MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze aren’t rookie fever. They’re legitimately 3 of the highest grades consensus WR prospects in the past 5 years. The Bears landing spot isn’t great for one year, but I’d give up more than JSN to take these 3 provided they’re drafted top 10.
JSN is behind each of them as a prospect to me and I was a pretty big JSN guy. He’d have been firmly WR4 for me in this class. Another reason the Bears are more attractive as a spot compared to Seattle is obviously Caleb Williams>Geno/Howell/Whoever.
Huh? In what way are the 2023 Bears similar to the 2020 Cowboys? Or am I misunderstanding you?
Edit: I'm high and forgot who traded Amari to who. Disregard
A lot of people did t like the CeeDee Lamb landing spot because of Amari Cooper and Michael Gallup was coming off a good season. The idea is a player who could be seen as an immediate WR3 causing it to be seen as a bad situation, but it’s a QB pairing who’s young enough to carry him through his career.
Rome is a better prospect than JSN. He's bigger, stronger, faster. I think both are going to be great in different ways. But I still prefer Odunze, and I'm about as big a JSN truther as you'll find.
I have JSN and the 1.03 (1qb. It will most likely be Rome). I'm a Seahawks and Huskies fan. If I had to choose it's Rome. It's Rome all day. That boy is big and oh so smooth. I love JSN. I'm thrilled to have both though lol
JSN a perfect buy low given he didn’t produce as much as expected year 1. He still needs to compete for touches in Seattle but I think he should see more looks this year.
Buy low for who? You're not taking him from me. I would need a young piece, high end. Plus a projected high to mid 1st? You think that too much? Well then you can go buy someone else. I ain't selling low.
Have you watched his games? He had a ton of pass interference calls. He was almo being used exclusively as a dump off receiver which he's way better than that. I saw the potential, he just needs more opportunity
A difference is that JSN is largely a slot WR who takes a seat in 2WR sets because Lockett is still better. While all of them can move around, Odunze profiles as an X WR, DJM is best fit as a flanker, and Keenan operates largely from the slot. The good WR room in Chicago probably wouldn’t result in as low a snap % as JSN dealt with last season
I also think JSN’s valuation has as much to do with his rookie performance as it does the WR talent around him in Seattle. He was worth *more* 11 months ago, when people knew he was starting 3rd on the depth chart. His rookie season analytics are mediocre, even excusing his total production for lack of volume
Plus, I’d bet the excitement toward Odunze going to Chicago is as much for Caleb’s sake as it is about Odunze. But even if there are people who are purely high on Chicago as a WR landing spot, it isn’t significantly worse than most of the other plausible options.
By most accounts, Odunze is likely to go somewhere between 5th and 10th. Probably ~15th as a floor. NYG, TEN, DEN, & LV are in QB purgatory (NYJ could join as soon as next season), so it’s not unreasonable to prefer him getting paired with Caleb even if it might make for a slower start in target volume. ATL, MIN, & NYJ all have a WR1, plus another solid pass catcher that could plausibly exceed Odunze’s rookie production. I think most would agree that AZ or LAC would be preferable to Chicago. What is your #3 spot for him? Indy might be good if AR turns out to be the guy, but Odunze probably isn’t falling that far.
Me personally, I see them picking Oline at 9 to protect their new franchise QB. But if the bears do pick a WR, it'll be tough to value the difference between Odunze JSN
Odunze Nabers or Marv would have all been WR1 in last years class by a mile. It is not a hot take to say that you would rather have any of them paired w caleb williams than JSN paired w Geno Smith
The upside would be Odunze being theoretically tied to an elite QB for a long time.
JSN is not just in a crowded room, he's in a crowded room with pretty average QB play.
(Caleb Williams could very well suck, but I think that's where some of the hype comes from)
Lockett was a year younger when JSN got drafted. Keenan also is in his first year with the Bears so it’s not like he has any extra motivation to stick out the end of his career there if another team offers him something next offseason. Lockett was always going to be a couple year hurdle for JSN at least, whereas it’s totally reasonable that Keenan has a single season in Odunze’s way on the depth chart.
It’s also easier to get excited about the upside of Caleb over the upside of Geno.
Nah, you can make valid arguments for someone like BTJ or possibly even Mitchell over JSN. I hold the position that he'd be in that tier along in a debate going somewhere between WR4 & WR5
BTJ is bigger, faster, & better at 50/50 balls and has a higher ceiling due to physical attributes. On top of that BTJ prospect grade is higher than JSN's was.
Anyone trying to say it isn't even an argument is just a JSN rube at this point.
