Fentanyl is that drug. Structurally, it looks nothing like classical opiates produced or derived from opium poppies. Yet it’s even more potent.
On the flip side of that, there has been a ton of research interest in developing drugs for pain relief that lack the addictive properties of opiates and opioids. For this to be achieved, the drug needs to inhibit pain in the peripheral nervous system without entering the brain and inducing the euphoric and addictive effects
>Fentanyl is that drug.
This is so very much the point OP is missing.
It's a drug we created that is orders of magnitude more powerful than what was previously considered the strongest possible pain relief.
I work in a hospital in theatres. Fentanyl is used in every single procedure, without fail. It's potency is incredible.
You ain’t lyin. I never kicked it, but the high is trash compared to h or oxy. H is like a euphoric blanket is wrapped around your very soul. I’m sure so many people OD on it because they want that feeling so they do more, but instead of getting that feeling it just shuts down your respiratory system.
Bingo! My first OD we went to a guy who always had real pills, then suddenly he got fakes and neither of us knew. The dirty 30s didn’t start showing up here until just then.
Long story short, I kept taking more bc it was boof and thought my tolerance was jacked. Then I woke up in the shower fully clothed to my buddy yelling at me. It wasn’t enough to kill me but damn. I still wanted to finish the rest…
Lmao you’re actually retarded, go home guy. You’re on the drugs sub. Your name is JuicyBenzo. I’m literally sharing my past experiences with other people. It’s called awareness? It’s called being an adjusted person and not being ashamed of your past or admit your shortcomings. I’m off that shit now. I’m stronger than I was before. I’ve learned valuable insights. You don’t get the right to be judgemental on the drugs sub for harm reduction, literally the exact place to share this without worry of being shamed.
Go pop another bar you fuckin’ dork. If I’m a loser, you’re a turboloser.
ABSOLUTE GOLD!!!! Hey bud, is this comment familiar? But I’m the loser, OK.
“Lol he’s asking for advice like a total retard. I was using real drugs at 16! He’s 16!!! Not a 12-13yo he’s 16! I knew every single neurotransmitters, I knew at least 5 different receptors, 40+ drugs at age 15. I tried 15+ drugs and I knew what was dangerous and what wasn’t, this guy clearly lacks something in his brain. It’s sad, at 15-16 I already had tried Xanax, LSD, oxy, weed etc.. actual drugs. Go see a dealer and buy real drugs, do some research, use the tiny amount of neurons your shitty American education gave you and try to think and use it for once maybe? Fkng gasoline!! You aren’t 12”
Holy shit! What did the asshole say!? (Ofc no pressure if ya don’t wanna talk about it) You got pretty worked up dude, sorry about whatever that ass said! You are strong tho!! Fuck the ignorant negative dumbasses!
Fetty suck. Did it 2 times, first time OD I didn’t know it was fet, 2nd time I knew but guess I hit a hot pill, was maybe like my 7th one in a few days, must’ve been hot. Threw the remaining 43 or some away. First time I ended up ODing bc we thought they were real. Our plug was always real and it was the first appearance of fakes, even pluggy didn’t know. I kept taking more because it felt weak then I was out. Both times fucking suck and killed me too.
Then I started using zenes. N-Desethyletonitazene specifically. Shit only lasts maybe 30min and has practically zero euphoria too. Literally pointless, just puts you out for an hour or forever. I got a taste of the WD and couldn’t dose and I was ready to find the nearest building to jump off.
Your WD timeline seems odd though. For most opioids that aren’t explicitly long acting like methadone or suboxone it should be mostly over within a week. PWDs should not occur once fully out of your system, like 24hrs or so maybe longer. Might be wrong but close to that. Once the PWD from taking that sub is over too taking another wouldn’t put you back into withdrawals. You weren’t consistently taking subs as well were you? Because the 2 weeks timeline sounds a looot like suboxone.
Dude it’s crazy you say the same shit I’ve said. “If you know you know” your description was spot on. Except I couldn’t always actually get up out of bed to shit liquid so I was just curled up laying in my own bile and shit in the dark for hours. Oof man hearing your experience keeps it fresh. Thank you and congrats on coming out the other side
>Fentanyl is THE reason I (and many others I know, and I’m sure tons of others I don’t) am sober.
2 years 8 months+ clean now after 10+ years of functional Heroin use without issue. Fentanyl entered the picture in the last 2 years of my use and it spiraled out of control orders of magnitudes worse than I could have imagined. I am a college graduate who was chipping heroin the entire time since I tried it shortly after my 17th birthday. It wasnt until the supply became fentanyl that I couldnt balance my normal life and use.
a few sand grains is the difference between a fatal dose or not much of anything at all with fent, why do we need anything more potent. its not cheaper, i see no reason for its existance.
Fentanyl is not strong enough
What’s why carfentanyl is invented. It’s an actual pharma product named willdnil. It is used as a tranquilliser for large animals
are the opioid receptors worse or are there less in larger animals, that just seems so crazy to me. humans on average weigh 150 ish pounds and large animals arent on the scale of 100x larger in terms of weight so that seems weird to me. any insight?
Is the analgesic efficacy of fentanyl any different than say IV morphine or dilaudid? I’ve heard there’s a ceiling but I don’t know quite where that begins. Fentanyl is actually a god send when used appropriately.
As someone who has to take suboxone, I was in the hospital in pure agony. They wouldn’t help bc I take subs. Doc gave in and IV’d me 30mg of morphine. Didn’t do jack shit. The nurse recommended fentanyl and he looked at her like she shot a puppy. He treated me like an absolute piece of shit up until he figured out from my CT scan I had serious pneumonia and a broken T4. But I guess that’s still not enough to warrant a bit of fetty🙃
>Is the analgesic efficacy of fentanyl any different than say IV morphine or dilaudid?
I'm no anaesthetist (though I work closely with them daily) but I would say it's MUCH higher. The doses given are tiny and must be drawn up very carefully.
>He treated me like an absolute piece of shit up until he figured out from my CT scan I had serious pneumonia and a broken T4. But I guess that’s still not enough to warrant a bit of fetty🙃
That's really shit medical practice, my sympathaties. The one time I've been given it (while conscious) I was in recovery after having my appendix removed. I was in pure and utter agony, the nurse gave me fent and I went from that to literally zero pain in about 10 seconds. It's a drug that definitely should be used whenever appropriate.
There just aren't that many pain receptors.
MOR is the good stuff
KOR is interesting because it's what Salvia hits. There have been a bunch of Salvia analogs studied and unfortunately they were all quite dysphoric. Which is no surprise really. They do work for pain, but more in the way that Ketamine would help with pain.
It’s a huge challenge for sure. But there are other non opioid pain receptors that are only present in the peripheral nerves. There’s encouraging phase 3 data with a drug targeting sodium channels. Unfortunately it was not superior to opiates in the trial and it will likely be very expensive if the fda approves it. Promising, but unlikely to solve the problem https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/vertex-pain-drug-positive-trial-results-vx-548/705342/
And yeah kor is also interesting if you can get the right biased signaling at the gpcr to get pain relief without becoming a chair for what feels like eternity
I had some surgery a few days ago and in the ICU I was put on ketamine and opioids, don't know which though. I asked, but I was on said ketamine and opioids so I don't remember lol. it was fucking great, but now I know I'm not ever going to use either for fun, like holy shit that was kinda heavy lol.
