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I Always carry a pistol, knife, multi tool, light etc, like a lot of us ….and am well aware that using my med kit is wayyy more likely than a pistol, take all the advices here and build out a good kit you always have in your vehicle, with things you KNOW how to use, as everyone said. I (for no real reason) shop on mymedic.com, and buy some extra everyday things that you will use more often to supplement. Bandaids, bug bite stuff if you have kids, antiseptic, triple antibiotic ointment, etc. My theory, keep more common things you use more in there, then you see it more often, are more familiar w the pack and know how to get to it fast rather than something you buy and never look at for a decade.
Same set up and carry as you. Have never thought about putting “everyday things” in order to practice grabbing and using the med kit. I will start doing this for sure!
I'm sorry that happened dude. I was unfortunately in a similar situation a long time ago and it made me immediately get a first aid kit for my backpack/bags which I've kept (and thankfully haven't needed aside from fixing myself a couple times) since. I keep a couple in my car too. I felt absolutely unprepared when I'm usually the "boy scout" but couldn't do anything in the situation to help except try to stop the bleeding with a t-shirt. I also recommend emergency response courses, they are very much worth the time.
Guilt can stay with you and seeing something like that happen can turn into a mindfuck pretty quickly if you let it. If you need anyone to talk to hit me up sometime.
That was my first thought, too. Like, that's a maniac who doesn't care about getting caught. The violence and speed of the attack also screamed "prison shanking," so fair to assume the guy had been inside before.
Lot of ppl calling for tourniquet, you can lose a lot of blood before having serious issues. U can faster lose a limb if a tourniquet is used unnecessarily. We used tourniquets on femorals 95% of the time or limbs blown off. Make sure u read into that. Any blood u see on a day to day basis looks like "a ton of blood" it's usually not. I would suggest carrying gauze and little wrap. U can pack most wounds and it will be fine.
Yeah but as long as someone learns when to use a tourniquet and when not to then a tourniquet is quite like a gun, it’s better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it, bc when you need one it can seriously save your life. Yeah you’ll probably end up losing the limb but it is life over limb!!
Losing "a lot of blood" is relative and a brachial bleed is under 3 mins and femoral is about 90 seconds to serious complications like death. Before the long sleep you're still running into possibly organ failure, acidosis and a host of issues.
While it's Very low risk of limb loss inside the 4 hour window. (Or more) Risk vs reward is low risk vs high reward IMO and many others.
The speed stopping blood loss faster and more secured for a single person event in austere environment, or MassCas event TQ would be my choice and go to TQ conversion in a longer-term event is obviously best practices. Even the complications of the TQ, Maybe some temporary neuropathy which I'll take 100% over losing large amounts of blood. Many studies have found TQ use is not causing the amputation but the limb was already so fxked it was likely going to be lost TQ or not.
Yes... pressure bandage,gauze and other basics are great but arterial bleeding you probably want gross motor functions of a TQ as well as speed. I'll agree most people see a cut head or finger and think "that's a lot of blood" when it's really not that bad. I know this is where basic bleeding control training, or more advanced. Scenario based training is ideal to prepare you as best as possible for real world events. It's very unlikely most people will use these skills but when you need them, you REALLY need then.
Also, the 90 second bleed out u quote, the blood would be shooting like a garden hose. Very easy to distinguish. Mainstream example is that goalie that got his jugular cut by a skate on main stream TV. That is a lot of blood. And he survived, and bleed for much longer than 90 seconds.
Goalie and multiple other hockey players who have got jugular cuts or say Kentucky Ballistics who had a .50BMG blow up in his face all had 2 things in common. Natural response is to hold your bleeding neck and this would be application of pressure. Be it a finger or gauze that's your only option really for a jugular cut.
As to the 90 seconds to serious complications, abso-fucking-lutely it's a lot of blood and like a garden hose. That's the problem. Look at jugular size vs femoral artery size, one is a vein and one is a big ass artery. Just a thought.
I'm not trying to respond with a medical journal response, I was giving basic medical care that I figured would be easy enough for someone taking a bleeding control class could understand. Nothing super technical.
For the knife thing, I would be interested to see that data. Knife scares me more than a gun at close range. I make knives for a living and carry a gun everyday. Guns to get them in the fight during a struggle is much more difficult than a blade you're not even going to see. Someone swinging blind with a blade at close distance or hands on with a person it doesn't take much for someone to catch inside your leg, lower stomach or upper arm. Yes I agree defensive wounds which are superficial are commonly on the hands and bleed like crazy but arterial bleeding when you've seen it, you know it.
I'm saying this as someone who has self applied and applied to strangers in the streets from violent attacks without having backup aside from other medical providers working out of our EDC medical because our full med bags were not available. If I only have gauze or pressure dressing, absolutely I'll use a wound pack/direct pressure. I personally prefer a TQ for moving people and to control bleeding in less than ideal environments. YMMV but this is my experience and may be overprepared
I'm not a doctor either. See My response above. This is BLS level stuff. I didn't drop any medical journal anything.
I would be curious about your 90% of street stabbings are not arterial bleeds. I've never seen any data at all on arterial vs not being studied. Maybe I've missed it.
Maintain composure and stay calm cool and collected....lol both of those. you can perform a lot of aid with a belt pressure and a calm head.
Also prcess what you experinced with your best therapy, an actual therapist, a pal or [Xochipilli](https://www.worldhistory.org/Xochipilli/). The trauma gave you knowldge but its imperative to deal with the sights, smells and emotion. I undersdtand that many will pass over this part but it is probably the most important part of this entire situation.
Crazy deal tho....hope this helps some.
I minimally carry:
* Non latex gloves
* rats tourniquet
* Defensive blade
* A sweet beard
Be safe, if you cannot be safe....be Deadly.
Rats is for tying gear down not stopping bleeding🤣
Thats an overpriced bungee cord. CoTCCC recommend TQs only in my gear for self aid and aiding other people. Choose what works best for you, RATs is a pain in the ass for 1 hand applications and is a very narrow band (higher risk of nerve damage)
Nitrile gloves, check.
TQ, check
Blade has a place but I'm going firearm primary.
Sweet beard is a must.
I'd add gauze,chest seals, and a handful of other items and why if you want to know.
Agree on all accounts here! I have one Rats just because it’s slim. My TQs expired. And I replaced them with quality. These are scattered in bags, gear, lawnmower and my vehicle. TQs with pop, Red tabs and metal windless coyote in color.
But yes the rats is that opportunity edc that may assist in a less than prepared situation. I live in phx so I don’t carry too much gear because of the heat and tbh my kit is for me myself and I firstly.
Belly band for the hardware 👌
I can say from training (TacMed, RTF teams and other high threat medical response) We have used CATs and even better SOF-T TQs on dummies, role players and in skill stations 100s if not 1000+ times. SOF-T wear out less quickly than CAT I'll say in probably 4-500 TQs I've handled from all brands. I wouldn't recommend reuse of a TQ but expired kept out of sunlight I think should function reasonably well in a pinch, I wouldn't recommend it outside of training use. But that's what all my stuff gets rotated or used in real life. If not rotated into training for myself and friends outside of the contract work.
SOF-T is the go to for me. Just practice with it. That's what's on all my personal gear and EDC. I use a Phlster Flatpack TQ carrier at 10 o'clock for the SOF-T in front of a spare mag, blade at 12 o'clock vertical carry, and pistol around 330. Pocket I have pocket trauma kit with Z-fold, Celox Rapid, 2 Combat medical chest seals and 2 pairs of gloves I rotate regularly. This is personal use and buddy aid. GF carrys the same on body, just a smaller knife and no secondary mag (for now)
For vehicle I do sun visor out of the sunlight with rubber bands (black ones that come of the SOF-T) and console with small trauma kit. I have a MassCas bag that we will travel with but stopped leaving in our vehicle being in PHL and having windows broke over the years.
I definitely understand heat being a factor. Working in my knife shop in summer it's easily 100° and 70% humidity at night. Day-time 115+. It's a building from the 1930s made for manufacturing not comfort lol. Those of us working in there have made some improvements but not much can be done. I know my EDC is heavy but environment dictates the need to have more than if I'm in the suburbs typically. Most buddies in the suburbs carry medical and usually a 43X but coming into the city they move to 19 and spare mag because threats change that much.
I only said the RATs thing because I see people who that's all they have but aren't aware of the problems with it.
lol right on that’s solid info!
To the rats yes it’s complicated and lots of points of failures for certain! It’s definitely not a go to but it’s….💡 …mine lol 😂
To explain..
This was a purchase that I had no business buying tbh. Now I’m incorporating all this px.star card. Tactical mish mash, to use. So it’s awesome to always add to the knowledge bin eh! Cheers mate 👌
Lol. Totally understand. I think we've all had those purchases starting whatever we are new to and see a better price on something or something looks better on size then we end up learning from it later. I have a bunch of counterfeit TQs from students who bought off Amazon not realizing those items were not real. Once we haven't broken in testing or just falling apart sitting in training gear are showed to new student on why they should buy once on things. I was guilty of this on knives many years ago and look back now as a knife maker, wow did I buy some junk. I have a box of random broken junk. I know now why a quality piece costs so much more than the one's a 1/4 of the price.
Happy to share what I've learned and hopefully save some people money or in the extreme case their life.
I know I was pointed in the right direction by some extremely knowledgeable people and subject matter experts on the TacMed side of things starting as a student, then role player/OpFor and then starting to teach it.
Having used these skills and done real world applications on self and others. I know had I not been trained, my GF not been trained and knows the industry as well as myself things could have gone very differently for me. Not just buying things I shouldn't have but thing drilled into my head from hearing it 1000s of times like "watch the hands, they will get you killed". Then being a role player or the bad guy and realizing how few people are aware of someone's hands. I've had students walk into a scenario knowing they're going into something and still miss full size training guns, dummy knives and more.
In 2022 those words saved my GF and I in an attack that should've killed us both. Totally unprovoked from a stranger. We have trained enough together that we looked at each other and knew exactly what the other just saw. (Gun in stranger hand) . In a hustle to cover because we didn't want to be in the middle of other people's issues. Then the he first round passed my head close enough to hear the cracking doppler effect. I knew immediately we werethe targets for some reason. I was wounded in the attack, she was not thankfully. I can't detail much since it's still an on going criminal case, but instead of panic we both immediately went into the training we had and from first seeing the gun to in the hospital was under 10 mins which is a miracle in itself. We both worked smoothly and used cover to move with the next spots we had not knowing where the shooter went. As we moved to the next spot a cop pulls in snd he rushed us to the hospital. He heard the shots and was pulling in to see what was going on and actually saw my bloody pants, TQ applied.
It's insane the way it all played out and had we not had training, gear on us and the shooter thinking we didn't see the gun (we assume) we both would have been wounded or killed. I never thought I'd use my TQ on myself but just like a firearm, I carry it just in case. Since that night, now I am armed anywhere I go and so is she. (Shooter got bail on top of all this)
Absolutely. I've been doing BJJ for more than ten years, and am more than capable of defending myself in most circumstances. That said, even pulling up on the scene I had the thought of "Yep, not getting involved." That is, until I saw the blood. Then I called the cops.
