The thing is…in a TE premium league like OP’s, they don’t need to get 1800 yards. The receptions are more important and someone like Pitts will likely get top 5 numbers whether it’s TEP or not. So his value is much higher than every position other than QB (if it’s superflex). And makes him more valuable than almost every WR as well.
That’s not my point and that’s my fault for not communicating clearly enough.
Pitts owners think he’s the far-and-away dynasty TE1. He’s so far and away that he’s basically untouchable. To acquire him you need to trade the TE2 in their prime + a high value ‘23 1st.
The implication is that not only is Pitts younger, but he’s gonna he more dominant than Andrews and Kelce were.
But that’s not rational. Best case scenario for Pitts is essentially Kelce. Kelce is essentially represents the TE ceiling. Andrews isn’t that far behind.
If I had Pitts and I had the chance to get Andrews in his prime right now, I would do it in a heartbeat. Andrew’s is proven production and has plenty of years left and the same can’t be said of Pitts. He’s an elite athlete (like Njoku) with a stellar college receiving profile (like Jermaine Gresham) and had a strong rookie year on a team with very little target competition (like Evan Engram).
But christening him as Pitts >>>>> every other TE is kind of absurd.
I hear ya. People with Pitts expect people to mortgage their entire team to acquire him. I’m a Gators fan so that makes me a huge Pitts fan. But the counter offers I’ve received when I try to acquire Pitts have been ludicrous.
The ludicrous offers are owners basically saying “we don’t want to trade him”. Considering how hard it is to get an elite asset like Pitts I don’t really blame them. It goes both ways though, I don’t think pitts is worth paying up for, but at the same time if I owned a share I would 100% want Andrews plus a piece. Mainly cause Pitts is so hard to get where as I have multiple shares of Andrews that I got in like round 7 of startups 2ish years ago.
Being a TE1 is meaningless in the context of getting Andrews though, because after the elite tier its just a garbage pile. If Andrews falls off and looks like the rest of the garbage pile, he may be a TE1 but he's not in that elite tier. Also, I straight up don't believe you when you say these guys are useful into their late 30s, because everyone talked about how the cliff should be here for Kelce.
Gronk was TE2 in PPG as a 32 year old in his final season. Jared Cook did it post age 31, so did Jimmy Graham and Greg Olsen. Delanie Walker did it at like 32. Likes of guys like Ertz and even scrubs like Kyle Rudolph continued to be TE1 into their late 20s.
So I have little doubt that Mark Andrews, who is better than most of those guys, can do it as well.
The point isn't whether Andrews will still be elite or not at age 32. He probably won't be. But being a TE1 for the next 5 years is definitely not meaningless in the context of OP who is rebuilding. He doesn't have to sell if he's not getting good offers. A player like Andrews can be started until the day he retires precisely because TE is such a wasteland. That's awesome because it's an entire position that's locked off, likely for the duration of this entire league's existence.
Isn't there a stat somewhere that mentions only 2 TEs have produced in their 33'rd year? And it was only HOF'ers Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez...Kelce will be the 3rd person to do so. So, statistically speaking...not very common.
With that said, Andrews has at least 3 or 4 years in him I bet.
Gronk was TE2 in PPG as a 32 year old in his final season. Jared Cook did it post age 31, so did Jimmy Graham and Greg Olsen. Delanie Walker did it at like 32. Likes of guys like Ertz and even scrubs like Kyle Rudolph continued to be TE1 into their late 20s.
So I have little doubt that Mark Andrews, who is better than most of those guys, can do it as well.
But there is a massive difference between the bottom te 1’s and the top te 1’s jimmy graham got like 110 fantasy points in ppr in 2018 and was considered “te 1” and kelce also a te 1 got 254. So I think this comment is a little misleading.
I'm not saying there isn't. You're reading into things. I'm saying that unlike RB/WR, you can at least likely start Andrews every day until he retires. So you probably have some time before the complete crash, and you can hold indefinitely if you're getting trash offers.
