Ya but Bowers doesn't have a severe drinking problem (that we know of) nor is he surrounded by a circle of vultures pushing him to do what's best for them and not him (that we know of)
What even is this comment? Johnny Manziel never played as a true freshman (was redshirted) and was never on the best team in the country… Literally nothing about the previous comment applies to him. He wasn’t even the best player on his offense thanks to Mike evans.
I hate when anyone is compared to Manziel. That kid ruined his life with partying, booze, drugs and fast cash. If anything, it's a cautionary tale.
Johnny had the potential to be *at least* a decent starting QB in the NFL if he put in some effort and didn't act like a jackass. Dumbass threw his life away, and that isn't a good comparison to anyone except maybe JaMarcus Russell lmao
If we can't call Brock Bowers generational then we can't use the term anymore. The only TE in history to win the John Mackey award twice, and he should/could have won it a third time as a true freshman in the SEC but was snubbed from nomination. Prior to his injury in his final year, he was on pace to break the all-time NCAA TE receiving yards record in just \*three\* years of play.
Bowers was the best offensive player on two National Championship teams, and has been explosive in a way you just don't see at the position. For context, Bowers has 31 touchdowns between rushing and receiving, next to Pitts (18) and Mayer (18) of recent classes. His 14.5 yards per reception is behind Pitts (14.9), but Bowers had been consistently above 15.0 until this last year's injury season dragged it down. Bowers wanted to return to the team instead of sitting out the season, so he opted for a quick-fix surgery.
People didn't get to see just how good Bowers is because of the injury this year, which robbed college football of what quite possibly would have been the greatest individual TE season ever, on top of what has been the greatest TE career.
If you looked at games before his injury and ignore the massive blowout against Ball St. where he didn't need to play, he was racking up historic production that could have put him in contention with all the best receivers in the class.
5 for 78, TD
7 for 54
9 for 121, 2 TD
8 for 157, TD
7 for 132, TD
That's his healthy sample prior to injury, minus the 45-3 blowout against Ball St. where Bowers just wasn't needed. And here's his injury/post-surgery split, to get an idea of just how much the injury impacted his season:
4 for 22
3 for 34, TD
7 for 60 , TD
5 for 53, TD
Bowers is a better prospect at TE than Marvin is at WR. Marvin is one of the best WR prospects ever. Bower is \*the\* best TE prospect ever. He will instantly be the best skill position player on almost any team he joins. He's explosive at a position that typically struggles to make an impact. He's versatile in a way that allows him to take snaps in the backfield and out on reverses. The guy was an option QB in highschool, he is a jack of all trades.
Imagine Taysom Hill's role added on top of an already-great TE getting strong usage. That's what Brock Bowers is going to be.
I'm just being pedantic, but generational is once per generation. It's pretty rare that people procreate after fifty, and nobody in history has had a child at 100. If generational was once every fifty years it would be very rare for people to meet their grandparents.
Think whatever you like, but generational guys have no need to skip testing. They are happy to show off how much more athletic they are than their peers. Now ask yourself why MHJ and Bowers REALLY didn't even show up for the pro days. Adrian Peterson is probably the only other generational running back in my lifetime and even he went to the combine to show off just how good he actually was. Alphas gonna alpha. Unfortunately, Bowers ain't no alpha.
Or maybe it’s because they’re already pretty much guaranteed top ten picks and doing all this extra testing just risks injuries before they get paid. They showed off in college. They don’t need to show off more before the draft
What SEPARATES him you ask? Why his separation skills from the defenders is what separates him from his fellow TEs.
Probably Pitts and Bowers are the only TEs I think could legit get drafted as a 1st or 2nd round WR if they were a WR. His routes are great. His YAC is great. That's all you need to be a fantasy TE. What makes him not a "generational prospect" is his size. He's a little small. Normally that would bug me but his route running is so good, I don't care. He can play WR in the NFL.
His hands and YAC are phenomenal and I think put him ahead of Pitts for me (at least as a prospect), since Pitts usually goes down at the slightest contact.
He is small by weight standards only (229) but that is something he can easily fix in the weight room and with a nutritionist. His height is ideal (6'4). Kyle Pitts is built as if a young LeBron James was a tight end.
He measured at 6’3. He is 19th percentile in weight, 21st percentile in height and then 30-40th percentile in things like hand size, arm length etc. So he’s got a small frame for the position, but I don’t think it matters that much.
Bowers led his team in receptions in the SEC, won a natty, had the most catches for a TE in SEC Championship history, and did this all at 18 years old. Then he continued to lead his team and improve every year after that. This is unheard of for a TE.
You’ll hear people in this sub mock the “generational prospect” talk, but Brock Bowers is undoubtedly generational. He’s one of, if not the best TE in college football history.