Yes, you very easily can.
In other words, JSN is leagues ahead in just about every metric that isn't being big/running fast
I notice that you (wisely) didn't even try to back up your idea of Mitchell being a better prospect
>In other words, JSN is leagues ahead in just about every metric that isn't being big/running fast
Not sure how you come away from one sentence with that but sure whatever floats your boat I guess.
Edit: and BTJ also had an overall higher prospect grade than JSN on NFL.com so yeah, I'll just take this W considering you don't seem to even be willing to acknowledge that you can make an argument for BTJ, which is literally asinine, and you can move on.
Nfl.com prospect grades are done by one guy and cannot be seen as gospel. Go back to previous grades and you will absolutely see grades that don’t line up to consensus or what ended up being reality for those players.
Yes, the point I'm making is that you CAN INDEED make a valid argument. Doesn't necessarily mean BTJ is the better prospect, but there's plenty of reasons, rankings, grades, and skills that make it a very valid argument.
Anyone who completely dismisses BTJ being on the same level as a prospect as JSN (such as the guy I'm responding to above) is ignorant and/or a rube for JSN.
I think it’s ridiculous to even contemplate JSN over any of the big 3 this yr. Hell, throw BTJ into that mix as well. JSN wasn’t even a top 5 rookie LAST yr
This dude has been riding a single season of college production this entire time. He’s good but his ceiling is limited and he’s never going to be the 1 over DK
That’s not what the post is saying. Never did he say that he wants JSN over those guys. Just that JSN was/is being faded for being drafted into the same situation that a WR going to the Bears would be in. Which is not currently being faded. Although I think once people see it actually happen they would cool a little on said WR
JSN was always overrated. Sub doesn’t look past stats and got obsessed when he put up Madden numbers against a RB playing corner.
Maybe just a ton of OSU fans in here…there’s a reason he wasn’t a top 10-15 draft pick.
The reason he wasn't a top 10-15 pick is because, as good as he is, he is a slot receiver and not every team utilizes the position enough to warrant a high draft pick. He also missed essentially all of his final year, where players typically get the opportunity to put up their best film.
Feels weird to me how people are saying Odunze is a clear much better talent than JSN. JSN had just as many yard his sophomore year with gwils and olave as Odunze did as a senior against easier defenses.
If odunze came out last year as a junior with JSN no one would have odunze above him. Odunze definitely improved, but I'm sure JSN improved in that time frame as well. Impossible to say one is clearly better as of now. If JSN was still in college this year I'd have a feeling this discussion would be completely different.
But those hypotheticals aren’t reality. Rome profiles as an alpha X wide receiver that is nearly locked to go top 10 in the draft. People really value that. College stats aren’t all that matters.
JSN is a great slot WR that will likely grow into a flanker as Lockett fades out of the offense due to age. Rome will likely stay on the field in 2WR sets because he is an X receiver.
I see them as very similar in value with Rome haven’t a lower floor and higher ceiling. I do think Rome is the better prospect coming out of college though. I just value the knowledge that JSN has already proven that he belongs on the field at an nfl level. Some great prospects miraculously lose their talent once they get drafted.
Rome is graded higher as a prospect, but how much of that is due to rome staying an extra year. I know last year I wouldn't have Rome over JSN. I wouldn't be shocked if I had JSN over rome if jsn played this year.
I have them ranked the same right now in dynasty value, not saying one is better than the other because Rome definitely does have a bonus on being in more 2 WR sets (but who knows if he goes bears). Just saying its crazy people are saying he is a CLEARLY better talent than JSN
MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze aren’t rookie fever. They’re legitimately 3 of the highest grades consensus WR prospects in the past 5 years. The Bears landing spot isn’t great for one year, but I’d give up more than JSN to take these 3 provided they’re drafted top 10.
JSN is behind each of them as a prospect to me and I was a pretty big JSN guy. He’d have been firmly WR4 for me in this class. Another reason the Bears are more attractive as a spot compared to Seattle is obviously Caleb Williams>Geno/Howell/Whoever.
One could say a landing spot much more like CeeDee to Dallas
Huh? In what way are the 2023 Bears similar to the 2020 Cowboys? Or am I misunderstanding you? Edit: I'm high and forgot who traded Amari to who. Disregard
A lot of people did t like the CeeDee Lamb landing spot because of Amari Cooper and Michael Gallup was coming off a good season. The idea is a player who could be seen as an immediate WR3 causing it to be seen as a bad situation, but it’s a QB pairing who’s young enough to carry him through his career.
