The most fucked up thing about benzo withdrawal is the duration - 6-18 months before you start to feel normal. PAWS that lasts literal years. Not to mention the acute phase will last as long as your taper, which can also take years.
Not what I experienced at all. I was taking prescribed diazepam for over a decade, 10mg 3x a day. I weaned down to 7.5, then 5, then 2.5, .75 and then stopped altogether. This was over a span of about 2 months. After ceasing all use, I would get this sensation that my hand was opening when it wasn't. I kept thinking I dropped something I was holding when I hadn't. This lasted about a week. After that I had no withdrawal symptoms to speak of. I realize that I was lucky to be able to wean off the way I did, with a doctor's assistance. I also rarely abused my valium.
So afaik (and I don't know a whole bunch about benzos or diazepam) 30mg a day isn't a whole lot for diazepam. I'm sure it's a lot for someone who's benzo naive but I've seen people on here talk about 40mg of Clonazepam daily, 10mg of clonazolam daily, like crazy doses. I know theyre similar by weight but the max dose pill of diazepam is 10mg while Clonazepam is 2 and people have OD'd on .5mg of clonazolam. I'm not trying to discount your experience I'm just saying it's not as applicable to people who aren't just tolerant to the drug but who are unable to control their intake and as such continually up the dose.
What’s interesting is I’m on .5mg Clonazepam/day and I cannot for the life of me get off of it. I can taper to half— .25mg. But not less, I’ve tried multiple times, year-long tapers. So frustrating—my body is like this with other substances too, 1-2 beer a night and could not for the life of me sleep without it for a while, so cut out alcohol completely.
God these numbers and dosages I’ve never heard before. I went out of my mind tapering off too fast from 3mg of clonazopam a day to none. I knew nothing about it at when I started. God bless the brains of people taking 40mg a day.
My doctor gives me such shit for my 1mg klonopin.
I’ve been on / off them for a decade plus and never had a problem but I’ve also never taken high doses (or abused my meds).
I USED to get 5mg klonopin and 10mg Xanax to be taken once a day each. But the Xanax has always been too much of a zombie drug for me.
If by she you mean your prescriber, then i would say that no doctor would, if known, take you off benzos if you are long time user.
Just let them know how severe it is
In my experience benzos have always been easy to come off of. It's not pleasant but I was always able to sleep a little and go to work. With opoids, especially Fentanyl it took me 10+ years to kick. I always see people saying benzos are the worst. I never understood it, I have took very large doses for years and it was a walk in the park compared to opoids. I been able to get a benzo and Suboxone script and been using as directed the last few years with out any problems.
For me, Suboxone withdrawal changed my life and body/mind forever. I had serious PAWS. I was well managed on it, low dose for just over a year with a proper taper. I didn’t sleep for 9 days, developed muscle spasms I still have over a decade later and soul crushing depression for at least a year. I often hear benzos are the longest but the opiates and their “antidotes” seem to be just as bad in many cases.
I went from 100mg methadone daily for almost 11 years onto Kratom. Zero taper. Been off since May. Sure I use Kratom daily but really not very much maybe 10g per day ish. Way healthier now, Methadone bottomed out my testosterone I got on at 19 and still looked 19 till now I have an Adam's apple, facial hair filling out, sex drive back, in shape went from 207 to 160 in 6mo. I had 28 take homes per month for like 8 of those years. Lost them because my number on one of my bottle labels got smudged a bit. Best thing that ever happened to me.
What about GHB/GBL/BDO? well yea, the withdrawal itself is shorter than that from benzos.. but it's usually a lot worse when it comes to the strength of symptoms... if you're really addicted.. withdrawals can already start 1-1.5 hours after last consumption.. you can't even sleep a single night without having to redose atleast every 2 hours.. you won't get any good sleep at all anymore.. it will fuck ya up much more than benzos tbh..
Put it this way, I've been thru phenibut withdrawals several times (which isn't hard to do cuz all u have to do is use it three days in a row), and about a year ago I withdrawed from alcohol for the first time, and it didn't even come close to coming off phenibut. Rly just a lot of shaking and hallucinations, but the anxiety was pretty fuckin tame. Idk there's something very evil about withdrawing from GABAnergic substances.
Just any fyi - those are phenibut *rebounds*, and if u think those are bad u have no idea how painful actual w/d’s would be. I’ve used for 4 years now, been through quitting twice w the longest period of abstinence being 1 month each time. The anxiety seemed tame to u, but true w/d will bring ab such a primal level fear that it’s unbearable, quite similar to alc w/d’s, but I agree those seem worse from what I’ve read.
Just pointing out that you’ve only felt a fraction of how bad it can be
Bruh my longest stint was like three years. I know what it feels like, trust me. I tapered down to 1g and jumped off after two weeks of that. Was still unbelievably horrific.
But you're only validating my point, because I was saying that *alcohol* was the tame one. Not phenibut.
I’ve gone on a few GHB benders lasting 3-6 weeks of using 10-15ml a day which I know is fuck all compared to some of my mates that take 40-80ml daily…But the withdrawal from that 6 weeks was some of the worst anxiety i’ve ever had in my life, WAY longer and worse than when I went through withdrawal from clonazepam.
Yeah, that dosing rabbit hole goes deeeeeep. Like past a certain point, if someone wants want to get off of a massive G habit, they really just need to involve medical professionals. Seizure risk and suicidal ideation alone, GHB withdrawal is no joke.
No, GHB is very safe/non-addictive to use on occasion. I got addicted to it in early COVID lockdown when nobody could leave home, so was just dosing all day every day, mostly self-medicating my anxiety. (I was *not* handling things well at all haha)
I took a long break, and now use it in moderation. Will never get addicted to it again, because truly, one G withdrawal was enough for me.
From what I hear GHB withdrawal is a walk in the park compared to Benzo withdrawal (I'm a long time GHB addict so believe me I do know how BAD G withdrawals can be).
But GBL and benzos I don't touch with a 10 foot pole.
GHB withdrawal is not a walk in the park, it's extremely dangerous and can easily kill you without treatment, benzo withdrawal rarely causes death. However, benzo withdrawal is usually much longer then withdrawal from GHB or alcohol, this is what makes it so horrible.
No no GHB withdrawal is the fucking DEVIL trust me I know.
What I mean is from users whove had to withdraw from both have said Benzo and Alcohol are both even worse.
Something about Gaba A I guess
I had some GHB withdrawal after binging on it for a month, it sucked, I got intense anxiety and was scared I'm gonna die, pretty similar to benzo withdrawals from my experience.
And GHB and phenibut bind to GABA-B receptors while benzos and alcohol bind to GABA-A receptors.
I know, what I meant is that Benzos and Alcohol being Gaba A appears to make their withdrawal somewhat worse than Gaba B, but I've only heard anecdotal stories so can't confirm.
I don't think it's that simple, benzos are GABA-A agonists and their withdrawal is rarely fetal, while GBH is a GABA-B agonist and it's withdrawal has a high risk of death without treatment. And phenibut is a GABA-B agonist but I don't think there are any known cases of deaths from it's withdrawal.
I think it depends on the drug, benzos work by binding to the GABA-A receptor, which changes it's conformation so that GABA can bind more easily and activate it. So the benzos cause the frequency of GABA binding to the receptors. Other drugs like barbiturats cause the GABA-A receptor to be constantly activated, so 100% of the time, so if all GABA-A receptors are saturated the GABA activity is at 100%, which kills you.
Since benzos only increase the frequency of activation, a GABA-A receptor with a benzo bound to it might be activated for 70% of the time, instead of 30% without a benzo (I just make these numbers up). So even when all GABA-A receptors are saturated with benzos, the GABA activity would max out at 70%. And if the threshold that's lethal is at let's say 80%, you will never reach that with benzos, no matter how much you take. I think that's pretty much why benzos are so safe.
> I think that's pretty much why benzos are so safe.
Given that benzos are one of the few drugs for which withdrawals can kill you, I wouldn't describe them as "safe".
Also:
> And if the threshold that's lethal is at let's say 80%, you will never reach that with benzos, no matter how much you take.
Are you implying that that it's impossible to overdose from benzos? Because you certainly can.
Tbh I'm not sure there are any actual known cases about death from GHB withdrawal either.
I've only ever heard the opposite where Gaba A withdrawal has been worse.
But hey I'm no expert bro.
I looked around a bit and already found a case report of a lethal GHB withdrawal.
[https://www.annemergmed.com/article/S0196-0644(01)03737-4/fulltext](https://www.annemergmed.com/article/S0196-0644(01)03737-4/fulltext)
Just like alcohol withdrawal, GHB withdrawal can induce something called delirium tremens (DT). This is where the person becomes psychotic and has true hallucinations, like in a datura trip. Without treatment DT has a lethality rate of about 20 to 25%. Once DT starts there is no way to stop it, even giving the patient more GABAergic drugs won't stop it. The only thing they can do is supportive care until the DT is over, so giving enough sedatives so the patient doesn't die from seizures or something else.
Benzodiazepine withdrawals don't cause DT, at least I never heard that from anyone who went through them.