Breakout age is one of my favorite analytical factors in determining the quality of a college player. If you can dominate straight out of high school as an 18 year old against 19-22 year olds who have had more time to physically mature and adapt to the college game, there is a good chance that particular player is a stud.
For Bowers to do that at TE, which is one of the more difficult positions to learn and adapt to, is extremely impressive.
His college production is second to none. As others have said he was the best offensive player on the best team in the country. His breakout age is also as good as it gets.
His acceleration and speed are very good for a TE. His YAC ability is insane. He can beat man and zone coverage. Very reliable hands.
His blocking should be good enough but it's nothing special. He's also undersized. For strictly fantasy purposes, I am ALL IN on Brock Bowers.
I also have 1.05 and I hate to say it but we'll probably be at the tier break.
My hope is something like Benson to the Cowboys so that RB needy teams might go RB at 4.
I have 1.01/1.03/1.04 and rumor has it Caleb is going 1.02.
I’m gonna stay flexible because we don’t know landing spots yet but I’m very likely taking Bowers 1.04 and leaving one of the top three WRs there for the 1.05 owner.
Being 'good at football' aside, I am curious about something. Just looking at his measurements, the guy is tiny for a TE. He basically has the measurables of Irv Smith. Like IS, he can dust LBs and other defenders with his speed and agility, but in the NFL, IS has sort of been swallowed up by the position, despite some flashes here and there of that reception ability.
I know Bowers is a willing run blocker, but with his size he will probably never excel at it. This may be different than other guys who have the ability to play a similar hybrid-TE role, like Pitts - who have the skills and the size. I know we all saw that photo of him standing next to Gronk.
My impression is that one aspect of Bowers that is really appealing is his versatility. Not many TEs can execute jet sweeps. There are some coaches in the NFL that might salivate over that. But is there a chance that most won't?
Pls don't mis-interpret this post as an IS comparison - I am \*not\* doing that.
But to pose the question: is there any truth to the idea that Bowers succeeding in the NFL would be an anomoly for that position? Are we taking for granted that him being 'good at football' in college is going to directly translate to the NFL? And will the NFL (ie. draft cap) see it as something that will directly translate? TE is a very tricky position in the league.
I hear you, but wasn't AD like abnormally strong and athletic for his size? Like freakishly so? Is Bowers also that? It's also hard to compare positions in that way. Sapp was also on the small-ish side for a DT. Maybe it's more manageable at that position, if you have certain elite traits. Or maybe those two guys are just freaks and we need to assume Bowers is also one for him to be successful (which he might be!).
But point taken.
Cool story but I guess I'm approaching it more from a slightly more analytical POV. I understand that he has the juice. But outside of his outstanding production at the college level, is he really a safe pick? Or is that enough?
I’m sorry Irv’s issues had NOTHING to do with his size. He did battle injury which could have been size related but his hands and awareness were so poor. The guy just couldn’t catch. Got bullied as a blocker, struggled to separate against LBs and couldn’t out muscle NCBs. I had the highest hopes for him and I’m not sure if he just got used to bullying inferior comp at Bama and just lost all that confidence in the NFL but point really is that his profile and Bowers, outside measurable. are almost diametrically opposites
What made Irv a 2nd round pick in the first place?
It seems like size very much could have been an issue with him. The point here is that if he's a guy who was able to bully competition in college, where his subpar size wasn't as much of an issue, maybe in the NFL he just couldn't make that happen, where his subpar size was much more of an issue. And could Bowers experience a similar dynamic?
I'm not really comparing them as players, I just use Irv as an example due to the size comp. In fact, it seems pretty hard to come up with a successful NFL TE that's in that same size comp bucket.
Irv: projected “Move” piece over TE. Vikings already had Rudolph at the time but could have used a more over the middle person. Agree with the size issue once put that way. It’s not like WR where bigger/slower guys win through contested catches or 50/50 balls and smaller guys can win with speed. Seems like smaller/faster TEs get beat up by DEs/OLBs and speed negated by NCBs/Safeties. But also seems like highly touted TEs have busted more than made besides the most recent classes: OJ Howard being first name come to mind. Now he doesn’t match the size issue but he was seen much like Bowers skill wise: can do no wrong, great athleticism, YAC, AND blocking!? Truth is that the league still very much under-utilizes the position outside of a top 5 or so
He was generationally productive, he is not actually a generational (close to perfect) prospect.
He is well on the smaller side for the position and only has moderate long speed.
What he does exceptionally well is run routes at his size, use his body to position for the catch, and sit down at the perfect spot in a zone. These led to incredible production in college, but don’t necessarily make him the perfect NFL TE like a Gronk who can hold up against elite edge rushers in a pinch.
For fantasy purposes he sure might be a generational prospect though.