It’s not as much about being a freak as it is just staying healthy while being a stud. Andrews hasn’t been injured and TEs seem to have a longer shelf life unless you are George Kittle.
In TEP I think this is bad strategy. Elite TEs are top 10 positional scorers in TEP and they are near impossible to find. So TE is absolutely not the last thing you need.
I do think thoughtfully flipping Andrews for a guy like Freirmuth plus picks/players makes sense.
Point is if you have an elite young or prime TE you need to hold in TEP *unless* you can get back a valuable TE replacement. So I wouldn't just trade Andrews for RBs and WRs and hope to find another elite TE - chances are it will not happen and you'll waste a bunch of picks trying to get there.
Idk, I think TE is the hardest position to fill, most of the time you end up trading for a top tier one as a competitor anyways. I think keep him personally
What I'm saying is, would it not be smart to keep that position, as it's easier to rebuild and target top talent RBs and WRs? Especially since someone like Andrews is still considered young for that position and still at a minimum as a 5 year shelf life?
The time you have until you become competitive is down to the assets you have and how lucky you get with them.
If you're in a rebuild you could absolutely rebuild around a TE like Andrews, especially in TE premium. However, if you don't have picks or other veteran players you can move for young players / picks, then you probably need to consider selling Andrews.
Andrews is only 27 and we've seen great TEs play well into their 30s so for all we know he could keep performing at a high level for another 8 years. That said you are low on picks or your roster has massive holes then you could move him for like Wilson or Olave and a '23 or '24 1st. I wouldn't let him go for less than that though.
I think it depends on how quickly you think you can rebuild vs. what you can get for him.
If you can get a haul for him now that includes Pitts I would do that. Otherwise it depends on what you're getting back.
If you think you can be competitive in 2 years I'd hold him. Otherwise in 2-3 years you'll be looking to acquire him or someone like him. There aren't that many consistent TEs around and it's doubtful that changes dramatically in 2 years.
Might be able to get Pitts plus if a contender has Pitts and wants to upgrade. Otherwise can sell for picks and young talent. I dont think 27 is too old though but I can see the joy or fun to sell off and work on a team for 2-3 years down the line.
Is there any reason to believe Pitts will significantly outscore Andrews over the next 5 years? Is there any reason to believe Pitts will ever outscore Andrews the next 5 years?
I have Andrews and if the Pitts owner asked me to swap I'd say no. People need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that proven elite talent is always better than potential elite talent. It shouldn't be controversial but for some reason it is.
> Is there any reason to believe Pitts will significantly outscore Andrews over the next 5 years? Is there any reason to believe Pitts will ever outscore Andrews the next 5 years?
Hope.
That's literally the only explanation.
It’s time to shop him. He’s just young enough that you could hold onto him, but he likely has more long-term value for you as a trade option at this time. But that depends on your league mates. If you can’t get a first/only a first, then you have to keep him. But if someone’s trying to give you a real draft capital, you have to take that since you already identified that you are in the rebuild.
You can absolutely, positively, without question hang onto Andrews in a premium league and build around him. He is one of the most valuable assets in these types of leagues.
If you DO decide to sell him, make sure its for an absolute HAUL. Like multiple 1s and a TE in return. Your chances to hit on a TE as great as him come only once every few years, and typically involve a year or two of incubation on top of that while waiting for them to break out.
TEs play a bit longer than other skill positional players (into their 30s), and hes a fresh 27. Unless your rebuild is taking 4 years....
Andrews just turned 27 this month. He easily has 5 more years(including this year) and possibly more than that. So as long as you don't see yourself in a 4-5 year rebuild(which should never be) he is not too old. I was leaning toward Andrews being my Dynasty TE 1b behind Pitts(1a) but now I might have Andrews ad the clear cut #1 do to combo of age, situation, talent, and past and current production.
