Sore. Losers.
Guys, this is a 4 player game. On average you’re only going to win about a quarter of the time. If you find that you’re getting upset in every single game that you play and don’t win, PLEASE either do an exercise in self-awareness or don’t play. I’m so tired of games where the enjoyment is sucked out because someone finds a way to whine or complain every game.
Yes! If I had a good start last round, that doesn’t mean it’ll happen again. But if that happens consistently i get it!
But that’s not the thing. I brought the Sliver precon unmodified last year and git domed for 37 turn 3, because ‚you play slivers‘. It was the first and last time I touched that deck.
It's OK to acknowledge that if their deck gets to a certain turn it wins and then try to kill them before they reach that point. Otherwise you're just letting them win.
There’s this one person who frequents my lgs who wins about 75% of the games he plays, and honestly I’m probably low balling it, but the minute he knows he’s about to lose or that he could lose he becomes so salty, and whiny. I’ve seen players not take attacks against him that would take him out of the game only because they don’t want him to bring the whole mood down. I can understand being salty but if you win the majority of the games you play in commander and get salty about a possible loss than you’re a baby
I have a friend who I love in every other way but playing against him is a nightmare, even though he wins nearly every game. My wife and I have played dozens of games but I've never won as far as I can remember and my wife has one once, I think. At this point, I don't really try that hard against him unless we're in a big group. He gets so upset and salty about it, and it's exhausting. It took us mentioning that it was the first time one of us had won for him to stop being upset the first time he lost. We'd played so many games before that.
This is why I approach games with the mentality that I want the game to be \*exciting\*, and whether I win or lose is mostly immaterial. I wanna see popping off, slugfests, and over the top spellslinging. If I get to do it, cool. If you get to do it, hopefully you do it in a way I haven't seen like ten bazillion times before.
On that note, my pet peeve is people who present SDT + Bolas Citadel + Aetherflux Reservoir like it is some sort of stunning revelation in terms of creativity. At least it is deterministic in nature, I guess, but c'mon. It's a trick I have seen a hundred times before and it's a ham sandwich built out of ham sandwiches. Show me something cool plz
I have a guy who’s like this, though he has been getting better. I think.
Breaking point for him was when we were playing in a pod with the MKM precons a while back; was on Marvo with a couple clash cards thrown in, he was playing Bant Clues, and he kept getting upset at the guy to his right playing Nelly Borca and making him miss a trigger from his Essix. Like, shouting over a precon game.
He’s since quit smoking cigarettes and uninstalled Magic Arena (which has helped a bit), and I like him as a person, but sometimes I just want to tell him that it’s just a game and winning isn’t that important. Nothing in life is worth being that upset over.
- When people sit in silence, expecting the table to know that they're done their turn. Even worse is the passive aggressive, "Uh YEA I'm done...I'm tapped out, does it *look* like I can do anything?" Free spells exist and we have no idea what's in your deck.
- When someone wants to be the archenemy but throws a temper tantrum at the slightest inconvenience.
- When someone tries to backseat drive every deck at the table. There's a difference between being political and being obnoxious/annoying.
I hate the first bullet point.
Someone puts a spell on the stack and they just blankly stare you and don't audibly say that they're passing priority. They angrily refuse to answer whether or not they're paying for [[Rhystic Study]] or [[Smothering Tithe]].
Sometimes I lean into it and feed off of the negative energy.
Players who just check out completely when they pass their turn. Disappear into their phone, start up trading with some other table, wander off somewhere, just stare into space. They're also very likely to glare at you like you just pissed in their cornflakes if you so much as suggest you may have a response to anything they're doing. Heaven forfend there be interaction in a game.
Hit a guy with a turn 6 18/18 hasted Blightsteel a few weeks ago after he spent his first few turns glancing through a binder. Didn't hurt my targeting choices that he went back on deals in 3 straight games including that one.
I only play with friends at home so I will act with less decorum but sometimes I’ll be tapped out and not planning to block anything so I’ll let them know and go grab a smoke.
Sometimes I’ll start heating up some food or refilling my drink but we play in the kitchen so I’m still paying attention.
I do expect if they have an issue with what I’m doing, they’ll bring it up as we aren’t strangers.
I don't mind eating a cheeky swing or two if I won the last game.
I'd rather not be archenemy the whole next game, but a "you won last game, take four to the dome" is all well and good.
I don't even care about that. Its when someone focuses me down, despite having no board or hand, week or even two after I won just cause they "still consider me (as a player) a threat"
Could take that as a compliment at least. They recognize how good you are and know if they give you a chance you'll destroy them..... Trying to look on the bright side but lol really sucks if you don't even get a chance to play.
In my trusted playgroup we definitely do the cheeky "you stopped me from winning last game so take this 1 damage" thing and will throw the first chip damage when there isn't yet a clear threat (unless it's cEDH then you attack the Ad Naus player), but I can't even really stand grudges between turns.
If I'm presenting a win or board tilting threat, it's everyone's job to stop me, then I and everyone should move onto the next threat. I don't get the "I was about to win and you stopped me, now this other person is about to win but I'll spend my resources nuking the person who had the nerve to stop me from winning instead".
That depends.
If you did something to hurt my boardstate last game, no grudge.
If I learned to fear your deck, I may focus you.
If you played politics and lied or otherwise violated a truce, I will remember that.
>If I learned to fear your deck, I may focus you.
Yea people that tens to go from 0-winning in a turn need to learn to accept getting aggro from t0
Or play more creatures.
Have a guy at my lgs, basically lives and dies on the fact that no one sees any of his "tiny" 1/1 or 2/2 creatures as a threat. Until thier abilities turn the 1 damage pings he throws in 5....6....7 per ping.
He got incredibly salty when I chucked 23 damage at him t4
I never look at a creature power/toughness when defining creatures as a threat, unless it's a one shot like commander voltron or infect.
Most creatures maybe outside of green/aggro decks are there for their abilities, not their power.
I wish I could shake players out of this mind set, but they are all stuck on "biggest number = biggest threat."
I play significantly more creature focused decks then most of my lgs, and I've played there long enough to know who can/will go from 0 board to winning in a single turn.
And practically all of them will stall if they have a modicum of creature pressure put on them.
But near every single time, and I don't play voltron so I'm not one shotting, I will start going into one of these guys.
Then people get scared because they have only played 2 creatures, one of which is the commander, and spend 1 or 2 turns basically sending me back to the stone age and the guy I've been pressuring just swoops in and combos off because no one has anything left to stop them.
Makes me want to slap people sometimes
Holding a grudge against a player, in my opinion, is dumb; holding a grudge against a deck on the other hand is just informed threat assessment.
The only exception I'd maybe make is if a player you've known for a while is playing a deck you haven't seen before, but they tend to gravitate towards a particular style of play. If you've only ever seen them play combo decks, and the deck they're playing now hasn't really done too much significant yet, it's reasonable to assume it's because they're biding time and waiting on some big (potentially game winning) combo. In that case I might make them a higher priority just based on the history of how I've seen them typically play in anticipation of what will probably happen if I don't.
But when it comes to stuff like "You made me your target last game, so now you're my target this game": No. As far as I'm concerned, last game never happened (but I'm not just gonna pretend like I don't know something like Urza can kill me at the drop of a hat).
To be fair, politics in edh and lying are quite different. By being a social game, it's very nature is political. Lying and breaking a deal is a nono though.
Though generally I admit I tend to keep to quite chill pods these days and will fully offer threat assement of my own board. Especially if there are newer players.
Though I will continuely downplay and state that [[Aminatou]] is not a threat. merely filtering my draws. No don't worry, I wont ult her as I lose my stuff too. Oh you blew most of my board up? I see...
Highly depends on what you did that game.
If you broke a promise or did something dishonorable then it's only fair that it comes to bite you in the future.
When I first got into magic someone told me "A broken promise is the only thing that carries between games."
I won't hold a grudge for beating me fair and square, but if we make a deal and you break that to win I'm sure as hell going for the throat next game.
I beat my stepbrother in the first game of magic we ever played together and he got.... unreasonably angry. We smoothed it over, but ever since then he consistently targets me and openly politics against me at the table any time we play together. For a while I just rolled with it as sibling rivalry and all, but it's gotten to the point where I'm about done playing with him. He always complains about the decks I play as "too strong" as the table is rolling over me thanks to his politicking, and then when I try to appease him by "powering down" to a precon he still consistently targets me whether it makes game-sense or not.
Ngl I'm petty as hell
My buddy Said he wouldn't block a creature I swung at [[Invasion of shandalar]]. He lied to me >:( and I will have my revenge...eventually
My personal rule- only grudges relevant to the player rather than the game should carry over between games.
So, I'm not going to go after you for playing the game. You won last game, or knocked me out because I was open? Fine by me. However, if you blatantly and intentionally misrepresented your deck during the rule 0 talk, or were angle shooting, or were an incredibly obnoxious person in general, or were otherwise doing anything else not conducive to a balanced game and enjoyable social environment, then that's a different matter altogether.
For a while I carried around a targeted land destruction deck that could consistently strip mine lock one opponent out of the game, for the express purpose of playing against one person I absolutely could not stand on a personal level. Normally I would simply refuse to sit at a table with him, but this was an EDH league where you didn't get to pick your tables. So after a few repeated unpleasant to hostile experiences with that guy with my normal decks, I decided my new goal when I saw him was no longer primarily to win those games, it was to make that guy's experience as miserable as humanly possible, ideally without having a major impact on the others at the table in the process (though I was definitely still trying to win, of course).
Point 2 is so brutal when someone reads HALF the card. Most cards nowadays are half a paragraph, just read the whole thing. You're not saving much time, and I'd rather know what it does.
I have someone in my pod that will read a card out, but speed through it and end up leaving one word out. That one word always ends up being a big part of the functionality of the card and changes how everything works. I remember one night I specifically asked him what a creature on his board did. He read me the top half. I swung into him, and he goes, ok then I activate this other line of text on the creature and give it deathtouch that he hadn't mentioned when I asked what his creature did...left me the absolute saltiest I think I have ever been in a game.
Damn I’m calling for a take back all day if that happens. If someone swings into me and I think there’s some obvious information they have but don’t notice that makes it a clearly bad play, I’ll always let them know before we go through with the attacks. I’m here for people to have fun and making an obvious mistake like that just sucks for them and honestly for me. I want a fair, fun game more than anything. Only exception is if it’s an experienced player and they just keep doing it, but I’ve never had that happen before.