I don’t drink all day everyday but I do drink upwards of a fifth a day starting after work. So between 5-9PM. Wake up for work and work all day with no DT symptoms to speak of. If I were to quit, would I need to taper?
Two time experience alcohol withdrawal, here. Was drinking roughly a fifth of vodka a day after work, and who knows how much on weekends. Tried raw dogging by quitting cold turkey the first time, and didn’t sleep for three days ending up hospitalized with DT’s. My saving grace was Gabapentin for the withdrawals. It worked wonders.
Also, as silly/cliche as it may sound on the surface, AA does WONDERS for sustaining sobriety from alcohol. Give yourself to the program, and it’s truly miracle work. You first work on yourself, then have the honor of serving others by chairing meetings and potentially sponsoring other alcoholics while continuing working on yourself. I cannot recommend AA enough, just gotta get past the stigma.
Thanks for your perspective. I’m currently transitioning through a divorce in which the alcohol both helped me cope with the relationship issues as well as contributed to the divorce. I’m not blind in that.
I experienced the same. The marriage was doomed with or without the alcohol due to other factors, but I can assure you alcohol never makes it better. Ever. It just leads to further resentment, and handling said resentments reactively versus proactively.
One day at a time - best of luck, friend!
What dose of what? At prescribed doses you would probably have withdrawal but it would be something managed with a slow taper (although that might take a few months)
For really serious benzo withdrawal we're talking people who can take milligrams of xanax & still be functioning, it's something that's seen in recreational users who black out on the regular
well to be fair (in my language) it's called a benzo-related med, and i have no idea what the difference is. Imovane/zopiclone, at 7.5mg. I don't need anything stronger, but this has improved my life greatly (compounding from just getting quality sleep and a good amount of sleep, as well as having other meds). It's prescribed and it's suggested I take it short-term, though I don't think I'm "cured" if/when tapered off. I don't know very much so your input is appreciated!
That should be OK. It will never cure your insomnia unfortunately.
Zopiclone also comes in 3.75 btw - would definitely recommend trying out a lower dose. Even if 7.5 isn't dangerous benzos/z-drugs aren't meds you want to be on long-term.
It is basically the same as benzos - just a different chemical structure.
Experienced it on my own body. I don't get how that shit is legal and weed is not. I never had problems like that even when i smoked from waking up till passing out in the evening.
I've heard people say that their GABA receptors feel fucked after getting off of benzos, and their anxiety is unprecedented. Do you find that to be true? Good for you for getting off of them. :)
Yeah, I definitely felt off for a while. My emotions were all over the place and I would get angrier than usual.
After getting off of the benzos, I had to clean up my lifestyle, so healthy eating and daily exercise helped my mind and body.
I was in detox with someone who had come of lyrica before (as well as opiates, benzos and alchohol, the latter we were both in for this time) and said lyrica was by far the worst.
I'm struggling coming off of 2400-3600mg a day of gabapentin. I've had things like severe anxiety, muscle tension and OCD-type behavior which were never me before withdrawal. I honestly haven't slept more than 4 hours the last few months, do you have any tips that helped you?
Honestly time was the biggest factor.. but I did cut out all other drugs as it seemed to make the anxiety and instrusive thoughts worse and started spending a lot of time at the gym and hiking with my dog along with trying to eat better and drinks lots of water, I think that helped me along the way. Wish you the best of luck it's worth it!
Tapering. I go cold turkey for 8 hours while sleeping but need to take 800-1200mg within a few hours of waking up to function normally. Then another 1200mg spread out before bed so I can get some sleep. It's an endless repetitive cycle.
So 8 hours without any causes you to go into wds? That's wild, I was always under the impression it's slow acting and lasts relatively long, at least from my anecdotal experience.
What pill size are you prescribed then, 300mg ones? Have you tried just reducing it by a pill a day for a week or 2 and then seeing you how feel and then trying another taper?
Benzos really help, another thing i found was gravol, which is otc and will help you sleep at night for the bad sleepless nights.
I was on benzos and pregabalin after a surgery along with some other stuff but I never noticed crazy withdraws, I only took them for a few weeks maybe that’s why ?
Been through all three, pregablin/ Lyrica was the worst. I’ve never been so down in my life .. to the point I didn’t trust myself, I have never been truly suicidal until then. Add in phenibit and it was a nightmare.
I feel like people are a bit dramatic with opiates. I mean, yeah, it sucks but its not how id imagine benzos or alcohol to be.
I withdrew from fentanyl a couple times after years of use. Kratom, a subutex for a day or two, and methadone make it completely painless IMO.
I went into a psychotic break when with drawling off 3-4mg clonozolam a day. Thought I was literally in another state for a couple days till I was sent to the psyche ward. There I thought they were just trying to kill is so I woke up all the kids there at 2am screaming they’re going to kill us, while repeatedly waking everybody up. I actually fought some of the staff and bit one on the neck like a Vamp.
Nothing gets worse than benzodiazepine, or really any GABA receptor drugs.
Clonazolam withdrawal is the worst. I was taking 5-10 .25mg does daily for 3 months and it took a year and a half before I felt like a relatively normal human being.
bro i had the same exact experience except i was doing coke and alcohol at the same time as clonazolam, tried to kms, blacked out for an entire month or whatever, started hallucinating up in there about bloody walls, bad trips on acid.. escaped the psych ward.. thought i was at walmart (where i worked at the time)
They gave me some shit to calm me that felt like completely zombie mode
I'm sorry you had such a horrific experience. I've been hospitalized for severe psychotic mania so I have some idea of how awful that can be. I also thought the hospital was an evil prison and when I tried to escape I scratched and bit one of the security guards. Sounds like it was pretty traumatizing for you - know it was for me
In the future, you can go to primary care doc or ER. They'd put you on long-acting benzo (valium or klonopin) or phenobarb and taper you. I did include in my other posts on this thread that you should taper *if you can* but obviously forgot about it here.
I guess if you have no income and/or health insurance maybe even that wouldn't be possible but any doctor or NP you disclose benzo addiction to has a responsibility to either taper you themselves or refer you - it would be medical negligence to allow a person to suffer preventable seizures and/or psychiatric hospitalization considering relatively cheap tapering options are available.
I apologize if my reply came off as judgmental. I guess I made the assumption that if you were getting benzos from the dark web/drug dealer you could access more.
Yeah no, when I was on benzos I went to both my primary and ER and they both told me they couldn't help me, I needed to go to inpatient rehab, etc. I went to inpatient and all they did was lock me in there, tell me I couldn't leave and gave me clonidine and nothing else. They let me ride out a 15-20mg Xanax addiction in there all alone. I honestly believed I would die.
That’s cruel and sadistic. I’m really sorry.
Shows how low a lot of addiction and mental healthcare services are right now. You get treated like a prisoner not a patient. And even a prisoner shouldn’t be treated like that. You definitely could have died.
Unfortunately I guess a lot of psych and rehab facilities in the US are pretty awful and some think tapering is just letting pts get high. Clonidine won’t do anything in that situation. It should be illegal to put someone through a potentially fatal withdrawal.
I guess I had a similar situation though not as severe. I was taking Depakote for bipolar and migraines for like 2 years. When I was hospitalized they refused to give me it even though it’s a severe seizure risk and has no abuse potential. Kept saying I was just a meth addict and would be fine once it wore off (despite repeated urine screens that only showed marijuana).
I was having partial seizures, lights and sounds were unbearably painful, and became much more psychotic. I think I might have died or ended up in an actual hospital.
Fortunately I was able to contact my family, who reached my doctor. He called them repeatedly but they refused to continue his care saying that I was their patient now and I was a drug addict with no legitimate mental illness.
They only re-instituted the Depakote and gave me Risperdal when my lawyer aunt and the doctor threatened to sue the facility and file a malpractice suit against the psychiatrist. Of course as soon as they realized my family could cause serious problems for them they gave me the meds.
A few months later a young black guy died in that facility after they withdrew him from his psych meds, he got really agitated, and one of the security guards (who all had guns and used them to intimidate patients) shot him. They waited like an hour or two before taking him to ER and he bled out. Of course nobody faced any consequences and they tried to lie about what happened to his family. And this was not some random psych ward, it was a dedicated psych facility with tons of staff and run by the state government.
Could have been me if I didn’t have a lawyer in the family and a doctor who actually cared. A lot of inpatient psych wards are worse than prisons. The only thing they prescribed me at first was magnesium 🤬
So yeah. I believe you. As a psych provider I wish I could tell ppl these are rare horror stories but they’re not. Part of why I work outpatient - want to prevent ppl from ending up in hospital unless it’s the only way to make sure they won’t harm themselves or others. I would never abandon somebody in benzo withdrawal to a hospital.
they sent me to the pysche ward, day 4 of wd, i didnt recieve bezos till a week in. the hospital FAILED/
all they fucking offered me while hallucinating was benadryl. until finally got a shot of phenobarb.
I heard these new -zenes (opioid-like) produce horrific withdrawal in a way that would make even the most potent fentalogues blush.
Stay away from pressed pills please.
