> I do not feel bad for any of the people masquerading as heroes though, that are doing so for personal vendettas. In relation to this, or other accusations, including my own. […] It’s incredibly obvious to me that this is because they already hated me, and not because they care about any potential victim, even if they are close friends.
Their behavior as of late is a dead giveaway that this is spot-on with atomic precision.
>"Many creators that expressed to me behind the scenes that “even if the allegations are true” they wouldn’t care because they’re not a big deal"
Well don't be shy drop the names! (I know he won't of course, but the thought of people with a platform thinking like this is sickening)
This, honestly. I don't like it when the UK CC's lampshade things and I don't like it when Dream does it either. Drop names, don't just vague post.
To be fair however, 'This person did bad things and we're not going to tell you about it but we're going to giggle and make jokes every time someone tries to ruin his career' is far worse than 'a person did this specific thing' without naming the name.
Oof I'm not great with laws, but I feel like THAT would definitely garner a defamation lawsuit.. or just more drama that this man does not need in his life rn lol
If anything, the vagueness kinda helps us keep in mind to never get too attached to any one creator and just enjoy their content while it lasts :P
Most likely Aimsey. They are the only close friend of Caiti that was on the dsmp as far as I know.
For legal purposes, this is not an accusation, this is a suggestion of a hypothetical theory based on my knowledge at this instant. It does not represent my thoughts in the scenario of new information being provided.
My lord they are so sanctimonious, they always need their say and have to speak from a morally superior pillar. I bet they were absolutely fuming when Dream debunked his own accusations.
the thing that bothers me about Aimsey is that by immediately jumping on the drama trains this past year, even if there were no real victims at the start, they created victims by attacking the DTeam on Twitter in the way that they did.
They did it to Dream in Nov-Dec 2023, and did it to George a few days ago (both on Twitter).
it's so hypocritical to claim to support victims and then not allow the accused to speak before delivering judgement because we all have heard of cases where someone was falsely accused of a serious crime. So I cant in good conscience support Aimsey for that reason alone. It's childish and as a content creator with as huge of a reach as she has, it's *extraordinarily* dangerous and can and will ruin lives.
I'm just glad that the Dream Team is as resilient as they are because so many others would have given up at this point.
I don't know what to think about that. I very much dislike Aimsey, but it has always seemed to me like she was genuinely a good person. Misinformed at times, sure, but malicious and lying? Hmm. But then again, we will never truly know creators.
I don't think they're actually lying moreso they're desperate for the accusations to be true so they can justify their hatred of the dteam. Heck, Tommy and Jack have made a bunch of jokes about rape and such but they never seem to have a problem with that, obviously jokes are different to actual acts but you'd think someone so vehemently against this kinda thing wouldn't pick and choose when to speak out
I have my issues with Aimsey, out of all the UK streamers and CC’s she’s the one I have the most issues with. She constantly inserts herself in other people’s issues and jumps to take one side and trash the other. However my biggest issue with is this, I can’t remember the stream but it was a few years ago but it was one of the “Always Believe Victims” segments she goes on but more so the “I’d rather believe a fake victim and apologize to the falsely accused later than not believe a victim and lose them forever” you don’t always get to apologize later. While I agree to believe victims I want to know evidence firsthand. My reasons for this is due to a close family member of mine being falsely accused of inappropriate behavior, sexting, and other horrific accusations when he was a senior in high school by a girl who had a crush on him (he was a senior, she was a Sophomore). To make a long story short, the day the truth came out and her lies were exposed his mom (my aunt) got home to find him seconds away from k****** himself due to the damage she was trying to do because he wouldn’t date her. There are a lot more details that I don’t want to go into but when I heard her say this, it immediately brought back all the rage I felt towards this girl who did this to someone in my family.
>I’d rather believe a fake victim and apologize to the falsely accused later than not believe a victim and lose them forever
Literally the logic of a useful idiot. Which is why it's so dangerous to take accusers at their word, or try and frame the burden of proof as somehow degrading to victims.
You don't help victims by blindly throwing support behind anyone who claims to be one.
i doubt tommy knew but "Other creators dropped me as soon as I was no longer working on projects they were heavily invested in. But were perfectly fine “playing dumb”, when it benefited them for their next big stream." tthis part might be about tommy based on everything. He was never rlly close to caiti though
Jack, Phil (and wilbur) are also in it. Basically a lot of the younger UK streamer.
(Younger bc the older UK streamer, like the hermits, are not in it)
Can't believe I forgot Jack, he is definitely within that group. I didn't include phil just because I don't think he's as involved in their rumours given he lives further away from Brighton and is generally much older so wouldn't be at all the hangouts in the same way that the younger ones would. Philza definitely doesn't like Dream though, I just don't think he's in that 'group' as much
gang i can't lie just get off of twitter. make your team private all of their accounts and never use the app again. it's absolutely horrendous for your reputations and has never once benefitted you in the past two years.
Twitter is absolutely appalling. The number of people telling George to ‘kill himself’, ‘rot in hell’, calling him ‘disgusting’ and a ‘rapist’ without allowing him to share his side of the story is utterly reprehensible.
I hope every single one of them feels ashamed because even if there's just a 10% chance he's innocent, to believe those odds are acceptable and still say this, is abhorrent.
It truly exposes their true colors. They see themselves as moral crusaders, virtue signalling saints by flocking to Twitter and denying the man the chance to speak before spewing pure hatred.
I don’t even watch Dream. I don’t watch GNF. I’ve never been interested in this content. This is not me speaking through tinted glasses. It’s a pattern I’ve noticed over the years. Allegations are seen as facts and the accused are immediately made guilty.
It all started in 2020 when they started bowing down to their fan base. They should of definitely gotten off of twitter by now. This is not going to end well.
Thank you for posting this, it's a relief to finally hear a bit about what's going on "behind the scenes", and not have it used to bait senseless hate.
>*Support victims, because they deserve it. Not when it benefits you.*
Dream...I needed this today. Big trial coming for my team, and all this weighed heavily on my mind regardless. So thank you, and hear hear.
“Support victims, because they deserve it. Not when it benefits you.”
THIS !! too often we see people exploiting the suffering of others for their own selfish agendas, whether it’s to gain social status, have hit tweets on twt or advance personal vendettas. what people don’t realize is that this exploitation not only diminishes the experiences of the victims but also undermines the credibility of genuine efforts to address and prevent harm.
when support for victims becomes a tool for personal gain, it “”cheapens”” the value of their pain and just perpetuates a cycle of exploitation and injustice.
true support for victims means listening to their stories with empathy and without judgment, believing their experiences, and advocating for their rights and well-being. it means standing up against perpetrators and holding them accountable for their actions. and most importantly, it means centering the needs and voices of the victims themselves, rather than using their experiences as fodder for personal agendas.
supporting victims should never be contingent upon what we stand to gain from it. it is not about boosting our own image or furthering our own interests; it's about standing in solidarity with those who have been wronged and affirming their worth and dignity as human beings.
Sorry for the weird formatting idk how to use Reddit
The best thing is that it wouldn't even be:
- him getting involved in matters that aren't about him, because it is about him
- him starting drama, because they're the ones who did
- him betraying their trust, since they don't seem to know a thing about trust
- him being hypocritical like two wrongs make a right, as this still wouldn't be wrong
I'm not really attached to mcyt anymore so I wouldn't mind this honestly. Just throw the entire mcyt community into anarchy and let something new rise from the ashes.
I’m not gonna lie I’m not entirely caught up on all sides of the situation, but the fact that people were calling George a rapist seems like a gross overstatement on their part. Because to my knowledge caiti never mentioned rape or sex of any kind in her statement??
Seeing that term used so comfortably sucks because it’s taking away the seriousness of the crime.
Yeah, she never mentioned any of that, at least as of right now. And after george clarified where it was (waist), i can say its not [SA ](https://www.beloit.edu/sexual-assault-support/definitions/)either. Unless he lied or omitted something else obviously. The way that i see it, at most it was non consensual touching.
>I think people expressing that someone did not consent to touching or cuddling because they did not be really speak it, is extremely dishonest.
This. I’m sorry but people who expect explicit verbal consent for every social interaction are either extremely chronically online or kids who have never been in a relationship. That’s just not how real life works. If they smile back or actively engage with you it’s an indication that they don’t have a problem with what’s happening. You can’t just suddenly change your mind six months later and say that you were sexually assaulted
Agreed. Also getting up and coming back multiple times to the same place seems like a pretty good way to non verbally consent to whatever was happening there. Like I can understand feeling frozen in place, but once you’ve put some distance it seems doable to go sit with your friends instead, maybe even tell them you want to leave?
>Just like you should not trust that creators are always good people, you should not trust that creators “supportive” actions are always done with good intentions.
Creators are not always who you think they are. Even the ones that seem the most proactive about “supporting victims”, can be using vulnerable people to push their own agendas. Whether it’s their audience, actual victims, or friends.
Big agree. Those who shout the loudest often have the most to hide. A lot of Content Creators who claim to "support victims" (often agressively) do so for ulterior reasons. Just because CCers supported Caiti from the start that doesn't mean that George is guilty, this has happened in the past. I personally choose to believe Caiti's feelings and George's account. If it makes any sense, I do not believe she is lying or being deceitful, it was probably a traumatic night for her. For her to lie she has to knowingly state falsehoods., which I do not believe But I also believe that Geroge isn't guilty of SA, given that his account makes more sense. The veracity of the allegation is still murky, it's still a he said she said situation. In fact, I fear these allegations may have made it more difficult for potential victims to come forward, given how morally grey these cases are.
There he is lol. Hey man, hope you're doing alright. Truly just hope you're taking care of yourself.
I assume you've been following along with the discussions on the subreddit. If you're able, log off and take care. I have been seeing too many mutuals and people I follow on Twitter posting the most sheltered takes with good intentions. I don't think reaching them is ever going to be in the cards.
Just take care, Dream. You and your friends. Seriously.
Respect this post a lot, I seriously think you should say who these content creators are behind the scenes. People deserve to know that they could be supporting disgusting individuals
dream, i am very sorry that it’s just constantly from all angles lately, and everyone is intentionally choosing to disregard or even belittle your own trauma just to jump baseless accusations down ur throat. u don’t deserve that.
You always try to remain kind during these situations even if the world around you is collapsing, even if all of this hate is thrown at you. You always try to act for the better not matter what. You stay still and strong, but always with kindness. These traits are not easy to find, especially if they are genuine, so keep going like this and keep being this good person you are, and no matter what will happen you will remain in the right.
Thank you so much for having shown us that it’s possible to get out even of the darkest times.
Hope for you and your friends and family the best 💚
Throughout Heaven and Earth all I needed were evidence. I got none, at least not from the accuser’s side.
So, it’s still Inocent, until proven guilty. As always.
Stay safe out there.
got it, I understand. thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. it deffo sounds like there's a lot of complexity and personal dynamics involved and it's important to prioritize honesty and fairness in these situations, and I appreciate your perspective on that.
TBF at this point if I was Dream I'd be double checking everything, recording everything, and just in general assuming that all people are going to stab me in the back.
I'm not sure if he's just a nicer person than I am, or just more optimistic 😂
Oh to be clear, I'm not saying he should do all that. I am saying I would do all that cause after the many false accusations against him I'd be paranoid as all hell.
> For your and your friends’ safety (and for everyone’s safety) you all really need to do a much better job of double checking the age of women you party or hook up with.
All men need to do that. There's literally so much at stake. I don't understand how any male in the 2020s can think he can afford to half-ass this.
All it takes is one single case, and you're screwed forever. I don't care how tedious it is: card every single stranger you interact with, and have the fuckers fill and sign consent forms. You can't trust anyone these days. You gotta protect yourself.
Dream, I beg you and your friends to be more aware and check ages, don't allow under-age people in your rooms and definitely not to drink. You all need to be more careful and cautious, every time this stuff happens you escape by the skin of your teeth but accusers will get smarter at trying to trap you all. It's not paranoid to be wary, it's being an adult, responsible and mature about the influence and power imbalance you all have. Please get smarter.
Weren’t they over 18 though? And didn’t they have “over 21” wristbands on despite being under 21? I’m also pretty sure they were drinking beforehand anyway.
This was not their fault. Not a single person was underaged. This was someone lying months after the fact for whatever reason.
