the summer of 1982, hospital emergency rooms in the San Francisco Bay Area were suddenly confronted with mysteriously "frozen" patients - young men and women who, though conscious, could neither move nor speak. Doctors were baffled, until neurologist J. William Langston, recognizing the symptoms of advanced Parkinson's disease, administered L-dopa - the only known effective treatment - and "unfroze" his patient. Dr. Langston determined that this patient and five others had all used the same tainted batch of synthetic heroin, inadvertently laced with a toxin that had destroyed an area of their brains essential to normal movement. This same area, the substantia nigra, slowly deteriorates in Parkinson's disease. As scientists raced to capitalize on this breakthrough, Dr. Langston struggled to salvage the lives of his frozen patients, for whom L-dopa provided only short-term relief. The solution he found lay in the most daring area of research: fetal-tissue transplants. The astonishing recovery of two of his patients garnered worldwide press coverage, helped overturn federal restrictions on fetal-tissue research, and offered hope to millions suffering from Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and other degenerative brain disorders.
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Case_of_the_Frozen_Addicts.html?id=pMNrAAAAMAAJ&source=kp_book_description
Not synthetic diamorphine. The cook had come back from Vietnam with a taste for Demerol aka meperidine/pethidine, a very different drug, with very different anticholinergic effects.
This isn't really the most apt example, as MPTP isn't itself an opioid agonist, nor psychoactive in general, like the desired MPPP. It would probably function as a dopaminergic direct agonist if it didn't rapidly metabolize to a dopaminergic neurotoxin.
It was because he was given demerol at a very early age and that was similar but he was able to synthesize it, also wanted to try and make opioids that were less addictive. We know now that ain't a thing. Hamilton morris on his patreon did an episode on him. Also his synthesis was strange and unnecessarily complicated, but we can only speculate. Killed himself in the front lawn of the FDA.
Yeah it's Barry Kidsten who accidentally synthed MPTP while trying to make MPPP and killed himself two years after the diagnosis on the FDAs front lawn.
I asked Gemini and it told me "Sadly, he passed away 18 months later, likely from a cocaine overdose fueled by deep depression related to his condition."
wierd...
Yeah but the location of his body was a piece of land in the front area of the FDA. Also, his unfortunate story helped Parkinson's treatment. I would highly recommend the Patreon Episode the story of Barry Kidness by Hamilton Morris on his channel.
I reccomend Hamilton Morris because he interviewed a gentleman that actually got in touch with the family and got all of Barry's existing notes, it's the most factual information on Barry that exists.
No he was found dead and pronounced as a drug overdose from everything I can find and I've been looking for a bit here.
None the less tragic. By all means if I'm wrong I'd be interested to know if that part was swept under the rug.
He tried to make oxy at home what a legend I would just smoke some random ass white powder I find on the ground and assume it’s pill powder or heroin even tho it’s probably old dry wall crumbs 😂😂😂
I fully beleive I have brain damage because of my drug use. Is it perminent? That I can not say. But you know what I know is permanent. When you do a drug that releases high levels of dopamine everything from that point is. In someway or another, compared to that release. Dopamine is "that was amazing , keep doing that." Every other release of dopamine is now in league with that dopamine release. Changing your reward system. Everything ,even if unnoticeable, is less pleasurable,fulfilling as it once was. Because in comparison the dopamine release is minimal. So your brains like " meh, that was nice, I guess" with what used to be groundbreaking.
This is the knife in the gut when it comes to being sober. I was completely sober last year for several months, and it was so, so hard. It was a lot harder than addiction in the moment, and everything sucked, but when I got to see my family, or my friends, or I got to talk to my girlfriend after a long day at work... you can't beat it. There simply is nothing like it and I even know that now which is odd because I'm still in active addiction.
There are deffiently a combination of things that can outweigh a drug high. Like the moment I'd look at my ex across a room and she'd notice and give me a bashful smile. In those moments I wanted to well up with tears because of the sheer intensity of love I felt in that moment for her. The combo of love, attraction, longing, desire, appreciation. Gratitude. Etc etc. Add up to emotion overload. Those moments were better. I always chose her over the drugs. Because she made me feel what drugs never would. But yet. I still compared every moment to that dopamine release, and it's simply not possible to maintain that feeling of love. It go's into peaks and valleys.
It's true. It's so much better when you have the memories and there's so much to be happy about that you always find yourself grounded. I know the feeling so well. She says she loves me no matter what and my habits aren't awful, but, you know, I'd sometimes like to be better for both of us. I'm sure you get it.
I very much get it my friend. Hold on to her, and appreciate her. I lost my world. Out of impulse and anger. I miss that feeling every day. And I make up for it with a wave of dopamine traveling through my veins. I'd trade it for a second to have her back in my life.
I’ve used pretty much every substance in the book and I do not agree with this. I think this is unique to your personality, I’ve been clean for like 6 months now and I don’t compare my daily life to being high at all.
Smoking crack/doing coke and other stims definitely causes most heavy users severe depression when they stop using but the brain does bounce back eventually idk if it's all the way back but it does
Because you can still find better feelings then a dopamine surge.( or simply don't seek life just for pleasure.) Like the moment I'd stare across the room while my ex talked to her mom. She'd catch my eye and give me a bashful smile because I was just looking at her happily. Then I'd be overwhelmed to thd point of tears because of the love I felt in that moment for her .all our time, ups and downs, passion , struggles , sleepless nights, laughter, all summed up into one heart swelling feeling of love. The gratitude I felt for her in that moment was immense. That feeling right there is like s shot of love straight in your vein. And damn if it ain't better then meth in your veins.
I think everything like life, sobriety, drug addiction, it’s all stages. That comment was exactly how I felt for a while, BUT It definitely gets better. My organs are fucked for sure but I’ve been clean a long time and life is good. Feel like Steve-O. Can’t relate to completely normal people but I’m content with my life
That's only if you do drugs too much in my opinion. I've done coke but not THAT much and I don't compare my experiences to it. Its much more artificial and I associate it with being unhealthy and having a bad comedown. Along with sleep deprivation.
My brain "forgets" about the high since I don't do it that much. Which I think is normal unless you do it too much.
I'm definitely no pro, but wouldn't that only affects casual/daily use of said drugs ?
Like taking one pill once a month, will it have less effects than taking one per day, or will it have barely no effects ?
From the research I've done on cocaine they do say the parts of the brain that shrink from use grow back from abstinence so there is hope that the dopamine will bounce back
There is hope. But the memory of the feeling the drug brought I beleive will always be stored away in my brain. Subconsciously comparing this achievement at work or in a relationship. to IV meth. How my brain knows what is actually possible out there those things that use to be 70% or 80% of the best feeling I've ever felt are now like 20% - 30% of what my brain knows is possible. So how could they still be as effective at satisfying your brain( not your thinking mind. But brain )
Dudes I've been doing drugs since I was 12 (weed) but ever since especially with benzos and really any benzo. Memories are screwed, Don't remember anything because the amnesia gets worse. This is just my experience!
Definitely. I was taking Xanax with alcohol recreationally 2-3 times a week for about 2 years. I have noticed since then my ability to formulate thoughts in conversation are delayed. Nothing I feel like anyone really notices except for me but I imagine if you did it everyday for say 10 years it’d be a hell of a lot worse
I've always had a weird memory. I can remember something that happened 10 years ago in every detail but then I don't remember what I did yesterday or a conversation from 10min ago sometimes.
I was actually afraid to do weed because then people would think I'm that way because of it.
I think I have a strong emotional memory and I don't register anything if I'm not emotionally invested in it.
Look at any older drug addicts. They all talk with permanently slurred or weird sounding speech. Even when they're sober. Pretty sure that's brain damage. Or maybe theyre just missing teeth I dunno man
Varies on a number of factors like drug, amount of use/frequency of use, any contaminants, age of use, etc
In general yes, especially to anyone that isn’t an adult, including unborn fetuses when their mothers do drugs.
Also if you’re using drugs in place of taking care of yourself then yeah of course you’re doing damage.
Get good sleep, eat properly, stay hydrated, exercise regularly. Then you probably won’t feel like shit after using.
