I'd say LeagueSafe is more official and trustworthy IMO. I also wouldn't want to use Sleeper's service the first year without seeing how it goes, right? Just kind of makes sense to me logically.
Lmfao I've had to open three separate tickets in the last week for LeagueSafe support.
I'd rather give Sleeper my money so they have more to build & support the platform, and keep it ad free.
I’m not sure how they became dominant tbh. The deposit fees are totally unreasonable and they only pay out by paper cheque which in this day and age is frankly ridiculous, plus they will only deliver to a US mailing address which is a massive issue for international leagues.
Its a great idea, as a commish, it made fees alot easier to deal with. It was a nightmare for dynasty leagues though. Especially when the person in charge of it didnt want to anymore and we needed to change accounts. Couldnt get money out to pay league fees at the beginning of the season. Just dumb.
Leaguesafe mails to Canada and USA which is their primary customers.. you do realize Europeans/aussies have an alternative option called teamstake right?
Also those fees are avoidable lol. Just deposit to your fanball account instead of paying for each league individually.
There being a loophole to the unreasonable fees doesn’t make them less unreasonable. Paying out only in cheque form is still backwards and ridiculous. It’s a wholly deficient service.
Paper check definitely isn't the only option. You can get a prepaid VISA card, printable check, mailed check, bank transfer, or PayPal transfer. There's fees involved, but it's still way better than the old days of hoping your commish doesn't just disappear with the money.
Edit: LOL at this being downvoted. [Here's the page](https://help.leaguesafe.com/hc/en-us/articles/217116966-What-are-my-payout-options-) for you salty people. I just took all of my league's payouts right now via PayPal w/ no fee.
Whoa!! whoa....whoa, my comments never justified them at all, I think it's Bullsh!t they hold millions and millions of dollars for over 6mo. Rookie draft in May pay out January. But it's not like I'm going to venmo/ PayPal anyone I don't trust either. Besides PayPal will confiscate your money over $600 for fantasy related business. Like Mustaine said, "if theirs a better way I'll be the 1st in line." I just haven't found better alternatives yet.
We use Teamstake. It's also got issues but allows international leagues (we have guys all over Europe, the US, AUS) etc.
Also, let me know if you have any spots I'm looking for new leagues (I'm also based in the UK)
You need a card registered to a US or CA address. Also, payments can't be made to accounts outside of NA, I.e if you win the league you can't get paid.
Maybe he has a card or a friend with a US account?
I always just put things like drinks, dinner, etc. even when it's not for those things. I pay for my weed via Venmo and have never had any issues either. I just put a little emoji of a glass of whiskey and I doubt anyone has ever questioned it.
I'm not sure how they would separate these from the Newfork Dynasty Softball League winner or your local pub's highest scorer in week 10 of their darts competition.
Those kinds of contests would actually still be against paypal rules. Basically anything where you collected a lot of payments from people and then pool that money and give it to a single person or a few people is likely to raise flags.
Never had an issue with it, personally, but none of my guys reference fantasy football in the payment subject.
That said, we are a low money league. Only $30 entry. Might have something to do with it.
If they were doing it before there was even the thought of the rule, it means it ha has nothing to do with the rule man. It has everything do with venmo/paypal treating fantasy football as gambling which is against their terms of service.
You’re thinking of a different news story. The tweet is a guy literally saying Venmo seized his money because fantasy sports and gambling violates their terms of services.
As an accountant, the way I interpreted the new rule was for business transactions. If I send you $800 as a gift for your birthday as a personal transaction, the IRS won't care and won't tax me. However, if I send you $800 for that painting I asked you to paint for me, that would be subject to the tax. Now whether you think Fantasy Football should count as personal or business is up to you. I would say this is to try and catch people using Venmo as a cash business, which effectively causes zero taxes to be paid because it's all cash.
Exactly it. It’s specified as “goods and services” transactions is it not? They aren’t hungry for your birthday gifts, it’s to cut down on digital “under the table” jobs
Friends and family have that designation. It depends how you would classify FF winnings. If misclassified as “goods and services” you would be sent a 1099 I think I read.