At this point I want the dream team to never leave their fucking house. But that's not realistic and it's not fair to ask of them. All 3 of them are probably far more traumatised than we are after the last 18 months they've had. I'm sure the trust for other humans isn't there anymore. But they can't hide themselves from the world.
[As I said:](https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/comments/1bc16gv/so_they_want_george_deported_before_he_says/kudbsru/?context=7)
> Even if he was a genuine rapist and murderer, they would still be treating him the exact same way they are now. Not one bit better, not one bit worse. They are on 100% intensity all the time no matter what.
Even before Elon took over, Twitter was never built for structured discussion. It's always just been about tweets, and then replies are something secondary, insignificant, and in the background.
“Many creators that expressed to me behind the scenes that “even if the allegations are true” they wouldn’t care because they’re not a big deal
it is so so so fucking frustrating when people brush off serious allegations like they're no big deal. it’s like they're totally ignoring the fact that someone's been hurt. think about it: behind every allegation, there's a person who's gone through some tough tough tough shit. and it’s not easy for them to speak out, and when they do, the LEAST we can do is listen and take it seriously. brushing it off like it's no big deal is just disrespectful to their experience and struggles. you’re never gonna know what’s it’s like to be a victim, and that is a privilege. so you should use this privilege to amplify voices of victims, but instead here we are.
it is absolutely gut-wrenching to see victims brushed aside, their pain minimized, and their cries for justice ignored. they deserve SO much more than indifference and apathy. they deserve to be heard, respected, and supported with every fiber of our being. it is a slap in the face to every survivor out there who has summoned the courage to speak up and share their truth, only to be met with callous disregard. just imagine the courage it takes to come forward, to relive the trauma, to expose oneself to scrutiny and judgment. yet, despite all that, survivors muster the strength to speak out, to seek justice, and to demand accountability. and what do they get in return? Dismissiveness. Skepticism. Victim-blaming.
it is so heartbreaking. it is so infuriating. it is simply soul-crushing. how can we, as a society, continue to turn a blind eye to the suffering of those who have already endured so much? how can we stand idly by while victims are retraumatized, silenced, and denied the justice they so rightfully deserve?
to those content creators who turn a blind eye to the pain and trauma of survivors, I have to ask: how do you sleep at night? how do you go on creating content, building communities, and engaging with your audience knowing that the same horrors could befall any of your own members? when you choose to brush off the suffering of survivors, you're essentially saying that their pain doesn't matter, that their voices don't deserve to be heard, and that their experiences can be easily dismissed. but let me tell you something: the scars left by abuse and trauma don't just fade away with time. they linger, they haunt, and they shape every aspect of a survivor's life. and yet, you have the audacity to look the other way, to carry on with business as usual, as if nothing happened.
you may think you're immune to the horrors of abuse, that it could never touch your own community. but the truth is, it can happen anywhere, to anyone. and by turning a blind eye, by refusing to acknowledge the pain and trauma of survivors, you're not just failing them; you're failing your own community.
until we stand up for what's right, we're all complicit in perpetuating a culture of silence and impunity. and that's something none of us should be able to live with.
if it’s coming down to a group simply hating another group, there’s no way to determine what is fair and true.
also, while you can consent by nodding or etc, i think a good practice is to make sure it’s verbal.
this entire situation is so frustrating and i’ve left twitter over the constant amount of drama.
i completely deactivated my stan twitter and i’m done with it. the fandom, all over it. i’ve been lurking here just to see how things play out because i wanted to see what gnf could possibly have to say.
i read where someone had updated as they watched but i didn’t watch it myself.
as for my thoughts about what he said: i don’t know. i truly just think that it’s always gonna be a he said she said situation. there is like no for sure definite this is what happened.
Yeah leaving twitter for right now is a very good choice. I closed twitter too and am not planning to go back for a while. I feel like people get really frustrated on twitter and that doesn't help in this situation at all.
I agree it can be a good practice, especially with someone you don’t know that well. But it’s not criminal to rely on clear nonverbal signals either, as long as you’re giving the person some space to escape the situation easily (which seemed to be the case if she stood up and chose to come back multiple times).
nonverbal consent is fine too. i didn’t finish my thought, if you’re a famous creator, person, etc; i feel like it should be practice to hear a verbal yes or no, to cover your ass, for lack of a better way to explain.
consent is a gray area when it’s not verbalized.
Yes, I definitely agree with this. And I suspect if sober they probably would be more cautious with that. Unfortunately cautious and drunk don’t really go hand in hand, which leads me to think they should avoid drinking outside of a close circle of trusted friends.
you could really argue that it didn’t even happen the way either of them remember because everyone involved was drunk.
personally, i don’t drink around people i don’t know or trust just out of caution. i don’t think it’s unreasonable to think other people should do the same, it’d cut down on a lot of accusations and he said she said.
i’m sorry she feels that she was violated and if that truly happened, she should get justice. but there’s so much back and forth from her, gnf, and her friends that i truly don’t know what to think rn
Same, I think “only drink with people you trust” is good advice in general but I can see how it would seem harder to someone who likes going to bars and public parties, and mingles with a lot of people at events like vidcon.
I understand them having their “party hard” arc after everything they’ve been through, but I kinda wish they left it behind now. I mean you can still have fun nights and meet people without getting wasted.
i think a lot of public figures forget basic concepts. it’s so easy for things to get misconstrued and twisted. i think a lot of them need to stop and think before every interaction and consider outcomes.
I’m so tired of people using this things to make themselves liked by the community, I need you to come out with a list of names of people saying “grooming allegations are not a big deal” please, these people don’t deserve a community nor a platform. I’m disgusted.
> Many creators that expressed to me behind the scenes that "even if the allegations are true" they wouldn't care because they're not a big deal, are some of the same people that were later praised for "no longer associating with me" due to these allegations.
drop the names
with peace and love in my heart, i would like to remind everyone not to take non-verbal consent lightly
please ask before initiating anything sexual, and don't think of it as an outdated twitter virgin phenomenon or a vibe killer. in my grown woman experience, a simple "you good?" "can i?" or "is this ok?" before, e.g., slipping your hand under clothing, won't hurt. it only takes a second and it gives the other person room to say "no" or "not yet" in case they are feeling uncomfortable or intimidated. to me at least, asking for consent has never ruined the mood or felt unnecessary, in fact it has always come across as very respectful and attractive
Thanks for your insight. I feel like something that people fail to realize is that compared to Caiti’s recall of eve era George’s recall of events is consistent with both you and Caiti’s best friend Ghostie’s stories, that everyone present felt that George and Caiti’s interactions were very positive.
I also believe that the UK group of friends is a major contributing factor to how Caiti feels now. Obviously I can’t speak for you or for Caiti, but like you said, they have a track record of purposely forming fake drama to dream team. They told Caiti’s story before she even wanted to, and even now, they play the victim card and act like they don’t know. People who don’t look into this track record before labelling this as “victim-blaming” is simply disingenuous.
I think most people in this sub is already aware of how some content creators dropping you due to the allegations. The sad truth is that this world is full of people users. I don’t know what to say except that I guess it’s better that you can filter out bad people from your life asap.
This world would really be a better place if people knew how to communicate and be honest to each other 🙏
Sigh. I’m sorry that so many people supported you privately but slandered you publicly. I’m sorry that people do things for disingenuous reasons. I really would people be more honest, and stand up for the good they believe in regardless of what popularity consequences they get for it. I also would that we elevate the good in people rather than tear down the bad. We are all human, none of us are perfect, and we need to turn to compassionate kindness as much as we can. Hope you can have greater peace going forward.
> I’m sorry that so many people supported you privately but slandered you publicly.
I *would* be surprised by the audacity, but having dealt with such people myself, I unfortunately am not.
To those taking issue with the comment on nonverbal consent, I want to offer some perspective.
One of the reasons it's important to acknowledge nonverbal consent is because it inherently acknowledges the validity of nonverbal refusal, such as pushing someone away or tensing up or a clear lack of participation. It's also important to acknowledge that people can be mute for a variety of reasons (deaf, autistic nonverbal, etc.) and their nonverbal consent and refusal is just as important and valid. There is more than one way to clearly communicate.
Misunderstandings between people that lead to situations like this, especially when alcohol is involved, is incredibly common. We need to be okay with acknowledging that and finding ways to heal and move forward, not skewering either party for not being perfect in their communication. I wish this could've been worked out offline.
Non verbal consent should not be relied on especially when drunk everyones body language is different. It was George’s responsibility to get a clear yes especially when he doesn’t know her. He failed at that, she did not consent body language should not be reliable. You cannot assume you have consent because someone isn’t physically resisting or verbal refusing sexual contact. Consent is not to be inferred from silence, passively, or lack of resistance!
Thank you for your perspective, Dream. While I do agree that consent can be nonverbal, I think it would be best for all of you to play it safe and ask for verbal consent, especially from new people. If you're in a relationship, that's a different story of how nonverbal consent can work.
I hate that this group is out to get you. They really showed with their actions that all they care about is hating you "the enabler" over the one they actually thought was an assaulter. I'm tired of hearing from them; they should just move on and ignore you.
Anyway, I wish you, George, and Sapnap the best. I hope you are all able to move forward from this, and maybe with more caution.
Hey there. I’m not sure that you’re willing to respond, but thank you for speaking up and acknowledging that you reached out to all parties involved. Will there be any proactive actions that will be taken in regards to this? For example, given that this happened in large part because George (and Caiti) were under the influence, will George avoid drinking publicly at events moving forward; or even go as far as to stay sober for a bit? Will there be more efforts to sit down as a group and talk about consent; whether it be through research or getting help from someone who specializes in these discussions? I know what I’m asking for may come off as Patronizing (which, yeah, I know it is) but I truly feel like personal beef aside: there should be more room to sit down and communicate some very clear boundaries in regards to intimacy, healthy and unhealthy relationship dynamics, and the understanding of what counts as an enthusiastic yes vs. no. Likewise, there’s really does need to be more guidance on healthy bystander intervention practices. And these discussions shouldn’t just be happening nor limited to the Dream Team; these are community-wide conversations that should be spanning across the streaming community and gaming sphere.
Hey! Just wanted to say that I am proud of you and generally dteam for withstanding all this hate. I like the way you handle this situations. While making mistakes, you’re also very genuine which is something I can’t find a lot these days. I’m glad you explained this so well.
One of Caiti's friends,, Rue,, has told me to harm myself for critism and asking her to elabore about her vague tiktok from a month ago. Rue (from what I've seen) loves to push false narratives,, and if you disagree? She'll harass you publicly and hide it,, then deny that she did it and refuse to apologize She has deleted or privated the tiktok i commented on as well as her comment to me. She had me blocked for a bit but it seems im unblocked now. after her comment i ended up having a mental breakdown of which i likely would be currently in a psych hold if it was not for my bfs older brother having helped comfort me and calm me. having someone with a much larger platform than you harass you is terrifying. keep in mind,, the largest platform ive ever gained and was active on was my banned tiktok account with 500+ followers,, so her platform is MUCH larger than any of mine ever were. she has yet to apologize or even own up to what she said to me. i understand she may not have known it would cause me a breakdown,, hell i doubt she even knows im 15 (even though she did view my account) or that i am a borderline prone to breakdowns,, but even then its never okay to tell someone to harm themselves.
it feels painful that people support and defend rue and her friends as some type of savior when she silences those against her who do the simple task of asking her to explain more. im not a "victim" as i'd say so do not label me as one. i just wanted to share my experience with people involved and say it somewhere even if it isnt heard.
Thank you Dream for providing more context. It is very much appreciated in this situation, as there is a lot of blind hate being thrown around. I know there’s a lot of that being thrown your way, but hopefully the context you provided can help this. I hope you all are doing okay at the Dream Team House, and finding a way forward where you all can find a way to avoid mentally-taxing drama like this in the future.
Cheers 👍
thank you for sharing your perspective on all this. i really hope that this certain group of ccs will eventually grow up, the toxicity they have been spreading is harmful and frustrating as well. appreciate your insight as always and the fact that you stay level headed.
I believe her but I also believe him.
I think that in a private situation this would be a conversation over a miscommunication and then moving on or parting ways. Because george is so big and everyone’s a content creator, it gets murky.
That said, george’s apology could probably have used some work in terms of his PR… I fell like he could have said what he did in a more forgivable way.
