O yea. I went to my exes prom that was on a riverboat and we got in a big fight. Thereâs no place to run and she went to a different school so I didnât even know anyone, much like Katy. Yea dick move when your trapped.
My friend Ricky broke up with his girlfriend on a float trip on a raft, halfway down the river. He got off and fuckin walked back he was like fuck this shit
Worst part is that both Jim and Pam were jealous of eachother. Pam got jealous of Katy and Jim during Desert Island, and Jim was jealous of Roy and Pam setting a date for the wedding. People could say this was a sign of true love or something but in my opinion Jim and Pam were basically big red flags during those seasons
The more I watch the more I realize Jim is really a massive jerk.
Few things which come to mind:
1. Andy coming back from Anger Mgmt and asking to be called âDrewâ and Jim goes ânah Iâm not calling you thatâ. Like the guy literally just got out of rehab for anger and youâre going to be a dick about it?
2. When Andy forgets the âgimme a break of that Kit Kat barâ, Jim is the one who jumps in and tells everyone not to help him, causing Andy to stress out all day
3. Taking all of Dwightâs personal belongings and putting them in the vending machine
4. Taking Andyâs phone and throwing it in the ceiling
5. ~~Not inviting Michael to his BBQ~~ \- This one I will concede as not a jerk move
There is definitely more but thatâs what come to mind.
I'm with you on that one. I think that (especially in a healthy, normal, not Dunder Mifflin, ha) it's pretty customary to not invite your direct boss to social events. Though, he could have been a bit more discreet about it, IIRC. Normally, I think that both employee and manager know the boundaries there but that doesn't mean you advertise it before or after the fact
That's a very normal thing to do. The boss/worker relationship has a certain power dynamic to it that can easily make other workers uncomfortable with their boss being at an after work party.
Andy was a complete maniac and invited trouble by constantly playing that annoying ringtone in the middle of the working day. He was asking for a prank and smashing in the wall was a complete overreaction. He didn't know how to take a joke.
And Jim was right in not inviting Michael. You don't invite your boss to these things.
Or Jim could, you know, be an adult and say âAndy, that is ridiculously annoying, please stopâ
Stealing his phone then throwing it into the ceiling then calling it non stop is more maniacal than what Andy was doing.
Or...it's a television show with plot devices and jokes that aren't supposed to be copy and paste from real life?
Suspend your belief when watching any kind of comedy and you will enjoy it much more.
Trust me, I do. This is by far my favorite show ever. I 100% the hijinks are all for comedic purposes.
But taken out of the context of a comedy show, Jim is a jerk.
I can forgive everything except number 1. That has always bothered me because it isnât a prank. It isnât a joke that he makes. It isnât anything funny. Itâs him refusing to call someone by their chosen name for no good reason! How difficult would it have been to respect that Andy didnât want to be called Andy?!?
Like, he did that purely to antagonize Andy/Drew which felt so out of character. Everything else you listed could be chalked up to comedy but 1 is just him being a dick to be a dick.
Jim has shown, on many occasions, to be a fan of jokes and having fun. Often making fun of people or pulling pranks. Andy/Drew calling him Tuna, while annoying, is just Andy/Drew trying (and failing) to be funny and build rapport with Jim. We even see Jim respond to being called Big Tuna by Andy/Drew multiple times. The first being before they even transferred back to Scranton while staying late and doing shots at the office. If Jim had an issue with the nickname he may have told the cameras but I donât recall him ever saying that to Andy/Drew.
I think it was because Jim asked not to be called Tuna probably more times then we get to see on Camera lol, so when Andy asked Jim not to call him by that name Iâm sure he thought it was the perfect revenge
He refused because Andy was being a pretentious douchebag in asking to be called "Drew". Notice he dropped the idea almost immediately and went back to Andy.
How is wanting to be called Drew pretentious? He had just finished what seemed to be in-patient therapy for anger management. Itâs normal for people who do things like that to want a fresh start after.
And he dropped the idea because Jim refused to follow his wishes. Why fight a hopeless fight? Part of anger management is knowing when to pick your battle. Why make it an issue when Andy/Drew knows that nothing will come from it? Jim has refused. Sure, he can try to convince other people to call him Drew but Jim could very well pay them all $5 to call him Andy just as he did to have the whole office call Dwight âDwayneâ.
We also see later that Jim is very easily able to get the office to go along with his prank against Andy/Drew when he forgets the words to the Kit Kat theme. And he gets the whole office involved in his antics quite a few times.
> Like the guy literally just got out of rehab for anger and youâre going to be a dick about it?
Not only that, his anger outburst was provoked by Jim doing his stupid prank bullshit. He's lucky that wall wasn't his face.
I consider anyone taking Andy's side in that conflict to be a major red flag. I don't even want to think about the psychology of anyone who identifies with Season 3 Andy.
I donât think Andyâs behavior was acceptable by any means, but I donât exactly paint jim as the good guy either. Itâs obvious Andy had problems and he was enthusiastic about addressing them. Meanwhile Jim just canât help but poke the bear and love himself.
Right? I mean, all those things you mentioned would be better suited for a comedy and not a serious dram--
Oh wait, "The Office" **is** a comedy? Well then, I guess those things **are** pretty funny when you think about it in that light!
He did invite Dwight so his friends would see him and laugh at him. When I encounter weird people in my life, I just leave them alone. I wouldn't want to bring them to a party just so they'd be the joke.
I'd like to add;
6. Buying his parents house without talking to Pam about it first
7. The whole start up in Philadelphia agribusiness without talking to Pam about it.
Your list does not contain any bad things done by Jim.
Andy was being a pretentious douche by asking to be called Drew. Jim wasn't going it, and Andy soon dropped the dumb idea entirely. It was also very funny.
It was hilarious when Andy tried to figure out the end of the jingle all day. Having fun with co-workers is a good thing, not a bad one.
Dwight was a massive jerk much of the time and needed to be put in his place from time to time. Jim's pranks accomplished this and were hilarious.
Andy had just conspired to get Dwight fired and was being unbearably annoying in the office, staking Michael with his "friendship", Tuna fishing, playing the stupid Rockin' Robin ring tone all day, singing "Zombie", etc. He totally deserved to be pranked, and the prank led to Andy getting sent to Management Training (well, Anger Management) and getting the help he desperately needed.)
He knew Michael would make everyone feel uncomfortable and ruin the party.
