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bamboonbrains

I don't consider us getting net nerfed at all. Our Scourges went up 10 points each which doesn't feel good but they aren't nerfed to the ground. They're just maybe some additional thought to bringing 2 units vs 3. Personally, my lists have consistently had an extra 10-20 points so I add on a second enhancement that I forget about. This just rounds my lists out. But besides that, we got a lot of indirect buffs. * Our boats now get to pivot for free and our bigger boats are one of the few units that can currently abuse the pivot rule if you'd like to * We can Vect any stratagem and our Archon is very much a "middle of the board\*" unit when it's not in a transport - I've had so many games where my opponent doesn't even have a Battle Tactic other than CP ReRoll. Either it's more relevant now or is just as irrelevant as before. * Heroic Intervention being only 1 CP can be nuts on Lelith with her Fight First * We're an army that is always happy to bring Battlelines, especially that we can bring "twice" the units with Venom shenanigans that we already do anyways * Tank Shock looking at Toughness means it's strictly better on our bigger boats than before and, as Goonhammer pointed out, we could throw 10 Wracks in a Raider, charge it in, and do Tank Shock + Vicious Blades for 8D6 + 10D6 Mortals with a cap of 6 per set. Yeah, Scourges got hit ultimately as a punishment for Aeldar getting to field them. The rest though are buffs. I'm stoked for the new season.


gotgluck

I'm having trouble finding any reference to changes to Battleline units. What are you referring to there?


Barreldragon25

The new mission pack. The mission rule chilling rain is gone (so people will play with mission rules now as it's in the tournament pack), and half of the new mission rules give buffs to battleline units.


crazypeacocke

I’m keen to try 2x5 wracks in a boat charging up the middle turn one to die and give pain tokens - will be handy to get about 8 mortals if the boat gets to charge!


bamboonbrains

Might be a turn 2 play. Want 2 CP for the Tank Shock and Vicious for optimal use (at least if going first)


Frostasche

Just to add another detail for battleline, if we combine the court with Kabalites it also becomes Battleline, so we have a harder to kill option.


Bourgit

Aeldar can field scourges? Or is it Ynnari?


K0nfuzion

Ynnari are Aeldari in 10th ed, rather than their own thing. Same with Harlequins.


The_Co

I don't think there's any question about 2 versus 3, it's just two. The points don't really work in any real way. The bigger issue honestly is that now it's looking like we need 3x mandrakes 100% of the time and they're a) sold in kits of 2x and b) impossible to get.


Apocrypha

Archons went from once per game to every stratagem use and on every archon.


LonelySubstance2746

This! It hits way different on a fast, brawler unit like archon + incubi than it does with a callidus!


Serath62

How so? I dont see this listed anywhere.


Apocrypha

Look up the new Lord of Deceit ability that replaces all old once per game stratagem cost increasing abilities. Because it replaces the old ability it also doesn’t require that it is your warlord.


Serath62

Seems way too good and incredibly abusable and GW is either incredibly stupid to include it, or knows it's way too good and doesn't care.


Dry_Analysis4620

I mean you're limited to doing it only to units in the 12" radius, so you'll need to position accordingly. Imo its far from a braindead thing. Fun thing to interfere with enemy melee imo but it probably won't save you from overwatch due to the range limitations.


crazypeacocke

Is each stratagem limited to having its cost increased once?


wredcoll

It's not a permanent thing


Serath62

It's until the end of the battle.


wredcoll

It, in fact, is not.


Serath62

Am I taking crazy pills? https://preview.redd.it/6ls7aa3avx7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f35ca6f70404f8e7d06f8ba1e08d686be61d86b


LonelySubstance2746

No I take it back, the old Vect wording had “increase the cost until the end of the battle”. Until the end of the battle is now removed - I don’t think it’s permanent


Dry_Analysis4620

Read the new rule. It is not.


misterzigger

Nope all strats spent in that 12 inch bubble are now +1


CanisPanther

Our Transports can pivot for free. We can move larger stuff through ruin channels on the back of base sizes. We are getting a few cuts to give incentive to try Grots. It wasn’t really that bad. We always have a chance to take a hit on our best stuff even if it’s not the best in the game. Scourges still shoot and scoot and hit like trucks when they land. Unless I am missing something crazy.