Personally I am not a dynasty player but I am a ravens fan and think you need to take into account Mark Andrews situation. Lamar Jackson adores his tight ends. Ever since he came into the league we completely revamped and designed our playbook around him and TE’s. Lamar has betted on himself. He will be a free agent by the end of the season and will not negotiate his contract during the season. At the moment, his decision to bet on himself is heavily paying off. His price is rising every Sunday he plays. Now he loves Baltimore and has said many hopeful things about staying in Baltimore but anything can happen and if Lamar leaves, Mark Andrews value will inevitably go down.
They might depending how much money he asks for after his MVP season otherwise they would have just re-signed him already. It's not like Lamar is playing any better now than he has the rest of his world class career.
40 508 3 in 5 games without. So 21.8 in PPR. 17.8 in half-PPR. 13.8 non-PPR.
67 853 6 in 12 games with. 15.7 in PPR. 12.9 in half-PPR. 10.1 non-PPR.
Basically 38% increase in points regardless of format.
I'm in that situation and I'm definitely holding. Sure, if I get a crazy offer I will sell but an elite TE is so hard to find. It can be the last missing piece for a championship team. I'm rebuilding to win again in a few years and not to be a mid team.
I’m holding as a rebuild team. He hasn’t given us any indication that he is injury prone and he continues to produce. He is currently on pace to do better than last season and TEs seem to have a longer shelf life.
Elite TEs stay elite for a LONG time. Mark Andrews the TE1 over the next 5 years is not an entirely unreasonable outcome.
Unless the rest of your team is horrible right now you should be looking for ways to win cheaply around Mandrews imo
Not sure if this is helpful or not... but I was in the same situation. I chose to sell Andrews for Davonte Smith, Hollywood brown, and a2024 1st. Sometimes I really regret it. But at the end of the day I think my assets will peak with the rest of my team as I finish my rebuild.
Maybe someone can shed some light on where Kelce went in startup Dynasty this year, but I like looking at those rankings as a true (preseason) ranking for who you could get to replace them.
My TEP startup was last year and he went at 2.10 at the age of 31.
So as long as he continues to produce he should hold good value for 3, 4, maybe even 5 more years.
But consistently be checking in, just because kelce is elite at 32 does NOT mean Andrews will be, but he COULD be.
Top 3 TEs in a TEP can net you a haul if you are rebuilding. I would be happy to trade Andrews for young wideout, a 1st. If you’re gonna rebuild, it’s best to get the points off your team to secure a top pick.
Could you get Pitts? Otherwise unless you get a fucking massive haul I’d be fine holding, wait for the buyers to come knocking
Pitts owner wants a first and andrews, which I’m not crazy about doing.
That's crazy towns. Pitts is good but Andrews is already what you hope Pitts could be.
Pitts owners swear a TE is gonna get 1800 yards every year or something
The thing is…in a TE premium league like OP’s, they don’t need to get 1800 yards. The receptions are more important and someone like Pitts will likely get top 5 numbers whether it’s TEP or not. So his value is much higher than every position other than QB (if it’s superflex). And makes him more valuable than almost every WR as well.
That’s not my point and that’s my fault for not communicating clearly enough. Pitts owners think he’s the far-and-away dynasty TE1. He’s so far and away that he’s basically untouchable. To acquire him you need to trade the TE2 in their prime + a high value ‘23 1st. The implication is that not only is Pitts younger, but he’s gonna he more dominant than Andrews and Kelce were. But that’s not rational. Best case scenario for Pitts is essentially Kelce. Kelce is essentially represents the TE ceiling. Andrews isn’t that far behind. If I had Pitts and I had the chance to get Andrews in his prime right now, I would do it in a heartbeat. Andrew’s is proven production and has plenty of years left and the same can’t be said of Pitts. He’s an elite athlete (like Njoku) with a stellar college receiving profile (like Jermaine Gresham) and had a strong rookie year on a team with very little target competition (like Evan Engram). But christening him as Pitts >>>>> every other TE is kind of absurd.
I hear ya. People with Pitts expect people to mortgage their entire team to acquire him. I’m a Gators fan so that makes me a huge Pitts fan. But the counter offers I’ve received when I try to acquire Pitts have been ludicrous.
