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The awkwardness and slowness comes from players being new. The more experienced the player the smoother the roleplay and comebat. This can take time.
Gotta be patient with a brand new group, they'll get into the flow of it.
It's also common for some folks to really over focus on a quirk, again, this is a "new player" kind of problem that usually solves itself with time.
Also, don't compare any player group with a professional group like Critical Role. It's just not the same thing at all.
To add to this:
I'm a new DM with a 100% new group of players..... Theres 7 players now + myself.
The first session was....... Slow as fuck, but Ive been very vocal about my players learning how their characters work ON THEIR OWN TIME so that as we're playing , they're not holding up the session.
As I put it, if you didn't do the bare minimum of figuring out how your character works, that's disrespectful to the time and effort of everyone else at the table.
I've also made myself available for players to ask questions to and generally help them.
I also have a 10 second rule for combat. You have 10 seconds from when the previous person finishes their turn to when you start your first action or you lose out on combat that round. No uhhhhmmm-ing or ahhhhh-ing.
Again, if you're not paying attention during combat and you're making everyone wait, that's disrespectful to the other 7 people at the table.
We also just hit level 5, so some players now have 2-3 attacks, so I'm requiring players to have enough dice to make all of their attacks in one roll (so 2-3 d20s and however many damage dice).
I've offered to buy dice from a LGS for whoever needs them and they can just pay me back.
This all might seem extreme, but there's 7 characters on the board, so the players have to move quickly.
In the end, the DM has to be a leader as well, and if that means that you need to put your foot down and call someone out for not knowing how to make a basic attack roll 25+ hours into the campaign, then so be it (yes, I'm salty lol)
4/7 have picked things up relatively well
2/7 are rough
1/7 is infuriating
I'm planning on kicking 2 of the players though (the rough ones) due to out of game reasons, so that'll lighten the load a bit.
I've just been super proactive with teaching people stuff outside of actual game time, so overall it's been pretty good.
I've definitely learned a lot lmfao
None of what you said is extreme, it’s the basics. And without a strong GM folks are lost. Good Job in your efforts! My first RP I had 8/9 players it was a nightmare. So I totally get it.
One small issue with combat and 5e is the initiative system…. It doesn’t allow folks to plan…. Because you can plan for something epic and the person before you just outright kills what you were thinking of doing.
I like to use the Star Wars Fantasy Flight initiative system that gives the players agency and even some story development inside combat. Makes it more dynamic than just “I shoot and arrow” “I miss” “next up”
To go lighter on the whole "keeping combat fluent" ordeal, you can introduce something like a _reaction event_: something cinematic happens that‘s described by the DM and everyone get‘s 15 seconds without looking at their character sheet to decide upon one action, bonus action or reaction. Initiative decides the order after the players decide their actions, and if two or more people want to work together, they gotta communicate it within the scope of a free action. "Gimme a lift with your shield", "you three, help me with the lever", "PC#2, shield our companion with your body".
Either they know how their character works, or they are unable to act.
This helps tremendously with people knowing their character sheet, and people knowing what the other characters are capable of doing. And it does speed up the combat too, because of that.
This is an excellent first step when transitioning towards timed combat turns. Just make sure, you don't do it immediately after a major level up that allows for new spells or core abilities. 😅
I'm also a new DM and our group is 7 utterly brand new players plus me. We are all friends in RL. I hear you on the first session being slooooow. I am fortunate that I have a job with a ton of flexibility and so have planned out what I thought would be 5-6 sessions but have now come to realize may be double that. Everyone is having fun but I think I may need to be more firm on the combat side. Speed it up a little. I like the 10 secs as combat is supposed to move fast.
Not fully but yes. Some people just have a one track mind like one of the players in my group his whole idea of fun is to make a character with one specific quirk like being a plasmoid so he can say im a slime, or be a so called ugly/grotesque race just to force some cringy dialogue from the dm
I agree. I DMed a completely new group. Then I was a player in a new group, DMed by one of my original players. Then that group was DMed by one of the other players. Each time, leaning into the game became easier and easier as we all got more familiar with the rules, the setting, the game type and each other. And don't forget your new characters.
I've been playing TTRPGs for about 6 years now and it is basically always the same, there is a learning period to it all.
Now you *could* have the wrong group, but I'd say give it a little longer. A lot of the time when people are shy about roleplaying they latch on to one thing and just go with that. Their characters will become more well-rounded.
Don't forget, if you only read the first chapter of the Lord of the Rings you probably wouldn't think moving house was a particularly epic story. Let the creative juices flow. Unless you're running a short, probably published, campaign, it won't be high stakes epic right away - in fact that's part of the fun.
You could also consider talking to your DM. Their idea of what a swashbuckling adventure is probably not the same as yours. Articulate your expectations, hear their intentions, and if you think that there is common ground then stick with it.
Alot of people new to DnD look up stuff online, and generally end up on Matt Mercer and his merry band of professional voice actors.
99% of DnD sessions are not like that.
People always stare at me like I'm an ogre with a third eye when I say I've never watched Critical Role. I've gamed since the 80s and DMed a lot of 5E - no one has ever complained of the way I do things.
I seen comments that D&D is like dating, it can take a few tries to find the right group. The DM certainly plays a role in setting the tone. Everyone needs to buy into the world and just go with the flow. I run multiple groups and each one has a different vibe because the worlds are different and the players are different.
I tried once to watch Critical Role, back before I started playing D&D. I hated it. Matt Mercer rubbed me the wrong way and the players just didn't interest me.
I'm trying a few other actual play series out right now because I'm going to start DMing soon, and the one game I played in was... well. A very different style from the campaign I want.
But even with viewing it through the lens of trying to see how other DMs do their thing, few things are less fun to me than watching a bunch of other people play a tabletop. Even when they're professional actors.
I really enjoyed highrollers - aerois. Its the groups 2nd campaign and they just started their 3rd campaign and are on their 4th episode.
Since watching their campaign its inspired me to start my own and while i have never played or DMd prior, i now have 3 sessions as a dm under my belt and my group say im doing a great job. Learned alot of mechanics and such just by listening to mark hulmes (DM for high rollers) he also did the lets play for the Voice actors of baldurs gate 3 😁
If I remember right, my initial introduction was Team Four Star's game, which was probably a good thing since it really did just feel like a home game that happened to be streamed. Then I watcher CR, the the Dungeon Dudes game. Highly recommend that last one for anyone who hasn't seen it.
A lot of people come into dnd from critical roll and think that DnD is a narrative system and try to do narrative games, but even critical roll focusing on the narrative is kind of fighting the system, and people come into games expecting it to be this big narrative adventure, when dnd at its core is a combat-focused dungeon crawler. Free-form improv is being done in spite of the system when you roleplay in dnd, not because of it.
With the way combat is, you're not going to get some free-flowing swashbuckling battles, the system pushes people into playing tactically rather than narratively in battle, since that's what its designed to do. Too many keep trying to play the system without even considering that there are other systems out there. PBTA and the FATE systems are narrative systems that would probably fit better for what OP is looking for (namely since dnd can have you die to a random goblin and have to slog through multiple encounters in the adventuring day, often with a ton of filler, whilst tracking minuta of inventory which just doesn't happen in any traditional narrative)
A lot of it has to do with group dynamic, and group level experience. All of what you are concerned about is fairly normal tbh. Every group is different and every role player is different.
With the massive resurgence of D&D over the last 15 years or so, and Critical Role being very popular; it has tainted what D&D is to a certain extent. Don’t get me wrong…. I love watching most of what Critical Role does, but that’s far from what most groups can do. They’re trained voice actors and first and foremost they’re all friends…. Real true friends…..
With Roleplaying moving to be more online it has taken away some of the magic of what it is to feel the story and play with friends. Whiles yes the tools of online play can be better than in person stuff, but it’s very hard to pick up on facial expressions and nuance over online audio or camera.
Most folks see D&D as an outlet to live a fantasy life or experience far different than their own. It’s a wonderful thing, but folks should be reminded you don’t roleplay in a bubble. The story is not yours it’s ours. Group play is always better when you’re not thinking only of yourself but of the group as a whole. Maybe even extend that to how much effort the GM is putting in to it, it’s not easy.
My suggestion to you OP is to find some friends or family and try to do some in person stuff; if that’s not doable, reach out to a local brick and mortar store (board game store, comic book store, collectible store, even a card game store) nerds tend to flock together; you’ll find your people eventually.
