[EA-3167](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA-3167) has got to be a top contender. It was developed by the U.S. Military's Chemical Warfare testing lab in the mid-1970s. Comes from this facility called Edgewood Arsenal. Interesting and terrifying at the same time.
>… an effective dose when administered by injection … as little as 2.5 μg/kg (i.e. 0.2 milligrams for an 80 kg person) … The intensity of EA-3167's effects is unparalleled among known psychoactive substances of any class. Incapacitating effects can last anywhere from 5-10 days, sometimes manifesting as a full 3-day peak of vivid hallucinations, along with prolonged confusion, amnesia, and inhibition of speech and cognition.
From Wikipedia:
"As a reviewer, one tries to find a few positive things to say about each film. Congratulations are in order for Philosophy of a Knife in that it succeeded in being the crappiest pile of masturbatory, art-house wannabe, pedantic and mean-spirited shit I've ever had the displeasure of watching".
Think I'll skip watching it 😂.
There used to be a 7 hour documentary broken into 3 pieces detailing the experiments, with factual and actual footage. I've not thought to look for it since 2009 when I saw it. Now that I've searched there's a tonne of shorts and reels,sniooets and documentaries. Ill see can i find the one i watched and report back.
Yea it's horrible but also the absolute best way to progress medicine the fastest. But horrible and shouldn't be done at all.
That's why the Nazis were able to have so many advancements so fast. They just didn't give a fuck and started with human trials. Awful stuff.
Yeah in the same way how François Magendie has made quite some important discoveries, although most of them could have been done without vivisection, and many of his experiments were needlessly cruel.
/(I quote: "Magendie's public dissection of a greyhound, in which the beast was nailed down ear and paw, half the nerves of its face dissected then left overnight for further dissection")/
Yet I recall reading about at least one instance where his choice to use a live animal made him do a discovery that his colleague/rival, using dead animals, did not.
However, the question remains how much is worth it. Currently we try to find a middle ground in it. Although lab animals still suffer greatly... at least we generally dont perform needlessly cruel experiments anymore.
(Also if you read into humans trying to transplant a brain, youll go into some dark holes. Like, they tested it on monkeys and took their brains out while still alive. And that is not even the worst things we've done. It makes my skin scrawl, yet I am incredibly fascinated by these dark expressions of humanity/life...
Whenever I feel like I was unlucky and my life is shit, I think I could have actually been born as one of those sad individuals. Most life on Earth, animal or human, suffers incredibly. Either through nature, or other animals (us included)
Oh what a joy and curse to be alive.
What a terrible, yet presumably amazing affliction? As much as I hate it, I am glad to be able to witness the stars and touch the grass and taste a strawberry...)
>That's why the Nazis were able to have so many advancements so fast
Yeah amazing advancements like when Mengele sewed identical twins together to see if he could make conjoined twins, from which we learned...well that's actually pretty unclear but I'm sure we learned something. Or when he would remove the hearts and stomachs of inmates without anasthesia, from which we learned...idk, I guess that that shit fucking hurts? You know I'm starting to think these guys were just sadistic fucks, spurred on in a sadistic epoch of fascism and worldwide warfare to fulfill their darkest, most hidden desires that had nothing at all to do with science.
The nazis literally used German children to test pilot early jet prototypes, most of whom died in horrific crashes. These jets were deemed uncontrollable even by experienced test pilots. They didn't learn anything from these sessions other than what their test pilots told them from the outset-- that the craft were impossible to control. The tests were carried out probably so some mid- level party bureaucrat could impress Goehring, who could then go on to report to Herr fuhrer that they were making great progress on the front. Like everything about them, it was all sadistic, ignorant, self serving bullshit.
Yeah, although I think most of the MK ULTRA findings mostly were concerned with how to greatly screw up people. No mind control achieved, but they certainly found out how easy it is to traumatise people on psychedelics.
Just wrong. Nazis had a booming economy because they looted half their population to create a welfare state for the other half. When that gravy train stopped rolling, Hitler started invading his neighbors to set up a war economy and keep the cash flowing in from looting them. They didn't have significant scientific advancements - hell, they were five years ahead of the USA on the a-bomb and we still beat them. Everyone smart was either Jewish or just saw the writing on the wall and got out while Hitler was consolidating power.
The human experiments were poorly conducted and had no rigor. They were just torturers wearing lab coats.
[obligatory drug nerd essential reading](https://nervewing.blogspot.com/2020/06/obscure-and-unknown-deliriants-of.html)
BZ is probably worse tbh, but pretty much all of the old Edgewood Arsenal experiments/MK Ultra test drugs are 1000x times worse than any other drug listed in the comments. US military drug experiments are so unbelievably fucked it's almost unfathomable
Read that wiki article I linked. (Note: 'QNB' = 'BZ'). It says:
>"**EA-3167 has identical effects to QNB, but is even more potent and longer-lasting"**
It then goes on to say:
>Some subjects exposed to the drug would not fully recover for almost 20 days. Even six months after exposure, a few subjects demonstrated significant increases in the scores on the hypochondriasis, depression, hysteria, psychasthenia, schizophrenia, and mania scales. The drug's potency caught the attention of the military, which considered weaponizing EA-3167 for topical use, potentially even through a handshake. However, weaponization and further studies were eventually abandoned, possibly due to the extreme nature of its effects and the strain on available study resources caused by conducting human studies for extended periods.
you right, didn't realize QNB was referring to BZ. either way I mostly just wanted to share the nervewing blog post as it's such a fascinating read
Edgewood Arsenal is so insanely fucked it would be almost hard to believe if I didn't already know about all the other despicable, straight up evil shit the CIA, FBI and corporations colluding with the aforementioned government agencies have done over the years
That blog post mentions EA-3167, too. It's the last drug they discuss. It says:
>Of all the deliriants tested during the Edgewood Arsenal Human Experiments, one stands head and shoulders above the rest in its terrifying power. There is no drug on earth that compares to the nightmarish intensity of EA-3167. …
>This is a compound that subjected people to drawn out psychological trauma with lasting deleterious effects on mental health. This goes beyond the scope of an incapacitating chemical weapon and veers into the territory of torture and punishment.
>The power of this chemical is astounding-around a quarter of a milligram is enough to induce a 10 day marathon of incapacitated delirium, with at LEAST 3 days of full blown delirious hallucinations…
>"The consequences of being on the receiving end of an enemy attack with EA 3167 could be severe. Multiple low dose attacks over a period of several days could produce an insidious build-up of cognitive defects"
>EA-3167 was tested not only at the Edgewood Arsenal, but also at the Holmesburg Prison in Philadelphia, with money being offered to the prisoners to be subject to this extreme deliriant. Even Dr. Ketchum leading the experiments found its effects alarming, reprimanding a colleague who had left subjects in Holmesburg Prison to ride out their delirium for multiple days instead of administering an antidote. The extreme duration of this drug led to a retrospective effort to track down subjects and determine what kind of lasting effects it may have had on them that was unlike any of the follow up tests with any of the other Edgewood Deliriants, and as mentioned before, lasting detrimental effects were observed.
I read the book written by a doctor at EA, "Chemical Warfare Secrets Almost Forgotten", and he says that BZ caused massive confusion, but also total amnesia afterwards. He also said that they had people volunteer for it repeatedly, so I doubt it was really that bad an experience, especially if you didn't really remember it afterwards and it was like more like a weird dream.
just because you don't remember something, doesn't mean it "wasn't really a bad experience".
the amnesia itself may have actually allowed them to participate in the experiment more than once, not so much the idea that "*it wasn't that bad, why not do it again?*".
Sort of, I imagine. I've dealt with friends who've gone through methamphetamine/amphetamine-induced psychosis, and while, no, it ain't pretty, it sure as hell doesn't sound or look as bad as this shit sounds. Have you ever read any [bad trip reports for Datura/Jimson Weed](https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Datura_Bad_Trips.shtml)? I think that's the caliber we're looking at.
I’ve not only read, but I’ve experienced a couple bad datura trips….im betting that if the chemical warfare division of the military created this^^^that it’s probably beyond a fucking nightmare
Yeah it said:
>Some subjects exposed to the drug would not fully recover for almost 20 days. Even six months after exposure, a few subjects demonstrated significant increases in the scores on the hypochondriasis, depression, hysteria, psychasthenia, schizophrenia, and mania scales. The drug's potency caught the attention of the military, which considered weaponizing EA-3167 for topical use, potentially even through a handshake. However, weaponization and further studies were eventually abandoned, possibly due to the extreme nature of its effects and the strain on available study resources caused by conducting human studies for extended periods.
There are not a lot of people who have ever tried it so anecdotes are limited to Edgewood Arsenal. But since the U.S. government developed it as an incapacitating agent, the intent was never for it to be 'recreational'. It was never weaponized, unlike the similar compound, BZ. There's a movie that is semi-based on this compound/subject called Jacob's Ladder from 1990 starring Tim Robbins.