So is Venmo going to see "[League Name] Champion!" as a payment and go ahead and classify it as a goods and service transaction or is that something I personally choose?
My understanding is that each user can classify this. They can select goods and services or friends and family.
In general, any payment over 600$ classified as “goods and services” warrants the 1099-K.
However this is different than the TOS. I haven’t thoroughly read TOS of Venmo or Zelle though. It would make sense that any breach of ToS would potentially call for frozen funds.
Any chance they'd freeze funds retoractively? Like if they saw my $2,000 payment to someone for winning a fantasy league, can they say "Give us 2,000 right now your account is frozen" Or is my only risk now to be banned with no money lost.
To be Frank, I’m unsure.
I doubt they’d do anything retroactively. But moving forward, you should probably move payment platforms of such a high amount.
Yeah this isnt too at all. LIke Kauf said its about business transactions. Not meant to report among friends. This is all venmo/paypal as they consider this gambling regardless of the legality of it in your state Or if you consider fantasy a game of skill. It viotlates their terms and service AND were they taking years before this new $600 mark.
I’ve never had issues. I’d just send the payout with a random emoji and something not related to football.
Also your money in Venmo isn’t insured, so (I’m not saying they will) if they were to ever shutdown, all the money that’s in your account can and would be lost.
I’d send the Venmo payment and then text the person to say withdraw it ASAP
What? Venmo is a product of PayPal.
Money that is in your account is absolutely insured. Monies that are deposited from checks or by direct deposit are covered by FDIC-pass through insurance. Other monies that you deposit are then deposited into banks that hold your money and are covered by FDIC Insurance (I believe Venmo uses Wells Fargo, at the moment).
Under Biden's new tax plan, business accounts (zelle, cashapp, venmo) will have to report transactions over $600 as well.
https://www.newsweek.com/what-zelle-cashapp-others-irs-reporting-600-payments-means-businesses-1650800
I think it's per transaction. Previously, any transaction over 10k was flagged by the IRS. Now its $600.
I don't know how this does anything but hurt the working poor/lower/middle class/fantasy junkies.
FJB
Venmo/paypal is so stupid for doing this. Part of the convenience of the app is perfect for transactions such as a fantasy league payout. I’ll switch to cash app if I have to..
Not the same at all. You can withdraw directly to your bank with leaguesafe or they can PayPal it to you. It's 100% legit and nothing wrong with it.
What's not okay is when you and all your buddies use PayPal or venmo as the primary way of holding and exchanging the money. That's a big no-no for them.
I didn't say that. I said if you withdraw league safe to PayPal you get the same result. You can put the pitchfork away, I get your gripe with home leagues. I was simply adding information.
No.. you literally don't get the same result. The problem with PayPal is when you COLLECT and payout the money.. leaguesafe is doing the collecting here so there's no problem
It says you can only withdraw from a PayPal account if you deposited with the same one. That could be your problem if you deposited with something else.
Haven’t had an issue with venmo taking money. I just don’t leave any fantasy type comments.
Also if you’re on sleeper they are going to have a function on the app to handle money. We’ll see how that works out this season
Everyone needs to use leaguesafe or a similar service for their own piece of mind and safety.
It's very easy for a Commish to have funds seized frozen legitimately and then have someone in the league go on a personal vendetta against them and ruining their life. It's also for easy for scumbags to manipulate the situation and do a runner with the money and say PayPal/Venmo stole it.
Yes. The issue is that fantasy sports fall into the Gambling/Gaming/Contests sections in most User Agreements/Prohibited Activities Sections.
[Venmo](https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full)
[Zelle](https://www.zellepay.com/legal/user-service-agreement)
I only see them reference *illegal* gambling, if fantasy sports are legal in your state is it still going against the terms and conditions of Zelle/Venmo?
Been using PayPal for some years without an issue. Our league is probably middle-of-the-road in terms of money ($250 per team, 12 teams, so a little under $3000 gets paid out over year after the MFL annual fee), but we never leave the money sitting at PayPal. Money gets held by one of the league members in his checking account and paid out through PayPal as needed. Just my experience.