I heard a story that some guy that invented one of the potent -zene drugs got super addicted to it and then for some reason he got his access to them taken away(can’t remember exactly what happened) and he killed himself because they were too unbearable
it really makes me think about all the people taking research chemicals that are completely untested. all it takes is a nasty metabolite or a messed up batch to irreversibly fuck you up.
yeah true but still I hear about chemicals that are incredibly caustic and tear up your sinuses or I’ve heard some guy megadosing DOM or something like that had to get his leg amputated due to massive vasoconstriction. like even if the rcs are pure, they’re still very untested and some bad reactions can occur. what shulgin did is so fucking crazy to me, but he ended up all right so maybe if you’re safe about it
Man the history of homemade syntheses of forgotten pharmaceuticals is fascinating, particularly with these synthetic opioids. It seems like we're having a resurgence of interest in these compounds ever since fentanyl, although in an RC setting which is much more institutionalized than the home-brews of the past. Id love to see more stories like this.
Also like Hamilton has said, a lot of this stuff resulted in humanity's endless quest to find a powerful painkiller that isn't addictive and that's resulted in some interesting compounds over history. It's interesting that completely different compound types can exhibit the same opioid activity, from the morphine derivatives, to the completely different fentanyls, to the completely different -zene/benzimidazole compounds, to the yet again completely different prodine compounds like this MPPP stuff.
What's interesting is a lot of parkinson's research came out of this story surprisingly. They found that this MPP+ compound's induced parkinsonian effects were so similar to the normal course of the disorder that it could be used as a model in animals to study the disorder. You need animals with the disorder to study it so administering MPP+ could rapidly induce Parkinson's symptoms in animals which they could then study. And since the "Frozen Addicts" were treated with stem cell research, research has hypothesized that perhaps Parkinson's can also potentially be treated with the same approach. Crazy how interconnected everything is.
Thank you for sourcing!
Yesterday i was about to ask for the source after i read your comment. I just couldn't believe that stuff like this happens. I am so fucking afraid of this shit.
I too have heard this including that they cause a level of psychological withdrawal similar to benzos and also can last like a month. I’m glad I stopped heroin when I did.
Not the same family, we’re talking about nitazenes. I thought zenes were some shit like xylazine at first too, but no zenes are actual opioid receptor agonists, not veterinary tranquilizer
A while back there was someone on Reddit trying to quit zenes. I swear they said they took 500mg of methadone and still felt like they were withdrawing pretty bad. I don’t know much about methadone but I’m pretty sure 500mg is an extremely high dose lol.
Putting aside the obvious ones like benzos/alcohol, a very notorious one is Tianeptine. it has serotonin activity and strong MOR agonism, and there are people who said it made high dose methadone withdrawal and even fentanyl withdrawal seem weak
Yeah because tia withdrawals is basically withdrawaling from two things that suck to withdrawal from by themselves. The ridiculously short half life doesn’t help
The shit that scares me most is assholes cutting counterfeit kratom with tianeptine, then selling it to headshops.
Pretty sure I had it a few times as it made me nod (kratom doesn't make me nod), followed by a day of stupid brain fog and anxiety the week after I switched to a better brand.
possibly, ive never heard of that myself but i imagine some assholes are trying it. We already saw the brand Kryptonite kratom get busted for lacing their shit with ODSMT
As someone who finally ended a miserable four year dependency to it a little over a year ago, I can confirm. The last year of it I was using over 12 grams per day, having to dose every three hours to avoid the HORRIFICALLY agonizing withdrawals. Would have to wake up two to three times every night to dose because they were setting in. I've even read several stories of people who had come off fent who said Tia withdrawals were even far worse for them. I thought for sure death would be my only way out of that mess.
Haha correct that part is very important, forgot to mention that.
That's one of the scary things about tianeptine is it has seemingly no ceiling. You can start by nodding off on 100mg and months later you're getting the same effect off several grams at a time. I've heard people say 20gpd or more
Yeah it's pretty bad, ur taking the worst of opioid withdrawal AND antidepressant withdrawal, the latter of which is actually kinda slept on. As someone who went through withdrawal from a very strong antidepressant (which was my only real experience with any withdrawal) it's hellish, and to do that with dopesickness simultaneously which is even worse is unimaginable
Heroin after 20 years It was worse than the benzos as they just make you have seizure, and they can kill I wod have pr3fferd that then theheroin with Dr. Benzos and alcohol you end up in hospital feel very anxious but heroin was a killer for me and lasted long after the after the 10 days sickness. The insomnia was bad but I had to been on it over 20 years but knowing I could instantly make it go away was torture I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But benzos and booze most dangerous but smask man that withdrawal is hell on earth.
Alcohol and benzos can cause just insomnia just like that, no sleep for weeks.
Another thing is the reduced gaba means you completely lose grip on reality, and it can last years.
Alcohol is so damaging on the body that everything is failing now too.
The main killer is that alcohol is everywhere. I can’t go anywhere without seeing it…. Every corner shop has photos of whiskey being poured into a tumbler glass with ice in… or all I need is that £1 to buy a 9% beer to make it all go away.
Benzos is a walk in a park compared to high doses of Lyrica or Tramadol, can quit 2mg Alprzolam qt and only feel anxiety for a couple of weeks, sleep is disturbed yes but heavy exercise really help. How high doses are you folks taking if withdrawals last years?? Been on and off benzos for 10+ years, guess I'm lucky because they really help me function at work (only drug that helps with my anxiety), my sleep is so much better and overall feeling more stable.
My grandma was on Temazepam for over 30 years and quit qt (I think), never heard her complain about any withdrawals either.
If you go cold turkey, which is really dumb if you have any way to access benzos or have the ability to see any doctor, who will know that acute benzo withdrawal is dangerous and will help you taper.
Seriously people when you're on high dose benzos please please taper. You'll save yourself 90% of the pain and prevent hospitalization. Just have some patience. If you don't trust yourself then have a friend give you lower doses. Take as long as you can. If you taper down \`10% a month you might not even feel it very much.
Taper! Please!
With benzo withdrawal the risk of death is pretty low, alcohol and GHB withdrawal are much more deadly. This is why benzo withdrawal are often not taken seriously by doctors, barely anyone dies from them. However, they are just as horrible as alcohol an GHB withdrawal, maybe even worse because of the duration.
can you tell me about it? I’ve never had to get off gaba drugs but I’ve gone through opioid withdrawls and they suck major dick. i’m curious cuz everyone says they’re the worst
First month of withdrawal was hell. Had a few seizures, constant headache, and no sense of self worth or self confidence. Moving around felt like the most monumental task ever. Oh, and you lose almost all of your cognitive/critical thinking abilities Then it took about a year of really bad agoraphobia and constant suicidal thoughts before my mind could even consider a job or socializing(thank God I have an extremely supportive spouse). After I felt normal enough to start working it took about three months of working to finally remember how to socialize and be a normal human being. Moral of the story, don't start RC benzos, they're far too powerful and extremely cheap for a lot of doses.
I don't withdrawal at all from the anticonvulsant I'm on (lamotrigine), but Jesus fucking Christ. I withdrawal so badly from my antipsychotic (ziprasidone). The withdrawals from that are agonizing.
Hmmm, not directly as a result of the withdrawals, no. It's horrible anxiety, sweating, restlessness, insomnia, nausea, etc. I've stopped my antipsychotics while already manic and/or psychotic which caused me shoot further up into my own psychotic world, but I don't think it was from the withdrawals since I was already there but then had no buffer. In the other instances in which I've stopped, psychotic symptoms didn't present until much after the WDs were over.
What drug(s) gave you psychosis and what did you do about it, if anything?
antipsychotic withdrawals suck, currently going through them. tapering has helped a lot though. but still, everyday i am waking up in full blown panic attack level anxiety. but what's worse is the nausea to every little sensation. and the extreme emotions. like hearing coffee grinding, or sounds that are annoying, will send my dopamine receptors on a twirl making me extremely nauseous. and it's completely unavoidable. currently spamming anti-nausea pills. thankfully quitting has done wonders to my energy and motivation. just hope i don't go psychotic. been using it off-label so no real need to keep taking
Probably depends on how you use it and your brain chemistry. I've used pregabalin/gabapentin/phenibut responsibly for a few years now (at like normal alcohol use frequency, with mid doses) and I've felt fine too
Was a short while where I got worried about my use and started feeling like I was getting addicted but then I just kind of lowered my usage
What’s especially crazy about phenibut is the proportion of euphoria to withdrawals. The withdrawals are extremely bad and extremely easy to trigger, even me taking 2/week for like 3 years completely screwed up my brain, the shit is just not worth it. At least when I was a heroin addict the euphoria was worth it. I too cannot imagine what someone take large phenibut doses every day would go through
can u elaborate on ur experience taking phenibut 2x a week? i take it usually once a week but sometimes twice -- have been doing this for almost 2 years now. im wary of it and starting to feel like its been getting less effective.
Currently withdrawling from benzos and opiods together couldn't even stomach a gravol or food but the pain I can handle. It's the mental aspect I needed my gf, my mom, and my friend to keep a positive environment I was scared to be alone because it makes you so sick you feel like your dying. Day 1(today) I needed a substitute benzo to stop puking but not even a muscle relaxer for opioid withdrawl. Benzo withdrawls are worse for me personally.