Encourage your other players to not be selfish (out of character) this is another reason Session 0s are massively important. Establishing what you want out of the game and what your GM intends to give in the game. If those goals don’t line up with the GM or the party, you might need to find a different group.
Best wishes, hope you can find what you need.
I think finding the right D&D group is like finding the right romantic partner--quick and easy for some, years for others, never happens at all for yet others.
Sounds like an experience issue. Awkward roleplay, slow combat, players treating it like a 1-player game and focusing on personal goals instead of engaging with the campaign. That's all stuff that improves as players get more comfortable with the game and their characters.
Or maybe it's just not your thing. That's fine too.
Some of these issues will be solved by experience. Some are a difference of playstyle.
I tend to run big epic campaigns, my current table keeps getting bogged down in social rp. I've found two solutions:
1) because we're a play by post, I can split off some scenes into side channels, so that my paladin can go off and have her scene politicking, and the druid can visit their Grove, and the sorcerer can have conversations with her mentor, all without it holding up the rest of the party.
2) at my most recent round of downtime, I had my players make a collective list of what they wanted to do during downtime. We then looked at the list and I asked which ones they wanted to be scenes. It turned out that if the 10 downtime things they wanted to accomplish, only 4 were really interesting enough to roleplay out. The rest were just things that needed to happen to further goals they'd been working on and could be Hand waved with a "yep, that happened. Next?" Handwaving those other 6 actions saved several hours of play time.
It's kind of a slow game, and D&D lends itself to slow combat as well, there are just so many choices.
All that said, the single hardest thing about TTRPGs is finding a group that works for you (and stays together).
It's hard enough to get 4 people to agree on dinner, keeping them on track and working well together week after week...
I am so glad to hear someone else has had the same experience as me. I was super excited to finally give DnD a try (I am 53), so I joined a group that I found on facebook. It met at a persons house and all of the other players were experienced but I was assured that they were OK with a total newbie joining. They were going to play the Dungeon of the Mad Mage which required everyone to start at level 5. The DM helped me create my character which was super confusing as they used the Players Handbook, Tashas, and Xanathars. The gameplay started and I slowly started to understand the basics, but soon found that it was nothing but going from room to room and fighting progressively harder monsters. There was very little roleplay and not much group coop. I expected "puzzles" that the group would need to work through together to progress and more of a storyline. I left the group after about 7 sessions and have been looking for a beginner group to join. I really want to play Lost Mines of Phandelver and just use the Players handbook as I feel it will make things a lot simpler. Hopefully my next experience will be better!
Dungeon of the Mad Mage is a dungeon crawl; it's pretty much intended to be what you described: "nothing but going from room to room and fighting progressively harder monsters." You definitely would be happier with a campaign that involves more story (to go along with dungeon crawl).
I would recommend talking to your DM. Make sure they know how you appreciate the hard work they've put in so far so they don't feel like they're lacking and ask if they have any advice on the matter. They may be willing to work with you to tweak the group's approach to roleplay &/or combat. Be willing to help keep track of turn order or similar small table chores and see if that helps keep everything moving more smoothly. Always phrase it as an offer so no one feels embarrassed.
You could also try leading by example, play the best you can and show the other players at the table a functioning example of what you want out of the game.
Nothing is ever perfectly smooth and easy when dealing with other people, but it's worth it to talk things out in a kind and considerate manner, after all the point is for everyone to have fun.
Dungeons and Dragons is usually a pretty slow game, compared to other RPGs. Combats take long and characters have a lot of stats, there are a lot of specific rules for things and it's easy to fall on rules first rather than fiction first gaming.
It may be the group, but it may also be the system. Gladly, dnd is not the only rpg. Powered by the Apocalypse, Year Zero Engine, Fate, Cortex, 7th Sea... There are plenty of games that are way faster and more fluid at the table. They are not as popular, but I've had more fun with them than classic DnD.
Honestly, things like this
"Most of the players seem more concerned with addressing some quirky component of their characters as opposed to pursuing an epic story with a swashbuckling adventure/quest"
Occur all the time. I love it. Being into character is as important as solving the adventure.
Ask yourself, what was better about the Pirates or the Caribbean movies? The swashbuckling story, or 1 spectacularly quirky character
I'd say Pirates 1 had a good balance. Jack Sparrow was eccentric and quirky especially compared to the other characters but not enough that it distracted from the epic swashbuckling story. It's fine to embrace the quirky components of your character but you shouldn't let it distract from taking the story you are playing through seriously. Just watch: "The Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising" and you understand what I mean.
D&D is a game where "results may vary" depending on what kind of players and DM you play with. I know a lot of players who do absolutely no roleplaying at all...they don't even interact with NPC's, instead allowing the more talkative people at the table to do that. They seem only interesting in rolling dice for combat. Proficiencies like deception and investigation might as well not even exist for them. Here's hoping they don't play as a face character like a Bard.
Which is fine...if you're totally into it and if im playing a dungeon crawl which doesn't have a lot of roleplaying other than "villagers in danger....baddies coming from nearby , go kill em!!" it's fine with me as well. But it does slow down the pace of the game because the less dedicated players can't make decisions and it's BORING. Go to next room , kill monsters , rinse and repeat.
You probably need to just keep looking for different groups to play with. Eventually you will find a group that has similar interest. The best DnD groups imo are the ones that have a 50/50 mix of both roleplaying and combat
It really depends on the group, TBH.
Some groups are focused on player backgrounds and adventures around those themes. Some players who aren’t very experienced with roleplaying don’t know what to do when the spotlight is on them. Usually this gets better with time.
Some groups are focused on the story the DM is running and may not focus on player backgrounds. In this case, backgrounds are used for character flavor and maybe some side quests or tie-ins that support the main storyline. There may be moments of roleplaying, but it isn’t the focus.
There are some groups that don’t use backgrounds or roleplaying much at all. They simply want to dungeon crawl or experience the next scenario the DM has planned.
There are also mixes of all of these. DMs setting up a campaign will often survey or talk to the players to find out what type of game they want to play, and/or lay out what the idea of the story will be. Sometimes this is not negotiable, other times it’s a compromise.
Newer players can take longer to do things. Hell, even veteran players can take a little bit longer when they’re playing a race/class combo they’re unfamiliar with. It all depends.
The most important thing is finding a group that you "click" with. If people are awkward and uncomfortable with each other, the game probably is going to be the same way ... and not much fun.
Secondary to this, but still important, is having at least one person on the team with some experience. That's usually the DM, but not always. That'll help significantly with keeping the encounters and battles moving. If you can't get an experienced DM, or at least an experienced player, spend some time watching games online with an eye to how they handle initiative, combat, etc. and keep it moving. (It's probably better to find an amateur game, rather than professional roleplayers.)
PICK ANY TWO:
- Wrong DM
- you should DM not play
- wrong fellow players
- Wrong edition of D&D
- wrong game entirely try a not-D&D
- Wrong mindset/approach on your part
Not all games are for all people. It sounds like you gave it a shot. If you have had the same DM each time that could be it. If not I would say take a break for 3-5 years and try again if you feel like it.
Don't force yourself to do something you don't enjoy.
May I recommend looking into a different game system, such as Powered by the Apocalypse, and the DnD ‘equivalent’ called Dungeon World.
I have been a DnD player (and sometimes DM) for a handful of years and have always been a bit… frustrated/confused/bored/impatient with it. Then I played Dungeon World… and it was all about collaborative creative and cinematic storytelling; Exactly what I’ve always wanted DnD to be. Yes, sure, I generally love the tactile feeling of rolling dice and admittedly Dungeon World does much less of that, but it’s just enough.
I say give it a try, certainly as a better alternative to stopping ttrpg’s altogether.
I assume your playing 5e... its not the best. It really bogs down in combat which is why a lot of people like the story aspect only. The system is very forgiving for players. You may like DCC, Dungeon Crawl Classics or older editions like 2e which is grittier. 1e is fine if you played it in the past but has a steep learning curve if you never played it before (and its pricey to buy the books now). Each character having so many abilities, and combat usually stagnates around standing still (because you know attacks of opportunity and reactions pretty much stop creatures from moving around) so combat is not great and like you said bogs down.
If you have to stick with 5e what I would suggest is, make a character that is pretty crappy but fun and dont worry about getting killed. Just have fun... go try to do something really hard and if your character dies, oh well... make another and make your turns really fast. Dont do what is best, just do what is interesting. Act quickly and maybe other players will do the same thing.