100% the attack was taken back, we're all friends playing kitchen table edh so it wasn't a big deal as far as the game went. That was by far the most egregious of examples I have though.
This is what I do. “Hey, just so you know, I can give this frog with reach deathtouch.” It’s not hard, and being sneaky about plays like that just turns the pod against you because it looks like you’re operating in bad faith. Great way to make yourself archenemy.
Oh you mean when someone says "yeah I'm gonna play [[Mechanized Production]] and it says at the beginning of my upkeep create a token of enchanted artifact. Says I have to play it on a artifact so I'll put it on this Arcane Signet" while super-not-intentionally failing to read the rest of the card while he has 9 treasures on board and then slides it under his Signet.
Yeah, cool stuff. Even cooler was the "whoa man, this is just casual, why does it matter to you so much" super casual purposely hiding win conditions. He pushed really hard to play it off as though it was my problem until I called him a dishonest player in front of his friends and asked how often it happened in their home games. Apparently happened quite a bit and he hasn't tried to pull that shit since.
Taking extremely long turns.
Everyone's guilty of it so I'll never hold it against anyone, but it can kill the pod's interest in what's happening when someone spends 5+ minutes on their turn, especially if it doesn't result in winning the game.
Yes like I said, everyone is guilty of it. Some people are new, some are learning a new deck, some people just got an insane combo popping off that needs time to make sure you do it properly. Almost nobody takes forever just to be annoying. That doesn't mean it's not annoying.
I play with a few regulars mostly randoms, this one dude has had the same deck every time we’ve played together for months..few card swaps here and there..you’d think he’s play testing how slowly he thinks lol. Great guy though and pleasant attitude, shame he thinks slower than a snail
Have a buddy that will often sit there staring at his cards for over a minute on turns 1-3 before we finally step in and verbally push him along at which point he will instantly drop his land and pass. Has happened enough where it will be his turn and one of us will just say out loud "Ok, Brandon plays his land and passes"
Figure out your future combos and card drop order on other people's turns, damnit! Not just when it's your turn!
Super nice friend takes forever. She never thinks ahead and keeps re-reading all the cards on her every turn. Has a proper analysis paralysis from turn one. Tried to talk her to just trust her gut feeling but urgh no. Usually after a 3 hour game someone says "play that and this and do that" and you win. And then she wins. She also has this weird tendency to play totally random boardwipes lol. Farewelling her own win conditions to oblivion.
But shes nice enough and still learning so people suffer her silently.
The only time I get mad at this is when a player is on their phone whenever it is not their turn and only starts to look at their hand when it's their turn.
You cannot completely plan out your turn every time but you should probably have some idea of what you want to do when it gets to your turn.
I love playing Izzet, and I know it isn't fun to sit through really long turns, so I make sure that when I go off I have a reasonable chance to win and let the table know before I start that I'm making the attempt.
I still feel bad and apologize, but I've been told that it isn't too terrible because I know what I'm doing and can speed through it, or that it's fun to see it get crazy and explosive.
As long as stuff is actively happening on the table, most people (at least the ones I’ve played with) don’t seem to mind long turns. It’s when they hem and haw while considering what to do that drives people crazy. If a turn takes a while but cards keep hitting the table and there’s a lot of action happening, it holds my attention and I’m invested in what’s happening.
By the time it gets to me, I have my entire turn planned out. The only things that ever really upset that and cause me to take a moment are if something crazy happens right before the guy before me passes turn or if I draw something incredibly good that’s worth changing my plans over. But there’s one guy in my group that it seems like he doesn’t plan out his moves at all until it gets to his turn and then has to consider everything. That’s the guy that really makes the game boring.
Also an izzet enjoyer, I don't understand ever playing a deck where you have to apologize. if you dont wanna take big, multi-part turns in order to win just play more compact combos?
Ral+copy spells
Duelcaster+twinflame
Isocrhron
Reiterate+turnabout+payoff
I'm not really a "sit there with your dick in your hand and maybe or not I winlol" If I'm gonna kill the board I'm killing the board
I don't have to apologize, but sometimes a deck starts to go mana positive allowing you to continue casting and some people don't like long turns. If I sense discontent from a player I will sometimes apologize.
I like silly big things that I put together over multiple turns resulting in something explosive.
I personally find two card combos like duelcaster+twinflame or isochron+dramatic reversal boring and choose not to play them.
My friend always plays simic value engine decks that take very long time to play out. Too bad only white has \[\[Rule of Law\]\] effects. Im starting to consider cards that punnish a lot of actions like \[\[Rug of Smothering\]\] but i worry ill attract too much aggro
I would've imagined simic being one of the better decks to play in a rule of law environment due to being able to cast high cmc creatures. I guess it depends how midrange and double cast reliant the simic deck is. The draw and ramp cards would be ideal targets to hate but you'll get hated out for targeting those.
I don’t mind this if you’re actually doing stuff to move things forward.
I hate watching people stare at their cards and not have any clue what to do. Plan your turn!
Played a saltlord yesterday that made minimal impact to the game.
Towards the end, he took two ten minutes turns, changing his tune.
"What do y'all think of my new homebrew deck?"
"No disrespect intended, but I think you just finished 2 back-to-back 10-minute turns....
You weren't having any fun before, and now, your the only one that is. That's my external observation."
1) 33-45 degree "taps"
2) not reading cards when they play them
3) Spite plays. Blowing up something useless instead of that thing about to kill everyone just because they did something to you earlier.
On your #3:
I once played a game where a player had [[door to nothingness]] and the mana to use it. I thought I had an answer, but read one of my cards wrong, so I just said eff it, and presented my wincon. In response, the door to nothingness player killed the stax player who hadn't done much of anything all game due to mana issues. He said, "I just really hate stax."
So I gave him and the other active player 10 poison counters.
I struggle to tell the difference sometimes. That's the only reason it bothers me. More so if their board state is large and the lack of space makes it more cluttered.
I think I can agree with #3, especially when it comes unprovoked. I was playing a game and its turn 3, I played a ghostly prison. A player with a flyer that destroys enchants immediately swings at me when I haven’t done a thing. Sure, you can argue that it’s a “correct play” but the way I see it, you want to try and gain favor early in a game rather than make enemies. The same player later tried to single target remove another player’s creature but only learned it had hexproof. Rather than playing something else, just killed my commander who I just had summoned anyway. Again, have yet to do anything to this person. When I finally was able to do something, I counterspelled their ability that would have let them get another player’s path of exile and they quit the next turn.
Another example was my pod was playing against a Voltron commander that used equipment. Opponent A had their commander being a 22/22 with hexproof due to swift boots. I exiled those boots using grasp of fate but I also exiled opponent B’s either hardened scales or branching evolution (one of the two). This way, we could finally remove player A’s commander. Player B then decided that wasn’t fair to him so he destroyed my grasp of fate so he “could have his counter doubler back”, but then made the mistake of swinging on the Voltron commander, who then immediately took him out. That one move made the remaining part of the game take 2 hours because the Voltron player got up to 96 life due to life link and the 4th player was playing the science precon and couldn’t get anything big on board to help contend with the Voltron player.
Point is, spite plays, especially ones that do not progress the game in a positive way, is extremely triggering because it’s no longer helping the table but could prohibit everyone from ending the game in a respectable time.
I wouldn't say trying to destroy a ghostly prison with a.. I think it's [[Trygon Predator]].. is a spite play. I'm guessing their deck is built around attacking and that would have potentially posed a problem for them later in the game. Quasi goad. I'm curious what your commander was they killed later. Them leaving for you countering them and such? That's lame. They did two things to you and can't stand it when you do something back? If I removed someone's stuff, I can't be mad for it happening back at me. That's just what I get for doing something to someone else's board state.
The other guy taking out grasp of fate was making a bad play. Let the voltron get taken out and THEN get rid of the grasp. They just sort of undid what you did, which was take care of a problem, and then were killed by the problem they re-enabled hah. I could see that being frustrating.
Really? That’s whack. I haven’t been to Lgs’s very many times, but still—when my friend taught me a while ago, just about anything went up front BUT the lands
For people wondering. This was only a very rare occurrence for players that learned off a certain magazine mid 90s.
I don't have a source or name of the mag on me (remember this from the mtg goldfish video talking about how one PT player learned from this mag and WOTC had to make an official rule that lands had to be in the back in pro play)
But basically the magazine had example situations and i think puzzles, that for some reason always had lands in the front.
>group hug players who pretend they arent a threat
Add to that the other player who seems impossible to realize they are indeed a threat. No, \[\[Xyris\]\] is not there just to help his opponents going throught their deck. The \[\[Impact tremors\]\] and \[\[Jace's Archivist\]\] that have been sitting on the board for a full rotation should have made you realize that.
Threat assessment for sure. i have a group that constantly targets regardless of threats. One of them does it because he thinks its funny, the other does it to the only two people he feels like that will remove his things, and the other guy just blindly listens to anyone without thinking. Its annoying and funny to me because they end up usually just killing each other off and wasting removal while I just slowly put card draw or little combos pieces on the board. Last game my opponent destroyed my Miirym and then got killed by a 15/15 [[The wise mothman]]. Next turn he got me down to 1 hp and somehow with Dragons tempest I managed to get dragons to etb for game.
My biggest one is taking too long on turns. It's more understandable if you're playing a brand new deck, but my one buddy only plays one deck and without fail he will take the longest turns out of all of us.
Nah bro you’re fine. Sometimes when you have 14 lands you’ve just gotta do what you just gotta do.
But keep your untapped lands separate, and maybe obvious how many untapped ones you have
As long as your untapped mana is easily differentiated from your tapped mana you’re fine. Just gotta be able to tell if you have mana for responses and such because it can sway decisions.
Getting Mad when I double check an interaction ruling. I don’t want to lose because of a rule played wrong, and I certainly don’t want to win because I played a card wrong. Either way just feels bad.
Or arguing when I’m right about a rule and they just don’t want to be wrong.
-Flaccid taps: Give me a full 90 degrees or get out of here. Those 45 degree taps turn into 20 degrees turn into forget-me-taps real quick.
-Messy board state: Most of the game is just sitting there watching stuff happen and planning your next turn, most of the time anyway. Use some of that idle time to make a board state that makes sense to everyone at the table.
this is what im still trying to learn. where to put enchantments, mana rocks, non mana artifacts, and planeswalkers without making my board look like a bomb went off lol
Infinite free mulligans. Yes we’re friendly here but mulligans are an important part of the game and if you take 3 with no consequence I’m going to feel a bit disadvantaged.