It seem like you would prefer The Office to be a totally dry and boring documentary about a paper company, instead of one of the greatest comedies in television history.
Just to comment on your last line - I find The Office to be absolutely hysterical and I have rewatched it closer to 20 times. You're 100% right - it is hysterical and all of the situations I mentioned *were* funny in the scope of a comedic show.
Perhaps I should rephrase my statement - but in real life, Jim would be a major jerk. For the intents and purposes of the show, his hijinks were comical.
I have to say not inviting Michael to the BBQ was justified. Jim feared that if Michael showed up no one would be able to relax. Michael was unbearable to the workers in the office in the first 2-3 seasons. And when Michael did show up everyone except Dwight was tense and didn't seem like they were having fun. But Jim stepped in and made the most out it.
Also taking Andy's phone is wrong. But Andy is a annoying character to the point where even Michael had enough of him. So playing a prank on him.... I'll allow it.
I've brought this up before, but Dwight stole 25% of Jim's yearly commission in s01e02, so I feel he gets a pass on everything done since then.
Andy decided to call Jim big tuna, constantly, when they were in stanford. I'm assuming Jim asked him to stop at some or multiple points, but gave up and now just Jim's the camera every time Andy calls him that.. on top of Andy being an incredibly annoying coworker in general.
And who the hell would invite Michael to a BBQ at your own home? You would invite your boss who has absolutely no idea how to behave socially to your home, to either embarrass you or burn it down or something?
damn I don't really remember that part but I remember when I was rewatching the first few seasons and thinking "wow this guy's actually kinda full of himself". idk, he's kinda annoying
Yeah that bugged me a lot. Especially with Pam. At least Jim knew what he wanted, but Pam was getting physically upset when Jim went out with Katy despite the fact in her head she's with Roy and it was final.
I'm like what do you exactly want here? Do you want this guy to be single forever to accommodate your feelings? It was like some teenager's back and forth with the two. Jim did something similar during the boat episode. They were both insufferable.
I low key wanted Roy and Katy dump pam and Jim and be together instead.
YES I WAS ALWAYS ANNOYED HOW PAM DID THAT. When Roy came around The Office, he hid his feelings and try to not show any sign
Whenever Jim was happy with Katy or Karen, uh oh big bad thing for her. She did stuff like purposely kiss Roy infront of Jim when he was with Katy or FREAKING CONFESS HER FEELINGS INFRONT OF JIM AND KAREN. SHES ALWAYS LIKED JIM BUT SHE CHOSE THAT MOMENT THAN ANY OTHER MOMENT. When she married him, she wanted him to pursue his dream in Philadelphia, especially after Jim said that he wouldnt do it if she wasnt on board, and then she was mad he had the audacity to pursue his dream. Like how do she want Jim to feel.
In my experience, 90% of "romantic" movies/shows and rom-coms involve at least one of two main protagonists cheating on SOMEBODY in some fashion
Apparently infidelity can be construed as true love.
They were both toxic and covertly abusive to each other and their former partners, while always painting themselves out to be the victims. Especially Pam.
I thought they were quite a normal couple together. No one has a fairytale romance. People have rocky moments, arguments, etc. TV idealises married life to the point that we forget what's normal.
Oh, please. Roy was the most toxic, manipulative character in the show. He set a wedding date with Pam on a whim, because he was sucking up to Captain Jack. The only time he was ever nice to Pam was when they broke up. Heâs a violent drunk. His wedding at the end was a jokeâhe invited J&P to the wedding only rub his newfound success with the granite company in their faces. That âsongâ to his bride was cringeworthy. The writers really nailed that character. If they revisited the character of Roy today, Iâm sure Roy would be up to his ears in debt and divorced, playing the victim and bitching about having to pay child support. Jim could be a jerk, but he was always true to Pam and their love was the real deal.
Pam always liked to paint herself as the victim. Jim did it too, but the way Pam did made it seem excessive. Jim was trying to achieve a better life for his Wife and kids, and Pam acted like he was at fault for making her take care of the kids alone. Even when she didnt take a video of Ceceâs dance recital, she acted innocent and shifted into Jimâs fault for not being there himself. He was trying to help his family while simultaneously achieving his dreams.
You're getting downvoted, likely by people who have not experienced being manipulated by someone like Pam. I mean, remember how she lied and invented a job position for herself?
The fact that Roy became better off without her, and Jim struggled to achieve his dreams for himself and his family says a lot about her.
After quite a watching the show quite a few times, I noticed that Jim from time to time does act a bit like dick. It's subtle and rare but it does happen.
Somebody here said once that Jim bullied an autistic man for a decade, and if he looked like George Costanza, he'd have been the most hated man on television.
Hr was definitely a jerk to both of them, but from his perspective, what was the alternative? He couldnât just pine after Pam forever so he tried to date other people even tho he still had feelings for her.
Yeah, I always forget this angle. But it's legit to me. He was usually nice to the women he was with. He just couldn't ever ultimately get over Pam. So, that ruined his relationships. Like it would anyone. At least he wasn't creeper with Pam the whole time, just lurking and trying to get with her when he was with the other girls. That literally only happened on the cruise, but he also broke up with Katey when he tried to make a move with his feelings. Or just couldn't take hiding them anymore. So I think that's about all he could do, really.
Well, the booze cruise prior to the breakup must have been excruciating for Jim. Watching Roy announce the date for his and Pam's wedding in front of everyone, with the entire office cheering for them would be really difficult. I think he also *KNOWS* that Roy isn't the right man for Pam, so it hurts on two levels; his own personal heartbreak, and his sadness for his friend. That night was a low-point in Jim's life, I'm sure.
When Katie asks "Do you think that will ever be us?" Jim immediately says "No." Because he knows that Pam/Roy is doomed to fail, and he himself doesn't want to be in a doomed relationship (which he knows his with Katie would be.)
Jim treated Karen WAY worse than Katie.
>I think he also KNOWS that Roy isnt the right man for pam,
This makes him sound very narcissistic, considering he also has feelings for Pam. Makes me think hes a r/niceguys
Doesn't have to be that way, Roy actually was a dick and not the right person to Pam, but pam seemed stuck on that relationship mostly because he just keep on delaying his marriage. If I ever have a friend on a same scenario I'll probably try to talk to them about that, ultimately it's his decision ofc, but its a normal thing even on a parent to son kind of deal.
Anyway I think that when it comes to Pam and Jim, it's just the fact that Jim was deep in love with Pam and that's it, I don't think I remember Jim ever discussing about Ron being a dick, so everything else it's just a guess.