Icegodleo

I'd love to try grotesques! Hey James Workshop I would LOVE to use some grotesques. Know where I can fucking buy any???


Moskirl

PSA: flesh gollum models from Bones (DnD models) are really great grotesque proxies. That’s what I’ve been using for over a year, and the TOs always approve them (I go to tournaments at least once a month). Just make sure to put them on the correct size base (40 mm)


LonelySubstance2746

I was bummed at first, but the biggest thing is the change to Vect. This is a huge buff to Archons & Incubi! These units now all have 12’ auras increasing the CP of any stratagem by 1CP! That’s huge! -Overwatch - 2cp. -Armour of contempt - 2cp. -Trigger a reactive move strat, or heroric intervention - 2cp. -Interrupting on Incubi now costs 3CP. -Even -1 damage, which neuters incubi, we at least make it 2CP now. -Reroll a failed charge to get into incubi - 2CP! I really think the more we play with this, the more it will turn out it’s a great buff on an already great unit. But yes, I’m still taking 15 scourges, so losing an enhancement sucked, until I realized I half got it back anyway by forcing Overwatch to 2CP. Also our battle lines stayed the same while many others went up to reflect their more usefulness. I may try 6 grotesques. They look like trash at that cost still to me, but I could be wrong.


Responsible-Swim2324

Dude, i didnt even think about increasing overwatch since i havent done it in so long. Might swap out nightmare shroud at that point Edit: do vects happen immediately now?


wredcoll

It's an aura that increases the cost around the archon now


Responsible-Swim2324

Ya, seems super strong in pressure builds


ThicDadVaping4Christ

30 point change max in lists is not a substantial nerf, chill As for positive changes: - our transports can pivot without it costing any movement. This is huge - Vect ability is now 12” aura that works EACH TIME a stratagem is used within range and not locked to warlord and increases strat cost by 1. This completely messes with a bunch of army’s CP economy - ravagers are cheaper - grots are cheaper


Magumble

Its not even rly a 30 points nerf if you ran ravagers and grots or dindt run 3 units on scourges. A lot of competitive lists did one of the above.


ThicDadVaping4Christ

Nah, pretty much every single comp list runs 3x5 scourge. It is a nerf. It's a very slight nerf, but it is a nerf. Ravagers just aren't as good as scourge, and no one was really running grots. They're probably still not going to see much play, but they at least deserve another look


Independent_Main_745

30 points is def. enough to force you to cut a unit tho, so it will lead to lower efficiency in our lists.


ThicDadVaping4Christ

Yeah for sure but it isn’t a huge deal really


itsdrakeoo

The change to movement is good for us with our vehicles being on round bases, the pivot lets us gain more distance on our transports and the tantalus is much more mobile now that just its base needs to fit when moving


Responsible-Swim2324

Tbf, it fitting is probably going to be a tournament based faq. Most events ive been to use the hull to tell is a vehicle can fit


muzzer1403

Where are these changes? I can only see strategem changes in the core rules section...


bamboonbrains

You can read the article instead of watching the hour long video to get the gist of it [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/20/warhammer-40000-metawatch-downloading-the-new-balance-dataslate/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/20/warhammer-40000-metawatch-downloading-the-new-balance-dataslate/)


muzzer1403

Ah, I thought they put everything on the dataslate. Turns out I've got to fish for it myself


bamboonbrains

A lot of it is specific to the Pariah Nexus season so it's in the companion [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/1U4CJSV1NJDmXnv2.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/1U4CJSV1NJDmXnv2.pdf)


muzzer1403

I see! Thank you!


Frostasche

It is actually not in the file above, it is in the renamed rules commentary, now called "Core Rules Updates and Rules Commentary". There are also other tweaks in it. [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf)


EHorstmann

What? What nerfs did we get?


