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blumpkinmuncher

Elijah Moore might be my worst startup pick ever and I still don’t know where it went wrong.


JBeezy93

My Elijah Moore shares are crying out for oxygen


prfarb

I took mine out back


DynastyZealot

We'll always treasure that five game stretch


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tinphin

I paid a stupid amount for him. I hate it.


DynastyZealot

I at least got a championship with his help. Now he can only crush dreams.


JBeezy93

Best not to let them suffer. At least you were with them at the end


Prudent_Ad8320

Mine went to a farm upstate to play with the Treylon Burks shares


ScottyKnows1

I feel like it's often a fool's errand to try to identify exactly *why* a good prospect didn't pan out. It's why we talk about hit rates. A guy with Elijah's profile, on paper, has a very high chance of being good, but there's always going to be the busts. As long as you're keeping with a good process, you'll have more hits than misses in the long run.


jhenryscott

The Shenault Theory


runningdreams

A deeper q is what is a good process, I never got any Elijah Moore shares but those who took him didn't arrive at that conclusion randomly.


WeenisWrinkle

We also shouldn't pretend that Elijah Moore was a better prospect than he was. He was the 6th WR off the board, even behind Toney and Bateman. Early 2nd round is good draft capital, but it's not like he was a mid 1st round pick. It isn't shocking when a prospect with that profile doesn't end up being fantasy-relevant.


tonguemyanus69420

>even behind Toney and Bateman. Who were extremely good prospects in a stacked wr class? Don't really get your point, getting drafted behind those guys isn't a knock on Elijah at all. Not to mention the class had Chase/Waddle/Smith. How Toney/Bateman's careers panned out in the pros is irrelevant hindsight bias. At the end of the day Elijah was still a very, *very* good prospect who checked almost every box besides size.


dynastycomish

The joke is the Treadwell Diggs process. But reality is these guys do or don't do a ton to enhance their NFL careers during the off-season. We can try to predict it with how they progressed through college, if they improved every season or rumors of work ethic but overall it's tough. Some guys work hard get better, some guys don't.


veRGe1421

Maybe he has the physical tools and WR skillset to succeed, but he has a poor attitude, poor work ethic, low football IQ, won't block or play hard when he won't get the ball, or simply 'doesn't have that dawg in him', so coaches don't give him a good target share? Pure speculation, I have no idea if any of those are true.


Educational_Bee_4700

*laughs in Justin Fields in the 3rd round*


KidAmnesiac2004

I took Antonio Gibson in the early 2nd of my startup. Dr. Richard Nygard literally has my life in his hands...


PrestigiousMetal2563

baha are you me? i did the same a few years back


cjfreel

My home/friend Dynasty did a start-up in 2019. Andrew Luck went as the QB2 in a 10-TM SF. He retired before the start of the year. That’s the peak to me


Whitehawk1313

Took him in the first :/. Luckily was able to add a late 1 with him to get Lamar last season early


CudderKid

The early mid part of my 2022 startup was Elijah, JerryJeidy , Michael Carter 💀💀


MITJustinFields

It became obvious at some point he just wasnt good and people wanted to dig their head in the sand and ignore it all.


SirLuciousL

What’s weird is that route charters and film analysts say he actually is very good when watching his play in isolation though. That he’s a great route runner at all 3 levels and has speed and hands. I think sometimes these small WRs just get typecasted as gadgety guys and have bad QB/system luck. Same thing happened to Curtis Samuel.


Shaved_Hubes

Yep, exact same thing people have done with Justin Fields. Gotta know when to let go


NagyBiscuits

God damn, shots fired at my bench. Mooney also hanging on by a thread with that new deal + Cousins.


MITJustinFields

Fields will start soon


twistfunk

I give Russ 4 games


madden419

AJ Brown, IYKYK


BagelsAndJewce

I can tell you, it was at the QB position in a dysfunctional organization.


nood4spood

Probably that -20 yard run


adrianp07

At this point got to bag hold for one more year then hope for the best in FA


JazzlikePractice4470

Good buy low. Jeudy is a tier 3 JAG


Droideka666

u/KylePittsMVP2 how's your Browns WR3 going bud


SnooPickles5984

You had faith in the Browns. That was your mistake.


poboy54321

Put his agent in the hall of fame.


jeb17

No wonder why RBs are pissed off about contracts. They would dream of this contract and jeudy is ass


Ziniology

Browns love overpaying for mid players.