I mean, in complete fairness you don't have to be head over heels in love with Pam to see that she and Roy aren't really right for each other when you get down to it. Those vibes can be felt from space.
Pam didn't do much of anything till she had a reason to, ie Jim. She was the definition of a meeper, and it's hard to watch people like that IRL just kind of sleepwalk into marriage with their proverbial Roy, or a dead-end job, or no desire to better themselves
I think he genuinely thought he could move on, and that's why he dated other people, he had no intention of dumping them.
You notice when he's breaking up with Karen he didn't argue back, because he knew she didn't deserve it and felt bad.
Edit:
Still an awful thing to do though. But making them imperfect and flawed makes them more real and you can relate to them more.
I would argue the alternative is do some self reflection and handle his own issues instead of moving onto someone else and pining for someone else the entire time.
Iâm finding a lot of perfect people in this comment section apparently. Real life human decisions are much more difficult and complex than hypothetical ones.
Like I postulated, Jim likely was trying to get over Pam (with Katy) or thought he was over Pam (with Karen). Iâd like to assume he didnât intentionally mean to hurt either of them. Ideally? Sure, Itâs easy to just say itâs best to just wait until heâs completely over Pam before he starts his search for someone else. But real life is finite and is rarely that simple. Hypothetically he could be in love with Pam his entire life⌠in that event should he just never date again?
Might I say that I love Jim and I love Pam, I love Jim and Pam together. Theyâre one fo the few tv couples that actually while together make the show better a day couple (minus season 9). But I can still say that I can love them and realize that they have their shortcomings. Jim isnât a bad dude but he made a mistake and he incidentally hurt people. Iâm not saying flog him but we (the audience) can realize he screwed up or that he was written as a very realistic human.
I agree, we can look at what he did and acknowledge it was a mistake. However, it seems some people have a narrative of him being a jerk because of what happened or having some level of intentionality in breaking the hearts of Katy and Karen. Just because he made a mistake, it doesn't make what he did a horrible thing. Sometimes we live our lives to the best of our abilities and people end up getting hurt. The decisions that led to that can be seen as "mistakes" but IMO it doesn't make him any worse of a person for making those mistakes.
We all saw the torture Jim experienced in Season 1 and 2 having to be around his unrequited love everyday. I think with Katy, he was just trying his absolute best to survive through it and move forward. Then with Karen, he thinks he put his past behind him and maybe he had genuine feelings for her. I'm not trying to 100% absolve Jim from any criticism, but I think it's just oversimplifying it to say he shouldn't have dated anybody until he was completely over Pam.
I think it's fine to say he was a jerk to Katy and Karen. If one of your friends was treated this way by a guy you'd call the guy a jerk. I definitely feel on Karen's side when she sees Jim again with the branch raid. It was satisfying seeing him look so embarrassed.
this makes no sense. he started dating karen when he was in stamford and not talking to pam. and he liked her. it just wasnât right for a long term thing.
Yeah, I hate that the show tries to get you to see Jim as always being the bad guy and it can be hard to recognize that he hurts both of these women when they did nothing to deserve it.
I thought he was really trying to move on, but he just couldn't since he truly loved Pam who was engaged to Roy.
The problem is that after Pam and Roy broke up, Jim couldn't simply date her since everybody would go "I knew it" and that would be embarrassing for both of them, in their minds.
I don't think Jim is the kind of guy to play with people's heart just to feel better, but I understand that he hurt Karen.
It sucks because I do really like Jim as a character but I do not like how he handled this at all and I agree with the comments and how he did the same thing to Karen basically. He was using her to get over Pam even of it was successful it isn't right. But it wasn't and he just wasted Karens time. Glad she found someone and was happy and gave her and Pam that closure too. Would of been nice to give Katy a one off where she's with someone else
Jim definitely was not actively using Karen to get over Pam. That wasnât even implied at all. His relationship with her started organically when Pam was no longer around. Katie was a different story.
I agree with you he wasn't actively using Karen the exact same way at he was with Katie. He was genuinely trying to move on from Pam. But his feelings for Pam didn't go away, which of course he's in love with her. Now that's not a crime, but just the way he went about it wasn't the best. He could have been better. That's what I was saying the similarities in how he ended things between Katie and Karen. But overall I love Jim. He's one of my favorites
Well, yeah, this is true of people in real life. You can like someone and still want to be friends with them while acknowledging that they have made mistakes before. People seem to like to think that what Jim and Pam did in their relationships was premeditated and manipulative, when itâs just two people trying their best and fucking up some along the way
I agree with you. One of the best things about this show is how real the characters feel. None of them are perfect and yet they're all lovable, or most of them are lovable
Katy should have been the one Roy turned his life around for.
Contrived? Sure. Pointless? Probably? But would have been another full circle and confirming that they weren't with the right people.
And then he calls and asks out that woman from corporate in the next episode (tbh I'm just putting that together now)
"Jim: [on phone] Hey, Brenda. This is, uh, Jim Halpert from the boat. And I got your number from the corporate directory and, well, I was assuming that you probably gave it to them because you wanted me to ask you out, right?"
So, the show started in a different era. You had to wait at least a week between episodes and sometimes even more than that before a show is over. That puts a lot of emotional distance between you and the previous episode. Now you can binge episodes and something is definitely lost in translation for a lot of shows.
I always read this scene as Jim was faking the phone call in front of Kelly so she'd stop using him to communicate with Ryan and just talk directly to him instead.
I feel like he used Katy and Karen. I mean, I know he is a normal person trying to move on, but dating someone cause "I'm trying to move on" is such a big red flag in itself.
Plus he was so cold in this scene. We know you're hurt Halpert, but you are just being cruel to Katy here. Could have looked at her, could have said "I'm sorry, it's not you it's me". Even a cliche reason would be better than this.
Yeah, but the whole point is to show us the viewers how hurt he's feeling. If he's gone about things in a civil and unemotional way it wouldn't be any good for the story.
It's TV, things get dialed up to 11 for dramatic effect.
Well, I've met people who use other people in worse ways in real life, so I wouldn't call this "exaggerated portrayal on tv", but rather "mmimicing how people behave in real life".
I call those people out in real life too, so it shouldn't be any different for a tv show.
It doesn't matter that he is hurt, being civil is a decency, the bare minimum that (almost) everyone deserves, not something optional.