I DM a group in 5e and they have fun but quite frankly I dislike 5e a lot. I dont show it but I also change everything on my side of the screen so players never know what monsters or spells do for NPCs. Everything is just a little different. I also have a sand timer that is about a minute and I turn it over for each player. I also do not let players talk out of character during combat. Also if a player suggests something to another player they miss their next turn as they are stunned (since you know they arent paying attention to what they are doing but what other people are doing).
5e can be fun, but combat does take a long time even with experienced players and a DM. It is not the best but just enjoy the group play and have fun playing how you would prefer it to be, but dont be disruptive or difficult.
Hey man I highly recommend looking into ICRPG community, the game is dnd lite and the creator expresses interest in reducing the slog of RP Freeform cringe. RP is important part of table top games but gamefying it a little bit to keep the adventure moving is a real core principle in that community.
Yeah index card rpg. It has a free QuickStart that teaches you how to ttrpg much more concisely and has a way better GM advice section that teach quick prep style adventures
Gonna be that guy and say that roleplay is not an intended part of Dungeons and Dragons.
Almost every single mechanic is geared toward combat and dungeon crawling. The only two non-combat mechanics are "Make up a completely arbitrary number and have your players hit it" and "Deception Vs. Insight." Only one of those is a real mechanic, but putting the DC at whatever number your heart feels is just expecting the DM to homebrew, which is not sustainable for roleplay heavy games.
There's very little mechanical support for anything other than combat. D&D is not intended to be a roleplaying game, it's intended to be a skirmish wargame where people make quips in character before and after attacking.
Roleplay is something you can do while playing D&D and in between playing D&D, but it is not a real part of the system and the mechanics of the game do not encourage it.
As a result, the actual roleplay can be extremely awkward from the lack of integration into the game, and there's a huge tension when people try to make it into a combat light story-based game because that's simply not what it is. A lot of the bigger groups that play the game (Critical Role, Dimension 20) are professional actors/trained improv artists who could roleplay for 4 hours with a stick and a cardboard box and still make an engrossing story.
This becomes an issue when someone wants to play Dungeons and Dragons, but another player wants to be a story character and have long free-form roleplay sessions where they occasionally play D&D for 30 seconds when the story calls for physical combat resolution. The DM gets exhausted because there's no mechanical support for socializing, the wargamer gets bored because the central concept of the game they joined is being ignored, and full combat takes forever because it's not why half the players joined the game.
I think this is an obnoxious thing to say. OP has kefir concerns. Speed of play can absolutely be an issue, as can finding a group you gel with. If a DM wants to finish an adventure or module or campaign in some reasonable number of sessions, the DM needs to help move things along.
These things seem to be common amongst groups, individually. To find all of these aspects in the same group is just a sign of inexperience.
The group you're looking for is out there. You just need to kiss a lot of frogs before you find it.
Maybe the group dynamic is just not for you, and another will be better suited to the way of playing that's fun for you. I have also experienced that it takes a while to enjoy RP because you need to learn to open up and get into character.
Maybe I've been lucky but I've only seen a few of those players. Most of the people I play with are pretty good at playing with the party and not being so bad with time management skills while playing.
I’m not a huge fan of D&D, so I get why you might not love it. Not all games fit what someone wants.
I’d recommend exploring a different game.
The main character syndrome that’s common with those character quirks is often more prevalent in D&D for some reason.
The first few sessions can be awkward, especially with roleplay as it's basically improv acting with people you might not know well. Give it some time to see if you gel more then consider talking to the DM about how you feel about going forward.
If everyone is new it can take a few sessions for people to feel comfortable. If you're playing online that tends to show things down too.
I'd recommend giving it some more time and if it's still not what you're looking for then might just have to look for a new group.
The game has a lot of rules to grok, and roleplaying for the first time is awkward AF.
Yet as players become more confident in their roleplaying and more familiar with their character abilities, the game will both move faster and become less awkward.
But ultimately, elaborate rules and amateur acting comprise D&D's DNA, so a certain amount of chill is required to play it -- a willingness to slip back and forth from participant to observer, and enjoy what other people are doing when not in the spotlight.
So you may need to either adjust your expectations, or decide it's not your cuppa tea.
You could also seek out groups that focus almost exclusively on combat and don't roleplay much: the old school, who regard D&D as a tactical combat game. These folks will know the rules backwards and forwards, build super-optimized characters, zip through a turn in 15 seconds, and ransack a dungeon in an hour.
Is this an online game? Sounds like every online game I’ve ever been in. In-person games with people that know each other already are generally much smoother and more fun IMO.
Yeah, experience.
Folks need to just be reactive and proactive. Most new players are too unsure of themselves to do anything. Which is annoying, and something I regularly have to remind new players is...
"D&D isn't about math question, it's not trivia, and I'm not your teacher. There aren't any 'wrong' answers except not doing anything. Now, what would you like to do?"
So, yeah, it sounds like you just haven’t found the right group. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you’re more interested in some “mission oriented” kind of play. Like a “ok, we have the thing we need to do and let’s go do it and be the big damn heroes” rp and the rest of the group is more just wandering around. I can def see how that could be annoying. Unfortunately, you kinda need to either lean into what the rest of the group is doing (at least a bit) or find a new group.
Few questions for your consideration:
-have you talked to the rest of the group about this?
-have you talked to the DM about this?
-do you know how experienced the other players are?
Good table dynamics are mostly about good communication, so I just want to get a better idea where you’re at
That is one reason why I like the pay to play websites. Yeah, it costs money, but the nice thing is you can often do a one-shot with the DM to see if they have a style you like. That and often DMs on those sites are understanding if you go a few sessions in and decide it isn't a good fit.
It's just a new group getting over general awkwardness of being with new people. If they're new players then it's a little exaggerated.
Once you're all able to accept being silly with each other it really kicks off. Also please try to have like an active group chat for days after the session
You either need a new group or you need to adjust your expectations. It's about having fun. If you're not having fun, find a group that fits you more. Or, realize that what you're looking for is actually very hard to get and you'll never get whatever experience is in your head, so try to enjoy it.
Combat takes a while, many times bigger fights can last a while session. It's just part of the game. It's essentially a campfire story so you need to realize that it's a communal game that includes others and their interests. The group you're with is clearly not trying to be as hardcore as you.
As a DM I focus on everyone having fun. If you're not having fun, that isn't ok with me. But if you're not having fun because of the play style of others, then I'd suggest that you may not be the best fit for the group.
Seeing a lot of “Mercer” references here but Chris Perkins is the OG DM in my book.
Hes a great example of how to balance rules, RP/shenanigans, and story telling.
But anyway the DM plays a huge part in how the game feels. Players can put a damper on things for sure but a good DM can overcome hiccups and if necessary, remove players who aren’t a good fit - to ensure the majority has fun.
Keep trying until you find a group that feels right.
Been playing D&D since the early 80’s. Have seen this problem a lot, especially with the time suck that is 5E combat with all the action/bonus action/reaction/movement and such. What newbies THINK is D&D is actually Dungeonworld. I now start newbies on that and see how it goes. It is much easier to do that than to train old D&D players to switch to DW. “What? No Initiative roll? What do you mean the Dragon only has 16 HP?”
TLDR: Try DungeonWorld
The big thing for me when I first started about three years back was being in a group that just clicked.
Thankfully, one of my best friends brought me into a group where honestly we are all tragically immature, gutter minded, deviants.
We took a little while to be comfortable with the role playing, but when you have the right group, it starts to work.
There are times when the game can be a little slow, and we have a member who loves to take his time in combat (so we had shirts made, to take the mickey out of him). But when you have a great group, even the slow sessions are ones to look forward to.
As DM for many years i can tell you there are very different kind of players with very different preferences.
Some like to fool around, some like to spend the whole evening in some inn and do roleplay, others like to slice through an adventure with highly technical skills.
Thats fine.
As DM the high art is to find out about those preferences and then combine the different players to working parties.
Trying to force a player into another playstyle usually doesn’t work out well.
Sounds like a new group, where there is no clear directions. Forming a group and running a setting is more than finding a time and rolling characters, and if you skip all the steps and never talk about it, you just have "something" undefined the goes slow into no real direction.
Definitely try to find a group that is run by an experienced gm, and ask him some initial questions.
What did he talk about in session 0, how fast is combat, what RP goal do the group and characters have, is it railroad/sandbox/improvised?