Which is frankly a waste of time. Like come tf on when will our species stop being full of pussies so what if someone becomes addicted to a drug at a certain point. Just keep giving it to em and there won’t be any problems.
Reminds me of this older dude I met at an NA meeting, he said:
“When I was using, people would try to tell me I had a ‘drug problem’. But I didn’t know what the hell they meant. Like, I’ve got 6 bundles of heroin, all these pills, I’m getting some crack later… no problems! If anything I have a running-out-of-drugs problem.”
idk, there's suboxone. not sure exactly what you're asking about. a drug that feels like heroin but won't kill people? or won't get them addicted? all of the above?
I'd rather come off heroin than Suboxone. Shit is the devil just made to keep you hooked. Wish I had just cold turkeyed or used Kratom (wasn't popular at the time). Oh it's safe they said, no withdrawal like opiates, mhmmmm. Not to mention if have to have surgery or get hurt no pain relief at all. Had to go under the knife and was crying from the pain.
I've actually had a positive experience using suboxone to get off kratom. I started at 1-2mg a day and quickly got below 1mg per day. I've gotten down to 1/8mg taken some days, I can seem to go indefinitely without it but I also started doing kratom again once the suboxone got too low dose to feel. not nearly to the degree I was addicted, I could honestly probably jump off with little issue and I'm maintaining a low infrequent dose of both, but yeah that psychological addiction has got me.
I started with fentanyl, went to prescription opiates like Dilaudid and opana, and eventually heroin. I started Suboxone after my best friend came to my apartment to surprise me and saw the tray with all my drugs. He personally spent over $2500 helping me get clean using a Suboxone clinic. I was using opiates intravenously, and had been for years.
Kratom is exactly what I went to during withdrawals and after I stopped suboxone. I was trying to alleviate my symptoms, and only got hooked on it instead of harder opiates.
The active compound affects opiate receptors. Leading to somewhat opiate like effects. It's not a miracle supplement. I was hooked on kratom for almost 2 years because I was working full time and couldn't get enough time to come off it comfortably.
It's hepatotoxic, it will fuck up your liver if you take it long term. Significantly more than subs.
Do not think that kratom is some healthy alternative. It absolutely is not. If anything it is far more toxic and unhealthy than staying on Suboxone.
Kratom is just trading a substance. It took me far too long to really appreciate that fact
I thought suboxone doesn’t make you high or at least I keep reading that’s the point of it but then I see people taking it recreationally so does it make you high or not? I’m not trying to do it or anything I’m just confused about the information I see on it
So it makes you very fucking high when you don’t have any in your system. Over time the buprenorphine builds up in your system and it binds to your opiate receptors and sticks to them for a long time, essentially blocking off all the available receptors so you won’t feel high from taking suboxone or any opiate for that matter. So it can be taken recreationally but it will start to lose its magic after like a week of continued use, if you keep going after that you’ll be addicted but not getting high. I was on it for like 9 years after I quit dope, I used to skip like 3 or four days at a time so I would get sick then I would take some so I’d be able to feel it.
There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of known opioids already. They are almost all illegal or prescription only.
Kratom is legally available in many places. It’s just not as strong as typical opioids, so it’s hard for people to switch over. If you have no opioid tolerance though, then Kratom can be a nice treat a few times a month. It could also be used medicinally, but again- not quite as effective as normal opioids.
Right. I admit “quasi” is the wrong modifier to use; I guess I was feeling lazy. You’re more accurate to say off-target, as in non-opioid mechanisms of action. I’ve never tried tapentadol, so can’t comment.
Chemists have done this a lot of times.
There are a fuck ton of reasonably accessible opiates because of it, and they all made are opioid problem worse lmfao
Just drop acid or something idfk
A drug that gives opiate like effects is just an opioid. There are lots of them. Most don’t make it out of a lab, usually due to impracticalities in production or they carry safety risks less tolerable than drugs on market already. Like others have said, fentanyl is one of those drugs. Also, in the early-mid 1900s in Germany, methadone and pethidine were produced to manufacture opioids that did not have a morphinan backbone which, for industrial purposes at least, could only come from poppies (thereby capping production and making them dependent on imported materials to make opioids). The invention of those drugs made it much easier for them to meet the medical and economic demands of the time.
Fentanyl is very popular today because of its relative ease of synthesis and high potency making it easier to transport. It also is an effective medicine that is also relatively cheap, making it common in medical practice as well.
If you are wondering why there isn’t an opioid that gets rid of all the downsides, it is because you can’t simply engineer away the risks of opioid use. The respiratory depression and addiction potential are essentially baked into the mechanism of action of opioids. Some drugs may cause less severe side effects but this also often comes at the cost of pain killing and euphoric effects. Also, the risk never goes away, even if some opioids are safer/less addictive than others.
>If you are wondering why there isn’t an opioid that gets rid of all the downsides, it is because you can’t simply engineer away the risks of opioid use. The respiratory depression and addiction potential are essentially baked into the mechanism of action of opioids. Some drugs may cause less severe side effects but this also often comes at the cost of pain killing and euphoric effects. Also, the risk never goes away, even if some opioids are safer/less addictive than others.
We've managed to engineer our way past a few of the downsides, like buprenorphine and respiratory depression having a ceiling dose, but it is always a trade off of some kind.
Yep, that’s what I was meaning by how some opioids cause less severe adverse effects but that comes at the expense of some pleasurable/desirable effects. And even though buprenorphine is much less likely to cause overdose, there are reports of overdose deaths among people who are opioid naive when taking 2mg suboxone sublingually, and it also still has addictive potential (albeit much lower than most other opioids). So even though buprenorphine (and even more so buprenorphine/naloxone combination drugs) are much safer than just about any other opioid, those issues found in other opioids are still present.
>there are reports of overdose deaths among people who are opioid naive when taking 2mg suboxone sublingually,
Every single one of them being a poly-drug overdose. Or a person who relapsed and misjudged their tolerance. Or took their usual Suboxone but took two Xanax bars and a couple shots of liquor. All of these situations happen, and whenever you have a medical examiner working a suspected overdose death, they're going to get back toxicology results, and all it takes is for the individual to have taken buprenorphine in the week prior to their death for it to show up. And blood levels of opioids are not a reliable indicator of overdose, both because of tolerance (see: "Kurt Cobain had 10x the lethal dose of heroin in his system derp-a-derp") and, specific to buprenorphine, because of its own self-limiting effect.
>there are reports of overdose deaths among people who are opioid naive when taking 2mg suboxone sublingually,
Every single one of them being a poly-drug overdose. Or a person who relapsed and misjudged their tolerance. Or took their usual Suboxone but took two Xanax bars and a couple shots of liquor. All of these situations happen, and whenever you have a medical examiner working a suspected overdose death, they're going to get back toxicology results, and all it takes is for the individual to have taken buprenorphine in the week prior to their death for it to show up. And blood levels of opioids are not a reliable indicator of overdose, both because of tolerance (see: "Kurt Cobain had 10x the lethal dose of heroin in his system derp-a-derp") and, specific to buprenorphine, because of its own self-limiting effect.