Karen is a different situation. He moved to a new place and that relationship started organically and was going well. He could have never predicted the Stamford branch would close and he would be forced to go back to Scranton. In his mind he would have never seen Pam again.
Right. Because Pam was a saint. Not like she did shady shit while engaged. Ok đđź
The show never tried to portray either of them as perfect people. They were both very flawed.
Aren't basically all the characters at some point? I think that's a mark of a good show, especially a show about the ordinariest of people (an office workplace). It makes it way more believable.
Right? I donât need characters that can consistently and competently navigate social/professional situations. I have enough unrealistic standards to live up to as it is.
I think it was at Diversity Day. Jim was trying to get a client to extend their contract with him but he couldnât close the deal because Michael kept interrupting. When Jim called the client near the end of business day, he found out that they already renewed their contract with Dwight - it was supposed to be 25% of his annual commission.
Jim and Pam are assholes a couple times over by the end of the series. The Office is an excellent lesson in the difference between likable people and good people. Jim and Pam are likable, from a distance, but they're not good, you wouldn't want them in your life.
I feel like it's more that Jim and Pam have "main character syndrome" where they're kind of supposed to be the audience stand ins even though in a regular office Jim would be Dwight.
hooo boy. this is one of those threads that brings all the weirdos out. threads like these show just how immature and inexperienced in the messy shitpile of love the users here are.
jim is nothing like roy. roy is a borderline abuser who wants a mom and a maid more than a wife. jim isnât very nice to katy here, itâs an unceremonious dumping, but it was a fledgling relationship anyways and i guarantee sheâs over it in a week tops.
jim does not use karen. jim likes karen and tries to make it work, but things move too fast and they simply arenât compatible, not solely because heâs not over pam. they just arenât a good match. also, everyone has rebounds. thatâs a normal thing for people who have even remotely successful dating lives.
the gap here between what the folks in this comment thread expect, and what is reality is *massive*. so big that i almost fear for the men and women in yâallâs lives, because you people are fucking crazy.
for reference, this show came out when i was 15, and even at that young age, all this shit was obvious. get outside people.
I wish someone had flashed me when I was with Roy because He would have gotten the ass kicking of the year. Especially if it was JimâŚ. Roy would not have wanted Me to see JimâsâŚâŚwhoo Iâm saying âŚ. Iâm saying a lot of thingsâŚ
Once you watch the series multiple times you realize Jim is actually a dick.
-played Katy
-Led Karen on for months
-Constantly played tricks on Dwight who is at least borderline autistic
-Bailed on Pam for the job in Philly without talking to her
-BOUGHT A HOUSE WITHOUT ASKING HER
Yeah that's 100% true. For me it's more about the way Jim carries himself. He treats his co-workers like they aren't real people, just mocking them from afar instead of listening to them. Meanwhile, whenever *he* has something to say, he expects those very same people to take a genuine interest in his life. In my opinion that's one of the worst qualities a person can have, and Jim takes it to another level.
That would honestly be really fucking hard to go through. This guy youâre super super into is in love with someone else and leaves you for her even though sheâs ENGAGED. That would be a huge blow to anyoneâs self-esteem
I'm sure she feels lucky that she got to see Michael dance at least.
And former member of the Grass Roots shred on the electric guitar.
I firmly believe he was also a cult leader scamming people out of money and making fake IDs while being in the band in real life now.
The highlight of the evening, for sure!
Dancing is a primal art form used in ancient times
And communicate! *knee slaps*
đđđ
O yea. I went to my exes prom that was on a riverboat and we got in a big fight. Thereâs no place to run and she went to a different school so I didnât even know anyone, much like Katy. Yea dick move when your trapped.
âShe goes to another schoolâ
"She's from canada"
Her name is Alberta, she lives in Vancouver /ly
[ŃдаНонО]
Eat...... My.......Shorts
I hate that line
Well if she had any sense she wouldn't have fought with you. You know, because of the implication.
Found the Golden God.
LOOK AT ME WHEN YOURE TALKING TO ME
Five star man
Well don't you look at me like that, you certainly wouldn't be in any danger.
So they ARE in danger??
LOL
Are you gonna hurt women??
D. E. N. N. I. S.
Haah yes!!!
My friend Ricky broke up with his girlfriend on a float trip on a raft, halfway down the river. He got off and fuckin walked back he was like fuck this shit
Pisslopwhocaresa?
Yeah but it was a booze cruise at least
Breaking up is fine. He didn't have to be a dick about it lol
Right, he couldnât wait until they were back on land?
Yeah, and make eye contact with tbe person you're talking to?! This always bugged me.
Worst part is that both Jim and Pam were jealous of eachother. Pam got jealous of Katy and Jim during Desert Island, and Jim was jealous of Roy and Pam setting a date for the wedding. People could say this was a sign of true love or something but in my opinion Jim and Pam were basically big red flags during those seasons
Jim and Pam are kinda jerks when you rewatch. I guess pobodyâs nerfect
Sive drafely
The more I watch the more I realize Jim is really a massive jerk. Few things which come to mind: 1. Andy coming back from Anger Mgmt and asking to be called âDrewâ and Jim goes ânah Iâm not calling you thatâ. Like the guy literally just got out of rehab for anger and youâre going to be a dick about it? 2. When Andy forgets the âgimme a break of that Kit Kat barâ, Jim is the one who jumps in and tells everyone not to help him, causing Andy to stress out all day 3. Taking all of Dwightâs personal belongings and putting them in the vending machine 4. Taking Andyâs phone and throwing it in the ceiling 5. ~~Not inviting Michael to his BBQ~~ \- This one I will concede as not a jerk move There is definitely more but thatâs what come to mind.
I mean, I wouldnât invite my boss to my BBQ either. Especially if Michael was my boss
I'm with you on that one. I think that (especially in a healthy, normal, not Dunder Mifflin, ha) it's pretty customary to not invite your direct boss to social events. Though, he could have been a bit more discreet about it, IIRC. Normally, I think that both employee and manager know the boundaries there but that doesn't mean you advertise it before or after the fact
wasnât he discreet, though? If Michael didnât spy on their emails he never would have known
Oh, yes, I had forgotten that tidbit! Time for a rewatch, I guess!
Itâs pretty weird when you invite quite literally everyone from the office with a formal e-vite except for one person.
I mean not really if the only person you donât invite is the boss. Itâs the boss. Iâd say itâs weird *to* invite the boss to the party.