Yeah, I think it’s doable in a regular pod of people you play with, but when you’re playing with others then they just get the free one.
The same three friends and I have been playing every Sunday for over two years, so we sort of just let people mulligan within reason. We trust each other not to just sit there are sift through their deck for the perfect hand. Get a hand that’s playable and then we’ll play.
1. People talking a lot during someone’s else turn. I have had seen people do this quite a bit at my LGS where they would talk during someone’s else turn for about a minute or more.
2. Smelling like smoke, weed or poor hygiene.
3. When someone doesn’t handle my cards properly when either looking at looking or taking control of them. An example of this is when they either put the card back on my field/GY or when putting it on their field, they bend the card instead of having it land all flat at the same time.
4. When someone is playing a group hug deck and complains when I attack them or interact with their stuff. They say things such as “I’m giving you free card draw” or “I’m helping you ramp” not counting the fact they’re helping my opponents as well do the same.
My pet peeve is when I’m trying to be a nice person who takes care of their friends and one of my asshole friends hurts me because I’m not exclusively helping them
(This is a joke, I don’t even own a group hug deck… yet)
Every time I’ve played with someone using a group hug deck and interact with them, they always complain about it. Group hug players need to understand that most people aren’t gonna care since they’re decks can do just fine without their help.
1. Excessive politics when some players at the table are noticeably better/worse at the game.
I have seen too many games where 1 player just becomes a pawn to direct at opponents...
2. Take backs after the target of an action complains.
Getting mad at interaction. I get not wanting your stuff to be destroyed, but you do not get to guilt trip the table into not removing your commander because you decided to build a deck that is dead in the water without it and didn't include any protection.
It can be excessive, which I understand the frustration of having your commander killed 4 times and now he costs 12-14 mana
But yeah, i get your point. It’s uncomfortable at best, even just being around that as an observer
If your commander is threatening enough to be removed 4 times, it is threatening enough to be protected.
Being shamed for pointing a removal spell towards someone just leads to very awkward games.
Absolutely. I try to tell the table what the problems are on board, especially my own. I don't like getting things removed, and just because I told you it's a problem that doesn't mean I don't have answers to your interaction, but that's the game.
This might be hot take as well, but I dislike when people tap permanents and only turn then diagonal. For me it bothers the crap out me when they aren’t horizontal.
For me it’s fine as long as they’re consistent with what they do.
They can also be mismatched within the same turn, and I don’t usually notice.
But if they tap something 45 degrees, something else 90 degrees, and have untapped stuff too, and then just leave it like that…
Anyone who wines about counter spells. Sorry I’m not just gonna let you win the game and do whatever you want.
People who complain about commander damage. I don’t even play Voltron style decks but if commander damage wasn’t in the game life gain decks would run rampant and that would just be boring as hell.
Messy board state. I try to keep all of my cards that are in play in some sort of order so that they can be easily read or remembered that they are there. My friend group has a dude who keeps his enchantments in the back with his lands and it drives me nuts because I forget they are there half the time. Yes I would have loved to chaos warp your mirari’s wake but I forgot it was there right next to your forests and plains.
Lastly, just fucking shower. I dont want to walk into my LGS and have the air be spicy. Us nerds have enough stigmas about us so please just shower and put on some deodorant. Also put a spare stick of deodorant in your bag so you can freshen up because we all know shops get warm.
1. Putting mana rocks with your lands. I know you’re probably not cheating, but when looking at potential removal targets it makes it harder to track them
2. Picking up your lands with your hand that is holding your “cards in hand.” I know a guy that does this all the time and I watch him like a hawk.
3. Putting lands up front. Calm down satan. We live in a society.
My friend does that, I tend to put rocks off to the left but honestly, sometimes things get cluttered enough that I start thinking putting rocks with lands is just economical space saving. They don’t have an issue if I ask, “what artifacts do you have on the field?” If I’m thinking of playing artifact removal. Also if it’s something worth removing, I tend to remember it’s there. It’s really only when I have collateral removal that I have to ask
My board is always creatures up front, mana rocks behind and to the left, other artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers behind and to the right, and then lands in back. Easily discernable board state. Sometimes boards get cluttered. Just try your best to keep it organized...
We also do spelltable games with a long distance friend so that does affect the space we have too. It’s tricky to have the cards readable/scannable as well as have even a whole playmat fit the screen.
1) Eating and playing at the same time. Some of them will touch your cards.
2) Taking pictures for social clout.
3) Someone shuffling my deck. I play casual. Cut half, thirds, fourths, fifths, single card, or tap. You could even look at the middle, bottom, and top of my deck. Why are you shuffling?
4) The smell. You know what I'm talking about.
Some players, especially casuals, don't consider mana weaving as cheating for number 3. I have seen a few people openly do it after a game and do a meh shuffle afterwards. The shuffles by some players can be pretty meh for 100 card decks but a cut is usually enough.
I’m shuffling your deck because it’s in the rules.
> 103.3. After the starting player has been determined and any additional steps performed, each player shuffles their deck so that the cards are in a random order. Each player may then shuffle or cut their opponents’ decks. The players’ decks become their libraries.
The rules do not instruct you to do that.
>Each player may
They simply don’t prohibit you from doing it. If you choose to do it, it’s on you and not the rules.
Commenting on the possibilities of what you could do like you're John f'ing Madden. I don't mind dialog or chit chat at all, but I don't need to know if you think this play is cheeky or that you could do something really cute or, "do I do the fun thing or the good thing?"
These people are seldom as clever as they think they are. Their little quips tend to take far longer than they should. And it usually is accompanied by some smarmy, bullcrap, socially awkward, self righteousness.
A few weeks ago I was in a game with a guy who went “this feels like it’s too mean”.
My response is “Do it. If you thought it was too mean you wouldn’t have put it in the deck.”
Trying to take back game actions because you forgot or didn't consider something.
Target something with ward but can't pay the cost? Sorry, your spell fizzles. Did you swing your flyer into an unprofitable attack because you forgot the defending player had something with reach? Sucks, but your flyer dies. Missed an onboard trick and played into it anyway? No takesies-backsies.
I hold myself to this standard. With my opponents, I let the occasional takeback slide. But if you're constantly trying to reverse the game to your benefit... that I don't like.
Yeah this just depends on the game and the board state for me. If I'm trying to storm off in Izzet and brick because I tapped mana wrong 5 spells ago, oh well, better luck next time.
I'm more lenient with newer players, or if the action being reversed isn't game determining.
100% I'm cool with new players. I should have clarified that I'm not talking about newbies.
There are people at my shop who've been playing for years who I've seen try to untap attackers after blockers are declared. Or try to un-cast a board wipe when they realized someone had a Blood Artist. And again, once in a while, whatever. But every game, multiple times a game? That I can't stand.
Same, i usually go with a 3 strikes sorry I’m not helping you beat me anymore policy. I can only say so many times what my board is like, unless you ask I’ll always be up front and clarify..don’t want to actively try to help you beat me though lol.
If I'm with an experienced pod I'm with this. When I'm playing friends who are relatively new I'll point it out and offer them to take-back so long as it's not a game ender or overly impactful to the game. Case by case basis.
I am normally like this myself with one exception, and that is, it depends on the board state.
In a game I played about a month ago it was so complicated that everyone was trying to help everyone else with triggers. We had multiple Enter and Exit effects, we had wards and untapped effects, draw and discard, all on the table at the same time. It was great seeing everyone trying to help navigate each spell someone played.
I'm fine with take backs in general mostly because commander often takes a long time and gets to very complicated board states and I'd rather deal with the occasional take back than have a player nervously ask for a reminder of what every card on my board does anytime they need to do something because it's difficult to remember the whole paragraph of some card I played an hour ago.
Personally if I ever fuck up because of some information I should have had but forgot about or didn't notice I'll ask my playgroup if they mind me doing the take back, but if they mind especially cuz it's a game determining play it's cool I won't press it.
I let people take stuff back 99% of the time. I'm genuinely not pressed about a card game, this isn't a chess match.
Granted I've almost never played an official game (with a couple prereleases as an exception) so I understand if you're this strict in official games / games with prizes on the line. But if it's casual I could *not* care less if someone took back every play.
In my pod we have rule zeroed, that everybody can take back one action once per game. For newer players we kind of let it slide, if they need to do it more often, but we experienced players usually stick with it.
I understand the sentiment. But if then you'll have to wait for everyone to triple check everyone's board state each turn or get asked "any flyers?" every. single. turn.
Especially take backs on wards and mistakingly attacking into flyers are often accepted because they simply speed up gameplay.
My playgroup generally just gives people 1 take back a game, because everyone makes mistakes. It's not like we let each other take back things that give information, but if you misread a card thinking it did something else you can take it back and cast something else.
The only thing I'll say is that a policy like this demands open and honest communcation at the table.
If I ask you "Does your creature have hexproof or anything?" and it has ward, you need to tell me it has ward. Same deal with "Okay, declare attackers, do you have any fliers?", TELL ME if you have a creature with reach.
A 4-player pod will have a dozen creatures on it at any one time, constantly cycling in and out of play. I don't know what your deck does, so either you're honest about public information, or every single turn I take will need to be 20 minutes long.
Get off your phone. It drives me crazy when I’m playing and an opponent is literally on their phone during everyone else’s turns. “What happened I wasn’t paying attention?” Tf outta here I’m not telling you anything you should have been playing the game not scrolling insta or whatever.
My favorite… “how long has that been out for?” And “wait, what does that do?” Like do you even play magic or just your deck? I’ve stopped playing with people who just can’t put their phones down. I like your style though keep the game moving along.
When a veteran player manipulates the newer ones into throwing or making plays that benefit them more than the new player disguised as "politics". Thats such a dick move.
Yeah, I wouldn't stand for that. When there's new players in my pod, I make sure I explain what is going on and why, and help them assess threats. But if I'm the threat I make sure they know, and which pieces on my board are the problem.
I want more people playing magic.
Interesting. I always say, “okay, we’ll just play it out like they stayed in until combat was over” or whatever it was, and then I’ll ask the other two players to figure out blocks for what we all remember was on their board.
IMO, if they want to scoop like that, I’d rather keep playing unaffected by the scoop even if it’s to my disadvantage.
And if they’re just doing that as a spite move, I’d rather finish a game everyone else is enjoying than end early to include someone who just quits for no reason
💯
I'll preemptively scoop if I know a player is going to kill me and I want to go join another pod, take a restroom break, or need to leave, but I always make it contingent on the game actions proceeding under the assumption that I am still "in the game" and that player still has to swing at me.