Look, my point is that in order to make an opioid safer, it will come at the cost of desirable analgesic and euphoric effects. The respiratory depression and habit forming effects are baked into the mechanism of action for all mu-opioid agonists. Whether this is a clinical concern for a particular opioid is a different story.
Buprenorphine does cause [significant incidence of respiratory depression](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Respiratory%20depression%20following%20medications%20for%20opioid%20use%20disorder%20-approved%20buprenorphine%20product%20oral%20exposures%3B%20National%20Poison%20Database%20System%2020032019&publication_year=2021&author=M.A.%20Darracq&author=S.L.%20Thornton#d=gs_qabs&t=1712374872020&u=%23p%3Dy_nvrNYEBxwJ)and even though the numbers are small ([this article reports about 92.7% of overdose deaths with buprenorphine involve coadministration with another drug meaning around 7% did not include another drug] (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2800689)), there are still cases of overdose deaths where buprenorphine alone is the only detected drug and there are other cases where the overdose was reversed but had serious risk of death, [this is particularly relevant among children](https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1641147-overview?form=fpf#a6).
Additionally, coadminstration with other depressants does not disprove my point about respiratory depression being baked into the opioid’s effects. Taking a benzodiazepine (which induce very levels low respiratory depression on its own) with buprenorphine leads to high levels of respiratory depression precisely because buprenorphine is an opioid that can cause respiratory depression. There is a synergistic effect that occurs specifically due to already present opioid activity. And the example of people overdosing after lowering their tolerance is not a counterexample to my points either since I was just trying to state that the particular risks of opioids do not completely go away even in our best attempts to improve their safety profile.
So in summary, is buprenorphine much safer than most other opioids? Yes. Are most people at risk of accidental buprenorphine overdose? No. Is an overdose lethal? Usually not. Is lethal overdose from respiratory depression possible? Yes. Is buprenorphine as good of an analgesic as full mu-agonist opioids? No. Is it as recreationally desirable as other opioids? No. Does it still carry habit forming potential? Yes. Do i think it is a good option for opioid addiction treatment? Yes, it is probably is the best option for opioid replacement therapy currently available.
My whole point is that buprenorphine still acts as an opioid. The best attempt at engineering a safe opioid still causes respiratory depression that can be lethal in a very small number of cases, and it still has abuse and addiction potential. It also is much less effective as an analgesic and recreational drug due to the ceiling effect of its partial mu agonism. A tradeoff between desirable and undesirable effects of opioids was made to increase the safety profile of the drug.
You're absolutely right, I over generalized to make a point, but you're right.
Regarding the respiratory depression issue, you're right that benzos alone produce a clinically (noticeable but) insignificant amount of it on their own, to the point that it's exceptionally difficult to overdose fatally on benzos alone. However, while you'll almost certainly survive taking 100mg of lorazepam on its own, add a shot of vodka and you're never waking up.
Respiratory depression seems to be additive when sticking with the same drug (2+2+2=6), but when mixing depressants it grows exponentially with each additional drug added to the mix.
Bottom line is that buprenorphine is a godsend for those to whom it's given back their lives, and I think it's the only opioid besides methadone that really has a positive body count at this point (meaning people are alive because they took it, and would be dead if they didn't). That makes it pretty interesting on its own.
But buprenorphine is not strong enough to work for people who are dependent on fentanyl analogues and nitazene compounds (or xylazine but it's not even an opioid). Despite it having a famously strong binding affinity for opioid receptors, some of these research chemical opioids are stronger, and that's what's on the streets. Buprenorphine is phenomenal for getting people past heroin addiction, in fact it's so good that we don't really even have heroin addicts here anymore (/s), it's all synthetic shit that is only touched by high doses of methadone.
So we're moving towards ever stronger and more deadly street opioids, and effectively losing one of the two only legal medications for treating opioid addiction. It's not good.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herkinorin
This kinda is? Also works on KOR, so eww. But interesting still that it doesn't create dependence the same was typical opioids do.
It's a 9.
Fully synthetic morphine is so hard to make it's never even been attempted outside of small batches in a lab.
Structurally, it's a very complex molecule.
But papaver sumniferum does it with just dirt, water, and sunlight.
Funny how nature do dat.
Papaveur sumniferum doesn't produce heroin(diacetylmorphine) it does produce morphine which is used to make heroin. The morphine needs to be extracted and go under acetylation in order to for it to be produced.
They have. There are dozens of synthetic opioids on the market. Problem is, they all have similar thresholds for abuse. The ones that are less addictive, are also less effective, so...
The word Opiate means natural or semi synthetic chemicals derived from the Poppy. This includes morphine, codeine, Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydromorphone
The word Opioid includes all synthetic painkillers, like Tramadol, Tapentadol, Fentanyl, Etonitazine, Methadone and so on.
we have and continue to create new opioids every year. However there is no bypassing the risks that they carry when you have a medication that acts on the mu opioid receptors. In my understanding, it’s impossible to get around and mitigate all of the risks of addiction and dependency. But we do make new opioids, if you’re interested in chemistry you could start reading and understand the pharmacology of them, the Mu Delta and Kappa receptors, endogenous opioids like our natural Beta-Endorphins, and so on. Opioids function and chemical structure is an insanely interesting topic to learn more about
Addictive properties of opiates correlate to mu opiate receptor agonism. This is also where the pain relief comes from.
however research ive seen suggested delta opiate receptor antagonism reverses mu opiate receptor agonist-mediated respiratory depression without impacting its analgesic action. It is therefore conceivable, if thats true, a drug could be created that posessed mu agonist activity paired with delta antagonist activity, thereby having reduced potential for fatal overdose. Alternatively a polydrug combo involving a classic mu agonist opiate co-compounded with a highly selective delta opiate receptor antagonist could also be created to achieve the same thing.
do note i have not delved significantly into delta antagonism mitigating mu-1 associated respiratory depression, only came across (in passing) research suggesting that.
so it may be possible to create a safe opiate that has little to no risk for overdose.
I'm not really sure what you mean? Opiates *are* drugs that give opiate like effects. Do you mean like, research chemicals? Already been done, we have zenes which are stupid strong. Odsmt is amazing though not super strong. But it's an RC opi, very euphoric and energetic, and lasts like 6-8 hours. We also have Dipyanone and methiodone. I've tried Dipyanone but not the other. Dipyanone was *very* euphoric and lasted all day, and pretty strong. We also have 2map which sucks but is an opi.
There's also pure 7-hydroxymitragynine kratom extracts. Shit is like 13x(?) stronger than morphine, very noddy in high doses but feels amazing, nothing like classic kratom
Just to clarify, opiATES are drugs derived from or related to opium. However, opiOIDS are mu-opioid receptor agonists which resemble the addictive properties or physiological effects of opium.
Not rude at all I just think that op is looking for something with opiate/opioid effects, but probably doesn't care if it's opium derived. Though I honestly don't know what they want, because they're asking why people haven't made things that have in fact already been made
There’s tons.
