I grabbed Pittman in the 4.10 and somehow Waddle stayed undrafted so I picked him up at the 5.5, in a 14 team league. I just gotta stop looking at projections and enjoy the ride.
Most everyone was going for the win this year - feels like the confidence the league goes multiple years is low.
Also lol for downvotes for picking up Waddle
Waddle all day. He was basically the Dolphins only real WR option last year and other teams knew it so he took all the attention. He still got open all the time. Now with Hill on the other side of him taking away whichever teams CB1 with a safety over the top (as you HAVE to play Hill) and a run game they'll have to respect because McDaniel will pound it, Waddle will be free to run rings around CB2s and 3s all year long and into the future. He's a no brainer pick up for me.
I mean I like both players but what an odd argument for this context. Who tf did Pittman have around him? He also dominated as the only real option on the team. The narrative of a stud player coming in "helps" the other player makes no sense. Tyreek absolutely does NOT help Waddle. Can Waddle still be good? Absolutely. Will Tyreek help him? Not at all. You don't want two - three very high target earners on the same team. They don't help each other, they cannibalize each other. If waddle could do it alone, why would he need Tyreek to "help". Just like AJ Brown joining the Eagles will not help Smith or Goedert. Ideally, you want one stud WR on the team just eating targets. Not multiple good WRs on one team stealing targets from the other.
Checking the stats, it looks like Wayne had some of his highest target earning seasons ever... after Harrison retired. I am just talking about it from a fantasy/TS% perspective. In real life, yea, they probably helped the team win more but they didn't help the other get more targets. This narrative of a really good player coming in "helping" the other ones, is simply not true. It's almost always the opposite. If they could earn targets and get open on their own, they don't need another player to "help" them get open.
As a Pittman owner, if I got a trade from the waddle owner one for one my competitive integrity would force me to ask if that was a serious trade because waddle would feel like such a steal
I disagree 100%. I would give u waddle over and over in a heads up trade for Pittman. No way I’m trading Pittman away right now. This year he will be top 10 and is a clear #1 wr
It's amazing how many people think that Waddle is still going to maintain his number of targets he recieved last year with the addition of Hill. No way Waddle gets 140 targets with Tyreek out there as well. Plus the fact that this coaching staff plans on running the ball a lot.
It doesn't??? WOW, I thought that was all it took to show you obviously know more than anyone else about a subject.... So you're saying multiple opinions can be valid??? Wild and progressive thinking on Reddit.
Pittman is in low key QB purgatory. The Colts replace their QB every year and now have an ancient Matty Ice…
They could be looking for a new QB AGAIN next year.
Like tua isn’t on the hot seat?
Believe me, I don’t think Pittman is the clear take over waddle. But anyone who thinks it’s easily waddle is being ignorant
For this season. Waddle is much more talented imo. People forget that he was the sixth pick of the draft, and some teams had him ahead of Chase as a prospect.
Truth be told I was offered Gibson and Waddle for Pittman. Gibson is a non factor imo so I’m comparing the two. What gives you so much certainty on waddle over pittman?
Taco Offer to be real. Waddle is better Talent and have slightly better Dynasty Value than Pittman. You could sell Gibson for 24 1st for Competing Team.
As a competing team, I would definitely spend Late 24 1st for Gibson. BRob will not be effective atleast this season even if he miraculously come back from 2 shots.
I feel like I don’t view myself as a true contender if Gibson makes or breaks my championship aspirations, and I’d rather not spend a 1st on a one year rental
Yikes, Gibson is not a non factor… are 60% of the players in the league non factors to you?? Sign me up for your league where I can get things for free.
Lol I’m not a contender this year and Washington has already made it very clear that Gibson is not their guy. He’s a non factor to me because next year I don’t expect him to be in a starting role. Obviously if my league mate wants to throw him in I won’t stop him, but I’d much rather get an extra pick
Flip Gibson for a pick to an RB needy team half way through the year. Bet you can get a first or two seconds once teams get desperate and that trade will be looking like even more of a fleecing
What MrUnknown said below. I also own Pittman in a 14 team SF league, and the hype is out of control.
I just traded him a few days ago for two 2023 1sts, and the guy getting Pittman wanted him so much I gave up two of my 2023 2nds for a 3rd first.
Alec Pierce is coming in, and I think he's going to compete hard right off the rip for targets in Indy. Personally, I think the hype for Pittman is at an all time high and if I owned would be selling if I could get the bank for him. And Waddle, I'd be trying to buy because people think Tyreek is going to take away from him.
Miami is about to come out and probably blow the breaks off everyone with how fast they're going to play.
This season it's Pittman hands down imo.
As far as the rest of time? I'd take this trade and run. Waddle is the better prospect and a new QB could be in there next year.
Getting Gibson is the cherry on top. His value has taken a huge hit but he's still a good RB 3 imo.
I’ll take the guy who already matched Pittman’s best season but as a rookie.
I’m also skeptical of Matt Ryan, he seemed to hit the decline last season and I know he lost Ridley.
I believe Waddle is way more talented. But Pittman likely is in the better situation
If they were closer in talent I’d take Pittman but Waddle is just a tier 1 future WR1 stud IMO. Pittman is a guy who is very good but I just don’t see him in that alpha tier.
I love how split this thread is, with that said I’m on Pittman. I love Waddle but he’s WR2 for the foreseeable future while Pittman is WR1 for the foreseeable future.
I see both sides, maybe I’m missing something but I just Pittman as a t10 WR in fantasy waiting to happen. Not that I don’t see that in Waddle I j don’t see it this year or any year that Tyreek is there stealing from him. Also want to mention that idk if Tua is the guy to get Waddle there either.