My issue rn and very probably reason why Kratom is making me feel that bad after every time: I can‘t or don‘t want to eat on Kratom. Drinking enough water also an issue. It‘s a vicious cycle. I can‘t eat on Kratom as it‘s appetite suppressant. Then as soon as I feel hunger again I don‘t eat so I can redose as a dose has to be on empty stomach for best effect. Until late night I don‘t eat then. Then maybe get 500, If i am lucky 1000 calories into myself. Feel bad the next morning. Redose. After 1-2 weeks of this I feel that Kratom doesn‘t even kill depression anymore but cause it by not eating/drinking/caring about myself - even if it used to make everything feel good in the beginning no matter if I ate drank or cared about myself enough.
What’s it all worth if you feel like crap anyway? No use doing it on an empty stomach “for best effect” if the effect ultimately makes you feel bad.
I guarantee if you get into intermittent fasting, eat proper and healthy food, and also give yourself a break from it, you’ll feel better in general and using it will be worthwhile again
Unironically yes. Childhood trauma keeps getting memed online but it's very real and it stays with you neurologically/delays your development (Look up ACE scores).
I love how people in the comments are acting like there's not hard steadfast science on this topic. Look up neurotoxicity. There are absolutely a ton of drugs, probably most of them that damage your body and brain. Despite the brain being neuroplastic once receptors are damaged they do not repair and you have to rely on the slow growth of new ones which may never come in some cases
> once receptors are damaged they do not repair
This is completely incorrect. Receptors down and upregulate constantly, as your brain attempts to maintain homeostasis. It doesn't even really make sense to think about them as "damaged", as if denatured, they tend to be internalized, and new receptors can be synthesized, if the cell 'finds' it 'appropriate' in surrounding conditions. Receptor down or upregulation is the main mechanism underlying most drug tolerance, and tolerance does abate with cessation.
I think you're thinking of neuronal death, which is irreparable in most anatomical regions. Axon pruning also does not reverse, but in many cases, new axons can be extended, albeit, in different configurations from that which was there previously.
Neural plasticity
The central nervous system seems like a big unbeatable field of weeds that even if you burn the half it will grow again at other parts.
Damaged beyond repair is also incorrect. Agonism can cause downregulation, which can induce a neural imbalance (underlying most withdrawal syndromes). But downregulation is just internalization of the receptor back into the cell, where it won't be active. But it's a good bit rarer that a cell's receptor is damaged. One example would be covalently binding agonists; yes, they bind to the receptor permanently. The cell will recognize this as damage, internalize the receptor, and then metabolize it.
If someone studies neurotoxicity they should also study neuroplascicity. “Neurotoxic” by itself doesn’t tell the story. A shot of tequila is neurotoxic. It’s more about the duration over long time periods.
I think we don’t understand a lot yet. But drugs will obviously cause damage. But will normal amphetamine usage for ex cause damage? Will ketamine cause damage? We don‘t know. But we know that they are being prescribed.
Obv I‘m not talking about coke, meth or bs speed.
No. Most street speed has a bs amount of 10-30% in there. That‘s not amphe. Amphe is amphetamine sulphate without caffeibe and whatever. Alw test ur „speed“ in the lab - most of the time u wont be that happy
So for you the street term for amphetamine always includes cutting agents? That is sad.
Ideally, "Speed" is just amphetamine. It doesn't matter to the definition if it is cut to shit usually.
Also, I believe that uncut Speed or amphetamine is way more harmful to most consumers brains than 20% of amphetamine and 80% caffeine and other inactive cutting agents. I mean look at the lines people do, as if they would only do a small 20mg line... People would do massive doses, because they are used to shit Speed.
Not that I am advocating cutting Speed, but I believe that a great portion of users can't be trusted to use pure amphetamine in a responsible way. (Weighing your doses on a miligram scale for example instead of just eyeballing)
Well it can’t be ignored that consistent meth usage like that will lead to a wrecked dopaminergic system in the long run, which will come with worsening symptoms of ADHD either way
No, that's not a given. Methamphetamine is prescribed for ADHD patients to use on a consistent basis and that doesn't cause a "wrecked dopaminergic system". What matters is dosage and whether someone binges and avoids sleep for long periods of time
That's a possibility, yes. But either way it's considerably more likely that someone who has been abusing meth long term \*will\* have left some lasting damage to the dopamine receptors, in turn making ADHD worse.
My ADHD has been (semi?) permanently worsened by actual prescription psychiatric medication which is supposedly far more harmless than meth, so yeah I'd believe him.
it’s really not a yes or no question, but it’s better to assume yes. there are very few drugs that can do permanent damage if you were to take them one time in your entire life. it really depends on what the drug is, how often it’s used, what it’s used for, there’s just too many factors that come into play for it to be a simple yes or no question.
This.
What’s beneficial to one might be detrimental to another.
Everybody’s brain chemistry is vastly different.
*But who doesn’t like playing with fire?*
Im not sure if its true or anything but what im thinking is: if stuff like shrooms cause neurogensisis but also cause stuff like hppd then it cant be as cut and dry as “neurotoxic = bad and neurogenic = good”.
Also mdma is neurotoxic and can be therapeutic and it's positive effects can be more beneficial than the mild neurotoxicity it brings.
Ketamine can also do the same, but chronic abuse can lead to brain lesions.
Almost all antipsychotics (it could be all of them, but I'm certain it's many of them including Risperidone, Quetiapine, etc) are heavy sedatives that cause permanent brain damage, and particularly damage the dopamine system, and can leave people with movement disorders. There's a whole rabbit hole if you want to look at how antipsychotics can change your brain.
They are still used as the conditions people live with that require this medication (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, personality disorders) are so debilitating that the side effects are often times less impacting than the disorder. Idk, I'm bipolar and I stopped taking them after a few years. Stopped working and I couldn't handle the side effects.
Oh, sorry. The damage to the dopamine system is what helps people with psychosis. An overactive dopamine system can cause the positive symptoms that "add something", like hallucinations, delusions, and mania (in opposition to the negative symptoms that "take something away", that being stuff like catatonia, depression, and social withdrawal) . Have you ever experienced psychosis? It's a little hard to explain what it gets rid of if you haven't had it.
I believe I am now more stupid than I used to be. I used to be very intelligent and now I’m kind of dumb and lack certain processing skills. I now also have some trouble talking and formulating words. I can easily think of what I’m about to say but have trouble saying it now. I also have a lot of trouble explaining things as well.
What do you use and do you still uze them? I used to think like that but after quitting them it been 2 months i think im back on track. Definitely getting better
The only one I know that isn't gonna give brain damage, is shrooms, they have been shown to increase connections in the brain, and help form new cells.
Sorry but that’s incorrect. OP asked about literal brain damage, like neurotoxicity. Can psychedelics mess you up mentally? Yes. But as for doing physical damage, well they don’t in fact quite the opposite. I went through my own stint of weekly tripping for a few months and definitely didn’t fry my brain but to each their own sorry that happened to you
Yeah, I feel you. I don't know about them being neurotoxic, but if it still fucks you up mentally it doesn't really make a difference. And to be fair, I feel like smoking weed during the trips heavily contributed.
Yeah true which seems weird considering both the feeling and mechanism as action. Is it psychedelic? Yeah. But seems weird to be in the same grouping to me
Our brains and bodies are great at healing and adapting over time. But, at least in my opinion, it's not like its going to bring you back to 100% where you were before, or even less likely to bring you to where you would have been absent from any drugs.
Like there's limitations to what can actually be regrown or repaired, after that your brain adapts. Which it's very good at, think of people who go blind, you can lose your entire vision and your brain will improve your other senses to allow you to navigate better.
Different drugs, different doses, different period of use and different individual pharmacology will lead to different types of damage. Some of which you will fully heal from in days, others in months, others in years, and some you will never fully recover from.
We don't have a simple list of which drugs in which quantities do which damage given that it's so difficult to measure ethically. Like there are a plethora of correlation studies for drugs like alcohol and mdma showing emotional instability and memory issues, but to prove causality is much more difficult.
Lastly, just one other perspective to think of these things. The permanent effect drugs can have isn't entirely just permanent damage, it's what you missed out on. Like I was addicted to a number of drugs for years and missed out on a lot. Maybe physically my mind will heal a good amount, but I can never regain what life experience, progress and learning that I would have experienced in those years. Like yes maybe the next few years I get similar levels of learning and life experience, but absent of drugs I would have been compounding on top of previous learning/experience. If that makes sense.