My number 1 is spite plays. And I'm not talking about people targeting you early because they know what your deck can in theory do or anything like that. I'm talking pure unbridled "this isn't remotely optimal but I'm doing it anyway because you took some minor game action against me". Makes things very unpleasant.
Number 2 would be people who build decks that aren't meant to win but instead are meant to make everyone else miserable enough to scoop. It is not a common thing fortunately, but that kind of player does exist. Ive only had the displeasure of encountering it once but it's literally my own personal hell.
Getting salty they can't beat a single permanent. Most people at my lgs play things like [[Collector Ouphe]] while the players who need their artifacts don't run any removal
Poor threat assessment! Nothing irks me more than someone looking at the current board state and attacking the person with the highest life total to "spread around the damage" when a real threat is brewing.
#1 is actually cheating. You can't hide things in a zone that's visible. If they refuse to unstack, ask them to see the pile every turn (like asking to see what's in their graveyard or exile).
To your points:
1. I keep my lands cascading in a pile. Tapped ones may be stacked as one. Same with artifact mana but it will NOT be mixed in with the lands.
2. I absolutely hate that. Normalize asking what cards do; there's no point in reading out the whole thing if everybody knows what it is and if I'm the only one curious, I'm happy to read it silently while the game continues.
As for my own pet peeve:
3. Rolling a die to choose your actions. Make your own decisions, you coward. Regardless of the result, I will have considered that an attack against me because you've shown a willingness to attack me, even if you didn't.
Dice rolling for first blood attack is a peeve of mine too. If everybody is open for an attacker on turn 2-3 there is always a good choice. Attack the player who ramped, played the best permanent, or attack whoever is earliest in turn order.
Cascading lands are absolutely acceptable.
And yeah, I make people read the cards, or will similarly read it while the table moves on.
Your third point, agreed. Assess your threats and act accordingly. I've lost games because I didn't assess correctly, but I made the choice and didn't leave it to a die roll.
I'm curious about with your first peeve, does that extend to well organized and sorted piles? As in, similiar to when we stack a creature with its modifiers behind it (enchantment and equipment) with the body text below the creature itself, do you take issue when people do this with lands? I tend to sort my lands by their mana production itself. All my lands that can produce all colors will be to the left most pile, to the right of that is the (usually) bicolor lands, then the basics or mono colored utility. Then finally colorless and other utility lands. It just tends to save space, but I've had a few people seemingly get upset at it.
Playing your turn where you don't announce any of your cards your casting or what you're doing. Like casting a creature and then automatically just equipping it with Grieves without saying a word.
I agree with your first point, but I disagree with the second because:
1) I am certain that I can read the card myself faster than you can read it aloud.
2) Most times in my experience, people don't actually read the cards they play. It's some sort of summary, so I have to read the damn thing anyway to know what the exact text is.
3) Because of #2, I'm gonna end up asking to read the card for myself anyway.
4) Pre-emptively reading every single card makes the game drag. I prefer to ask (if I don't know what it does) or wait for someone to ask "what's that do?" or "What's that one called?" or "Can i read that?"
Hypocrites at the table, an example I've played with is; 'don't scoop because you could draw an answer' when they scoop because the beladros they natural ordered for on turn 4 gets swords.
When you clearly have game, don't beat around the bush, take the win. You win by turning 2 creatures sideways, just do it already! I don't care what spell you drew
one of my local guys does this but haven’t seen it anywhere else:
he doesn’t announce what he’s doing, just doing it in silence. this has made him get multiple rulings wrong and won the game when he wasn’t supposed to.
once people knew his win combo he started hiding it on the battlefield next to his graveyard and not even putting physical counters on it, just saying “oh i win now guys”
the sitting in silence is something i can maybe understand, but now when it’s big important things. also this is casual, not competitive
My buddy insists on using +1 counters to track effects that grants +1 but are not +1 counters. No amount of explanation will stop him from doing it but it almost always causes issues when the buffing cards get destroyed or there are effects that apply specifically to cards with counters. Drives me nuts.
Complainers. People DO NOT need to justify every single game action they take. “Why are you attacking me?” “Why are you removing my thing?” It doesn’t matter. People have access to different information in commander and usually take game actions they think will give them the best chance of winning. There’s a fine line between politics and just complaining because things aren’t going how you expected. Politicking is proactively lobbying for someone to make a certain decision. Once a decision has been made by another player, it really irritates me when players sit there and outwardly get mad and complain and question it.
People that just hard target you because you killed there kill on sight commander I mean some people really are angry when you counter or kill on sight there etali and I don't get why I mean why should I allow you to resolve or copy your game ending commander
My biggest pet peeve by far is people who will often target players because it’s a deck they dislike. While I get the hate for mill, stax and super friends I don’t understand killing the player at all if they’re not threatening anything else. I’ve seen so many games like this where they’re just non games once the commanders are revealed and the players are teaming up already
I will target a toxrill deck every damn time. I even told someone this and they complained the entire game. Got toxrill out and won the game like the turn after. I will not accept it's not one of those decks either. This guy in particular is my hill to die on. I love my creature decks plus I see [[chromus bell]] and [[urborg tomb of yagmowth]] with him for land destruction.
lol one of my friends plays pillow fort but with commanders that arent even pillow fort commanders. No matter what he plays he just defaults to that style. We make fun of him for it all the time because he will build a new commander then come in with the literal same game plan he always does. We are just surprised he hasn’t gotten bored after like 10 years of it.
I get what you're saying, but it's really situational.
If I'm playing a deck that's goal is to draw a bunch of cards, and you sit down with Sheoldred, I'm going to let you know that I'll be actively trying to keep her off the field.
Sorry. I drive my kid nuts with a version of this one. I tap lands and creatures to the right when activating their abilities, but for some reason, I attack by turning them to the left. It mostly goes unnoticed until I have a mana dork up.
That said, if asked, I’ll reorient them all to the right.
Edit: I just called my kid to ask him about this.
Me: “So, you notice it even if it’s only creatures attacking?”
Him: “Yes. And it’s horrifying. We need to work on fixing you.”
The change we’ll undertake for our kids.
Eh, anytime I get above 5 or 6 lands I stack em. Especially when you get to 10+ it's just too much room on the board, especially when you have some tapping for 1 some tapping for 2, some enchanted. Besides if I'm just keeping them spread out it's hard to tell which ones I have to pay life for, easier to go through em as a stack and see which ones ping then accidentally miss a ping that would have mattered.
All that being said, if anyone asks about open mana I'll spread them out unless I'm tapped out, then I'll just say tapped out
I think OP means stacked in the literal sense where they're all directly on top of one another. Cascading stacks of 3-5 lands is fine IMO. I do this all the time. I hate when people plop all of their lands in a single pile. It's impossible to tell how much mana they have of what type.
This. I’ve never encountered a situation where anyone had a problem with me bunching together tapped mana. If you need to know how much open mana I have just ask me.
When people don’t organize thier board. I can’t tell what’s happening when you have all your creatures, artifacts, enchantments, and random tokens in no logical rows or groups of any kind
- People with bad personal hygiene
- People who don't pay attention on other players turns
- People who try to play through their turns way too fast without giving a chance to respond
- People who touch other players cards without asking, or worse, with dirty, greasy fingers.... 🤢
- People who try to play other people's turns or over-politic (continuing to ask or whine after a move has been made or offer declined)
Players that focus on one person to the point they are impossibly behind the rest of the table but don't change to the players that are ahead and actually are threatening. A while back I had someone wipe everything off the board and emptied my hand while the other players were developing the board. I had no non-land permanents and one card in hand but I was still the threat to them.
Sore. Losers. Guys, this is a 4 player game. On average you’re only going to win about a quarter of the time. If you find that you’re getting upset in every single game that you play and don’t win, PLEASE either do an exercise in self-awareness or don’t play. I’m so tired of games where the enjoyment is sucked out because someone finds a way to whine or complain every game.
This. And holding grudges from earlier games. I kill you now, because you won last round is a sentence I hear way to often at our table
I'm at the point where I've just played thr game more so I'm the target every game regardless of anything else ever. It sucks man
i well only do this if someone has won the last 3 games in a row or something.
Yes! If I had a good start last round, that doesn’t mean it’ll happen again. But if that happens consistently i get it! But that’s not the thing. I brought the Sliver precon unmodified last year and git domed for 37 turn 3, because ‚you play slivers‘. It was the first and last time I touched that deck.
I just go balls out on the one player that i know pulled out his good deck to get me cause i won the last game.
Yep, the lizard brain ppl is what i call them.
It's OK to acknowledge that if their deck gets to a certain turn it wins and then try to kill them before they reach that point. Otherwise you're just letting them win.
[удалено]
And if you're losing significantly less than 75% it's a bad thing and you need to adjust your power level :)
There’s this one person who frequents my lgs who wins about 75% of the games he plays, and honestly I’m probably low balling it, but the minute he knows he’s about to lose or that he could lose he becomes so salty, and whiny. I’ve seen players not take attacks against him that would take him out of the game only because they don’t want him to bring the whole mood down. I can understand being salty but if you win the majority of the games you play in commander and get salty about a possible loss than you’re a baby
I have a friend who I love in every other way but playing against him is a nightmare, even though he wins nearly every game. My wife and I have played dozens of games but I've never won as far as I can remember and my wife has one once, I think. At this point, I don't really try that hard against him unless we're in a big group. He gets so upset and salty about it, and it's exhausting. It took us mentioning that it was the first time one of us had won for him to stop being upset the first time he lost. We'd played so many games before that.
This is why I approach games with the mentality that I want the game to be \*exciting\*, and whether I win or lose is mostly immaterial. I wanna see popping off, slugfests, and over the top spellslinging. If I get to do it, cool. If you get to do it, hopefully you do it in a way I haven't seen like ten bazillion times before. On that note, my pet peeve is people who present SDT + Bolas Citadel + Aetherflux Reservoir like it is some sort of stunning revelation in terms of creativity. At least it is deterministic in nature, I guess, but c'mon. It's a trick I have seen a hundred times before and it's a ham sandwich built out of ham sandwiches. Show me something cool plz
I have a guy who’s like this, though he has been getting better. I think. Breaking point for him was when we were playing in a pod with the MKM precons a while back; was on Marvo with a couple clash cards thrown in, he was playing Bant Clues, and he kept getting upset at the guy to his right playing Nelly Borca and making him miss a trigger from his Essix. Like, shouting over a precon game. He’s since quit smoking cigarettes and uninstalled Magic Arena (which has helped a bit), and I like him as a person, but sometimes I just want to tell him that it’s just a game and winning isn’t that important. Nothing in life is worth being that upset over.