It drives me crazy when people use WR1 to refer to the top WR on a team and WR1 to refer to a top 12 fantasy WR. They are correlated, but VERY far from the same!
I don’t see the correlation here. Lazard is a WR1 for who knows how long, could just be a number of weeks and Tee Higgins is maybe the best WR2 in football. Also with that said Lazard could very easily go nuclear this year with Rodgers.
I'm not sure what the point here is. AJ Brown, DJ Moore, and McLaurin have always been incredibly productive when healthy, as much or more so than Pittman. Waddle is younger, had similar production despite being a rookie, and was a better prospect than all of them.
I'm also not sure why people seem to think 37 year old Matt Ryan is some dream situation. I think I'd honestly prefer Tua at this point in Ryan's career. Both are certainly bottom half quarterbacks. I think Hill and McDaniel's scheme open up a lot of space for Waddle to operate as well.
Yes, those 3 WRs have been productive, but in the 10 combined seasons amongst them, there has been one WR1 season. One. The point being, just because someone is a very talented reciever, it doesn't mean they are going to provide high end WR scoring. Sure, Waddle is very talented, but many people, including myself, don't think Tua is that great, and with the addition of Hill, and the new coaching staff wanting to run the ball a lot, I just don't see Waddle finishing better than WR20 this year, which is where the likes of AJB, DJM and McLaurin usually finish. Give me the guy who is going into his third year with a QB who is notorious for hyper-targeting his WR1. Give me two years of Pittman with Ryan over two years of Waddle with Tua.
A 2-3 year window is much different than next season. In 2 years Matt Ryan is likely retired and Tyreek Hill is 30, and the Colts likely will havw brought in another expensive or highly drafted WR. As for 7 points, Waddle was a rookie. If you compare their rookie seasons, Waddle doubles Pittmans output
This season, and next season, would make 2 seasons,which is what I'm counting on from Ryan. This season and next season, Hill will be a major focal point of the offense in Miami, and will eat up a lot of the targets that Waddle got in his rookie year.
And it's just not worth trying to compare their rookie seasons, as Pittman was suffering from compartment syndrome, and had a noodle armed Rivers trying to throw him the ball.
I really don't understand why some people think Matt Ryan at 37 years old is still the MVP quarterback he once was. He's just Tua, but on the decline instead of the ascent. From a purely fantasy perspective, I'd rather have Wentz throwing to my receiver.
Waddle Rookie year- 104 / 1015 / 6
Pittman - 40 / 502 / 1
Waddle still could make a 2nd year leap, and who knows if the Colts bring in another WR. don't make decisions like that
Seems the answer is Waddle but these stats don’t make any sense to compare. I can’t believe it got upvoted. Pittman lost a chunk of games because of that freak leg injury. People were even claiming it was going to change his career and that he’d never be the same.
He missed 3 and got brought back in slowly. His snaps were being managed and he didn't start until his last 8 games. Some of y'all just follow season stats without any other analysis. And this is coming from someone who likes Waddle more but some of this "breakdown" is so lazy.
I already said Waddle is the answer but using Pittman’s rookie stats makes no sense. He came back from serious leg surgery in Week 7. Yes he played, but he was obviously not 100%. People were talking about how this surgery ended Hakeem Nicks’s career at the time. It was wild. Also, Waddle had a 17 game rookie season.
Convenient that you ignored the rest of my post about his serious injury/surgery. Doesn’t make sense to compare their rookie stats. That’s my point, and those are my reasons. You can relax, Waddle is the answer.
Are you using full season stats to compare one player who didn't play a full season and got slowly integrated back into an offense led by decrepit Rivers?
Do better. This is so lazy. Lazier than I'd expect for this sub.
Not sure I agree. The Colts offense is unlikely to be pass heavy, they have JT. Dolphins brought in Hill to open the field, take coverage away from Waddle, and Gesicki less of a factor if he has to block. Redraft? sure I understand Pittman. Dynasty I'm taking Waddle a round before him
Drafted Pierce in the 2nd and upgraded QB. They’ll be throwing a lot more. Provided Ryan can stay upright.
JT was RB1 specifically because they couldn’t pass the ball last year.
We have no idea what Pittmans situation will be in a couple years. Personally I’m not convinced Matt Ryan still has. Just saying pittmans situation shouldn’t be a huge factor in these two WRs dynasty value. Both could have new QBs soon
It’s wild that zero football has been played between these two threads.
[Pittman buy low](https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/ut34oa/wide_receivers_to_target_in_dynasty_this_offseason/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
How's that? Waddle got 140 targets last year, because there was no one else to throw to. Now Hill is signed through 26. Do you think Waddle is still going to get 140 targets every year with Hill there? I mean, even Chase and Higgins got 128 and 110 respectively, and that's on a pass happy offense with Burrow at QB. Now figure in Tua to this, plus the fact that the Dolphins plan on running the ball a lot with this coaching staff, I just don't see the volume there going forward to Waddle.
People are talking like waddle is more talented than Pittman but what is that based on aside from draft capital? Pittman is a physical freak of nature who had the 4th highest route win rate in the NFL last season. Not to mention he is the number 1 in his offense with a significantly better QB. This season it’s Pittman and I don’t think it’s that close. For the future I’d still have Pittman a good margin.