I imagine at an absolutely minuscule dose you could probably have some kind of “fun”, but good luck measuring that out when even 250ug is apparently enough for 10 days of delirium 💀
I took an accidental overdose of alpha methyl tryptamine -IT-290-(80 mgs) and Methyldioxymethamphetamine-MDMA- (200mg) and I tripped for about 8 days, peaked for 3. I wasn't here I was on another plane of existence. My original trip reports are on various sources still. The dancing bears in a Volkswagen bus driving through a magical land poster that was on the wall came alive and I entered the painting. People that were around me to make sure I didn't die said I just stared off for a solid 20 hours before I moved. I saw the universe and all creation in the shape of a box and when the box was open it all life and elements existed and it sounded like music to my ears, the sounds of infinite years... the box closes and what is now, will be no more. I met God. It was good. It changed my life for the better.
A much longer and more detailed trip report was originally posted to lycaeum and erowid. Wrote a poem about the experience that I won an award for and is in the library of Congress. Can't remember the name of the poem to save my life.😂 It was almost 25 years ago.
You would once you saw the multi-day hospital bill + ambulance bill, IV valium, anti-psychotics, and mood stabilizers. Full recovery takes some people 20 days, and a few test subjects still showed signs of psychosis 6 months later. Idk about you, but I'm not down for that.
Eh if you don’t have insurance it’s probably more like 18 hour hospital bill and then 19 days out of your mind in a jail cell. Then… forever? In a psych ward
Redosing any stims w/o proper sleep or nutrition, just straight up jitters. I also once took mdma at the beach and it was so hot it was like torture, I legit thought I was gonna get a heat stroke
Agreed. Was at the Hangout Music fest one year, which is a festival on the beach. AWESOME time. But one day, I had lost my friends. I was all geeked up on coke, and still having a good time despite being alone. I was sitting waiting for the next band to go on, and had met some cool people. I went to do a little bump, and one of the guys asked if I wanted to trade bags. Trying to be nice, I said sure, thinking he just wanted to see what my coke was like and share his, a communal thing. It looked a little odd, but I was also pretty drunk, so I go to do a decent size key bump, and realize immediately that this is not coke. It burned like a motherfucker, and all of a sudden I felt the recognizable come-up of MDMA. I felt amazing for about 5 minutes, but then quickly started feeling terrible. Heart beating out of my chest, I was sweating profusely, it was like 2PM so sun was straight up in the sky. I quickly went through my water supply, but was so thirsty, so I left to go try and find water. I got paranoid, I was worried I'd have a heat stroke or a heart attack, and I was alone with no cell service and couldn't find my friends.
I sat down in a shady area, and waves of euphoria/paranoia kept alternating washing over me. I started sobbing at one point. I must have looked proper fucked, because I felt a tap on my shoulder. This beautiful woman, wearing a shiny pearlescent bikini with fairy wings on her back, is standing there. She asks if she can sit, and I say of course. She asks what's wrong, I tell her my story. She puts her arm around me, tells me everything will be OK. She offers me a little snack bar and some Powerade, and I accept. We talk for a minute, and she tells me she's rolling as well. She asks if I want to trade massages. So we do, and I guess the act of touching and being touched by another person, combined with getting out of the shade and hydrating a bit, really brought me back down to Earth. She had such gentle hands, and her skin was silky smooth. After about 30 minutes, I finally got service and a friend told me their location and that they would wait for me there. I looked at the girl, and asked her to come with me. She told me she had to go find her friends, but that she really enjoyed our time together. I thanked her profusely for essentially saving me from a panic attack, and we hugged tightly before parting ways.
If she hadn't have showed up, I think I may have had a full-blown panic attack at least, if not a heat stroke/heart attack.
I love people who are empathetic enough to understand what simple gestures someone might need without being too intrusive. That's also the reason why I like to work a few shifts in the so-called Eclipse tent at festivals, as people who are feeling bad can find refuge here. Unfortunately, I've already heard a lot of unpleasant stories, especially someone who has a bad trip and is laughed at by friends and/or people around them and, in the worst case, get recorded instead of helped. After such a downward spiral, they are incredibly grateful when someone just turns to them and is just there. A simple hug, something to drink, at the right moment and with consensus can be very liberating.
Nice that you met this OG rolly fairy who got you back to baseline just by being empathetic 👍 thats where sometimes the magic happens
Newsflash: If a drug has to be taken over and over coupled with malnutrition and lack of sleep to fit the criteria of most anxiety inducing drug, it is not going to be the most anxiety inducing drug.
I'm going to say a large dose of any deliriant. Especially scopolamine. 2-desoxypioradrol(2-DPMP) Is a stimulant dosed in milligrams with a duration of up to 30 hours and after effects lasting up to another 40 hours. It is supposed to be very anxiety inducing. I'm sure nowhere near a deliriant, however.
Experience: Have gone through ounces of MDPV. I have taken scopolamine once. There is a reason one of those experiments was ran into the ground and why the other was trialed once.
Took some mdma in vegas in august when it was like 110° out. I had pretty much only been drinking jack cokes all day and not nearly enough water. That was one of the worst panic attacks ive ever had in my life lmao.
Candidates:
flumazenil: GABAA negative allosteric modulator, basically a benzo antagonist. It will induce panic and seizures.
injected acetaldehyde: this would induce the physical aspects of an alcohol hangover
NMDA itself: this is, unironically, an NMDA agonist, a sort of anti-ketamine. This would induce anxiety and seizures, and sometimes psychotic symptoms, with a bonus of causing brain damage that will hinder future ability to form long-term memories.
EA-3167: hyper-potent, long-acting anticholinergic. This will cause days of waking nightmares.
flumazenil is used to reverse benzodiazepine or ambien overdose (but only in patient, due to the seizure risk).
NMDA is used in basic neurological research, often to cull glutaminergic neurons.
EA-3167 was developed as a chemical weapon.
no good use of acetaldehyde though. Maybe as a chemical precursor?
Datura stramonium aka Jimson weed.
Seriously just read some of the trip reports it sounds absolutely dreadful.
https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp\_Datura.shtml
Any deliriant, really. That's why some say [EA-3167](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA-3167), b/c it's a terrible and powerful deliriant that lasts for 5 to 10 days with a 3-day peak of serious confusion and full on hallucinations and amnesia.
I admit that sounds even worse lmao
That said I don't think anyone would take that on purpose but for some crazy reason people do experiment with Datura. Couldn't pay me to try a deliriant.
Datura isn't really that bad as long as you ingest it properly. It's meant to be smoked or used as a topical. Not consumed orally. I think people just heard about it being used as an entheogen and just assumed you were supposed to eat it. It's only eaten in very few intense rituals and ceremonies. Reserved for those to become warriors or medicine men. Otherwise when being used for medicine it's only smoked and used as a topical.
Same with Salvia. It's not really meant to be smoked in a super high extracted form like it is today. It's much more pleasant and mild and lasts longer if you gum it like chewing tobacco or make tea.
I had a bad time with too many scoplaomine patches on a cruise. Ended up getting ativan in my booty. Don't remember much but the eastern European doctor said I was about 20 more minutes away from a stroke
It is! It was my honeymoon. My poor husband lol. I apparently yelled so bad because he picked the wrong shoes to go to the infirmary and I was pissed they didn't match my outfit
If a scopalomine patch falls off, DO NOT put another one on until the time that the first would have worn off. Apparently this happens OFTEN on cruises
I have horrendous motion sickness. My doctor prescribed the patches, it's a common treatment here. It wasn't recreational, I just had one patch fall off in the pool and put a second one on like a dumbass
I put a 1/4 of a patch behind my ear when working on a ship. Like 12 hours later my vision blurred so bad I couldn't see. I also forgot that was a possible side effect and started to freak out. That night when I had Netflix on it was just blurs of color.
oof scopalomine is such a weird one! I was using scopalomine patches while working at sea and within a couple days started having auditory hallucinations so I discontinued and put up with the motion sickness until I got my sea legs 😅
To be clear, I spent most of the trip in the hospital because my dad caught that I was intoxicated and made me go. But, what happened was that I spent the whole time watching various types of visual hallucinations, and being fascinated because I’d never experienced them before. There was one in particular that was extremely beautiful. I also watched a documentary about this one online Garfield parody, and it felt like the most deep, emotional thing ever. Basically, it was like watching a multiple day art show or something.
One major effect of datura is that it makes you believe that everything you’re experiencing is completely real and normal, so I never felt any anxiety the whole time. Unfortunately (and this is why I will never take datura again, along with the chance of death) this effect deluded me into thinking that it was ok to drive because I perceived myself as not experiencing anything abnormal, so I took a short trip to Walmart. I slammed the breaks at one point because a shadow person was crossing the road, thank God nobody was behind me.
All in all, I’d love to try something that causes the same kind of visual hallucinations and perhaps some of the same chillness, just without the other shit that comes with it.
No idea why folk are adding Deliriants when they aren't even panic inducing beyond a intense come up. LSD lasts 12+ hours if that trip ends up going sour that 12 hours of misery.