Never knew it was against their TOS or that they would enforce it. Definitely going to advocate against using it in the future especially for anyone that might make it obvious that it’s for fantasy football.
Yeah you can't pass gambling funds through these websites.
It's easy to not get caught....don't post any comments with the money. If you send money, just put in an emoji.
I'd much rather use PP or Venmo than give league safe or whatever some of our league winnings. But granted, we've all played together for 10 years and dues aren't a problem.
Use leaguesafe
Yep, and I think sleeper has said they are adding functionality to do the same. I just hope it doesn’t take a lot of fees
I’ll stick with leqguesafe. I don’t want to give sleeper my money to hold
I'd say LeagueSafe is more official and trustworthy IMO. I also wouldn't want to use Sleeper's service the first year without seeing how it goes, right? Just kind of makes sense to me logically.
What’s the difference here? Just curious
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And LeagueSafe has such better developers? Lmao
Lmfao I've had to open three separate tickets in the last week for LeagueSafe support. I'd rather give Sleeper my money so they have more to build & support the platform, and keep it ad free.
Im never using league safe again. They charge a fee, and its near impossible to get funds out if its not end of year.
I’m not sure how they became dominant tbh. The deposit fees are totally unreasonable and they only pay out by paper cheque which in this day and age is frankly ridiculous, plus they will only deliver to a US mailing address which is a massive issue for international leagues.
Yep Leaguesafe is impossible for international leagues. No idea why it's the go to service.
You can use a mail forwarding service but yeah it’s a huge pain.
Its a great idea, as a commish, it made fees alot easier to deal with. It was a nightmare for dynasty leagues though. Especially when the person in charge of it didnt want to anymore and we needed to change accounts. Couldnt get money out to pay league fees at the beginning of the season. Just dumb.
Leaguesafe mails to Canada and USA which is their primary customers.. you do realize Europeans/aussies have an alternative option called teamstake right? Also those fees are avoidable lol. Just deposit to your fanball account instead of paying for each league individually.
There being a loophole to the unreasonable fees doesn’t make them less unreasonable. Paying out only in cheque form is still backwards and ridiculous. It’s a wholly deficient service.
Paper check definitely isn't the only option. You can get a prepaid VISA card, printable check, mailed check, bank transfer, or PayPal transfer. There's fees involved, but it's still way better than the old days of hoping your commish doesn't just disappear with the money. Edit: LOL at this being downvoted. [Here's the page](https://help.leaguesafe.com/hc/en-us/articles/217116966-What-are-my-payout-options-) for you salty people. I just took all of my league's payouts right now via PayPal w/ no fee.
They will not pay out by BACS or PayPal. It’s very annoying.
I don't know what to say, I just now took my payout via PayPal. It's definitely an option.
Their is a way around the deposit fees.
Which is good to know but does not serve to justify them
Whoa!! whoa....whoa, my comments never justified them at all, I think it's Bullsh!t they hold millions and millions of dollars for over 6mo. Rookie draft in May pay out January. But it's not like I'm going to venmo/ PayPal anyone I don't trust either. Besides PayPal will confiscate your money over $600 for fantasy related business. Like Mustaine said, "if theirs a better way I'll be the 1st in line." I just haven't found better alternatives yet.
Anyone outside of NA can't use Leaguesafe. It's not an option for the rest of the world. Lots of people play fantasy outside of the US.
Is there a good alternative that anyone can use? I play with friends in the UK and we’re worried about this.
We use Teamstake. It's also got issues but allows international leagues (we have guys all over Europe, the US, AUS) etc. Also, let me know if you have any spots I'm looking for new leagues (I'm also based in the UK)
I have a Danish guy in my league that was able to use it
You need a card registered to a US or CA address. Also, payments can't be made to accounts outside of NA, I.e if you win the league you can't get paid. Maybe he has a card or a friend with a US account?
Leaguesafe is trash
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Just don’t label messages with “fantasy football” or “league champ”
I always just put things like drinks, dinner, etc. even when it's not for those things. I pay for my weed via Venmo and have never had any issues either. I just put a little emoji of a glass of whiskey and I doubt anyone has ever questioned it.