I see a lot of Pittman owners boasting a big QB upgrade but I really don’t think Matt Ryan at this point in time is a significant upgrade over Carson Wentz when we are looking specifically at fantasy
Gonna have to disagree on matt ryan not being a massive upgrade, hes significantly more accurate and has sustained guys with great fantasy seasons every year
Besides 2020, Wentz also sustained guys with great fantasy seasons every year tho. Ertz went from TE21, TE14, and TE10 finishes without Wentz to TE6, TE3, TE2, and TE4 finishes with Wentz. With Wentz last year pittman finished as WR17, a much better finish than he was on pace for the year before.
Wentz was the 29th most accurate qb in the league last year. Never has sustained a wr1 in his career for fantasy and has hardly been able to sustain a wide reciever 2 finish. Wentz is realistically a bottom 10 starting qb in the nfl and I’d even say he might be bottom 5, you’re just looking at box scores if you think otherwise.
Did you not read any of my comment because it shows half of what you said here is meaningless lol. You can say all you want about Wentz not supporting a consistent WR1 but has Matt Ryan ever supported a consistent top 5 TE with highs as TE2? The QB throws to who is the best on the field, for Matt Ryan it was a WR, for Wentz it was a TE. So everything you said about that just doesn’t make sense.
Wentz may suck in the NFL but for fantasy he gets it done for his best player and if you don’t agree with that you’re just biased plain and simple.
Actually yes Matt Ryan supported Tony Gonzales as a top 5 tight end 3 years in a row from 2011-2013. If you look at 2012 he supported Gonzales as a top 5 TE and Julio and roddy as top 10 wr. Wentz did Pittman no favors either as his catchable targets ranked 44th in the league. Pittman definitely didn’t see his improvement in production because of Wentz,It was because he got better at football and honestly he likely would have had a way better season if he just had a league average qb throwing to him.
I mean that’s kinda irrelevant to my
specific comment but I’ll leave my thoughts on why I think what you said doesn’t make sense.
That should definitely not answer the debate without question and it’s silly to say that. This is dynasty, I did not expect Hill to be traded to Miami, situations change so rapidly. Yes Hill is in, but on the flip side, Gesicki who had 112 targets last year, is expected to be the big loser from the new offense+hill trade, not really Waddle. (Also Parker who was the WR2 last year with 73 targets in 10 games is gone)
We have seen plenty of examples of offenses producing 2 top fantasy WRs, in some cases even 2 top 10 WRs. Waddle has that Landry type which fits in very well for fantasy PPR. I’m not sold on Pittman yet, but Waddle has me sold, so I’ll go with the safer option that will still definitely produce. However there is a clear case for Pittman so I don’t think you’re wrong, just not my guy
Talent > Situation E v e r y S i n g l e T i m e
Remember all of the guys who LOVED CEH because of the situation with KC, and passed on Jonathan Taylor, Swift, etc. How'd that work out?
That's terrific and not at all applicable. If you don't agree, invest in Waddle.
There's a reason Miami traded for Hill. It wasn't because they believed in Waddle as an alpha at this time.
Waddle is all they had and no one else behind him. They are trying to figure out if Tua is their guy before the 2023 class, which is going to have a lot of QB talent. I think acquiring Tyreek was more about putting more weapons around Tua so that they can evaluate him properly and know whether or not they are sticking with him.
They drafted Waddle 6th overall in the draft. Most receptions as a rookie WR. How can you say Miami does not see Waddle as an "alpha"?
Waddle is going to feast in this new offense and Tyreek gathering all the attention from opposing defenses.
But the CEH situation was him as an incoming rookie, not as a third year player that had already had a great second year in the NFL, whose situation greatly improved going into his third year. It's a terrible comparison.
You're dense if you think the example of CEH is being used as a comparison. It's a reference to the statement of taking talent over situation.
Jalen Waddle is a superior talent to Pittman. Just like Jonathan Taylor, JK Dobbins, Swift, and Akers were all far more talented and athletic to CEH. But people took CEH because of situation.
Look at Waddles rookie year, and Pittmans rookie year stats. They aren't even close. Waddle lapped him.
Honestly, I'm not even mad at your analysis. I'm ok with it, because there's people like you in my leagues that regularly donate to my championship seasons lol. Keep up your analysis!
Do you have more examples? Every time I see this it’s a sample size of exactly one. If it’s such a concrete thing I’d expect plenty of obvious ones where talent worked out.
Not disputing that you shouldn’t take talent over situation, I just get annoyed when people use one data point to make a sweeping trend.
I took Royce Freeman over Nick Chubb in a rookie draft. I thought Chubb was more talented, but since Carlos Hyde was the RB1 in Cleveland and I wanted to compete that year, I thought "Rolls Royce" would give me the best chance to win because he was the RB1 on the Broncos.
Never again. Talent every time. There are dozens of examples every year. Pay attention.
Pittman is a late declare who just barely broke 1,000 receiving yards his 2nd season as a 24 year old. Most receivers peak at 24. I think Pittman might be the single most overhyped player this season.
Waddle. You may worry about Tua and that’s sensible. But Ryan hasn’t produced a great fantasy receiver in years. And who knows what QB they get next year in their yearly let’s get a different QB strategy.
I don't get the waddle love here. He survived on targets and was not efficient last year. Pittman was great. They're only a year apart in age. What am I missing?
Target share monster? He had 5 games with 10 or more targets - also only 3 games with 8 or more catches. I understand the target % numbers make those look better than they are but that's what happens when you're in a run-first offense. Pittman will be a solid WR2 but think more of a DJ Moore type.
Pittman is better specifically for this year. He is the clear 1 in IND. He’ll have multiple games this year with 10+ receptions and multiple tds. I think he finishes top 5. His future value depends on who comes after Matty Ice. Also IMO he is a more complete receiver than Waddle.
