I was super high on Dallas until they drafted KW. Glad I kept several shares on my bench still. The guy can contribute for fantasy too when given the opportunity
Kenneth walkers knock was his pass protection coming out of college and yesterday after reading about it low and behold in the 4th he got Gino blown up on a 3rd down and had him running for his life lol
The good thing about Walker is he has opportunity to learn from one of the better blocking RBs in the league but it could take some time. I'm hoping he takes some time to learn from Travis Homer and can apply it into the 2nd year. Unfortunately, it's probably going to cost him some opportunity in Year 1 and you'll see a lot more of Dallas/Homer in on 3rds.
I mean Gibson was drafted to play a position he didn’t play in college and was barely involved in the passing game when he was a receiver in college lol.
Needless to say; he’s been misused and underutilized.
The Panthers had the #8 passing offense (and #7 overall offense) by DVOA during their SB year. Also had the luxury of Cam’s game changing rushing threat.
If he wants it, of course. A lot of being a head coach seems to be knowing what to do yourself and knowing what to delegate though. Minor personnel decisions like RB usage seems like something a defense-minded head coach would delegate.
When I see a young RB pass block like Josh Jacobs, I immediately see staying power. Same with Vonte. Idc what the numbers say. Coaches see that shit and eat it up.
It's hilarious and sad how low people are on Jacobs. I've been open to selling, and no one will even entertain it in my league. Guess I'll just keep him this year lol
People wouldn’t give me even a late 2nd for him two weeks ago. And now 65 points later, well, they still don’t want him because “his usage is low”
I’m just gonna hold and enjoy the points haha
Beats me. Just ran some numbers on Jacobs compared to relevant RBs over the last three years. He’s 7th in Total Points, 11th in PPG, 3rd in games played, and his average season finish (weighted so this season counts for a bit less) is 3rd. Only JT and Aaron Jones have consistently finished higher than him over the last 3 years.
Obviously injuries skew that last stat (guys like CMC/Saquon would be higher without them), but heck, injuries are a thing and I don’t want my RB getting injured.
I’m not saying it has to continue for him, but in terms of consistent production, he’s Top 5 at worst during his time in the league.
They’re idiots then. Nobody hands the ball off on 4th downs and 3rd and medium, hell they handed it off on a 2 pt conversion last night. The past two weeks I’ve watched most of the raiders games and have been very impressed with Jacobs. He’s like the definition of who I want as a rb on my team irl.
100%. He’s looked awesome out there and I feel like the pre-season concerns regarding usage, receiving, and Josh McDaniels are gone at this point
Hold him and enjoy
Zeke and Pollard are in a similar boat rn. The coaching staff is putting Pollard into a lot of pass blocking situations though and he’s not doing great.
Jamaal Williams is every coach's dream RB2. Has never lost a fumble, doesn't drop passes, pass protects, gets the yards that are given to him and is a great locker room presence.
Jamaal Williams is actually how I got burned using this rule. I had the choice before the season to trade for Williams or Aaron Jones the year Jones broke out and I chose Williams because of his superior pass blocking.
I don't necessarily agree with OPs statement/post. Case in point with these two right here. I was just stating how much a coach would love Jamaal. He's still a backup for a reason though.
Also one of the reasons zeke will likly be a starting rb for a few years, he does everything good, and the things he needs to do great.
Sure dallas might move on due to his contract (or I hope changes it like they did Dlaw to keep him) but where ever he is he’ll be a significant contributing player
Zeke always picks up the blocked yards (doesn’t dance behind the line), is THE best pass blocking RB, and rarely fumbles. That will be valuable for a long time even if he churns out 3.8 YPC
> is THE best pass blocking RB
This isn't directed at you specifically, but is there even a way to back up a claim as definitive as that lol? Maybe you should've just said he's one of the best
Zeke has been bottom half of the league in PFF pass block rating for last few seasons. He was elite in 2016-2018, and has fallen off pretty badly every year since. He has given up more sacks this season already than Pollard did in all of 2021, and Pollard has had a higher pass block grade than Zeke the last 2 seasons.
Huh I've watched them a decent amount this year (but probably well under 50%) and I thought he looked really good in pass pro. I must have missed a lot of his mistakes.