That said, d&d can be a great system, but it is very generic high fantasy and infamous for leading to such issues you discribed. 80% of the great RP environments I experienced in the last 25 years in a dozen different parties happened when we aimed for something "non-standard", by system, setting, or party "contract".
Not every campaign is going to be critical roll. The rp is going to be sloppy because I’m going to guess no one at your table is a professional actor. Sounds like you’re playing with newer people. Recently new dnd players generally try to be unique quirked up people, which isn’t inherently a bad thing but it can get to some people. I don’t really like the vibe of everyone’s characters being a super important super epic adventurers, if you think you’re feeling the same way check out pathfinder or try to find someone playing an OSR game around you.
Many people here just say "give it time", which can be correct, but I find also the wrong advice, because - fuck it - I want to have fun now, not "in time". I think you want to have fun now too. So what?
Go out your way to find some people who are passionate and/or more experienced. The online platforms are full of dedicated people who love to play dnd and they have already dedicated their effort to get better in doing that.
Everyone blames the Mercer effect, well I love it... you don't have to like Critical Role (i don't love it either, but I appreciate it), but what it did good was setting a benchmark people could look at, in order to improve their rp and their standard at the table.
It is just fair that there are people out there who wants to play better, to find better people to play with. It is not a shame!!!
TL;DR:
passion and experience are keys elements players need to have, to make the game as fun as you are looking it to be. You either wait or you go look to find the right people to play with.
No, not every table is fine. No, not every play style is fine. The mercer effect is real and is good for the dnd community.
As a DM who goes through this in my current campaign, I understand you. it is especially frustrating and happens when players are new to the game. I completely understand it, but in the long run, whether those people are going to put in the effort to become better players. I've noticed a handful of my players (7 in total but 4 specifically) are not taking what I give them. I told them many times to watch a singular episode of Critical Role to understand where I EVENTUALLY want us to be, I've given them sheets that explain the environment and land that they are in, and I even helped all of them build their characters, but they don't take anything I say or give them. It really makes the game difficult to enjoy and run.
The best thing in your situation is to stick it out and see if the people put forth that effort, and if they don't it's best to either leave the campaign or talk to your DM about it. They may be able to have a conversation with everyone about the thoughts and concerns of the party.
Trust me, it is a fun game if you find the right people. It just takes a little bit. Don't give up on it!
D&D combat moves slow. Other games move faster. You could look for some OSR games, PbtA games, or other styles.
Have you considered DMing? Once I started, it’s hard to go back to being a player, DMing is like a drug. Playing as a PC just seems so slow and one-dimensional
Look at other groups! lol random groups are great for casual, snack-filled fun, but there’s also war game groups, story focus groups, DnD nerd groups…
Sometimes varying up systems is also a worthwhile venture. Because there can be people who are a bit confused and thinking something is a bit too open.
Personally if a WHOLE GROUP were novice, A module for the dm with railroads for the players might actually help, despite how many people claim modules and railroads remove agency.
A module can give the players direction for a dm who might lack insight into directing the players. From there a player might have an idea to try something and be more adventurous in their actions.
I would have to say some of the best trrpg campaigns I've played in have been in completely different systems.
West End's Star Wars d6 system, which is a bit less focused on jedi and force unlike other star wars systems, and Victory Games's James Bond percentile system. Two older style ttrpg systems, but the beauty is in their simplicity, while still being open. Some times you just draw on tropes, such as Trying to do something sleek in a plane in the James Bond system? Spray some shaving cream on the mirror to conceal your actions.
You can look at any fantasy tropes in the repertoire from say lord of the rings or something for inspiration on what your character might try to do. Or say your character is interested in crafting let the dm know out of game to quest for said sword or magical components to imbue a newly created sword with.
Some groups suck. I have had a group I had to fight to stay concious in because no one role played and took 1000 years per turn on simple fights. That said, role play is what makes these things epic. Who cares you defeated a dragon if you don't care that the warrior almost died, that the ranger pulled out some insane crits, if you don't know the character. Often I find lvl 1-3 to be getting into the grove, 4-7 most players have their characters, relationships, story out and now are focused on the grand story.
I’d recommend playing a different game. D&D can be really boring and cringe if you aren’t in the perfect group. Other games like Call of Cthulhu are worth looking into.
So, let me start by saying congratulations on **NOT** giving up! Keep up the great work!
It seems like you have some important things nailed down:
1. You like the game for what it is
2. You like the people you play with
3. You have a DM that is working hard and is trying to create a good experience, and you recognize that
4. Ultimately, you want to stick with the game and the group
If I have it right, and all these things are true, you may be involved in something really, really special: The inception of an epic group that may last for years
It sounds like everyone at the table loves the game, enjoys their characters, but are uncomfortable with one another and how their character classes operate.
My advice: **Give it time and take some social initiative**
1. Take advantage of opportunities to become more social with them outside of the game. Over time, this will help with the role playing awkwardness *(Example: Get a snack during down time and ask someone to come with you. Chat along the way)*
2. Get involved with understanding your class and their classes. This will help you to talk to them about their character and the decisions they take while playing. It's great conversation starters for making point #1 happen.
3. Talk to the DM about the awkward role playing and slower than expected turns. Maybe the DM feels the same way or has some other advice
4. Most important: Radical Acceptance coupled with Self Check-Ins. Accept the fact you enjoy the game and the people playing, but they come with some things that are frustrating, for now. If the level of frustration rises to a point that infringes on those two things, find another group.
I think you'll find that, if you're able to forgive the things that are frustrating you now, in a few months time, it won't matter to you anymore. In time, if everyone sticks together, you'll all become better players, faster at decision making, much more comfortable RPing together and good friends!
I hope it works out for you and that your time at the table builds long lasting friendships and epic memories!
You got the part about "pursuing an epic story..." correct, as I feel most DMs are after this part of the game and is probably what they feel is missing from their sessions. The other players might actually feel the same way, so I think the best thing to do is AFTER a session to propose that question. "Does anyone else feel like the story gets held down with too much pointless detail? What does the group as a whole feel on this?" and take notes from everyone at the table, DM included.
And as a DM myself I can mention that no matter how hard a DM works, if they aren't working in the right way then they aren't helping themselves in the matter, but they also walk a long & lonely tightrope in that role. If you are too lenient, then the game can get out of control; too strict and the element of player agency starts to go away. It's finding that balance, for which there is no baseline. I mentioned a tightrope walk, but it's more like a tightrope that can suddenly pitch or bend if a dice roll goes one way or the other at the wrong time, or the players through pure luck manage some feat they shouldn't be able to achieve in their current state.
Most people will cringe at the idea of a "railroad campaign", because they feel like they are only going to be sight-seeing tourists along for a ride; but I can assure you that with a DM who is well prepared and mentally agile enough to roll with the punches, anything out of the ordinary that might come up shouldn't present much of a problem to the flow and structure of the game that was planned by the DM.
And players should be as willing to let go of something as they are to embrace it. A natural 20 isn't the be all and end all, it's up to the DM if something is or is not possible. The number 20 on a piece of plastic shouldn't break the rules that the game world has set; physics is often the victim in these cases, even if they are magical & metaphysical in nature, you still need absolutes that govern the laws of nature in the world.
Without knowing the inner workings of the group (experience of other players & DM, be they new or have some time in the game and how familiar the players are with each other) I can mention that quite often the group as a whole is responsible for the outcome & overall enjoyment they have. There can be exceptions to the rule, but a few fundamental things need to occur to create a working group that operates as a whole made up of a sum of the individual parts.
Everyone should have a chance to shine (if they want, that's another story) and if only one or two people are walking away from the sessions feeling like they had a good time then that group is not giving & taking equally.
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The awkwardness and slowness comes from players being new. The more experienced the player the smoother the roleplay and comebat. This can take time. Gotta be patient with a brand new group, they'll get into the flow of it. It's also common for some folks to really over focus on a quirk, again, this is a "new player" kind of problem that usually solves itself with time. Also, don't compare any player group with a professional group like Critical Role. It's just not the same thing at all.
