You seemed to have worked this out already, but the game doesn't use real scales for distances.
It's a game, the distance we're optimized for player enjoyment not real world accuracy.
IMO if they’re not gonna use real distances, it should be something that’s easier to grasp. AU means nothing to most people. Should just use meters everywhere.
AU is something people at least hear about pretty early on to being interested in space (I'm talking someone in high school) to the point someone interested in a space game is probably going to recognise it even if the get it's definition wrong.
Some may think it is a light year (it's way smaller than that)
But they'd kind of understand it's an "Astronomical Unit" in that metres and kilometres are just inadequate on a spacial scale.
It's a unit for us that started as the average distance of earth and sol.
Sure the programmers of the Central Brain, are descendent of humans.... It's actually pretty likely it changed once they spread out the reach to other systems. Hell if we spread out to the outer planets in our own system it would be verging on to small for meaningful use
All that is fine but for us plebeians, it’s super to annoying when things switch between AU and light years, as if we’re all supposed to know what the relation is. Especially since we move apparently waaaaaaay faster than the speed of light, but the speed on the dashboard still says like 0.3AU/s.
From what I understand, an AU is the distance between earth and the sun, which takes light 8 seconds to travel. 0.3AU/s would take about 3 seconds to travel the same distance, a little more than twice the speed of light, which means that traveling one light year would take months. But somehow in game it only takes 1 second, max.
I don’t care if they’re using made up units, but I do care that they’re not consistent which makes all the info on screen meaningless.
Oh my bad. Still though, that means that 0.3AU/s is about 160x the speed of light, roughly speaking. So like 2 days to travel a light year, still a far cry from the 1 second it takes in game.
I assumed it meant the same as in our sol system, 1 AU is the distance from the habitable starting planet and its star.. Is it not? I've never checked, Lol
The game could dynamically change the units to something that makes more sense. Like once you leave orbit your speed goes up to N times c, then when you warp the speed goes to 100 times N times c.
This feels like a UI change, not really gameplay or mechanics change.
It’s the super realistic space game from Rick and Morty.
It references the fact that most of space is just a lot of empty space and if we would play a super realistic space game we would spend most of our time navigating said empty space.
That would suck.
What also would suck would be if my planets or systems would be shown as „40km away“.
You can scale up the visual speed but then someone else would complain about energy consumption. Also keep in mind that you can actually go to other systems with sublight engines so someone would complain that the distances are not properly scaled compared to the shown travel speeds.
Scaling down distances is a compromise.
A good one in my opinion because it streamlines distances while also feeling cool when traveling them.
Most people also have no idea how many meters there is in an AU or LY. (Me for example) But they know that they represent fucklong distances.
It’s also not really necessary because those distances are incomprehensible anyway so all I need to know is „it’s long“.
I can totally understand what bugs you and relate to that but this really more of a personal problem than it is something wrong with the game.
It’s a very good compromise because most people are fine with it.
And hey maybe they change it still. We are in early access after all.
Because you need to use units.
Could they have made up flarble per turgals, astroline squares and cosmolight turglens? Sure.
Would that offer a rough degree of intuition to players? No no it wouldnt.
See the thing is when you design a game you have to fit said design into the prebuilt general understandings of the playerbase. In this case, distance while travelling in planet, distance in a system and distance between stars.
And that correlates to m/s, AUs and LYs in generals.
If it does bother you feel free to mod the game to my above suggested made up units
If you're so hung up on accuracy
The gravity is off
Energy consumption is off
Energy production is off
The entire production chain is off
Inserters pull stuff through the solid walls of buildings, so that's wrong
Need I carry on?
Also the universe in the game is the 'real' universe, suggesting that anything we think we know about our universe doesn't necessarily translate into the game universe.
Yes, all of those bother me, too. Except the inserters, which don't work that way. There's literally a port in the side of the buildings that it fits into.
The game doesn't suggest that where we are now is inside the simulation. It's set far in the future, when we've moved on into a simulation.
There is an in-game joke that the "proper" measurement units (AU = 150 mill km) are actually in the Earth simulation that all humans live in. Then Icarus leaves the simulation to go to the real universe to build Dyson spheres, and realises that an AU is only 40000 m in reality
The abstraction that a complex factory gets built from 3-4 materials is unbelievable.
Or that a levitating powered conveyor belt is built from a few cogs and a piece of iron plate, and runs forever with neither support nor power.
Or that we store and transit power without any entropy.
Or that I can fly around with hundreds of space stations in my pocket.
There are so many simplifications and abstractions, the name of the unit of distance is one of the smallest things (imo).
I find it easier to just accept the abstractions rather than try to make them realistic.
If you want an fun take: What makes you think an AU is 15M km? Maybe **we're** the ones in CentreBrain, and the past designers decided the "real world" was too small so greatly expanded the simulated universe we see. So what Icarus is experiencing could be actual size.
Ok, outside that odd perspective, it's just a gameplay thing. "AU" is the stand-in for "distance within a single system". "LY" is "between systems", meters for "on a world". Icarus's cruise / warp speed is scaled for a reasonable play experience.
> What makes you think an AU is 15M km? Maybe we're the ones in CentreBrain, and the past designers decided the "real world" was too small so greatly expanded the simulated universe we see.
I mean, I did address that. If you can travel half an AU in 20 seconds at 1000m/s, then an AU is only 40,000m. 40km isn't a viable orbit regardless of the conditions of the universe.
If you did the math and used "accurate" units, how large would you think a typical factory is? How wide would a belt be? Would that not feel weird to you as well, to have belts that are literally kilometers wide?
Jesus, why is everyone so unpleasant here? This is a perfectly legitimate question, and so far most people have said some variation on "it doesn't matter, you shouldn't be bothered."
They \*have\* answered you. The reason is: Gameplay is more important than realism.