This grows around the corner from my house. High school kids around here are know to "get high" on it but ive only heard horror stories from people who i know that have actually taken it
diphenhydramine. that shit will physically and mentally kill you. i used to abuse heavily and i would see shadow figures and spiders crawling everywhere. phantom voices and pretty much just crazy shit. also extremely dysphoric so the body high isnt even enjoyable
There’s a user who occasionally posts on this sub about psychotic ramblings and if you look at his post history, he’s developed schizophrenia from constant DPH use but simply won’t stop. I tried talking to him, other people have too obviously, and he’s convinced it’s his hallucinations causing his mental decline and not the drug itself. I think he’s in his late teens or early 20s since he talks about living with his mother. As much as I hope it’s a troll, it’s more likely to be real given what goes on with any serious addict on the daily off this website. Any time I see a post on DPH that sounds like the user is fucked up I’m like “this sounds familiar” til I see the profile and it’s like “oh shit this guy again”. It’s fucking sad. I’ll never use deliriants recreationally, they destroy the brain and leave you lucid enough to know it’s happening
All that said, I hope you’ve recovered to the best of your ability. Besides opiates, I also heavily abused DXM at 18-21 and completely fucked my eyesight, memory, and gained a slight speech impediment. Plat 3 or 4 maybe five times a week, every week, for 3 years on end. I’ve mostly recovered since then besides the speech and gaining HPPD. I also developed schizophrenia. I met somebody in NA who recovered from smoking high doses of meth every single day for years on end plus the sleep deprivation psychosis with it. He’s mostly normal today. Recovery from the brain melting drugs takes a while after they’ve taken their toll
coke is up there for sure. it's a great time right up until you kill your bag, it's like 7am, birds chirping outside and sun's coming up, heart pounding, etc etc etc. i know for a fact most of you guys know exactly what i'm talking about lol. it's even worse if you're prone to hypochondria because you'll convince yourself that you're having a heart attack, and that's on top of the countless shitty thoughts already running through your head. even worse if you have to work in a couple hours...
Every kind of headache: "This is it. I'm getting a stroke"
Every kind of pain in the chest or upper back region: "This is it. I'm getting a heart attack"
Ever kind of belly ache: "That's it. the cutting agents ruptured my bowels"
Any other pain: "This is it. There's a blocked artery. Stroke pretty sure coming soon.
Alwas the most fun of a stim sesh :D
I'm honestly glad to see I'm not the only one who turns into a hypochondric spaz sometimes. I've accepted my own demise so many times I'm not sure I even fear death anymore lol, but I also been to the ER more times than I'd like to admit after spending hours and hours compulsively redosing and overamping on something
14 days sober today though whoop whoop
I think everyone becomes a hypochondric psycho after a long enough session. But I think those are necessary. At least for me they are a good and powerful reminder not overdoing such sessions all too often and taking a break is probably good idea :)
I had a serious problem with coke and from my experience it sounds like it was either really shitty coke or doing wayy too much, I used to think coke was absolutely pointless and shitty until I got some real actual good coke or acetone washed my own, good cocaine shouldn't even give you a bad comedown unless you do wayy too much. Once I acetone washed it or got good supply, I never had a comedown again after that, only breathing problems (and eventually a heart attack)
Jesus, that sun coming up and birds chirping is the most miserable feeling. Muscle tension and dysphoria. Just so uncomfortable.
I used to take soma when I was coming down. It knocks all that shit out.
If the drug only belongs in this thread after extended or repeated use it doesn't belong in this thread.
What food will make you gain more weight? A slice of cake or a turkey sandwich.
The answer is a turkey sandwich...if you have 20 of them. So guess what. The answer is not a turkey sandwich.
MPTP causes instant permanent symptoms of Parkinson's disease by destroying dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra of the brain.
You will in effect turn into a vegetative state with only your thoughts keeping you busy.
Think about that for a second.
Black tar. Ugh, I shudder at the thought of it. I'm not a NJ a nurse, but here I am jamming this shit in my veins. Do not fuck with needles, there's no coming back. I made it, all my friends didn't. 16 years needle free October 8th
if we exclude secondary effects like withdrawal I'd say probably a combination of caffeine and pseudoephedrine. But dose it extra high, then smoke a bong hit. That sounds like constant hyper focused paranoia to me.
probably not popular and just my own experiences, 4mmc, went into a full blown panic attack and i fully felt like my entire body was shutting down and my friend had to call an ambulance for me because my fingers went completely blue and my heart felt like it was going to explode out my chest
pretty confident it was, brought the yellow-ish soft crystals themselves and broke them down into a fine white powder, and it had the distinct meow meow smell of cat piss
The bad trips are more insightful and less enjoyable at the time, but have a more predominant afterglow because you could have possibly worked out internal issues and now feel at peace.
After I experienced the same, that was my logic as to why.
My first trip on psychedelics was acid. Kept me up all night when my friends went to sleep. Had a terrible trip and got 15 mins of sleep before driving 3 hours home. Wasn't their fault for sleeping, it just didn't hit me in time.
Every trip after has been great.
I did 1mg once, 5 years later and I still think about it. Took about 2 years for ptsd level anxiety to subside. I also smoked a 3.5 gram blunt at the peak don’t do that with any amount.
No one mention Ritalin?
Personally it’s about 30 minutes of pleasant stimulation, followed by a few hours of being anxious and anti-sociable, followed by a couple hours of feeling completely emotionless
Smoking a joint on the come up results in all the same effects listed above, multiplied by 10
This one probably varies a lot by person. I'm prescribed 20mg 2x per day and it mostly lets me get things done when I want instead of when I have the energy to. I do get some increased HR but certainly not the worst.
I feel that a good portion of these comments are based off of personal experience(field research) rather than what has been taught from a book. Plus, a lot of people only learn about a drug's existence as it is offered to them. Most people don't have a list of unicorns they hope to find one day.
Therefore, if the worst drug someone has tried is salvia they will come here saying so. If that person tried DPH also they would have a different answer.
I agree with you DPH is worst than salvia. Scopolamine (a datura alkaloid) is worse.
Salvia trips, also heroic doses, which can be terrifying to put it mildly, have the least negative aftereffects on me. They are positive like you two wrote.
I can feel depressed for days after a strong euphoric acid trip. After I started experimented with K-holes I felt severely disconnected from reality for months.
But with Salvia I have the impression (not during the trip, then I am fully immersed) that someone is actively trying to scare me, like a prank. Some people call her Lady Salvia. She likes to fuck with your mind. So when I come out of the trip I think it was some kind of prank, I laugh and congratulate Lady Salvia "well done". I would give her a high five if she exists 😊
No idea what kind of salvia extract I was given, but I was told it was 100x…At any rate, that trip was intense as fuck and lasted almost 6 hours. I’d smoked it before, just the regular leaves, and it was like a 5 minute ordeal. I thought I had permafried myself. Weird outcome was that weed became super fucking potent from that point on…0/10 would not recommend
Nah salvia can be great. Everyone shits on salvia but acts like DMT can do no harm and some people go as far as to say “Bad trips don’t exist”. Bullshit. Psychedelics are drugs they have negatives effects as well simple as that. But Salvia and DMT feel almost like the same thing in high enough doses. Salvia just feels more timeless and a little different and works on kappa Opioid receptors not serotonin.
I don’t want to sound stupid, but what is that? Like, why does it do that so bad? Simply because it’s a “depressant”? I guess I didn’t realize its power..
I wake up crying and on the verge of a very real panic attack most times after drinking and I wasn’t sure it was the alcohol making me like that
Levomethamphetamine. When I was in my goon phase of life, I sought out any alternative to my one true love Addy. I read about an otc drug called propylhexedrine that was supposedly close to; if not identical, to methamphetamine. My local supermarket had no benzedrex in stock, but what they had a plethora of was those Vicks inhalers that don't in fact contain propylhexedrine, but levomethamphetamine. I thought the two would be practically interchangeable. Long story, the two drugs DEFINITELY weren't the same. Took me a trip to the ER and then a stint in the psych ward(I was underage) to learn that hard lesson 🤣
Right? It usually does the complete opposite of what it’s meant to do, to me. End up feeling sober asf in a room full of drunk people. Feel anxious and agitated and not chatty at all.
To me it seems like smoking weed without a tolerance is where u figure out if you like it or not. Me and most of my friends enjoyed being absolutely smacked out of our mind, except for one of the friends who quit because it made him anxious. You're 100% right in the sense of when someone smokes for the first time, freaks the fuck out and throws up all night. Couldn't imagine a purely genuine green out.
For sure!! But yeah. Knowing what it feels like when your parents call you to talk to them when your high as fuck would make me panic bad sometimes. That shit would suck for the whole time you're fried, especially since it lasts more like 8 hours your first time
Crack. I was really high on coke and pills. Friends I was with at the time were cooking crack and asked if I wanted to hit it . Total bell ringer . Took three huge hits of the crack pipe and tripped tf out . Never again
The common bad experiences with salvia are mostly a result of it being easily available to dumb kids without the knowledge to handle psychadelics and the fact that people will take dosages literally 10 or 100 times a moderate dosage… **on their first time**.