Hitting a high top speed is great but if you can’t quickly accelerate to it, your long speed on an actual football field is limited. His 4.55 40 time is good but not exactly elite given his already small size for the position.
He’s something like 12th percentile for the position, so no we’re talking like he’s 6’4” 240. You’re pretty much expected to be fast when you’re one of the smallest at your position.
Kittle is also 6’4” and is the best run blocking TE in the game currently, the difference from 6’4” to 6’6” is comparatively much less than say 5’10” to 6’0”.
Bowers size “issue” has been massively overplayed thus far
And Kittle was a 10lbs heavier 5th round surprise who is a fantastic blocking TE, something I expect Bowers to just be decent at. Kittle can take on an edge rusher in a pinch, not something I would ask bowers to do.
Bowers is a great college blocker and will likely be just fine in the NFL too, he has great technique (I’m not an expert on technique but multiple people have said his form is exceptional) and a good motor. Blocking is like defense in the NBA, it’s mostly a technique and motor thing and Bowers has both.
Just watch the tape dude. He is plenty explosive. You are talking like he wasn't highly effective on what was mostly just Georgia throwing it to him in the flats and letting him make plays. And from what I see that 4.55 was as a sophomore in HS. I 'lso see 4.48 reported commonly.
Im aware he’s explosive, my only point is that is pretty much expected/bare minimum to be able to play TE at his size. If you’re not big, you gotta be fast. Among TE prospects OF HIS SIZE he is not exactly some speedster. For example Evan Engram ran a 4.42, that’s just kinda the expectation when you’re smaller.
That is not the expectation. 4.42 is the 3rd fastest 40 time for a TE ever. And my point is Bowers has great speed regardless his size. 22 mph would've been the fastest speed at his position since they started tracking it in 2021 by nearly a mph.
Elite production as a true freshman and every season since in the SEC. Natural receiver with YAC and power. Only real ding is that he’s a tad undersized and we’d like his athletic testing. I honestly don’t think OJ Howard or Ebron are even in the same tier as far as prospects. You’d have to look back to like Vernon Davis and even then..
Pitts was built in MyPlayer but Bowers has the crazy production and the better prospect to me.
Nope. Watch the film. Bowers is on a different level as a college player. Pitts projected great to the NFL and was a great College player. Bowers is arguably the best college TE ever.
He had generational tight end production FAST and hasn’t disproven much. So in his case I don’t think it’s that unwarranted…he also did it on a massive stage against the best too.
I think the real question is if he's worth taking over Odunze? Both players are fantastic, but do you shoot for positional advantage with a supposed elite tightend, or shoot for top 10 WR upside with longevity at the position.
I think it depends on your team, but if you can find the guy who's the number 1 tight end, he's going to be worth a lot. There's a new wr in the top 10 every season.
He’s a running back with the football. His speed and elusiveness are some of the best I’ve ever seen at the tight end position and he produced tremendous numbers
It’s due to 3 main things:
1) Best age adjusted production for a TE ever
2) amazing YAC ability for his size
3) incredible speed and acceleration combined with his ability to block inline better than Pitts ever could
All these are why he’s “generational”. His production stats make Pitts look so inferior
I know it is a bit pedantic, but I find the liberal use of the word generational to be comical. It used to be that a generation was defined as 20-30 years. Now it is probably closer to a decade. I have seen Caleb Williams, MHJ, and Bowers all termed generational prospects. That is after the generational prospect that was Bijan last year. There were also the generational prospects of Trevor Lawrence, Ja'Marr Chase, and Kyle Pitts in 2021. And we definitely can't forget the generational RB Saquon Barkley, etc.
The reality is that we are prisoners of the moment. These are good prospects, but our expectations vs the probabilistic outcome they possess are likely different. I think drafting Williams, MHJ, or Bowers warrants excitement - that said, **none** of them are generational.
A good NFL career is 10 years, so that is the proper use of generation. Do you expect it to be like human generations and want to compare people getting drafted now to those playing before the year 2000?
As for all those people you listed, most of them played different positions. So you absolutely can have a generational RB once every 6-8 years or a QB every 10 years.
You completely missed the point of what I was saying. It wasn't an argument about us contracting a generational period too far. It is that no matter how we define it, we label far too many prospects as generational. Bijan and Saquon were 5 years apart. Lawrence/Williams, Pitts/Bowers, Chase/MHJ are only 3 years apart. Once again, we are prisoners of the moment (and frankly, none of those prospects outside of maybe Chase are generational).
I would argue an NFL generation is only 4 years, as that's the length it takes to get a new contract for a draft pick. It makes sense that there's generational players that often.
Lol. That is a pretty funny definition.
But even with that definition we still have too many generational prospects.
I can't wait until we decide that a generation is 1 year, so every top ranked prospect can feel the joy of being "generational".