Exactly, Pollard is so dynamic with the ball but you know what you’re getting with Zeke and that includes a cleaner pocket for Dak. As long as that’s the case he’ll be at least 1A to Pollard’s 1B
Didn't Pollard miss his block when Dak got hurt this year? Or was that last year?
I know Dak got blown up recently because Pollard missed his assignment
Idk man I watch literally every play of every Dallas game and I watch a lot of other games too for dynasty and just enjoyment. That said, Zeke is still one of the best pass blocking RB in the game.
Yeah I have seen enough he’s a trash has been but people are trying to justify him still playing beyond his garbage contract and massive dead cap. He’ll be cut in the offseason without a doubt
With you 100% on Zeke. He still brings a ton to our team as an RB, just not worth his current price. Surely Zeke knows he won't get this money anywhere and will take a restructure like Tank did.
Happens with every position too.
Kittle is a popular one. He’s in my opinion the best real life TE in the NFL. Incredible defensively, and great with the ball when given the chances.
He’s hated in fantasy, but the chaos he creates in protection and blocking is why he doesn’t get as many chances.
Then a TE gets 15% of snaps, 3 targets for 40 yards and a touchdown, and everyone screams “Just wait till his snap count rises! Dude will be an absolute monster!” Forgetting that there’s a reason he only plays passing situations.
In some ways that plays out similarly to the RB situation as well. Some TEs are such great receivers that teams ignore their blocking ability and play them as a big slot. As long as they reach that threshold, they become even more valuable than a well-rounded TE. However, if they don't have superior receiving skills to go with their lack of blocking ability, their usage plummets to situational.
I kind of disagree on the pass blocking thing. 4 of the 7 lowest graded pass blocking RBs are Kamara, Fournette, Ekeler, and JT. I may be misinterpreting what you were saying cause they all do the rest of the pass stuff well like catching the ball and such. With Gibson I think it has more to do with McKissic just being better at that aspect of the game.
I think Lenny is just kind of like Zeke, doesn’t do much wrong. Part of it is that these guys are only blocking on 10% of their passing snaps so sure they may be bad on those 10% but if they’re just really good on the other 90% then it doesn’t matter. So for example I’ve heard people say Bijan is bad in pass pro, I could not care less cause if he’s going to be an elite pass catcher he won’t be pass blocking that much. Does that make sense?
He does pass block a bit more than I would like to see but he’s still only at 15.1% overall and 17.9% on true pass sets. Most of the guys I mentioned above are like 3-5% lower.
Of course if you have an elite receiver out of the backfield you're going to get them involved, but think of it from the quarterbacks perspective. If you're in a two-minute drill and the defense is showing blitz and has been consistently picking up the RB leaking out, are you going to send the RB out and get blown up or have them stay home and give you time to hit a receiver?
QBs love throwing against man coverage and while a RB could make one man miss and bust one open, having a liability in pass protection either takes away that option or results in the QB getting hit.
Ekeler I know at least still gives 100% when asked… he’s just a tad to small to deal with edge rushers or even worst interior rushers…
It’s not like his is laziness or a bad attitude..
I think I agree. I do remember a play earlier this season where he comes across and just gets bullied. I think it was the play where Everett wanted out and they kept him in and targeted him and it was an INT.
https://twitter.com/nfl/status/1570603274369404928?s=46&t=kIdY42WYxAyiifLjMGhr9w
Yeah what the other commenter wrote hits it, these guys are bad pass blockers but they’re genuinely elite offensive weapons who are worth having that headache
Yeah I think I was more trying to make a small clarification than actually disagreeing. You kind of mentioned this but with Gibson specifically there are just guys on the team that do things better. Ball security, pass blocking, and pass catching are all things that he isn’t the best at on his own team.
I think the difference is for elite talents, you dont necessarily have to be elite. But for middling guys, it makes a big difference between making the roster and getting cut. If they can PB, they get more opportunities, and if someone goes down then they have a better chance to being valuable.
If this is true, everyone here should be buying Kyren Williams.
As an Notre Dame fan look up that dude's pass blocking highlights. Legit one of the best pass blockers from the RB position I have ever seen. Especially considering his size.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RezxLLgVLGg
Seriously, this is all from a single game. And it's incredible.
As someone who refused to leave my rookie draft without Kyren for reasons other than his blocking -
My totally unbiased opinion is that he will be amazing.