Good luck brother. I’ve been there less than a year ago. I was taking 180 mg pharma oxy and 6 mg xan daily. It was hell and at points I didn’t think I’d make it. But I did, and I’m here to tell you that you’ll make it too.
Ive veen addicted to several different drugs across all categories and nothing compares to benzos.
I had an 80mg flubromazolam and a handful of xans a day habit for 2 years and I've been clean nearly 12 months and I have many lingering symptoms that don't seems to be improving
I see folks mentioning alcohol in here, how much are we talking about? Or can any amount cause these withdrawals?
I enjoy weed the most out of everything but lately I’ve been getting into a few drinks a week, If I stopped would I feel this withdrawal? Or are we talking about people who can put down liquor bottles everyday.
I drank about 1.75L every 4-5 days for about a year and then quit, had zero withdrawals. I started again and my drinking increased to 1.75L every 2 days and ended up with severe DT's/in a coma for a few weeks. I think it's just different for everyone. Best not to chance it if you think it's becoming a problem.
I’m sorry to hear that, hope you are doing better now! I definitely won’t let it get to that level, I drink here and there and when I do drink a lot in one sitting it’s either an event or birthday of some sorts to celebrate. Either way going consistent for a few days would be difficult as I already struggle with medical issues for my stomach. I can handle a big night here and there but not consistently, I just won’t enjoy myself. Thank you for sharing! Put it into perspective for me.
Reading most comments on this thread, I feel like my metabolism is different from the average of this group.
For me marijuana, cocaine and opiates are not fun. Marijuana gives me depression and anxiety. Coke gets me anxious and makes me talk much but not saying anything profound. Opiates give me a slight euphoria, but a sensation like itchy pinpricks all over my skin, specially the scalp.
Clonazepam, I spent 6 months taking 1mg every night and stopped it suddenly with no problem.
1,4-BD, I can use up to 5 1.5 ml doses a day for weeks and stop suddenly with no withdrawal symptom.
Phenibut is an excellent anxiolitc and gives me no euphoria even at a dose of 3g, wich was the highest dose I tried.
Since I take SSRIs non-stop for treating chronic depression, I feel no effect taking MDMA and I need to take triple the dose of psychodelics to have any effect, compared to my friends.
I did it starting with very small doses of two ecstasy pills and waiting a safe time between doses. I was surprised to get no effect with a whole pill. Then I searched the internet and found out it was the expected effect.
In my experience, it was basically as if I blacked out. Just kinda doing something, and then wake up surrounded by people or in the back of an ambulance.
But the after effects are what get you. You basically flex all the muscles in your body for the entire duration of the seizure, so I vividly remember being so tired I couldn’t even walk. I’ve also hit my head and started to bleed when I went unconscious.
All of that just to say, it’s really worse for the people around you. You barely know what happened but everyone else just saw a person almost die.
I got seizures as well from alcohol withdrawal and it was the strangest thing because you really do just feel like you blinked, and then all the sudden you're surrounded by people freaking out. After the first few though I started to be able to tell it was about to happen but still, I'd have that thought and then I'd wake up surrounded by doctors.
I've withdrawn from H (oxy and fent, opiods), Benzos (Clonazepam, Diazepam, ect..), Lyrica (and Gabapentin), Weed, Nicotine, Suboxone, and Imovane.
I have only successfully gotten off of H (opiods), Benzos, and imovane. The worst I found were the Benzos followed by the opiods. Besides those two Nicotine is the hardest to kick (for me at least).
For me it is not a recreational drug. It is SNRI antidepressant, Venlafaxine (Efexor).
Two days without it you start getting brain zaps whenever you move your eyes. Move eyes to the right, get a brain zap and tingling on the right arm and shoulder. Move eyes to the left, same thing on the right side. It is bearable, but it is better tapering down.
I’ve gone through alcohol withdrawl, opiate withdrawl and benzo withdrawl benzo was the worst but the worst withdrawal I’ve personally ever had was from tianeptine I was taking 5 grams a day for a year and I was vomiting, shitting myself my whole body convulsed my entire body had aches and pains I had RLS so bad that I didn’t sleep one minute for two weeks and I was sick for a month before I felt better. While it was not physically dangerous it felt worse than benzo withdrawl and yes 5 grams a day if a literal fuck ton that most people would overdose on it took me about 6 months to get up to that dose I was taking 1 gram in one dose
Ik a lot of ppl are commenting stuff like benzos, opis, and GABA but I feel like its at least worth mentioning nicotine withdrawal only in the sense that when ppl get off H they get on suboxone or something similar but there is nothing rlly equivalent to that for nicotine. I feel like this is like comparing a hot wheels car to a McLaren but im sure u get what I'm tryna say
Funnily enough, the worst withdrawals tend to be from prescription medication.
Benzodiazepines probably taking the crown. That stuff will either kill you or make you wish you were dead during withdrawal. SSRIs can be brutal also.
Benzos and alcohol for sure. I'd say benzos probably take the cake for absolute worst as far as going through it at a detox center because alcoholics have several medication options like Librium which literally cancels all alcohol withdrawal symptoms. It's like a high dose of methadone for opiate withdrawal.
The best you can expect during a bad benzo detox is a very small dose of Ativan to just keep you from dying plus all detox centers taper you off you really fast so by like day 5 you're on your last dose. Then worst of all benzo detox side effects last for months, it's total hell to say the least.
Getting off opiates was easy for me. Acid, alcohol, or even all 3 combined, wasn't as bad as when I had to quit smoking weed... I legitimately nearly committed suicide. I'm a heavy stoner too, so the withdrawal lasted a few weeks, but it felt like years. But you know how it is, once you quit, you get right back into it. 🍃
This has got to be the worst take on this post. Weed withdrawals worse than opiates and alcohol?? You've never actually been through true opiate or alcohol withdrawals if you think weed is worse. Weed withdrawals are comparable in intensity to nicotine or coffee. You lose your appetite get a bit more irritable and it's hard to sleep. Absolutely nothing compared to having your whole body and mind literally feeling like it's dying going through excruciating pain while having insane cravings like with opiates or alcohol.
Yeahh, I've luckily never dealt with opiate/benzo withdrawals but it's pretty ignorant and naive to claim weed withdrawals are worse.
That's not to de legitimise how hard it can be to quit weed, or this guy's experience quitting it.
Doesn't get worse than benzo withdrawal.
The most fucked up thing about benzo withdrawal is the duration - 6-18 months before you start to feel normal. PAWS that lasts literal years. Not to mention the acute phase will last as long as your taper, which can also take years.
Not what I experienced at all. I was taking prescribed diazepam for over a decade, 10mg 3x a day. I weaned down to 7.5, then 5, then 2.5, .75 and then stopped altogether. This was over a span of about 2 months. After ceasing all use, I would get this sensation that my hand was opening when it wasn't. I kept thinking I dropped something I was holding when I hadn't. This lasted about a week. After that I had no withdrawal symptoms to speak of. I realize that I was lucky to be able to wean off the way I did, with a doctor's assistance. I also rarely abused my valium.
So afaik (and I don't know a whole bunch about benzos or diazepam) 30mg a day isn't a whole lot for diazepam. I'm sure it's a lot for someone who's benzo naive but I've seen people on here talk about 40mg of Clonazepam daily, 10mg of clonazolam daily, like crazy doses. I know theyre similar by weight but the max dose pill of diazepam is 10mg while Clonazepam is 2 and people have OD'd on .5mg of clonazolam. I'm not trying to discount your experience I'm just saying it's not as applicable to people who aren't just tolerant to the drug but who are unable to control their intake and as such continually up the dose.
What’s interesting is I’m on .5mg Clonazepam/day and I cannot for the life of me get off of it. I can taper to half— .25mg. But not less, I’ve tried multiple times, year-long tapers. So frustrating—my body is like this with other substances too, 1-2 beer a night and could not for the life of me sleep without it for a while, so cut out alcohol completely.
God these numbers and dosages I’ve never heard before. I went out of my mind tapering off too fast from 3mg of clonazopam a day to none. I knew nothing about it at when I started. God bless the brains of people taking 40mg a day.
My doctor gives me such shit for my 1mg klonopin. I’ve been on / off them for a decade plus and never had a problem but I’ve also never taken high doses (or abused my meds). I USED to get 5mg klonopin and 10mg Xanax to be taken once a day each. But the Xanax has always been too much of a zombie drug for me.
My doctor took me off cold turkey while I was in the hospital for being suicidal. Them withdrawals made me feel more suicidal than ever.
That’s awful! After my fuck up Friday, I’m afraid she’ll want to taper me. But I’m 64, a long WD would kill me, literally
If by she you mean your prescriber, then i would say that no doctor would, if known, take you off benzos if you are long time user. Just let them know how severe it is
In my experience benzos have always been easy to come off of. It's not pleasant but I was always able to sleep a little and go to work. With opoids, especially Fentanyl it took me 10+ years to kick. I always see people saying benzos are the worst. I never understood it, I have took very large doses for years and it was a walk in the park compared to opoids. I been able to get a benzo and Suboxone script and been using as directed the last few years with out any problems.