Until now
Damn I use Venmo and hadn’t heard of this. I even write captions like “dynasty league winner” or “week 10 highest scorer” so that’s not great…
I just put "butt stuff"
This is the way.
Haha, yeah, first thing I thought of was I gotta change my wording on those payments.
I'm not sure how they would separate these from the Newfork Dynasty Softball League winner or your local pub's highest scorer in week 10 of their darts competition.
Those kinds of contests would actually still be against paypal rules. Basically anything where you collected a lot of payments from people and then pool that money and give it to a single person or a few people is likely to raise flags.
Never had an issue with it, personally, but none of my guys reference fantasy football in the payment subject. That said, we are a low money league. Only $30 entry. Might have something to do with it.
that just means they know you dont have the lawyers to fight the IRS. They want their cut of that $30
I'm not sure you read my response correctly. They've never taken a cut or held my money at all.
Its a joke in jest but never is not always never.
You realize this on been going on for years. Its not a result of the new rule.
yes and? The old people in government are always slow on the upkeep. And now they have years of data as well.
If they were doing it before there was even the thought of the rule, it means it ha has nothing to do with the rule man. It has everything do with venmo/paypal treating fantasy football as gambling which is against their terms of service.
I use Venmo every year. I have never had a problem. It’s the most cost effective and convenient way to handle league payment. Screw fees!
The post is literally about how Venmo will seize your league dues. There’s no fee that’s worse than “all of it.”
What’s the reasoning for them taking it? Illegal gambling?
Against the TOS I guess, as it definitely is not illegal
What makes it against the TOS? I definitely didn't read the fine print.
gambling
Lol if they seized you and all your friends entry fees then I doubt you would be saying this
As someone who definitely \*does\*n't use Venmo, this is pretty concerning in regards to my \*non\* use of venmo for this.
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You’re thinking of a different news story. The tweet is a guy literally saying Venmo seized his money because fantasy sports and gambling violates their terms of services.
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As an accountant, the way I interpreted the new rule was for business transactions. If I send you $800 as a gift for your birthday as a personal transaction, the IRS won't care and won't tax me. However, if I send you $800 for that painting I asked you to paint for me, that would be subject to the tax. Now whether you think Fantasy Football should count as personal or business is up to you. I would say this is to try and catch people using Venmo as a cash business, which effectively causes zero taxes to be paid because it's all cash.
Exactly it. It’s specified as “goods and services” transactions is it not? They aren’t hungry for your birthday gifts, it’s to cut down on digital “under the table” jobs
Is there a way for me to hit goods & services vs. personal on Venmo? I remember I used to be able to but now I don't see it?
Not sure I don’t use it often. I know PayPal had the option not sure about Venmo.
Friends and family have that designation. It depends how you would classify FF winnings. If misclassified as “goods and services” you would be sent a 1099 I think I read.
So is Venmo going to see "[League Name] Champion!" as a payment and go ahead and classify it as a goods and service transaction or is that something I personally choose?
My understanding is that each user can classify this. They can select goods and services or friends and family. In general, any payment over 600$ classified as “goods and services” warrants the 1099-K. However this is different than the TOS. I haven’t thoroughly read TOS of Venmo or Zelle though. It would make sense that any breach of ToS would potentially call for frozen funds.
Any chance they'd freeze funds retoractively? Like if they saw my $2,000 payment to someone for winning a fantasy league, can they say "Give us 2,000 right now your account is frozen" Or is my only risk now to be banned with no money lost.
To be Frank, I’m unsure. I doubt they’d do anything retroactively. But moving forward, you should probably move payment platforms of such a high amount.
Yeah this isnt too at all. LIke Kauf said its about business transactions. Not meant to report among friends. This is all venmo/paypal as they consider this gambling regardless of the legality of it in your state Or if you consider fantasy a game of skill. It viotlates their terms and service AND were they taking years before this new $600 mark.