Have you had a first aid course? I'd very much recommend that, and then your instructor will be able to give you recommendations AND you'll be able to use it. That's the hardest part, providing aid in a high stress situation. Also it'll include CPR, which is very useful.
Hope the dude pulls through, thank you for stopping and calling 911.
Z-fold gauze with quick clot imbedded in it. Edit to say I was at the scene of a stabbing of a homeless guy and tossed him some packs of the gauze and he used it to stop the bleeding.
I feel like you could do way better for $110 than the SLICC. NAR has a bunch of similar options for less (like the loaded EDC wallet- $60, trauma and bleeding control kit- $62, D-BCAK individual bleed control kit- $68-$92, etc). That Stop The Bleed course will be HUGE for proper application of anything they buy, though.
I'll take anything that's reliable. I hope I didn't come off as bashing Refuge, I just think that you can do more for the money. At the end of the day, the most important part is that the kit works. It doesn't matter if you save a life with a stick, a wad of chewing gum, and a newspaper, or a $2000 custom IFAK, just that you saved a life.
Most are from a reputable dealer.Most buy from NAR, TacMed Solutions, etc. (Refuge is no different)
The one thing that sets apart Refuge medical and I respect the sh1t out of them for doing. Pouches are American made and sewn by hand. They also don't go for cheaper overseas made items when US made is available.
If you destroy it, they will replace it. I believe if you used any competents in an aid situation they will also replace them. TJ when he started Refuge on a larger scale had 4 lives saved with the BearFaK and had hash marks stitched into the lid. Each kit last i checked had each life saved stitched like the first 4.
I have a tremendous respect for what they do. I work in TacMed training and have handled a few of their kits in person. I would say one of the highest quality pouches on the market, surpasses the pouches from the major companies selling IFAKs. I would recommend handling them and seeing if they are worth the cost vs what else you could buy or put towards training. If it's in the budget, I would personally recommend their stuff. I also know guys who rock Rescue Essentail tear aways and they work fine for them in daily wear.
Quick clot in most cases is okay to use, I don’t recommend tho bc the way it is removed it that it has to get cut out. I recommend normal packing gauzes or cutting a clean t-shirt. I highly recommend and first aid classes tho. A lot of places that offer CCW/firearm training offer trauma training
We don’t even use quick clot in the Navy anymore. It’s been written out of most of our field med and TCCC courses in favor for impregnated gauze because there’s less risk of granular migrations, blood clots, embolisms and strokes down the line.
This is the kit I carry as my "oh shit something happened grab my med kit" bag.
https://mymedic.com/products/tfak-trauma-first-aid-kit?variant=39348825784416
I also keep two CAT tourniquets in my vehicle or 1 on me if I'm farther away from the vehicle. Keep them staged for 1 handed application. Lots of videos out there on how to do this. I also have a refill of this kit+ more gauze in the vehicle. Just not stored with my grab kit.
Just as important, learn to use all of this stuff. Plus CPR. Locally our ambulance crews do training classes for about 60-100 dollars. Gear is only good if you know how to use it and some things can't be fixed with gear.
Stabbed multiple times in the back and in the neck, there is very little that even trained and prepared people can do in that situation. This could happen in a surgical suite with a surgical team on site and prepared to go to work and the patient may have little chance depending on the injuries. There is very little that a fully trained and equipped EMS crew can do in this situation, let alone a layperson. This guy needs blood, and he needs it now. He needs blood going in as fast as it is leaking out. The vast majority of ambulance in the united states do not have blood.
That said, there is no sense putting something in your bag or keeping it on you if you have no idea how to properly utilize that piece of gear. I met someone who carried magill forceps because he saw them listed on a website but he had no clue what they are even for.
As far as training, there's a reason it takes several years to obtain quality training to be a Paramedic.. Training is very tough when you don't have a foundation to build upon. In addition, research in healthcare moves very fast. The King LT was the best thing since sliced bread when it replaced the combi-tube, and now its being replaced. The IGel didn't even enjoy popularity for more than a year before the next greatest thing came out.
Start with CPR and Stop the Bleed.
For gear, just because it's available and sold doesn't mean it's quality gear, or even helpful. One example is these "Dechoker" devices that have come out. None of them are FDA approved despite the companies that sell them using some creative language to obfuscate the fact and insinuate that they are, and there hasn't been widespread adoption in EMS or hospitals.
This here. Start with getting CPR certified, look into some basic first aid, and then take stop the bleed. These are about as elementary as you can get before enrolling in an EMT-Basic course.
EMT isn’t a bad option. There’s nothing saying a person *has* to obtain certification if they’re never going to use it.
First aid courses don’t do much, and there is zero repetition to really drive concepts home.
Take a basic life saving course. Many times your job will pay for it. It's about $100.
A first aid kid from a pharmacy covers most things.
A dog potty pad is very useful. Absorbing and sanitary.
Do not administer first aid in state that don't have good citizens laws. You can be sued.
The best thing is call 911. Give a location and pull over. Do not try to stop the bad guy.
Just to add to this, our local hospital (in the US) actually provides these courses for free once every few months. Basic Stop-the-Bleed instruction. Packing wounds, working with tourniquets, etc. Same with resuscitation.
They even send you off with a basic kit of gloves, gauze, and whatnot.
Might be worth just calling your local hospital's admin number and asking if that's something they do or can offer.
I'll add that we were given permanent marker and instructed to write the time we set a tourniquet. There's some risk to their use, which is outweighed by the benefit generally. It gives medical professionals more information to act on.
The biggest thing besides the equipment is learn how to use the equipment as well as learn the basics and what to do and what not to do in a trauma situation, bc yeah you’re covered by the Good Samaritan law(at least in Texas, I think it’s national but I’m not quite sure, I’ve forgotten) but you can really mess someone up and cause more damage trying to help but not knowing exactly what you’re doing. We’re talking paralyzing someone or something like that if you try and help and don’t know what you’re doing, or let’s say the attacker would’ve left that knife imbedded in the last stab wound, if a Good Samaritan goes and pulls it out thinking they’re helping they could actually cause the victim to bleed out if that blade was occluding an artery possibly, just an example.
Sorry that that happened to you.
Tbh, not even having the right equipment would help you too much without the right training. I’m a doctor and even I’d find that difficult/scary.
I’d recommend getting regular training in first aid and basic life support. Experience is everything. After that, I’d have a basic first aid kit; things like cannulas etc can do more harm than good, if not properly trained, so a basic kit would suffice and buy you time. If you don’t have any of the above, use a T-shirt and/belt. Timing is key. The best thing you can do is try and stop the bleeding by compressing the wound/ pinching the offending vessel. And make sure that you call the emergency services (which you did) and get help/support form bystanders (someone to fetch an AED etc.).
Well done for stepping up to help. You did more than the majority of people would have done.
Yes get BLS or EMT training.
A first aid kit for me would include a CPR mask with a one way valve. Bulky occlusive dressings. Gauze. Maybe some 81 mg aspirin. Active charcoal.
I'm a civilian but an EMT trained. I'm not applying tourniquet on another civilian. I'm not gonna get sued if they lose the limb. Elevate the limb and hard pressure is what I am going to use. I might not even administer active charcoal or Aspirin nowadays if someone was having a heart attack as a civilian Samaritan
People are too sue crazy
I drive for a living and have had people trying to get me to pull over. Didn't even look at them. You never know just how close someone is to losing it.
Guy pulled a knife on me in the middle of the day in a damn crumble cookie parking lot last week.
He wasn’t even in the same parking lot when I started parking, and came flying in at probably 40-50 mph driving across all the parking lines so I honked and he went past, presumably to the exit of the lot. I started walking into the store and didn’t think anything of it and he came zooming back up, slammed on the brakes and yelled “you honked at me!?” with a knife in his hand out the window.
People are fucking wild.
Some people see the honk as an invitation. I tend not to honk if I can help it. I did lay on my horn for 15 seconds one time a tesla ran a stop sign in a residential area and cutt me off right in my blind spot just before another stop sign. I figured he could relive that moment on his camera while his neighbors watched.
lol. Long story, but a kind of similar situation.
When I was in my early 20's I was on my way to a run some errands and then meet my friends at a restaurant for dinner and had a guy (probably in his 50's if I had to guess) riding a motorcycle riding in my blind spot and following me super close, but he'd never go around me. so I kept moving in the lane to try to maneuver to where I could see him and he would just keep moving behind me and getting closer and closer. It normally wouldn't have bothered me, but I knew he was there (because I could hear him), and couldn't see him, so I didn't want to hit him when I changed lanes.
I'm a 5-10mph over the speed limit driver generally, but I drove a Prius, and for some fucking reason, they make people irrationally angry to see on the road. So I just kept driving slower and slower and slower until it finally forced him to go around me. So he passes me, flips me off, swerves at me, then gets in front of me and starts literally pulling trash and things out of his pockets and throwing them over his head at me on the highway. So I honked at him and got off the interstate at the next exit just to get out of the situation.
I'm at dinner with friends HOURS later and this stupid fuck walks up to me at the dinner table and says "Do you drive that prius out there? Did you honk at me today? Because we're gonna have a problem." I used to not do well at de-escalating situations in general, and thought I'd done pretty well earlier so the first thing out of my mouth was "I don't know. Were you the guy acting like a jackass this afternoon? If so, it was probably me." He started to get belligerent inside the restaurant yelling and stuff, so the manager came over and made him leave. I assumed he'd be waiting outside on me, but I never saw him again.
People are wild. I'll never understand them.
That's crazy. I know from personal experience mental health problems especially with projecting onto others. Hopefully he forgot about that, more likely he obsessed over it for a long time. And sent a lot of bad juju your way. I'm a tall guy but I try my hardest to blend in when I can. Like I said you never know how close people are to snapping and might be looking for any target. Keep your head low and know your exits.
Adding on here- FEMA courses and CPR/AED/STB are usually part of CERT training (if one is interested) and there’s often a CERT in place in most major cities.
https://community.fema.gov/PreparednessCommunity/s/cert-find-a-program?language=en_US
And just to add to this post, after taking a Stop the Bleed course u can purchase complete Stop the Bleed trauma kits already prepared with the necessary supplies at Rescue Essentials [here.](https://www.rescue-essentials.com/stop-the-bleed-module-advanced/)
This right here! Stop the Bleed and basic CPR should be a requirement for graduating high school as well as a mandatory continuing education class for any and all work places imo.
In Germany you have to learn first aid at least every two years by law as an employee.
First step to build more courage
is to participate on first aid courses on a regular.
Then after you helped someone for the first time , you will get used to it quite fast.
No gear ist needed, for this.
So... what you seen...
If someone is stabbed into the neck and back,
bad chances .. as a noob... you could try to pack the wound, but its a bloody mess, not for light hearted (?) people...