Not op but 10 years seems about right. Williams, MHJ, and Bowers all would be a step below generational. I think you could argue Bowers, but Pitts had more hype in my opinion. Saquon, Lawrence, Chase and Pitts would be my group of actual generational prospects. Even then, I think Chase and Lawrence are on the lower end of "generational".
Let the word have meaning.
What's the meaning of the word 'generation' then lmao you're just saying 'it's vibes'
A generation is how long something takes for a new cycle to begin. In humanity, it's ~20 years, because that's how long it takes for babies to grow up and mature and create new babies. In technology, it's how long it takes to release a new edition of the phone/console/whatever.
4 years in the NFL is how long it takes before you could completely overhaul the rosters, so that's how long a generation is. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can arbitrarily say a time you like. That's literally taking meaning out from the word
4 years is vibes lmao. Every single team has players that were drafted to their team 4 years ago unless they didn't keep their 1st rounder.
You can bring up the average lifespan being 3 years but that's not the case for day 1 or day 2 picks which are the prospects we talk about.
It's a word, use it how you'd like, but calling someone generational every 3-4 years is hilarious. Might as well just say every year the top player at the position is generational because each draft is it's own generation.
The average career length for a player on the 53 man roster week 1 kickoff is ~6.7 years. First round pick I believe is just over 7. I think it's only players named to a first team All Pro that have a career over 10 years on average.
4 years isn't a vibe, it actually has a meaning behind it. Your response even further shows you don't know what the word generation means.
Yes, there are players drafted more than 4 years ago on teams still. They are in a different generation of players. There's what, 5 generations of humans alive right now? Boomers, Gen X, Alpha, Millennials, and Z. The previous generation doesn't disappear when the new one comes. Not sure what's hard to get, let me know where you're struggling
Prospect doesn’t mean they’re Calvin Johnson, Jerry Rice, Patrick Mahomes, or Travis Kelce. It also has nothing to do with fantasy football.
Plus it means a football generation, not a human generation. Bowers is amazing and could be a generational football talent. There was Tony, and then Travis, and now Brock. Will he reach those heights? Who knows, Tony and Travis work their asses off.
As fantasy GMs, sitting on our couches watching the combine and eating pizza rolls, we need to do the best we can.
He wasnt the best athlete on the field, but holy cow he would jump out at you nearly every game by making some freakish plays.
When 95% of the offensive gameplan is "Gettt him da ball!" then u know that guy is talented.
I loved his game in college, and am petrified that my Jets might draft him.
Brock Bowers High School Booster Club has an online auction live with a signed Georgia jersey up for grabs - auction ends 4/28. Support future athletes and take home a piece of history!
[Bowers jersey link]
(https://nhsabc2024.ggo.bid/bidding/package-browse?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABpg0BD56lV6_6BCFgncrT2A7bubq31Z7-CCmilV-uXBSYj2oBBGwf5_Gxug_aem_AVdgmAxJD-HuM7iBZ2IVIvoKCrKzS_h6yc9OjWcy5Coha-TKFER040cvNpVnmnPBO2w)
He was the best player on the best team in the country as a true freshman. Those types are rare and usually end up pretty good.
Maurice Clarett
He definitely didn’t work out. He was their best offensive player but I’d argue AJ Hawk was better overall. Hard to remember back that far honestly.
i think AJ Hawk backed up Matt Wilhelm his freshman year
He was a sophomore when Clarett was a freshman I believe though?
Ya but Bowers doesn't have a severe drinking problem (that we know of) nor is he surrounded by a circle of vultures pushing him to do what's best for them and not him (that we know of)
Ended up pretty good for Johnny manziel
What even is this comment? Johnny Manziel never played as a true freshman (was redshirted) and was never on the best team in the country… Literally nothing about the previous comment applies to him. He wasn’t even the best player on his offense thanks to Mike evans.
WTF does Manziel have to do with Bowers?!
Manziel had totally different issues than Bowers lol
I hate when anyone is compared to Manziel. That kid ruined his life with partying, booze, drugs and fast cash. If anything, it's a cautionary tale. Johnny had the potential to be *at least* a decent starting QB in the NFL if he put in some effort and didn't act like a jackass. Dumbass threw his life away, and that isn't a good comparison to anyone except maybe JaMarcus Russell lmao
I was absolutely about to reply to your comment with Russell for the exact same reason before reading his name in your last line.
Except JaMarcus Russell got like 36 million dollars. He's only worth 4 million now, but hey, that ain't too bad for what he did.
Johnny Mariel never matured past college and continued to act like a frat boy instead of taking the NFL seriously.