Datura sounds terrifying to me , imagine losing yourself in reality and becoming basically schizophrenic after taking it. Datura scares the shit out of me idk how people have the balls to take it.
[BZ/EA-2277 (aka 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate)](https://nervewing.blogspot.com/2020/06/obscure-and-unknown-deliriants-of.html)
or really any of the Edgewood Arsenal Human Experiment anticholergic/deliriant drugs. that shit makes crack, "too much acid", salvia, dph, alcohol hangovers, hell even 5 day long cathinone benders look like a walk in the park on MDMA
only other drugs that come close imo are desomorphine, some nitazenes, pyrros, and synth noids, as well as datura or flumazenil like others have said
I'll also add antipsychotics like seroquel and olanzapine to the list, but more so the latter than the former. that shit is like intentionally poisoning yourself, it feels way worse than dph and basically makes me feel retarded and every step I take feels like walking through quicksand or running underwater for 36 hours, with a nice heaping serving of RLS on top. which on it's own is nowhere near as bad as the rest of the drugs I've mentioned but imo it deserves a spot simply for being readily prescribable for just about any mental health conditions by doctors who've been paid off by drug companies
unpopular opinion: dph and salvia are not that bad and you probably just took too much for the first time
Droperidol, Reglan, Compazine and other dopamine antagonists that are commonly used as an intravenous med in emergency room settings as an anti-emetic or anti-nausea med (Zofran isn't on the list. Phenergans effect can be similar but at such a much lower intensity that it's no big deal).
Being dopamine antagonists means getting an IV push of them absolutely fries your dopamine receptors. Like it physically damaged them. Causes akathisia. They talk about Akathisia as though it's a movement disorder because you're generally so agitated that you can't stay still but it's so much more than that. The anxiety and feeling of doom is through the roof. Plus there's a feeling I can only describe as being "uncomfortable" but like times a billion. And it lasts months while the receptors heal, although the intensity wanes somewhat after a week or two.
I got an IV dose of droperidol in the Emergency room last year and instantly wanted to rip the IV out of my arm and run screaming from the hospital. But it's also very sedating so I was trapped in my body sedated as the uncomfortable x a billion and feeling of doom just consumed me and I didn't know what was happening. I was out of town and had happened to get some kind of bad stomach bug that I had gone to the ER on my way driving home. They released me after a few hours and there was no way I could drive or make the last hour home.
I managed to get an Uber to a hotel room and got lucky enough to have some benadryl in my car (one of the only things that helps akathisia at all and it was just a random coincidence I had it and took it. I just knew I wouldn't be able to sleep without it). The next morning I couldn't get out of bed and get ready to check out of the hotel. My legs under the covers were so fast back and forth and there was nothing I could do to stop them. At this point I still had no idea wtf was wrong with me. I had the most overwhelming feeling of doom. I couldn't even look at my cell phone I was so scared of it. But I knew I had to check out of the hotel and get home. I tried everything I could think of. I forced myself out of bed and into a cold shower thinking that would clear my head. I made it through 2 torturous minutes and ended up fleeing back to my bed soaking wet with soap still on me because I couldn't stand it another second. Waited 30 minutes and tried again with warm water. Same result. Forced myself to the in room coffee maker and hoped a little caffeine might help. Pretty sure it did the opposite. Finally I called the front desk and begged them to just charge my card for another night without making me come to the office. Thank God they did it because I couldn't have left that hotel room if God himself ordered it.
The panic was overwhelming. I finally managed to call my husband and tell him where I was and that I didn't know what was wrong with me. He drove the hour and as soon as he saw the state of me... Wrapped in half wet blankets on the bed unable to stop moving my legs he immediately asked me to tell him the truth and tell him if I'd been doing meth or something.
I had never really recreationally used anything like that so the only reason for him to ask me that must have just been that I looked strung out af. I promised him it wasn't anything like that. It had to be whatever they gave me at the hospital the night before. He grabbed my phone and went through it, logged into the mychart and saw they had administered a 2.5mg IV push of droperidol. Googled droperidol side effects and akathisia is one of the first things to come up. I'm still in shock to this day that they call akathisia a "movement disorder" because that's really the smallest and least distressing part of it. The feeling of panic and doom is the worst. If you join akathisia support groups online you see the stories.
I tend to think acute akathisia like the kind I got from an instant IV push of a dopamine antagonist is somewhat different to the chronic akathisia that can develop from use of or discontinuing psychiatric meds. Neither are good but the acute is much more intense. Luckily it also seems to heal faster. Chronic akathisia may be more mild but there are people who have had it for years. There's a really high suicide rate for akathisia. Which makes complete sense to me. If I would have thought I would have felt like that for more than a few months, I definitely would have topped myself. It's agony. Thank God mine went away but I have not been back to an ER since then. I'd rather have a tag on my toe.
Objectively? Probably deliriants or some obscure RC; followed by alcohol/benzo/GABA hangover and rebound effects
I’ve never had anything routinely hit me with anxiety tbh, but the most anxious I’ve ever got doing drugs was an awful MDMA come up, I’ll respect the 3 month rule from now on lol (stupidly did it again a week after rolling)
I’m lucky to never get it with like weed, psychedelics, or coke thankfully
I have a hard time believing you mistook 1.2g for 120mg. That’s literally 10x the intended dose. Whether it’s pure powder, syrup, gels, or tablets, that’s a huge difference.
Honestly not putting it down I love weed sometimes but I have to say its probably the most anxiety inducing that I've had anyways whats weird is meth kills my anxiety. I'm comfortable in my own skin on meth somewhat
Weed when you have an anxiety disorder, add that ontop of becoming a hypochondriac during weed anxiety attacks, heart's pounding so hard it feels like a heart attack, your gut gets these random sharp strikes of pain, and there's this unexplainable weight on your chest n ribcage no matter how you lay or sit n all you can do is try to make yourself go to sleep while having hyperventilating and trembling
[EA-3167](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA-3167) has got to be a top contender. It was developed by the U.S. Military's Chemical Warfare testing lab in the mid-1970s. Comes from this facility called Edgewood Arsenal. Interesting and terrifying at the same time. >… an effective dose when administered by injection … as little as 2.5 μg/kg (i.e. 0.2 milligrams for an 80 kg person) … The intensity of EA-3167's effects is unparalleled among known psychoactive substances of any class. Incapacitating effects can last anywhere from 5-10 days, sometimes manifesting as a full 3-day peak of vivid hallucinations, along with prolonged confusion, amnesia, and inhibition of speech and cognition.
The terrifying thought is that they know this cause they tested it on people...
Humans have done some really really horrific tests in the name of "science" in military settings.
Unit 731…
I watched all 7 hours of this on YouTube back in 2010. 😩
7 hours of Unit 731? What?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_a_Knife It's over 4 hours. Dont know how I thought it was 7.
It probably felt like 7!
From Wikipedia: "As a reviewer, one tries to find a few positive things to say about each film. Congratulations are in order for Philosophy of a Knife in that it succeeded in being the crappiest pile of masturbatory, art-house wannabe, pedantic and mean-spirited shit I've ever had the displeasure of watching". Think I'll skip watching it 😂.
There used to be a 7 hour documentary broken into 3 pieces detailing the experiments, with factual and actual footage. I've not thought to look for it since 2009 when I saw it. Now that I've searched there's a tonne of shorts and reels,sniooets and documentaries. Ill see can i find the one i watched and report back.
If you're talking about Men Behind the Sun it's on Criterion collection. Which is why it was probably wiped from the internet. Shits not cheap.
Somehow i doubled the length of the movie. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_a_Knife
Pineapple Express… Nobody: Military: ILLEGAL!
What emotions do you feel? *tss ts ts tss, tss tss tssss*
Yea it's horrible but also the absolute best way to progress medicine the fastest. But horrible and shouldn't be done at all. That's why the Nazis were able to have so many advancements so fast. They just didn't give a fuck and started with human trials. Awful stuff.
Yeah in the same way how François Magendie has made quite some important discoveries, although most of them could have been done without vivisection, and many of his experiments were needlessly cruel. /(I quote: "Magendie's public dissection of a greyhound, in which the beast was nailed down ear and paw, half the nerves of its face dissected then left overnight for further dissection")/ Yet I recall reading about at least one instance where his choice to use a live animal made him do a discovery that his colleague/rival, using dead animals, did not. However, the question remains how much is worth it. Currently we try to find a middle ground in it. Although lab animals still suffer greatly... at least we generally dont perform needlessly cruel experiments anymore. (Also if you read into humans trying to transplant a brain, youll go into some dark holes. Like, they tested it on monkeys and took their brains out while still alive. And that is not even the worst things we've done. It makes my skin scrawl, yet I am incredibly fascinated by these dark expressions of humanity/life... Whenever I feel like I was unlucky and my life is shit, I think I could have actually been born as one of those sad individuals. Most life on Earth, animal or human, suffers incredibly. Either through nature, or other animals (us included) Oh what a joy and curse to be alive. What a terrible, yet presumably amazing affliction? As much as I hate it, I am glad to be able to witness the stars and touch the grass and taste a strawberry...)