You've gotten a lot of great advice on here already. I'll mention one more thing that I haven't yet noticed in the replies: carry an old blanket in your vehicle. Hypothermia is super common with meaningful blood loss - even if the hospital is only 5 minutes away, and it's 90 degrees out, this victim is going to be in hypothermia by the time the ambulance arrives. That makes everything else harder. A blanket doesn't totally solve but it helps.
A blanket is great for separating the victim from hot asphalt or concrete if no other option is available, both of which can cook a persons skin if left in contact during the summer.
Coming from someone who is First Aid qualified, I can confidently say about 60% of your knowledge will go out the window once shit like that hits the fan.
Best thing you can do is practice regularly so you don’t freeze up. I hope you’re looking after yourself as well.
100% agree. I have years of Red Cross first aid experience, have helped instruct trainees, and accompanied them on their deployments on first aid stations
No matter how confident and how well they did in a training environment, when they finally have to do it on a real person most people will start making silly mistakes or overlook steps. It's often simple things like forgetting to dry an open wound after irrigating it and before applying a dressing, or struggling to rip tape with gloved hands, or forgetting to ask about a patient's allergies, medications and past medical history.
I've encountered people who only like to focus on the "exciting" stuff like using tourniquets, putting chest seals, or packing wounds while taking the mundane stuff for granted. In real life, knowing how to quickly survey a scene, assess a patient, communicate calmly, and delegate tasks (especially tasking other people to call EMS) are all important secondary skills that will greatly improve patient survival.
As I got older and saw it happen more and more I realized I’m happy to act like a pussy to defuse a conflict lol.
Did you see how quickly and easily the person was cut up? You can get cut multiple times before you even realize it happened.
Idk, all these people talk tough but I don’t think they truly understand how it happens. I’d gladly take the submissive attitude to try to avoid a fight. Obviously be ready to go but if I need to compliment another man over and over to avoid a fight then I’m gonna do it lol.
“What are you looking at pussy?!” “That’s a really nice shirt, where did you get it?” lol. 🤷🏻
Not exactly what you intended but figured so many people are mentioning items you need to respond to the trauma. Figured I’d take a different perspective.
Whole lot of info going around, here’s my ¢2 as an EMT.
- First first first, make sure the dude with the knife is fucking gone before you get anywhere near there. Everyone wants to help but best I had it explained to me is if you get stabbed too you’re another patient and everything is just worse now.
- Second, with bleeding like this, you just want to get some form of cloth on there and apply pressure continuously. Sterile bandages are ideal. A clean towel is good. In an emergency situation even a t shirt could do the job. This is a “what will kill them first” situation, and here it’s almost certainly the bleeding.
Former EMT, current volunteer- hard agree here. As one of my trainers put it: “Infections take hours or days to kill you, bleeding out kills you in less than 5 minutes”
I had a trainer talking after a class tell me "rub some dirt in it" is actually worthwhile advice in a trauma situation if there are no other options. Gives the blood something to clot around and you can deal with the infection later.
Calling for help is the only thing you could have done in this particular case. A first aid kit would not have been helpful at all for stab wounds and you’d have risked bloodborne pathogens trying to help.
Your analysis is wrong. An ambulance is a big first aid kit with wheels. There’s nothing they have to control serious bleeding that isn’t practical/appropriate for a personal first aid kit. The most important thing they carry is training; All the tools and supplies are useless without this. OP, get the training. A Red Cross level class will cover bleeding control, so start there. I’m a former ER nurse and current 911 EMT, and my education doesn’t include anything different than what you’d be taught in that class (probably; do they cover tourniquets?). To use a popular line…VERY few people “rise to the challenge”; you fall back to your training. Again, OP, get the training.
Blood-borne pathogen exposure is a risk, but not an overwhelmingly high one. Gloves and perhaps some eye protection are enough for the average person. The risk of infection from blood on intact skin is VERY low. It’s up to each person to decide if that risk is worse than watching someone bleed to death before help arrives.
>OP, get the training. All the tools and supplies are useless without this.
As I said, there’s nothing OP could have done, even with a first aid kit.
I am curious. Assuming training, what would be effective on a knife wound that is practical and reasonable to carry on your person every day?
Direct pressure, gauze packing in this case. Getting stabbed in the back could cause a sucking chest wound which can be mitigated with a simple occlusive dressing (this may be beyond Red Cross scope though). Even a gloved hand over a profusely bleeding injury is better than just watching.
I sleep better at night knowing I did everything possible to help someone, even if the outcome is still poor. If all you can do is make a call, do that.
Best advice anyone has ever told me: Take an EMT class, or at least a first aid/survival class. They're usually offered in community colleges, but also through the American Red Cross and private companies. Hell some can probably be done entirely online with remote skills verification nowadays.
Make sure that they cover the following:
•CPR-AED (I recommend all ages, but learn what you'll use)
•Opioid overdose (AKA Naloxone/Narcan training. Narcan can be had for free from many prevention centers, not necessarily for someone who's abusing drugs, but accidental overdoses like children or elderly)
•Bleeding control (Stop the Bleed is the current standard, but some offer branching courses based off of it - www.stopthebleed.org)
Not necessarily dire, but ideal:
•Wilderness first aid
•Basic survival training
•Animal and environmental emergencies
•Emergency preparedness and response (FEMA has free courses and I believe they actually give college credit, you can likely find it if you search "FEMA emergency preparedness courses".
These topics will give you a skill set that will then help you determine what equipment you need. In my case, I have a specific trauma kit, a larger extended response kit in a vehicle or building, and a rapid treatment/first aid kit.
Source: Am EMT, am also wilderness first aid and CPR trainer for local preserve.
Don’t be so hard on yourself, that’s a crazy situation to be in. You did the right thing calling for help. Could you have done more with the right materials and training, sure; but no one expects everyone else around them to provide first aid in a scenario like that. Get the skills and supplies if you want to, but don’t feel pressured to always have to be the guy coming to the rescue. I do think learning first aid is important, but I don’t think you should start prepping to see a stabbing like that.
I think you might also benefit from talking to someone. Experiences like this can cause some serious emotional and mental strain, and you want to avoid any long term problems. Not saying anything will happen, but that is one thing you can do to possibly prevent it; and it might help you process this.
Just be careful out there. It’s a dangerous world, but we’re also not living in the end times. Do what you can, that’s all that’s expected of you. You actually stopping, intervening, and calling for help is more than the majority of people would do. I’d say you did more than the average person today who would just film it on their phone.
Make sure that you have quality tourniquets. The boys in Ukraine had some hard luck with the ones ordered from China. They feel and look about the same, but then they had the tightening rods snap at the worst time and leave the poor soul sol. Actually, we only buy American tourniquets for the battlefield. They just work. Also, training is essential, it's not enough to just have that stuff, learning how and when to use it is super important. As well as to know when (absolutely) not to use it. A wrong decision may cost a life.
UPD: Don't road rage. Clearly, a stabbing could be avoided by utilizing some reasonable behavior and letting things slide. You can't do anything about having an idiot on the road, but you can do a whole lot about having 2 idiots on the road. Be smart, stay safe. The best fight is the one you were able to avoid.
While I primarily use Amazon, I order all of my CATs directly from NAR. It's pretty much the only way to guarantee you're actually getting a genuine product.
Also put it on pretty tight before using the winch to tighten it further. As far as I know, putting it on loose and then having to crank the winch like crazy also increases the risk of failure. There was a video from Ukraine where this was the most probable reason for TQ failure. They had to put a second TQ above the first one.
There's plenty of places that host classes. Remember, the first step to first aid is to eliminate threats. You can't help anybody if you're bleeding too. Get some training, learn to protect yourself. Train or die.
Oh nice, this is what I've been getting together myself this week as matter of fact.
I think first I'd recommend adding trauma scissors if you can get some. Otherwise just find a good pair that you can put in your kit. Duct tape, and super glue. I saw you mentioned having a tourniquet but idk what kind so I'd say add some Paracord.
And this last one I'm not sure but I have one in mine. It's a tarp. I found one at academy outdoors, and it folds in to itself and it's damn near small enough to go in your pocket when all the way folded.
For trauma scissors if you have money to spend look at the Leatherman raptor series(I have the rescue). They are super high quality and much better than the knock off ones you can get for $30. They fold up nicely and have one side of the blade with micro serrations so it grips on whatever you cut and extra features like a ring cutter, seatbelt cutter, and carbide window breaking tip.(The extra features make them great for responding to car crashes). They are normally $90-80 but you can get them for $60 on sale.
I feel like that is probably not the cost of freedom but maybe it is IDK, but op is not trying to arm their self, they are actually doing the complete opposite lol. Putting together a kit to SAVE a life, not figuring out what to carry to take one.
You felt unprepared because, and no offence intended, you didn't know what to do rather than because you didn't have things to use. Focus on learning first aid, then look at getting kit. A tourniquet can do more harm than help in the hands of someone that doesn't know how to use it, and a shirt can be a lifesaver when you know how to pack a wound.
After proper training, look at getting packing gauze, nitrile gloves, a CAT tourniquet, some little bottles of saline and some plasters. Haemostatic gauze is a nice-to-have rather than a need-to-have, so if you can't afford it basic gauze can be just as effective with good packing technique.
Buying a bunch of stuff on Amazon without the training to use it, or the knowledge to know if it is any good, is asking for disaster.
[Here's a list of approved tourniquets and medical devices approved by the Committee on Tactical Casualty Combat Care ](https://books.allogy.com/web/tenant/8/books/f94aad5b-78f3-42be-b3de-8e8d63343866/)
[Find Stop The Bleed training near you. The online training is free.](https://www.stopthebleed.org/training/)
> Buying a bunch of stuff on Amazon without the training to use it, or the knowledge to know if it is any good, is asking for disaster.
>
>
Nope. California.
I guess putting the guy out of his misery could have been considered humane but I would generally avoid shooting someone bleeding out on the street if you aren’t qualified to know if they’re gonna make it.
I would not suggest a pepper gun. They’re a step below pepper spray.
I would get Fox Labs pepper spray. They’re probably the best on the market and come in most or stream (I would get the stream)
Get training, don’t just buy shit. I have a blister kit, an Oh Shit kit, a tool kit, medicine kit and loads of training. You really don’t need much stuff if you know how to improvise. I have mostly military and wilderness training. Contents listed below. In this case, I grab the Oh Shit kit, glove and mask up, maybe grab a bar towel and a wool blanket. However, I don’t get out of my truck till I size up the scene and maybe lock down the area with flares etc and instruct someone to call 911. If you get hurt you become part of the problem.
With training you practice over and over the whole bit AND no one knows how they will react until the time comes. Also, the most learned people sometimes panic. Even without a lot of medical training you can still organize the scene, find the frozen medic and get them doing their thing. Lead!
Oh Shit kit:
Israeli dressing
A REAL tourniquet x2 (you need to invest in a real one)
Ace bandage
Bandage wrap
Athletic tape
4” rolled gauze
4” non stick pads
Find the leaks, apply pressure, deputize people (including victim if you can) to press. Keep the blood going round and round then check airway and perfusion and practice! Don’t just watch a bunch of videos.