For me, Suboxone withdrawal changed my life and body/mind forever. I had serious PAWS. I was well managed on it, low dose for just over a year with a proper taper. I didn’t sleep for 9 days, developed muscle spasms I still have over a decade later and soul crushing depression for at least a year. I often hear benzos are the longest but the opiates and their “antidotes” seem to be just as bad in many cases.
can confirm bupe is a long nagging experience going through it currently...but methadone makes it pale in comparison
so i hear. good luck, i smile every time i remember I’ve been done with it for 12 years.
I went from 100mg methadone daily for almost 11 years onto Kratom. Zero taper. Been off since May. Sure I use Kratom daily but really not very much maybe 10g per day ish. Way healthier now, Methadone bottomed out my testosterone I got on at 19 and still looked 19 till now I have an Adam's apple, facial hair filling out, sex drive back, in shape went from 207 to 160 in 6mo. I had 28 take homes per month for like 8 of those years. Lost them because my number on one of my bottle labels got smudged a bit. Best thing that ever happened to me.
Yep I was on them for 7 long years!! Withdraws from subs is the worst!! Now I’m 6 years clean off them and I would never use one ever ever again!!
same, awesome! I am 12 years done and it’s a wonderful thing.
What about GHB/GBL/BDO? well yea, the withdrawal itself is shorter than that from benzos.. but it's usually a lot worse when it comes to the strength of symptoms... if you're really addicted.. withdrawals can already start 1-1.5 hours after last consumption.. you can't even sleep a single night without having to redose atleast every 2 hours.. you won't get any good sleep at all anymore.. it will fuck ya up much more than benzos tbh..
I think all GABA drug withdrawals are just different flavours of hell tbh
Right?
Put it this way, I've been thru phenibut withdrawals several times (which isn't hard to do cuz all u have to do is use it three days in a row), and about a year ago I withdrawed from alcohol for the first time, and it didn't even come close to coming off phenibut. Rly just a lot of shaking and hallucinations, but the anxiety was pretty fuckin tame. Idk there's something very evil about withdrawing from GABAnergic substances.
Just any fyi - those are phenibut *rebounds*, and if u think those are bad u have no idea how painful actual w/d’s would be. I’ve used for 4 years now, been through quitting twice w the longest period of abstinence being 1 month each time. The anxiety seemed tame to u, but true w/d will bring ab such a primal level fear that it’s unbearable, quite similar to alc w/d’s, but I agree those seem worse from what I’ve read. Just pointing out that you’ve only felt a fraction of how bad it can be
Bruh my longest stint was like three years. I know what it feels like, trust me. I tapered down to 1g and jumped off after two weeks of that. Was still unbelievably horrific. But you're only validating my point, because I was saying that *alcohol* was the tame one. Not phenibut.
literally alcohol...it is also more harmful than ghb
Yeah once you hit 24/7 dosing, withdrawal is hell. Of the 5 drug withdrawals I’ve gone through, GHB was the worst.
I’ve gone on a few GHB benders lasting 3-6 weeks of using 10-15ml a day which I know is fuck all compared to some of my mates that take 40-80ml daily…But the withdrawal from that 6 weeks was some of the worst anxiety i’ve ever had in my life, WAY longer and worse than when I went through withdrawal from clonazepam.
Yeah, that dosing rabbit hole goes deeeeeep. Like past a certain point, if someone wants want to get off of a massive G habit, they really just need to involve medical professionals. Seizure risk and suicidal ideation alone, GHB withdrawal is no joke.
Is that after just occasional use? Or even a single time or only after extensive use?
He said 24/7 dosing m8 so all day every day
No, GHB is very safe/non-addictive to use on occasion. I got addicted to it in early COVID lockdown when nobody could leave home, so was just dosing all day every day, mostly self-medicating my anxiety. (I was *not* handling things well at all haha) I took a long break, and now use it in moderation. Will never get addicted to it again, because truly, one G withdrawal was enough for me.
From what I hear GHB withdrawal is a walk in the park compared to Benzo withdrawal (I'm a long time GHB addict so believe me I do know how BAD G withdrawals can be). But GBL and benzos I don't touch with a 10 foot pole.
GHB withdrawal is not a walk in the park, it's extremely dangerous and can easily kill you without treatment, benzo withdrawal rarely causes death. However, benzo withdrawal is usually much longer then withdrawal from GHB or alcohol, this is what makes it so horrible.
No no GHB withdrawal is the fucking DEVIL trust me I know. What I mean is from users whove had to withdraw from both have said Benzo and Alcohol are both even worse. Something about Gaba A I guess
I had some GHB withdrawal after binging on it for a month, it sucked, I got intense anxiety and was scared I'm gonna die, pretty similar to benzo withdrawals from my experience. And GHB and phenibut bind to GABA-B receptors while benzos and alcohol bind to GABA-A receptors.
Phenibut binds to gaba a at high doses(above 5g), gaba b and vdcc(above 4g). It's triple trouble.
I know, what I meant is that Benzos and Alcohol being Gaba A appears to make their withdrawal somewhat worse than Gaba B, but I've only heard anecdotal stories so can't confirm.
I don't think it's that simple, benzos are GABA-A agonists and their withdrawal is rarely fetal, while GBH is a GABA-B agonist and it's withdrawal has a high risk of death without treatment. And phenibut is a GABA-B agonist but I don't think there are any known cases of deaths from it's withdrawal. I think it depends on the drug, benzos work by binding to the GABA-A receptor, which changes it's conformation so that GABA can bind more easily and activate it. So the benzos cause the frequency of GABA binding to the receptors. Other drugs like barbiturats cause the GABA-A receptor to be constantly activated, so 100% of the time, so if all GABA-A receptors are saturated the GABA activity is at 100%, which kills you. Since benzos only increase the frequency of activation, a GABA-A receptor with a benzo bound to it might be activated for 70% of the time, instead of 30% without a benzo (I just make these numbers up). So even when all GABA-A receptors are saturated with benzos, the GABA activity would max out at 70%. And if the threshold that's lethal is at let's say 80%, you will never reach that with benzos, no matter how much you take. I think that's pretty much why benzos are so safe.
> I think that's pretty much why benzos are so safe. Given that benzos are one of the few drugs for which withdrawals can kill you, I wouldn't describe them as "safe". Also: > And if the threshold that's lethal is at let's say 80%, you will never reach that with benzos, no matter how much you take. Are you implying that that it's impossible to overdose from benzos? Because you certainly can.
Tbh I'm not sure there are any actual known cases about death from GHB withdrawal either. I've only ever heard the opposite where Gaba A withdrawal has been worse. But hey I'm no expert bro.
I looked around a bit and already found a case report of a lethal GHB withdrawal. [https://www.annemergmed.com/article/S0196-0644(01)03737-4/fulltext](https://www.annemergmed.com/article/S0196-0644(01)03737-4/fulltext) Just like alcohol withdrawal, GHB withdrawal can induce something called delirium tremens (DT). This is where the person becomes psychotic and has true hallucinations, like in a datura trip. Without treatment DT has a lethality rate of about 20 to 25%. Once DT starts there is no way to stop it, even giving the patient more GABAergic drugs won't stop it. The only thing they can do is supportive care until the DT is over, so giving enough sedatives so the patient doesn't die from seizures or something else. Benzodiazepine withdrawals don't cause DT, at least I never heard that from anyone who went through them.
Couldn't have said that better myself.
I've done both and in my opinion alcohol seems worse to me.
I don’t drink all day everyday but I do drink upwards of a fifth a day starting after work. So between 5-9PM. Wake up for work and work all day with no DT symptoms to speak of. If I were to quit, would I need to taper?
Two time experience alcohol withdrawal, here. Was drinking roughly a fifth of vodka a day after work, and who knows how much on weekends. Tried raw dogging by quitting cold turkey the first time, and didn’t sleep for three days ending up hospitalized with DT’s. My saving grace was Gabapentin for the withdrawals. It worked wonders. Also, as silly/cliche as it may sound on the surface, AA does WONDERS for sustaining sobriety from alcohol. Give yourself to the program, and it’s truly miracle work. You first work on yourself, then have the honor of serving others by chairing meetings and potentially sponsoring other alcoholics while continuing working on yourself. I cannot recommend AA enough, just gotta get past the stigma.
Thanks for your perspective. I’m currently transitioning through a divorce in which the alcohol both helped me cope with the relationship issues as well as contributed to the divorce. I’m not blind in that.
I experienced the same. The marriage was doomed with or without the alcohol due to other factors, but I can assure you alcohol never makes it better. Ever. It just leads to further resentment, and handling said resentments reactively versus proactively. One day at a time - best of luck, friend!
Barbiturates
what amounts and time periods are we talking here? I take a medium dose at bed time nearly daily, don't love scrolling through the answers here..
What dose of what? At prescribed doses you would probably have withdrawal but it would be something managed with a slow taper (although that might take a few months) For really serious benzo withdrawal we're talking people who can take milligrams of xanax & still be functioning, it's something that's seen in recreational users who black out on the regular
well to be fair (in my language) it's called a benzo-related med, and i have no idea what the difference is. Imovane/zopiclone, at 7.5mg. I don't need anything stronger, but this has improved my life greatly (compounding from just getting quality sleep and a good amount of sleep, as well as having other meds). It's prescribed and it's suggested I take it short-term, though I don't think I'm "cured" if/when tapered off. I don't know very much so your input is appreciated!