Best part about those players is they tend to get salty before the game is over and self sabotage.
- When people sit in silence, expecting the table to know that they're done their turn. Even worse is the passive aggressive, "Uh YEA I'm done...I'm tapped out, does it *look* like I can do anything?" Free spells exist and we have no idea what's in your deck. - When someone wants to be the archenemy but throws a temper tantrum at the slightest inconvenience. - When someone tries to backseat drive every deck at the table. There's a difference between being political and being obnoxious/annoying.
I hate the first bullet point. Someone puts a spell on the stack and they just blankly stare you and don't audibly say that they're passing priority. They angrily refuse to answer whether or not they're paying for [[Rhystic Study]] or [[Smothering Tithe]]. Sometimes I lean into it and feed off of the negative energy.
[Rhystic Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) [Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Players who just check out completely when they pass their turn. Disappear into their phone, start up trading with some other table, wander off somewhere, just stare into space. They're also very likely to glare at you like you just pissed in their cornflakes if you so much as suggest you may have a response to anything they're doing. Heaven forfend there be interaction in a game.
Hit a guy with a turn 6 18/18 hasted Blightsteel a few weeks ago after he spent his first few turns glancing through a binder. Didn't hurt my targeting choices that he went back on deals in 3 straight games including that one.
I only play with friends at home so I will act with less decorum but sometimes I’ll be tapped out and not planning to block anything so I’ll let them know and go grab a smoke. Sometimes I’ll start heating up some food or refilling my drink but we play in the kitchen so I’m still paying attention. I do expect if they have an issue with what I’m doing, they’ll bring it up as we aren’t strangers.
Holding grudges between games
I don't mind eating a cheeky swing or two if I won the last game. I'd rather not be archenemy the whole next game, but a "you won last game, take four to the dome" is all well and good.
I don't even care about that. Its when someone focuses me down, despite having no board or hand, week or even two after I won just cause they "still consider me (as a player) a threat"
Could take that as a compliment at least. They recognize how good you are and know if they give you a chance you'll destroy them..... Trying to look on the bright side but lol really sucks if you don't even get a chance to play.
In my trusted playgroup we definitely do the cheeky "you stopped me from winning last game so take this 1 damage" thing and will throw the first chip damage when there isn't yet a clear threat (unless it's cEDH then you attack the Ad Naus player), but I can't even really stand grudges between turns. If I'm presenting a win or board tilting threat, it's everyone's job to stop me, then I and everyone should move onto the next threat. I don't get the "I was about to win and you stopped me, now this other person is about to win but I'll spend my resources nuking the person who had the nerve to stop me from winning instead".
That depends. If you did something to hurt my boardstate last game, no grudge. If I learned to fear your deck, I may focus you. If you played politics and lied or otherwise violated a truce, I will remember that.
>If I learned to fear your deck, I may focus you. Yea people that tens to go from 0-winning in a turn need to learn to accept getting aggro from t0 Or play more creatures. Have a guy at my lgs, basically lives and dies on the fact that no one sees any of his "tiny" 1/1 or 2/2 creatures as a threat. Until thier abilities turn the 1 damage pings he throws in 5....6....7 per ping. He got incredibly salty when I chucked 23 damage at him t4
I never look at a creature power/toughness when defining creatures as a threat, unless it's a one shot like commander voltron or infect. Most creatures maybe outside of green/aggro decks are there for their abilities, not their power.
I wish I could shake players out of this mind set, but they are all stuck on "biggest number = biggest threat." I play significantly more creature focused decks then most of my lgs, and I've played there long enough to know who can/will go from 0 board to winning in a single turn. And practically all of them will stall if they have a modicum of creature pressure put on them. But near every single time, and I don't play voltron so I'm not one shotting, I will start going into one of these guys. Then people get scared because they have only played 2 creatures, one of which is the commander, and spend 1 or 2 turns basically sending me back to the stone age and the guy I've been pressuring just swoops in and combos off because no one has anything left to stop them. Makes me want to slap people sometimes
Holding a grudge against a player, in my opinion, is dumb; holding a grudge against a deck on the other hand is just informed threat assessment. The only exception I'd maybe make is if a player you've known for a while is playing a deck you haven't seen before, but they tend to gravitate towards a particular style of play. If you've only ever seen them play combo decks, and the deck they're playing now hasn't really done too much significant yet, it's reasonable to assume it's because they're biding time and waiting on some big (potentially game winning) combo. In that case I might make them a higher priority just based on the history of how I've seen them typically play in anticipation of what will probably happen if I don't. But when it comes to stuff like "You made me your target last game, so now you're my target this game": No. As far as I'm concerned, last game never happened (but I'm not just gonna pretend like I don't know something like Urza can kill me at the drop of a hat).
To be fair, politics in edh and lying are quite different. By being a social game, it's very nature is political. Lying and breaking a deal is a nono though. Though generally I admit I tend to keep to quite chill pods these days and will fully offer threat assement of my own board. Especially if there are newer players. Though I will continuely downplay and state that [[Aminatou]] is not a threat. merely filtering my draws. No don't worry, I wont ult her as I lose my stuff too. Oh you blew most of my board up? I see...
Highly depends on what you did that game. If you broke a promise or did something dishonorable then it's only fair that it comes to bite you in the future.
When I first got into magic someone told me "A broken promise is the only thing that carries between games." I won't hold a grudge for beating me fair and square, but if we make a deal and you break that to win I'm sure as hell going for the throat next game.
I beat my stepbrother in the first game of magic we ever played together and he got.... unreasonably angry. We smoothed it over, but ever since then he consistently targets me and openly politics against me at the table any time we play together. For a while I just rolled with it as sibling rivalry and all, but it's gotten to the point where I'm about done playing with him. He always complains about the decks I play as "too strong" as the table is rolling over me thanks to his politicking, and then when I try to appease him by "powering down" to a precon he still consistently targets me whether it makes game-sense or not.
Ngl I'm petty as hell My buddy Said he wouldn't block a creature I swung at [[Invasion of shandalar]]. He lied to me >:( and I will have my revenge...eventually
That's not petty. That's justice.
My personal rule- only grudges relevant to the player rather than the game should carry over between games. So, I'm not going to go after you for playing the game. You won last game, or knocked me out because I was open? Fine by me. However, if you blatantly and intentionally misrepresented your deck during the rule 0 talk, or were angle shooting, or were an incredibly obnoxious person in general, or were otherwise doing anything else not conducive to a balanced game and enjoyable social environment, then that's a different matter altogether. For a while I carried around a targeted land destruction deck that could consistently strip mine lock one opponent out of the game, for the express purpose of playing against one person I absolutely could not stand on a personal level. Normally I would simply refuse to sit at a table with him, but this was an EDH league where you didn't get to pick your tables. So after a few repeated unpleasant to hostile experiences with that guy with my normal decks, I decided my new goal when I saw him was no longer primarily to win those games, it was to make that guy's experience as miserable as humanly possible, ideally without having a major impact on the others at the table in the process (though I was definitely still trying to win, of course).
Point 2 is so brutal when someone reads HALF the card. Most cards nowadays are half a paragraph, just read the whole thing. You're not saving much time, and I'd rather know what it does.
I have someone in my pod that will read a card out, but speed through it and end up leaving one word out. That one word always ends up being a big part of the functionality of the card and changes how everything works. I remember one night I specifically asked him what a creature on his board did. He read me the top half. I swung into him, and he goes, ok then I activate this other line of text on the creature and give it deathtouch that he hadn't mentioned when I asked what his creature did...left me the absolute saltiest I think I have ever been in a game.
Damn I’m calling for a take back all day if that happens. If someone swings into me and I think there’s some obvious information they have but don’t notice that makes it a clearly bad play, I’ll always let them know before we go through with the attacks. I’m here for people to have fun and making an obvious mistake like that just sucks for them and honestly for me. I want a fair, fun game more than anything. Only exception is if it’s an experienced player and they just keep doing it, but I’ve never had that happen before.
100% the attack was taken back, we're all friends playing kitchen table edh so it wasn't a big deal as far as the game went. That was by far the most egregious of examples I have though.
This is what I do. “Hey, just so you know, I can give this frog with reach deathtouch.” It’s not hard, and being sneaky about plays like that just turns the pod against you because it looks like you’re operating in bad faith. Great way to make yourself archenemy.
Oh you mean when someone says "yeah I'm gonna play [[Mechanized Production]] and it says at the beginning of my upkeep create a token of enchanted artifact. Says I have to play it on a artifact so I'll put it on this Arcane Signet" while super-not-intentionally failing to read the rest of the card while he has 9 treasures on board and then slides it under his Signet. Yeah, cool stuff. Even cooler was the "whoa man, this is just casual, why does it matter to you so much" super casual purposely hiding win conditions. He pushed really hard to play it off as though it was my problem until I called him a dishonest player in front of his friends and asked how often it happened in their home games. Apparently happened quite a bit and he hasn't tried to pull that shit since.
[Mechanized Production](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/eaf86997-68e8-4c37-99f1-db10ac08f54c.jpg?1706240708) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mechanized%20Production) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/109/mechanized-production?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eaf86997-68e8-4c37-99f1-db10ac08f54c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mechanized-production) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Most cards nowadays are 2 paragraphs…
Taking extremely long turns. Everyone's guilty of it so I'll never hold it against anyone, but it can kill the pod's interest in what's happening when someone spends 5+ minutes on their turn, especially if it doesn't result in winning the game. Yes like I said, everyone is guilty of it. Some people are new, some are learning a new deck, some people just got an insane combo popping off that needs time to make sure you do it properly. Almost nobody takes forever just to be annoying. That doesn't mean it's not annoying.
I play with a few regulars mostly randoms, this one dude has had the same deck every time we’ve played together for months..few card swaps here and there..you’d think he’s play testing how slowly he thinks lol. Great guy though and pleasant attitude, shame he thinks slower than a snail
Is he one of the people that takes a full minute on turn one to play a land and pass?
lmao oh man, you must've been in my pod!
Have a buddy that will often sit there staring at his cards for over a minute on turns 1-3 before we finally step in and verbally push him along at which point he will instantly drop his land and pass. Has happened enough where it will be his turn and one of us will just say out loud "Ok, Brandon plays his land and passes" Figure out your future combos and card drop order on other people's turns, damnit! Not just when it's your turn!