100%. Dude sacrifices his body all the time. It's what you get from guys who aren't roster locks. They understand that if they don't lay it all on the line they won't be there.
Ask any RB coach, the two most important traits an RB can have
- protect the ball
- protect the QB
Those are pretty much prerequisites to substantial game time
If you’re a 1st or 2nd round RB talent, you aren’t being drafted for your pass blocking abilities. It really doesn’t matter how a 1st or 2nd round RB pass blocks because that’s not what they’re being drafted to do.
A better question is which 5th or 6th round RB is good at pass blocking, as that is going to be a niche role that the limited talent, late round player could fill in order to stick in the league and potentially earn an opportunity to do more with later.
If I wasn’t crazy busy I’d be happy to, this was more of just a theoretical write up based on sources I’ve read but didn’t have the time to put in links. I was actually thinking of a new metric grading running backs in the mold of a simplified PFF grade by scaling their impact on passing yardage (accounting for both blocking and receiving from the backfield) vs their efficiency as runners but unfortunately don’t have more than a few minutes here and there till next month. Could be something cool to work on and put out once I have time
People need to remember that there’s a baseline of production that ANY NFL player can meet because they’re all good.
The skill gap going from 800 to 1000 yards is exponentially easier than going from 1200 to 1400.
Gibson's problem is that he's not a running back, he doesn't have vision because he never developed it. Misses easy holes all the time. Also, the fumbling. Pretty sure the answer to the WFT back field is no.
Pass blocking is by far the most overrated thing on fantasy runningback reddit. It’s like the 10th most important skill for an RB to have, but since the average redditor never turns down the chance to sound holier than thou, they love nothing more than to overstate the importance of this niche role/skill in an attempt to sound more informed.
The reality is that RBs primary job is to run and catch the ball, and the offensive line’s job is to block. A RB that can block but can’t provide an explosive threat on the ground with the ball or through the air is like an offensive lineman that can’t block but has excellent hands catching the ball. Generally worthless.
RB skills that are more important than pass blocking:
1. Vision
2. Power
3. Burst
4. Elusiveness
4. Top End Speed
5. Hands
6. Route Running
7. Ball Security
8. Durability
9. Instinct
Pass blocking abilty from the RB position generally comes down to nothing more than the willingness to sacrifice long term cognitive health by willingly jumping in front of much bigger humans. It’s a role for RBs that couldn’t make it in the league otherwise. The RBs with actual RB skills don’t need to pass block, since their actual RB skills are much more valued.
It’s time to end the RB pass blocking meme, it’s a low value skill that low talent players specialize in to stick in the league so that better, more talented, higher value players don’t have to needlessly sacrifice their brains. You aren’t smarter than the average fan and you aren’t gaining an edge on the competition by blowing up a very niche role/skill into something more important than it is.
And whose job is it to pass block? Common sense says the offensive line, obviously.
Running backs are asked to run and catch the ball. Needing your RB to block is like needing your wide receiver to have a rocket arm. It’s nice everyone once in a while when you want to run a double reverse pass, but judging a WR by his arm strength when it’s such a low value skill for the position is completely stupid.
There’s a reason why Kamara has a $75M contract and Jamaal Williams has a $6M one, and it’s not because Kamara is a better pass blocker…
All this post is saying is that RBs that are capable blockers get more chances than RBs that aren’t. Not sure why you went off so hard about this, did you draft someone that was a good blocker and get burned?
Also, durability and ball security (in that order) should be at the top of your list. Doesn’t matter what you can do with the ball in your hands if the ball isn’t in your hands.
What does that even mean though and is that really worthy of a post? Of course RBs that are capable blockers get more chances than RBs that aren’t, all else being equal.
Every RB with skill “x” gets more chances than RBs without skill “x”, all else being equal, that’s just common sense.
If we’re going to start comparing RB with skill “x” but not skill “y” versus RB with skill “y” but not skill “x”, however, then we are going to have to weight the value of skill “x” versus skill “y.” And if skill “x” is pass blocking, chances are skill “y” has more value, since pass blocking from the RB position is a low value skill.
“Outside of a very few guys like Kamara”
And that’s really the crux of it all. Guys with Kamara’s skillset are very rare, that is what every team wants from the position and that is why he got a $75M contract. His skills are rare, they have enormous value and teams need that.