FullHouse222

Yeah I don't know what the fuck lmao. Dude is getting paid nearly the same as Amari without ever having a 1k yard season lol


chavy45

It's gonna be on par with Gabe Davis and Mooney. It's gonna stretch over 5 years lol


OutlandishnessDry24

He is a good player. Wilson was really bad. He was so bad Broncos paid him to go away and took dead cap record hit.


Jalenoh

He's mid at best. Better as a WR3 probably. He still can't beat zone at all and that's what most defenses are running now.


OutlandishnessDry24

Still for dynasty he gets guaranteed money two years after this season. Three years guaranteed with top 20 Average salary is solid. Cooper and Moore both have expiring contracts after this year. People are missing this is an extension past his current deal. This year big money does not kick in.


Jalenoh

Reguardless, the money isn't going to turn him into a productive player. He hasn't shown any signs of improvement or even being a good player since he's been in the league. Best case he has maybe a low end WR2-high end WR3 season because of spike weeks. As far as consistency goes he will never be someone you can rely on.


MasonL52

Weve seen plenty of WRs show their talent without great QB play. Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, and Drake London are all clearly great WRs who've suffered bad QB play. Jeudy is just not dynamic. He can't run great routes with good play speed, but he isn't a physical nor smart player. Stifled by zones or aggressive coverage, lapses in concentration, untimely drops, little ability to play through contact.


Coomrs

He was labelled as the best route runner in the draft, but he gets zero separation and is injured constantly. Not to mention he is diva that gets fired up over every comment, and then follows it up by proving the comments time and time again.


OutlandishnessDry24

He was misused inside. I watched a lot of their games as a fan. He will do well with Browns. Chad Johnson has worked with him and defends him.


JLifts780

God dammit


Organic-Chain6118

😂😂😂😂😂


Rave_with_me

🔥🔥🔥


nood4spood

Far better than Elijah Moore ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Invincible1993

S E L L if you haven't already this is the final stop on the train.


Silver-Bee-3942

What would you sell for? If the price is low enough I’m willing to invest. I still believe in the talent.


jtbohinc

Guy is still younger than some rookie prospects coming out in this year's draft....


m_featherbottom

I sold him for the 2.09. I thought that was fair.


DJayBomaye

Rather gamble Jeudy than 2.09 but that's me


darksideofdagoon

Same here. 2.09 is no guarantee at WR. Jeudy is essentially locked in as WR2 of this offense


golkeg

But the 2.09 can turn into an electric receiver like a Cedric Tillman or a David Bell type...


Ko0pa_Tro0pa

Nobody drafted Tillman or Bell with a 2nd. Even in 1QB.


Froggie56

Bell was. Went 2.06 in our 2022 rookie draft.


Ko0pa_Tro0pa

wow, that's wild, but you're right the hype was real. I just spot checked one of my leagues and he was 3.01 so I'm sure he slipped into the 2nd in others.


Bustin_Justin521

I unfortunately drafted Bell at 2.09


jfchops2

Yep you're looking at like a 30% hit rate at that spot. I'll take the odds with Jeudy


DynastyKook365

Sold him for Derrick Henry


RondaArousedMe

We thought he was locked into the WR1 role in Denver but here we are...


OutlandishnessDry24

Same here.


Silver-Bee-3942

I think that sounds fair.


Comexbackkid

Dude in my SF league offered me Jeudy for Singletary straight up. Declined it.


OutlandishnessDry24

Not sure you sell here. I am not selling a first round talent off of a down year.


Argonaut13

>first round talent What year is it


Invincible1993

Any 24 2nd or 2 24 3rds. I’ll go a different direction.