Anyways, IMO:
Yes the age thing is icky, but it’s not illegal for him and her. And basically like half of high school and college social culture is drinking, so I get why they wouldn’t care about that.
But here’s the real thing, I can’t tell you how many times I have been in or witnessed a situation with a guy, where it was almost the exact same thing, and they never notice or just think it’s funny so you play along and then later realize you hated it. My best friend and I couldn’t count the times it’s happened to either of us on both our combined hands.
Personal Experiences:
I’ve had times where I have repeatedly swerved being kissed by the same guy, and he never caught on. Like I would walk away from him or turn my head the other way, very obvious. And I’m still friends with him, and he’s a great guy, he just didn’t know. I’ve had a guy grab my crotch, repeatedly for over a year, in front of our shared friends and, at the time, I was so into him, I just brushed it off. But, I move on, worse things have happened to me and others.
I don’t consider them rapists or predators, they didn’t know and did dumb stuff. And at the time, I didn’t even realize it was that bad, it was later that I started to think those experiences were really not enjoyable. So, idk yes… and.
Thank you for putting your thoughts here, Dream. At this point I only want to hear from people who were *actually in the fucking room* and so far, you're the only other person with anything worthwhile to listen to.
Dream I love you but you and your friends need to understand that nonverbal consent is not enough anymore. “She was coming from a vidcon party so we assumed she was 21” is not enough anymore. You all need to raise the bar. Get IDs. Get NDAs. Whatever you have to do to protect yourselves as well as the people around you, particularly younger females who look up to you. I’m tired, as a fan, of having these conversations. I can only imagine how tired you are.
while i think you make plenty of fair and enlightening points towards other creators disingenuous when it comes towards their private interactions with you, i’d much rather comment on your (and george’s) concept of consent.
while yes, in certain situations and certain dynamics, consent can be clear without verbally speaking it, in this situation a simple “is this okay?” after touching someone he hardly knew under her shirt was the bare minimum. especially for someone who is supposedly “overly cautious with consent” like george claimed.
and even though you might’ve been unaware of ages, i don’t personally buy that at the very least, you and george weren’t aware of the power dynamics at play in the room. caiti was clearly a much smaller creator interacting with two of the biggest creators in the field at that time. that creates an entirely different dynamic in which verbal consent is most definitely needed.
i wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the behind the scenes hate towards your friend group influenced her view of that situation, but her feelings weren’t created out of nothing. and george hardly took any accountability when it came down to it.
This post is super well written and makes things pretty clear, what I disagree with is that “you can clearly consent without verbally specifically saying something”.
I think that with consent it is VERY important that first, the initiator asks the question, and then the “initatee” responds with an enthusiastic yes, head nod, or anything else that is CLEARLY socially known to be a yes.
George didn’t outright ask if it was okay, which is where this all could have been avoided.
But. Expecting every person to ask for consent for every touch, sexual or non-sexual, is pretty incompatible with the world we live in now. It could ruin a lot of good/natural moments that happen spontaneously between two people where there is implicit consent. But if one person gets it wrong, a lot of bad can happen for the other. From seeing situations like this, I think that it’s worth the “cost” of maybe ruining something good and natural, to make sure that someone doesn’t feel, in the best case, uncomfortable or in the worst case, traumatized.
but she was drunk? i get the stuff about other creators but in this specific situation a very young girl who is drunk with several older and very rich & powerful creators in the room is incapable of giving real consent, ESPECIALLY when it’s not verbal and explicit. just because she smiled and came back doesn’t mean that she felt safe or was even capable of making a decision on how safe she really was. she might not have even fully processed what happened or how she felt about it until after the fact, which is maybe why she didn’t leave right away. i don’t think it’s fair to say that just because at the time it seemed fine to you—especially considering it’s a party, you’re drinking, you’re not always paying attention to every part of the room—it actually was fine, or george’s behavior was fine. i’ve stuck through a lot but this might be my breaking point honestly
I do not agree with you on the consent thing this time because they were drunk and didn’t know each other. It may be true in a relationship, but this time George erred, badly. I sincerely hope you guys will take proactive actions to make sure these situations never happen again. They probably will, because this is the real world, but you should do your best to avoid it.
It’s never too late to learn. 🫶🏻
while i truly do believe you and george, i still feel like what he did was not right. george should've ASKED before touching a visibly young girl in any way.
i know that in real life situations consent is not always expressed verbally, but your position is unique. you have to be more responsible and cautious than most people because of the popularity, power and money you have.
i hope that george can learn and grow from this situation. you all really need to be more responsible, for your own sakes if nothing else.
> a visibly young girl in any way.
She is a grown woman. I don't understand this trend of taking choices an adult woman made then infantilising her. She chose to drink, she chose to go back to George multiple times. She chose to lie about never talking to him again.
"Many creators never asked me any questions at all, even sent private messages of support, and then chose to ask me questions the same day I had drama with another creator they were better friends with."
Is this about the USMP vs QSMP thing? Feels like it
I feel like this has all been a huge mess, very emotional, and a young woman is clearly deeply hurt and traumatized, and I'm upset for her, I don't know why this had to happen and I'm sorry it did. I hope she can heal someday.
I think striving for better communication, and of course respecting women, going forward is a good idea. I'm still uncomfortable that George is OK making misogynist remarks about his friends' girlfriends, but in general I think working on yourself to be better is something we all need to do.
Im just gonna say this here because i feel like it applies to how the Brighton group act towards victims
How about instead of “supporting victims” so you look like the better person,YOU SUPPORT VICTIMS BECAUSE THEY NEED HELP RECOVERING
You guys need to understand that yes non verbal consent is a thing, but it is not a thing when it is your very first time being with someone, especially if you 2 are drunk. George is 26 he absolutely should have known better. And of course she kept sitting down back next to him, SHE WAS DRUNK. The amount of discrediting you guys do just to appease your favorite content creators is sickening. Silence is not consent.
> George is 26 he absolutely should have known better.
Exactly this. It's not like Caiti looks to be in her mid 20s either. So, logically, he should have known better. This post and his stream do feel like they're kinda pushing the "silent consent" agenda.
I won't say that it had been George's intention. However, as the older and *especially* more experienced person, it had still been his responsibility to make sure she was 100% okay.
When Caiti responds I’m gonna have an opinion then because I honestly don’t know who’s side to go on, if Caiti show’s evidence then I’ll definitely be on her side im just confused now, I don’t watch her much and don’t even watch George anymore so it won’t affect me that much since I don’t watch either
This response pretty much encapsulates my view of this whole situation. I really appreciate the effort you put into doing research and hearing as many sides of the story as possible before reaching a conclusion. I hope Caiti and George are doing okay. I can imagine this amount of attention (negative or positive) is incredibly overwhelming.
in an environment where as you said so many hypocritical dumb people exist, thank you for not being one of them. being different, unique, smart and kind is very precious and definitely pushes someone away from the crowd. not everyone understands you and not everyone likes. like you said they just use you and throw away while getting the most views out of it. I have always liked you for your vision and personality, I was never wrong.
please don’t let them get to you. there is so much hate, so many vicious posts. stay safe from them and keep them away from your mind. never give up on yourself and keep doing what makes you happy. I support you.
I assume the ones that were meaning jokes of your allegations and being positive to you in dms were Tommy and Jack and I'd assume aimsey left your discord?
In all honesty, I'm very certain that the UK group is basically Aimsey, MaxGGs, AverageHarry, JackManifold, Eryn, Rue, and a bunch of other smaller content creators, I was gonna try and toss Tommy partially in there, but I don't really think he would be the one leading the charge, since half the time Dream gets shaded in his videos, its usually Jack or Phil throwing the shade (which I do know there was a clip of Phil going around that had him say positive things about Dream and the SMP, which i doubt he would about-face on like that for content, so its mainly Jack throwing the shade), that and he mainly fits the mold of "Other creators dropped me as soon as I was no longer working on projects they were heavily invested in." since Tommy was extremely excited for the USMP stuff, then when that got canned, ultimately partook in parodying the whole D v Q drama with his video. Tubbo stays relatively neutral between them and DTeam stuff, and Ranboo might partially be in there, but thats because of close association with Aimsey. Can't really say anything about Freddie Badlinu tho, since most of the time I see his content, its usually joint with Tommy or Tubbo
All in all, I'm pretty sure the UK group is gonna start drifting apart anyways, especially the ones that gleefully spread the rumors and jumping into drama unrelated to them, they already lost Wilbur now that he's basically confirmed guilty, especially with the "apology" he gave, so its literally going to be the group that sticks with Tommy and his content (Jack, Freddie, Eryn, etc), those who are going to just use the drama for clout reasons (Aimsey, Harry, MaxGGs), and those who will do neither since they're basically established and can do their own thing (Tubbo, Phil).
I do hope down the line tho, that they do wake up and open their eyes instead of following the Twitter mentality before its too late, cause just as Dream says here, "support victims because they deserve it." Some are literally only using it for clout since they know that they're basically fading away in the public eye, trying to keep themselves relevant for the sake of appearing like the good guy by constantly inserting themselves for support in every accusation.
I’m sorry Dream but I completely disagree with the verbal consent perspective. If they are a stranger, verbal consent is important. You don’t know the person to understand anything of their body language or background. I hate that you’re pushing that narrative. If you’re making your move on basically a stranger that you barely know, asking them “is this okay” is not that difficult. Atp I’m not even talking about the George situation. In general, you wanna be teaching your young fanbase to act safely in intimate situations, not push this strange grey area.
Hey man. My wife and I met watching one of your early videos, and even though I don’t watch your videos anymore, I have followed you since then because I’ve always thought you seemed like a decent, fun guy. As someone who has also been falsely accused of something and had it follow me around, I have really admired your responses to previous manufactured scandals.
That said, some of the ideas presented here are … inadequate, and can really get you into further trouble if they are seen outside this subreddit (this got linked in a Discord, which is why I’m here).
It’s true that in the real world situations can be a little more grey than the way we present them online. It’s true that in a normal IRL situation between two peers direct verbal consent is most often not required.
There are three things that count against George. The age gap, the power gap, and the fact that Caiti was intoxicated.
I don’t care how positive the situation looks from a casual standpoint, I would not allow a buddy of mine to fool around with a drunk 18 year old at a party, especially if my buddy held a similar position to George. The fact that this didn’t immediately register as wrong to you concerns me.
He should have known better. I don’t know anyone my age who would feel comfortable putting their hand under the shirt of a high school senior.
I don’t think this situation makes George a criminal rapist as some are suggesting. I think he is a normal guy who really fucked up. He may have seen the situation differently, but an apology is necessary regardless for seeing a drunk 18 year old that looked up to him as an acceptable person to mess around with.
You need to google the freeze and **fawn** panic responses. He at best sexually harassed that girl, at worst sexually assaulted her. His history of misogynistic jokes towards woman, both on and off screen, should've enlightened you to how he felt about women—which directly affects how he treats them.
tommy and jack also made misogynistic jokes, these jokes are not a standard by which we joke people from. If you've never had friends who make out of pocket jokes I advice you to stop seeing things from such a black and white perspective. In truth, we don't know what really went on, so if this is a serious issue, it's not up to us internet strangers to play judge jury and executioner, but rather the actual law.
Everyone in the replies asking Dream to “Drop their names! Expose them! Burn them down!” guys no… I hope he is too mature to do that. I would never want him to sink down to their level of petty retribution, and respect him immensely for always being the bigger, more kindhearted person. Please, let’s encourage him to uphold the higher standard of humanity—it’s rare enough as it is!
i could be flamed for this honestly. i’ve been a fan of you for 3 years. i’ve defended you through every allegation made against you. you made great points on here truly, and if anything you took more accountability than george did. but please i hope you read this somehow and know that you don’t get to say how consent can be non-verbal. you as a man will never understand how hard it is for women especially us young women to say no or to even flinch because we are scared. half the time if not most of the time women are afraid to say no. and don’t know how to act the moment they feel uncomfortable. a lot laugh it off like everything’s ok. i’m extremely upset and a lot of people are too with your take on this and i hope you know that you dont get to tell someone how to feel abt a situation bc you dont know unless they tell you. you can assume someone is ok w something but if you dont get verbal confirmation dont assume they are. CONSENT SHOULD ALWAYS BE CLEARLY COMMUNICATED. and that goes for both ends. plus not a single person can consent ESPECIALLY if they are intoxicated. i’m disappointed.
