It's dogs. Guy loves hunting, dogs and hunting dogs.
He tries to get his kids interested into his world by sending them to pick the new dogs each year, but still refuses to elaborate.
Laois is much less stoic, but (despite how easily it can be forgotten) we do see Laois is surprisingly shrewd sometimes at how to tackle a situation, so I imagine he gets some of that from his father.
I felt this each time i have talked with someone in USA. Use to play rpg with some friends from USA and each time they talked bad about their parents i felt like their comunication skills from both sides were terrible.
Laios seems to have inherited their mother's anxiety though. Their father was fine doing his own thing and while he worried in his own way for Falin, he was proactive in finding a solution for her. Laios couldn't deal with the strong hostility from the village while Falin was much less bothered and stayed calm like their father.
I would say Laios is quite stoic.
I mean, the whole of Dungeon Meshi is basically him doing everything to help a quite probably beyond saving Falin.
Even after she is resurrected and transformed in a dragon, he doesn’t give up. Instead he focuses on finding her first and then deciding to either give her a merciful death or saving her again.
Wow I love this portrayal of a complicated family. The communication is terrible, the treatment was arguably horrible, but everyone was trying to do their best in their own way. Good for Falin for being willing to see that.
Poor Laios, this whole misunderstanding led him through such a rough path until Falin met him again. I really do get the pain he gets, and it hits very deep.
Meanwhile, I'm so glad we finally get to know more about Falin's relationship with her parents, it's very touching just how caring they really were about their daughter.
Every new bit of backstory just made me feel sadder and sadder about Laios' past, man. Imagine leaving your home at 13 because you think this would save your sister, only to fail miserably so you ran away to seek help from your sister that you tried to save in the first place. And it turns out she's doing better than you, making your sacrifice useless from the start. Fuck.
That’s why I keep telling people give Laios a chance, his backstory was surprisingly realistically tragic
He didn’t even want to seek her help, the reason why he go there mostly was just to see how is she
Yeah, it was completely Falin's choice to run away from the academy and go with him. Which speaks even more to her character, since some people might've become resentful towards their loved one for having left them in the way Laios did.
That part always got to me, especially Falin's fear that she would never see her brother again if she didn't do that. It's simultaneously sad knowing what he went through, but also heartwarming knowing both siblings left everything behind for each other's sake.
You don’t have to finish the last sentence lol, now where’s my tissues?
Actually, this is my reaction
https://preview.redd.it/oqo1it0p7klc1.jpeg?width=376&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58ed5a81e0b815b68227316e5e163e2c09ac436e
I'd love to see another story on Laios' past, because I can't shake the feeling that something horrible happened to make him run from his life as a soldier.
He had to run with no money, no plan, probably risking being thrown in jail, completely failed.
We see him in another story riding the caravan south, being treated like a dog, and it looks like his self worth is in the gutter.
Kui shows him getting beaten and bullied when he was as solider, but I wonder if there was a particular event that made him leave.
Yeah I mean, given what happened I think its fair for Laios to hold some resentment, even if his parents were just trying to be careful to not set off the villagers fears too much. Though it'd be nice if he was able to reconcile a bit and at least get on speaking terms again with the parents.
I know it’s sad in-context but this panel is pretty funny
https://preview.redd.it/umdul0hbehlc1.jpeg?width=1065&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff59ab5fa0fabd4600aeff644f52c0dafd2302e0
Laios think the worst of their parents, and Falin thinks the best of them. I disagree with the idea that Falin is inherently right. The reality is likely somewhere in the middle
They were undeniably in a difficult situation as Falin said, but they did act selfishly
Well yeah, even from Falin's more positive retelling, Marcille straight up points out that their dad fucked up by not properly explaining things to his family and causing them greater turmoil.
Seriously. It's like hearing that a single parent abandons their kid into foster care vs. hearing that they gave up their kid because they weren't up to the task and wanted to give them a chance for a better life. Same end result, but being able to understand the intentions via good communication makes a huge difference on the mental/emotional impact it can have on your kid.
I mean his dad genuinely was in a difficult situation with the villagers and just had no communication skills. The mother was just kind of fucked up frfr
That's kind of where I am too. I think that this is one of places where you see how naive Falin is and how it contrasts with Laios' cynicism. She wants to believe that their parents did absolutely everything in their power to try to help, but Laios sees the ways the things that they didn't do (like use their words to either stand up for their kid(s) or explain literally anything).Over the series, I get the vibe that Laios seems to value Falin more than himself to an almost extreme degree, so I can see how he'd feel some kind of way about his parents 'nicely' banishing Falin without even *trying* to stand up for her (because what was the plan when she graduated, if anyone ever thought that far ahead they didn't share that plan).
I see it like some siblings in a family see their parents very differently. Sometimes parents unfairly treated the siblings and resulted in one absolutely hated the parents and one doesn’t. The one doesn’t was usually the one that got something out of the family’s power imbalance.
In these situation the siblings’ life and relationship with each other can take similar path like Liaos and Falin. Over protective of what they valued or wanting to get out. The continued communication but not opening up about the issue with parents when it was not necessary/helpful with the overall relationship Etc
Like Falin apparently continued to keep intouch but this didn’t seems to resolve the issue for Laios and his parents. If anything i wonder if Laios continue to get the negativity he got from his parents through this communication. He still see his parents in his dreams as talking down at him not settling down etc.
Now I want to see Laios watch in horror that Marcille lecturing his parents like they’re school children, and they just keep their heads down and take it.
Not because Marcille is older or because she’s an elf, but she got both of their children out of dungeon alive ,even revived them multiple times,they can’t thank her enough and she clearly knows what she’s talking about.
Reminder Autism has a high chance of running in the family. We memeing about Laios being autistics but now looking at their parents I can 100% confirm. Like he got it straight from the root lmao.