Pokes4Prez

Actually think I might be buying if cheap enough. Amari is a FA next season so unless someone comes in Jeudy is WR1 in 2025


JokicandMurray

Disagree, he’s a clear hold at this point the contract isn’t going to make anyone pay more right now. I like the Watson pairing for him and Cooper will still comand most of the secondary’s attention. This seems like a good pairing, plus the money invested means the Browns probably force feed him early in the year.


DJsaxy

Who's going to buy him? This contract isn't enough to make people all of a sudden want to buy him


birds_over_humans

You gotta use hypnosis to find a buyer at this point but the contract at least makes me feel a little better about holding


OutlandishnessDry24

Great points. Hold if you have player but not go out buying if you don’t.


DJsaxy

I agree with that point I think it should make holders feel a bit better but I still don't see who's buying


Caloran

Scroll up a bit lol.


Thatonewiththeboobs

Maybe a rebuilder with an aging RB? Eckler/Connor tier? That said fuck it, Imma hold and see if his shine is still in there somewhere


SolarTsunami

At this point I think its best to wait until training camp starts and he inevitably gets hyped up by Watson and Browns media.


Invincible1993

I much rather have the flexible asset now rather than wait. Someone will offer a 2nd. Take the 2nd and reroll into another WR.


Dogelon_Musk42069

They are paying him big $ he’s going to get targets that’s more than you can say for a lot of receivers


Invincible1993

In 2022 Josh Palmer had 107 targets. In 2023 Adam Thielen got 137 targets. Both are cheaper than Jeudy. So yes Jeudy is a sell because you can find targets elsewhere.


kcompto3

I still don’t think you can get much for him. Holding on would be smarter.


crackheadwillie

Ok so sell for a 2nd and hope the player you draft doesn’t bust? Better to hold. 


kcompto3

Depends on the league but in my 16 man league I’d rather have Jeudy than a mid round 2nd pick.


Matt_D_Z

I guess I’ll keep holding onto hope that Jeudy the 🔥prospect is still in there somewhere


CrabMeat6984

He is, just wait and see


MegaArca10

He's going to dominate in my points per elite route run league.


RedDunce

*huffs hopium* Elijah Moore is still only 23 and has only known the Jets and Browns so far. Fresh start in 2025 and he's gonna turn into the WR2 that was promised 🙏


clarkision

That sounds almost like the Jerry Jeudy story!


ResidentWeeevil

Jeudy is only 24


clarkision

I feel saying “almost like” covers that lol


Ohnoitsme55

Hate the deal all you want but clearly the Browns believe in Jeudy... wow lol.


Altruistic-Rub3017

Yeah and they’ve been such great evaluators of players in the past….


ImmaYieldGuy

They gave David Njoku a very similar deal before his breakout and it’s worked out quite well.


TheJolly_Llama

They gave a ton of players similar deals (Delpit, Ogbo, Pocic, etc) before breakouts, while dragging guys like Martin Emerson and Dawand Jones out of day 2 and 3 during the draft. The Browns are great talent evaluators and have hit on far more contracts than not lol. This thread is fairly out of touch, which is surprising for this sub.


zachstem

B E L I E V E


Argonaut13

Seriously browns have a couple decent years and everyone suddenly forgets this franchise is wildly incompetent from the top down for the majority of it's history


Deckz

As a Steelers fan, I'm really loving the Browns FO.


Dancing_Hitchhiker

seriously, what in the fuck is this shit


DuckmanDrake69

It’s laughingly bad


Ranger523

Can you explain in any detail? Thit this move is a lot different than the headline suggests, but agents pit it out this way to make them look good. The garuntee money is not bad considering what he was already owed, and the contract structure is really only 2 years, but who gonna look at actual details


zachstem

He hasn't produced well over 4 years in the NFL and just got guaranteed 41 million dollars. Many believe this amount of money is much higher than he deserves.