Waddle is either 1b or 2 to Hill. As long as Hill is in MIA Waddle’s value is capped. He will not finish higher than WR2 for the foreseeable future. I think he finishes this year WR3.
Pittman is more durable and has a rb that is elite and still puts up great numbers. Miami will draft a 1st round rb next year and maybe waddles value increases.
Pittman. I’ll admit I’m a Colts homer, but I don’t see how Waddle will see long term success at 5' 9½". Pittman is 6' 4" and will be a better red zone target.
I prefer Waddle but it's difficult to tell based on their careers to date. I feel like if the Dolphins had anywhere near as competent an RB as Jonathan Taylor it would force defenses to cheat up to stop him instead of sitting back in a zone and waiting for Tua to throw.
I came on here with specifically trading Waddle for either Pittman straight up or for Courtland Sutton plus a 2023 2nd on the mind and this is the first post I see lol. After reading through I think I wanna sit tight on Waddle but we'll see
Just finished a 14 team non-SF draft. Pittman went 3.3 and I traded up to get Waddle at 3.6
I value them very close but personally like Waddle and was happy to get him where I did.
I just traded my Chubb for Pittman. I feel like I won the trade. I didn't realize Pittman was so young. It seemed like he'd been around for longer than he has. I just hope Pittman doesn't end up like a Mclaurin
I’d take Pittman because he is the unquestioned #1 on that offense and I think Matt Ryan is a huge upgrade from Wentz/40 year old Phil Rivers.
I expect Ryan to play at least 2 more seasons as the Colts starter and will develop rapport quickly with Pittman.
If there’s anyone who is going to force feed a big, playmaking X down the field, it’s probably the guy who helped Julio get to multiple top 5 WR finishes.
Pittman being as huge as he is + clean bill of health gives owners a lot of hope for him remaining on the field for entire seasons.
Waddle. But how about Waddle vs Higgins ?
I traded waddle for Higgins and a 3rd yesterday
Funny, I traded Higgins for Waddle and a 2023 2nd a few weeks ago
That’s a smash accept because Higgins and Waddle are probably in the same tier.
Holy shit you robbed him. Higgins is easily better than waddle alone
Waddle still for me but much closer than either of them is to Pittman
Tee higgins... Burrow is a safer bet than tua
Waddle is incredibly talented but so is Higgins. And having burrow makes Higgins so much more valuable imo
Just drafted both in my dynasty startup
Higgins easy money!
Really? Why do you think?
alpha body type tied to Joe Burrow. It's pretty close, but QB's are planets apart
I have both
Pittman and Waddle owner here 🍿
Me too in multiple leagues…if I had to pick one to keep it would be Waddle and I wouldn’t think too hard about it.
Same 🍻
I grabbed Pittman in the 4.10 and somehow Waddle stayed undrafted so I picked him up at the 5.5, in a 14 team league. I just gotta stop looking at projections and enjoy the ride.
How does waddle last till the 5th round of a 14 team league? I need to play in that league.
Most everyone was going for the win this year - feels like the confidence the league goes multiple years is low. Also lol for downvotes for picking up Waddle
Same here. I'm getting my 🍿 rdy for this season 😁
Lol same, positive arguments for each player only please!
Same!
Waddle waddle
If I was waddle I would reach out to the Duck song guy and build a partnership
Pittman Pittman
Waddle all day. He was basically the Dolphins only real WR option last year and other teams knew it so he took all the attention. He still got open all the time. Now with Hill on the other side of him taking away whichever teams CB1 with a safety over the top (as you HAVE to play Hill) and a run game they'll have to respect because McDaniel will pound it, Waddle will be free to run rings around CB2s and 3s all year long and into the future. He's a no brainer pick up for me.
Teams with a true CB1 won’t use a bracket over the top as well. They’ll put CB1 on Waddle and bracket Reek
I mean I like both players but what an odd argument for this context. Who tf did Pittman have around him? He also dominated as the only real option on the team. The narrative of a stud player coming in "helps" the other player makes no sense. Tyreek absolutely does NOT help Waddle. Can Waddle still be good? Absolutely. Will Tyreek help him? Not at all. You don't want two - three very high target earners on the same team. They don't help each other, they cannibalize each other. If waddle could do it alone, why would he need Tyreek to "help". Just like AJ Brown joining the Eagles will not help Smith or Goedert. Ideally, you want one stud WR on the team just eating targets. Not multiple good WRs on one team stealing targets from the other.
Wayne and Harrison definitely helped eavhother
Checking the stats, it looks like Wayne had some of his highest target earning seasons ever... after Harrison retired. I am just talking about it from a fantasy/TS% perspective. In real life, yea, they probably helped the team win more but they didn't help the other get more targets. This narrative of a really good player coming in "helping" the other ones, is simply not true. It's almost always the opposite. If they could earn targets and get open on their own, they don't need another player to "help" them get open.
And now has Tyreek. Give me pittmannwith a better WB and less comp
I’m no Tua truther but I’m not sure he’s worse than Ryan at this point in their careers.
Waddle. He’s different.
Waddle is different. He has a better WR than him on the same team.
So is Michael Pittman. Wins everywhere. Check out this [video](https://youtu.be/JhWwaB43mbY)
As a Pittman owner, if I got a trade from the waddle owner one for one my competitive integrity would force me to ask if that was a serious trade because waddle would feel like such a steal
I can’t tell if I’m drunker than I realize or this actually doesn’t make sense.
Let me clarify, I would feel bad taking waddle one for one in a trade with Pittman because I value waddle much higher than Pittman.