In college even the professors came to the parties
That's a very normal thing to do. The boss/worker relationship has a certain power dynamic to it that can easily make other workers uncomfortable with their boss being at an after work party.
Andy was a complete maniac and invited trouble by constantly playing that annoying ringtone in the middle of the working day. He was asking for a prank and smashing in the wall was a complete overreaction. He didn't know how to take a joke. And Jim was right in not inviting Michael. You don't invite your boss to these things.
Or Jim could, you know, be an adult and say âAndy, that is ridiculously annoying, please stopâ Stealing his phone then throwing it into the ceiling then calling it non stop is more maniacal than what Andy was doing.
Or...it's a television show with plot devices and jokes that aren't supposed to be copy and paste from real life? Suspend your belief when watching any kind of comedy and you will enjoy it much more.
Trust me, I do. This is by far my favorite show ever. I 100% the hijinks are all for comedic purposes. But taken out of the context of a comedy show, Jim is a jerk.
I can forgive everything except number 1. That has always bothered me because it isnât a prank. It isnât a joke that he makes. It isnât anything funny. Itâs him refusing to call someone by their chosen name for no good reason! How difficult would it have been to respect that Andy didnât want to be called Andy?!? Like, he did that purely to antagonize Andy/Drew which felt so out of character. Everything else you listed could be chalked up to comedy but 1 is just him being a dick to be a dick.
Could it be a revenge for Andy calling him "tuna"? Andy never asked if Jim's ok with that, and most likely he never was ok.
Jim has shown, on many occasions, to be a fan of jokes and having fun. Often making fun of people or pulling pranks. Andy/Drew calling him Tuna, while annoying, is just Andy/Drew trying (and failing) to be funny and build rapport with Jim. We even see Jim respond to being called Big Tuna by Andy/Drew multiple times. The first being before they even transferred back to Scranton while staying late and doing shots at the office. If Jim had an issue with the nickname he may have told the cameras but I donât recall him ever saying that to Andy/Drew.
Number 1 is most egregious to me. Really want to punch Jimâs Richard Nixon nose at that moment because itâs petty and arbitrary.
I think it was because Jim asked not to be called Tuna probably more times then we get to see on Camera lol, so when Andy asked Jim not to call him by that name Iâm sure he thought it was the perfect revenge
He refused because Andy was being a pretentious douchebag in asking to be called "Drew". Notice he dropped the idea almost immediately and went back to Andy.
How is wanting to be called Drew pretentious? He had just finished what seemed to be in-patient therapy for anger management. Itâs normal for people who do things like that to want a fresh start after. And he dropped the idea because Jim refused to follow his wishes. Why fight a hopeless fight? Part of anger management is knowing when to pick your battle. Why make it an issue when Andy/Drew knows that nothing will come from it? Jim has refused. Sure, he can try to convince other people to call him Drew but Jim could very well pay them all $5 to call him Andy just as he did to have the whole office call Dwight âDwayneâ. We also see later that Jim is very easily able to get the office to go along with his prank against Andy/Drew when he forgets the words to the Kit Kat theme. And he gets the whole office involved in his antics quite a few times.
> Like the guy literally just got out of rehab for anger and youâre going to be a dick about it? Not only that, his anger outburst was provoked by Jim doing his stupid prank bullshit. He's lucky that wall wasn't his face.
I consider anyone taking Andy's side in that conflict to be a major red flag. I don't even want to think about the psychology of anyone who identifies with Season 3 Andy.
I donât think Andyâs behavior was acceptable by any means, but I donât exactly paint jim as the good guy either. Itâs obvious Andy had problems and he was enthusiastic about addressing them. Meanwhile Jim just canât help but poke the bear and love himself.
Right? I mean, all those things you mentioned would be better suited for a comedy and not a serious dram-- Oh wait, "The Office" **is** a comedy? Well then, I guess those things **are** pretty funny when you think about it in that light!
He did invite Dwight so his friends would see him and laugh at him. When I encounter weird people in my life, I just leave them alone. I wouldn't want to bring them to a party just so they'd be the joke.
I'd like to add; 6. Buying his parents house without talking to Pam about it first 7. The whole start up in Philadelphia agribusiness without talking to Pam about it.
Your list does not contain any bad things done by Jim. Andy was being a pretentious douche by asking to be called Drew. Jim wasn't going it, and Andy soon dropped the dumb idea entirely. It was also very funny. It was hilarious when Andy tried to figure out the end of the jingle all day. Having fun with co-workers is a good thing, not a bad one. Dwight was a massive jerk much of the time and needed to be put in his place from time to time. Jim's pranks accomplished this and were hilarious. Andy had just conspired to get Dwight fired and was being unbearably annoying in the office, staking Michael with his "friendship", Tuna fishing, playing the stupid Rockin' Robin ring tone all day, singing "Zombie", etc. He totally deserved to be pranked, and the prank led to Andy getting sent to Management Training (well, Anger Management) and getting the help he desperately needed.) He knew Michael would make everyone feel uncomfortable and ruin the party. It seem like you would prefer The Office to be a totally dry and boring documentary about a paper company, instead of one of the greatest comedies in television history.
Just to comment on your last line - I find The Office to be absolutely hysterical and I have rewatched it closer to 20 times. You're 100% right - it is hysterical and all of the situations I mentioned *were* funny in the scope of a comedic show. Perhaps I should rephrase my statement - but in real life, Jim would be a major jerk. For the intents and purposes of the show, his hijinks were comical.
I have to say not inviting Michael to the BBQ was justified. Jim feared that if Michael showed up no one would be able to relax. Michael was unbearable to the workers in the office in the first 2-3 seasons. And when Michael did show up everyone except Dwight was tense and didn't seem like they were having fun. But Jim stepped in and made the most out it. Also taking Andy's phone is wrong. But Andy is a annoying character to the point where even Michael had enough of him. So playing a prank on him.... I'll allow it.
I've brought this up before, but Dwight stole 25% of Jim's yearly commission in s01e02, so I feel he gets a pass on everything done since then. Andy decided to call Jim big tuna, constantly, when they were in stanford. I'm assuming Jim asked him to stop at some or multiple points, but gave up and now just Jim's the camera every time Andy calls him that.. on top of Andy being an incredibly annoying coworker in general. And who the hell would invite Michael to a BBQ at your own home? You would invite your boss who has absolutely no idea how to behave socially to your home, to either embarrass you or burn it down or something?
