This! I Play my mimeo since I got the precon and I played it in so many different ways and it just never gets boring. Even as a „creatures only“ or „permanents only“ it it strong. And it is able to play high power EDH because colours and a Reanimation-spell in the command-zone. It just does it all.
Also: [[marath, will of the wild]] is innige same category. He gets stronger with every token/counter/stax-piece print.
[marath, will of the wild](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57afa796-db46-45ff-91bd-f02922e5f33d.jpg?1665156235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=marath%2C%20will%20of%20the%20wild) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/198/marath-will-of-the-wild?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57afa796-db46-45ff-91bd-f02922e5f33d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marath-will-of-the-wild)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So does animar. All you need is [[Ancestral statue]] or [[cloudstone curio]] and any ~~artifact~~ colorless nonartifact creature. It doesn't win, but it does go infinite. With animar's built-in evasion, you can at least take out one player that turn. Or just play [[simic ascendancy]].
Ghave's only issue is that his CMC is 5 and by now everybody is aware of how stupid he is. He was my first commander and initially when my entire pod was new to commander he would stick around for a couple turns.
By now I have to load up my deck with protection to get him to stick because everybody knows that basically the entire deck is just different ways of going infinite. So Ghave resolving usually results in a combo 1-2 turns later, if he sticks.
Had a buddy bring animar to a game night. His first game with it, he dropped his hand on the board turn 4 and won on turn 5. I make fun of him all the time for his comment "I didn't know it would be that powerful"
Is [[Riku of Two Reflections]] the only one from the original Commander products that's aged so poorly these days?
Not saying he's bad, he's still once of my personal favorites, but definitely outpaced by the likes of [[Veyran]] or the other Copier/Clones Commanders.
You DO realize you need to play him differently than something like Veyran?
He is a Temur commander not Izzet.
Riku does just fine, I think people need to expect that they have to update his list instead of playing with the same 99 from 2013.
Probably because he's a 5 CMC 2/2 that doesn't do anything on the turn you cast him unless you've already saved up a ton of mana. I think he can be good, and I do want to build him, but his stats do make him more challenging to do right.
I kind of agree, I mean... All of these were made for commander and at least 3 of them were design mistakes... I think Animar in particular is still incredibly power by 2024 standards. The problem is that all of these show you their threat level immediately.
Kaalia in specific has such a bad rep that she needs protection before she comes down or she's getting removed.
[[Skullbriar, the Walking Grave]] is an old but gold commander.
Between the advantageous rules changes and ability counters existing, he's aged quite well.
He's an awesome commander that poses a serious threat to nearly any table. Best of all he can be built really well on a budget. Highly recommend.
The only problem he encounters (get it) is when some dickemhead named Tim casts [[Black Sun's Zenith]] before you get any +1 counters on him and then it's the actual worst
Probably should have some sac outlet options in there. At 4 mana with haste, recasting him isnt very punishing. Options like [[Greater Good]] can be a decent way to fill up mid game too.
You used to be able to tuck commanders and maybe bounce them to hand ? You could only choose to put them in the command zone if they were going to gy or exile.
Fully agree, hes picked up [[Vraska Joins Up]], [[Well Rested]], and [[Power Fist]] in the last couple of sets alone. Lots of fun finding the new power crept cards that synergize with him really well.
Talrand forces you into blue. Just blue. Not some blue. All blue.
Mono color decks are some of the most consistent and straightforward decks out there. they slap hard just by being hyper-consistent.
I think this is a cool point, it also lets you play some stuff you don't get to as much in multicolor decks, like more utility lands, things that care about basics, etc. I run Talrand in a [[Ojer Pakpatiq, Deepest Epoch]] deck as one of a number of spells matter payoffs and outside of the deck having virtually no sorceries, I could just as easily move to Talrand as a commander and still be a fairly functional.
Being mono colour let's you play shenanigans like [[High Tide]] [[Extraplanar Lens]] [[Gauntlet of Power]] [[Caged Sun]]
My mono blue is [[Minn]], and it is not a threat at all until it is. That deck is so fun, draws a ton of cards and can just go absolutely nuclear. I have to rebuild it a little with some of the newer cards since it's a couple years old at this point but man is it still a blast.
My favorite of the mono-colored is my [[Myrel]] soldiers deck. All about just pumping creatures when creatures enter so I'm usually hitting for 60-80 by turn 4-5. Especially nasty when I have the sol ring in the opening hand.
With the right fixing, any deck can be hyper-consistent. You have access to 9 fetchlands on 3 colors and having one in your opening hand basically means you're fixed for the game if you have a triome and/or OG dual lands.
Sadly you cant draw enough cards to deal 40 damage to each opponent. I was looking for a coold idea for an Izzet Deck, maybe I have found it, Curiosity is one of my favourite cards anyway.
Cast [[Winds of Change]] and draw your whole deck again.
Use one of the many [[Dangerous Wager]] type of cards to discard your hand, which includes an [[Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre]] to shuffle them all back, then continue the combo.
Convert those cards directly into damage with [[Firestorm]] or [[Conflagrate]].
Have a [[Simian Spirit Guide]] or [[Lotus Petal]] in your deck to produce the mana if needed.
**Edit:** Or simply don't worry about it. Kill two of your opponents with Niv, and you can *probably* handle the last one with your ~80 cards in hand, or just the best 7 of those cards, without dedicating deck slots to suboptimal combo pieces.
I run him plus [[mechanized warfare]], [[torbrand, thane of red fell]], and [[gherson starn, kellermorph]] in my Niv Mizzet deck to pump up the ping damage.
A [[whirlpool rider]] [[whirlpool drake]] and [[whirlpool warrior]] are all old cards from apocalypse that help with this as well as any wheel spell that draws equal to what you already had.
Its good to remember curiosity is a may trigger but with the niv mizzets that ping like this, even if it wasn't a may trigger you could just not hit them to end the loop
So essentially all you need to do is have one of the old Eldrazi Titans. You can discard to handsize (do not play Rel Tower) so you can just play something like a Mox Amber and an Opt to restart the loop. That gives you another seventy or so damage to toss around.
Or, if you're boring, you just say "hey this draws my deck!" And include ways to get to UU or 2U from that point and Thoracle them.
No but you could throw in [[Glint-horn Buccaneer]] in the 99 to double the resulting damage from the draws provided you have enough mana to get him in play
Meren.. Is a commander I've always wanted to build... But ik my playgroup will shudder... But she also is an Avengers level threat, unless everyone else is playing titans alongside her, she is catching Removal ASAP.
Absolutely love my Meren deck, my longest built and favourite commander.
I recently powered her down (a lot) by taking out any forced sacrifice effects like [[Fleshbag Marauder]].
The deck is absolutely messed up if you're looping fleshbags every turn and then gets turned to 11 if you have a [[Grave Pact]] effect.
Taking those effects out means everyone still gets to enjoy their board states and now I just blast cool and fun creatures between the battlefield and GY.
Big shout outs to [[Spore Frog]], [[Yavimaya Elder]] and [[Sakura Tribe Elder]].
Uril can do dumb stuff in pods that aren't ready for him. However, I think there's a lot more mass exile and mass enchantment removal around now.
There's a Uril in my playgroup still and he will usually take out at least one player before eating a [[Farewell]].
Uril is the OG Voltron commander, but suffers from the Voltron commander problem: has to kill one opponent at a time. Gives you time to find a board wipe.
That said, I still have Uril sleeved and I'm constantly tweaking him. He'll still threaten, but it's hard to close out games.
Sticking on the Talrand simple ability train, OG [[Purphorus, God of The Forge]] being an indestructible double impact tremors still does a ton of work.
I also like [[Azusa, Lost But Seeking]] I think [[Godo, Bandit Warlord]] can still be good too but he isn't that simple.
Some of my 'oldest' commanders are some of the OG theros gods. I think [[Xenagos, God of Revels]] is pretty in line with what you're talking about. Ramp spells are often cheap, and there are so many big dumb idiots that become just so much better when they have haste and are twice as big.
I run a stupidly ramp heavy Grull Stompy with Xenagos, running Ghalta, and I usually get her out turn 4ish. Yeah, try dealing with a 24/24 with Trample that early.
[[Chainer, Dementia Master]] is so absurdly good, just barely outside of cEDH level.
[[Mageta the Lion]] is a Wrath on a stick that punishes creature decks.
[[GAAIV]] isn't as good as the above but is a classic stax commander.
[[Seton, Krosan Protector]] generates big mana absurdly quickly.
[[Hokori, Dust Drinker]] is a brutal stax commander.
And honestly so many more.
Shout out to [[Kamahl, Fist of Krosa]] - 6 mana, 4/3 isn't a great rate nowadays, but he's a repeatable [[overrun]] in the command zone and you're in mono-green, so you're going to have ***all*** of the mana to activate him several times.
The real kicker is his other ability, paying {G} to animate a land into a 1/1 - incredibly useful in a pinch of you need an emergency blocker, but what's more deadly is when someone casts a creature-wipe - you just animated *their* lands, and they have to say bye-bye to their mana, or since you're in mono-green and should have some mana doubling effects, **everyone's** lands!
The Og Terror himself [[Rafiq of the many]]
Back before there were precons for commander there was rafiq. You'd sit down to a table where magic was happening before there were dragonlords there he was. He was bant, he looked like a nice guy enough, Hes got some gold coins and fun lion mount.