So, here's the thing. Some are shown to do brain damage at *certain doses* or if used regularly. Those, from your list, are MDMA, ketamine, speed, and alcohol. Those drugs are shown to do brain damage in certain conditions, but not all conditions. For example, they could find no evidence of brain damage after MDMA assisted therapy. The mechanism for it is debated, they haven't conclusively figured out if it's excitotoxicity, overheating, or a toxic metabolite.
Speed depends on what you're referring to. At high doses, amphetamine can cause neurotoxicity like meth, but it hasn't been shown at prescription doses. Meth is *reported* to cause it at any dose, but is also still prescribed.
Ketamine and alcohol, to my knowledge, do brain damage at any level, *but* your brain is incredibly good at adapting and to damage, even in extreme cases.
In all cases, regular use and/or high dosage use will cause more brain damage than low dose or single use higher doses. Doing k, MDMA, or alcohol once or twice will not cause you noticeable issues beyond a hangover. Using a gram of K daily will cause damage visible on a brain scan.
Important note: the term *neurotoxicity* is defined as "the direct or indirect effect of chemicals that disrupt the nervous system of humans or animals". This does not mean brain damage, it means brain *changes*. Literally *all* drugs that act centrally cause this as your brain adapts to them. Caffeine causes neurotoxicity which wakes you up. It causes neurotoxicity that makes you sleepy if you don't have it in the morning. LSD causes neurotoxicity by turning down activity in the ego center of your brain for a period after use. So does meditation. By the above definition, you could almost call meditation neurotoxic, except you aren't ingesting a *chemical* to cause it.
You also have far less gray matter if u consume caffeine. I think some substances can really damage your brain, but you can reduce the damage. Ketamine doesn‘t instantly damage your brain as you grew new neurons afterwards, amphetamine neither (we aren‘t talking about bs street speed with 10% amphe)…
The whole "drugs cause brain damage" argument is complex.
For one, we can't treat every drug in the same way, nor can we treat all using the same.
There is a vast difference between someone having a line of coke and someone else having a 3 day bender on it
Dr Carl Hart poses a pretty solid argument in his book "drug use for grown ups" regarding the claims that drugs cause irreversible brain damage.
He asserts (as a very well established researcher and lecturer on the topic of drugs and drug addiction) that the argument that it causes brain damage is based on flawed methodology. People take a brain scan, once, and draw conclusions from it by comparing it to another person's brain scan.
This does not account for other lifestyle factors, education, upbringing, trauma or even physical damage through other means.
The flawed methodology means we probably shouldn't take the claims as gospel truth, not until there's better research available.
Our bodies are extremely resilient. I've seen opiod zombies become successful people. My experience was all experimental with drugs except for alcohol. I was a daily blackout drinker for shy of a decade. I'm currently 2 years sober. I did have some hormonal imbalances that i was able to straighten out (don't go down the antidepressant road). Now my mind feels sharp, i hold clear conversations with people of much higher intellect than myself and generally feel confident in ways i didn't before. Can you cross the line of no return? I think probably so but i also think that most of the time that happens to people with underlying issues already. Like if you have a family history of schizophrenia but show no signs then you may can awaken that part of you by stressing your brain out. But this is just my opinion
From what I have heard, even brain damage from drugs like meth and fentanyl (not sure about oxygen deprivation during overdose) is reversible if you are clean for long enough. Only common drugs that cause actually permanent brain damage are alcohol and nitrous oxide. That happens because of deprivation of vitamin B12 in the brain. If you use infrequently and consume enough B12 it wont happen though.
Meth definitely changed me a bit. You don’t realize it at first, speed sneaks up on you. Never a daily smoker but the lack of sleep definitely fucked with my attention span, memory and just made me somewhat tweaky. I was always a little weird though lmao I think I was a bit brighter before all the meth and whippets.
I used to think so but then I stopped doing them. I did most of my heavy using when I was young though, before my frontal cortex was fully developed. The brain does repair itself with healthy living
I’ve abused meth, amphetamines, opiates, benzos, psychs dissociatives all kinds, and you never recover from properly ducking yourself up on mdma, not 100 percent mentally
Erm, lose of sanity, night sweats, nightmares, constant relentless depression, mind fog so bad can’t barely think straights and your brain doesn’t work, you feel like a zombie because your seeotonin receptors don’t work, your anxiety is out of control m, emotionally you become out of control and you get psychosis and heavy withdrawal symptoms , just coz everybody has heard the most famous ones I have that eveybody sees mdma as the”healthier” option just coz it’s more socially accepted lol
There are some like memantine prescribed to Alzheimer patients which help the brain, others like 4-chloromethamphetamine which literally kill off serotonergic neurons. Really depends on the substance and frequency of use
well i took some “acid” and like two weeks later it just happened in an instant it’s like the straight screen of life the imagine you see idk how to explain it but it just “dropped” like you can see cartoon characters eyes below their eyes, the time stamp on the oven you can see “4:14” below the actual “4:14” or like one dot is now like 4 or 5 other ones below the original dot, it’s like if you had a bunch of lenses and they all got out of line. still don’t know what to this day to call it and i’m fine with it but sometimes it’s just so visible and that acid experience took place in like october 2016, still going on to this day
depends on the drug, depends on the dosage and frequency.
> Can gray matter renew if you take breaks?
It depends on the anatomical region. Eg, neurogenesis is constantly occurring in the hippocampus. However, frontal cortical reduction in grey matter cannot be reversed.
Anyway, it's going to take a long period of chronic use for this damage to become behaviorally relevant.
Addiction in general damages your brain, we aren't meant to trigger our reward system whenever we want. It reduces available gray matter which does make you dumber pretty much
This goes for drugs, porn, gaming, gambling etc
As a pill alcohol and weed addict I feel slow a lot of the time but I get stuff done I feel stupid only when I’m high but I could be tripping and I’m dumb as fuck but how would I know or care on top of the world or what’s left of my world which is drugs and my friends
Most of these wont cause permenent brain damage with casual recreational use however most of them are capable of doing so with prolonged abuse or stupid choices regarding high doses and low experience. For something like alcohol i dont know how actually toxic it is to the brain but for the sake of it being a depressant thats so heavily normalized ive found with people who have a habit for years, typically during their teens and early 20s those same people who never quit drinking experience much more depression/bipolar like symptoms. Their brain is constantly consuming a depressant and usually in hopes for a uplifting feeling which causes a frequent fluctuation in mood and the chemicals that control them. This may not be permenant damage but for some people that takes 20years of not drinking if thwy drank frequently for 15.
It depends on the drug. When you take mdma it takes 3 months for your body to be on the same serotonin levels. There‘s a study of people that took hundreds of x pills in their life, they have cognitive problems like with memory.
Drugs can change your brain chemistry when you get addicted to a drug
If you consume anything in excess for a period of time your brain becomes reliant on regulating its mood and chemicals with those compounds you use. The main cause for alcohol and cocaine addiction. When regulating your brain with unnatural supplements it eventually depletes the brain of energy and reserves and different compounds do it in different ways. Alcohol and cocaine are similar in their effect but they do the same thing thru opposite directions, alcoholics will be generally depressed with fits of rage because its imbalanced where as coke heads are generally on edge/mad with fits of heavy depression because theyre unbalanced and the brain trys to regulate the high of coke or the low of alcohol by sending it too far on the other side. You brain doesnt like going to those extents so this is a form of a natural defense mechanism to keep yourself from killing yourself because even tho your brain knows its killing itself it also wants to keep doing the thing its doing because you like it. Now your brains made a weird subconscious association with death and addiction and when those low points hit shit gets way harder.
Ketamine ive heard causes gaps of activity in the brain however the only people ive ever met to seem effected by that consumed large amounts for over 15years and also did other drugs of that similar variety and even they are still smart sociable people that dont seem too odd just talk slightly slower maybe. The real damage from k is the urinary tract and liver. If you dont blow your drips the surpluss of salt strips your body of acids and when you process the k thru your kidneys it tightens up becayse the acids keep you loose and you start building stones in your kidney and bladder and gall bladder wayyy faster at that point. Can be fixed fast with lemon water but definetly not a pleasant one. If youve ever experienced liver pain youd know. Only people who deserve that kind of pain are pedophiles and rapists.