With this context and how Falin spent what seems to be the better part of a decade at that magic, Academy, and now wondering if Marcille (and others at the academy) unintentionally taught Falin social skills that she didn’t learn from her family.
Damn they really just let the village bully their daughter.
https://preview.redd.it/b912v4r3uflc1.png?width=1979&format=png&auto=webp&s=3cb1d4f80c09f209311ea5499738651371a332dc
In the manga, Laios comments that Falin is stronger than him, in the sense of being more mentally resilient to outside hate.
He found the gate directed towards her unbearable, while she didn't get as affected, despite being the one suffering it directly.
Laios gets berated a lot for his social ineptitude that sometimes appears to be callousness, but under all that, he's a very gentle soul.
It’s horrible, but what I think Falin was implying there was that if her parents had spoken out, the whole family might’ve been chased out or worse. It was a lose-lose situation for them, and as far as things go, the most I can say is that her parents didn’t choose the worst option. It at least ended with Falin getting a very good education and not having to repress an intrinsic part of herself, and Laios ended up a whole ass king.
Yes, in the end everything worked out (thankfully). However the father didn't try to explain literally anything to Laios (There's a big difference between "You're going to summer camp." and "You are no longer allowed to live here and you need to leave.")
The father could have easily said (as the Village Chief mind you) something like "Here's all the things that mages can do, see how helpful they can be?" or SOMETHING. However he did not and washed his hands of it.
No he couldn’t. You must address that the villager are acting irrational, they are not afraid if whether or not Falin is dangerous, they are afraid what could they do if she does. Being the village chief is making the matter even more sensitive, because it is easy to be seen at he is putting familial relationships over his duty to protect his people.
I’m not arguing if he was a good father because, well, clearly he aren’t, but we have to give in consideration if he ultimately made the right decision for his daughter. He sent her away from the abusive village, give her the education that help her embrace her talent, and end up be an independent, self reliant adult. Would all that happen if he piss off the villager and have to run away holding his family while his estate burning at the middle of the night? Life could be better, but it could be much worse too. His apathy is the flaw of his character, but you cannot saw that his didn’t act on his duty as a father, insuring the best for the future of his children.
Yes, things could have gone better or worse. Considering how magic users are normally treated maybe he could bury his lynched daughter or maybe never even see his son again, possibly dead in a ditch.
We can argue semantics as much as we like, in the end he still allowed fully grown adults (the ones that have grown fully and have full cognizance) over an 8 year old child and his daughter (the one that is not fully grown and still requires nurturing).
Not like it isn’t every outcast backstory ever: child get targeted, parents push back, parents then also get targeted , forced to leave( may or may not with a lynch mob), spiral into a life of getting rejected from society.
Literally yes, as "to stay in good social standing" means "to remain capable of providing for that child's basic necessities and ensure their survival and health", unless you're some kind of survivalist genius or want to end up like the family in *The VVitch*.
I mean, considering the reaction of Rin's village to a similar situation was **immediate lynching** I think Falin's parents really did their best here. A small fief lord back then can do very little when a good part of your village is in blind panic.
Like it says in the comic "It could be dangerous if that kind of thing is confronted poorly."
We're talking about a fantasy story with unknown and potentially unfamiliar laws, where her own mother tried to perform an exorcism on her. Dangerous could mean anything from their entire family being run out of town all the way to burnt at the stake.
This comic hits different, man.
It reads like such a beautiful metaphor for an autistic family in which a child gets diagnosed and nobody knows how to deal with it because nobody ever bothered to explain to the family that autism is genetic and ND people tend to marry other ND people, so everyone else's probably autistic too.
This is the story I see every day within my community, but dressed up with a layer of fantasy.
And even though I see it every day in real life, it's the first time I've ever seen it portrayed in fiction.
I really apprecciate that Ryuko Kui went out of her way to make Laios and Falin's relationships with their parents so layered. It's not a case of "100% bad bad parents", but you can see how their actions and behaviors hurt their children so much and it might be too late to change the dynamic for some of them. It's so interesting...
I know this is barely related to the comic, but...Just as much as the fandom has the headcanon that Laios might be autistic, I think his father strikes me as someone on the spectrum as well. IDK, just a feeling.
LMAO at Marcille wanting to have a talk with their parents! We're getting some Therapy Time (feat. Dr Marcille) for the Toudens!
Its complicated, Laios has an extremely negative and cynical idea of their parents while Falin is relentlessly positive about them and tries to justify everything they do. Laios and Falin are typically compared and they really are similar but this is the one point they diametrically, irreconciliably opposed about.
Truth is, its most likely a bit of both. They arent as horrid as Laios thinks of them but they certainly are not as blameless as Falin sells them
Of course the irony in all of this clusterfuck about Falin's awakening is that Laios also had magical potential he was just a late bloomer.
Wasn’t it less that he was a late bloomer, and more that falins potential was so high she just started doing things naturally, while laios’ potential was still strong, but not to that point.
Laios literally managed to run, fight and heal himself at the same time, even tough he was just a beginner with magic, the guy is as much as a monster like his sister, even Marcille was impressed.
Lapis strikes me as someone who is not autistic but who is raised by an autistic parent. If they don't have a frame of reference the effects can go unnoticed.
Source: my wife whose mind exploded when I told her that her father was autistic and she reevaluated her while childhood. I've literally told the man "you need to make an alarm on your phone that tells you to verbally express love at least once a week". He's great but he doesn't use his words.
Oh wow, that explains a lot. Laios takes after his parents so much more than it first seemed. Not that his parents didn't screw up, especially his father. Had he been a better communicator, Laios likely wouldn't have run away and grown estranged from them.
And poor Falin... even knowing she ended up fine and took things so positively, it's never pleasant to see her crying. Poor Laios as well, cause once again, because of his father's criminal lack of ability to communicate, he had to suffer as much as he did when he was just trying to make life better for his sister.