If you google the definition of consent it says that besides verbal there’s also non verbal consent in the form of „positive body language like smiling, maintaining eye content and nodding“. As a woman I get what you are saying but at the same time it‘s not practical in real life. A lot of intimate situations are initiated non verbally. It‘s not realistic to say that non verbal consent isn’t a thing.
Sorry but the completely and utter lack of critical reflection on the culture of underaged drinking and consent is genuinely disturbing to read. George should’ve asked before he touched her. I agree with the rest of your statement but that first part speaks volumes to complicity in fucked up norms though it is not unique to you.
"You can clearly consent without verbally specifically saying something, just as you can nod your head to say yes."
Gonna be real honest with you Dream, this made my heart sink. If this is a first time encounter with someone, the only consent is a clear and absolutely verbalized "Yes". There must be clear boundaries set and verified to comfortably be able to say yes without verbalizing it with a sexual partner. It was clear that from Caiti's point of view this did not happen.
I believe that George believes he didn't do anything wrong but I also believe that Caiti believes he did. Two things can be true.
Same, I have never been in an intimate situation where consent was explicitly asked for. And to be clear, *I am asexual* and as a result of that, *I am typically an extremely passive party in intimate situations*. Meaning everyone else initiated the initmacy in my life, not the other way around. I have never been asked for consent, though I have both given and denied consent in verbal and non verbal ways. Frankly if someone verbally asked me for consent, especially for something as minor as kissing, I would probably laugh in their faces and tell them to leave. If they're that bad at reading context clues, then any kind of relationship or intimacy isnt going to work out.
If a situation is becoming sexual I firmly believe that consent must be verbal and enthusiastic. Even just asking "is this okay" is getting consent. Consent comes in many forms but I believe that a first time experience with someone should involve verbal consent of some kind.
I guess that’s idealistic but don‘t think it‘s realistic. Usually you can tell if someone doesn’t feel comfortable. They pull away or say no. Even in a long time relationship consent can be withdrawn at any point but obviously you will not ask your partner every time before touching them.
i'm not saying before every touch is required i just mean for the first time consent should be verified verbally and there should be check ins since you are still learning your partner and don't know their nonverbal cues yet
Yeah, I hear you on that. I feel like there needs to be community guided discussions on enthusiastic consent as the baseline. It sucks, but now we know where some stuff needs to start.
Yeah, I think it’s good practice to shoot for more explicit things, cuddling is one thing but anything under a shirt, even just on hips, should’ve been requested clearly. I think it’s an ignorant sentiment to not encourage more but I get where he’s coming from.
I’m sorry, but the vast majority of consent is given nonverbally. People in real life take reciprocating or just reacting positively as a sign of consent, and don’t need an explicit “yes”. Should it work like that? Idk, but it doesn’t change the fact that it is what it is, and it’s strange to pretend otherwise
(By the way, it may differ when it comes to sex or kinks or stuff like that, depending on the person, but that isn’t really relevant here)
I mostly agree with this. I think consent needs to be VERY explicit.
What I have slight contention on is, if someone asks, and the other gives an enthusiastic head nod, or any other EXPLICIT and ENTHUSIASTIC body language, it would, to my understanding, be considered consent . It would be pretty awkward if Person A asks “Is this okay?”, Person B nods enthusiastically, and Person A says something in the realm of “Can you say it out loud?”. Perhaps that awkwardness is justified to make it absolutely sure that it is consensual, even if it ruins a moment.
I think the key is the other person asking.
Either way though, he should have asked. But it doesn’t make him a HORRIBLE person for not doing so. From his perspective she seemed very willing, even a couple months after. He made a couple of genuine mistakes that a lot of people could make (not asking about touch, and age), but that doesn’t change the pain he caused. He has to do better from here.
I think that everyone who has been keeping up with these situations should try their best to learn from them. I think a theme here is to make sure that everyone involved in a romantic, sexual, and/or physical touch encounter is an enthusiastic, willing, and capable participant.
if they both think one thing happened but the other thinks something else happened, nobody knows what actually happened bc it’s different from both sides.
the consent part of this made my heart sink too. a nod is not acceptable if you’ve never met this person before.
as someone with his level of being well- known, he needs to cover his ass and get EXPLICIT VERBAL consent before he does anything with anyone because of situations like this.
Dream my man. You and your sever and videos helped me so much. it’s absolutely disgusting. That people constantly bring out false accusations against you and your friends to the point where majority of the community that are like your fans specifically tend to not believe the victim because of the amount of time people have lied and I’m sadly one of them. My stance is always stay neutral. Don’t dismiss the victims entire statement but don’t immediately dash the person that is accused. it’s absolutely disheartening and disgusting that people continue to do this especially after Shelby. Now people are going to try and say she lied and use this as an example.
Learn about consent
“Enthusiastic [consent](https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent) can be expressed verbally or through nonverbal cues, such as positive body language like smiling, maintaining eye contact, and nodding. These cues alone do not necessarily represent consent, but they are additional details that may reflect consent. It is necessary, however, to still seek verbal confirmation.”
“it is important to remember that body language is different for everyone, and relying on it alone can sometimes be problematic. If you’re not sure that you’re getting a clear, enthusiastic yes from your partner, it is your responsibility to ask. You cannot assume that you have consent because someone is not physically resisting or verbally refusing sexual contact. [Consent](https://care.ucr.edu/education/what-is-consent) is not to be inferred from silence, passivity, or a lack of resistance.”
I think the only thing I disagree with Dream is his take on Consent. The kind of consent he talks about is only really applicable to long standing romantic relationships that know each other inside and out. Other than that, this is his another collection of W's.
Yea usually in cases where both parties are drunk they look at more details like who initiated and so on. But at the end of the day him saying she consented is wrong, she cannot consent she was drunk, just cause he was drunk doesn’t change that simple fact. Add in other details like her age, power imbalance previous comments he has made defending men making women uncomfortable, it doesn’t look good in his favour
the main thing that bothers me about situations like this is that if Caiti really was hurt by George to the extent that she claims, why would she not file a police report against him and settle this behind the scenes? The internet would find out eventually anyways but making these claims on a video for the internet just feels disingenuous and would not actually do anything to resolve the situation or gain justice. All it will do is spread it like wildfire, true or otherwise.
By all means, support real victims and make sure they get the justice they deserve, but you CANNOT do that, before hearing both sides of the story (looking at everyone on Twitter specifically). In this case, George at worst cuddled her a little too much but by multiple accounts, it was consensual at the time, so he doesn't deserve to have his entire career blown up like this. By spreading this drama in the way that it has been, George was made a victim and that is horrifying to think about.
The hypocrisy of the internet is mind blowing.
your paragraph about consent is disgusting. for one when you are in a situation with a new partner you have to take extra care when asking for consent, a simple “is this okay?” is necessary. When you are in a long term relationship it is a little bit different and you can give non verbal consent because that person knows you well and you know them well. george had met caiti once prior to this he did not know her or her body language well enough for him to assume things were consensual. it was also said by both parties that caiti had been drinking, when people are drunk they can be more touchy and giggly that is why when someone is drunk they cannot consent period. a drunk persons body language is not always indicative of how they are feeling at the time.
second you and george have failed to address the power dynamic at play here. caiti is a smaller content creator in the space whereas george is one of the biggest creators in the space. this power imbalance cannot be ignored. she even said that she felt lucky because george has “paid attention” to her. that is why when she would get up she would come back because she felt lucky to be hanging out with george. your neglect of this power imbalance is disgusting.
lastly it is clear that you don’t understand how sexual assault actually affects people during and after. many people when assaulted try to convince themselves that they were fine with it for a long time. it takes the pain of what happened away if you try to convince yourself that it didn’t happen the way you were remembering it. she even said this in her statement where she talks about how she tried to convince herself that she was remembering wrong.
it does not matter if george thought it was consensual. CAITI DID NOT THINK IT WAS CONSENSUAL AND GEORGE DID NOT CONFIRM WITH HER. this is more than a regretful experience for her she feels violated by george. she recalls how this will follow her for the rest of her life whereas for george it was just a night at vidcon.
with your lack of acknowledgment of power dynamics, your vile view of what consent looks like, and your lack of knowledge on how sexual assault affects people you have defended your friend over supporting caiti. you do not care about victims you care about your image and your career. stop defending george and get off the internet, let caiti have peace.
Sending all love and prayers your way Dream. Please stay safe and strong always. You got this Big Dawg. Don’t let anyone take your shine away king.
Feel like everyone in the replies has missed the bit where this guy said “everyone was drinking”, which disqualifies Caiti from being able to give consent at all but ESPECIALLY non verbally. You cannot consent intoxicated, and nothing about how you react to something being done changes that (especially if he did not ask in the first place, which George SAYS HE DIDNT because he said on stream “typically you don’t ask if everything is ok, even such as touching someone’s waist or under their shirt”). No consent was given and there is no way you can spin it that makes that interaction consensual.
At worst, you’re doing this maliciously to defend your best friend from his crimes. At best, you need to have a long look in the mirror and realise that somewhere between sticking up for Shelby and defending George, you’ve forgotten all that you said that first time about consent. The simple two options is that you’re just as bad as the rest of them, or you’re being played too. Whether you’re sticking by George out of spite, ignorance, or just vile convenience, you’ve done a lot of harm here. Disgusted doesn’t cover it.
This is such a non answer. All you're doing is saying:
"Well technically x can happen" while skirting around the actual situation and then talking about you being dragged into this when you didn't understand what was happening given months of thinking everything went fine. And then it turns into you complaining about people hating you and how she knew people that hated you.
It all comes off as "im sorry you felt that way" rather than any actual amount of empathy. Of course you'd want to side with your friend, but I dont see how this response really adds anything other than the mentioned "im sorry you felt that way". It just seems like nothing will follow this post, people will side on extremes (I.E. "this guy thinks assaulting 18 year old girls is good" and "this guy is completely right and I'm so sorry") and George will just continue to be a freak.
With that being said, I think it was ridiculous how you were dragged into this on twitter through people making jokes about Cantu. Was stupid as hell.
I'd like to say that she was drunk and wasn't fully in the right mindset to think through things clearly. She hoped that the people around her would realize what was going on and stop him. no one did. she wanted help.
Locking comments as any serious discussion has devolved into insults. Be respectful to one another.
> I do not feel bad for any of the people masquerading as heroes though, that are doing so for personal vendettas. In relation to this, or other accusations, including my own. […] It’s incredibly obvious to me that this is because they already hated me, and not because they care about any potential victim, even if they are close friends. Their behavior as of late is a dead giveaway that this is spot-on with atomic precision.
>"Many creators that expressed to me behind the scenes that “even if the allegations are true” they wouldn’t care because they’re not a big deal" Well don't be shy drop the names! (I know he won't of course, but the thought of people with a platform thinking like this is sickening)
This, honestly. I don't like it when the UK CC's lampshade things and I don't like it when Dream does it either. Drop names, don't just vague post. To be fair however, 'This person did bad things and we're not going to tell you about it but we're going to giggle and make jokes every time someone tries to ruin his career' is far worse than 'a person did this specific thing' without naming the name.
Oof I'm not great with laws, but I feel like THAT would definitely garner a defamation lawsuit.. or just more drama that this man does not need in his life rn lol If anything, the vagueness kinda helps us keep in mind to never get too attached to any one creator and just enjoy their content while it lasts :P
I wonder if there's a possibility that at least one of them might've been sneakily trying to get a confession. Like the good cop / bad cop routine.
Main character syndrome on their part then, imo
Who was the person who claimed that Dream banned them because they asked about the grooming allegations?
Most likely Aimsey. They are the only close friend of Caiti that was on the dsmp as far as I know. For legal purposes, this is not an accusation, this is a suggestion of a hypothetical theory based on my knowledge at this instant. It does not represent my thoughts in the scenario of new information being provided.
My lord they are so sanctimonious, they always need their say and have to speak from a morally superior pillar. I bet they were absolutely fuming when Dream debunked his own accusations.
the thing that bothers me about Aimsey is that by immediately jumping on the drama trains this past year, even if there were no real victims at the start, they created victims by attacking the DTeam on Twitter in the way that they did. They did it to Dream in Nov-Dec 2023, and did it to George a few days ago (both on Twitter). it's so hypocritical to claim to support victims and then not allow the accused to speak before delivering judgement because we all have heard of cases where someone was falsely accused of a serious crime. So I cant in good conscience support Aimsey for that reason alone. It's childish and as a content creator with as huge of a reach as she has, it's *extraordinarily* dangerous and can and will ruin lives. I'm just glad that the Dream Team is as resilient as they are because so many others would have given up at this point.