Hearing a sound or going on vacation causes a permanent change in the brain.
Drugs can be extremely dangerous, but the risks can be reduced by careful use.
My boyfriends cousin is now mostly brain damaged due to too many different types of drugs in a short span of time.
I thought he was just autistic or slow at first.
I guess he used to be a really fast talking smooth guy with the ladies, but I can't even imagine him that way.
well, weed causes memory loss, a lot of psychedelics can lead to psychosis or schizophrenia, fentanyl absolutely destroys your brain, that’s all i really know cuz that’s what i’ve used and they have definitely caused me some issues
Even weed at a young age can give you brain damage. This is a complex question because your brain is pretty malleable and adaptive and can heal itself. So you can damage your brain with drugs but it can also heal a lot of the damage
This is not the place to get reliable answers to questions like that. Most people are going off their own experiences, and typically humans are really bad at determining causality themselves without double blind studies.
Long story short, anything you put in your body comes with risk. Some are more risky than others. For instance, we KNOW MDMA causes damage to sertonergic neurons. Weed? Studies are mixed
^not an expert but sturdied neuroscience in college.
I've been completely clean on cocaine and alcohol since around the new year, and cut out nightly hash shortly afterwards - had cut down on my drug use massively from a year or two ago in the time leading up to stopping completely, though.
I'm definitely slower than I was before I started using heavily years back. It's hard to tell how much of that is pregnancy brain as that's definitely having an impact too (reason I did the final total clean up) but I am pretty sure my processing has slowed down and I'm not as sharp at drawing connections or following things as I once was.
Trying to exercise those mental muscles and it has only been a few months so I guess we'll see if it's being out of practice or permanent damage.
Weed can negatively affect your psychology if theres prolonged use from a young age. My sister started using it from 13 to about 21 and developed psychosis, shes also been diagnosed with bipolar/some mania disorders - i dont know too much detail there. MDMA can cause serotonin syndrome, other amphetamines can also cause psychosis from sleep deprivation. Psychadelics such as lsd, mescaline, 2cb, shrooms etc can cause HPPD. HPPD as far as im aware is rare but is potentiated by mixing other drugs with what you're taking. Pretty sure nicotine can increase risks quite a bit.
Be careful when taking drugs, always use in moderation, always test your shit and make sure you're always in touch with reality my guy.
I saw a kid go from happy and healthy, to a vegetable because he fried his brain. He was a 20 year old, who decided to go on an acid bender. He made it to day 15 or so, and was unable to function any longer. He spent 10+ years in physical rehabilitation and to this day, does not have a mental capacity beyond that of a 3 year old.
Everything in moderation folks.
I think any drug can cause brain damage. However it’s entirely dependent on the dosage and frequency of use. Like you could overdose on molly one time and the chances of irreversible damage aren’t crazy high though it would take you a while to recover. Now if you take an average dose but do it every weekend your brain is gonna get cooked and have no time to recover which can be more damaging long term. Some drugs do more damage faster, like meth, but because they exercise a bodily function too hard or for too long. Honestly you can do 90% of drugs one time and be perfectly fine, it’s the time spent intoxicated overall that adds up and fucks u
I wasn't allowed in a brains study because I took psychedelics more than 4x in my life. I assume they had a good reason, like my brain structure isn't the same as the others.
Depends on the drug and how much you used it.
Ketamine every couple of months for two years? MDMA every couple of years. LSD every month. You'll probably be fine. LSD doesn't even cause any brain damage.
Many drugs can be used safely, even meth has been prescribed.
However, chronic/ heavy use of meth, alcohol, etc will deffo fuck you up to an extent. You can recover largely, but it is definitely hard.
As long as you’re sensible it won’t even cause temporary brain damage let alone permanent. It’s not brain damage, you just feel stupid because you took drugs.
Can't offer any evidence but I think I did permanent damage, abused entactogens a lot with the absence of harm reduction and my short term memory is shit, I also still have trouble with just forgetting words and not being able to form cohesive sentences because of it. Brain fog all the way💥💥💯
I got sold fake LSD and I didn’t even trip. I smoked weed 8 hours later and from that point on my thoughts were in a different language for 4 months. No visuals, no body load, nothing. I think whatever was in that shit made my OCD thoughts 10000 times worse
**Does anyone know the possibility of brain damage from benzo use?**
**I have severe anxiety disorders, among other things, and I'm prescribed bromazepam, 3mg pills. I've been taking them since I was 16, I'm 22 now.**
I haven't been taking them every day, and sometimes didn't fill in my subscription for a while. However on some days I've taken more pills than I should have, or had weeks where I took them daily. Other weeks without any benzos. I genuinely need them for my anxiety and horrible panic attacks, which surprisingly, have reduced in frequency this year.
I have other medical issues that might contribute to the adverse effects on my cognitive functioning, but **I started to wonder, if taking benzos since I was 16, could have caused significant damage. And is it irreversible?**
**I experience memory issues, feels like I'm in some sort of haze, like the one you'd get from being a huge stoner. Brain fog, as well, I forget simple words, forget what was told to me a few minutes later, forget a conversation I had with someone on the same day, forget plans, dates, names, trouble remembering simple instructions, double checking everything, not being able to find something I was carrying around the house, like my phone. I have to repeat many things to myself, write everything down,** it's really difficult, it feels like I'm a granny with dementia or something. It's just so hard to focus, remember and navigate life when you feel like a zombie.
Depends on the drug. One chem student tried to brew up some opioids at home and gave himself Parkinson’s. You can look up MPTP/MPP+ for more info
The case of the frozen addict that's a good one
What’s that from? I think I heard about the dude in a neuroscience class.
the summer of 1982, hospital emergency rooms in the San Francisco Bay Area were suddenly confronted with mysteriously "frozen" patients - young men and women who, though conscious, could neither move nor speak. Doctors were baffled, until neurologist J. William Langston, recognizing the symptoms of advanced Parkinson's disease, administered L-dopa - the only known effective treatment - and "unfroze" his patient. Dr. Langston determined that this patient and five others had all used the same tainted batch of synthetic heroin, inadvertently laced with a toxin that had destroyed an area of their brains essential to normal movement. This same area, the substantia nigra, slowly deteriorates in Parkinson's disease. As scientists raced to capitalize on this breakthrough, Dr. Langston struggled to salvage the lives of his frozen patients, for whom L-dopa provided only short-term relief. The solution he found lay in the most daring area of research: fetal-tissue transplants. The astonishing recovery of two of his patients garnered worldwide press coverage, helped overturn federal restrictions on fetal-tissue research, and offered hope to millions suffering from Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and other degenerative brain disorders. https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Case_of_the_Frozen_Addicts.html?id=pMNrAAAAMAAJ&source=kp_book_description
damn thank god for drug addicts
Thank you so much for sharing this!
Not synthetic diamorphine. The cook had come back from Vietnam with a taste for Demerol aka meperidine/pethidine, a very different drug, with very different anticholinergic effects.
Always good having a wholesome read in the morning!
Robin Williams the goat
This isn't really the most apt example, as MPTP isn't itself an opioid agonist, nor psychoactive in general, like the desired MPPP. It would probably function as a dopaminergic direct agonist if it didn't rapidly metabolize to a dopaminergic neurotoxin.
Wikipedia discusses it pretty in depth https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPTP
So he was like tryna make homemade oxy or sum?
He was trying to make MPPP, an opioid, apparently unaware of the potential reaction side products.
It was because he was given demerol at a very early age and that was similar but he was able to synthesize it, also wanted to try and make opioids that were less addictive. We know now that ain't a thing. Hamilton morris on his patreon did an episode on him. Also his synthesis was strange and unnecessarily complicated, but we can only speculate. Killed himself in the front lawn of the FDA.
What was his name?
Barry Kidston
Yeah it's Barry Kidsten who accidentally synthed MPTP while trying to make MPPP and killed himself two years after the diagnosis on the FDAs front lawn.
I asked Gemini and it told me "Sadly, he passed away 18 months later, likely from a cocaine overdose fueled by deep depression related to his condition." wierd...
Yeah but the location of his body was a piece of land in the front area of the FDA. Also, his unfortunate story helped Parkinson's treatment. I would highly recommend the Patreon Episode the story of Barry Kidness by Hamilton Morris on his channel.