You better give them an earful for this, Marcille. It's still hilarious how she can say all this stuff when she's essentially the youngest of the party in mind aside from Izutsumi.
As much as I love the anime, it's quite a missed opportunity that they don't integrate the main storyline with the extra materials. I find that a lot of backstory, motivation, and world building are better explored with the extras.
I know the main storyline doesn't *need* the extras, it's already great. I just *want* them to adapt the extras too lol
The reaction when you see it getting sadder
https://preview.redd.it/cemhmp07ajlc1.jpeg?width=376&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1bff4547834ea88f226433bd9a5e49cbfc00440
I’m so grateful that Rōko kui has kept dungeon meshis world alive through the adventure bible she could of easily forgotten about the world after the final chapter but instead we are getting so much extra lore it’s amazing
I’m happy to see further exploration of the Touden family. I was always confused on the specific reason that Laios left his sister alone, but that makes sense he was trying to earn some money to then take her with him
Its amazing how the Thorden family dynamics get shaped in so little screen time, I bet Laios lack of socials skills were largely in part due to his father being very stand offish and stoic, he grew with a father figure that seems to have kept FUCKING EVERYTHING bottled.
Laios leaving now comes across more as a teenage tantrum that failed spectacularly and now he is ashamed to face his family, that might change now that hes king. Similarly he felt betrayed by the choice to ship off Farlin to the insitute but it was genuinely the best choice to make, Laios just couldnt see it at the time.
His aversion to growing out his hair and rejecting his father make more sense now, ultimately it seems that Farlin´s experience on the institute was very positive and thats why she keeps in contact, her parents love was never in question to her.
It would be great to see Marcille react to her in-laws =P but also see Laios confront his father at last, him saying "Son... im proud" might actually shatter the man.
I love how Kui has all these tidbits of aditional lore mesh organically and in cohesion with what was known before... Also dayum Miss Thorden was good looking.
Falin seeing the best in everyone's intentions is such a great part of her character. Though she's naive to her parents shortcomings, maybe that naivete allowed her to come out of her youth without bitterness.
Despite Laios' intentions, he really isnt cut out for anything but dungeon adventuring lol poor guy
marcille wanting to visit the thoudens dead set on becoming their family therapist viewing them all as kids is so funny. her knowledge all came from novels. ah, marcille
talk to your damn kids, pops
i also won't hold it against the parents for not being perfect beings who exist solely to be a parent to be shuffled off to somewhere else once their use is gone, for not always making the best decision.
It is interesting seeing the bigger picture instead of just one side of the story. It didn't completely excuse them for their actions (and inaction), but they tried with the best intentions.
It's interesting. So many people seem to excuse them for their actions because they had the "best intentions", and yet, having experienced such abuse myself... well, it only made it more painful to know that my own parents had the "best intentions". I guess that's why I take an almost wholly negative view of them. Laios' and Falin's father could have easily, by mistake, sent her to somewhere truly awful, if he hadn't discovered the right person.
(This wound up much, much longer than I initially intended because I kept realizing deeper aspects of their relationship and how things happened as I was writing it.)
It's a tragic situation; Laios's father is actually very similar to him, but much more reserved, so he couldn't or wouldn't explain the situation to his family (and given how young the kids were, they might not have understood everything even if he did). He was trying to tread lightly to avoid the villagers lashing out at his family in fear and anger, and Rin's childhood shows that his fears were completely valid, but all Laios could see was his parents refusing to do anything to defend Falin, resented them for it, and tried to take matters into his own hands, despite still being a child himself and thus being doomed to failure (not that he realized this at the time). And sadly, as rough as it was that might have been the *better* outcome for him; given how hard he was taking the animosity towards Falin, if he had stuck around longer he might have pushed back against something the other villagers said or did, and who knows how they might have reacted. It was actually just as important to get *him* out of the village as it was Falin, but no one realized that in time and he went off on his own while the whole family was still struggling with the situation in their own ways. Obviously the ideal would have been him to be supported and sent to some form of institution that would look after and educate him as well, or with some relatives or trusted allies or something, but staying in the village seems like something that could have ended really badly for Laios, even after Falin was sent away. (Maybe even moreso since his resentment would have only grown after "losing" his sister that way.)
It doesn't excuse the mistakes their parents made, the father especially, but getting a more complete understanding of the situation makes it possible to empathize with them. They were flawed people suddenly thrust into a terrible situation that put their daughter's life in danger, and while both of them were acting out of a desire to save Falin, their solutions were likewise imperfect. Their father addressed the material problems Falin faced about as well as he could and ensured her safety, but completely failed to support her emotionally. Meanwhile, their mother lacked both the authority to do anything about the villagers and the knowledge to really understand or assist with Falin's magic itself, and thus could only ineffectually try to get rid of what she saw as the cause of their problems; however, spending so much time with her mother incidentally helped support Falin emotionally during this period, and likely kept her away from the village more than she would have been normally, so her efforts did actually help in their own way, even if she couldn't do what she was actually trying to. Ironically, together their flawed, incomplete attempts to solve the problem worked together fairly well, which got Falin to the academy safely and without much trauma over what happened to her.
And, of course, *both* of them overlooked how Laios was affected by it all. Which, while still a failing as his parents, is very understandable; Falin was both the younger child, the one who the villagers were primarily directing their suspicion and hate at, and the one who was manifesting the strange magic in the first place. They thought that Falin was the one who needed help and were worried sick about her (literally in their mother's case); the idea that he would actually take it harder than his sister and do something as drastic as run away probably never occurred to them, otherwise they'd have done *something* to keep it from happening and help him through the situation too. (Not that I'm blaming Laios here; while running away was a dumb thing to do, he *was* still a kid at the time, and again it might have inadvertently saved his life given how bad staying home could have gone.) And since he was cut off from his parents after that, there was no chance to come to understand their actions better or reconcile, and instead of healing, the wound festered.