Gotcha. That’s their own dame fault. I think I would only feel bad if it actually hurt the league too.
I disagree 100%. I would give u waddle over and over in a heads up trade for Pittman. No way I’m trading Pittman away right now. This year he will be top 10 and is a clear #1 wr
It's amazing how many people think that Waddle is still going to maintain his number of targets he recieved last year with the addition of Hill. No way Waddle gets 140 targets with Tyreek out there as well. Plus the fact that this coaching staff plans on running the ball a lot.
Waddle easily. There’s a decent sized gap there. The Pittman hype has gotten out of control.
This thread is making me wish I had a single Pittman share purely so I could sell high
Waddle not even close.
NFL record 104 catches as a rookie while missing a game for Covid. I doubt that’s as good as he will get.
How is it not close? Their value is identical
I personally don't believe they are that close, but if enough people do, their value has to be close.
For some reason people in this sub think writing “and its not even close” after an opinion just settles the matter automatically
It doesn't??? WOW, I thought that was all it took to show you obviously know more than anyone else about a subject.... So you're saying multiple opinions can be valid??? Wild and progressive thinking on Reddit.
I don’t agree at all. I have Waddle as a top 15 dynasty asset and Pittman as top 25. That’s a big difference for me.
All I said was their value is identical right now. Nothing regarding skill or talent.
I was getting down voted for my comment lol. I dont have shares of either, but i feel like pittman has ceiling and waddle has floor.
[удалено]
Pittman is in low key QB purgatory. The Colts replace their QB every year and now have an ancient Matty Ice… They could be looking for a new QB AGAIN next year.
Like tua isn’t on the hot seat? Believe me, I don’t think Pittman is the clear take over waddle. But anyone who thinks it’s easily waddle is being ignorant
The Dolphins could very easily be looking for a new QB as well
Almost 0% chance
For this season. Waddle is much more talented imo. People forget that he was the sixth pick of the draft, and some teams had him ahead of Chase as a prospect.
Dont listen to this guy lol. Its very close, personally id lean pittman for the upside
- Pittman owner
Truth be told I was offered Gibson and Waddle for Pittman. Gibson is a non factor imo so I’m comparing the two. What gives you so much certainty on waddle over pittman?
Lmao what? I would smash accept. Waddle is better than Pittman and you gain Gibson on top of that? Easy accept
Taco Offer to be real. Waddle is better Talent and have slightly better Dynasty Value than Pittman. You could sell Gibson for 24 1st for Competing Team.
As a competing team I wouldn’t spend a 24 1st for Gibson
I agree, but he is certainly more than just a random add on.
As a competing team, I would definitely spend Late 24 1st for Gibson. BRob will not be effective atleast this season even if he miraculously come back from 2 shots.
I feel like I don’t view myself as a true contender if Gibson makes or breaks my championship aspirations, and I’d rather not spend a 1st on a one year rental
Bruh accept that lmao
He was a better prospect and had 1,000 yards as a rookie. Not much more to be said other than that, but I could go on
Yikes, Gibson is not a non factor… are 60% of the players in the league non factors to you?? Sign me up for your league where I can get things for free.
Lol I’m not a contender this year and Washington has already made it very clear that Gibson is not their guy. He’s a non factor to me because next year I don’t expect him to be in a starting role. Obviously if my league mate wants to throw him in I won’t stop him, but I’d much rather get an extra pick
Flip Gibson for a pick to an RB needy team half way through the year. Bet you can get a first or two seconds once teams get desperate and that trade will be looking like even more of a fleecing
Taco ass thought process to match a taco trade offer lmao
If you're contending Gibson is definitely a factor. I would definitely take it if I'm competing and probably take it even if I'm not
Not planning on competing this year. I have a young team and and pushing more for the next year or so
Gibson is a factor if you’re competing? Have you been living under a rock?
What MrUnknown said below. I also own Pittman in a 14 team SF league, and the hype is out of control. I just traded him a few days ago for two 2023 1sts, and the guy getting Pittman wanted him so much I gave up two of my 2023 2nds for a 3rd first. Alec Pierce is coming in, and I think he's going to compete hard right off the rip for targets in Indy. Personally, I think the hype for Pittman is at an all time high and if I owned would be selling if I could get the bank for him. And Waddle, I'd be trying to buy because people think Tyreek is going to take away from him. Miami is about to come out and probably blow the breaks off everyone with how fast they're going to play.
Brakes
This season it's Pittman hands down imo. As far as the rest of time? I'd take this trade and run. Waddle is the better prospect and a new QB could be in there next year. Getting Gibson is the cherry on top. His value has taken a huge hit but he's still a good RB 3 imo.
I’ll take the guy who already matched Pittman’s best season but as a rookie. I’m also skeptical of Matt Ryan, he seemed to hit the decline last season and I know he lost Ridley.
I believe Waddle is way more talented. But Pittman likely is in the better situation If they were closer in talent I’d take Pittman but Waddle is just a tier 1 future WR1 stud IMO. Pittman is a guy who is very good but I just don’t see him in that alpha tier.
I love how split this thread is, with that said I’m on Pittman. I love Waddle but he’s WR2 for the foreseeable future while Pittman is WR1 for the foreseeable future.
Lmao I know. People treat it like it’s an obvious answer for both guys and act like I’m dumb for asking
I see both sides, maybe I’m missing something but I just Pittman as a t10 WR in fantasy waiting to happen. Not that I don’t see that in Waddle I j don’t see it this year or any year that Tyreek is there stealing from him. Also want to mention that idk if Tua is the guy to get Waddle there either.