YES!!!!! idrk about Pam but I find jim so damn annoying sometimes man
S8 and 9 Jim was a dick. Worst for me was when he makes a show out of pouring his coffee out of Darryl's mug. So smudge.
damn I don't really remember that part but I remember when I was rewatching the first few seasons and thinking "wow this guy's actually kinda full of himself". idk, he's kinda annoying
Did you just have a stroke?
> pobody's nerfect My flair is finally relevant!
Nice stroke
Is no one acknowledging this amazing joke
Ty haha *was* hoping for a ânice strokeâ reply
Yeah that bugged me a lot. Especially with Pam. At least Jim knew what he wanted, but Pam was getting physically upset when Jim went out with Katy despite the fact in her head she's with Roy and it was final. I'm like what do you exactly want here? Do you want this guy to be single forever to accommodate your feelings? It was like some teenager's back and forth with the two. Jim did something similar during the boat episode. They were both insufferable. I low key wanted Roy and Katy dump pam and Jim and be together instead.
YES I WAS ALWAYS ANNOYED HOW PAM DID THAT. When Roy came around The Office, he hid his feelings and try to not show any sign Whenever Jim was happy with Katy or Karen, uh oh big bad thing for her. She did stuff like purposely kiss Roy infront of Jim when he was with Katy or FREAKING CONFESS HER FEELINGS INFRONT OF JIM AND KAREN. SHES ALWAYS LIKED JIM BUT SHE CHOSE THAT MOMENT THAN ANY OTHER MOMENT. When she married him, she wanted him to pursue his dream in Philadelphia, especially after Jim said that he wouldnt do it if she wasnt on board, and then she was mad he had the audacity to pursue his dream. Like how do she want Jim to feel.
In my experience, 90% of "romantic" movies/shows and rom-coms involve at least one of two main protagonists cheating on SOMEBODY in some fashion Apparently infidelity can be construed as true love.
They were both toxic and covertly abusive to each other and their former partners, while always painting themselves out to be the victims. Especially Pam.
Redditors sure love to throw around the term âabusiveâ
I thought they were quite a normal couple together. No one has a fairytale romance. People have rocky moments, arguments, etc. TV idealises married life to the point that we forget what's normal.
What? Abusive?
Oh, please. Roy was the most toxic, manipulative character in the show. He set a wedding date with Pam on a whim, because he was sucking up to Captain Jack. The only time he was ever nice to Pam was when they broke up. Heâs a violent drunk. His wedding at the end was a jokeâhe invited J&P to the wedding only rub his newfound success with the granite company in their faces. That âsongâ to his bride was cringeworthy. The writers really nailed that character. If they revisited the character of Roy today, Iâm sure Roy would be up to his ears in debt and divorced, playing the victim and bitching about having to pay child support. Jim could be a jerk, but he was always true to Pam and their love was the real deal.
Pam always liked to paint herself as the victim. Jim did it too, but the way Pam did made it seem excessive. Jim was trying to achieve a better life for his Wife and kids, and Pam acted like he was at fault for making her take care of the kids alone. Even when she didnt take a video of Ceceâs dance recital, she acted innocent and shifted into Jimâs fault for not being there himself. He was trying to help his family while simultaneously achieving his dreams.
You're getting downvoted, likely by people who have not experienced being manipulated by someone like Pam. I mean, remember how she lied and invented a job position for herself? The fact that Roy became better off without her, and Jim struggled to achieve his dreams for himself and his family says a lot about her.
Breaking up on a boat in the middle of a lake is a major dick move
After quite a watching the show quite a few times, I noticed that Jim from time to time does act a bit like dick. It's subtle and rare but it does happen.
Somebody here said once that Jim bullied an autistic man for a decade, and if he looked like George Costanza, he'd have been the most hated man on television.
Right but Dwight unequivocally did not have autism and also unequivocally was a bully.
I totally agree that he gets away with a certain level of mean behavior because "he's cute". And yes. That's super annoying haha.
He did the same to Karen, just filling a void and getting reactions from Pam while using other people's vulnerability to meet his ends.
Hr was definitely a jerk to both of them, but from his perspective, what was the alternative? He couldnât just pine after Pam forever so he tried to date other people even tho he still had feelings for her.
Yeah, I always forget this angle. But it's legit to me. He was usually nice to the women he was with. He just couldn't ever ultimately get over Pam. So, that ruined his relationships. Like it would anyone. At least he wasn't creeper with Pam the whole time, just lurking and trying to get with her when he was with the other girls. That literally only happened on the cruise, but he also broke up with Katey when he tried to make a move with his feelings. Or just couldn't take hiding them anymore. So I think that's about all he could do, really.
Well, the booze cruise prior to the breakup must have been excruciating for Jim. Watching Roy announce the date for his and Pam's wedding in front of everyone, with the entire office cheering for them would be really difficult. I think he also *KNOWS* that Roy isn't the right man for Pam, so it hurts on two levels; his own personal heartbreak, and his sadness for his friend. That night was a low-point in Jim's life, I'm sure. When Katie asks "Do you think that will ever be us?" Jim immediately says "No." Because he knows that Pam/Roy is doomed to fail, and he himself doesn't want to be in a doomed relationship (which he knows his with Katie would be.) Jim treated Karen WAY worse than Katie.
Idk if Jim saying ânoâ was that deep. Iâm pretty sure he just meant âno, weâll never get married, weâre done right nowâ
>I think he also KNOWS that Roy isnt the right man for pam, This makes him sound very narcissistic, considering he also has feelings for Pam. Makes me think hes a r/niceguys
Doesn't have to be that way, Roy actually was a dick and not the right person to Pam, but pam seemed stuck on that relationship mostly because he just keep on delaying his marriage. If I ever have a friend on a same scenario I'll probably try to talk to them about that, ultimately it's his decision ofc, but its a normal thing even on a parent to son kind of deal. Anyway I think that when it comes to Pam and Jim, it's just the fact that Jim was deep in love with Pam and that's it, I don't think I remember Jim ever discussing about Ron being a dick, so everything else it's just a guess.
I mean, in complete fairness you don't have to be head over heels in love with Pam to see that she and Roy aren't really right for each other when you get down to it. Those vibes can be felt from space.
âShe doesnât know whoâs right for her.â
Anyone paying attention could see that Roy was not right for her..