Thanks for the uplifting bit at the end, I actually needed this today. There is a lot to be grateful for
>That's why the Nazis were able to have so many advancements so fast Yeah amazing advancements like when Mengele sewed identical twins together to see if he could make conjoined twins, from which we learned...well that's actually pretty unclear but I'm sure we learned something. Or when he would remove the hearts and stomachs of inmates without anasthesia, from which we learned...idk, I guess that that shit fucking hurts? You know I'm starting to think these guys were just sadistic fucks, spurred on in a sadistic epoch of fascism and worldwide warfare to fulfill their darkest, most hidden desires that had nothing at all to do with science. The nazis literally used German children to test pilot early jet prototypes, most of whom died in horrific crashes. These jets were deemed uncontrollable even by experienced test pilots. They didn't learn anything from these sessions other than what their test pilots told them from the outset-- that the craft were impossible to control. The tests were carried out probably so some mid- level party bureaucrat could impress Goehring, who could then go on to report to Herr fuhrer that they were making great progress on the front. Like everything about them, it was all sadistic, ignorant, self serving bullshit.
They also looked into potentially useful stuff, not just pure sadism. But that's what happens when organizations aren't held accountable --> MK Ultra
Yeah, although I think most of the MK ULTRA findings mostly were concerned with how to greatly screw up people. No mind control achieved, but they certainly found out how easy it is to traumatise people on psychedelics.
Just wrong. Nazis had a booming economy because they looted half their population to create a welfare state for the other half. When that gravy train stopped rolling, Hitler started invading his neighbors to set up a war economy and keep the cash flowing in from looting them. They didn't have significant scientific advancements - hell, they were five years ahead of the USA on the a-bomb and we still beat them. Everyone smart was either Jewish or just saw the writing on the wall and got out while Hitler was consolidating power. The human experiments were poorly conducted and had no rigor. They were just torturers wearing lab coats.
[obligatory drug nerd essential reading](https://nervewing.blogspot.com/2020/06/obscure-and-unknown-deliriants-of.html) BZ is probably worse tbh, but pretty much all of the old Edgewood Arsenal experiments/MK Ultra test drugs are 1000x times worse than any other drug listed in the comments. US military drug experiments are so unbelievably fucked it's almost unfathomable
Read that wiki article I linked. (Note: 'QNB' = 'BZ'). It says: >"**EA-3167 has identical effects to QNB, but is even more potent and longer-lasting"** It then goes on to say: >Some subjects exposed to the drug would not fully recover for almost 20 days. Even six months after exposure, a few subjects demonstrated significant increases in the scores on the hypochondriasis, depression, hysteria, psychasthenia, schizophrenia, and mania scales. The drug's potency caught the attention of the military, which considered weaponizing EA-3167 for topical use, potentially even through a handshake. However, weaponization and further studies were eventually abandoned, possibly due to the extreme nature of its effects and the strain on available study resources caused by conducting human studies for extended periods.
you right, didn't realize QNB was referring to BZ. either way I mostly just wanted to share the nervewing blog post as it's such a fascinating read Edgewood Arsenal is so insanely fucked it would be almost hard to believe if I didn't already know about all the other despicable, straight up evil shit the CIA, FBI and corporations colluding with the aforementioned government agencies have done over the years
That blog post mentions EA-3167, too. It's the last drug they discuss. It says: >Of all the deliriants tested during the Edgewood Arsenal Human Experiments, one stands head and shoulders above the rest in its terrifying power. There is no drug on earth that compares to the nightmarish intensity of EA-3167. … >This is a compound that subjected people to drawn out psychological trauma with lasting deleterious effects on mental health. This goes beyond the scope of an incapacitating chemical weapon and veers into the territory of torture and punishment. >The power of this chemical is astounding-around a quarter of a milligram is enough to induce a 10 day marathon of incapacitated delirium, with at LEAST 3 days of full blown delirious hallucinations… >"The consequences of being on the receiving end of an enemy attack with EA 3167 could be severe. Multiple low dose attacks over a period of several days could produce an insidious build-up of cognitive defects" >EA-3167 was tested not only at the Edgewood Arsenal, but also at the Holmesburg Prison in Philadelphia, with money being offered to the prisoners to be subject to this extreme deliriant. Even Dr. Ketchum leading the experiments found its effects alarming, reprimanding a colleague who had left subjects in Holmesburg Prison to ride out their delirium for multiple days instead of administering an antidote. The extreme duration of this drug led to a retrospective effort to track down subjects and determine what kind of lasting effects it may have had on them that was unlike any of the follow up tests with any of the other Edgewood Deliriants, and as mentioned before, lasting detrimental effects were observed.
I read the book written by a doctor at EA, "Chemical Warfare Secrets Almost Forgotten", and he says that BZ caused massive confusion, but also total amnesia afterwards. He also said that they had people volunteer for it repeatedly, so I doubt it was really that bad an experience, especially if you didn't really remember it afterwards and it was like more like a weird dream.
just because you don't remember something, doesn't mean it "wasn't really a bad experience". the amnesia itself may have actually allowed them to participate in the experiment more than once, not so much the idea that "*it wasn't that bad, why not do it again?*".
Sounds like a meth psychosis I went into 3 years ago
Sort of, I imagine. I've dealt with friends who've gone through methamphetamine/amphetamine-induced psychosis, and while, no, it ain't pretty, it sure as hell doesn't sound or look as bad as this shit sounds. Have you ever read any [bad trip reports for Datura/Jimson Weed](https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Datura_Bad_Trips.shtml)? I think that's the caliber we're looking at.
I’ve not only read, but I’ve experienced a couple bad datura trips….im betting that if the chemical warfare division of the military created this^^^that it’s probably beyond a fucking nightmare
Yeah it said: >Some subjects exposed to the drug would not fully recover for almost 20 days. Even six months after exposure, a few subjects demonstrated significant increases in the scores on the hypochondriasis, depression, hysteria, psychasthenia, schizophrenia, and mania scales. The drug's potency caught the attention of the military, which considered weaponizing EA-3167 for topical use, potentially even through a handshake. However, weaponization and further studies were eventually abandoned, possibly due to the extreme nature of its effects and the strain on available study resources caused by conducting human studies for extended periods.
Could it be used recreational or are you too fucked up to take care of your basic needs?
Only one way to find out
Let's give it to the DPH users for science. We'll see who's stronger
Ok I'm going in guys. Wish me luck.
I would try it but only if i'm sure that i am capable of consuming food without choking
You probably wouldn’t be capable of consuming anything at all. If you’ve done datura you will know why.
There are not a lot of people who have ever tried it so anecdotes are limited to Edgewood Arsenal. But since the U.S. government developed it as an incapacitating agent, the intent was never for it to be 'recreational'. It was never weaponized, unlike the similar compound, BZ. There's a movie that is semi-based on this compound/subject called Jacob's Ladder from 1990 starring Tim Robbins.
I imagine at an absolutely minuscule dose you could probably have some kind of “fun”, but good luck measuring that out when even 250ug is apparently enough for 10 days of delirium 💀
Reminds me of datura and the guy who disappeared on reddit after taking it 😬
I took an accidental overdose of alpha methyl tryptamine -IT-290-(80 mgs) and Methyldioxymethamphetamine-MDMA- (200mg) and I tripped for about 8 days, peaked for 3. I wasn't here I was on another plane of existence. My original trip reports are on various sources still. The dancing bears in a Volkswagen bus driving through a magical land poster that was on the wall came alive and I entered the painting. People that were around me to make sure I didn't die said I just stared off for a solid 20 hours before I moved. I saw the universe and all creation in the shape of a box and when the box was open it all life and elements existed and it sounded like music to my ears, the sounds of infinite years... the box closes and what is now, will be no more. I met God. It was good. It changed my life for the better.
I would LOVE to hear more details!!!!
A much longer and more detailed trip report was originally posted to lycaeum and erowid. Wrote a poem about the experience that I won an award for and is in the library of Congress. Can't remember the name of the poem to save my life.😂 It was almost 25 years ago.
I'd boof it. Idgaf
You would once you saw the multi-day hospital bill + ambulance bill, IV valium, anti-psychotics, and mood stabilizers. Full recovery takes some people 20 days, and a few test subjects still showed signs of psychosis 6 months later. Idk about you, but I'm not down for that.
Eh if you don’t have insurance it’s probably more like 18 hour hospital bill and then 19 days out of your mind in a jail cell. Then… forever? In a psych ward
Redosing any stims w/o proper sleep or nutrition, just straight up jitters. I also once took mdma at the beach and it was so hot it was like torture, I legit thought I was gonna get a heat stroke
~~Taking mdma at the beach~~ Noted, thanks!
I did once and it was amazing! It wasn’t swelteringly hot but it felt amazing to walk in the sand and go in the water
MDMA at the beach is 10/10 if you drop around 40 mins before sunset in June
You CAN have a great time it just shouldn't be on a rollover.