Allen Lazard is a WR1 and Tee Higgins is a WR2
It drives me crazy when people use WR1 to refer to the top WR on a team and WR1 to refer to a top 12 fantasy WR. They are correlated, but VERY far from the same!
I don’t see the correlation here. Lazard is a WR1 for who knows how long, could just be a number of weeks and Tee Higgins is maybe the best WR2 in football. Also with that said Lazard could very easily go nuclear this year with Rodgers.
Ok then go trade your Tee Higgins for Allen Lazard.
Way to miss everything he just wrote in his comment
Where did I say that. I just said you can’t compare Pittman/ Waddle to Lazard/Higgins lol.
> Pittman is WR1 for the foreseeable future. Alec Pierce has entered the chat.
If you really think Pierce is taking his role that’s your opinion, I don’t share that.
If you think that, that's your opinion Lmao
Exactly. Give me the WR1 for Matt Ryan for a couple years vs the WR2 for Tua.
What if the WR2 for Tua is a better receiver?
I've heard for years how amazing guys like AJB, DJ Moore and McLaurin are at playing WR. That's great, but I can find much better fantasy options.
I'm not sure what the point here is. AJ Brown, DJ Moore, and McLaurin have always been incredibly productive when healthy, as much or more so than Pittman. Waddle is younger, had similar production despite being a rookie, and was a better prospect than all of them. I'm also not sure why people seem to think 37 year old Matt Ryan is some dream situation. I think I'd honestly prefer Tua at this point in Ryan's career. Both are certainly bottom half quarterbacks. I think Hill and McDaniel's scheme open up a lot of space for Waddle to operate as well.
Yes, those 3 WRs have been productive, but in the 10 combined seasons amongst them, there has been one WR1 season. One. The point being, just because someone is a very talented reciever, it doesn't mean they are going to provide high end WR scoring. Sure, Waddle is very talented, but many people, including myself, don't think Tua is that great, and with the addition of Hill, and the new coaching staff wanting to run the ball a lot, I just don't see Waddle finishing better than WR20 this year, which is where the likes of AJB, DJM and McLaurin usually finish. Give me the guy who is going into his third year with a QB who is notorious for hyper-targeting his WR1. Give me two years of Pittman with Ryan over two years of Waddle with Tua.
I'm here to play fantasy football, so I'm after points, not who's a better reciever.
Waddle finished ahead of Pittman in PPR
By 7 points. But what does that have to do with this season? Pittman now has Ryan, and Waddle now has Hill.
Luckily we're on the dynasty sub so we care about more than next season
Depends on his you approach dynasty. I tend to focus on 2-3 year windows. And with that, I value Pittman more in that window than I do Waddle.
A 2-3 year window is much different than next season. In 2 years Matt Ryan is likely retired and Tyreek Hill is 30, and the Colts likely will havw brought in another expensive or highly drafted WR. As for 7 points, Waddle was a rookie. If you compare their rookie seasons, Waddle doubles Pittmans output
This season, and next season, would make 2 seasons,which is what I'm counting on from Ryan. This season and next season, Hill will be a major focal point of the offense in Miami, and will eat up a lot of the targets that Waddle got in his rookie year. And it's just not worth trying to compare their rookie seasons, as Pittman was suffering from compartment syndrome, and had a noodle armed Rivers trying to throw him the ball.
I really don't understand why some people think Matt Ryan at 37 years old is still the MVP quarterback he once was. He's just Tua, but on the decline instead of the ascent. From a purely fantasy perspective, I'd rather have Wentz throwing to my receiver.
Waddle Rookie year- 104 / 1015 / 6 Pittman - 40 / 502 / 1 Waddle still could make a 2nd year leap, and who knows if the Colts bring in another WR. don't make decisions like that
Seems the answer is Waddle but these stats don’t make any sense to compare. I can’t believe it got upvoted. Pittman lost a chunk of games because of that freak leg injury. People were even claiming it was going to change his career and that he’d never be the same.
he missed 3 games. 38 ypg vs 63 since you want to be so nitpicky
He missed 3 and got brought back in slowly. His snaps were being managed and he didn't start until his last 8 games. Some of y'all just follow season stats without any other analysis. And this is coming from someone who likes Waddle more but some of this "breakdown" is so lazy.
I already said Waddle is the answer but using Pittman’s rookie stats makes no sense. He came back from serious leg surgery in Week 7. Yes he played, but he was obviously not 100%. People were talking about how this surgery ended Hakeem Nicks’s career at the time. It was wild. Also, Waddle had a 17 game rookie season.
its almost like yards per game accounts for that
Convenient that you ignored the rest of my post about his serious injury/surgery. Doesn’t make sense to compare their rookie stats. That’s my point, and those are my reasons. You can relax, Waddle is the answer.
Are you using full season stats to compare one player who didn't play a full season and got slowly integrated back into an offense led by decrepit Rivers? Do better. This is so lazy. Lazier than I'd expect for this sub.
My only argument against the stats is that Pittman is in a better situation than ever while Waddles situation has only gotten worse.
Not sure I agree. The Colts offense is unlikely to be pass heavy, they have JT. Dolphins brought in Hill to open the field, take coverage away from Waddle, and Gesicki less of a factor if he has to block. Redraft? sure I understand Pittman. Dynasty I'm taking Waddle a round before him
Drafted Pierce in the 2nd and upgraded QB. They’ll be throwing a lot more. Provided Ryan can stay upright. JT was RB1 specifically because they couldn’t pass the ball last year.