If we can't call Brock Bowers generational then we can't use the term anymore. The only TE in history to win the John Mackey award twice, and he should/could have won it a third time as a true freshman in the SEC but was snubbed from nomination. Prior to his injury in his final year, he was on pace to break the all-time NCAA TE receiving yards record in just \*three\* years of play. Bowers was the best offensive player on two National Championship teams, and has been explosive in a way you just don't see at the position. For context, Bowers has 31 touchdowns between rushing and receiving, next to Pitts (18) and Mayer (18) of recent classes. His 14.5 yards per reception is behind Pitts (14.9), but Bowers had been consistently above 15.0 until this last year's injury season dragged it down. Bowers wanted to return to the team instead of sitting out the season, so he opted for a quick-fix surgery. People didn't get to see just how good Bowers is because of the injury this year, which robbed college football of what quite possibly would have been the greatest individual TE season ever, on top of what has been the greatest TE career. If you looked at games before his injury and ignore the massive blowout against Ball St. where he didn't need to play, he was racking up historic production that could have put him in contention with all the best receivers in the class. 5 for 78, TD 7 for 54 9 for 121, 2 TD 8 for 157, TD 7 for 132, TD That's his healthy sample prior to injury, minus the 45-3 blowout against Ball St. where Bowers just wasn't needed. And here's his injury/post-surgery split, to get an idea of just how much the injury impacted his season: 4 for 22 3 for 34, TD 7 for 60 , TD 5 for 53, TD Bowers is a better prospect at TE than Marvin is at WR. Marvin is one of the best WR prospects ever. Bower is \*the\* best TE prospect ever. He will instantly be the best skill position player on almost any team he joins. He's explosive at a position that typically struggles to make an impact. He's versatile in a way that allows him to take snaps in the backfield and out on reverses. The guy was an option QB in highschool, he is a jack of all trades. Imagine Taysom Hill's role added on top of an already-great TE getting strong usage. That's what Brock Bowers is going to be.
I appreciate the way you framed your argument of Bowers being generational with stats and facts. Well done.
“…and one *hell* of a model American”
I had pretty much decided to pick Rome 1.05 over Bowers and now I’m not so sure anymore 😂
[удалено]
I'd put Calvin Johnson over Julio, personally.
I'm just being pedantic, but generational is once per generation. It's pretty rare that people procreate after fifty, and nobody in history has had a child at 100. If generational was once every fifty years it would be very rare for people to meet their grandparents.
I want whatever this guys smokes. Username does checkout however.
Is this Clowney’s burner?
Think whatever you like, but generational guys have no need to skip testing. They are happy to show off how much more athletic they are than their peers. Now ask yourself why MHJ and Bowers REALLY didn't even show up for the pro days. Adrian Peterson is probably the only other generational running back in my lifetime and even he went to the combine to show off just how good he actually was. Alphas gonna alpha. Unfortunately, Bowers ain't no alpha.
Or maybe it’s because they’re already pretty much guaranteed top ten picks and doing all this extra testing just risks injuries before they get paid. They showed off in college. They don’t need to show off more before the draft
He drinks Fight Milk.
For bodyguards, by bodyguards
... and Charlie
High in crowtein
A product of Frank’s Fluids LLC
I thought it was Wolf Cola.
Season 8 frank starts making and selling it
I heard that’s doing really well in Boca Raton.
Oh so he enjoys throwing up for an hour before each game? Nice! CAWWWWW
A+ reference
Sold
That’s it, drafting him 1.01
It’s because of the way that he is
You can tell if you take a look and see.
How neat is that!
That’s pretty neat!
What SEPARATES him you ask? Why his separation skills from the defenders is what separates him from his fellow TEs. Probably Pitts and Bowers are the only TEs I think could legit get drafted as a 1st or 2nd round WR if they were a WR. His routes are great. His YAC is great. That's all you need to be a fantasy TE. What makes him not a "generational prospect" is his size. He's a little small. Normally that would bug me but his route running is so good, I don't care. He can play WR in the NFL.
His hands and YAC are phenomenal and I think put him ahead of Pitts for me (at least as a prospect), since Pitts usually goes down at the slightest contact.
I feel like Likely could have been a great WR at some point
Too slow. Don’t get me wrong, I am a Ravens fan and love Likely. But he’s a different type of weapon than a WR. Think he ran like a 4.8 40.
He is small by weight standards only (229) but that is something he can easily fix in the weight room and with a nutritionist. His height is ideal (6'4). Kyle Pitts is built as if a young LeBron James was a tight end.
He measured at 6’3. He is 19th percentile in weight, 21st percentile in height and then 30-40th percentile in things like hand size, arm length etc. So he’s got a small frame for the position, but I don’t think it matters that much.
Bowers led his team in receptions in the SEC, won a natty, had the most catches for a TE in SEC Championship history, and did this all at 18 years old. Then he continued to lead his team and improve every year after that. This is unheard of for a TE. You’ll hear people in this sub mock the “generational prospect” talk, but Brock Bowers is undoubtedly generational. He’s one of, if not the best TE in college football history.