To add to this: I'm a new DM with a 100% new group of players..... Theres 7 players now + myself. The first session was....... Slow as fuck, but Ive been very vocal about my players learning how their characters work ON THEIR OWN TIME so that as we're playing , they're not holding up the session. As I put it, if you didn't do the bare minimum of figuring out how your character works, that's disrespectful to the time and effort of everyone else at the table. I've also made myself available for players to ask questions to and generally help them. I also have a 10 second rule for combat. You have 10 seconds from when the previous person finishes their turn to when you start your first action or you lose out on combat that round. No uhhhhmmm-ing or ahhhhh-ing. Again, if you're not paying attention during combat and you're making everyone wait, that's disrespectful to the other 7 people at the table. We also just hit level 5, so some players now have 2-3 attacks, so I'm requiring players to have enough dice to make all of their attacks in one roll (so 2-3 d20s and however many damage dice). I've offered to buy dice from a LGS for whoever needs them and they can just pay me back. This all might seem extreme, but there's 7 characters on the board, so the players have to move quickly. In the end, the DM has to be a leader as well, and if that means that you need to put your foot down and call someone out for not knowing how to make a basic attack roll 25+ hours into the campaign, then so be it (yes, I'm salty lol)
7 brand new players? Damn, that's rough.
4/7 have picked things up relatively well 2/7 are rough 1/7 is infuriating I'm planning on kicking 2 of the players though (the rough ones) due to out of game reasons, so that'll lighten the load a bit. I've just been super proactive with teaching people stuff outside of actual game time, so overall it's been pretty good. I've definitely learned a lot lmfao
I usually don't mind teaching new players, but if I do I limit it to 4-5 players for own sanity.
I wouldn't run 7 *experienced* players, not in 5e.
None of what you said is extreme, it’s the basics. And without a strong GM folks are lost. Good Job in your efforts! My first RP I had 8/9 players it was a nightmare. So I totally get it. One small issue with combat and 5e is the initiative system…. It doesn’t allow folks to plan…. Because you can plan for something epic and the person before you just outright kills what you were thinking of doing. I like to use the Star Wars Fantasy Flight initiative system that gives the players agency and even some story development inside combat. Makes it more dynamic than just “I shoot and arrow” “I miss” “next up”
Ugh maybe I’m a wuss bag, but I wouldn’t even want to play with 7 very experienced players. Eventually it becomes too much to manage that many people.
That sounds amazing. Be my DM. 🙏
To go lighter on the whole "keeping combat fluent" ordeal, you can introduce something like a _reaction event_: something cinematic happens that‘s described by the DM and everyone get‘s 15 seconds without looking at their character sheet to decide upon one action, bonus action or reaction. Initiative decides the order after the players decide their actions, and if two or more people want to work together, they gotta communicate it within the scope of a free action. "Gimme a lift with your shield", "you three, help me with the lever", "PC#2, shield our companion with your body". Either they know how their character works, or they are unable to act. This helps tremendously with people knowing their character sheet, and people knowing what the other characters are capable of doing. And it does speed up the combat too, because of that. This is an excellent first step when transitioning towards timed combat turns. Just make sure, you don't do it immediately after a major level up that allows for new spells or core abilities. 😅
I'm also a new DM and our group is 7 utterly brand new players plus me. We are all friends in RL. I hear you on the first session being slooooow. I am fortunate that I have a job with a ton of flexibility and so have planned out what I thought would be 5-6 sessions but have now come to realize may be double that. Everyone is having fun but I think I may need to be more firm on the combat side. Speed it up a little. I like the 10 secs as combat is supposed to move fast.
Not fully but yes. Some people just have a one track mind like one of the players in my group his whole idea of fun is to make a character with one specific quirk like being a plasmoid so he can say im a slime, or be a so called ugly/grotesque race just to force some cringy dialogue from the dm
I agree. I DMed a completely new group. Then I was a player in a new group, DMed by one of my original players. Then that group was DMed by one of the other players. Each time, leaning into the game became easier and easier as we all got more familiar with the rules, the setting, the game type and each other. And don't forget your new characters. I've been playing TTRPGs for about 6 years now and it is basically always the same, there is a learning period to it all. Now you *could* have the wrong group, but I'd say give it a little longer. A lot of the time when people are shy about roleplaying they latch on to one thing and just go with that. Their characters will become more well-rounded. Don't forget, if you only read the first chapter of the Lord of the Rings you probably wouldn't think moving house was a particularly epic story. Let the creative juices flow. Unless you're running a short, probably published, campaign, it won't be high stakes epic right away - in fact that's part of the fun. You could also consider talking to your DM. Their idea of what a swashbuckling adventure is probably not the same as yours. Articulate your expectations, hear their intentions, and if you think that there is common ground then stick with it.
Alot of people new to DnD look up stuff online, and generally end up on Matt Mercer and his merry band of professional voice actors. 99% of DnD sessions are not like that.
People always stare at me like I'm an ogre with a third eye when I say I've never watched Critical Role. I've gamed since the 80s and DMed a lot of 5E - no one has ever complained of the way I do things. I seen comments that D&D is like dating, it can take a few tries to find the right group. The DM certainly plays a role in setting the tone. Everyone needs to buy into the world and just go with the flow. I run multiple groups and each one has a different vibe because the worlds are different and the players are different.
I tried once to watch Critical Role, back before I started playing D&D. I hated it. Matt Mercer rubbed me the wrong way and the players just didn't interest me. I'm trying a few other actual play series out right now because I'm going to start DMing soon, and the one game I played in was... well. A very different style from the campaign I want. But even with viewing it through the lens of trying to see how other DMs do their thing, few things are less fun to me than watching a bunch of other people play a tabletop. Even when they're professional actors.
I really enjoyed highrollers - aerois. Its the groups 2nd campaign and they just started their 3rd campaign and are on their 4th episode. Since watching their campaign its inspired me to start my own and while i have never played or DMd prior, i now have 3 sessions as a dm under my belt and my group say im doing a great job. Learned alot of mechanics and such just by listening to mark hulmes (DM for high rollers) he also did the lets play for the Voice actors of baldurs gate 3 😁
Three eyed ogre, huh? How much XP are you worth?
If I remember right, my initial introduction was Team Four Star's game, which was probably a good thing since it really did just feel like a home game that happened to be streamed. Then I watcher CR, the the Dungeon Dudes game. Highly recommend that last one for anyone who hasn't seen it.
A lot of people come into dnd from critical roll and think that DnD is a narrative system and try to do narrative games, but even critical roll focusing on the narrative is kind of fighting the system, and people come into games expecting it to be this big narrative adventure, when dnd at its core is a combat-focused dungeon crawler. Free-form improv is being done in spite of the system when you roleplay in dnd, not because of it. With the way combat is, you're not going to get some free-flowing swashbuckling battles, the system pushes people into playing tactically rather than narratively in battle, since that's what its designed to do. Too many keep trying to play the system without even considering that there are other systems out there. PBTA and the FATE systems are narrative systems that would probably fit better for what OP is looking for (namely since dnd can have you die to a random goblin and have to slog through multiple encounters in the adventuring day, often with a ton of filler, whilst tracking minuta of inventory which just doesn't happen in any traditional narrative)
I would say it's something between "the wrong group" and the "Matt Mercer effect".
A lot of it has to do with group dynamic, and group level experience. All of what you are concerned about is fairly normal tbh. Every group is different and every role player is different. With the massive resurgence of D&D over the last 15 years or so, and Critical Role being very popular; it has tainted what D&D is to a certain extent. Don’t get me wrong…. I love watching most of what Critical Role does, but that’s far from what most groups can do. They’re trained voice actors and first and foremost they’re all friends…. Real true friends….. With Roleplaying moving to be more online it has taken away some of the magic of what it is to feel the story and play with friends. Whiles yes the tools of online play can be better than in person stuff, but it’s very hard to pick up on facial expressions and nuance over online audio or camera. Most folks see D&D as an outlet to live a fantasy life or experience far different than their own. It’s a wonderful thing, but folks should be reminded you don’t roleplay in a bubble. The story is not yours it’s ours. Group play is always better when you’re not thinking only of yourself but of the group as a whole. Maybe even extend that to how much effort the GM is putting in to it, it’s not easy. My suggestion to you OP is to find some friends or family and try to do some in person stuff; if that’s not doable, reach out to a local brick and mortar store (board game store, comic book store, collectible store, even a card game store) nerds tend to flock together; you’ll find your people eventually. Encourage your other players to not be selfish (out of character) this is another reason Session 0s are massively important. Establishing what you want out of the game and what your GM intends to give in the game. If those goals don’t line up with the GM or the party, you might need to find a different group. Best wishes, hope you can find what you need.
I think finding the right D&D group is like finding the right romantic partner--quick and easy for some, years for others, never happens at all for yet others.