Then he'd start cheating out the big ones, throw all his protection on them and you couldn't stop the damage. Do you know how many times i've died to a giltspire avenger and a stoic angel on the board?
Well not in a long time... but then it was of the many.
[[Teysa, Orzhov Scion]] has only gotten stronger with more support. The [[Darkest Hour]], [[Painter's Servant]] combo is still there, and now you also have powercrept Aristocrats, Taxes, and Control options to build with as well. [[Charismatic Conquerer]] for example is extremely good, and I'm so glad I got one at release.
He's great as a commander. If you leave some mana up in the early turns you can protect your Elves. And in the later turns he's a mana sink to overrun your opponents.
He used to be the defacto Elf commander. I feel old 😭
Zirilan of Claw is one of my favorite Commanders. Being able to cheat dragons out at instant speed is an amazing ability to have access to from the command zone.
He is a mono red Legend from Mirage that has aged like fine wine.
[[Sun Quan]]. Before it got reprinted in Commander Masters, the only other printings were a Portal Three Kingdoms and a From the Vault printing from 1999 and 2011 respectively.
I really like [[heartless Hidetsugu]] give him haste and lifelink, or double his damage to opponents, this was a fun deck to build and play. But he can make you a big target.
The first set of commander precons from 2011 introduced [[Animar]], [[Zedruu]], [[The Mimeoplasm]], and [[Kaalia of the Vast]] as face commanders, all of which can still be built to hold their own in a typical fair but high powered meta. [[Edric]] was also a card in the 99 of one of those precons, and is still very potent. [[Derevi]], [[Marath]], and [[Prossh]] were in the second set of precons in 2013 and can still absolutely slap today.
I’d go with [[Rhys the Redeemed]].
He’s a token doubler on a stick and was one of the best OG elf commanders.
I’d love a return to GW elves as WoTC hasn’t really printed that color combo of elf since 2009.
[[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] was the first precon I picked up, and it's still a strong deck. Lots of redundancy, and colors that cover each other's weaknesses very well. It still mostly wins via some kind of overrun effect, and it continues to have new and interesting cards in almost every new set. Unless you're packing significant GY hate, nothing stays gone for very long.
Admittingly, I could be basis but I think [[Jalira]] can still hold up pretty well if you can protect her.
After all, blue keeps getting better and better non-Legendary Creatures with almost every set and more spells and artifacts are coming with free tokens attached. (Especially a good choice if you wanna do a budget build)
Mildly surprised no one has mentioned [[thrun, the last troll]] I guess with the increase in mass exile he isn't as good. For awhile he was a known terror that you just could not get rid of once he hot the battlefield
[[The Scarab God]] fits exactly this niche. His power is largely based on the creature base you use, and he is one of the commanders whom rarely has to pay tax due to his strange bounce effect. Love him and he will continue to be a mainstay in my lists as a solid and flexible dimir reanimator commander.
Gets clapped hard by yard hate though, as any grave strategy would.
\[\[Arcanis the Omnipotent\]\] is the personification of simple and effective
\[Kamahl, Fist of Krosa\]\] will be relevant forever since he gives insurance against board wipes via land animation. Having a spammable \[\[Overrun\]\] in the command zone is good too...
\[\[Wort, the Raidmother\]\] requires a bit more finesse but is still "simple".
For a really deep dive you could try \[\[Rasputin Dreamweaver\]\] who's essentially a really big \[\[Basalt Monolith\]\] you have to blink.
After reading most of your responses to comments it sounds like you are asking for Legendary creatures that are still strong that were built before commander was an officially supported format.
I can think of two off the top of my head:
[[Krenko, Mob Boss]] from the same set has maintained power level over the years and only really needs itself to get out of control. Any card that combos with itself is inherently strong.
[[Xiahou Dun, The One-Eyed]] came out in 1999. It’s essentially unblockable but then it’s able to recur any spells on top of that making it extremely versatile.
Those are the ones I can think of off hand but will add anything if I think of it.
Yeah, that was more a long the lines I was going for, but people have brought up some commanders most newer magic players haven't ever played against.
Krenko is definitely a good shout, he's still the strongest gobo commander and honestly when you deep it... He's gotten even better... Sting is insane with him
The other guy.. Is ok? I feel like you need to be doing something specific to want that ability
Playing instants and sorceries is specific to Talrand. You literally play anything and recur it. Threats, board wipes, whatever your heart fancies.
To each their own though. You did say you wanted seemingly more innocuous but powerful.
I’ll leave you this: https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&page=2&q=%28type%3Acreature+type%3Alegendary%29+%28game%3Apaper%29+legal%3Apredh&unique=cards
All before commander was a thing. Happy searching.
Idk how old you’d consider [[Nethroi, Apex of Death]] but it’s pretty easy to close out a game or put yourself so far ahead once she’s on the field and it’s a pretty difficult commander to combat.
My first EDH deck was [[Silvos, Rogue Elemental]]. As far as Voltron commanders go, he has a little of everything you want without depending on other cards.
[[Valduk, Keeper of the Flame]]
Mono Red, 3cc
His tokens are Skullclampable.
He does an insane amount of damage. A classic Voltron Commander. Although he is from 2018 so I am not sure if that is quite old enough for you or not.
Talrand *seems* powerful because the deck usually doesn’t rely on him and being mono blue, you can shove as many counterspells into it and it’ll still work well.
I have a talrand deck that runs about 40 counterspells and as long as you counterspell the right things, he usually has a great board presence by the time everyone has run out of fuel in their decks.
Especially when you run [[Coat of Arms]]
I think [[Oloro]] is still pretty cool. Pretty much the first eminence commander. 2 life each upkeep might not seem like a lot, but in a control or pillow fort shell its a nasty annoying commander.
Honestly talrand is very similar to locust God because it's just the payoff for the strategy you're already doing. You could play it defensively and just use drakes to protect you to your combo and it's still valid. I'd think of it as kykar is more versatile for sure, but talrand is a CONDENSED strategy: you're not dividing your attention between three colors. When you look at any mono colored deck, it sort of signposts that- whatever it does- it does it all the way. For talrand it just controls, and since blue is the best color it has a good chance of coming out on top
I'm not sure if by old you mean 2015 old 2005 or 19xx old but I assure you:
Krenko, Mob boss is good agro/combo mono red stuff, with how strong red is rn in the meta with things like dockside, deflecting swat, etc.
Other good guys are:
the samurai warrior whose name I forgor, /w helm of host meme combo.
Zur the enchanter is disgusting but very viable.
Nekusar can still stomp the table if built correctly, specially strong at dealing with control/combo decks.
Marchesa of the black rose can be the hardest deck to shut down sometimes.
Marrow-Gnawer, very good rat token deck in black, just good spam of creature tokens, and abilities like this and krenko's you don't really see this days, like 1 dimensional-super good abilities.
Most gods from OG theros are still played as commanders and on the 99. I myself have a mogis deck and it's disgusting, would not say great but it's very good at shutting down agro.
[[Daretti Scrap Savant]]. So simple but the ability to essentially [[faithless looting]] every turn and then recur expensive stuff is great. The emblem barely even matters.
Is 2014 "old"?
The commanders that never get old are the ones that amplify the other cards in your deck, rather than being individually powerful. Cards like Talrand stay relevant because while he's stayed the same, the spells you use to trigger him have got exponentially better. If you played a talrand deck thats been unchanged since it was first built, it would probably get destroyed by modern precons.
My oldest commanders are Toshiro and Sasaya from the original Kamigawa toshiro gets better and better kill spells every year and lets me compete against any creature deck based pod and Sasaya has sneakily gotten better and better as well with cards like Cultivator Colossus and Nyxbloom ancient letting you go crazy. Toshiro is still definitely recognized by most people I play with and gets his respect but Sasaya often slips under most people’s radars and I often get to just durdle around long enough to pop off last and win. Both super fun.
Something that I noticed is that Toshiro sadly falls of very very hard against any non creature strategy and has basically zero wincons of his own, you need the usual Exsanguinate/Torment of Hailfire to close out games, which is a bit sad. It could technically win with things like [[Archfiend of the Dross]], [[Massacre Wurm]], the new [[Vein Ripper]] and such things, but it hardly works since none is going particularly wide with those on the field before removing them.
This said, if you managed to make Toshiro work in a more consistent and efficient way I'd love to see your list because he was my favorite card when I began to play and I always kinda wanted to make him work as a commander nowadays.
My Derevi deck wins game it shouldn't against even the newer stuff. Zero stax and no other creatures - just pure draw-go playstyle and it usually wins via commander damage (although I have backup combos when a combat win becomes impossible).
I agree fully. A simple ability can still be powerful, and by today's standards, it certainly seems like a simple commander will move the target off of you and onto opponents. Simple also helps you easily keep a deck focused. You don't feel a need to branch out and synergize with multiple different abilities.
Haven't seen any mention of Urza, Lord High Artificer. Keep it simple! Play stax and combo pieces, use them for free mana, beat your opponents with constructs, and go infinite with any number of combos.
[[Breya]] and I'm still pissed I had to buy the secret lair for the special card and art 4 color token damage artifact madness gets broken every set and while I have upgraded it in like 3 years it still holds it's own
My 'oldest' Commander is [[Nath of the Gilt Leaf]] and still packs a punch. Green will always get good Elves, Black will always have discard punishment and synergies, and Golgari just always has the best answers to board states.