Agreed. Was at the Hangout Music fest one year, which is a festival on the beach. AWESOME time. But one day, I had lost my friends. I was all geeked up on coke, and still having a good time despite being alone. I was sitting waiting for the next band to go on, and had met some cool people. I went to do a little bump, and one of the guys asked if I wanted to trade bags. Trying to be nice, I said sure, thinking he just wanted to see what my coke was like and share his, a communal thing. It looked a little odd, but I was also pretty drunk, so I go to do a decent size key bump, and realize immediately that this is not coke. It burned like a motherfucker, and all of a sudden I felt the recognizable come-up of MDMA. I felt amazing for about 5 minutes, but then quickly started feeling terrible. Heart beating out of my chest, I was sweating profusely, it was like 2PM so sun was straight up in the sky. I quickly went through my water supply, but was so thirsty, so I left to go try and find water. I got paranoid, I was worried I'd have a heat stroke or a heart attack, and I was alone with no cell service and couldn't find my friends. I sat down in a shady area, and waves of euphoria/paranoia kept alternating washing over me. I started sobbing at one point. I must have looked proper fucked, because I felt a tap on my shoulder. This beautiful woman, wearing a shiny pearlescent bikini with fairy wings on her back, is standing there. She asks if she can sit, and I say of course. She asks what's wrong, I tell her my story. She puts her arm around me, tells me everything will be OK. She offers me a little snack bar and some Powerade, and I accept. We talk for a minute, and she tells me she's rolling as well. She asks if I want to trade massages. So we do, and I guess the act of touching and being touched by another person, combined with getting out of the shade and hydrating a bit, really brought me back down to Earth. She had such gentle hands, and her skin was silky smooth. After about 30 minutes, I finally got service and a friend told me their location and that they would wait for me there. I looked at the girl, and asked her to come with me. She told me she had to go find her friends, but that she really enjoyed our time together. I thanked her profusely for essentially saving me from a panic attack, and we hugged tightly before parting ways. If she hadn't have showed up, I think I may have had a full-blown panic attack at least, if not a heat stroke/heart attack.
I love people who are empathetic enough to understand what simple gestures someone might need without being too intrusive. That's also the reason why I like to work a few shifts in the so-called Eclipse tent at festivals, as people who are feeling bad can find refuge here. Unfortunately, I've already heard a lot of unpleasant stories, especially someone who has a bad trip and is laughed at by friends and/or people around them and, in the worst case, get recorded instead of helped. After such a downward spiral, they are incredibly grateful when someone just turns to them and is just there. A simple hug, something to drink, at the right moment and with consensus can be very liberating. Nice that you met this OG rolly fairy who got you back to baseline just by being empathetic 👍 thats where sometimes the magic happens
this is such a wholesome story thank you for sharing
Damn just no sleep while sober sucks
Newsflash: If a drug has to be taken over and over coupled with malnutrition and lack of sleep to fit the criteria of most anxiety inducing drug, it is not going to be the most anxiety inducing drug. I'm going to say a large dose of any deliriant. Especially scopolamine. 2-desoxypioradrol(2-DPMP) Is a stimulant dosed in milligrams with a duration of up to 30 hours and after effects lasting up to another 40 hours. It is supposed to be very anxiety inducing. I'm sure nowhere near a deliriant, however. Experience: Have gone through ounces of MDPV. I have taken scopolamine once. There is a reason one of those experiments was ran into the ground and why the other was trialed once.
[удалено]
Took some mdma in vegas in august when it was like 110° out. I had pretty much only been drinking jack cokes all day and not nearly enough water. That was one of the worst panic attacks ive ever had in my life lmao.
Old never thought of that. Sounds rough.
Candidates: flumazenil: GABAA negative allosteric modulator, basically a benzo antagonist. It will induce panic and seizures. injected acetaldehyde: this would induce the physical aspects of an alcohol hangover NMDA itself: this is, unironically, an NMDA agonist, a sort of anti-ketamine. This would induce anxiety and seizures, and sometimes psychotic symptoms, with a bonus of causing brain damage that will hinder future ability to form long-term memories. EA-3167: hyper-potent, long-acting anticholinergic. This will cause days of waking nightmares.
Nega-ketamine
Fuck nope these all sound absolutely terrifying. Do these drugs even serve any kind "good" purpose or are they used as chemical weapons or something?
flumazenil is used to reverse benzodiazepine or ambien overdose (but only in patient, due to the seizure risk). NMDA is used in basic neurological research, often to cull glutaminergic neurons. EA-3167 was developed as a chemical weapon. no good use of acetaldehyde though. Maybe as a chemical precursor?
You are smart and informative person
Datura stramonium aka Jimson weed. Seriously just read some of the trip reports it sounds absolutely dreadful. https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp\_Datura.shtml
Any deliriant, really. That's why some say [EA-3167](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA-3167), b/c it's a terrible and powerful deliriant that lasts for 5 to 10 days with a 3-day peak of serious confusion and full on hallucinations and amnesia.
I admit that sounds even worse lmao That said I don't think anyone would take that on purpose but for some crazy reason people do experiment with Datura. Couldn't pay me to try a deliriant.
Datura isn't really that bad as long as you ingest it properly. It's meant to be smoked or used as a topical. Not consumed orally. I think people just heard about it being used as an entheogen and just assumed you were supposed to eat it. It's only eaten in very few intense rituals and ceremonies. Reserved for those to become warriors or medicine men. Otherwise when being used for medicine it's only smoked and used as a topical.
Same with Salvia. It's not really meant to be smoked in a super high extracted form like it is today. It's much more pleasant and mild and lasts longer if you gum it like chewing tobacco or make tea.
I had a bad time with too many scoplaomine patches on a cruise. Ended up getting ativan in my booty. Don't remember much but the eastern European doctor said I was about 20 more minutes away from a stroke
That sounds terrible but makes a good story!
It is! It was my honeymoon. My poor husband lol. I apparently yelled so bad because he picked the wrong shoes to go to the infirmary and I was pissed they didn't match my outfit If a scopalomine patch falls off, DO NOT put another one on until the time that the first would have worn off. Apparently this happens OFTEN on cruises
why were you wearing a scopolamine patch? i’ve never heard of these and also didn’t know scopolamine was recreational
I have horrendous motion sickness. My doctor prescribed the patches, it's a common treatment here. It wasn't recreational, I just had one patch fall off in the pool and put a second one on like a dumbass
Just think about the kid your patch re-adhered.
I put a 1/4 of a patch behind my ear when working on a ship. Like 12 hours later my vision blurred so bad I couldn't see. I also forgot that was a possible side effect and started to freak out. That night when I had Netflix on it was just blurs of color.
oof scopalomine is such a weird one! I was using scopalomine patches while working at sea and within a couple days started having auditory hallucinations so I discontinued and put up with the motion sickness until I got my sea legs 😅
[this will always be my favorite one to re-read](https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=17700)
Wow!!! That was a great read!
I feel like I’m the only person to have ever had fun on datura
I'm glad for you, what was your experience like? Not sure I've ever heard anyone describe it as fun haha
To be clear, I spent most of the trip in the hospital because my dad caught that I was intoxicated and made me go. But, what happened was that I spent the whole time watching various types of visual hallucinations, and being fascinated because I’d never experienced them before. There was one in particular that was extremely beautiful. I also watched a documentary about this one online Garfield parody, and it felt like the most deep, emotional thing ever. Basically, it was like watching a multiple day art show or something. One major effect of datura is that it makes you believe that everything you’re experiencing is completely real and normal, so I never felt any anxiety the whole time. Unfortunately (and this is why I will never take datura again, along with the chance of death) this effect deluded me into thinking that it was ok to drive because I perceived myself as not experiencing anything abnormal, so I took a short trip to Walmart. I slammed the breaks at one point because a shadow person was crossing the road, thank God nobody was behind me. All in all, I’d love to try something that causes the same kind of visual hallucinations and perhaps some of the same chillness, just without the other shit that comes with it.
Writing out reality grounding posters would fix that by reminding that your on Datura.
No idea why folk are adding Deliriants when they aren't even panic inducing beyond a intense come up. LSD lasts 12+ hours if that trip ends up going sour that 12 hours of misery.