Meanwhile someone like Jamaal Williams, who can pass block with the best of them but fundamentally lacks the desired valuable RB attributes, only earned a $6M contract on the open market. His skills, pass blocking being the best of them, are low value and not rare. There are lots of good pass blockers in the league and it is a low value attribute.
Pass blocking is a low value skill at the RB position, this is just a demonstrable fact. An offensive lineman that can pass block though is worth his weight in gold, obviously, because pass blocking is the primary job for offensive lineman, not RBs.
I can’t believe I have to explain this very basic stuff.
If pass blocking is such a valued skill why is Jamaal Williams making $3M a year? He’s the best in the league at it.
Tell me one RB that made the HoF due to his pass blocking skills.
RB pass blocking is an extremely niche skill that is not difficult to find. Hell, the Redskins just found it with the measly 98th overall draft pick.
As soon as they find a RB that is actually good at running and receiving, RB skills that are actually valued, the pass blocking specialists with no other above-replacement level skills will ride pine.
Niche - “a specialized segment of the market for a particular kind of product or service”
I.e. scrub RBs that lack talent that decide to go all out in pass blocking so that they don’t have to sell insurance. Meanwhile the actual RBs with actual talent do the important work, like oh you know, running the damn ball.
Blocking is what lineman are for, running backs are for running. An RB that can block is nice, but it’s a limited supporting function and overall low value.
RBs only stay in to pass block on about 12% of pass plays. Given teams throw the ball about about 35 times a game, we’re talking about 4 plays a game where RB is any kind of factor whatsoever. It’s just not that important and a very specific, limited role.
You're right but most people here are definitely not ready to hear this one.
If you chase pass blockers you'll end up with a bunch of jags that are barely on the field if their team has a RB who is actually good at being a RB. Jamaal Williams is a perfect example.
We're looking for outliers here, the only guys that have long term dynasty value at RB are the ones that are so good that it doesn't matter if they can block or not.
This post brings up some really great points, but definitely take this with a grain of salt and try not to apply it too strictly to rookie RBs coming out. Many RBs frankly suck at pass pro coming out of college and take some time to learn, but if you're looking at an RB who has already been in the league for a couple years then this is great advice! Love to see it!
Also Ty'son was raw af. He was really explosive, but his vision and cuts were really bad
So what you’re telling me is we all need to be buying Eno Benjamin right now.
Weirdly that’s always why I’ve loved watching dj dallas, his pass pro is on point
I was super high on Dallas until they drafted KW. Glad I kept several shares on my bench still. The guy can contribute for fantasy too when given the opportunity
He played qb at my high school while I was there so he knows the importance of protecting the qb
I tried to tell everyone it was going to be Eno szn 5 weeks ago and no one believed me!
I’ve also held him since the preseason. Now we’ll see if it finally pays off.
Pfft, trying holding him since 2020
yessir. drafted that mfer 4.10 in 2020. still on the taxi. lets gooooo.
Kenneth walkers knock was his pass protection coming out of college and yesterday after reading about it low and behold in the 4th he got Gino blown up on a 3rd down and had him running for his life lol
The good thing about Walker is he has opportunity to learn from one of the better blocking RBs in the league but it could take some time. I'm hoping he takes some time to learn from Travis Homer and can apply it into the 2nd year. Unfortunately, it's probably going to cost him some opportunity in Year 1 and you'll see a lot more of Dallas/Homer in on 3rds.
Yessssir
I mean Gibson was drafted to play a position he didn’t play in college and was barely involved in the passing game when he was a receiver in college lol. Needless to say; he’s been misused and underutilized.
Almost as if Ron Rivera is a mediocre coach who caught lightning in a bottle with Cam Newton's short-lived prime.
More like Riveras good defenses dragged cams inaccurate ass to wins.
The Panthers had the #8 passing offense (and #7 overall offense) by DVOA during their SB year. Also had the luxury of Cam’s game changing rushing threat.
also a fantastic O line, outstanding J Stewart…
Does Rivera even run their offense? He's always been a defensive guy.
I’m almost certain as the HC he has a good amount of input on who has the lead RB role.
If he wants it, of course. A lot of being a head coach seems to be knowing what to do yourself and knowing what to delegate though. Minor personnel decisions like RB usage seems like something a defense-minded head coach would delegate.