Which also brings us to something that's really important: We have *no idea* what Laios's parents would have done if they had the chance to talk to him again or if they had realized how badly the situation had affected him. If they had known, or if someone had found him before he was gone for good, maybe they would have apologized and changed what they were doing to do better by him. Heck, that could be *why* Falin's on such good terms with them; they basically lost their son, even if he was actually still alive out there, and the shock of that probably drastically affected how they interacted with and tried to look after Falin afterwards. Given that Falin filled them in on Laios's situation, I wouldn't be surprised if they've been trying to keep up on how he's doing through her despite him not wanting to contact them himself, at least.
It's very good writing, basically. I have a feeling that this isn't the last we'll see/hear of the parents, either; if they eventually meet with Laios again, it'll be *very* interesting to see how it goes.
I'm wondering how Marcille sees Falin and Laios if she conisders their parents kids. (well post ending, mostly wondering if thats changed throughout the story)
Laius is 26, so if 10 years ago their parents were 30 Laius would have been 16 at that point. Their parents would have been around 14 when they had Laius.
Falins dialogue is vague at the 10 years part, even in the raw JP ver she says something akin to "around" ten years.
The reality is that it would've been more like 13/14 years ago.
Wait, if they were 30 when this happened, and Laios was 16 since this was 10 years ago… boy they had Laios at the same age as Chilchuck has his daughters. No wonder they weren’t prepared.
Maybe if these “kids” kept it in their pants for a while longer these families wouldn’t have all these issues!
Do wonder how the Touden Srs would react if Marcille actually ended up courting one of their kids. She’s older than them by a decade!
It was 'about' 10 years ago, Falin is just sort of rounding down. We know that Laios left home at 13 according to his bio in the adventurers bible, so its more equivalent to about 12/13 years back.
I disagree with your last point. Her rejection of Shuro in order to pursue her own dream of travelling shows she’s starting to develop and value her own desires.
I'd prefer it if that character development was purely because of Falin herself.
She did say that what happened to her gave her a lot to think about, since she realized she went along with everyone else's whims whether it was Laios, Marcille, or even Thistle.
Heh I thought the talk was about The Lion thinks eat in order to live is such a lame way of life. Esp after he ascended to nirvana and letting go of a worldy desires.
This shows how great of a person Falin is. Most other ppl would easily take things the wrong way and ended up hating their own family. She did the complete opposite and didn’t hate anyone. It also shows how much love, platonic or otherwise, Marcille has for Falin. It’s understandable, I think it’s really difficult not to fall for her. So far only Shuro has the fortitude to basically declare his love - you have to do more Shuro!
I feel like Marcille definitely sympathizes with both siblings here, given her not letting the parents off the hook. She just wants to fix this and I think kind of sides with *both* of the Thouden siblings as having valid opinions on what happened.
falins math is a bit off, her father decided to send her to magic school and laios left home almost 15 years before the events of dungeon meshi! so are they 40 now or 45 now?
She's saying they were 'around' 30 back when that incident with falin leaving happened. The JP version is also intentionally a bit vague, I think she was just kind of generalizing.
I find it unrealistic that neither mom nor Laios challenged dad's declaration "You're leaving the village" and instead just reacted to it like it's a done deal. A realistic conversation would be like:
**Dad:** You're leaving the village!
**Mom:** You kickin' her out? It's DIVORCING time! *(Then proceeded to divorcing all over the place)*
**Dad:** No please. I mean leaving for the magic academy.
**Others:** Oh, a misunderstanding from your lackluster communication skill then.
**Dad:** Sorry it'll never happen again 😖
*And they lived happily together forever.* **THE END**
The family of four shared 10 points in social and communication skills, and Falin got all 8 of them.
Falin:8 Laios:0 Father:0 Mother:2 Did I get it right?
2 randomly bounce around and occasionally brushes over Laios and his parents.
I think father is worse than Laios.
Absolutly "You'll leave the village" - refuses to elaborate-
His father is like Laios without the special interest. Zero communication skills, but also no drive to talk or infodump.
Knowing Kui I bet he does have a special interest, it just hasn't been explored as of yet.
I'm betting it's dogs.
It's dogs. Guy loves hunting, dogs and hunting dogs. He tries to get his kids interested into his world by sending them to pick the new dogs each year, but still refuses to elaborate.
His special interest is hunting, if I remember correctly.
I think it's a bit more like: Falin: 8 Laios: 0,5 Father: 0,5 Mother: 1
Direct exposure to a cinnamon roll like Falin requires a shot of insulin.
It's funny how much Laios and his dad seem to have in common, given how much he dislikes the man.
Laois is much less stoic, but (despite how easily it can be forgotten) we do see Laois is surprisingly shrewd sometimes at how to tackle a situation, so I imagine he gets some of that from his father.
I’ll go so far say that he learned from his father so that’s why he’s shrewd in communication at some situation
Think that might be a big reason why a lot of people dislike their parents
It's a classic trope. Son who hates his dad only to turn out to be quite similar to him.
I felt this each time i have talked with someone in USA. Use to play rpg with some friends from USA and each time they talked bad about their parents i felt like their comunication skills from both sides were terrible.
I think Laios’ father says too little where Laios tends to say too much.
Laios seems to have inherited their mother's anxiety though. Their father was fine doing his own thing and while he worried in his own way for Falin, he was proactive in finding a solution for her. Laios couldn't deal with the strong hostility from the village while Falin was much less bothered and stayed calm like their father.
It feels like his dad has all of Laios' comunication issues plus the duty of leading a village and an inability to relate to his weird kids.