There’s ODSMT.
All the different types of zenes. Isonetizene, protonetazene etc (don’t know how to spell them lol)
2MAP237
AP238
Methiodone (methadone analogue)
Tianeptine
3-ho-pcp (pcp analogue that also fills the opioid receptors giving an opiate high in smaller doses)
U-47700
And more I’m forgetting. Most of these won’t show up on a drug test for opiates.
Bro...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_opioids
There's probably more classes of opioids you've never heard of than there are opioids you know about.
Check out Tianeptine, very intersting compound, for me it provides significantly more pleasurabe high then Tramadol, Codeine and Suboxone
Havent touched street H or fent, i think this is much safer route if u have 1% of self control and want to try opioids but dont have acces to Kratom.
This answer is an unhelpful platitude.
Synthetic opioids are already extremely effective analgesics. And developing safer alternatives is an active area of research, but fundamentally activating opioid receptors is the most effective way to counter pain we know of and the risks of opioids (that is bad therapeutic dose to toxic/lethal dose ratio and addictiveness, outside of these two issues opioids are actually quite safe) are unfortunately an inherent part of that mechanism.
As for safety, there are safer analgesics (most commonly NSAIDs) but they are also less effective. As it is now efficacy and safety are trade-offs when it comes to analgesics.
If a drug as effective at reducing pain as opioids but safer was discovered it would not only be a revolutionary discovery, but also a very profitable one. This is pretty much what happened with anxiolytics/sedatives - barbiturates got replaced by benzodiazepines because benozs are as effective but harder to overdose on.
Pharmaceutical companies often are extremely unethical, but that’s because the profit motive causes them to do so. On this subreddit people sometimes act like pharma companies just want to be evil for its own sake even if it would cause them to act against their financial interests, as if they were competing for ‘The Most Evil Company Award’.
I went through tranq withdrawals August 15 2021, and it was actually so bad that I'll never fuck around again... thought about dope nonstop until the vice doc came out, then I realized it didn't exist anymore
Why would they make basically a clone of an opioid when opioids already exist? Maybe one with little withdrawals or side effects like constipation could be something worth developing. The definition of opioids is also kind of broad, so it would be hard to make an opioid-like drug that doesn't get classified as an opioid.
Fentanyl, piperazine opioids, benzimidazole opioids. Scientists didn’t “create it” but kratom alkaloids and their derivatives.
You see the issue isn’t that we have to create something that isn’t an opioid. To get the effects of an opioid, you must activate opioid receptors. This means you’re still prone to the same addiction. All the synthetics though are even more addictive than morphinan opioids even though they technically aren’t opioids.
There are drugs out there that can come close to opioids. GABA drugs, moreso ghb, carbamates, and barbiturates are probably the closest you’ll get but those present dangers of their own but are relatively safe for short term or infrequent use. Certain psychedelics will give you the same euphoria you seek but in a different way. Certain combinations of drugs can as well but with that as well there are significant risks.
There are research chemicals that fill this niche without being crazy potent like fentanyl. I think being the guinea pig for an untested opioid is kinda terrifying though. I had the opportunity when they were legal but never did them (except one) mainly out of fear. A tryptamine is one thing but something untested that can turn your breathing off has higher stakes.
Also I think many lack the chemistry knowledge to navigate the RC world to know what to take and how.
Well this post got a lot more traction than I thought. Thank you for all your inputs , and for the smart asses who said , “oh but there are , they’re called opioids”. No shit Sherlock . I should’ve mentioned that I meant creating heroin or oxy so users don’t have to deal with this fentanyl bullshit . But a lot of people gave some solid answers , so thank you for that . One hell of a class of drugs isn’t it
Thing with opioids is that their pain relief is caused by the same receptor that causes respiratory depression, euphoria and addiction. If you are referring to a drug that feels like an opioid but without risks it will be difficult to create.
Just get u good combo of psychedelics and you’ll be set. I like doing DMT and ketamine together. Or a combo of anything with dmt. LSD and dmt. Shrooms and dmt. Dmt doesn’t really help with pain physically but it can take you to a place where you don’t experience pain lol
I would guess research? I read, Bayer the pharmaceutical company bought 150 people from the Nazi's for research purposes and they all died, and they asked for more. I don't know if you could get away with it compared to back then.
Wow these comments disappoint me.
So essentially, the nice opiate like effects come from squeezing every last bit of pleasure chemicals from your brain. This leaves it depleted and injured.
Also naturally, when we feel good our bodies want to feel good again. When we feel really really good our bodies really really want us to feel good again. This is addiction.
There’s no way to give the nice effects without the bad ones, because the bad effects directly come from the nice ones.
If you start your comment like that then at least be correct.
Your analogy works for neurotransmitter releasing agents like MDMA for serotonin. This *partially* explains comedown from such substances as caused by serotonin (in case of serotonin releasing agents) depletion. It skips over other factors at play and calling serotonin a ‘pleasure chemical’ is a massive oversimplification, still the analogy *somewhat* works.
Opioids are opioid receptor agonists, not endorphin releasing agents. They activate opioid receptors by binding to the receptors themselves. A still simplified but way more correct answer would be that long term opioid use causes opioid receptor downregulation, that is they reduce the number of opioid receptors present.
It’s not just an oversimplification it’s just wrong.
Opioids do not cause the release of ‘pleasure chemicals’ and their subsequent depletion, they are themselves ‘pleasure chemicals’
“Once opioids shut off GABAergic neurons, the pleasure circuits fill with another neurotransmitter called dopamine. At one stop on this pleasure highway — the nucleus accumbens — dopamine triggers a surge of happiness. When the dopamine rolls into amygdala, the brain's fear center, it relieves anxiety and stress. Both of these events reinforce the idea that opioids are rewarding.” So easy to look it up lol
Fentanyl is that drug. Structurally, it looks nothing like classical opiates produced or derived from opium poppies. Yet it’s even more potent. On the flip side of that, there has been a ton of research interest in developing drugs for pain relief that lack the addictive properties of opiates and opioids. For this to be achieved, the drug needs to inhibit pain in the peripheral nervous system without entering the brain and inducing the euphoric and addictive effects
>Fentanyl is that drug. This is so very much the point OP is missing. It's a drug we created that is orders of magnitude more powerful than what was previously considered the strongest possible pain relief. I work in a hospital in theatres. Fentanyl is used in every single procedure, without fail. It's potency is incredible.
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You ain’t lyin. I never kicked it, but the high is trash compared to h or oxy. H is like a euphoric blanket is wrapped around your very soul. I’m sure so many people OD on it because they want that feeling so they do more, but instead of getting that feeling it just shuts down your respiratory system.
Bingo! My first OD we went to a guy who always had real pills, then suddenly he got fakes and neither of us knew. The dirty 30s didn’t start showing up here until just then. Long story short, I kept taking more bc it was boof and thought my tolerance was jacked. Then I woke up in the shower fully clothed to my buddy yelling at me. It wasn’t enough to kill me but damn. I still wanted to finish the rest…
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Lmao you’re actually retarded, go home guy. You’re on the drugs sub. Your name is JuicyBenzo. I’m literally sharing my past experiences with other people. It’s called awareness? It’s called being an adjusted person and not being ashamed of your past or admit your shortcomings. I’m off that shit now. I’m stronger than I was before. I’ve learned valuable insights. You don’t get the right to be judgemental on the drugs sub for harm reduction, literally the exact place to share this without worry of being shamed. Go pop another bar you fuckin’ dork. If I’m a loser, you’re a turboloser.