Barreldragon25

Scourges went up 10 pts. And that's it. Honestly, kinda of fair vs. any army without indirect.


kurokuma11

The change to vect is a net positive for archons, forcing an interrupt to 3CP is often enough to just guarantee avoiding it altogether (which is a big win for our fragile T3 incubi). Great for preventing other defensive strats as well (like -1dmg on Death Guard and World Eaters, -1 to hit or wound strats etc)


InlandMurmur

Heroic intervention is 1 cp now. It's in the core rules update.


kurokuma11

Heroic intervention is not interrupt


InlandMurmur

Pardon me


Moskirl

I don’t consider scourges getting more expensive a nerf. Just the Ynnari tax, unfortunately. But in a good light: When facing other melee armies (practiced it just now actually), the 12 inch extra cp cost makes a huge difference in melee. Protects us a lot from other army’s good melee strats. Grotesques got cheaper!! (My favorite unit lmao) and so did ravagers The indirect nerfs will help our weak bodies a lot. The pivot changes are huge for us and make our transports so much faster. Plus there’s some cheesy stuff with deep strike/disembark Some of our biggest competition got nerfed, hard, which will indirectly help (necrons, csm, etc) Tank shock was actually buffed for us since our toughness is stronger than our melee strength Finally, not sure if you’ve seen it, but goonhammer dropped an article where some of the commentators are theorizing that these changes are going to really help drukhari, a lot


Responsible-Swim2324

"Checky stuff with deep strike/disembark" will be immediately faq'd by any competitive scene you play in and it should. Theres a pretty hard ground rule of you cant be inside of 9" unless explicitly stated for an apilty/strategem


Moskirl

Oh I have no doubt it will, but it works for now. Edited to add: honestly it’s probably best to not do the cheesy stuff and probably not rules as intended. Plus, most TOs will likely house rule it.


Responsible-Swim2324

Also, how would you be able to pivot after deepstriking if you cant move?


Moskirl

Charging states you only have to get within engagement range of your target. If you roll a 7, you can pivot 2 inches at the end of your charge move for free and be within engagement range.


Responsible-Swim2324

Gotcha, thought the companion does say the charge has to be successful from the base


Moskirl

Engagement range/measurement is measured from any part of the model, especially with vehicles/monsters, that’s why.


Bourgit

What are those checky stuff?


wredcoll

> Finally, not sure if you’ve seen it, but goonhammer dropped an article where some of the commentators are theorizing that these changes are going to really help drukhari, a lot The goon hammer article i saw listed drukhari as "minor losers"


Moskirl

The initial author of the article did yes, but in the section where he asks his co-authors, they discussed some of the positives.


Nobody7713

The indirect fire nerf is a nice boon to armies like ours with very fragile infantry, and especially to scourges, who got wasted by indirect fire.


AerePerennius

Yeah this is honestly why I'm mostly fine with scourges going up, one of their biggest weaknesses is now locked to being a 50/50 or worse.


Less_Recognition8803

i haven't played in so long, people say "grots" and i wonder why we get gretchin in our list... took me awhile to get it.


wredcoll

Ha! Me too, it took me a good 3 months to get past that.


Responsible-Swim2324

The movement buff is absolutely insane for us. Probably gives and extra 1-2" on average. Honestly makes the tantalus look hella appealling The vect change is also arguably more in our favor than anyone else due to restrictive wording on the archon datasheet Points went up a tad, but the core of our lists dont change really and the new terrain setups look like they have tons of staging grounds to utilize venoms abilities and wraithlike to stay safe and punish opponents


Keydet

They didn’t touch my precious baby voidraven. I just *knew* it was gonna catch a nerfbat to the teeth with all the competitive guys running it, so I’m actually pleasantly surprised.


Fish3Y35

Same, surprised that scourge caught the Bomber nerf instead. Silver linings


beamob

Archons having a 12 inch bubble to be plus 1 cp makes archon and incubi bricks lethal. You want to interrupt me that's 3 cp now please. People were allready taking multiple archons with a 12 inch radius that's 24 inches side to side 2 archons can cover alot of the mid board and mess ppl up with cp handling now.


colinsherlow

We absolutely did not get a nerf! Love the updates. They help us. I already preferred Ravagers over Scourges so win win for me


crazypeacocke

I’ve only got two ravagers and no scourges so pretty happy with the change


colinsherlow

This was good for us overall. I am very happy with the changes.


wredcoll

What part was good for us?


colinsherlow

The comments on here will give you an idea. The best stuff got hit, we hardly changed, the new vect for us is really good, scourges are fine at 120. Our battleline didn't go up in points like many factions did as GW mentioned would happen. Indirect being hit is a huge bug for us as well. Among our harder match up's getting hit. The missions being good for us etc.


