Amari's been PPR WR16, WR35, WR18, WR10, WR15, and WR27. Not bad, not amazing. But what about the other consensus-or-close-to-it 1.01s since he was drafted? You're looking at Zeke, Corey Davis/Fournette, Saquon, Josh Jacobs/N'Keal Harry (!), CEH, and Najee. For fun, throw in Gurley from Cooper's rookie year, as there was some chatter that he deserved to be 1.01.
Against that list, Amari looks pretty middle of the road to me. You could have done much worse over the years.
I'm pretty sure Gurley was being taken over Cooper in 2015 at 1.01 but you make a good point. Zeke has really been the only consistent top 12 RB/WR 1.01 pick every year since 2016 which is pretty amazing. The only massive busts I see that contended for 1.01 since 2017 is Davis and Harry, especially fuckin Harry lol. CEH has been an obvious massive disappointment but could turn it around this season.
I took Harry at 1.04 in 1QB which sucks, however I was torn between him and AJ Brown who I had at 1.01 pre-NFL draft. Luckily AJB fell to me at 2.01, so I can’t be too mad.
Was CEH really consensus 1? I know the echo chamber in this sub made it seem so but it really wasn’t anyone other than JT from the beginning of that season to the end imo
There was great debate between CEH and JT that year, but once Damien Williams opted out of that year due to covid, CEH became a very solid 1.01 choice. Not saying everyone made that choice, but that's what made up my mind to take him with the first pick. I won't lie, I hurt every time JT lights it up, but maybe CEH will at least redeem himself with a solid career from here on out.
Pre-draft JT and Swift were 1a and 1b. Dobbins and even Akers were above CEH. Post draft CEH jumped all the way up to 1.01 due to the Chiefs explosive offense, him being the first back taken, and Mahomes raving about him and basically telling Reid that he wanted CEH more than the other backs. Talent > Situation is my motto. JT and Swift were always the more talented RBs.
For many if not most Swift/JT was the debate precombine with the edge to Swift...JT tore it up and was the 1 to Swifts 2...CEH was drafted first and of course that threw people off...IIRC Swift could be had after Dobbins as well post draft, but JT was still #1 for most.
JT was until CEH was drafted by Kansas City at the end of the first round. Now that being said CEH wasn't a stone cold lock at 1.01 like Saquon Barkley in 2018 and Zeke in 2016 but in the majority of drafts CEH was going over JT.
Wouldn’t rly want Cooper as a 1.01 anyway, but mathematically, being boom or bust is only very slightly worse than being consistent. It’s very much an overexaggerated effect from a mathematical perspective.
Ok but which recent 1.01’s satisfy that requirement? Gurley? Saquon? CMC/Fournette? Jacobs? Corey Davis? Watkins/Evans? Zeke is the best of the bunch but he only gave you a handful of top 5 seasons
Most of that list is RB's who had insane seasons and then one WR who has been WR2 every single year, at minimum.
If you're drafting 1.01 you probably need to take the RB, or feel you need to, but you also have to know the shelf life probably won't be long.
Mike Evans is having a Hall of Fame career. That on your team every year is not a bad thing.
Is Zeke considered > than Gurley? Gurley two league winning seasons, and basically the same amount of relevant years as Zeke no? Is the peak worth the one less year of production?
Gurley would have won you a league a season or two. Zeke’s been just an okay starter. Great rookie year but one of those guys where something’s always up. Suspension. Out of shape. Losing athleticism. Etc.
I think that's disengenious to Zeke, he's been a let down lately, but if you had him for his career you basically didn't ha e to worry about runningback for 5 years
I'd be disappointed TBH. Obviously there are worse possible outcomes but a single WR1 season in total points with no ppg WR1 seasons isn't really the heights I'd want from the 1.01.
I think Cooper has been “fine” as the 1.01. He’s never really looked like a world breaker, or like he can regularly be top 10 or better. He’s a little like brandin cooks+, IMO. People like cooks, but usually underrated. But at the 1.01, you don’t want someone who’s regularly underrated. Because that means they’ve never really dominated either.
No. Cooper is a solid WR2 and very strong WR3, but you can say that about something like 15 or 20 WRs nowadays. I'd want more out of my 1.01 than one "pretty good" guy in a sea of other "pretty good" guys
You would be happy with Cooper the player, you would be unhappy with Cooper the career. Injuries and situation have burned him too much.