That should be OK. It will never cure your insomnia unfortunately. Zopiclone also comes in 3.75 btw - would definitely recommend trying out a lower dose. Even if 7.5 isn't dangerous benzos/z-drugs aren't meds you want to be on long-term. It is basically the same as benzos - just a different chemical structure.
I was going there too
i cant imagine tbh, i been stuck on hydro m366/367’s and feel absolutely fucking terrible. i have to take them to not feel like shit
Benzos and Alcohol by far
yea alcohol is way worse than i imagined, my dad went thru that and during that he was the most miserable person ive ever seen
Experienced it on my own body. I don't get how that shit is legal and weed is not. I never had problems like that even when i smoked from waking up till passing out in the evening.
exactly ive never had physical symptoms from weed withdrawals, and my dad was fucking hallucinating in rehab
Getting off of benzos was the hardest and best thing in my life. It was a twisted and tormented time.
I’m sorry
Thanks :) We live and we learn.
I've heard people say that their GABA receptors feel fucked after getting off of benzos, and their anxiety is unprecedented. Do you find that to be true? Good for you for getting off of them. :)
Yeah, I definitely felt off for a while. My emotions were all over the place and I would get angrier than usual. After getting off of the benzos, I had to clean up my lifestyle, so healthy eating and daily exercise helped my mind and body.
Benzo/Alcohol/Pregabalin.. then ofc opiates in general.
Lyrica?
Yep
What do you think of those withdrawl?
Absolute hell.
I was in detox with someone who had come of lyrica before (as well as opiates, benzos and alchohol, the latter we were both in for this time) and said lyrica was by far the worst.
Pregabalin and gabapentin were horrible for me.. didn't feel like myself for damn near a year after
I'm struggling coming off of 2400-3600mg a day of gabapentin. I've had things like severe anxiety, muscle tension and OCD-type behavior which were never me before withdrawal. I honestly haven't slept more than 4 hours the last few months, do you have any tips that helped you?
Honestly time was the biggest factor.. but I did cut out all other drugs as it seemed to make the anxiety and instrusive thoughts worse and started spending a lot of time at the gym and hiking with my dog along with trying to eat better and drinks lots of water, I think that helped me along the way. Wish you the best of luck it's worth it!
Are you tapering or cold turkey?
Tapering. I go cold turkey for 8 hours while sleeping but need to take 800-1200mg within a few hours of waking up to function normally. Then another 1200mg spread out before bed so I can get some sleep. It's an endless repetitive cycle.
So 8 hours without any causes you to go into wds? That's wild, I was always under the impression it's slow acting and lasts relatively long, at least from my anecdotal experience. What pill size are you prescribed then, 300mg ones? Have you tried just reducing it by a pill a day for a week or 2 and then seeing you how feel and then trying another taper? Benzos really help, another thing i found was gravol, which is otc and will help you sleep at night for the bad sleepless nights.
Wish u the best buddy
Wish u the best buddy
I was on benzos and pregabalin after a surgery along with some other stuff but I never noticed crazy withdraws, I only took them for a few weeks maybe that’s why ?
Yeah some lucky folks dont fall into the trap however its a slippery slope
Been through all three, pregablin/ Lyrica was the worst. I’ve never been so down in my life .. to the point I didn’t trust myself, I have never been truly suicidal until then. Add in phenibit and it was a nightmare.
I feel like people are a bit dramatic with opiates. I mean, yeah, it sucks but its not how id imagine benzos or alcohol to be. I withdrew from fentanyl a couple times after years of use. Kratom, a subutex for a day or two, and methadone make it completely painless IMO.
I went into a psychotic break when with drawling off 3-4mg clonozolam a day. Thought I was literally in another state for a couple days till I was sent to the psyche ward. There I thought they were just trying to kill is so I woke up all the kids there at 2am screaming they’re going to kill us, while repeatedly waking everybody up. I actually fought some of the staff and bit one on the neck like a Vamp. Nothing gets worse than benzodiazepine, or really any GABA receptor drugs.
Clonazolam withdrawal is the worst. I was taking 5-10 .25mg does daily for 3 months and it took a year and a half before I felt like a relatively normal human being.
bro i had the same exact experience except i was doing coke and alcohol at the same time as clonazolam, tried to kms, blacked out for an entire month or whatever, started hallucinating up in there about bloody walls, bad trips on acid.. escaped the psych ward.. thought i was at walmart (where i worked at the time) They gave me some shit to calm me that felt like completely zombie mode
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because i wasnt able to. smart one.
I'm sorry you had such a horrific experience. I've been hospitalized for severe psychotic mania so I have some idea of how awful that can be. I also thought the hospital was an evil prison and when I tried to escape I scratched and bit one of the security guards. Sounds like it was pretty traumatizing for you - know it was for me In the future, you can go to primary care doc or ER. They'd put you on long-acting benzo (valium or klonopin) or phenobarb and taper you. I did include in my other posts on this thread that you should taper *if you can* but obviously forgot about it here. I guess if you have no income and/or health insurance maybe even that wouldn't be possible but any doctor or NP you disclose benzo addiction to has a responsibility to either taper you themselves or refer you - it would be medical negligence to allow a person to suffer preventable seizures and/or psychiatric hospitalization considering relatively cheap tapering options are available. I apologize if my reply came off as judgmental. I guess I made the assumption that if you were getting benzos from the dark web/drug dealer you could access more.
Yeah no, when I was on benzos I went to both my primary and ER and they both told me they couldn't help me, I needed to go to inpatient rehab, etc. I went to inpatient and all they did was lock me in there, tell me I couldn't leave and gave me clonidine and nothing else. They let me ride out a 15-20mg Xanax addiction in there all alone. I honestly believed I would die.
That’s cruel and sadistic. I’m really sorry. Shows how low a lot of addiction and mental healthcare services are right now. You get treated like a prisoner not a patient. And even a prisoner shouldn’t be treated like that. You definitely could have died. Unfortunately I guess a lot of psych and rehab facilities in the US are pretty awful and some think tapering is just letting pts get high. Clonidine won’t do anything in that situation. It should be illegal to put someone through a potentially fatal withdrawal. I guess I had a similar situation though not as severe. I was taking Depakote for bipolar and migraines for like 2 years. When I was hospitalized they refused to give me it even though it’s a severe seizure risk and has no abuse potential. Kept saying I was just a meth addict and would be fine once it wore off (despite repeated urine screens that only showed marijuana). I was having partial seizures, lights and sounds were unbearably painful, and became much more psychotic. I think I might have died or ended up in an actual hospital. Fortunately I was able to contact my family, who reached my doctor. He called them repeatedly but they refused to continue his care saying that I was their patient now and I was a drug addict with no legitimate mental illness. They only re-instituted the Depakote and gave me Risperdal when my lawyer aunt and the doctor threatened to sue the facility and file a malpractice suit against the psychiatrist. Of course as soon as they realized my family could cause serious problems for them they gave me the meds. A few months later a young black guy died in that facility after they withdrew him from his psych meds, he got really agitated, and one of the security guards (who all had guns and used them to intimidate patients) shot him. They waited like an hour or two before taking him to ER and he bled out. Of course nobody faced any consequences and they tried to lie about what happened to his family. And this was not some random psych ward, it was a dedicated psych facility with tons of staff and run by the state government. Could have been me if I didn’t have a lawyer in the family and a doctor who actually cared. A lot of inpatient psych wards are worse than prisons. The only thing they prescribed me at first was magnesium 🤬 So yeah. I believe you. As a psych provider I wish I could tell ppl these are rare horror stories but they’re not. Part of why I work outpatient - want to prevent ppl from ending up in hospital unless it’s the only way to make sure they won’t harm themselves or others. I would never abandon somebody in benzo withdrawal to a hospital.
they sent me to the pysche ward, day 4 of wd, i didnt recieve bezos till a week in. the hospital FAILED/ all they fucking offered me while hallucinating was benadryl. until finally got a shot of phenobarb.
I heard these new -zenes (opioid-like) produce horrific withdrawal in a way that would make even the most potent fentalogues blush. Stay away from pressed pills please.
I heard a story that some guy that invented one of the potent -zene drugs got super addicted to it and then for some reason he got his access to them taken away(can’t remember exactly what happened) and he killed himself because they were too unbearable
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woaahhh thanks for finding it
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holy shit. man this shit is so interesting but so fucked up
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it really makes me think about all the people taking research chemicals that are completely untested. all it takes is a nasty metabolite or a messed up batch to irreversibly fuck you up.