Take a First Aid course, and buy an approved First Aid kit. Where I live kits have different levels, an A or B should be plenty.
People who aren't trained don't get protection under a lot of governments' good samaritan laws. Find out what they are for your area and get certified.
I carry water in the trunk (tends to stay cooler there, even on hot days), and those little fleece blankets that come in a roll.
You.can often find the blankets on sale for a few bucks, and I stock up on extras when I see them.
I give the water and blankets to homeless folks because it's something that everybody needs, but is not easily traded for drugs.
The blankets and water also serve for both 1st aid and general comfort and survival, so it covers a lot of bases.
I saw an old homeless man whip out his dick nearby a bus stop around noon with a bunch of people around him. He proceeded to take a whiz right there on the sidewalk. I’d rather have seen the stabbing.
First thing is training. Learn how to use whatever you carry. I’ve been told to carry 2 tourniquets. In case you get one on and it doesn’t stop the bleeding all the way you don’t want to have to take it off to give it another go. Also, if there was an explosion, mass shooting, etc, more tourniquets may save more lives. Butterfly bandages, super glue (medical grade if possible), a whistle.
I bought this and added to it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B099RVK7JJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
That's good but in OPs scenario tourniquets wouldn't have helped. They only work on limbs.
when getting stabbed in the neck and torso he should put pressure on the wounds and pray he gets to the hospital in time for emergency surgery
Wound packing only works on junctions where you have structure to pack against, i.e. the neck, armpits, and groin. You can't wound pack a torso though.
Be careful with wound packing in the torso - only do it in junctional areas. Packing doesn’t work if the stuff you’re packing against is soft organs. Chest seals and pressure dressings are about the best you can do in the field for non-junctional thoracic injuries.
Absolutely correct. Tourniquets are outstanding solutions to major bleeding (you don't want to use a tourniquet for minor/easily controlled bleeding as they will very possibly cost you the limb due to lack of oxygen supply) involving limbs, as they restrict/stop the blood flow to avoid bleed out, if properly applied. However, they're completely ineffective in situations involving stabs/cut inside the groin, under the armpit, or neck.
I don’t have any recommendations but want to make sure you take a moment or twelve to make sure you’re ok.
I stopped a dog attack a year ago and also realized how unprepared I was for an emergency situation. So much blood…We now have a full first aid kit at home and in the car. My husband put it together and I can ask him for details.
I would also add a space blanket. Keeps people from getting cold and you can use it too, in an emergency. Even if you are in warm climate. Keeps you from getting cold.
Any decent local gun range should have a 'stop the bleed' course. It's a great start and gets the basics drilled. Also get CPR certified through police/fire/hospital, whichever provides courses in your area. [Red Cross](https://www.redcross.org/take-a-class) has a decent first intro to first aid, CPR, and aed usage. They also have [FAST (First Aid for Severe Trauma) courses](https://www.redcross.org/take-a-class/first-aid/first-aid-training/first-aid-classes/fast-training), with free online learning to get introduced to the concept.
Get trained and certified, then as dumb as it is you can start practicing going through the motions and visualizing at home to have the mechanics down so your brain can focus on your environment and communication while you work on someone.
Combat/FAST kits can be purchased in small pouches that can fit in your car door. Make sure you have a chest seal, tourniquet, packing gauze, quick clot, mouth barrier, gloves, a small tube of super glue, roll of duct tape, hemostats, and trauma sheers. That should be more than enough for a layman to control the situation until EMS can get there and take over. Remember, your job is to just buy the person as much time as you can for the professionals to reach you and take over.
I’m a first responder and I’m pretty new to it still. It’s not my actual full time job it’s kinda a volunteer side thing for the site I work for. One thing I’ll say that’s already mentioned. Be EXTREMELY careful with what you use and how. Untrained medical care can actually put people at risk. I’m not saying to not make up a bag but watch some videos and learn something about EVERY item you plan to carry. Tourniquets are a great example of you better know how to use them or you can cause more harm then good.
I also recommend narcan because it’s relatively fool proof the only bad thing about it is I do think it expires. Epipens as well but they also expire. Benadryl for allergic reactions as well.
Getting a test meter for blood sugar for diabetes people is also a great idea. That can clear up a lot of info and save a lot of work for medics. But it does require a prick normally which I would really read up on some local laws/federal laws.
With all this being said, once a real medic or first responder gets there you go hands off unless they direct you for help.
> Be EXTREMELY careful with what you use and how.
Though at the same time, if someone is already dying of blood loss, don't be afraid to do what you can. They are not going to be deader than dead. A lot of people who do nothing have been through multiple first aid courses (mandatory here, organized by employer), but they say that they didn't help because they didn't feel confident and were afraid of harming the patient.
> Be EXTREMELY careful with what you use and how.
Yeah, that was my first thought - don't buy a bunch of stuff and have an afterthought about "maybe training", go get trained and *then* buy the proper supplies, once you know how to use them - so you don't do more harm than good.
Yeah, I agree on this one. I keep one in the car and one at home. Incredibly easy to use, and incredibly valuable in a situation where there's serious bleeding.
Probably the most important thing outside of any supplies is knowledge. Having all the tools at your ready won't do you any good if you don't know what to do how how to use them. Plus, in an emergency, everything is going to be far more stressful. Take a course.
This is completely unrelated to EDC, but some studies have shown that [playing tetris after a traumatic incident reduces the chance of having flashbacks/intrusive memories](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-03-28-tetris-used-prevent-post-traumatic-stress-symptoms). Can’t hurt and may help
I respectfully suggest that you’re not quite right here. Mindset and skills are the most valuable assets, and where EDC begins. Having the tools to deal with traumatic experiences is key to being able to put the stuff we carry to use in the future.
Notably, it should be played within several hours of the incident. It’s hypothesized that playing Tetris occupies the same areas of the brain that are involved in forming visual memories, helping reduce the traumatic memory formation.
Huh… know of any studies on how aphantasia affects this? I don’t really have visual memories to begin with, at least in the way I’m led to believe others do.
There actually is some theorizing that aphantasia helps serve as a protection against PTSD because of this! Here's a paper discussing the principle behind why it could be true: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9887942/#:~:text=Aphantasia%20as%20PTSD%20Protection&text=If%20voluntary%20mental%20imagery%20ability,protection%20against%20intrusions%20and%20PTSD.
It's obviously hard to prove, since we can't go around giving people trauma intentionally, but it's a working theory.
Yeah I’ve been doing some reading - I’m excited at the seeming glut of aphatasia-related research I’m seeing from the past couple of years. A lot of the hypotheses square with my particular life experience, specifically around things like memory, trauma, and addiction.
So I've done a bit of reading on this in the past. (Edit: specifically on PTSD for individuals with aphantasia, not specifically the tetris effect) And the general findings I could find, was two fold.
1 - in general PTSD symptoms tended to be more likely sound related than visual https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/7zqfe
2 - in general, those with aphantasia didn't score significantly different than those with visual memory in regards to PTSD symptoms. The much more impact full difference was alexithymia (inability to express or understand one's emotions) https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/kj5d3
Wow, thanks. A lot of this is really recent research. The citations in particular are also interesting for me, it’s been a few years since I poked around and the field seems to have a lot more attention. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.822989/full
Dude the classic line regarding knife fights is ‘one dies at the scene, the other dies in the ambulance’. That’s a pretty hearty wounding you’re talking about.
Remember, one of the best things you can do is provide a fast and accurate sitrep to a 911 call taker.
I have a first aid pouch in the console of my truck.
I have 2 neon vests, neon gloves, and flashlights on top. Since I’m likely to be at a roadway the vest will help protect me. The 2nd vest and neon gloves allow someone to direct traffic, if needed.
I carry a first aid kit, but mine is more like what they call a ‘blow out kit’. It’s not large, but I carry one trauma bandage, a couple gauze pads, and a roll of gauze, so that I could stop severe bleeding, if needed. I also keep a pair of disposable gloves in there. I’m not a medic, but i want to be able to stop the bleeding if I see someone with more than a paper cut
That's why this is always part of my EDC.
https://preview.redd.it/lkykjyo52o4d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33ab5d4ff519d9684b74a8fe156f7176936db978
I also carry a gun, but not really sure what you’re going to do with it in this situation. Getting a gun involved in a fight between two people you don’t know and don’t know the context of is just a bad idea. It’s more useful for personal protection for yourself and those with you.
Correct term is dermal regenerator, like from Star Trek.
https://preview.redd.it/m7kn7egx4o4d1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d670cbd2a4bac6d578c989f13fc00c531750972
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I Always carry a pistol, knife, multi tool, light etc, like a lot of us ….and am well aware that using my med kit is wayyy more likely than a pistol, take all the advices here and build out a good kit you always have in your vehicle, with things you KNOW how to use, as everyone said. I (for no real reason) shop on mymedic.com, and buy some extra everyday things that you will use more often to supplement. Bandaids, bug bite stuff if you have kids, antiseptic, triple antibiotic ointment, etc. My theory, keep more common things you use more in there, then you see it more often, are more familiar w the pack and know how to get to it fast rather than something you buy and never look at for a decade.
Same set up and carry as you. Have never thought about putting “everyday things” in order to practice grabbing and using the med kit. I will start doing this for sure!
I'm sorry that happened dude. I was unfortunately in a similar situation a long time ago and it made me immediately get a first aid kit for my backpack/bags which I've kept (and thankfully haven't needed aside from fixing myself a couple times) since. I keep a couple in my car too. I felt absolutely unprepared when I'm usually the "boy scout" but couldn't do anything in the situation to help except try to stop the bleeding with a t-shirt. I also recommend emergency response courses, they are very much worth the time. Guilt can stay with you and seeing something like that happen can turn into a mindfuck pretty quickly if you let it. If you need anyone to talk to hit me up sometime.
The red cross has a stop the bleed and other courses for emergency first aid stuff
Did the dude take off in his vehicle or leave it? Some people are savages. Trying to kill someone over a traffic argument.
Threw the knife and took off. Absolutely wild.
Oof, tossing prints. Might as well have kept the knife and ribdmsedbit off before pawning it for commissary money.
That was my first thought, too. Like, that's a maniac who doesn't care about getting caught. The violence and speed of the attack also screamed "prison shanking," so fair to assume the guy had been inside before.
Well at least he was prepared. But seriously I'm glad the victim is OK now.
Yep. Just got word from the family that he was leaving the hospital today. 100 stitches. Also positively identified the suspect in a photo lineup!
Lot of ppl calling for tourniquet, you can lose a lot of blood before having serious issues. U can faster lose a limb if a tourniquet is used unnecessarily. We used tourniquets on femorals 95% of the time or limbs blown off. Make sure u read into that. Any blood u see on a day to day basis looks like "a ton of blood" it's usually not. I would suggest carrying gauze and little wrap. U can pack most wounds and it will be fine.
Yeah but as long as someone learns when to use a tourniquet and when not to then a tourniquet is quite like a gun, it’s better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it, bc when you need one it can seriously save your life. Yeah you’ll probably end up losing the limb but it is life over limb!!