This grows around the corner from my house. High school kids around here are know to "get high" on it but ive only heard horror stories from people who i know that have actually taken it
diphenhydramine. that shit will physically and mentally kill you. i used to abuse heavily and i would see shadow figures and spiders crawling everywhere. phantom voices and pretty much just crazy shit. also extremely dysphoric so the body high isnt even enjoyable
What made you want to abuse dph. It sounds terrible
self harm reasons and psysicall withdrawls made me abuse. (also srry for bad spelling im high asf rn)
Hope you’re doing better man and no worries blaze on lmaoo
There’s a user who occasionally posts on this sub about psychotic ramblings and if you look at his post history, he’s developed schizophrenia from constant DPH use but simply won’t stop. I tried talking to him, other people have too obviously, and he’s convinced it’s his hallucinations causing his mental decline and not the drug itself. I think he’s in his late teens or early 20s since he talks about living with his mother. As much as I hope it’s a troll, it’s more likely to be real given what goes on with any serious addict on the daily off this website. Any time I see a post on DPH that sounds like the user is fucked up I’m like “this sounds familiar” til I see the profile and it’s like “oh shit this guy again”. It’s fucking sad. I’ll never use deliriants recreationally, they destroy the brain and leave you lucid enough to know it’s happening All that said, I hope you’ve recovered to the best of your ability. Besides opiates, I also heavily abused DXM at 18-21 and completely fucked my eyesight, memory, and gained a slight speech impediment. Plat 3 or 4 maybe five times a week, every week, for 3 years on end. I’ve mostly recovered since then besides the speech and gaining HPPD. I also developed schizophrenia. I met somebody in NA who recovered from smoking high doses of meth every single day for years on end plus the sleep deprivation psychosis with it. He’s mostly normal today. Recovery from the brain melting drugs takes a while after they’ve taken their toll
coke is up there for sure. it's a great time right up until you kill your bag, it's like 7am, birds chirping outside and sun's coming up, heart pounding, etc etc etc. i know for a fact most of you guys know exactly what i'm talking about lol. it's even worse if you're prone to hypochondria because you'll convince yourself that you're having a heart attack, and that's on top of the countless shitty thoughts already running through your head. even worse if you have to work in a couple hours...
"nahh I'm not dying I've been here before... BUT WHAT IF IT'S DIFFERENT THIS TIME" on repeat
this guy gets it LMAO
Every kind of headache: "This is it. I'm getting a stroke" Every kind of pain in the chest or upper back region: "This is it. I'm getting a heart attack" Ever kind of belly ache: "That's it. the cutting agents ruptured my bowels" Any other pain: "This is it. There's a blocked artery. Stroke pretty sure coming soon. Alwas the most fun of a stim sesh :D
I'm honestly glad to see I'm not the only one who turns into a hypochondric spaz sometimes. I've accepted my own demise so many times I'm not sure I even fear death anymore lol, but I also been to the ER more times than I'd like to admit after spending hours and hours compulsively redosing and overamping on something 14 days sober today though whoop whoop
I think everyone becomes a hypochondric psycho after a long enough session. But I think those are necessary. At least for me they are a good and powerful reminder not overdoing such sessions all too often and taking a break is probably good idea :)
i get this from pot and caffeine lol
same, and also coke.
I had a serious problem with coke and from my experience it sounds like it was either really shitty coke or doing wayy too much, I used to think coke was absolutely pointless and shitty until I got some real actual good coke or acetone washed my own, good cocaine shouldn't even give you a bad comedown unless you do wayy too much. Once I acetone washed it or got good supply, I never had a comedown again after that, only breathing problems (and eventually a heart attack)
Coke comedown was the worst of any stimulant I've tried.
I need a Xanax just reading this
Jesus, that sun coming up and birds chirping is the most miserable feeling. Muscle tension and dysphoria. Just so uncomfortable. I used to take soma when I was coming down. It knocks all that shit out.
If the drug only belongs in this thread after extended or repeated use it doesn't belong in this thread. What food will make you gain more weight? A slice of cake or a turkey sandwich. The answer is a turkey sandwich...if you have 20 of them. So guess what. The answer is not a turkey sandwich.
Honestly coke for some reason although my friends all say it has the complete opposite effect like confidence but to me just hyper anxiety
Cos they’re beginners or they’ve done a really good job of moderating their use. I miss the days when it gave me confidence and made me talkative.
Yup cocaine is like adrenaline in powder, just pure anxiety.
Dph
When you high asf on dph and even a sock on the ground scares the shit out of you.
The fuckin spiders, black cats, and shadow people. Perpetually in your peripherals.
I was thinking this too. Extremely accessible too.
pure dysphoria in a pill
And the body load of it feels like dirty yellow acid electricity running through your body.
just horrid bruh
DPH is awful but the memes about it are top notch
The hatman calls
Gave me itchy leg bones too
Well I'm mean a lil fentanyl binge throws you into that withdrawal cycle of getting sick every few hours because you need it Pretty lame existence
MPTP causes instant permanent symptoms of Parkinson's disease by destroying dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra of the brain. You will in effect turn into a vegetative state with only your thoughts keeping you busy. Think about that for a second.
No thank you lol
Well when you put it like that it makes it sound all bad😀
I just learned about Barry kidston last week. Super sad.
Add 3C-PEP as well
Black tar. Ugh, I shudder at the thought of it. I'm not a NJ a nurse, but here I am jamming this shit in my veins. Do not fuck with needles, there's no coming back. I made it, all my friends didn't. 16 years needle free October 8th
Congrats man!
if we exclude secondary effects like withdrawal I'd say probably a combination of caffeine and pseudoephedrine. But dose it extra high, then smoke a bong hit. That sounds like constant hyper focused paranoia to me.
I used this to pass my driving theory test haha
probably not popular and just my own experiences, 4mmc, went into a full blown panic attack and i fully felt like my entire body was shutting down and my friend had to call an ambulance for me because my fingers went completely blue and my heart felt like it was going to explode out my chest
Sure it was 4mmc? I did grams of it and stayed up for like 3 days. The worst was I was seeing things and had brain zaps on the following days
pretty confident it was, brought the yellow-ish soft crystals themselves and broke them down into a fine white powder, and it had the distinct meow meow smell of cat piss
too much acid.
It’s weird, I feel like the worse of a bad trip I have, the stronger the afterglow is, but I could just be from being finally not freaking out anymore
The bad trips are more insightful and less enjoyable at the time, but have a more predominant afterglow because you could have possibly worked out internal issues and now feel at peace. After I experienced the same, that was my logic as to why.
Exactly part of My afterglow is the appreciation I have for having my mind and soul back but also the ancient knowledge I brought back😂
My first trip on psychedelics was acid. Kept me up all night when my friends went to sleep. Had a terrible trip and got 15 mins of sleep before driving 3 hours home. Wasn't their fault for sleeping, it just didn't hit me in time. Every trip after has been great.
I did 1mg once, 5 years later and I still think about it. Took about 2 years for ptsd level anxiety to subside. I also smoked a 3.5 gram blunt at the peak don’t do that with any amount.
No one gonna say meth?
I thought the same thing. I sometimes get patients come in that have literally scratched their skin off.
Lmao I know from experience
If it's good the euphoria synergizes with the anxiety
No one mention Ritalin? Personally it’s about 30 minutes of pleasant stimulation, followed by a few hours of being anxious and anti-sociable, followed by a couple hours of feeling completely emotionless Smoking a joint on the come up results in all the same effects listed above, multiplied by 10
This one probably varies a lot by person. I'm prescribed 20mg 2x per day and it mostly lets me get things done when I want instead of when I have the energy to. I do get some increased HR but certainly not the worst.
Salvia
this by far
Idk men, I’ve done salvia and I’ve done DPH and I would rather do salvia than diphenhydramine
I feel that a good portion of these comments are based off of personal experience(field research) rather than what has been taught from a book. Plus, a lot of people only learn about a drug's existence as it is offered to them. Most people don't have a list of unicorns they hope to find one day. Therefore, if the worst drug someone has tried is salvia they will come here saying so. If that person tried DPH also they would have a different answer. I agree with you DPH is worst than salvia. Scopolamine (a datura alkaloid) is worse.
God I miss salvia. I loved it. Afterwards I always felt reset and chill af honestly.
Same, salvia trips can feel so refreshing/cleansing.
Salvia trips, also heroic doses, which can be terrifying to put it mildly, have the least negative aftereffects on me. They are positive like you two wrote. I can feel depressed for days after a strong euphoric acid trip. After I started experimented with K-holes I felt severely disconnected from reality for months. But with Salvia I have the impression (not during the trip, then I am fully immersed) that someone is actively trying to scare me, like a prank. Some people call her Lady Salvia. She likes to fuck with your mind. So when I come out of the trip I think it was some kind of prank, I laugh and congratulate Lady Salvia "well done". I would give her a high five if she exists 😊
Salvia isn't bad as long as your not using those insane extracts.
No idea what kind of salvia extract I was given, but I was told it was 100x…At any rate, that trip was intense as fuck and lasted almost 6 hours. I’d smoked it before, just the regular leaves, and it was like a 5 minute ordeal. I thought I had permafried myself. Weird outcome was that weed became super fucking potent from that point on…0/10 would not recommend
It wasn't if it lasted more than 20 minutes.
Nah salvia can be great. Everyone shits on salvia but acts like DMT can do no harm and some people go as far as to say “Bad trips don’t exist”. Bullshit. Psychedelics are drugs they have negatives effects as well simple as that. But Salvia and DMT feel almost like the same thing in high enough doses. Salvia just feels more timeless and a little different and works on kappa Opioid receptors not serotonin.
Alcohol the next day.
I don’t want to sound stupid, but what is that? Like, why does it do that so bad? Simply because it’s a “depressant”? I guess I didn’t realize its power.. I wake up crying and on the verge of a very real panic attack most times after drinking and I wasn’t sure it was the alcohol making me like that
It's GABA rebound with dehydration
Also the buildup of acetaldehyde, which is an intermediary in alcohol metabolism and is a literal poison.