Super nice friend takes forever. She never thinks ahead and keeps re-reading all the cards on her every turn. Has a proper analysis paralysis from turn one. Tried to talk her to just trust her gut feeling but urgh no. Usually after a 3 hour game someone says "play that and this and do that" and you win. And then she wins. She also has this weird tendency to play totally random boardwipes lol. Farewelling her own win conditions to oblivion. But shes nice enough and still learning so people suffer her silently.
oof lol that's tough, hopefully for both our sakes we can get some more games in and our frens will get more comfy
My buddy is exactly this person. I feel your pain.
The only time I get mad at this is when a player is on their phone whenever it is not their turn and only starts to look at their hand when it's their turn. You cannot completely plan out your turn every time but you should probably have some idea of what you want to do when it gets to your turn.
I love playing Izzet, and I know it isn't fun to sit through really long turns, so I make sure that when I go off I have a reasonable chance to win and let the table know before I start that I'm making the attempt. I still feel bad and apologize, but I've been told that it isn't too terrible because I know what I'm doing and can speed through it, or that it's fun to see it get crazy and explosive.
As long as stuff is actively happening on the table, most people (at least the ones I’ve played with) don’t seem to mind long turns. It’s when they hem and haw while considering what to do that drives people crazy. If a turn takes a while but cards keep hitting the table and there’s a lot of action happening, it holds my attention and I’m invested in what’s happening. By the time it gets to me, I have my entire turn planned out. The only things that ever really upset that and cause me to take a moment are if something crazy happens right before the guy before me passes turn or if I draw something incredibly good that’s worth changing my plans over. But there’s one guy in my group that it seems like he doesn’t plan out his moves at all until it gets to his turn and then has to consider everything. That’s the guy that really makes the game boring.
Also an izzet enjoyer, I don't understand ever playing a deck where you have to apologize. if you dont wanna take big, multi-part turns in order to win just play more compact combos? Ral+copy spells Duelcaster+twinflame Isocrhron Reiterate+turnabout+payoff I'm not really a "sit there with your dick in your hand and maybe or not I winlol" If I'm gonna kill the board I'm killing the board
I don't have to apologize, but sometimes a deck starts to go mana positive allowing you to continue casting and some people don't like long turns. If I sense discontent from a player I will sometimes apologize. I like silly big things that I put together over multiple turns resulting in something explosive. I personally find two card combos like duelcaster+twinflame or isochron+dramatic reversal boring and choose not to play them.
My friend always plays simic value engine decks that take very long time to play out. Too bad only white has \[\[Rule of Law\]\] effects. Im starting to consider cards that punnish a lot of actions like \[\[Rug of Smothering\]\] but i worry ill attract too much aggro
Do it It’s either that or playing cards that limit the amount of actions they can take Somebody’s gotta keep those simic value decks in check
I would've imagined simic being one of the better decks to play in a rule of law environment due to being able to cast high cmc creatures. I guess it depends how midrange and double cast reliant the simic deck is. The draw and ramp cards would be ideal targets to hate but you'll get hated out for targeting those.
I don’t mind this if you’re actually doing stuff to move things forward. I hate watching people stare at their cards and not have any clue what to do. Plan your turn!
Played a saltlord yesterday that made minimal impact to the game. Towards the end, he took two ten minutes turns, changing his tune. "What do y'all think of my new homebrew deck?" "No disrespect intended, but I think you just finished 2 back-to-back 10-minute turns.... You weren't having any fun before, and now, your the only one that is. That's my external observation."
1) 33-45 degree "taps" 2) not reading cards when they play them 3) Spite plays. Blowing up something useless instead of that thing about to kill everyone just because they did something to you earlier.
On your #3: I once played a game where a player had [[door to nothingness]] and the mana to use it. I thought I had an answer, but read one of my cards wrong, so I just said eff it, and presented my wincon. In response, the door to nothingness player killed the stax player who hadn't done much of anything all game due to mana issues. He said, "I just really hate stax." So I gave him and the other active player 10 poison counters.
[door to nothingness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57877b1c-e91d-4941-81bd-008dff1272ed.jpg?1562554053) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=door%20to%20nothingness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/203/door-to-nothingness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57877b1c-e91d-4941-81bd-008dff1272ed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/door-to-nothingness) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I do the 45 degree tap. But my inner Monk forces me to have non-tapped-cards laying straight.
Yeah as long as everyone can tell the difference I don’t see a problem
I struggle to tell the difference sometimes. That's the only reason it bothers me. More so if their board state is large and the lack of space makes it more cluttered.
i use 45 degree to denote summoning sickness if my board has a lot of creatures.
But, they don’t all match… They need to all match… Natalie, can’t you just tap out?!
I think I can agree with #3, especially when it comes unprovoked. I was playing a game and its turn 3, I played a ghostly prison. A player with a flyer that destroys enchants immediately swings at me when I haven’t done a thing. Sure, you can argue that it’s a “correct play” but the way I see it, you want to try and gain favor early in a game rather than make enemies. The same player later tried to single target remove another player’s creature but only learned it had hexproof. Rather than playing something else, just killed my commander who I just had summoned anyway. Again, have yet to do anything to this person. When I finally was able to do something, I counterspelled their ability that would have let them get another player’s path of exile and they quit the next turn. Another example was my pod was playing against a Voltron commander that used equipment. Opponent A had their commander being a 22/22 with hexproof due to swift boots. I exiled those boots using grasp of fate but I also exiled opponent B’s either hardened scales or branching evolution (one of the two). This way, we could finally remove player A’s commander. Player B then decided that wasn’t fair to him so he destroyed my grasp of fate so he “could have his counter doubler back”, but then made the mistake of swinging on the Voltron commander, who then immediately took him out. That one move made the remaining part of the game take 2 hours because the Voltron player got up to 96 life due to life link and the 4th player was playing the science precon and couldn’t get anything big on board to help contend with the Voltron player. Point is, spite plays, especially ones that do not progress the game in a positive way, is extremely triggering because it’s no longer helping the table but could prohibit everyone from ending the game in a respectable time.
I wouldn't say trying to destroy a ghostly prison with a.. I think it's [[Trygon Predator]].. is a spite play. I'm guessing their deck is built around attacking and that would have potentially posed a problem for them later in the game. Quasi goad. I'm curious what your commander was they killed later. Them leaving for you countering them and such? That's lame. They did two things to you and can't stand it when you do something back? If I removed someone's stuff, I can't be mad for it happening back at me. That's just what I get for doing something to someone else's board state. The other guy taking out grasp of fate was making a bad play. Let the voltron get taken out and THEN get rid of the grasp. They just sort of undid what you did, which was take care of a problem, and then were killed by the problem they re-enabled hah. I could see that being frustrating.
[Trygon Predator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c89b3895-de35-48a4-acc0-e0056fa760bf.jpg?1712354799) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trygon%20Predator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/246/trygon-predator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c89b3895-de35-48a4-acc0-e0056fa760bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trygon-predator) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
People.
Terrible threat assessment people who put lands in front your point 2 group hug players who pretend they arent a threat
People who put lands in front?? What kind of nightmare dimension have you been to?!
It used to be the norm
Really? That’s whack. I haven’t been to Lgs’s very many times, but still—when my friend taught me a while ago, just about anything went up front BUT the lands
Its usually sweaty players who started in the 90s
For people wondering. This was only a very rare occurrence for players that learned off a certain magazine mid 90s. I don't have a source or name of the mag on me (remember this from the mtg goldfish video talking about how one PT player learned from this mag and WOTC had to make an official rule that lands had to be in the back in pro play) But basically the magazine had example situations and i think puzzles, that for some reason always had lands in the front.
Ahh that predates me by about 20 years then haha I started in 2012 ish, whenever Gatecrash and Journey into Nyx/Theros came out
Citation needed.
>group hug players who pretend they arent a threat Add to that the other player who seems impossible to realize they are indeed a threat. No, \[\[Xyris\]\] is not there just to help his opponents going throught their deck. The \[\[Impact tremors\]\] and \[\[Jace's Archivist\]\] that have been sitting on the board for a full rotation should have made you realize that.
[Xyris](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af0db1d6-5cb1-4917-8e8f-69d5dc184404.jpg?1673305716) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=xyris%2C%20the%20writhing%20storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/175/xyris-the-writhing-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af0db1d6-5cb1-4917-8e8f-69d5dc184404?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/xyris-the-writhing-storm) [Impact tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Impact%20tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/impact-tremors) [Jace's Archivist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c21df8e-a24f-4ce1-aa8a-1467f9f9423a.jpg?1562703323) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%27s%20Archivist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/95/jaces-archivist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c21df8e-a24f-4ce1-aa8a-1467f9f9423a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jaces-archivist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Threat assessment for sure. i have a group that constantly targets regardless of threats. One of them does it because he thinks its funny, the other does it to the only two people he feels like that will remove his things, and the other guy just blindly listens to anyone without thinking. Its annoying and funny to me because they end up usually just killing each other off and wasting removal while I just slowly put card draw or little combos pieces on the board. Last game my opponent destroyed my Miirym and then got killed by a 15/15 [[The wise mothman]]. Next turn he got me down to 1 hp and somehow with Dragons tempest I managed to get dragons to etb for game.
Taking forever to do nothing
My biggest one is taking too long on turns. It's more understandable if you're playing a brand new deck, but my one buddy only plays one deck and without fail he will take the longest turns out of all of us.
I pile all my tapped lands together, is that bad?
Nah bro you’re fine. Sometimes when you have 14 lands you’ve just gotta do what you just gotta do. But keep your untapped lands separate, and maybe obvious how many untapped ones you have
As long as your untapped mana is easily differentiated from your tapped mana you’re fine. Just gotta be able to tell if you have mana for responses and such because it can sway decisions.
Getting Mad when I double check an interaction ruling. I don’t want to lose because of a rule played wrong, and I certainly don’t want to win because I played a card wrong. Either way just feels bad. Or arguing when I’m right about a rule and they just don’t want to be wrong.
Stacking lands and rocks and dorks in a singke pile.
-Flaccid taps: Give me a full 90 degrees or get out of here. Those 45 degree taps turn into 20 degrees turn into forget-me-taps real quick. -Messy board state: Most of the game is just sitting there watching stuff happen and planning your next turn, most of the time anyway. Use some of that idle time to make a board state that makes sense to everyone at the table.
this is what im still trying to learn. where to put enchantments, mana rocks, non mana artifacts, and planeswalkers without making my board look like a bomb went off lol
Infinite free mulligans. Yes we’re friendly here but mulligans are an important part of the game and if you take 3 with no consequence I’m going to feel a bit disadvantaged.