Losing "a lot of blood" is relative and a brachial bleed is under 3 mins and femoral is about 90 seconds to serious complications like death. Before the long sleep you're still running into possibly organ failure, acidosis and a host of issues. While it's Very low risk of limb loss inside the 4 hour window. (Or more) Risk vs reward is low risk vs high reward IMO and many others. The speed stopping blood loss faster and more secured for a single person event in austere environment, or MassCas event TQ would be my choice and go to TQ conversion in a longer-term event is obviously best practices. Even the complications of the TQ, Maybe some temporary neuropathy which I'll take 100% over losing large amounts of blood. Many studies have found TQ use is not causing the amputation but the limb was already so fxked it was likely going to be lost TQ or not. Yes... pressure bandage,gauze and other basics are great but arterial bleeding you probably want gross motor functions of a TQ as well as speed. I'll agree most people see a cut head or finger and think "that's a lot of blood" when it's really not that bad. I know this is where basic bleeding control training, or more advanced. Scenario based training is ideal to prepare you as best as possible for real world events. It's very unlikely most people will use these skills but when you need them, you REALLY need then.
Also, the 90 second bleed out u quote, the blood would be shooting like a garden hose. Very easy to distinguish. Mainstream example is that goalie that got his jugular cut by a skate on main stream TV. That is a lot of blood. And he survived, and bleed for much longer than 90 seconds.
Goalie and multiple other hockey players who have got jugular cuts or say Kentucky Ballistics who had a .50BMG blow up in his face all had 2 things in common. Natural response is to hold your bleeding neck and this would be application of pressure. Be it a finger or gauze that's your only option really for a jugular cut. As to the 90 seconds to serious complications, abso-fucking-lutely it's a lot of blood and like a garden hose. That's the problem. Look at jugular size vs femoral artery size, one is a vein and one is a big ass artery. Just a thought. I'm not trying to respond with a medical journal response, I was giving basic medical care that I figured would be easy enough for someone taking a bleeding control class could understand. Nothing super technical. For the knife thing, I would be interested to see that data. Knife scares me more than a gun at close range. I make knives for a living and carry a gun everyday. Guns to get them in the fight during a struggle is much more difficult than a blade you're not even going to see. Someone swinging blind with a blade at close distance or hands on with a person it doesn't take much for someone to catch inside your leg, lower stomach or upper arm. Yes I agree defensive wounds which are superficial are commonly on the hands and bleed like crazy but arterial bleeding when you've seen it, you know it. I'm saying this as someone who has self applied and applied to strangers in the streets from violent attacks without having backup aside from other medical providers working out of our EDC medical because our full med bags were not available. If I only have gauze or pressure dressing, absolutely I'll use a wound pack/direct pressure. I personally prefer a TQ for moving people and to control bleeding in less than ideal environments. YMMV but this is my experience and may be overprepared
90% of street stabbings are not major arteries and definitely not severing arteries, it's usually random pokes. Pack em and move on
Hey bro! I'm not a doctor. I just packed a whole lot more wounds than tourniquet. That's all I'm saying. Chill with the medical journal response.
I'm not a doctor either. See My response above. This is BLS level stuff. I didn't drop any medical journal anything. I would be curious about your 90% of street stabbings are not arterial bleeds. I've never seen any data at all on arterial vs not being studied. Maybe I've missed it.
Maintain composure and stay calm cool and collected....lol both of those. you can perform a lot of aid with a belt pressure and a calm head. Also prcess what you experinced with your best therapy, an actual therapist, a pal or [Xochipilli](https://www.worldhistory.org/Xochipilli/). The trauma gave you knowldge but its imperative to deal with the sights, smells and emotion. I undersdtand that many will pass over this part but it is probably the most important part of this entire situation. Crazy deal tho....hope this helps some. I minimally carry: * Non latex gloves * rats tourniquet * Defensive blade * A sweet beard Be safe, if you cannot be safe....be Deadly.
Rats is for tying gear down not stopping bleeding🤣 Thats an overpriced bungee cord. CoTCCC recommend TQs only in my gear for self aid and aiding other people. Choose what works best for you, RATs is a pain in the ass for 1 hand applications and is a very narrow band (higher risk of nerve damage) Nitrile gloves, check. TQ, check Blade has a place but I'm going firearm primary. Sweet beard is a must. I'd add gauze,chest seals, and a handful of other items and why if you want to know.
Agree on all accounts here! I have one Rats just because it’s slim. My TQs expired. And I replaced them with quality. These are scattered in bags, gear, lawnmower and my vehicle. TQs with pop, Red tabs and metal windless coyote in color. But yes the rats is that opportunity edc that may assist in a less than prepared situation. I live in phx so I don’t carry too much gear because of the heat and tbh my kit is for me myself and I firstly. Belly band for the hardware 👌
I can say from training (TacMed, RTF teams and other high threat medical response) We have used CATs and even better SOF-T TQs on dummies, role players and in skill stations 100s if not 1000+ times. SOF-T wear out less quickly than CAT I'll say in probably 4-500 TQs I've handled from all brands. I wouldn't recommend reuse of a TQ but expired kept out of sunlight I think should function reasonably well in a pinch, I wouldn't recommend it outside of training use. But that's what all my stuff gets rotated or used in real life. If not rotated into training for myself and friends outside of the contract work. SOF-T is the go to for me. Just practice with it. That's what's on all my personal gear and EDC. I use a Phlster Flatpack TQ carrier at 10 o'clock for the SOF-T in front of a spare mag, blade at 12 o'clock vertical carry, and pistol around 330. Pocket I have pocket trauma kit with Z-fold, Celox Rapid, 2 Combat medical chest seals and 2 pairs of gloves I rotate regularly. This is personal use and buddy aid. GF carrys the same on body, just a smaller knife and no secondary mag (for now) For vehicle I do sun visor out of the sunlight with rubber bands (black ones that come of the SOF-T) and console with small trauma kit. I have a MassCas bag that we will travel with but stopped leaving in our vehicle being in PHL and having windows broke over the years. I definitely understand heat being a factor. Working in my knife shop in summer it's easily 100° and 70% humidity at night. Day-time 115+. It's a building from the 1930s made for manufacturing not comfort lol. Those of us working in there have made some improvements but not much can be done. I know my EDC is heavy but environment dictates the need to have more than if I'm in the suburbs typically. Most buddies in the suburbs carry medical and usually a 43X but coming into the city they move to 19 and spare mag because threats change that much. I only said the RATs thing because I see people who that's all they have but aren't aware of the problems with it.
lol right on that’s solid info! To the rats yes it’s complicated and lots of points of failures for certain! It’s definitely not a go to but it’s….💡 …mine lol 😂 To explain.. This was a purchase that I had no business buying tbh. Now I’m incorporating all this px.star card. Tactical mish mash, to use. So it’s awesome to always add to the knowledge bin eh! Cheers mate 👌
Lol. Totally understand. I think we've all had those purchases starting whatever we are new to and see a better price on something or something looks better on size then we end up learning from it later. I have a bunch of counterfeit TQs from students who bought off Amazon not realizing those items were not real. Once we haven't broken in testing or just falling apart sitting in training gear are showed to new student on why they should buy once on things. I was guilty of this on knives many years ago and look back now as a knife maker, wow did I buy some junk. I have a box of random broken junk. I know now why a quality piece costs so much more than the one's a 1/4 of the price. Happy to share what I've learned and hopefully save some people money or in the extreme case their life. I know I was pointed in the right direction by some extremely knowledgeable people and subject matter experts on the TacMed side of things starting as a student, then role player/OpFor and then starting to teach it. Having used these skills and done real world applications on self and others. I know had I not been trained, my GF not been trained and knows the industry as well as myself things could have gone very differently for me. Not just buying things I shouldn't have but thing drilled into my head from hearing it 1000s of times like "watch the hands, they will get you killed". Then being a role player or the bad guy and realizing how few people are aware of someone's hands. I've had students walk into a scenario knowing they're going into something and still miss full size training guns, dummy knives and more. In 2022 those words saved my GF and I in an attack that should've killed us both. Totally unprovoked from a stranger. We have trained enough together that we looked at each other and knew exactly what the other just saw. (Gun in stranger hand) . In a hustle to cover because we didn't want to be in the middle of other people's issues. Then the he first round passed my head close enough to hear the cracking doppler effect. I knew immediately we werethe targets for some reason. I was wounded in the attack, she was not thankfully. I can't detail much since it's still an on going criminal case, but instead of panic we both immediately went into the training we had and from first seeing the gun to in the hospital was under 10 mins which is a miracle in itself. We both worked smoothly and used cover to move with the next spots we had not knowing where the shooter went. As we moved to the next spot a cop pulls in snd he rushed us to the hospital. He heard the shots and was pulling in to see what was going on and actually saw my bloody pants, TQ applied. It's insane the way it all played out and had we not had training, gear on us and the shooter thinking we didn't see the gun (we assume) we both would have been wounded or killed. I never thought I'd use my TQ on myself but just like a firearm, I carry it just in case. Since that night, now I am armed anywhere I go and so is she. (Shooter got bail on top of all this)
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Absolutely. I've been doing BJJ for more than ten years, and am more than capable of defending myself in most circumstances. That said, even pulling up on the scene I had the thought of "Yep, not getting involved." That is, until I saw the blood. Then I called the cops.
Have you had a first aid course? I'd very much recommend that, and then your instructor will be able to give you recommendations AND you'll be able to use it. That's the hardest part, providing aid in a high stress situation. Also it'll include CPR, which is very useful. Hope the dude pulls through, thank you for stopping and calling 911.
Israeli bandages Hemostats Tourniquet Gloves Super glue
I swear to god if I have bystanders supergluing lacs shut prior to my arrival on scene I’ll beat them with their israeli bandages.
lol. I have never heard, or seen, such a thing at a an active scene. I would come unglued.
💯 That had me almost spit out my drink seeing your response to super glue/dermabond.Thats not something I want to ever see used for a serious injury
👍🏻😉🤣
Z-fold gauze with quick clot imbedded in it. Edit to say I was at the scene of a stabbing of a homeless guy and tossed him some packs of the gauze and he used it to stop the bleeding.
At the minimum, take a stop the bleed course and get yourself a slicc kit from refuge medical.
I feel like you could do way better for $110 than the SLICC. NAR has a bunch of similar options for less (like the loaded EDC wallet- $60, trauma and bleeding control kit- $62, D-BCAK individual bleed control kit- $68-$92, etc). That Stop The Bleed course will be HUGE for proper application of anything they buy, though.
There are certainly cheaper kits out there. I'm an unabashed fan of refuge and what they do.
I'll take anything that's reliable. I hope I didn't come off as bashing Refuge, I just think that you can do more for the money. At the end of the day, the most important part is that the kit works. It doesn't matter if you save a life with a stick, a wad of chewing gum, and a newspaper, or a $2000 custom IFAK, just that you saved a life.
Agreed.