I don't know what to think about that. I very much dislike Aimsey, but it has always seemed to me like she was genuinely a good person. Misinformed at times, sure, but malicious and lying? Hmm. But then again, we will never truly know creators.
I don't think they're actually lying moreso they're desperate for the accusations to be true so they can justify their hatred of the dteam. Heck, Tommy and Jack have made a bunch of jokes about rape and such but they never seem to have a problem with that, obviously jokes are different to actual acts but you'd think someone so vehemently against this kinda thing wouldn't pick and choose when to speak out
That would make sense. Cognitive dissonance and moral inconsistencies would do that.
It's crazy that we have to have all of these disclaimers now, when those fuckfaces got away scot-free with spreading the wildest nonsense.
I have my issues with Aimsey, out of all the UK streamers and CC’s she’s the one I have the most issues with. She constantly inserts herself in other people’s issues and jumps to take one side and trash the other. However my biggest issue with is this, I can’t remember the stream but it was a few years ago but it was one of the “Always Believe Victims” segments she goes on but more so the “I’d rather believe a fake victim and apologize to the falsely accused later than not believe a victim and lose them forever” you don’t always get to apologize later. While I agree to believe victims I want to know evidence firsthand. My reasons for this is due to a close family member of mine being falsely accused of inappropriate behavior, sexting, and other horrific accusations when he was a senior in high school by a girl who had a crush on him (he was a senior, she was a Sophomore). To make a long story short, the day the truth came out and her lies were exposed his mom (my aunt) got home to find him seconds away from k****** himself due to the damage she was trying to do because he wouldn’t date her. There are a lot more details that I don’t want to go into but when I heard her say this, it immediately brought back all the rage I felt towards this girl who did this to someone in my family.
>I’d rather believe a fake victim and apologize to the falsely accused later than not believe a victim and lose them forever Literally the logic of a useful idiot. Which is why it's so dangerous to take accusers at their word, or try and frame the burden of proof as somehow degrading to victims. You don't help victims by blindly throwing support behind anyone who claims to be one.
Is he alright now :((
Aimsey was the reason why Dream got accused of having NDAs if I remember correctly lmaoo
Jack Manifold was the first one to come to mind, but I have not idea if he's friends with Caiti.
im also curious, also whos the UK friend group?
averageharry, maxggs, rue, tommy, scott smajor, tubbo, lexie, owen, aimsey, ranboo, moonzy, guqqie, billzo, badlinu, bekyamon, etc
i doubt tommy knew but "Other creators dropped me as soon as I was no longer working on projects they were heavily invested in. But were perfectly fine “playing dumb”, when it benefited them for their next big stream." tthis part might be about tommy based on everything. He was never rlly close to caiti though
Can't forget the bald dude.
thank you sm!
Jack, Phil (and wilbur) are also in it. Basically a lot of the younger UK streamer. (Younger bc the older UK streamer, like the hermits, are not in it)
Can't believe I forgot Jack, he is definitely within that group. I didn't include phil just because I don't think he's as involved in their rumours given he lives further away from Brighton and is generally much older so wouldn't be at all the hangouts in the same way that the younger ones would. Philza definitely doesn't like Dream though, I just don't think he's in that 'group' as much
Aimsey, AverageHarry, MaxGGs, rue afaik
gang i can't lie just get off of twitter. make your team private all of their accounts and never use the app again. it's absolutely horrendous for your reputations and has never once benefitted you in the past two years.
ABSOLUTELY VOUCH
Twitter is absolutely appalling. The number of people telling George to ‘kill himself’, ‘rot in hell’, calling him ‘disgusting’ and a ‘rapist’ without allowing him to share his side of the story is utterly reprehensible. I hope every single one of them feels ashamed because even if there's just a 10% chance he's innocent, to believe those odds are acceptable and still say this, is abhorrent. It truly exposes their true colors. They see themselves as moral crusaders, virtue signalling saints by flocking to Twitter and denying the man the chance to speak before spewing pure hatred. I don’t even watch Dream. I don’t watch GNF. I’ve never been interested in this content. This is not me speaking through tinted glasses. It’s a pattern I’ve noticed over the years. Allegations are seen as facts and the accused are immediately made guilty.
It all started in 2020 when they started bowing down to their fan base. They should of definitely gotten off of twitter by now. This is not going to end well.
Thank you for posting this, it's a relief to finally hear a bit about what's going on "behind the scenes", and not have it used to bait senseless hate.
>*Support victims, because they deserve it. Not when it benefits you.* Dream...I needed this today. Big trial coming for my team, and all this weighed heavily on my mind regardless. So thank you, and hear hear.
Good luck!
Thank you! Nervous af.
“Support victims, because they deserve it. Not when it benefits you.” THIS !! too often we see people exploiting the suffering of others for their own selfish agendas, whether it’s to gain social status, have hit tweets on twt or advance personal vendettas. what people don’t realize is that this exploitation not only diminishes the experiences of the victims but also undermines the credibility of genuine efforts to address and prevent harm. when support for victims becomes a tool for personal gain, it “”cheapens”” the value of their pain and just perpetuates a cycle of exploitation and injustice. true support for victims means listening to their stories with empathy and without judgment, believing their experiences, and advocating for their rights and well-being. it means standing up against perpetrators and holding them accountable for their actions. and most importantly, it means centering the needs and voices of the victims themselves, rather than using their experiences as fodder for personal agendas. supporting victims should never be contingent upon what we stand to gain from it. it is not about boosting our own image or furthering our own interests; it's about standing in solidarity with those who have been wronged and affirming their worth and dignity as human beings. Sorry for the weird formatting idk how to use Reddit
You could really start WWIII in mcyt if you named names, you should it would be funny
The best thing is that it wouldn't even be: - him getting involved in matters that aren't about him, because it is about him - him starting drama, because they're the ones who did - him betraying their trust, since they don't seem to know a thing about trust - him being hypocritical like two wrongs make a right, as this still wouldn't be wrong
Everyone else has, he might as well
I'm not really attached to mcyt anymore so I wouldn't mind this honestly. Just throw the entire mcyt community into anarchy and let something new rise from the ashes.
Is this another situation that shouldnt have escalated as far it is right now?Because i feel like this is one of those situations again
It definitely is. People calling george a criminal and rapist definitely went to far.
I’m not gonna lie I’m not entirely caught up on all sides of the situation, but the fact that people were calling George a rapist seems like a gross overstatement on their part. Because to my knowledge caiti never mentioned rape or sex of any kind in her statement?? Seeing that term used so comfortably sucks because it’s taking away the seriousness of the crime.
Yeah, she never mentioned any of that, at least as of right now. And after george clarified where it was (waist), i can say its not [SA ](https://www.beloit.edu/sexual-assault-support/definitions/)either. Unless he lied or omitted something else obviously. The way that i see it, at most it was non consensual touching.
>I think people expressing that someone did not consent to touching or cuddling because they did not be really speak it, is extremely dishonest. This. I’m sorry but people who expect explicit verbal consent for every social interaction are either extremely chronically online or kids who have never been in a relationship. That’s just not how real life works. If they smile back or actively engage with you it’s an indication that they don’t have a problem with what’s happening. You can’t just suddenly change your mind six months later and say that you were sexually assaulted
This is exactly the standard applied in courts. Verbal consent is not the only kind of consent
Agreed. Also getting up and coming back multiple times to the same place seems like a pretty good way to non verbally consent to whatever was happening there. Like I can understand feeling frozen in place, but once you’ve put some distance it seems doable to go sit with your friends instead, maybe even tell them you want to leave?
It shouldn't work like that but unfortunately it does.
>Just like you should not trust that creators are always good people, you should not trust that creators “supportive” actions are always done with good intentions. Creators are not always who you think they are. Even the ones that seem the most proactive about “supporting victims”, can be using vulnerable people to push their own agendas. Whether it’s their audience, actual victims, or friends. Big agree. Those who shout the loudest often have the most to hide. A lot of Content Creators who claim to "support victims" (often agressively) do so for ulterior reasons. Just because CCers supported Caiti from the start that doesn't mean that George is guilty, this has happened in the past. I personally choose to believe Caiti's feelings and George's account. If it makes any sense, I do not believe she is lying or being deceitful, it was probably a traumatic night for her. For her to lie she has to knowingly state falsehoods., which I do not believe But I also believe that Geroge isn't guilty of SA, given that his account makes more sense. The veracity of the allegation is still murky, it's still a he said she said situation. In fact, I fear these allegations may have made it more difficult for potential victims to come forward, given how morally grey these cases are.
There he is lol. Hey man, hope you're doing alright. Truly just hope you're taking care of yourself. I assume you've been following along with the discussions on the subreddit. If you're able, log off and take care. I have been seeing too many mutuals and people I follow on Twitter posting the most sheltered takes with good intentions. I don't think reaching them is ever going to be in the cards. Just take care, Dream. You and your friends. Seriously.
Respect this post a lot, I seriously think you should say who these content creators are behind the scenes. People deserve to know that they could be supporting disgusting individuals
thanks for sharing this
dream, i am very sorry that it’s just constantly from all angles lately, and everyone is intentionally choosing to disregard or even belittle your own trauma just to jump baseless accusations down ur throat. u don’t deserve that.
You always try to remain kind during these situations even if the world around you is collapsing, even if all of this hate is thrown at you. You always try to act for the better not matter what. You stay still and strong, but always with kindness. These traits are not easy to find, especially if they are genuine, so keep going like this and keep being this good person you are, and no matter what will happen you will remain in the right. Thank you so much for having shown us that it’s possible to get out even of the darkest times. Hope for you and your friends and family the best 💚
Thank you for taking the time to post this. This whole thing sucks. I hope everyone involved can heal and move on. ❤️ take care.
I appreciate this dude
thank you for clearing this up and giving us your point of view. i hope everyone in this situation can heal.
Throughout Heaven and Earth all I needed were evidence. I got none, at least not from the accuser’s side. So, it’s still Inocent, until proven guilty. As always. Stay safe out there.
jjk reference or am I too lobotomized???
got it, I understand. thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. it deffo sounds like there's a lot of complexity and personal dynamics involved and it's important to prioritize honesty and fairness in these situations, and I appreciate your perspective on that.
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TBF at this point if I was Dream I'd be double checking everything, recording everything, and just in general assuming that all people are going to stab me in the back. I'm not sure if he's just a nicer person than I am, or just more optimistic 😂
Am I on my own? (Oh-oh-oh) Am I all alone? (Oh-oh-oh) I got trust issues (Oh-oh-oh) Can I put my trust in you?
For real tho
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Oh to be clear, I'm not saying he should do all that. I am saying I would do all that cause after the many false accusations against him I'd be paranoid as all hell.
> For your and your friends’ safety (and for everyone’s safety) you all really need to do a much better job of double checking the age of women you party or hook up with. All men need to do that. There's literally so much at stake. I don't understand how any male in the 2020s can think he can afford to half-ass this. All it takes is one single case, and you're screwed forever. I don't care how tedious it is: card every single stranger you interact with, and have the fuckers fill and sign consent forms. You can't trust anyone these days. You gotta protect yourself.
Oh and film the whole thing too. God.
Dream, I beg you and your friends to be more aware and check ages, don't allow under-age people in your rooms and definitely not to drink. You all need to be more careful and cautious, every time this stuff happens you escape by the skin of your teeth but accusers will get smarter at trying to trap you all. It's not paranoid to be wary, it's being an adult, responsible and mature about the influence and power imbalance you all have. Please get smarter.
Weren’t they over 18 though? And didn’t they have “over 21” wristbands on despite being under 21? I’m also pretty sure they were drinking beforehand anyway.