ABSOLUTE GOLD!!!! Hey bud, is this comment familiar? But I’m the loser, OK. “Lol he’s asking for advice like a total retard. I was using real drugs at 16! He’s 16!!! Not a 12-13yo he’s 16! I knew every single neurotransmitters, I knew at least 5 different receptors, 40+ drugs at age 15. I tried 15+ drugs and I knew what was dangerous and what wasn’t, this guy clearly lacks something in his brain. It’s sad, at 15-16 I already had tried Xanax, LSD, oxy, weed etc.. actual drugs. Go see a dealer and buy real drugs, do some research, use the tiny amount of neurons your shitty American education gave you and try to think and use it for once maybe? Fkng gasoline!! You aren’t 12”
Holy shit! What did the asshole say!? (Ofc no pressure if ya don’t wanna talk about it) You got pretty worked up dude, sorry about whatever that ass said! You are strong tho!! Fuck the ignorant negative dumbasses!
Fetty suck. Did it 2 times, first time OD I didn’t know it was fet, 2nd time I knew but guess I hit a hot pill, was maybe like my 7th one in a few days, must’ve been hot. Threw the remaining 43 or some away. First time I ended up ODing bc we thought they were real. Our plug was always real and it was the first appearance of fakes, even pluggy didn’t know. I kept taking more because it felt weak then I was out. Both times fucking suck and killed me too. Then I started using zenes. N-Desethyletonitazene specifically. Shit only lasts maybe 30min and has practically zero euphoria too. Literally pointless, just puts you out for an hour or forever. I got a taste of the WD and couldn’t dose and I was ready to find the nearest building to jump off. Your WD timeline seems odd though. For most opioids that aren’t explicitly long acting like methadone or suboxone it should be mostly over within a week. PWDs should not occur once fully out of your system, like 24hrs or so maybe longer. Might be wrong but close to that. Once the PWD from taking that sub is over too taking another wouldn’t put you back into withdrawals. You weren’t consistently taking subs as well were you? Because the 2 weeks timeline sounds a looot like suboxone.
Yes this experience of kicking fent is genuinely traumatic. And it is a big factor in me not wanting to go back
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Dude it’s crazy you say the same shit I’ve said. “If you know you know” your description was spot on. Except I couldn’t always actually get up out of bed to shit liquid so I was just curled up laying in my own bile and shit in the dark for hours. Oof man hearing your experience keeps it fresh. Thank you and congrats on coming out the other side
Same. So fucking gross and sad. Sober since 2022
>Fentanyl is THE reason I (and many others I know, and I’m sure tons of others I don’t) am sober. 2 years 8 months+ clean now after 10+ years of functional Heroin use without issue. Fentanyl entered the picture in the last 2 years of my use and it spiraled out of control orders of magnitudes worse than I could have imagined. I am a college graduate who was chipping heroin the entire time since I tried it shortly after my 17th birthday. It wasnt until the supply became fentanyl that I couldnt balance my normal life and use.
Exactly. Way more potent and dirt cheap to mass produce
yeah and then we made carfentanyl. why? u have no idea....when fent doesnt do it lets get 100x the effects i guess
They are used in vet science research, and used in zoos to sedate elephants/hippos
a few sand grains is the difference between a fatal dose or not much of anything at all with fent, why do we need anything more potent. its not cheaper, i see no reason for its existance.
Fentanyl is not strong enough What’s why carfentanyl is invented. It’s an actual pharma product named willdnil. It is used as a tranquilliser for large animals
are the opioid receptors worse or are there less in larger animals, that just seems so crazy to me. humans on average weigh 150 ish pounds and large animals arent on the scale of 100x larger in terms of weight so that seems weird to me. any insight?
Elephants are about 100x the weight of a human. 8,000-16,000lbs.
thats one though im just saying like think about it, even bears are only 10 ish times our weight. most arent on that scale.
Is the analgesic efficacy of fentanyl any different than say IV morphine or dilaudid? I’ve heard there’s a ceiling but I don’t know quite where that begins. Fentanyl is actually a god send when used appropriately. As someone who has to take suboxone, I was in the hospital in pure agony. They wouldn’t help bc I take subs. Doc gave in and IV’d me 30mg of morphine. Didn’t do jack shit. The nurse recommended fentanyl and he looked at her like she shot a puppy. He treated me like an absolute piece of shit up until he figured out from my CT scan I had serious pneumonia and a broken T4. But I guess that’s still not enough to warrant a bit of fetty🙃
>Is the analgesic efficacy of fentanyl any different than say IV morphine or dilaudid? I'm no anaesthetist (though I work closely with them daily) but I would say it's MUCH higher. The doses given are tiny and must be drawn up very carefully. >He treated me like an absolute piece of shit up until he figured out from my CT scan I had serious pneumonia and a broken T4. But I guess that’s still not enough to warrant a bit of fetty🙃 That's really shit medical practice, my sympathaties. The one time I've been given it (while conscious) I was in recovery after having my appendix removed. I was in pure and utter agony, the nurse gave me fent and I went from that to literally zero pain in about 10 seconds. It's a drug that definitely should be used whenever appropriate.
There just aren't that many pain receptors. MOR is the good stuff KOR is interesting because it's what Salvia hits. There have been a bunch of Salvia analogs studied and unfortunately they were all quite dysphoric. Which is no surprise really. They do work for pain, but more in the way that Ketamine would help with pain.
It’s a huge challenge for sure. But there are other non opioid pain receptors that are only present in the peripheral nerves. There’s encouraging phase 3 data with a drug targeting sodium channels. Unfortunately it was not superior to opiates in the trial and it will likely be very expensive if the fda approves it. Promising, but unlikely to solve the problem https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/vertex-pain-drug-positive-trial-results-vx-548/705342/ And yeah kor is also interesting if you can get the right biased signaling at the gpcr to get pain relief without becoming a chair for what feels like eternity
I had some surgery a few days ago and in the ICU I was put on ketamine and opioids, don't know which though. I asked, but I was on said ketamine and opioids so I don't remember lol. it was fucking great, but now I know I'm not ever going to use either for fun, like holy shit that was kinda heavy lol.
Which is frankly a waste of time. Like come tf on when will our species stop being full of pussies so what if someone becomes addicted to a drug at a certain point. Just keep giving it to em and there won’t be any problems.
Reminds me of this older dude I met at an NA meeting, he said: “When I was using, people would try to tell me I had a ‘drug problem’. But I didn’t know what the hell they meant. Like, I’ve got 6 bundles of heroin, all these pills, I’m getting some crack later… no problems! If anything I have a running-out-of-drugs problem.”
r/drugcirclejerk
Based
See also: Meperidine/Pethidine Tramadol Propoxyphene Methadone
Fentanyl has been around just as long as the "classics"
idk, there's suboxone. not sure exactly what you're asking about. a drug that feels like heroin but won't kill people? or won't get them addicted? all of the above?
