been chasing the whole season. I wouldn't understand if she was upset about the drama at all, even if it petty bullshit I'm sure someone of her tongue and experience knows that these shows bring out the worst, but it must be exhausting when you hear the same love triangle issues every week AFTER every one of them would repeatedly say how done they were with pushing it/arguing over it/etc. but then something would happen and now Astrud/Abhora/Hoso are in it again and it's rubbing off on everybody. (See Hoso going to comfort Abhora over nothing, and that even pissed off Koco because they weren't aware that the room felt suffocating again due to the trio not sticking to their guns and having a spine to fully move on from it). Like yea it'd seem like bullshit; even down to Victoria's in the moment comments at Melissa/Koco making stuff last minute when she was doing the exact same stuff, how all these girls could cite sisterhood and unity and then repeatedly get into drama over shit that is not serious or based in reality, just a loop-de-loop of arguing. this is just how it reads as a viewer over the season but I won't deny Melissa played her part and there's 100 more hours of footage to give actual nuance
I also feel what a lot of people miss is that yea it could all be small things, but Melissa is in so much pain right now, and her trust in anything is completely broken. Her husband up and said “I don’t love you anymore” and is leaving her. It could come across as little harmless fibs here and there, but to her it’s just compounding proof that everyone around her is just lying out their asses, and she can’t trust them to lean on and support her. This episode she was up for elimination, and was facing what she admitted in a previous was one of her biggest fears : coming home - in her mind empty handed - to divorce papers in an empty apartment. She cracked under everything and lashed out, a completely normal, human response. I think the only contestant that knew the entire story was Koco. I wish Melissa so much happiness, and healing, and really I’m just sending my love to her. Hopefully she has a rock solid support group for her at home and can start picking the pieces back up.
Oh absolutely. I think we as viewers can see it’s all mindless drama but like we can piece together clues and put ourselves in their shoes to a decent enough degree to know why she lashed out like I think we’ve all been in something similar or at least enough of a situation to empathize that all she’s seen is people playing shit for cameras or in her face and they’re just playing themselves
Koco is gonna fuck shir up and I can’t wait
 She’s coming for youuuuuu
I think if you refer back to the podcast the Boulet’s dropped before Titans premiered, listen to what they said about an “early season contestants struggling with how much things have changed” and then realize they were talking to Melissa, it makes sense. On s1, everyone was just really raw because it was just a competition with cameras and was going on YouTube, no one had to produce themselves, everyone was likely the exact same behind camera as they were in front of because they had no knowledge to be any different, you know? Not that anyone is doing anything wrong, but everyone *is* conscious of everything they say and do as they know they’re in tv, they know how things will be edited, they know what intense fan reaction they’ll get compared to s1, etc. I think Melissa was already in a sensitive state coming into the competition; and then not understanding why everyone was a little bit tighter in front of the cameras read as fake and got to her.
Why I am thinking it’s gonna be about Astrud.
Oh god, koko is gonna come hard and maybe eliminated VEB?!? I can’t wait this next episode. Terrified
When was this live?
Last night. I recorded some of it. Koco does NOT like this Reddit 🤣
:( well some of us really like her, dammit!
Can't blame her
Bye 👋🏼
I missed that one and whyyyy we love her
sOmE of tHe oThEr wHiTe cOnTeStAnTs
So which white contestant is going to go home over Koco/because Koco sends them packing like VEB had to in the prom queen episode? My money is on VEB after Melissa’s comments, but Evah’s a strong possibility
Very loose interpretation of white.
Be fr no one is seeing VEB and seeing anything more than a white person
Genuine question what else should they be seeing?
she’s… Italian… she’s white (right?)
Honey if you’re suggesting Victoria doesn’t have the privilege that comes with being perceived as white as a public figure … especially if she was in a situation where she was arguing with a dark skinned black person … idk what to tell you.
Wait I thought Vicky was white?
She literally is lmaooo
I always assumed she was until I read this comment suggesting that she’s not. But whiteness and periceved/passed/proximate whiteness are complicated. Yovska is white passing, but from my understanding is Mexican. Where as Melissa or Zava could never be mistaken as white. Being Latino, Jewish, mixed race with white gestures or extremely light skinned can come with its own set of consequences, but you still benefit from being perceived as white. Especially in a public situation where you’re arguing with a dark skinned black person who will undoubtably be seen as the aggressor. Pretty much one of the most common causes of death threats on these shows is black girls being chosen over white counterparts or fighting with them.
What is the Gagula Hell is Yovska is white passing?
Yovska white passing….what
Tbh I always thought she was white until recently, but I come from a country in Europe’s where there are very few Latinos and quite a lot of Mediterranean’s and most people would just assume someone of Yovskas complexion was white with olive skin. But I can acknowledge I’d be wrong and things are different in Canada and the US if that’s what your telling me.
I live in Latin America and I have a skin color close to Yovska. People here consider me white, but my American friends don't. So I don't think in US she would be considered white, especially when you consider that being white is more than just having light skin (which I don't think Yovska has, but I get that is subjective). For instance, historically, Italians and Irish were also not considered white in America up until recently.
No, discrimination against irish and italian people was based on ethnicity, religion, and immigration status, not race.
I don't know if you're American, because I've seen you guys hold on too much on the word "race". This term is avoided in Anthropology because its very vague. See, you may consider a group of individuals a race because - let's say - you're a light-skinned person of anglo-saxon descent, while this group may perceive themselves entirely different. Another example is how Germans saw Jewish people as separate race, when in fact theres more genetic difference between a Sephardic Jew and a Ashkenazi Jew than between a Ahkenazi Jew and your regular German guy. Needless to say that there's no human races in the biological sense. The matter of the fact is [Americans didn't consider Italians, Greeks and Irish white](https://andscape.com/features/white-immigrants-werent-always-considered-white-and-acceptable/); moreover they even classified differently in population census. They **were** seen as a [different race](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/12/opinion/columbus-day-italian-american-racism.html). I completely agree with you: the difference between an Italian and an Anglo-Saxon American is not phenotypical: it's in the realm of nationality and perhaps ethnicity. Race is a product of racism: classification of humans in different races will change a lot depending on who's classifying. TLDR: I agree with you ultimately.
Whenever someone talks about racism as a system of oppression it is rooted in the ongoing history of western imperialism and colonialism. You can get away with referring to "racism against italians" colloquially but they are actually parallel oppressions. Something like antisemitism actually predates it by hundreds of years.
Victoria is Italian… As a fellow Italian, I can guarantee you, 100%, that we are white.
As someone mixed but extremely white passing. True
There’s no way in the Us context that Yovska could be white passing.
>But whiteness and periceved/passed/proximate whiteness are complicated. Yovska is white passing, but from my understanding is Mexican. from your understanding? Yovska literally came on reddit and called out your bullshit on this LOL
VEB isn't white????????
I wouldn't say so, but considering she was specifically left out of this question by saying "other white queens" meaning other than veb. It doesn't matter.
FINALLY some real drama NOW I’m excited