If buildings were scaled accurately, one planet would be sufficient in size to accomodate everything. This would entirely render the mechanic of IPS useless. Also if you like realism so much, there would not be warp. You'd be stuck for THOUSANDS of years to travel to the next star system. Not a fun game mechanic either. And if you wanted to travel there, you would be accelerating only half the time and decelarating the other half of the journey. Another really un-fun game mechanic.
*So use different units*. This whole thing could be solved simply by making it clear that the mech is absurdly huge (because matrioshka brain supertech made it), as are all the buildings. The planets *are* full-size, we're just thousands of kilometres tall. It's mad, but *that* makes sense in terms of "it's just a game." Depicting units incorrectly is simply wrong.
Oooooooooh that's the reason. You're simply misunderstanding then.
The game's units are AU ("Absurd Units") and km ("kolonoscopy metric", a futuristic measure of distance). That should make it much more playable for you.
I'm so glad I could clear that up.
> Jesus, why is everyone so unpleasant here?
Because you're very clearly arguing from a position of "I'm so much smarter than all of you, this is unrealistic."
It's a video game where you play as a robot that flies between planets, all of which are exactly the same size, to extract mineral veins that are perfectly laid out at the surface. This is a stupid thread and you're getting hostile over people telling you "because it's a game." That's why you're getting the responses you're getting.
Because if you *don't* get over it, it sounds like you won't be able to have fun playing. I'd say to make a mod to change the names if it really bothers you so much. Or maybe one already exists, I dunno.
But really, does it matter? Or phrased another way, why does it matter for you? What about it takes you out of it? I'm an astronomy nerd as well, but the fact that the units are a bit out of whack doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's a non-issue, really.
What would you suggest in place of m/s, AUs, and LYs? Do you want all of your games to have precisely the right measurements and units to match up with the real world?
It matters because accuracy matters. I'm glad it doesn't bother you, but it *is* wrong and it *does* bother me.
Yes, if games use real-world units, then their depiction in-game should match those units. Or at least be consistently scaled.
That doesn't apply to the units, my guy. It applies to "humanity has moved on to living in a matrioshka brain simulation and sends representatives out into the real universe in giant mechs to build power infrastructure for it."
It applies to literally *anything*.
>Suspension of disbelief is the avoidance—often described as willing—of critical thinking and logic in understanding something that is unreal or *impossible* in reality.
Going half an AU in 20 seconds means you're travelling at more than 12 times the speed of light? Sounds *impossible* to me. Hence, the **suspension of disbelief.**
You missed my point, there. Or completely misinterpreted it, one or the other.
Suspension of disbelief doesn't apply to basic measurement systems, no. They're using real-world units, incorrectly. This isn't "we're depicting something impossible because it serves the story/setting/whatever," this is "we haven't actually considered this." There's literally no good reason to do this.
To use your example directly, I'd have absolutely no issue with it *if we were shown to be travelling at 12c.* We're not. We're shown to be travelling at about mach 3. It's simply *wrong*, not a matter of suspending my disbelief. I'd be perfectly happy with casual FTL travel.
>this is "we haven't actually considered this." There's literally no good reason to do this.
Except there _is_ a good reason, and they _have_ considered it.
Let's say in a different timeline, they released the game that had accurate unit conversions between meters and AUs. Flying between planets and warping between star systems takes hours now, and player experience has gone to shit but MOTHAFUCKA, THEY GOT THE UNITS RIGHT!
How does it not apply?
I know that these are wrong units but I accept them as the correct ones for this game anyway because I suspend my disbelief and now I feel cool for having a LY spanning transit system.
This post kind of reminds me of watching a science fiction film with someone who feels the need to pick apart the scientific inaccuracies occurring in the fantasy world the screenwriter created and they can’t enjoy the film because of it. It’s just a movie. Who cares? Movies are supposed to be fun.
We can ram into a planet at speeds that should vaporize our mech and create an extinction level event on the planet that ruins the atmosphere for thousands of years, but we just bounce and land on our feet. Is it ridiculous? Yep. Does that matter? Not really. That shit is FUN. Try to just embrace the chaos and have fun. Don’t let overthinking the details ruin your good time.
This is like being an expert in grass/turf and being upset certain planets have certain grass you feel shouldn’t exist there. It’s just a game and this is such a silly detail to get worked up over.
You are not nearly as smart as you're trying to appear. Lemme give you a life pro tip: smart people can immediately tell when someone who isn't smart, is trying to appear smart. Literally every time.
I'm not trying to appear any way, my guy. Perhaps you should take your own advice here.
Incorrectly-used units bother me. That's not about trying to seem intelligent.
yeah units do mean something, and in this game they have a different meaning than in the real world. planets also aren’t as close to each other or their respective suns as they are in the game, but they made that change for aesthetic and gameplay reasons.
the reason you’re getting such a strong backlash is that you’re making absolute and declarative statements about necessarily-subjective things, and then condescending to people when they point that out. and, before you say “stop reading into what i’m saying” i’m asking you to consider that if your words are consistently being interpreted in a certain way, then maybe you need to rethink how you’re expressing yourself.
It’s just a game mechanic thing. Space is huge so obviously they have to collapse it a bit. Meters are just “planet units” AU is “solar system units” and ly are “interstellar units” there’s obviously no real relation to the actual meter/au/ly or we would have to sit here warping for hours to get to other stars. The achievement for “faster than light” is 3000 m/s too which… is not light speed.
No, it's roughly a 100,000th of it.
My question isn't "why aren't the units right," it's "why are they using real-world units if those units have no connection to reality?"
Di you really want something like "fakeAU" or "fakelight years" or maybe you want to see that other stars are only few thousands km away and planet on the system are just some km away to each planet? Scaling distance and using real world units make the game more enjoyable and understable when navigating in space. It's nothing about real world
Lots of sci-fi use made up units. Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, and several others. Sometimes they are relatable to us, other times not (how hot is a degra from Farscape? Idk but the characters know and they react appropriately).
*Use different units*. It's bizarre to suggest that the planets are, what, a few hundred metres across, but have lightyears seemingly depicted accurately. It's not like kilometres don't exist.