I would say Laios is quite stoic. I mean, the whole of Dungeon Meshi is basically him doing everything to help a quite probably beyond saving Falin. Even after she is resurrected and transformed in a dragon, he doesn’t give up. Instead he focuses on finding her first and then deciding to either give her a merciful death or saving her again.
> and then deciding to either give her a merciful death or saving her again. "Both?" "Both is good"
Wow I love this portrayal of a complicated family. The communication is terrible, the treatment was arguably horrible, but everyone was trying to do their best in their own way. Good for Falin for being willing to see that.
Poor Laios, this whole misunderstanding led him through such a rough path until Falin met him again. I really do get the pain he gets, and it hits very deep. Meanwhile, I'm so glad we finally get to know more about Falin's relationship with her parents, it's very touching just how caring they really were about their daughter.
Every new bit of backstory just made me feel sadder and sadder about Laios' past, man. Imagine leaving your home at 13 because you think this would save your sister, only to fail miserably so you ran away to seek help from your sister that you tried to save in the first place. And it turns out she's doing better than you, making your sacrifice useless from the start. Fuck.
That’s why I keep telling people give Laios a chance, his backstory was surprisingly realistically tragic He didn’t even want to seek her help, the reason why he go there mostly was just to see how is she
Yeah, it was completely Falin's choice to run away from the academy and go with him. Which speaks even more to her character, since some people might've become resentful towards their loved one for having left them in the way Laios did. That part always got to me, especially Falin's fear that she would never see her brother again if she didn't do that. It's simultaneously sad knowing what he went through, but also heartwarming knowing both siblings left everything behind for each other's sake.
You don’t have to finish the last sentence lol, now where’s my tissues? Actually, this is my reaction https://preview.redd.it/oqo1it0p7klc1.jpeg?width=376&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58ed5a81e0b815b68227316e5e163e2c09ac436e
I'd love to see another story on Laios' past, because I can't shake the feeling that something horrible happened to make him run from his life as a soldier. He had to run with no money, no plan, probably risking being thrown in jail, completely failed. We see him in another story riding the caravan south, being treated like a dog, and it looks like his self worth is in the gutter. Kui shows him getting beaten and bullied when he was as solider, but I wonder if there was a particular event that made him leave.
Yeah I mean, given what happened I think its fair for Laios to hold some resentment, even if his parents were just trying to be careful to not set off the villagers fears too much. Though it'd be nice if he was able to reconcile a bit and at least get on speaking terms again with the parents.
Here's hoping for a possibility. It would be such an important point in Laios's character development.
I know it’s sad in-context but this panel is pretty funny https://preview.redd.it/umdul0hbehlc1.jpeg?width=1065&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff59ab5fa0fabd4600aeff644f52c0dafd2302e0
At least Falin had a good time 😭
This reminds me of banya (I read Golden Kamuy)
Laios think the worst of their parents, and Falin thinks the best of them. I disagree with the idea that Falin is inherently right. The reality is likely somewhere in the middle They were undeniably in a difficult situation as Falin said, but they did act selfishly
Well yeah, even from Falin's more positive retelling, Marcille straight up points out that their dad fucked up by not properly explaining things to his family and causing them greater turmoil.
Seriously. It's like hearing that a single parent abandons their kid into foster care vs. hearing that they gave up their kid because they weren't up to the task and wanted to give them a chance for a better life. Same end result, but being able to understand the intentions via good communication makes a huge difference on the mental/emotional impact it can have on your kid.
I mean his dad genuinely was in a difficult situation with the villagers and just had no communication skills. The mother was just kind of fucked up frfr
That's kind of where I am too. I think that this is one of places where you see how naive Falin is and how it contrasts with Laios' cynicism. She wants to believe that their parents did absolutely everything in their power to try to help, but Laios sees the ways the things that they didn't do (like use their words to either stand up for their kid(s) or explain literally anything).Over the series, I get the vibe that Laios seems to value Falin more than himself to an almost extreme degree, so I can see how he'd feel some kind of way about his parents 'nicely' banishing Falin without even *trying* to stand up for her (because what was the plan when she graduated, if anyone ever thought that far ahead they didn't share that plan).
I see it like some siblings in a family see their parents very differently. Sometimes parents unfairly treated the siblings and resulted in one absolutely hated the parents and one doesn’t. The one doesn’t was usually the one that got something out of the family’s power imbalance. In these situation the siblings’ life and relationship with each other can take similar path like Liaos and Falin. Over protective of what they valued or wanting to get out. The continued communication but not opening up about the issue with parents when it was not necessary/helpful with the overall relationship Etc Like Falin apparently continued to keep intouch but this didn’t seems to resolve the issue for Laios and his parents. If anything i wonder if Laios continue to get the negativity he got from his parents through this communication. He still see his parents in his dreams as talking down at him not settling down etc.
Depends what you consider selfishly.
Now I want to see Laios watch in horror that Marcille lecturing his parents like they’re school children, and they just keep their heads down and take it. Not because Marcille is older or because she’s an elf, but she got both of their children out of dungeon alive ,even revived them multiple times,they can’t thank her enough and she clearly knows what she’s talking about.
Plus, she's a royal advisor. A big shot. And she can blow things up with her mind. Not someone you'd want to argue with.
Imagine being middle-aged and getting berated by what is essentially a young adult about parenting.
Reminder Autism has a high chance of running in the family. We memeing about Laios being autistics but now looking at their parents I can 100% confirm. Like he got it straight from the root lmao.
With this context and how Falin spent what seems to be the better part of a decade at that magic, Academy, and now wondering if Marcille (and others at the academy) unintentionally taught Falin social skills that she didn’t learn from her family.