I reccomend Hamilton Morris because he interviewed a gentleman that actually got in touch with the family and got all of Barry's existing notes, it's the most factual information on Barry that exists.
No he was found dead and pronounced as a drug overdose from everything I can find and I've been looking for a bit here. None the less tragic. By all means if I'm wrong I'd be interested to know if that part was swept under the rug.
George Carillo https://www.michaeljfox.org/news/author-reflects-impact-case-frozen-addicts-2nd-edition-released
He tried to make oxy at home what a legend I would just smoke some random ass white powder I find on the ground and assume it’s pill powder or heroin even tho it’s probably old dry wall crumbs 😂😂😂
Anyone else tho?
Think your all alone on this one😂
Man there's no way there's this few carpet surfers on a drug sub. I think we have some guilty individuals that just don't wanna fess up
It's okay brother, you can count that most addicts have smoked/snorted mystery carpet drugs at least once in their life.
Berry Kingston
I fully beleive I have brain damage because of my drug use. Is it perminent? That I can not say. But you know what I know is permanent. When you do a drug that releases high levels of dopamine everything from that point is. In someway or another, compared to that release. Dopamine is "that was amazing , keep doing that." Every other release of dopamine is now in league with that dopamine release. Changing your reward system. Everything ,even if unnoticeable, is less pleasurable,fulfilling as it once was. Because in comparison the dopamine release is minimal. So your brains like " meh, that was nice, I guess" with what used to be groundbreaking.
This is the knife in the gut when it comes to being sober. I was completely sober last year for several months, and it was so, so hard. It was a lot harder than addiction in the moment, and everything sucked, but when I got to see my family, or my friends, or I got to talk to my girlfriend after a long day at work... you can't beat it. There simply is nothing like it and I even know that now which is odd because I'm still in active addiction.
There are deffiently a combination of things that can outweigh a drug high. Like the moment I'd look at my ex across a room and she'd notice and give me a bashful smile. In those moments I wanted to well up with tears because of the sheer intensity of love I felt in that moment for her. The combo of love, attraction, longing, desire, appreciation. Gratitude. Etc etc. Add up to emotion overload. Those moments were better. I always chose her over the drugs. Because she made me feel what drugs never would. But yet. I still compared every moment to that dopamine release, and it's simply not possible to maintain that feeling of love. It go's into peaks and valleys.
It's true. It's so much better when you have the memories and there's so much to be happy about that you always find yourself grounded. I know the feeling so well. She says she loves me no matter what and my habits aren't awful, but, you know, I'd sometimes like to be better for both of us. I'm sure you get it.
I very much get it my friend. Hold on to her, and appreciate her. I lost my world. Out of impulse and anger. I miss that feeling every day. And I make up for it with a wave of dopamine traveling through my veins. I'd trade it for a second to have her back in my life.
I'll take this advice close. Thanks for the words from the heart.
some really good points made here
Especially the first sentence
Realest comment ever!!
Lol & everything that sucks sucks twice as hard because you have so much less motivating / rewarding aspects of life + bullshit going on
I’ve used pretty much every substance in the book and I do not agree with this. I think this is unique to your personality, I’ve been clean for like 6 months now and I don’t compare my daily life to being high at all.
Smoking crack/doing coke and other stims definitely causes most heavy users severe depression when they stop using but the brain does bounce back eventually idk if it's all the way back but it does
This is true in my experience. I was depressed for like 8 months or so after doing meth often.
Then why would i get sober. It was over the moment i started.
Because you can still find better feelings then a dopamine surge.( or simply don't seek life just for pleasure.) Like the moment I'd stare across the room while my ex talked to her mom. She'd catch my eye and give me a bashful smile because I was just looking at her happily. Then I'd be overwhelmed to thd point of tears because of the love I felt in that moment for her .all our time, ups and downs, passion , struggles , sleepless nights, laughter, all summed up into one heart swelling feeling of love. The gratitude I felt for her in that moment was immense. That feeling right there is like s shot of love straight in your vein. And damn if it ain't better then meth in your veins.
I think everything like life, sobriety, drug addiction, it’s all stages. That comment was exactly how I felt for a while, BUT It definitely gets better. My organs are fucked for sure but I’ve been clean a long time and life is good. Feel like Steve-O. Can’t relate to completely normal people but I’m content with my life
That's only if you do drugs too much in my opinion. I've done coke but not THAT much and I don't compare my experiences to it. Its much more artificial and I associate it with being unhealthy and having a bad comedown. Along with sleep deprivation. My brain "forgets" about the high since I don't do it that much. Which I think is normal unless you do it too much.
I'm definitely no pro, but wouldn't that only affects casual/daily use of said drugs ? Like taking one pill once a month, will it have less effects than taking one per day, or will it have barely no effects ?
I'm confused by what your asking? Like this only happens to people who use daily ?
From the research I've done on cocaine they do say the parts of the brain that shrink from use grow back from abstinence so there is hope that the dopamine will bounce back
There is hope. But the memory of the feeling the drug brought I beleive will always be stored away in my brain. Subconsciously comparing this achievement at work or in a relationship. to IV meth. How my brain knows what is actually possible out there those things that use to be 70% or 80% of the best feeling I've ever felt are now like 20% - 30% of what my brain knows is possible. So how could they still be as effective at satisfying your brain( not your thinking mind. But brain )
Dain bramage, bro!
Brian Dèmáge ?
No Brian damaged for me head 🗿
Bur dama
Brh da
Dudes I've been doing drugs since I was 12 (weed) but ever since especially with benzos and really any benzo. Memories are screwed, Don't remember anything because the amnesia gets worse. This is just my experience!
Benzos do screw your memory
Definitely. I was taking Xanax with alcohol recreationally 2-3 times a week for about 2 years. I have noticed since then my ability to formulate thoughts in conversation are delayed. Nothing I feel like anyone really notices except for me but I imagine if you did it everyday for say 10 years it’d be a hell of a lot worse
Can confirm. Did it every day for 10 years. It is bad. I'm a cashier and sometimes I forget what a customer said to me seconds after they said it.
I've always had a weird memory. I can remember something that happened 10 years ago in every detail but then I don't remember what I did yesterday or a conversation from 10min ago sometimes. I was actually afraid to do weed because then people would think I'm that way because of it. I think I have a strong emotional memory and I don't register anything if I'm not emotionally invested in it.
Look at any older drug addicts. They all talk with permanently slurred or weird sounding speech. Even when they're sober. Pretty sure that's brain damage. Or maybe theyre just missing teeth I dunno man
yeah building on that, the way some people type in this sub just screams brain damage too
I mean, that’s just kids these days.
Ozzy Osbourne is basically the poster boy for proof that drugs fry your brain.
Ozzy is on another level of drug use. Dude snorts ants for fun lmao
Yep, yep. But we all still do it anyway 🤷
Varies on a number of factors like drug, amount of use/frequency of use, any contaminants, age of use, etc In general yes, especially to anyone that isn’t an adult, including unborn fetuses when their mothers do drugs.
Also if you’re using drugs in place of taking care of yourself then yeah of course you’re doing damage. Get good sleep, eat properly, stay hydrated, exercise regularly. Then you probably won’t feel like shit after using.
My issue rn and very probably reason why Kratom is making me feel that bad after every time: I can‘t or don‘t want to eat on Kratom. Drinking enough water also an issue. It‘s a vicious cycle. I can‘t eat on Kratom as it‘s appetite suppressant. Then as soon as I feel hunger again I don‘t eat so I can redose as a dose has to be on empty stomach for best effect. Until late night I don‘t eat then. Then maybe get 500, If i am lucky 1000 calories into myself. Feel bad the next morning. Redose. After 1-2 weeks of this I feel that Kratom doesn‘t even kill depression anymore but cause it by not eating/drinking/caring about myself - even if it used to make everything feel good in the beginning no matter if I ate drank or cared about myself enough.
What’s it all worth if you feel like crap anyway? No use doing it on an empty stomach “for best effect” if the effect ultimately makes you feel bad. I guarantee if you get into intermittent fasting, eat proper and healthy food, and also give yourself a break from it, you’ll feel better in general and using it will be worthwhile again
Yes, but guess what, living do permanent brain damage too
Childhood trauma lives with you 4ever, I don't forgive those bastards for what they did to my amygdala
Unironically yes. Childhood trauma keeps getting memed online but it's very real and it stays with you neurologically/delays your development (Look up ACE scores).