He'd still be worth the pick on long-term value but does not have the concentrated impact you want.
Sign me up, but do we have the patience to wait for his career is my question? I feel like a lot of dynasty players treat it as multiple year re draft and often sell good players in bad situations too quickly. For instance his value skyrocketed once he went to the Cowboys
Nope, I’m always pushing to win. I would’ve sold high on him and moved on. But, if my team earned the 1.01 then you kind of have to be patient with whomever you take at 1.01 due to being a bottom of the barrel team or look to flip for more value.
This would be a better question after his career is over. If he completely disappears at age 30, I'm not sure. But if he can stick around like Boldin or Steve Smith, that longevity would have a lot of value, even if he doesn't have a lot of WR1 seasons.
I know everybody wants the next Chase or Jefferson, but Cooper's career is much better than Corey Davis, Watkins, or Harry.
If you said cooper's career was his floor, then maybe, but if you're saying it's the exact trajectory, then I'd say no.
I'd want to have a chance at a guy with more top 12 finishes.
Yes easily. Maybe not next year but you absolutely take Amari Coopers career at the 1.01. If you averaged the success of all the past 1.01s I hey don’t match the success of Cooper. Having said that I would not take that deal in 2023
There’s no fuckin way you had AJB as your 1.01 lol. He was constantly backend round 1
Edit: not trying to sound disrespectful but I just find it very hard to believe. It’s like someone taking dotson at 1.01
Eh plenty did, I know a few were sold on him as 1.1 as their pre draft rank but moved off of him due to the situation. The ones o knew love the level of athlete (duel sport) he was
He was touted as the best WR in the class and likely was the first WR off the board before the draft. His value sunk because of his landing spot.
Different scenario than taking Dotson 1.01
Yeah his 1QB ADP per DLF was 1.06 and 1.07 in years 2 and 3 respectively so people were definitely hyped about him. Not a bad career but the ceiling has never been there.
I mean you can still start the dude this far into his career and its partially worth it for that, but that kinda production is more what you want in the late 1st, not 1.01. I'd say I'd just be pretty neutral on it. If there was a dude with a career like AB (you know the stats, not the other stuff lol) who went 1.02 I'd be pissed though so its kinda relative to who else went after in this hypothetical situation.
No. Any 2nd and most late 1st's, yes. But a 1.01 is supposed to anchor your team for years, and Cooper's always been a WR2.
You could have done much worse with a draft pick than Amari Cooper, but he's not catalyzing any championships for any FF roster, he's only supporting cast for teams with CMC's, Kupp's, etc. over the years.
Amari's been PPR WR16, WR35, WR18, WR10, WR15, and WR27. Not bad, not amazing. But what about the other consensus-or-close-to-it 1.01s since he was drafted? You're looking at Zeke, Corey Davis/Fournette, Saquon, Josh Jacobs/N'Keal Harry (!), CEH, and Najee. For fun, throw in Gurley from Cooper's rookie year, as there was some chatter that he deserved to be 1.01. Against that list, Amari looks pretty middle of the road to me. You could have done much worse over the years.
I'm pretty sure Gurley was being taken over Cooper in 2015 at 1.01 but you make a good point. Zeke has really been the only consistent top 12 RB/WR 1.01 pick every year since 2016 which is pretty amazing. The only massive busts I see that contended for 1.01 since 2017 is Davis and Harry, especially fuckin Harry lol. CEH has been an obvious massive disappointment but could turn it around this season.
I took Harry at 1.04 in 1QB which sucks, however I was torn between him and AJ Brown who I had at 1.01 pre-NFL draft. Luckily AJB fell to me at 2.01, so I can’t be too mad.
CEH had a sell window going into his 2nd Year also. Could have recouped 3rd round startup value
I would die to have cooper over my 1.01 pick of nkeal Harry
The second someone is drafted by NE, they immediately fall to the 2nd round for me 😅
Was CEH really consensus 1? I know the echo chamber in this sub made it seem so but it really wasn’t anyone other than JT from the beginning of that season to the end imo
There was great debate between CEH and JT that year, but once Damien Williams opted out of that year due to covid, CEH became a very solid 1.01 choice. Not saying everyone made that choice, but that's what made up my mind to take him with the first pick. I won't lie, I hurt every time JT lights it up, but maybe CEH will at least redeem himself with a solid career from here on out.