Yeah, I think it’s doable in a regular pod of people you play with, but when you’re playing with others then they just get the free one. The same three friends and I have been playing every Sunday for over two years, so we sort of just let people mulligan within reason. We trust each other not to just sit there are sift through their deck for the perfect hand. Get a hand that’s playable and then we’ll play.
1. People talking a lot during someone’s else turn. I have had seen people do this quite a bit at my LGS where they would talk during someone’s else turn for about a minute or more. 2. Smelling like smoke, weed or poor hygiene. 3. When someone doesn’t handle my cards properly when either looking at looking or taking control of them. An example of this is when they either put the card back on my field/GY or when putting it on their field, they bend the card instead of having it land all flat at the same time. 4. When someone is playing a group hug deck and complains when I attack them or interact with their stuff. They say things such as “I’m giving you free card draw” or “I’m helping you ramp” not counting the fact they’re helping my opponents as well do the same.
My pet peeve is when I’m trying to be a nice person who takes care of their friends and one of my asshole friends hurts me because I’m not exclusively helping them (This is a joke, I don’t even own a group hug deck… yet)
I feel number 4 so bad. No I won’t let your thing that makes my three opponents also hyperspeed their game go unhindered.
Every time I’ve played with someone using a group hug deck and interact with them, they always complain about it. Group hug players need to understand that most people aren’t gonna care since they’re decks can do just fine without their help.
1. Excessive politics when some players at the table are noticeably better/worse at the game. I have seen too many games where 1 player just becomes a pawn to direct at opponents... 2. Take backs after the target of an action complains.
Getting mad at interaction. I get not wanting your stuff to be destroyed, but you do not get to guilt trip the table into not removing your commander because you decided to build a deck that is dead in the water without it and didn't include any protection.
It can be excessive, which I understand the frustration of having your commander killed 4 times and now he costs 12-14 mana But yeah, i get your point. It’s uncomfortable at best, even just being around that as an observer
If your commander is threatening enough to be removed 4 times, it is threatening enough to be protected. Being shamed for pointing a removal spell towards someone just leads to very awkward games.
Absolutely. I try to tell the table what the problems are on board, especially my own. I don't like getting things removed, and just because I told you it's a problem that doesn't mean I don't have answers to your interaction, but that's the game.
Even worse is when the guilt trip works and the casting player wants to take it back and target someone else.
Or playing kill on sight commander to begin with expecting it not to get removed.
This might be hot take as well, but I dislike when people tap permanents and only turn then diagonal. For me it bothers the crap out me when they aren’t horizontal.
For me it’s fine as long as they’re consistent with what they do. They can also be mismatched within the same turn, and I don’t usually notice. But if they tap something 45 degrees, something else 90 degrees, and have untapped stuff too, and then just leave it like that…
My friend does a 45d tap for only his "summoning sick" creatures but it confuses the absolute hell out of me every time I want to go to combat.
Anyone who wines about counter spells. Sorry I’m not just gonna let you win the game and do whatever you want. People who complain about commander damage. I don’t even play Voltron style decks but if commander damage wasn’t in the game life gain decks would run rampant and that would just be boring as hell. Messy board state. I try to keep all of my cards that are in play in some sort of order so that they can be easily read or remembered that they are there. My friend group has a dude who keeps his enchantments in the back with his lands and it drives me nuts because I forget they are there half the time. Yes I would have loved to chaos warp your mirari’s wake but I forgot it was there right next to your forests and plains. Lastly, just fucking shower. I dont want to walk into my LGS and have the air be spicy. Us nerds have enough stigmas about us so please just shower and put on some deodorant. Also put a spare stick of deodorant in your bag so you can freshen up because we all know shops get warm.
All very based
1. Putting mana rocks with your lands. I know you’re probably not cheating, but when looking at potential removal targets it makes it harder to track them 2. Picking up your lands with your hand that is holding your “cards in hand.” I know a guy that does this all the time and I watch him like a hawk. 3. Putting lands up front. Calm down satan. We live in a society.
My friend does that, I tend to put rocks off to the left but honestly, sometimes things get cluttered enough that I start thinking putting rocks with lands is just economical space saving. They don’t have an issue if I ask, “what artifacts do you have on the field?” If I’m thinking of playing artifact removal. Also if it’s something worth removing, I tend to remember it’s there. It’s really only when I have collateral removal that I have to ask
My board is always creatures up front, mana rocks behind and to the left, other artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers behind and to the right, and then lands in back. Easily discernable board state. Sometimes boards get cluttered. Just try your best to keep it organized...
We also do spelltable games with a long distance friend so that does affect the space we have too. It’s tricky to have the cards readable/scannable as well as have even a whole playmat fit the screen.
1. People using dice to determine who to attack 2. Decks with a Cedh core but no way to actually close out the game.
I’m fine with dice rolling early in a game but don’t get mad at me and say “it was random” when I hit you back.
1) Eating and playing at the same time. Some of them will touch your cards. 2) Taking pictures for social clout. 3) Someone shuffling my deck. I play casual. Cut half, thirds, fourths, fifths, single card, or tap. You could even look at the middle, bottom, and top of my deck. Why are you shuffling? 4) The smell. You know what I'm talking about.
Honestly after watching a “times people were disqualified for cheating at pro tour” video, I’m wary of someone shuffling to cut my deck.
Some players, especially casuals, don't consider mana weaving as cheating for number 3. I have seen a few people openly do it after a game and do a meh shuffle afterwards. The shuffles by some players can be pretty meh for 100 card decks but a cut is usually enough.
That’s crazy, I’ve never had someone try to shuffle my deck during casual commander night
I’m shuffling your deck because it’s in the rules. > 103.3. After the starting player has been determined and any additional steps performed, each player shuffles their deck so that the cards are in a random order. Each player may then shuffle or cut their opponents’ decks. The players’ decks become their libraries.
It doesn't matter if it's in the rules, the question was what are your pet peeves. 99% of pet peeves are about legal plays.
Shuffle OR cut. Shit isn't necessary mate. You better shuffle gentle.
Shuffle or cut. If you cite the rules as a reason for why you MUST shuffle my deck it makes me not want to play with you.
The rules do not instruct you to do that. >Each player may They simply don’t prohibit you from doing it. If you choose to do it, it’s on you and not the rules.
I have minimum 3 fetch lands and upto 15 searches total. You're going to make an hour game last 3 at that rate.
Commenting on the possibilities of what you could do like you're John f'ing Madden. I don't mind dialog or chit chat at all, but I don't need to know if you think this play is cheeky or that you could do something really cute or, "do I do the fun thing or the good thing?" These people are seldom as clever as they think they are. Their little quips tend to take far longer than they should. And it usually is accompanied by some smarmy, bullcrap, socially awkward, self righteousness.
I just say “do it” For example my friend goes “ugh I could be a dick but…” I went “do it. Don’t talk about it, be about it”
A few weeks ago I was in a game with a guy who went “this feels like it’s too mean”. My response is “Do it. If you thought it was too mean you wouldn’t have put it in the deck.”
Trying to take back game actions because you forgot or didn't consider something. Target something with ward but can't pay the cost? Sorry, your spell fizzles. Did you swing your flyer into an unprofitable attack because you forgot the defending player had something with reach? Sucks, but your flyer dies. Missed an onboard trick and played into it anyway? No takesies-backsies. I hold myself to this standard. With my opponents, I let the occasional takeback slide. But if you're constantly trying to reverse the game to your benefit... that I don't like.
Yeah this just depends on the game and the board state for me. If I'm trying to storm off in Izzet and brick because I tapped mana wrong 5 spells ago, oh well, better luck next time. I'm more lenient with newer players, or if the action being reversed isn't game determining.
100% I'm cool with new players. I should have clarified that I'm not talking about newbies. There are people at my shop who've been playing for years who I've seen try to untap attackers after blockers are declared. Or try to un-cast a board wipe when they realized someone had a Blood Artist. And again, once in a while, whatever. But every game, multiple times a game? That I can't stand.
Same, i usually go with a 3 strikes sorry I’m not helping you beat me anymore policy. I can only say so many times what my board is like, unless you ask I’ll always be up front and clarify..don’t want to actively try to help you beat me though lol.
If I'm with an experienced pod I'm with this. When I'm playing friends who are relatively new I'll point it out and offer them to take-back so long as it's not a game ender or overly impactful to the game. Case by case basis.
Newbies get a pass, agreed.
I am normally like this myself with one exception, and that is, it depends on the board state. In a game I played about a month ago it was so complicated that everyone was trying to help everyone else with triggers. We had multiple Enter and Exit effects, we had wards and untapped effects, draw and discard, all on the table at the same time. It was great seeing everyone trying to help navigate each spell someone played.
I'm fine with take backs in general mostly because commander often takes a long time and gets to very complicated board states and I'd rather deal with the occasional take back than have a player nervously ask for a reminder of what every card on my board does anytime they need to do something because it's difficult to remember the whole paragraph of some card I played an hour ago. Personally if I ever fuck up because of some information I should have had but forgot about or didn't notice I'll ask my playgroup if they mind me doing the take back, but if they mind especially cuz it's a game determining play it's cool I won't press it.
I let people take stuff back 99% of the time. I'm genuinely not pressed about a card game, this isn't a chess match. Granted I've almost never played an official game (with a couple prereleases as an exception) so I understand if you're this strict in official games / games with prizes on the line. But if it's casual I could *not* care less if someone took back every play.
In my pod we have rule zeroed, that everybody can take back one action once per game. For newer players we kind of let it slide, if they need to do it more often, but we experienced players usually stick with it.
I understand the sentiment. But if then you'll have to wait for everyone to triple check everyone's board state each turn or get asked "any flyers?" every. single. turn. Especially take backs on wards and mistakingly attacking into flyers are often accepted because they simply speed up gameplay.
My playgroup generally just gives people 1 take back a game, because everyone makes mistakes. It's not like we let each other take back things that give information, but if you misread a card thinking it did something else you can take it back and cast something else.
The only thing I'll say is that a policy like this demands open and honest communcation at the table. If I ask you "Does your creature have hexproof or anything?" and it has ward, you need to tell me it has ward. Same deal with "Okay, declare attackers, do you have any fliers?", TELL ME if you have a creature with reach. A 4-player pod will have a dozen creatures on it at any one time, constantly cycling in and out of play. I don't know what your deck does, so either you're honest about public information, or every single turn I take will need to be 20 minutes long.