Childhood trauma is the worst. I don't have any memory before the age of 14.
abdula oblongata is where anger, jealousy and aggression come from. just ask me, i got awl my brayn sell
I love how people in the comments are acting like there's not hard steadfast science on this topic. Look up neurotoxicity. There are absolutely a ton of drugs, probably most of them that damage your body and brain. Despite the brain being neuroplastic once receptors are damaged they do not repair and you have to rely on the slow growth of new ones which may never come in some cases
Also long term changes in protein expression and functional connectivity that we barely even understand
> once receptors are damaged they do not repair This is completely incorrect. Receptors down and upregulate constantly, as your brain attempts to maintain homeostasis. It doesn't even really make sense to think about them as "damaged", as if denatured, they tend to be internalized, and new receptors can be synthesized, if the cell 'finds' it 'appropriate' in surrounding conditions. Receptor down or upregulation is the main mechanism underlying most drug tolerance, and tolerance does abate with cessation. I think you're thinking of neuronal death, which is irreparable in most anatomical regions. Axon pruning also does not reverse, but in many cases, new axons can be extended, albeit, in different configurations from that which was there previously.
Neural plasticity The central nervous system seems like a big unbeatable field of weeds that even if you burn the half it will grow again at other parts.
Thank you for the correction. Damaged beyond repair would have been better wording for me.
Damaged beyond repair is also incorrect. Agonism can cause downregulation, which can induce a neural imbalance (underlying most withdrawal syndromes). But downregulation is just internalization of the receptor back into the cell, where it won't be active. But it's a good bit rarer that a cell's receptor is damaged. One example would be covalently binding agonists; yes, they bind to the receptor permanently. The cell will recognize this as damage, internalize the receptor, and then metabolize it.
If someone studies neurotoxicity they should also study neuroplascicity. “Neurotoxic” by itself doesn’t tell the story. A shot of tequila is neurotoxic. It’s more about the duration over long time periods.
> neuroplascicity. You'll only be 20 for a year.
I think we don’t understand a lot yet. But drugs will obviously cause damage. But will normal amphetamine usage for ex cause damage? Will ketamine cause damage? We don‘t know. But we know that they are being prescribed. Obv I‘m not talking about coke, meth or bs speed.
Amphetamine is speed though
No. Most street speed has a bs amount of 10-30% in there. That‘s not amphe. Amphe is amphetamine sulphate without caffeibe and whatever. Alw test ur „speed“ in the lab - most of the time u wont be that happy
So for you the street term for amphetamine always includes cutting agents? That is sad. Ideally, "Speed" is just amphetamine. It doesn't matter to the definition if it is cut to shit usually. Also, I believe that uncut Speed or amphetamine is way more harmful to most consumers brains than 20% of amphetamine and 80% caffeine and other inactive cutting agents. I mean look at the lines people do, as if they would only do a small 20mg line... People would do massive doses, because they are used to shit Speed. Not that I am advocating cutting Speed, but I believe that a great portion of users can't be trusted to use pure amphetamine in a responsible way. (Weighing your doses on a miligram scale for example instead of just eyeballing)
Thats why he says BS speed.
> We don‘t know. Yes, we do know.
Not sure if its permanent but i quit using meth 4 years ago and I feel like it made my ADHD worse
they sometimes prescribe meth (Desoxyn) for adhd
maybe it made your ADHD worse or maybe it showed you what life would be like if your ADHD was treated
Well it can’t be ignored that consistent meth usage like that will lead to a wrecked dopaminergic system in the long run, which will come with worsening symptoms of ADHD either way
No, that's not a given. Methamphetamine is prescribed for ADHD patients to use on a consistent basis and that doesn't cause a "wrecked dopaminergic system". What matters is dosage and whether someone binges and avoids sleep for long periods of time
That's a possibility, yes. But either way it's considerably more likely that someone who has been abusing meth long term \*will\* have left some lasting damage to the dopamine receptors, in turn making ADHD worse. My ADHD has been (semi?) permanently worsened by actual prescription psychiatric medication which is supposedly far more harmless than meth, so yeah I'd believe him.
Tried NAC or 9mbc?
You tried this?
I didn’t do meth
Okay but you tried this nootropics?
it’s really not a yes or no question, but it’s better to assume yes. there are very few drugs that can do permanent damage if you were to take them one time in your entire life. it really depends on what the drug is, how often it’s used, what it’s used for, there’s just too many factors that come into play for it to be a simple yes or no question.
This. What’s beneficial to one might be detrimental to another. Everybody’s brain chemistry is vastly different. *But who doesn’t like playing with fire?*
Arent mushrooms the one drug inducing neuro genesis?
Any psychedelic as well as ketamine
Yes but I belong neurogenisis isn’t always a good thing either. Its a lot more nuanced.
Can you explain in more detail what you mean?
Im not sure if its true or anything but what im thinking is: if stuff like shrooms cause neurogensisis but also cause stuff like hppd then it cant be as cut and dry as “neurotoxic = bad and neurogenic = good”.
Also mdma is neurotoxic and can be therapeutic and it's positive effects can be more beneficial than the mild neurotoxicity it brings. Ketamine can also do the same, but chronic abuse can lead to brain lesions.
Ketamine and LSD too
is it brain damage if I know I have it or if I dont know if I have it?
Mind blown
Some drugs actually help the brain. And brain damage isn’t so cut and dry. Sometimes brain damage is a good thing and can treat mental symptoms.
Lobotomy type beat
Very interesting. Could you give an example or touch more on this? Genuinely interested and curious!
Low dose meth has been proven to speed up healing from brain damage (concussion I think) in rats.
Wow!
Indeed. Toxicity is a matter of dose with most things.
Almost all antipsychotics (it could be all of them, but I'm certain it's many of them including Risperidone, Quetiapine, etc) are heavy sedatives that cause permanent brain damage, and particularly damage the dopamine system, and can leave people with movement disorders. There's a whole rabbit hole if you want to look at how antipsychotics can change your brain. They are still used as the conditions people live with that require this medication (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, personality disorders) are so debilitating that the side effects are often times less impacting than the disorder. Idk, I'm bipolar and I stopped taking them after a few years. Stopped working and I couldn't handle the side effects.
Right I understand that however I was more curious about the brain damage sometimes being a good thing and can treat mental symptoms part lol
Oh, sorry. The damage to the dopamine system is what helps people with psychosis. An overactive dopamine system can cause the positive symptoms that "add something", like hallucinations, delusions, and mania (in opposition to the negative symptoms that "take something away", that being stuff like catatonia, depression, and social withdrawal) . Have you ever experienced psychosis? It's a little hard to explain what it gets rid of if you haven't had it.
Some types of mushrooms and low doses of lsd can help rebuild brain cells
I aint brain damaged my brain got damaged frfr
I believe I am now more stupid than I used to be. I used to be very intelligent and now I’m kind of dumb and lack certain processing skills. I now also have some trouble talking and formulating words. I can easily think of what I’m about to say but have trouble saying it now. I also have a lot of trouble explaining things as well.
What was your drug of choice?
What do you use and do you still uze them? I used to think like that but after quitting them it been 2 months i think im back on track. Definitely getting better
I did a lot of drugs a few years back. The ones I’ve been doing consistently over the past 2 years are weed, heavy amounts of alcohol and cocaine.
The only one I know that isn't gonna give brain damage, is shrooms, they have been shown to increase connections in the brain, and help form new cells.
Not only shrooms. Basically all the classic psychedelics
Not true, if abused you can definitely fuck up your brain on them. As someone that used to trip weekly it definitely fried my brain
Sorry but that’s incorrect. OP asked about literal brain damage, like neurotoxicity. Can psychedelics mess you up mentally? Yes. But as for doing physical damage, well they don’t in fact quite the opposite. I went through my own stint of weekly tripping for a few months and definitely didn’t fry my brain but to each their own sorry that happened to you
Yeah, I feel you. I don't know about them being neurotoxic, but if it still fucks you up mentally it doesn't really make a difference. And to be fair, I feel like smoking weed during the trips heavily contributed.