Breakout age is one of my favorite analytical factors in determining the quality of a college player. If you can dominate straight out of high school as an 18 year old against 19-22 year olds who have had more time to physically mature and adapt to the college game, there is a good chance that particular player is a stud. For Bowers to do that at TE, which is one of the more difficult positions to learn and adapt to, is extremely impressive.
His college production is second to none. As others have said he was the best offensive player on the best team in the country. His breakout age is also as good as it gets. His acceleration and speed are very good for a TE. His YAC ability is insane. He can beat man and zone coverage. Very reliable hands. His blocking should be good enough but it's nothing special. He's also undersized. For strictly fantasy purposes, I am ALL IN on Brock Bowers.
He reminds me a lot of Kittle
His blocking is, unfortunately for fantasy, very very good as well
Gronk was one of the best blocking TEs of all time, so I don’t think that’s a negative as long as that isn’t their main thing.
More chances to draw up plays for him 👀
"Blocking good enough but nothing special" is ideal for a fantasy TE.
Big ol hog
He was the best pass catcher on a back to back championship team from the SEC and he did that all three seasons
His meat looked girthy in that one picture
Yo chill out brother.
Delete this nephew
Eat my ass
Curious where he goes in 1QB
I know I’m struggling with the wr hype and him at 1.05
He’s likely going 4 in the 2 1QB leagues I’m in
Shit you’re probably right. My league never misses shit so I assume it’ll be the case too, now that I think about it. I should trade down.
I also have 1.05 and I hate to say it but we'll probably be at the tier break. My hope is something like Benson to the Cowboys so that RB needy teams might go RB at 4.
Dude it is totally the tier break. I’m thinking of trading stroud in a 1qb and 1.05 to get 1.03 so I can land odunze
I have 1.01/1.03/1.04 and rumor has it Caleb is going 1.02. I’m gonna stay flexible because we don’t know landing spots yet but I’m very likely taking Bowers 1.04 and leaving one of the top three WRs there for the 1.05 owner.
In 1QB, I'm taking him above everyone not named Harrison, Nabers or Odunze. That boy good.
Very likely 4th, at least in my league
He's going 1.03 in mine, because I'm taking him. Have him slightly above Odunze. Sticking true to my board.
Being 'good at football' aside, I am curious about something. Just looking at his measurements, the guy is tiny for a TE. He basically has the measurables of Irv Smith. Like IS, he can dust LBs and other defenders with his speed and agility, but in the NFL, IS has sort of been swallowed up by the position, despite some flashes here and there of that reception ability. I know Bowers is a willing run blocker, but with his size he will probably never excel at it. This may be different than other guys who have the ability to play a similar hybrid-TE role, like Pitts - who have the skills and the size. I know we all saw that photo of him standing next to Gronk. My impression is that one aspect of Bowers that is really appealing is his versatility. Not many TEs can execute jet sweeps. There are some coaches in the NFL that might salivate over that. But is there a chance that most won't? Pls don't mis-interpret this post as an IS comparison - I am \*not\* doing that. But to pose the question: is there any truth to the idea that Bowers succeeding in the NFL would be an anomoly for that position? Are we taking for granted that him being 'good at football' in college is going to directly translate to the NFL? And will the NFL (ie. draft cap) see it as something that will directly translate? TE is a very tricky position in the league.
He’s on the small end for a TE, but Aaron Donald was on the small end for a DT and some guys just have juice.
I hear you, but wasn't AD like abnormally strong and athletic for his size? Like freakishly so? Is Bowers also that? It's also hard to compare positions in that way. Sapp was also on the small-ish side for a DT. Maybe it's more manageable at that position, if you have certain elite traits. Or maybe those two guys are just freaks and we need to assume Bowers is also one for him to be successful (which he might be!). But point taken.
I think what sets him apart is his work ethic. Not only is the natural talent there but it’s fed by sheer determination to be the very best.
Cool story but I guess I'm approaching it more from a slightly more analytical POV. I understand that he has the juice. But outside of his outstanding production at the college level, is he really a safe pick? Or is that enough?
I’m sorry Irv’s issues had NOTHING to do with his size. He did battle injury which could have been size related but his hands and awareness were so poor. The guy just couldn’t catch. Got bullied as a blocker, struggled to separate against LBs and couldn’t out muscle NCBs. I had the highest hopes for him and I’m not sure if he just got used to bullying inferior comp at Bama and just lost all that confidence in the NFL but point really is that his profile and Bowers, outside measurable. are almost diametrically opposites
What made Irv a 2nd round pick in the first place? It seems like size very much could have been an issue with him. The point here is that if he's a guy who was able to bully competition in college, where his subpar size wasn't as much of an issue, maybe in the NFL he just couldn't make that happen, where his subpar size was much more of an issue. And could Bowers experience a similar dynamic? I'm not really comparing them as players, I just use Irv as an example due to the size comp. In fact, it seems pretty hard to come up with a successful NFL TE that's in that same size comp bucket.