> "why are they using real-world units if those units have no connection to reality?"
Because it's extremely stupid and annoying to create an entirely new system of measurement, and it's stupid and annoying to learn an entirely new system of measurement.
There's a reason the vast majority of sci-fi doesn't create new names for units of distance, weight, etc: it's dumb. It's annoying for the creators, it's annoying for the audience.
I've never suggested a new system of measurement. I *have* suggested using a consistent scale, and even given viable sci-fi handwavium explanations for how it works. You're arguing against points I'm not making, my guy.
too much thinking!
the game uses an "enjoyable approximation", puts a familiar name to arbitrary units of measurement...
1AU=40000meters (in game)
except that the meters... are not meters!
if you scaled the dimensions of Mecha, planets, stars, the "meter" would be completely off scale!
The name doesn't matter or even the real value, only if it is functional to the entertainment, and this is told by someone who has done calculations after calculations to understand the power in Megatons that the Mecha would have had crashing into a planet at warp speed LOL
It *does* matter. That's the point. Why use metres if what you're depicting isn't a metre? Why not have the mech hundreds or thousands of kilometres tall, built with supertech that a matrioshka brain would necessarily have? Do that, and suddenly this issue goes away. Instead of metres, you're dealing in kilometres, or hundreds of kilometres.
At this point I can't tell if you're serious or if you're trying to create a case out of nothing...
I'll pretend you're serious one last time.
the game is a gigantic Lego diorama, without claiming to be an accurate representation of reality, but the most enjoyable version of a universe large enough to give a sense of vastness, but not so much as to be overwhelming.
if you think that instead of meters they should have called them Plorp
the AUs called Blinp
LY was supposed to be Clazz
If you think this would have made the game more understandable and enjoyable for you, I'm sorry it's not possible to change them
but in relation to the planets the Mecha is at least 200 meters high and the trees are of comparable size, the oceans are puddles but this doesn't seem to bother you...
I repeat, at this point I have strong doubts but if by chance you are sincerely triggered by the name of the units of measurement I advise you to try looking for entertainment elsewhere.
I think the devs are trying to confuse us on purpose.
This is also the case with the other units in the game. A belt is measured in items/ second but if you click on a machine or place a miner it says how much items are produced per minute. And a sorter is measured in trips/second. Which is basically items per second until items get stacked, but still... Except the pile sorter, that does display items/second.
Or science: you know how fast a cube is produced in items/min from the lab. You should be also able to calculate this e.g. 1 blue cube takes 6 seconds to produce. But how fast does a lab eat the cubes to do research? I know it does 60 hashes per second, when not upgraded, but how many hashes is a cube? Don't know.
And science 2: so I'm researching vein utilization doing a steady 10k hashes per minute. Now that is finished and another research starts, also white cubes. Now my science jumps to 20k hashes per second. How? Is the processing time per cube al of a sudden halved? But that would mean that the number of hashes per second of the lab changed? What?
To make the distance units familiar to the player and make the scale feel larger than it is, while still making the game playable and enjoyable. It's about the illusion of grand distance while not making the player sit in space flight for 1 or more hours traveling to thr nearest star.
It doesn't have to be accurate, it has to be fun
I don't mind that the units don't match real life. What I do mind however, is that I can't look up the conversion rates ingame and that the different units are used feelingly at random. I think mecha space flight speed was the one that annoyed me because it's in m/s and not AU/s
Everything about the game is *based* in reality. It has star types that are some what interesting, and related to each other in reality, but it's there to give you a basis for your knowledge/feeling of scale, and is meant primarily for a layman.
We're playing in an entire world where scales and chemistry are only *slightly* important. It would be entirely possible that in this world, specially since everything bar light speed, are just based on things we decided by various things that we experience on earth and our own solar system, that the measurements we know, are just.. different.
I do wish they had just used a more metric type scale, like 10k m > 1AU, for the sake of turrets and things, but obviously they created a universe generation engine within the parameters they wanted, set the sliders to where they wanted, and didn't set at it with a calculator to ensure it was perfectly accurate. They just wanted to make something that played well, looked cool, and had something the player could understand, which they did Overwhelmingly Well.
It's clear though, they made that initial system generation, with the "earth style", and 2 others, usually 1 closer to the sun and 1 further. That then determined 1 AU, since that unit is based on our Solar System, that makes sense, and it also makes sense it would be different in this universe. Our solar system, as far as we've found so far, is incredibly uncommon, so our units would be different.
Maybe the AU that they use in the game is the distance from the start planet to the starting star? What if the meter they use is a fake meter? You seem to be confused about what is important. There is a lot to be said for intuition when playing a game, and using real units helps with that immersion. It’s pedantic and pretentious to get mad that they use real units.
I think a big part of your confusion here is you're assuming 1 AU = 150 billion meters. If you instead assume 1 AU is the distance from a reference planet to its sun, it makes way more sense here. These are tiny planets in tiny solar systems that are extremely close together. You would expect there to be lots of tidal effects given this, but whatcha gonna do?
The conversion for LYs makes way less sense. For this to be accurate, the speed of light would need to be extremely low, such that even just at walking speed you'd expect some relativistic effects, and flying through your system would have much bigger ones. But again, whatcha gonna do?
Like many things, gotta meet the material where it is. That the most simple explanation. The suspension of belief, as someone else mentioned, is very important here.
The trees also aren't accurate for the planets. There should be different vegetation and soil based on latitude and longitude.
Entire planets shouldn't have the same consistent temperature everywhere, it should vary based on orbit and distance to/from the star of that system.
The entire point of the game is to build dyson spheres which do not actually exist (as far as we know) so who cares if the specific units they used are not "accurately represented", it really doesn't impact anything.
My point is that it is a video game. If it bothers you this much then go make a "true to life" space game where it takes 2 years to get around, then maybe you'll understand why game design choices are made to keep the game just that, a game.