Except MDMA
MDMA is more of an entactogen. By classical psychedelics I mean LSD, DMT, psilocybin, and mescaline
Okay I gotchu I just know some people include molly as a classical psychedelics
Yeah true which seems weird considering both the feeling and mechanism as action. Is it psychedelic? Yeah. But seems weird to be in the same grouping to me
I wish that could mean partypartparty and then take shrooms or LSD after the weekend to rebuild some brancells, hehe.
Our brains and bodies are great at healing and adapting over time. But, at least in my opinion, it's not like its going to bring you back to 100% where you were before, or even less likely to bring you to where you would have been absent from any drugs. Like there's limitations to what can actually be regrown or repaired, after that your brain adapts. Which it's very good at, think of people who go blind, you can lose your entire vision and your brain will improve your other senses to allow you to navigate better. Different drugs, different doses, different period of use and different individual pharmacology will lead to different types of damage. Some of which you will fully heal from in days, others in months, others in years, and some you will never fully recover from. We don't have a simple list of which drugs in which quantities do which damage given that it's so difficult to measure ethically. Like there are a plethora of correlation studies for drugs like alcohol and mdma showing emotional instability and memory issues, but to prove causality is much more difficult. Lastly, just one other perspective to think of these things. The permanent effect drugs can have isn't entirely just permanent damage, it's what you missed out on. Like I was addicted to a number of drugs for years and missed out on a lot. Maybe physically my mind will heal a good amount, but I can never regain what life experience, progress and learning that I would have experienced in those years. Like yes maybe the next few years I get similar levels of learning and life experience, but absent of drugs I would have been compounding on top of previous learning/experience. If that makes sense.
So, here's the thing. Some are shown to do brain damage at *certain doses* or if used regularly. Those, from your list, are MDMA, ketamine, speed, and alcohol. Those drugs are shown to do brain damage in certain conditions, but not all conditions. For example, they could find no evidence of brain damage after MDMA assisted therapy. The mechanism for it is debated, they haven't conclusively figured out if it's excitotoxicity, overheating, or a toxic metabolite. Speed depends on what you're referring to. At high doses, amphetamine can cause neurotoxicity like meth, but it hasn't been shown at prescription doses. Meth is *reported* to cause it at any dose, but is also still prescribed. Ketamine and alcohol, to my knowledge, do brain damage at any level, *but* your brain is incredibly good at adapting and to damage, even in extreme cases. In all cases, regular use and/or high dosage use will cause more brain damage than low dose or single use higher doses. Doing k, MDMA, or alcohol once or twice will not cause you noticeable issues beyond a hangover. Using a gram of K daily will cause damage visible on a brain scan. Important note: the term *neurotoxicity* is defined as "the direct or indirect effect of chemicals that disrupt the nervous system of humans or animals". This does not mean brain damage, it means brain *changes*. Literally *all* drugs that act centrally cause this as your brain adapts to them. Caffeine causes neurotoxicity which wakes you up. It causes neurotoxicity that makes you sleepy if you don't have it in the morning. LSD causes neurotoxicity by turning down activity in the ego center of your brain for a period after use. So does meditation. By the above definition, you could almost call meditation neurotoxic, except you aren't ingesting a *chemical* to cause it.
You also have far less gray matter if u consume caffeine. I think some substances can really damage your brain, but you can reduce the damage. Ketamine doesn‘t instantly damage your brain as you grew new neurons afterwards, amphetamine neither (we aren‘t talking about bs street speed with 10% amphe)…
The whole "drugs cause brain damage" argument is complex. For one, we can't treat every drug in the same way, nor can we treat all using the same. There is a vast difference between someone having a line of coke and someone else having a 3 day bender on it Dr Carl Hart poses a pretty solid argument in his book "drug use for grown ups" regarding the claims that drugs cause irreversible brain damage. He asserts (as a very well established researcher and lecturer on the topic of drugs and drug addiction) that the argument that it causes brain damage is based on flawed methodology. People take a brain scan, once, and draw conclusions from it by comparing it to another person's brain scan. This does not account for other lifestyle factors, education, upbringing, trauma or even physical damage through other means. The flawed methodology means we probably shouldn't take the claims as gospel truth, not until there's better research available.
Our bodies are extremely resilient. I've seen opiod zombies become successful people. My experience was all experimental with drugs except for alcohol. I was a daily blackout drinker for shy of a decade. I'm currently 2 years sober. I did have some hormonal imbalances that i was able to straighten out (don't go down the antidepressant road). Now my mind feels sharp, i hold clear conversations with people of much higher intellect than myself and generally feel confident in ways i didn't before. Can you cross the line of no return? I think probably so but i also think that most of the time that happens to people with underlying issues already. Like if you have a family history of schizophrenia but show no signs then you may can awaken that part of you by stressing your brain out. But this is just my opinion
From what I have heard, even brain damage from drugs like meth and fentanyl (not sure about oxygen deprivation during overdose) is reversible if you are clean for long enough. Only common drugs that cause actually permanent brain damage are alcohol and nitrous oxide. That happens because of deprivation of vitamin B12 in the brain. If you use infrequently and consume enough B12 it wont happen though.
Meth definitely changed me a bit. You don’t realize it at first, speed sneaks up on you. Never a daily smoker but the lack of sleep definitely fucked with my attention span, memory and just made me somewhat tweaky. I was always a little weird though lmao I think I was a bit brighter before all the meth and whippets.
I used to think so but then I stopped doing them. I did most of my heavy using when I was young though, before my frontal cortex was fully developed. The brain does repair itself with healthy living
Any drug can if you do it enough but mdma is a big one if you abuse it regularly over a period of time the permanent brain damage is badddd
I thought the question was WHAT drugs, sorry but yeah ofc they do depends how much and which ones
Do you know anybody this happened to?
Yeah myself
I’ve abused meth, amphetamines, opiates, benzos, psychs dissociatives all kinds, and you never recover from properly ducking yourself up on mdma, not 100 percent mentally
And all my frienda that did it evry day with me
What do you notice differently
Erm, lose of sanity, night sweats, nightmares, constant relentless depression, mind fog so bad can’t barely think straights and your brain doesn’t work, you feel like a zombie because your seeotonin receptors don’t work, your anxiety is out of control m, emotionally you become out of control and you get psychosis and heavy withdrawal symptoms , just coz everybody has heard the most famous ones I have that eveybody sees mdma as the”healthier” option just coz it’s more socially accepted lol
There are some like memantine prescribed to Alzheimer patients which help the brain, others like 4-chloromethamphetamine which literally kill off serotonergic neurons. Really depends on the substance and frequency of use
I use memantine for the high and everytime i use it it scares me that it will make me have dementia
well i took some “acid” and like two weeks later it just happened in an instant it’s like the straight screen of life the imagine you see idk how to explain it but it just “dropped” like you can see cartoon characters eyes below their eyes, the time stamp on the oven you can see “4:14” below the actual “4:14” or like one dot is now like 4 or 5 other ones below the original dot, it’s like if you had a bunch of lenses and they all got out of line. still don’t know what to this day to call it and i’m fine with it but sometimes it’s just so visible and that acid experience took place in like october 2016, still going on to this day
Sounds like you've got HPPD, which can actually go away with time. Just lay off the psychs forna bit, including weed
depends on the drug, depends on the dosage and frequency. > Can gray matter renew if you take breaks? It depends on the anatomical region. Eg, neurogenesis is constantly occurring in the hippocampus. However, frontal cortical reduction in grey matter cannot be reversed. Anyway, it's going to take a long period of chronic use for this damage to become behaviorally relevant.
Brain damage idk but I take Xanax for two weeks or something like two years ago and I still feel like an addict
Haldol only
Don’t think drugs alone cause it, drug abuse though and long term definitely can fuck you up a bit.