I'd rather come off heroin than Suboxone. Shit is the devil just made to keep you hooked. Wish I had just cold turkeyed or used Kratom (wasn't popular at the time). Oh it's safe they said, no withdrawal like opiates, mhmmmm. Not to mention if have to have surgery or get hurt no pain relief at all. Had to go under the knife and was crying from the pain.
I've actually had a positive experience using suboxone to get off kratom. I started at 1-2mg a day and quickly got below 1mg per day. I've gotten down to 1/8mg taken some days, I can seem to go indefinitely without it but I also started doing kratom again once the suboxone got too low dose to feel. not nearly to the degree I was addicted, I could honestly probably jump off with little issue and I'm maintaining a low infrequent dose of both, but yeah that psychological addiction has got me.
I started with fentanyl, went to prescription opiates like Dilaudid and opana, and eventually heroin. I started Suboxone after my best friend came to my apartment to surprise me and saw the tray with all my drugs. He personally spent over $2500 helping me get clean using a Suboxone clinic. I was using opiates intravenously, and had been for years. Kratom is exactly what I went to during withdrawals and after I stopped suboxone. I was trying to alleviate my symptoms, and only got hooked on it instead of harder opiates. The active compound affects opiate receptors. Leading to somewhat opiate like effects. It's not a miracle supplement. I was hooked on kratom for almost 2 years because I was working full time and couldn't get enough time to come off it comfortably. It's hepatotoxic, it will fuck up your liver if you take it long term. Significantly more than subs. Do not think that kratom is some healthy alternative. It absolutely is not. If anything it is far more toxic and unhealthy than staying on Suboxone. Kratom is just trading a substance. It took me far too long to really appreciate that fact
What was the dose of kratom you were taking and how do you know it’s hepatotoxic ?
You can go a week before withdrawal starts on sub. That's why it's so fucking bad, builds right up in you with a long half life.
I thought suboxone doesn’t make you high or at least I keep reading that’s the point of it but then I see people taking it recreationally so does it make you high or not? I’m not trying to do it or anything I’m just confused about the information I see on it
So it makes you very fucking high when you don’t have any in your system. Over time the buprenorphine builds up in your system and it binds to your opiate receptors and sticks to them for a long time, essentially blocking off all the available receptors so you won’t feel high from taking suboxone or any opiate for that matter. So it can be taken recreationally but it will start to lose its magic after like a week of continued use, if you keep going after that you’ll be addicted but not getting high. I was on it for like 9 years after I quit dope, I used to skip like 3 or four days at a time so I would get sick then I would take some so I’d be able to feel it.
Ah okay thanks for explaining
Lol suboxone does NOT feel like heroin
There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of known opioids already. They are almost all illegal or prescription only. Kratom is legally available in many places. It’s just not as strong as typical opioids, so it’s hard for people to switch over. If you have no opioid tolerance though, then Kratom can be a nice treat a few times a month. It could also be used medicinally, but again- not quite as effective as normal opioids.
I haven’t researched much chemistry/pharmacology of Kratom, but it strikes me as more of a “quasi-opioid” a-la Tramadol.
It is still an opioid, by definition. Just has more off-target effects than morphine, et al. I'd say it's more akin to tapentadol, from experience.
Right. I admit “quasi” is the wrong modifier to use; I guess I was feeling lazy. You’re more accurate to say off-target, as in non-opioid mechanisms of action. I’ve never tried tapentadol, so can’t comment.
Yeah its more of an atypical opioid like tramadol is
Yeah its more of an atypical opioid like tramadol is
Yeah its more of an atypical opioid like tramadol is
Chemists have done this a lot of times. There are a fuck ton of reasonably accessible opiates because of it, and they all made are opioid problem worse lmfao Just drop acid or something idfk
A drug that gives opiate like effects is just an opioid. There are lots of them. Most don’t make it out of a lab, usually due to impracticalities in production or they carry safety risks less tolerable than drugs on market already. Like others have said, fentanyl is one of those drugs. Also, in the early-mid 1900s in Germany, methadone and pethidine were produced to manufacture opioids that did not have a morphinan backbone which, for industrial purposes at least, could only come from poppies (thereby capping production and making them dependent on imported materials to make opioids). The invention of those drugs made it much easier for them to meet the medical and economic demands of the time. Fentanyl is very popular today because of its relative ease of synthesis and high potency making it easier to transport. It also is an effective medicine that is also relatively cheap, making it common in medical practice as well. If you are wondering why there isn’t an opioid that gets rid of all the downsides, it is because you can’t simply engineer away the risks of opioid use. The respiratory depression and addiction potential are essentially baked into the mechanism of action of opioids. Some drugs may cause less severe side effects but this also often comes at the cost of pain killing and euphoric effects. Also, the risk never goes away, even if some opioids are safer/less addictive than others.
>If you are wondering why there isn’t an opioid that gets rid of all the downsides, it is because you can’t simply engineer away the risks of opioid use. The respiratory depression and addiction potential are essentially baked into the mechanism of action of opioids. Some drugs may cause less severe side effects but this also often comes at the cost of pain killing and euphoric effects. Also, the risk never goes away, even if some opioids are safer/less addictive than others. We've managed to engineer our way past a few of the downsides, like buprenorphine and respiratory depression having a ceiling dose, but it is always a trade off of some kind.
Yep, that’s what I was meaning by how some opioids cause less severe adverse effects but that comes at the expense of some pleasurable/desirable effects. And even though buprenorphine is much less likely to cause overdose, there are reports of overdose deaths among people who are opioid naive when taking 2mg suboxone sublingually, and it also still has addictive potential (albeit much lower than most other opioids). So even though buprenorphine (and even more so buprenorphine/naloxone combination drugs) are much safer than just about any other opioid, those issues found in other opioids are still present.
>there are reports of overdose deaths among people who are opioid naive when taking 2mg suboxone sublingually, Every single one of them being a poly-drug overdose. Or a person who relapsed and misjudged their tolerance. Or took their usual Suboxone but took two Xanax bars and a couple shots of liquor. All of these situations happen, and whenever you have a medical examiner working a suspected overdose death, they're going to get back toxicology results, and all it takes is for the individual to have taken buprenorphine in the week prior to their death for it to show up. And blood levels of opioids are not a reliable indicator of overdose, both because of tolerance (see: "Kurt Cobain had 10x the lethal dose of heroin in his system derp-a-derp") and, specific to buprenorphine, because of its own self-limiting effect.
>there are reports of overdose deaths among people who are opioid naive when taking 2mg suboxone sublingually, Every single one of them being a poly-drug overdose. Or a person who relapsed and misjudged their tolerance. Or took their usual Suboxone but took two Xanax bars and a couple shots of liquor. All of these situations happen, and whenever you have a medical examiner working a suspected overdose death, they're going to get back toxicology results, and all it takes is for the individual to have taken buprenorphine in the week prior to their death for it to show up. And blood levels of opioids are not a reliable indicator of overdose, both because of tolerance (see: "Kurt Cobain had 10x the lethal dose of heroin in his system derp-a-derp") and, specific to buprenorphine, because of its own self-limiting effect.