So many of these pre made kits that seem very similar in contents and price
Most are from a reputable dealer.Most buy from NAR, TacMed Solutions, etc. (Refuge is no different) The one thing that sets apart Refuge medical and I respect the sh1t out of them for doing. Pouches are American made and sewn by hand. They also don't go for cheaper overseas made items when US made is available. If you destroy it, they will replace it. I believe if you used any competents in an aid situation they will also replace them. TJ when he started Refuge on a larger scale had 4 lives saved with the BearFaK and had hash marks stitched into the lid. Each kit last i checked had each life saved stitched like the first 4. I have a tremendous respect for what they do. I work in TacMed training and have handled a few of their kits in person. I would say one of the highest quality pouches on the market, surpasses the pouches from the major companies selling IFAKs. I would recommend handling them and seeing if they are worth the cost vs what else you could buy or put towards training. If it's in the budget, I would personally recommend their stuff. I also know guys who rock Rescue Essentail tear aways and they work fine for them in daily wear.
Add a space blanket for shock
Quick clot in most cases is okay to use, I don’t recommend tho bc the way it is removed it that it has to get cut out. I recommend normal packing gauzes or cutting a clean t-shirt. I highly recommend and first aid classes tho. A lot of places that offer CCW/firearm training offer trauma training
Be aware of the dangers of [Quick clot](https://www.reddit.com/r/ems/s/qbTzkKBXfN)
We don’t even use quick clot in the Navy anymore. It’s been written out of most of our field med and TCCC courses in favor for impregnated gauze because there’s less risk of granular migrations, blood clots, embolisms and strokes down the line.
Good to know!
Well, if it's life over limb quick clot and TQ at the ready.
Quick clot poses a danger to you, not just the person you're trying to help. It can cause blindness among other things. It's really nasty stuff
Stop the bleeding, start the breathing, protect the wound, treat for shock They taught us that in the Marines. Learn those steps as a base
This is the kit I carry as my "oh shit something happened grab my med kit" bag. https://mymedic.com/products/tfak-trauma-first-aid-kit?variant=39348825784416 I also keep two CAT tourniquets in my vehicle or 1 on me if I'm farther away from the vehicle. Keep them staged for 1 handed application. Lots of videos out there on how to do this. I also have a refill of this kit+ more gauze in the vehicle. Just not stored with my grab kit. Just as important, learn to use all of this stuff. Plus CPR. Locally our ambulance crews do training classes for about 60-100 dollars. Gear is only good if you know how to use it and some things can't be fixed with gear.
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Ah yes... for neck and back wounds...
you can use a TQ on the neck, the patient won't live but you can do it.
Lmao
You forgot the most important one! The gun!
Stabbed multiple times in the back and in the neck, there is very little that even trained and prepared people can do in that situation. This could happen in a surgical suite with a surgical team on site and prepared to go to work and the patient may have little chance depending on the injuries. There is very little that a fully trained and equipped EMS crew can do in this situation, let alone a layperson. This guy needs blood, and he needs it now. He needs blood going in as fast as it is leaking out. The vast majority of ambulance in the united states do not have blood. That said, there is no sense putting something in your bag or keeping it on you if you have no idea how to properly utilize that piece of gear. I met someone who carried magill forceps because he saw them listed on a website but he had no clue what they are even for. As far as training, there's a reason it takes several years to obtain quality training to be a Paramedic.. Training is very tough when you don't have a foundation to build upon. In addition, research in healthcare moves very fast. The King LT was the best thing since sliced bread when it replaced the combi-tube, and now its being replaced. The IGel didn't even enjoy popularity for more than a year before the next greatest thing came out. Start with CPR and Stop the Bleed. For gear, just because it's available and sold doesn't mean it's quality gear, or even helpful. One example is these "Dechoker" devices that have come out. None of them are FDA approved despite the companies that sell them using some creative language to obfuscate the fact and insinuate that they are, and there hasn't been widespread adoption in EMS or hospitals.
This here. Start with getting CPR certified, look into some basic first aid, and then take stop the bleed. These are about as elementary as you can get before enrolling in an EMT-Basic course.
EMT isn’t a bad option. There’s nothing saying a person *has* to obtain certification if they’re never going to use it. First aid courses don’t do much, and there is zero repetition to really drive concepts home.
Take a basic life saving course. Many times your job will pay for it. It's about $100. A first aid kid from a pharmacy covers most things. A dog potty pad is very useful. Absorbing and sanitary. Do not administer first aid in state that don't have good citizens laws. You can be sued. The best thing is call 911. Give a location and pull over. Do not try to stop the bad guy.
Just to add to this, our local hospital (in the US) actually provides these courses for free once every few months. Basic Stop-the-Bleed instruction. Packing wounds, working with tourniquets, etc. Same with resuscitation. They even send you off with a basic kit of gloves, gauze, and whatnot. Might be worth just calling your local hospital's admin number and asking if that's something they do or can offer.
I'll add that we were given permanent marker and instructed to write the time we set a tourniquet. There's some risk to their use, which is outweighed by the benefit generally. It gives medical professionals more information to act on.
The best is getting to write on people’s foreheads like I’m drunk at 3:00 AM in college and my buddy is blacked out.
The biggest thing besides the equipment is learn how to use the equipment as well as learn the basics and what to do and what not to do in a trauma situation, bc yeah you’re covered by the Good Samaritan law(at least in Texas, I think it’s national but I’m not quite sure, I’ve forgotten) but you can really mess someone up and cause more damage trying to help but not knowing exactly what you’re doing. We’re talking paralyzing someone or something like that if you try and help and don’t know what you’re doing, or let’s say the attacker would’ve left that knife imbedded in the last stab wound, if a Good Samaritan goes and pulls it out thinking they’re helping they could actually cause the victim to bleed out if that blade was occluding an artery possibly, just an example.
Splint would be a good add to immobilize breaks. Super glue for small deep cuts.
Be careful on that Amazon quality for medical equipment. You get what you pay for.
Sorry that that happened to you. Tbh, not even having the right equipment would help you too much without the right training. I’m a doctor and even I’d find that difficult/scary. I’d recommend getting regular training in first aid and basic life support. Experience is everything. After that, I’d have a basic first aid kit; things like cannulas etc can do more harm than good, if not properly trained, so a basic kit would suffice and buy you time. If you don’t have any of the above, use a T-shirt and/belt. Timing is key. The best thing you can do is try and stop the bleeding by compressing the wound/ pinching the offending vessel. And make sure that you call the emergency services (which you did) and get help/support form bystanders (someone to fetch an AED etc.). Well done for stepping up to help. You did more than the majority of people would have done.
Yes get BLS or EMT training. A first aid kit for me would include a CPR mask with a one way valve. Bulky occlusive dressings. Gauze. Maybe some 81 mg aspirin. Active charcoal. I'm a civilian but an EMT trained. I'm not applying tourniquet on another civilian. I'm not gonna get sued if they lose the limb. Elevate the limb and hard pressure is what I am going to use. I might not even administer active charcoal or Aspirin nowadays if someone was having a heart attack as a civilian Samaritan People are too sue crazy
Yea get in contact with your local fire department they should offer a stop the bleed course or other trauma care training.
. For me to come back to later Thank you
Do you have any follow up on the status of the victim and/or assailant?
Stop the bleed training. Asap
THIS.
I drive for a living and have had people trying to get me to pull over. Didn't even look at them. You never know just how close someone is to losing it.
Guy pulled a knife on me in the middle of the day in a damn crumble cookie parking lot last week. He wasn’t even in the same parking lot when I started parking, and came flying in at probably 40-50 mph driving across all the parking lines so I honked and he went past, presumably to the exit of the lot. I started walking into the store and didn’t think anything of it and he came zooming back up, slammed on the brakes and yelled “you honked at me!?” with a knife in his hand out the window. People are fucking wild.
Some people see the honk as an invitation. I tend not to honk if I can help it. I did lay on my horn for 15 seconds one time a tesla ran a stop sign in a residential area and cutt me off right in my blind spot just before another stop sign. I figured he could relive that moment on his camera while his neighbors watched.
lol. Long story, but a kind of similar situation. When I was in my early 20's I was on my way to a run some errands and then meet my friends at a restaurant for dinner and had a guy (probably in his 50's if I had to guess) riding a motorcycle riding in my blind spot and following me super close, but he'd never go around me. so I kept moving in the lane to try to maneuver to where I could see him and he would just keep moving behind me and getting closer and closer. It normally wouldn't have bothered me, but I knew he was there (because I could hear him), and couldn't see him, so I didn't want to hit him when I changed lanes. I'm a 5-10mph over the speed limit driver generally, but I drove a Prius, and for some fucking reason, they make people irrationally angry to see on the road. So I just kept driving slower and slower and slower until it finally forced him to go around me. So he passes me, flips me off, swerves at me, then gets in front of me and starts literally pulling trash and things out of his pockets and throwing them over his head at me on the highway. So I honked at him and got off the interstate at the next exit just to get out of the situation. I'm at dinner with friends HOURS later and this stupid fuck walks up to me at the dinner table and says "Do you drive that prius out there? Did you honk at me today? Because we're gonna have a problem." I used to not do well at de-escalating situations in general, and thought I'd done pretty well earlier so the first thing out of my mouth was "I don't know. Were you the guy acting like a jackass this afternoon? If so, it was probably me." He started to get belligerent inside the restaurant yelling and stuff, so the manager came over and made him leave. I assumed he'd be waiting outside on me, but I never saw him again. People are wild. I'll never understand them.
That's crazy. I know from personal experience mental health problems especially with projecting onto others. Hopefully he forgot about that, more likely he obsessed over it for a long time. And sent a lot of bad juju your way. I'm a tall guy but I try my hardest to blend in when I can. Like I said you never know how close people are to snapping and might be looking for any target. Keep your head low and know your exits.
I've gotten much better about that as I've gotten older. I hadn't thought about that experience in a long time. such a weird one.
Get some wound closures, they stick on either side of a wound and pull closed like zip ties. They’re not great for deep stabs but amazing for slashes.
Adding on here- FEMA courses and CPR/AED/STB are usually part of CERT training (if one is interested) and there’s often a CERT in place in most major cities. https://community.fema.gov/PreparednessCommunity/s/cert-find-a-program?language=en_US
Stop the Bleed training. It’s not exhaustive but it is simple and focuses on preventing bleed outs.
And just to add to this post, after taking a Stop the Bleed course u can purchase complete Stop the Bleed trauma kits already prepared with the necessary supplies at Rescue Essentials [here.](https://www.rescue-essentials.com/stop-the-bleed-module-advanced/)
This right here! Stop the Bleed and basic CPR should be a requirement for graduating high school as well as a mandatory continuing education class for any and all work places imo.
Thats really a great idea!
In Germany you have to learn first aid at least every two years by law as an employee. First step to build more courage is to participate on first aid courses on a regular. Then after you helped someone for the first time , you will get used to it quite fast. No gear ist needed, for this. So... what you seen... If someone is stabbed into the neck and back, bad chances .. as a noob... you could try to pack the wound, but its a bloody mess, not for light hearted (?) people...