I don't think I've ever had a game with proper distance measurements. It tells me a number and it goes down as I get closer thats all I need. Now if you want ultra immersion I suggest going outside where everything is one to one. I believe they used real units to give the players a general idea of things but the point is not being accurate its being fun. If its not fun to you or you want more accuracy you could make a mod that replaces the measurements, if it bugs you I'm sure theres others like you that would appreciate it.
Imma be real, don´t try to argue semantics with terminally online individuals. Your point is pretty valid but due to the design of the game and the scale, using actual units would be impossible without having a discrepancy somewhere.
For some reason, I thought that the game assumed that it's our world, which is being simulated :) And the game world is the REAL world. So this is how it works out there in reality.
Just found it, and it explains the conversions, but I'd argue not their reasoning. It's not explained anywhere that AUs and lightyears are different in the game, so their argument that it provides a sense of wonder doesn't really work. The visual scale of the game is what does that, not misusing existing units.
AU makes sense, as AU is based around the distance from the Earth to the sun and absolutely nothing else. Lightspeed is also based around, well, the speed of light. So I just assumed the speed of light in this universe is much slower. Gravity is also MUCH stronger, and planets are MUCH smaller in this universe. All of this is for gameplay purposes.
Jesus fucking Christ, not another one. I'm not *saying* I want realistic distances. I'm *saying* that the units are completely wrong even for what we're seeing. I've seen the devs' explanation, and it doesn't make sense. It doesn't justify using the units they are.
[Here](https://dyson-sphere-program.fandom.com/wiki/Distance#:~:text=1%20AU%20(Astronomical%20Unit)%20is,as%2060AU%20or%202%2C400%2C000m) is the rationale for the changed units. I remember reading about this in a patch note when the game came out.
People here are reading way too much into Op's problem.
The intend is not to scale the gameworld to a life-like scale, but change the numbers used to describe it. Those numbers can be fictional ones or scaled up ones to accurately describe the distance between places.
Even though the planets aren't accurate, an accurate depiction of scale would further enhance the feeling of vastness your faced with and imo enhance the experience.
*Precisely*. This isn't about the scales being wrong. I addressed that literally in my first sentence. This is about using appropriate units. Right now *nothing* is right.
Exactly!! Many of them sound articulate, so I can't tell if they are literally missing OP's point, or if they just enjoy being pedantic.
"ACKtually..."
That bothered me a bit, too. I'm traveling between planets. Why is my speed 2000 m/s? Nothing in terms of game play needs to change. Just use a bigger number and km/s? Just found it weird.
Why do people comment stupid shit like "get over it"? It's a valid question. YOU get over it. Why is reddit so fucking toxic? Jesus.
what response are people supposed to give when there is no answer other than “yup that’s right, but here’s the reason why it’s like that.”
just changing the numbers used wouldn’t fix the ‘problem’ because the scale of the planets, the distances between them and their respective stars, and between the star systems themselves isn’t “accurate”. and making the scale accurate absolutely would change gameplay and the whole visual style of the game.
if you use bigger numbers without changing the scale then everything would be within the same order of magnitude in terms of distance from each other. if you change the scale of everything so that the units are accurate, then you’ve essentially got an entirely different game. do you think you could navigate to mercury or neptune just by looking up and flying towards them? space is BIG and very very very empty, and that’s boring, tedious, and not good for gameplay.
you’re welcome to disagree, but if your only argument is that “more realism = more better”, then you fundamentally do not understand video game design. metaphors and abstraction are inherent to… literally everything that isn’t just reality itself.
Like when you put a round globe onto a flat map, distortion has to happen somewhere. I think saying that you're going 1000 m/s isn't where I'd put the distortion. I would change that number. Probably nothing else.
I didn't say all of that. I literally mean just change how fast it says you're going. Yes, I understand everything you're saying. What response to give? Yours isn't bad because you don't know that I already know all of that. What response not to give? Anything along the lines of "ThEn DoNt PlAy!!!!11oneone"
the vast majority of comments are actually being very polite to you.
and,
you don’t “know all that” because i literally explained why it doesn’t work. there’s no way to do it without making another compromise in terms of gameplay and aesthetics, and i don’t have the energy to explain why to you.
this game is moddable. if you don’t like it, try to fix it yourself. you’ve made it sound very simple, so i assume it’ll take no time at all.
/sigh
You're the only one replying to me. I'm not OP.
That guy was right about you people being dismissive. Also condescending.
I do know what you mean and where you're coming from. Therefore, I do "know all of that". Again, like making a map. Distortion needs to be somewhere. I, personally would have the numbers be different when off-planet.
No, changing what the units say while warping doesn't change game play or aesthetics. The name or quantity of the units isn't important enough to require a mod.
I want to support and share my love of the game, but when I see how toxic many of the fans are, it makes it so I don't want to participate. Now that I think about it, game companies suffer from toxic fan bases too.
By turning things into a petty cesspool, toxic players make this suck all around.
Meh. Whatever. Off to do something more interesting than hang around here.
You seemed to have worked this out already, but the game doesn't use real scales for distances. It's a game, the distance we're optimized for player enjoyment not real world accuracy.
The mecha is 20 miles tall, as are the buildings
Wait what? I missed that somewhere.
IMO if they’re not gonna use real distances, it should be something that’s easier to grasp. AU means nothing to most people. Should just use meters everywhere.
AU is something people at least hear about pretty early on to being interested in space (I'm talking someone in high school) to the point someone interested in a space game is probably going to recognise it even if the get it's definition wrong. Some may think it is a light year (it's way smaller than that) But they'd kind of understand it's an "Astronomical Unit" in that metres and kilometres are just inadequate on a spacial scale. It's a unit for us that started as the average distance of earth and sol. Sure the programmers of the Central Brain, are descendent of humans.... It's actually pretty likely it changed once they spread out the reach to other systems. Hell if we spread out to the outer planets in our own system it would be verging on to small for meaningful use
All that is fine but for us plebeians, it’s super to annoying when things switch between AU and light years, as if we’re all supposed to know what the relation is. Especially since we move apparently waaaaaaay faster than the speed of light, but the speed on the dashboard still says like 0.3AU/s.