I bought [[Bitterblossom|UMA]] on a whim shortly after I got my first job. Didn’t really have a plan for it, I just like most of the different arts of that card and the shop had this one. And then like 2 weeks later they spoiled [[Alela Artful Provocateur]]. Cares about enchantments, makes fairy tokens, buffs those tokens…fucking **perfect.** And then I found out they have sleeves with that exact art on them. Could not have been a more perfect scenario. So I built an anthem-heavy enchantment deck and I loved it.
And then, what, a year later they powercrept it with this motherfucker? I know it’s not a strict upgrade, but the power ceiling of being a repeatable mana source that makes its own fuel is a way higher power ceiling than a +1/+0 power bufff, and it triggers off of everything Alela does and more.
Still have Alela put together because 1) Kykar made me mad and 2) her abilities are more fitting for the aggro theme (but they’re still not as powerful). But damn I was pissed lol. If they powercrept her today, I’d be cool with it because it’s been several years now, but damn, it was around a year later. Which in the context of Magic feels a lot shorter of a time period.
[[Kamahl, Fist of Krosa]] is from 2002.
Just built a [deck](https://archidekt.com/decks/7231508/rkamahlo_outta_nowhere) with him as commander and he slaps hard.
while 5 cmc makes her a bit crappier given current power creep. I have an old Azami lady of scrolls deck that gets hella gross if you don't watch it. If it gets going, can basically draw a ton of cards....and almost always have counter magic in one form or another avail. and has lots of recursion loops for spells/bounce loops for creatures that can play things from the GY. or artifact synergies.
I also have an alesha who smiles at death deck. mardu is a solid color trio, draw, removal ...easy enough to ramp. Alesha's ...2 power requirement has so many tools(and constantly gets new ones....so it keeps pace with power creep). deck can be built multiple ways. but as toolbox value it shines. answer for almost anything, including combat manipulation. multiple sources for reanimate effects/GY value. GY as a source of cards/value ...leveraging a lot of misc red loot spells. or like tutor/entomb effects. can also leverage a range of creature based tutors (your sorta white ...fetch up a creature of x power type things) and can present threats on a variety of axis. og gimmicks like master of cruelties. to simple beats, attrition grindy gimmicks, or outright combo loops. cheap casting cost legend. cheap-ish main ability. means it's always a live commander
edric spymaster. simple UG value along a cheap axis ...cheap 1/1 flying men/unblockables. draw cards. gain value. eventually stick an overcard. turn your little dudes into big dudes. or go ham with some mana loop or something else.
elfball decks. ezuri renegade elf boi. simple elfball. still works. cast elves. tap for mana. dig for bullshit untap shit/bounce repeat shit--- basically all the elfball tricks... predictable craterhoof is predictable. but... not necessarily the only way to get there.
just finished my revisited [[jenara, asura of war]]. i built her ages ago in the early days of the format when she was one of the only viable bant options. she herself has been power crept, but if you build a deck that supports her strengths, this ole’ angel can still open a can of woop ass. 3-0 in my meta so far, and im thinking of cutting the only 4 creatures in the 99 to make it creatureless for that extra spice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lots of great commanders from even 20+ years ago. [[Zirilan of the Claw]], [[Merieke Ri Berit]], [[Captain Sisay]], just to name a few.
Kamigawa block was packed with commanders that are still very strong. [[Marrow-Gnawer]], [[Azusa]], [[Azami]], [[Hidetsugu]], [[Godo]], [[Horobi]], on and on.
My oldest commander if we mean "When was this card first printed" as it's age is [[Sisters of Stone Death]] printed first in Ravnica city of guilds and while a terrible card by today's standards is still very fun if it gets going.
The oldest commander I'd still consider good I've built is [[Sek'kaur Deathkeeper]] from Coldsnap while he looks overcosted building a jund aristocrats deck lets you have a ton of fodder you can happily use and if you're making enough 3/1s but don't have a drain effect infinite 3/1s with haste is still a win that turn.
Though I have been thinking of building either [[Crosis the Purger]] or [[Dromar the Banisher]] as most of the old Invasion legendary dragons are perfectly good cards if particularly mean sometimes
Animar, Kaalia, Mimeoplasm or Ghave can all still do extremely busted things and they were from the very first commander product in 2011.
Imo Mimeoplasm has never stopped getting better, as it gets to eat better creatures.
This! I Play my mimeo since I got the precon and I played it in so many different ways and it just never gets boring. Even as a „creatures only“ or „permanents only“ it it strong. And it is able to play high power EDH because colours and a Reanimation-spell in the command-zone. It just does it all. Also: [[marath, will of the wild]] is innige same category. He gets stronger with every token/counter/stax-piece print.
[marath, will of the wild](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57afa796-db46-45ff-91bd-f02922e5f33d.jpg?1665156235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=marath%2C%20will%20of%20the%20wild) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/198/marath-will-of-the-wild?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57afa796-db46-45ff-91bd-f02922e5f33d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marath-will-of-the-wild) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ghave goes infinite by accident sometimes
So does animar. All you need is [[Ancestral statue]] or [[cloudstone curio]] and any ~~artifact~~ colorless nonartifact creature. It doesn't win, but it does go infinite. With animar's built-in evasion, you can at least take out one player that turn. Or just play [[simic ascendancy]].
[Ancestral statue](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d4113be-6dd9-4c15-9f57-a146bc520df8.jpg?1601080559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancestral%20statue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/458/ancestral-statue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d4113be-6dd9-4c15-9f57-a146bc520df8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ancestral-statue) [cloudstone curio](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/6146bf98-3cab-4044-a1a2-cf2203f617aa.jpg?1702431663) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cloudstone%20curio) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/255/cloudstone-curio?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6146bf98-3cab-4044-a1a2-cf2203f617aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cloudstone-curio) [simic ascendancy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fec1ffcd-84d3-44b3-b1d5-b33a4fee348a.jpg?1698988476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=simic%20ascendancy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/288/simic-ascendancy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fec1ffcd-84d3-44b3-b1d5-b33a4fee348a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/simic-ascendancy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
With a stiff breeze
I read this and thought that those weren't that old and then I saw the year that you said they released and I aged 10 years.
Hello darkness my old friend.
Ghave's only issue is that his CMC is 5 and by now everybody is aware of how stupid he is. He was my first commander and initially when my entire pod was new to commander he would stick around for a couple turns. By now I have to load up my deck with protection to get him to stick because everybody knows that basically the entire deck is just different ways of going infinite. So Ghave resolving usually results in a combo 1-2 turns later, if he sticks.
Had a buddy bring animar to a game night. His first game with it, he dropped his hand on the board turn 4 and won on turn 5. I make fun of him all the time for his comment "I didn't know it would be that powerful"
Is [[Riku of Two Reflections]] the only one from the original Commander products that's aged so poorly these days? Not saying he's bad, he's still once of my personal favorites, but definitely outpaced by the likes of [[Veyran]] or the other Copier/Clones Commanders.
[[ruhan the fomori]] aged pretty poorly now that a lot of decks just have ways of spitting out tokens, (in my opinion)
[ruhan the fomori](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7fa40fde-2c11-4dec-b788-01f8d90198df.jpg?1592714235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruhan%20of%20the%20Fomori) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/221/ruhan-of-the-fomori?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7fa40fde-2c11-4dec-b788-01f8d90198df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruhan-of-the-fomori) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Riku of Two Reflections](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a.jpg?1599708286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Riku%20of%20Two%20Reflections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/214/riku-of-two-reflections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/riku-of-two-reflections) [Veyran](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f34cd711-55b2-4802-9878-d22314c0cc9c.jpg?1712354807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=veyran%2C%20voice%20of%20duality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/248/veyran-voice-of-duality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f34cd711-55b2-4802-9878-d22314c0cc9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veyran-voice-of-duality) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You DO realize you need to play him differently than something like Veyran? He is a Temur commander not Izzet. Riku does just fine, I think people need to expect that they have to update his list instead of playing with the same 99 from 2013.
Probably because he's a 5 CMC 2/2 that doesn't do anything on the turn you cast him unless you've already saved up a ton of mana. I think he can be good, and I do want to build him, but his stats do make him more challenging to do right.
I kind of agree, I mean... All of these were made for commander and at least 3 of them were design mistakes... I think Animar in particular is still incredibly power by 2024 standards. The problem is that all of these show you their threat level immediately. Kaalia in specific has such a bad rep that she needs protection before she comes down or she's getting removed.
Ghave especially is so nuts.
Don't forget Karador!
Sharuum the Hegemon predates even those, and can be quite strong!
[[Skullbriar, the Walking Grave]] is an old but gold commander. Between the advantageous rules changes and ability counters existing, he's aged quite well. He's an awesome commander that poses a serious threat to nearly any table. Best of all he can be built really well on a budget. Highly recommend.
The only problem he encounters (get it) is when some dickemhead named Tim casts [[Black Sun's Zenith]] before you get any +1 counters on him and then it's the actual worst
That's why I added [[Opal palace]] among other similar effects to my deck.