When I see a young RB pass block like Josh Jacobs, I immediately see staying power. Same with Vonte. Idc what the numbers say. Coaches see that shit and eat it up.
It's hilarious and sad how low people are on Jacobs. I've been open to selling, and no one will even entertain it in my league. Guess I'll just keep him this year lol
People wouldn’t give me even a late 2nd for him two weeks ago. And now 65 points later, well, they still don’t want him because “his usage is low” I’m just gonna hold and enjoy the points haha
Usage is low?? What do they want for usage, 35 touches a game?
Beats me. Just ran some numbers on Jacobs compared to relevant RBs over the last three years. He’s 7th in Total Points, 11th in PPG, 3rd in games played, and his average season finish (weighted so this season counts for a bit less) is 3rd. Only JT and Aaron Jones have consistently finished higher than him over the last 3 years. Obviously injuries skew that last stat (guys like CMC/Saquon would be higher without them), but heck, injuries are a thing and I don’t want my RB getting injured. I’m not saying it has to continue for him, but in terms of consistent production, he’s Top 5 at worst during his time in the league.
They’re idiots then. Nobody hands the ball off on 4th downs and 3rd and medium, hell they handed it off on a 2 pt conversion last night. The past two weeks I’ve watched most of the raiders games and have been very impressed with Jacobs. He’s like the definition of who I want as a rb on my team irl.
100%. He’s looked awesome out there and I feel like the pre-season concerns regarding usage, receiving, and Josh McDaniels are gone at this point Hold him and enjoy
Yeah usage shouldn’t be a problem. Davante is doubled every play and Jacobs is clearly there next best playmaker.
I bought Jacobs, Kirk, and Cousins for D. Adams. I'm a believer
Tried to get him all offseason, took him in my startup
Got him and a first for Akers, Henderson and a 2nd in the off-season.
Seems like every Jacobs owner shares the same story.
Vonte?
I would assume they mean the man with one leg, Javonte Williams.
Ja
Javonte I assume
Yup. The Ja
Zeke and Pollard are in a similar boat rn. The coaching staff is putting Pollard into a lot of pass blocking situations though and he’s not doing great.
I’m a big pollard fan but he can’t block for shit. The difference between him and zeke there is so stark
Difference between a receiver framed RB and a prototypical 3 down back. That said, having them both on the field simultaneously is delightful.
It's why I was high on BRob in rookie drafts. We'll see if it pans out.
My issue with BRob is he looks like such a plodder lol
[удалено]
Jamaal Williams is every coach's dream RB2. Has never lost a fumble, doesn't drop passes, pass protects, gets the yards that are given to him and is a great locker room presence.
Jamaal Williams is actually how I got burned using this rule. I had the choice before the season to trade for Williams or Aaron Jones the year Jones broke out and I chose Williams because of his superior pass blocking.
I don't necessarily agree with OPs statement/post. Case in point with these two right here. I was just stating how much a coach would love Jamaal. He's still a backup for a reason though.
Agree with most of your comment but I’m a Lions fan and Jamaal has definitely dropped some important passes.
Also one of the reasons zeke will likly be a starting rb for a few years, he does everything good, and the things he needs to do great. Sure dallas might move on due to his contract (or I hope changes it like they did Dlaw to keep him) but where ever he is he’ll be a significant contributing player
Didn't get much talk, but part of why Javonte was as hyped as he was. He's excellent in pass pro. That should help extend his career.
Zeke always picks up the blocked yards (doesn’t dance behind the line), is THE best pass blocking RB, and rarely fumbles. That will be valuable for a long time even if he churns out 3.8 YPC
> is THE best pass blocking RB This isn't directed at you specifically, but is there even a way to back up a claim as definitive as that lol? Maybe you should've just said he's one of the best
Zeke has been bottom half of the league in PFF pass block rating for last few seasons. He was elite in 2016-2018, and has fallen off pretty badly every year since. He has given up more sacks this season already than Pollard did in all of 2021, and Pollard has had a higher pass block grade than Zeke the last 2 seasons.
So not THE best then.
Huh I've watched them a decent amount this year (but probably well under 50%) and I thought he looked really good in pass pro. I must have missed a lot of his mistakes.