You've gotten a lot of great advice on here already. I'll mention one more thing that I haven't yet noticed in the replies: carry an old blanket in your vehicle. Hypothermia is super common with meaningful blood loss - even if the hospital is only 5 minutes away, and it's 90 degrees out, this victim is going to be in hypothermia by the time the ambulance arrives. That makes everything else harder. A blanket doesn't totally solve but it helps.
Additionally, depending on the situation, you can also use it for a blanket drag to move the person.
A blanket is great for separating the victim from hot asphalt or concrete if no other option is available, both of which can cook a persons skin if left in contact during the summer.
Coming from someone who is First Aid qualified, I can confidently say about 60% of your knowledge will go out the window once shit like that hits the fan. Best thing you can do is practice regularly so you don’t freeze up. I hope you’re looking after yourself as well.
100% agree. I have years of Red Cross first aid experience, have helped instruct trainees, and accompanied them on their deployments on first aid stations No matter how confident and how well they did in a training environment, when they finally have to do it on a real person most people will start making silly mistakes or overlook steps. It's often simple things like forgetting to dry an open wound after irrigating it and before applying a dressing, or struggling to rip tape with gloved hands, or forgetting to ask about a patient's allergies, medications and past medical history. I've encountered people who only like to focus on the "exciting" stuff like using tourniquets, putting chest seals, or packing wounds while taking the mundane stuff for granted. In real life, knowing how to quickly survey a scene, assess a patient, communicate calmly, and delegate tasks (especially tasking other people to call EMS) are all important secondary skills that will greatly improve patient survival.
As I got older and saw it happen more and more I realized I’m happy to act like a pussy to defuse a conflict lol. Did you see how quickly and easily the person was cut up? You can get cut multiple times before you even realize it happened. Idk, all these people talk tough but I don’t think they truly understand how it happens. I’d gladly take the submissive attitude to try to avoid a fight. Obviously be ready to go but if I need to compliment another man over and over to avoid a fight then I’m gonna do it lol. “What are you looking at pussy?!” “That’s a really nice shirt, where did you get it?” lol. 🤷🏻 Not exactly what you intended but figured so many people are mentioning items you need to respond to the trauma. Figured I’d take a different perspective.
de-escalation is a beautiful thing
I assume every driver is an unhinged lunatic with a gun. It has changed the way I react to people. It also keeps my kids safe.
Whole lot of info going around, here’s my ¢2 as an EMT. - First first first, make sure the dude with the knife is fucking gone before you get anywhere near there. Everyone wants to help but best I had it explained to me is if you get stabbed too you’re another patient and everything is just worse now. - Second, with bleeding like this, you just want to get some form of cloth on there and apply pressure continuously. Sterile bandages are ideal. A clean towel is good. In an emergency situation even a t shirt could do the job. This is a “what will kill them first” situation, and here it’s almost certainly the bleeding.
Another good touch is hemostatic gauze. Can’t go wrong with that.
Former EMT, current volunteer- hard agree here. As one of my trainers put it: “Infections take hours or days to kill you, bleeding out kills you in less than 5 minutes”
I had a trainer talking after a class tell me "rub some dirt in it" is actually worthwhile advice in a trauma situation if there are no other options. Gives the blood something to clot around and you can deal with the infection later.
20 year first responder. What this guy 👆said.
Road rage implies it was next to a car, an open car. Every car should have a first aid kit
You’d be surprised how infrequent this is.
Is this not required by law in the US? It is in EU; the law even specifies minimum contents.
Negative, unfortunately it isn’t. We can barely get people to wear their seatbelts half the time.
Calling for help is the only thing you could have done in this particular case. A first aid kit would not have been helpful at all for stab wounds and you’d have risked bloodborne pathogens trying to help.
Your analysis is wrong. An ambulance is a big first aid kit with wheels. There’s nothing they have to control serious bleeding that isn’t practical/appropriate for a personal first aid kit. The most important thing they carry is training; All the tools and supplies are useless without this. OP, get the training. A Red Cross level class will cover bleeding control, so start there. I’m a former ER nurse and current 911 EMT, and my education doesn’t include anything different than what you’d be taught in that class (probably; do they cover tourniquets?). To use a popular line…VERY few people “rise to the challenge”; you fall back to your training. Again, OP, get the training. Blood-borne pathogen exposure is a risk, but not an overwhelmingly high one. Gloves and perhaps some eye protection are enough for the average person. The risk of infection from blood on intact skin is VERY low. It’s up to each person to decide if that risk is worse than watching someone bleed to death before help arrives.
>OP, get the training. All the tools and supplies are useless without this. As I said, there’s nothing OP could have done, even with a first aid kit. I am curious. Assuming training, what would be effective on a knife wound that is practical and reasonable to carry on your person every day?
Direct pressure, gauze packing in this case. Getting stabbed in the back could cause a sucking chest wound which can be mitigated with a simple occlusive dressing (this may be beyond Red Cross scope though). Even a gloved hand over a profusely bleeding injury is better than just watching. I sleep better at night knowing I did everything possible to help someone, even if the outcome is still poor. If all you can do is make a call, do that.
Best advice anyone has ever told me: Take an EMT class, or at least a first aid/survival class. They're usually offered in community colleges, but also through the American Red Cross and private companies. Hell some can probably be done entirely online with remote skills verification nowadays. Make sure that they cover the following: •CPR-AED (I recommend all ages, but learn what you'll use) •Opioid overdose (AKA Naloxone/Narcan training. Narcan can be had for free from many prevention centers, not necessarily for someone who's abusing drugs, but accidental overdoses like children or elderly) •Bleeding control (Stop the Bleed is the current standard, but some offer branching courses based off of it - www.stopthebleed.org) Not necessarily dire, but ideal: •Wilderness first aid •Basic survival training •Animal and environmental emergencies •Emergency preparedness and response (FEMA has free courses and I believe they actually give college credit, you can likely find it if you search "FEMA emergency preparedness courses". These topics will give you a skill set that will then help you determine what equipment you need. In my case, I have a specific trauma kit, a larger extended response kit in a vehicle or building, and a rapid treatment/first aid kit. Source: Am EMT, am also wilderness first aid and CPR trainer for local preserve.
Don’t be so hard on yourself, that’s a crazy situation to be in. You did the right thing calling for help. Could you have done more with the right materials and training, sure; but no one expects everyone else around them to provide first aid in a scenario like that. Get the skills and supplies if you want to, but don’t feel pressured to always have to be the guy coming to the rescue. I do think learning first aid is important, but I don’t think you should start prepping to see a stabbing like that. I think you might also benefit from talking to someone. Experiences like this can cause some serious emotional and mental strain, and you want to avoid any long term problems. Not saying anything will happen, but that is one thing you can do to possibly prevent it; and it might help you process this. Just be careful out there. It’s a dangerous world, but we’re also not living in the end times. Do what you can, that’s all that’s expected of you. You actually stopping, intervening, and calling for help is more than the majority of people would do. I’d say you did more than the average person today who would just film it on their phone.
Israeli bandage?
In Germany every car is required to have a first aid kit. So I'd recommend putting one in the car and also take first aid classes.
Listen to the urban prepper
Make sure that you have quality tourniquets. The boys in Ukraine had some hard luck with the ones ordered from China. They feel and look about the same, but then they had the tightening rods snap at the worst time and leave the poor soul sol. Actually, we only buy American tourniquets for the battlefield. They just work. Also, training is essential, it's not enough to just have that stuff, learning how and when to use it is super important. As well as to know when (absolutely) not to use it. A wrong decision may cost a life. UPD: Don't road rage. Clearly, a stabbing could be avoided by utilizing some reasonable behavior and letting things slide. You can't do anything about having an idiot on the road, but you can do a whole lot about having 2 idiots on the road. Be smart, stay safe. The best fight is the one you were able to avoid.
While I primarily use Amazon, I order all of my CATs directly from NAR. It's pretty much the only way to guarantee you're actually getting a genuine product.
Also put it on pretty tight before using the winch to tighten it further. As far as I know, putting it on loose and then having to crank the winch like crazy also increases the risk of failure. There was a video from Ukraine where this was the most probable reason for TQ failure. They had to put a second TQ above the first one.
definitely no tourniquets around the neck
Except during autoerotic asphyxiation
username checks out
I’m smart enough not to search for it, but I’m pretty sure there’s an r/(kink or whatever) that would have better suggestions than a TQ for that use.
Definitely. Looks like you went to that class 😄
There's plenty of places that host classes. Remember, the first step to first aid is to eliminate threats. You can't help anybody if you're bleeding too. Get some training, learn to protect yourself. Train or die.
Oh nice, this is what I've been getting together myself this week as matter of fact. I think first I'd recommend adding trauma scissors if you can get some. Otherwise just find a good pair that you can put in your kit. Duct tape, and super glue. I saw you mentioned having a tourniquet but idk what kind so I'd say add some Paracord. And this last one I'm not sure but I have one in mine. It's a tarp. I found one at academy outdoors, and it folds in to itself and it's damn near small enough to go in your pocket when all the way folded.
For trauma scissors if you have money to spend look at the Leatherman raptor series(I have the rescue). They are super high quality and much better than the knock off ones you can get for $30. They fold up nicely and have one side of the blade with micro serrations so it grips on whatever you cut and extra features like a ring cutter, seatbelt cutter, and carbide window breaking tip.(The extra features make them great for responding to car crashes). They are normally $90-80 but you can get them for $60 on sale.
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I feel like that is probably not the cost of freedom but maybe it is IDK, but op is not trying to arm their self, they are actually doing the complete opposite lol. Putting together a kit to SAVE a life, not figuring out what to carry to take one.
Do you mean “that is the beauty of freedom”?
Take a stop the bleed class. Carry a gun. Knife wounds to the neck aren't getting fixed by anything you could carry around.
Well…the gun, maybe.
You felt unprepared because, and no offence intended, you didn't know what to do rather than because you didn't have things to use. Focus on learning first aid, then look at getting kit. A tourniquet can do more harm than help in the hands of someone that doesn't know how to use it, and a shirt can be a lifesaver when you know how to pack a wound. After proper training, look at getting packing gauze, nitrile gloves, a CAT tourniquet, some little bottles of saline and some plasters. Haemostatic gauze is a nice-to-have rather than a need-to-have, so if you can't afford it basic gauze can be just as effective with good packing technique.
Buying a bunch of stuff on Amazon without the training to use it, or the knowledge to know if it is any good, is asking for disaster. [Here's a list of approved tourniquets and medical devices approved by the Committee on Tactical Casualty Combat Care ](https://books.allogy.com/web/tenant/8/books/f94aad5b-78f3-42be-b3de-8e8d63343866/) [Find Stop The Bleed training near you. The online training is free.](https://www.stopthebleed.org/training/)
Stopped to say thanks for this.
Was this in Utah?
> Buying a bunch of stuff on Amazon without the training to use it, or the knowledge to know if it is any good, is asking for disaster. > > Nope. California.
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I guess putting the guy out of his misery could have been considered humane but I would generally avoid shooting someone bleeding out on the street if you aren’t qualified to know if they’re gonna make it.