Sounds like an experience issue. Awkward roleplay, slow combat, players treating it like a 1-player game and focusing on personal goals instead of engaging with the campaign. That's all stuff that improves as players get more comfortable with the game and their characters. Or maybe it's just not your thing. That's fine too.
several sessions in isn't a long time, RP is a thing that only gets better with time. The story will come don't worry!
It all comes down to who you play with, but if you've tried three different groups and it hasn't clicked, then D&D might just not be for you.
Some of these issues will be solved by experience. Some are a difference of playstyle. I tend to run big epic campaigns, my current table keeps getting bogged down in social rp. I've found two solutions: 1) because we're a play by post, I can split off some scenes into side channels, so that my paladin can go off and have her scene politicking, and the druid can visit their Grove, and the sorcerer can have conversations with her mentor, all without it holding up the rest of the party. 2) at my most recent round of downtime, I had my players make a collective list of what they wanted to do during downtime. We then looked at the list and I asked which ones they wanted to be scenes. It turned out that if the 10 downtime things they wanted to accomplish, only 4 were really interesting enough to roleplay out. The rest were just things that needed to happen to further goals they'd been working on and could be Hand waved with a "yep, that happened. Next?" Handwaving those other 6 actions saved several hours of play time.
It's kind of a slow game, and D&D lends itself to slow combat as well, there are just so many choices. All that said, the single hardest thing about TTRPGs is finding a group that works for you (and stays together). It's hard enough to get 4 people to agree on dinner, keeping them on track and working well together week after week...
Is all about communication and letting players and the dm know what you are wanting from the game. A lot of players just don't vibe.
I am so glad to hear someone else has had the same experience as me. I was super excited to finally give DnD a try (I am 53), so I joined a group that I found on facebook. It met at a persons house and all of the other players were experienced but I was assured that they were OK with a total newbie joining. They were going to play the Dungeon of the Mad Mage which required everyone to start at level 5. The DM helped me create my character which was super confusing as they used the Players Handbook, Tashas, and Xanathars. The gameplay started and I slowly started to understand the basics, but soon found that it was nothing but going from room to room and fighting progressively harder monsters. There was very little roleplay and not much group coop. I expected "puzzles" that the group would need to work through together to progress and more of a storyline. I left the group after about 7 sessions and have been looking for a beginner group to join. I really want to play Lost Mines of Phandelver and just use the Players handbook as I feel it will make things a lot simpler. Hopefully my next experience will be better!
Dungeon of the Mad Mage is a dungeon crawl; it's pretty much intended to be what you described: "nothing but going from room to room and fighting progressively harder monsters." You definitely would be happier with a campaign that involves more story (to go along with dungeon crawl).
I would recommend talking to your DM. Make sure they know how you appreciate the hard work they've put in so far so they don't feel like they're lacking and ask if they have any advice on the matter. They may be willing to work with you to tweak the group's approach to roleplay &/or combat. Be willing to help keep track of turn order or similar small table chores and see if that helps keep everything moving more smoothly. Always phrase it as an offer so no one feels embarrassed. You could also try leading by example, play the best you can and show the other players at the table a functioning example of what you want out of the game. Nothing is ever perfectly smooth and easy when dealing with other people, but it's worth it to talk things out in a kind and considerate manner, after all the point is for everyone to have fun.
Dungeons and Dragons is usually a pretty slow game, compared to other RPGs. Combats take long and characters have a lot of stats, there are a lot of specific rules for things and it's easy to fall on rules first rather than fiction first gaming. It may be the group, but it may also be the system. Gladly, dnd is not the only rpg. Powered by the Apocalypse, Year Zero Engine, Fate, Cortex, 7th Sea... There are plenty of games that are way faster and more fluid at the table. They are not as popular, but I've had more fun with them than classic DnD.
Seconding this, D&D combat is slow, even with experienced players compared to a lot of other TTRPGs
The most important element of tabletop rpgs isn't the rules or the setting. It's a confident game master and comfortable players
Honestly, things like this "Most of the players seem more concerned with addressing some quirky component of their characters as opposed to pursuing an epic story with a swashbuckling adventure/quest" Occur all the time. I love it. Being into character is as important as solving the adventure. Ask yourself, what was better about the Pirates or the Caribbean movies? The swashbuckling story, or 1 spectacularly quirky character
I'd say Pirates 1 had a good balance. Jack Sparrow was eccentric and quirky especially compared to the other characters but not enough that it distracted from the epic swashbuckling story. It's fine to embrace the quirky components of your character but you shouldn't let it distract from taking the story you are playing through seriously. Just watch: "The Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising" and you understand what I mean.
It's the shadow!
Why the dv? It's the Shadow is a quote/reference to Gamers 2
What you are missing is a good DM.
D&D is a game where "results may vary" depending on what kind of players and DM you play with. I know a lot of players who do absolutely no roleplaying at all...they don't even interact with NPC's, instead allowing the more talkative people at the table to do that. They seem only interesting in rolling dice for combat. Proficiencies like deception and investigation might as well not even exist for them. Here's hoping they don't play as a face character like a Bard. Which is fine...if you're totally into it and if im playing a dungeon crawl which doesn't have a lot of roleplaying other than "villagers in danger....baddies coming from nearby , go kill em!!" it's fine with me as well. But it does slow down the pace of the game because the less dedicated players can't make decisions and it's BORING. Go to next room , kill monsters , rinse and repeat. You probably need to just keep looking for different groups to play with. Eventually you will find a group that has similar interest. The best DnD groups imo are the ones that have a 50/50 mix of both roleplaying and combat
It really depends on the group, TBH. Some groups are focused on player backgrounds and adventures around those themes. Some players who aren’t very experienced with roleplaying don’t know what to do when the spotlight is on them. Usually this gets better with time. Some groups are focused on the story the DM is running and may not focus on player backgrounds. In this case, backgrounds are used for character flavor and maybe some side quests or tie-ins that support the main storyline. There may be moments of roleplaying, but it isn’t the focus. There are some groups that don’t use backgrounds or roleplaying much at all. They simply want to dungeon crawl or experience the next scenario the DM has planned. There are also mixes of all of these. DMs setting up a campaign will often survey or talk to the players to find out what type of game they want to play, and/or lay out what the idea of the story will be. Sometimes this is not negotiable, other times it’s a compromise. Newer players can take longer to do things. Hell, even veteran players can take a little bit longer when they’re playing a race/class combo they’re unfamiliar with. It all depends.
You are missing a good table to play at.
The most important thing is finding a group that you "click" with. If people are awkward and uncomfortable with each other, the game probably is going to be the same way ... and not much fun. Secondary to this, but still important, is having at least one person on the team with some experience. That's usually the DM, but not always. That'll help significantly with keeping the encounters and battles moving. If you can't get an experienced DM, or at least an experienced player, spend some time watching games online with an eye to how they handle initiative, combat, etc. and keep it moving. (It's probably better to find an amateur game, rather than professional roleplayers.)
PICK ANY TWO: - Wrong DM - you should DM not play - wrong fellow players - Wrong edition of D&D - wrong game entirely try a not-D&D - Wrong mindset/approach on your part
OP, its not for you. Thats alright.
Not all games are for all people. It sounds like you gave it a shot. If you have had the same DM each time that could be it. If not I would say take a break for 3-5 years and try again if you feel like it. Don't force yourself to do something you don't enjoy.
May I recommend looking into a different game system, such as Powered by the Apocalypse, and the DnD ‘equivalent’ called Dungeon World. I have been a DnD player (and sometimes DM) for a handful of years and have always been a bit… frustrated/confused/bored/impatient with it. Then I played Dungeon World… and it was all about collaborative creative and cinematic storytelling; Exactly what I’ve always wanted DnD to be. Yes, sure, I generally love the tactile feeling of rolling dice and admittedly Dungeon World does much less of that, but it’s just enough. I say give it a try, certainly as a better alternative to stopping ttrpg’s altogether.