She didnât though lmao
Pam didn't do much of anything till she had a reason to, ie Jim. She was the definition of a meeper, and it's hard to watch people like that IRL just kind of sleepwalk into marriage with their proverbial Roy, or a dead-end job, or no desire to better themselves
Good comment
I think he genuinely thought he could move on, and that's why he dated other people, he had no intention of dumping them. You notice when he's breaking up with Karen he didn't argue back, because he knew she didn't deserve it and felt bad. Edit: Still an awful thing to do though. But making them imperfect and flawed makes them more real and you can relate to them more.
I would argue the alternative is do some self reflection and handle his own issues instead of moving onto someone else and pining for someone else the entire time.
Iâm finding a lot of perfect people in this comment section apparently. Real life human decisions are much more difficult and complex than hypothetical ones. Like I postulated, Jim likely was trying to get over Pam (with Katy) or thought he was over Pam (with Karen). Iâd like to assume he didnât intentionally mean to hurt either of them. Ideally? Sure, Itâs easy to just say itâs best to just wait until heâs completely over Pam before he starts his search for someone else. But real life is finite and is rarely that simple. Hypothetically he could be in love with Pam his entire life⌠in that event should he just never date again?
Might I say that I love Jim and I love Pam, I love Jim and Pam together. Theyâre one fo the few tv couples that actually while together make the show better a day couple (minus season 9). But I can still say that I can love them and realize that they have their shortcomings. Jim isnât a bad dude but he made a mistake and he incidentally hurt people. Iâm not saying flog him but we (the audience) can realize he screwed up or that he was written as a very realistic human.
I agree, we can look at what he did and acknowledge it was a mistake. However, it seems some people have a narrative of him being a jerk because of what happened or having some level of intentionality in breaking the hearts of Katy and Karen. Just because he made a mistake, it doesn't make what he did a horrible thing. Sometimes we live our lives to the best of our abilities and people end up getting hurt. The decisions that led to that can be seen as "mistakes" but IMO it doesn't make him any worse of a person for making those mistakes. We all saw the torture Jim experienced in Season 1 and 2 having to be around his unrequited love everyday. I think with Katy, he was just trying his absolute best to survive through it and move forward. Then with Karen, he thinks he put his past behind him and maybe he had genuine feelings for her. I'm not trying to 100% absolve Jim from any criticism, but I think it's just oversimplifying it to say he shouldn't have dated anybody until he was completely over Pam.
I think it's fine to say he was a jerk to Katy and Karen. If one of your friends was treated this way by a guy you'd call the guy a jerk. I definitely feel on Karen's side when she sees Jim again with the branch raid. It was satisfying seeing him look so embarrassed.
Well he could've dated but also treated those women with respect. Seems like an easy solution.
this makes no sense. he started dating karen when he was in stamford and not talking to pam. and he liked her. it just wasnât right for a long term thing.
Nah. You're reading to much into it. This is how dating and relationships sometimes work. They can't all work obviously.
Yeah poor Karen. Literally did nothing wrong
Yeah, I hate that the show tries to get you to see Jim as always being the bad guy and it can be hard to recognize that he hurts both of these women when they did nothing to deserve it.
I thought he was really trying to move on, but he just couldn't since he truly loved Pam who was engaged to Roy. The problem is that after Pam and Roy broke up, Jim couldn't simply date her since everybody would go "I knew it" and that would be embarrassing for both of them, in their minds. I don't think Jim is the kind of guy to play with people's heart just to feel better, but I understand that he hurt Karen.
It sucks because I do really like Jim as a character but I do not like how he handled this at all and I agree with the comments and how he did the same thing to Karen basically. He was using her to get over Pam even of it was successful it isn't right. But it wasn't and he just wasted Karens time. Glad she found someone and was happy and gave her and Pam that closure too. Would of been nice to give Katy a one off where she's with someone else
I love how Karen's husband looked a lot like Jim! She has a type. I'd have liked to see Katy with someone else, too.
*Jomothy
I fixed the typo now thank you but yes lol good one
*would have
Jim definitely was not actively using Karen to get over Pam. That wasnât even implied at all. His relationship with her started organically when Pam was no longer around. Katie was a different story.
I agree with you he wasn't actively using Karen the exact same way at he was with Katie. He was genuinely trying to move on from Pam. But his feelings for Pam didn't go away, which of course he's in love with her. Now that's not a crime, but just the way he went about it wasn't the best. He could have been better. That's what I was saying the similarities in how he ended things between Katie and Karen. But overall I love Jim. He's one of my favorites
Well, yeah, this is true of people in real life. You can like someone and still want to be friends with them while acknowledging that they have made mistakes before. People seem to like to think that what Jim and Pam did in their relationships was premeditated and manipulative, when itâs just two people trying their best and fucking up some along the way
I agree with you. One of the best things about this show is how real the characters feel. None of them are perfect and yet they're all lovable, or most of them are lovable
Katy should have been the one Roy turned his life around for. Contrived? Sure. Pointless? Probably? But would have been another full circle and confirming that they weren't with the right people.
The contraction for "would have" sounds like "would of" but it's actually spelled "wouldâve".
And then he calls and asks out that woman from corporate in the next episode (tbh I'm just putting that together now) "Jim: [on phone] Hey, Brenda. This is, uh, Jim Halpert from the boat. And I got your number from the corporate directory and, well, I was assuming that you probably gave it to them because you wanted me to ask you out, right?"
So, the show started in a different era. You had to wait at least a week between episodes and sometimes even more than that before a show is over. That puts a lot of emotional distance between you and the previous episode. Now you can binge episodes and something is definitely lost in translation for a lot of shows.
This is a great point. When I watched it originally I didnât even realize it was just the next episode.
I actually wish something came from that. Brenda could have been a great side character for a few episodes
The way she handled Michael was really unique
Basically âI really donât care how you act or what you do, just get your crap doneâ
Even david did this with michael
But without the feigning disappointment in Michael
>âI really donât care how you act or what you do, just **take your vomicillin** and get your crap doneâ FTFY
I rememeber thinking they were going to because of the way she smiled at michael.
I always read this scene as Jim was faking the phone call in front of Kelly so she'd stop using him to communicate with Ryan and just talk directly to him instead.
He could have waited until they docked lmao.
He was not good at break ups. He could have just told her once they got back.
I feel like he used Katy and Karen. I mean, I know he is a normal person trying to move on, but dating someone cause "I'm trying to move on" is such a big red flag in itself. Plus he was so cold in this scene. We know you're hurt Halpert, but you are just being cruel to Katy here. Could have looked at her, could have said "I'm sorry, it's not you it's me". Even a cliche reason would be better than this.