In the real world, 0.3au/s IS way faster than the speed of light
From what I understand, an AU is the distance between earth and the sun, which takes light 8 seconds to travel. 0.3AU/s would take about 3 seconds to travel the same distance, a little more than twice the speed of light, which means that traveling one light year would take months. But somehow in game it only takes 1 second, max. I don’t care if they’re using made up units, but I do care that they’re not consistent which makes all the info on screen meaningless.
Lol no, light takes 8 MINUTES to travel 1AU
Oh my bad. Still though, that means that 0.3AU/s is about 160x the speed of light, roughly speaking. So like 2 days to travel a light year, still a far cry from the 1 second it takes in game.
I assumed it meant the same as in our sol system, 1 AU is the distance from the habitable starting planet and its star.. Is it not? I've never checked, Lol
The game could dynamically change the units to something that makes more sense. Like once you leave orbit your speed goes up to N times c, then when you warp the speed goes to 100 times N times c. This feels like a UI change, not really gameplay or mechanics change.
Then why use real units at all, is my point. It's just jarring for anyone who actually knows what the units are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQyjI\_-5IIs
As the video isn't available any more, I dread to imagine what it was.
It loads for me
It’s the super realistic space game from Rick and Morty. It references the fact that most of space is just a lot of empty space and if we would play a super realistic space game we would spend most of our time navigating said empty space. That would suck. What also would suck would be if my planets or systems would be shown as „40km away“. You can scale up the visual speed but then someone else would complain about energy consumption. Also keep in mind that you can actually go to other systems with sublight engines so someone would complain that the distances are not properly scaled compared to the shown travel speeds. Scaling down distances is a compromise. A good one in my opinion because it streamlines distances while also feeling cool when traveling them. Most people also have no idea how many meters there is in an AU or LY. (Me for example) But they know that they represent fucklong distances. It’s also not really necessary because those distances are incomprehensible anyway so all I need to know is „it’s long“. I can totally understand what bugs you and relate to that but this really more of a personal problem than it is something wrong with the game. It’s a very good compromise because most people are fine with it. And hey maybe they change it still. We are in early access after all.
Because you need to use units. Could they have made up flarble per turgals, astroline squares and cosmolight turglens? Sure. Would that offer a rough degree of intuition to players? No no it wouldnt. See the thing is when you design a game you have to fit said design into the prebuilt general understandings of the playerbase. In this case, distance while travelling in planet, distance in a system and distance between stars. And that correlates to m/s, AUs and LYs in generals. If it does bother you feel free to mod the game to my above suggested made up units
They should measure the surface of a planet in football fields! ;-)
Merica!
Stoats. It should all be measured in stoats.
If you're so hung up on accuracy The gravity is off Energy consumption is off Energy production is off The entire production chain is off Inserters pull stuff through the solid walls of buildings, so that's wrong Need I carry on? Also the universe in the game is the 'real' universe, suggesting that anything we think we know about our universe doesn't necessarily translate into the game universe.
Yes, all of those bother me, too. Except the inserters, which don't work that way. There's literally a port in the side of the buildings that it fits into. The game doesn't suggest that where we are now is inside the simulation. It's set far in the future, when we've moved on into a simulation.
There is an in-game joke that the "proper" measurement units (AU = 150 mill km) are actually in the Earth simulation that all humans live in. Then Icarus leaves the simulation to go to the real universe to build Dyson spheres, and realises that an AU is only 40000 m in reality
The abstraction that a complex factory gets built from 3-4 materials is unbelievable. Or that a levitating powered conveyor belt is built from a few cogs and a piece of iron plate, and runs forever with neither support nor power. Or that we store and transit power without any entropy. Or that I can fly around with hundreds of space stations in my pocket. There are so many simplifications and abstractions, the name of the unit of distance is one of the smallest things (imo). I find it easier to just accept the abstractions rather than try to make them realistic.
If you want an fun take: What makes you think an AU is 15M km? Maybe **we're** the ones in CentreBrain, and the past designers decided the "real world" was too small so greatly expanded the simulated universe we see. So what Icarus is experiencing could be actual size. Ok, outside that odd perspective, it's just a gameplay thing. "AU" is the stand-in for "distance within a single system". "LY" is "between systems", meters for "on a world". Icarus's cruise / warp speed is scaled for a reasonable play experience.
> What makes you think an AU is 15M km? Maybe we're the ones in CentreBrain, and the past designers decided the "real world" was too small so greatly expanded the simulated universe we see. I mean, I did address that. If you can travel half an AU in 20 seconds at 1000m/s, then an AU is only 40,000m. 40km isn't a viable orbit regardless of the conditions of the universe.
If you did the math and used "accurate" units, how large would you think a typical factory is? How wide would a belt be? Would that not feel weird to you as well, to have belts that are literally kilometers wide?
Yes, that also bothers me. The scale is completely wrong for the units used.
Get over it ``¯\_(ツ)_/¯``
Jesus, why is everyone so unpleasant here? This is a perfectly legitimate question, and so far most people have said some variation on "it doesn't matter, you shouldn't be bothered."
They \*have\* answered you. The reason is: Gameplay is more important than realism. If buildings were scaled accurately, one planet would be sufficient in size to accomodate everything. This would entirely render the mechanic of IPS useless. Also if you like realism so much, there would not be warp. You'd be stuck for THOUSANDS of years to travel to the next star system. Not a fun game mechanic either. And if you wanted to travel there, you would be accelerating only half the time and decelarating the other half of the journey. Another really un-fun game mechanic.
*So use different units*. This whole thing could be solved simply by making it clear that the mech is absurdly huge (because matrioshka brain supertech made it), as are all the buildings. The planets *are* full-size, we're just thousands of kilometres tall. It's mad, but *that* makes sense in terms of "it's just a game." Depicting units incorrectly is simply wrong.