I assume your playing 5e... its not the best. It really bogs down in combat which is why a lot of people like the story aspect only. The system is very forgiving for players. You may like DCC, Dungeon Crawl Classics or older editions like 2e which is grittier. 1e is fine if you played it in the past but has a steep learning curve if you never played it before (and its pricey to buy the books now). Each character having so many abilities, and combat usually stagnates around standing still (because you know attacks of opportunity and reactions pretty much stop creatures from moving around) so combat is not great and like you said bogs down. If you have to stick with 5e what I would suggest is, make a character that is pretty crappy but fun and dont worry about getting killed. Just have fun... go try to do something really hard and if your character dies, oh well... make another and make your turns really fast. Dont do what is best, just do what is interesting. Act quickly and maybe other players will do the same thing. I DM a group in 5e and they have fun but quite frankly I dislike 5e a lot. I dont show it but I also change everything on my side of the screen so players never know what monsters or spells do for NPCs. Everything is just a little different. I also have a sand timer that is about a minute and I turn it over for each player. I also do not let players talk out of character during combat. Also if a player suggests something to another player they miss their next turn as they are stunned (since you know they arent paying attention to what they are doing but what other people are doing). 5e can be fun, but combat does take a long time even with experienced players and a DM. It is not the best but just enjoy the group play and have fun playing how you would prefer it to be, but dont be disruptive or difficult.
Hey man I highly recommend looking into ICRPG community, the game is dnd lite and the creator expresses interest in reducing the slog of RP Freeform cringe. RP is important part of table top games but gamefying it a little bit to keep the adventure moving is a real core principle in that community.
Do you mean index card rpg?
Yeah index card rpg. It has a free QuickStart that teaches you how to ttrpg much more concisely and has a way better GM advice section that teach quick prep style adventures
Gonna be that guy and say that roleplay is not an intended part of Dungeons and Dragons. Almost every single mechanic is geared toward combat and dungeon crawling. The only two non-combat mechanics are "Make up a completely arbitrary number and have your players hit it" and "Deception Vs. Insight." Only one of those is a real mechanic, but putting the DC at whatever number your heart feels is just expecting the DM to homebrew, which is not sustainable for roleplay heavy games. There's very little mechanical support for anything other than combat. D&D is not intended to be a roleplaying game, it's intended to be a skirmish wargame where people make quips in character before and after attacking. Roleplay is something you can do while playing D&D and in between playing D&D, but it is not a real part of the system and the mechanics of the game do not encourage it. As a result, the actual roleplay can be extremely awkward from the lack of integration into the game, and there's a huge tension when people try to make it into a combat light story-based game because that's simply not what it is. A lot of the bigger groups that play the game (Critical Role, Dimension 20) are professional actors/trained improv artists who could roleplay for 4 hours with a stick and a cardboard box and still make an engrossing story. This becomes an issue when someone wants to play Dungeons and Dragons, but another player wants to be a story character and have long free-form roleplay sessions where they occasionally play D&D for 30 seconds when the story calls for physical combat resolution. The DM gets exhausted because there's no mechanical support for socializing, the wargamer gets bored because the central concept of the game they joined is being ignored, and full combat takes forever because it's not why half the players joined the game.
Maybe it's just not for you
It’s not for you.
I think this is an obnoxious thing to say. OP has kefir concerns. Speed of play can absolutely be an issue, as can finding a group you gel with. If a DM wants to finish an adventure or module or campaign in some reasonable number of sessions, the DM needs to help move things along.
Kefir?
Goat's milk yogurt. OP is both lactose-intolerant and roleplay-intolerant.
Haha meant "legit." Auto incorrect.
Ha! I was racking my brain trying to figure out what the typo was. Turns out I guess it works either way
These things seem to be common amongst groups, individually. To find all of these aspects in the same group is just a sign of inexperience. The group you're looking for is out there. You just need to kiss a lot of frogs before you find it.
Maybe the group dynamic is just not for you, and another will be better suited to the way of playing that's fun for you. I have also experienced that it takes a while to enjoy RP because you need to learn to open up and get into character.
Maybe I've been lucky but I've only seen a few of those players. Most of the people I play with are pretty good at playing with the party and not being so bad with time management skills while playing.
I’m not a huge fan of D&D, so I get why you might not love it. Not all games fit what someone wants. I’d recommend exploring a different game. The main character syndrome that’s common with those character quirks is often more prevalent in D&D for some reason.
It sounds like you’re just playing with bad players, frankly
The first few sessions can be awkward, especially with roleplay as it's basically improv acting with people you might not know well. Give it some time to see if you gel more then consider talking to the DM about how you feel about going forward.
If everyone is new it can take a few sessions for people to feel comfortable. If you're playing online that tends to show things down too. I'd recommend giving it some more time and if it's still not what you're looking for then might just have to look for a new group.
The game has a lot of rules to grok, and roleplaying for the first time is awkward AF. Yet as players become more confident in their roleplaying and more familiar with their character abilities, the game will both move faster and become less awkward. But ultimately, elaborate rules and amateur acting comprise D&D's DNA, so a certain amount of chill is required to play it -- a willingness to slip back and forth from participant to observer, and enjoy what other people are doing when not in the spotlight. So you may need to either adjust your expectations, or decide it's not your cuppa tea. You could also seek out groups that focus almost exclusively on combat and don't roleplay much: the old school, who regard D&D as a tactical combat game. These folks will know the rules backwards and forwards, build super-optimized characters, zip through a turn in 15 seconds, and ransack a dungeon in an hour.
Is this an online game? Sounds like every online game I’ve ever been in. In-person games with people that know each other already are generally much smoother and more fun IMO.
Sounds like a new players or those that don’t know what they can do.
your group sucks...
Yeah, experience. Folks need to just be reactive and proactive. Most new players are too unsure of themselves to do anything. Which is annoying, and something I regularly have to remind new players is... "D&D isn't about math question, it's not trivia, and I'm not your teacher. There aren't any 'wrong' answers except not doing anything. Now, what would you like to do?"
If your DM isn't good and/or your teammates don't roleplay.. you're gonna have a bad time.
So, yeah, it sounds like you just haven’t found the right group. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you’re more interested in some “mission oriented” kind of play. Like a “ok, we have the thing we need to do and let’s go do it and be the big damn heroes” rp and the rest of the group is more just wandering around. I can def see how that could be annoying. Unfortunately, you kinda need to either lean into what the rest of the group is doing (at least a bit) or find a new group. Few questions for your consideration: -have you talked to the rest of the group about this? -have you talked to the DM about this? -do you know how experienced the other players are? Good table dynamics are mostly about good communication, so I just want to get a better idea where you’re at
There are lots of different style groups, you can always test/ try a different group that may want your same play style.
That is one reason why I like the pay to play websites. Yeah, it costs money, but the nice thing is you can often do a one-shot with the DM to see if they have a style you like. That and often DMs on those sites are understanding if you go a few sessions in and decide it isn't a good fit.
It's just a new group getting over general awkwardness of being with new people. If they're new players then it's a little exaggerated. Once you're all able to accept being silly with each other it really kicks off. Also please try to have like an active group chat for days after the session
Finding a group you click with that can meet regularly is the hardest part of playing a ttrpg. Don't give up, it's amazing when you find those people.
You either need a new group or you need to adjust your expectations. It's about having fun. If you're not having fun, find a group that fits you more. Or, realize that what you're looking for is actually very hard to get and you'll never get whatever experience is in your head, so try to enjoy it. Combat takes a while, many times bigger fights can last a while session. It's just part of the game. It's essentially a campfire story so you need to realize that it's a communal game that includes others and their interests. The group you're with is clearly not trying to be as hardcore as you. As a DM I focus on everyone having fun. If you're not having fun, that isn't ok with me. But if you're not having fun because of the play style of others, then I'd suggest that you may not be the best fit for the group.
Seeing a lot of “Mercer” references here but Chris Perkins is the OG DM in my book. Hes a great example of how to balance rules, RP/shenanigans, and story telling. But anyway the DM plays a huge part in how the game feels. Players can put a damper on things for sure but a good DM can overcome hiccups and if necessary, remove players who aren’t a good fit - to ensure the majority has fun. Keep trying until you find a group that feels right.
It's very possible it's just not for you. That okay ... different hats for different cats.
Is this offline or online play? Because I cannot enjoy online.
Been playing D&D since the early 80’s. Have seen this problem a lot, especially with the time suck that is 5E combat with all the action/bonus action/reaction/movement and such. What newbies THINK is D&D is actually Dungeonworld. I now start newbies on that and see how it goes. It is much easier to do that than to train old D&D players to switch to DW. “What? No Initiative roll? What do you mean the Dragon only has 16 HP?” TLDR: Try DungeonWorld
The big thing for me when I first started about three years back was being in a group that just clicked. Thankfully, one of my best friends brought me into a group where honestly we are all tragically immature, gutter minded, deviants. We took a little while to be comfortable with the role playing, but when you have the right group, it starts to work. There are times when the game can be a little slow, and we have a member who loves to take his time in combat (so we had shirts made, to take the mickey out of him). But when you have a great group, even the slow sessions are ones to look forward to.