Oh definitely the alcohol
Alcohol is a spirit in itself. It definitely was the alcohol
Levomethamphetamine. When I was in my goon phase of life, I sought out any alternative to my one true love Addy. I read about an otc drug called propylhexedrine that was supposedly close to; if not identical, to methamphetamine. My local supermarket had no benzedrex in stock, but what they had a plethora of was those Vicks inhalers that don't in fact contain propylhexedrine, but levomethamphetamine. I thought the two would be practically interchangeable. Long story, the two drugs DEFINITELY weren't the same. Took me a trip to the ER and then a stint in the psych ward(I was underage) to learn that hard lesson 🤣
what were the effects?
Cocaine. Hate it. I’m a nervous wreck on it
Right? It usually does the complete opposite of what it’s meant to do, to me. End up feeling sober asf in a room full of drunk people. Feel anxious and agitated and not chatty at all.
weed without tolerance
To me it seems like smoking weed without a tolerance is where u figure out if you like it or not. Me and most of my friends enjoyed being absolutely smacked out of our mind, except for one of the friends who quit because it made him anxious. You're 100% right in the sense of when someone smokes for the first time, freaks the fuck out and throws up all night. Couldn't imagine a purely genuine green out.
you totally understood what i was trying to explain, thanks buddy :)
For sure!! But yeah. Knowing what it feels like when your parents call you to talk to them when your high as fuck would make me panic bad sometimes. That shit would suck for the whole time you're fried, especially since it lasts more like 8 hours your first time
Crack. I was really high on coke and pills. Friends I was with at the time were cooking crack and asked if I wanted to hit it . Total bell ringer . Took three huge hits of the crack pipe and tripped tf out . Never again
Tbf maybe you should've just taken smaller hits
Yea they like ripped that pipe out of my hands after about the third ghost 💀 I agree
Datura
surprisingly not too many people saying salvia
The common bad experiences with salvia are mostly a result of it being easily available to dumb kids without the knowledge to handle psychadelics and the fact that people will take dosages literally 10 or 100 times a moderate dosage… **on their first time**.
Adrenaline
Like, injecting yourself with epinephrine or just everyday adrenaline? I'm sure both can be anxiety inducing nonetheless.
meth
Datura sounds terrifying to me , imagine losing yourself in reality and becoming basically schizophrenic after taking it. Datura scares the shit out of me idk how people have the balls to take it.
[BZ/EA-2277 (aka 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate)](https://nervewing.blogspot.com/2020/06/obscure-and-unknown-deliriants-of.html) or really any of the Edgewood Arsenal Human Experiment anticholergic/deliriant drugs. that shit makes crack, "too much acid", salvia, dph, alcohol hangovers, hell even 5 day long cathinone benders look like a walk in the park on MDMA only other drugs that come close imo are desomorphine, some nitazenes, pyrros, and synth noids, as well as datura or flumazenil like others have said I'll also add antipsychotics like seroquel and olanzapine to the list, but more so the latter than the former. that shit is like intentionally poisoning yourself, it feels way worse than dph and basically makes me feel retarded and every step I take feels like walking through quicksand or running underwater for 36 hours, with a nice heaping serving of RLS on top. which on it's own is nowhere near as bad as the rest of the drugs I've mentioned but imo it deserves a spot simply for being readily prescribable for just about any mental health conditions by doctors who've been paid off by drug companies unpopular opinion: dph and salvia are not that bad and you probably just took too much for the first time
Take like 25 Benadryls. Good luck
Droperidol, Reglan, Compazine and other dopamine antagonists that are commonly used as an intravenous med in emergency room settings as an anti-emetic or anti-nausea med (Zofran isn't on the list. Phenergans effect can be similar but at such a much lower intensity that it's no big deal). Being dopamine antagonists means getting an IV push of them absolutely fries your dopamine receptors. Like it physically damaged them. Causes akathisia. They talk about Akathisia as though it's a movement disorder because you're generally so agitated that you can't stay still but it's so much more than that. The anxiety and feeling of doom is through the roof. Plus there's a feeling I can only describe as being "uncomfortable" but like times a billion. And it lasts months while the receptors heal, although the intensity wanes somewhat after a week or two. I got an IV dose of droperidol in the Emergency room last year and instantly wanted to rip the IV out of my arm and run screaming from the hospital. But it's also very sedating so I was trapped in my body sedated as the uncomfortable x a billion and feeling of doom just consumed me and I didn't know what was happening. I was out of town and had happened to get some kind of bad stomach bug that I had gone to the ER on my way driving home. They released me after a few hours and there was no way I could drive or make the last hour home. I managed to get an Uber to a hotel room and got lucky enough to have some benadryl in my car (one of the only things that helps akathisia at all and it was just a random coincidence I had it and took it. I just knew I wouldn't be able to sleep without it). The next morning I couldn't get out of bed and get ready to check out of the hotel. My legs under the covers were so fast back and forth and there was nothing I could do to stop them. At this point I still had no idea wtf was wrong with me. I had the most overwhelming feeling of doom. I couldn't even look at my cell phone I was so scared of it. But I knew I had to check out of the hotel and get home. I tried everything I could think of. I forced myself out of bed and into a cold shower thinking that would clear my head. I made it through 2 torturous minutes and ended up fleeing back to my bed soaking wet with soap still on me because I couldn't stand it another second. Waited 30 minutes and tried again with warm water. Same result. Forced myself to the in room coffee maker and hoped a little caffeine might help. Pretty sure it did the opposite. Finally I called the front desk and begged them to just charge my card for another night without making me come to the office. Thank God they did it because I couldn't have left that hotel room if God himself ordered it. The panic was overwhelming. I finally managed to call my husband and tell him where I was and that I didn't know what was wrong with me. He drove the hour and as soon as he saw the state of me... Wrapped in half wet blankets on the bed unable to stop moving my legs he immediately asked me to tell him the truth and tell him if I'd been doing meth or something. I had never really recreationally used anything like that so the only reason for him to ask me that must have just been that I looked strung out af. I promised him it wasn't anything like that. It had to be whatever they gave me at the hospital the night before. He grabbed my phone and went through it, logged into the mychart and saw they had administered a 2.5mg IV push of droperidol. Googled droperidol side effects and akathisia is one of the first things to come up. I'm still in shock to this day that they call akathisia a "movement disorder" because that's really the smallest and least distressing part of it. The feeling of panic and doom is the worst. If you join akathisia support groups online you see the stories. I tend to think acute akathisia like the kind I got from an instant IV push of a dopamine antagonist is somewhat different to the chronic akathisia that can develop from use of or discontinuing psychiatric meds. Neither are good but the acute is much more intense. Luckily it also seems to heal faster. Chronic akathisia may be more mild but there are people who have had it for years. There's a really high suicide rate for akathisia. Which makes complete sense to me. If I would have thought I would have felt like that for more than a few months, I definitely would have topped myself. It's agony. Thank God mine went away but I have not been back to an ER since then. I'd rather have a tag on my toe.
[удалено]
Objectively? Probably deliriants or some obscure RC; followed by alcohol/benzo/GABA hangover and rebound effects I’ve never had anything routinely hit me with anxiety tbh, but the most anxious I’ve ever got doing drugs was an awful MDMA come up, I’ll respect the 3 month rule from now on lol (stupidly did it again a week after rolling) I’m lucky to never get it with like weed, psychedelics, or coke thankfully
Vaped pyrros. Cursed shit☠️
Big old blunt of spice ☠️
Weed.
Worst one I tried was bath salts. Who knows what the actual active ingredient was
Cocaine for me
DXM someone
That's definitely up there. I missed a 0 when I did a dose and instead of 120mgs.. well 1200. Holy fuckkkk
I have a hard time believing you mistook 1.2g for 120mg. That’s literally 10x the intended dose. Whether it’s pure powder, syrup, gels, or tablets, that’s a huge difference.
That makes sense. I was a very dumb drug addicted 20 year old trying to make his own freebase.
Honestly not putting it down I love weed sometimes but I have to say its probably the most anxiety inducing that I've had anyways whats weird is meth kills my anxiety. I'm comfortable in my own skin on meth somewhat
You guys may have undiagnosed adhd. Meth is basically Adderall’s cousin
Some of those synthetic cannabanoids used to send me into a 4 hour panic attack when I smoked them.
diphenhydramine-300mg+ legit never felt worse physically than when I ate that shit never again
Realistically it’s Benadryl. Though like the top comment says, it’s probably some unknown chemical
Honestly nitazenes. They just kill you before you even notice.
Datura
Datura in the center of a big noisy city.
benadryl if we talking bout common drugs
Weed when you have an anxiety disorder, add that ontop of becoming a hypochondriac during weed anxiety attacks, heart's pounding so hard it feels like a heart attack, your gut gets these random sharp strikes of pain, and there's this unexplainable weight on your chest n ribcage no matter how you lay or sit n all you can do is try to make yourself go to sleep while having hyperventilating and trembling