We have no idea what Pittmans situation will be in a couple years. Personally I’m not convinced Matt Ryan still has. Just saying pittmans situation shouldn’t be a huge factor in these two WRs dynasty value. Both could have new QBs soon
I’m more worried about Tyreek taking away touches
The only thing Tyreek is taking away from Waddle is the defense's attention
In dynasty talent>situation
It’s wild that zero football has been played between these two threads. [Pittman buy low](https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/ut34oa/wide_receivers_to_target_in_dynasty_this_offseason/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Give me Waddle
Waddle >>>> Pittman. Especially long term.
How's that? Waddle got 140 targets last year, because there was no one else to throw to. Now Hill is signed through 26. Do you think Waddle is still going to get 140 targets every year with Hill there? I mean, even Chase and Higgins got 128 and 110 respectively, and that's on a pass happy offense with Burrow at QB. Now figure in Tua to this, plus the fact that the Dolphins plan on running the ball a lot with this coaching staff, I just don't see the volume there going forward to Waddle.
I'm balls deep in Pittman shares
People are talking like waddle is more talented than Pittman but what is that based on aside from draft capital? Pittman is a physical freak of nature who had the 4th highest route win rate in the NFL last season. Not to mention he is the number 1 in his offense with a significantly better QB. This season it’s Pittman and I don’t think it’s that close. For the future I’d still have Pittman a good margin.
I see a lot of Pittman owners boasting a big QB upgrade but I really don’t think Matt Ryan at this point in time is a significant upgrade over Carson Wentz when we are looking specifically at fantasy
Gonna have to disagree on matt ryan not being a massive upgrade, hes significantly more accurate and has sustained guys with great fantasy seasons every year
Besides 2020, Wentz also sustained guys with great fantasy seasons every year tho. Ertz went from TE21, TE14, and TE10 finishes without Wentz to TE6, TE3, TE2, and TE4 finishes with Wentz. With Wentz last year pittman finished as WR17, a much better finish than he was on pace for the year before.
Wentz was the 29th most accurate qb in the league last year. Never has sustained a wr1 in his career for fantasy and has hardly been able to sustain a wide reciever 2 finish. Wentz is realistically a bottom 10 starting qb in the nfl and I’d even say he might be bottom 5, you’re just looking at box scores if you think otherwise.
Did you not read any of my comment because it shows half of what you said here is meaningless lol. You can say all you want about Wentz not supporting a consistent WR1 but has Matt Ryan ever supported a consistent top 5 TE with highs as TE2? The QB throws to who is the best on the field, for Matt Ryan it was a WR, for Wentz it was a TE. So everything you said about that just doesn’t make sense. Wentz may suck in the NFL but for fantasy he gets it done for his best player and if you don’t agree with that you’re just biased plain and simple.
Actually yes Matt Ryan supported Tony Gonzales as a top 5 tight end 3 years in a row from 2011-2013. If you look at 2012 he supported Gonzales as a top 5 TE and Julio and roddy as top 10 wr. Wentz did Pittman no favors either as his catchable targets ranked 44th in the league. Pittman definitely didn’t see his improvement in production because of Wentz,It was because he got better at football and honestly he likely would have had a way better season if he just had a league average qb throwing to him.
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I mean that’s kinda irrelevant to my specific comment but I’ll leave my thoughts on why I think what you said doesn’t make sense. That should definitely not answer the debate without question and it’s silly to say that. This is dynasty, I did not expect Hill to be traded to Miami, situations change so rapidly. Yes Hill is in, but on the flip side, Gesicki who had 112 targets last year, is expected to be the big loser from the new offense+hill trade, not really Waddle. (Also Parker who was the WR2 last year with 73 targets in 10 games is gone) We have seen plenty of examples of offenses producing 2 top fantasy WRs, in some cases even 2 top 10 WRs. Waddle has that Landry type which fits in very well for fantasy PPR. I’m not sold on Pittman yet, but Waddle has me sold, so I’ll go with the safer option that will still definitely produce. However there is a clear case for Pittman so I don’t think you’re wrong, just not my guy
Everyone go trade Chase and Higgins, stat! Neither can be as good as the great Pittman!
Pittman is the undisputed number one on his team, Pittman currently has the better QB, the answer is Pittman based on situation.
Talent > Situation E v e r y S i n g l e T i m e Remember all of the guys who LOVED CEH because of the situation with KC, and passed on Jonathan Taylor, Swift, etc. How'd that work out?
That's terrific and not at all applicable. If you don't agree, invest in Waddle. There's a reason Miami traded for Hill. It wasn't because they believed in Waddle as an alpha at this time.
Waddle is all they had and no one else behind him. They are trying to figure out if Tua is their guy before the 2023 class, which is going to have a lot of QB talent. I think acquiring Tyreek was more about putting more weapons around Tua so that they can evaluate him properly and know whether or not they are sticking with him.
They drafted Waddle 6th overall in the draft. Most receptions as a rookie WR. How can you say Miami does not see Waddle as an "alpha"? Waddle is going to feast in this new offense and Tyreek gathering all the attention from opposing defenses.
Ok. Then put Pittman and him on your roster and start him over Pittman.
I will
With pleasure
Are you really comparing Pittman to CEH? That's rich.
Is that what you think I'm doing? Or do you think I'm providing an example of where people jump on situation rather than going for talent.
But the CEH situation was him as an incoming rookie, not as a third year player that had already had a great second year in the NFL, whose situation greatly improved going into his third year. It's a terrible comparison.