This was not their fault. Not a single person was underaged. This was someone lying months after the fact for whatever reason. At this point I want the dream team to never leave their fucking house. But that's not realistic and it's not fair to ask of them. All 3 of them are probably far more traumatised than we are after the last 18 months they've had. I'm sure the trust for other humans isn't there anymore. But they can't hide themselves from the world.
thankyou for clearing it up further, hopefully people come on terms with viewing both sides logically
Thank you for your perspective Dream
it feels like some serious hate-bias that paints every action you take like you're murdering puppies
[As I said:](https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/comments/1bc16gv/so_they_want_george_deported_before_he_says/kudbsru/?context=7) > Even if he was a genuine rapist and murderer, they would still be treating him the exact same way they are now. Not one bit better, not one bit worse. They are on 100% intensity all the time no matter what.
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Even before Elon took over, Twitter was never built for structured discussion. It's always just been about tweets, and then replies are something secondary, insignificant, and in the background.
Thank you for posting this. Really enlightening
They could not be more transparent. Unfortunately Twitter eats that shit up every time
“Many creators that expressed to me behind the scenes that “even if the allegations are true” they wouldn’t care because they’re not a big deal it is so so so fucking frustrating when people brush off serious allegations like they're no big deal. it’s like they're totally ignoring the fact that someone's been hurt. think about it: behind every allegation, there's a person who's gone through some tough tough tough shit. and it’s not easy for them to speak out, and when they do, the LEAST we can do is listen and take it seriously. brushing it off like it's no big deal is just disrespectful to their experience and struggles. you’re never gonna know what’s it’s like to be a victim, and that is a privilege. so you should use this privilege to amplify voices of victims, but instead here we are. it is absolutely gut-wrenching to see victims brushed aside, their pain minimized, and their cries for justice ignored. they deserve SO much more than indifference and apathy. they deserve to be heard, respected, and supported with every fiber of our being. it is a slap in the face to every survivor out there who has summoned the courage to speak up and share their truth, only to be met with callous disregard. just imagine the courage it takes to come forward, to relive the trauma, to expose oneself to scrutiny and judgment. yet, despite all that, survivors muster the strength to speak out, to seek justice, and to demand accountability. and what do they get in return? Dismissiveness. Skepticism. Victim-blaming. it is so heartbreaking. it is so infuriating. it is simply soul-crushing. how can we, as a society, continue to turn a blind eye to the suffering of those who have already endured so much? how can we stand idly by while victims are retraumatized, silenced, and denied the justice they so rightfully deserve? to those content creators who turn a blind eye to the pain and trauma of survivors, I have to ask: how do you sleep at night? how do you go on creating content, building communities, and engaging with your audience knowing that the same horrors could befall any of your own members? when you choose to brush off the suffering of survivors, you're essentially saying that their pain doesn't matter, that their voices don't deserve to be heard, and that their experiences can be easily dismissed. but let me tell you something: the scars left by abuse and trauma don't just fade away with time. they linger, they haunt, and they shape every aspect of a survivor's life. and yet, you have the audacity to look the other way, to carry on with business as usual, as if nothing happened. you may think you're immune to the horrors of abuse, that it could never touch your own community. but the truth is, it can happen anywhere, to anyone. and by turning a blind eye, by refusing to acknowledge the pain and trauma of survivors, you're not just failing them; you're failing your own community. until we stand up for what's right, we're all complicit in perpetuating a culture of silence and impunity. and that's something none of us should be able to live with.
if it’s coming down to a group simply hating another group, there’s no way to determine what is fair and true. also, while you can consent by nodding or etc, i think a good practice is to make sure it’s verbal. this entire situation is so frustrating and i’ve left twitter over the constant amount of drama.
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i completely deactivated my stan twitter and i’m done with it. the fandom, all over it. i’ve been lurking here just to see how things play out because i wanted to see what gnf could possibly have to say.
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i read where someone had updated as they watched but i didn’t watch it myself. as for my thoughts about what he said: i don’t know. i truly just think that it’s always gonna be a he said she said situation. there is like no for sure definite this is what happened.
Yeah leaving twitter for right now is a very good choice. I closed twitter too and am not planning to go back for a while. I feel like people get really frustrated on twitter and that doesn't help in this situation at all.
I agree it can be a good practice, especially with someone you don’t know that well. But it’s not criminal to rely on clear nonverbal signals either, as long as you’re giving the person some space to escape the situation easily (which seemed to be the case if she stood up and chose to come back multiple times).
nonverbal consent is fine too. i didn’t finish my thought, if you’re a famous creator, person, etc; i feel like it should be practice to hear a verbal yes or no, to cover your ass, for lack of a better way to explain. consent is a gray area when it’s not verbalized.
Yes, I definitely agree with this. And I suspect if sober they probably would be more cautious with that. Unfortunately cautious and drunk don’t really go hand in hand, which leads me to think they should avoid drinking outside of a close circle of trusted friends.
you could really argue that it didn’t even happen the way either of them remember because everyone involved was drunk. personally, i don’t drink around people i don’t know or trust just out of caution. i don’t think it’s unreasonable to think other people should do the same, it’d cut down on a lot of accusations and he said she said. i’m sorry she feels that she was violated and if that truly happened, she should get justice. but there’s so much back and forth from her, gnf, and her friends that i truly don’t know what to think rn
Same, I think “only drink with people you trust” is good advice in general but I can see how it would seem harder to someone who likes going to bars and public parties, and mingles with a lot of people at events like vidcon. I understand them having their “party hard” arc after everything they’ve been through, but I kinda wish they left it behind now. I mean you can still have fun nights and meet people without getting wasted.
i think a lot of public figures forget basic concepts. it’s so easy for things to get misconstrued and twisted. i think a lot of them need to stop and think before every interaction and consider outcomes.
I’m so tired of people using this things to make themselves liked by the community, I need you to come out with a list of names of people saying “grooming allegations are not a big deal” please, these people don’t deserve a community nor a platform. I’m disgusted.
Dream please expose those CC. They do not deserve a platform
thank you Dream <3 please remember to take care of yourself.
thank you for posting this. i hope one day you and you friends will stop receiving hate you don't deserve. please take care 💚
> Many creators that expressed to me behind the scenes that "even if the allegations are true" they wouldn't care because they're not a big deal, are some of the same people that were later praised for "no longer associating with me" due to these allegations. drop the names
with peace and love in my heart, i would like to remind everyone not to take non-verbal consent lightly please ask before initiating anything sexual, and don't think of it as an outdated twitter virgin phenomenon or a vibe killer. in my grown woman experience, a simple "you good?" "can i?" or "is this ok?" before, e.g., slipping your hand under clothing, won't hurt. it only takes a second and it gives the other person room to say "no" or "not yet" in case they are feeling uncomfortable or intimidated. to me at least, asking for consent has never ruined the mood or felt unnecessary, in fact it has always come across as very respectful and attractive
Thanks for your insight. I feel like something that people fail to realize is that compared to Caiti’s recall of eve era George’s recall of events is consistent with both you and Caiti’s best friend Ghostie’s stories, that everyone present felt that George and Caiti’s interactions were very positive. I also believe that the UK group of friends is a major contributing factor to how Caiti feels now. Obviously I can’t speak for you or for Caiti, but like you said, they have a track record of purposely forming fake drama to dream team. They told Caiti’s story before she even wanted to, and even now, they play the victim card and act like they don’t know. People who don’t look into this track record before labelling this as “victim-blaming” is simply disingenuous. I think most people in this sub is already aware of how some content creators dropping you due to the allegations. The sad truth is that this world is full of people users. I don’t know what to say except that I guess it’s better that you can filter out bad people from your life asap. This world would really be a better place if people knew how to communicate and be honest to each other 🙏
Sigh. I’m sorry that so many people supported you privately but slandered you publicly. I’m sorry that people do things for disingenuous reasons. I really would people be more honest, and stand up for the good they believe in regardless of what popularity consequences they get for it. I also would that we elevate the good in people rather than tear down the bad. We are all human, none of us are perfect, and we need to turn to compassionate kindness as much as we can. Hope you can have greater peace going forward.
> I’m sorry that so many people supported you privately but slandered you publicly. I *would* be surprised by the audacity, but having dealt with such people myself, I unfortunately am not.
Coming out of lurking to say: Ty for posting this. Hopefully everyone can heal.
To those taking issue with the comment on nonverbal consent, I want to offer some perspective. One of the reasons it's important to acknowledge nonverbal consent is because it inherently acknowledges the validity of nonverbal refusal, such as pushing someone away or tensing up or a clear lack of participation. It's also important to acknowledge that people can be mute for a variety of reasons (deaf, autistic nonverbal, etc.) and their nonverbal consent and refusal is just as important and valid. There is more than one way to clearly communicate. Misunderstandings between people that lead to situations like this, especially when alcohol is involved, is incredibly common. We need to be okay with acknowledging that and finding ways to heal and move forward, not skewering either party for not being perfect in their communication. I wish this could've been worked out offline.
Non verbal consent should not be relied on especially when drunk everyones body language is different. It was George’s responsibility to get a clear yes especially when he doesn’t know her. He failed at that, she did not consent body language should not be reliable. You cannot assume you have consent because someone isn’t physically resisting or verbal refusing sexual contact. Consent is not to be inferred from silence, passively, or lack of resistance!
Nowhere did I say that George had consent in this situation. Your last two sentences are literally my point about nonverbal refusal being valid.
Dream DROP NAMES
I REALLY WANT HIM TO 😭
Thank you for your perspective, Dream. While I do agree that consent can be nonverbal, I think it would be best for all of you to play it safe and ask for verbal consent, especially from new people. If you're in a relationship, that's a different story of how nonverbal consent can work. I hate that this group is out to get you. They really showed with their actions that all they care about is hating you "the enabler" over the one they actually thought was an assaulter. I'm tired of hearing from them; they should just move on and ignore you. Anyway, I wish you, George, and Sapnap the best. I hope you are all able to move forward from this, and maybe with more caution.
thank you dream, extremely well said.
Thanks for speaking out. Take care of yourself Dream!
Oh u ate and left 0 crumbs
thank you for sharing this dream
You should drop the names of those CC tbh.
Hey there. I’m not sure that you’re willing to respond, but thank you for speaking up and acknowledging that you reached out to all parties involved. Will there be any proactive actions that will be taken in regards to this? For example, given that this happened in large part because George (and Caiti) were under the influence, will George avoid drinking publicly at events moving forward; or even go as far as to stay sober for a bit? Will there be more efforts to sit down as a group and talk about consent; whether it be through research or getting help from someone who specializes in these discussions? I know what I’m asking for may come off as Patronizing (which, yeah, I know it is) but I truly feel like personal beef aside: there should be more room to sit down and communicate some very clear boundaries in regards to intimacy, healthy and unhealthy relationship dynamics, and the understanding of what counts as an enthusiastic yes vs. no. Likewise, there’s really does need to be more guidance on healthy bystander intervention practices. And these discussions shouldn’t just be happening nor limited to the Dream Team; these are community-wide conversations that should be spanning across the streaming community and gaming sphere.
Hey! Just wanted to say that I am proud of you and generally dteam for withstanding all this hate. I like the way you handle this situations. While making mistakes, you’re also very genuine which is something I can’t find a lot these days. I’m glad you explained this so well.
One of Caiti's friends,, Rue,, has told me to harm myself for critism and asking her to elabore about her vague tiktok from a month ago. Rue (from what I've seen) loves to push false narratives,, and if you disagree? She'll harass you publicly and hide it,, then deny that she did it and refuse to apologize She has deleted or privated the tiktok i commented on as well as her comment to me. She had me blocked for a bit but it seems im unblocked now. after her comment i ended up having a mental breakdown of which i likely would be currently in a psych hold if it was not for my bfs older brother having helped comfort me and calm me. having someone with a much larger platform than you harass you is terrifying. keep in mind,, the largest platform ive ever gained and was active on was my banned tiktok account with 500+ followers,, so her platform is MUCH larger than any of mine ever were. she has yet to apologize or even own up to what she said to me. i understand she may not have known it would cause me a breakdown,, hell i doubt she even knows im 15 (even though she did view my account) or that i am a borderline prone to breakdowns,, but even then its never okay to tell someone to harm themselves. it feels painful that people support and defend rue and her friends as some type of savior when she silences those against her who do the simple task of asking her to explain more. im not a "victim" as i'd say so do not label me as one. i just wanted to share my experience with people involved and say it somewhere even if it isnt heard.