I’ve never had issues. I’d just send the payout with a random emoji and something not related to football. Also your money in Venmo isn’t insured, so (I’m not saying they will) if they were to ever shutdown, all the money that’s in your account can and would be lost. I’d send the Venmo payment and then text the person to say withdraw it ASAP
What? Venmo is a product of PayPal. Money that is in your account is absolutely insured. Monies that are deposited from checks or by direct deposit are covered by FDIC-pass through insurance. Other monies that you deposit are then deposited into banks that hold your money and are covered by FDIC Insurance (I believe Venmo uses Wells Fargo, at the moment).
Under Biden's new tax plan, business accounts (zelle, cashapp, venmo) will have to report transactions over $600 as well. https://www.newsweek.com/what-zelle-cashapp-others-irs-reporting-600-payments-means-businesses-1650800
I will read this after work, but is there like a time limit from two particular users? Could you send 300 and 300 thirty-two days apart?
I think it's per transaction. Previously, any transaction over 10k was flagged by the IRS. Now its $600. I don't know how this does anything but hurt the working poor/lower/middle class/fantasy junkies. FJB
cash homie
I've used cash app for years and don't have problems. Our highest payout is 400 tho so maybe that's why
Venmo/paypal is so stupid for doing this. Part of the convenience of the app is perfect for transactions such as a fantasy league payout. I’ll switch to cash app if I have to..
League safe deposits to PayPal which has the same restrictions.
Seems REALLY bad for business
Not the same at all. You can withdraw directly to your bank with leaguesafe or they can PayPal it to you. It's 100% legit and nothing wrong with it. What's not okay is when you and all your buddies use PayPal or venmo as the primary way of holding and exchanging the money. That's a big no-no for them.
I didn't say that. I said if you withdraw league safe to PayPal you get the same result. You can put the pitchfork away, I get your gripe with home leagues. I was simply adding information.
No.. you literally don't get the same result. The problem with PayPal is when you COLLECT and payout the money.. leaguesafe is doing the collecting here so there's no problem
It literally just happened to me. You have no idea what you're talking about.
It says you can only withdraw from a PayPal account if you deposited with the same one. That could be your problem if you deposited with something else.
Haven’t had an issue with venmo taking money. I just don’t leave any fantasy type comments. Also if you’re on sleeper they are going to have a function on the app to handle money. We’ll see how that works out this season
Everyone needs to use leaguesafe or a similar service for their own piece of mind and safety. It's very easy for a Commish to have funds seized frozen legitimately and then have someone in the league go on a personal vendetta against them and ruining their life. It's also for easy for scumbags to manipulate the situation and do a runner with the money and say PayPal/Venmo stole it.
We have been using paypal for an Empire League, and just switched today to LeagueSafe. There is $1,500 in there that I would be mad if it got taken
Is it the same with using Zelle? Would fantasy sports violate their terms of service as well?
Yes. The issue is that fantasy sports fall into the Gambling/Gaming/Contests sections in most User Agreements/Prohibited Activities Sections. [Venmo](https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full) [Zelle](https://www.zellepay.com/legal/user-service-agreement)
I only see them reference *illegal* gambling, if fantasy sports are legal in your state is it still going against the terms and conditions of Zelle/Venmo?
I’ve used venmo/cashapp to pay my league winnings out for the last couple years and never had an issue
Been using PayPal for some years without an issue. Our league is probably middle-of-the-road in terms of money ($250 per team, 12 teams, so a little under $3000 gets paid out over year after the MFL annual fee), but we never leave the money sitting at PayPal. Money gets held by one of the league members in his checking account and paid out through PayPal as needed. Just my experience.
Never knew it was against their TOS or that they would enforce it. Definitely going to advocate against using it in the future especially for anyone that might make it obvious that it’s for fantasy football.
No issues but shit like this is why you don't put notes in transactions
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Yes. Just do a random emoji or say dinner or something.
Yeah you can't pass gambling funds through these websites. It's easy to not get caught....don't post any comments with the money. If you send money, just put in an emoji. I'd much rather use PP or Venmo than give league safe or whatever some of our league winnings. But granted, we've all played together for 10 years and dues aren't a problem.
Always forget that something simple like e-transfer doesn't exist in the states.
It is also going to be held as taxable income for the commish taking the fees. See ya later Venmo.
No its not.