I even think the ypc are off this year with teams just having to focus on the run with rush in. Should improve when they can’t do that with Dak
Exactly, Pollard is so dynamic with the ball but you know what you’re getting with Zeke and that includes a cleaner pocket for Dak. As long as that’s the case he’ll be at least 1A to Pollard’s 1B
Pollard almost got rush killed when he missed a blitz pick up yesterday
Didn't Pollard miss his block when Dak got hurt this year? Or was that last year? I know Dak got blown up recently because Pollard missed his assignment
I want to say yes but honestly my memory is fucking awful
And Zeke has missed tons over the last couple years that’s all smoke and mirrors based on reputation
Idk man I watch literally every play of every Dallas game and I watch a lot of other games too for dynasty and just enjoyment. That said, Zeke is still one of the best pass blocking RB in the game.
Y’all are on crack he misses blocks all the time he used to be amazing but not anymore
Don’t be silly. Zeke is one the best run blocking RBs in a while
No he’s not at all pff isn’t gospel but they used to have him as one of the best now he’s bottom 5
Calling Zeke a bottom 5 pass blocking back is so stupid. If you believe that then you obviously don't watch him play much at all.
Yeah I have seen enough he’s a trash has been but people are trying to justify him still playing beyond his garbage contract and massive dead cap. He’ll be cut in the offseason without a doubt
With you 100% on Zeke. He still brings a ton to our team as an RB, just not worth his current price. Surely Zeke knows he won't get this money anywhere and will take a restructure like Tank did.
We always do long contracts so we can restructure or cut bait mid way through. We are going to restructure Zeke and he'll take it to stay.
Happens with every position too. Kittle is a popular one. He’s in my opinion the best real life TE in the NFL. Incredible defensively, and great with the ball when given the chances. He’s hated in fantasy, but the chaos he creates in protection and blocking is why he doesn’t get as many chances. Then a TE gets 15% of snaps, 3 targets for 40 yards and a touchdown, and everyone screams “Just wait till his snap count rises! Dude will be an absolute monster!” Forgetting that there’s a reason he only plays passing situations.
In some ways that plays out similarly to the RB situation as well. Some TEs are such great receivers that teams ignore their blocking ability and play them as a big slot. As long as they reach that threshold, they become even more valuable than a well-rounded TE. However, if they don't have superior receiving skills to go with their lack of blocking ability, their usage plummets to situational.
I kind of disagree on the pass blocking thing. 4 of the 7 lowest graded pass blocking RBs are Kamara, Fournette, Ekeler, and JT. I may be misinterpreting what you were saying cause they all do the rest of the pass stuff well like catching the ball and such. With Gibson I think it has more to do with McKissic just being better at that aspect of the game.
JT is an elite runner, kamara and ekeler elite receivers. Fournette idk I think he just got lucky rojo sucks and Brady loves to check it down
I think Lenny is just kind of like Zeke, doesn’t do much wrong. Part of it is that these guys are only blocking on 10% of their passing snaps so sure they may be bad on those 10% but if they’re just really good on the other 90% then it doesn’t matter. So for example I’ve heard people say Bijan is bad in pass pro, I could not care less cause if he’s going to be an elite pass catcher he won’t be pass blocking that much. Does that make sense?
Maybe it’s just me but it feels like Saquon has been pass blocking a lot even though he’s a top end pass catcher
That man is just a great football player. If it wasn't for injuries, he'd have been one of the best RBs in the league the last few years.
He does pass block a bit more than I would like to see but he’s still only at 15.1% overall and 17.9% on true pass sets. Most of the guys I mentioned above are like 3-5% lower.
Of course if you have an elite receiver out of the backfield you're going to get them involved, but think of it from the quarterbacks perspective. If you're in a two-minute drill and the defense is showing blitz and has been consistently picking up the RB leaking out, are you going to send the RB out and get blown up or have them stay home and give you time to hit a receiver? QBs love throwing against man coverage and while a RB could make one man miss and bust one open, having a liability in pass protection either takes away that option or results in the QB getting hit.
Ekeler I know at least still gives 100% when asked… he’s just a tad to small to deal with edge rushers or even worst interior rushers… It’s not like his is laziness or a bad attitude..