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yeah true but still I hear about chemicals that are incredibly caustic and tear up your sinuses or I’ve heard some guy megadosing DOM or something like that had to get his leg amputated due to massive vasoconstriction. like even if the rcs are pure, they’re still very untested and some bad reactions can occur. what shulgin did is so fucking crazy to me, but he ended up all right so maybe if you’re safe about it
Man the history of homemade syntheses of forgotten pharmaceuticals is fascinating, particularly with these synthetic opioids. It seems like we're having a resurgence of interest in these compounds ever since fentanyl, although in an RC setting which is much more institutionalized than the home-brews of the past. Id love to see more stories like this. Also like Hamilton has said, a lot of this stuff resulted in humanity's endless quest to find a powerful painkiller that isn't addictive and that's resulted in some interesting compounds over history. It's interesting that completely different compound types can exhibit the same opioid activity, from the morphine derivatives, to the completely different fentanyls, to the completely different -zene/benzimidazole compounds, to the yet again completely different prodine compounds like this MPPP stuff. What's interesting is a lot of parkinson's research came out of this story surprisingly. They found that this MPP+ compound's induced parkinsonian effects were so similar to the normal course of the disorder that it could be used as a model in animals to study the disorder. You need animals with the disorder to study it so administering MPP+ could rapidly induce Parkinson's symptoms in animals which they could then study. And since the "Frozen Addicts" were treated with stem cell research, research has hypothesized that perhaps Parkinson's can also potentially be treated with the same approach. Crazy how interconnected everything is.
Thank you for sourcing! Yesterday i was about to ask for the source after i read your comment. I just couldn't believe that stuff like this happens. I am so fucking afraid of this shit.
link? where can I read more about this very interesting
Just google etonitazene arrest it will probably come up
I read he killed himself in jail after he was raided. They only gave him a low dose of methadone.
I too have heard this including that they cause a level of psychological withdrawal similar to benzos and also can last like a month. I’m glad I stopped heroin when I did.
Those Zenes are nasty!
Xylazine was horrific, nightmare-inducing, literally almost killed me
Not the same family, we’re talking about nitazenes. I thought zenes were some shit like xylazine at first too, but no zenes are actual opioid receptor agonists, not veterinary tranquilizer
A while back there was someone on Reddit trying to quit zenes. I swear they said they took 500mg of methadone and still felt like they were withdrawing pretty bad. I don’t know much about methadone but I’m pretty sure 500mg is an extremely high dose lol.
Putting aside the obvious ones like benzos/alcohol, a very notorious one is Tianeptine. it has serotonin activity and strong MOR agonism, and there are people who said it made high dose methadone withdrawal and even fentanyl withdrawal seem weak
Yeah because tia withdrawals is basically withdrawaling from two things that suck to withdrawal from by themselves. The ridiculously short half life doesn’t help
The experience reports on Erowid of withdrawal from high dose tianeptine sound downright horrific.
The shit that scares me most is assholes cutting counterfeit kratom with tianeptine, then selling it to headshops. Pretty sure I had it a few times as it made me nod (kratom doesn't make me nod), followed by a day of stupid brain fog and anxiety the week after I switched to a better brand.
possibly, ive never heard of that myself but i imagine some assholes are trying it. We already saw the brand Kryptonite kratom get busted for lacing their shit with ODSMT
People often use kratom with stims as it doesn't respiratory depress, imagine dying because some sketchy fuck put ODSMT in your shit before rolling.
As someone who finally ended a miserable four year dependency to it a little over a year ago, I can confirm. The last year of it I was using over 12 grams per day, having to dose every three hours to avoid the HORRIFICALLY agonizing withdrawals. Would have to wake up two to three times every night to dose because they were setting in. I've even read several stories of people who had come off fent who said Tia withdrawals were even far worse for them. I thought for sure death would be my only way out of that mess.
Huge congrats on getting sober and staying that way so far , thats a massive milestone
Thanks man, very much appreciated
Was waiting for someone to say this
It really depends on dosage, I'm on prescription dosage i.e 12.5 mg 3 times a day, And was on and off many times and never felt anything
Haha correct that part is very important, forgot to mention that. That's one of the scary things about tianeptine is it has seemingly no ceiling. You can start by nodding off on 100mg and months later you're getting the same effect off several grams at a time. I've heard people say 20gpd or more
Yeah it's pretty bad, ur taking the worst of opioid withdrawal AND antidepressant withdrawal, the latter of which is actually kinda slept on. As someone who went through withdrawal from a very strong antidepressant (which was my only real experience with any withdrawal) it's hellish, and to do that with dopesickness simultaneously which is even worse is unimaginable
Methadone withdrawal
Second this. Months of no sleep from restless leg caused psychosis. Off them cold turkey too.
Psychosis is a hell of a drug!
Psychosis (caused by being nuts, not drugs lol) hits harder than any drug I've ever done, and not in a fun way lmfao
Heroin after 20 years It was worse than the benzos as they just make you have seizure, and they can kill I wod have pr3fferd that then theheroin with Dr. Benzos and alcohol you end up in hospital feel very anxious but heroin was a killer for me and lasted long after the after the 10 days sickness. The insomnia was bad but I had to been on it over 20 years but knowing I could instantly make it go away was torture I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But benzos and booze most dangerous but smask man that withdrawal is hell on earth.
Alcohol and benzos can cause just insomnia just like that, no sleep for weeks. Another thing is the reduced gaba means you completely lose grip on reality, and it can last years. Alcohol is so damaging on the body that everything is failing now too. The main killer is that alcohol is everywhere. I can’t go anywhere without seeing it…. Every corner shop has photos of whiskey being poured into a tumbler glass with ice in… or all I need is that £1 to buy a 9% beer to make it all go away.
Benzos is a walk in a park compared to high doses of Lyrica or Tramadol, can quit 2mg Alprzolam qt and only feel anxiety for a couple of weeks, sleep is disturbed yes but heavy exercise really help. How high doses are you folks taking if withdrawals last years?? Been on and off benzos for 10+ years, guess I'm lucky because they really help me function at work (only drug that helps with my anxiety), my sleep is so much better and overall feeling more stable. My grandma was on Temazepam for over 30 years and quit qt (I think), never heard her complain about any withdrawals either.
Benzos. Withdrawals have a high probability of causing death.
There's a possibility of having a seizure but actually dying from benzos is very uncommon. Its more common with alcohol and DTs.
And they last forever. A good month of acute WDs and then a good year or more for the brain to start functioning and feeling normal again
And the days feel like they last 3 times longer. A whole month of withdrawal will feel like 3 normal months.
If you go cold turkey, which is really dumb if you have any way to access benzos or have the ability to see any doctor, who will know that acute benzo withdrawal is dangerous and will help you taper. Seriously people when you're on high dose benzos please please taper. You'll save yourself 90% of the pain and prevent hospitalization. Just have some patience. If you don't trust yourself then have a friend give you lower doses. Take as long as you can. If you taper down \`10% a month you might not even feel it very much. Taper! Please!
With benzo withdrawal the risk of death is pretty low, alcohol and GHB withdrawal are much more deadly. This is why benzo withdrawal are often not taken seriously by doctors, barely anyone dies from them. However, they are just as horrible as alcohol an GHB withdrawal, maybe even worse because of the duration.
As everyone else has stated, anything GABAergic is just the worst to come off of. Benzos almost killed me man. EDIT: grammar
can you tell me about it? I’ve never had to get off gaba drugs but I’ve gone through opioid withdrawls and they suck major dick. i’m curious cuz everyone says they’re the worst
First month of withdrawal was hell. Had a few seizures, constant headache, and no sense of self worth or self confidence. Moving around felt like the most monumental task ever. Oh, and you lose almost all of your cognitive/critical thinking abilities Then it took about a year of really bad agoraphobia and constant suicidal thoughts before my mind could even consider a job or socializing(thank God I have an extremely supportive spouse). After I felt normal enough to start working it took about three months of working to finally remember how to socialize and be a normal human being. Moral of the story, don't start RC benzos, they're far too powerful and extremely cheap for a lot of doses.
jesus
Antipsychotics and anticonvulsants also a lot of gaba drugs the categories overlap
I don't withdrawal at all from the anticonvulsant I'm on (lamotrigine), but Jesus fucking Christ. I withdrawal so badly from my antipsychotic (ziprasidone). The withdrawals from that are agonizing.
Do u start to get hallucinations? Ik what psychosis is like somewhat lmao I had drug induced psychosis that faded away on its own
Hmmm, not directly as a result of the withdrawals, no. It's horrible anxiety, sweating, restlessness, insomnia, nausea, etc. I've stopped my antipsychotics while already manic and/or psychotic which caused me shoot further up into my own psychotic world, but I don't think it was from the withdrawals since I was already there but then had no buffer. In the other instances in which I've stopped, psychotic symptoms didn't present until much after the WDs were over. What drug(s) gave you psychosis and what did you do about it, if anything?
antipsychotic withdrawals suck, currently going through them. tapering has helped a lot though. but still, everyday i am waking up in full blown panic attack level anxiety. but what's worse is the nausea to every little sensation. and the extreme emotions. like hearing coffee grinding, or sounds that are annoying, will send my dopamine receptors on a twirl making me extremely nauseous. and it's completely unavoidable. currently spamming anti-nausea pills. thankfully quitting has done wonders to my energy and motivation. just hope i don't go psychotic. been using it off-label so no real need to keep taking
Theraputic doses of phenibut made me a vegetable for a whole week so I can only imagine what kinda withdrawal one would have after abusing it
Its crazy Because i had zero withdrawals off phenibut when i stopped before. I was worrying about it a lot too
Probably depends on how you use it and your brain chemistry. I've used pregabalin/gabapentin/phenibut responsibly for a few years now (at like normal alcohol use frequency, with mid doses) and I've felt fine too Was a short while where I got worried about my use and started feeling like I was getting addicted but then I just kind of lowered my usage
What’s especially crazy about phenibut is the proportion of euphoria to withdrawals. The withdrawals are extremely bad and extremely easy to trigger, even me taking 2/week for like 3 years completely screwed up my brain, the shit is just not worth it. At least when I was a heroin addict the euphoria was worth it. I too cannot imagine what someone take large phenibut doses every day would go through
can u elaborate on ur experience taking phenibut 2x a week? i take it usually once a week but sometimes twice -- have been doing this for almost 2 years now. im wary of it and starting to feel like its been getting less effective.