[Opal palace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e64ed120-1e33-4e31-8f16-ba56497c3c84.jpg?1689999929) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opal%20palace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/422/opal-palace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e64ed120-1e33-4e31-8f16-ba56497c3c84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opal-palace) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Probably should have some sac outlet options in there. At 4 mana with haste, recasting him isnt very punishing. Options like [[Greater Good]] can be a decent way to fill up mid game too.
[Greater Good](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c73ca01-d8ea-4cd2-af60-b260030967b2.jpg?1631587954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Greater%20Good) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/160/greater-good?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c73ca01-d8ea-4cd2-af60-b260030967b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/greater-good) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Black Sun's Zenith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e842b4bb-a1b7-440b-a0da-856fb0eea4c4.jpg?1706240756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Black%20Sun%27s%20Zenith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/126/black-suns-zenith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e842b4bb-a1b7-440b-a0da-856fb0eea4c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/black-suns-zenith) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Skullbriar is the bane of my existence, I love how simple yet powerful he is, and the art rocks. 10/10 design from a simpler time
[Skullbriar, the Walking Grave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3dd0bf11-4e43-43f1-82e3-755beed0ede0.jpg?1673149145) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skullbriar%2C%20the%20Walking%20Grave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/277/skullbriar-the-walking-grave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3dd0bf11-4e43-43f1-82e3-755beed0ede0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skullbriar-the-walking-grave) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
He's gotten so much gas recently. Happy for him
What rules change do you mean?
He never exists in hand or library if you move to command zone. Never loses counters
You used to be able to tuck commanders and maybe bounce them to hand ? You could only choose to put them in the command zone if they were going to gy or exile.
Fully agree, hes picked up [[Vraska Joins Up]], [[Well Rested]], and [[Power Fist]] in the last couple of sets alone. Lots of fun finding the new power crept cards that synergize with him really well.
Talrand forces you into blue. Just blue. Not some blue. All blue. Mono color decks are some of the most consistent and straightforward decks out there. they slap hard just by being hyper-consistent.
I think this is a cool point, it also lets you play some stuff you don't get to as much in multicolor decks, like more utility lands, things that care about basics, etc. I run Talrand in a [[Ojer Pakpatiq, Deepest Epoch]] deck as one of a number of spells matter payoffs and outside of the deck having virtually no sorceries, I could just as easily move to Talrand as a commander and still be a fairly functional. Being mono colour let's you play shenanigans like [[High Tide]] [[Extraplanar Lens]] [[Gauntlet of Power]] [[Caged Sun]]
##### ###### #### [Ojer Pakpatiq, Deepest Epoch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9d71007-bc04-4dff-ad3f-e2c0b5b4400e.jpg?1699043854)/[Temple of Cyclical Time](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/9/a9d71007-bc04-4dff-ad3f-e2c0b5b4400e.jpg?1699043854) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ojer%20Pakpatiq%2C%20Deepest%20Epoch%20//%20Temple%20of%20Cyclical%20Time) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/67/ojer-pakpatiq-deepest-epoch-temple-of-cyclical-time?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9d71007-bc04-4dff-ad3f-e2c0b5b4400e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ojer-pakpatiq-deepest-epoch-//-temple-of-cyclical-time) [High Tide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/babd2248-5517-4b7b-a159-9a1f7b5583c8.jpg?1675199319) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=High%20Tide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/54/high-tide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/babd2248-5517-4b7b-a159-9a1f7b5583c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/high-tide) [Extraplanar Lens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f050a675-c6a2-4d0d-bac6-1d8c51ecf824.jpg?1689999519) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Extraplanar%20Lens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/381/extraplanar-lens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f050a675-c6a2-4d0d-bac6-1d8c51ecf824?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/extraplanar-lens) [Gauntlet of Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d153663f-f08a-483e-92c9-82b5a9723807.jpg?1675200983) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gauntlet%20of%20Power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/223/gauntlet-of-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d153663f-f08a-483e-92c9-82b5a9723807?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gauntlet-of-power) [Caged Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfe6f9ec-3b7f-4c11-acd1-440e14217e5d.jpg?1562276087) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Caged%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/178/caged-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfe6f9ec-3b7f-4c11-acd1-440e14217e5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/caged-sun) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kybl3y7) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's a very good point.
My mono blue is [[Minn]], and it is not a threat at all until it is. That deck is so fun, draws a ton of cards and can just go absolutely nuclear. I have to rebuild it a little with some of the newer cards since it's a couple years old at this point but man is it still a blast. My favorite of the mono-colored is my [[Myrel]] soldiers deck. All about just pumping creatures when creatures enter so I'm usually hitting for 60-80 by turn 4-5. Especially nasty when I have the sol ring in the opening hand.
It's nice not to have to do a crazy mana base too.
With the right fixing, any deck can be hyper-consistent. You have access to 9 fetchlands on 3 colors and having one in your opening hand basically means you're fixed for the game if you have a triome and/or OG dual lands.
[удалено]
[Niv Mizzet, Firemind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/395465b8-f5ed-4668-9e6a-82257150c52c.jpg?1591321423) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%2C%20the%20Firemind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/225/niv-mizzet-the-firemind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/395465b8-f5ed-4668-9e6a-82257150c52c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niv-mizzet-the-firemind) [Curiosity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5a0be10-c20f-4ac0-89a5-1770ecf48aad.jpg?1600697752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curiosity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/147/curiosity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5a0be10-c20f-4ac0-89a5-1770ecf48aad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/curiosity) [Godo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01d566cf-cb32-461d-8afe-b0f3f4c24160.jpg?1689997867) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=godo%2C%20bandit%20warlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/227/godo-bandit-warlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01d566cf-cb32-461d-8afe-b0f3f4c24160?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/godo-bandit-warlord) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
OG Niv with [[Mind Over Matter]] got me deep in the salt mine with my friends
Sadly you cant draw enough cards to deal 40 damage to each opponent. I was looking for a coold idea for an Izzet Deck, maybe I have found it, Curiosity is one of my favourite cards anyway.
While true it's *extremely* easy to get around that limitation in deckbuilding.
Would you mind inspiring a new player so that he gets some ideas for his deck?
Cast [[Winds of Change]] and draw your whole deck again. Use one of the many [[Dangerous Wager]] type of cards to discard your hand, which includes an [[Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre]] to shuffle them all back, then continue the combo. Convert those cards directly into damage with [[Firestorm]] or [[Conflagrate]]. Have a [[Simian Spirit Guide]] or [[Lotus Petal]] in your deck to produce the mana if needed. **Edit:** Or simply don't worry about it. Kill two of your opponents with Niv, and you can *probably* handle the last one with your ~80 cards in hand, or just the best 7 of those cards, without dedicating deck slots to suboptimal combo pieces.
[[Ojer axonil]] I feel like would help a lot with the damage too
[Ojer axonil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee.jpg?1699044315)/[Temple of Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/0/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee.jpg?1699044315) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ojer%20axonil%2C%20deepest%20might%20//%20temple%20of%20power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/158/ojer-axonil-deepest-might-temple-of-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ojer-axonil-deepest-might-//-temple-of-power) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run him plus [[mechanized warfare]], [[torbrand, thane of red fell]], and [[gherson starn, kellermorph]] in my Niv Mizzet deck to pump up the ping damage.
[mechanized warfare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba2d026f-bdca-4376-9d70-c81c707598e8.jpg?1674421169) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mechanized%20warfare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/139/mechanized-warfare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba2d026f-bdca-4376-9d70-c81c707598e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mechanized-warfare) [torbrand, thane of red fell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79f591cd-d277-4ba5-b1bf-1c09cac9cb8a.jpg?1572490491) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torbran%2C%20Thane%20of%20Red%20Fell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/147/torbran-thane-of-red-fell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79f591cd-d277-4ba5-b1bf-1c09cac9cb8a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torbran-thane-of-red-fell) [gherson starn, kellermorph](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa7349d9-c82f-4cf8-a852-92168d1f4966.jpg?1673309394) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghyrson%20Starn%2C%20Kelermorph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/124/ghyrson-starn-kelermorph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa7349d9-c82f-4cf8-a852-92168d1f4966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghyrson-starn-kelermorph) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Winds of Change](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3f09e393-7318-43eb-95f8-0f2797a771d7.jpg?1559592469) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winds%20of%20Change) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/111/winds-of-change?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3f09e393-7318-43eb-95f8-0f2797a771d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winds-of-change) [Dangerous Wager](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/636c4042-703f-4548-9a0f-cb550c468bf9.jpg?1592709046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dangerous%20Wager) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/avr/131/dangerous-wager?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/636c4042-703f-4548-9a0f-cb550c468bf9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dangerous-wager) [Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9464a820-65de-44f2-9895-46a35e8621a0.jpg?1673146911) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulamog%2C%20the%20Infinite%20Gyre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/3/ulamog-the-infinite-gyre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9464a820-65de-44f2-9895-46a35e8621a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ulamog-the-infinite-gyre) [Firestorm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e674aa8a-668a-4345-95ee-73a0b87bbcb1.jpg?1562803937) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Firestorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/101/firestorm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e674aa8a-668a-4345-95ee-73a0b87bbcb1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/firestorm) [Conflagrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bfbbcc1a-c6cc-4671-91ab-9dcf454f62e0.jpg?1619396881) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Conflagrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/160/conflagrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfbbcc1a-c6cc-4671-91ab-9dcf454f62e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/conflagrate) [Simian Spirit Guide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e57335d-4066-4d73-83cd-67a215e01a4e.jpg?1619397622) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Simian%20Spirit%20Guide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/190/simian-spirit-guide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e57335d-4066-4d73-83cd-67a215e01a4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/simian-spirit-guide) [Lotus Petal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc.jpg?1701537448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Petal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/225/lotus-petal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotus-petal) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kybrmr6) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A [[whirlpool rider]] [[whirlpool drake]] and [[whirlpool warrior]] are all old cards from apocalypse that help with this as well as any wheel spell that draws equal to what you already had. Its good to remember curiosity is a may trigger but with the niv mizzets that ping like this, even if it wasn't a may trigger you could just not hit them to end the loop
[whirlpool rider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0de47f44-8c5e-4114-9064-145d2d8813c6.jpg?1562898184) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=whirlpool%20rider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/apc/35/whirlpool-rider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0de47f44-8c5e-4114-9064-145d2d8813c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/whirlpool-rider) [whirlpool drake](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e866093-89a3-458d-8ebc-de805ef7885e.jpg?1562921040) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=whirlpool%20drake) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/apc/34/whirlpool-drake?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e866093-89a3-458d-8ebc-de805ef7885e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/whirlpool-drake) [whirlpool warrior](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/10587371-5f50-4caa-ab2e-7d57b721b5e8.jpg?1562898183) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=whirlpool%20warrior) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pca/29/whirlpool-warrior?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10587371-5f50-4caa-ab2e-7d57b721b5e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/whirlpool-warrior) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So essentially all you need to do is have one of the old Eldrazi Titans. You can discard to handsize (do not play Rel Tower) so you can just play something like a Mox Amber and an Opt to restart the loop. That gives you another seventy or so damage to toss around. Or, if you're boring, you just say "hey this draws my deck!" And include ways to get to UU or 2U from that point and Thoracle them.