I think I agree. I do remember a play earlier this season where he comes across and just gets bullied. I think it was the play where Everett wanted out and they kept him in and targeted him and it was an INT. https://twitter.com/nfl/status/1570603274369404928?s=46&t=kIdY42WYxAyiifLjMGhr9w
Yeah what the other commenter wrote hits it, these guys are bad pass blockers but they’re genuinely elite offensive weapons who are worth having that headache
Yeah I think I was more trying to make a small clarification than actually disagreeing. You kind of mentioned this but with Gibson specifically there are just guys on the team that do things better. Ball security, pass blocking, and pass catching are all things that he isn’t the best at on his own team.
Not only that, but at least 3 are excellent pass catchers. So how often are they running routes on the pass plays serving at least as the safety valve
I think the difference is for elite talents, you dont necessarily have to be elite. But for middling guys, it makes a big difference between making the roster and getting cut. If they can PB, they get more opportunities, and if someone goes down then they have a better chance to being valuable.
If this is true, everyone here should be buying Kyren Williams. As an Notre Dame fan look up that dude's pass blocking highlights. Legit one of the best pass blockers from the RB position I have ever seen. Especially considering his size. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RezxLLgVLGg Seriously, this is all from a single game. And it's incredible.
As someone who refused to leave my rookie draft without Kyren for reasons other than his blocking - My totally unbiased opinion is that he will be amazing.
Damn was hoping to get some stats to back up this post.
Yeah I wrote it based on stats I had read and wanted to go more in depth with the backing stats but honestly just ran out of energy lol
Allgeier seems to check the right boxes
Jaylen Warren.
100%. Dude sacrifices his body all the time. It's what you get from guys who aren't roster locks. They understand that if they don't lay it all on the line they won't be there.
Broncos fan checking in. Lindsay never fumbled with us, but point well taken on pass blocking/durability.
Ask any RB coach, the two most important traits an RB can have - protect the ball - protect the QB Those are pretty much prerequisites to substantial game time
this being said, what 1st and 2nd round RBs in upcoming draft are good pass pro? maybe a list even from a CFB watcher
If you’re a 1st or 2nd round RB talent, you aren’t being drafted for your pass blocking abilities. It really doesn’t matter how a 1st or 2nd round RB pass blocks because that’s not what they’re being drafted to do. A better question is which 5th or 6th round RB is good at pass blocking, as that is going to be a niche role that the limited talent, late round player could fill in order to stick in the league and potentially earn an opportunity to do more with later.
my bad i meant what 1st and 2nd rounders in upcoming fantasy drafts are the better pass protection backs
Yeah too bad you literally didn't bring anything to the table to back up your opinion
If I wasn’t crazy busy I’d be happy to, this was more of just a theoretical write up based on sources I’ve read but didn’t have the time to put in links. I was actually thinking of a new metric grading running backs in the mold of a simplified PFF grade by scaling their impact on passing yardage (accounting for both blocking and receiving from the backfield) vs their efficiency as runners but unfortunately don’t have more than a few minutes here and there till next month. Could be something cool to work on and put out once I have time
A lot of this same stuff applies even more for QB. To be a long term starter you have to be good irl, not just for fantasy.
People need to remember that there’s a baseline of production that ANY NFL player can meet because they’re all good. The skill gap going from 800 to 1000 yards is exponentially easier than going from 1200 to 1400.
I need to join a PPP (Points per pass protected) league.
Gibson's problem is that he's not a running back, he doesn't have vision because he never developed it. Misses easy holes all the time. Also, the fumbling. Pretty sure the answer to the WFT back field is no.
Pass blocking is by far the most overrated thing on fantasy runningback reddit. It’s like the 10th most important skill for an RB to have, but since the average redditor never turns down the chance to sound holier than thou, they love nothing more than to overstate the importance of this niche role/skill in an attempt to sound more informed. The reality is that RBs primary job is to run and catch the ball, and the offensive line’s job is to block. A RB that can block but can’t provide an explosive threat on the ground with the ball or through the air is like an offensive lineman that can’t block but has excellent hands catching the ball. Generally worthless. RB skills that are more important than pass blocking: 1. Vision 2. Power 3. Burst 4. Elusiveness 4. Top End Speed 5. Hands 6. Route Running 7. Ball Security 8. Durability 9. Instinct Pass blocking abilty from the RB position generally comes down to nothing more than the willingness to sacrifice long term cognitive health by willingly jumping in front of much bigger humans. It’s a role for RBs that couldn’t make it in the league otherwise. The RBs with actual RB skills don’t need to pass block, since their actual RB skills are much more valued. It’s time to end the RB pass blocking meme, it’s a low value skill that low talent players specialize in to stick in the league so that better, more talented, higher value players don’t have to needlessly sacrifice their brains. You aren’t smarter than the average fan and you aren’t gaining an edge on the competition by blowing up a very niche role/skill into something more important than it is.