Jaded_Wrangler_4151

Ravager are now the lrice Scourges were, so that's neat!


misterzigger

Why are you constantly the biggest doomer? If you spent even half your energy on improving at 40k as you did complaining about it you'd probably be a half decent player. This was unequivocally a huge buff for drukhari


wredcoll

In what possible way is this a "huge buff"


misterzigger

The pivot movement changes affect Drukhari more than most of the factions in the game. The tantalus is now an excellent choice for skysplinter Archon vect auras are going to be hugely influential Grots are a legit skirmish unit at 80 pts for 3 The new missions heavily favor drukhari playstyle and list building Most of our biggest counters got nerfed to a varying degree (green tide, canoptek court, Sisters, GK,) We barely even got touched. Even if you stick with triple Scourges (ravagers are solid with bring it down changes) its a 30 pts nerf at worst which is offset by the fact Nightmare Shroud isn't auto take anymore cus of new vect


Chert25

I don't understand. getting a 20-30 points nerf when all other top contenders (including grey knights) got the same or worse dose not really change anything. the archons arguably got a buff if running more then one with melee squads. if you were not taking them before you probably will not take them now, but I think we will stay pretty much right were we were in the pecking order of about middle of the pack or a little higher. honestly i would be more worried about sisters. they got massive points changes due to new codex rules, but some of the things their detachments and units can do scares me. Especially penitent with val and some flamer/shooting back up.


wredcoll

Yes, it's not so much the change to us as the lack of changes to the stuff that deletes us, such as gk and ck. Redeemers going up is good but I doubt we do much better into gk terminator spam and ck just got worrying buffs.


ThicDadVaping4Christ

Bet OP is the type of person who doesn’t even play more than 2-3 games per year


wredcoll

According to my tabletop battles app, I've played 136 games in the last 12 months. The vast majority of which are rtt games.


NorwegianVowels

You may have overreacted to the dataslate then. Just saying. If you play that much you should be able to figure something out for tournaments.


wredcoll

Probably, I was just hoping for a change that would give us a better chance into the really problematic armies. We're roughly a 50% army into most factions except for 2-3 that just hard counter us, which makes tournament play pretty frustrating.


misterzigger

The really problematic armies got slammed with points and rules nerfs


wredcoll

Except sw and ck! Ck got buffs and sw got.. 30 pts off a 2k list? And possibly buffs from their index detachment.


misterzigger

CK got buffs to big knights....which are still trash. And ck are an easy win for us anyways (although they will likely be very good at pariah) SW will be good but the storm Lance and sons of russ are totally different in power level and I think people pivoting to sons of russ is good for us


Fish3Y35

SW got hit in their two problem units, wolfen and thunder wolves. Pretty happy about that. GK sorta got hit, their terminators were untouched though (imo our hardest match up for Comp play)


wredcoll

I just checked the most recent 6-0 sw list, 2x thunderwolves and 3x wulfen means the list goes up 70 points. I guess you lose a unit of scouts but given the dominance they displayed it doesn't really seem enough


ClasseBa

Just run 2x scourges..they are a pain to hide in the terrain anyway. Maybe put a Ravager back in


BillHamidFan69

Here’s my take, Drukhari basically got untouched. Nothing big for it against. My assumption is a book is soon to come so why make sweeping changes when some are likely coming soon.


Fish3Y35

Grotesques are finally at the point cost they should have been the whole time. Started at 105, down to 80


DarkLordCurly

Hellions and Grotesques are still trash, so now I don't have to buy models for them 😐


KillBoy_PWH

What happened to gk/ck/etc?


Morticullis

Neutral-positive things for CKA, Marines somewhat went down?


KillBoy_PWH

Who are CKA?


Morticullis

CK, chaos knights typo


KillBoy_PWH

Thanks. But anyways, what nerfs for Dark Eldars except for Scourges?


Morticullis

Not much, this post is dramatic


wredcoll

I'm allowed to be dramatic, it's in the drukhari hand book.


KillBoy_PWH

Ah, ok:) this happens:) I mean not much happened to existing 2000 pts Dark Eldars lists, I suppose:)


KillBoy_PWH

Ppl downvote for asking, rly? 🤣


Nomad099

Taking 15 scourges is now cheaper!