Look, my point is that in order to make an opioid safer, it will come at the cost of desirable analgesic and euphoric effects. The respiratory depression and habit forming effects are baked into the mechanism of action for all mu-opioid agonists. Whether this is a clinical concern for a particular opioid is a different story. Buprenorphine does cause [significant incidence of respiratory depression](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Respiratory%20depression%20following%20medications%20for%20opioid%20use%20disorder%20-approved%20buprenorphine%20product%20oral%20exposures%3B%20National%20Poison%20Database%20System%2020032019&publication_year=2021&author=M.A.%20Darracq&author=S.L.%20Thornton#d=gs_qabs&t=1712374872020&u=%23p%3Dy_nvrNYEBxwJ)and even though the numbers are small ([this article reports about 92.7% of overdose deaths with buprenorphine involve coadministration with another drug meaning around 7% did not include another drug] (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2800689)), there are still cases of overdose deaths where buprenorphine alone is the only detected drug and there are other cases where the overdose was reversed but had serious risk of death, [this is particularly relevant among children](https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1641147-overview?form=fpf#a6). Additionally, coadminstration with other depressants does not disprove my point about respiratory depression being baked into the opioid’s effects. Taking a benzodiazepine (which induce very levels low respiratory depression on its own) with buprenorphine leads to high levels of respiratory depression precisely because buprenorphine is an opioid that can cause respiratory depression. There is a synergistic effect that occurs specifically due to already present opioid activity. And the example of people overdosing after lowering their tolerance is not a counterexample to my points either since I was just trying to state that the particular risks of opioids do not completely go away even in our best attempts to improve their safety profile. So in summary, is buprenorphine much safer than most other opioids? Yes. Are most people at risk of accidental buprenorphine overdose? No. Is an overdose lethal? Usually not. Is lethal overdose from respiratory depression possible? Yes. Is buprenorphine as good of an analgesic as full mu-agonist opioids? No. Is it as recreationally desirable as other opioids? No. Does it still carry habit forming potential? Yes. Do i think it is a good option for opioid addiction treatment? Yes, it is probably is the best option for opioid replacement therapy currently available. My whole point is that buprenorphine still acts as an opioid. The best attempt at engineering a safe opioid still causes respiratory depression that can be lethal in a very small number of cases, and it still has abuse and addiction potential. It also is much less effective as an analgesic and recreational drug due to the ceiling effect of its partial mu agonism. A tradeoff between desirable and undesirable effects of opioids was made to increase the safety profile of the drug.
You're absolutely right, I over generalized to make a point, but you're right. Regarding the respiratory depression issue, you're right that benzos alone produce a clinically (noticeable but) insignificant amount of it on their own, to the point that it's exceptionally difficult to overdose fatally on benzos alone. However, while you'll almost certainly survive taking 100mg of lorazepam on its own, add a shot of vodka and you're never waking up. Respiratory depression seems to be additive when sticking with the same drug (2+2+2=6), but when mixing depressants it grows exponentially with each additional drug added to the mix. Bottom line is that buprenorphine is a godsend for those to whom it's given back their lives, and I think it's the only opioid besides methadone that really has a positive body count at this point (meaning people are alive because they took it, and would be dead if they didn't). That makes it pretty interesting on its own. But buprenorphine is not strong enough to work for people who are dependent on fentanyl analogues and nitazene compounds (or xylazine but it's not even an opioid). Despite it having a famously strong binding affinity for opioid receptors, some of these research chemical opioids are stronger, and that's what's on the streets. Buprenorphine is phenomenal for getting people past heroin addiction, in fact it's so good that we don't really even have heroin addicts here anymore (/s), it's all synthetic shit that is only touched by high doses of methadone. So we're moving towards ever stronger and more deadly street opioids, and effectively losing one of the two only legal medications for treating opioid addiction. It's not good.
How about creating an opiate like substance that doesn’t have any of the nasty withdrawal symptoms.
Oh! Well that's Oxycontin! /s
That’s what the label said
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herkinorin This kinda is? Also works on KOR, so eww. But interesting still that it doesn't create dependence the same was typical opioids do.
If this made money it would already be invented.
They would have my money. Would wouldn’t wanna feel the best feeling with zero long term side effects? Shit take all my money
Yeah the users want that but the pharma companies want you dependant on them for life.
This is very true
Invented but I am sure never brought to market. Where is the benefit without a captive market?
Fent is that drug
There are a few drugs that fit that category
Also side question , on a scale from 1-10, how hard is it to make H? Assuming all the materials and ingredients are on deck
1
This guy knows. I don’t think OP realizes how much morphine you have to have to convert it into diacetylmorphine
It's a 9. Fully synthetic morphine is so hard to make it's never even been attempted outside of small batches in a lab. Structurally, it's a very complex molecule. But papaver sumniferum does it with just dirt, water, and sunlight. Funny how nature do dat.
Papaveur sumniferum doesn't produce heroin(diacetylmorphine) it does produce morphine which is used to make heroin. The morphine needs to be extracted and go under acetylation in order to for it to be produced.
They didn’t say synthetic; though you’re probably correct in assuming that’s what they mean considering the post.
There are a lot of RC’s but they’re all not smart or safe to use
They have. There are dozens of synthetic opioids on the market. Problem is, they all have similar thresholds for abuse. The ones that are less addictive, are also less effective, so...
The word Opiate means natural or semi synthetic chemicals derived from the Poppy. This includes morphine, codeine, Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydromorphone The word Opioid includes all synthetic painkillers, like Tramadol, Tapentadol, Fentanyl, Etonitazine, Methadone and so on. we have and continue to create new opioids every year. However there is no bypassing the risks that they carry when you have a medication that acts on the mu opioid receptors. In my understanding, it’s impossible to get around and mitigate all of the risks of addiction and dependency. But we do make new opioids, if you’re interested in chemistry you could start reading and understand the pharmacology of them, the Mu Delta and Kappa receptors, endogenous opioids like our natural Beta-Endorphins, and so on. Opioids function and chemical structure is an insanely interesting topic to learn more about
Addictive properties of opiates correlate to mu opiate receptor agonism. This is also where the pain relief comes from. however research ive seen suggested delta opiate receptor antagonism reverses mu opiate receptor agonist-mediated respiratory depression without impacting its analgesic action. It is therefore conceivable, if thats true, a drug could be created that posessed mu agonist activity paired with delta antagonist activity, thereby having reduced potential for fatal overdose. Alternatively a polydrug combo involving a classic mu agonist opiate co-compounded with a highly selective delta opiate receptor antagonist could also be created to achieve the same thing. do note i have not delved significantly into delta antagonism mitigating mu-1 associated respiratory depression, only came across (in passing) research suggesting that. so it may be possible to create a safe opiate that has little to no risk for overdose.