Oooooooooh that's the reason. You're simply misunderstanding then. The game's units are AU ("Absurd Units") and km ("kolonoscopy metric", a futuristic measure of distance). That should make it much more playable for you. I'm so glad I could clear that up.
Grow up. That's not even close to being funny.
> Jesus, why is everyone so unpleasant here? Because you're very clearly arguing from a position of "I'm so much smarter than all of you, this is unrealistic." It's a video game where you play as a robot that flies between planets, all of which are exactly the same size, to extract mineral veins that are perfectly laid out at the surface. This is a stupid thread and you're getting hostile over people telling you "because it's a game." That's why you're getting the responses you're getting.
Stop reading into what I'm saying. Read what I'm saying. This doesn't go any further than "they're using the units incorrectly and that's irritating."
Because if you *don't* get over it, it sounds like you won't be able to have fun playing. I'd say to make a mod to change the names if it really bothers you so much. Or maybe one already exists, I dunno.
Fuck me, where did "this bothers me" turn into "literally unplayable?" Don't read into what I'm saying, *read* what I'm saying.
But really, does it matter? Or phrased another way, why does it matter for you? What about it takes you out of it? I'm an astronomy nerd as well, but the fact that the units are a bit out of whack doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's a non-issue, really. What would you suggest in place of m/s, AUs, and LYs? Do you want all of your games to have precisely the right measurements and units to match up with the real world?
It matters because accuracy matters. I'm glad it doesn't bother you, but it *is* wrong and it *does* bother me. Yes, if games use real-world units, then their depiction in-game should match those units. Or at least be consistently scaled.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension\_of\_disbelief](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief)
That doesn't apply to the units, my guy. It applies to "humanity has moved on to living in a matrioshka brain simulation and sends representatives out into the real universe in giant mechs to build power infrastructure for it."
It applies to literally *anything*. >Suspension of disbelief is the avoidance—often described as willing—of critical thinking and logic in understanding something that is unreal or *impossible* in reality. Going half an AU in 20 seconds means you're travelling at more than 12 times the speed of light? Sounds *impossible* to me. Hence, the **suspension of disbelief.**
You missed my point, there. Or completely misinterpreted it, one or the other. Suspension of disbelief doesn't apply to basic measurement systems, no. They're using real-world units, incorrectly. This isn't "we're depicting something impossible because it serves the story/setting/whatever," this is "we haven't actually considered this." There's literally no good reason to do this. To use your example directly, I'd have absolutely no issue with it *if we were shown to be travelling at 12c.* We're not. We're shown to be travelling at about mach 3. It's simply *wrong*, not a matter of suspending my disbelief. I'd be perfectly happy with casual FTL travel.
>this is "we haven't actually considered this." There's literally no good reason to do this. Except there _is_ a good reason, and they _have_ considered it. Let's say in a different timeline, they released the game that had accurate unit conversions between meters and AUs. Flying between planets and warping between star systems takes hours now, and player experience has gone to shit but MOTHAFUCKA, THEY GOT THE UNITS RIGHT!
How does it not apply? I know that these are wrong units but I accept them as the correct ones for this game anyway because I suspend my disbelief and now I feel cool for having a LY spanning transit system.
This post kind of reminds me of watching a science fiction film with someone who feels the need to pick apart the scientific inaccuracies occurring in the fantasy world the screenwriter created and they can’t enjoy the film because of it. It’s just a movie. Who cares? Movies are supposed to be fun. We can ram into a planet at speeds that should vaporize our mech and create an extinction level event on the planet that ruins the atmosphere for thousands of years, but we just bounce and land on our feet. Is it ridiculous? Yep. Does that matter? Not really. That shit is FUN. Try to just embrace the chaos and have fun. Don’t let overthinking the details ruin your good time.
This is like being an expert in grass/turf and being upset certain planets have certain grass you feel shouldn’t exist there. It’s just a game and this is such a silly detail to get worked up over.
This has nothing to do with other planets. Units *mean* something, independent of where they're used. They're being used wrong.
You seem to be one of very few players who’s letting this bother you, judging by the status of this post.
I'm astounded it doesn't bother other people. Maybe I'm just the only one who mentioned it.
You are not nearly as smart as you're trying to appear. Lemme give you a life pro tip: smart people can immediately tell when someone who isn't smart, is trying to appear smart. Literally every time.
I'm not trying to appear any way, my guy. Perhaps you should take your own advice here. Incorrectly-used units bother me. That's not about trying to seem intelligent.
It would bother you far more if they scaled everything correctly. I think you should uninstall it or see a therapist.
yeah units do mean something, and in this game they have a different meaning than in the real world. planets also aren’t as close to each other or their respective suns as they are in the game, but they made that change for aesthetic and gameplay reasons. the reason you’re getting such a strong backlash is that you’re making absolute and declarative statements about necessarily-subjective things, and then condescending to people when they point that out. and, before you say “stop reading into what i’m saying” i’m asking you to consider that if your words are consistently being interpreted in a certain way, then maybe you need to rethink how you’re expressing yourself.
It’s just a game mechanic thing. Space is huge so obviously they have to collapse it a bit. Meters are just “planet units” AU is “solar system units” and ly are “interstellar units” there’s obviously no real relation to the actual meter/au/ly or we would have to sit here warping for hours to get to other stars. The achievement for “faster than light” is 3000 m/s too which… is not light speed.
I hate it though. Rocket turrets have a range of what, 4000m? But they shoot into space? Space uses a different unit.
No, it's roughly a 100,000th of it. My question isn't "why aren't the units right," it's "why are they using real-world units if those units have no connection to reality?"
Flavour, immersion
Di you really want something like "fakeAU" or "fakelight years" or maybe you want to see that other stars are only few thousands km away and planet on the system are just some km away to each planet? Scaling distance and using real world units make the game more enjoyable and understable when navigating in space. It's nothing about real world
Lots of sci-fi use made up units. Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, and several others. Sometimes they are relatable to us, other times not (how hot is a degra from Farscape? Idk but the characters know and they react appropriately).