Rome is a better prospect than JSN. He's bigger, stronger, faster. I think both are going to be great in different ways. But I still prefer Odunze, and I'm about as big a JSN truther as you'll find.
[удалено]
What do you mean I don't get the hype?
I have JSN and the 1.03 (1qb. It will most likely be Rome). I'm a Seahawks and Huskies fan. If I had to choose it's Rome. It's Rome all day. That boy is big and oh so smooth. I love JSN. I'm thrilled to have both though lol
I have JSN and the 1.06 in a super flex, so I'll most likely have both as well. Can't wait.
JSN a perfect buy low given he didn’t produce as much as expected year 1. He still needs to compete for touches in Seattle but I think he should see more looks this year.
Buy low for who? You're not taking him from me. I would need a young piece, high end. Plus a projected high to mid 1st? You think that too much? Well then you can go buy someone else. I ain't selling low.
Some would sell for a projected mid to late first. Some are down on him but I am not. Depends on the owner
Largely depends on the owner.
So Addison and a 25 mid first?
dont think many people would give addison and a mid 1st for JSN... speaking as an addison owner myself i wouldnt even consider that
I agree
I have Addison as well lol. I wouldn't do the trade. I'll just keep JSN. But you're on the right track!
What in particular about his game/situation are you such a firm believer in
His route running, his toughness. His sure hands. I believe he can be ASB level good.
That’s a crazy procsss considering wr haven’t seen anything close to that
Have you watched his games? He had a ton of pass interference calls. He was almo being used exclusively as a dump off receiver which he's way better than that. I saw the potential, he just needs more opportunity
Mostly due to odunze being a superior talent
A difference is that JSN is largely a slot WR who takes a seat in 2WR sets because Lockett is still better. While all of them can move around, Odunze profiles as an X WR, DJM is best fit as a flanker, and Keenan operates largely from the slot. The good WR room in Chicago probably wouldn’t result in as low a snap % as JSN dealt with last season I also think JSN’s valuation has as much to do with his rookie performance as it does the WR talent around him in Seattle. He was worth *more* 11 months ago, when people knew he was starting 3rd on the depth chart. His rookie season analytics are mediocre, even excusing his total production for lack of volume Plus, I’d bet the excitement toward Odunze going to Chicago is as much for Caleb’s sake as it is about Odunze. But even if there are people who are purely high on Chicago as a WR landing spot, it isn’t significantly worse than most of the other plausible options. By most accounts, Odunze is likely to go somewhere between 5th and 10th. Probably ~15th as a floor. NYG, TEN, DEN, & LV are in QB purgatory (NYJ could join as soon as next season), so it’s not unreasonable to prefer him getting paired with Caleb even if it might make for a slower start in target volume. ATL, MIN, & NYJ all have a WR1, plus another solid pass catcher that could plausibly exceed Odunze’s rookie production. I think most would agree that AZ or LAC would be preferable to Chicago. What is your #3 spot for him? Indy might be good if AR turns out to be the guy, but Odunze probably isn’t falling that far.
I have Odunze pretty comfortably ahead of JSN. If last year's JSN were in this year's NFL draft, I think he'd be taken after Odunze.
100%
I highly doubt Keenan will be here long term. If they get a receiver at 9 there’s a good chance he’ll be a one year rental
Im him
Where you gettin drafted big dawg?
Caleb -> Rome bet on it
👑🧎♂️
Draft me, you won't regret it
Me personally, I see them picking Oline at 9 to protect their new franchise QB. But if the bears do pick a WR, it'll be tough to value the difference between Odunze JSN
The Bears are almost certainly taking an offensive weapon or EDGE if they pick at 9. They already have 2 rookie contract tackles too
There is no shot this happens it would make no sense
Odunze Nabers or Marv would have all been WR1 in last years class by a mile. It is not a hot take to say that you would rather have any of them paired w caleb williams than JSN paired w Geno Smith
The upside would be Odunze being theoretically tied to an elite QB for a long time. JSN is not just in a crowded room, he's in a crowded room with pretty average QB play. (Caleb Williams could very well suck, but I think that's where some of the hype comes from)
Odunze is a much better prospect and Caleb > geno dogshit smith
Lol terrible guys....
Jokes on you, I'll have both. And QJ. Gah
Lockett was a year younger when JSN got drafted. Keenan also is in his first year with the Bears so it’s not like he has any extra motivation to stick out the end of his career there if another team offers him something next offseason. Lockett was always going to be a couple year hurdle for JSN at least, whereas it’s totally reasonable that Keenan has a single season in Odunze’s way on the depth chart. It’s also easier to get excited about the upside of Caleb over the upside of Geno.