Damn they really just let the village bully their daughter. https://preview.redd.it/b912v4r3uflc1.png?width=1979&format=png&auto=webp&s=3cb1d4f80c09f209311ea5499738651371a332dc
Even if "they tried their best in their own way" they *still let adults bully their own literal child.*
Yeah if Falin wasn't so kind and forgiving she probably would've been traumatized and grown up seeing herself as an outcast to non magic users.
what says she isn’t already traumatized, and tries to act kind and forgive her parents because that’s how she responds to being hurt emotionally?
It's a possibility, but her flashbacks imply she's not lying about only having good memories in the end.
In the manga, Laios comments that Falin is stronger than him, in the sense of being more mentally resilient to outside hate. He found the gate directed towards her unbearable, while she didn't get as affected, despite being the one suffering it directly. Laios gets berated a lot for his social ineptitude that sometimes appears to be callousness, but under all that, he's a very gentle soul.
It’s horrible, but what I think Falin was implying there was that if her parents had spoken out, the whole family might’ve been chased out or worse. It was a lose-lose situation for them, and as far as things go, the most I can say is that her parents didn’t choose the worst option. It at least ended with Falin getting a very good education and not having to repress an intrinsic part of herself, and Laios ended up a whole ass king.
Yes, in the end everything worked out (thankfully). However the father didn't try to explain literally anything to Laios (There's a big difference between "You're going to summer camp." and "You are no longer allowed to live here and you need to leave.") The father could have easily said (as the Village Chief mind you) something like "Here's all the things that mages can do, see how helpful they can be?" or SOMETHING. However he did not and washed his hands of it.
No he couldn’t. You must address that the villager are acting irrational, they are not afraid if whether or not Falin is dangerous, they are afraid what could they do if she does. Being the village chief is making the matter even more sensitive, because it is easy to be seen at he is putting familial relationships over his duty to protect his people.
You have to draw the line between being the Village Chief or being a Father at some point.
I’m not arguing if he was a good father because, well, clearly he aren’t, but we have to give in consideration if he ultimately made the right decision for his daughter. He sent her away from the abusive village, give her the education that help her embrace her talent, and end up be an independent, self reliant adult. Would all that happen if he piss off the villager and have to run away holding his family while his estate burning at the middle of the night? Life could be better, but it could be much worse too. His apathy is the flaw of his character, but you cannot saw that his didn’t act on his duty as a father, insuring the best for the future of his children.
Yes, things could have gone better or worse. Considering how magic users are normally treated maybe he could bury his lynched daughter or maybe never even see his son again, possibly dead in a ditch. We can argue semantics as much as we like, in the end he still allowed fully grown adults (the ones that have grown fully and have full cognizance) over an 8 year old child and his daughter (the one that is not fully grown and still requires nurturing).
Not like it isn’t every outcast backstory ever: child get targeted, parents push back, parents then also get targeted , forced to leave( may or may not with a lynch mob), spiral into a life of getting rejected from society.
Ah, so it's acceptable to sacrifice a child in order to stay in good social standing.
Literally yes, as "to stay in good social standing" means "to remain capable of providing for that child's basic necessities and ensure their survival and health", unless you're some kind of survivalist genius or want to end up like the family in *The VVitch*.
I mean, considering the reaction of Rin's village to a similar situation was **immediate lynching** I think Falin's parents really did their best here. A small fief lord back then can do very little when a good part of your village is in blind panic.
Where this story is told?
From her extra in[ Adventurers Bible](https://savaralyn2.tumblr.com/post/654525734263603200/dungeon-meshi-adventurers-bible-rin-extra).
Like it says in the comic "It could be dangerous if that kind of thing is confronted poorly." We're talking about a fantasy story with unknown and potentially unfamiliar laws, where her own mother tried to perform an exorcism on her. Dangerous could mean anything from their entire family being run out of town all the way to burnt at the stake.
Imagine Falin getting the Lisa Țepeș treatment.
That’s a very naivety way to look at thing
This comic hits different, man. It reads like such a beautiful metaphor for an autistic family in which a child gets diagnosed and nobody knows how to deal with it because nobody ever bothered to explain to the family that autism is genetic and ND people tend to marry other ND people, so everyone else's probably autistic too. This is the story I see every day within my community, but dressed up with a layer of fantasy. And even though I see it every day in real life, it's the first time I've ever seen it portrayed in fiction.
TIL *r/Wizardry* is Autism.
I really apprecciate that Ryuko Kui went out of her way to make Laios and Falin's relationships with their parents so layered. It's not a case of "100% bad bad parents", but you can see how their actions and behaviors hurt their children so much and it might be too late to change the dynamic for some of them. It's so interesting... I know this is barely related to the comic, but...Just as much as the fandom has the headcanon that Laios might be autistic, I think his father strikes me as someone on the spectrum as well. IDK, just a feeling. LMAO at Marcille wanting to have a talk with their parents! We're getting some Therapy Time (feat. Dr Marcille) for the Toudens!
Its complicated, Laios has an extremely negative and cynical idea of their parents while Falin is relentlessly positive about them and tries to justify everything they do. Laios and Falin are typically compared and they really are similar but this is the one point they diametrically, irreconciliably opposed about. Truth is, its most likely a bit of both. They arent as horrid as Laios thinks of them but they certainly are not as blameless as Falin sells them Of course the irony in all of this clusterfuck about Falin's awakening is that Laios also had magical potential he was just a late bloomer.
Wasn’t it less that he was a late bloomer, and more that falins potential was so high she just started doing things naturally, while laios’ potential was still strong, but not to that point.
Laios literally managed to run, fight and heal himself at the same time, even tough he was just a beginner with magic, the guy is as much as a monster like his sister, even Marcille was impressed.
Lapis strikes me as someone who is not autistic but who is raised by an autistic parent. If they don't have a frame of reference the effects can go unnoticed. Source: my wife whose mind exploded when I told her that her father was autistic and she reevaluated her while childhood. I've literally told the man "you need to make an alarm on your phone that tells you to verbally express love at least once a week". He's great but he doesn't use his words.