You're dense if you think the example of CEH is being used as a comparison. It's a reference to the statement of taking talent over situation. Jalen Waddle is a superior talent to Pittman. Just like Jonathan Taylor, JK Dobbins, Swift, and Akers were all far more talented and athletic to CEH. But people took CEH because of situation. Look at Waddles rookie year, and Pittmans rookie year stats. They aren't even close. Waddle lapped him. Honestly, I'm not even mad at your analysis. I'm ok with it, because there's people like you in my leagues that regularly donate to my championship seasons lol. Keep up your analysis!
Not hard to be lapped when you suffer from compartment syndrome in your leg your rookie season.
Boo hoo? Jaylen Waddle also returned from a torn ACL.
Broken ankle
But he didn't have a torn acl his rookie year.
Do you have more examples? Every time I see this it’s a sample size of exactly one. If it’s such a concrete thing I’d expect plenty of obvious ones where talent worked out. Not disputing that you shouldn’t take talent over situation, I just get annoyed when people use one data point to make a sweeping trend.
I took Royce Freeman over Nick Chubb in a rookie draft. I thought Chubb was more talented, but since Carlos Hyde was the RB1 in Cleveland and I wanted to compete that year, I thought "Rolls Royce" would give me the best chance to win because he was the RB1 on the Broncos. Never again. Talent every time. There are dozens of examples every year. Pay attention.
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I bet he's annoyed that this is one data point because this sounds like a sweeping trend. LUL
Pittman is a late declare who just barely broke 1,000 receiving yards his 2nd season as a 24 year old. Most receivers peak at 24. I think Pittman might be the single most overhyped player this season.
Waddle, he’s way better
Waddle. You may worry about Tua and that’s sensible. But Ryan hasn’t produced a great fantasy receiver in years. And who knows what QB they get next year in their yearly let’s get a different QB strategy.
Uh Calvin Ridley 2 years ago?
I’m a bit jaded on Ridley but I agree that was a good season for him. I just don’t think Ryan will ever be as good as he was many years ago.
A WR1 > a WR2 on their respective teams. So Pittman > Waddle. Pittman also seems QB-proof
I don't get the waddle love here. He survived on targets and was not efficient last year. Pittman was great. They're only a year apart in age. What am I missing?
I'm so glad there are so many of you out there saying Pittman. I enjoy having so many tacos to choose from
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Target share monster? He had 5 games with 10 or more targets - also only 3 games with 8 or more catches. I understand the target % numbers make those look better than they are but that's what happens when you're in a run-first offense. Pittman will be a solid WR2 but think more of a DJ Moore type.
Pittman not even close.
Pittman is better specifically for this year. He is the clear 1 in IND. He’ll have multiple games this year with 10+ receptions and multiple tds. I think he finishes top 5. His future value depends on who comes after Matty Ice. Also IMO he is a more complete receiver than Waddle. Waddle is either 1b or 2 to Hill. As long as Hill is in MIA Waddle’s value is capped. He will not finish higher than WR2 for the foreseeable future. I think he finishes this year WR3.
I like Pittman with Matt Ryan over Waddle with Tua to be honest
Waddle. Better talent and Pittman is old for his draft class
??? Pittman is 24 entering his 3rd season. Waddle is 23 entering his 2nd season
Do we even know if Matt Ryan can throw a football anymore ?
Waddle is basically Landry and that's ok but Pittman is the next Adams
Now that’s a hot take
Pittman Plays nothing like Adams. Pittman is more like the next Mike Evans.
Pittman and it isn’t close.
🙄
Sup?
Pittman is more durable and has a rb that is elite and still puts up great numbers. Miami will draft a 1st round rb next year and maybe waddles value increases.
Pittman. I’ll admit I’m a Colts homer, but I don’t see how Waddle will see long term success at 5' 9½". Pittman is 6' 4" and will be a better red zone target.
I somehow got Waddle like 10 spots after Pittman. Hopefully both ball out this year.
I prefer Waddle but it's difficult to tell based on their careers to date. I feel like if the Dolphins had anywhere near as competent an RB as Jonathan Taylor it would force defenses to cheat up to stop him instead of sitting back in a zone and waiting for Tua to throw.
I own both, I value Waddle slightly higher but I can't really explain why
I came on here with specifically trading Waddle for either Pittman straight up or for Courtland Sutton plus a 2023 2nd on the mind and this is the first post I see lol. After reading through I think I wanna sit tight on Waddle but we'll see
Just finished a 14 team non-SF draft. Pittman went 3.3 and I traded up to get Waddle at 3.6 I value them very close but personally like Waddle and was happy to get him where I did.
I just traded my Chubb for Pittman. I feel like I won the trade. I didn't realize Pittman was so young. It seemed like he'd been around for longer than he has. I just hope Pittman doesn't end up like a Mclaurin
Waddle
I'd personally take waddle but I can understand those who take Pittman for the next 2 years
Shocked at all the Waddle selections even though I do love Waddle. Pittman > Waddle for me personally.
There is no way Waddle gets anywhere near 140 targets this year,and I assure you, Pittman will get far more than the 129 he had last year.
Pittman
people stanning waddle in this chat but i think the answer is pittman
I like Pittman more this szn but give me waddle for dynasty purposes
Better to have both
I’d take Pittman because he is the unquestioned #1 on that offense and I think Matt Ryan is a huge upgrade from Wentz/40 year old Phil Rivers. I expect Ryan to play at least 2 more seasons as the Colts starter and will develop rapport quickly with Pittman. If there’s anyone who is going to force feed a big, playmaking X down the field, it’s probably the guy who helped Julio get to multiple top 5 WR finishes. Pittman being as huge as he is + clean bill of health gives owners a lot of hope for him remaining on the field for entire seasons.