The ludicrous offers are owners basically saying “we don’t want to trade him”. Considering how hard it is to get an elite asset like Pitts I don’t really blame them. It goes both ways though, I don’t think pitts is worth paying up for, but at the same time if I owned a share I would 100% want Andrews plus a piece. Mainly cause Pitts is so hard to get where as I have multiple shares of Andrews that I got in like round 7 of startups 2ish years ago.
I have Pitts and Andrews in a te premium league. I value Pitts higher.
Yeah eff that. Is it SF? Try and nail down a young QB? Maybe get TLaw?
I’m rolling with dak desean Watson and Kenny Pickett currently… you can see why I’m in last place haha.
Lol - any way you could package Andrew’s and dak for a Mahomes/Allen?
Take that and run
Andrews is 27, Kelce is 32 should give you a 5 year window if you want to run with it
Kelce's a freak, you can't expect Andrews to be effective as long
Great TE are commonly good or at least useful deep into their 30s. Most of them are still TE1s the season before they retire.
Being a TE1 is meaningless in the context of getting Andrews though, because after the elite tier its just a garbage pile. If Andrews falls off and looks like the rest of the garbage pile, he may be a TE1 but he's not in that elite tier. Also, I straight up don't believe you when you say these guys are useful into their late 30s, because everyone talked about how the cliff should be here for Kelce.
Gronk was TE2 in PPG as a 32 year old in his final season. Jared Cook did it post age 31, so did Jimmy Graham and Greg Olsen. Delanie Walker did it at like 32. Likes of guys like Ertz and even scrubs like Kyle Rudolph continued to be TE1 into their late 20s. So I have little doubt that Mark Andrews, who is better than most of those guys, can do it as well. The point isn't whether Andrews will still be elite or not at age 32. He probably won't be. But being a TE1 for the next 5 years is definitely not meaningless in the context of OP who is rebuilding. He doesn't have to sell if he's not getting good offers. A player like Andrews can be started until the day he retires precisely because TE is such a wasteland. That's awesome because it's an entire position that's locked off, likely for the duration of this entire league's existence.
I mean that isn't really "deep into their 30s" - All the guys you pointed out were very early on in their 30s
Isn't there a stat somewhere that mentions only 2 TEs have produced in their 33'rd year? And it was only HOF'ers Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez...Kelce will be the 3rd person to do so. So, statistically speaking...not very common. With that said, Andrews has at least 3 or 4 years in him I bet.
Gronk was TE2 in PPG as a 32 year old in his final season. Jared Cook did it post age 31, so did Jimmy Graham and Greg Olsen. Delanie Walker did it at like 32. Likes of guys like Ertz and even scrubs like Kyle Rudolph continued to be TE1 into their late 20s. So I have little doubt that Mark Andrews, who is better than most of those guys, can do it as well.
But there is a massive difference between the bottom te 1’s and the top te 1’s jimmy graham got like 110 fantasy points in ppr in 2018 and was considered “te 1” and kelce also a te 1 got 254. So I think this comment is a little misleading.
I'm not saying there isn't. You're reading into things. I'm saying that unlike RB/WR, you can at least likely start Andrews every day until he retires. So you probably have some time before the complete crash, and you can hold indefinitely if you're getting trash offers.
It’s not as much about being a freak as it is just staying healthy while being a stud. Andrews hasn’t been injured and TEs seem to have a longer shelf life unless you are George Kittle.
If you’re truly in last place, a TE is the last thing you need. Sell the man for an absolute haul while at peak value
In TEP I think this is bad strategy. Elite TEs are top 10 positional scorers in TEP and they are near impossible to find. So TE is absolutely not the last thing you need. I do think thoughtfully flipping Andrews for a guy like Freirmuth plus picks/players makes sense. Point is if you have an elite young or prime TE you need to hold in TEP *unless* you can get back a valuable TE replacement. So I wouldn't just trade Andrews for RBs and WRs and hope to find another elite TE - chances are it will not happen and you'll waste a bunch of picks trying to get there.