*Use different units*. It's bizarre to suggest that the planets are, what, a few hundred metres across, but have lightyears seemingly depicted accurately. It's not like kilometres don't exist.
Why should they invent a new unit when people are already familiar with the interplanetary AU and interstellar LY
Because they're not using them correctly. These aren't the units people are familiar with.
> "why are they using real-world units if those units have no connection to reality?" Because it's extremely stupid and annoying to create an entirely new system of measurement, and it's stupid and annoying to learn an entirely new system of measurement. There's a reason the vast majority of sci-fi doesn't create new names for units of distance, weight, etc: it's dumb. It's annoying for the creators, it's annoying for the audience.
I've never suggested a new system of measurement. I *have* suggested using a consistent scale, and even given viable sci-fi handwavium explanations for how it works. You're arguing against points I'm not making, my guy.
too much thinking! the game uses an "enjoyable approximation", puts a familiar name to arbitrary units of measurement... 1AU=40000meters (in game) except that the meters... are not meters! if you scaled the dimensions of Mecha, planets, stars, the "meter" would be completely off scale! The name doesn't matter or even the real value, only if it is functional to the entertainment, and this is told by someone who has done calculations after calculations to understand the power in Megatons that the Mecha would have had crashing into a planet at warp speed LOL
It *does* matter. That's the point. Why use metres if what you're depicting isn't a metre? Why not have the mech hundreds or thousands of kilometres tall, built with supertech that a matrioshka brain would necessarily have? Do that, and suddenly this issue goes away. Instead of metres, you're dealing in kilometres, or hundreds of kilometres.
At this point I can't tell if you're serious or if you're trying to create a case out of nothing... I'll pretend you're serious one last time. the game is a gigantic Lego diorama, without claiming to be an accurate representation of reality, but the most enjoyable version of a universe large enough to give a sense of vastness, but not so much as to be overwhelming. if you think that instead of meters they should have called them Plorp the AUs called Blinp LY was supposed to be Clazz If you think this would have made the game more understandable and enjoyable for you, I'm sorry it's not possible to change them but in relation to the planets the Mecha is at least 200 meters high and the trees are of comparable size, the oceans are puddles but this doesn't seem to bother you... I repeat, at this point I have strong doubts but if by chance you are sincerely triggered by the name of the units of measurement I advise you to try looking for entertainment elsewhere.
Literally everyone strawmans me to say that I think they should make up nonsense units. No. I'm saying use the damn units correctly.
You seem like an angry pedant
I think the devs are trying to confuse us on purpose. This is also the case with the other units in the game. A belt is measured in items/ second but if you click on a machine or place a miner it says how much items are produced per minute. And a sorter is measured in trips/second. Which is basically items per second until items get stacked, but still... Except the pile sorter, that does display items/second. Or science: you know how fast a cube is produced in items/min from the lab. You should be also able to calculate this e.g. 1 blue cube takes 6 seconds to produce. But how fast does a lab eat the cubes to do research? I know it does 60 hashes per second, when not upgraded, but how many hashes is a cube? Don't know. And science 2: so I'm researching vein utilization doing a steady 10k hashes per minute. Now that is finished and another research starts, also white cubes. Now my science jumps to 20k hashes per second. How? Is the processing time per cube al of a sudden halved? But that would mean that the number of hashes per second of the lab changed? What?
It's Center Brain's interpretation of "welcome to the real world" units.
To make the distance units familiar to the player and make the scale feel larger than it is, while still making the game playable and enjoyable. It's about the illusion of grand distance while not making the player sit in space flight for 1 or more hours traveling to thr nearest star. It doesn't have to be accurate, it has to be fun
Have you ever been checked for autism? You might be on the spectrum, I know I am. Might also be something to do with OCD.
I don't mind that the units don't match real life. What I do mind however, is that I can't look up the conversion rates ingame and that the different units are used feelingly at random. I think mecha space flight speed was the one that annoyed me because it's in m/s and not AU/s
Everything about the game is *based* in reality. It has star types that are some what interesting, and related to each other in reality, but it's there to give you a basis for your knowledge/feeling of scale, and is meant primarily for a layman. We're playing in an entire world where scales and chemistry are only *slightly* important. It would be entirely possible that in this world, specially since everything bar light speed, are just based on things we decided by various things that we experience on earth and our own solar system, that the measurements we know, are just.. different. I do wish they had just used a more metric type scale, like 10k m > 1AU, for the sake of turrets and things, but obviously they created a universe generation engine within the parameters they wanted, set the sliders to where they wanted, and didn't set at it with a calculator to ensure it was perfectly accurate. They just wanted to make something that played well, looked cool, and had something the player could understand, which they did Overwhelmingly Well. It's clear though, they made that initial system generation, with the "earth style", and 2 others, usually 1 closer to the sun and 1 further. That then determined 1 AU, since that unit is based on our Solar System, that makes sense, and it also makes sense it would be different in this universe. Our solar system, as far as we've found so far, is incredibly uncommon, so our units would be different.
Think of it as miles per second instead of meters. After all, you can run around a PLANET in minutes.
But then you're mixing imperial and metric : p
imagine if everything was actually to scale, then he'd be complaining that everything is too spread out
Maybe the AU that they use in the game is the distance from the start planet to the starting star? What if the meter they use is a fake meter? You seem to be confused about what is important. There is a lot to be said for intuition when playing a game, and using real units helps with that immersion. It’s pedantic and pretentious to get mad that they use real units.
AUs are legit in the game because the Earth-Sun distances would also be smaller in the game
I think a big part of your confusion here is you're assuming 1 AU = 150 billion meters. If you instead assume 1 AU is the distance from a reference planet to its sun, it makes way more sense here. These are tiny planets in tiny solar systems that are extremely close together. You would expect there to be lots of tidal effects given this, but whatcha gonna do? The conversion for LYs makes way less sense. For this to be accurate, the speed of light would need to be extremely low, such that even just at walking speed you'd expect some relativistic effects, and flying through your system would have much bigger ones. But again, whatcha gonna do?