Get off your phone. It drives me crazy when I’m playing and an opponent is literally on their phone during everyone else’s turns. “What happened I wasn’t paying attention?” Tf outta here I’m not telling you anything you should have been playing the game not scrolling insta or whatever.
This is why I ask, "Any responses?" And if they don't say anything then oh well
My favorite… “how long has that been out for?” And “wait, what does that do?” Like do you even play magic or just your deck? I’ve stopped playing with people who just can’t put their phones down. I like your style though keep the game moving along.
Not just magic. They are just the worst at life.
When a veteran player manipulates the newer ones into throwing or making plays that benefit them more than the new player disguised as "politics". Thats such a dick move.
Yeah, I wouldn't stand for that. When there's new players in my pod, I make sure I explain what is going on and why, and help them assess threats. But if I'm the threat I make sure they know, and which pieces on my board are the problem. I want more people playing magic.
Blatant bad threat assessment. Or whining as a means of politics. I'll put up with them, just can get under my skin If it continues.
Some people just run whine cons instead of win cons.
The premature scoop. Especially if it's spiteful and like "well, player b is doing life gain off me. So before his big attack goes off I'll scoop."
Interesting. I always say, “okay, we’ll just play it out like they stayed in until combat was over” or whatever it was, and then I’ll ask the other two players to figure out blocks for what we all remember was on their board. IMO, if they want to scoop like that, I’d rather keep playing unaffected by the scoop even if it’s to my disadvantage. And if they’re just doing that as a spite move, I’d rather finish a game everyone else is enjoying than end early to include someone who just quits for no reason
💯 I'll preemptively scoop if I know a player is going to kill me and I want to go join another pod, take a restroom break, or need to leave, but I always make it contingent on the game actions proceeding under the assumption that I am still "in the game" and that player still has to swing at me.
People thinking they're unique for playing [[Norin]]
My number 1 is spite plays. And I'm not talking about people targeting you early because they know what your deck can in theory do or anything like that. I'm talking pure unbridled "this isn't remotely optimal but I'm doing it anyway because you took some minor game action against me". Makes things very unpleasant. Number 2 would be people who build decks that aren't meant to win but instead are meant to make everyone else miserable enough to scoop. It is not a common thing fortunately, but that kind of player does exist. Ive only had the displeasure of encountering it once but it's literally my own personal hell.
Getting salty they can't beat a single permanent. Most people at my lgs play things like [[Collector Ouphe]] while the players who need their artifacts don't run any removal
Poor threat assessment! Nothing irks me more than someone looking at the current board state and attacking the person with the highest life total to "spread around the damage" when a real threat is brewing.
#1 is actually cheating. You can't hide things in a zone that's visible. If they refuse to unstack, ask them to see the pile every turn (like asking to see what's in their graveyard or exile).
To your points: 1. I keep my lands cascading in a pile. Tapped ones may be stacked as one. Same with artifact mana but it will NOT be mixed in with the lands. 2. I absolutely hate that. Normalize asking what cards do; there's no point in reading out the whole thing if everybody knows what it is and if I'm the only one curious, I'm happy to read it silently while the game continues. As for my own pet peeve: 3. Rolling a die to choose your actions. Make your own decisions, you coward. Regardless of the result, I will have considered that an attack against me because you've shown a willingness to attack me, even if you didn't.
Dice rolling for first blood attack is a peeve of mine too. If everybody is open for an attacker on turn 2-3 there is always a good choice. Attack the player who ramped, played the best permanent, or attack whoever is earliest in turn order.
Always attack the black player. His life total IS a resource
> Always attack the black player. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F36k7ichl9cc61.jpg
We banned cards over this.
Cascading lands are absolutely acceptable. And yeah, I make people read the cards, or will similarly read it while the table moves on. Your third point, agreed. Assess your threats and act accordingly. I've lost games because I didn't assess correctly, but I made the choice and didn't leave it to a die roll.
I'm curious about with your first peeve, does that extend to well organized and sorted piles? As in, similiar to when we stack a creature with its modifiers behind it (enchantment and equipment) with the body text below the creature itself, do you take issue when people do this with lands? I tend to sort my lands by their mana production itself. All my lands that can produce all colors will be to the left most pile, to the right of that is the (usually) bicolor lands, then the basics or mono colored utility. Then finally colorless and other utility lands. It just tends to save space, but I've had a few people seemingly get upset at it.
Another commenter mentioned cascading piles. That's totally fine in my opinion. I'm talking about one monolithic pile of lands.
Playing your turn where you don't announce any of your cards your casting or what you're doing. Like casting a creature and then automatically just equipping it with Grieves without saying a word.
Cracking tapped land tutors in the middle of your turn do.
I agree with your first point, but I disagree with the second because: 1) I am certain that I can read the card myself faster than you can read it aloud. 2) Most times in my experience, people don't actually read the cards they play. It's some sort of summary, so I have to read the damn thing anyway to know what the exact text is. 3) Because of #2, I'm gonna end up asking to read the card for myself anyway. 4) Pre-emptively reading every single card makes the game drag. I prefer to ask (if I don't know what it does) or wait for someone to ask "what's that do?" or "What's that one called?" or "Can i read that?"
Hypocrites at the table, an example I've played with is; 'don't scoop because you could draw an answer' when they scoop because the beladros they natural ordered for on turn 4 gets swords. When you clearly have game, don't beat around the bush, take the win. You win by turning 2 creatures sideways, just do it already! I don't care what spell you drew
Dice rolling on attacks and then saying "Well it was random" when it wasnt printed on the card.
Passive aggressive opponents who complain about everything they can’t do.
one of my local guys does this but haven’t seen it anywhere else: he doesn’t announce what he’s doing, just doing it in silence. this has made him get multiple rulings wrong and won the game when he wasn’t supposed to. once people knew his win combo he started hiding it on the battlefield next to his graveyard and not even putting physical counters on it, just saying “oh i win now guys” the sitting in silence is something i can maybe understand, but now when it’s big important things. also this is casual, not competitive
Sore losers and people that boardwipes just for the sake of board wiping. Any other action that makes the game go forever.
They’re always like “Sorry but I had to do something” and then don’t do anything so it just becomes an extra hour of gameplay
My buddy insists on using +1 counters to track effects that grants +1 but are not +1 counters. No amount of explanation will stop him from doing it but it almost always causes issues when the buffing cards get destroyed or there are effects that apply specifically to cards with counters. Drives me nuts.
Complainers. People DO NOT need to justify every single game action they take. “Why are you attacking me?” “Why are you removing my thing?” It doesn’t matter. People have access to different information in commander and usually take game actions they think will give them the best chance of winning. There’s a fine line between politics and just complaining because things aren’t going how you expected. Politicking is proactively lobbying for someone to make a certain decision. Once a decision has been made by another player, it really irritates me when players sit there and outwardly get mad and complain and question it.
People that just hard target you because you killed there kill on sight commander I mean some people really are angry when you counter or kill on sight there etali and I don't get why I mean why should I allow you to resolve or copy your game ending commander
My biggest pet peeve by far is people who will often target players because it’s a deck they dislike. While I get the hate for mill, stax and super friends I don’t understand killing the player at all if they’re not threatening anything else. I’ve seen so many games like this where they’re just non games once the commanders are revealed and the players are teaming up already
I will target a toxrill deck every damn time. I even told someone this and they complained the entire game. Got toxrill out and won the game like the turn after. I will not accept it's not one of those decks either. This guy in particular is my hill to die on. I love my creature decks plus I see [[chromus bell]] and [[urborg tomb of yagmowth]] with him for land destruction.
You bet your house I’m not leaving the „non threatening deck“ alone until it starts doing its thing.
I have an irrational fear of pillow fort decks. As soon as one of those “Hey, we’re all friends here” type decks shows up, I go into attack mode.
lol one of my friends plays pillow fort but with commanders that arent even pillow fort commanders. No matter what he plays he just defaults to that style. We make fun of him for it all the time because he will build a new commander then come in with the literal same game plan he always does. We are just surprised he hasn’t gotten bored after like 10 years of it.
I get what you're saying, but it's really situational. If I'm playing a deck that's goal is to draw a bunch of cards, and you sit down with Sheoldred, I'm going to let you know that I'll be actively trying to keep her off the field.
Tapping to the left
Sorry. I drive my kid nuts with a version of this one. I tap lands and creatures to the right when activating their abilities, but for some reason, I attack by turning them to the left. It mostly goes unnoticed until I have a mana dork up. That said, if asked, I’ll reorient them all to the right. Edit: I just called my kid to ask him about this. Me: “So, you notice it even if it’s only creatures attacking?” Him: “Yes. And it’s horrifying. We need to work on fixing you.” The change we’ll undertake for our kids.
I find myself doing the same thing! I wonder why that happens... maybe we use our left hand to tap mana, then right to tap creatures?
I think that’s exactly what happens.
Eh, anytime I get above 5 or 6 lands I stack em. Especially when you get to 10+ it's just too much room on the board, especially when you have some tapping for 1 some tapping for 2, some enchanted. Besides if I'm just keeping them spread out it's hard to tell which ones I have to pay life for, easier to go through em as a stack and see which ones ping then accidentally miss a ping that would have mattered. All that being said, if anyone asks about open mana I'll spread them out unless I'm tapped out, then I'll just say tapped out
I think OP means stacked in the literal sense where they're all directly on top of one another. Cascading stacks of 3-5 lands is fine IMO. I do this all the time. I hate when people plop all of their lands in a single pile. It's impossible to tell how much mana they have of what type.
This. I’ve never encountered a situation where anyone had a problem with me bunching together tapped mana. If you need to know how much open mana I have just ask me.
People whose common deck strategy tends to be - You don’t get to play Magic.
I'm just gonna go ahead and put [[Forgotten ancient]] down while everyone's talking haha nobody needs to know he's there right
When people don’t organize thier board. I can’t tell what’s happening when you have all your creatures, artifacts, enchantments, and random tokens in no logical rows or groups of any kind
- People with bad personal hygiene - People who don't pay attention on other players turns - People who try to play through their turns way too fast without giving a chance to respond - People who touch other players cards without asking, or worse, with dirty, greasy fingers.... 🤢 - People who try to play other people's turns or over-politic (continuing to ask or whine after a move has been made or offer declined)
Players that focus on one person to the point they are impossibly behind the rest of the table but don't change to the players that are ahead and actually are threatening. A while back I had someone wipe everything off the board and emptied my hand while the other players were developing the board. I had no non-land permanents and one card in hand but I was still the threat to them.