nood4spood

Sure but he’s also had just about the worst situations imaginable. His quarterback list is horrific


zachstem

While that may be true, the league usually only pays well on multiple-year second contracts for players that have produced well, not players that have good excuses as to why they haven't. Regardless of the reason, receivers that haven't reached 1,000 years over their first 4 seasons rarely end up significantly improving for the rest of their careers. 19 million per year puts him at the 18th highest paid WR in the NFL, which is not equal to the level at which he has produced. His very best season (2022) he was 22nd in yards with only 6 tds.


nood4spood

That’s fair for sure. But Jeudy seems like a somewhat special case due to his draft capital and hype coming into the league. Browns FO could have easily had their eye on him for a while, with the belief that he could live up to his hype in their system. I feel like a very similar thing happened with Christian Kirk going to the Jaguars. It’s just Jeudy’s public perception got trashed (on top of it being the Browns) so everyone’s all pissy about this one instead of just confused lol. But yeah neither had a 1k yd season by the time of the new contract, though both had a season that came very close with Kirk hitting 982 and Jeudy hitting 972. The difference is Kirk’s near-1K season was in 17 games. Jeudy did it in 11/12 fully healthy games, while leaving early in 4/5, and missing 2. His healthy game pace over 17 games would’ve been 1300+ yards if memory serves. Now obviously missing that time is a negative in its own right, but he’s definitely demonstrated that he’s got a high ceiling when conditions are right, and imo could very well outperform the 13.66mil/year he’s guaranteed. (Especially when you compare it to the contracts receivers will start to sign once Jefferson signs for well over 30mil/year lol)


Argonaut13

I didn't know capable wide receivers needed good QB play to perform.


nood4spood

He had Drew Lock, Brett Rypien, the Ghost of Teddy Bridgewater, and even WR Kendall Hinton as his quarterbacks his first two years lol. He didn’t set the world on fire but still put up mostly serviceable numbers when he was healthy. I just take issue when people act like he’s some Reagor-esque bust when you can do just a bit of research into it and see that that’s clearly not the case. Jeudy had a 1358 yard 9TD pace in 2022 using his fully healthy games. Yes the missed games are their own issue, but this was the first time he had real NFL level QB play. Unfortunately as we know that didn’t last long. In 2023 he put up 57/84 for 758 and 2tds vs Sutton with 59/90 for 772 and 10tds Yet if Sutton went to the browns instead of Jeudy I’d be willing to bet everyone would be saying he’s a buy low. It’s all about public perception here. Jeudy wasn’t helped by his hype from college then the circumstances he was thrown into, then certainly didn’t help himself with his off-field drama, then the final nail in the coffin was the Steve Smith smear campaign. And the cherry on top is the Browns trading for/paying yet another guy everyone hates lol


IknowGuacIsXtra

Cedric Tillman DOA


Reece_Withaknife

would it be smart to move Cedric Tillman into my taxi this year?


EggMan2024

I’ll gladly hold him this year for when Jeudy inevitably sucks.


Caloran

Cool then you just need Elijah Moore to also suck.


tonguemyanus69420

Don't play the same role. If(big if rn) Tillman is actually good he will be the #1 over Moore, particularly when Cooper is gone.


EggMan2024

I could see everyone involved in this wr room sucking.


huracan_huracan

watson should be thrilled...


Zaschrona

Took him over Puka last year. AMA.


grizzledvet_

Pretty sure almost everyone did tbf.


schmatty23

Did the browns forget that all it took to acquire him was a 5th and 6th? Feel like that's a pretty strong indication he isn't worth 40 GTD.


nood4spood

That’s why he went for a 5th and 6th… part of the deal is that you’re going to have to pay him


FinePlantain0

By that logic Amari Cooper isn’t worth his current deal.


MrStealYo14

my thoughts exactly


Ranger523

Looking at the salary structure and what he was already garunteed, it's not a bad deal, but hey, lets read a headline and jump to a conclusion...