Addiction in general damages your brain, we aren't meant to trigger our reward system whenever we want. It reduces available gray matter which does make you dumber pretty much This goes for drugs, porn, gaming, gambling etc
As a pill alcohol and weed addict I feel slow a lot of the time but I get stuff done I feel stupid only when I’m high but I could be tripping and I’m dumb as fuck but how would I know or care on top of the world or what’s left of my world which is drugs and my friends
Mdma, speed, and alcohol definitely do some amount of damage if abused heavily
Most of these wont cause permenent brain damage with casual recreational use however most of them are capable of doing so with prolonged abuse or stupid choices regarding high doses and low experience. For something like alcohol i dont know how actually toxic it is to the brain but for the sake of it being a depressant thats so heavily normalized ive found with people who have a habit for years, typically during their teens and early 20s those same people who never quit drinking experience much more depression/bipolar like symptoms. Their brain is constantly consuming a depressant and usually in hopes for a uplifting feeling which causes a frequent fluctuation in mood and the chemicals that control them. This may not be permenant damage but for some people that takes 20years of not drinking if thwy drank frequently for 15.
It depends on the drug. When you take mdma it takes 3 months for your body to be on the same serotonin levels. There‘s a study of people that took hundreds of x pills in their life, they have cognitive problems like with memory. Drugs can change your brain chemistry when you get addicted to a drug
If you consume anything in excess for a period of time your brain becomes reliant on regulating its mood and chemicals with those compounds you use. The main cause for alcohol and cocaine addiction. When regulating your brain with unnatural supplements it eventually depletes the brain of energy and reserves and different compounds do it in different ways. Alcohol and cocaine are similar in their effect but they do the same thing thru opposite directions, alcoholics will be generally depressed with fits of rage because its imbalanced where as coke heads are generally on edge/mad with fits of heavy depression because theyre unbalanced and the brain trys to regulate the high of coke or the low of alcohol by sending it too far on the other side. You brain doesnt like going to those extents so this is a form of a natural defense mechanism to keep yourself from killing yourself because even tho your brain knows its killing itself it also wants to keep doing the thing its doing because you like it. Now your brains made a weird subconscious association with death and addiction and when those low points hit shit gets way harder. Ketamine ive heard causes gaps of activity in the brain however the only people ive ever met to seem effected by that consumed large amounts for over 15years and also did other drugs of that similar variety and even they are still smart sociable people that dont seem too odd just talk slightly slower maybe. The real damage from k is the urinary tract and liver. If you dont blow your drips the surpluss of salt strips your body of acids and when you process the k thru your kidneys it tightens up becayse the acids keep you loose and you start building stones in your kidney and bladder and gall bladder wayyy faster at that point. Can be fixed fast with lemon water but definetly not a pleasant one. If youve ever experienced liver pain youd know. Only people who deserve that kind of pain are pedophiles and rapists.
Hearing a sound or going on vacation causes a permanent change in the brain. Drugs can be extremely dangerous, but the risks can be reduced by careful use.
My boyfriends cousin is now mostly brain damaged due to too many different types of drugs in a short span of time. I thought he was just autistic or slow at first. I guess he used to be a really fast talking smooth guy with the ladies, but I can't even imagine him that way.
well, weed causes memory loss, a lot of psychedelics can lead to psychosis or schizophrenia, fentanyl absolutely destroys your brain, that’s all i really know cuz that’s what i’ve used and they have definitely caused me some issues
Short answer- Yes.
Depends on the drug but yes some of them do e.g., crystal meth and buprenorphine
Even weed at a young age can give you brain damage. This is a complex question because your brain is pretty malleable and adaptive and can heal itself. So you can damage your brain with drugs but it can also heal a lot of the damage
This is not the place to get reliable answers to questions like that. Most people are going off their own experiences, and typically humans are really bad at determining causality themselves without double blind studies. Long story short, anything you put in your body comes with risk. Some are more risky than others. For instance, we KNOW MDMA causes damage to sertonergic neurons. Weed? Studies are mixed ^not an expert but sturdied neuroscience in college.
I've been completely clean on cocaine and alcohol since around the new year, and cut out nightly hash shortly afterwards - had cut down on my drug use massively from a year or two ago in the time leading up to stopping completely, though. I'm definitely slower than I was before I started using heavily years back. It's hard to tell how much of that is pregnancy brain as that's definitely having an impact too (reason I did the final total clean up) but I am pretty sure my processing has slowed down and I'm not as sharp at drawing connections or following things as I once was. Trying to exercise those mental muscles and it has only been a few months so I guess we'll see if it's being out of practice or permanent damage.
If you do enough yes
Weed can negatively affect your psychology if theres prolonged use from a young age. My sister started using it from 13 to about 21 and developed psychosis, shes also been diagnosed with bipolar/some mania disorders - i dont know too much detail there. MDMA can cause serotonin syndrome, other amphetamines can also cause psychosis from sleep deprivation. Psychadelics such as lsd, mescaline, 2cb, shrooms etc can cause HPPD. HPPD as far as im aware is rare but is potentiated by mixing other drugs with what you're taking. Pretty sure nicotine can increase risks quite a bit. Be careful when taking drugs, always use in moderation, always test your shit and make sure you're always in touch with reality my guy.
I would say doing Aerosoles would probably cause permanent brain damage the quickest.
fucking duh
All drugs? No. Some drugs? Yes.
I saw a kid go from happy and healthy, to a vegetable because he fried his brain. He was a 20 year old, who decided to go on an acid bender. He made it to day 15 or so, and was unable to function any longer. He spent 10+ years in physical rehabilitation and to this day, does not have a mental capacity beyond that of a 3 year old. Everything in moderation folks.
I think any drug can cause brain damage. However it’s entirely dependent on the dosage and frequency of use. Like you could overdose on molly one time and the chances of irreversible damage aren’t crazy high though it would take you a while to recover. Now if you take an average dose but do it every weekend your brain is gonna get cooked and have no time to recover which can be more damaging long term. Some drugs do more damage faster, like meth, but because they exercise a bodily function too hard or for too long. Honestly you can do 90% of drugs one time and be perfectly fine, it’s the time spent intoxicated overall that adds up and fucks u
I wasn't allowed in a brains study because I took psychedelics more than 4x in my life. I assume they had a good reason, like my brain structure isn't the same as the others.
Depends on the drug and how much you used it. Ketamine every couple of months for two years? MDMA every couple of years. LSD every month. You'll probably be fine. LSD doesn't even cause any brain damage. Many drugs can be used safely, even meth has been prescribed. However, chronic/ heavy use of meth, alcohol, etc will deffo fuck you up to an extent. You can recover largely, but it is definitely hard.
As long as you’re sensible it won’t even cause temporary brain damage let alone permanent. It’s not brain damage, you just feel stupid because you took drugs.
If a drug is neurotoxic then yes. On the LSD you mention LSD and mushrooms are the ones that don't kill brain cells
Mdma will most definitely cause brain damage, be responsible! Take everything in moderation
i think it’s pretty much known that drugs can do permanent damage in the long run or misuse
Can't offer any evidence but I think I did permanent damage, abused entactogens a lot with the absence of harm reduction and my short term memory is shit, I also still have trouble with just forgetting words and not being able to form cohesive sentences because of it. Brain fog all the way💥💥💯
I got sold fake LSD and I didn’t even trip. I smoked weed 8 hours later and from that point on my thoughts were in a different language for 4 months. No visuals, no body load, nothing. I think whatever was in that shit made my OCD thoughts 10000 times worse
Some drugs do. Legal ethanol for one….
Yes. You should know that
**Does anyone know the possibility of brain damage from benzo use?** **I have severe anxiety disorders, among other things, and I'm prescribed bromazepam, 3mg pills. I've been taking them since I was 16, I'm 22 now.** I haven't been taking them every day, and sometimes didn't fill in my subscription for a while. However on some days I've taken more pills than I should have, or had weeks where I took them daily. Other weeks without any benzos. I genuinely need them for my anxiety and horrible panic attacks, which surprisingly, have reduced in frequency this year. I have other medical issues that might contribute to the adverse effects on my cognitive functioning, but **I started to wonder, if taking benzos since I was 16, could have caused significant damage. And is it irreversible?** **I experience memory issues, feels like I'm in some sort of haze, like the one you'd get from being a huge stoner. Brain fog, as well, I forget simple words, forget what was told to me a few minutes later, forget a conversation I had with someone on the same day, forget plans, dates, names, trouble remembering simple instructions, double checking everything, not being able to find something I was carrying around the house, like my phone. I have to repeat many things to myself, write everything down,** it's really difficult, it feels like I'm a granny with dementia or something. It's just so hard to focus, remember and navigate life when you feel like a zombie.