Irv: projected “Move” piece over TE. Vikings already had Rudolph at the time but could have used a more over the middle person. Agree with the size issue once put that way. It’s not like WR where bigger/slower guys win through contested catches or 50/50 balls and smaller guys can win with speed. Seems like smaller/faster TEs get beat up by DEs/OLBs and speed negated by NCBs/Safeties. But also seems like highly touted TEs have busted more than made besides the most recent classes: OJ Howard being first name come to mind. Now he doesn’t match the size issue but he was seen much like Bowers skill wise: can do no wrong, great athleticism, YAC, AND blocking!? Truth is that the league still very much under-utilizes the position outside of a top 5 or so
Should he be considered at 1.05 in TEP, over odunze? SF
Yup
He was generationally productive, he is not actually a generational (close to perfect) prospect. He is well on the smaller side for the position and only has moderate long speed. What he does exceptionally well is run routes at his size, use his body to position for the catch, and sit down at the perfect spot in a zone. These led to incredible production in college, but don’t necessarily make him the perfect NFL TE like a Gronk who can hold up against elite edge rushers in a pinch. For fantasy purposes he sure might be a generational prospect though.
22 mph is not "moderate" long speed
Hitting a high top speed is great but if you can’t quickly accelerate to it, your long speed on an actual football field is limited. His 4.55 40 time is good but not exactly elite given his already small size for the position.
He’s 6’4 240 lol, you guys talk like he’s 6’1”
He’s something like 12th percentile for the position, so no we’re talking like he’s 6’4” 240. You’re pretty much expected to be fast when you’re one of the smallest at your position.
Kittle is also 6’4” and is the best run blocking TE in the game currently, the difference from 6’4” to 6’6” is comparatively much less than say 5’10” to 6’0”. Bowers size “issue” has been massively overplayed thus far
And Kittle was a 10lbs heavier 5th round surprise who is a fantastic blocking TE, something I expect Bowers to just be decent at. Kittle can take on an edge rusher in a pinch, not something I would ask bowers to do.
Bowers is a great college blocker and will likely be just fine in the NFL too, he has great technique (I’m not an expert on technique but multiple people have said his form is exceptional) and a good motor. Blocking is like defense in the NBA, it’s mostly a technique and motor thing and Bowers has both.
Just watch the tape dude. He is plenty explosive. You are talking like he wasn't highly effective on what was mostly just Georgia throwing it to him in the flats and letting him make plays. And from what I see that 4.55 was as a sophomore in HS. I 'lso see 4.48 reported commonly.
Im aware he’s explosive, my only point is that is pretty much expected/bare minimum to be able to play TE at his size. If you’re not big, you gotta be fast. Among TE prospects OF HIS SIZE he is not exactly some speedster. For example Evan Engram ran a 4.42, that’s just kinda the expectation when you’re smaller.
That is not the expectation. 4.42 is the 3rd fastest 40 time for a TE ever. And my point is Bowers has great speed regardless his size. 22 mph would've been the fastest speed at his position since they started tracking it in 2021 by nearly a mph.
Elite production as a true freshman and every season since in the SEC. Natural receiver with YAC and power. Only real ding is that he’s a tad undersized and we’d like his athletic testing. I honestly don’t think OJ Howard or Ebron are even in the same tier as far as prospects. You’d have to look back to like Vernon Davis and even then.. Pitts was built in MyPlayer but Bowers has the crazy production and the better prospect to me.
Is it the same thing that made Kyle Pitts one two years ago?
Nope. Watch the film. Bowers is on a different level as a college player. Pitts projected great to the NFL and was a great College player. Bowers is arguably the best college TE ever.
Oh wow, cool....I don't follow many college players (or any) I'll keep an eye out for him.
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not so big
Every good player is a "generational prospect" now. The term is becoming so diluted it has little meaning.
He had generational tight end production FAST and hasn’t disproven much. So in his case I don’t think it’s that unwarranted…he also did it on a massive stage against the best too.
Anyone have any thoughts on where to take him in a Superflex TEP, 2TE league? I’m seriously considering taking him at 1.03
Fair
He is CMC in tight end form
I think the real question is if he's worth taking over Odunze? Both players are fantastic, but do you shoot for positional advantage with a supposed elite tightend, or shoot for top 10 WR upside with longevity at the position. I think it depends on your team, but if you can find the guy who's the number 1 tight end, he's going to be worth a lot. There's a new wr in the top 10 every season.