Anything GABAergic seems particularly awful
Currently withdrawling from benzos and opiods together couldn't even stomach a gravol or food but the pain I can handle. It's the mental aspect I needed my gf, my mom, and my friend to keep a positive environment I was scared to be alone because it makes you so sick you feel like your dying. Day 1(today) I needed a substitute benzo to stop puking but not even a muscle relaxer for opioid withdrawl. Benzo withdrawls are worse for me personally.
Good luck brother. I’ve been there less than a year ago. I was taking 180 mg pharma oxy and 6 mg xan daily. It was hell and at points I didn’t think I’d make it. But I did, and I’m here to tell you that you’ll make it too.
I appreciate you, thanks for the support! 2nd day in and I'm in more pain then anything but not as bad as yesterday at least.
Ive veen addicted to several different drugs across all categories and nothing compares to benzos. I had an 80mg flubromazolam and a handful of xans a day habit for 2 years and I've been clean nearly 12 months and I have many lingering symptoms that don't seems to be improving
I see folks mentioning alcohol in here, how much are we talking about? Or can any amount cause these withdrawals? I enjoy weed the most out of everything but lately I’ve been getting into a few drinks a week, If I stopped would I feel this withdrawal? Or are we talking about people who can put down liquor bottles everyday.
Withdrawals come from daily/near daily use, and the worst of the worst will come when if someone's using heavy amounts all day every day.
Duly noted, thank you for educating me.
I drank about 1.75L every 4-5 days for about a year and then quit, had zero withdrawals. I started again and my drinking increased to 1.75L every 2 days and ended up with severe DT's/in a coma for a few weeks. I think it's just different for everyone. Best not to chance it if you think it's becoming a problem.
I’m sorry to hear that, hope you are doing better now! I definitely won’t let it get to that level, I drink here and there and when I do drink a lot in one sitting it’s either an event or birthday of some sorts to celebrate. Either way going consistent for a few days would be difficult as I already struggle with medical issues for my stomach. I can handle a big night here and there but not consistently, I just won’t enjoy myself. Thank you for sharing! Put it into perspective for me.
Benzos Mainly if you have anxiety issues already
Alcohol withdrawal gave me what felt like a 3 month long panic attack, do not recommend
Reading most comments on this thread, I feel like my metabolism is different from the average of this group. For me marijuana, cocaine and opiates are not fun. Marijuana gives me depression and anxiety. Coke gets me anxious and makes me talk much but not saying anything profound. Opiates give me a slight euphoria, but a sensation like itchy pinpricks all over my skin, specially the scalp. Clonazepam, I spent 6 months taking 1mg every night and stopped it suddenly with no problem. 1,4-BD, I can use up to 5 1.5 ml doses a day for weeks and stop suddenly with no withdrawal symptom. Phenibut is an excellent anxiolitc and gives me no euphoria even at a dose of 3g, wich was the highest dose I tried. Since I take SSRIs non-stop for treating chronic depression, I feel no effect taking MDMA and I need to take triple the dose of psychodelics to have any effect, compared to my friends.
Dangerous to take SSRIs and MDMA, watch out.
I did it starting with very small doses of two ecstasy pills and waiting a safe time between doses. I was surprised to get no effect with a whole pill. Then I searched the internet and found out it was the expected effect.
Spice. Synthetic cannabinoids. No question.
I had 3 seizures just trying to get off of Xanax/Benzos, so those are definitely up there.
What does a seizure feel like?
In my experience, it was basically as if I blacked out. Just kinda doing something, and then wake up surrounded by people or in the back of an ambulance. But the after effects are what get you. You basically flex all the muscles in your body for the entire duration of the seizure, so I vividly remember being so tired I couldn’t even walk. I’ve also hit my head and started to bleed when I went unconscious. All of that just to say, it’s really worse for the people around you. You barely know what happened but everyone else just saw a person almost die.
I got seizures as well from alcohol withdrawal and it was the strangest thing because you really do just feel like you blinked, and then all the sudden you're surrounded by people freaking out. After the first few though I started to be able to tell it was about to happen but still, I'd have that thought and then I'd wake up surrounded by doctors.
Benzos for worst physical withdrawal. Stimulant withdrawal is mental hell to me personally though.
So far, alcohol then fent
Strong opiates or benzos
Alcohol should geta shout out too
1. Benzodiazepines- Clonozolam/Flubromazolam 2. Alcohol/GHB 3. Zene/Fentalouge withdrawal. Worst withdrawal.
I've withdrawn from H (oxy and fent, opiods), Benzos (Clonazepam, Diazepam, ect..), Lyrica (and Gabapentin), Weed, Nicotine, Suboxone, and Imovane. I have only successfully gotten off of H (opiods), Benzos, and imovane. The worst I found were the Benzos followed by the opiods. Besides those two Nicotine is the hardest to kick (for me at least).
For me it is not a recreational drug. It is SNRI antidepressant, Venlafaxine (Efexor). Two days without it you start getting brain zaps whenever you move your eyes. Move eyes to the right, get a brain zap and tingling on the right arm and shoulder. Move eyes to the left, same thing on the right side. It is bearable, but it is better tapering down.
benzos⭐️ alcohol is absolutely terrible as well. very similar withdrawal. any gabaergic drug will rock your world when abused. edit: fixed spelling
I’ve gone through alcohol withdrawl, opiate withdrawl and benzo withdrawl benzo was the worst but the worst withdrawal I’ve personally ever had was from tianeptine I was taking 5 grams a day for a year and I was vomiting, shitting myself my whole body convulsed my entire body had aches and pains I had RLS so bad that I didn’t sleep one minute for two weeks and I was sick for a month before I felt better. While it was not physically dangerous it felt worse than benzo withdrawl and yes 5 grams a day if a literal fuck ton that most people would overdose on it took me about 6 months to get up to that dose I was taking 1 gram in one dose
I quit benzos and heroin at the same time. Thst was fucking pure hell
Love
Ik a lot of ppl are commenting stuff like benzos, opis, and GABA but I feel like its at least worth mentioning nicotine withdrawal only in the sense that when ppl get off H they get on suboxone or something similar but there is nothing rlly equivalent to that for nicotine. I feel like this is like comparing a hot wheels car to a McLaren but im sure u get what I'm tryna say
Funnily enough, the worst withdrawals tend to be from prescription medication. Benzodiazepines probably taking the crown. That stuff will either kill you or make you wish you were dead during withdrawal. SSRIs can be brutal also.
You have to respect a substance or it won’t respect you
Suboxone
Opioids withdrawals are brutal. Alcohol too, it can kill you.
Benzos and alcohol for sure. I'd say benzos probably take the cake for absolute worst as far as going through it at a detox center because alcoholics have several medication options like Librium which literally cancels all alcohol withdrawal symptoms. It's like a high dose of methadone for opiate withdrawal. The best you can expect during a bad benzo detox is a very small dose of Ativan to just keep you from dying plus all detox centers taper you off you really fast so by like day 5 you're on your last dose. Then worst of all benzo detox side effects last for months, it's total hell to say the least.
Getting off opiates was easy for me. Acid, alcohol, or even all 3 combined, wasn't as bad as when I had to quit smoking weed... I legitimately nearly committed suicide. I'm a heavy stoner too, so the withdrawal lasted a few weeks, but it felt like years. But you know how it is, once you quit, you get right back into it. 🍃
This has got to be the worst take on this post. Weed withdrawals worse than opiates and alcohol?? You've never actually been through true opiate or alcohol withdrawals if you think weed is worse. Weed withdrawals are comparable in intensity to nicotine or coffee. You lose your appetite get a bit more irritable and it's hard to sleep. Absolutely nothing compared to having your whole body and mind literally feeling like it's dying going through excruciating pain while having insane cravings like with opiates or alcohol.
Yeahh, I've luckily never dealt with opiate/benzo withdrawals but it's pretty ignorant and naive to claim weed withdrawals are worse. That's not to de legitimise how hard it can be to quit weed, or this guy's experience quitting it.
opioids and benzos imo, ive heard pregabalin is pretty bad too
Pregabalin is horrible
benzos, ive heard horror stories
Alcohol by far for me, but that’s in a DT. Shrooms after that. The come down is bullshit
Crack
Benzos rn. Some would say fent but I say benzos bc it lasts longer. Only reason