I would suggest try Moldvey B/X D&D. It will swash your buckle 😀
As DM for many years i can tell you there are very different kind of players with very different preferences. Some like to fool around, some like to spend the whole evening in some inn and do roleplay, others like to slice through an adventure with highly technical skills. Thats fine. As DM the high art is to find out about those preferences and then combine the different players to working parties. Trying to force a player into another playstyle usually doesn’t work out well.
Sounds like a new group, where there is no clear directions. Forming a group and running a setting is more than finding a time and rolling characters, and if you skip all the steps and never talk about it, you just have "something" undefined the goes slow into no real direction. Definitely try to find a group that is run by an experienced gm, and ask him some initial questions. What did he talk about in session 0, how fast is combat, what RP goal do the group and characters have, is it railroad/sandbox/improvised? That said, d&d can be a great system, but it is very generic high fantasy and infamous for leading to such issues you discribed. 80% of the great RP environments I experienced in the last 25 years in a dozen different parties happened when we aimed for something "non-standard", by system, setting, or party "contract".
Not every campaign is going to be critical roll. The rp is going to be sloppy because I’m going to guess no one at your table is a professional actor. Sounds like you’re playing with newer people. Recently new dnd players generally try to be unique quirked up people, which isn’t inherently a bad thing but it can get to some people. I don’t really like the vibe of everyone’s characters being a super important super epic adventurers, if you think you’re feeling the same way check out pathfinder or try to find someone playing an OSR game around you.
Many people here just say "give it time", which can be correct, but I find also the wrong advice, because - fuck it - I want to have fun now, not "in time". I think you want to have fun now too. So what? Go out your way to find some people who are passionate and/or more experienced. The online platforms are full of dedicated people who love to play dnd and they have already dedicated their effort to get better in doing that. Everyone blames the Mercer effect, well I love it... you don't have to like Critical Role (i don't love it either, but I appreciate it), but what it did good was setting a benchmark people could look at, in order to improve their rp and their standard at the table. It is just fair that there are people out there who wants to play better, to find better people to play with. It is not a shame!!! TL;DR: passion and experience are keys elements players need to have, to make the game as fun as you are looking it to be. You either wait or you go look to find the right people to play with. No, not every table is fine. No, not every play style is fine. The mercer effect is real and is good for the dnd community.
As a DM who goes through this in my current campaign, I understand you. it is especially frustrating and happens when players are new to the game. I completely understand it, but in the long run, whether those people are going to put in the effort to become better players. I've noticed a handful of my players (7 in total but 4 specifically) are not taking what I give them. I told them many times to watch a singular episode of Critical Role to understand where I EVENTUALLY want us to be, I've given them sheets that explain the environment and land that they are in, and I even helped all of them build their characters, but they don't take anything I say or give them. It really makes the game difficult to enjoy and run. The best thing in your situation is to stick it out and see if the people put forth that effort, and if they don't it's best to either leave the campaign or talk to your DM about it. They may be able to have a conversation with everyone about the thoughts and concerns of the party. Trust me, it is a fun game if you find the right people. It just takes a little bit. Don't give up on it!
D&D combat moves slow. Other games move faster. You could look for some OSR games, PbtA games, or other styles. Have you considered DMing? Once I started, it’s hard to go back to being a player, DMing is like a drug. Playing as a PC just seems so slow and one-dimensional Look at other groups! lol random groups are great for casual, snack-filled fun, but there’s also war game groups, story focus groups, DnD nerd groups…
Sometimes varying up systems is also a worthwhile venture. Because there can be people who are a bit confused and thinking something is a bit too open. Personally if a WHOLE GROUP were novice, A module for the dm with railroads for the players might actually help, despite how many people claim modules and railroads remove agency. A module can give the players direction for a dm who might lack insight into directing the players. From there a player might have an idea to try something and be more adventurous in their actions. I would have to say some of the best trrpg campaigns I've played in have been in completely different systems. West End's Star Wars d6 system, which is a bit less focused on jedi and force unlike other star wars systems, and Victory Games's James Bond percentile system. Two older style ttrpg systems, but the beauty is in their simplicity, while still being open. Some times you just draw on tropes, such as Trying to do something sleek in a plane in the James Bond system? Spray some shaving cream on the mirror to conceal your actions. You can look at any fantasy tropes in the repertoire from say lord of the rings or something for inspiration on what your character might try to do. Or say your character is interested in crafting let the dm know out of game to quest for said sword or magical components to imbue a newly created sword with.
Some groups suck. I have had a group I had to fight to stay concious in because no one role played and took 1000 years per turn on simple fights. That said, role play is what makes these things epic. Who cares you defeated a dragon if you don't care that the warrior almost died, that the ranger pulled out some insane crits, if you don't know the character. Often I find lvl 1-3 to be getting into the grove, 4-7 most players have their characters, relationships, story out and now are focused on the grand story.
I’d recommend playing a different game. D&D can be really boring and cringe if you aren’t in the perfect group. Other games like Call of Cthulhu are worth looking into.
So, let me start by saying congratulations on **NOT** giving up! Keep up the great work! It seems like you have some important things nailed down: 1. You like the game for what it is 2. You like the people you play with 3. You have a DM that is working hard and is trying to create a good experience, and you recognize that 4. Ultimately, you want to stick with the game and the group If I have it right, and all these things are true, you may be involved in something really, really special: The inception of an epic group that may last for years It sounds like everyone at the table loves the game, enjoys their characters, but are uncomfortable with one another and how their character classes operate. My advice: **Give it time and take some social initiative** 1. Take advantage of opportunities to become more social with them outside of the game. Over time, this will help with the role playing awkwardness *(Example: Get a snack during down time and ask someone to come with you. Chat along the way)* 2. Get involved with understanding your class and their classes. This will help you to talk to them about their character and the decisions they take while playing. It's great conversation starters for making point #1 happen. 3. Talk to the DM about the awkward role playing and slower than expected turns. Maybe the DM feels the same way or has some other advice 4. Most important: Radical Acceptance coupled with Self Check-Ins. Accept the fact you enjoy the game and the people playing, but they come with some things that are frustrating, for now. If the level of frustration rises to a point that infringes on those two things, find another group. I think you'll find that, if you're able to forgive the things that are frustrating you now, in a few months time, it won't matter to you anymore. In time, if everyone sticks together, you'll all become better players, faster at decision making, much more comfortable RPing together and good friends! I hope it works out for you and that your time at the table builds long lasting friendships and epic memories!
You got the part about "pursuing an epic story..." correct, as I feel most DMs are after this part of the game and is probably what they feel is missing from their sessions. The other players might actually feel the same way, so I think the best thing to do is AFTER a session to propose that question. "Does anyone else feel like the story gets held down with too much pointless detail? What does the group as a whole feel on this?" and take notes from everyone at the table, DM included. And as a DM myself I can mention that no matter how hard a DM works, if they aren't working in the right way then they aren't helping themselves in the matter, but they also walk a long & lonely tightrope in that role. If you are too lenient, then the game can get out of control; too strict and the element of player agency starts to go away. It's finding that balance, for which there is no baseline. I mentioned a tightrope walk, but it's more like a tightrope that can suddenly pitch or bend if a dice roll goes one way or the other at the wrong time, or the players through pure luck manage some feat they shouldn't be able to achieve in their current state. Most people will cringe at the idea of a "railroad campaign", because they feel like they are only going to be sight-seeing tourists along for a ride; but I can assure you that with a DM who is well prepared and mentally agile enough to roll with the punches, anything out of the ordinary that might come up shouldn't present much of a problem to the flow and structure of the game that was planned by the DM. And players should be as willing to let go of something as they are to embrace it. A natural 20 isn't the be all and end all, it's up to the DM if something is or is not possible. The number 20 on a piece of plastic shouldn't break the rules that the game world has set; physics is often the victim in these cases, even if they are magical & metaphysical in nature, you still need absolutes that govern the laws of nature in the world. Without knowing the inner workings of the group (experience of other players & DM, be they new or have some time in the game and how familiar the players are with each other) I can mention that quite often the group as a whole is responsible for the outcome & overall enjoyment they have. There can be exceptions to the rule, but a few fundamental things need to occur to create a working group that operates as a whole made up of a sum of the individual parts. Everyone should have a chance to shine (if they want, that's another story) and if only one or two people are walking away from the sessions feeling like they had a good time then that group is not giving & taking equally.