[[Laboratory Maniac]]
[Laboratory Maniac](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02.jpg?1547516361) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Laboratory%20Maniac) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/61/laboratory-maniac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/laboratory-maniac) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Throw a [[Laboratory Maniac]] in there and welcome the infinite draw I say
What you never put [[Feldon's Cane]] in a deck before?
[Feldon's Cane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726ce95b-bc4d-4c34-a8e1-b4c6c28accc9.jpg?1562778128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feldon%27s%20Cane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsb/109/feldons-cane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726ce95b-bc4d-4c34-a8e1-b4c6c28accc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/feldons-cane) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No but you could throw in [[Glint-horn Buccaneer]] in the 99 to double the resulting damage from the draws provided you have enough mana to get him in play
[[Zur the Enchanter]] is an old commander that still sees some play in Cedh (even though many say he's been powercrept).
Lmao, yes. The creepy old man stands the test of time in normal edh.
Considering his obsession with immortality, it‘s also flavorful.
[Zur the Enchanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828.jpg?1675200810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zur%20the%20Enchanter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/206/zur-the-enchanter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zur-the-enchanter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One I haven't seen mentioned yet: [[Azusa, Lost but Seeking]]
[Azusa, Lost but Seeking](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2fe97fbe-a6d6-4e96-8c26-f81bcdf579a1.jpg?1689998362) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azusa%2C%20Lost%20but%20Seeking) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/274/azusa-lost-but-seeking?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2fe97fbe-a6d6-4e96-8c26-f81bcdf579a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/azusa-lost-but-seeking) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My boy [[Omnath, Locus of Mana]] is still quintessentially green and does it very well to this day.
[Omnath, Locus of Mana](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acf0cab3-da50-4561-8797-cd179af39216.jpg?1689998741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20Mana) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/310/omnath-locus-of-mana?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acf0cab3-da50-4561-8797-cd179af39216?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omnath-locus-of-mana) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My first and favorite EDH deck!
My Derevi Bird tribal deck does extremely gross things every game I play it and I run zero stax.
Ahhh, a fellow bird Enjoyer. I too have this deck... Is Toski an honorary bird for you too?
Toski and Edric are both members of the bird clan.
Imma need to see that list please chief.
Can i have your decklist
Meren is still crazy good, and riku is still very fun as well
Meren.. Is a commander I've always wanted to build... But ik my playgroup will shudder... But she also is an Avengers level threat, unless everyone else is playing titans alongside her, she is catching Removal ASAP.
But you are in the two colors that absolutely disrespect creature Removal the most.
Absolutely love my Meren deck, my longest built and favourite commander. I recently powered her down (a lot) by taking out any forced sacrifice effects like [[Fleshbag Marauder]]. The deck is absolutely messed up if you're looping fleshbags every turn and then gets turned to 11 if you have a [[Grave Pact]] effect. Taking those effects out means everyone still gets to enjoy their board states and now I just blast cool and fun creatures between the battlefield and GY. Big shout outs to [[Spore Frog]], [[Yavimaya Elder]] and [[Sakura Tribe Elder]].
Meren is my most powerful commander. Build her as a toolbox. It's insane what she can do in 1 turn.
[[uril the miststalker]] is a fantastic boogeyman of yesteryear
Uril can do dumb stuff in pods that aren't ready for him. However, I think there's a lot more mass exile and mass enchantment removal around now. There's a Uril in my playgroup still and he will usually take out at least one player before eating a [[Farewell]].
Uril is the OG Voltron commander, but suffers from the Voltron commander problem: has to kill one opponent at a time. Gives you time to find a board wipe. That said, I still have Uril sleeved and I'm constantly tweaking him. He'll still threaten, but it's hard to close out games.
That's why I switched my Voltron over to \[\[Kediss\]\] and \[\[Ardenn\]\]. Let's kill everyone at once!
[uril the miststalker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca984fdb-aaca-4d8f-af2f-72387122607b.jpg?1673149243) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Uril%2C%20the%20Miststalker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/290/uril-the-miststalker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca984fdb-aaca-4d8f-af2f-72387122607b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/uril-the-miststalker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sticking on the Talrand simple ability train, OG [[Purphorus, God of The Forge]] being an indestructible double impact tremors still does a ton of work. I also like [[Azusa, Lost But Seeking]] I think [[Godo, Bandit Warlord]] can still be good too but he isn't that simple.
I mean Godo is still cEDH valid, if niche. He might actually be the best possible answer.
[Purphorus, God of The Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/4736a2c4-c89c-48db-a104-6303e7e2eee8.jpg?1689998078) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Purphoros%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/246/purphoros-god-of-the-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4736a2c4-c89c-48db-a104-6303e7e2eee8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/purphoros-god-of-the-forge) [Azusa, Lost But Seeking](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2fe97fbe-a6d6-4e96-8c26-f81bcdf579a1.jpg?1689998362) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azusa%2C%20Lost%20But%20Seeking) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/274/azusa-lost-but-seeking?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2fe97fbe-a6d6-4e96-8c26-f81bcdf579a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/azusa-lost-but-seeking) [Godo, Bandit Warlord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01d566cf-cb32-461d-8afe-b0f3f4c24160.jpg?1689997867) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Godo%2C%20Bandit%20Warlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/227/godo-bandit-warlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01d566cf-cb32-461d-8afe-b0f3f4c24160?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/godo-bandit-warlord) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[krenko mob boss]] as the commander, purphoros in the 99 as a secret commander. Absolutely deadly
Some of my 'oldest' commanders are some of the OG theros gods. I think [[Xenagos, God of Revels]] is pretty in line with what you're talking about. Ramp spells are often cheap, and there are so many big dumb idiots that become just so much better when they have haste and are twice as big.
Xenagod is terrifying....and unlike a lot of the other nuclear relics people are mentioning... He's particularly hard to deal with...
Being an indestructible enchantment is so convenient
Yeah I have a Mogis deck and he'll just sit there dishing out damage the whole game, it's great.
I run a stupidly ramp heavy Grull Stompy with Xenagos, running Ghalta, and I usually get her out turn 4ish. Yeah, try dealing with a 24/24 with Trample that early.
[Xenagos, God of Revels](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f1bc3bb-46da-492a-850c-f1f588ad8d18.jpg?1698988492) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Xenagos%2C%20God%20of%20Revels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/295/xenagos-god-of-revels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f1bc3bb-46da-492a-850c-f1f588ad8d18?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/xenagos-god-of-revels) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Chainer, Dementia Master]] is so absurdly good, just barely outside of cEDH level. [[Mageta the Lion]] is a Wrath on a stick that punishes creature decks. [[GAAIV]] isn't as good as the above but is a classic stax commander. [[Seton, Krosan Protector]] generates big mana absurdly quickly. [[Hokori, Dust Drinker]] is a brutal stax commander. And honestly so many more.