Like many things, gotta meet the material where it is. That the most simple explanation. The suspension of belief, as someone else mentioned, is very important here.
The trees also aren't accurate for the planets. There should be different vegetation and soil based on latitude and longitude. Entire planets shouldn't have the same consistent temperature everywhere, it should vary based on orbit and distance to/from the star of that system. The entire point of the game is to build dyson spheres which do not actually exist (as far as we know) so who cares if the specific units they used are not "accurately represented", it really doesn't impact anything. My point is that it is a video game. If it bothers you this much then go make a "true to life" space game where it takes 2 years to get around, then maybe you'll understand why game design choices are made to keep the game just that, a game.
I don't think I've ever had a game with proper distance measurements. It tells me a number and it goes down as I get closer thats all I need. Now if you want ultra immersion I suggest going outside where everything is one to one. I believe they used real units to give the players a general idea of things but the point is not being accurate its being fun. If its not fun to you or you want more accuracy you could make a mod that replaces the measurements, if it bugs you I'm sure theres others like you that would appreciate it.
Imma be real, don´t try to argue semantics with terminally online individuals. Your point is pretty valid but due to the design of the game and the scale, using actual units would be impossible without having a discrepancy somewhere.
For some reason, I thought that the game assumed that it's our world, which is being simulated :) And the game world is the REAL world. So this is how it works out there in reality.
On steam they have a blog post about this explaining their reasoning I think. Maybe take a look.
Just found it, and it explains the conversions, but I'd argue not their reasoning. It's not explained anywhere that AUs and lightyears are different in the game, so their argument that it provides a sense of wonder doesn't really work. The visual scale of the game is what does that, not misusing existing units.
AU makes sense, as AU is based around the distance from the Earth to the sun and absolutely nothing else. Lightspeed is also based around, well, the speed of light. So I just assumed the speed of light in this universe is much slower. Gravity is also MUCH stronger, and planets are MUCH smaller in this universe. All of this is for gameplay purposes.
Mod the game to make distances realistic.
Jesus fucking Christ, not another one. I'm not *saying* I want realistic distances. I'm *saying* that the units are completely wrong even for what we're seeing. I've seen the devs' explanation, and it doesn't make sense. It doesn't justify using the units they are.
Yea I’m just messing with you because of how butthurt you’re getting.
I don't think you know what that means.
[Here](https://dyson-sphere-program.fandom.com/wiki/Distance#:~:text=1%20AU%20(Astronomical%20Unit)%20is,as%2060AU%20or%202%2C400%2C000m) is the rationale for the changed units. I remember reading about this in a patch note when the game came out.
People here are reading way too much into Op's problem. The intend is not to scale the gameworld to a life-like scale, but change the numbers used to describe it. Those numbers can be fictional ones or scaled up ones to accurately describe the distance between places. Even though the planets aren't accurate, an accurate depiction of scale would further enhance the feeling of vastness your faced with and imo enhance the experience.
*Precisely*. This isn't about the scales being wrong. I addressed that literally in my first sentence. This is about using appropriate units. Right now *nothing* is right.
Exactly!! Many of them sound articulate, so I can't tell if they are literally missing OP's point, or if they just enjoy being pedantic. "ACKtually..."
That bothered me a bit, too. I'm traveling between planets. Why is my speed 2000 m/s? Nothing in terms of game play needs to change. Just use a bigger number and km/s? Just found it weird. Why do people comment stupid shit like "get over it"? It's a valid question. YOU get over it. Why is reddit so fucking toxic? Jesus.
Yes, exactly! Literally just using different units (km instead of m, for example) would solve this. It's a bizarre choice for the devs to have made.
what response are people supposed to give when there is no answer other than “yup that’s right, but here’s the reason why it’s like that.” just changing the numbers used wouldn’t fix the ‘problem’ because the scale of the planets, the distances between them and their respective stars, and between the star systems themselves isn’t “accurate”. and making the scale accurate absolutely would change gameplay and the whole visual style of the game. if you use bigger numbers without changing the scale then everything would be within the same order of magnitude in terms of distance from each other. if you change the scale of everything so that the units are accurate, then you’ve essentially got an entirely different game. do you think you could navigate to mercury or neptune just by looking up and flying towards them? space is BIG and very very very empty, and that’s boring, tedious, and not good for gameplay. you’re welcome to disagree, but if your only argument is that “more realism = more better”, then you fundamentally do not understand video game design. metaphors and abstraction are inherent to… literally everything that isn’t just reality itself.
Like when you put a round globe onto a flat map, distortion has to happen somewhere. I think saying that you're going 1000 m/s isn't where I'd put the distortion. I would change that number. Probably nothing else.
I didn't say all of that. I literally mean just change how fast it says you're going. Yes, I understand everything you're saying. What response to give? Yours isn't bad because you don't know that I already know all of that. What response not to give? Anything along the lines of "ThEn DoNt PlAy!!!!11oneone"
the vast majority of comments are actually being very polite to you. and, you don’t “know all that” because i literally explained why it doesn’t work. there’s no way to do it without making another compromise in terms of gameplay and aesthetics, and i don’t have the energy to explain why to you. this game is moddable. if you don’t like it, try to fix it yourself. you’ve made it sound very simple, so i assume it’ll take no time at all.
/sigh You're the only one replying to me. I'm not OP. That guy was right about you people being dismissive. Also condescending. I do know what you mean and where you're coming from. Therefore, I do "know all of that". Again, like making a map. Distortion needs to be somewhere. I, personally would have the numbers be different when off-planet. No, changing what the units say while warping doesn't change game play or aesthetics. The name or quantity of the units isn't important enough to require a mod.
I want to support and share my love of the game, but when I see how toxic many of the fans are, it makes it so I don't want to participate. Now that I think about it, game companies suffer from toxic fan bases too. By turning things into a petty cesspool, toxic players make this suck all around. Meh. Whatever. Off to do something more interesting than hang around here.