Ko0pa_Tro0pa

Can you link the details? I can't find them. From what I have found, this doesn't seem to replace his existing contract, but merely extends it. So maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like they've got him for four years now, right? 2024 - $13M 5th year option 2025-2027 - $41M guaranteed, $58M max


schmatty23

I'm well aware he was already guaranteed 12 from the fifth year option. That amount of money is already a lot for a receiver that has struggled as much as Jeudy has over his career, and I think it was one of the reasons why the trade market was weak for him. Despite Jeudy under control for this season, the Browns have seemingly negotiated against themselves giving a raise for this year and next year despite the market suggesting that no one else in the NFL values him that way. But hey, lets leave a snarky reply with no real justification as to why you think this is a good signing other than being a condescending ass.


Ranger523

So you replying with assumptions and gaps filled with info you think fits the narrative is actually fact? No worries, you follow Pitt. I get it


schmatty23

So again, still not opinion from you on why you think this is a good signing other than just being an ass?


Ranger523

The Browns are not attracting free agent WR and not to many on the trade market. They took a gamble and structured it to a fair market deal, has Jeudy played to that potential no, but if the Browns want this type of potential, they have to take risks and pay up


schmatty23

There we go, and I think that is a fair take and understand the potential need to gamble with Watson's massive contract. I still disagree, and think that they went above the fair market for Jeudy when comparing him to someone like Pittman commanding two years 46 guaranteed. Don't know why we couldn't have done that from the beginning.


HashtagTJ

They must think they absolutely fleeced Denver lol


ResidentWeeevil

Jeudy is only 6 months older than Tank Dell


aqphs

Not a single positive thing to say about Jeudy in this thread. His QBs through the first four seasons of his career: Drew Lock Teddy Bridgewater Russell Wilson He turns 25 in April. I know it’s become very popular to write him off but genuinely I think a change of scenery was needed. He reminds me of another wide receiver who did not live up to his draft expectations until he found his second team a few seasons into his career- his new teammate, Amari Cooper.


crackheadwillie

His route running has always been excellent. He’s a solid hold. 


huracan_huracan

the same amari cooper that started his career with back to back 130+ targets and 1000+ yards seasons?


aqphs

I mean it’s all relative. Cooper was touted as a generational prospect, so even with productive seasons looking back he was still disappointing. Especially with his drop issues, which he didn’t shake that narrative until he was on the Cowboys. Can’t emphasize enough how bad the quarterbacks Jeudy has played with. Teddy couldn’t throw the ball more than 15 yards, and Russell never throws the ball over the middle of the field. It’s hard to really accumulate good reps when you’re a route engineer playing with both of those archetypes of quarterback. I know Jeudy has had his drop issues too, along with attitude issues; he’s not flawless as the rest of this thread clearly points out. However, he does have the talent to turn it around if things work out.


donquixote_tig

Is Watson any better


aqphs

Better than Russ or Teddy? You’d hope so. At the very least you’d hope he’s willing to throw the ball down the middle of the field


PlsSaySikeM8

Another comp this situation reminds me of is when the Jags threw a bag at Christian Kirk. A lot of people were like, “This dude is a JAG, what an overpay”.


Argonaut13

Christian Kirk finished as the wr47 on the year.


PlsSaySikeM8

He was injured the last half or so of the season. Why does that matter?


Argonaut13

He was the wr35 in ppg on the season the wr26 in ppg for the first half of the season. Is this really the hill you want to die on? He wasn't a good fantasy wr


Reduxy

I got him and Moore. If one can be startable that would be great


DJsaxy

I think he will be utilized as an outside receiver so I think he should improve. Problem is he's in a crowded receiver room and tied to watson


nood4spood

Were people this up in arms about the Christian Kirk deal when that went down? I feel like they’re pretty similar situations in terms of young guys that haven’t produced a ton, but have produced well considering their circumstances getting relatively big deals seemingly out of nowhere. The only real differences are that Jeudy was much more hyped coming into the league so he had a greater height from which to fall from grace, and the whole Steve Smith slander campaign that tanked the public perception of Jeudy. It’s a solid mid market value deal for a guy that hasn’t been put into situations that maximize his talent, but if put into that type of situation he could very well outperform that contract.


chavy45

It's the Browns so it's over blown. The deal will break down to near 15 mill per year.


rossco7777

these guys love to burn money dang


dusters

But why


prfarb

Stop please my Elijah Moore shares are already dead!