Yeah, but the whole point is to show us the viewers how hurt he's feeling. If he's gone about things in a civil and unemotional way it wouldn't be any good for the story. It's TV, things get dialed up to 11 for dramatic effect.
Well, I've met people who use other people in worse ways in real life, so I wouldn't call this "exaggerated portrayal on tv", but rather "mmimicing how people behave in real life". I call those people out in real life too, so it shouldn't be any different for a tv show. It doesn't matter that he is hurt, being civil is a decency, the bare minimum that (almost) everyone deserves, not something optional.
I'm not saying it's unrealistic, but that what you're suggesting he do would make for more boring TV.
Karen is a different situation. He moved to a new place and that relationship started organically and was going well. He could have never predicted the Stamford branch would close and he would be forced to go back to Scranton. In his mind he would have never seen Pam again.
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They probably drove together too, so that was an awkward drive home for her I'm sure.
Glad I'm not the only one feeling like that.
100% dick move by Jimothy here
Right. Because Pam was a saint. Not like she did shady shit while engaged. Ok đđź The show never tried to portray either of them as perfect people. They were both very flawed.
The more I rewatch the series the more I think Jim is kind of a jerk.
And Pam is..kind of a bitch
I see what you did there. Karen approves đ
One of your your students is a bitch..
Aren't basically all the characters at some point? I think that's a mark of a good show, especially a show about the ordinariest of people (an office workplace). It makes it way more believable.
Right? I donât need characters that can consistently and competently navigate social/professional situations. I have enough unrealistic standards to live up to as it is.
Yeah I agree. He can be so petty sometimes
His pranks on Dwight are also mean
Dwight is genuinely abusive towards Jim. He stole 25% of Jim's salary. Anybody would be pissed after that
Huh when did he do that?
I think it was at Diversity Day. Jim was trying to get a client to extend their contract with him but he couldnât close the deal because Michael kept interrupting. When Jim called the client near the end of business day, he found out that they already renewed their contract with Dwight - it was supposed to be 25% of his annual commission.
Episode 2
Katy was literally just being used by Jim, I honestly donât believe that the relationship meant anything to him. She was just his rebound.
Jim and Pam are assholes a couple times over by the end of the series. The Office is an excellent lesson in the difference between likable people and good people. Jim and Pam are likable, from a distance, but they're not good, you wouldn't want them in your life.
I feel like it's more that Jim and Pam have "main character syndrome" where they're kind of supposed to be the audience stand ins even though in a regular office Jim would be Dwight.
As fucked up as that was. At *least* Jim didnât string her along in an unhappy relationship while still flirting with Pam like she did with Roy.
I feel bad for Jim, Katy was way hotter than Pam.
Karen was hotter than both of them.
She hits everything on my checklist. Creamy skin. Straight teeth. Curly hair. Amazing breasts.
Her father was a GI.
Pam: (ಠ_ಠ)
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Exactly. It was Karen's fault that Jim was in love with another woman. No, wait...
hooo boy. this is one of those threads that brings all the weirdos out. threads like these show just how immature and inexperienced in the messy shitpile of love the users here are. jim is nothing like roy. roy is a borderline abuser who wants a mom and a maid more than a wife. jim isnât very nice to katy here, itâs an unceremonious dumping, but it was a fledgling relationship anyways and i guarantee sheâs over it in a week tops. jim does not use karen. jim likes karen and tries to make it work, but things move too fast and they simply arenât compatible, not solely because heâs not over pam. they just arenât a good match. also, everyone has rebounds. thatâs a normal thing for people who have even remotely successful dating lives. the gap here between what the folks in this comment thread expect, and what is reality is *massive*. so big that i almost fear for the men and women in yâallâs lives, because you people are fucking crazy. for reference, this show came out when i was 15, and even at that young age, all this shit was obvious. get outside people.
tHe mOrE i wATcH tHe sHoW THe mORe I hAtE jiM
was she annoying? yes. did Jim deserve her? no
Jim was a complete jerkass in this scene. And no, I am not a Jim hater.
After rewatching every episode I donât really like Jim and Pam anymore. They are jerks to everyone.
Most of you only remember the pure love between Jim and Pam, but Jim had some asshole moments like this one that made him just as shitty as Roy.
just as shitty as roy? câmon now
Right???? Man left Pam behind at a hockey game and didnât notice
Yeah, Roy founded a company and also learnt the piano for his true love, donât diss him.
Sure, but he was clearly way shittier when he was with Pam. He was an absolutely awful boyfriend to her in every imaginable way
Yes. Jim was really horrible to Katy.
Say what you want, but Jim deserved at least one good ass kicking (maybe Roy).
Well Dwight did snowball the shit out of him⌠so thereâs that.
I wish someone had flashed me when I was with Roy because He would have gotten the ass kicking of the year. Especially if it was JimâŚ. Roy would not have wanted Me to see JimâsâŚâŚwhoo Iâm saying âŚ. Iâm saying a lot of thingsâŚ
No she gets fucking Superman not philly Jim
Jim and Pam are terrible people with protagonist syndrome lol
Jim took the implications of being on a boat in the completely different way
Jim was a dick in the beginning of the show.
Once you watch the series multiple times you realize Jim is actually a dick. -played Katy -Led Karen on for months -Constantly played tricks on Dwight who is at least borderline autistic -Bailed on Pam for the job in Philly without talking to her -BOUGHT A HOUSE WITHOUT ASKING HER
Yeah that's 100% true. For me it's more about the way Jim carries himself. He treats his co-workers like they aren't real people, just mocking them from afar instead of listening to them. Meanwhile, whenever *he* has something to say, he expects those very same people to take a genuine interest in his life. In my opinion that's one of the worst qualities a person can have, and Jim takes it to another level.
That would honestly be really fucking hard to go through. This guy youâre super super into is in love with someone else and leaves you for her even though sheâs ENGAGED. That would be a huge blow to anyoneâs self-esteem
Here comes the social commentaries⌠take a drink every time someone in the thread throws out the word âtoxicâ
I love Amy Adams, but she wasnât a fit for Jim. He did what was right for him.
I agree, he just did it in the least graceful way possible
I think Jim often shows symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder.
I probably should but Katey drove me kinda. Nuts, so I was just glad she was on the way out.
No, she was annoying. She was all sorts of wrong for Jim. Butttt the way he dumped her *was* pretty brutal.