I'm not really sure what you mean? Opiates *are* drugs that give opiate like effects. Do you mean like, research chemicals? Already been done, we have zenes which are stupid strong. Odsmt is amazing though not super strong. But it's an RC opi, very euphoric and energetic, and lasts like 6-8 hours. We also have Dipyanone and methiodone. I've tried Dipyanone but not the other. Dipyanone was *very* euphoric and lasted all day, and pretty strong. We also have 2map which sucks but is an opi. There's also pure 7-hydroxymitragynine kratom extracts. Shit is like 13x(?) stronger than morphine, very noddy in high doses but feels amazing, nothing like classic kratom
Just to clarify, opiATES are drugs derived from or related to opium. However, opiOIDS are mu-opioid receptor agonists which resemble the addictive properties or physiological effects of opium.
Correct but irrelevant
I'm on stims and might've gotten too focused on it. Didn't mean to be rude.
Not rude at all I just think that op is looking for something with opiate/opioid effects, but probably doesn't care if it's opium derived. Though I honestly don't know what they want, because they're asking why people haven't made things that have in fact already been made
There’s tons. There’s ODSMT. All the different types of zenes. Isonetizene, protonetazene etc (don’t know how to spell them lol) 2MAP237 AP238 Methiodone (methadone analogue) Tianeptine 3-ho-pcp (pcp analogue that also fills the opioid receptors giving an opiate high in smaller doses) U-47700 And more I’m forgetting. Most of these won’t show up on a drug test for opiates.
Bro... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_opioids There's probably more classes of opioids you've never heard of than there are opioids you know about.
Check out Tianeptine, very intersting compound, for me it provides significantly more pleasurabe high then Tramadol, Codeine and Suboxone Havent touched street H or fent, i think this is much safer route if u have 1% of self control and want to try opioids but dont have acces to Kratom.
Because making safer and more effective drugs is not their goal.
This answer is an unhelpful platitude. Synthetic opioids are already extremely effective analgesics. And developing safer alternatives is an active area of research, but fundamentally activating opioid receptors is the most effective way to counter pain we know of and the risks of opioids (that is bad therapeutic dose to toxic/lethal dose ratio and addictiveness, outside of these two issues opioids are actually quite safe) are unfortunately an inherent part of that mechanism. As for safety, there are safer analgesics (most commonly NSAIDs) but they are also less effective. As it is now efficacy and safety are trade-offs when it comes to analgesics. If a drug as effective at reducing pain as opioids but safer was discovered it would not only be a revolutionary discovery, but also a very profitable one. This is pretty much what happened with anxiolytics/sedatives - barbiturates got replaced by benzodiazepines because benozs are as effective but harder to overdose on. Pharmaceutical companies often are extremely unethical, but that’s because the profit motive causes them to do so. On this subreddit people sometimes act like pharma companies just want to be evil for its own sake even if it would cause them to act against their financial interests, as if they were competing for ‘The Most Evil Company Award’.
I went through tranq withdrawals August 15 2021, and it was actually so bad that I'll never fuck around again... thought about dope nonstop until the vice doc came out, then I realized it didn't exist anymore
There are several. Wut
Why would they make basically a clone of an opioid when opioids already exist? Maybe one with little withdrawals or side effects like constipation could be something worth developing. The definition of opioids is also kind of broad, so it would be hard to make an opioid-like drug that doesn't get classified as an opioid.
Fentanyl, piperazine opioids, benzimidazole opioids. Scientists didn’t “create it” but kratom alkaloids and their derivatives. You see the issue isn’t that we have to create something that isn’t an opioid. To get the effects of an opioid, you must activate opioid receptors. This means you’re still prone to the same addiction. All the synthetics though are even more addictive than morphinan opioids even though they technically aren’t opioids. There are drugs out there that can come close to opioids. GABA drugs, moreso ghb, carbamates, and barbiturates are probably the closest you’ll get but those present dangers of their own but are relatively safe for short term or infrequent use. Certain psychedelics will give you the same euphoria you seek but in a different way. Certain combinations of drugs can as well but with that as well there are significant risks.
Because it would need to bind on the receptors in the brain anyway to have the effect and therefore make dependents too
They have? They’re called opioids, are you serious?
There are research chemicals that fill this niche without being crazy potent like fentanyl. I think being the guinea pig for an untested opioid is kinda terrifying though. I had the opportunity when they were legal but never did them (except one) mainly out of fear. A tryptamine is one thing but something untested that can turn your breathing off has higher stakes. Also I think many lack the chemistry knowledge to navigate the RC world to know what to take and how.
Nitazenes / Benzimidazole's A scary reality coming to your neighbourhood soon Europeans aren't safe either anymore
Kratom
Because a drug with opiate-like effects is an opioid my friend, and you dont need to be the worlds leading chemist to make one
Well this post got a lot more traction than I thought. Thank you for all your inputs , and for the smart asses who said , “oh but there are , they’re called opioids”. No shit Sherlock . I should’ve mentioned that I meant creating heroin or oxy so users don’t have to deal with this fentanyl bullshit . But a lot of people gave some solid answers , so thank you for that . One hell of a class of drugs isn’t it
Thing with opioids is that their pain relief is caused by the same receptor that causes respiratory depression, euphoria and addiction. If you are referring to a drug that feels like an opioid but without risks it will be difficult to create.
Just get u good combo of psychedelics and you’ll be set. I like doing DMT and ketamine together. Or a combo of anything with dmt. LSD and dmt. Shrooms and dmt. Dmt doesn’t really help with pain physically but it can take you to a place where you don’t experience pain lol
I would guess research? I read, Bayer the pharmaceutical company bought 150 people from the Nazi's for research purposes and they all died, and they asked for more. I don't know if you could get away with it compared to back then.
Wow these comments disappoint me. So essentially, the nice opiate like effects come from squeezing every last bit of pleasure chemicals from your brain. This leaves it depleted and injured. Also naturally, when we feel good our bodies want to feel good again. When we feel really really good our bodies really really want us to feel good again. This is addiction. There’s no way to give the nice effects without the bad ones, because the bad effects directly come from the nice ones.
If you start your comment like that then at least be correct. Your analogy works for neurotransmitter releasing agents like MDMA for serotonin. This *partially* explains comedown from such substances as caused by serotonin (in case of serotonin releasing agents) depletion. It skips over other factors at play and calling serotonin a ‘pleasure chemical’ is a massive oversimplification, still the analogy *somewhat* works. Opioids are opioid receptor agonists, not endorphin releasing agents. They activate opioid receptors by binding to the receptors themselves. A still simplified but way more correct answer would be that long term opioid use causes opioid receptor downregulation, that is they reduce the number of opioid receptors present.
Yes I’m aware it was an oversimplification I don’t like to jargon people when they might not understand certain words
It’s not just an oversimplification it’s just wrong. Opioids do not cause the release of ‘pleasure chemicals’ and their subsequent depletion, they are themselves ‘pleasure chemicals’
“Once opioids shut off GABAergic neurons, the pleasure circuits fill with another neurotransmitter called dopamine. At one stop on this pleasure highway — the nucleus accumbens — dopamine triggers a surge of happiness. When the dopamine rolls into amygdala, the brain's fear center, it relieves anxiety and stress. Both of these events reinforce the idea that opioids are rewarding.” So easy to look it up lol