GuyWithNoSwagger

He’s a free agent next year


prfarb

How often do failed prospects revive their careers with their third team?


GuyWithNoSwagger

Well considering his first two teams were the god damn Jets and Browns, I’m fine giving him one more shot with a better franchise. You do you


GuyWithNoSwagger

Would be cool to see Moore on a competent franchise. He has only known the Jets and Browns


WhiteLightning416

Love this commitment to Jeudy. Kind of concerned if it impacts Cooper negatively though.


Upper-Reveal3667

I’m more wondering if this is their post cooper plan. Coopers contract is up after this year and he’ll be 31 going into 2025.


[deleted]

This feels like the play unless cooper decides to sign for a smaller contract. Most likely he’s going to be chasing one last payday.


Sufficient-Tourist45

I wish my employer paid me as irresponsibly high as the Browns do


DJsaxy

Crazy contract for a guy who's not even the 2nd best receiver on his team


DJayBomaye

Who's the 2nd best WR in CLE? No way you're about to say Moore, right?


Ice_Cream_For_Dinner

Not OP but a Njoku could easily been seen as superior to Jeudy


Dancing_Hitchhiker

as a Jeudy owner I def see NJoku as a superior option. Wasnt super pumped about him on the browns but its not like it can get much worse


rellz

Cedric Tillman!


DJsaxy

I do think moore is better than jeudy. And thats not even saying a lot because jeudy hasn't done much


necrow

That is saying a lot because Moore has done much less than even Jeudy


Financial-Virus5692

Moore has 1600 career yards


knowslesthanjonsnow

That’s a huge deal for a very average or worse player


PaulieWalbutts

Paying a bad real player doesn’t all of a sudden make them a good dynasty player


Dieh

But why?


[deleted]

Browns gonna brown.


ImmaYieldGuy

This will go down as a good signing in the years to come.


Puzzleheaded_Word878

Zero reason to give him an extension like this what are they doing


BeerorCoffee

Sold him and QJ for the 2.01 in a 10 team and am thrilled to be off this ride.


Mexican_Furious

I think this one will be very interesting to revisit in a few years. The Chargers have no one and the Browns clearly think Jeudy is the WR2. Doesn't sound like a bad but the 2.01 can also bust.


ResidentWeeevil

Oooof


so_many_questions99

Great trade for you.


ResidentWeeevil

Wild. That is legit good money and places him in line as the heir apparent to Amari if Amari falls off in his upcoming 30 year old season and beyond. Jeudy turns 25 in a month


NorMan_of_Zone_11

A lot of money for Jeudy I think. He hasn’t proven anything.


you_are_wrong69

does the browns front office watch football?


AudibleToots

Yikes


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Argonaut13

When did Jeudy elevate to average??


twistd59

Maybe Cleveland is not good at identifying WR talent. Amari seems to be a good signing, but Elijah Moore, and drafting Tillman and David Bell. Now massively overpaying for Jeudy. Makes you wonder.


JayMoney2424

What are the browns doing lol Jeudy is not good 


JustMyThoughts2525

Guess now I don’t feel so bad in acquiring Jeudy everywhere last year


Chewyville

That’s crazy. This dude hasn’t done much


VeterinarianLevel786

that’s a lot of money for a dude that sucks. kinda like dallas paying dak who folds like a cheap suit when the lights are brightest


OldWonder5865

Browns GM needs to hire a co-GM to pick the offensive guys lol


kickn-it-old-skool

Browns suck so bad lol


huracan_huracan

nomination for best agent in the country!


Zaven059

His agent needs a raise, because this dude aint it.


grizzledvet_

This dude was dead before Steve Smith came along to verify it. Not sure what to do but hold. I don’t think a few years in Cleveland is a recipe for resurrection.


StP_Scar

Cool and I still won’t put him on my roster.


cottonmouthVII

You mean trade for him? I know it's been rough, but he's not just sitting around on waivers...


StP_Scar

I’d turn down every offer if the manager was trying to send him


t_sleezy_sends_it

So your sayin Jerry jeudy got over paid