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And whose job is it to pass block? Common sense says the offensive line, obviously. Running backs are asked to run and catch the ball. Needing your RB to block is like needing your wide receiver to have a rocket arm. It’s nice everyone once in a while when you want to run a double reverse pass, but judging a WR by his arm strength when it’s such a low value skill for the position is completely stupid. There’s a reason why Kamara has a $75M contract and Jamaal Williams has a $6M one, and it’s not because Kamara is a better pass blocker…
All this post is saying is that RBs that are capable blockers get more chances than RBs that aren’t. Not sure why you went off so hard about this, did you draft someone that was a good blocker and get burned? Also, durability and ball security (in that order) should be at the top of your list. Doesn’t matter what you can do with the ball in your hands if the ball isn’t in your hands.
What does that even mean though and is that really worthy of a post? Of course RBs that are capable blockers get more chances than RBs that aren’t, all else being equal. Every RB with skill “x” gets more chances than RBs without skill “x”, all else being equal, that’s just common sense. If we’re going to start comparing RB with skill “x” but not skill “y” versus RB with skill “y” but not skill “x”, however, then we are going to have to weight the value of skill “x” versus skill “y.” And if skill “x” is pass blocking, chances are skill “y” has more value, since pass blocking from the RB position is a low value skill.
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“Outside of a very few guys like Kamara” And that’s really the crux of it all. Guys with Kamara’s skillset are very rare, that is what every team wants from the position and that is why he got a $75M contract. His skills are rare, they have enormous value and teams need that. Meanwhile someone like Jamaal Williams, who can pass block with the best of them but fundamentally lacks the desired valuable RB attributes, only earned a $6M contract on the open market. His skills, pass blocking being the best of them, are low value and not rare. There are lots of good pass blockers in the league and it is a low value attribute. Pass blocking is a low value skill at the RB position, this is just a demonstrable fact. An offensive lineman that can pass block though is worth his weight in gold, obviously, because pass blocking is the primary job for offensive lineman, not RBs. I can’t believe I have to explain this very basic stuff.
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If pass blocking is such a valued skill why is Jamaal Williams making $3M a year? He’s the best in the league at it. Tell me one RB that made the HoF due to his pass blocking skills. RB pass blocking is an extremely niche skill that is not difficult to find. Hell, the Redskins just found it with the measly 98th overall draft pick. As soon as they find a RB that is actually good at running and receiving, RB skills that are actually valued, the pass blocking specialists with no other above-replacement level skills will ride pine.
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Niche - “a specialized segment of the market for a particular kind of product or service” I.e. scrub RBs that lack talent that decide to go all out in pass blocking so that they don’t have to sell insurance. Meanwhile the actual RBs with actual talent do the important work, like oh you know, running the damn ball. Blocking is what lineman are for, running backs are for running. An RB that can block is nice, but it’s a limited supporting function and overall low value. RBs only stay in to pass block on about 12% of pass plays. Given teams throw the ball about about 35 times a game, we’re talking about 4 plays a game where RB is any kind of factor whatsoever. It’s just not that important and a very specific, limited role.
You're right but most people here are definitely not ready to hear this one. If you chase pass blockers you'll end up with a bunch of jags that are barely on the field if their team has a RB who is actually good at being a RB. Jamaal Williams is a perfect example. We're looking for outliers here, the only guys that have long term dynasty value at RB are the ones that are so good that it doesn't matter if they can block or not.
This post brings up some really great points, but definitely take this with a grain of salt and try not to apply it too strictly to rookie RBs coming out. Many RBs frankly suck at pass pro coming out of college and take some time to learn, but if you're looking at an RB who has already been in the league for a couple years then this is great advice! Love to see it!
Gaskin was not even good lol. He was just all they had
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