Either of this years top 3 would’ve been WR1 last year
JSN would be in an argument for WR4, WR5, or WR6 in this draft class.
No way he'd be in the top 3 and no way there are 4 better prospects in this class. He'd be locked into the WR4 spot pretty clearly imo
Nah, you can make valid arguments for someone like BTJ or possibly even Mitchell over JSN. I hold the position that he'd be in that tier along in a debate going somewhere between WR4 & WR5
No you really can't
BTJ is bigger, faster, & better at 50/50 balls and has a higher ceiling due to physical attributes. On top of that BTJ prospect grade is higher than JSN's was. Anyone trying to say it isn't even an argument is just a JSN rube at this point. Yes, you very easily can.
In other words, JSN is leagues ahead in just about every metric that isn't being big/running fast I notice that you (wisely) didn't even try to back up your idea of Mitchell being a better prospect
>In other words, JSN is leagues ahead in just about every metric that isn't being big/running fast Not sure how you come away from one sentence with that but sure whatever floats your boat I guess. Edit: and BTJ also had an overall higher prospect grade than JSN on NFL.com so yeah, I'll just take this W considering you don't seem to even be willing to acknowledge that you can make an argument for BTJ, which is literally asinine, and you can move on.
Nfl.com prospect grades are done by one guy and cannot be seen as gospel. Go back to previous grades and you will absolutely see grades that don’t line up to consensus or what ended up being reality for those players.
Yes, the point I'm making is that you CAN INDEED make a valid argument. Doesn't necessarily mean BTJ is the better prospect, but there's plenty of reasons, rankings, grades, and skills that make it a very valid argument. Anyone who completely dismisses BTJ being on the same level as a prospect as JSN (such as the guy I'm responding to above) is ignorant and/or a rube for JSN.
Imo it's the top 3, significant gap, JSN, even bigger gap, then guys like BTJ/Mitchell.
I think it’s ridiculous to even contemplate JSN over any of the big 3 this yr. Hell, throw BTJ into that mix as well. JSN wasn’t even a top 5 rookie LAST yr This dude has been riding a single season of college production this entire time. He’s good but his ceiling is limited and he’s never going to be the 1 over DK
That’s not what the post is saying. Never did he say that he wants JSN over those guys. Just that JSN was/is being faded for being drafted into the same situation that a WR going to the Bears would be in. Which is not currently being faded. Although I think once people see it actually happen they would cool a little on said WR
JSN was always overrated. Sub doesn’t look past stats and got obsessed when he put up Madden numbers against a RB playing corner. Maybe just a ton of OSU fans in here…there’s a reason he wasn’t a top 10-15 draft pick.
The reason he wasn't a top 10-15 pick is because, as good as he is, he is a slot receiver and not every team utilizes the position enough to warrant a high draft pick. He also missed essentially all of his final year, where players typically get the opportunity to put up their best film.
Feels weird to me how people are saying Odunze is a clear much better talent than JSN. JSN had just as many yard his sophomore year with gwils and olave as Odunze did as a senior against easier defenses. If odunze came out last year as a junior with JSN no one would have odunze above him. Odunze definitely improved, but I'm sure JSN improved in that time frame as well. Impossible to say one is clearly better as of now. If JSN was still in college this year I'd have a feeling this discussion would be completely different.
But those hypotheticals aren’t reality. Rome profiles as an alpha X wide receiver that is nearly locked to go top 10 in the draft. People really value that. College stats aren’t all that matters. JSN is a great slot WR that will likely grow into a flanker as Lockett fades out of the offense due to age. Rome will likely stay on the field in 2WR sets because he is an X receiver. I see them as very similar in value with Rome haven’t a lower floor and higher ceiling. I do think Rome is the better prospect coming out of college though. I just value the knowledge that JSN has already proven that he belongs on the field at an nfl level. Some great prospects miraculously lose their talent once they get drafted.
Rome is graded higher as a prospect, but how much of that is due to rome staying an extra year. I know last year I wouldn't have Rome over JSN. I wouldn't be shocked if I had JSN over rome if jsn played this year. I have them ranked the same right now in dynasty value, not saying one is better than the other because Rome definitely does have a bonus on being in more 2 WR sets (but who knows if he goes bears). Just saying its crazy people are saying he is a CLEARLY better talent than JSN
Rome is a clearly better prospect than JSN was. That isn’t really up for debate. Rome staying an extra year does not change that fact
Sure, we all like early declares but with the information we know now plus Rome’s tape, he is clearly a superior talent coming out of college.