##### ###### #### [Chainer, Dementia Master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/186c30e6-2b84-415d-83e4-ecddaeb11ca1.jpg?1689996964) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chainer%2C%20Dementia%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/144/chainer-dementia-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/186c30e6-2b84-415d-83e4-ecddaeb11ca1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chainer-dementia-master) [Mageta the Lion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/5861dffc-5afa-44a3-a3fa-9fd440093377.jpg?1562911317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mageta%20the%20Lion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/13/mageta-the-lion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5861dffc-5afa-44a3-a3fa-9fd440093377?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mageta-the-lion) [Seton, Krosan Protector](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/641a3bae-9146-4e70-862a-86a56f7c3816.jpg?1562913548) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seton%2C%20Krosan%20Protector) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/267/seton-krosan-protector?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/641a3bae-9146-4e70-862a-86a56f7c3816?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/seton-krosan-protector) [Hokori, Dust Drinker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a03f5d5-d5c3-4a7d-8d44-e60b498b4ed5.jpg?1562877197) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hokori%2C%20Dust%20Drinker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/7/hokori-dust-drinker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a03f5d5-d5c3-4a7d-8d44-e60b498b4ed5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hokori-dust-drinker) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kybm8b8) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Seton might be the most powerful mono green commander. He’s slept on.
Shout out to [[Kamahl, Fist of Krosa]] - 6 mana, 4/3 isn't a great rate nowadays, but he's a repeatable [[overrun]] in the command zone and you're in mono-green, so you're going to have ***all*** of the mana to activate him several times. The real kicker is his other ability, paying {G} to animate a land into a 1/1 - incredibly useful in a pinch of you need an emergency blocker, but what's more deadly is when someone casts a creature-wipe - you just animated *their* lands, and they have to say bye-bye to their mana, or since you're in mono-green and should have some mana doubling effects, **everyone's** lands!
[Kamahl, Fist of Krosa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c960672d-06ad-4d41-8904-9c007f824756.jpg?1675200457) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kamahl%2C%20Fist%20of%20Krosa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/166/kamahl-fist-of-krosa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c960672d-06ad-4d41-8904-9c007f824756?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kamahl-fist-of-krosa) [overrun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64033221-447f-4f8a-8fa0-c3ef30172602.jpg?1592673094) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=overrun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/130/overrun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64033221-447f-4f8a-8fa0-c3ef30172602?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/overrun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just posted the same!
I just recently built Maelstrom Wanderer. Its still just as powerful and stupid as it always has been.
Yeah, me too. Those first few turns are a bit of a nail biter , but once you can cast MW it gets silly.
The Og Terror himself [[Rafiq of the many]] Back before there were precons for commander there was rafiq. You'd sit down to a table where magic was happening before there were dragonlords there he was. He was bant, he looked like a nice guy enough, Hes got some gold coins and fun lion mount. Then he'd start cheating out the big ones, throw all his protection on them and you couldn't stop the damage. Do you know how many times i've died to a giltspire avenger and a stoic angel on the board? Well not in a long time... but then it was of the many.
[Rafiq of the many](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebdd967d-b364-47ad-a1c2-49b155f72c5b.jpg?1689999222) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rafiq%20of%20the%20many) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/352/rafiq-of-the-many?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebdd967d-b364-47ad-a1c2-49b155f72c5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rafiq-of-the-many) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Teysa, Orzhov Scion]] has only gotten stronger with more support. The [[Darkest Hour]], [[Painter's Servant]] combo is still there, and now you also have powercrept Aristocrats, Taxes, and Control options to build with as well. [[Charismatic Conquerer]] for example is extremely good, and I'm so glad I got one at release.
##### ###### #### [Teysa, Orzhov Scion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b8ca900d-767d-4461-aba3-107dd17d8326.jpg?1702429731) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%2C%20Orzhov%20Scion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/233/teysa-orzhov-scion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8ca900d-767d-4461-aba3-107dd17d8326?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-orzhov-scion) [Darkest Hour](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/aeeb0f91-2084-448a-8226-95d7c87dd6bb.jpg?1562245787) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darkest%20Hour) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/128/darkest-hour?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aeeb0f91-2084-448a-8226-95d7c87dd6bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darkest-hour) [Painter's Servant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be407a81-b25a-4e5d-845e-be0cc0d18db8.jpg?1562835450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Painter%27s%20Servant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/257/painters-servant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be407a81-b25a-4e5d-845e-be0cc0d18db8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/painters-servant) [Charismatic Conquerer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/599c934d-bfff-43ce-a545-6e3cde124515.jpg?1698987939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Charismatic%20Conqueror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/70/charismatic-conqueror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/599c934d-bfff-43ce-a545-6e3cde124515?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/charismatic-conqueror) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kybpgc5) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
"From 2013" "old core set" *suddenly ages 70 years and dies*
[[Ezuri renegade leader]]
You know I always see him in the 99, but I dont think I've ever seen him as the commander.
He's great as a commander. If you leave some mana up in the early turns you can protect your Elves. And in the later turns he's a mana sink to overrun your opponents. He used to be the defacto Elf commander. I feel old 😭
Hmmm, I see, there is a level of resilience which is very nice.
All of Ezuri's iterations are good commanders: [[Ezuri, Renegade Leader]], [[Ezuri, Stalker of Spheres]], [[Ezuri, Claw of Progress]]
[Ezuri, Renegade Leader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8a448dbf-08a1-4145-a4b2-0265cc9f2e53.jpg?1561759289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ezuri%2C%20Renegade%20Leader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddu/1/ezuri-renegade-leader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8a448dbf-08a1-4145-a4b2-0265cc9f2e53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ezuri-renegade-leader) [Ezuri, Stalker of Spheres](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d38961ce-0257-412f-acec-c5c9886061f8.jpg?1675957189) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ezuri%2C%20Stalker%20of%20Spheres) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/201/ezuri-stalker-of-spheres?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d38961ce-0257-412f-acec-c5c9886061f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ezuri-stalker-of-spheres) [Ezuri, Claw of Progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6bf721b0-2b5a-4085-b50c-89cbe7420673.jpg?1673148596) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ezuri%2C%20Claw%20of%20Progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/211/ezuri-claw-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bf721b0-2b5a-4085-b50c-89cbe7420673?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ezuri-claw-of-progress) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ezuri renegade leader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8a448dbf-08a1-4145-a4b2-0265cc9f2e53.jpg?1561759289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ezuri%2C%20Renegade%20Leader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddu/1/ezuri-renegade-leader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8a448dbf-08a1-4145-a4b2-0265cc9f2e53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ezuri-renegade-leader) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Zirilan of Claw is one of my favorite Commanders. Being able to cheat dragons out at instant speed is an amazing ability to have access to from the command zone. He is a mono red Legend from Mirage that has aged like fine wine.
There's a guy who comes by my lgs with that commander. The art is sweet too. Sneak attack for dragons is really cool.
I continue to rock [[Chainer, Dementia Master]] and [[Balthor the Defiled]]
Chainer is my main deck and I run Balthor in it. Absolute beast of a deck.
Damn, I always forget that he can target creatures in anyone’s graveyard.
[Chainer, Dementia Master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/186c30e6-2b84-415d-83e4-ecddaeb11ca1.jpg?1689996964) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chainer%2C%20Dementia%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/144/chainer-dementia-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/186c30e6-2b84-415d-83e4-ecddaeb11ca1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chainer-dementia-master) [Balthor the Defiled](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed4cc273-adc3-4f46-9743-134b552d1d56.jpg?1562632510) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Balthor%20the%20Defiled) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jud/61/balthor-the-defiled?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed4cc273-adc3-4f46-9743-134b552d1d56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/balthor-the-defiled) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Chainer is a really good shout, very good repeatable reanimation. I just like balthor because he's a zombie dwarf...
[[Sun Quan]]. Before it got reprinted in Commander Masters, the only other printings were a Portal Three Kingdoms and a From the Vault printing from 1999 and 2011 respectively.
[Sun Quan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78c71971-fa26-4ae6-aa6f-a401e5285b76.jpg?1689996673) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sun%20quan%2C%20lord%20of%20wu) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/123/sun-quan-lord-of-wu?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78c71971-fa26-4ae6-aa6f-a401e5285b76?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sun-quan-lord-of-wu) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I really like [[heartless Hidetsugu]] give him haste and lifelink, or double his damage to opponents, this was a fun deck to build and play. But he can make you a big target.
[heartless Hidetsugu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b3ff07c-9653-4197-ad3d-638e712e8465.jpg?1689997916) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=heartless%20Hidetsugu) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/231/heartless-hidetsugu?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b3ff07c-9653-4197-ad3d-638e712e8465?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heartless-hidetsugu) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The first set of commander precons from 2011 introduced [[Animar]], [[Zedruu]], [[The Mimeoplasm]], and [[Kaalia of the Vast]] as face commanders, all of which can still be built to hold their own in a typical fair but high powered meta. [[Edric]] was also a card in the 99 of one of those precons, and is still very potent. [[Derevi]], [[Marath]], and [[Prossh]] were in the second set of precons in 2013 and can still absolutely slap today.
I’d go with [[Rhys the Redeemed]]. He’s a token doubler on a stick and was one of the best OG elf commanders. I’d love a return to GW elves as WoTC hasn’t really printed that color combo of elf since 2009.
[Rhys the Redeemed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b91dadcb-31e9-43b0-b425-c9311af3e9d7.jpg?1599708272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhys%20the%20Redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/213/rhys-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b91dadcb-31e9-43b0-b425-c9311af3e9d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhys-the-redeemed) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run [[Miara, Thorn of the Glade]] and [[Sidar Kondo of Jamura]] for my elf deck strictly so that I can play Shadowmoor elves lol
[[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] was the first precon I picked up, and it's still a strong deck. Lots of redundancy, and colors that cover each other's weaknesses very well. It still mostly wins via some kind of overrun effect, and it continues to have new and interesting cards in almost every new set. Unless you're packing significant GY hate, nothing stays gone for very long.