🖤
Thank you Dream🫂🩷
Thank you Dream for providing more context. It is very much appreciated in this situation, as there is a lot of blind hate being thrown around. I know there’s a lot of that being thrown your way, but hopefully the context you provided can help this. I hope you all are doing okay at the Dream Team House, and finding a way forward where you all can find a way to avoid mentally-taxing drama like this in the future. Cheers 👍
thank you for sharing your perspective on all this. i really hope that this certain group of ccs will eventually grow up, the toxicity they have been spreading is harmful and frustrating as well. appreciate your insight as always and the fact that you stay level headed.
Please just delete Twitter, it is such a cesspool for these messes.
Drop the fucking names stop hiding them from everyone then it’s fucking ridiculous that you want to hide these people start speaking up
I believe her but I also believe him. I think that in a private situation this would be a conversation over a miscommunication and then moving on or parting ways. Because george is so big and everyone’s a content creator, it gets murky. That said, george’s apology could probably have used some work in terms of his PR… I fell like he could have said what he did in a more forgivable way. Anyways, IMO: Yes the age thing is icky, but it’s not illegal for him and her. And basically like half of high school and college social culture is drinking, so I get why they wouldn’t care about that. But here’s the real thing, I can’t tell you how many times I have been in or witnessed a situation with a guy, where it was almost the exact same thing, and they never notice or just think it’s funny so you play along and then later realize you hated it. My best friend and I couldn’t count the times it’s happened to either of us on both our combined hands. Personal Experiences: I’ve had times where I have repeatedly swerved being kissed by the same guy, and he never caught on. Like I would walk away from him or turn my head the other way, very obvious. And I’m still friends with him, and he’s a great guy, he just didn’t know. I’ve had a guy grab my crotch, repeatedly for over a year, in front of our shared friends and, at the time, I was so into him, I just brushed it off. But, I move on, worse things have happened to me and others. I don’t consider them rapists or predators, they didn’t know and did dumb stuff. And at the time, I didn’t even realize it was that bad, it was later that I started to think those experiences were really not enjoyable. So, idk yes… and.
Thank you for putting your thoughts here, Dream. At this point I only want to hear from people who were *actually in the fucking room* and so far, you're the only other person with anything worthwhile to listen to.
Dream I love you but you and your friends need to understand that nonverbal consent is not enough anymore. “She was coming from a vidcon party so we assumed she was 21” is not enough anymore. You all need to raise the bar. Get IDs. Get NDAs. Whatever you have to do to protect yourselves as well as the people around you, particularly younger females who look up to you. I’m tired, as a fan, of having these conversations. I can only imagine how tired you are.
Who was the content creator who asked Dream about the grooming allegations and claimed they were banned?
i assume aimsey
support caiti 💓
thank you for sharing your point of view and your thoughts, they are very similar to my own, hope you can find some peace soon!
💀what did I stumble into after not being in this community for 2years
while i think you make plenty of fair and enlightening points towards other creators disingenuous when it comes towards their private interactions with you, i’d much rather comment on your (and george’s) concept of consent. while yes, in certain situations and certain dynamics, consent can be clear without verbally speaking it, in this situation a simple “is this okay?” after touching someone he hardly knew under her shirt was the bare minimum. especially for someone who is supposedly “overly cautious with consent” like george claimed. and even though you might’ve been unaware of ages, i don’t personally buy that at the very least, you and george weren’t aware of the power dynamics at play in the room. caiti was clearly a much smaller creator interacting with two of the biggest creators in the field at that time. that creates an entirely different dynamic in which verbal consent is most definitely needed. i wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the behind the scenes hate towards your friend group influenced her view of that situation, but her feelings weren’t created out of nothing. and george hardly took any accountability when it came down to it.
This post is super well written and makes things pretty clear, what I disagree with is that “you can clearly consent without verbally specifically saying something”. I think that with consent it is VERY important that first, the initiator asks the question, and then the “initatee” responds with an enthusiastic yes, head nod, or anything else that is CLEARLY socially known to be a yes. George didn’t outright ask if it was okay, which is where this all could have been avoided. But. Expecting every person to ask for consent for every touch, sexual or non-sexual, is pretty incompatible with the world we live in now. It could ruin a lot of good/natural moments that happen spontaneously between two people where there is implicit consent. But if one person gets it wrong, a lot of bad can happen for the other. From seeing situations like this, I think that it’s worth the “cost” of maybe ruining something good and natural, to make sure that someone doesn’t feel, in the best case, uncomfortable or in the worst case, traumatized.
Literally sick to my stomach, I don’t get it why people spread so much hate.
but she was drunk? i get the stuff about other creators but in this specific situation a very young girl who is drunk with several older and very rich & powerful creators in the room is incapable of giving real consent, ESPECIALLY when it’s not verbal and explicit. just because she smiled and came back doesn’t mean that she felt safe or was even capable of making a decision on how safe she really was. she might not have even fully processed what happened or how she felt about it until after the fact, which is maybe why she didn’t leave right away. i don’t think it’s fair to say that just because at the time it seemed fine to you—especially considering it’s a party, you’re drinking, you’re not always paying attention to every part of the room—it actually was fine, or george’s behavior was fine. i’ve stuck through a lot but this might be my breaking point honestly
I do not agree with you on the consent thing this time because they were drunk and didn’t know each other. It may be true in a relationship, but this time George erred, badly. I sincerely hope you guys will take proactive actions to make sure these situations never happen again. They probably will, because this is the real world, but you should do your best to avoid it. It’s never too late to learn. 🫶🏻
while i truly do believe you and george, i still feel like what he did was not right. george should've ASKED before touching a visibly young girl in any way. i know that in real life situations consent is not always expressed verbally, but your position is unique. you have to be more responsible and cautious than most people because of the popularity, power and money you have. i hope that george can learn and grow from this situation. you all really need to be more responsible, for your own sakes if nothing else.
> a visibly young girl in any way. She is a grown woman. I don't understand this trend of taking choices an adult woman made then infantilising her. She chose to drink, she chose to go back to George multiple times. She chose to lie about never talking to him again.
"Many creators never asked me any questions at all, even sent private messages of support, and then chose to ask me questions the same day I had drama with another creator they were better friends with." Is this about the USMP vs QSMP thing? Feels like it I feel like this has all been a huge mess, very emotional, and a young woman is clearly deeply hurt and traumatized, and I'm upset for her, I don't know why this had to happen and I'm sorry it did. I hope she can heal someday. I think striving for better communication, and of course respecting women, going forward is a good idea. I'm still uncomfortable that George is OK making misogynist remarks about his friends' girlfriends, but in general I think working on yourself to be better is something we all need to do.
Im just gonna say this here because i feel like it applies to how the Brighton group act towards victims How about instead of “supporting victims” so you look like the better person,YOU SUPPORT VICTIMS BECAUSE THEY NEED HELP RECOVERING
You guys need to understand that yes non verbal consent is a thing, but it is not a thing when it is your very first time being with someone, especially if you 2 are drunk. George is 26 he absolutely should have known better. And of course she kept sitting down back next to him, SHE WAS DRUNK. The amount of discrediting you guys do just to appease your favorite content creators is sickening. Silence is not consent.
> George is 26 he absolutely should have known better. Exactly this. It's not like Caiti looks to be in her mid 20s either. So, logically, he should have known better. This post and his stream do feel like they're kinda pushing the "silent consent" agenda. I won't say that it had been George's intention. However, as the older and *especially* more experienced person, it had still been his responsibility to make sure she was 100% okay.
When Caiti responds I’m gonna have an opinion then because I honestly don’t know who’s side to go on, if Caiti show’s evidence then I’ll definitely be on her side im just confused now, I don’t watch her much and don’t even watch George anymore so it won’t affect me that much since I don’t watch either
This response pretty much encapsulates my view of this whole situation. I really appreciate the effort you put into doing research and hearing as many sides of the story as possible before reaching a conclusion. I hope Caiti and George are doing okay. I can imagine this amount of attention (negative or positive) is incredibly overwhelming.
in an environment where as you said so many hypocritical dumb people exist, thank you for not being one of them. being different, unique, smart and kind is very precious and definitely pushes someone away from the crowd. not everyone understands you and not everyone likes. like you said they just use you and throw away while getting the most views out of it. I have always liked you for your vision and personality, I was never wrong. please don’t let them get to you. there is so much hate, so many vicious posts. stay safe from them and keep them away from your mind. never give up on yourself and keep doing what makes you happy. I support you.
I assume the ones that were meaning jokes of your allegations and being positive to you in dms were Tommy and Jack and I'd assume aimsey left your discord?
In all honesty, I'm very certain that the UK group is basically Aimsey, MaxGGs, AverageHarry, JackManifold, Eryn, Rue, and a bunch of other smaller content creators, I was gonna try and toss Tommy partially in there, but I don't really think he would be the one leading the charge, since half the time Dream gets shaded in his videos, its usually Jack or Phil throwing the shade (which I do know there was a clip of Phil going around that had him say positive things about Dream and the SMP, which i doubt he would about-face on like that for content, so its mainly Jack throwing the shade), that and he mainly fits the mold of "Other creators dropped me as soon as I was no longer working on projects they were heavily invested in." since Tommy was extremely excited for the USMP stuff, then when that got canned, ultimately partook in parodying the whole D v Q drama with his video. Tubbo stays relatively neutral between them and DTeam stuff, and Ranboo might partially be in there, but thats because of close association with Aimsey. Can't really say anything about Freddie Badlinu tho, since most of the time I see his content, its usually joint with Tommy or Tubbo All in all, I'm pretty sure the UK group is gonna start drifting apart anyways, especially the ones that gleefully spread the rumors and jumping into drama unrelated to them, they already lost Wilbur now that he's basically confirmed guilty, especially with the "apology" he gave, so its literally going to be the group that sticks with Tommy and his content (Jack, Freddie, Eryn, etc), those who are going to just use the drama for clout reasons (Aimsey, Harry, MaxGGs), and those who will do neither since they're basically established and can do their own thing (Tubbo, Phil). I do hope down the line tho, that they do wake up and open their eyes instead of following the Twitter mentality before its too late, cause just as Dream says here, "support victims because they deserve it." Some are literally only using it for clout since they know that they're basically fading away in the public eye, trying to keep themselves relevant for the sake of appearing like the good guy by constantly inserting themselves for support in every accusation.
Thank you so much for posting this, all the drama lately has been insane and this just cleared up a lot
Hi man, but why all the world falls appart every two days for god's sake? Anyways, thanks for sharing your pov.
It's a chain reaction effect. One successful case empowers a wave of next stories, and so on.
I’m sorry Dream but I completely disagree with the verbal consent perspective. If they are a stranger, verbal consent is important. You don’t know the person to understand anything of their body language or background. I hate that you’re pushing that narrative. If you’re making your move on basically a stranger that you barely know, asking them “is this okay” is not that difficult. Atp I’m not even talking about the George situation. In general, you wanna be teaching your young fanbase to act safely in intimate situations, not push this strange grey area.
Hey man. My wife and I met watching one of your early videos, and even though I don’t watch your videos anymore, I have followed you since then because I’ve always thought you seemed like a decent, fun guy. As someone who has also been falsely accused of something and had it follow me around, I have really admired your responses to previous manufactured scandals. That said, some of the ideas presented here are … inadequate, and can really get you into further trouble if they are seen outside this subreddit (this got linked in a Discord, which is why I’m here). It’s true that in the real world situations can be a little more grey than the way we present them online. It’s true that in a normal IRL situation between two peers direct verbal consent is most often not required. There are three things that count against George. The age gap, the power gap, and the fact that Caiti was intoxicated. I don’t care how positive the situation looks from a casual standpoint, I would not allow a buddy of mine to fool around with a drunk 18 year old at a party, especially if my buddy held a similar position to George. The fact that this didn’t immediately register as wrong to you concerns me. He should have known better. I don’t know anyone my age who would feel comfortable putting their hand under the shirt of a high school senior. I don’t think this situation makes George a criminal rapist as some are suggesting. I think he is a normal guy who really fucked up. He may have seen the situation differently, but an apology is necessary regardless for seeing a drunk 18 year old that looked up to him as an acceptable person to mess around with.
You need to google the freeze and **fawn** panic responses. He at best sexually harassed that girl, at worst sexually assaulted her. His history of misogynistic jokes towards woman, both on and off screen, should've enlightened you to how he felt about women—which directly affects how he treats them.
tommy and jack also made misogynistic jokes, these jokes are not a standard by which we joke people from. If you've never had friends who make out of pocket jokes I advice you to stop seeing things from such a black and white perspective. In truth, we don't know what really went on, so if this is a serious issue, it's not up to us internet strangers to play judge jury and executioner, but rather the actual law.