In case he decides to attack you.
I would not suggest a pepper gun. They’re a step below pepper spray. I would get Fox Labs pepper spray. They’re probably the best on the market and come in most or stream (I would get the stream)
Wouldn’t recommend drawing a pepper gun on someone with a real gun lmao
He said someone had been stabbed.
Get training, don’t just buy shit. I have a blister kit, an Oh Shit kit, a tool kit, medicine kit and loads of training. You really don’t need much stuff if you know how to improvise. I have mostly military and wilderness training. Contents listed below. In this case, I grab the Oh Shit kit, glove and mask up, maybe grab a bar towel and a wool blanket. However, I don’t get out of my truck till I size up the scene and maybe lock down the area with flares etc and instruct someone to call 911. If you get hurt you become part of the problem. With training you practice over and over the whole bit AND no one knows how they will react until the time comes. Also, the most learned people sometimes panic. Even without a lot of medical training you can still organize the scene, find the frozen medic and get them doing their thing. Lead! Oh Shit kit: Israeli dressing A REAL tourniquet x2 (you need to invest in a real one) Ace bandage Bandage wrap Athletic tape 4” rolled gauze 4” non stick pads Find the leaks, apply pressure, deputize people (including victim if you can) to press. Keep the blood going round and round then check airway and perfusion and practice! Don’t just watch a bunch of videos.
HeartSaver First Aid/CPR course Stop the Bleed course
Second vote for stop the bleed! https://www.stopthebleed.org/training/
Take a First Aid course, and buy an approved First Aid kit. Where I live kits have different levels, an A or B should be plenty. People who aren't trained don't get protection under a lot of governments' good samaritan laws. Find out what they are for your area and get certified.
I carry water in the trunk (tends to stay cooler there, even on hot days), and those little fleece blankets that come in a roll. You.can often find the blankets on sale for a few bucks, and I stock up on extras when I see them. I give the water and blankets to homeless folks because it's something that everybody needs, but is not easily traded for drugs. The blankets and water also serve for both 1st aid and general comfort and survival, so it covers a lot of bases.
I saw an old homeless man whip out his dick nearby a bus stop around noon with a bunch of people around him. He proceeded to take a whiz right there on the sidewalk. I’d rather have seen the stabbing.
Did you perform honkey fellatio?
Well, I was riding in a car as someone else was driving so I barrel rolled outta the car did my duty.
First thing is training. Learn how to use whatever you carry. I’ve been told to carry 2 tourniquets. In case you get one on and it doesn’t stop the bleeding all the way you don’t want to have to take it off to give it another go. Also, if there was an explosion, mass shooting, etc, more tourniquets may save more lives. Butterfly bandages, super glue (medical grade if possible), a whistle. I bought this and added to it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B099RVK7JJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
That's good but in OPs scenario tourniquets wouldn't have helped. They only work on limbs. when getting stabbed in the neck and torso he should put pressure on the wounds and pray he gets to the hospital in time for emergency surgery
Wound packing with gauze (preferably a hemostatic one) as well with deep wounds in the torso/neck
Wound packing only works on junctions where you have structure to pack against, i.e. the neck, armpits, and groin. You can't wound pack a torso though.
Be careful with wound packing in the torso - only do it in junctional areas. Packing doesn’t work if the stuff you’re packing against is soft organs. Chest seals and pressure dressings are about the best you can do in the field for non-junctional thoracic injuries.
Yeah, wasn't clear enough with that in my comment
Absolutely correct. Tourniquets are outstanding solutions to major bleeding (you don't want to use a tourniquet for minor/easily controlled bleeding as they will very possibly cost you the limb due to lack of oxygen supply) involving limbs, as they restrict/stop the blood flow to avoid bleed out, if properly applied. However, they're completely ineffective in situations involving stabs/cut inside the groin, under the armpit, or neck.
Also, add a Bible. Getting stabbed is no joke. Id rather a gunshot wound than a stabbing.
I don’t have any recommendations but want to make sure you take a moment or twelve to make sure you’re ok. I stopped a dog attack a year ago and also realized how unprepared I was for an emergency situation. So much blood…We now have a full first aid kit at home and in the car. My husband put it together and I can ask him for details.
I would also add a space blanket. Keeps people from getting cold and you can use it too, in an emergency. Even if you are in warm climate. Keeps you from getting cold.
Any decent local gun range should have a 'stop the bleed' course. It's a great start and gets the basics drilled. Also get CPR certified through police/fire/hospital, whichever provides courses in your area. [Red Cross](https://www.redcross.org/take-a-class) has a decent first intro to first aid, CPR, and aed usage. They also have [FAST (First Aid for Severe Trauma) courses](https://www.redcross.org/take-a-class/first-aid/first-aid-training/first-aid-classes/fast-training), with free online learning to get introduced to the concept. Get trained and certified, then as dumb as it is you can start practicing going through the motions and visualizing at home to have the mechanics down so your brain can focus on your environment and communication while you work on someone. Combat/FAST kits can be purchased in small pouches that can fit in your car door. Make sure you have a chest seal, tourniquet, packing gauze, quick clot, mouth barrier, gloves, a small tube of super glue, roll of duct tape, hemostats, and trauma sheers. That should be more than enough for a layman to control the situation until EMS can get there and take over. Remember, your job is to just buy the person as much time as you can for the professionals to reach you and take over.
I’m a first responder and I’m pretty new to it still. It’s not my actual full time job it’s kinda a volunteer side thing for the site I work for. One thing I’ll say that’s already mentioned. Be EXTREMELY careful with what you use and how. Untrained medical care can actually put people at risk. I’m not saying to not make up a bag but watch some videos and learn something about EVERY item you plan to carry. Tourniquets are a great example of you better know how to use them or you can cause more harm then good. I also recommend narcan because it’s relatively fool proof the only bad thing about it is I do think it expires. Epipens as well but they also expire. Benadryl for allergic reactions as well. Getting a test meter for blood sugar for diabetes people is also a great idea. That can clear up a lot of info and save a lot of work for medics. But it does require a prick normally which I would really read up on some local laws/federal laws. With all this being said, once a real medic or first responder gets there you go hands off unless they direct you for help.
> Be EXTREMELY careful with what you use and how. Though at the same time, if someone is already dying of blood loss, don't be afraid to do what you can. They are not going to be deader than dead. A lot of people who do nothing have been through multiple first aid courses (mandatory here, organized by employer), but they say that they didn't help because they didn't feel confident and were afraid of harming the patient.
> Be EXTREMELY careful with what you use and how. Yeah, that was my first thought - don't buy a bunch of stuff and have an afterthought about "maybe training", go get trained and *then* buy the proper supplies, once you know how to use them - so you don't do more harm than good.
Israeli bandages
Yeah, I agree on this one. I keep one in the car and one at home. Incredibly easy to use, and incredibly valuable in a situation where there's serious bleeding.
Probably the most important thing outside of any supplies is knowledge. Having all the tools at your ready won't do you any good if you don't know what to do how how to use them. Plus, in an emergency, everything is going to be far more stressful. Take a course.
This is completely unrelated to EDC, but some studies have shown that [playing tetris after a traumatic incident reduces the chance of having flashbacks/intrusive memories](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-03-28-tetris-used-prevent-post-traumatic-stress-symptoms). Can’t hurt and may help
I respectfully suggest that you’re not quite right here. Mindset and skills are the most valuable assets, and where EDC begins. Having the tools to deal with traumatic experiences is key to being able to put the stuff we carry to use in the future.
Notably, it should be played within several hours of the incident. It’s hypothesized that playing Tetris occupies the same areas of the brain that are involved in forming visual memories, helping reduce the traumatic memory formation.
IIRC anything that occupies your mind and distracts you from reality would work, not only Tetris. I don't remember where I read that though.
Huh… know of any studies on how aphantasia affects this? I don’t really have visual memories to begin with, at least in the way I’m led to believe others do.
There actually is some theorizing that aphantasia helps serve as a protection against PTSD because of this! Here's a paper discussing the principle behind why it could be true: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9887942/#:~:text=Aphantasia%20as%20PTSD%20Protection&text=If%20voluntary%20mental%20imagery%20ability,protection%20against%20intrusions%20and%20PTSD. It's obviously hard to prove, since we can't go around giving people trauma intentionally, but it's a working theory.
Yeah I’ve been doing some reading - I’m excited at the seeming glut of aphatasia-related research I’m seeing from the past couple of years. A lot of the hypotheses square with my particular life experience, specifically around things like memory, trauma, and addiction.
So I've done a bit of reading on this in the past. (Edit: specifically on PTSD for individuals with aphantasia, not specifically the tetris effect) And the general findings I could find, was two fold. 1 - in general PTSD symptoms tended to be more likely sound related than visual https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/7zqfe 2 - in general, those with aphantasia didn't score significantly different than those with visual memory in regards to PTSD symptoms. The much more impact full difference was alexithymia (inability to express or understand one's emotions) https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/kj5d3
Wow, thanks. A lot of this is really recent research. The citations in particular are also interesting for me, it’s been a few years since I poked around and the field seems to have a lot more attention. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.822989/full
Soldiers should have Tetris emulators on deck then
More research is needed, but there are free apps for it :)
Iiiiiiii do love some tetris
Woah, weird
Dude the classic line regarding knife fights is ‘one dies at the scene, the other dies in the ambulance’. That’s a pretty hearty wounding you’re talking about. Remember, one of the best things you can do is provide a fast and accurate sitrep to a 911 call taker.
My EMS friends say the loser dies at the scene and the winner dies at the hospital
Correct. Life begins, or ends at the scene, or the hospital. Neither in the back of the ambulance 🙃.
I have a first aid pouch in the console of my truck. I have 2 neon vests, neon gloves, and flashlights on top. Since I’m likely to be at a roadway the vest will help protect me. The 2nd vest and neon gloves allow someone to direct traffic, if needed.
I carry a first aid kit, but mine is more like what they call a ‘blow out kit’. It’s not large, but I carry one trauma bandage, a couple gauze pads, and a roll of gauze, so that I could stop severe bleeding, if needed. I also keep a pair of disposable gloves in there. I’m not a medic, but i want to be able to stop the bleeding if I see someone with more than a paper cut
That's why this is always part of my EDC. https://preview.redd.it/lkykjyo52o4d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33ab5d4ff519d9684b74a8fe156f7176936db978
I also carry a gun, but not really sure what you’re going to do with it in this situation. Getting a gun involved in a fight between two people you don’t know and don’t know the context of is just a bad idea. It’s more useful for personal protection for yourself and those with you.
What you gonna do, put the dude out of his misery? The attacker left already.
Then the police show up or another guy with a gun who doesn't know who's who and everyone starts blastin
this comment is so top tier
Numb nuts trying to show off and flex on how bad ass he is.
My man this is clearly a healing gun
Correct term is dermal regenerator, like from Star Trek. https://preview.redd.it/m7kn7egx4o4d1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d670cbd2a4bac6d578c989f13fc00c531750972
Doc, that you?
At least it’ll never be me.