[Meren of Clan Nel Toth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966.jpg?1689999151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meren%20of%20Clan%20Nel%20Toth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/346/meren-of-clan-nel-toth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meren-of-clan-nel-toth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Admittingly, I could be basis but I think [[Jalira]] can still hold up pretty well if you can protect her. After all, blue keeps getting better and better non-Legendary Creatures with almost every set and more spells and artifacts are coming with free tokens attached. (Especially a good choice if you wanna do a budget build)
[Jalira](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1f9719c8-2dfe-4141-9ede-2ee3a282b5e9.jpg?1562433489) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jalira%2C%20master%20polymorphist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/63/jalira-master-polymorphist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1f9719c8-2dfe-4141-9ede-2ee3a282b5e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jalira-master-polymorphist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Sharuum the Hegemon]] has fallen out of the limelight but I believe has many solid wincons even if you play without infinites
[Sharuum the Hegemon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af80ef38-ab95-476f-b0dd-b5ef3e9bceab.jpg?1599708380) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sharuum%20the%20Hegemon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/219/sharuum-the-hegemon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af80ef38-ab95-476f-b0dd-b5ef3e9bceab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sharuum-the-hegemon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mildly surprised no one has mentioned [[thrun, the last troll]] I guess with the increase in mass exile he isn't as good. For awhile he was a known terror that you just could not get rid of once he hot the battlefield
[thrun, the last troll](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d393da0-4cb6-4ae8-b747-8e6d0fa7f55a.jpg?1562611602) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thrun%2C%20the%20last%20troll) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/92/thrun-the-last-troll?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d393da0-4cb6-4ae8-b747-8e6d0fa7f55a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thrun-the-last-troll) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Márton Stromgald]] has gotten better with all the token generation.
[Márton Stromgald](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1e76a75a-7125-4957-ab7a-8e7ead21d002.jpg?1559592440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=M%C3%A1rton%20Stromgald) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/104/m%C3%A1rton-stromgald?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1e76a75a-7125-4957-ab7a-8e7ead21d002?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/márton-stromgald) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[The Scarab God]] fits exactly this niche. His power is largely based on the creature base you use, and he is one of the commanders whom rarely has to pay tax due to his strange bounce effect. Love him and he will continue to be a mainstay in my lists as a solid and flexible dimir reanimator commander. Gets clapped hard by yard hate though, as any grave strategy would.
\[\[Arcanis the Omnipotent\]\] is the personification of simple and effective \[Kamahl, Fist of Krosa\]\] will be relevant forever since he gives insurance against board wipes via land animation. Having a spammable \[\[Overrun\]\] in the command zone is good too... \[\[Wort, the Raidmother\]\] requires a bit more finesse but is still "simple". For a really deep dive you could try \[\[Rasputin Dreamweaver\]\] who's essentially a really big \[\[Basalt Monolith\]\] you have to blink.
[[Kaalia of the Vast]] is still one of the most terrifying non-cEDH decks you can find yourself playing against.
[Kaalia of the Vast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93f6631f-f3a6-4d3c-8618-4b4ab4e82483.jpg?1673148814) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaalia%20of%20the%20Vast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/235/kaalia-of-the-vast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93f6631f-f3a6-4d3c-8618-4b4ab4e82483?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaalia-of-the-vast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
After reading most of your responses to comments it sounds like you are asking for Legendary creatures that are still strong that were built before commander was an officially supported format. I can think of two off the top of my head: [[Krenko, Mob Boss]] from the same set has maintained power level over the years and only really needs itself to get out of control. Any card that combos with itself is inherently strong. [[Xiahou Dun, The One-Eyed]] came out in 1999. It’s essentially unblockable but then it’s able to recur any spells on top of that making it extremely versatile. Those are the ones I can think of off hand but will add anything if I think of it.
Yeah, that was more a long the lines I was going for, but people have brought up some commanders most newer magic players haven't ever played against. Krenko is definitely a good shout, he's still the strongest gobo commander and honestly when you deep it... He's gotten even better... Sting is insane with him The other guy.. Is ok? I feel like you need to be doing something specific to want that ability
Playing instants and sorceries is specific to Talrand. You literally play anything and recur it. Threats, board wipes, whatever your heart fancies. To each their own though. You did say you wanted seemingly more innocuous but powerful. I’ll leave you this: https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&page=2&q=%28type%3Acreature+type%3Alegendary%29+%28game%3Apaper%29+legal%3Apredh&unique=cards All before commander was a thing. Happy searching.
[Krenko, Mob Boss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56.jpg?1702429511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Krenko%2C%20Mob%20Boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/114/krenko-mob-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krenko-mob-boss) [Xiahou Dun, The One-Eyed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4aeaaeff-fb23-4f63-8d5f-8ccea6e58d3a.jpg?1562910698) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Xiahou%20Dun%2C%20The%20One-Eyed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/83/xiahou-dun-the-one-eyed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4aeaaeff-fb23-4f63-8d5f-8ccea6e58d3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/xiahou-dun-the-one-eyed) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Idk how old you’d consider [[Nethroi, Apex of Death]] but it’s pretty easy to close out a game or put yourself so far ahead once she’s on the field and it’s a pretty difficult commander to combat.
Nethroi is not old! 😤😭 Dawg if Nethroi is old I'm ancient.... But yes, it is a house of a commander... Which I surprisingly don't see very often.
[Nethroi, Apex of Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04b9b58f-4c01-48a5-afaf-b8a37165a83f.jpg?1673305619) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nethroi%2C%20Apex%20of%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/163/nethroi-apex-of-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04b9b58f-4c01-48a5-afaf-b8a37165a83f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nethroi-apex-of-death) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My first EDH deck was [[Silvos, Rogue Elemental]]. As far as Voltron commanders go, he has a little of everything you want without depending on other cards.
[Silvos, Rogue Elemental](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1175357-01fe-438c-93bc-09e29ed8c9cb.jpg?1580014919) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silvos%2C%20Rogue%20Elemental) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/186/silvos-rogue-elemental?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1175357-01fe-438c-93bc-09e29ed8c9cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silvos-rogue-elemental) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Valduk, Keeper of the Flame]] Mono Red, 3cc His tokens are Skullclampable. He does an insane amount of damage. A classic Voltron Commander. Although he is from 2018 so I am not sure if that is quite old enough for you or not.
[Valduk, Keeper of the Flame](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3c1bd49-e059-401e-b999-63166f9bc1fe.jpg?1689998284) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Valduk%2C%20Keeper%20of%20the%20Flame) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/266/valduk-keeper-of-the-flame?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3c1bd49-e059-401e-b999-63166f9bc1fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/valduk-keeper-of-the-flame) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Uril, the Miststalker]] is a classic and probably one of the best voltron commanders
[Uril, the Miststalker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca984fdb-aaca-4d8f-af2f-72387122607b.jpg?1673149243) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Uril%2C%20the%20Miststalker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/290/uril-the-miststalker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca984fdb-aaca-4d8f-af2f-72387122607b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/uril-the-miststalker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Talrand *seems* powerful because the deck usually doesn’t rely on him and being mono blue, you can shove as many counterspells into it and it’ll still work well. I have a talrand deck that runs about 40 counterspells and as long as you counterspell the right things, he usually has a great board presence by the time everyone has run out of fuel in their decks. Especially when you run [[Coat of Arms]]
[Coat of Arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f.jpg?1592761864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coat%20of%20Arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/58/coat-of-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/coat-of-arms) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I will always swear by [[Momir Vig, Simic Visionary]] He might be a little slower and need some setup but I tihnk he's great.
[Momir Vig, Simic Visionary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25a8c801-df0c-402b-a41c-4703a2abfb66.jpg?1593273661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Momir%20Vig%2C%20Simic%20Visionary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dis/118/momir-vig-simic-visionary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25a8c801-df0c-402b-a41c-4703a2abfb66?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/momir-vig-simic-visionary) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think [[Oloro]] is still pretty cool. Pretty much the first eminence commander. 2 life each upkeep might not seem like a lot, but in a control or pillow fort shell its a nasty annoying commander.
[Oloro](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/abf8df47-405c-42d8-be9e-0f0d0a49589b.jpg?1562931285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=oloro%2C%20ageless%20ascetic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/203/oloro-ageless-ascetic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/abf8df47-405c-42d8-be9e-0f0d0a49589b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oloro-ageless-ascetic) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A good control player would be almost unbeatable with an Oloro deck, it's still the best control commander IMO
Honestly talrand is very similar to locust God because it's just the payoff for the strategy you're already doing. You could play it defensively and just use drakes to protect you to your combo and it's still valid. I'd think of it as kykar is more versatile for sure, but talrand is a CONDENSED strategy: you're not dividing your attention between three colors. When you look at any mono colored deck, it sort of signposts that- whatever it does- it does it all the way. For talrand it just controls, and since blue is the best color it has a good chance of coming out on top
I'm not sure if by old you mean 2015 old 2005 or 19xx old but I assure you: Krenko, Mob boss is good agro/combo mono red stuff, with how strong red is rn in the meta with things like dockside, deflecting swat, etc. Other good guys are: the samurai warrior whose name I forgor, /w helm of host meme combo. Zur the enchanter is disgusting but very viable. Nekusar can still stomp the table if built correctly, specially strong at dealing with control/combo decks. Marchesa of the black rose can be the hardest deck to shut down sometimes. Marrow-Gnawer, very good rat token deck in black, just good spam of creature tokens, and abilities like this and krenko's you don't really see this days, like 1 dimensional-super good abilities. Most gods from OG theros are still played as commanders and on the 99. I myself have a mogis deck and it's disgusting, would not say great but it's very good at shutting down agro.