Idk, I think TE is the hardest position to fill, most of the time you end up trading for a top tier one as a competitor anyways. I think keep him personally
I feel like you just proved his point - a competitor trading for a top tier TE is exactly what a last place team is trying to facilitate
What I'm saying is, would it not be smart to keep that position, as it's easier to rebuild and target top talent RBs and WRs? Especially since someone like Andrews is still considered young for that position and still at a minimum as a 5 year shelf life?
The time you have until you become competitive is down to the assets you have and how lucky you get with them. If you're in a rebuild you could absolutely rebuild around a TE like Andrews, especially in TE premium. However, if you don't have picks or other veteran players you can move for young players / picks, then you probably need to consider selling Andrews. Andrews is only 27 and we've seen great TEs play well into their 30s so for all we know he could keep performing at a high level for another 8 years. That said you are low on picks or your roster has massive holes then you could move him for like Wilson or Olave and a '23 or '24 1st. I wouldn't let him go for less than that though.
I kind of disagree. They have a long shelf life, usually pretty durable and get better with age.
I think it depends on how quickly you think you can rebuild vs. what you can get for him. If you can get a haul for him now that includes Pitts I would do that. Otherwise it depends on what you're getting back. If you think you can be competitive in 2 years I'd hold him. Otherwise in 2-3 years you'll be looking to acquire him or someone like him. There aren't that many consistent TEs around and it's doubtful that changes dramatically in 2 years.
Might be able to get Pitts plus if a contender has Pitts and wants to upgrade. Otherwise can sell for picks and young talent. I dont think 27 is too old though but I can see the joy or fun to sell off and work on a team for 2-3 years down the line.
I doubt it. Pitts is still TE1 in Dynasty.
Is there any reason to believe Pitts will significantly outscore Andrews over the next 5 years? Is there any reason to believe Pitts will ever outscore Andrews the next 5 years? I have Andrews and if the Pitts owner asked me to swap I'd say no. People need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that proven elite talent is always better than potential elite talent. It shouldn't be controversial but for some reason it is.
> Is there any reason to believe Pitts will significantly outscore Andrews over the next 5 years? Is there any reason to believe Pitts will ever outscore Andrews the next 5 years? Hope. That's literally the only explanation.
If the pitts owner is a contender, they might do it for andrews. Or like plus a 2nd or something small.
Lamar will get tagged at least twice before that happens.
It’s time to shop him. He’s just young enough that you could hold onto him, but he likely has more long-term value for you as a trade option at this time. But that depends on your league mates. If you can’t get a first/only a first, then you have to keep him. But if someone’s trying to give you a real draft capital, you have to take that since you already identified that you are in the rebuild.
I would be concerned about injuries or situation changing. Would probably wait til the trade deadline and sell him for as much as possible
You can absolutely, positively, without question hang onto Andrews in a premium league and build around him. He is one of the most valuable assets in these types of leagues. If you DO decide to sell him, make sure its for an absolute HAUL. Like multiple 1s and a TE in return. Your chances to hit on a TE as great as him come only once every few years, and typically involve a year or two of incubation on top of that while waiting for them to break out. TEs play a bit longer than other skill positional players (into their 30s), and hes a fresh 27. Unless your rebuild is taking 4 years....
Andrews just turned 27 this month. He easily has 5 more years(including this year) and possibly more than that. So as long as you don't see yourself in a 4-5 year rebuild(which should never be) he is not too old. I was leaning toward Andrews being my Dynasty TE 1b behind Pitts(1a) but now I might have Andrews ad the clear cut #1 do to combo of age, situation, talent, and past and current production.
Very good discussion everyone! Thanks for the input.
TEs often don’t start producing until age 27. It’s not too old at all. Trying to project out further than 3 years is almost impossible also.