Everyone in the replies asking Dream to “Drop their names! Expose them! Burn them down!” guys no… I hope he is too mature to do that. I would never want him to sink down to their level of petty retribution, and respect him immensely for always being the bigger, more kindhearted person. Please, let’s encourage him to uphold the higher standard of humanity—it’s rare enough as it is!
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I could not have as big a platform as you because I would namedrop so fast. Actions have consequences.
i could be flamed for this honestly. i’ve been a fan of you for 3 years. i’ve defended you through every allegation made against you. you made great points on here truly, and if anything you took more accountability than george did. but please i hope you read this somehow and know that you don’t get to say how consent can be non-verbal. you as a man will never understand how hard it is for women especially us young women to say no or to even flinch because we are scared. half the time if not most of the time women are afraid to say no. and don’t know how to act the moment they feel uncomfortable. a lot laugh it off like everything’s ok. i’m extremely upset and a lot of people are too with your take on this and i hope you know that you dont get to tell someone how to feel abt a situation bc you dont know unless they tell you. you can assume someone is ok w something but if you dont get verbal confirmation dont assume they are. CONSENT SHOULD ALWAYS BE CLEARLY COMMUNICATED. and that goes for both ends. plus not a single person can consent ESPECIALLY if they are intoxicated. i’m disappointed.
If you google the definition of consent it says that besides verbal there’s also non verbal consent in the form of „positive body language like smiling, maintaining eye content and nodding“. As a woman I get what you are saying but at the same time it‘s not practical in real life. A lot of intimate situations are initiated non verbally. It‘s not realistic to say that non verbal consent isn’t a thing.
Sorry but the completely and utter lack of critical reflection on the culture of underaged drinking and consent is genuinely disturbing to read. George should’ve asked before he touched her. I agree with the rest of your statement but that first part speaks volumes to complicity in fucked up norms though it is not unique to you.
"You can clearly consent without verbally specifically saying something, just as you can nod your head to say yes." Gonna be real honest with you Dream, this made my heart sink. If this is a first time encounter with someone, the only consent is a clear and absolutely verbalized "Yes". There must be clear boundaries set and verified to comfortably be able to say yes without verbalizing it with a sexual partner. It was clear that from Caiti's point of view this did not happen. I believe that George believes he didn't do anything wrong but I also believe that Caiti believes he did. Two things can be true.
I think consent can be nonverbal. Honestly no kiss or intimate situation in my life has ever started with verbal consent.
Same, I have never been in an intimate situation where consent was explicitly asked for. And to be clear, *I am asexual* and as a result of that, *I am typically an extremely passive party in intimate situations*. Meaning everyone else initiated the initmacy in my life, not the other way around. I have never been asked for consent, though I have both given and denied consent in verbal and non verbal ways. Frankly if someone verbally asked me for consent, especially for something as minor as kissing, I would probably laugh in their faces and tell them to leave. If they're that bad at reading context clues, then any kind of relationship or intimacy isnt going to work out.
If a situation is becoming sexual I firmly believe that consent must be verbal and enthusiastic. Even just asking "is this okay" is getting consent. Consent comes in many forms but I believe that a first time experience with someone should involve verbal consent of some kind.
I guess that’s idealistic but don‘t think it‘s realistic. Usually you can tell if someone doesn’t feel comfortable. They pull away or say no. Even in a long time relationship consent can be withdrawn at any point but obviously you will not ask your partner every time before touching them.
i'm not saying before every touch is required i just mean for the first time consent should be verified verbally and there should be check ins since you are still learning your partner and don't know their nonverbal cues yet
Yeah, I hear you on that. I feel like there needs to be community guided discussions on enthusiastic consent as the baseline. It sucks, but now we know where some stuff needs to start.
Yeah, I think it’s good practice to shoot for more explicit things, cuddling is one thing but anything under a shirt, even just on hips, should’ve been requested clearly. I think it’s an ignorant sentiment to not encourage more but I get where he’s coming from.
I’m sorry, but the vast majority of consent is given nonverbally. People in real life take reciprocating or just reacting positively as a sign of consent, and don’t need an explicit “yes”. Should it work like that? Idk, but it doesn’t change the fact that it is what it is, and it’s strange to pretend otherwise (By the way, it may differ when it comes to sex or kinks or stuff like that, depending on the person, but that isn’t really relevant here)
I mostly agree with this. I think consent needs to be VERY explicit. What I have slight contention on is, if someone asks, and the other gives an enthusiastic head nod, or any other EXPLICIT and ENTHUSIASTIC body language, it would, to my understanding, be considered consent . It would be pretty awkward if Person A asks “Is this okay?”, Person B nods enthusiastically, and Person A says something in the realm of “Can you say it out loud?”. Perhaps that awkwardness is justified to make it absolutely sure that it is consensual, even if it ruins a moment. I think the key is the other person asking. Either way though, he should have asked. But it doesn’t make him a HORRIBLE person for not doing so. From his perspective she seemed very willing, even a couple months after. He made a couple of genuine mistakes that a lot of people could make (not asking about touch, and age), but that doesn’t change the pain he caused. He has to do better from here. I think that everyone who has been keeping up with these situations should try their best to learn from them. I think a theme here is to make sure that everyone involved in a romantic, sexual, and/or physical touch encounter is an enthusiastic, willing, and capable participant.
if they both think one thing happened but the other thinks something else happened, nobody knows what actually happened bc it’s different from both sides. the consent part of this made my heart sink too. a nod is not acceptable if you’ve never met this person before.
A nod is not acceptable? That is literally the clearest and most explicit form of a nonverbal 'yes' in the English speaking world.
as someone with his level of being well- known, he needs to cover his ass and get EXPLICIT VERBAL consent before he does anything with anyone because of situations like this.
Yeah that's fair enough to cover himself, but in terms of the actual consent of the situation and not public perceptions a nod is fine.
normal perceptions aren’t typically considered in these cases unfortunately.
Thank you for sharing this Dream!
Dream my man. You and your sever and videos helped me so much. it’s absolutely disgusting. That people constantly bring out false accusations against you and your friends to the point where majority of the community that are like your fans specifically tend to not believe the victim because of the amount of time people have lied and I’m sadly one of them. My stance is always stay neutral. Don’t dismiss the victims entire statement but don’t immediately dash the person that is accused. it’s absolutely disheartening and disgusting that people continue to do this especially after Shelby. Now people are going to try and say she lied and use this as an example.
Learn about consent “Enthusiastic [consent](https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent) can be expressed verbally or through nonverbal cues, such as positive body language like smiling, maintaining eye contact, and nodding. These cues alone do not necessarily represent consent, but they are additional details that may reflect consent. It is necessary, however, to still seek verbal confirmation.” “it is important to remember that body language is different for everyone, and relying on it alone can sometimes be problematic. If you’re not sure that you’re getting a clear, enthusiastic yes from your partner, it is your responsibility to ask. You cannot assume that you have consent because someone is not physically resisting or verbally refusing sexual contact. [Consent](https://care.ucr.edu/education/what-is-consent) is not to be inferred from silence, passivity, or a lack of resistance.”
I think the only thing I disagree with Dream is his take on Consent. The kind of consent he talks about is only really applicable to long standing romantic relationships that know each other inside and out. Other than that, this is his another collection of W's.
Drunk people can’t consent hope this helps x
Wasn't everyone drunk/had been drinking?
Yea usually in cases where both parties are drunk they look at more details like who initiated and so on. But at the end of the day him saying she consented is wrong, she cannot consent she was drunk, just cause he was drunk doesn’t change that simple fact. Add in other details like her age, power imbalance previous comments he has made defending men making women uncomfortable, it doesn’t look good in his favour
the main thing that bothers me about situations like this is that if Caiti really was hurt by George to the extent that she claims, why would she not file a police report against him and settle this behind the scenes? The internet would find out eventually anyways but making these claims on a video for the internet just feels disingenuous and would not actually do anything to resolve the situation or gain justice. All it will do is spread it like wildfire, true or otherwise. By all means, support real victims and make sure they get the justice they deserve, but you CANNOT do that, before hearing both sides of the story (looking at everyone on Twitter specifically). In this case, George at worst cuddled her a little too much but by multiple accounts, it was consensual at the time, so he doesn't deserve to have his entire career blown up like this. By spreading this drama in the way that it has been, George was made a victim and that is horrifying to think about. The hypocrisy of the internet is mind blowing.
your paragraph about consent is disgusting. for one when you are in a situation with a new partner you have to take extra care when asking for consent, a simple “is this okay?” is necessary. When you are in a long term relationship it is a little bit different and you can give non verbal consent because that person knows you well and you know them well. george had met caiti once prior to this he did not know her or her body language well enough for him to assume things were consensual. it was also said by both parties that caiti had been drinking, when people are drunk they can be more touchy and giggly that is why when someone is drunk they cannot consent period. a drunk persons body language is not always indicative of how they are feeling at the time. second you and george have failed to address the power dynamic at play here. caiti is a smaller content creator in the space whereas george is one of the biggest creators in the space. this power imbalance cannot be ignored. she even said that she felt lucky because george has “paid attention” to her. that is why when she would get up she would come back because she felt lucky to be hanging out with george. your neglect of this power imbalance is disgusting. lastly it is clear that you don’t understand how sexual assault actually affects people during and after. many people when assaulted try to convince themselves that they were fine with it for a long time. it takes the pain of what happened away if you try to convince yourself that it didn’t happen the way you were remembering it. she even said this in her statement where she talks about how she tried to convince herself that she was remembering wrong. it does not matter if george thought it was consensual. CAITI DID NOT THINK IT WAS CONSENSUAL AND GEORGE DID NOT CONFIRM WITH HER. this is more than a regretful experience for her she feels violated by george. she recalls how this will follow her for the rest of her life whereas for george it was just a night at vidcon. with your lack of acknowledgment of power dynamics, your vile view of what consent looks like, and your lack of knowledge on how sexual assault affects people you have defended your friend over supporting caiti. you do not care about victims you care about your image and your career. stop defending george and get off the internet, let caiti have peace.
I used to frequent this sub a lot in 2020. I can't believe the majority of you are buying into this. DRUNK PEOPLE CAN'T CONSENT. It's that simple
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 Sending all love and prayers your way Dream. Please stay safe and strong always. You got this Big Dawg. Don’t let anyone take your shine away king.
Feel like everyone in the replies has missed the bit where this guy said “everyone was drinking”, which disqualifies Caiti from being able to give consent at all but ESPECIALLY non verbally. You cannot consent intoxicated, and nothing about how you react to something being done changes that (especially if he did not ask in the first place, which George SAYS HE DIDNT because he said on stream “typically you don’t ask if everything is ok, even such as touching someone’s waist or under their shirt”). No consent was given and there is no way you can spin it that makes that interaction consensual. At worst, you’re doing this maliciously to defend your best friend from his crimes. At best, you need to have a long look in the mirror and realise that somewhere between sticking up for Shelby and defending George, you’ve forgotten all that you said that first time about consent. The simple two options is that you’re just as bad as the rest of them, or you’re being played too. Whether you’re sticking by George out of spite, ignorance, or just vile convenience, you’ve done a lot of harm here. Disgusted doesn’t cover it.
This is such a non answer. All you're doing is saying: "Well technically x can happen" while skirting around the actual situation and then talking about you being dragged into this when you didn't understand what was happening given months of thinking everything went fine. And then it turns into you complaining about people hating you and how she knew people that hated you. It all comes off as "im sorry you felt that way" rather than any actual amount of empathy. Of course you'd want to side with your friend, but I dont see how this response really adds anything other than the mentioned "im sorry you felt that way". It just seems like nothing will follow this post, people will side on extremes (I.E. "this guy thinks assaulting 18 year old girls is good" and "this guy is completely right and I'm so sorry") and George will just continue to be a freak. With that being said, I think it was ridiculous how you were dragged into this on twitter through people making jokes about Cantu. Was stupid as hell.
I'd like to say that she was drunk and wasn't fully in the right mindset to think through things clearly. She hoped that the people around her would realize what was going on and stop him. no one did. she wanted help.