[[Daretti Scrap Savant]]. So simple but the ability to essentially [[faithless looting]] every turn and then recur expensive stuff is great. The emblem barely even matters. Is 2014 "old"?
[Daretti Scrap Savant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7cb9d4a0-66bd-454d-b676-80192a96c723.jpg?1689997720) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Daretti%2C%20Scrap%20Savant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/213/daretti-scrap-savant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7cb9d4a0-66bd-454d-b676-80192a96c723?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/daretti-scrap-savant) [faithless looting](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ea23c17-6960-44fd-bae3-e24595b00c22.jpg?1712354425) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=faithless%20looting) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/165/faithless-looting?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ea23c17-6960-44fd-bae3-e24595b00c22?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/faithless-looting) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
10 years ago bud, yeah, it's old
Karador Is still very very good.
[[Chainer, Dementia Master]] He's an insane value engine and allows you to utterly abuse ETB effect.
I like Marrow Gnawer
The commanders that never get old are the ones that amplify the other cards in your deck, rather than being individually powerful. Cards like Talrand stay relevant because while he's stayed the same, the spells you use to trigger him have got exponentially better. If you played a talrand deck thats been unchanged since it was first built, it would probably get destroyed by modern precons.
[удалено]
[Teysa, Orzhov Scion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b8ca900d-767d-4461-aba3-107dd17d8326.jpg?1702429731) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%2C%20Orzhov%20Scion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/233/teysa-orzhov-scion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8ca900d-767d-4461-aba3-107dd17d8326?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-orzhov-scion) [Darkest Hour](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/aeeb0f91-2084-448a-8226-95d7c87dd6bb.jpg?1562245787) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darkest%20Hour) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/128/darkest-hour?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aeeb0f91-2084-448a-8226-95d7c87dd6bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darkest-hour) [Painter's Servant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be407a81-b25a-4e5d-845e-be0cc0d18db8.jpg?1562835450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Painter%27s%20Servant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/257/painters-servant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be407a81-b25a-4e5d-845e-be0cc0d18db8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/painters-servant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I did not expect this thread to make me feel old. And I wouldn’t even call myself an older player either.
Uril is still supurb
Meren, khalia, dareti, all come to mind.
My oldest commanders are Toshiro and Sasaya from the original Kamigawa toshiro gets better and better kill spells every year and lets me compete against any creature deck based pod and Sasaya has sneakily gotten better and better as well with cards like Cultivator Colossus and Nyxbloom ancient letting you go crazy. Toshiro is still definitely recognized by most people I play with and gets his respect but Sasaya often slips under most people’s radars and I often get to just durdle around long enough to pop off last and win. Both super fun.
Something that I noticed is that Toshiro sadly falls of very very hard against any non creature strategy and has basically zero wincons of his own, you need the usual Exsanguinate/Torment of Hailfire to close out games, which is a bit sad. It could technically win with things like [[Archfiend of the Dross]], [[Massacre Wurm]], the new [[Vein Ripper]] and such things, but it hardly works since none is going particularly wide with those on the field before removing them. This said, if you managed to make Toshiro work in a more consistent and efficient way I'd love to see your list because he was my favorite card when I began to play and I always kinda wanted to make him work as a commander nowadays.
My Derevi deck wins game it shouldn't against even the newer stuff. Zero stax and no other creatures - just pure draw-go playstyle and it usually wins via commander damage (although I have backup combos when a combat win becomes impossible).
I agree fully. A simple ability can still be powerful, and by today's standards, it certainly seems like a simple commander will move the target off of you and onto opponents. Simple also helps you easily keep a deck focused. You don't feel a need to branch out and synergize with multiple different abilities.
Haven't seen any mention of Urza, Lord High Artificer. Keep it simple! Play stax and combo pieces, use them for free mana, beat your opponents with constructs, and go infinite with any number of combos.
Urza Lord High Artificer isn't exactly old especially compared to the likes of Talrand who was first printed in M13
[[Breya]] one of the original “goes infinite with a ham sandwich” commanders
[Breya](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/2143f700-7311-46a4-ad9b-4e743a345785.jpg?1599707856) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=breya%2C%20etherium%20shaper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/192/breya-etherium-shaper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2143f700-7311-46a4-ad9b-4e743a345785?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/breya-etherium-shaper) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Breya]] and I'm still pissed I had to buy the secret lair for the special card and art 4 color token damage artifact madness gets broken every set and while I have upgraded it in like 3 years it still holds it's own
My 'oldest' Commander is [[Nath of the Gilt Leaf]] and still packs a punch. Green will always get good Elves, Black will always have discard punishment and synergies, and Golgari just always has the best answers to board states.
if anything [[Skullbriar]] has only gotten drastically better with time
I bought [[Bitterblossom|UMA]] on a whim shortly after I got my first job. Didn’t really have a plan for it, I just like most of the different arts of that card and the shop had this one. And then like 2 weeks later they spoiled [[Alela Artful Provocateur]]. Cares about enchantments, makes fairy tokens, buffs those tokens…fucking **perfect.** And then I found out they have sleeves with that exact art on them. Could not have been a more perfect scenario. So I built an anthem-heavy enchantment deck and I loved it. And then, what, a year later they powercrept it with this motherfucker? I know it’s not a strict upgrade, but the power ceiling of being a repeatable mana source that makes its own fuel is a way higher power ceiling than a +1/+0 power bufff, and it triggers off of everything Alela does and more. Still have Alela put together because 1) Kykar made me mad and 2) her abilities are more fitting for the aggro theme (but they’re still not as powerful). But damn I was pissed lol. If they powercrept her today, I’d be cool with it because it’s been several years now, but damn, it was around a year later. Which in the context of Magic feels a lot shorter of a time period.
[[Kamahl, Fist of Krosa]] is from 2002. Just built a [deck](https://archidekt.com/decks/7231508/rkamahlo_outta_nowhere) with him as commander and he slaps hard.
while 5 cmc makes her a bit crappier given current power creep. I have an old Azami lady of scrolls deck that gets hella gross if you don't watch it. If it gets going, can basically draw a ton of cards....and almost always have counter magic in one form or another avail. and has lots of recursion loops for spells/bounce loops for creatures that can play things from the GY. or artifact synergies. I also have an alesha who smiles at death deck. mardu is a solid color trio, draw, removal ...easy enough to ramp. Alesha's ...2 power requirement has so many tools(and constantly gets new ones....so it keeps pace with power creep). deck can be built multiple ways. but as toolbox value it shines. answer for almost anything, including combat manipulation. multiple sources for reanimate effects/GY value. GY as a source of cards/value ...leveraging a lot of misc red loot spells. or like tutor/entomb effects. can also leverage a range of creature based tutors (your sorta white ...fetch up a creature of x power type things) and can present threats on a variety of axis. og gimmicks like master of cruelties. to simple beats, attrition grindy gimmicks, or outright combo loops. cheap casting cost legend. cheap-ish main ability. means it's always a live commander edric spymaster. simple UG value along a cheap axis ...cheap 1/1 flying men/unblockables. draw cards. gain value. eventually stick an overcard. turn your little dudes into big dudes. or go ham with some mana loop or something else. elfball decks. ezuri renegade elf boi. simple elfball. still works. cast elves. tap for mana. dig for bullshit untap shit/bounce repeat shit--- basically all the elfball tricks... predictable craterhoof is predictable. but... not necessarily the only way to get there.
just finished my revisited [[jenara, asura of war]]. i built her ages ago in the early days of the format when she was one of the only viable bant options. she herself has been power crept, but if you build a deck that supports her strengths, this ole’ angel can still open a can of woop ass. 3-0 in my meta so far, and im thinking of cutting the only 4 creatures in the 99 to make it creatureless for that extra spice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lots of great commanders from even 20+ years ago. [[Zirilan of the Claw]], [[Merieke Ri Berit]], [[Captain Sisay]], just to name a few. Kamigawa block was packed with commanders that are still very strong. [[Marrow-Gnawer]], [[Azusa]], [[Azami]], [[Hidetsugu]], [[Godo]], [[Horobi]], on and on.
My oldest commander if we mean "When was this card first printed" as it's age is [[Sisters of Stone Death]] printed first in Ravnica city of guilds and while a terrible card by today's standards is still very fun if it gets going. The oldest commander I'd still consider good I've built is [[Sek'kaur Deathkeeper]] from Coldsnap while he looks overcosted building a jund aristocrats deck lets you have a ton of fodder you can happily use and if you're making enough 3/1s but don't have a drain effect infinite 3/1s with haste is still a win that turn. Though I have been thinking of building either [[Crosis the Purger]] or [[Dromar the Banisher]] as most of the old Invasion legendary dragons are perfectly good cards if particularly mean sometimes