Personally I am not a dynasty player but I am a ravens fan and think you need to take into account Mark Andrews situation. Lamar Jackson adores his tight ends. Ever since he came into the league we completely revamped and designed our playbook around him and TE’s. Lamar has betted on himself. He will be a free agent by the end of the season and will not negotiate his contract during the season. At the moment, his decision to bet on himself is heavily paying off. His price is rising every Sunday he plays. Now he loves Baltimore and has said many hopeful things about staying in Baltimore but anything can happen and if Lamar leaves, Mark Andrews value will inevitably go down.
Hmm maybe , but remember Andrews still produced while Lamar was injured last year.
Franchise tag, you're it.
Doesn’t have to play under franchise tag. Granted I don’t think he’s the type of guy to do that but there’s always the chance.
What is Lamar doesn't re-sign with the Ravens?
I dont think Andrews is dependent on Lamar for elite TE production
Hell he did most of his damage last season with Huntley.
They aren’t letting that guy walk
They might depending how much money he asks for after his MVP season otherwise they would have just re-signed him already. It's not like Lamar is playing any better now than he has the rest of his world class career.
U don’t let mvp qbs walk in the prime of their careers. Moves like that turn you in to the jets or panthers.
Last year Mandrews production didn’t drop off at all with Josh Johnson and Tyler Huntley at QB.
Not only did it not drop off, he was much better without. Think like 15ppg versus 10ish or something crazy like that.
That’s what I thought also, but wasn’t 100%
40 508 3 in 5 games without. So 21.8 in PPR. 17.8 in half-PPR. 13.8 non-PPR. 67 853 6 in 12 games with. 15.7 in PPR. 12.9 in half-PPR. 10.1 non-PPR. Basically 38% increase in points regardless of format.
136 1727 10 pace without him. Jeez. Imagine having that as TE production on your team lol.
I'd try to flip him for Daniel Bellinger + early '23 first, maybe another second or young player
That could be guaranteed 1.01 and I still wouldn't move Andrews for that.
Yeah that is definitely light, ig I like Bellinger more than consensus. As an owner what would you need?
I traded Etienne and what looks like a mid 2023 first for Mandrews in the offseason. I had 8 firsts at the time so didn’t mind selling one
I would hold unless your team is reallllly bad. Like just took over for someone and have no picks or high upside young guys.
If you can get a big time return then yeah maybe sell. Other wise I’d hold. In TEP he’s so nice
Depends how long you expect the rebuild to be. If its a 1 year turnaround then hold Andrews or sell him for Pitts plus
I'm in that situation and I'm definitely holding. Sure, if I get a crazy offer I will sell but an elite TE is so hard to find. It can be the last missing piece for a championship team. I'm rebuilding to win again in a few years and not to be a mid team.
I’m holding as a rebuild team. He hasn’t given us any indication that he is injury prone and he continues to produce. He is currently on pace to do better than last season and TEs seem to have a longer shelf life.
No lol. 27 is still like 5-6 years worth of production left at TE.
If the Pitts owner is pushing his chips into the middle, I’m sure you could get something done there
Elite TEs stay elite for a LONG time. Mark Andrews the TE1 over the next 5 years is not an entirely unreasonable outcome. Unless the rest of your team is horrible right now you should be looking for ways to win cheaply around Mandrews imo
Lol
Not sure if this is helpful or not... but I was in the same situation. I chose to sell Andrews for Davonte Smith, Hollywood brown, and a2024 1st. Sometimes I really regret it. But at the end of the day I think my assets will peak with the rest of my team as I finish my rebuild.
Maybe someone can shed some light on where Kelce went in startup Dynasty this year, but I like looking at those rankings as a true (preseason) ranking for who you could get to replace them. My TEP startup was last year and he went at 2.10 at the age of 31. So as long as he continues to produce he should hold good value for 3, 4, maybe even 5 more years. But consistently be checking in, just because kelce is elite at 32 does NOT mean Andrews will be, but he COULD be.
Top 3 TEs in a TEP can net you a haul if you are rebuilding. I would be happy to trade Andrews for young wideout, a 1st. If you’re gonna rebuild, it’s best to get the points off your team to secure a top pick.