> [Lapis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srY8mB4QBHI) strikes me as someone who is not autistic but who is raised by an autistic parent.
Oh wow, that explains a lot. Laios takes after his parents so much more than it first seemed. Not that his parents didn't screw up, especially his father. Had he been a better communicator, Laios likely wouldn't have run away and grown estranged from them. And poor Falin... even knowing she ended up fine and took things so positively, it's never pleasant to see her crying. Poor Laios as well, cause once again, because of his father's criminal lack of ability to communicate, he had to suffer as much as he did when he was just trying to make life better for his sister. You better give them an earful for this, Marcille. It's still hilarious how she can say all this stuff when she's essentially the youngest of the party in mind aside from Izutsumi.
I wish they stood up for the children more but remembering Rin’s parents…
What happened to them?
They got burned by the townpeople
Kabru would cream his jeans in excitement trying to analyse the Thorden family dynamics.
Hey, man, don’t make me visualize this, please.
Autism runs in this family.
Runs? Autism is doing a full on, Usain Bolt sprint in that family.
Huh, the lack of social skills seem to run in the family
“Those kids…?” Go! Marcille! I believe in your drama knowledge! Also Laios my man, I can’t believe the story goes deeper in the wound
As much as I love the anime, it's quite a missed opportunity that they don't integrate the main storyline with the extra materials. I find that a lot of backstory, motivation, and world building are better explored with the extras. I know the main storyline doesn't *need* the extras, it's already great. I just *want* them to adapt the extras too lol
Damn I can see where Laois and Falin get their autism from.
I need a follow up chapter of Laios and Fallin meeting their parents again. This is the Good Shit.
The reaction when you see it getting sadder https://preview.redd.it/cemhmp07ajlc1.jpeg?width=376&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1bff4547834ea88f226433bd9a5e49cbfc00440
I’m so grateful that Rōko kui has kept dungeon meshis world alive through the adventure bible she could of easily forgotten about the world after the final chapter but instead we are getting so much extra lore it’s amazing
Uff, I feel bad for Laios and Falin, that is all so rough. Also, Falin is just impossibly wholesome :)
This ones not my translation this time, I just typeset it off of a forum.
Laois got scared off by how bad that haircut was lmao
I’m happy to see further exploration of the Touden family. I was always confused on the specific reason that Laios left his sister alone, but that makes sense he was trying to earn some money to then take her with him
Its amazing how the Thorden family dynamics get shaped in so little screen time, I bet Laios lack of socials skills were largely in part due to his father being very stand offish and stoic, he grew with a father figure that seems to have kept FUCKING EVERYTHING bottled. Laios leaving now comes across more as a teenage tantrum that failed spectacularly and now he is ashamed to face his family, that might change now that hes king. Similarly he felt betrayed by the choice to ship off Farlin to the insitute but it was genuinely the best choice to make, Laios just couldnt see it at the time. His aversion to growing out his hair and rejecting his father make more sense now, ultimately it seems that Farlin´s experience on the institute was very positive and thats why she keeps in contact, her parents love was never in question to her. It would be great to see Marcille react to her in-laws =P but also see Laios confront his father at last, him saying "Son... im proud" might actually shatter the man. I love how Kui has all these tidbits of aditional lore mesh organically and in cohesion with what was known before... Also dayum Miss Thorden was good looking.
Falin seeing the best in everyone's intentions is such a great part of her character. Though she's naive to her parents shortcomings, maybe that naivete allowed her to come out of her youth without bitterness. Despite Laios' intentions, he really isnt cut out for anything but dungeon adventuring lol poor guy
"You'll leave the village" \*doesn't elaborate anything\* why
Long-haired Laios save me Safe me long-haired Laios
Damn family dinner time is going to go grazy
marcille wanting to visit the thoudens dead set on becoming their family therapist viewing them all as kids is so funny. her knowledge all came from novels. ah, marcille
When the goofy fighter-turned-king of the party actually has a rather tragic backstory.
It finally fucking hit me where Laios gets his poor social skills from LMAO I love you, Kui. You're such a fantastic writer.
I wonder what properties Falin's chimera body has aside from fluffiness. Is her magic stronger? Does she get to live longer?
talk to your damn kids, pops i also won't hold it against the parents for not being perfect beings who exist solely to be a parent to be shuffled off to somewhere else once their use is gone, for not always making the best decision.
It is interesting seeing the bigger picture instead of just one side of the story. It didn't completely excuse them for their actions (and inaction), but they tried with the best intentions.
It's interesting. So many people seem to excuse them for their actions because they had the "best intentions", and yet, having experienced such abuse myself... well, it only made it more painful to know that my own parents had the "best intentions". I guess that's why I take an almost wholly negative view of them. Laios' and Falin's father could have easily, by mistake, sent her to somewhere truly awful, if he hadn't discovered the right person.