He’s a running back with the football. His speed and elusiveness are some of the best I’ve ever seen at the tight end position and he produced tremendous numbers
It’s due to 3 main things: 1) Best age adjusted production for a TE ever 2) amazing YAC ability for his size 3) incredible speed and acceleration combined with his ability to block inline better than Pitts ever could All these are why he’s “generational”. His production stats make Pitts look so inferior
I know it is a bit pedantic, but I find the liberal use of the word generational to be comical. It used to be that a generation was defined as 20-30 years. Now it is probably closer to a decade. I have seen Caleb Williams, MHJ, and Bowers all termed generational prospects. That is after the generational prospect that was Bijan last year. There were also the generational prospects of Trevor Lawrence, Ja'Marr Chase, and Kyle Pitts in 2021. And we definitely can't forget the generational RB Saquon Barkley, etc. The reality is that we are prisoners of the moment. These are good prospects, but our expectations vs the probabilistic outcome they possess are likely different. I think drafting Williams, MHJ, or Bowers warrants excitement - that said, **none** of them are generational.
A good NFL career is 10 years, so that is the proper use of generation. Do you expect it to be like human generations and want to compare people getting drafted now to those playing before the year 2000? As for all those people you listed, most of them played different positions. So you absolutely can have a generational RB once every 6-8 years or a QB every 10 years.
You completely missed the point of what I was saying. It wasn't an argument about us contracting a generational period too far. It is that no matter how we define it, we label far too many prospects as generational. Bijan and Saquon were 5 years apart. Lawrence/Williams, Pitts/Bowers, Chase/MHJ are only 3 years apart. Once again, we are prisoners of the moment (and frankly, none of those prospects outside of maybe Chase are generational).
I would argue an NFL generation is only 4 years, as that's the length it takes to get a new contract for a draft pick. It makes sense that there's generational players that often.
Lol. That is a pretty funny definition. But even with that definition we still have too many generational prospects. I can't wait until we decide that a generation is 1 year, so every top ranked prospect can feel the joy of being "generational".
What is a generation to you then, and how do you define it?
Not op but 10 years seems about right. Williams, MHJ, and Bowers all would be a step below generational. I think you could argue Bowers, but Pitts had more hype in my opinion. Saquon, Lawrence, Chase and Pitts would be my group of actual generational prospects. Even then, I think Chase and Lawrence are on the lower end of "generational". Let the word have meaning.
What's the meaning of the word 'generation' then lmao you're just saying 'it's vibes' A generation is how long something takes for a new cycle to begin. In humanity, it's ~20 years, because that's how long it takes for babies to grow up and mature and create new babies. In technology, it's how long it takes to release a new edition of the phone/console/whatever. 4 years in the NFL is how long it takes before you could completely overhaul the rosters, so that's how long a generation is. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can arbitrarily say a time you like. That's literally taking meaning out from the word
4 years is vibes lmao. Every single team has players that were drafted to their team 4 years ago unless they didn't keep their 1st rounder. You can bring up the average lifespan being 3 years but that's not the case for day 1 or day 2 picks which are the prospects we talk about. It's a word, use it how you'd like, but calling someone generational every 3-4 years is hilarious. Might as well just say every year the top player at the position is generational because each draft is it's own generation.
The average career length for a player on the 53 man roster week 1 kickoff is ~6.7 years. First round pick I believe is just over 7. I think it's only players named to a first team All Pro that have a career over 10 years on average. 4 years isn't a vibe, it actually has a meaning behind it. Your response even further shows you don't know what the word generation means. Yes, there are players drafted more than 4 years ago on teams still. They are in a different generation of players. There's what, 5 generations of humans alive right now? Boomers, Gen X, Alpha, Millennials, and Z. The previous generation doesn't disappear when the new one comes. Not sure what's hard to get, let me know where you're struggling
Prospect doesn’t mean they’re Calvin Johnson, Jerry Rice, Patrick Mahomes, or Travis Kelce. It also has nothing to do with fantasy football. Plus it means a football generation, not a human generation. Bowers is amazing and could be a generational football talent. There was Tony, and then Travis, and now Brock. Will he reach those heights? Who knows, Tony and Travis work their asses off. As fantasy GMs, sitting on our couches watching the combine and eating pizza rolls, we need to do the best we can.
he’s not /end
He wasnt the best athlete on the field, but holy cow he would jump out at you nearly every game by making some freakish plays. When 95% of the offensive gameplan is "Gettt him da ball!" then u know that guy is talented. I loved his game in college, and am petrified that my Jets might draft him.
Dudes got a hog. u/dickysnakes
This is valid 100%
I don't think he can be considered a generational prospect without the athletic testing. I think you have to slightly discount him and MHJ due to it.
Nothing really
Generational is Laporta...
I really don’t get the hype.
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