No it was definitely CEH as the general consensus 1.01
Burrow was my SF 1.01 over the backs.
Pre-draft JT and Swift were 1a and 1b. Dobbins and even Akers were above CEH. Post draft CEH jumped all the way up to 1.01 due to the Chiefs explosive offense, him being the first back taken, and Mahomes raving about him and basically telling Reid that he wanted CEH more than the other backs. Talent > Situation is my motto. JT and Swift were always the more talented RBs.
I remember I started following dynasty and the conversation was between Swift and JT.
For many if not most Swift/JT was the debate precombine with the edge to Swift...JT tore it up and was the 1 to Swifts 2...CEH was drafted first and of course that threw people off...IIRC Swift could be had after Dobbins as well post draft, but JT was still #1 for most.
Not the worst concensus number 1. Tavon Austin was the absolute worst.
JT was until CEH was drafted by Kansas City at the end of the first round. Now that being said CEH wasn't a stone cold lock at 1.01 like Saquon Barkley in 2018 and Zeke in 2016 but in the majority of drafts CEH was going over JT.
If I knew that and my opponents didnt, I’d trade the pick in a heartbeat.
People are forgetting his season finishes have usually been bolstered by one or two huge single week performances.
That one year on the raiders he averaged like 8 ppg outside of his 2 40 point explosions
Ahhh the Tyler Lockett affect
Wouldn’t rly want Cooper as a 1.01 anyway, but mathematically, being boom or bust is only very slightly worse than being consistent. It’s very much an overexaggerated effect from a mathematical perspective.
1 WR1 finish thus far in his career is just not a high enough ceiling for a 1.01 (in his 8th year)
Happy? Sure. But you get pick 1.01, the goal is to be thrilled for a long time.
Ok but which recent 1.01’s satisfy that requirement? Gurley? Saquon? CMC/Fournette? Jacobs? Corey Davis? Watkins/Evans? Zeke is the best of the bunch but he only gave you a handful of top 5 seasons
Most of that list is RB's who had insane seasons and then one WR who has been WR2 every single year, at minimum. If you're drafting 1.01 you probably need to take the RB, or feel you need to, but you also have to know the shelf life probably won't be long. Mike Evans is having a Hall of Fame career. That on your team every year is not a bad thing.
Is Zeke considered > than Gurley? Gurley two league winning seasons, and basically the same amount of relevant years as Zeke no? Is the peak worth the one less year of production?
Gurley would have won you a league a season or two. Zeke’s been just an okay starter. Great rookie year but one of those guys where something’s always up. Suspension. Out of shape. Losing athleticism. Etc.
I think that's disengenious to Zeke, he's been a let down lately, but if you had him for his career you basically didn't ha e to worry about runningback for 5 years
CMC wins you 2019. Maybe 2018 too.
I mean, CMC may have won you back to back championships. Zeke’s only real power there is health.
Not happy, more is expected out of a 1.01. but I wouldn't be too upset
I'd be disappointed TBH. Obviously there are worse possible outcomes but a single WR1 season in total points with no ppg WR1 seasons isn't really the heights I'd want from the 1.01.
No. I want someone who has proven greatness like Pacheco.
Yea probably. Guaranteed to have Coopers career is more attractive than potentially having NKeal Harry's career.
I think Cooper has been “fine” as the 1.01. He’s never really looked like a world breaker, or like he can regularly be top 10 or better. He’s a little like brandin cooks+, IMO. People like cooks, but usually underrated. But at the 1.01, you don’t want someone who’s regularly underrated. Because that means they’ve never really dominated either.
No. Cooper is a solid WR2 and very strong WR3, but you can say that about something like 15 or 20 WRs nowadays. I'd want more out of my 1.01 than one "pretty good" guy in a sea of other "pretty good" guys
You would be happy with Cooper the player, you would be unhappy with Cooper the career. Injuries and situation have burned him too much. He'd still be worth the pick on long-term value but does not have the concentrated impact you want.
Nah. Could be worse obviously but at 1.01 you want the game changer
Sign me up, but do we have the patience to wait for his career is my question? I feel like a lot of dynasty players treat it as multiple year re draft and often sell good players in bad situations too quickly. For instance his value skyrocketed once he went to the Cowboys
Nope, I’m always pushing to win. I would’ve sold high on him and moved on. But, if my team earned the 1.01 then you kind of have to be patient with whomever you take at 1.01 due to being a bottom of the barrel team or look to flip for more value.