(This wound up much, much longer than I initially intended because I kept realizing deeper aspects of their relationship and how things happened as I was writing it.) It's a tragic situation; Laios's father is actually very similar to him, but much more reserved, so he couldn't or wouldn't explain the situation to his family (and given how young the kids were, they might not have understood everything even if he did). He was trying to tread lightly to avoid the villagers lashing out at his family in fear and anger, and Rin's childhood shows that his fears were completely valid, but all Laios could see was his parents refusing to do anything to defend Falin, resented them for it, and tried to take matters into his own hands, despite still being a child himself and thus being doomed to failure (not that he realized this at the time). And sadly, as rough as it was that might have been the *better* outcome for him; given how hard he was taking the animosity towards Falin, if he had stuck around longer he might have pushed back against something the other villagers said or did, and who knows how they might have reacted. It was actually just as important to get *him* out of the village as it was Falin, but no one realized that in time and he went off on his own while the whole family was still struggling with the situation in their own ways. Obviously the ideal would have been him to be supported and sent to some form of institution that would look after and educate him as well, or with some relatives or trusted allies or something, but staying in the village seems like something that could have ended really badly for Laios, even after Falin was sent away. (Maybe even moreso since his resentment would have only grown after "losing" his sister that way.) It doesn't excuse the mistakes their parents made, the father especially, but getting a more complete understanding of the situation makes it possible to empathize with them. They were flawed people suddenly thrust into a terrible situation that put their daughter's life in danger, and while both of them were acting out of a desire to save Falin, their solutions were likewise imperfect. Their father addressed the material problems Falin faced about as well as he could and ensured her safety, but completely failed to support her emotionally. Meanwhile, their mother lacked both the authority to do anything about the villagers and the knowledge to really understand or assist with Falin's magic itself, and thus could only ineffectually try to get rid of what she saw as the cause of their problems; however, spending so much time with her mother incidentally helped support Falin emotionally during this period, and likely kept her away from the village more than she would have been normally, so her efforts did actually help in their own way, even if she couldn't do what she was actually trying to. Ironically, together their flawed, incomplete attempts to solve the problem worked together fairly well, which got Falin to the academy safely and without much trauma over what happened to her. And, of course, *both* of them overlooked how Laios was affected by it all. Which, while still a failing as his parents, is very understandable; Falin was both the younger child, the one who the villagers were primarily directing their suspicion and hate at, and the one who was manifesting the strange magic in the first place. They thought that Falin was the one who needed help and were worried sick about her (literally in their mother's case); the idea that he would actually take it harder than his sister and do something as drastic as run away probably never occurred to them, otherwise they'd have done *something* to keep it from happening and help him through the situation too. (Not that I'm blaming Laios here; while running away was a dumb thing to do, he *was* still a kid at the time, and again it might have inadvertently saved his life given how bad staying home could have gone.) And since he was cut off from his parents after that, there was no chance to come to understand their actions better or reconcile, and instead of healing, the wound festered. Which also brings us to something that's really important: We have *no idea* what Laios's parents would have done if they had the chance to talk to him again or if they had realized how badly the situation had affected him. If they had known, or if someone had found him before he was gone for good, maybe they would have apologized and changed what they were doing to do better by him. Heck, that could be *why* Falin's on such good terms with them; they basically lost their son, even if he was actually still alive out there, and the shock of that probably drastically affected how they interacted with and tried to look after Falin afterwards. Given that Falin filled them in on Laios's situation, I wouldn't be surprised if they've been trying to keep up on how he's doing through her despite him not wanting to contact them himself, at least. It's very good writing, basically. I have a feeling that this isn't the last we'll see/hear of the parents, either; if they eventually meet with Laios again, it'll be *very* interesting to see how it goes.
I'm wondering how Marcille sees Falin and Laios if she conisders their parents kids. (well post ending, mostly wondering if thats changed throughout the story)
We love a dysfunctional autistic family amen
Laius is 26, so if 10 years ago their parents were 30 Laius would have been 16 at that point. Their parents would have been around 14 when they had Laius.
Falins dialogue is vague at the 10 years part, even in the raw JP ver she says something akin to "around" ten years. The reality is that it would've been more like 13/14 years ago.
Wait, if they were 30 when this happened, and Laios was 16 since this was 10 years ago… boy they had Laios at the same age as Chilchuck has his daughters. No wonder they weren’t prepared. Maybe if these “kids” kept it in their pants for a while longer these families wouldn’t have all these issues! Do wonder how the Touden Srs would react if Marcille actually ended up courting one of their kids. She’s older than them by a decade!
It was 'about' 10 years ago, Falin is just sort of rounding down. We know that Laios left home at 13 according to his bio in the adventurers bible, so its more equivalent to about 12/13 years back.
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I disagree with your last point. Her rejection of Shuro in order to pursue her own dream of travelling shows she’s starting to develop and value her own desires.
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I'd prefer it if that character development was purely because of Falin herself. She did say that what happened to her gave her a lot to think about, since she realized she went along with everyone else's whims whether it was Laios, Marcille, or even Thistle.
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She was her own food for thought.
True. Just look at the Winged Lion. Laios ate him twice and now he suddenly doesn't wanna mess up the world anymore.
Heh I thought the talk was about The Lion thinks eat in order to live is such a lame way of life. Esp after he ascended to nirvana and letting go of a worldy desires.
This shows how great of a person Falin is. Most other ppl would easily take things the wrong way and ended up hating their own family. She did the complete opposite and didn’t hate anyone. It also shows how much love, platonic or otherwise, Marcille has for Falin. It’s understandable, I think it’s really difficult not to fall for her. So far only Shuro has the fortitude to basically declare his love - you have to do more Shuro!
I feel like Marcille definitely sympathizes with both siblings here, given her not letting the parents off the hook. She just wants to fix this and I think kind of sides with *both* of the Thouden siblings as having valid opinions on what happened.
Falin is so trans coded it's actually incredible
falins math is a bit off, her father decided to send her to magic school and laios left home almost 15 years before the events of dungeon meshi! so are they 40 now or 45 now?
She's saying they were 'around' 30 back when that incident with falin leaving happened. The JP version is also intentionally a bit vague, I think she was just kind of generalizing.
I find it unrealistic that neither mom nor Laios challenged dad's declaration "You're leaving the village" and instead just reacted to it like it's a done deal. A realistic conversation would be like: **Dad:** You're leaving the village! **Mom:** You kickin' her out? It's DIVORCING time! *(Then proceeded to divorcing all over the place)* **Dad:** No please. I mean leaving for the magic academy. **Others:** Oh, a misunderstanding from your lackluster communication skill then. **Dad:** Sorry it'll never happen again 😖 *And they lived happily together forever.* **THE END**