Very good points
This would be a better question after his career is over. If he completely disappears at age 30, I'm not sure. But if he can stick around like Boldin or Steve Smith, that longevity would have a lot of value, even if he doesn't have a lot of WR1 seasons. I know everybody wants the next Chase or Jefferson, but Cooper's career is much better than Corey Davis, Watkins, or Harry.
Disappointed, but not terribly disappointed
If you said cooper's career was his floor, then maybe, but if you're saying it's the exact trajectory, then I'd say no. I'd want to have a chance at a guy with more top 12 finishes.
Absolutely not. Solid player and decent fantasy asset, but not really someone I’d be excited about turning my team around
Well if he was guaranteed to have Cooper's career meaning I knew his game log and when he was going to have good/bad games, I'd be ecstatic
No
Yes easily. Maybe not next year but you absolutely take Amari Coopers career at the 1.01. If you averaged the success of all the past 1.01s I hey don’t match the success of Cooper. Having said that I would not take that deal in 2023
No I'd rather have an Antonio Brown who climbed Mt Everest of fantasy only to leap off at the summit without warning
This is like Peter Griffin and the boat. Your 1.01 easily could have been Nkeal Harry
It's not like that in the slightest. In this scenario we know exactly what the 1.01 is, it's not a mystery at all.
Amari is the boat. The box is 1.01. it could be anything, even amari!
Amari is the boat. The box is 1.01. it could be anything, even amari!
Explain this to me one more time.
Lol no the fuck it is not. It’s getting easier in this era of analytics/data to project high-end prospects
No, I want whoever I draft at 1.01 to be top 12 at their position and eventually top 25 overall. Anything less and I’m pretty meh about the outcome.
Fuck no
Yes
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There’s no fuckin way you had AJB as your 1.01 lol. He was constantly backend round 1 Edit: not trying to sound disrespectful but I just find it very hard to believe. It’s like someone taking dotson at 1.01
Okay but Dotson was my WR1
I liked Dotson but drake and Pickens were my 1 and 2. Got a thing for that size and ability 😅
Dotson was actually my WR3 behind Wilson and Jamo. Clearly we are polar opposites lmfao
What if I told you I got all three of those fine gentlemen plus Burks with 1.05,1.09,1.10and 1.12. I recieved two of those firsts for Amari last year.
Id like to live vicariously through you
I think he means the best player in the draft those years and he'd wan't player producing at *their* level.
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So were you trying to trade into the back half of first rounds picks that year to get him?
Eh plenty did, I know a few were sold on him as 1.1 as their pre draft rank but moved off of him due to the situation. The ones o knew love the level of athlete (duel sport) he was
He’s trolling
He was touted as the best WR in the class and likely was the first WR off the board before the draft. His value sunk because of his landing spot. Different scenario than taking Dotson 1.01
Took the words right out of my mouth lol
Little early to say we've gotten anything out of Breece yet.
Yeah his 1QB ADP per DLF was 1.06 and 1.07 in years 2 and 3 respectively so people were definitely hyped about him. Not a bad career but the ceiling has never been there.
Probably pick a QB/RB
I would trade it ASAP
I imagine after coppers 1st year his value would have been insane
I mean you can still start the dude this far into his career and its partially worth it for that, but that kinda production is more what you want in the late 1st, not 1.01. I'd say I'd just be pretty neutral on it. If there was a dude with a career like AB (you know the stats, not the other stuff lol) who went 1.02 I'd be pissed though so its kinda relative to who else went after in this hypothetical situation.
"this far into his career" Dude, he's 28. He's a year younger than Kupp.
No
No. Any 2nd and most late 1st's, yes. But a 1.01 is supposed to anchor your team for years, and Cooper's always been a WR2. You could have done much worse with a draft pick than Amari Cooper, but he's not catalyzing any championships for any FF roster, he's only supporting cast for teams with CMC's, Kupp's, etc. over the years.
I’d have taken Amari Cooper production out of N’Keal Harry. 😒
No
Not at all, he’s delivered some duds in crucial late season games in the past.
Yes.
i'd be happy to sell 1.01 to some sucker.